WEBVTT - How E-Bikes Work 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:12.480 Get in touch with technology with text Stuff from dot Com. 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:15.800 Hey there, and welcome to Text Stuff. I'm Jonathan Strickland 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:20.600 and I'm joined once again by my esteemed colleague Scott Benjamin. Oh, 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:22.880 thank you very much. I appreciate he've asked me back 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:24.959 a few times. I know I keep doing it because 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:27.640 you keep saying yes. I appreciate the invites. This is 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:30.120 always a fun one to do, and it's uh, it's great, 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:31.600 you know. I always like to have him on. Usually 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:34.600 we have Scott on to talk about things that have 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:38.080 to do with cars, because that's the world that's Scots 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:41.000 quite familiar with. He's and I mean, I don't even 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:42.960 know how many episodes Car Stuff is up to now, 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:45.040 but it's got to be in the hundreds and hundreds. 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:47.720 It's like six fifty or so. Yeah, So you guys 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:50.120 are you know, you've been around for a while and 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:52.640 you've talked a lot about cars. But this time I 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:55.120 thought we'd talked about something a little different. We're gonna 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:59.160 talk about E Mike's which, as you mentioned before we 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:02.240 started recording. Uh, the E stands for the sound you 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:04.840 make when you're writing it. That's if you're going downhill, 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:09.039 really fast. I guess I often follow that up with 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:11.520 a series of other sounds, some of which make words 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:14.600 that I can't say on this podcast. But we were 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:19.360 talking about electric bicycles, various types of electric bicycles and 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:23.160 kind of some of their counterparts that are similar to them. 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:28.160 And you might have seen stuff about e bikes recently. Uh, 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:31.600 there's been a couple of products that have been coming 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:34.600 out of the prototype stage that have made it something 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:38.120 that is more accessible to the general public. Before, I 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:41.280 would say there were it was like a very niche audience, 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:46.200 like bicycle enthusiasts and uh, some do it yourselfers who 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:49.160 really were into this. But now we're actually seeing it 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:54.280 where people who are living in maybe city environments can 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:58.320 get hold of these, especially if they're trying to transition 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:01.680 from car ownership to something else. I mean, you've probably 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:05.640 heard the story about millennials not flocking to car ownership 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:08.440 the way previous generations have. In fact, we talked about 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:12.680 that a couple of times in previous episodes. So bicycles 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:16.120 are becoming more and more important in the United States. 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:18.760 They've been important in other parts of the world for ages, 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:22.480 and electric bikes are becoming a big part of that. 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:25.720 But here's the interesting thing. A long way to go 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:29.399 for this, But they're not a new idea, no, no, no, 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:31.359 they're far from a new idea. In fact, this goes 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:34.880 back oh what a hundred and twenty some years now, 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:38.400 I say, what, Yeah, a long long time ago. So 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:40.920 went back to uh, I want to say, it's in 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:44.960 the late eighteen hundreds, right, right, Um, I think my 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:48.000 notes say the mid to late eighteen nineties. But the 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:50.120 first one that I've actually got an account for, you know, 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:53.080 the actual the date that was given, it's right around 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:58.040 and it had a double electric motor design. Now there 0:02:58.040 --> 0:02:59.680 may have been one prior to that, I'm not sure, 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:01.960 but actually had two electric motors. And we've talked about 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:04.920 the complexity of a two motor design earlier. Today it 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:06.680 seems like it would be an impossible thing to do, 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:10.560 really nearly impossible. At least, it would seem impractically. Oh 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:12.960 that's it. Maybe not impossible, but impractical, that's a better 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:14.600 way to say it. Because we talked about the pros 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:16.760 and cons of different types and how they work and 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:19.799 and the characteristics of each one, and what you would 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:22.320 have to do to pair two of them together. To 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:24.760 make them work in tandem. Yeah, what happens if you 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:26.440 cut the power to one and you forget to cut 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:28.280 the power to the other, and then next thing you know, 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:30.840 you're doing flips. Well, I have a feeling in it 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:32.880 wasn't quite as complex as we're making it out to be. 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:35.800 It's probably a lot simpler. But then in uh In, 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.280 just one year later, there was a drive belt design 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:41.600 that came around, which is, yeah, it is kind of 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:43.640 cool because that's different than what we're seeing today, which 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:45.920 you might think you're seeing that today, but you're seeing 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:49.520 probably a version of a moped really or something like that, 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:51.920 which we'll talk about the difference of that too. And 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:54.720 then in this is one that I really wanted to 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:57.640 talk about just for a second, there was a patent, 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:01.360 you know, pulled for a frick in roller wheel design, 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:03.320 which is really unusual, and this is one that we 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:07.520 haven't seen maybe ever on a bicycle recently. Can I 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:11.000 like a guess on what this is? Sure, because I 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:14.080 I haven't read the patent, so why would guesses? This 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:16.800 means that there would be an electric motor that would 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:20.880 turn a small wheel that is actually right up against 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:23.479 one of the primary wheels. In the bicycle, and the 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:27.239 rotation of the small wheel is translated into the rotation 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:29.960 of the larger wheel. That's exactly right. Now. It seems 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:32.839 very inefficient, isn't it to do it that way? It 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:35.400 was it was mounted, I guess, would be behind the 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:38.760 rider's seat above the wheel, and it would it would 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:41.279 the pressure was a downward force on the wheel, on 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:43.720 the surface of the wheel where it would contact the road, 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:47.120 and that translated to as you said, the you know, 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:49.880 the drive the actual drive wheel, which to me, that 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:53.719 would be not just inefficient because obviously the smaller wheel 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:55.960 is gonna have to rotate many, many, many more times 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:59.240 faster than the large wheel, right, but also it means 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:02.640 adding more aar and tear on that particular wheel of 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:05.159 your bike. You're exactly right, And it just seems like 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:07.400 it seems like a difficult design to make work. But 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:09.520 I just wanted to tell you that, you know, even 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:12.880 prior to nine, people are really thinking about this. They're really, 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:15.040 you know, considering the idea that an electric bike is 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:18.560 something that is necessary to get around town. And quite honestly, 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:20.479 you know, where did they have It's not like they 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:22.440 were in a crowd of city at that point, probably 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:25.560 it's not likely. Uh they might have been, but um 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:27.440 it would it would be more for you know, like 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:29.360 a country ride or something like that that they would 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:31.200 use it for, right, I would imagine. So, I mean, 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:35.680 unless you're talking about you know, your your when you 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:37.960 see the rise of the city's really because the rise 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:40.599 of the automobile. You see the rise of automobile, which 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:43.279 gave rise to two cities getting larger and larger and 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:47.960 more sprawl. Perhaps you could argue that the bike would 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:50.279 have been useful for someone who cannot afford a full 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:54.280 automobile but still needs to make a commute. But we 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:56.919 often here in the United States in particular, we have 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:01.560 often thought about bicycles as recreational devices. Right, this is 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:03.800 the thing that we use. You want to go out 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:06.120 and get some exercise, you want the fresh air, you 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:09.800 want a nice relaxing ride. And uh, in fact, when 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:12.880 we were first talking about doing this topic, it was 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:15.480 only when we started talking about the possibility of using 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:20.240 a bike in instead of a car or taking public 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:23.640 transportation in order to get around regularly. That's something like 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:26.040 an electric bike really started to make sense because otherwise 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:28.640 you kind of want that that exertion, that's part of 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:30.560 the experience. Let me let me just for one second 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:33.320 go back and kind of defend my my my country 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:37.120 ride example, because the lay that I I picture UM 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:38.960 cities right around the turn of the century, you know, 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:41.599 the turn of the nineteenth century, is that they were 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:44.760 they were crowded with cars which were relatively new at 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:47.839 the time, brand new at the time, UM, carriages, lots 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:51.240 of horses, lots of people walking. But I don't necessarily 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:53.840 think of seeing a lot of a lot of bicycles 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:56.560 in city environments. That's from from photos of that day, 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:59.680 of that era or depictions of it, you know, whether 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:01.280 it be wrongs or whatever. You don't see a lot 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:04.320 of bicycle riders. However, today in crowded cities, you do 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:06.680 see a lot of bicycle riders. I mean that's that 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:09.960 and especially in places like China where it's extremely crowded 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:13.000 and you know, maybe not everybody can afford a motorcycle, 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:16.960 right or or a big scooter um or definitely not 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:20.720 a car. Bicycle is a good option, but as you said, UM, 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:23.640 they're not necessarily in it for you know, exercise or 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:25.680 to get out and you know, to get the get 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:28.440 the heart pumping or whatever, especially in places where pollution 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:30.520 might be so bad that you don't necessarily want to 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:33.160 be breathing. R Now, this is just like an inexpensive 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:36.600 method of transportation, way to commute and uh and also 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:38.720 you know, to take up as little space as possible 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:41.200 when you're not using that thing, right, Yeah, So now 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:44.000 we're starting to see this grow in popularity here in 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:46.640 the United States, like I said, in some parts of 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:49.080 the world, and in parts of Europe. That's all. It's 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:51.600 been popular for years and in fact, electric bikes have 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:55.720 been around for quite some time in in both Europe 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:58.640 and the United States as well as Asia. But these 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:01.640 are uh, you know, we've seen a lot of development 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:04.800 over the last i'd say a couple of decades. We've 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:07.640 seen really some some interesting development to the point where 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:12.640 it's become uh, something that the average consumer can can 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:15.720 be aware of, as opposed to you know, the bike enthusiasts. 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.280 Part of that is battery technology. I mean, I don't 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:20.120 know if I'm jumping ahead of you here, but but 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:23.160 part of that is battery technology because lead acid batteries, 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:25.200 that's the kind of battery that you typically find in 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:27.600 an automobile, a typical one, not not one of the 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:31.320 newer ones. But um, they're big, they're heavy, they're bulky. 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:33.679 I mean, it's just it's difficult to carry that kind 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:35.880 of weight around on a bike. You're trying to remain 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:38.000 as light as possible with this type of setup, as 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:40.280 we'll talk about in a moment. But um, you know, 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:43.360 with some of the newer battery technology, like lithium ion 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:46.840 batteries or even you know, some of the nickel cadmium 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:50.040 batteries from you know, or nickel metal hydride batteries, or 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:52.040 or even the seal some of these, I guess, the 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:54.120 sealed lead acid batteries. Some of them are small enough 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:56.320 that couldn't you know, you could potentially use them. But 0:08:57.280 --> 0:08:59.840 the lead acid batteries tend to be a lot heavier 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:03.480 than the batteries. Yeah. The other thing that uh, you know, 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:06.920 those batteries have been a challenge, not just from a 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:10.960 science perspective, but also safety obviously lithium ion in particular. 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:13.360 You know, you don't you want to be really uh 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:16.400 you don't you don't want to overheat your lithium ion batteries. Well, 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:18.240 and it's not a great idea to also be biking 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:21.920 around with a box of sulfuric acid. Yeah, that's that's 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:23.559 what it is. Yeah, that's that can be a bit 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:25.240 of a that could be a bit of a drag 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:28.280 if things go wrong. But yeah, yeah, I mean, like 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:31.400 I think of here in here, in Atlanta, for example, 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:34.160 things can get pretty hot. So imagine that you have 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:36.640 a really hot day and you're taking your electric bike 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:39.080 for a ride, and you've got your battery or lithium 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:42.440 ion battery, and you're you know, you have to hit 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:45.600 dead Man's Hill, It's the craziest hill in Atlanta, which 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:49.160 I just made up, and uh you, so you kicked 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:51.520 the bike into full gear to try and help you 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:53.880 as much as it can to get up there. I 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:57.480 can imagine that lithium ion battery getting really kind of 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:02.079 deteriorating rapidly due to we're operating at such a high temperature. 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:04.600 The heat is the worst enemy of batteries. I mean, 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:07.080 I know that they die often in cold weather, but 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:09.600 heat is where the real damage occurs. And then you 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:12.760 don't realize it until it's cold and all those chemical 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.800 reactions are slowing down, and that's when you really feel 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:18.920 that you feel the pain from you know, the damage 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:21.360 that was done in the summer months. Now. Of course, 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:23.679 the nice thing is that most of the systems we're 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:25.800 talking about, in fact, all the ones I'm familiar with, 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:30.959 have replaceable batteries. So worst case scenario as you swap 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:34.400 out a dead battery for a new one, obviously you 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:36.760 want to preserve the life of your batteries as long 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:39.559 as possible for multiple reasons. Financial would be a big one, 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:42.680 but also just you know, it's more environmentally friendly to 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:45.160 go easy on your battery so that you don't have 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:47.000 to have I don't have to worry about, well, how 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:50.160 do I dispose of this thing now that potentially has 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:52.720 toxic materials in it. But let's be honest, the financial 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:54.400 reason is the big one. That's the big one. I mean, 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:57.240 it is the big one. I mean. Another thing we 0:10:57.240 --> 0:10:59.960 need to point out is electric bikes can be pretty expensive. 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.480 Even the conversion kits where you can turn your existing 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:06.720 bike into electric bike, some of those can be some 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:10.360 of those can dwarf the price of your original bike. Absolutely. 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:13.439 I've seen kids just conversion kits that that range anywhere 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:15.520 from you know, I think it was about seven seventy 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:18.839 five dollars up to two thousand dollars where you're not 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:21.640 getting an entire bike, you're getting the kit to make 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:24.760 your existing bike into an e bike. And and of 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.000 course the two thousand dollar kit comes with everything you 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:30.160 would ever want, all the sensors. The seven D and 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:32.800 seventy five dollar kit doesn't even have a battery with it, 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:35.040 and I think there's no controller. I mean, it's just 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:38.000 it's it's a very basic, basic kit where you're gonna 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:39.960 have to add parts to it in order to make 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:42.839 that even work. So it can be expensive, but maybe 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:44.839 maybe it's better just to buy a bike right from 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:48.040 the manufacturer. Yeah, yeah, there there are choices, right, I mean, 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:51.520 you can get a bike that is designed as an 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:54.480 electric bike from the beginning, and it's got the systems 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:57.600 all integrated into it already, so it's going to Those 0:11:57.640 --> 0:12:00.600 are gonna look the nicest. Obviously, they're to cost a lot. 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:03.040 You're gonna cost a lot if you convert a bike, then, 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:05.520 depending upon the conversion kit you have, if it's one 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:07.040 of those where it's a real D I O Y 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:10.679 kind of approach, it'll work, but it'll probably also look 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:13.320 kind of weird because the bike that you have was 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:15.480 not originally intended to be an electric bike. You had 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:17.560 to add all these different components on it. You have 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:20.520 to put a battery pack somewhere on that thing, and 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:24.920 sometimes that means that you have a big bulky section 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:26.920 of the middle of the bike. But there are other 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:30.199 types of electric bike converter kits as well that um 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:33.640 incorporate all the elements into the hub of either the 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:37.080 front wheel or the rear wheel. Those are kind of cool. Now, 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:39.880 it does mean that the hub of that tire is 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:43.840 going to look enormous compared to a normal bicycle tire. 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:46.439 But but all the other elements are hidden away, right. 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:50.040 You don't have, uh, you know, and there're only a 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:51.880 couple of examples of this, but you don't have like 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:54.440 a big external battery pack that's hanging off one of 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:58.120 the bars of your bicycle unless unless you go back 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:00.320 to one of those kids like we talked about. You 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:02.600 know that you do have a big canvas bag that 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:04.559 has a battery attached to it, and that's a speed 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:07.280 controller and all the other electronics to go along with this. 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:09.400 And you know, I mean that stuff is gonna be 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:11.360 zip tied to the frame of your bike. I mean, 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:13.120 it's not it's going to look like it's a kid 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:14.559 that you added onto your bike. It's not going to 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:18.000 be as as buttoned up as the as the bike 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:20.720 that would come from the manufacturer. Look because they you know, 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:22.440 they drill holes in the frame and they feed the 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:24.760 wire through there and it only exits where it needs to. 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:28.719 It's very uh, it's very minimally obtrusive, I guess on 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.000 the on the design of the bike. Yeah, as opposed 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:34.360 to have zip ties every couple of inches, everything in place, 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:36.720 and there's still kind of is that element of these 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:38.959 even even with the manufacturer built ones, you know, the 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:40.719 ones that come from the factory, you know where I 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:42.440 don't know how many they build a day, maybe, you know, 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:44.920 it depends on the place, I guess, but it would 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:46.439 I would think it's very few because these are hand 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:49.400 assembled of course. Um, but yeah, they're they're pretty well 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:52.360 buttoned up, but they still have a little bit of 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:54.920 that you know, uh, a little bit of that look 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:58.240 like it was kind of made it a workbench a 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:00.240 little bit, but in a good way, like of in 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.400 that that you know, again like that d I Y 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:05.800 sort of approach. And they're getting better and better. Yeah, 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:08.400 and so I guess it's good to talk about, you know, 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:11.000 the different types of electric bikes as well as to 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:16.000 compare them against other powered bicycles. So the powered bicycle 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:18.800 I always thought of when I was growing up, it 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:21.880 was not electric at all. It was it was gas powered. 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:26.800 The motorized bicycle, the moped moped. Yeah, so you've got 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:31.320 the motorized and pedal PD the moped or velociped. Some 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:34.800 people say that's from the old term for bicycle velocopied, 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:38.640 which dates to even earlier in the uh you know, 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:41.960 the the nineteenth century. Uh that was my favorite arcade 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:44.560 game philosophy. Yeah, where you had to, you know, to 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:48.080 shoot the little Penny Farthings as they came down the screen. Um. Yeah. 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:54.800 The the moped is similar in many ways to electric bicycles, 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:57.360 except of course it's not running on electricity. It's got 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:02.400 an actual motor engine and I should sea tiny gasoline engine. Yeah, yeah, 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:03.840 that's right. And that's what I tend to think of 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.600 two when I think of of a a pedal assisted 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:09.400 powered vehicle and I think of that, that's that's the 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:11.600 one I go to. Is like that old moped design 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:13.440 where you see you would see somebody pedaling like crazy 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.520 to either get it moving or more typically, you would 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:19.120 just see the pedals, you know, remaining where they are. 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:21.480 People would have their feet on the pedals, but it 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:24.200 would be all you know, gasoline power that they're using. 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:26.560 They're using just the engine to propel themselves forward. Yeah, 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:29.680 they've got a throttle control, and the throttle control provides 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:33.440 the power which drives the drive train and you don't 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:35.920 have to do any pedaling at all to keep it going. 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:38.960 It was very rare to see somebody actually pedaling a 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:42.640 moped to the point now where the term moped, by 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:45.440 at least some people is used as a generic term 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:50.520 for any non motorcycle motorized two wheel vehicle. Okay, this 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:52.520 is where we had a little discussion about this at 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:54.440 our desks earlier, because we sitting next to each other 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:56.320 in the office and we were kind of throwing this 0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:58.320 back and forth a little bit like, Okay, if if 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.160 this is a moped, what what is a scooter? And 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:03.720 then how do you differentiate between that and a motorcycle? 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:06.240 And you know, there's there's traditional ways to do that 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:08.720 by engine size. You can you can say that you know, 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:11.800 a moped is between forty nine ccs and all the 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.400 way up to ccs. But now I think that there's 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:17.000 some what they call, I want to say, they're called 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:19.920 like maxi scooters that are bigger than that. They're capable 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:22.640 of going faster, but they're still considered a scooter. But 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:25.680 they're allowed on roads but not on highways. And you 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:27.560 do sit with your feet forward, you know, on a 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:29.560 platform in front of the chair, so there's like a 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:32.840 pass through between the handlebars and where you sit. You're 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:34.800 not on you don't have your feet on pedals in 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:37.720 or pegs as you would on a motorcycle. It's on 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:39.640 like a little just its own little platform. But some 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.240 of those maxi scooters are capable of you know, eighty 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:45.920 miles per hour, seventy five miles per or something like that. Um, 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:47.840 that's not the typical scooter that I think of. I 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:50.240 think of the old vespas, you know, which we're you know, 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:52.720 the older ones, which are creeping along at about thirty 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:55.520 miles per hour max. But they did have that traditional 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:57.640 seating position where you can you can picture that right 0:16:57.680 --> 0:16:59.800 with the platform in front, where your your feet are 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:02.280 side by side in front of you, And that's what 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:05.280 I think of. They didn't have a pedal mechanism at 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:07.159 all like a moped does. So that to me was 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:11.840 the break between scooters and mopeds. But now I guess 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:14.480 there's a blurred line between what's a moped and what's 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:16.960 a scooter. Yeah, I think it's just. I think it's 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:19.960 just in the use of the term being very casual 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:22.159 about it, right, I don't think it's I think if 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:24.840 you were to nail someone down and say no, let's 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:28.439 let's get to the technical uh distinction between these, they 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:32.879 would agree. But I think casually people refer to practically 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:35.880 anything that doesn't look like a motorcycle as a moped 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:38.080 or a scooter, one or the other, And honestly, it 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:40.680 really doesn't matter. We're just trying to to segment these 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:43.440 different things into and just find a way to discuss 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:46.119 them where everybody can picture the same thing. Now. The 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:49.320 interesting thing also about mopeds to me is that some 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:52.040 of them are designed so that, yeah, you could pedal 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:54.600 and propel them just under pedal power if you needed to, 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:58.080 like if the engine died or ran all gas. Uh, 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:01.520 It's not easy to do. This is a very heavy vehicle. 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:04.760 Sometimes it looks like you're peddaling like crazy and you're 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:07.320 not really getting anywhere some of them. Really, the pedals 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:10.879 were more about getting the engine started right, so it 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:13.679 wasn't about providing any form of propulsion. It was just 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:16.200 about getting the engine to the point where you could 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:21.320 get the ignition going and take off. So uh, that 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:25.200 kind of separates it from electric electric bikes in another way. 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:28.200 So you've got two big separations. One you're not using 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:31.040 gas with electric bikes. But the other is that with 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:34.359 a true E bike, you are supposed to be able 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:39.280 to pedal and power the bike, or you use some 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:42.880 form of pedal assists. That's where you get the ped 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:47.240 alex type of bikes, So that's that's often what they're called, 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:50.560 where they are providing some of the power to turn 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:54.679 the wheel of the bicycle so that it offsets some 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:57.480 of the force needed. And then you have power on 0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:02.880 demand electric bicycles where the electric motor is providing all 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:05.520 the power you need to propel the bike forward, and 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:08.160 you can you can cut the motor off and then 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:11.879 continue to pedal, or if you just want to have 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:13.919 a real easy ride of it, you just power the 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:17.560 throttle and that gives the electric motor the power to 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:20.800 push the bike forward. On, so it's you're using it 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:23.640 as if it was a scooter, not a bicycle at all. 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:26.080 For the power on demand systems, okay, and the pedal 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:27.680 X when you mentioned that, I think people might be 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.560 confused by the term, But that's a combination of three words. 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:34.200