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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anning and Samantha and welcome to stuff

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Speaker 1: I'll never told to your production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: So today's episode I'm very excited to present to you,

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Speaker 1: and it's actually, um it was a listener that got

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Speaker 1: in touch with us and facilitated this whole thing. And

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Speaker 1: we'll get more into that and in a second, but

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Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about sex and gender based

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Speaker 1: violence or s g b V in the Democratic Republic

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Speaker 1: of Congo or the d r C and trigger warning

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Speaker 1: for a discussion of sex and gender based violence, sexual

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Speaker 1: assault and suicidality. And um, this one is so valuable

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Speaker 1: and worth listening to. But though the topics that we

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Speaker 1: discuss with our guest in this one are are very

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Speaker 1: intent um right, So just keep in mind your mental

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Speaker 1: health when choosing to listen or not listen. Are what time?

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Speaker 1: Because you know, sometimes you're just something a good place

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Speaker 1: right now, which you might be later. I just want

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Speaker 1: to put that out there, and just to put it

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Speaker 1: out there, I guess are really optimistic, yes, in such

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Speaker 1: dire circumstances, it seems, and they had put a lot

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Speaker 1: of positivity in what they're talking about as well, So

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Speaker 1: it is it is heavy, but at the same time

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Speaker 1: it is still hopeful. Yes, absolutely, and it is not

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Speaker 1: all bad at all, and so okay. This was a

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Speaker 1: suggestion from a listener named Rebecca who volunteers with the

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Speaker 1: nonprofit organization Global Outreach Doctors, and she said, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to use her words now. This organization quote deploys volunteer

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Speaker 1: medical doctors and nurses, at mental health professionals and midwives

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Speaker 1: and integrative health professionals like trauma trained acupuncturists to high need,

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Speaker 1: low resource global regions affected by natural disasters, refugee crises,

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Speaker 1: war zones, and famine, such as the Democratic Republic of Congo, Kenya, Ethiopia, Bangladesh, Iraq, Nepal, Lesbos,

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Speaker 1: and Assyrian border. She went on, the organization just completed

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Speaker 1: an assessment mission dealing with a gender based violence in

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Speaker 1: the Democratic Republic of Congo. The d r C has

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Speaker 1: been labeled by several organizations, including the UN as quote

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Speaker 1: one of the worst places in the world to be

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Speaker 1: a woman. During focus groups. In the assessment of current

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Speaker 1: medical capabilities in the eastern part of the country, the

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Speaker 1: go docs assessment team found that mental health care for

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Speaker 1: victims of sexual and gender based violence in the DRC

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Speaker 1: is severely lacking according to the w HO, as often

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Speaker 1: there were only point zero eight psychiatrists and zero point

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Speaker 1: five psychiatric nurses per one hundred thousand people in the

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Speaker 1: d r C are less than sixty five psychiatrists and

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Speaker 1: four hundred five psychiatric nurses in a country of seventy

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Speaker 1: eight million people. So Rebecca put us in touch with

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Speaker 1: Cocotaine the go docs VP of Planning and Logistics and

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Speaker 1: Kimsway BSN r n c N, who are both on

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Speaker 1: the assessment team. Before we get into that, we want

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Speaker 1: to do a brief rundown of the situation there. Officially

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Speaker 1: established as a Belgian colony in nineteen o eight, what

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Speaker 1: was then the Republic of Congo gained independence in nineteen sixty.

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Speaker 1: The region has since experienced political and social unrest and instability,

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Speaker 1: violence and periods of civil war, and millions have been displaced.

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Speaker 1: Rape and sexual violence are frequently employed against women and

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Speaker 1: violence as a method of control, intimidation, and humiliation, so

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Speaker 1: for most survivors, justice isn't really an option. The perpetrators

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Speaker 1: ranged from soldiers to teachers to neighbors, and partly because

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Speaker 1: of that, most women and girls don't report it, those

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Speaker 1: that do might be cast out from their homes and families,

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Speaker 1: and on one day in noven between the twelve hundreds

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Speaker 1: were raped and schools are frequent targets. According to Congolese

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Speaker 1: women's groups, things like an ineffective justice system for governance

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Speaker 1: and women's inferior social position all play into the sexual

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Speaker 1: violence in the d r C, and while it is

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Speaker 1: under reported, the numbers we do have are disturbing. Recent

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Speaker 1: obtained statistics revealed that about eleven cases of sexual violence

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Speaker 1: are documented each month in a various health zones, which

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Speaker 1: amounts to an average of thirty six victims a day,

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Speaker 1: and the most affected population is comprised of girls aged

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Speaker 1: between ten to seventeen, although ten percent of the victims

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Speaker 1: are less than ten years old. Congolese women constitute of

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Speaker 1: the DRC population. Their visibility and contribution to food security

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Speaker 1: for the survival and running of the Congolese society is

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Speaker 1: undeniable and internationally recognized. However, studies and recent investigations show

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Speaker 1: that the position of Congolese women in several domains of

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Speaker 1: national life remains a low in comparison with men. Access

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Speaker 1: of women to decision making tables as well as to

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Speaker 1: national economical resources and production factors remains very limited. The

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Speaker 1: situation has deteriorated in latter years with the negative effects

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Speaker 1: of wars in repetition to the current persistent insecurity. In fact,

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Speaker 1: sixty one point two percent of Congolese women live underneath

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Speaker 1: the poverty threshold against fifty one point three percent of men,

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Speaker 1: while forty percent of women cannot attain economical timeliness and furthermore,

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Speaker 1: in the d r C, the situation of gender based violence,

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Speaker 1: particularly domestic violence on women and young girls, is very worrying.

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Speaker 1: Collected national data on various forms of violence against women

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Speaker 1: demonstrates how it strongly correlates with the under development in

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Speaker 1: conflict battered dr CE. Gender based violence, including sexual violence,

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Speaker 1: has reached epidemic levels. In alone, close to twenty six thousand,

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Speaker 1: eight hundred cases were registered, but many more have not

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Speaker 1: been reported for fear of retaliation because of the limited

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Speaker 1: monitoring and reporting systems in place, which don't cover all

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Speaker 1: affected areas in the country, and because of security and

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Speaker 1: access constraints. Humanitarian partners have been advocating for more funds

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Speaker 1: to be able to provide survivors with post rape kits.

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Speaker 1: Within seventy two hours in safe spaces where they can

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Speaker 1: get dedicated psychosocial support. In The twenty nineteen Humanitarian Response

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Speaker 1: Plan requires one point seven billion dollars to reach nine

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Speaker 1: million people. Of those, five point seven million people require

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Speaker 1: protection services. To date, the appeal remains only twelve percent funded.

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Speaker 1: And we can't forget the consequences beyond the trauma of rape,

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Speaker 1: like dropping out of school, pregnancy, forced marriage, s t

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Speaker 1: I S. Things like that. And just so you know,

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Speaker 1: early marriage is a common practice and an estimated seventy

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Speaker 1: of women between fifteen and nineteen years of age are married,

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Speaker 1: and mostly in the rural area. The legal minimum age

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Speaker 1: of marriage is fifteen for women in eighteen from men,

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Speaker 1: and because of this, in the more rural areas, girls

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Speaker 1: as young as thirteen are forced into marriages in order

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Speaker 1: to provide for their families. So clearly this is something

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Speaker 1: we should be talking about. But it's one thing reading

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Speaker 1: the statistics and it's another thing being on the ground

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Speaker 1: talking to those who are impacted. We talked with two

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Speaker 1: amazing women, Cocotang and Camplice Spray. Seriously, there are resumes outstanding,

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Speaker 1: astounding about what they experienced when they went on an

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Speaker 1: assessment miss around sex and gender based violence in the DRC,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna get right into that, but first we're

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Speaker 1: gonna take a quick break for word from our sponsor,

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Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you, sponsor. So let's let our

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Speaker 1: guests introduce themselves. My name is Coco. I'm a paramedic.

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Speaker 1: I'm currently the operations director for Global Outreach Doctors. UM.

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Speaker 1: I also work with a few other different NGOs. I

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Speaker 1: usually practice overseas, so I'm just getting out of my

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Speaker 1: Afghanistan contract. I'm a right way to Norway before i

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Speaker 1: go back to the US, and then I'll throw the

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Speaker 1: ball over to Kim. Hey. Yeah, my name is Kim

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Speaker 1: and I'm an emergency nurse by training volunteer with Global

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Speaker 1: Outreach Doctors and have a little bit of experience working

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Speaker 1: in West Africa as well. Yeah, you both were kind

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Speaker 1: enough to send along your resumes and they were super impressed.

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Speaker 1: They were very impressed. It made me feel very very Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm not accomplished or something. I'm just gonna leave at that. Um,

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Speaker 1: but how did you How did you get into this

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Speaker 1: line of work? So I first became an emergency medical

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Speaker 1: technician when I was in undergrad UM, partly because both

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Speaker 1: my very Asian, very Chinese parents are m d pH

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Speaker 1: ds and wanted me to be a doctor, so I

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Speaker 1: had to have some kind of exposure to medicine, but

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Speaker 1: also because being e MT paid better than other minimum

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Speaker 1: wage college jobs, so that's what I did. And then

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Speaker 1: when I got my Boring and full Bright scholarship and

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Speaker 1: fellowships to the Middle East, I was living in Jordan

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Speaker 1: and then I was doing research on this Year and

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Speaker 1: refugees and the ISIS issue, So I was working in

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Speaker 1: this year and refugee camps, and then someone heard that

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Speaker 1: I have medical skills, so I was like, do you

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Speaker 1: want to volunteer for the border metavacs? And I was

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Speaker 1: like sure, And that's how I kind of got started.

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Speaker 1: And then I walked out of UM sort of that experience,

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Speaker 1: realizing that there are these huge international crises that I

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Speaker 1: can be a part of. And then that winter the

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Speaker 1: typhoon Hian hit the Philippines UM, so then I immediately

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Speaker 1: signed up to volunteer there. And then as soon as

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Speaker 1: I graduated, I went to Sierra Leone UM at the

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Speaker 1: height of the e Bowl of crisis to do this

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Speaker 1: community outreach thing and then it just kind of snowballed

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Speaker 1: from there. I think can can attest to this too,

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Speaker 1: like once you kind of meet someone in this weird

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Speaker 1: little community, you get networked and sucked in and then

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Speaker 1: before you know it, all these organizations are asking if

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Speaker 1: you are available for this mission or just your availability

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Speaker 1: for this other mission and stuff like that. Very true, yep. UM.

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Speaker 1: So for me in terms of global health, UM, I

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Speaker 1: actually was finishing my AM Bachelors of Nursing UM and

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Speaker 1: was working full time as an in our nurse, which

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Speaker 1: is three twelve hour shifts a week, and finishing my

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Speaker 1: BS and I felt all of a sudden I had

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Speaker 1: all this free time on my hands and was kind

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Speaker 1: of bored and UM. So it was the beginning of

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Speaker 1: the fourteen a bowl of crisis, and I my apptition

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Speaker 1: out the U S A I D and I was

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Speaker 1: accepted by an m g O UM and signed on

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Speaker 1: for six weeks and ended up staying for two years

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Speaker 1: in West Africa. UM. And so that's kind of how

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Speaker 1: this whole thing has started for me. UM. And now

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Speaker 1: I'm getting multiple master's degrees in the field UM helping

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Speaker 1: to continue That's awesome and UM one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: we brought you on today that we wanted to hear

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Speaker 1: from you is h I one of your coworkers. I

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Speaker 1: guess Rebecca reached out to me and said, you should

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Speaker 1: really be talking about sex and gender based violence in

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Speaker 1: the d r C, which is something that both of you,

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Speaker 1: um have experienced with have seen firsthand. Um, could you

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Speaker 1: give us sort of a for for listeners, maybe a

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Speaker 1: one oh one of what's going on there? Yes, but

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Speaker 1: sort of before we jump into that, I think it'll

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Speaker 1: be good to preface this with, you know, like for us,

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Speaker 1: we were just kind of there for like a two

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Speaker 1: week thing, like, this isn't our reality, and we're not,

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Speaker 1: you know, like the experts on it by any means.

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Speaker 1: They're certainly a lot more people who are more qualified

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Speaker 1: to speak about it than us. UM, So we're just

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Speaker 1: kind of coming at it with the perspective of, you know,

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Speaker 1: like a two week medical mission volunteer type of point

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Speaker 1: of view, if that makes any sense, Right, That's why

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Speaker 1: you were sent there, right, sort of a mission to

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Speaker 1: to understand the scope of the problem. Perhaps, Okay, So,

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Speaker 1: and Kim, obviously I feel free to jump in whenever

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Speaker 1: you like the original sort of idea for the mission UM,

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Speaker 1: like when this idea with birth was that we would

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Speaker 1: go in for some kind of healthcare assessment and see

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Speaker 1: where the gaps are UM in sort of like the

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Speaker 1: healthcare infrastructures health Hebrew. And this was something that go

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Speaker 1: Dux has done in other countries, so like earlier the

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Speaker 1: year we did something similar for Ethiopia UM, but our

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Speaker 1: local partner that we were working with UM it's called

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Speaker 1: Sufco and it's this French acronym that I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to try to pronounce because I'll mess it up, but

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Speaker 1: it basically works with like these local girls and women

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Speaker 1: and empowering them giving up skills sort of like navigating

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Speaker 1: the social landscape of being a woman in DRC. So

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Speaker 1: we kind of approached it with maybe like focusing on

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Speaker 1: um STVV, which is like sexual gender based violence. But

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Speaker 1: obviously we didn't really know what we would find until

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Speaker 1: we actually got on the ground and started doing our assessment.

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Speaker 1: Can't you have anything to add? Yeah, no, I was

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Speaker 1: just gonna go further from that, and then you know,

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Speaker 1: once we arrived on the ground and realized, UM, there

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Speaker 1: are quite a lot of people, as Poco said, that

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Speaker 1: are much more experienced than this and actually doing a

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Speaker 1: lot of work in um stvv UM, which is a

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Speaker 1: sexual gender based violence area, including Dr mccuig who's there

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Speaker 1: in um Mukabo who's won the Nobel Prize and he's

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Speaker 1: there doing all the like physical problem. So, UM, we

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Speaker 1: realized that the mental health issues related to both the

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Speaker 1: SGBV and the ongoing war in UM the d r

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Speaker 1: C where how global outreach doctors could add some support

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Speaker 1: to the area. Yeah, So I think one of the

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Speaker 1: key issues that like became like immediately urgently apparent was

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Speaker 1: that there was kind of like no psychosocial support for

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Speaker 1: all of these like women or just victims of STDV

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Speaker 1: in general. And I mean, God knows, it doesn't have

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Speaker 1: to be female. But like I think the statistics are

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Speaker 1: right now something like point eight like psychologists for like

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Speaker 1: a hundred thousand people in Congo, and I think when

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Speaker 1: we were there, there was maybe like one psychologist that

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Speaker 1: was working in the entire South Keybrew area. So this

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Speaker 1: was like a completely kind of like foreign territory, uh,

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Speaker 1: where I think the healthcare providers there. Um, And even

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Speaker 1: in some of the interviews that we were doing, it's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, what are you doing after your assault to

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Speaker 1: kind of help you get over this, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of the answers we got or just oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe some support groups or sometimes I can talk to

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Speaker 1: my friends, but it was just like a complete lack

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Speaker 1: of this particular support, even so much so that the

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Speaker 1: providers realize that this was an issue. People would show

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Speaker 1: up to the hospitals and our clinics complaining of kind

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Speaker 1: of generalized body aches or just not tension was another

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Speaker 1: big one. Yeah, and really if you dialed down, you

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Speaker 1: found out that there was some much trauma. Whether it

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Speaker 1: was s GBV or related to the war, UM doesn't

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Speaker 1: really matter. It was just a trauma. And really the

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Speaker 1: the underlying problem was the mental health issues that nobody

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Speaker 1: had been addressing there at all. In any way, UM,

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Speaker 1: they don't have the medicines available, they have very limited

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Speaker 1: UM support. The women don't really feel like they could

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Speaker 1: even discuss it with each other very much. UM and

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Speaker 1: certainly across gender lines, there's really no discussion on this problem. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: When we were doing the research for the they were

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Speaker 1: just so so so many stories UM so many women

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Speaker 1: who were talking about it. And I do think that

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Speaker 1: it's something that UM, we don't think about a lot

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Speaker 1: is the mental trauma, like people who have experienced it do.

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Speaker 1: But if if you haven't, then it just doesn't occur

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Speaker 1: to people that this is a huge gap that that

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Speaker 1: would cause all these other things. And I think in

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Speaker 1: sort of that region in general, I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: people kind of treated as like a tired or talked

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Speaker 1: out topic almost, you know, like it's known that DRC

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Speaker 1: is like the rage capital of the world just because

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Speaker 1: of its like violent recent history. Um. But also like

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Speaker 1: this issue has been eclipsed by a lot of other issues,

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Speaker 1: you know, like the M twenty three rebellion or like

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Speaker 1: the recently Bowl of crisis, like this has sort of

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Speaker 1: kind of become like a bad burner topic. Um. And

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Speaker 1: even when I was coming off of the mission and

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Speaker 1: reaching out to some of my journalist friends to see

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Speaker 1: if there might be potential interest on writing about kind

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Speaker 1: of like what's going on with these women sort of

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Speaker 1: like how years decades after these conflicts, like there has

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Speaker 1: been no respite for them, and the response has been

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Speaker 1: you know, there there will be no interest for such

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Speaker 1: an article. It's like a talked out issue. UM. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, it's just like very sad that is so

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Speaker 1: disappointing that it's something can be talked out when it's

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Speaker 1: people's lives that we're talking about and how they are

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Speaker 1: affected on a daily basis in such an awful dramatic

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Speaker 1: that's really saddening. Yeah, and that does actually bring me

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Speaker 1: to your question. I was going to ask later, but

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Speaker 1: since it's a good segue, Um, how what ways do

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Speaker 1: you think the media could improve when talking about this?

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Speaker 1: And um, what ways have they failed? Which might dovetail

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Speaker 1: into each other probably oh, um, like in Congo in

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Speaker 1: general or kind of like sexual violence as a broad topic, um,

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Speaker 1: and can do if you don't mine, I'll start with

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Speaker 1: sort of like a personal experience. So actually, um, before

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Speaker 1: this Congo mission, I was in Ethiopia on a different mission,

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Speaker 1: and I was actually sexually assaulted by Ethiopia and local there. Um.

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Speaker 1: And it's like still an ongoing issue that I'm dealing

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Speaker 1: with a lawyer in Ethiopia to try and see this

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Speaker 1: case through, even though, like you know, despite not be

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Speaker 1: in Ethiopia, which is a complete nightmare. And I had

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Speaker 1: just like reaching out to some of the local newspapers

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Speaker 1: to see if there might be interest in sort of

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Speaker 1: like outing this guy that lives among their midst and

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Speaker 1: it is a well known sexual assaulter and you know,

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Speaker 1: like thief of like foreign tourists. Um, I got like

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Speaker 1: zero response. UM. And I think it's just like it's

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Speaker 1: not popular news, or it's like talked out news like

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Speaker 1: I was saying before, like oh another person got assaulted.

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Speaker 1: What were they thinking? You know? Or the other end

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Speaker 1: of the spectrum is like who cares about that? Like

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Speaker 1: that's so like a non issue and that I guess

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Speaker 1: that's sort of like Ethiopian media. I can't really make

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Speaker 1: a broad comment about like US media without writing a

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Speaker 1: book about it or I guess how much time, Kim,

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Speaker 1: what thoughts do you have? I don't know. I don't

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Speaker 1: have really great thoughts on on that. UM too much really, Um,

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Speaker 1: it is a huge topic and there's, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: so many different parts of it right that you know,

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Speaker 1: people need to be feel free to address their issues

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Speaker 1: and recognize that there are issues. We also need to

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Speaker 1: recognize that it's a problem in the world. UM. But UM,

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Speaker 1: you know, our our DRC mission UM was kind of

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Speaker 1: more focusing on how can we get the local providers

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Speaker 1: to help recognize that this is a problem and then

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Speaker 1: treated as such. I do kind of just want to

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Speaker 1: add also, um And this really hit hard for me

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Speaker 1: when I was asked this question, and so one of

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Speaker 1: the local women, I can't remember which one of us

333
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Speaker 1: did her interview, UM, but she was asking like, so

334
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Speaker 1: are you she she you don't like recounted for us,

335
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Speaker 1: like her probably her worst moment in her life, like

336
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Speaker 1: talking about her sexual assault. I think she was getting

337
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Speaker 1: raped or something. Um. And then she was like, so

338
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Speaker 1: are you going to do something? Like are you going

339
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Speaker 1: to help me with it? And you know, we had

340
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Speaker 1: to give her a very painful answer of like no,

341
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,959
Speaker 1: we're here for the assessment, Like all we can do

342
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Speaker 1: right now is collect your story. And it kind of

343
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Speaker 1: like reminds me of the times that, like I've worked

344
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Speaker 1: in other refugee camps or in vulnerable populations where my

345
00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,520
Speaker 1: job wasn't not as a journalist, but even as like

346
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Speaker 1: a humanitarian worker, My job was to collect their stories

347
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,520
Speaker 1: um or like turn them into data and numbers. And

348
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:52,440
Speaker 1: you know, in the same vein that journalists just turned

349
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Speaker 1: them into like names and words on the page, but

350
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Speaker 1: for them that's like their lives, Like they're telling you

351
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Speaker 1: their worst moments and and not knowing if they'll ever

352
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,040
Speaker 1: kind of see any recourse from the information they give you,

353
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Speaker 1: and even if it does, you know, it could take years, months,

354
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Speaker 1: what have you. And I just think that's like a

355
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Speaker 1: very painful thing for them, right, Yeah, absolutely, And um,

356
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Speaker 1: I know a lot of cases go unreported because there

357
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:24,679
Speaker 1: is a fear of of retaliation or just almost like,

358
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Speaker 1: well it's going to be painful and I don't know

359
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:32,040
Speaker 1: what he'll get out of it. Yeah, that's very true. Um.

360
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Speaker 1: And but the other part of this is the problem

361
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,840
Speaker 1: with um, you know, western medical missions kind of issue

362
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,520
Speaker 1: of you know, like we show up and then you know,

363
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,800
Speaker 1: the white doctors are there and everybody wants to get seen.

364
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,359
Speaker 1: And because we're going to solve the day, and that's

365
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,480
Speaker 1: not the way that this is gonna the world is

366
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Speaker 1: going to get better. The world is going to get

367
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Speaker 1: better by m empowering locals to do the work, the

368
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Speaker 1: same work, because we are not the you know, all

369
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Speaker 1: powerful people, um are just the same as everybody else, right,

370
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Speaker 1: And I just I just want to add like one

371
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Speaker 1: last point, like one I just like recalled and instance

372
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Speaker 1: where I was working like a refugee camp in Jordan's

373
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Speaker 1: and this group of I forget which newspaper they're working from.

374
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Speaker 1: They wanted to come in and interview the children, and

375
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Speaker 1: they were working on like a specific topic. Like their

376
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:26,120
Speaker 1: question was like what do you dream about? And like

377
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,160
Speaker 1: in sort of organizing this and watching how the children

378
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,119
Speaker 1: failed to comprehend this question because they were just like,

379
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Speaker 1: what do you mean what we dream about? Like we

380
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,399
Speaker 1: dream about our old homes, like being at home, like

381
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,680
Speaker 1: we left our houses like um. And I think that's

382
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Speaker 1: kind of where maybe Western media fails a little bit,

383
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,880
Speaker 1: is like taking these questions that we think our audiences

384
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Speaker 1: are would be interested in, but are completely out of

385
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 1: context for the population that they're trying to interview. And

386
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,919
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm like articulating this correctly, but

387
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,440
Speaker 1: like that question was like so out in left field

388
00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 1: for those refugees, like they were like I don't even

389
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 1: understand and what you're asking. But for us audiences, like

390
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,400
Speaker 1: a Western audiences, like, oh, what do you dream about?

391
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 1: It's like such a high consciousness, like surreal topic that

392
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,840
Speaker 1: for them, you know, they can't even get food or water,

393
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 1: Like what does it matter what they dream about? Yeah?

394
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 1: I think that's perfect cook of Yeah, well, now you

395
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 1: have any two questions I need to ask you're putting

396
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,160
Speaker 1: so much out here. UM. The first question I did,

397
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,359
Speaker 1: I want to ask how many did you have a

398
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 1: lot of women that were willing to come forward? UM?

399
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,879
Speaker 1: Wasn't easy to obtain that information because obviously they probably

400
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,360
Speaker 1: all interact with again groups of people that come through

401
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,919
Speaker 1: trying to get an assess in or maybe try to

402
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,360
Speaker 1: help or not. How often would you have pushed back?

403
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,119
Speaker 1: And how often would you have like a flood of

404
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 1: people coming in, Yes, I want to talk, I want

405
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,920
Speaker 1: you to know what's happening. I think we had mostly

406
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 1: like floods of people who are willing to talk to us.

407
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 1: But I think it was more under the assumption that

408
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,640
Speaker 1: we were there to do something or like fix it. Yeah,

409
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 1: no agree, and um, working with our partners Safeco, UM,

410
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,440
Speaker 1: they kind of, um you know, said hey, they're coming

411
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 1: and they want to talk to you. And so we

412
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 1: would have you know, hundreds of people there in the morning,

413
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,479
Speaker 1: UM that wanted to talk to us, and we're willing.

414
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,439
Speaker 1: But again the problem was that we really could do

415
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,639
Speaker 1: very very little for them, and some of them like

416
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 1: walked from nearby villages like just to be seen. UM.

417
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 1: And I mean we we did hold you know, like

418
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,880
Speaker 1: clinical hours where like we did clinical work, like we

419
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 1: asked them what their ailments were, and then we you know,

420
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 1: had sent them to our little traveling pharmacy. Um. But

421
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: you know buy and large for like this huge, large

422
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 1: b myth of an issue of like s GBV, Like

423
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 1: we really could only just talk to them, right, And

424
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 1: that was really sad. Yeah, and that could be especially

425
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,159
Speaker 1: if you're in the medical field and you want to

426
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: fix things as well. Um. And then the other part

427
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 1: was as you were talking about people coming in and

428
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 1: this Western ice idea, one of the big issues that

429
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 1: I've had for so long when it comes to mission

430
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: trips and we know the Western supplizations saying we're gonna

431
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 1: go fix these guys. I want to go to Africa.

432
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 1: The whole white Savior complex. How often have you been

433
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 1: running into that? And can you kind of speak on

434
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:18,360
Speaker 1: the damages that can do constantly? And I think so,

435
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: like it's really sexy. I think for organizations to be like, oh,

436
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 1: We're going to go for two weeks and like do

437
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 1: this thing and these are our benchmarks, key performance indicators.

438
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 1: How many people serve, how you know, how much drug

439
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 1: supplies we delivered, but like there's very rarely kind of

440
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: a plan for sustainability because you know, that's a long

441
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: term investment. It requires money, it requires like investments and energy,

442
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 1: like supplies and stuff. It could be like years whatever,

443
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of organizations just don't have

444
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 1: the capability for that type of long term vision. And

445
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily their fault, right, Like, you know, we're

446
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 1: volunteer organizations, were by nature limited in the scope and

447
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 1: our funding. I think lacking this makes this kind of

448
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: industry sort of very myopic in its application because when

449
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 1: we arrived in some of these places, they were like, oh,

450
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 1: so you brought us drugs, right, Like, you're here to

451
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: see our patients, so our doctors don't have to work

452
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: for the days that you're here, Like they really just

453
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: expect you to do this work for them and then

454
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: they'll just go back to life as normal, and then

455
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: another group will come do that work and then they'll

456
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 1: go back to life as normal. M Yeah, no, I

457
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: completely agree with that, um on all sides, right um,

458
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: Because you know, as the Westerners going, you know, people

459
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: think oh I'm gonna I'm gonna go help for two

460
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 1: weeks UM. But that's really just barely aband aid, right, UM.

461
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: And really what needs to happen is a longer term solution.

462
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: I mean, and of course there are emergency situations. Two

463
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: weeks is perfect, right, like a typhoon or a hurricane

464
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 1: or an earthquake. You know that that's no problem. You

465
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: can do that acute care. But for the most part,

466
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 1: you need longer term care. And you know that's why

467
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: Global Outreached Doctors has been able to UM, you know,

468
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: connect with these thirty plus you know psych advisors from

469
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: the United States to start doing some education UM in

470
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 1: the Congo, UM with the providers that have joined us

471
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: as part of our DRC group. UM. So that helps.

472
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 1: So I think, like what makes sort of our outlook

473
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: on this CONGO mission a little bit unique is like

474
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 1: we are trying to implement like a much longer term

475
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: plan UM and not necessarily in terms of like sending

476
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: teams over and over again, but sort of like empowering

477
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: the like the local providers to take charge and ownership

478
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 1: of like their own health care system, like we've with

479
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 1: like suffrago UM and like our local partners have helped,

480
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 1: you know, nominate these community champions who could potentially apply

481
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: this clinical psychology training to their own communities and like

482
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: hold workshops for their own people instead of you know,

483
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 1: having these ZU doctors come in and speak to them

484
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 1: and then leave for two weeks. Um. And I think

485
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 1: so of if this idea could be more widely adopted

486
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: by other organizations, UM, it could really like change the

487
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: face of humanitarian work. Yeah, definitely. And UM, I mean

488
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: I remember one example for me was, UM, we were

489
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: inundated with hundreds of people wanting to be seen, and

490
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: I was kind of doing my ear nurse triage and

491
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: there was one lady who was completely concerned about UM

492
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: and said, you know, she has to come next. She

493
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: just was not acting right in any way. And I

494
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 1: didn't really know what was going on in terms of,

495
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 1: oh this was the one that fainted in the middle

496
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: of the line. No, no, no, not that lady, and

497
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 1: this is actually so many stories. Yeah, but and so

498
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: I said, you know, we have to see her next,

499
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: and and all the locals just came up to me

500
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: and said, oh, no, no, don't worry about her. She's

501
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 1: just crazy, you know. And UM they kept saying, okay, yeah,

502
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: she's just crazy. UM, and we I finally got I

503
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: pulled her in next to be seen, right, So she

504
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 1: kind of skipped ahead in the line because she definitely

505
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 1: looked the sickest in the line. Um. And as an

506
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 1: ear nurse, that's what I'm used to doing, is speaking

507
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: the worst and um, you know, and it became quite

508
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: obvious that she was schizophrenic, um and you know it

509
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 1: was having some major problems and we don't know why

510
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 1: because she's just not able to communicate in that way

511
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,880
Speaker 1: at all at that point. Um. But but more than

512
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: getting her any help, it was the other Congolese realizing that, like,

513
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 1: she was a real person and did have real problems.

514
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: It wasn't just oh, she's crazy and we can leave

515
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: her there, um, and we all get to get seen

516
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 1: because you know, we have, um, some other issues that

517
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: you know, those are the major issues that need to

518
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: get dealt with, right. But I mean you think about

519
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: it in sort of their point of view, like how

520
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: often does a person get dismissed for just like being

521
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: a little off or like crazy, But it's actually like

522
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: they maybe having like PTSD or like some really serious

523
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: underlying medical issue that they just you know, get brushed

524
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: off as like, oh, she's crazy, don't worry about her

525
00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah. Um, one of the first episodes we

526
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: did together, we did a mini series on trauma when

527
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: we first started. Um, so we've we've talked about those

528
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: kind of health those negative health outcomes that can be

529
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: associated with it. A lot of the stories I read

530
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: just seeing like things like sci is in pregnancy, all

531
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: these just things. Um, that's sort of yeah, yeah, I

532
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: mean women used to get burned for existing pretty much, right.

533
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 1: I Mean that was definitely one of our big conversations.

534
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: And that's. Um. I've been in social work before this world,

535
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: and one of the things that Georgia and the US

536
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: has finally started talking about is trauma based and evidence

537
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: based therapy instead of just diagnosing with random things here

538
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: and there and saying, oh, that's just their behavior. Understanding

539
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: a majority of their diagnosis and their behavior is due

540
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: to trauma, and knowing that that's only starting now for

541
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: the U. S can't imagine what that looks like for

542
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: the rest of the world. Can do You Remember that

543
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,479
Speaker 1: one patient, she was like an elderly lady and she

544
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: came to us like genuinely fearing for her life because

545
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: she was like ostracized by her village because some kind

546
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 1: of like sexual trauma happened to her. And then I

547
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: think she had a family member dies within her village,

548
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: like I thought she was a witch or something. And

549
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: then she was like ostracized in her tent, like people

550
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: don't approach her, um, Like sometimes they threw stones her,

551
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: like do you remember that one? And she was like

552
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: begging us, like please help us, like I can't stay

553
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: here and I'm gonna die, like they're gonna kill me.

554
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: Remember that? And I think that that's I mean, that

555
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: wasn't the only time I heard that. You know, after

556
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: some sexual based violence happens, that then you're considered you know,

557
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: um ostracized, untouchable. I mean even so much so that

558
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: the children of rape cannot go to the normal schools

559
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: you know, have to um, you know, are also ostracized.

560
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: So it's a it's a continual process. Oh yeah. And

561
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: so we had we had this one like super young

562
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: teenage girl, um she was getting raped and then to

563
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: the point that she had like a rectal anal fistula um.

564
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: And she did not speak for I think two years,

565
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: and even at our interview, like she refused to say

566
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: anything to us, like she I think her mother or

567
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: her aunt or something like talked for her and recounting

568
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: her experience, and she was just like catatonic, like zero

569
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: aspect um. Yeah, it was. It was really depressing. Yes, yes,

570
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: I think that we're going to backtrack a little bit

571
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 1: just to get all the information. But can you because

572
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: you've said it a few times and obviously it's what

573
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: we were with the can you explain Global Outreach Doctors

574
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: and what it doesn't what its mission is? Sure, So,

575
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: Global Outreach Doctors we are a nonprofit medical organization. UM

576
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: We send volunteer teams of healthcare providers to you know,

577
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: like high needs, low resource areas parts of the world.

578
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: And our missions range from like healthcare augmentation to like

579
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: various responses to assessments. Really so I can name a

580
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: few like recent ones. Obviously this Congo one, it was

581
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: a healthcare assessment. UM we did another assessment in the

582
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: Gonder Mountain region in Ethiopia last year. UM we also

583
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: went on like supplied volunteers for there was a U. S.

584
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: Southcom Navy trip in and around the Caribbean and South

585
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: America sort of to help out with the Venezuelan refugee

586
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: crisis and all the IDPs and refugees that were displaced

587
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: from that conflict. Um. We've also like sent people to

588
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: most Hole in two thousand seven during the anti ISIS offensives.

589
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: Currently we're like working on a project to support the

590
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: Dangai fever outbreak and like the Marshall is live. So

591
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: I mean there's a variety of missions that were involved

592
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: in and they're not always sort of like in the

593
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: same sphere. Um, but I think in general we're sort

594
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: of moving more towards like this long term sustainable development

595
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: like local empowerment type, whereas I think a lot of

596
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: our like pure organizations sort of are more into like

597
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: the quick in, quick out, like high speed, low drag

598
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: type of like two weeks patch, patch, patch, and then

599
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: get out type missions. And if you're interested in more information,

600
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: obviously we have a website shameless plug its www dot

601
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: Global Outreach Doctors dot org. Awesome normal spelling. We love

602
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: shameless plugs. That is great, exactly what we need. Okay,

603
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: So going back to to this mission in the DRC,

604
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: could you get what was kind of a general just

605
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:45,719
Speaker 1: day like there and then what data did you end

606
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: up with if you can have is there any like

607
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: analysis or like from what age to what age? How

608
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 1: many women did you see? Are people? I can talk

609
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: a little bit more about like the day to day

610
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: stuff because I managed the legistics, and then I'll kick

611
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: it over to Kim to talk about the data stuff

612
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: because she was definitely only more involved with that part.

613
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: Um I wouldn't say that we had any day in

614
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: like the two weeks in some extra days mission that

615
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: were the same, Like every day was either moving from

616
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: one place to another or seeing patients at this one place.

617
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: We're getting ready to go to another place. At one point,

618
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 1: like we had questions about our security because in the

619
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: area we were going into, you know, there's been known

620
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: rebel activity and violence in that area. Um So, then

621
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: we had to take a flight in. But then it

622
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 1: had to be like a minuscal helicopter because like the

623
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: charter flight cancel, so that our team got split. Um So,

624
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: then like the people who had flights out of Rwanda

625
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 1: really early went on the un helicopter, but the rest

626
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: of us were like stuck in this enemy surrounded mountain

627
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 1: village for like a few days with no internet. I

628
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:46,839
Speaker 1: don't know if you've ever seen like this movie called

629
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 1: like the Tears of the sun. But one of my

630
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: security contractor friends, when I told him about it, he

631
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: was like, Cocoa, that's literally the plot. Like if you

632
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 1: were there for a few more days and I didn't

633
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,760
Speaker 1: hear from you, like we would have sent several bearded

634
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 1: men to go rescue you guys. I mean, obviously it

635
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: didn't come to that. UM. I mean it was a

636
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: beautiful place to be stranded and like the locals treated

637
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: us like family, and it was amazing every day dealing

638
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: with some aspect of the logistics of being in that

639
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 1: part of the world. UM. Yeah. So then UM talking

640
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: about the data, so UM, we did assessments in all

641
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: the different hospitals or clinics that we went to on UM,

642
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: both depression and mental health. UM. So the the scoring

643
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 1: systems we used for the pH Q two UM in

644
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: PHQ nine, which are both regularly used in the United

645
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: States for depression, and we also use something called the

646
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:49,320
Speaker 1: Refugee Health Screening fifteen UM, which is obviously been studied

647
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 1: only for refugees and or traumatize patients. So people would

648
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 1: come to us and we would say, you know, are

649
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 1: you a refugee or do you have some serious trauma?

650
00:35:58,040 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: And if they said yes, then we would use that

651
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: HS fifteen. If they said no, then we would just

652
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,760
Speaker 1: use the PHQ two And if the PHQ two is positive,

653
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 1: then you move on to the PHQ nine. So obviously

654
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,320
Speaker 1: to add that like refugee is a broad term, also

655
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: like including I d P s because a lot of

656
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: these internally, these people you know, moved around DRC because

657
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 1: of like nearby violence and stuff like that. Yeah, that's

658
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: very sorry, continue that thinks. Um so, but most people

659
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: said yes to the been either a refugee, I d

660
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: P or had some severe trauma, and so we would

661
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: score them on the um R h S fifteen and

662
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 1: um a hundred percent of the people that we use

663
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 1: that on scored positive for severe trauma. And then the

664
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: PhD were like at one point you like ask you

665
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: got to question four, and the just like didn't bother

666
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: asking the rest of the question because you were like,

667
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: they're positive, let's move on. Yeah, very cue. Yeah, we

668
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,760
Speaker 1: were so overwhelmed and so busy with so many people

669
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,240
Speaker 1: that I didn't we didn't always get to every single

670
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 1: question because when somebody was positive, how to a positive

671
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:03,800
Speaker 1: score for it? Then I was just like they're positive.

672
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 1: I don't care for the rest of the questions and

673
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: we just need to get them to some assistance if

674
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 1: we can. UM. And really, again this was more about

675
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: teaching the local providers UM that these are important questions

676
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: to ask on every single patient because you don't know

677
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: if the lady who shows up with belly paine is

678
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: really there because she has UM some mental health issue UM,

679
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 1: rather than just you know, giving her some medicine for

680
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: her supposed belly paine and sending her on her way. UM.

681
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 1: So that was I think the big learning experience, and

682
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 1: for me, sitting with UM local nurses and teaching them

683
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: how to ask these questions appropriately and realizing why it

684
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: was important was really the highlight, you know, getting to

685
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: know these nurses and getting them to understand that this

686
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: is important to their community and how they can help

687
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: their community. Yeah, and I think so we also did

688
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,760
Speaker 1: like gendered focus groups UM and obviously we had larger

689
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: groups of women who are involved with these focused groups

690
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,399
Speaker 1: and like the men's group, but like even being able

691
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 1: to explain to them, like you know, in like in

692
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 1: a safe like crowd setting, that like, not all of

693
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: your symptoms are because you're sick, like you're you could

694
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 1: be like semantic sizing your psychological issues. And I think

695
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: a lot of that, a lot of them just didn't

696
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 1: know that that was a thing. So you know, you

697
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 1: might not have headaches because you have a brain tumor

698
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 1: or something. You could be having headaches just because you

699
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: have psychological trauma and it's manifesting as this physical issue. Right.

700
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 1: What was the age range of people you saw wide

701
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: right right wide? Yeah, I mean, you know, I would

702
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: say it was the entire range. I mean in terms

703
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 1: of STVV. Obviously, the babies weren't you know, nobody mentioned that,

704
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 1: although I think we had four year olds or stuff

705
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: with STBV, but we just certainly saw you know, babies

706
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: with malnutrition and malaria and other things. But then all

707
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: the way too, as old as as possible, I mean,

708
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: like definitely post menopausal age um. And like they you know,

709
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: whatever age range, Like they had legit questions, Like there

710
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:09,399
Speaker 1: were elderly ladies who asked us questions about like what

711
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 1: to do about certain sexual situations, like just as like

712
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 1: the young ones do um. And you know, mothers who

713
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: were asking what should I do for my six year

714
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: old daughter who was a gang rape? Like so and

715
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,320
Speaker 1: and one lady so like, she didn't ask this to me,

716
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: She asked my colleague, so like her question was so

717
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: like what can you what advice can you give us,

718
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 1: you know, as a Congoleves woman in this environment, like

719
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: what can I do? And so our colleague answered this

720
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: question and I wasn't there, but maybe you were, Like

721
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 1: she handled it very well, because I definitely I would

722
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 1: not have had any idea what to say. Um, but

723
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: she was like, you know, I know your situation looks

724
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: really bleak, but it's important to have this kind of solidarity,

725
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 1: feel open with each other and support each other. I

726
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 1: can't like replicate her super eloquent answer, but it was

727
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: is like a lot of those types of questions that

728
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: made you turn your head a little bit and do

729
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:11,399
Speaker 1: a double take on yourself. M hm hm yeah. And

730
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: I sort of going off of that, I m a

731
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 1: lot of news media called the DRC, like you know,

732
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 1: the capital of the world or the most dangerous place

733
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 1: for a woman, And I did read a lot of

734
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: articles from written by Congolese women who were saying like, yes,

735
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: the situation is really bad, but there's also a lot

736
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: of sisterhood and solidarity and strength here and resilience. Do

737
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 1: you have one of like the enlightening, eye opening things

738
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 1: I think we encounter was how many kind of like

739
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 1: just informal women's support groups there were, right, because, like

740
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,800
Speaker 1: one of the questions we asked on these like interviews

741
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 1: was like, um, so, what are some activities that you

742
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: do to kind of like seek support? And I think

743
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: most of them said that there's some kind of like

744
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 1: a local community like women's group that they go to.

745
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: But obviously the issue is like that if there was

746
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 1: a leader for these groups in order that really trained

747
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 1: in clinical psychology, they might not be giving out appropriate advice.

748
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 1: But I mean there was like what I felt was

749
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: like this hunger for like something better or like something

750
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: to improve the current situation with within this like gender

751
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 1: meeting group, support group thing. Would you agree with him? Yeah, definitely,

752
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: Um yeah, there seemed to be a lot um you know,

753
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: and I don't think that there has to be some

754
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 1: really specific training. I think, you know, just sometimes you know,

755
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 1: sitting down and and listening to each other is all

756
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 1: that's really needed, and and having that ability to say, hey,

757
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: I have had these problems, but the problem with that.

758
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: In the congo, what I was told was that then

759
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: you know, then you become a victim for you know,

760
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: more violence because you have ostracized yourself of you know,

761
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 1: talk with other women's sort of thing. So that's actually

762
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 1: I can't remember which religion was, but like someone was

763
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: telling us how um, she was being targeted because she

764
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,879
Speaker 1: was like championing this effort and then that was kind

765
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: of like a target on her back because she was

766
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 1: sort of sticking her neck out on behalf of these

767
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,479
Speaker 1: other women. Right. Well, we even had that one woman

768
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: who had been just attacked in Machette i um uh

769
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 1: just you know, in the last week because she was

770
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: a champion for it. Yeah. Um. But the other part

771
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: of that I also want to mention is, I mean,

772
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,919
Speaker 1: although you know, going back to the Western media kind

773
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 1: of um question is, although it's important to discuss all

774
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 1: these things and realize that this is happening in the world,

775
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: I think it's also important to discuss how beautiful and

776
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:40,720
Speaker 1: great the Congo is. I loved it there. Um. Recently,

777
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: I was asked whereas my favorite place in the world,

778
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,240
Speaker 1: and I said ukabu Um which is in South Kibu, Congo. Um.

779
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: I really really enjoyed. The country was beautiful, that people

780
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: were amazing and so you know, I think we need

781
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: to also realize that good things happen in these places. Um,

782
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: it's just not all the trauma and badness, and I

783
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 1: think some of the stuff is forgotten. Yeah. So actually

784
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: two things I want to add to that where I

785
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 1: think back to your question about where media fails. I

786
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: think we're so eager to highlight all of these like

787
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: negative problems and paint this like shocking picture almost kind

788
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 1: of you know, like people stopping on the side of

789
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 1: the road to stare at this grotesque accident. But like,

790
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 1: I don't think we do enough to sort of highlight

791
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: all these amazing initiatives that are coming out of this place,

792
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 1: like telling stories of these champions who are like willingly

793
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 1: making themselves a target in order to stand up for

794
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 1: their sisters, or you know, these amazing women in these

795
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: communities who are empowering like the local girls to do

796
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: this thing, or you know, like being the person that

797
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: they can go to, or like providing housing and like

798
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: a safe place for other women to speak up. I

799
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 1: don't think we do enough to highlight those stories. And

800
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 1: then the second thing is I'm going to make a

801
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 1: shame this plug for tourism though, because I got to

802
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: go to Arunga Park, um the companies Viega Park, and

803
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 1: also as part of the Verona Park trip, I got

804
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: to hike Nara Volcano, which is the largest persistent lava

805
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: lake volcano in the world. Um And I have been

806
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 1: to a lot of African countries and I have never

807
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: experienced amazing hospitality at the level that I experienced it

808
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 1: when I did my Varona trip. Like the tourism industry

809
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 1: there is really really starving for tourists, and for obvious reasons,

810
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 1: you know, the violence, like the people people. They know

811
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: that people don't want to go there. So when they

812
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: have tourists who you know, are I guess crazy, you're

813
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 1: brave enough to visit there, they're like they express their

814
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:40,839
Speaker 1: gratitude in such a genuine, almost heartbreaking way that like

815
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, like I bought a stuffed guerrilla even

816
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: though I like rarely buy souvenirs, I bought the stuff

817
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: gerrilla just because it supports like the local community there,

818
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 1: because like the women there they make it and they

819
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:55,879
Speaker 1: you know, the money goes back to the rangers who

820
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 1: protect the guerrillas and stuff. So it's you know, your

821
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: audience who members listening, like, visit Congo. It's perfectly safe.

822
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,879
Speaker 1: You will have an amazing trip and the hospitality there

823
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 1: is amazing and you will not regret it. Like literally

824
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: I was within feet distance of the guerrillas and it

825
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: was like a spectacular experience. And sorry, I forgot that.

826
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 1: It is much cheaper to do this like guerrilla trek

827
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:29,479
Speaker 1: uh in Congo than Rwanda, for example. So like my

828
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 1: entire four day itinerary for the Runga Park and the

829
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: New York Gongo Volcano costs maybe, whereas in Rwanda just

830
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: the permit, the trekking permit itself costs, not including accommodations

831
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 1: all that. So it is very like cost like your

832
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 1: value for money, you definitely get more bang for your

833
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 1: buck if you do this in Congo. All right, there

834
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 1: we go side notes, So yeah, I love this, We

835
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 1: got too shameless plugs. And then off of that, what

836
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 1: else can listeners do UM if they're interested in in

837
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 1: helping out in any way, supporting anyway UM the situation

838
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: and dear c well, I mean certainly go docs always

839
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: needs UM support, so both UM tears and the financial support.

840
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:27,280
Speaker 1: So you're welcome to visit our website again. Will outreach doctors,

841
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 1: dot org, UM doesn't it doesn't have to be it

842
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be us. You know, like if you're

843
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 1: passionate about a particular issue like there, I'm sure there's

844
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 1: no shortage for organizations that are working on that issue. UM.

845
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 1: I would say, like do your research. I always try

846
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 1: to support like sort of more grassroots local organizations than

847
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: like large international ones like I c r C or

848
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 1: Red Cross, just because like I want my money to

849
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 1: go where I wanted to go, as opposed to like

850
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: overhead UM. And if you can find if you do

851
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 1: your research in a particular area or issue that you're

852
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: interested in, you find an organization that works, and you know,

853
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 1: I would just reach out to them. Maybe you are

854
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: you maybe you run a podcast that could highlight some

855
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 1: of these issues. If you have deep pockets, you know,

856
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 1: like you know, money goes a long way in parts

857
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: of the world like that. And also if you have

858
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: skills and we like to volunteer, you know, like go

859
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 1: Dogs and some of the other organizations that work with

860
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 1: We're always looking for like volunteers who can come on

861
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: and join us on these trips. UM. So there's there's

862
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 1: definitely an abundance of ways to get involved. Yeah, And

863
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 1: it's just important to realize what's important to you and

864
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: how you want to use your time and resources. Um,

865
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 1: in terms of you know, do you want to work

866
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:44,800
Speaker 1: on saving grillas to you know, want to help with STBV.

867
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 1: I mean there's thousands and thousands of different groups out

868
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 1: there who each help in their own little teeny way. Yeah.

869
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 1: And also I think just like keeping the conversation alive

870
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: goes a long way too. As a society, there are

871
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,280
Speaker 1: certain topics that we kind of shy away from talking

872
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: about just because it makes people uncomfortable or whatever. Sometimes

873
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 1: when I mentioned instances of like sexual assault that happened

874
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 1: to me, like a lot of my guy friends are like,

875
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 1: what that happens? And it's like, yes, I'm a woman, um,

876
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: But like, you know, keeping that topic alive, like bringing

877
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: awareness to it, not just as people who live in

878
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 1: the West, but like, you know, did you know that

879
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,439
Speaker 1: in Congo blah blah blah happens or in this other

880
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: part of the world blah blah blah happens, And like

881
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: what are we doing about it? You know, if if

882
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 1: you keep it in someone's you know, like the back

883
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 1: of someone's mind, like, and they happen to be in

884
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:40,280
Speaker 1: a position where they can do something like influence policy

885
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,880
Speaker 1: in any way. You really never know when some of

886
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 1: these topics and connections may come in hendy, Yeah, I mean,

887
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: and another part that reminded me is um eve in

888
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 1: slur with vagina monologues. It came out of the drc

889
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 1: UM that's where she originally worked with Dr mccoigey. So,

890
00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 1: I mean even that has standard that conversation in a

891
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 1: little bit awesome. Yeah. So one of the things we

892
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: we ask as you've been sharing with what you do,

893
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 1: I can see I would say it's very stressful. It

894
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: can be very stressful over apps. What are things you

895
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 1: do to take care of yourselves? Actually, so I'm not

896
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:26,359
Speaker 1: very good at this. My strategy for coping is just

897
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,919
Speaker 1: to keep myself as busy as possible, to the point

898
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 1: where I don't have any time to dwell. Um So, like,

899
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 1: I finished my contracting Afghanistan a few weeks ago, and

900
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 1: since then I've just been on the road NonStop. And

901
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 1: in fact I'm calling you from Modova right now, so

902
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 1: we appreciate it. And the day appter tomorrow I'll be

903
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:49,240
Speaker 1: doing the medical like a polar medical train anything in Norway,

904
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 1: and then I'll go back to the U S. And

905
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 1: then literally the day after I get back, I go

906
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 1: straight to work. So my strategy, which personally works for

907
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 1: me but I can't prescribe to anyone else, is that

908
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 1: I keep itself literally so busy that I don't have

909
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 1: any time to dwell at anything else. Yeah. Um, And

910
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 1: I mean I think this is a huge problem. Um,

911
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: you know with medical professionals, even in the United States,

912
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:15,240
Speaker 1: even that don't you know, adventure to any other place.

913
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:19,280
Speaker 1: And so I think that's another huge topic that needs

914
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 1: to be discussed, you know, because I don't think we

915
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 1: do a very good job as a culture. UM. I

916
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: certainly spent twenty years in the emergency room and reached

917
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:32,320
Speaker 1: a burnout phase and um, and had to leave bedside

918
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 1: nursing for a while because of that problem. So, you know,

919
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:40,360
Speaker 1: recognizing that it is a real thing, that it affects everybody. UM.

920
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: And it may not hit you on the call or

921
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 1: the situation or the mission that you think it's going to,

922
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 1: but you know something else it's gonna hit you then. UM.

923
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 1: So recognizing it and just as we suggested with you know,

924
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 1: the women in the drc sking, I think it's important

925
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 1: for us to talk that it happens to every and

926
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 1: absolutely I think so, you know, we should normalize conversation

927
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 1: about these types of issues. Like people are not comfortable

928
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 1: talking about the state of their mental health because they're like, oh,

929
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,839
Speaker 1: if I mentioned that I'm having, you know, feeling down

930
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 1: or suicide whatever, like, are my friends going to call

931
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:17,879
Speaker 1: the cops and of or whatever? Because I've definitely had

932
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 1: that happened to my friends and I've even had it

933
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 1: happened to me, you know. But like, I think we

934
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 1: should be more open about talking about these things, and

935
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 1: we shouldn't sort of like assume everyone who talks about

936
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:33,479
Speaker 1: it is in some kind of dire emergency state. Maybe

937
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 1: they just want someone to vent to, maybe they just

938
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 1: needed to get this off their chance, and if you

939
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 1: just listen to them, I was like, yeah, dude, like

940
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:42,359
Speaker 1: that freaking sucks. No, I mean that makes perfect sense,

941
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 1: because you know, I know that I walked into the

942
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: er one day to work and um was crying hysterically

943
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: and told a friend, you know, I want to kill

944
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 1: myself right now. Um. And so then of course it

945
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 1: became a huge issue, and as she said, you know,

946
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 1: police and all that were involved, and it was just

947
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 1: I was burned out and could no longer watch in

948
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 1: a parade of car accidents and guns shooting victims come

949
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,320
Speaker 1: in the door an along. I actually so like I

950
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 1: joke about sort of maybe like some people consider morbid,

951
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: but like I joke about sort of morbid topics a

952
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 1: lot like. I recently made a post that was like,

953
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 1: does anyone get this feeling where it's like, I'm not

954
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 1: trying to actively kill myself, but like if I walked

955
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 1: on a grenade, or you know, if I stepped on

956
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 1: a landline or a grenade landed in my lab, I

957
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 1: wouldn't exactly be mad um. And like a ton of

958
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: people actually like message me privately, I was like, dude, yeah,

959
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 1: I know exactly how you feel. And I think so

960
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:40,359
Speaker 1: many of us it's not that we're necessarily just like suicidal,

961
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:44,280
Speaker 1: but we have these kind of like self destructive, realistic

962
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:46,359
Speaker 1: feelings and we have no outlet for it because we're

963
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:51,479
Speaker 1: so afraid of being ousted. Do you know what I mean? Yeah,

964
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:55,800
Speaker 1: I completely agree. We've talked about that many, many, many

965
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 1: times on this show. Burnout and especially especially in the

966
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: medical profession and yeah, so yeah, normalizing it. It's definitely

967
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:09,280
Speaker 1: something we should be doing and hopefully moving that way. Okay,

968
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 1: so what are now that you've done this assessment mission?

969
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 1: What are the next steps? What happens now? So now

970
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 1: we have UM the thirty plus advisor groups that are

971
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:26,240
Speaker 1: medical professionals mostly psychiatrists from you know, places like Harvard, Columbia,

972
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 1: Mount Sinai, UM, other prestigious universities and medical centers that

973
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 1: are doing telehealth education providers in the DRC to help

974
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:40,919
Speaker 1: them learn how to address some issues. We're trying to

975
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: gather a supply of medicines to provide them also, but

976
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:46,319
Speaker 1: that's you know, a little bit harder, but UM at

977
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 1: least teaching them how to assess, um diagnose and then

978
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: treat people at a very basic level. Yeah, I think so.

979
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:59,879
Speaker 1: Our long term goal with this project is to sort

980
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:03,359
Speaker 1: like be able to build up the local indigenous capacity,

981
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 1: like help them help themselves, like teach the trainer or

982
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:09,359
Speaker 1: train the trainer initiatives if you will, UM, And with

983
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 1: these like weeklier monthly engagements, hopefully we can build up

984
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:15,800
Speaker 1: the capacity and then those people can take their training

985
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:19,719
Speaker 1: to other communities and be able to deliver that information

986
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 1: there and you know, it is a bit of a

987
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 1: lofty goal um in a place like Congo, but we're

988
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:29,319
Speaker 1: i think, pretty optimistic about it. And you know, of

989
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:33,240
Speaker 1: course there's always the potential for future teams to GOUM,

990
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:36,399
Speaker 1: particularly like working in clinical psychology, like a little more

991
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 1: on hands training, like bringing up these community champions um

992
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 1: and giving them not only like the in person tools

993
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:45,840
Speaker 1: that they need, but maybe also sort of like some

994
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 1: of the clinical knowledge like prescriptions or like pharmacology and

995
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:53,400
Speaker 1: stuff like that. That brings us to the end of

996
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 1: our interview, but we do have a little bit more

997
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 1: for you listeners, but first we have one more break

998
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:13,360
Speaker 1: for work from our sponsor and we're back. Thank you sponsor.

999
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 1: And we did want to end on some positive things

1000
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 1: on the horizon for the d r C that will

1001
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 1: hopefully improve the sex and gender based violence going on there.

1002
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:26,360
Speaker 1: One thing is getting more women in positions of power.

1003
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 1: To that end, in a group of NGOs and their

1004
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 1: local partners formed a movement called Nothing Without the Women

1005
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 1: to advocate for the Parody Act to get more women

1006
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 1: involved in all aspects of public life, although it did

1007
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 1: not come with specifics, and to push for a law

1008
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 1: that required at least one woman be listed on electoral

1009
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 1: ballots or the ballot cannot be registered. They received over

1010
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 1: two hundred thousand signatures after a march that drew more

1011
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 1: than six thousand people. The Parody Act was signed that

1012
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:56,560
Speaker 1: same year, which is awesome. So just a little history

1013
00:55:56,680 --> 00:56:00,399
Speaker 1: of the Congolese women and politics. So cong As women

1014
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:03,800
Speaker 1: are not effectively represented and have never really participated in

1015
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 1: the governance of the countries ninety which is the year

1016
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:09,319
Speaker 1: of the independence of the country, no woman has ever

1017
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:12,240
Speaker 1: been head of State or head of government slash Prime minister,

1018
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 1: which neither have they in the US. So there's that

1019
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 1: um and there are a lot of reasons behind the

1020
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 1: lack of participation from women, including the mere family responsibility

1021
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:24,840
Speaker 1: and sometimes the general fear in running for leadership. Although

1022
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:28,720
Speaker 1: women constituted six of the DRC electorate, the current overall

1023
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 1: representation of women is only seven point two In the

1024
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:35,279
Speaker 1: high positions of recently established institutions Parliament as well as

1025
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 1: in the government. The DRC Government, National Assembly and major

1026
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 1: institutions are all essentially run by men. Ironically, several of

1027
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,359
Speaker 1: the organizations that are for women and support women are

1028
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 1: largely run by men. As well, and according to sources

1029
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:50,239
Speaker 1: right now, there's no woman member of the Office of

1030
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 1: the Senate and there's only one woman among the seven

1031
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 1: members of the Office of the National Assembly. Out of

1032
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:59,280
Speaker 1: the eight senators are only six women. There are forty

1033
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 1: three elected out of five d elected members of the

1034
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 1: DRC National Assembly. Out of the forty five members of

1035
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:07,799
Speaker 1: the government, there are only five women, of which four

1036
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 1: ministers and one vice minister. And there's no woman governor

1037
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 1: or vice governor of the eleven current provinces of the Republic.

1038
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 1: Getting more women in politics is really important for several reasons.

1039
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 1: Several things we touched on, one being finding from the

1040
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,560
Speaker 1: International Peace Institute that when women are included in peace

1041
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 1: talks the chance of lasting peace goes up by thirty

1042
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 1: and also having women's spearhead these movements or laws around

1043
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 1: women's issues just kind of makes sense, right And as

1044
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 1: we know as we were having the interview with both

1045
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 1: Kim and Coco, there are women that are gathering together

1046
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:49,120
Speaker 1: and it's incredible what you can see when women gather together.

1047
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 1: So hopefully we'll see even bigger progress. Shoot, they might

1048
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:56,840
Speaker 1: exceed us on some levels, absolutely, and we wanted to

1049
00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 1: end on this quote from Justine must Eca Byamba from

1050
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 1: The Guardian, we do not see ourselves as the rate

1051
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 1: capital of the world. Instead, I agree with Liberia's Noble

1052
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:12,280
Speaker 1: Prize Laureate Lie Matt Wilbe, who called my nation the

1053
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 1: world capital of sisterhood and solidarity. Congolese women have decided

1054
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 1: to take our feature into our hands. We have few resources,

1055
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 1: but we have an enormous amount of know how. It

1056
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 1: really does seem like they do just in the conversations

1057
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 1: and the glowing love that Coco Income had for that community.

1058
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:33,320
Speaker 1: That sounds a powerful, powerful group of women, very much so,

1059
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 1: and it was so worthwhile to to have this conversation.

1060
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 1: We would love to have further conversations. Um. I know

1061
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:43,040
Speaker 1: frequently we focus on the United States because they're based

1062
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 1: in the United States, but we don't want to be

1063
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 1: limited in that scope. So yes emails send us suggestions

1064
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:53,120
Speaker 1: of what issues around the world we should be talking about,

1065
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 1: and you can send those to our email at Stuff Media,

1066
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 1: mom Stuff at ihartmeia dot com. You can also find

1067
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 1: us on social media on Twitter at Moms offt podcast

1068
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 1: or on Instagram at stuff I Never Told You. Thanks

1069
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:09,920
Speaker 1: as always to our super producer Andrew Howard, thank you.

1070
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 1: Thanks to our guest Cam and Coco, thank you, and

1071
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:16,440
Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening stuff. I've never told you

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Speaker 1: the protection of iHeart Radios how stuff works. For more

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Speaker 1: podcast on iHeart Radio is the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,