1 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:11,479 Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature Feature production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host 2 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: of Mini Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, 3 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: and today on the show, it's another listener questions episode. 4 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: This one I am particularly excited about. I went down 5 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: a rabbit hole. First, some amazing questions that I got 6 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: from you guys. I always love these because these send 7 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: me on research journeys. And so if you hear these questions, 8 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: you're like, wait a minute, I have a question and 9 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: I want to hear the answer to it. Well, you 10 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: can always email me at Creature Feature Pod at gmail 11 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: dot com and I will answer your question. So let's 12 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: get right into it. First listener question, Hey, Katie, this 13 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: blew my mind. So this listener sent me a link 14 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: to a YouTube video by Ben Jordan. Ben Jordan's channels 15 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 1: seems to be devoted to music things about music, technical 16 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: things and you know, interesting stories about music and sounds, 17 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: sound production and so cool stuff. Let's look into what 18 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: this listener email is actually about. So the linked YouTube 19 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: video that was sent to me by this listener is 20 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: about animal perception and about how animals view the world. 21 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: And in the video you see these this approximation of 22 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: how animals see things or hear things, and the thesis 23 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: of the video is basically that animals experience life sometimes 24 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: slower or faster than human beings. So like maybe a 25 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: dog experiences things like kind of slowed down, where as 26 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 1: something like a cat might experience things sort of sped 27 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: up to a certain degree. So the listener asks me, 28 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: is this true? Is Ben's fascinating study on animal perception 29 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: a bit too visual centric or is this on the 30 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: right track. The most fascinating part to me is that 31 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,119 Speaker 1: a lizard could adjust its perception of time by adjusting 32 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,920 Speaker 1: its metabolism depending on what's needed. Also, the facts that 33 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: apparently elephants see us buzz along super fast as they 34 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: watch weather patterns developing. Would love to learn more about 35 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: what biologists know about this. And this is from p K. 36 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:48,559 Speaker 1: So I watched this video and I found it very interesting, 37 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: And so the question is is this video accurate? Is 38 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 1: this actually how animals perceive the world, Maybe like dog 39 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: seeing things kind of more slowly than humans, or an 40 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: elephant seeing things really slow, so we kind of just 41 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: or elephants seeing things sped up, So humans just kind 42 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: of flitting around like we're like we're flies or something. 43 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: So this kind of time time difference in terms of 44 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: how animals perceive time. Of course, I think what this 45 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: YouTuber is doing is he's trying to approximate things. I 46 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: don't think he's making any big claims that he absolutely 47 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: knows what animal how animals perceive the world, but he's 48 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: trying to sort of do a representation of how they 49 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: might see things or hear things based on a concept 50 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: known as critical flicker fusion rates. So what is critical 51 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: flicker fusion rate? I looked into this, looked into what 52 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: biol just had to say about this, what bird researchers, 53 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: sound experts, and physicists had to say about this whole 54 00:03:55,720 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: idea of animals perception of time. So biologist doctor Kevin 55 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: Healey I was interviewed by the BBC four channel in 56 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: a segment called a Sense of Time, which I highly 57 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: recommend if you are interested in learning more about this topic. 58 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: So what is flicker fusion rate? So flicker fusion rate 59 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: is the rate at which you can see flashes of light. Essentially, 60 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 1: so flashing a light to see a what point you 61 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 1: stop being able to differentiate between flashes and then at 62 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: what point, those flashes actually fuse into a single beam, 63 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: or at least they fuse in your brain, so it's 64 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: still flashing. The light is still flashing, but your brain 65 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: can only perceive it as a steady light because it's 66 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: going too fast for you to perceive the difference between flashes. 67 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: So if you flash a light slowly, you can see it. Right. 68 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: Even if you flash light relatively quickly like a strobe light, 69 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: we can see that. We can see that flashing. But 70 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: if you flash it way way too quickly, we will 71 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: stop being able to perceive it as flashing, and it's 72 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: just going to look like a steady light. So humans 73 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: can see at around sixty frames per second, but above 74 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: that we can't see the flashes. It just looks like 75 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: constant light to us. So I looked into what evolutionary 76 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: biologist doctor Kevin Heally had to say about animals critical 77 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: flicker fusion. Right, So he was interviewed by the BBC 78 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,239 Speaker 1: four channel in a segment called a Sense of Time, 79 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 1: which I highly recommend if you're interested in learning more 80 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 1: about this topic. So, different animals have different critical flicker 81 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 1: fusion rates. Some are higher and some are lower than humans. 82 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: So certain deep sea fish species can only see about 83 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: one to two frames per second, so you can be 84 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 1: moving around, but to this fish it would be like 85 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: a slide show. Pied flycatchers, a type of bird, can 86 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: see around one hundred and forty five frames per second, 87 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: so this is well over twice the number of frames 88 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: per second. Then we could see something like a blowfly 89 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: can see around two hundred frames per second, which is 90 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 1: bananas bonkers. And so if you wonder, like why can't 91 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: I swat a fly? Fly can see things coming and 92 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 1: process things quickly, so our fast movements to them, they 93 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 1: can actually process that. They can see our movements and 94 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 1: you know, quite quite easily. But one of the downsides 95 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 1: to this really high frame rate is actually that they 96 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 1: when you move slower, it's really hard for them to 97 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: perceive that movement. So really slow movement is going to 98 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 1: be super super slow to them, and it may not 99 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: even come off as movement to them. So like you 100 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: may find that trying to catch a fly, if you 101 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: try to swat it quickly, it doesn't work, but if 102 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: you very slowly, calmly grab it, it doesn't even realize 103 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: that you are going for it. So you know, the 104 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: question of why certain animals have different critical flicker fusion 105 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: rates than others. Why wouldn't we all just have really 106 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: fast flicker fusion rates so we could all see things 107 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: happening at this faster rate, meaning that like the ideas 108 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: that maybe if you can see things at this faster rate, 109 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: right like two hundred frames per second, you can perceive 110 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: a lot more and your ability to react to it 111 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: may be enhanced or something. Well, having super fast eyesight 112 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: costs a lot of energy and brain processing, so it 113 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: doesn't really make sense to have for all animals, and 114 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: it's not so like something that may seem useful right 115 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: to all animals to have, Well, it's costly, and you 116 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: can get by with a slower flicker fusion rate if 117 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: you have cognitive processes that allow you to do other things. 118 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: So it is or if you have a bigger body, 119 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: for instance, like a fly has a very tiny body, 120 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: very simple brain, and so its ability to avoid getting 121 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:37,839 Speaker 1: eaten by any number of frogs, reptiles, birds, every basically 122 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: everything wants to eat these guys. Being able to have that, 123 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: you know, that high level of perception being a little 124 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: see two hundred frames per second, Being able to have 125 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: that kind of like bullet time. It maybe really really 126 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:58,599 Speaker 1: valuable to it it's survival because it's so small and 127 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: such a tasty snack for everything. Interestingly, some animals can 128 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: actually turn up and turn down the flicker fusion rate 129 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 1: as if going into bullet time, like Neo from the Matrix. 130 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 1: So swordfish can do this by heating up an organ 131 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: near their eye, which can increase their flicker fusion rate, 132 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: which they might do while hunting to improve their performance. 133 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: So it's like Keanu Reeves, but a fish. So according 134 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: to physicist Carlo Rovelli as well as evolutionary biologist doctor 135 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: Kevin Healey, the idea that animals perceive time differently is 136 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: not so bizarre. So time is not time is a 137 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: thing in physics, but the perception of time happens in 138 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: the brains. So the perception of time is not an objective, 139 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: physics based universal truth. It's based on the biology of 140 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,719 Speaker 1: our brains and how they function, how quickly they can 141 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 1: process the events as they occur, how quickly we can 142 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: process sounds or visuals, how many frames per second our 143 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: brains work in. And you know, both this physicist and 144 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: this evolutionary biologists believe that it is credible that animals 145 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: can perceive time differently. In terms of empirical evidence of this, 146 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: there is, there's some. I mean, it's always hard, right, 147 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: So why you have to keep in mind whenever you're 148 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: thinking about animal perception is we cannot avatar into an 149 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 1: animal head. We can't make an assumption about what it's 150 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: like to be that animal just based on our empirical 151 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 1: observations of this animal. But we can, we can guess, 152 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: we can make these estimates. So some empirical evidence on 153 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: this biological time slovidone is actually in birdsong. So bird's 154 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: song is lovely, sometimes it's shrill, and sometimes it sounds unpleasant, 155 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: just like sort of chaotic screaming. But when you slow 156 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: down birdsong sometimes you can perceive more notes than you 157 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,439 Speaker 1: were able to with birdsong being played in real time. 158 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: So birdsong has many more notes per second than our 159 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: human brains can process. And when we slow down the birdsong, 160 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: we actually can hear more of the notes. And so 161 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: Bob Dueling, an auditory scientist at the University of Maryland, 162 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: as well as Norah Prior, who is a postdoc researcher 163 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:43,319 Speaker 1: on birds talked on this BBC four program about whether 164 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: birds can hear more, can hear more in the birdsong 165 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: than humans, So like when you slow it down, there 166 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: are more notes, But does this mean that birds can 167 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: actually perceive these greater number of notes? So their research 168 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: on birds do indicate that birds can just doing these 169 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: subtle changes within a single note that humans can't. So 170 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,839 Speaker 1: these birds may be able to distinguish these notes by 171 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: perceiving things slower than a human with that higher critical 172 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: flicker fusion rights. So yeah, I would say that it's 173 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: always going to be hard to know exactly, Like I 174 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 1: don't I imagine that when you have such a different brain, right, 175 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: you're an animal, you have a very different brain imagining 176 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: the world is Just like when we look at these 177 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,959 Speaker 1: videos that Ben Jordan made, which I think are it's 178 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 1: a really interesting video and I'm not I don't want 179 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: to be too critical of it because I think it's 180 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: really fascinated and he presents the information really well. I 181 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: think that like when you the problem, right is that 182 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: we are looking at a video that's been slowed down 183 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: or sped up, or you know, the colors changed, the 184 00:12:56,280 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: sounds changed. To kind of estimate what this animals perception 185 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: is based on, you know, some math based on their 186 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: flicker fusion rate, the frames per second that they can 187 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: hear or see in. But we are a human being 188 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: with our human brain looking at a video, So we're 189 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: filtering all of this information through our human brain and 190 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: trying to imagine what that is like as a dog, 191 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 1: as a cat, as a fish, as a reptile, and 192 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: so that it's it's we're kind of trapped in a 193 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: prison of our own brains, so we can't directly experience 194 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: what it's like to be that animal. So we can't 195 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: ever really know what is that direct experience of that 196 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: animal and what amount of it is being filtered through 197 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 1: our human brain. Looking at this video of going like, oh, 198 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: it's kind of like if I'm a dog, it's kind 199 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: of like I live in this like blue and gray, 200 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: blue and gray and brown world with like humans, but 201 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 1: the humans are kind of moving a little slower and 202 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:01,559 Speaker 1: their voices are slowed down. Well maybe, but it's also 203 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: again that's been filtered through our human brains, our human cognition. 204 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: But I would say, you know, I think it is 205 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: very plausible, very very plausible that animals. I mean, first 206 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: of all, I do think animals are conscious and experience things, 207 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: And so I think that this idea that animals could 208 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: sort of experience things in this maybe slowed down experience 209 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: or something like an elephant would perceive things as kind 210 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: of like flittering around a little faster. Yeah, I think 211 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: that's very credible. It's something we I don't know if 212 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: we'll ever have the technology to know exactly what it's 213 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: like to be in an animal brain, because how do 214 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: we escape the prison of our own brains? But it 215 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: is really fascinating and I love that question. So we're 216 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: going to take a quick break, but when we get back, 217 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: we are going to actually talk more about bird song. 218 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: So we are back, and speaking of birds, I have 219 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: another listener question, a short and a sweet one with 220 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: a long and hopefully also sweet answer. Why can some 221 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: birds imitate human voices and other birds don't? Our pigeons 222 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: and sparrows not smart enough? Or is there an anatomical reason? 223 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: Thanks sincerely, Stephen High Sincerely, Stephen, As you've guessed, both 224 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: brain and the vocal structures are involved in being able 225 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: to mimic human voices in birds. So when you think 226 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: about it, like our brains are the software and the 227 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: hardware are things like our larynx. For birds, this is 228 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: actually the syrinx. So birds who are able to mimic 229 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: human voices have to have both the right physical structure, 230 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: so the hardware of the syrinx that's the bird version 231 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: of a larynx, and they have to have the right 232 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: cognitive ability is the right software. So a bird's ability 233 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: to remember different songs or bird calls is a repertoire. 234 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: Birds vary in their complexity of repertoire size. There are 235 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: some birds like thrashes that have a wide repertoire of 236 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: complex songs, whereas maybe a bird like a seagull has 237 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: different calls for sure, and these calls can be complex 238 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: and that they mean different things, but they don't have 239 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: the number of like different songs different calls is say 240 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: a thrush or something like a brown thrasher, which is 241 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: a songbird that has thousands of different songs. So a 242 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: wide repertoire, however, doesn't mean a bird is like the 243 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: smartest bird or even the best able to mimic human speech. 244 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: So a raven, for instance, has a smaller repertoire than 245 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: something like a brown thrasher, but ravens that were studied 246 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 1: had around a dozen calls versus like the hundreds or 247 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:09,439 Speaker 1: even thousands of songs that a songbird can memorize. However, 248 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: ravens are very very intelligent, they're great puzzle solvers, they're 249 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: highly social, and ravens can actually mimic human speech, whereas 250 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: a thrasher can't. So corvids including ravens, but other other 251 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 1: types of birds such as parrots. There are also starling's, 252 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 1: lyre birds and minas. These all can mimic human speech. 253 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,719 Speaker 1: There may also be other species of birds who can 254 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: mimic human speech, but they just don't spend enough time 255 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,399 Speaker 1: around humans for us to really see that. So what 256 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:47,159 Speaker 1: sets apart the birds that can mimic human speech from 257 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: the birds who can't? So also, I want to look 258 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: at why birds can mimic human language but something like 259 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: our closest relatives like chimpanzees or binobos can't, because it 260 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: seems like they should be able to write. They have 261 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: brains more similar to ours, They have larynxes more similar 262 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: to ours. They have lips, But whereas a bird doesn't 263 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 1: have a lips, doesn't have a lipts, they don't have lips. 264 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 1: Birds don't have lips, So what is going on. So 265 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 1: let's look at parrots first. Parrots are a really good 266 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 1: example of a bird who's very good at mimicking human speech, 267 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: and they have a few things going for them. It's 268 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 1: the syrinx and tongue structure in terms of their hardware. 269 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: So parrots have really strong tongues that can manipulate sounds, 270 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: and the muscles controlling their synx are concentrated around this 271 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: single tube before the seringx branches off into these two 272 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: bronchial structures, and so this makes it a little more 273 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: similar in structure and functionality to a human larynx than 274 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:57,360 Speaker 1: a lot of birds who have whose muscles in their 275 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: serings are sort of more concentrated where the se splits 276 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: off into these two tubes. So you know, they have 277 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:09,679 Speaker 1: the hardware to be able to mimic human speech, and corvids, 278 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: liar birds, starlings, and mina's are also they also have 279 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: hardware to greater less extent in terms of like being 280 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 1: able to mimic human voices. I think parents are, like, 281 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 1: I mean, it's kind of arguable, like who's the best. 282 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: I guess parents are sort of the best at doing 283 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: it strictly speaking, But yeah, all those other birds do 284 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 1: have the hardware where they can to some capacity mimic 285 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: human voices. So now let's talk about the software the brain, 286 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: so repertoire size, the number of songs that a bird 287 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: can learn, like I mentioned before, doesn't necessarily mean that 288 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: a bird is the smartest or able to mimic things 289 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: the best. So a lot of this has to do 290 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: with how birds learn songs and sort of the may 291 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 1: it's maybe line, maybe they're born with it. So a 292 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:07,919 Speaker 1: lot of songbirds will indeed learn songs, but they could 293 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: be optimized to learn songs of their own species. And 294 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 1: this is useful because learning the songs of their own 295 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: species their conspecific so conspecific means a member of your 296 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 1: own species helps them do things like mate or defend territory. 297 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: There are birds, a lot of birds actually, that are 298 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:33,880 Speaker 1: innate singers, so they are born with being able to 299 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 1: recognize their own species songs and able to sing it. 300 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: And there's a lot of sort of gray area here. 301 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: There are birds who are born with the innatability to sing, 302 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: but by hearing it and sort of practicing it, they 303 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: get better at it. There's some birds who are born 304 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: basically with the structure these these sort of template structures 305 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: that enable them to better learn and hear their own 306 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: species songs, but they actually have to learn this larger repertoire. 307 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: So it's this really interesting I mean, bird's song is 308 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 1: studied a lot by like linguists, by cognitive scientists because 309 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 1: the language acquisition of birds, or the song acquisition of 310 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: birds is very interesting in terms of this some of 311 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:25,120 Speaker 1: it being an innate characteristic they're born with this programming, 312 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: and then some of it being learned this like plasticity, 313 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: or they have to learn things listen, practice, develop muscle memory. 314 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,120 Speaker 1: So it's really really interesting and complex area of research. 315 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: So some songbirds are selected for a large repertoire, which 316 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: may help males attract females mates. It could also help 317 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: to then territory. Sometimes both males and females also sing 318 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: to each other, but often songbirds like these, these mating 319 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: songs can become very complicated. They can get these large repertoires, 320 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: and there could be a fitness reason for why females 321 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: like larger repertoires, where maybe it indicates a males more fit, 322 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: but it could also be an example of runaway selection. 323 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: So we know with birds they are often selected for 324 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: their beauty for these amazing ornamentations on birds, which doesn't 325 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: necessarily translate to fitness, like in terms of being able 326 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,160 Speaker 1: to you know, survive better. A bird with a huge 327 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,640 Speaker 1: tail is not necessarily going to be better at flying. 328 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: In fact, sometimes it hinders these birds. But the females 329 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: really like these signals, and so this is potentially an 330 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,919 Speaker 1: example of runaway evolution where there's some reason that this 331 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: female is drawn to or notice is better the males 332 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: that develop these greater repertoires, and then because the females 333 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: are drawn to it, it's selected for more, until like 334 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: it's more and more and more and more complex, just 335 00:22:55,680 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 1: like you have in terms of bird ornamentation, like large 336 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:05,719 Speaker 1: repertoires are the sort of auditory version of peacocks in 337 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 1: terms of that amazing splendid visual display that they do 338 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: for females. So this is all basically the complexity of 339 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,360 Speaker 1: the birds repertoire is due to selective pressures, and some 340 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: birds may not have the same selective pressures, so they 341 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: may not need a larger repertoire, but they may need 342 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: a lot of cognitive skills to figure things out. Like 343 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: parrots are highly social and they have to maybe get 344 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: nuts or grubs out of tree. So they have these 345 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,479 Speaker 1: like these you know, good cognitive skills. It's just not 346 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: based on like having this wide song repertoire. But birds 347 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 1: like parrots, liar birds, even birds like mocking birds or 348 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: birds like corvids may have a more of more plasticity, 349 00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 1: so they're able to learn and mimic sounds that are 350 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 1: not necessarily just their own species sounds, and so they 351 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: have more flexibility in the kinds of sounds that they 352 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: can learn, even though they don't maybe have the capacity 353 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: to learn the like thousands of songs that songbird may 354 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: be able to learn. They have more flexibility. They aren't 355 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: sort of preprogrammed with this framework that is specific to 356 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 1: types of songs that are unique to their species. So 357 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: something like a liarbird can mimic a variety of sounds 358 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:41,120 Speaker 1: like lawnmowers or a camera shutter. So like these kinds 359 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: of this kind of like plasticity in terms of being 360 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: able to mimic a sound that does not come from 361 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: its own species is something that was selected for in 362 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,360 Speaker 1: these birds but maybe not in songbirds. And in addition, 363 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: these birds with the more plasticity are have the hardware 364 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: of the hardware ability to produce these sounds. And so 365 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 1: think about it, like if you hooked a game Boy 366 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,199 Speaker 1: that was loaded with like Super Mario Brothers cartridge, and 367 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: you hooked that up to a set of speakers. The speakers, 368 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: which is like the syrinx or larynx, could technically play 369 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: the sound of a violin if a iPod was hooked 370 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: up to it. I guess people don't use iPods anymore. 371 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: It's all iPhones now, I'm so old. So but these 372 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: speakers could play a sound of a violin, but not 373 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: when a game Boy with Super Mario Brothers is plugged 374 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 1: into the speakers, it is only going to play Super 375 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: Mario Brothers sounds, whereas like if you plugged in a 376 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: computer to the speakers, it could play basically anything. So 377 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 1: this is probably this is like the difference between these 378 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: like different birds in terms of these sounds. They're able 379 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: to produce a mimic. Of course, if you plugged in 380 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:57,919 Speaker 1: like a computer to something like a you know, I 381 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: don't know, gramophone, it's not I mean, that's not going 382 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: to work. That's not how computers is. I'm not a 383 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: computers professor, but I know that's not how computers is anyways, 384 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: you get the idea. It's both hardware and software. So 385 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,360 Speaker 1: birds that can mimic human sounds have the unique brains 386 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 1: that are plastic enough and good at learning novel sounds, 387 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,199 Speaker 1: plus the hardware such that they can actually mimic our 388 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,679 Speaker 1: human words. But why can't something like a chimpanzee do it? 389 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 1: So it has this smart chimp brain and a larynx 390 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: that's more similar to our own. So why could something 391 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: like a parrot mimic human speech but a chimpanzee can't. 392 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: So it's not about intelligence. It's not that parrots are 393 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 1: smarter than chimps, or chimps are smarter than parrots, you know. 394 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: Like again, like animal intelligence is somewhat relative, and it 395 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: depends on what that intelligence is geared towards. So chimpanzees 396 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: are very intelligent, but their intelligence is directed in a 397 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: specific way that is advantageous to them. And so in 398 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: the same way that a human is very intelligent, But 399 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: we can't slow down time in the way that maybe 400 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: a blowfly can. It doesn't mean the blowfly is smarter 401 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: than us. It just means that the blowfli's brain has 402 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 1: to put a priority on a high frame rate so 403 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 1: that it can react quickly, whereas with humans, we don't 404 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,719 Speaker 1: need that high frame rate to function in our brains 405 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 1: are more geared towards cognitive processing, learning, puzzle solving, social interaction, 406 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 1: so very complex stuff. Just it's a different type of 407 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: intelligence and it is geared in a different way. And 408 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: so chimpanzees lack the brain structure to learn speech outside 409 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:56,679 Speaker 1: of the chimpanzee vocalizations, whereas a bird like a liar 410 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: bird or a parrot does have the brain structures that 411 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 1: are optimized to learn and mimic sounds. So it's thought 412 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 1: that humans and close human ancestors had genetic mutations that 413 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: allowed us to learn specific syntax and develop language. So 414 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: human language is really unique because while birds are able 415 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: to have a syntactical structure, there's not much evidence that 416 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: they can learn language and use it in the same 417 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: symbolic way that we do, where words have these nested 418 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 1: meanings and you can put words together to form sentences 419 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: that means something different, and put sentences together to mean 420 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: something that forms something even more different. So this kind 421 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: of like nesting of concepts within words seems to be 422 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: quite unique to human language, So there are there is 423 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 1: some evidence that something really smart, like an African gray parrot, 424 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 1: which is one of the more intelligent of the bird species, 425 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,479 Speaker 1: and it can talk. They can see to make some 426 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: associations between words and objects, so they can potentially learn 427 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: what the name of an object is or even learn 428 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: to differentiate between like what a plastic object is versus 429 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: what a felt object is. But there's kind of a 430 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: debate to what extent they understand the meanings of words 431 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: and language, and their ability to kind of have this 432 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: extent to which we nest concepts, putting a concept inside 433 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: a concept inside a concept seems pretty unique to humans. Dogs, 434 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: for instance, can learn to associate words with like a 435 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: toy or food, or going outside or the v et, 436 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: but it doesn't necessarily mean they have the capacity to 437 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 1: understand language in the same way that humans can. They 438 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: have associated a specific sound with a specific meaning, which 439 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: sounds like, well, hey, that's just a word, right, But really, 440 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 1: our human language is a lot more complex in terms 441 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: of how we fit a lot of concepts inside, say 442 00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: a word, and then it has a lot of re 443 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: related concepts, and we're able to kind of do this 444 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: modular as symboling of language and words to give them 445 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: new meaning. And that's quite unique, and that's quite special. 446 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: It does, I think, make us a little bit different 447 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: from other animals, even animals that can communicate. That's not 448 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,479 Speaker 1: to say that animal communication is not complex. It's just 449 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: ours is quite ridiculously, ridiculously complex. So we are going 450 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: to take a quick break, and then when we get back, 451 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: we're going to answer some of our listener questions. Okay, 452 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: so I am back, and this one is actually more 453 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: of a story that I am going to share because 454 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: it was I think very interesting. And so here is 455 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: this listener's story. Hi, Katie, thank you so much for 456 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: the hours of animal entertainment. Your podcast brings me so 457 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: much joy and education. I'm a dork and harass my 458 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: fellow employees with animal facts, and I've learned that I've 459 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: learned from your show. I just got done with your 460 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: drunken Animal part of your listener Maile episode. Here's my 461 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: intoxicated animal story. I have a fifty pound pit bull 462 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: and a three pound Chihuahua and a sixty pound Dingo 463 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: shepherd mix. Yes I did say dingo, and yes we 464 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: did do a DNA test, and yes, she was very strange. 465 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: She had oscillating wrists and an intense devotion to me, 466 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: and ended up being my service animal due to her 467 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: ability to sense when I was going to have an 468 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: epileptic seizure. But to my point, we lived in a 469 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: mobile home with a gas furnace, water heater, and a 470 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: neighbor that had an overhanging apple tree. My wife and 471 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: I had really bad headaches one evening, and the Pity 472 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: and the chihuahua started acting strange and falling while they walked. 473 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: The dingo seemed fine, loll The dingo slept in a 474 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 1: cold area of the house because she was tough, but 475 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: the other two slept near us our heater ducks, even 476 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: if we moved their bed. Our reasoning went to carbon 477 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: monoxide poisoning because of recent gas work done in the home. 478 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: We called the fire department, not knowing fully what was 479 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 1: about to happen. I communicated everything I told you, and 480 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: the fire department told us to leave the house immediately, 481 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: don't open any windows or doors so that they could 482 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 1: test the air quality inside. So me and my wife 483 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: and our dogs, two of which are acting crazy, in 484 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: a smaller trailer park of less than one hundred homes 485 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, an ambulance for humans, one for animals, 486 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: which is rich people's stuff, not for our money. Class 487 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: four police cars, one small fire truck and one ladder truck, 488 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: and a hazmat team with full suit protection and detection gear, 489 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 1: all with lights and sirens blazing. At one thirty am, 490 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: we worked restaurant hours. The hazmat team inspected our home 491 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: and four others while waking up residents to get them 492 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: to evacuate their homes. So now we have twenty to 493 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: twenty five people standing in the street. In November, at 494 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: one thirty eight m the fire department did a full 495 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: inspection for raid on carbon monoxide and dioxide inspections on 496 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: five homes around us. They didn't leave until four thirty am. 497 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: After my wife and I passed every emergency test outside, 498 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 1: they decided to see why our dogs were messed up. 499 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,239 Speaker 1: Turns out that our neighbor's apples had dropped into our 500 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: yard and our greedy dogs got smashed on apples. My 501 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: sweet Lola hated sweet food, so she was fine and 502 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: that's why she indicated to the other two. I don't 503 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: know how many apples the big or little guy must 504 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: have had, but they definitely got drunk. The fire department 505 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: and ambulance and police laughed at the mistake but praised 506 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 1: us for our vigilance about the dangers of carbon monoxide poisoning. 507 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: Plus we got a home inspection for free from the 508 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: hazmat team before we sold the house. Do with that info? 509 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: What chew? Well? And I hope my waisted pit and 510 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,959 Speaker 1: chihuahua story makes you smile. Hope my dogs getting hammered 511 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 1: makes you laugh. Also, just imagine a trailer park in 512 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: the middle of no We're suddenly looking like a chemical explosion, 513 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: where everyone knows your name, lots of questions to be answered. 514 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: Two dogs like sweets, and Lola wanted nothing to do 515 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 1: but take care of her friends. I hope you have 516 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 1: a great day. And I hope I made you laugh 517 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,359 Speaker 1: because your show puts a smile on my face every time. 518 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: Peace Maddie. Gee, that was very, very funny. Yeah, I 519 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: mean that is I would have done the same thing 520 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,320 Speaker 1: you did. I would have been very concerned about carbon 521 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: monoxide if I had been feeling bad and if my 522 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 1: dogs were woozy and acting strange. Yeah, that is scary. 523 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 1: I'm glad it turns out it was just fermented apples 524 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,919 Speaker 1: that your dogs got drunk on. That is incredible. Yeah, 525 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: I mean there are It is funny because like you 526 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,239 Speaker 1: may see an animal acting loopy, and it's scary because 527 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: there are all sorts of things that go through your head, 528 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: like it could be raybies, it could be some kind 529 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:55,400 Speaker 1: of horrible thing happening. But then yeah, on occasion, it 530 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: turns out that they have eaten something fermented and gotten drunk. 531 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: In fact, a lot of these wildlife bird centers have 532 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 1: to deal with birds in the winter who get drunk 533 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: because they eat berries that have been frozen and fermented, 534 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 1: and then they crash into windows and then they have 535 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: to go to kind of a bird drunk tank and 536 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 1: get healed rest up before they get released. So it 537 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 1: does happen. So here's another listener email that is more 538 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: of a story than a question, and this one is 539 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 1: in reference to the pololo worms that we discussed in 540 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: the episode mosh Pit. So to remind you, pololo worms 541 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: are a type of polykeete marine worm that live in 542 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 1: coral reefs, and so they will attach themselves to the 543 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 1: reefs and then when they reach sexual maturity, they actually 544 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,880 Speaker 1: detach their lower obdomens, so they attach their butts, which 545 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,360 Speaker 1: then autonomously swim to the surface. So all these butts 546 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: just like swimming to the surface where they mate with 547 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,760 Speaker 1: the other detached butts in a big soup of reproductive parts. 548 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,800 Speaker 1: If you want to find out more, you should definitely 549 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,240 Speaker 1: check out the mosh Pit episode. But also, these pololo 550 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: worms are a delicacy in certain Pacific island cultures, and 551 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 1: it is the detached part of the worm. The in 552 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,360 Speaker 1: segments of the worm that come up to make that 553 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: are collected as a delicacy. And because these worms actually 554 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: follow a very strict schedule, only appearing at night for 555 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: a couple of hours based on the moon cycle, it's 556 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 1: a rare treat, so keep that in mind for this email. Hi, Katie, 557 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,360 Speaker 1: I was excited to hear you talk about pololo worms 558 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 1: on your mosh Pit episode because I had been meaning 559 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 1: to write to you for ages to see if you 560 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 1: could explain to me what the heck I ate. In 561 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 1: late twenty nineteen, I took a trip to Samoa and 562 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 1: it happened to coincide with the October full moon and 563 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 1: the pololo night. I heard about it for the first 564 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,759 Speaker 1: time while on the island and managed to convince a 565 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 1: local woman I met to let me tag along. It 566 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: helped that I had a higher car so I could 567 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 1: drive her and her friends to the good beach. We 568 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: gathered on the beach in the middle of the night, 569 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 1: and pretty much all of Samo was on the beach, 570 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: just chatting quietly and making last minute repairs to their nets, 571 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,320 Speaker 1: waiting for the right time to get in the water. 572 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 1: The ocean was just lousy with palolo worms. You could 573 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 1: basically just scoop a cloth through the water and come 574 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,720 Speaker 1: out with a bunch, squish them into a bucket, trying 575 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,240 Speaker 1: not to squish them too much, and then go back 576 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,479 Speaker 1: for more. Everyone was out doing this until the sun 577 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,399 Speaker 1: came up. It was pretty lovely, with multigenerational families out 578 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 1: there and all lighting their way with small lanterns, the 579 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 1: tiny lights all up the coastline, looking like stars that 580 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,960 Speaker 1: had fallen into the sea. Wow, this is a this 581 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 1: email writer is a very good rider. Walking back up 582 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 1: to the beach, everyone was comparing catches and the women 583 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: I was with were explaining to me how much each 584 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 1: catch was probably worth, and it was outrageous. I was 585 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 1: trying to understand if it was expensive just due to scarcity, 586 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 1: or if there were other properties which contributed to this. 587 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,840 Speaker 1: But it was hard to get a satisfying answer, probably 588 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: because I speak no Samoan, so communicating was challenging. But 589 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:19,799 Speaker 1: some people did say they were taking it for their 590 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: sick grandmother, etc. So there are at least some beliefs 591 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: of medicinal or restorative properties. The other thing I had 592 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 1: been trying to get someone to explain to me was 593 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 1: what these worms actually were. I had terrible internet connection there, 594 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:39,279 Speaker 1: so my research only got so far as disembodied reproductive 595 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 1: organ But asking complete strangers on a beach in the 596 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 1: middle of the night if they are actual worms or 597 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 1: escaped penises doesn't get you far when you have limited 598 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 1: common language, and I suspect the intensely Christian culture and 599 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,839 Speaker 1: Samoa mint modesty stopped many people talking about animal genitalia 600 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,799 Speaker 1: with a stranger darn, so I am glad to have 601 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: finally gotten a satisfying answer. Anyway, I got to take 602 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,000 Speaker 1: a small sample from our catch back to my accommodation 603 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:08,759 Speaker 1: and asked the chef in the kitchen to cook it 604 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: up for me. It was served to me like a 605 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 1: kind of caveat, I guess although I have never had that. 606 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,440 Speaker 1: It was sauteed in butter and served with toast. It 607 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 1: reminded me of snails, and that it was an unfamiliar 608 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,839 Speaker 1: texture and the taste was just whatever it had been 609 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 1: cooked in, so it was just salty from the ocean 610 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:31,239 Speaker 1: and very buttery. I only had a little served, but 611 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,279 Speaker 1: I couldn't pick any distinctive or memorable flavors, thankfully, not 612 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,720 Speaker 1: something I personally will crave for the rest of my days. 613 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 1: Usually when I eat adventurously on holiday and end up 614 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 1: with worms in my belly, it is unintentional, so it 615 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,279 Speaker 1: was nice to at least go in with my eyes 616 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 1: wide open this time. I've attached a couple of photos 617 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:50,560 Speaker 1: and there's a video on my Instagram if you want 618 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 1: to see them wiggling about and briefly. In the same episode, 619 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,759 Speaker 1: you also said crabs have bug energy. I hope you 620 00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: know that there are several crustaceans here in Australia with 621 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,640 Speaker 1: such bug energy that they are called Moreton Bay bug 622 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,759 Speaker 1: and Ballmain bug. They are wonderfully buggy and much tastier 623 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 1: than disembodied sex organs. Love your work, Katie from Melbourne, 624 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 1: thank you so much for your story, Katie. I love 625 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,920 Speaker 1: how many interesting foods there are out in the world 626 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,160 Speaker 1: and the lengths to which we will all go to 627 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:24,319 Speaker 1: get a good meal and interesting flavors. The images that 628 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,960 Speaker 1: you sent me actually look quite appetizing. It kind of 629 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,239 Speaker 1: looks like a pesto or a spinach dip. Although I'm 630 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,799 Speaker 1: pretty sensitive to textures any kind of like, I don't know, 631 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,920 Speaker 1: I just there are certain textures that I can hardly 632 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 1: even swallow. It's some kind of just psychological thing, I think. 633 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:47,880 Speaker 1: So in addition to the pololo worms, here are some 634 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 1: of my favorite worm or warm like dishes from around 635 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 1: the world. So I haven't actually eaten these, I do 636 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,080 Speaker 1: love the concept of them. Again, I wish I wasn't 637 00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,239 Speaker 1: so picky about textures, because I definitely like to try this. 638 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,440 Speaker 1: But if you out there have tried any of these 639 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 1: that I've described or something similar, I'd love to hear 640 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 1: from you about what it's tastes like, what the experience 641 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,799 Speaker 1: is like. So with that said, let's look at some 642 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,359 Speaker 1: of the culinary worms from around the world. Now these 643 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,799 Speaker 1: are not all actually worms, these are just kind of 644 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:27,160 Speaker 1: worm like animals. So first, the fat innkeeper worm aka 645 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 1: the penis fish, not to be confused with the candero fish, 646 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 1: which is that tiny Amazonian fish that is rumored to 647 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 1: swim up people's urethras, and the evidence on that is 648 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 1: kind of mixed. It's potentially an urban legend. Potentially, maybe 649 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 1: it's happened like once or twice. Anyways, that's not what 650 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 1: we're talking about. We are talking about the fat innkeeper worm, 651 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: which is quite big. It is actually another polykeete marine worm, 652 00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:00,640 Speaker 1: like the palolo worm. So fat innkeeper worms look a 653 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,960 Speaker 1: bit like a wiener, which earns them the name the 654 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: penis fish. They are pinkish and floppy, and you know, yeah, 655 00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,600 Speaker 1: they kind of look like ding dogs or at least 656 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,960 Speaker 1: like floppy sea hot dogs. In South Korea they are 657 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:19,640 Speaker 1: eaten with chili paste and in China they are stir 658 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,280 Speaker 1: fried or they can also be ground up into umami seasoning. 659 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:28,720 Speaker 1: I love umami. So from the Philippines there are woodworms 660 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,200 Speaker 1: or shipworms. So these are not actually worms, but a 661 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:36,680 Speaker 1: type of mollusk that feeds on rotting wood using symbiotic 662 00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 1: bacteria in their guts, similar to termites. They are the 663 00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,720 Speaker 1: bane of ships, but for people who live near mingrove 664 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:49,400 Speaker 1: forests in the Philippines. They are a long and linguini 665 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 1: like delicacy, similar in taste to other mollusks like oysters 666 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,560 Speaker 1: and so people have described these woodworms as having a 667 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,720 Speaker 1: creamy and salt see texture and they're apparently really good 668 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:07,880 Speaker 1: with lime juice. So onto terrestrial worms, which they're not 669 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,839 Speaker 1: really worms. These are larva. So meal worms are the 670 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:16,280 Speaker 1: larval stage of the yellow mealworm beetle. The beetle itself 671 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,759 Speaker 1: is actually black. The larva is a sort of golden brown. 672 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,320 Speaker 1: You've probably seen meal worms or those little little guys, 673 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:28,000 Speaker 1: a little segmented sort of brown light brown worms. And yeah, 674 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,759 Speaker 1: the I for me, the texture is not great. I 675 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,880 Speaker 1: think I've now Have I had that? Or did I 676 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,400 Speaker 1: have a cricket? I'm trying to remember, but yeah, not 677 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:42,839 Speaker 1: necessarily my favorite thing, but um, you know, they are 678 00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:48,640 Speaker 1: very nutritious. And there are also oh wichitty grubs, so 679 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,480 Speaker 1: whichitty grubs are the larva of various wood eating malves. 680 00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,000 Speaker 1: The larva are large and fat. Think that seen in 681 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,600 Speaker 1: The Lion King where Simba's learning to eat grubs. These 682 00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,480 Speaker 1: are the are quite juicy grubs. So they have been 683 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:07,359 Speaker 1: used as food by Aboriginal Australians for centuries. They can 684 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,040 Speaker 1: be eaten raw or cooked. So when they're raw they 685 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 1: apparently taste a little bit like almonds, sort of a 686 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,080 Speaker 1: sweetish taste to them, that almondy taste. But when cooked, 687 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,479 Speaker 1: the inside has the consistency and color of a fried egg, 688 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,920 Speaker 1: while the skin gets crispy. I've said this before on 689 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:26,799 Speaker 1: the show, but I think it's too bad that, like 690 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,680 Speaker 1: in certain cultures, were taught to have such an aversion 691 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:36,640 Speaker 1: to bugs or squirmy food sources. Like, imagine how many 692 00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,640 Speaker 1: more food options we'd have if we weren't socialized to 693 00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,560 Speaker 1: be so fussy about like, oh, but that's a larva, 694 00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 1: or you know that that looks strange. And I say 695 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,520 Speaker 1: this as someone who is a very picky eater. I 696 00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:54,200 Speaker 1: cannot eat mayonnaise without gagging, and I'm very sensitive to textures. 697 00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 1: So I totally get being very picky and not wanting 698 00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,920 Speaker 1: to eat something like an insect. Yeah, yeah, I struggle 699 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,680 Speaker 1: with it too. I just kind of wish that we 700 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,839 Speaker 1: didn't socialize ourselves to be grossed out by it, because 701 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,840 Speaker 1: I think it is, you know, both in terms of 702 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:16,360 Speaker 1: practicality and also just culinarily. It seems like it'd be 703 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,440 Speaker 1: nice to have those as options. So yeah, I think 704 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,160 Speaker 1: it's really interesting to see these foods that you we 705 00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:25,520 Speaker 1: just wouldn't have in our culture. But it's not really 706 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:32,000 Speaker 1: for any reasonable reason that we don't have them. So 707 00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:37,440 Speaker 1: onto the mystery animal sound segment. So last week's mystery 708 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:42,640 Speaker 1: animal sound, the hint was it's something no lemur wants 709 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:54,160 Speaker 1: to hear. Oh, all right, so that is definitely a 710 00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:57,480 Speaker 1: horrifying sound that lemurs don't want to hear. Also, I 711 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,520 Speaker 1: don't want to hear it. That's scary. So I got 712 00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,359 Speaker 1: so many people riding in with a correct answer. I'm 713 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:07,520 Speaker 1: really blown away. I'm so impressed and proud of everyone 714 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:12,640 Speaker 1: for getting this right. That said, the three fastest guessers 715 00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:18,880 Speaker 1: were Tim m Antibe and Laurel l Congratulations and congratulations 716 00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:23,960 Speaker 1: to everyone else who guess correctly that this is the fossa. So, 717 00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,880 Speaker 1: the fossa is a predator found on the island of 718 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,760 Speaker 1: Madagascar who looks like a brown cat with a head 719 00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:35,439 Speaker 1: like a weasel cross with a dog. And they are 720 00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:39,960 Speaker 1: a I would say, medium sized sort of animal. They 721 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,680 Speaker 1: are not as small as like a domesticated cat, but 722 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,759 Speaker 1: they're not as big as say, a cougar. They're kind 723 00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:50,520 Speaker 1: of you know, they're they're a little bigger than a bobcat. 724 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:56,440 Speaker 1: But yeah, so they're you know, they're about six feet long, 725 00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:01,080 Speaker 1: a little over around maybe the thirty pounds, so yeah, 726 00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:06,319 Speaker 1: it's it's not small, but it's not huge. So the 727 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:10,840 Speaker 1: fuss is in the Philoformia sub order, but many of 728 00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:15,160 Speaker 1: its catlike features are an example of convergent evolution with 729 00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,439 Speaker 1: cats in the Philodaye family. So it may look like 730 00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:23,120 Speaker 1: a wildcat related to maybe a cougar or something, but 731 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:30,279 Speaker 1: it is actually probably just they may have started out 732 00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:32,440 Speaker 1: with a common ancestor, but then they had this like 733 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:39,399 Speaker 1: convergent evolution. So Fussa love to eat lemurs, and they 734 00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:43,200 Speaker 1: love to scream and make horrifying noises while mating, as 735 00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:47,319 Speaker 1: you have just heard. And they love to eat one 736 00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:51,440 Speaker 1: of the cutest primates on the planet, the gray mouse lemur, 737 00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:55,319 Speaker 1: who is a couple ounces of big eyed cuteness and 738 00:47:55,400 --> 00:48:00,080 Speaker 1: apparently a delicious snack for a fossa. I think, oh, 739 00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:02,239 Speaker 1: this is this was a long time ago, but that 740 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:07,480 Speaker 1: movie Madagascar, I think that, yeah, the fossa were the 741 00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,279 Speaker 1: the bad guys in that movie. And I think one 742 00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:14,280 Speaker 1: of the little lemurs on the one of the lemurs 743 00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,479 Speaker 1: I think is a ringtail lemur, and then the other 744 00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:20,959 Speaker 1: one it was a gray mouse lemur. I'm pretty sure. 745 00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:25,120 Speaker 1: I'm yeah, that movie came out a long time ago, 746 00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,000 Speaker 1: but yes it was they were They were correct, though, 747 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,239 Speaker 1: the fossa is a predator to lemurs. So onto this 748 00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,040 Speaker 1: week's mystery animal sound. The hint it's not a cool 749 00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:47,360 Speaker 1: refreshing Italian treat, but a lip smacking animal. Nonetheless, if 750 00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:49,960 Speaker 1: you think you know who is making that sound, you 751 00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,800 Speaker 1: can write me an email at Creature featurepot at gmail 752 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:55,960 Speaker 1: dot com. And if you have questions that you would 753 00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,400 Speaker 1: like to hear me answer on the podcast, you can 754 00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,640 Speaker 1: write to me there as well. Thank you guys so 755 00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:05,080 Speaker 1: much for listening. I will be back next week with 756 00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:09,200 Speaker 1: another episode of Creature Feature and thanks to the Space 757 00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:13,640 Speaker 1: Cossacks for their super awesome song Exo Lumina. Creature features 758 00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:17,239 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts like the one 759 00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:19,480 Speaker 1: you just heard, is the iHeart Radio app Apple podcast 760 00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,080 Speaker 1: or Hey Guess what Raby listen to your favorite shows. 761 00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:29,960 Speaker 1: See you next Wednesday,