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Speaker 1: Hope Leo named a new bishop in China. What does

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Speaker 1: this mean visa VI the Vatican China deal.

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Speaker 2: Is this a new.

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Speaker 1: Direction or a continuation the Prayerful Posse.

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Speaker 2: We'll tell you next.

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Speaker 3: Thanks.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to a Royal Grande series, The Prayerful Posse, where

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Speaker 1: we dive into matters of faith and its impact on culture.

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Speaker 2: Let's convene the Posse.

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Speaker 1: Joining me now, Father Gerald Murray, Canon lawyer of the

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Speaker 1: Archdiocese of New York, and Robert Royal, editor.

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Speaker 2: In chief of the Catholic Thing, and I'm raimed An.

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Speaker 1: Arroyo Vatican journalist Diane Montano will join us a little later.

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Speaker 1: Go subscribe to the Arroyo Grande podcast now on iHeart, Apple, Spotify,

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Speaker 1: or on YouTube at a Royo Grande Show. We don't

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Speaker 1: want you to miss an episode of the Posse. We've

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Speaker 1: been covering gens the Vatican secret deal with China for years. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: it allows Chinese authorities the right to approve and even

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Speaker 1: choose bishops, allegedly with the Pope's approval. At least that's

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Speaker 1: how it's supposed to work. They actually appointed two bishops

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Speaker 1: after the death of Pope Francis when there was no

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Speaker 1: pontiff to approve anything. The Vatican has acknowledged that the

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Speaker 1: Chinese have repeatedly violated that secret deal. Now, Pope Leo

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Speaker 1: the fourteenth has appointed Bishop Joseph Lynn Juan Twin as

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Speaker 1: auxiliary bishop of the Archdiocese of Fuzhau in China. The

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Speaker 1: CCP has approved the appointment. So father, is the Pope

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Speaker 1: signaling that he will continue to abide by the China

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Speaker 1: Deal or is this something else happening.

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Speaker 4: I think that's what's happening, Raymond. You know that the

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Speaker 4: China Deal is in. He didn't sign it. It was

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Speaker 4: signed by Pope Francis and the Cardinal Secretary of State Paroleine,

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Speaker 4: So he's continuing to work within that framework. The interesting

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Speaker 4: thing was that he choose is now to make a

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Speaker 4: Vatican sanction or approval of an auxiliary bishop who had

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Speaker 4: in the underground church. And from what I've read, he

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Speaker 4: has This underground bishop now is being recognized by the

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Speaker 4: Chinese Communist government because the bishop that he's going to

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Speaker 4: be an auxiliary to had a good opinion of him

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Speaker 4: and they got along. So there's not a lot of

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Speaker 4: clarity on what led to this, but that's the way

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Speaker 4: the whole China deal's been. But at least we have

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Speaker 4: now a vaticant approval of someone who was in the

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Speaker 4: underground church therefore was a very faithful Catholic for all

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Speaker 4: those years.

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Speaker 1: He is a seventy three year old bishop, Bob who

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Speaker 1: was consecrated, as Father said clandestinely in twenty seventeen, reportedly

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Speaker 1: underground bishop loyal to Rome.

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Speaker 2: How do you read this, Bob? Is this?

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Speaker 1: I mean, it is the first time the pope has

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Speaker 1: actually put forward a nominee that was approved, whereas in

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Speaker 1: the past they were imposed. And Francis just said, yes.

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Speaker 5: Well, I have to say, I mean, I'm trying to

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Speaker 5: be hopeful about this. We're dealing with a communist regime

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Speaker 5: and we know what that means. They are perfectly happy

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Speaker 5: to manipulate and look like their cooperative when they want

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Speaker 5: and they think it might be to their advantage. But

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Speaker 5: of course, as you just said, Raymond, when there was

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Speaker 5: no pope, they just went right ahead and appointed a

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Speaker 5: visions I have to say, my heart kind of sank

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Speaker 5: when Matteo Brunei, the spokesman for the Vaticans, said that

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Speaker 5: the Chinese had accepted the nomination by Pope Leo as

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Speaker 5: if oh wow, you know, gee, they actually agreed to

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Speaker 5: somebody that we sent over there. Now, look, he seems

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Speaker 5: to be a good guy. He existed in the underground Church,

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Speaker 5: which has been under oppression and threat, and we still

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Speaker 5: don't know what's ultimately going to happen with that. People

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Speaker 5: like Cardinals Zen are very worried because it may mean

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Speaker 5: the end of the underground Church and they may be integrated,

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Speaker 5: and that seems to be part of the scheme of

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Speaker 5: this agreement. One of the things that worried me the

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Speaker 5: most in the news stories that I saw is that

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Speaker 5: he agreed. He said he was perfectly loyal to the regime.

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Speaker 5: He would, you know, he would try to help to

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Speaker 5: all Chinese to be loyal and good citizens of Communists China,

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Speaker 5: and he accepts centization as the framework for his activities,

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Speaker 5: which I hope don't includes the church, because what we

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Speaker 5: know of centitization means, you know, putting up pictures of

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Speaker 5: President g and rewriting the Gospels in certain places. So look,

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Speaker 5: it's a mixed bag, but I don't like it. I

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Speaker 5: don't trust communists. I think that the signs are still

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Speaker 5: very ambivalent. I hope it goes well, but boy, it

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Speaker 5: would take let's say, several miracles for.

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Speaker 3: That to happen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I've heard two possibilities here, one saying Leo is keeping

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Speaker 1: the Francis China deal alive. The other claim, and I've

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Speaker 1: heard this from some folks in who've been in China,

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Speaker 1: they claim that this is the first time the pope

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Speaker 1: has made the first move and actually appointed a bishop.

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Speaker 1: France has accepted the people China sent over, at times

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Speaker 1: dislocating sitting listit bishops.

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Speaker 2: So, Father, what do you believe to be true here?

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Speaker 3: I really wish I know, Raymond.

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Speaker 4: It's interesting to hear that information because it was presented

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Speaker 4: as a Vatican initiative that the Chinese government agreed to.

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Speaker 4: Now the question is, was there a you know, back

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Speaker 4: channel communication before that was published which said, go ahead,

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Speaker 4: send it to us, will approve it. And what Bob

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Speaker 4: says is very troubling. The cnicization of the Church makes

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Speaker 4: China and its government the primary object of loyalty, and

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Speaker 4: then the Church is a servant of that government in

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Speaker 4: that country, which we never say, you know, we you know,

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Speaker 4: I'm God's servant first, and then the kings.

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Speaker 1: It also turns the church and every Mass into a

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Speaker 1: propaganda tool for the Chinese communists. I mean they're inserting

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Speaker 1: Ji and Mau into the stories of the Gospel like

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Speaker 1: they walk onto the scene. I mean, this is crazy,

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Speaker 1: and everybody under eighteen is forbidden from going to Mass.

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Speaker 1: I don't see how the church can accept this at all, Bob,

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Speaker 1: I'll give you the last word.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, look, Leo has been presented with a

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Speaker 5: very bad situation, so maybe you're right that what he's

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Speaker 5: trying to do here is keep this thing alive for

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Speaker 5: the time being. Pope Francis himself admitted that China there

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Speaker 5: were going to be Chinese Catholics who are going to

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Speaker 5: suffer under the new regime, but he he just was

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Speaker 5: willing to accept that because he has He and Cardinal

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Speaker 5: Pauline kept saying, you can't go on forever with this

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Speaker 5: divided church in the country. But I don't know that

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Speaker 5: this is a solution. It seems to me that the

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Speaker 5: citiization goes so far as to say that there shall

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Speaker 5: be no loyalties to entities outside of China, and so

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Speaker 5: the church that is in communion with Rome. And this

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Speaker 5: was the sticking point that Benedict the sixteenth always brought up.

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Speaker 5: It's a matter of ecclesiology that the church has got

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Speaker 5: to be the church, and the church has got to

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Speaker 5: be in union with the successor of Peter. It can't

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Speaker 5: be run entirely by the government. And you know, whatever

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Speaker 5: connections it allows to a place like Rome, that's just

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Speaker 5: a concession because the focus is internal to China.

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Speaker 3: Ye, it's worries.

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Speaker 1: We have to watch this deal and how it progresses.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's a Faustian bargain for those poor people,

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Speaker 1: though under the boot of communism. Another story this week

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Speaker 1: we've been covering, the Vatican appears to a finally removed

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Speaker 1: artwork by disgrace Jesuit father Marco Rupnik from its official websites.

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Speaker 1: The use of Rupnik's artwork has persisted not only on

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Speaker 1: Vatican sites, but in Catholic churches and facilities around the world.

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Speaker 1: Not long ago, Vatican press officials had claimed the Rupnik

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Speaker 1: art should remain because we're all sinners. Bob, what do

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Speaker 1: you think drove this turn about?

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Speaker 5: Well, you know, we can't tell because there hasn't been

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Speaker 5: any explanation coming out from the Vatican press office. But

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Speaker 5: it's not hard to imagine that the people there seems

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Speaker 5: to be a particular figure who was loyal to Rupnik,

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Speaker 5: a woman who is part of the Vatican Press Office,

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Speaker 5: and it seems like she was protecting the brand, so

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Speaker 5: to speak. She was keeping those images up on the website.

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Speaker 5: It's not hard to imagine that other forces now within

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Speaker 5: the Vatican Press Office know that the boss doesn't like this.

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Speaker 5: Even if he didn't, he didn't order it explicitly. You

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Speaker 5: just get the impression from Pope Leo that that's not him.

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Speaker 5: That Rupnik, for some reason, as a jesuit and then

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Speaker 5: an ex jesuit, continued to be protected by Pope Francis

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Speaker 5: or by somebody for some reason that seems to have disappeared. So,

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Speaker 5: whether this is a sea change or it's just a

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Speaker 5: kind of a recognition that, look, we're not going to

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Speaker 5: do that anymore. It's still a good thing.

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Speaker 2: Father.

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Speaker 1: Why did it take the death of one pope and

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Speaker 1: the election of another to do the right thing here?

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Speaker 1: And I mean this man is charged with horrible crimes.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, No, the Roupnik case is going to be a

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Speaker 4: case study and the failure of the pontificate of Pope Francis,

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Speaker 4: and I think it was motivated by his personal appreciation

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Speaker 4: of Rupnik, without taking due consideration of the complaints of

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Speaker 4: Rupnik's victims. You know, Rupnik was found guilty of having

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Speaker 4: absolved someone with whom he had sexual relations. That's a

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Speaker 4: canonical violation of results in excommunication. And the only one

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Speaker 4: who can lift that is the Pope. Well, about two

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Speaker 4: weeks after this penalty was imposed, he was freed from it.

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Speaker 3: It was lifted.

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Speaker 4: There was no explanation, but it's clear that could only

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Speaker 4: be the Pope or the Pope authorizing a delegate to

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Speaker 4: go ahead and do it. Then Rupnik was investigated a

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Speaker 4: couple of times.

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Speaker 3: The evidence was brought forward.

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Speaker 4: The Jesuits decided we have to do something, so they

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Speaker 4: start an investigation. Rupnik would not cooperate with the investigation,

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Speaker 4: and as a member of a religious order, if the

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Speaker 4: superior says, show up for an interview, you got to

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Speaker 4: do it. He was thrown out of the Jesuits. Then

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Speaker 4: the Vatican said, well, we can't prosecute him because there's

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Speaker 4: a statute limitations. Even though the statute of limitations is

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Speaker 4: regularly waived in Vatican proceedings.

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Speaker 3: Pope Francis was asked about it by.

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Speaker 4: An interview, he said, well, you know, we always wave

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Speaker 4: it if it's sexual abuse of a minor, but with

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Speaker 4: adults is something different. Now, that standard, that standard just

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Speaker 4: made me want to fall back and get sick. Rupnik

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Speaker 4: was taking advantage of novice nuns, and he was claiming

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Speaker 4: that there was a spiritual purpose to sex abuse and

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Speaker 4: it helped him to be a good artist. Now you're

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Speaker 4: watching enough crime shows to know criminals know how to

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Speaker 4: lie and manipulate people very well. And that's what happened here.

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Speaker 1: So and those who are pathological use their sin, use

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Speaker 1: their crime, and create relics of them, by the way,

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Speaker 1: like little mementos. That's what happened here. He abused these

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Speaker 1: poor sisters psychologically, physically, and then used the outpouring of

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Speaker 1: that sin in the art world. That's all over the

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Speaker 1: place in churches. I mean, I think it's profane art

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Speaker 1: and really should be removed.

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Speaker 2: I'll give quick to both of you before I go

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Speaker 2: to Diane Montga.

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Speaker 5: Bob mean, somebody, I don't remember who said this, but

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Speaker 5: somebody made the point that, look, Carivar.

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Speaker 3: Joe was no saint.

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Speaker 5: He was a great artist, but he was no saint.

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Speaker 5: But he never used his sinfulness to advance his art.

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Speaker 5: And then on top of this, and I think this

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Speaker 5: is the most pressing point of all in the church

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Speaker 5: that is trying to finally turn the page on this

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Speaker 5: abused crisis, that the victims are still alive. And then

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Speaker 5: every time they go into a place where those images

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Speaker 5: are up, you know they must be triggered, they must

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Speaker 5: be be traumatized in some fashion. And other people who've

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Speaker 5: been sexually abused. I mean here in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 5: Where I live, they've covered over the Rupnik mosaics in

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Speaker 5: the Basilica of the Immaculate Conception. The same with the

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Speaker 5: Knights of Columbus up in New So you know, if

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Speaker 5: a woman comes in who has been abused, she is

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Speaker 5: confronted and people know about this, they aren't immediately having

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Speaker 5: in their face images that were produced out of sacrilegious

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Speaker 5: activities that they're almost unprecedented in the history of the church.

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Speaker 1: No, no, and the fact that their sexual abuse only

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Speaker 1: takes it to another level. For more on what took

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Speaker 1: place of the Vatican this week, we are joined by

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Speaker 1: Diane Montagna, Vatican journalist and an honorary Prayerful Posse member. Diane,

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Speaker 1: I want to start with the Rupnik case. He was tried,

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Speaker 1: he was excommunicated, and then he was restored, and later

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Speaker 1: the statute of limitations were lifted. Where does this stand.

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Speaker 6: Now, Yes, well, I mean, Raymond, the latest that we've

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Speaker 6: heard from the Vatican is that, in a sense it's

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Speaker 6: very slow moving and installed. The last we heard from

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Speaker 6: the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith is that

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Speaker 6: they couldn't find the judges appropriate judges to take care

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Speaker 6: of this case. I think in part because there has

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Speaker 6: been so much media attention to this case where they

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Speaker 6: get concerned that perhaps the judges view might be biased

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Speaker 6: a bit from all of the reporting that there's been

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Speaker 6: in the media. But it has been slow walked for

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Speaker 6: quite some time now, though I expect. I mean, the

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Speaker 6: signs that we're seeing now in terms of even the

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Speaker 6: Rupnik art being taken down from the Vatican News site,

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Speaker 6: I think is a sign and is widely seen here

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Speaker 6: in Rome as a sign that the tide may be

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Speaker 6: shifting in regard to Rupnik.

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Speaker 2: Did you have any other conversations about this this week?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, so, I've talked to a couple of people. Of course, Adnicospontoni,

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Speaker 6: the Italian journalist wrote a great article explaining everything for

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Speaker 6: the Novo Bussola Daily Compass and when she pointed out

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Speaker 6: that it was Cardinal O'Malley that a year ago wrote

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Speaker 6: a letter to the Pope requesting that entered the Dicastri

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Speaker 6: for Secretariat for Communications, requesting this art taken down specifically

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Speaker 6: from the Vatican News site, but nothing was done. So,

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Speaker 6: I mean, I've talked to some people within the Vatican

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Speaker 6: who deal with in this realm and they say that

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Speaker 6: so one thing is that you know, no one in

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Speaker 6: the ordinary office of Vatican News knew anything about this happening.

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Speaker 6: Most of them found out from the media. Now, what

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Speaker 6: that suggests is that this was taken care of, certainly

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Speaker 6: at a high level, was it. And people say that

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Speaker 6: Paulo Ruffini, the Prefect for the Secretariat for Communications, had

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Speaker 6: to have been involved. And then another key figure that

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Speaker 6: would be Natasha Govicar. She's written books with Rupnik, she

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Speaker 6: has a good relationship with Rupnik, and she's a Slovenian

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Speaker 6: theologian and she's the current director of the Theological Pastoral

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Speaker 6: Department of the Secretariat for Communications, and this is a

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Speaker 6: position she's held since twenty sixteen. By and large, it's

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Speaker 6: interesting to know the Rupnik images appeared on to illustrate

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Speaker 6: either feast days or Saint's Days on the Vatican website,

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Speaker 6: and that was her department. She was a friend of Rupnik,

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Speaker 6: and so they continued, despite please even from the victims,

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Speaker 6: to be taken down.

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Speaker 3: Outrageous, just outrageous.

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Speaker 6: It thought even that there was this was a preemptive

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Speaker 6: mood move from the head of the Secretary for Communications,

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Speaker 6: seeing that maybe the tide is turning, or it was

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Speaker 6: there was a call from higher up saying it needs

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Speaker 6: to come down.

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Speaker 1: Central to this Rupnik case, I mean you mentioned Cardinal

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Speaker 1: Tucci Fernandez, the head of the doc Trinal department at

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Speaker 1: the Vatican. He's the person charged with finding the judges

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Speaker 1: in that case. There was a report Diane, earlier this

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Speaker 1: week that the Pope had met with Fernandez and decided

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Speaker 1: to extend his leadership at the dicast of the Doctor Faith.

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Speaker 1: But there have been a lot of problems with that

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Speaker 1: initial report. Is there any credibility to this.

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Speaker 6: Well, I think this really has to be treated as

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Speaker 6: a rumor at this point. Raymond. You know, there was

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Speaker 6: one report that came out. It was based on anonymous sources,

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Speaker 6: and certainly sometimes anonymous sources could be correct. But in

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Speaker 6: this case, one article out in Spanish media that it

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Speaker 6: perhaps the person who wrote it was thinking of the

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Speaker 6: temporary confirmation that Pope Leo has given to all of

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Speaker 6: the Dicastri heads. I just think that it's way too

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Speaker 6: early to assume that that report is correct.

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Speaker 2: And for those joining us late in the game.

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Speaker 1: Cardinal Fernandez was the ghost writer of a lot of

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Speaker 1: Pope Francis's works, including The Blessing for Gay Unions, La

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Speaker 1: Datto c The Climate and Cyclical Anything I'm missing, Well.

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Speaker 6: There was the document on Apparitions Human Dignity. But I mean, certainly, Raymond,

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Speaker 6: the most you know, one thing that Pope Leo has

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Speaker 6: stressed practically every time that he's spoken from the beginning

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Speaker 6: of his pontificate is his particular desire for unity and communion,

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Speaker 6: and he's spoken explicitly about how he sees that unit.

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Speaker 6: He rightly sees that unity as rooted in Christ. The

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Speaker 6: closer we are to Christ, the more united we are

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Speaker 6: amongst ourselves, the further we get away from Him. That's,

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Speaker 6: you know, So that is certainly something he's made a priority.

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Speaker 6: So the idea. I think we should take the report

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Speaker 6: about Cardinal Fernandez with the grain of salt, because surely

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Speaker 6: the Pope knows what a controversial and even I hate

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Speaker 6: to say, scandalous figure Cardinal Fernandez is for some of

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Speaker 6: his writings from years ago.

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Speaker 1: Diane, Pope Leo had a meeting this week that got

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Speaker 1: too little attention, really, because again it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: prism into where he is, where his mind is, how

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Speaker 1: he regards the church and priests within it. He met

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Speaker 1: with the priest of Rome and he told them, quote,

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Speaker 1: you are all precious in the eyes of God and

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Speaker 1: in the realization of His plan. I ask you this

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Speaker 1: with all my heart of a father and a pastor.

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Speaker 1: Let us all commit to be incredible and exemplary priests.

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Speaker 1: How did this message startle people in Rome? I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's very different from that of his predecessor.

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Speaker 6: Oh, it went over very very well among the priest Raymond.

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Speaker 6: I mean I spoke to a few priests different backgrounds,

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Speaker 6: and they said, you know, when priest said that this

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Speaker 6: pope radiates an extraordinary kindness and serenity, and it's the opposite,

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Speaker 6: to be honest, of what they experienced years ago. They

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Speaker 6: said the climate was so warm. I think there were

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Speaker 6: three hundred parish priests and maybe five thousand clergy of Rome,

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Speaker 6: and so I think it's been seen as a real

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Speaker 6: triumph the Pope. Certainly he stressed spiritual life and the

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Speaker 6: importance of priests growing in their spiritual life. As you

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Speaker 6: pointed out, he thanked the priests for their service, for

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Speaker 6: their dedication to the Diocese of Roman to souls. So

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Speaker 6: the message was right on. It was extremely well received

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Speaker 6: and marks a very good turn for the morale among

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Speaker 6: the clergy.

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Speaker 5: Here.

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Speaker 1: I noticed that Archbishop Zanceta, who finally left Rome after

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Speaker 1: years of protection by Pope Francis, now he was set

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Speaker 1: to be deported to face a prison sentence in Argentina.

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Speaker 1: He was a charred found guilty of sexual malfeasance with seminarians,

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Speaker 1: and not just one or two. He's now facing the music.

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Speaker 1: Why was he in the Vatican for so long, Diane.

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Speaker 6: Well, he was protected by Pope Francis, which I hate

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Speaker 6: to say. Pope Francis was his spiritual father, his confessor.

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Speaker 6: He allowed him to come back here during I think

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Speaker 6: it coincided with the investigation itself, and he gave him

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Speaker 6: a position in Apso, which is that takes care of

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Speaker 6: the apostolic patrimony of the Holy See. And then after

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Speaker 6: he after he served four months in prison, was then

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Speaker 6: told by the courts that he could be allowed to

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Speaker 6: serve the rest of his sentence in the monastery. For

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Speaker 6: health reasons, he was brought here to Rome. His time

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Speaker 6: in Jamni hospital is very much shrounded in mystery. And

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Speaker 6: just a month after Pope Leo has been elected, he's

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Speaker 6: on a plane back to Argentina.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it looks like Pop Leo's cleaning out the stables,

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Speaker 1: gently and quietly, but cleaning them out nonetheless, Let's hope

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Speaker 1: more of that continues. Diane Montana, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for being here, and we will check in with you

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Speaker 1: as a day's unfold.

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Speaker 6: Great to be here with you.

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Speaker 2: Let's pick up on what Diane was telling us.

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Speaker 1: Posse zank Keetta was convicted of sexually abusing seminarians. As

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Speaker 1: I mentioned a moment ago, he's been in Rome since

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Speaker 1: November seeking medical treatment, which, as Diane said, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of mystery surrounding that. Now he's reportedly back in Argentina.

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Speaker 1: He's going to serve a four year sentence at a monastery. Father,

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Speaker 1: why not send him to jail.

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Speaker 4: Well, the fact of the matter is he was in jail.

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Speaker 4: He was there for about two months or so, and

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Speaker 4: then mysteriously the Argentine judicial authorities put him under house

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Speaker 4: arrest and he was living in a convent. And then

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Speaker 4: while he's living in a convent under house arrest, they

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Speaker 4: allow him to go to Rome allegedly for medical treatment. Well,

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Speaker 4: I defy you to tell me. There isn't a doctor

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Speaker 4: in Buenos Aires who could take care of him. But

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Speaker 4: for some reason, he was allowed to go there and

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Speaker 4: spend six months. Now he's back, he's going to ask

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Speaker 4: for have his sent and suspended.

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Speaker 3: I read and.

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Speaker 4: This is a man who lied to the pope. He

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Speaker 4: was originally caught because he used his cell phone to

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Speaker 4: record imral videos of himself and he gave it to

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Speaker 4: one of his media people in the diocese and said,

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Speaker 4: there's some photos here of a church and I'd like

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Speaker 4: to put them on the dasa's website. The man found

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Speaker 4: the video, which was disgusting, reported it to the nuncio

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Speaker 4: and authorities.

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Speaker 3: It got to Rome. So what does zen Ketta do.

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Speaker 4: He goes to Rome and tells about Well, my phone

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Speaker 4: was hacked, you know, the Anthony Wiener defense, you know,

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's just absolutely disgusting, and the Pope treated

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Speaker 4: him with kid gloves. There's a reason for that, said

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Speaker 4: to say, historically, this man was a spiritual direct when

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Speaker 4: Pope Francis was the archbishop of Buenos Airis and he

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Speaker 4: worked as an official in the bishop's conference. So Zanketta

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Speaker 4: was the first bishop named by Pope Francis. He was

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Speaker 4: protected when serious evidence was shown that he was living

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Speaker 4: in an immoral and perverse lifestyle. Then he's convicted and

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Speaker 4: he's given all these benefits. So no, it's a disgrace

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Speaker 4: the canonical with cib of being a crime in this

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Speaker 4: in Argentinian law, it's canonical to commit sex abuse against seminarians,

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Speaker 4: which is what he's convicted of. It was announced years

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Speaker 4: ago that there was a canonical process. We never heard

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Speaker 4: another word of it. Yeah, I call upon the Holy

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Speaker 4: See to tell us is there still a canonical process?

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Speaker 4: Was a terminating We never knew this man needs to

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Speaker 4: be removed from the priesthood. He manipulated his position as

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Speaker 4: a bishop to get seminarians to commit immoral acts with him.

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Speaker 4: He compelled them to the kids had no choice. This

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Speaker 4: is disgusting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Bob, your thoughts on his quick exit to Argentina

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Speaker 1: with the arrival of Pope Leo. I mean we talked

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Speaker 1: about Pope Leo earlier telling the priests you have to

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Speaker 1: live your lives fully and be credible. Again, that's important.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, I was struck as I was looking

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Speaker 5: in the news reports about how he had apparently had

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Speaker 5: to have some kind of heart surgery, And I agree

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Speaker 5: with you, it's hard to believe that a wealthy and

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Speaker 5: pretty much developed country like Argentina doesn't have the capability

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Speaker 5: of doing heart surgery. But then what happened, and is

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Speaker 5: that he was supposed to go back sometime in April,

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Speaker 5: and he continued to stay.

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Speaker 3: I mean, he'd been through.

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Speaker 5: The process if there was an operation and when it

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Speaker 5: has come forth and actually confirm that. But he went

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Speaker 5: through whatever medical treatment and recovery took place, and then

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Speaker 5: he stayed in Rome, and then all this conversation started

435
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 5: about you know, is he going to go back to

436
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 5: the monasteries. He can wear an ankle bracelet, Is he

437
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 5: can to try to get the conviction or at least

438
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:36,120
Speaker 5: the sentence community it or something, and he's still there

439
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 5: until the pope dies. Then when the new guy comes

440
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 5: in again. You know, like with the rupnik Art, it's

441
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 5: not hard to imagine that someone turned to him and said, look,

442
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 5: that American pope, he wants you to go back to

443
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 5: South America.

444
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: Ah, well he got somebody got the message, and that's

445
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,919
Speaker 1: a good thing. A relative to this, the USCCB issued

446
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: it's twenty twenty four report on sex abuse allegations against

447
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 1: Catholic clergy. Now this is restricted to July first, twenty

448
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 1: twenty three to June thirtieth, twenty twenty four. During that period,

449
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: the abuse scandal has cost dioceses nearly two hundred and

450
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 1: forty three million dollars. There were nine hundred and two

451
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 1: allegations of sexual abuse by clergy by a reported eight

452
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty five victims. They say the number of

453
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 1: allegations have dropped sharply since twenty nineteen, when there were

454
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: four thousand.

455
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 2: Five hundred accusations filed. Father Some of the.

456
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 1: Reportage on this story seems to focus on the sharp

457
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 1: drop in allegations because there was some investigation of each

458
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: of these charges. But I mean nine hundred and plus

459
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,159
Speaker 1: allegations that's still a pretty high number.

460
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 4: Yes, it is, and we have to take into consideration

461
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 4: the allegations can date before the time period that we're

462
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 4: looking at. So, in other words, not all nine one hundred,

463
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 4: et cetera allegations for that calendar year that they're using. Nonetheless,

464
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 4: look at it. The sex abuse revelations came out in

465
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 4: two thousand and one.

466
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 3: We started getting these.

467
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 4: One of the archizes of Boston was compelled to reveal

468
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 4: what they knew. And now we're getting nine hundred more

469
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 4: cases and you know, eight hundred victims. You know, given

470
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 4: the possibility that there are some false accusations, that number

471
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,199
Speaker 4: may be a little high. But the general understanding and

472
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 4: canoness have looked this. This is over time. Most of these

473
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 4: charges are merited. In other words, something happened, something was

474
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 4: done to somebody.

475
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 3: This is a lot of cases.

476
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, well we got to do something.

477
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: When you dig into the data, and again the USCCB

478
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: is reporting this, they claim that seven percent of those

479
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: allegations were deemed credible, sixty two percent were unable to

480
00:26:55,080 --> 00:27:00,160
Speaker 1: be proven, and five percent were unsubstantiated twenty six per

481
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: our ongoing investigations. Father So, of course, due process should

482
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: and must be followed in all these cases. But why

483
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 1: does this issue continue to persist to such a degree, Bob,

484
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 1: after all of the attention and time spent on this

485
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: and money.

486
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, I wish that those numbers had been broken down

487
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 5: a little bit differently because there was another statistic in

488
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,719
Speaker 5: that reporting that is very odd. It that's something like

489
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 5: over fifty percent of the priests were accused or now dead.

490
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 3: So, you know, we.

491
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 5: It's like a you know, a polluted stream. It's bad,

492
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 5: so you stop polluting it and it gets a little

493
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 5: bit purer and a little bit puer and a little

494
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 5: bit purer. But I agree with Father, these are large

495
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 5: numbers and that means unfortunately, we're not near the end

496
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,239
Speaker 5: of this, and we need to get a grip on

497
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 5: this and fast. So, you know, the bishops seemed to

498
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 5: want to present this as if it's encouraging news, and

499
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 5: maybe it is, but I think that they need to

500
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 5: do a better job of then why it's encouraging if

501
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 5: it's true that only fifty percent of those are really

502
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 5: live priests today. Okay, so now we're down to four

503
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 5: hundred and fifty, which in fifty states is still a lot.

504
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 5: But the church has not only a difficult pr problem here,

505
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 5: which is not doing very well at it's also still

506
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 5: got a disciplinary problem that I hope our bishops finally

507
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 5: get a grip on.

508
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: Well, you know, Bob, as our friend Cardinal George pel

509
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 1: used to say, you know, moral bankruptcy usually precedes financial bankruptcy,

510
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: and we've seen that in dioceses after Diocese Washington, d C.

511
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 1: Which we talked about on the show this week, New Orleans,

512
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: my own Diocese of New Orleans. All across the country.

513
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: You see these dioceses declaring bankruptcy because they paid hundreds

514
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: of millions of dollars over this scandal. And still there

515
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be an intentionality to either screen these

516
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: candidates or make sure that everybody's towing the line here.

517
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: It's an ongoing problem. Moving on to another story, big

518
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: one this week, the protests and riots in Los Angeles

519
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: that it resulted in ice the immigration enforcement raids in

520
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: that city last week. On Friday, June sixth, Archbishop Jose

521
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: Gomez of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles issued the following statement,

522
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: we all agree quote. We all agree that we don't

523
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: want undocumented immigrants who are known terrorists or violent criminals

524
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: in our communities, But there is no need for the

525
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: government to carry out enforcement actions in a way that

526
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: provokes fear and anxiety among ordinary, hard working immigrants and

527
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: their families. Other nations have a coherent immigration policy that

528
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: respects the natural rights of the people to emigrate in

529
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: search of a better life and also ensures control of

530
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: their borders. America should too. It's been almost forty years

531
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: since the last reform of our immigration laws. That's too long,

532
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: and it's time to do something about that. End quote father.

533
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: In that statement, Artificial Golmez called for restraint and calm

534
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: from everyone involved. Should it have made a stronger statement.

535
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 1: Do you think condemning the violence, the anarchy on the streets,

536
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: the violent attacks on law enforcement.

537
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 4: Well, I think a subsequent statement would have to add

538
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 4: to it would have been very useful, because precisely, if

539
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 4: you know, they've been profane graffiti, they've been throwing objects,

540
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 4: they've been burning cars. I mean, this isn't a protest

541
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 4: against a police action in as much as it's kind

542
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 4: of like an action to delegitimize the whole government to

543
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 4: say we're going to create anarchy in the streets until

544
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 4: you stop exercising authority. So that's troubling. And the other

545
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 4: thing is why would ordinary immigrants meaning people here legally,

546
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 4: why would they be troubled when criminal aliens meaning because

547
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 4: that's the focus of the ICE action now illegal aliens

548
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 4: who are known to have committed crimes or accused of crimes,

549
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 4: why should they be afraid when they're rounded up? Typically

550
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 4: illegal alien criminals live in the community with other immigrants,

551
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 4: so they terrorized them.

552
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 3: So that statement, unfortunately was.

553
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 4: Not supported enough of law enforcement.

554
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 3: And what's the context?

555
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 2: How many?

556
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 4: How many million people came in under the Biden ministry?

557
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 4: Twenty one million.

558
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 3: That's what they said.

559
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: That's what that's that's what at least the current administration

560
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: is reporting that twenty one million people entered the country.

561
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 3: We exist.

562
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 4: So another the context here is not, well, there are

563
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 4: a few people came over the border, why bother everyone

564
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 4: else just refuge. There's a massive load of people who

565
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 4: are causing problems and they were released onto the streets

566
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 4: by the Biden administration.

567
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: And Bob we have on the books, I mean archificial

568
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: gummas mentioned the immigration reform. There are laws on the books.

569
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: You can't come illegally without permission or overstate your visa.

570
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: In the United States, that's the law of the land.

571
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: It's federal law. So I don't know what are we

572
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: just calling for open open borders should be the immigration

573
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: policy of the land, so everybody can come and go

574
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: as they please.

575
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, I thought this was a disappointing statement from the archbishop. Prey, generally,

576
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 5: I think is a good man. I think he did

577
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 5: issue another statement about other people, about people being calm

578
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 5: and not resorting to violence.

579
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 3: I was glad that he'd do that.

580
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 5: But look, you know, I frequently when this debate comes up,

581
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 5: it frustrates me that our bishops still talk about the

582
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 5: right to emigrant. There is no right to immigrant. You

583
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 5: know that you have the right to apply to enter

584
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 5: another country. You don't have a right to enter in

585
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 5: another country, and you do have a right under international

586
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 5: law if you are a refugee. Now this is a

587
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 5: different category. This means if you are in a country

588
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 5: where your life is in imminent danger. You know, say

589
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 5: there's a terrible regime and you're a protester and they're

590
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 5: trying to kill you and your family, Yes, you have

591
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 5: a right to asylum. I mean you're protecting a person's life.

592
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 5: But we have already an immigration system. My wife is

593
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 5: an immigrant. My wife was born in France. My wife

594
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 5: is an immigrant, and she gets furious. I'm actually the

595
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 5: commone in the family.

596
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 2: It is in our family too that's enraged as well.

597
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 5: They got in line and they back in those days,

598
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 5: you have to have a sponsoring family here who said

599
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 5: you would not go on the welfare roles, that they

600
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 5: would take care of you if you couldn't find work,

601
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 5: et cetera. You know, what about the rights of the

602
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 5: people who are not getting jobs right now, who find

603
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 5: it hard to get housing because it's more expensive because

604
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 5: there is a glut of illegals and all those other

605
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 5: you know, secondary problems in addition to the crime. But

606
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 5: there are those secondary problems that we need to protect

607
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 5: against and it's our government that has a responsibility to

608
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 5: prevent those problems from occurring.

609
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: Before I leave this very quickly, the newly appointed archbishop

610
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: or bishop brother of San Diego. He was appointed by

611
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: Pope Leo just weeks ago. He's now sent out a

612
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: statement and by all indications he as a you know,

613
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: Orthodox man, but he sent out a statement encouraging priests

614
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,720
Speaker 1: to go down to the courthouse and join any immigrant

615
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: who's there for their hearings just to support them so

616
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 1: they'll be treated. Well, Well, some of these people might

617
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: be criminals. I mean, is everyone who came into the

618
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: country just entitled to protection by the Catholic clergy father

619
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:25,879
Speaker 1: I'll start now, Yeah, I.

620
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 4: Think it would be better if they get a list

621
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 4: of these people and what they're accused of. You know,

622
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,720
Speaker 4: why is it that immigration is acting against them aside

623
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 4: from the fact they're here legally, Because right now they're

624
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 4: not rounding up every single person here legally, They're focusing

625
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 4: on the people who are threats to the community. Right,

626
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:40,879
Speaker 4: it would be better to contact ICE and say, well,

627
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 4: you know, we're our priests are concerned. Would just inform

628
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 4: us who these people are and what they're accused of,

629
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 4: Because you know, if you've got a child molestor who's

630
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 4: been convicted in ex country gets in here and is

631
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 4: therefore liable to do the same thing, why should I

632
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 4: stand next to him in line just to show support.

633
00:34:58,200 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 3: I don't know the guy.

634
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 4: And by the the way, child wissons had no right

635
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 4: to be in this country illegally, so I find that

636
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,399
Speaker 4: to be an unreflective comment on his part.

637
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a it's a kind of you know, preferential

638
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: option for any immigrant. I wish they had this kind

639
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: of love for the Latin Mass, you know, where we

640
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: just stand with the supporters of the Latin Mass every Sunday.

641
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 2: But if you're an immigrant, they're right there.

642
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 1: I mean, the truth is, there was a there was

643
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: a guy who was throwing matoul cocktails at police officers.

644
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 1: He was arrested just last week, charged by the LA

645
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 1: District of the US Attorney there. He's charged with attacking

646
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,760
Speaker 1: law enforcement. And then they find out he's an illegal

647
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: alien who's been deported once and was charged with a

648
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: grand theft auto charge back in Anaheim.

649
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 2: I mean, these are not people we should be standing with.

650
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 2: Bob will give you the last word on this.

651
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 5: Well and the loss California are really absurdive about these people.

652
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 5: I had a friend about twenty years ago. He he

653
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 5: noticed that there was a law in California that you

654
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 5: could get special benefits if you were not born in

655
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 5: the United States and you were a Spanish speaker. And

656
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,720
Speaker 5: he was a Canadian who is as English and background

657
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 5: as you can possibly be, but he had learned Spanish

658
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 5: somewhere along the way. I think he lived on in

659
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 5: Nicaragua something. So he showed up at an office. He

660
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:22,919
Speaker 5: was a journalist, so he decided to write a story

661
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 5: about this get this absurd idea? Yeah, well I was

662
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 5: born elsewhere Spanish. You know, it's you know, we're beginning

663
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 5: by cleaning out the difficulty persons that are here, but

664
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 5: there's much larger argument that's going to have to be

665
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 5: made about what are we going to be doing and

666
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 5: to wait for Congress to pass some kind of big, beautiful,

667
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 5: you know, immigration bill. I think is I've told the

668
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 5: bishops this. They've asked me to speak to them a

669
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,439
Speaker 5: couple of times about immigration. I don't think that that's

670
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 5: going to happen just because of the way our two

671
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 5: parties are right now. But in the meantime, is as

672
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 5: unpleasant as it is sometimes to have to do these things,

673
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 5: I don't think that ICE is going into restaurants randomly

674
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,879
Speaker 5: or going into home depots randomly. I think that they've

675
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 5: got the goods on the people that they're going after,

676
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 5: and for the time being, we shouldn't listen to these

677
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,240
Speaker 5: people who are apologizing as if these are just ordinary

678
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 5: farm workers or you know McDonald's workers. They're not the

679
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 5: people who were going after right now should not be here.

680
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,479
Speaker 1: Well, okay, I want to end on a happy note

681
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: or a funny note at least. There was a moment

682
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: at the end of Pope Leo's Wednesday audience and an

683
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 1: Italian bishop came up to him wearing a bucket hat

684
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: and the Pope gently tells him, right here, take your

685
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: hat off so we can get a picture. He kind

686
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: of he does it very kind of subtly, but you

687
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: can see he's clearly telling him take the hat off

688
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: in obedience. The bishop does and then post for the photo.

689
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: I loved this moment, Potzi, because you have a pope

690
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: who not only understands decorum. You don't wear a Gilligan

691
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: hat in front of the Pope. But he's me savvy.

692
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: Bob will give you a crack at this.

693
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 5: And then Father, Yeah, I mean, there's no question that

694
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 5: he has a certain sense of propriety and decorum. And

695
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 5: in this world where everything is up for grabs, the

696
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 5: fact of a figure like that who clearly is a

697
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 5: holy man, whatever decisions he made, he may make good

698
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 5: decisions or bad decisions. But in addition to being a

699
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 5: holy man. I think he's already impressed the world with

700
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 5: the dignity that he's brought back to the office of Pope.

701
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 2: Father last word, yeah.

702
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 3: I agree.

703
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 4: And you know everybody who's tempted to do, you know,

704
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 4: put on funny hats at mass and make clown masses

705
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 4: in the light, better pay attention. You know, the Pope

706
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 4: is conscious and by the way in the world we

707
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 4: live in, a photograph is forever and it can be everywhere,

708
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 4: and it can you know, the Pope doesn't want bishops

709
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 4: showing up in Gilligan hats. As you say, those are

710
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 4: for the golf courts. I mean that goes back to

711
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 4: caddy shack, you know. I mean those kind of hats

712
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 4: are really old and I don't think.

713
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 2: Well they're back Mogue father, all the kids there can

714
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 2: I get it. You're into the sun, you're outside for

715
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 2: a general audience. But when you come up to see

716
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 2: the boat taking it on off chance, we will leave

717
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 2: it there. Posse.

718
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: Look, if you want more of the Arroyo Grande prayerful Posse,

719
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 1: please subscribe to the Arroyo Grande Show on YouTube or

720
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,479
Speaker 1: a Royal Grande podcast wherever you get yours on behalf

721
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,720
Speaker 1: of Robert Royal father Gerald Murray.

722
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 2: Until the posse rides again. Stay the course, follow the light.

723
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 2: I'm raiming a arroyo. We'll see you next time. Bye, guys.

724
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 1: A Royal Grande is produced in partnership with iHeart Podcasts

725
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: and is available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you

726
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:53,920
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