WEBVTT - More From Day Three at Milken Global Conference

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 1>Quick Takes Tim Stinovic from Bloomberg Radio. But earlier this year,

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<v Speaker 1>Engine Number One took three board seats and exon to

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<v Speaker 1>speed up the company's transition. It's the small activist fund

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<v Speaker 1>that is now got the world watch, especially after taking

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<v Speaker 1>on x In. Joining us now is Jennifer Grantio, chief

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<v Speaker 1>executive officer of Engine Number One. She's with us on

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<v Speaker 1>site at the Milk and Institute Global Conference. Give us

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<v Speaker 1>your interpretation or your reaction to the conference this year,

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<v Speaker 1>because we were talking during the break and use the

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<v Speaker 1>phrase people are ready. What are they ready for? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean we've set out with Engine number one to

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<v Speaker 1>do things in a different way. And so instead of

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<v Speaker 1>what we all think of as slightly older school e

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<v Speaker 1>S and g people aren't sure if it works, people

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<v Speaker 1>aren't sure to think it returns. We built Engine number

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<v Speaker 1>one to take the data, the environmental or the climate

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<v Speaker 1>or the governments data and use it to drive returns.

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<v Speaker 1>And so, as I've watched and talked with lots of

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<v Speaker 1>people over the last couple of days, large pools of

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<v Speaker 1>assets as well as younger people, people are ready, But

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<v Speaker 1>they're ready because the performance is there, or they're just

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<v Speaker 1>ready because it's the right thing to do. What is

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<v Speaker 1>it they're they're ready, they're ready to have impact in

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<v Speaker 1>their investments, but they're not willing to do it with

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<v Speaker 1>giving up returns. So the way they think about it is,

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<v Speaker 1>we care, we care about people and wages and workers,

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<v Speaker 1>we care about climate, but we need investors to do

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<v Speaker 1>it for us in a way where we don't give

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<v Speaker 1>up returns. So, Jennifer, is it harder though for a

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<v Speaker 1>company that is delivering the returns to kind of get

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<v Speaker 1>them to make the changes? And investors are maybe not

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<v Speaker 1>going to be so supportive because they're like, listen, I

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<v Speaker 1>like these returns. So give me an idea. Yeah, we

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<v Speaker 1>think it's all. We think it's all about using the

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<v Speaker 1>data on climate or environment people using it to drive

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<v Speaker 1>returns over time. So to take an example, let's take

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<v Speaker 1>General Motors. UM. So Mary bar has got up a

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<v Speaker 1>great business, she's a great CEO, she's got a strong board, um,

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<v Speaker 1>but they can actually make more money if they get

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<v Speaker 1>to an e V transition faster, longer term, longer term.

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<v Speaker 1>But if you think about it from a scale perspective,

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<v Speaker 1>so what's the you know, the what's the multiple of

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<v Speaker 1>GM today compared to Tesla. Let's take that example. If

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<v Speaker 1>you can get to an e V transition sooner and

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<v Speaker 1>you're doing nine million electric cars a year, that's a

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<v Speaker 1>huge increase in multiple for GM, and we get to

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<v Speaker 1>the climate transition sooner. So yes, it takes more than

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<v Speaker 1>a quarter, but it's the way to do it at scale. Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>talk to us about your investing framework and how you

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<v Speaker 1>think about potential targets. Are our audience absolutely familiar with

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<v Speaker 1>what engine number one has done and did earlier this

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<v Speaker 1>year at Exxonmobile and also of course at General Motors too,

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<v Speaker 1>But how do you think about your next potential targets? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>we think about it as being active owners in all

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<v Speaker 1>these companies, as opposed to target or old school activism.

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<v Speaker 1>And so what does that mean. That means we're running

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<v Speaker 1>with all the public companies, every single one. We run

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<v Speaker 1>through their wages, their workers, their social impact, and their

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<v Speaker 1>climate and environmental impact. We do it in dollar sense,

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<v Speaker 1>and then we forecast how does that change their value

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<v Speaker 1>and over time? And so we will work with both

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<v Speaker 1>companies that are laggards where we think they're not managing

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<v Speaker 1>the business as well as they could, and we'll do

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<v Speaker 1>that constructively. We won't try to do it um you

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<v Speaker 1>know the way we did with that Exxon. Better to

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<v Speaker 1>do it working constructively with companies, and so we're working

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<v Speaker 1>with a number of companies now. But behind the scenes,

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<v Speaker 1>we don't talk about that as much. Tim was doing.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, we're doing some research. Tim showed a story

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<v Speaker 1>with me and we've been following this down. Jones, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>had reported I guess it was. Was it just today, Tim? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that X and XN is debating abandoning some of its

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<v Speaker 1>biggest oil and gas projects. Do you feel like when Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I think the first win is get the right people

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<v Speaker 1>on the board. So that was a big victory in

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<v Speaker 1>getting three people with great energy transition experience, UM. And

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<v Speaker 1>the second when we're looking for is what's the long

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<v Speaker 1>term capital all occasion strategy. And if x and we're

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<v Speaker 1>not in the boardroom their independent directors, but if Exxon

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<v Speaker 1>with the new people on the board, comes to a

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<v Speaker 1>decision to rethink long term petroleum development, we think that's

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<v Speaker 1>very smart. Aren't for business? Any environment? And the environment? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>what does that Excel mobile look like to you? I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>help us understand that, because I think people think of

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<v Speaker 1>Exon Mobile is like the opposite of a It's think

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<v Speaker 1>about the business that it's in, right, it drills for

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<v Speaker 1>fossil fuels. Uh, it's an energy company. And so if

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<v Speaker 1>you think about the expertise that Exon has, they have,

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<v Speaker 1>you know they have huge I p in great technologies

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<v Speaker 1>and with the batteries. Traditionally they were a founder pioneer

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<v Speaker 1>from research perspective, and then they have an ability to

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<v Speaker 1>execute things at huge scale. If you want to do energy,

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<v Speaker 1>even a new kind of energy at scale, think about

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<v Speaker 1>the engineering capability of a Chevron or an Exxon to

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<v Speaker 1>do that. So they're an energy company. They don't only

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<v Speaker 1>have to be an oil company ten and twenty years

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<v Speaker 1>in the future. So in terms of industries, I know

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<v Speaker 1>you can't probably reveal I don't want to say the

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<v Speaker 1>word targets. I know that's what we keep thinking. But

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, what are the industries that you think you're

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<v Speaker 1>going to be looking at or are currently looking at

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<v Speaker 1>pretty aggressively when it comes to doing the research that

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<v Speaker 1>you know are transitioning need to be trans motioning for

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<v Speaker 1>the better of all mankind. Yeah, I think I think

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<v Speaker 1>the heavy fossil fuel industries are definitely, I mean definitely,

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<v Speaker 1>that's an obvious one, which is why you see us

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<v Speaker 1>talking about energy and talking about transportation. That's a place

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<v Speaker 1>where you transform and companies can be much more profitable

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<v Speaker 1>and you get to climate better climate impacts sooner. They're

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<v Speaker 1>also financial services Squares an example where Squares business is

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<v Speaker 1>cash app in particular serving underserved communities. It's driving financial

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<v Speaker 1>inclusion that has huge positive benefit. And a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>healthcare companies their whole business is to do good and

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<v Speaker 1>so helping them get that story out and explain to

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<v Speaker 1>investors that that's a good place to be driving this

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<v Speaker 1>transition around better social outcomes. The big banks might be

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<v Speaker 1>a dorko. We are. We quickly put this. We put

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<v Speaker 1>this valuation framework against every different company in every different industry.

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<v Speaker 1>And the nice thing about the vote et F, So

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<v Speaker 1>we've got a private fund, We've got a vote e

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<v Speaker 1>t F. It holds all big companies, so we can

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<v Speaker 1>work through a lot of these issues over time. We'll

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<v Speaker 1>have to find a better river target. Yeah, would you

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<v Speaker 1>come back, would love to love your premise and what

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<v Speaker 1>you're doing. Jennifer Gracio, she's chief executive officer of Engine

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<v Speaker 1>number one right here at Milken This is Bloomberg. So

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<v Speaker 1>I do feel like this topic is definitely the kind

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<v Speaker 1>of conversations that are happening here at Milkin, which is

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<v Speaker 1>where Tim and I have been for the last few days. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>And the topic is about the role of universities in

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<v Speaker 1>our democracy. Our next guest says in a new book,

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<v Speaker 1>universities are a bulwark institution when it comes to democracy.

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<v Speaker 1>Ronald J. Daniels is president of Johns Hopkins University. He

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<v Speaker 1>joins us on the phone from Baltimore. He's the author

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<v Speaker 1>of his book What Universities, Oh Democracy? The Johns Hopkins

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg School of Public Health. It is supported by Michael R. Bloomberg,

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<v Speaker 1>founder of Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Ron it's really

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<v Speaker 1>great to have you on the show. How are you.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm great, and thanks for the opportunity to talk to

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<v Speaker 1>you about the book. Well, let's talk about the book.

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<v Speaker 1>What was the moment that prompted you to to write

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<v Speaker 1>this time? When did you realize that you needed to

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<v Speaker 1>write this? So you know, it was an interesting moment

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<v Speaker 1>several years ago. Um. And it was a time when

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<v Speaker 1>there were a few instants across American campuses where UH

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<v Speaker 1>there were deep platforming of speakers and disinventations and so

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<v Speaker 1>for what that were happening across the country. And it

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<v Speaker 1>was at that moment that we, like several other universities,

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<v Speaker 1>really felt it was important to UH very intentionally remind

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<v Speaker 1>our students, particularly in the context of the first moments,

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<v Speaker 1>that when they step onto the campus, of what it

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<v Speaker 1>is that sets the university apart from other institutions in society,

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<v Speaker 1>and in particular our commitment to open debate, to contestations,

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<v Speaker 1>UH to UH to UM, deep probing of and critique

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<v Speaker 1>of one's positions, to see that as a lifebut of

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<v Speaker 1>the institution. And it was in that context that we

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<v Speaker 1>had a session early on in the year for incoming

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<v Speaker 1>students and we talked UM a lot about the role

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<v Speaker 1>of free speech and academic freedom and so forth. Then

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I stood at the back of the lecture

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<v Speaker 1>hall and at the end of the lecture I talked

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<v Speaker 1>to a few students and I said, so, what did

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<v Speaker 1>you think of the event? What do you take from it?

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<v Speaker 1>And remarkably so all the students said, we never knew,

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<v Speaker 1>we never knew the case for free speech. No one

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<v Speaker 1>had ever exposed us to this argument before. I said,

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<v Speaker 1>my god, you've come through great schools from across the country,

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<v Speaker 1>and you're telling me that you never were exposed to

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<v Speaker 1>these central ideas which are at the core of American democracy.

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<v Speaker 1>And so, you know, that was a moment when I

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<v Speaker 1>started to think more and more about the ways in

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<v Speaker 1>which the university uh intersects with democracy, and to ask

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<v Speaker 1>the question, as much as we do for democracy, and

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<v Speaker 1>as much as I think we're a bulwark institution for democracy,

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<v Speaker 1>as you mentioned earlier, is there more we can do?

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<v Speaker 1>And that the book well, and you you write about

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<v Speaker 1>early on in the intro. You know that democracy and

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<v Speaker 1>liberalism liberalism do not exist in easy alignment with one another,

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<v Speaker 1>and it is that collision of opposites that is a

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<v Speaker 1>vital part of liberal democracy. Genius genius, however, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>it fascinates me, and I think about when I went

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<v Speaker 1>to college, the whole idea was diversity of thought and

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<v Speaker 1>challenging one another but having an intelligent and level headed discussion. Journalism.

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<v Speaker 1>I like journalism because there are you know, different perspectives

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<v Speaker 1>and hopefully we put out those different perspectives for people

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<v Speaker 1>to make informed decisions. But something happened in academia right

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<v Speaker 1>where there was so much pushback against controversial thought because

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<v Speaker 1>if you didn't believe in it, or you didn't agree

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<v Speaker 1>with it, you didn't want to hear about it. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's that's a dangerous that's you know, freedom of speech.

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<v Speaker 1>That's when we start to really kind of filter out

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<v Speaker 1>what's being said. So you know, it's um, these these incidents,

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<v Speaker 1>when they happen in universities, they always get a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of attention, and to my mind, particularly lost for years

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<v Speaker 1>where university presidents of faculty members have really been much

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<v Speaker 1>more active and educating students about the centrality of free

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<v Speaker 1>speech and academic freedom, and particularly saying, you know, however,

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<v Speaker 1>one wants to think about other institutions in American society,

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<v Speaker 1>the university, with its commitment to fact and to reason

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<v Speaker 1>and too spirited debate, it must be a place where

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<v Speaker 1>we bend over backwards to provide space for people to

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<v Speaker 1>express their views and to have them tested and challenged.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I think that had happened. Um, but um,

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<v Speaker 1>what I think has not happened as much as it should.

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<v Speaker 1>And again it's something I talked about in the book

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<v Speaker 1>is are educating the students that are here with us,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, increasingly representative of the great diversity of

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<v Speaker 1>American society, how they can have good conversations, how they

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<v Speaker 1>can actually meaningful engage, meaningful engage one another across difference

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<v Speaker 1>and find ways to UM continue conversations even when you

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<v Speaker 1>have very deeply dividing perspectives in the world. And to

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<v Speaker 1>my mind, UM the university essentially a rare opportunity for that.

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<v Speaker 1>We are talking with Johns. Hopkins University President Ron Daniel

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<v Speaker 1>still with us. His new book out is what Universities?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh Democracy? What's something you guys have done at Hopkins

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<v Speaker 1>to ensure that there's diversity of thought, that democracy is

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<v Speaker 1>really being played out UM fairly and and and in

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<v Speaker 1>a good way and the way it should be UM.

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<v Speaker 1>As I described the a few moments ago, one was

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<v Speaker 1>the UM the orientation programming that we were doing around

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<v Speaker 1>our academic freedom policy and and right from the moment

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<v Speaker 1>that kids get on campus giving them exposure to that.

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<v Speaker 1>We have UM this past year UM step that up

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<v Speaker 1>much more significantly and in fact had a day in

0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:02.479
<v Speaker 1>orientation dedicated to educating students on the tenants of democracy

0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:06.640
<v Speaker 1>and giving them exposure to a host of different challenges

0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:10.160
<v Speaker 1>confronting America. That involved more than twenty five faculty from

0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.120
<v Speaker 1>across the university. So what we're trying to do is

0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:16.280
<v Speaker 1>right from the get go, is remind students that there's

0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:19.720
<v Speaker 1>something really precious at stake here and that they have

0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:23.520
<v Speaker 1>got to think about their role as citizens and how

0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:27.040
<v Speaker 1>they are going to advocate for democracy, understand its challenges,

0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:29.160
<v Speaker 1>and work to improve it. And that's something that we

0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:31.679
<v Speaker 1>really really want to see as foundational to the experience

0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:35.600
<v Speaker 1>at Hopkins. How have you seen that change? And justin

0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:37.720
<v Speaker 1>we have about thirty seconds left changed during your tenure

0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:43.200
<v Speaker 1>at Hopkins. So you know, I think, um, we've just become,

0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:47.160
<v Speaker 1>like so many other universities, much more attentive to the

0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:52.439
<v Speaker 1>level and intensity of polarization and discord and distrust around us.

0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:57.120
<v Speaker 1>And so we're working to become much more effective and

0:12:57.200 --> 0:12:59.959
<v Speaker 1>trying to push back against these trends and again get

0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:03.079
<v Speaker 1>the incredible diversity of our student bodies is used that

0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.960
<v Speaker 1>as an opportunity to try and build bridges and habits

0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.640
<v Speaker 1>that they'll take on graduation out in through the country.

0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:11.840
<v Speaker 1>I want to get right back to Ronald J. Daniels,

0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:13.800
<v Speaker 1>the guests we have joining us now, President of Johns

0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:16.520
<v Speaker 1>Hopkins University. He joins us on the phone from Baltimore.

0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:20.320
<v Speaker 1>His book is called What Universities Oh Democracy? The Johns

0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:23.360
<v Speaker 1>Hopkins Bloomberg School Public Health. It is supported by Michael R. Bloomberg,

0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:28.400
<v Speaker 1>founder of Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Ron I asked

0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:30.839
<v Speaker 1>you why, what prompted you to write this book? Partly

0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:33.960
<v Speaker 1>because when I started reading it and thinking about it,

0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.600
<v Speaker 1>I thought about January six and what happened in the

0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:40.280
<v Speaker 1>United States on January six, And I'm wondering how you

0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:42.360
<v Speaker 1>see the role of the university in that context when

0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:44.240
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people would say, wait a second, We're

0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:46.120
<v Speaker 1>at a point in the history of the United States

0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:51.960
<v Speaker 1>where too many people democracy feels really fragile. So, you know,

0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:54.960
<v Speaker 1>I think January six is an extreme manifestation of that.

0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:58.000
<v Speaker 1>But well before January six, of course, all of the

0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:03.439
<v Speaker 1>trends indicated that democracy was and is under significant threats.

0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:06.000
<v Speaker 1>So if we look at the level of polarization of

0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:09.520
<v Speaker 1>distrust and institutions, as I mentioned earlier, you know, just

0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:13.640
<v Speaker 1>even people's views have shifted over the last several decades

0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.320
<v Speaker 1>in terms of their willingness to have a serious conversation

0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:20.200
<v Speaker 1>with someone of the opposite political party. In fact, even

0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:27.920
<v Speaker 1>it's been documented that Republicans and Democrats are less excited

0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:30.640
<v Speaker 1>about and even you know, concerned that their children might

0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:33.680
<v Speaker 1>marry someone of who comes from a family of the

0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:37.440
<v Speaker 1>opposite political party. So it's in this context of deep

0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:44.320
<v Speaker 1>discord and distrust that given that more than uh of

0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:48.040
<v Speaker 1>students graduating from high school in the United States will

0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:51.800
<v Speaker 1>go on to uh college, it seems that we have

0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:56.600
<v Speaker 1>got an opportunity in terms of the four years or

0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:59.280
<v Speaker 1>two years even for two year colleges that students are

0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:01.840
<v Speaker 1>with us to try and enter being here and try

0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:05.880
<v Speaker 1>and first of all sensitize them to what's at stake

0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:09.080
<v Speaker 1>in democracy. But more than that, helped them to find

0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:13.400
<v Speaker 1>ways to abridge the difference and to just turn down

0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:18.360
<v Speaker 1>the temperature and restore some idea of what political philosophers

0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:20.880
<v Speaker 1>called civic friendship. We don't necessarily have to agree with

0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.360
<v Speaker 1>each other, but we at least have to understand that

0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:29.240
<v Speaker 1>we're all tied into this enterprise of American democracy together. Ron,

0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:32.040
<v Speaker 1>have you had any conversations with the politicians down in

0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:36.040
<v Speaker 1>Washington lazy, like, how is it that? And and it's

0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:37.920
<v Speaker 1>I think it's safe to say whether it's on the

0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:41.320
<v Speaker 1>left or on the right. There are prominent players in

0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:46.200
<v Speaker 1>our political sector right now and certainly in government, UM

0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:48.840
<v Speaker 1>that have gone to the best of the best in

0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:53.040
<v Speaker 1>terms of universities Princeton, Harvard, Yale, Stanford, where you would

0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:56.320
<v Speaker 1>expect that there is this wonderful diversity of thought and

0:15:56.360 --> 0:16:00.160
<v Speaker 1>there would be civic friendship you know, coming out out

0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:04.880
<v Speaker 1>of it. And yet we have these extreme views, um

0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:09.280
<v Speaker 1>that are really uncomfortable in making democracy very difficult. How

0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:12.920
<v Speaker 1>do you square that? And what's the responsibility is it

0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:16.760
<v Speaker 1>the universe? Would you point? Yeah, No, I think it's

0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.400
<v Speaker 1>a great question. And I think this is when we

0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:22.720
<v Speaker 1>see these habits and we see the incentives that politicians

0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:26.000
<v Speaker 1>are facing. You know, again, there's you know, lots of

0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:29.080
<v Speaker 1>reasons for that in terms of the role of social

0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:31.640
<v Speaker 1>media and so forth, and just changes in the nature

0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.320
<v Speaker 1>of the party system, like all these things can explain

0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:39.000
<v Speaker 1>the incentives for for extremism. But it seems to me

0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:42.160
<v Speaker 1>that what we've got to do is to try and

0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:45.480
<v Speaker 1>push back again, set and give our students a sense

0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:48.560
<v Speaker 1>that there is something that stake here, and that, however

0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:53.160
<v Speaker 1>strong those temptations might be, there's an overriding responsibility and

0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:58.320
<v Speaker 1>a call to commitment by them to help peel this country.

0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:00.520
<v Speaker 1>And so, you know, again, we can talk about this

0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:02.560
<v Speaker 1>in abstract terms, or we can get you know, in

0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:06.320
<v Speaker 1>more concrete ways. You know, the move that we've seen

0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:11.159
<v Speaker 1>over the last several decades to universities allowing students to

0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.760
<v Speaker 1>self select their first year roommates instead of actually the

0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:18.000
<v Speaker 1>universities deciding how to mix it up. I mean, that's

0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:21.880
<v Speaker 1>something that I think a number of universities, including our own, recently,

0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:25.399
<v Speaker 1>have decided to say, you can't replicate the kind of

0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:28.800
<v Speaker 1>enclaves that you're coming from on campus. We're gonna insist

0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:31.320
<v Speaker 1>that you meet others and learn about others, you know,

0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:34.439
<v Speaker 1>at the same time, UM, and we're thinking about living

0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:37.399
<v Speaker 1>and dining arrangements and so forth, and trying to again

0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:43.399
<v Speaker 1>really foster UH, the UM requirement that people interact across

0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:47.840
<v Speaker 1>UH the differences that are here. We're also thinking about

0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:50.640
<v Speaker 1>how we can can I Can I jump in? Run?

0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:52.960
<v Speaker 1>Can I jump in? I think that's brilliant because when

0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:54.679
<v Speaker 1>I went to college, I didn't have any choice in

0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:58.280
<v Speaker 1>my freshman roommate and um, I have to say, she

0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:00.680
<v Speaker 1>was a black American and it was is really good

0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:04.000
<v Speaker 1>for me having grown up in a New York City

0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:07.879
<v Speaker 1>suburb where it was largely white and um, along with

0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.640
<v Speaker 1>being in New York City, it was just eye opening

0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:13.240
<v Speaker 1>for me. And I think it was really educational. But

0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:15.080
<v Speaker 1>I didn't have a choice, and it was, I think

0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:16.480
<v Speaker 1>a great thing. And I see what the kids. I

0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:18.560
<v Speaker 1>saw what my daughter who went off to college, where

0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:20.480
<v Speaker 1>they're back and forth and talking to each other and

0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.840
<v Speaker 1>everybody's kind of select they were able to select like

0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:26.280
<v Speaker 1>who she was with. UM, and I just think, I

0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:29.160
<v Speaker 1>think you're spot on about how that could make a difference.

0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:32.120
<v Speaker 1>So that's just, you know, that's just it's such a

0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:34.760
<v Speaker 1>small thing, but it's a very powerfuling in a way.

0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:37.000
<v Speaker 1>And you know, when we know that the city that

0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:41.120
<v Speaker 1>we know, we Americans are increasingly living in Enclays where

0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:43.199
<v Speaker 1>we're with people who are a lot like us in

0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:47.080
<v Speaker 1>terms of shared political beliefs, socio economic levels and so forth.

0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.560
<v Speaker 1>But again, we can mix it up at university and say,

0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:54.520
<v Speaker 1>given the incredible diversity of backgrounds as here in perspectives,

0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:57.520
<v Speaker 1>we're not going to let you replicate the enclaves, the

0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:00.320
<v Speaker 1>solitudes we've seen in America. The other thing that I

0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:02.919
<v Speaker 1>was just you know, I also think it's important is,

0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:07.560
<v Speaker 1>you know, having students and be exposed to lots and

0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:12.480
<v Speaker 1>lots of structured debates where we see conservatives and liberal

0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:16.560
<v Speaker 1>progressives interacting with each other in the same forum. It's

0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:19.160
<v Speaker 1>not a case of you bring in a confortative one

0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.000
<v Speaker 1>week and then on the same subject the liberal students

0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:25.560
<v Speaker 1>will bring in their candidate or their speaker, but rather

0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:28.439
<v Speaker 1>that you know, we start to model how it is

0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:33.919
<v Speaker 1>that you have good conversations that UM again are indicative

0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:36.119
<v Speaker 1>of our effort to try and figure out what are

0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:41.560
<v Speaker 1>the best ideas on artiments that Leach have listen such

0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:44.920
<v Speaker 1>a timely conversation. Thank you so much for joining us, UH,

0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:46.840
<v Speaker 1>and I hope we can get you back on in

0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:49.280
<v Speaker 1>the future. Again. That was Ron Daniels, his president of

0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:52.840
<v Speaker 1>John Hopkins University. His new book is What Universities Oh

0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:56.280
<v Speaker 1>Democracy Now. As we mentioned Michael Bloomberg certainly UM a

0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:59.960
<v Speaker 1>supporter of the Bloomberg Hopkins School of Public Health,