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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noel.

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Speaker 3: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Paul mission controlled decands. Most importantly, you are here.

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Speaker 3: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 3: Weird question came up a little bit a few weeks ago.

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Speaker 3: We were looking at episodes we wanted to cover, and

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Speaker 3: it hit us. We have never talked about the templars

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Speaker 3: for guys who love so much weird fiction and conspiracy.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of strange we never got to this one.

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Speaker 4: We did do an episode on the book Holy Grail,

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Speaker 4: Holy Blood, which I think is a very popular, like

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Speaker 4: kind of in conspiracy circles, you know, book about the

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Speaker 4: origins of the Nights Time. But I believe we interview

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Speaker 4: the daughter, but I do believe that might well have

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Speaker 4: covered it, and that was a little bit of a

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Speaker 4: different type of episode. But this topic is such red

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Speaker 4: meat for you know, for people that are interested in

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Speaker 4: this kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: Well, and we've covered the Order of Malta or the

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Speaker 2: Knights of Malta or they have so many.

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Speaker 3: Names, they have great passports.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, still in we covered that in video, so if

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Speaker 2: you want to check that out, head over to the

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Speaker 2: YouTube channel.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and today the poor fellow Soldiers of Christ and

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Speaker 3: of the Temple of Solomon, that's her whole name. They're

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Speaker 3: often kind of thought of as legends, you guys. That

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Speaker 3: reminded me of my favorite Indiana Jones film, Indiana Jones

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Speaker 3: and The Last Crusade, where there's that cool spoiler, there's

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Speaker 3: that cool chase scene at the very end, Indiana makes

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Speaker 3: sudden friends with this guy who was trying to kill

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Speaker 3: him or like three minutes. Yeah, yeah, and he's got it.

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Speaker 3: He shows like a cool tattoo and he says, ask yourself,

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Speaker 3: why do you seek the Cup of Christ? Is it

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Speaker 3: for his glory or for yours? And that's a that's

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Speaker 3: a direct reference to the Knights Templar. That's an English

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Speaker 3: adaptation of their motto. Yeah, and they're not around that well,

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Speaker 3: they're officially not around now, but they're the subject of

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Speaker 3: numerous conspiracies in the modern day. Here are the facts,

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Speaker 3: maybe we start with what we know for sure, because

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Speaker 3: the history is really surprising.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's super it's super cool to look into the

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Speaker 2: history because often you're going to find the history as

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Speaker 2: written by not necessarily the Knight's Templar, but maybe the

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Speaker 2: descendants of other orders that came from the Knights Templar

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Speaker 2: or that were gifted lands and other materials from the

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Speaker 2: Knights Templar. When you see third party history, it does

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Speaker 2: seem to verge a little bit or maybe there's more

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Speaker 2: context right when it's not being written by the order themselves. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but it is a.

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Speaker 2: Weird thing because the Knights Templar officially, as we're going

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Speaker 2: to learn, went away, So it is I don't know,

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Speaker 2: it's just very strange. But let's just talk about how

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Speaker 2: they were formed, why they were formed. They're a military order,

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Speaker 2: like a protecting order specifically for pilgrims who are generally

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Speaker 2: from you know areas in England or you know surrounding

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Speaker 2: areas like that. They were headed towards Jerusalem.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, they're warrior monks essentially when they first start off.

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Speaker 3: They are a religious based military orders, so they're kind

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Speaker 3: of like a paramilitary they're kind of like a private

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Speaker 3: group of mercenaries who happened to agree with the state

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Speaker 3: powers and state religion of the day, and they formed

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Speaker 3: during the Crusades, a series of religious wars starting between

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Speaker 3: like ten ninety five and ten ninety nine, so very

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Speaker 3: late into the eleventh century. And like you said, Matt,

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Speaker 3: these folks were part of a larger phenomenon in Western

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Speaker 3: Europe wherein the Christian forces said they were going to

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Speaker 3: stop the spread of Islam and the expansion of Muslim powers.

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Speaker 3: You can see all sorts of heavily romanticized depictions of

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Speaker 3: these crusades and all sorts of social media. I recently

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Speaker 3: rewatched the beginning of robin Hood Prince of Thieves. You guys,

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Speaker 3: remember that one those first ten minutes slap you know

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Speaker 3: what Iri wants, the beginning of Last Night Mennetites, Yes, Sir,

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Speaker 3: in honor of Richard Lewis r I P. But they

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Speaker 3: take very parallel paths. Both deals discuss the Crusades, just

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Speaker 3: one a little more ridiculously than the other. But yeah, no,

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Speaker 3: that movie Robinhood Prince of Thieves was a big one

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Speaker 3: for me growing up as well.

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Speaker 2: But the actual Crusades, as you.

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Speaker 5: Said, goody sorry, not good YEA.

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Speaker 2: Heavily romanticized but dang, just so much death.

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Speaker 4: The very delation of a holy war, right, I mean

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Speaker 4: waging a holy war to eradicate a faith that contradicts

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Speaker 4: your own.

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Speaker 2: Individual and collective acts of in my opinion, pure evil,

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Speaker 2: of just wanton destruction and violence in the name of

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Speaker 2: good and God.

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Speaker 3: It's what we call total war. You know, like civilians

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Speaker 3: were considered combatants because of their religions. Unbelievable, unbelievable, but

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Speaker 3: you have to be right, right, humans human I mean

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Speaker 3: the Crusaders, though, it was kind of like our earlier

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Speaker 3: conversation about calling something the Department of Defense when it

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Speaker 3: proactively does bad things. So the Crusaders said, oh, we're

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Speaker 3: a protective force. We're reclaiming land for our spiritual beliefs.

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Speaker 3: But they, despite the fact that they said they were

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Speaker 3: against Muslim expansion, they actively also expanded sought to expand

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Speaker 3: the rule of Christianity in other non related areas.

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Speaker 4: Kind of makes Batman's nickname hit a little different, doesn't it.

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Speaker 4: The Dark Knight, the Caped Crusader, Oh, the capes Crusader. Oh,

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Speaker 4: I just never really thought about the context of that.

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Speaker 3: Word before.

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Speaker 4: I guess it has gone on to maybe mean more

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Speaker 4: like someone who's trying to right wrongs or whatever. But

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Speaker 4: it was sure very specifically branded around these exact specific crusades.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and a lot of that is sort of the

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Speaker 3: feedback loop of romanticizing history, which is written by the victors,

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Speaker 3: you know. So to your point, Matt, about people writing

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Speaker 3: with the benefit of retrospect, especially when they're as we'll see,

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Speaker 3: when they're writing about people who are not around, you know,

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Speaker 3: like if you don't want someone to be able to

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Speaker 3: share their side of the story or defend themselves, then

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Speaker 3: you just don't have them in the conversation. And that's

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Speaker 3: kind of what happens with the templars because it's an

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Speaker 3: easier Ah, we'll get into it, but yeah, morals and

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Speaker 3: ethics aside, the idea of the crusade sounds like a

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Speaker 3: lot of work.

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Speaker 2: It does. I think we have to continue to stress here.

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Speaker 2: One of the primary goals in these crusades is to

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Speaker 2: recapture places, like specific locations that includes you know, let's

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Speaker 2: say a castle or a religious site, or a place

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Speaker 2: that's known to have artifacts of historical or religious significance.

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Speaker 2: Taking taking those places back or defending those places.

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Speaker 3: Nice. Yeah, great point and good set up too, because

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Speaker 3: the we're talking about the levant right, the Holy Land

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Speaker 3: sites in that area, or sites that would be of

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Speaker 3: strategic interest between Europe or between Rome and Jerusalem. So Bethlehem,

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Speaker 3: Temple Mount, all the hits, all the good ones, and

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Speaker 3: a lot of the people who served in the Crusades

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Speaker 3: or participated in them from the Western side. They were

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Speaker 3: working for blood and treasure, and they were also working

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Speaker 3: through what they saw as a spiritual impetus. It was

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Speaker 3: your get out of Hell free card. So just like

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Speaker 3: you know, if you have some bad stuff in your

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Speaker 3: past and you join the French Foreign Legion, which I

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Speaker 3: promise I'll stop referencing at some point, please, don't you know?

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Speaker 4: Can I just say that you get out of Hell

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Speaker 4: free card is my favorite Monopoly play.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's a very intense version of monopoly from

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Speaker 3: the original Landlord's Game. But the idea was, no matter

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Speaker 3: what kind of horrible stuff you did back home, if

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Speaker 3: you were fighting with righteous cause, then all would be forgiven.

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Speaker 3: And that was kind of the pitch that the Powers

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Speaker 3: that Be made to nobles, tonights, to peasants, to pilgrims.

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Speaker 3: Pope Urban the Second had launched the first crusade in

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Speaker 3: what we say like ten nine five ten nine nine

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Speaker 3: around there, And as you can tell, there were multiple

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Speaker 3: crusades or multiple waves of this phenomenon because the fighting

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Speaker 3: went back and forth.

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Speaker 4: You know, I mean, the whole get out of hell

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Speaker 4: free card aspect of it is just such a sickening

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Speaker 4: paradox because it essentially empowered folks to feel righteous in

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Speaker 4: their rapings and pillagings and you know, stealing outright of

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Speaker 4: other people's properties and livelihoods.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, guys, before we get into this, I have a

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Speaker 2: misunderstanding here. I was looking a lot at some of

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Speaker 2: the other orders. One that you're mentioning here been the

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Speaker 2: Hospitallers or Hospitallers. I don't know exactly how to say it.

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Speaker 2: It's the group that was around for a long time

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Speaker 2: ended up becoming what we know is the Knights of

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Speaker 2: Malta or the Order of Malta. They've they've got a

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Speaker 2: crazy name too, the Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of Saint

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Speaker 2: John of Jerusalem, of Rhodes and of Malta.

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Speaker 3: How many of other things can he be of? But

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Speaker 3: that lament.

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Speaker 2: In order to gain like the upper levels and some

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Speaker 2: of the like the knighthood essentially those or in that

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Speaker 2: organization and the organizations that came before it, you had

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Speaker 2: to be of noble descent and you had to prove nobility,

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Speaker 2: which is a really interesting thing to me when we're

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Speaker 2: talking about these crusades, right, it's trying to get as

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Speaker 2: much support as you can, get as many fighting men

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Speaker 2: at the time as you can, but you're also being

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Speaker 2: led by people of the upper crust of society who

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Speaker 2: are actual knights.

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Speaker 3: Kind of like World War One?

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Speaker 2: Is it? How is it? Tell me about that because

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: So officer class, at least for the British in World

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Speaker 3: War One was often going to be people who were

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Speaker 3: born from the higher end of the socioeconomic spectrum because,

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Speaker 3: similar to the Crusades, it was seen as an ideological

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Speaker 3: spiritual conflict and also democracy famously not really a thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, put the important people on the ridge overlooking the battlefield.

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Speaker 3: Right right.

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Speaker 4: And I guess my question too has been was this

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Speaker 4: was there a traditional warfare.

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Speaker 3: Aspect to this? Like absolutely there was, Okay, so there

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Speaker 3: was like.

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Speaker 4: A battlefield and like a front line, So It wasn't

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Speaker 4: literally just people swinging swords at peasants.

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Speaker 3: There were folks.

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Speaker 4: Defending their faith again the incoming crusaders.

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Speaker 3: There were folks defending There were tons of what we

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Speaker 3: will call war crimes, because you know, every war is

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Speaker 3: a grab for resources, right, and you can paint it

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Speaker 3: however you wish. You can believe in different ideologies partastic, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: they were. They were definitely hitting what we will call

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Speaker 3: peasant villages or coming in and saying, you know, whatever

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Speaker 3: evil we do is in the service of this greater good.

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Speaker 3: We've got our get out of Hell free card, you know,

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Speaker 3: so even if we die in the pursuit, it's okay.

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Speaker 2: I get all that.

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Speaker 4: I guess my question is who were they fighting against?

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Speaker 4: Who Maybe we're actually somewhat up to the task.

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Speaker 3: Uh, then those would be those would be military forces

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Speaker 3: of on the side of Islam, got it. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 3: a picture different, like caliphates and empires or warlords. But

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Speaker 3: then also, you know, an they thought wasn't Christian? And

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Speaker 3: I love that we're pointing out the different religious orders

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Speaker 3: because the templars weren't the only ones, The hospitallers weren't

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Speaker 3: the only ones. There were multiple orders of Nights, still

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Speaker 3: doing that same hierarchical nobility kind of thing, and they

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Speaker 3: each had their own area of focus or like their

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Speaker 3: spin on the belief system or their expertise. And in

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Speaker 3: the beginning, the Templars were a pretty small group. The

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Speaker 3: Crusades have already been happening. When these guys come into

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Speaker 3: play in like eleven nineteen Common era, we're talking such

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Speaker 3: a small group, like such a small rap crew size.

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Speaker 3: It's like eight or nine dudes. They're all French Knights,

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Speaker 3: and they say, we are going to be a defensive force.

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Speaker 3: We're going to protect all these pilgrims traveling to Jerusalem because,

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Speaker 3: as we'll see, travel was the icy at the time.

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Speaker 3: And they were.

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Speaker 4: Almost like an escort like kind of right, like a

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Speaker 4: very evil Triple A for.

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Speaker 3: Me, guys keep behind the curtain waiting on Triple A.

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Speaker 3: Not currently. So they also had very interesting real estate.

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Speaker 3: They were given quarters near the Temple Mount of Jerusalem,

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Speaker 3: and that's where their name comes from, the Knights Templar,

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Speaker 3: or their street name, because their other name is just

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Speaker 3: too long to keep saying. And they had these vowels.

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Speaker 3: They had a thing like a manifesto called the Templar

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Speaker 3: Rule capital R, and the Templar Rule would become darkly

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Speaker 3: hilarious and ironic over time because it included things like

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Speaker 3: vows of chastity and vows of poverty, and then really

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Speaker 3: specific rules for how they had to fight wars, and

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Speaker 3: their entire lives were very closely regimented, like even unto

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Speaker 3: how they could dress or when in what they could eat,

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Speaker 3: like were two guys had to share one bowl they

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Speaker 3: got meat every other day.

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Speaker 2: It's really similar to Cistercian living. It's spelled cis t

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Speaker 2: e er cia n so like monastic guidance and rules,

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Speaker 2: and it's specifically in that poverty and where basically all

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Speaker 2: your ant chastity, but all you're doing is work and

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Speaker 2: it's not at the time. It's not like you're getting

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Speaker 2: paid a bunch of money for that work, right, you

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Speaker 2: were just doing that work because you were called to

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Speaker 2: do that work and it is your duty.

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Speaker 4: Essentially, these guys were almost like heavily armed monks, right,

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Speaker 4: like I mean super devout and evangelical I guess for

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Speaker 4: lack of a better term, where they really took this stuff,

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Speaker 4: every aspect of it to the letter, very very seriously.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they all took it very seriously, we believe, especially

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Speaker 3: or at least in the beginning. And about ten percent

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Speaker 3: at its height, about ten percent of the total population

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Speaker 3: of the Templars were actual warrior monks. Again and and

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Speaker 3: that's that sounds like a very small number, but we

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Speaker 3: have to remember, like in modern militaries even today, the

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Speaker 3: bulk of the people working there are infrastructure. You know

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Speaker 3: what I mean. You can't have Uh it's difficult, I

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Speaker 3: should say, to have one hundred percent of your people

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Speaker 3: be that forward line, you know, because it takes a

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Speaker 3: lot to build that line in the first place.

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Speaker 2: Can I just say my favorite Diblo three character I

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Speaker 2: ever made was a monk, and I was like a

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Speaker 2: warrior monk, and I just loved that concept. Yeah that's cool,

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Speaker 2: someone that doesn't do anything but meditates and then kicks

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Speaker 2: butt with theirs like the wind.

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Speaker 3: Gosh, yes, I love it too. I've always wanted to

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Speaker 3: play a monk in some role playing games, but they're often,

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Speaker 3: at least in the D and D universe, they're super underpowered,

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Speaker 3: which is sad. They should be the they should be Bruce

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Speaker 3: lle right, they should be the most powerful.

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Speaker 4: I forget the name of the class. But in elden Ring,

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Speaker 4: which I admittedly never finished, I was the kind of

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Speaker 4: cleric I guess with the that had like a almost

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Speaker 4: like a blind swordsman kind of vibe, like had like

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Speaker 4: the thing. And I really love that vibe too, because

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Speaker 4: that implies like I don't need no eyes.

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Speaker 3: I got the eyes of God working on my side.

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Speaker 3: You know that's the the incantation class, right, I believe

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Speaker 3: that's right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so high des class that had these clause

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Speaker 2: It was so awesome.

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Speaker 3: Oh man, I need to revisit.

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Speaker 4: I did that dumb thing where I got to a

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Speaker 4: place where I just wasn't powered up enough to compete,

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Speaker 4: and it frustrated me so much that I just gave up.

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Speaker 2: But boy am I kicking.

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Speaker 4: But at Skyrim now, guys, a ten year old game

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Speaker 4: that compared to elden Ring is like a walk in

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Speaker 4: the park.

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Speaker 3: But it's it's a ten year game. You can play

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Speaker 3: for ten years, dude. It's unbelievably modern feeling.

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Speaker 4: The only thing that sets that you know, makes it

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Speaker 4: feel older is sometimes the character facial movements.

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Speaker 3: That's it. The the what's the word. Environments are unbelievably immersive.

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Speaker 4: I'm in winter Hold now, I just joined the college anyway, Sorry,

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Speaker 4: we're nerds.

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Speaker 3: No safe travels man. Also, I'm now altern on skyroom

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Speaker 3: just to walk around exactly with similar mission. But the so,

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Speaker 3: these guys, the Templars, they have this amazing real estate.

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Speaker 3: They're pretty hardcore about their beliefs and they they are

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Speaker 3: very very popular with the Christian powers that be, the

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Speaker 3: power structure of the time, and a lot of it,

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Speaker 3: weirdly enough, goes down to a very good promotional campaign.

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Speaker 3: All right, propaganda. I'm making it sound nicer than it is.

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Speaker 3: A co founder of the group is a guy named

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Speaker 3: pardon the French here. Bernard des clare and Claveau is

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Speaker 3: a French monk. He later chieves sainthood. He's canonizes, he

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Speaker 3: becomes the patron saint of to your point, Matt, Sistercians, Cistercians.

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Speaker 2: I saw his Cistercians, but makes yeah crustaceans.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I got to kick it with more monks. Uh.

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Speaker 3: So he's also the patron state of beekeepers and candle

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Speaker 3: makers several specific locations, and of course the Knight's Templar.

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Speaker 3: This dude is so good at marketing. He is very

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Speaker 3: successful at making templar membership the thing to do for

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Speaker 3: the noble class.

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Speaker 2: Ah, okay, okay, so you you want it. You're a

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Speaker 2: noble and you want to be a knight. You gotta

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Speaker 2: do this, man.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the hot move, right.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 3: And so hospitallers and templars for minu they have kind

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Speaker 3: of a Pepsi coke rivalry with membership. They kind of

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Speaker 3: have like a Princeton Yale thing going on. But because

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Speaker 3: this guy is so successful at this, and partially due

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Speaker 3: to social pressures at the time, the way inheritance works

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Speaker 3: in these landholding families. Because of all these factors, templar

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Speaker 3: membership explodes. It grows very quickly. Over the next two

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Speaker 3: hundred years, which is a long time, they become an

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Speaker 3: international private fighting force and much much more than that, dude.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a private, private fighting force that has loads of money. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 2: well okay, So if you look at Cistercian living like

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Speaker 2: right now in twenty twenty four, there are still a

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Speaker 2: lot of monks, this is one way to describe them,

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Speaker 2: who live in monasteries, and those monasteries make money, not

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Speaker 2: the monks themselves, but the monasteries make money by doing

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Speaker 2: things like growing fruit and wheat to make let's say,

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Speaker 2: a fruitcake or something that they sell which is common,

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Speaker 2: or back in the day brewing beer which would then

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Speaker 2: be sold.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: So, like the monastery itself, the organization ends up making

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Speaker 2: a lot of money, but usually that doesn't transfer to

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Speaker 2: on an individual level because of the vows they are taken,

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Speaker 2: because of the way it's set up.

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Speaker 4: You know, it pays for upkeep and such and goes

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Speaker 4: back into the organization, I guess to a degree and

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Speaker 4: probably enriches higher ups, you know, up the chain.

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Speaker 2: But it's different with the templars.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, in the beginning, they're supposed to be individually impoverished, right,

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Speaker 3: like so many other ascetic movements. And you can go

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Speaker 3: to if you are lucky enough to live near a

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Speaker 3: nunnery or a monastery, go check it out. Yeah, get

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Speaker 3: you to it. Yeah. We've got a great one near

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Speaker 3: near Atlanta out in Conyers called Our Lady of the

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Speaker 3: Holy Spirit, and they do not have a loitering law.

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Speaker 3: They have classed it up. They have a nice little

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Speaker 3: bonzeye garden, they've got a gift shop in a museum.

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Speaker 3: It's a great day trip.

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Speaker 5: But those we still haven't done it, Ben, Can we

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Speaker 5: go together?

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Speaker 3: Can we play this year? Maybe the three of us

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Speaker 3: could go together. I would love that.

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Speaker 2: It's a lovely trip. Yeah, I would do that anytime.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a lot of fun, and they've got anyway.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to rant too much about or rave

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Speaker 3: too much about them. But the modern monks you see

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Speaker 3: are very much not the templars, very much not. These

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Speaker 3: guys would actually tangle at their height. There were twenty

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Speaker 3: thousand people, of which, as we said, ten percent were

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Speaker 3: what you would call forward line like warrior monks. And

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Speaker 3: for a while, for a couple of centuries, it was

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Speaker 3: pretty swell to be a templar like you were, mister Popular. They,

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Speaker 3: like you said, Matt, they become incredibly wealthy. They get

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Speaker 3: super into real estate because they get a lot of

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Speaker 3: spoilers of war and you'd spoilers of war, which spoils

384
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Speaker 3: of war, but also spoilers resources. Yeah, holy grail, melted faces. Jeez.

385
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Speaker 3: So they so as they are becoming more and more successful,

386
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Speaker 3: their former allies, the the nobility in particular, start to

387
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Speaker 3: find the nobility and the Catholic Church they find the

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Speaker 3: templars increasingly concerning.

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Speaker 2: Well, Yeah, when you have that much power and maybe

390
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,640
Speaker 2: as another very powerful organization you're making moves or having

391
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,880
Speaker 2: to make decisions that aren't popular with this other popular

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Speaker 2: group that is really powerful. That could be that could

393
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Speaker 2: be bad.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and think about it.

395
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Speaker 4: I mean this is at a time and history or sure,

396
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Speaker 4: of course the Catholic Church has been around for a while,

397
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Speaker 4: but I mean the playing field is a lot more

398
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Speaker 4: level that. You know, with the templar, they're getting so

399
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Speaker 4: much power of wealth that they have the potential to

400
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Speaker 4: even like maybe overthrow the papal See or whatever the

401
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Speaker 4: Holy See.

402
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 3: Possible secessionism, right, they could move to becoming a state's power.

403
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Speaker 2: Well, but this is also game of throne stuff, right, Yeah,

404
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,160
Speaker 2: because you're you're talking about different kings who are trying

405
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 2: to put their hands in religious issues that are coming

406
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 2: up to control, like everything from where the like pope

407
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 2: lives in controls, Like there's a lot going on in

408
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Speaker 2: history around this time when it comes to the rulers,

409
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Speaker 2: like the kings.

410
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 3: Who gets to be the pope? You know? Yeah, and

411
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 3: so you're right, let's introduce our buddy heavy p aka

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Speaker 3: King Philip the fourth of France. He's very angry with

413
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Speaker 3: the Templars. As public opinions starts to sour, rumors begin

414
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Speaker 3: to spread, you know, like, how did these guys get

415
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 3: so successful? How do you become a templar? What are

416
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 3: they really doing in there? What's he building in there?

417
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 3: And King Philip totally agrees with these rumors, because behind

418
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 3: the curtain, behind the throne, he is up to his

419
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 3: neck in debt with the Templars. He owes this group money,

420
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 3: so when he sees public opinions start to shift in

421
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:21,360
Speaker 3: the wind, he leverages it as an attempt to get

422
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 3: out of debt the fastest way possible by killing the

423
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Speaker 3: people that you owe money to.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but but I think his end goal right

425
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Speaker 2: is to take them out or at least remove that

426
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 2: organization to which he owes all that money. But he

427
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 2: does it in this political intrigue way. Guys, with this dude,

428
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 2: one of the popes, Pope Clement the Fifth, it's a

429
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 2: real little finger kind of move right to the way

430
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 2: it plays out, And there's so much detail we're not

431
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 2: gonna be able to get into all of it today,

432
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Speaker 2: but we would highly recommend that you check out Pope

433
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Speaker 2: Clement the Fifths, all the papal bulls he put out

434
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 2: and the meetings that he had, because the Templars had

435
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 2: a really strong presence in France, like basically looming over

436
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 2: the King's shoulder there going you still owes a lot

437
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 2: of money, and so he got the Pope to make

438
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 2: moves against the organization.

439
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because they again they are talking the talk

440
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 3: right of following the Catholic Church. Therefore, the Pope should

441
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 3: be the highest authority on the planet. And if the

442
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 3: Pope says jumped, they have to jump. But the Pope

443
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 3: is human and is also therefore vulnerable to political pressures

444
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 3: or geopolitical pressures, and so heavy p says, we're going

445
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 3: to weaponize these rumors, and he goes to Pope Clement

446
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 3: in thirteen oh seven and he says, you need to

447
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 3: find all the Templars in France, and you need to

448
00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 3: arrest them, get them to confess to these rumors, and

449
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 3: then kill them. And the Pope, by the way later

450
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 3: sort of exonerates these guys, but he moves with the

451
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 3: wind of King Philip's power. And so it's like a

452
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 3: scene in Breaking Bad with all those prison executions happening

453
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 3: in two minutes on the morning of Friday, October thirteenth,

454
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:25,919
Speaker 3: thirteen oh seven, authorities raid the Paris headquarters of the Templars,

455
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 3: arrest everyone they find if they don't kill them there,

456
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 3: and then they go to every known member's home at

457
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 3: the same time and do the same thing. This is

458
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 3: not enough for heavy p We know this because a

459
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 3: few days or a few years later, in thirteen twelve,

460
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 3: like you said, Matt, the escalation through the pope continues.

461
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 3: He says, you, as the Pope, have to officially disband

462
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 3: this order. And so thirteen twelve is commonly considered the

463
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 3: official end of the Knight's Templar.

464
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, King Philip, the fourth crafty dude.

465
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 4: On paper though, right, But then the conspiracy thrives that

466
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 4: they went underground or that they.

467
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, some survived, right, and the practices and knowledge

468
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 2: that was associated with being a templar, right, that kind

469
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 2: of secret of stuff near the top. The idea is

470
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 2: that that got preserved and passed down in some way

471
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 2: and probably absorbed into another organization or organizations.

472
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then with that also is the idea that

473
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 3: perhaps some of the mysterious artifacts and relics they found

474
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 3: had power, and that those continued so the idea is

475
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 3: that Templars went underground, they went off the grid. But

476
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 3: we got to think about that for a moment, because

477
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 3: imagine you're just the average person living there. Right. Maybe

478
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 3: you have done well enough in life and you were

479
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 3: fortunate enough to make a pilgrimage to a holy site

480
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 3: in the Middle East or the Levante, and then you

481
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 3: you were fortunate enough to come back, and you probably

482
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 3: had involvement with the Templars if you did those things.

483
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 3: And so from your perspective, one of the most popular

484
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 3: powerful forces on Earth, as you know it, suddenly becomes

485
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 3: public enemy number one and then disappears. As a result,

486
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 3: it's no surprise there would be so many bizarre stories

487
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 3: and theories about them. Tonight's question, how many, if any

488
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 3: of those stories are true.

489
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 4: Well, we're gonna get right into that after a quick

490
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 4: word from our sponsors.

491
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 3: Templar pedic mattress.

492
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 4: That's fun.

493
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 3: That's fun, ben, I don't dislike that at all.

494
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 2: Good does not allow fornication of any sort or marriage.

495
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 2: Sex cannot have it on this bed.

496
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 3: But there's a there is a guaranteed human head in

497
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 3: every mattress.

498
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 2: Oh lord, wow, guys, Before we get into this, I

499
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 2: just want to give a couple of things for people

500
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 2: to search up. And I want to ask you guys

501
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 2: about the papal bulls.

502
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 3: Right.

503
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 2: The bulay, I think is how that would be the

504
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 2: plural of that. I didn't know much about this, but

505
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 2: I think we've mentioned it before in another episode.

506
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 4: But yeah, because I think I just remarked on what

507
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 4: a bizarre sounding thing it is, and it's just it's

508
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 4: a declaration, right, a proclamation.

509
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 2: A decree, right, a public decree by the pope, which

510
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 2: is a kind of yeah, but it was always written

511
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 2: in like scroll format and.

512
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 3: These formal language, I'm sure, oh yeah, but the the

513
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 3: what is it?

514
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 2: What were they called? It was the pieces of clay

515
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 2: that you would attach or lad that you would attach

516
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 2: to like seal up one of these official writings. Some

517
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 2: of the history that is so fascinating and I just

518
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 2: didn't know any of it before looking into this episode.

519
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,479
Speaker 2: Look up vox in excelso, which is one of these

520
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 2: papal bulls, which is the one that was basically like saying, hey, templars,

521
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 2: you're done it. I'm playing Hogwarts Legacy right now, guys,

522
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 2: which is another video game. Sorry, but it sounds like

523
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 2: a spell that you had cast vox in excelso petronas surrectum.

524
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 3: Like Cardi B's real name.

525
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 2: Wait, it's a one, it's a lot, I'll give it

526
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 2: to you.

527
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 3: Cardi B's real name is Bell Callus Marlettas Cephis, which

528
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 3: sounds like a Harry Potter spell.

529
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 2: It is.

530
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy. There are there's so many theories,

531
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 3: conspiratorial theories about the Knights Templar and what happened to them, right,

532
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 3: And it's it's kind of like if you have friends

533
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,239
Speaker 3: and are both fans of a band with a very

534
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 3: deep catalog, you end up choosing your own favorite theories

535
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 3: or albums, right well.

536
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 4: Especially if you guys feel like, let's say it's like

537
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 4: a David Bowie or something where there are very distinct

538
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 4: eras and vibes that like, you know, oh, I'm a

539
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 4: big eighties Bowie fan, or some people are more into

540
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 4: like the email records or whatever. Not to say they

541
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 4: would necessarily disagree over one being better than the other,

542
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 4: but a deep catalog sometimes implies blind spots for certain people,

543
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 4: and that's certainly the case with these conspiracy theories.

544
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's explore some of the biggest ones. As we said,

545
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 3: we're not going to get to everything, folks, because it

546
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 3: is pretty dense. We would love to hear your own

547
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 3: takes on this. It's kind of like the buffet version

548
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 3: of conspiracy folklore. So just stroll around with us tonight,

549
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 3: add what you like to your plate. I think maybe

550
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 3: the first thing we talked about the finance. The finance

551
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 3: conspiracies very interesting because at least one is true.

552
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, these guys, we're fine financial innovators. Think right now,

553
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 2: if you have if you use a bank, right, let's

554
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 2: say you're in the city where you live, and then

555
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 2: you have to take a flight to a different city.

556
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 2: Let's say somewhere in Minnesota. You land in Minnesota, your

557
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 2: bank probably has a branch in you know, in Minnesota

558
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 2: nearer to where you landed, and you could go get

559
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 2: money out from that bank, that same bank from you know,

560
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 2: in a completely different place where you deposited your money

561
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 2: or your company put that money into your bank in

562
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 2: some other state. Right, that's a given easy. That wasn't

563
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 2: always the case, right, if you had a bank somewhere,

564
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 2: that money was in that bank that particular place, if

565
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 2: you could go get it. Think of it's almost like

566
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 2: a security deposit. It's more like that you can go

567
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 2: in and get your money if you need to, but

568
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 2: your bank's going to protect it. These guys, the Templars

569
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 2: figured out early on that some people might need to

570
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 2: get money in a different place.

571
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, which led to their success to set that up.

572
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 3: Let's note this. Here's the real, the genuine, provable conspiracy.

573
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 3: It is that King Philip conspired to wipe these guys out.

574
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 3: That is true. That is an actual conspiracy. You might

575
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 3: ask yourself, how does a king of all people get

576
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 3: in debt with a private group, a private military like

577
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 3: the Templars. It's because, you know, ten percent fighters and

578
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 3: the rest of them are sort of finance bros. Dude.

579
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 4: This totally reminds me of Game of Throwne stuff. There

580
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 4: was the Iron Bank, the Golden Compass or no, that's

581
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 4: a different thing, the Golden Company, and they were basically

582
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 4: a giant, militarized group of cell swords that are completely

583
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 4: in the pocket of the Iron Bank. That's obviously something

584
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 4: George R. Martin was very familiar with this type of history.

585
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, like, like we're saying, you could go to

586
00:34:55,360 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 3: their headquarters in England, the Temple Church in London would

587
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 3: deposit funds there and they would issue in exchange a

588
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 3: certificate sort of a cod a certificate a deposit, and

589
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 3: then you could go on your pilgrimage. If you survived,

590
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 3: when you got to Jerusalem, you would exchange that piece

591
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 3: of paper for the appropriate amount of money or the

592
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 3: value of whatever you deposited way back in England. And

593
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 3: this was a huge game changer because pilgrimage is very,

594
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 3: very popular. After the First Crusade, there's some Christian control

595
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 3: of Jerusalem, but it's incredibly dangerous. It's like a two

596
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 3: month journey if everything works out.

597
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,839
Speaker 4: Am I being conspiratorial and within the conspiracy to think

598
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 4: that there's some inherent grift involved in this?

599
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:50,479
Speaker 3: Like is this fair?

600
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 4: Like were people actually getting their money if they.

601
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 3: Get where okay minus a percentage, Okay, there lies the grit,

602
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 3: But that's just the grift of banking, like your banking fees.

603
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 2: Now yeah, yeah, and you can you know, use all

604
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 2: of that money that's in the bank to make loans

605
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,240
Speaker 2: and all kinds of stuff, which is again feels contrary

606
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 2: to you know, the Bible, but whatever.

607
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 4: Whatever, all that stuff about the money changers and Jesus

608
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 4: knocking over the the you know, the tables and the whatever.

609
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 2: Like.

610
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 4: It does feel like this is very contradictory to what

611
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 4: the teachings of Christ would encourage.

612
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 3: And again in the beginning, these templar members are saying, yes,

613
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 3: we get a percentage. However, this is not usury because

614
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 3: it's not going to us, it's going to the greater

615
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,240
Speaker 3: goods though.

616
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 4: Right, I mean, like you said, this was set aside,

617
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 4: a set apart from the way monasteries worked. The structure

618
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 4: of it was much more self serving, wouldn't you say.

619
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 3: I think it's fair to say it evolved into that

620
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 3: over time, right, But in the beginning they were definitely monastic,

621
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:04,240
Speaker 3: like you would you would have basic the Crusade's version

622
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 3: of paying your household utilities and then all the other

623
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 3: stuff doesn't go to you. It goes to build another

624
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:17,320
Speaker 3: house or to further your aim. And this is a

625
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 3: really great and necessary thing for religious pilgrims, Christian pilgrims

626
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 3: going to the Holy Land, because those like the two

627
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 3: months perfect journey time from Italy to Jerusalem, it almost

628
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 3: never happened because as you traveled you would run into

629
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,240
Speaker 3: things like sickness, war and the constant threat of robbery,

630
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 3: all problems which became more severe and more likely the

631
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 3: further you got from home. People got jacked all the time.

632
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 3: They got robbed all the time because they had to

633
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 3: carry a bunch of valuable stuff with them so that

634
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 3: they didn't starve on the way. You know, you have

635
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 3: to sleep somewhere, have to eat something, you have to

636
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 3: bribe a lot of officials. And these pilgrims they're not

637
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:11,760
Speaker 3: badass monks, you know, they're regular people. So they usually

638
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 3: don't have weapons. They might not have security, kind of

639
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 3: like herd animals. The best safety they have is numbers,

640
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 3: so they try to move in a big unit and

641
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 3: then that just makes the predators evolve.

642
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's lots of opportunists at the time. And

643
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 2: also it's been a war torn area that you've got

644
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 2: to make your way through to get to Jerusalem, no

645
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 2: matter where you're aheading from. So you know, good luck,

646
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 2: I guess, very very dangerous.

647
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 3: Go with God. Literally, indeed, it's a war zone. They

648
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 3: are walking through a war zone pretty often. I want

649
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 3: to go to Big Think a great piece by Tim Brinkoff.

650
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 3: He's got a quote that I think sums up just

651
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 3: how genius the idea of this remote banking was so

652
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 3: the part of the Templars. Yeah, absolutely, he says.

653
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 4: For most European pilgrims, getting robbed was simply a risk

654
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 4: they had to take if they wanted to reach the

655
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 4: place where Jesus Christ was believed to have been crucified

656
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 4: and resurrected. British travelers, however, had a way to minimize

657
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 4: that risk. In London, there was an organization known as

658
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 4: the Temple Church where pilgrims could deposit a portion of

659
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 4: their savings. In return, they were given a letter of

660
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 4: credit that they could use to withdraw their savings once

661
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 4: they reached Jerusalem. So this was literally in response to

662
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 4: the rampant muggings, for lack of a better term, that

663
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 4: was taken. So this gave people the ability to not

664
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 4: have to carry all of their earthly wealth along with

665
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 4: them and then it would be waiting for them on

666
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 4: the other end, because there was such high demand from

667
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 4: making this trip and it was so perilous. So, you know,

668
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 4: the more I think about it, it's a pretty cool

669
00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 4: service being offered, I would say, you know, and it's

670
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 4: also a system that is incentivized to be reliable.

671
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 3: So it's because otherwise it's a heck of a trust fall,

672
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 3: isn't it to say, here, I'm going to give you

673
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 3: the equivalent of several years worth of everything I've worked for,

674
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 3: And I just hope the little letter you wrote me

675
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 3: matters when I get to this place I've never visited before,

676
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 3: a foreign country. This did make the pilgrimage way safer.

677
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 3: I mean, sure people still got robbed all the time

678
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 3: and murdered and maimed and assaulted, but there's not really

679
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 3: a better defense from a mugging than to not have

680
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 3: anything to mug well, yeah, what I mean.

681
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 2: And you also have the templars who are stationed along

682
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 2: the routes there who can actually physically defend you.

683
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 3: Right.

684
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 2: It's like a little part of the service, little perk.

685
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. And you know, they probably didn't call it this

686
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 3: because marketing wasn't what it is today, but they definitely

687
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 3: had like premium travelers, you know, like pilgrimage plus. Ooh,

688
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 3: that's what they would call it. Pilgrimage plus. Where you

689
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 3: know you're the child of a noble family or you

690
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 3: yourself are an aristocrat of some sort. They want to

691
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,320
Speaker 3: shepherd you through safely, and then later they want to

692
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 3: come back to you and say like, hey, yeah, happy

693
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 3: with your service, because we would love to not pay taxes.

694
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 3: This is again all for God, right, we would love

695
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 3: a donation since we saved your kid right in Jerusalem.

696
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 3: And more often than not, the monarchs assented, they said yes,

697
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 3: and they.

698
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 2: Had a really good thing going until as history has

699
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 2: shown us, the area Jerusalem exchanged hands again, as it

700
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 2: would several other times after this. But it was in

701
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 2: what twelve forty four.

702
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, yeah, twelve forty four. Some I love that

703
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:07,720
Speaker 3: you said self swords earlier. Some mercenary armies from modern

704
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 3: day in northern Iraq, they come in and they take

705
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 3: over Jerusalem. And this is a bloody battle. Like we said,

706
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 3: it had already been fortified by the occupying powers, so

707
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:21,919
Speaker 3: they paid in blood to overtake the city.

708
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 4: So at this point, the Holy Land is no longer

709
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:29,240
Speaker 4: under European control, and European pilgrims as a result, stopped

710
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 4: making those popular pilgrimages. Without those there was no reason

711
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 4: for that system anymore, the one where they placed their

712
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 4: savings with the Temple.

713
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,760
Speaker 2: Church, and that caused the holdings.

714
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 4: Of this let's just call it what it is, you know,

715
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 4: Holy Bank, I guess to begin to dwindle. So this

716
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 4: began to be the start of kind of some cracks

717
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 4: forming in the strength and the armor of the old

718
00:42:58,640 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 4: knights Templar.

719
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 2: Those those Corasmian mercenaries were the original disruptors.

720
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 3: Guys. There we go. Yeah, they also I wonder you know,

721
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,760
Speaker 3: it's funny. I think mercenaries probably did do surge pricing.

722
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 2: Oh, marks at a premium, Like what's the demand?

723
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 3: They just set rate. That doesn't make sense. This is

724
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 3: what sets us apart a flat fee per city or civilization.

725
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 3: No searge priced.

726
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,800
Speaker 2: If I've learned anything from the quests where you have

727
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 2: to protect somebody along a route. I hate escort quest

728
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 2: I know they're awful, but they do change the price.

729
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:43,439
Speaker 2: Your reward changes depending on the route and the length

730
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 2: of time and the number of people you're protecting.

731
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 3: I'm just saying, and the health points at the end.

732
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 3: Hot take those guys.

733
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 4: I just don't see anything inherently wrong with quote unquote

734
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,760
Speaker 4: dynamic pricing if it's done within reason and it's tied

735
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 4: to supply chain issues like we were talking, or demand.

736
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:06,439
Speaker 4: Of course, you should be able to charge a little

737
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 4: more if your services are more in demand, you know,

738
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 4: because you're operating at like a premium and.

739
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:15,439
Speaker 3: It's almost like literally a service you're offering to even

740
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 3: be available at that time. Anyway, No, you're right, I

741
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 3: mean for pilgrimage plus, I've decided to call it, they have,

742
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 3: like the templars, have to be predictable, they have to

743
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 3: be reliable, they have to do what they said that

744
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 3: were going to do. And so long as pilgrims keep

745
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 3: pilgrimming business is good. To be very soulless about it,

746
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:42,359
Speaker 3: we're talking about inelastic demand. Right, People are still going

747
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 3: to go on pilgrimages. In fact, sometimes the worst stuff

748
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 3: gets in Europe, though more likely people are to travel

749
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 3: because they want to get right with God.

750
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 2: Well, so you got to get that emerald status of

751
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 2: pilgrimage plus, you know what I mean. Emerald status is

752
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 2: that better than diamond status.

753
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 3: It's rail status is better than diamond status. Yes, there

754
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 3: are so without these pilgrimages, they're still making money, just

755
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:16,800
Speaker 3: not as near as much, and they still get a

756
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:21,280
Speaker 3: lot of sweetheart benefits from different governments and state powers.

757
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 3: They still have a lot of people who owe them money.

758
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 3: But one guy who owes the money sees an opportunity,

759
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 3: and all heavy P swoops in suppresses silences the order,

760
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 3: and because they are suppressed, that means it was easy

761
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 3: for people to make all sorts of weird claims about them.

762
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 3: These claims grew more extravagant and bizarre over time. There

763
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 3: was a lot of vilification, appropriation like oh I am

764
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 3: actually my thing is the descendant of the Templars. And

765
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 3: it teaches us something really common again in human dynamics.

766
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 3: If you are afraid that someone will not fall for

767
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 3: your propaganda, you're afraid that someone will not stand for,

768
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 3: you know, character assassination, then just literally assassinate them or

769
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 3: silo them, remove them from the conversation. You can say

770
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,359
Speaker 3: whatever you want and it doesn't matter whether it's true.

771
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 3: And that's what happened with the Templars. That happens all

772
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:23,800
Speaker 3: the time, honestly.

773
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, all the time. And just as a reminder, heavy

774
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 2: P is King Philip the fourth of y.

775
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, so that's a good note. So we see

776
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:40,360
Speaker 3: this suppression, like there's a great article in the Conversation

777
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 3: by author Patrick Masters and he says, because the Templars

778
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,800
Speaker 3: were suppressed, there was no one to safeguard their legacy,

779
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:51,359
Speaker 3: and then all these other groups came in and said, yeah,

780
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 3: well we're actually the Templars now, you know, look at me,

781
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 3: I'm the captain. Now of the Templars.

782
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 2: Were Templars. But we do some of their practices, hold

783
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 2: some of their beliefs, and there's a lot of them.

784
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 2: And one of the I guess one of the next

785
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 2: things we're gonna talk about is some of the weirder

786
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 2: maybe religious beliefs and practices of the Templars because and

787
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 2: again it's often because of this association with Freemasonry and

788
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 2: Masonic orders of the time.

789
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:29,919
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, and a lot of these orders claiming even

790
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 3: today to be descendants of the Templars. They're not necessarily sinister,

791
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 3: you know, they're not like bad guys or whatever.

792
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,319
Speaker 4: But I mean the Shriners, like you know, basically put

793
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 4: all of their efforts into building children's hospitals and stuff

794
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 4: that has happened. To drive the tiny little weird cars

795
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 4: and wear funny hats. They do a lot of good.

796
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 2: Well, I would say, I would say, without exception, all

797
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 2: of the other orders that you know, in some way

798
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 2: absorbed part of the Templar legacy. They are all at

799
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 2: least front facing service organizations, all of them right, right, exactly,

800
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 2: even the Order of Malta, like it's it's about a hospital, man,

801
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 2: It's about providing services and good to the world through our.

802
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 3: Our faith, really, yeah, through the power of faith. Right,

803
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 3: And this idea of faith and religion plays a big

804
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 3: role because now society, civilization at the time, is confronted

805
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 3: with a murder mystery, Right, what happened to this powerful thing?

806
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 3: How is it here one day and then the next.

807
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 3: The juicier the story, the better, and that leads us

808
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,720
Speaker 3: to the moment we've all been waiting for our second

809
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 3: ad break. We've returned onward to the occult. So this

810
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 3: is the stuff you see about templars and fai, right,

811
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 3: this is all the juicy like Indiana Jones, Dan Brown

812
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 3: Catholic conspiracy stuff. There are accusations of occult rituals and

813
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 3: trafficking with infernal powers. They're saying the people who are

814
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,840
Speaker 3: on the front face supposed to be godly are actually

815
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:21,800
Speaker 3: quite the opposite. There's an enemy within. The call is

816
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 3: coming from inside the house. And this just kicks off

817
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,720
Speaker 3: when they arrest everybody. Because when they arrest all those folks.

818
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:33,760
Speaker 3: They get confessions appearing to confirm all this evil, magic,

819
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 3: dark sided stuff. You know what you did, you cross piers.

820
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 2: You guys. This comes from the stuff that Philip the

821
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 2: fourth got Pope Clement the fifth to do. And it's

822
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 2: that vox and excelsio excelso whatever it is. By the way,

823
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 2: my character's name is Duke Wellington in Hardwart's legacy. But

824
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 2: can I read just a little bit of this because

825
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 2: this is what they were accused of. And then this is,

826
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 2: I think, where all of these rumors come from. This

827
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:08,320
Speaker 2: is a reading from vox in excelso a papole decree

828
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 2: issued by Pope Clement the Fifth on the twenty second

829
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 2: of March thirteen twelve. Quote in view of the suspicion, infamy,

830
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 2: loud insinuations and other things which have been brought against

831
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 2: the Order, talking about the templars, and also the secret

832
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 2: and clandestine reception of the brother of this order, in

833
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 2: view moreover of the serious scandal which has arisen from

834
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,800
Speaker 2: these things just going on on a here we go

835
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 2: danger to faith and souls, with the many horrible things

836
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 2: which have been done by the very many of the

837
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,959
Speaker 2: brothers of this Order, and it talks about the sin

838
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:46,800
Speaker 2: of wicked apostasy, the crime of detestable idolatry, and the

839
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 2: execrable outrage of the Sodomites. That that's when he says,

840
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 2: it's not without bitterness and sadness of heart that we

841
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 2: abolish the order of the Temple. So it's just like

842
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:01,799
Speaker 2: the Pope is saying, these are accused of these horrible things,

843
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 2: and this is what they did.

844
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 3: Apostasy is Apostasy is also it's denying the existence of God,

845
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 3: and it is still a crime in some countries. Also,

846
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 3: like you said, the accusations of having same sex relationships,

847
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 3: they got very specific into acts of heresy, spitting, urinating

848
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 3: on the cross. So that's uh, but that's it's just contradicting.

849
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 2: It feels like the.

850
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 4: Kind of stuff that could be, you know, coerced in

851
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 4: during an act of torture.

852
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,759
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. It's also you can tell it's a

853
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 3: hit piece because it's contradictory. These folks say there is

854
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 3: no God, but then they also believe there is a

855
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 3: God enough to defame that thought's existence. Yes, you know,

856
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:50,399
Speaker 3: it's a very very good point, dude.

857
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 2: It's a bully move and we talked sping a bully

858
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 2: moves when they got arrested right and pulled from their

859
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:59,359
Speaker 2: houses all at the same time in that one big move. Uh,

860
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 2: it's it's not like they went to jail and they're like, hey,

861
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 2: confess to your sense. Well, they got.

862
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 3: Tortured, like capital t torture. Oh yeah, like this is

863
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 3: a little more dark jails, gnarly torture, more fingernails, no

864
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 3: more teeth, lead out slowly, kind of gut wound, rack stretching.

865
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, are you ready to confess yet? Of all these

866
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 2: things we accuse you.

867
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:26,319
Speaker 3: Of cross and branding, you know, probably equivalent waterboarding.

868
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, guys, we talk about these sort of extreme torture

869
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 4: techniques and how they lead to unreliable results, But have

870
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 4: you ever really put yourself in that situation?

871
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 3: Wouldn't you not only say whatever they wanted you to.

872
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 4: Say, but maybe even believe it a little bit, Like

873
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,800
Speaker 4: when your mind and body are just being twisted to

874
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 4: that degree. I think I could honestly say it and

875
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 4: make myself even believe that I had done it.

876
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 3: There are four lights star Trek reference.

877
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 1: Uh.

878
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:59,319
Speaker 3: But yeah, you're you're right. Psychologically it's a minefield. That's

879
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 3: why Confessions under duress are so tricky if you are.

880
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 3: It's similar to like cult indoctrination, because we've talked about

881
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 3: in the past. If you're just kept somewhere for hours

882
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 3: and hours and hours even today, and you're just repeatedly

883
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 3: gas lit and told the same things, then yeah, you

884
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 3: may end up believing it. And they don't have to

885
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 3: put their hands on you at all. These guys are

886
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 3: doing both.

887
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:25,320
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, exactly well, and at the hands of

888
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:28,799
Speaker 2: a freaking king that owed the group a ton of money,

889
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 2: so he wins either way, if you confess or not,

890
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:34,399
Speaker 2: because if you don't confess, you get tortured to death.

891
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 2: If you do confess, you get sentenced to You know,

892
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 2: you're the rest of your life in prison or death, the.

893
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 3: Most dangerous offer. You are going to die. It's up

894
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 3: to you how it goes. You can make it quick

895
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:51,839
Speaker 3: if you tell us why you worship a deity called

896
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 3: Bapha met shh.

897
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I think everybody who's listening to this knows

898
00:53:56,719 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 2: Baha met. The most familiar one you've probably seen, has

899
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:04,759
Speaker 2: the goat head right and often is doing the as

900
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 2: above so below motion with the hands and fingers isn't

901
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:09,840
Speaker 2: that also a.

902
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 4: Reference to some of the poses that are done in

903
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:16,920
Speaker 4: like imagery like of Christ and religious you know figures,

904
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 4: or they'll be doing the fingers up like the sort

905
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 4: of peace sign, but this one is like one of

906
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:22,240
Speaker 4: them is inverted.

907
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 3: Isn't that right? Are you accusing Christian symbolism of not

908
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 3: being entirely original? Well, yeah, you're right, though, I agree,

909
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:35,360
Speaker 3: you're absolutely right, Noel. This there's a book from nineteen

910
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 3: eighty seven whi's pretty great called The Knights Templar in

911
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 3: their Myth and the author Peter Partner, which gave me

912
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 3: a hard time. Still yeah, yeah, nominative determinism anybody, he said, yeah,

913
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 3: pen name name. He says that in the some of

914
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 3: the trials of the Templars, both as individuals and as

915
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 3: a group, the main charge, like the big problem, was

916
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:06,880
Speaker 3: that they were not worshiping God. They were worshiping a

917
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 3: different thing. This is where the idolatry comes in. They

918
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:13,359
Speaker 3: were worshiping an idol in the form of a head,

919
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 3: and it was called Baphomet and batha Met. Is interesting

920
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 3: because the Templars never talk about this before the trial.

921
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 3: There's not one piece of writing documentation internal or external

922
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 3: wherein they ever mentioned this thing. So the argument then

923
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 3: is that they never mention it because it is such

924
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:36,319
Speaker 3: a secret, because they are seeing worships washed.

925
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:39,879
Speaker 2: Okay, but hold on it. There is an intrigue here,

926
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 2: well at least I don't know. Look tell me if

927
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 2: you guys are intrigued by this. But physical places like

928
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:52,320
Speaker 2: Bagras Castle, a place in Turkey. It's literally a castle

929
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 2: up on a hill where you can look all the

930
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 2: way over into Syria and a strategic position like that,

931
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 2: you can see the Mediterranean, see you can see any

932
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:04,880
Speaker 2: armies that are coming your way right in this castle

933
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 2: that was controlled by a bunch of different groups over time,

934
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 2: but the Templars controlled it for a while. There are

935
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 2: all of these hidden tunnels and passageways and secret places

936
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:20,879
Speaker 2: within that, within that castle that they controlled that it's

937
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 2: been I guess it's an accusation. It's a mystery as

938
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 2: to some of the writings and carvings and stuff that

939
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 2: were found in there, some of the things that were

940
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,320
Speaker 2: considered secret. A lot of it you can't point to

941
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 2: and say, hey, there's definitely this whatever. You can't say

942
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 2: there's a baphomet in there in the you know, third

943
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 2: corridor from the bottom or whatever. But there is weird

944
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 2: stuff with some of the places they controlled that do

945
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 2: seem to hint at some different worship than what would

946
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:51,840
Speaker 2: be described.

947
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:52,720
Speaker 3: That's interesting.

948
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 4: But our secret rooms and passages sort of a staple

949
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,440
Speaker 4: of the Masons and of these types of orders.

950
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:03,280
Speaker 3: They're good for a siege, right, regardless of your belief.

951
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 3: It's nice to have a place to squirrel away or

952
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 3: a secondary exit that no one knows about, and that's

953
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 3: part of it. But also in some of these locations,

954
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:14,760
Speaker 3: to be clear, it's like they moved into a house

955
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 3: where someone else had lived. So the question is did

956
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 3: the worship stay as well? Right did they introduce this?

957
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 3: Were they just around it? This leads to what I

958
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 3: think too, and I think we're on the same page,

959
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 3: is the most fascinating possibility about the occult conspiracy stuff.

960
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 3: So first we have to say the confessions that were

961
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 3: derived under torture do not seem uniform. Some folks were saying,

962
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 3: I don't know what you're talking about. Some folks were like,

963
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, leave me my other foot. I'll agree

964
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 3: to whatever, and they're like, tell us about the idol.

965
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 3: And in each case they told a different story about

966
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 3: the idol, about its appearance. It was a cat ahead

967
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 3: with three faces, a regular, a regular old severed head.

968
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 3: And then it gets even weirder to your point, Matt,

969
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 3: because the templars probably did have a couple spare severed

970
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 3: heads laying around. That is true, it's just like, how

971
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 3: did they treat the severed heads.

972
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 4: I do also see potential motivation for turning away from

973
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 4: traditional Christian beliefs in that they were railroaded by the

974
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:28,440
Speaker 4: church in such a hardcore way.

975
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 2: But again, it's weird because all of that kind of

976
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 2: happened relatively at the same time, right, and they were

977
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 2: being persecuted for their previously held beliefs, like that's why

978
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 2: they got railroaded, at least allegedly according to the Pope

979
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:48,920
Speaker 2: and the King of France. So it is weird. It

980
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 2: is weird thing about that. But let's get back to

981
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 2: the heads bend, because this is I didn't know this,

982
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 2: but severed heads, like it was an okay thing to

983
00:58:57,800 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 2: keep them around.

984
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you just had to treat them reliquaries. Yeah,

985
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 3: like this this saint is very important to us, so

986
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 3: we're keeping the head as a object of adoration, right,

987
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:15,400
Speaker 3: and still very it's it's still in the milieu of Christianity.

988
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:21,560
Speaker 3: It is normalized. They had kind of yeah, or just

989
00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 3: boil it out until it's until no soft matter remains

990
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 3: and it's a skull, and then put some like silver

991
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 3: precious metals around it, you know, pop a couple of

992
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 3: jewels in the eyes. Just make it, you know, Jude,

993
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 3: it up cool, nothing better, nothing weird. They they probably

994
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 3: had the head of or the claims where they had

995
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 3: the head of a saint, Saint Euthemia. They also quite

996
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 3: possibly had the head of their other co founder, the

997
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 3: first Grand Master of the Templars. Huge depals. It sounds

998
00:59:56,480 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 3: like huge dependence to us. Uh, but they did. Okay,

999
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 3: So here's what's interesting to me. This is a little

1000
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:07,560
Speaker 3: bit like Heart of Darkness Colonel Curtsey stuff. But did

1001
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:12,560
Speaker 3: they we know, proximity breeds familiarity in all things. Is

1002
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:16,600
Speaker 3: it possible that some of these guys spent so long

1003
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 3: in these other parts of the world that they naturally,

1004
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 3: through cultural osmosis, began to pick up traditional beliefs. That's

1005
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 3: not a one on one or that's not a one

1006
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:31,720
Speaker 3: two switch, that's not a yes no thing, that's a

1007
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:37,520
Speaker 3: gradual increment, right, because you you know, you're increasingly not

1008
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:42,600
Speaker 3: practicing your vow of poverty nor of chastity. You're getting

1009
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 3: a little closer with the local population.

1010
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 2: It isn't there some kind of weird translation thing here?

1011
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 2: That was all I read. I've read that bappha Met

1012
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 2: could have actually stood for like worship of Mohammed or

1013
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 2: turned into you know, converted maybe to Islam, and they

1014
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 2: were they had changed sides basically in the big religious.

1015
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:10,640
Speaker 3: War, the calls coming from in the house.

1016
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 2: Did you find anything about that, because that's what it

1017
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:17,040
Speaker 2: seems like it could be. But again, I don't know,

1018
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:17,960
Speaker 2: And it's.

1019
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,320
Speaker 3: Tough because it's under torture, right, But I agree with you,

1020
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 3: it does feel like a possible thing. There's a book

1021
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 3: from eighteen sixty five by Thomas Wright called The Worship

1022
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 3: of Generitive Powers, and I think with a with a

1023
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 3: quote from this, a quotation from this, we'll see that

1024
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 3: comparison of bathha Met as sort of a code for

1025
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:47,240
Speaker 3: worshiping Islam or practicing I should say Islam. And it's

1026
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:50,680
Speaker 3: it's interesting. I think we can unpack it. Who's got

1027
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:53,240
Speaker 3: a who's got a good like old timey voice for

1028
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 3: this let's.

1029
01:01:54,200 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 5: Seem Desseren de mont Pissent, a nice of province, said

1030
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 5: that their superior showed him an idol made in the

1031
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:09,600
Speaker 5: form of before Met. Another named Raymond Rubai described it

1032
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 5: as a wooden head on which the figure of before

1033
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 5: Met was painted, and adds that he worshiped it by

1034
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 5: kissing its feet and exclaiming Yallah, which was he says

1035
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:27,880
Speaker 5: verbum sacra snorum, a word taken from the Saracens. A

1036
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 5: templar of Florence declared that in the secret chapters of

1037
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 5: the order, one brother said to the other, showing the idol,

1038
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 5: adore this head. This head is your God and your Mahammet.

1039
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:47,920
Speaker 4: Not bathoetlham, but spelled like a combo meal of like

1040
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:49,640
Speaker 4: Batha Met and Mohammad.

1041
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 3: Kind of it's very interesting.

1042
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:54,200
Speaker 2: And Yallah doesn't that so familiar?

1043
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:57,200
Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying. And it's also like we also

1044
01:02:57,360 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 3: know that Mahomet was an old French word that was

1045
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:06,920
Speaker 3: a stand in for the prophet Mohammed of Islam. So

1046
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:10,280
Speaker 3: now there's a political as well as a religious bent.

1047
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 3: The reasoning is, these monsters are supposed to support Christianity,

1048
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 3: but they've been perverting our trust. They're worshiping the enemy

1049
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 3: the whole time, and a lot of times, to be

1050
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 3: completely honest, literacy about other religions was not a thing.

1051
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:34,000
Speaker 3: So the average person in Western Europe is aware that

1052
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 3: Islam is a thing by this point, but they don't

1053
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:39,440
Speaker 3: know what it entails, right, They haven't read the Koran,

1054
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 3: they don't know about Ramadan or anything like that, so

1055
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 3: any they just know they consider these folks to be

1056
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 3: a largely hostile force. And with that preconception, kind of

1057
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:56,000
Speaker 3: anything bad you say about them sounds really believable, which

1058
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 3: again happens today all the time.

1059
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:03,760
Speaker 2: Right, But guys, uh, worship ahead as your god.

1060
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:09,560
Speaker 3: This is your god? Now going blue? I see zikes.

1061
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:16,600
Speaker 2: Oh, but you know it is it is. I don't know,

1062
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:18,200
Speaker 2: maybe it's it's fine.

1063
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 3: I'm sure it's all very above board. But uh but yeah,

1064
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:26,760
Speaker 3: so they're they're accused of, you know, like you said,

1065
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 3: switching sides, the idea that their long occupation of these

1066
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:34,080
Speaker 3: strategic sites in the Holy Land had led to them

1067
01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 3: corrupting their own beliefs. And this happens as The weird

1068
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:42,840
Speaker 3: thing is their beliefs had become corrupted. They were making

1069
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:47,400
Speaker 3: a lot of money. The vows of chastity were increasingly irrelevant, right,

1070
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:51,440
Speaker 3: They weren't living the letter of the templar rule. So

1071
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 3: it's not too far of a jump in the court

1072
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:57,440
Speaker 3: of public or papal opinion to say what else, what

1073
01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:01,120
Speaker 3: else did they violate? And so we still know there's

1074
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:04,880
Speaker 3: a lot of mystery around those practices. But I gotta say,

1075
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 3: confession under torture, Like we have all pointed out at

1076
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 3: some point in this episode, confession under torture, does it

1077
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 3: yield results? Yeah, if you're looking for the truth.

1078
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:22,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh man, you're right. Is it okay to switch

1079
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:27,439
Speaker 2: to this next part? Is I think my favorite maybe

1080
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:31,040
Speaker 2: set of theories, and it's something we've talked about before.

1081
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:35,160
Speaker 2: It goes back to gnosticism spelled with a G.

1082
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:39,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, shout out Yelda Bath and Sophia huh dude.

1083
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:43,320
Speaker 2: Maybe just let's lay down some groundwork here. There's some

1084
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 2: interesting concepts within schools of narcissism about God that are

1085
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:54,360
Speaker 2: don't really vibe with maybe the teachings of the Catholic

1086
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:56,760
Speaker 2: Church and what the templars are supposed to be following.

1087
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:00,480
Speaker 2: But it does make me think about my own eternal

1088
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:05,000
Speaker 2: spiritual stuff going on when reading Old Testament versus recently,

1089
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:08,440
Speaker 2: just looking at the God of the Old Testament as

1090
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:13,920
Speaker 2: this jealous, dangerous, scary thing that the Gnostics may be

1091
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 2: kind of agreed with that view a little.

1092
01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, the spoiler for gnosticism, folks. The idea is

1093
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:29,200
Speaker 3: that there are two different kind of planes of existence,

1094
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:32,640
Speaker 3: and the one that you are hearing this podcast in

1095
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:39,200
Speaker 3: is the crap one. It's the material world, and just

1096
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 3: like Madata, you're forced to live in this material world.

1097
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:46,680
Speaker 4: Oh there's also a line from a police song called

1098
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:50,320
Speaker 4: this is We are spirits in the material world, Our

1099
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:52,840
Speaker 4: spirits and the material I guess that's a I think

1100
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:54,280
Speaker 4: that must be a reference to that thing is a

1101
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:56,640
Speaker 4: pretty philosophically minded fellow.

1102
01:06:56,840 --> 01:07:00,480
Speaker 2: Well, that's a concept that goes throughout a bunch of Sorry, Ben,

1103
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:04,760
Speaker 2: it's it's good stuff.

1104
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:06,040
Speaker 3: So if so.

1105
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:10,360
Speaker 2: But this this concept, it goes throughout a bunch of

1106
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:13,600
Speaker 2: different religions, right, Yeah, all that we experience is one thing.

1107
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 2: But really your goal and the stuff you should be

1108
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:19,200
Speaker 2: focused on is in that other realm, the spiritual realm

1109
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:21,480
Speaker 2: that you get to access once you die. It's where

1110
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 2: you were when you're before you were born. Very common thing.

1111
01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:28,240
Speaker 2: But just with the Gnostics that it's it's that a

1112
01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 2: lot of the teachings about these creatures, there are gods

1113
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:37,160
Speaker 2: that are the all powerful ones are actually evil forces,

1114
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:40,040
Speaker 2: the ones that are trying to make you focus, I

1115
01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:41,760
Speaker 2: don't know, in some way on what you're doing here.

1116
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:46,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're The idea is you're not just stranded in

1117
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 3: the less cool reality, the material world. You're in a

1118
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:55,560
Speaker 3: hostage situation, and everybody is being held back in gnosticism,

1119
01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:59,920
Speaker 3: particularly in this kind of the general vibe of gnosta

1120
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:03,640
Speaker 3: is that the thing you think is god of this

1121
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:08,600
Speaker 3: material world is a prison Wharton more likely is a

1122
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:12,640
Speaker 3: false god. His name's Yaldebath, and he's an absolute pill.

1123
01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:18,960
Speaker 3: And you have to, through gnosticism, learn how to get

1124
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:22,320
Speaker 3: around this dude and lead a better life and then

1125
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:26,759
Speaker 3: ultimately graduate to you know, the better universe. The Catholics

1126
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 3: don't like this.

1127
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:31,400
Speaker 2: No, and the Templars got accused of having association with

1128
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:33,000
Speaker 2: or being secret Gnostics.

1129
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:38,880
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, that somewhere, delving too deep into the desert,

1130
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:43,240
Speaker 3: they had discovered unclean things, and those unclean things had

1131
01:08:43,320 --> 01:08:46,479
Speaker 3: turned them. And you know it's weird because later you

1132
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:51,920
Speaker 3: see you see this accusation play out in a much

1133
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:57,520
Speaker 3: more credible way with the Cathers. The Cather's heretical Gnostic

1134
01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:03,600
Speaker 3: movement also brutally supprese and persecuted by the Church. So

1135
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:08,800
Speaker 3: it's like it may sound, you know, in an increasingly

1136
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:12,799
Speaker 3: secular civilization, it may sound like these are silly reasons

1137
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:14,080
Speaker 3: to torture and kill people.

1138
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:19,280
Speaker 2: But yeah, guys, it makes me think about old school

1139
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:22,599
Speaker 2: invisible college stuff you know that we love in fiction,

1140
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:27,120
Speaker 2: and that stuff that actually goes back to theoretical secret writings,

1141
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 2: and it just makes you think about all of the

1142
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:33,639
Speaker 2: human beings that have existed throughout the rule of these

1143
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 2: military almost state level hegemonic powers that were also religions,

1144
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:44,400
Speaker 2: and the just human beings that are exploring the world

1145
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:47,679
Speaker 2: and thoughts and having individual thoughts that would be considered

1146
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:50,559
Speaker 2: heresy and then writing them somewhere and keeping them secret

1147
01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:53,080
Speaker 2: because they can't ever, no one can know that you

1148
01:09:53,160 --> 01:09:56,439
Speaker 2: even had these thoughts, right, right, And especially if you

1149
01:09:56,520 --> 01:09:58,920
Speaker 2: find other people that are kind of into your idea,

1150
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:01,920
Speaker 2: you got to that stuff secret or else your head

1151
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:05,120
Speaker 2: is literally going to roll. And it does just make

1152
01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:10,240
Speaker 2: me wonder about again, not necessarily even truths, right or

1153
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:14,760
Speaker 2: actual religious movements or spiritual again truths, but like just

1154
01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:18,439
Speaker 2: thoughts about the world and what it could be and

1155
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:22,360
Speaker 2: how it could function outside of those rigid structures that

1156
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:25,519
Speaker 2: these religions have. I'm fascinated by that stuff, and I

1157
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:27,680
Speaker 2: know you guys are too. I think we should go

1158
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:29,559
Speaker 2: even deeper into that realm at some point.

1159
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:32,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's do it. Because check out our episodes or

1160
01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:35,760
Speaker 3: various things we did on the Illuminati. A lot of

1161
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:40,639
Speaker 3: the actual Illuminati, a lot of their conversations were about

1162
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 3: science and spiritualism, like they were hiding because they had

1163
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:52,000
Speaker 3: to because power structures kill intelligent, innovative people. Yikes, I

1164
01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:55,040
Speaker 3: mean that's true. You know, like there's to your point, Matt.

1165
01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:58,439
Speaker 3: Somebody might write a treatise on gravity, right, or the

1166
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:02,000
Speaker 3: passage of the heavens, and they're not making any crazy

1167
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:07,000
Speaker 3: heretical claims, like directly confronting the current view of God.

1168
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:11,000
Speaker 3: They're just saying, here's my how stuff works article, and

1169
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:14,559
Speaker 3: I have to hide it because a church will come

1170
01:11:14,640 --> 01:11:17,519
Speaker 3: after me because they feel like what I am saying

1171
01:11:17,600 --> 01:11:23,320
Speaker 3: about physics is contradicting the spiritual view of the universe.

1172
01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:26,640
Speaker 4: Heck, we joke about you know, folks, coming after us,

1173
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:31,200
Speaker 4: or having you know, the interns listening into our calls

1174
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:33,479
Speaker 4: from the NSA or what have you. But at the

1175
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:35,560
Speaker 4: end of the day, there's nobody shutting down any of

1176
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:37,200
Speaker 4: the things that we're saying, and we pretty much are

1177
01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:43,160
Speaker 4: able to have open discourse about and not necessarily tribute,

1178
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:43,880
Speaker 4: you know.

1179
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:44,360
Speaker 2: From.

1180
01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:47,000
Speaker 3: For the most part.

1181
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:49,519
Speaker 2: Dude, Ben, do you think there's a secret vault of

1182
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:53,280
Speaker 2: how stuff works articles somewhere that you can access if

1183
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:54,400
Speaker 2: you had the right url.

1184
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:56,760
Speaker 3: We're talking about how stuff works after dark?

1185
01:11:57,400 --> 01:11:59,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's a different thing.

1186
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:01,840
Speaker 3: I thought that's a different thing. It's different thing, but

1187
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:06,160
Speaker 3: related things get hot heavy. Yeah, we were all very

1188
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:12,040
Speaker 3: into cinemax for a second. Sting, sting, sting, amass An Edger,

1189
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:17,880
Speaker 3: What do you think gooning is together in a group?

1190
01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:18,880
Speaker 3: Is it?

1191
01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:19,160
Speaker 1: Though?

1192
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:21,040
Speaker 3: That's what Robert Evans told me.

1193
01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:27,120
Speaker 4: And he group we were we were recording a show,

1194
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:28,920
Speaker 4: and he went out of his way to explain it

1195
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:29,200
Speaker 4: to me.

1196
01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:30,599
Speaker 2: But very nice guy.

1197
01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:34,320
Speaker 4: It necessarily has to be in a group. I think

1198
01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:38,519
Speaker 4: it's just another form of like tantric. It's it's supposed

1199
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:42,200
Speaker 4: to result in a hypnotics trance like state. I thought

1200
01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:44,400
Speaker 4: it was in a group too, But then I don't know,

1201
01:12:44,479 --> 01:12:47,360
Speaker 4: it's one of these things that I guess evolves gooning

1202
01:12:47,479 --> 01:12:49,160
Speaker 4: is a form of legal kidnapping.

1203
01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:54,439
Speaker 3: That's differ. And also we're looking at weird websites, so

1204
01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:58,280
Speaker 3: again goodbye to our search history. But yeah, folks, you'll

1205
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:02,400
Speaker 3: have to ask Robert and maybe maybe you know, maybe

1206
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:05,840
Speaker 3: the meaning is your own to give. I think that's right. Hey,

1207
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:09,599
Speaker 3: it's a living language, you know, yeah, right in urch

1208
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:12,840
Speaker 3: ate it. But this maybe gets us too, because we're

1209
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:16,000
Speaker 3: closer to the modern day. Before you get to that question,

1210
01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:18,120
Speaker 3: I kind of have to ask, Like, I agree, there's

1211
01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:22,479
Speaker 3: much more to get into. But if like I think

1212
01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:27,240
Speaker 3: our mutually favorite conspiracy theories are true, if the Templars

1213
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:32,439
Speaker 3: really did discover magic, really did traffic with infernal powers,

1214
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:36,400
Speaker 3: and if they or if they found some genuine supernatural

1215
01:13:36,600 --> 01:13:40,400
Speaker 3: artifact the Holy Grail, head of a deity, arc of

1216
01:13:40,479 --> 01:13:44,080
Speaker 3: the Covenant, et cetera, if that magic worked, then why

1217
01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:47,160
Speaker 3: didn't it save them? You know what I mean? Like,

1218
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:51,040
Speaker 3: if you have found the spiritual equivalent of a nuclear bomb,

1219
01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:55,360
Speaker 3: why didn't it detonate? That makes me think it's a

1220
01:13:55,400 --> 01:13:58,639
Speaker 3: little more of a heavy p king Philip hit piece

1221
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:02,479
Speaker 3: but maybe we end today with the you know, the

1222
01:14:03,479 --> 01:14:07,719
Speaker 3: idea that we set up earlier, did the Templars go away?

1223
01:14:08,240 --> 01:14:12,320
Speaker 3: You know, like is there like the Freemasons are often

1224
01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:14,720
Speaker 3: very closely associated with the Templars.

1225
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:19,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's one person we can ask you guys, who's that?

1226
01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:26,200
Speaker 2: He goes by Friar John T. Dunlop Dunlap's. He's the

1227
01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:29,080
Speaker 2: grand Master of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta. I

1228
01:14:29,120 --> 01:14:32,160
Speaker 2: think we can ask him. He's been the Sovereign grand

1229
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:35,960
Speaker 2: Master since twenty twenty three May twenty twenty three.

1230
01:14:36,360 --> 01:14:38,920
Speaker 3: Oh okay, he still got that new car smell. Oh yeah,

1231
01:14:39,080 --> 01:14:42,000
Speaker 3: oh yeah, but you know, you know, he knows he

1232
01:14:42,120 --> 01:14:46,640
Speaker 3: knows something definitely, you know what that is. We'll have

1233
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:48,840
Speaker 3: to figure out how to ask him the right way,

1234
01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:52,439
Speaker 3: you know, so much as in how we phrase the question.

1235
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:54,920
Speaker 3: But yeah, he would probably know. I wonder if you

1236
01:14:54,960 --> 01:14:59,360
Speaker 3: would agree with historian Frank Sinello. In two thousand and three,

1237
01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:03,680
Speaker 3: Sinello writes a book called The Knights Templars, God's willriors

1238
01:15:04,360 --> 01:15:09,960
Speaker 3: the Devil's Bankers, and he says he says that it

1239
01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:15,400
Speaker 3: goes back to marketing and promo and propaganda because he's

1240
01:15:15,479 --> 01:15:18,040
Speaker 3: like look, if you travel back in time, there's a

1241
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:22,720
Speaker 3: guy named Andrew Ramsey. He is a high level French Freemason,

1242
01:15:23,160 --> 01:15:28,960
Speaker 3: and he originally says, hey, Freemasons are descended from the Crusades.

1243
01:15:29,080 --> 01:15:32,640
Speaker 3: They're descended from the Order of the Knights, Hospitaller. And

1244
01:15:32,840 --> 01:15:38,479
Speaker 3: then he realizes, oh, that order is still around. They

1245
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:41,759
Speaker 3: can come back and tell me or tell the public

1246
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:44,840
Speaker 3: that I'm making this up. So he quickly changes his

1247
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:50,240
Speaker 3: story and he says, did I say Hospitaller immense the templars,

1248
01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:52,320
Speaker 3: you know, because.

1249
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:54,360
Speaker 2: Nobody can check nobody can check that out.

1250
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:58,360
Speaker 3: And I think that's informing a lot of these, you know,

1251
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:02,439
Speaker 3: bit more fan full claims. But again because of the mystery,

1252
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:06,560
Speaker 3: because they were not all individually murdered, we don't know

1253
01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:09,760
Speaker 3: what happened. And I think that's why, like the Da

1254
01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:12,720
Speaker 3: Vinci Code and all these other assassins Creed, I think

1255
01:16:12,760 --> 01:16:16,200
Speaker 3: that's why templars are a regular recurring thing in fiction.

1256
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:21,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the freemason lore. Stuff that goes back to

1257
01:16:22,479 --> 01:16:25,920
Speaker 2: descending deep into the earth to pull out stone and

1258
01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:31,200
Speaker 2: discovering things within the earth that still stirs something within

1259
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:33,719
Speaker 2: me gets me all tingly and excited.

1260
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:38,400
Speaker 3: Her medic influences two Bulcane and all that jazz.

1261
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:42,400
Speaker 2: Oh man, it just gets I really love it. And

1262
01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:46,519
Speaker 2: I'd liked the idea that somehow the Templars were connected

1263
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:48,400
Speaker 2: to that, but this, it's a really good point.

1264
01:16:49,640 --> 01:16:52,240
Speaker 3: I do think it's cool too, you know, shout out

1265
01:16:52,280 --> 01:16:54,720
Speaker 3: to Fox Mulder, right, the truth is out there. We

1266
01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:57,880
Speaker 3: want to believe and if you can inform us, if

1267
01:16:57,960 --> 01:17:01,240
Speaker 3: you can, you know, give us this scoop, just like

1268
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:03,920
Speaker 3: you would with a casual stranger who ask you a

1269
01:17:04,080 --> 01:17:06,600
Speaker 3: question that we would love to hear your take. We

1270
01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:10,480
Speaker 3: also want to point out that there is an official

1271
01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:15,320
Speaker 3: kind of descendant of the Templars that everybody agrees is

1272
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:18,719
Speaker 3: descended from them. It's the Order of Knights in Portugal,

1273
01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:21,360
Speaker 3: the Order of the Knights of Jesus Christ, created in

1274
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:26,600
Speaker 3: thirteen nineteen because the Templars played a big role in

1275
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:29,960
Speaker 3: creating the Kingdom of Portugal, and the Pope approved this.

1276
01:17:30,680 --> 01:17:32,200
Speaker 3: The Pope was like, yeah, okay.

1277
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:34,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that was in thirteen nineteen, which is not

1278
01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:37,439
Speaker 2: long after the Templars got.

1279
01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:42,600
Speaker 4: Right and Michael hag Or Hague basically referred to this

1280
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:44,720
Speaker 4: as the Templar and under another.

1281
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:49,000
Speaker 3: Name, but loyal to the King of Portugal. That's right,

1282
01:17:49,160 --> 01:17:51,040
Speaker 3: all right, little twist, but.

1283
01:17:51,160 --> 01:17:53,439
Speaker 2: Again there's just words. Again it goes back to the

1284
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:56,080
Speaker 2: Order of Malta for me, just the way lands we

1285
01:17:56,760 --> 01:18:00,519
Speaker 2: have been gifted to some of these orders, and they

1286
01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:05,160
Speaker 2: all feel like political moves because so many of this group,

1287
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:09,160
Speaker 2: including the Templars before. I don't know anything about the

1288
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:11,040
Speaker 2: Order of the Knights of Jesus Christ, but the Order

1289
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:13,960
Speaker 2: of Malta, this is these are people who have to

1290
01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:17,320
Speaker 2: prove their lineage back to the nobility in order to

1291
01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:21,600
Speaker 2: even join often, which just feels like this weird interconnected

1292
01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:23,320
Speaker 2: power thing it.

1293
01:18:23,439 --> 01:18:26,560
Speaker 3: Is, I mean very much so uh the you know,

1294
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:29,560
Speaker 3: it would be while it may not be correct to

1295
01:18:29,720 --> 01:18:36,599
Speaker 3: assume that conspiracy theories about secret cabals are all automatically true,

1296
01:18:37,080 --> 01:18:41,320
Speaker 3: it would likewise be naive to assume that those very

1297
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:44,640
Speaker 3: connected people don't speak with each other, you know what

1298
01:18:44,720 --> 01:18:47,400
Speaker 3: I mean, Like, you recognize what your neighbors look like,

1299
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:50,120
Speaker 3: and in the world of power, those folks are neighbors.

1300
01:18:51,080 --> 01:18:51,800
Speaker 3: They see each other.

1301
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:56,200
Speaker 2: Dude, dude. It just it's taken me back to the

1302
01:18:56,240 --> 01:18:58,519
Speaker 2: project for a New American century and feeling like there's

1303
01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:00,760
Speaker 2: some kind of weird crusade things going on in the

1304
01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:03,200
Speaker 2: Middle East again in the two thousands.

1305
01:19:03,840 --> 01:19:06,280
Speaker 3: Oh like, when was it Bush who used the phrase

1306
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:08,599
Speaker 3: crusade and then realized he had to walk that one

1307
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:09,280
Speaker 3: back real quick?

1308
01:19:09,360 --> 01:19:13,519
Speaker 2: Oh yeah to seven years later. Just let's do it again.

1309
01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:17,000
Speaker 4: I have no doubt that there are certain members of

1310
01:19:17,080 --> 01:19:20,760
Speaker 4: certain extreme religious communities that would like nothing better.

1311
01:19:21,400 --> 01:19:25,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, terrorists too, like anders Brevic I think his name was.

1312
01:19:26,160 --> 01:19:29,880
Speaker 3: He saw himself as a new Templar, as a new crusader.

1313
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:32,360
Speaker 3: But again, a lot of these a lot of folks

1314
01:19:32,400 --> 01:19:36,320
Speaker 3: who are who have some sort of historical association or

1315
01:19:36,400 --> 01:19:39,040
Speaker 3: maybe ancestry, A lot of these folks who are in

1316
01:19:39,240 --> 01:19:43,320
Speaker 3: organizations that claim to have descended from the templars. They're

1317
01:19:43,360 --> 01:19:46,559
Speaker 3: not bad, they're like a good story like almost anybody else.

1318
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:50,200
Speaker 3: But there is a conspiracy of play, and it's a

1319
01:19:50,320 --> 01:19:53,320
Speaker 3: conspiracy about money. That's why they got wiped out.

1320
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:56,240
Speaker 2: Dude, that's in power.

1321
01:19:57,040 --> 01:19:59,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, first to get the money, then you get the power,

1322
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:05,519
Speaker 3: then King Philip comes for you. I think that's how

1323
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:08,960
Speaker 3: the Little Kins song goes, right, Yeah, that's it. They

1324
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:13,639
Speaker 3: got ill popd So with that, I think we've set

1325
01:20:13,720 --> 01:20:16,240
Speaker 3: up some episodes we want to explore in the future.

1326
01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:19,720
Speaker 3: We also want to hear from you guys. How cool

1327
01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:22,200
Speaker 3: would it be if a templar wrote to us, like

1328
01:20:22,280 --> 01:20:27,920
Speaker 3: an actual templar, oh from their secret underground bump bunker temple,

1329
01:20:28,439 --> 01:20:35,000
Speaker 3: send a picture of the head. Please do the deityfication.

1330
01:20:35,360 --> 01:20:37,880
Speaker 2: We really do want to hear from anybody out there

1331
01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:41,080
Speaker 2: who is a member of an organization that within that

1332
01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:47,120
Speaker 2: organization it finds ties to templars or to orders. Right, Yeah,

1333
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:49,400
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter if you believe it or whatever. Just

1334
01:20:49,479 --> 01:20:51,960
Speaker 2: does the order find its roots there somehow?

1335
01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:52,960
Speaker 3: Is it part of their lore?

1336
01:20:53,240 --> 01:20:56,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, we would love to hear that.

1337
01:20:56,760 --> 01:20:59,360
Speaker 3: Also, want to go ahead and thank the people who

1338
01:20:59,400 --> 01:21:02,760
Speaker 3: took us up on sending your pet pictures. Get to

1339
01:21:02,840 --> 01:21:05,479
Speaker 3: go through some of those later today. And you know,

1340
01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:09,080
Speaker 3: if you've got a topic in your head, something just burning,

1341
01:21:09,160 --> 01:21:11,679
Speaker 3: that you want your fellow conspiracy realists to learn about,

1342
01:21:12,200 --> 01:21:14,639
Speaker 3: then let us know that too, or just send us puns.

1343
01:21:14,920 --> 01:21:17,840
Speaker 3: We're open. You know, we're easier to talk to than

1344
01:21:18,240 --> 01:21:21,080
Speaker 3: the Templars of old. We try to be easy to

1345
01:21:21,160 --> 01:21:22,439
Speaker 3: find on lot.

1346
01:21:22,560 --> 01:21:23,320
Speaker 2: Boy do we ever.

1347
01:21:23,400 --> 01:21:25,960
Speaker 4: You can find us in the handle conspiracy stuff, where

1348
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:29,960
Speaker 4: we exist on Facebook, YouTube where we have video content

1349
01:21:30,080 --> 01:21:34,640
Speaker 4: rolling at you every single week, as well as x fka, Twitter, on.

1350
01:21:34,880 --> 01:21:37,120
Speaker 3: Instagram and TikTok. We're Conspiracy Stuff Show.

1351
01:21:37,840 --> 01:21:39,840
Speaker 2: We also have a phone number. You can leave us

1352
01:21:39,880 --> 01:21:44,200
Speaker 2: a voicemail call one eight three three std WYTK. When

1353
01:21:44,240 --> 01:21:46,760
Speaker 2: you call in, give yourself a cool nickname. Let us

1354
01:21:46,800 --> 01:21:48,280
Speaker 2: know if we can use your name in message on

1355
01:21:48,360 --> 01:21:51,519
Speaker 2: the air and say whatever you like. You got three minutes.

1356
01:21:51,800 --> 01:21:53,040
Speaker 2: If you don't want to do that, or you have

1357
01:21:53,080 --> 01:21:54,960
Speaker 2: too much to say, why not instead send us a

1358
01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:56,120
Speaker 2: good old fashioned email.

1359
01:21:56,280 --> 01:21:59,599
Speaker 3: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1360
01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:20,599
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't want you to know is a production

1361
01:22:20,760 --> 01:22:25,240
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1362
01:22:25,360 --> 01:22:28,200
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.