1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and we're just trucking along 4 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 2: doing our thing. It's called Stuffy Show. Oh. 5 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: Is this the episode on the Great seventies movie Convoy. 6 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 2: No, this is the episode on the Coming Down the 7 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 2: Pike in the Future movie Fencing the comments. 8 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: Oh I thought it was Fencing the Convoy. 9 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 2: No. 10 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: Boys, a lot of mashups happening. 11 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, we should probably let's stop joking around. We've had 12 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 2: a lot of fun here, but let's get serious. We're 13 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 2: talking about fencing the Commons. And for anybody who heard 14 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 2: our episode on the Tragedy of the Commons, they're fairly related. 15 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 2: They're talking about the same thing. The Commons are both 16 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 2: the same thing, but there's radically different stuff going on here. 17 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 2: Just go listen to our Tragedy of the Commons episode. 18 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 2: I won't give a rundown of it. But fencing the Commons, 19 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 2: some people point to it is this process of separating 20 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:20,119 Speaker 2: and extracting land from people to whom it had formerly belonged. 21 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 2: Everyday people literally commoners. 22 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, or maybe not belong but at least you know, 23 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: made use of to survive. 24 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, it depends on who you ask, and it 25 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 2: is possible, say some historians that this is where wealth 26 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 2: inequality came from, that this is where wage labor came from, 27 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 2: that this is where a lot of the really not 28 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 2: great features of the modern world were rooted. And when 29 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 2: you dig into it, you're like, wow, this is a 30 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 2: decision by a really self interested group of powerful people 31 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 2: to pull off a really big land grab. J All 32 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 2: the old England. 33 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: Boy, I love that self edit there. 34 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 2: Thanks, that's between you and me, Jerry and the lamp post. 35 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: That's right. Shall we get on with it? Then? 36 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 2: Yes, I feel like that was a good setup. If 37 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 2: I did say so myself. 38 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: I agree, just like the old days. Not that your 39 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: setups now are no good, but. 40 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 2: In the old days it would have been like, Chuck, 41 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 2: have you ever eaten grass off of the Commons? 42 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: Yeah? I think in that last Commons episode actually mentioned 43 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: that the Commons was the area of our high school 44 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: in just the big middle open area inside where everyone 45 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: would hang out, because that was a common area and 46 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: that's what the Commons are in this case too. And 47 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 1: Lyvia did a bang up job with this one. 48 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 2: I think yes she did not, as we. 49 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: Say, yeah, out of the commons, and we're going to start, 50 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,959 Speaker 1: as Livia suggests, with William the Conqueror, because that makes 51 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: sense in this case. The Normans when they conquered England 52 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: in ten sixty six, they said, all right, here's what 53 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: we're gonna do. All the the wealthy, noble people of 54 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: our land are going to get all the land, and 55 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: so let's just divide it all up. They're going to 56 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: live there on manners. And if you if you have 57 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 1: a manor house, you are the lord of that manor. 58 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: You're you have allegiance to the king, obviously. But on 59 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: that land of yours, besides your manor house, there's also 60 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,839 Speaker 1: going to be a peasant village. There's gonna be some 61 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: some great farmland that they're going to work for you, 62 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: so they can give you lots of food. And then 63 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: there's also the commons, which all of the peasant people 64 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: or commoners can can share. They can divide it up 65 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: and share it and live off that stuff. 66 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and this land was not the commoner's land. This 67 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 2: is not peasant's land. This is the medieval era. I 68 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 2: guess it kicked off the medieval era, and just to 69 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 2: be clear, this was this was the lord's land like 70 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 2: you were saying, but the commoners had what are called 71 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 2: use of fructory rights, which is basically like they don't 72 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 2: own the land, but they have like actual legal right 73 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 2: to use and to work that land and to take 74 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,119 Speaker 2: the products of their work from that land to sustain themselves. 75 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 2: So this is the arrangement like that, and it worked 76 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: pretty well for several centuries, it turns. 77 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,239 Speaker 1: Out, yeah, it did. You know. They divided that land 78 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,599 Speaker 1: into basically straight strips and we'll get into that in 79 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 1: a second, for each household. And there was also the waste, 80 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: which will come into play. It sounds like a terrible 81 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: word to name basically the forest, but you know, it's 82 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: where they couldn't farm, but it was you know, it's 83 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 1: where the rivers were, that's where the trees were, So 84 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 1: that's where they hunted and fished and gathered peat and 85 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 1: wood and stuff like that. So it's still very valuable 86 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 1: area as far as use goes. But they called it waste. 87 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 2: It was just not a good, good term. 88 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agreed. 89 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 2: But so with the farmland themselves, like you said, they 90 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 2: cut them up into strips, and just imagine like a 91 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 2: series of fields. One field is just grass. We'll call 92 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 2: that like the meadow. It's where all the sheep and 93 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 2: the cows are grazing. Now there's another field, and that's 94 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 2: where a bunch of cropland is growing. There's another field. 95 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 2: There's more crop land, and if you look very closely, 96 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 2: the crop land is divided up into very long, thin strips, 97 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 2: and each of those strips belongs to a different person 98 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 2: who farms that common land in both fields. And that's 99 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 2: how things were divided up. And you didn't have two 100 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 2: strips next to each other because they didn't want anybody 101 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 2: to get like all the good dirt. Yeah, and then 102 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 2: you would have strips in both fields because there were 103 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 2: different things growing in different fields, and the whole thing 104 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:47,479 Speaker 2: rotated every few years, and a different field would become 105 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 2: the new meadow because the sheep and the cows would peep, 106 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 2: poop on it and fertilize it for next time around 107 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 2: when it became cropland again. 108 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. So it was just basic crop rotation that made 109 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 1: a lot of sense. They would let it rewild. They 110 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: you know, they were straight because they had these very 111 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: tough to use plows that did not turn very well, 112 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: so they just made these long, straight strips. They would 113 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: take care and share the oxen that it took to 114 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: pull these plows for everyone. 115 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a big one. 116 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: And it was you know, it was sort of like 117 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: a It wasn't like like communism or anything or socialism. 118 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: It was just like how it was. It was like, hey, 119 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: we're all going to care for this land. We're going 120 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 1: to rotate the crops so the land stays good for 121 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: all of us, and we're gonna all help take care 122 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: of the ox and will help each other out. And 123 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: we're not going to put up fences because the animals 124 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 1: have to graze around, and we all just have to 125 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: agree on how to do this, and they basically did. 126 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 2: Well. That's the big one. Because you are sharing strips 127 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 2: with your neighbors in a single field, everybody has to 128 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 2: do the same farming all at the same time. It's 129 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 2: almost like the group of commoners working those fields were 130 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 2: collectively one single farmer making these decisions on when to harvest, 131 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 2: when to plow, when to do all that stuff. And 132 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 2: like I said, it worked pretty well. It's important because 133 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 2: these people are the losers in this situation, and we 134 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 2: usually root for the underdog. So we have to be 135 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 2: careful not to overidealize life in a medieval English peasant 136 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 2: village like it was tough. Good point, like if if 137 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 2: your crops failed and it turned out that your your 138 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 2: neighbors thought you worshiped some new knows, they might burn 139 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 2: you at the stake. Like it was. It was not 140 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 2: necessarily the easiest life, but it seems to be a 141 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 2: life that was very satisfactory to the peasants because when 142 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 2: it came time for them to be forced to give 143 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 2: it up, they did not want to give it up. 144 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 2: They wanted to keep living like that because the alternative 145 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 2: that they were given was not preferable to peasant village life. 146 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, hey, go move to the same and 147 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: work in a textile mill. So they didn't necessarily also 148 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: divide this up evenly. It was, you know, it was 149 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: divided up according to like a lot of like inherited 150 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: steaks that had been around for a long long time 151 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: in the families. There were people that did not get 152 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,119 Speaker 1: any land at all and basically were just the hired 153 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: farm hands even within the peasant village. But they did 154 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:29,559 Speaker 1: get resources that could generally hunt and fish and things 155 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: like that. In the waste after the harvest. If they 156 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: were like you know, crops that were leftover or not 157 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: completely utilized, they a lot of times could had access 158 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: to those, So you know, they were getting along okay. 159 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: You know when you look at the alternative, which is 160 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: having no land at all to farm, I guess. 161 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. And although there was inequality, you could still work 162 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 2: your way up. There were people who had more land 163 00:08:57,520 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 2: than they necessarily needed. Yeah, so if you were land 164 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 2: you could sublet that land, work that land, and start 165 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 2: giving yourself a foothold and maybe eventually buy that strip 166 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 2: or those strips of field for yourself. So it seems like, yes, 167 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 2: there were some people who were wealthier than others, but 168 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 2: the difference in income equality and social equality is much closer, 169 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,359 Speaker 2: right than it would become in the next few centuries. 170 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And they also, you know, thought ahead, like, hey, 171 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: you within this system, you can't just get so rich 172 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: and still be here. So they had an income cap basically, 173 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,439 Speaker 1: so if you went above that, they're like, sorry, you're 174 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: you're not a commoner anymore. You can't farm this land. 175 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: And they did this in a pretty democratic way. They 176 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: had a local council that they elected that you know, 177 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: every year they would allocate these strips for different households 178 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,839 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. They would set fees for like 179 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: you know, grazing and pasturing and stuff like that and 180 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: get their agricultural calendar and order. And yeah, that's just 181 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: how it went for a long time. And like you said, 182 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,079 Speaker 1: for a couple hundred years, it wasn't it worked out 183 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: pretty well? 184 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 2: It did so apparently around twelve thirty five, so people 185 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 2: have been farming like this for a couple hundred years. 186 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 2: By then, there was a statute passed, and I don't 187 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 2: know the ins and outs of it, but it was 188 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 2: called the Statute of Merton. 189 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: I wonder if the statute was named for the famously 190 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 1: long necked defensive back for the San Francisco forty nine ers, 191 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: Merton Hanks. 192 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 2: Obviously it was, but regardless of who it was named after, 193 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 2: the Statue of Merton said that if you were the 194 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 2: lord of a manor and you want to like close 195 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 2: off your whole, well, I guess manner. If you want 196 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:41,719 Speaker 2: to close off some of it, you can do that 197 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 2: legally from now on, but you have to make sure 198 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 2: that there's plenty of common land left for the peasants 199 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 2: to work and live on. And I guess whoever that 200 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 2: was passed for was like yes, and everybody else didn't 201 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 2: pay much attention to it for about one hundred or 202 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,959 Speaker 2: so years, and then something happened in England and Europe 203 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 2: in general that really altered the trajectory of history, and 204 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 2: that was the Black Death, when as much as half 205 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 2: half of the people in England died off from this 206 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 2: one plague in just a couple of years. 207 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: So this it's interesting to see how things like this 208 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: in history can just change the course of history, right, 209 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: because had the Black Death not happened, obviously a lot 210 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 1: of people would have still been alive. But aside from that, 211 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: like this may have never gone down that way because 212 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: it was just a radical shift in the way the 213 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: country looked and how they had to operate moving forward. 214 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: Because obviously, when half the people go away and leave 215 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: the planet. 216 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 2: Is that how I'm saying this now, I think I 217 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 2: sniffed up the case forever. 218 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, like it was the snap or something. There's gonna 219 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: be a labor shortage, just the nuts and bolts of 220 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: it is, there's gonna be far less people to do 221 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: that kind of work, which was kind of good for 222 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: the peasants at the time, because all of a sudden 223 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: they had some bargaining power and they said, hey, maybe 224 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: we should get paid a little more. We also don't 225 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: need as much food because there's only half the people. 226 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: And so that all of a sudden paved the way 227 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: for more sheep grazing because England started realizing, hey, there's 228 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: a lot more money and a lot easier money to 229 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: be made in textiles and shearing the sheep and selling 230 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: wool in the wool trade than there is this farming, 231 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: Like that's for the birds, right. 232 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 2: So, because sheep are much less labor intensive, require way 233 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 2: fewer farmers, but more land, the people who are wealthy 234 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 2: started going after enclosure more and more. They started following 235 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 2: that statute of Merton Hanks and saying like, oh, yeah, 236 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 2: I want to enclose this. I'm going to enclose this 237 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 2: and turn it into grazing land for sheep. And people 238 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 2: were actually displaced. Some people were some entire villages were displaced. 239 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 2: And it was as simple is that it was, you 240 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 2: don't live here anymore, get out, and don't forget I'm 241 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 2: the lord of the manor so what are you going 242 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 2: to do about it? Sometimes there were armed people who 243 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 2: would show up and tell them to leave. It was 244 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 2: just as illegal and indefensible as that. But that's exactly 245 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 2: what happened. People were moved out for sheep because they 246 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 2: could make more money off of wool than they could 247 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 2: off of crops, because there weren't that many people who 248 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 2: needed the crops in the first place. So this huge 249 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 2: land grab first started because the price of wool was 250 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 2: pretty expensive, and that started the first what you would 251 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 2: call really the first wave of enclosure back in the 252 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 2: fourteenth fifteenth century. 253 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know what we mean by fencing an 254 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: enclosure is literal fencing because they had to keep those 255 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: sheep there. If not, the sheep were going to go away, 256 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:55,439 Speaker 1: so they had to physically construct barricades to keep these 257 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: fences in. Sometimes they were literal fences. Sometimes there were 258 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: these hedges. But yeah, if you're thinking, like you know 259 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: topiari type, you know, finery of a English garden, it's 260 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: more like a hedge that they train to grow so 261 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: thick and then vines attached to that that it essentially 262 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: acts as a fence. 263 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, like you just can't get through it. There's too 264 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 2: many brambles and blackberries and all that stuff. So, yeah, 265 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 2: these hedges. If you're British, you are probably pretty fond 266 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 2: of your hedges. They're part of British culture. But outside 267 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 2: of Britain, it's worth going to Britain just to see 268 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 2: the hedges. So the hedges have like two or three 269 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 2: Michelin stars, I can't remember. 270 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: That's right. The other thing we have to point out 271 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: here is that sometimes it was a little more like 272 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: how it was supposed to work officially is different than 273 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: how it went down in practice. Officially, you were supposed 274 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: to get unanimous consent of all the stakeholders of the 275 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: Commons in order to sell that often fence it up 276 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: for your sheet, but it obviously didn't always work out 277 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: that way. Like you said, sometimes he just took it. 278 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: Sometimes they forced them to move to a very much 279 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: less desire. They're like, here, take this land. It's not 280 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: nearly as fertile, but look I gave you something. And 281 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: sometimes yeah, it was just completely illegal. 282 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, so some people were like, hey, this is kind 283 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 2: of messed up. One of the most well known voices 284 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 2: was Thomas Moore, who wrote his book Utopia in fifteen sixteen, 285 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 2: and he was pretty clearly against the sheep. He called 286 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 2: them the great devourers who devoured entire communities. And you know, 287 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 2: obviously it wasn't the sheep's fault. They were just doing 288 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 2: what they do, which is kind of a yeah, I know, 289 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 2: they really took the brunt of it. But it was 290 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 2: because of this, the raising sheep that became so profitable 291 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 2: that that's what was really devouring the communities. And it 292 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 2: got the ear of Henry the seventh. Remember he was 293 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 2: the guy who killed Richard the third and took over. 294 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 2: He was the first Tudor king. He said, hey, I 295 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 2: am hearing what you're saying. So let's kind of slow 296 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 2: down these enclosures because we don't want to uproot the peasantry. 297 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 2: We want them to keep doing what they do, because 298 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 2: that is England as far as anyone thinks of England. 299 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's sort of the first bucket of enclosure, 300 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: the first wave, I guess, the first tronch, the first trunch. 301 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: That's right. So maybe we should take a break and 302 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: we'll come back with a little more intense enclosure right 303 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: after this. 304 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 2: And things A job in job. 305 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: All right, So, as promised, we talked about the first 306 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: wave of enclosure, and now the second wave a couple 307 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: of hundred years later comes back in a much more 308 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: intense form because the government, like the whole government of England, 309 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: said all right, this is how we're going to do 310 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: things now, because in the last couple of hundred years, 311 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: textile making has really become the thing. Although we're getting 312 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: most of our wool and cotton and stuff from our 313 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:22,679 Speaker 1: various colonies all over the world, it's not like we 314 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: need all this for sheep. We think this is just 315 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,640 Speaker 1: the way to go because we really need to make 316 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: our whole agricultural operation much more efficient, and it was 317 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: not efficient when people were just doing their own thing 318 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 1: with these little strips of land. Like one person or 319 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: one entity needs to kind of be in charge of 320 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,439 Speaker 1: all of this so it'll be more efficient and smooth. 321 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 2: Right ideally, and in practice, a peasant could support himself 322 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,640 Speaker 2: and his family and you know, maybe have enough leftover 323 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 2: to sell or something like that, but you can't really 324 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 2: support a growing workforce, a labor force that you're creating 325 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 2: basically out of whole cloth. With the industrial Revolution started 326 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:07,120 Speaker 2: in England thanks to these wool factories, converting them into textiles. 327 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 2: You need a bunch of people for that. So you 328 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 2: need to figure out how to take the people off 329 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 2: the land and put them in the factories. And then 330 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 2: you have to figure out how to feed those people 331 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 2: from the land that you just move the people from, 332 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,439 Speaker 2: and you can pay them so that they actually have 333 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 2: to buy the food from the land that you just 334 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 2: forced them off of. Yeah, you can start to see 335 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 2: what a bad deal it was. But because there was 336 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:32,360 Speaker 2: so much money to be made, because there was such 337 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 2: a huge leap forward just waiting to be taken through 338 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 2: the Industrial Revolution, the powers that be guided steered railroaded 339 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 2: England and the English into the cities and the factories 340 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 2: in the cities. 341 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: Yeah. And one of the biggest sort of pillars of 342 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:56,360 Speaker 1: this new system was the Norfolk four course system. And 343 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: a guy named Lord Townsend nicknamed Turnip. I believe he 344 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: brought this over from the Netherlands. His nickname was Turnip. 345 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: And wouldn't you guess turnips are part of this four 346 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:13,199 Speaker 1: course system. It involved crop rotation, in this case wheat, turnips, barley, 347 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,120 Speaker 1: and clover. You might be wondering, like clover, what good 348 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: is that? 349 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 2: Clover? 350 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: Was good for the grazing. 351 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 2: It's good for the bees, so honey, yeah, it's. 352 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: Good for the bees, it's good for the soil. And 353 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: it also meant that they didn't need to let those 354 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: fields go down for a season and rewild. They could 355 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: just kind of keep rotating things and you could use 356 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: those turnips to feed the livestock that are grazing on 357 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: the clover, and previous to that, they might slaughter livestock 358 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: at the end of the season in the early winter. 359 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: Another big change was that the seed drill came along, 360 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 1: which has allowed them to plant in these very long 361 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: straight rows, just you know, endless, endless straight rows, and 362 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:58,640 Speaker 1: they planted grain. And guess who introduced that, Josh and audience, I. 363 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 2: Know who it is, Air and Air yep survivor. 364 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 1: Oh man, jeth Throw Toll baby. 365 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Jethrow Toll. 366 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: That's right. 367 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,199 Speaker 2: I knew it all along. I was just teasing. So 368 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 2: did you know Jethro Toll was a British band? 369 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: Oh? I did not. I just thought he was the 370 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: guy that came up with the seed drill and was 371 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 1: generally feeling like a dead duck. 372 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 2: No. Uh, they were a British band and apparently someone 373 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 2: in their agent's office was a history buff and was 374 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 2: telling them all about Jethrow Toll and what a great 375 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 2: inventive person he was. So they're like, we'll just name 376 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 2: our band Jethro Toll, even though it'll make no sense 377 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 2: because it doesn't fit with our music at all. We're 378 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:41,360 Speaker 2: gonna name our band Jethrow Toll. 379 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: I think it kind of fits, do you think so? Yeah. 380 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: When I think of seed drills, I think of flautists. 381 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: I think of Ian Anderson dancing around on one leg 382 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: like a flamingo. 383 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 2: Nice. Okay, I guess it makes sense now that you 384 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 2: put it like that. 385 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: We talked about aqualon quite a bit on the show. 386 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 2: I don't know how you don't talk about aqualong like 387 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 2: pretty frequently. It's just there. It's worth talking about, for sure. 388 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,919 Speaker 1: I love very divisive song. I think it's great and 389 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: kind of fun. 390 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, some people hate it, boy, a lot of people. 391 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder why it's a weird song. 392 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 2: It's odd. So I guess the upshot of all this 393 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 2: is that an industrial revolution was coincidental with an agricultural revolution, 394 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 2: and one fueled the other, which is pretty interesting because 395 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 2: this is happening at the exact same time. But even still, 396 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 2: the government was like, you can't just go in and 397 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 2: steal people's land. If you want to enclose your land 398 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 2: and consolidate it so that you can create this super 399 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 2: efficient agricultural land that you can make tons of money 400 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 2: off of selling food again to the peasants who were 401 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 2: just removed from that land that they used to farm, 402 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 2: it just gets me chuck. You have to do that 403 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 2: through act of parliament. You have to petition Parliament and 404 00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 2: say I want to enclose this land, and not only that, 405 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 2: you have to have a supermajority of the local area 406 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 2: to agree to it. And there were two things that 407 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,880 Speaker 2: helped people with this one. The same people who were 408 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 2: trying to enclose the land were in Parliament or at 409 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 2: least friends with them. And the people who provided the 410 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 2: supermajority to say yes, you can enclose the land were 411 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 2: their friends and neighbors and people in the same class. 412 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 2: So it's not like these were huge obstacles that the 413 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 2: people enclosing Great Britain had to overcome at the time. 414 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 1: Now, and if you're thinking like, oh, guys, are you 415 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: telling me, they passed like thousands and thousands of acts 416 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: of Parliament they did exactly that. They passed about four 417 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: thousand of these between seven fifty and eighteen sixty, so 418 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 1: just a little over one hundred years and almost eleven 419 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: thousand square miles of England beginning at the start of 420 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: the twentieth century was now enclosed. That's about a fifth 421 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 1: of the entire area of the country. If you're wondering 422 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 1: about the waste, we mentioned the waste. We don't want 423 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: to let the waste go to waste. They were enclosed 424 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: as well. Like it wasn't like they fenced all of 425 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: that off, but a lot of it was. And they said, hey, 426 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: I know you used to hunt and fish here, but 427 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: now we're going to take our ritzy hunting parties out 428 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 1: here and you're not going to be allowed to hunt. 429 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: Or we may just raise it and have our own gardens. 430 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: It might be like agricultural that you know, we get 431 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 1: some of our food from, but it will probably be 432 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 1: just like like you know, the English gardens that we 433 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: love to gaze upon with our riches go off. 434 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I have a real problem with that as well. 435 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 2: So people just didn't necessarily take this lying down. There 436 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 2: were huge, huge waves and spasms of violence throughout the 437 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 2: centuries from the beginning of enclosure up until the nineteenth century. 438 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 2: This is a really, really big deal. You can trace 439 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 2: it all the way back to the thirteen eighty one 440 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 2: Peasants Revolt that wasn't entirely about enclosure, but it was 441 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,639 Speaker 2: a factor in it, and trace it up to the 442 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 2: English Civil War where the Diggers came along. The Diggers 443 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 2: were a radical faction of a radical group called the Levelers, 444 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 2: and their whole thing was enclosure is a mess, and 445 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 2: it's terrible and we're not going to put up with it. 446 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 2: The Diggers, i think, kind of capture what the issue 447 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 2: was to the peasants, and that was to them, if 448 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 2: you were born British, you had a birthright to British soil, 449 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 2: like the country belonged to you as much as it 450 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 2: belonged to anybody else who was born in Britain, and 451 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 2: your right was to work that soil and make a 452 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,719 Speaker 2: living for yourself however you wanted to. And coming in 453 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 2: and enclosing this area and forcing people from that land 454 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 2: with a violation of the birthright of those British people, 455 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 2: and you know, they engaged in violence, and they would 456 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,719 Speaker 2: break down enclosures and fences and hedges, but ultimately they 457 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 2: lost that battle or that war. 458 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you're wondering about uh, I feel like 459 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: I'm waste guy today, which I come like it keeps 460 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:06,239 Speaker 1: just popping up. Whatever, it's my turn. And while I'm 461 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: looking at the script, here is at my line. 462 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 2: This is your line. You didn't highlight your lines? 463 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: Sorry? Sorry? Yeah, as far as the waste goes, you know, 464 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 1: I said that a lot of them were kind of 465 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:18,879 Speaker 1: closed off as well, so they couldn't use them. So 466 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 1: obviously there's going to be some like saboteur action going 467 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 1: on there. And these were commoners known as the Blacks, 468 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: and they would poach deer on in the waste. They 469 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: would destroy trees because trees all of it. I mean, 470 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:33,160 Speaker 1: there were always a bit of a commodity, but they 471 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: became an increasing commodity because of the shipbuilding prowess, the 472 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: growing shipbuilding prowess of England at the time, and the 473 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: British Royal Navy fleet that was just growing and growing, 474 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 1: British seapower Great band. So they were doing this and 475 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: so the government passed the Black Act, which basically said 476 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 1: all right, if you get caught poaching a deer on 477 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: land that you hunted all your life, We're going to 478 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: kill you. And it was the death penalty, and so 479 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: hundreds of people were hanged for approaching those deer that 480 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: they had always been hunting. 481 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, so the way of life that these people lived 482 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,679 Speaker 2: was outlawed, and so to engage in that way of 483 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 2: life you were now a criminal. And the crimes you 484 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 2: committed e g. Killing a rabbit on enclosed land, maybe 485 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 2: even chasing after a rabbit through someone's enclosed land could 486 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 2: get you killed by the government. Like that's what happened 487 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 2: with that. This is how serious things got. And back 488 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 2: to the I'm going to take a waste one if 489 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 2: you don't mind. 490 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: Well, the sub waste, which is the fens. 491 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 2: Okay, fine, it's not the greatest waste, but it's important 492 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 2: because the fens were a and I think still are 493 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 2: in some places, a big, vast marshy area of England. 494 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 2: And the people who wanted to grow crops for that 495 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 2: agricultural revolution and make a bunch of money, we're like, 496 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 2: we should drain those because that'll immediately turn into a 497 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 2: really great crop land. And the people who lived on 498 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,159 Speaker 2: the fence, the peasants, said, well, wh whoa, we're using 499 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 2: those And so this kind of battle for public opinion 500 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 2: broke out, and the people who were trying to make 501 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 2: the money off of it told everybody else like, this 502 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 2: is just waste land, like terrible land, not even the 503 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 2: other version of waste. This is just terrible land that's 504 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 2: not doing anybody any good. And the people who don't 505 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,959 Speaker 2: want to leave are too lazy to come into the 506 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 2: cities and work, so forget them. And the peasants said, hey, 507 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,120 Speaker 2: we can make way more money working the fens than 508 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 2: we can working for you in the cities. And it 509 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 2: worked for a little while the fens. They managed to 510 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 2: stave off the fens being drained from the seventeen hundreds 511 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 2: for most of the seventeen hundreds, and then ultimately lost out. 512 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 2: That's a recurring theme in this chuck. The people who 513 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 2: are defending their right to the land ultimately lost out, 514 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 2: over and over and over again. 515 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, you'll be glad to know. Like, just 516 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: like the first sort of wave of enclosure, when there 517 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: were some people speaking up and saying like this is 518 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: really the best idea. During the official parliamentary enclosure, some people, 519 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 1: some officials even stepped forward and said, hey, I don't 520 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 1: think this is the best thing that we're doing here. 521 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: Those guy named Arthur Young, who who actually was a 522 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 1: pro enclosure and was promoting that kind of stuff as 523 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: the Secretary of the Board of Agriculture, But then as 524 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: it started to play out, he was like, wait a minute, 525 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: We've got these villages that are just drying up. We've 526 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: got these commoners that are impoverished now, and so I'm 527 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: going to whip up a report here and take it 528 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: to the board. And they said this is in eighteen 529 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: oh one, and they said, thanks, but no thanks, we're 530 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: not even going to take a look at that. 531 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 2: I think I saw somewhere that something like three hundred 532 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 2: and fifty English villages just vanished in that one hundred 533 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 2: years of the parliamentary enclosures. Yeah, I mean just gone 534 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 2: like gone. 535 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. I guess there's different ways of looking at this, 536 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: like you can't stop progress. And it's not like if 537 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: this hadn't happened, there would still be these, you know, 538 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: villages of commoners in this modern society. But it's the 539 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: way it went down was just pretty despicable. 540 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, there was another group that were similar 541 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 2: to the diggers, but they were more interested in like 542 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:20,959 Speaker 2: income equality, fair wages, kind of industrialized stuff like workers' rights, 543 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 2: but they were also interested in agrarian rights as well. 544 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: The chartists they made talked about them before, right. 545 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 2: Yes, in the Pinkerton episode, Alan Pinkerton started out as 546 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 2: a chartist, that's right. And they tried to actually kind 547 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 2: of get back to the land. They bought a bunch 548 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 2: of these enclosed lands and turned them back into crop land. 549 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 2: But I saw that they were a victim of their 550 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 2: success because they had like seventy thousand people joining in 551 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 2: to do this, and they just could not get enough 552 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 2: land fast enough, so they ended up going bankrupt. 553 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, like you said, they're just the 554 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: way their country looked changed so radically, and it wasn't 555 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: just about the way of life. It was like that 556 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: the medieval village was a was something that the people 557 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: of England, like that's all they knew. So all of 558 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: a sudden, it's just everything is changing so fast, and 559 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: it's being foisted upon them so fast. There were you know, 560 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: there were poets and there were authors like writing these 561 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: books and odes about you know, the destruction of the 562 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: way of life that they had always known. So it 563 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: was sort of in the in the cultural ether. 564 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 2: Yeah as well zeitgeist. Yeah. 565 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: I don't think they said zeitgeist then, did they. 566 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 2: Okay, so cultural ether. I didn't realize that was a 567 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 2: term of the peasantry, but. 568 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: I guess I've had ether at the time either. 569 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 2: So Chuck, I say we take our second break and 570 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 2: come back and talk more about this, like what actually 571 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 2: happened from. 572 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: This, let's do it and things. 573 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 2: Okay, So we're back, and enclosure has become this orgy 574 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 2: of land grabbing and displacement. One other thing we should 575 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 2: have said is that Parliament kind of enforced movement to 576 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 2: the city, so you would have your village stolen out 577 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 2: from under you and turned into sheep grazing land or 578 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 2: crop land or something like that, and now you were homeless. 579 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 2: So legally you were considered a vagrant. Vagrancy was a crime. 580 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 2: You were a criminal if you didn't have a place 581 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 2: to live. So where you're gonna go? I need to 582 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 2: make some money fast. I'm gonna move to the city 583 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 2: and start working in the factory. So like just choice 584 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 2: after choice was shut down for everybody, and the effects 585 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 2: of this huge sweeping change in Britain just rippled across 586 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 2: the world because one thing would feed into another thing, 587 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 2: would feed into another thing, and then the whole thing 588 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 2: would cycle back again. And every time it cycled back, 589 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 2: it would just grow and grow and grow and grow. 590 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 2: And the British Empire in the nineteenth century rose based 591 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 2: on the agricultural revolution that fed the industrial revolution, and 592 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 2: it just exploded. It just started to grow exponentially. 593 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean you can look at anytime 594 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: something like this happens, you can kind of pick apart 595 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 1: little small parts or not small changes. I guess they 596 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: ended up being, you know, pretty monumental, but like just 597 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: you know, did people live longer, were they healthier, did 598 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: wages increase? Stuff like that? And wages for labor did rise, 599 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: but it was really hard work. It was pretty intense stuff. 600 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 1: It's hard to get a lot of data and nutrition 601 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: sort of statistics for that time period, but if you 602 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: look at things like you know, average heights and weights 603 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: and things like that, it seems like malnutrition maybe increased 604 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: because you know, people were working in these factories and 605 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: it was pretty dangerous wage work and they didn't have 606 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: like the best food available to them at the time. 607 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 1: You're gonna have a lot more people that have less, 608 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: so obviously they're going to turn to like the church 609 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: or maybe even the government and say, hey, you kicked 610 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: us out of our land. We're poor, we need help. 611 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: You need to help us subside. And at the time, 612 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: you know, and that's that's still, you know, a big 613 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 1: debate all over the world like how much should should 614 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 1: the rich help the poor? People just of regular means 615 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: help the poor, And it was a thing back then. 616 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: A lot, you know, a lot of people are saying like, hey, 617 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: it's not the government's place to step in and support 618 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,479 Speaker 1: the poor. It's just not We're not going to get 619 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 1: involved in that. 620 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 2: No, And a big one was Thomas Malthus, who wrote 621 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 2: the Essay on the Principle of Population. We've talked about 622 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 2: Malthus a lot. I think he even got his own episode, 623 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 2: and he's unfairly saddled with the idea of like no, no, no, 624 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 2: you just let the poor die. It's just a it's 625 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 2: just a natural check and balance to prevent over population. 626 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 2: And he was not advocating that. He was pointing out 627 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 2: that is a check on overpopulation, not make sure that 628 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 2: that happens. But he was the one, he was the 629 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,400 Speaker 2: first one to really get across, like, our agricultural production 630 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 2: will never be able to keep up with population, and 631 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 2: so we have to kind of be concerned about overpopulation 632 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 2: at some point in time. 633 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So now you have a lot of 634 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,800 Speaker 1: people living in cities, far fewer people living in the 635 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 1: rural farmland where they used to live. The population is 636 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: actually rising a lot. Between seventeen fifty and eighteen fifty 637 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,439 Speaker 1: of one hundred years, it may have doubled, of course, 638 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: this is you know, after being halved with the Black Death. 639 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:41,840 Speaker 1: It may have been you know, just sort of the 640 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 1: way things went. 641 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, twenty more people, Yeah, exactly. 642 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 1: But you know, there's there was a definite increase in 643 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 1: efficiency of agriculture, Like no one can deny that. Like 644 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:53,839 Speaker 1: what they set out to do, they did pretty successfully 645 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 1: because you had to support this larger population and free 646 00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 1: of those workers to work in the city, so that 647 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,959 Speaker 1: all worked well. If that was if that was your aim, 648 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 1: if you're on that side of the argument, you could 649 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: point to all those things and saying like, hey, our 650 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: navy strong, we've got a great urban labor force now, 651 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: and everyone's you know, everyone's happy. 652 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 2: Right, I mean, you could say quality of life in England, Rose, 653 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 2: I mean the middle class, the merchant class suddenly exploded 654 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 2: in wealth. There are a lot of people who got 655 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 2: rich off of it, off of the Industrial Revolution and 656 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 2: all the stuff that came from it. And you can 657 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,760 Speaker 2: kind of step back and look at England going from 658 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 2: the people making sure the people fed themselves to making 659 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 2: sure that the people of England and other places like Australia, 660 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 2: New Zealand, Colonial America were supplying England like itself with 661 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 2: the food it needed to put out these goods that 662 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 2: it could then sell and continue to grow in wealth. 663 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 2: That's kind of the switch that happened. And you've mentioned 664 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 2: the British Navy, I mean, like they the enclosed wastes 665 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,400 Speaker 2: directly contributed to the rise of the British Navy because 666 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 2: those timbers were used for shipbuilding, and as the British 667 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 2: Navy grew more and more powerful, they had more and 668 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 2: more clout to colonize more and more places, increasingly brutally, 669 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,280 Speaker 2: so that they could extract raw materials to feed into 670 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,240 Speaker 2: the industrial machine in the cities of England. 671 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And this inspired the rest of the 672 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: world to go out and do likewise. As everything was 673 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 1: becoming more modern. It certainly inspired probably what happened in 674 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: Russia in eighteen sixty one when Alexander two said, you 675 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,799 Speaker 1: know what, no more serfdom in Russia. The landlords are 676 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: going to just basically what they did in England. The 677 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 1: landlords are going to get the best farming land serfs. 678 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 1: You can buy that land back, but you got to 679 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,319 Speaker 1: take out these big heavy loans from maybe even your 680 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,319 Speaker 1: landlord or maybe the state, and you should move to 681 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 1: the city. We got a rising growth in industry because 682 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 1: of the Industrial Revolution, just like in England, and we're 683 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 1: going to exploit you just like we did in England. 684 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 1: And that led eventually in part to the Russian Revolution. 685 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 2: It did, and I mean, that's like a legitimate response 686 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 2: to having your land stolen from you, uprising of peasants. 687 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 2: It's just happened to work in Russia, where it kept 688 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 2: getting tamped down by the government century after century. In England, 689 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 2: and so the government and the the wealthy interested parties 690 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 2: won out. But enclosure was so successful that Britain exported 691 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 2: it to its colonies and basically said we're doing the 692 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,799 Speaker 2: same thing here so that you guys can become more 693 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 2: and more efficient and provide more and more raw materials 694 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 2: for export back and it just didn't happen. Just in 695 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 2: the colonies. Scotland very famously had its highlands cleared of 696 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 2: thousands of Highlanders, like they just came in, just like 697 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:57,879 Speaker 2: they did to the peasant villages and said get out, 698 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 2: and if you don't, we've got sore and you don't 699 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 2: want these swords. Actually by that time they probably had 700 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:08,239 Speaker 2: muskets and such, but that was just they just kept 701 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,759 Speaker 2: doing it over and over and over again, and each 702 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 2: time it seems like it was a worse and worse 703 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:15,280 Speaker 2: thing morally speaking. 704 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, there are, believe it or not, still 705 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,279 Speaker 1: some commons today. Not every single one of them was 706 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 1: done away with. There's just a handful though. In Laxton, 707 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 1: apparently in North Nottinghamshire, they have an open field system. 708 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: They have three fields that they never enclosed and they 709 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:37,719 Speaker 1: are divided into strips just like the old days and 710 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,759 Speaker 1: farmed by tenants of that manor. And there's also a 711 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 1: guild called the Oxford Freemen who owned the town meadow 712 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 1: of that city and they can, you know, they can 713 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 1: pasture their cattle there and their horse and they can 714 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,839 Speaker 1: fish in the part of the Thames that runs alongside 715 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,280 Speaker 1: that I guess jointly owned or cared for meadow. 716 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, there are still places that survived. But 717 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 2: enclosure itself is done in Great Britain. It's been done 718 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 2: since the eighteen sixties. And the reason it came to 719 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,880 Speaker 2: an end was because those the middle class, the merchant class, 720 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 2: who became wealthy in the cities, said hey, we want parkland, 721 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,279 Speaker 2: We want places to be able to go and like 722 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,799 Speaker 2: have picnics and stuff, and this enclosure is eating up 723 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:27,600 Speaker 2: that land, so we need to stop enclosure. And so 724 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 2: they did. They created something called the Commons Preservation Society. 725 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,800 Speaker 2: They gained influence in Parliament, they gained support in parliament. 726 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,720 Speaker 2: There was an eighteen seventy six act called the Commons 727 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,880 Speaker 2: Act that said you can only enclose a piece of 728 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,279 Speaker 2: Great Britain if there's a public benefit of it, and 729 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 2: that group, the Commons Preservation Society, eventually created the National Trust, which, now, chuck, 730 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 2: here's the great twist of irony, protects the very same 731 00:39:56,120 --> 00:40:01,120 Speaker 2: hedges that created enclosure in the first place, and prevent 732 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:05,360 Speaker 2: farmers who want to tear up those hedges from tearing 733 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:10,640 Speaker 2: them up because they're protected by old enclosure acts. Wow, 734 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,839 Speaker 2: amazing stuff. Huh yeah, you got anything else? 735 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:16,040 Speaker 1: I got nothing else. 736 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 2: Well, let's say about fencing the comments or enclosure, and 737 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 2: I think that means we've just teed up listener. 738 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:29,000 Speaker 1: Now that's right. This is from Christina. Hey, guys, I 739 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,359 Speaker 1: was very interested in the episode and paganism, as I'm 740 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 1: a Christian who's always had an interest in respect for paganism. 741 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,240 Speaker 1: I wanted to clarify some comments you made about Easter 742 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,880 Speaker 1: and its roots and paganism. Yes, it is true that 743 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: many things we have about Easter are based on the 744 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 1: pagan celebration of Ostara. However, we often focus on that 745 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: to the neglect and misattribution of the influences of Judaism 746 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,800 Speaker 1: on Easter. In English and the Germanic languages, the holiday 747 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,880 Speaker 1: we call Easter was taken from the name Ostara. However, 748 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 1: in the Roman Romance languages and many other languages, the 749 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 1: name for that holiday is based on the Jewish Passover, 750 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 1: which is when Jesus is death and resurrection is supposed 751 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,920 Speaker 1: to have taken place. In Spanish it is Pascua, In 752 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:13,480 Speaker 1: Italian and Catalan it is Pascua, etc. The time of 753 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,759 Speaker 1: the year is also based on Jewish Passover. It's a 754 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 1: spring holiday, so when Christianity was moving through Western Europe, 755 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 1: it did coincide with Ostara. But that's not why Easter 756 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:23,880 Speaker 1: takes place in the spring. The bunnies and eggs and 757 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,560 Speaker 1: sun Sybolism are all pagan, but let's not ignore Christianity's 758 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:31,000 Speaker 1: origins out of Judaism and its influences on the day. 759 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,120 Speaker 2: Man, that's a great email. Who's that from? 760 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,600 Speaker 1: That's great? That's from Christina. She says, thanks a lot 761 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,239 Speaker 1: for what you do. I listen a lot to a 762 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,759 Speaker 1: lot of true crime, but I am happy that I 763 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: still have you, guys and stuff you missed in history class. 764 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,719 Speaker 1: Nice our compatriots Hallian Tracy to listen to now that 765 00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:50,279 Speaker 1: my baby is learning to talk and I need to 766 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 1: listen to less murder and more family friendly content. 767 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, we are pretty family friendly, aren't we. 768 00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:58,879 Speaker 1: Hey, we try to be not We do our best. 769 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 2: So thanks christ And that raised something that I realized 770 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,319 Speaker 2: we didn't mention when we were talking about evidence of 771 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 2: pagan roots still around today. Our days of the week 772 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:15,319 Speaker 2: are almost all rooted in paganism, like Thursday. Thursday, that's 773 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:19,360 Speaker 2: where that came from. Saturday is Saturn'sday, like all of 774 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:23,920 Speaker 2: the days of our week come from pagan gods. Essentially, 775 00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,960 Speaker 2: isn't that neat goats head Day? Yeah? Did you say 776 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:28,799 Speaker 2: goats head Day? 777 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:30,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, which became Monday. 778 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,960 Speaker 2: It's good stuff, buddy. Well, thanks again, Christina. If you 779 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,040 Speaker 2: want to be like Christina and send us in the email, 780 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,279 Speaker 2: especially a great one like that, you can send it 781 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,680 Speaker 2: off to stuff podcast adiheartradio dot com. 782 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 783 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:52,319 Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 784 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:58,760 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.