Speaker 1: Good morning, peepson, Welcome to woke f Daily. Would meet
Speaker 1: your girl Danielle Moody recording from the Home Bunker, Folks,
Speaker 1: I'm really excited to welcome back to wok Appa Daily
Speaker 1: our friend and our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel,
Speaker 1: the author of Dying of Whiteness. And today Jonathan and
Speaker 1: I get into yet another conversation about the lack of
Speaker 1: gun reform in this country. But it's predicated on an
Speaker 1: awful fucking video that is going around on TikTok that
Speaker 1: I've seen reposted on Joey Read from MSNBC's Instagram page.
Speaker 1: Viola Davis, actress, reposted on her page, and it is
Speaker 1: if you haven't seen this video, because I by the
Speaker 1: time that this recording come out, I will have done
Speaker 1: a TikTok of my own. It is a video of
Speaker 1: an Alabama school district that has rolled out a new product,
Speaker 1: which is a whiteboard that pulls out into a bulletproof
Speaker 1: shelter safe room for your kids in the classroom. It
Speaker 1: is the most obscene fucking thing that I have seen ever.
Speaker 1: And the reason why it's going viral is because people
Speaker 1: in this country and other countries are like, Wow, classrooms
Speaker 1: are supposed to be safe spaces. Schools are supposed to
Speaker 1: be safe fucking spaces. The fact that Americans would rather
Speaker 1: build safe rooms and monetize bullet proof backpacks so monetize
Speaker 1: childhood trauma instead of voting for politicians that care more
Speaker 1: about our fucking children and our nation's safety than they
Speaker 1: do their fucking donor base is absurd. But you know,
Speaker 1: let's hand it to Americans to be able to fucking
Speaker 1: monetize every goddamn thing, including your children's trauma. You know,
Speaker 1: we are now living with the first generation of active
Speaker 1: shooter drill children who are now Gen z's, graduating from college,
Speaker 1: entering into the workforce. They've been doing active shooter drill
Speaker 1: since they were three fucking years old. We have created
Speaker 1: an entire generation of traumatized, depressed, and anxiety riddled children
Speaker 1: that how are now adults who have never known safety ever.
Speaker 1: Think about that. Think about your own childhood. Think about
Speaker 1: the fears that you might have had, the normal fears,
Speaker 1: right the boogeyman, you know, maybe the bully at school,
Speaker 1: maybe standing up and giving your presentation. But nobody from
Speaker 1: the boomers to the gen xers to most of the
Speaker 1: millennials ever had to fear getting shot dead in their classroom,
Speaker 1: getting shot dead at their place of worship, getting shot
Speaker 1: dead at the mall. But this is what we are
Speaker 1: doing now. We're creating bulletproof whiteboard safe rooms inside of
Speaker 1: classrooms instead of passing gun reform. What in the entire fuck?
Speaker 1: So coming up next, friends, my conversation with our in
Speaker 1: house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, who has a new book
Speaker 1: that will be coming out next year, folks, on this
Speaker 1: very issue, folks. I can't tell you how excited I
Speaker 1: am to welcome back to woke F Daily doctor Jonathan Metzel,
Speaker 1: our friend and the author of Dying of Whiteness, who
Speaker 1: is working on a new book that I can't wait
Speaker 1: to read and discuss here on Woke f when it
Speaker 1: comes out. Jonathan, it's been a while, and sadly, in
Speaker 1: the time that we have not been together, there have
Speaker 1: been so many mass shootings, more mass shootings that have
Speaker 1: happened than days in the year thus far. This week,
Speaker 1: President Biden went to Moderate, California, the site of the
Speaker 1: shooting that was targeted at the Asian American community during
Speaker 1: the Lunar New Year celebration. There, he spoke about you
Speaker 1: know how many times he has done this, the fact
Speaker 1: that we need sensible gun reform. It's the same conversation
Speaker 1: that unfortunately he has had as Vice president and now
Speaker 1: as president of the United States. And so I just
Speaker 1: want to get initially your reactions to his speech and
Speaker 1: where we find ourselves right now in twenty twenty three. Well,
Speaker 1: I appreciate that President Biden did something. I think it's
Speaker 1: symbolically important. I think where he did it is important,
Speaker 1: and I think that it's also important that he signals
Speaker 1: that he's not going to let this issue diet, that
Speaker 1: he's going to keep at it. But I would also,
Speaker 1: of course admit a frustration because but democratic presidents can
Speaker 1: do are largely symbolic executive orders that can easily be
Speaker 1: overturned if a Republican takes over. That's what we saw
Speaker 1: with President Obama after his frustration that nothing really got
Speaker 1: passed after Sandy Hook and all the all the uproar
Speaker 1: after that, tried to work with people, tried to work
Speaker 1: with people, and then ultimately passed a bunch of really
Speaker 1: I think, really good executive orders keeping guns away from
Speaker 1: people with serious amounts of illness or convictions. Another thing
Speaker 1: President Obama did was invest in smart gun technology to
Speaker 1: guns that could only be fired by recognizing the palm
Speaker 1: print of somebody who owned them, which I think would
Speaker 1: be great. But the minute Trump took over, he just
Speaker 1: overturned all that stuff, and so really there's a kind
Speaker 1: of back and forth nature of it. And of course
Speaker 1: the other part is that a lot of things that
Speaker 1: are signed by executive order really aren't implemented that much
Speaker 1: in states that have really strong gun lobbies. So California,
Speaker 1: we're you know, California's already doing a lot of the
Speaker 1: things that President Biden had suggested, enhanced background checks, other
Speaker 1: kinds of factors, but it's limited because it's surrounded by
Speaker 1: states like Arizona where there are hardly any gun laws,
Speaker 1: and so it really can't stop the flow of guns
Speaker 1: into its borders. And so again, I think this is
Speaker 1: an ongoing struggle, obviously a polarizing struggle struggle, but I
Speaker 1: just to be honest, as somebody who's studied this for
Speaker 1: a long time, I think it's important to keep going.
Speaker 1: But of course there's always frustration that we just keep
Speaker 1: going back and forth about the same issues of background
Speaker 1: checks and red flag laws, when really what we're talking
Speaker 1: about is a much bigger issue about polarization and public
Speaker 1: safety and race and guns in America. You know, Jonathan,
Speaker 1: what I find so troubling about where we are right now,
Speaker 1: and I feel like, you know, for the past I
Speaker 1: don't even know, it's been three years now since you
Speaker 1: and I have been in deep conversation about so many
Speaker 1: issues that are affecting Americans every single day. But when
Speaker 1: I see President Biden, you know, once again, do exactly
Speaker 1: what she said. You know, he provides a moral barometer, right,
Speaker 1: he gives a speech, he is empathetic, and he does
Speaker 1: what any responsible president of this country would do. But
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, we know that that
Speaker 1: community and Moniti. Since that shooting actually happened, there have
Speaker 1: been I think roughly sixty plus shootings that have happened,
Speaker 1: right because we know that mass shootings are identified as
Speaker 1: four people shot or more at a time. So since then,
Speaker 1: you know, there have been countless and not everybody gets
Speaker 1: a headline, and not everybody gets the met the attention
Speaker 1: unless it's gruesome, unless the ages of the victims are young,
Speaker 1: unless it's a marginalized community that was targeted. You know,
Speaker 1: this is Republicans problem. This is the problem of Republicans
Speaker 1: solely right. That if we had the will of the
Speaker 1: Republican Party to recognize that young children shouldn't have to
Speaker 1: learn how to army crawl and begin active shooter drills
Speaker 1: at three years old in this country, that that shouldn't
Speaker 1: be a norm of what it means to grow up
Speaker 1: in America, we wouldn't be here. So explain to me
Speaker 1: and just your thoughts on where parents and caregivers are
Speaker 1: in this country, because this to me, Jonathan, Yes, I
Speaker 1: understand the gun manufacturers make money. I understand the gun
Speaker 1: lobby is a billion dollar industry, and I understand that Republicans,
Speaker 1: you know, have written their souls off in blood in
Speaker 1: order for donors right from the NRA. But this has
Speaker 1: got to be beyond four parents and caregivers, beyond a
Speaker 1: partisan issue. Unfortunately, it is a superpartisan issue. It's an
Speaker 1: identity issue for a lot of people, and so of
Speaker 1: course I definitely, definitely, definitely agree with you. I wish
Speaker 1: that we could come together to make school safe, and
Speaker 1: workplace is safe, and shopping mall safe and every place
Speaker 1: else that has been targeted by this horrible violence. But
Speaker 1: I think that the split really is how people respond
Speaker 1: to it. I mean, I've been doing this kind of
Speaker 1: work for a long time, and I think that the
Speaker 1: false dichotomy that we get into is like Democrats want
Speaker 1: gun safety and Republicans wants shootings, Like nobody really, when
Speaker 1: it comes down to it, really wants shootings. Are we sure?
Speaker 1: Because when you have I mean, honestly, I think about
Speaker 1: this because when you have, right, I saw another headline
Speaker 1: this week which was that a four year old got
Speaker 1: a hand of a gun in Texas that was not
Speaker 1: locked up and shot and killed their three year old sibling. Right,
Speaker 1: That's a normal headline in places that have loosened or
Speaker 1: completely erased any type of gun safety. Right. But I
Speaker 1: guess the let me let me just what I mean.
Speaker 1: I mean that Republicans are so programmed to think that
Speaker 1: more guns is the answer to every one of these provocations.
Speaker 1: So it's not like they're pro shooting. I think that's
Speaker 1: a I think that's a misnomber that the Democrats get into.
Speaker 1: But I will say that there's no provocation to which
Speaker 1: the answer for many GOP voters and RA supporters isn't
Speaker 1: isn't more guns? And so when they hear that there's
Speaker 1: a mass shooting, the automatic responses, man, I wish I
Speaker 1: would have had a weapon at that time. I would
Speaker 1: have stopped this. And when they hear that there's any
Speaker 1: kind of robbery or crime or anything like that, all
Speaker 1: the stuff that the GOP amplifies, the answer isn't let's
Speaker 1: make communities safer for everyone. It's I wish I wish
Speaker 1: I had my gun that moment. So that's kind of
Speaker 1: the ingrained logic, which of course is tied into logic
Speaker 1: that is as old as this country that is very racialized,
Speaker 1: that white Americans get to carry guns, that white that
Speaker 1: guns are, you know, symbols of white protection. So there's
Speaker 1: a whole history here going into it, and the question
Speaker 1: is what do you what do you do about that?
Speaker 1: Are you trying to reason with centrist gun owners? Are
Speaker 1: you trying to just create laws that force them to
Speaker 1: go along? Are you trying to fortify blue states? I
Speaker 1: just think that the minute you start thinking like, what
Speaker 1: really is the answer to what we're facing right now,
Speaker 1: it's it's a bigger issue than it seems, even with
Speaker 1: all these mess shootings. And I'm not trying to sound
Speaker 1: like I'm talking around in circles. But as you can
Speaker 1: hear from the way I'm talking about this, I've been
Speaker 1: writing a book about this exact issue for the last
Speaker 1: ten years now, and the diagnosis for me is very easy.
Speaker 1: But the question of where we go in this country
Speaker 1: is really complicated. Let me give you an example. One
Speaker 1: of the main things we suggest as Democrats, right is
Speaker 1: background checks. Right initially, we say background checks on all
Speaker 1: gun purchases. That's one of the things that Biden just did. Well.
Speaker 1: I agree we need background checks on all gun purchases.
Speaker 1: They're way too many loopholes, but we already have four
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty million guns in this country roughly, and
Speaker 1: that's almost one hundred million more guns that we have people.
Speaker 1: And so even if you implemented background checks right now
Speaker 1: on every single gun purchase, which isn't going to happen,
Speaker 1: you still have more guns than people. And so it
Speaker 1: would take you three hundred years probably to get to
Speaker 1: even that out in a way. And so the suggestions
Speaker 1: that were I just feel like the suggestions that we're
Speaker 1: positing honestly as Democrats, are way they under estimate the problem,
Speaker 1: or do they under they're not answers to the problem
Speaker 1: we're facing so right now we have watched it's mark
Speaker 1: and there are over three hundred pieces of legislation that
Speaker 1: have been rolled out to restrict drag performances or ban them,
Speaker 1: to deny trans kids gender affirming care, to ban books,
Speaker 1: to do all of these radical fascist ideas and bring
Speaker 1: them into fruition in red states across this country, you know.
Speaker 1: And their hope is that in twenty twenty four they'll
Speaker 1: be able to nationalize their chrystal fascist beliefs. When I
Speaker 1: look at how rapidly they're moving to target the LGBTQ community,
Speaker 1: to target the Black community, to target the Jewish community,
Speaker 1: there seems to be no guardrails on how quickly legislation
Speaker 1: can get passed and be operationalized. The same thing has
Speaker 1: happened with abortion. So we look to the president to
Speaker 1: guide us right, and for so long we were taught
Speaker 1: that the president is the most powerful person in all
Speaker 1: the land. But it turns out that Ron De Santis
Speaker 1: actually is. It turns out that Greg Abbott actually is.
Speaker 1: It turns out that Sarah Huckaby Sanders actually is. These
Speaker 1: are governors in right states. So again, when I think
Speaker 1: about the core of the problem, it isn't just an
Speaker 1: ideological one, Jonathan, or or values based one or lack thereof.
Speaker 1: It's also the fact that Democrats have put all of
Speaker 1: their eggs in the executive branch and none at the
Speaker 1: state level. Can you speak to that, no, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's my frustration. That's kind of the core argument of
Speaker 1: my book is that. And let me just be clear,
Speaker 1: part of what I'm showing is that guns are a
Speaker 1: core aspect of the ideology and the movement that you've
Speaker 1: just talked about. So it's no mistake that, for examples,
Speaker 1: to Santist right now is overturning Florida's gun laws, right
Speaker 1: Texas gun laws. Loose gun laws have propelled people like
Speaker 1: Abbot to power. In Tennessee right now, they are overturning
Speaker 1: every single gun law in Tennessee. We they just passed
Speaker 1: a bill or are about too that anyone eighteen year
Speaker 1: old and over can open kerry in public, an AK
Speaker 1: forty seven or an AAR fifteen with no training, no
Speaker 1: permit whatsoever. And so, in a way, guns are a
Speaker 1: massive aspect of this issue. And I feel like it's
Speaker 1: not just about executive I feel like for too long
Speaker 1: Democrats have kind of told themselves, well, bad gun policies
Speaker 1: are just a red state problem. They're just something happening
Speaker 1: down there. But here in New York we have, you know,
Speaker 1: tight gun laws, so we have much more public health.
Speaker 1: And I think that was part of the lie that
Speaker 1: Democrats told themselves, is that the country wasn't connected, that
Speaker 1: the aims of this movement, which is symbolized by loose
Speaker 1: gun laws and more public carried guns, was just going
Speaker 1: to stay in the South, when when we're seeing with
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, for example, right now, or with the
Speaker 1: judge in Texas right now overturning MIFFI pristone is that
Speaker 1: this movement really has national implications and national designs. And
Speaker 1: so I think we've woken up too late to the
Speaker 1: fact that red state politicians, pro gun politicians were building
Speaker 1: really an orc army in a certain kind of way,
Speaker 1: like a kind of red state movement that really the
Speaker 1: aim wasn't just to have bad gun policy in Tennessee,
Speaker 1: it was to take over the country in the Supreme Court,
Speaker 1: and so I certainly think that a much more ambitious
Speaker 1: national response that starts with taking grassroots movements the way
Speaker 1: I mean the Republicans de Santa started by taking over
Speaker 1: the school boards and public health boards. Look what's happening
Speaker 1: in Tennessee right now with city commissions and so playing
Speaker 1: the game of investing in local politics is where the
Speaker 1: Democrats have to start completely agree. You know, here's the thing, Jonathan,
Speaker 1: and you know, I hate to be Debbie Downer, right,
Speaker 1: this is a Downer conversation, right, which is that we're losing, yeah, right,
Speaker 1: like I mean. And not only are we losing in
Speaker 1: terms of policy, we're losing in the courts, We're losing
Speaker 1: in the states. We're losing everywhere. And I posted this,
Speaker 1: I joked on Mary Trump Show the other day. I
Speaker 1: posted this very scientific poll on Twitter, and I asked
Speaker 1: folks if they thought that they were going to see
Speaker 1: the end of democracy in their lifetimes. And I'm assuming
Speaker 1: that people are my age or older. And when the
Speaker 1: poll came back after you know, twenty four hours, the
Speaker 1: majority of people said yes, that they believed that democracy
Speaker 1: will be done in their lifetime. And I'm not talking
Speaker 1: about twenty thirty years from now. I'm actually talking about
Speaker 1: you know, two, five, maybe ten at most. Tell me something,
Speaker 1: is there a going backwards here to sense, to logic,
Speaker 1: to shared values in morals and if there's not, then
Speaker 1: what the fuck are we all doing? Do you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like in all honesty, because I people
Speaker 1: ask me all the time, like we're losing. I need
Speaker 1: to move right, You're telling me it doesn't really matter
Speaker 1: if you move from Florida to New York, or Texas
Speaker 1: to Washington, or you know, or Alabama to Oregon. It
Speaker 1: doesn't fucking matter. You're not safe anywhere. So at this stage,
Speaker 1: I'm just like, so, what the fuck are we all doing?
Speaker 1: This is not sour grapes. Okay, it's a little sour grapes.
Speaker 1: But the initial title of my book, which was rejected
Speaker 1: by my publisher was how We Lost a Requiem for
Speaker 1: Liberal America. That was my working title, and they said,
Speaker 1: nobody's going to buy a book about losing, and we're
Speaker 1: not losing anyway. All the publishers, of course, are in
Speaker 1: New York. They don't see what I see in Tennessee.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, we're actually losing. So I actually
Speaker 1: showed them one of your tweets and I'm like, look,
Speaker 1: we're losing. People agree we're losing, but they don't. But
Speaker 1: I think that we need to figure out like why
Speaker 1: we lost, Like as I completely agree with you, And
Speaker 1: the answer that I give about why we lost is
Speaker 1: that this stuff that's happening in the country right now
Speaker 1: that people in New York and Los Angeles and Honolulu
Speaker 1: and other Democratic strongholds that are urban cities largely seats
Speaker 1: of power, it's been happening in the South for a
Speaker 1: long time. And I think that really what we needed
Speaker 1: was a Southern strategy to say, hey, look, the whole
Speaker 1: country's connected, and we're going to aggressively intervene into the
Speaker 1: South and really try to change the issue in the South.
Speaker 1: What we did was we let a Republican power base
Speaker 1: grow in the South in a way that then is
Speaker 1: taking over the country. And so my answer for that
Speaker 1: is we need to learn from first of all, from
Speaker 1: the lessons of the past, Like what would it have
Speaker 1: taken to win in my home state of Missouri when
Speaker 1: the NRA took over the state, really or in Tennessee
Speaker 1: when they rejected the affordable character to fight back against
Speaker 1: that would be to fight on the ground of racial politics,
Speaker 1: to fight on the ground of learning for local elections,
Speaker 1: to instill science and common sense and other factors. But
Speaker 1: we didn't do that. We kind of let the South go.
Speaker 1: We didn't have a kind of reverse Southern strategy. And
Speaker 1: so I think that's what we're that's what we're seeing
Speaker 1: right now where that's that's my read on it. And
Speaker 1: so the question of our people going to wake up
Speaker 1: right now, I guess I would just ask you, like,
Speaker 1: which people are going to wake up right because people
Speaker 1: in half the country have already been living under the
Speaker 1: regime that you're talking about for quite some time, and
Speaker 1: it's led to more power for this agenda, not less
Speaker 1: power for it. I mean, I guess my feeling is that,
Speaker 1: by the way, would you would you buy a book
Speaker 1: called How We Lost or Recoring for Liberal America because
Speaker 1: you're my friends? Yeah, Okay, fine, Okay, I like the
Speaker 1: new working title that you have that you don't want
Speaker 1: to use. Okay, Okay, that's what I like. Okay, But
Speaker 1: I think that we're at a time where we got
Speaker 1: an actual war that is being waged through mass shootings
Speaker 1: and lack of gun reform, and not even lack of
Speaker 1: gun reform. Republicans aren't even in the lack of gun
Speaker 1: reform type of place they're in the everyone gets a
Speaker 1: gun as soon as you come out of the womb
Speaker 1: type of place, right like, this is a hellscape. And
Speaker 1: I see this getting drastically worse over the next two, five, ten,
Speaker 1: twenty thirty years. I think that the first half of
Speaker 1: my life, where things seem like they were going in
Speaker 1: the right direction, every generation was afforded something better than
Speaker 1: previous generations. That that's dead and gone. And I think
Speaker 1: that a lot of Americans, more so than not, are
Speaker 1: conscious right to that, which is why there's a war
Speaker 1: on wokeness. They don't even know how to fucking define it, frankly,
Speaker 1: but there's a war on wokeness because they prefer people
Speaker 1: to be asleep and scared. So I guess the last
Speaker 1: question for you is you know you've spent your entire
Speaker 1: career trying to diagnose this problem. To me, your book
Speaker 1: Dying of Whiteness did diagnose the problem. It's whiteness, it's
Speaker 1: white supremacy, it's Christo fascism, it's you know, the belief
Speaker 1: that so long if I'm doing bad is fine, so
Speaker 1: long as the person down the street that's of color
Speaker 1: is doing worse, then that's great, right, And the fact
Speaker 1: that you can monetize that you can sell that you
Speaker 1: can keep, you know, recreating these characters, these minions to
Speaker 1: sell this bullshit. And I'm just wondering, like, do you
Speaker 1: see hope in our future? Or do you just see
Speaker 1: an increase in violence? How much time do I have
Speaker 1: to answer that question, I mean, take all the time
Speaker 1: you'd like, do I see hope? Well, let me ask
Speaker 1: you really quickly, rights that, do you see hope in
Speaker 1: our future? I am you know, some days, some days
Speaker 1: I see hope in the future. I see that there
Speaker 1: are more people that are conscious to inequity, to injustice,
Speaker 1: to the lies of capitalism, to the indoctrination of patriotism.
Speaker 1: I see hope in that. But do I think that
Speaker 1: I'm going to see change in my lifetime? No? Do
Speaker 1: I think I'll see things get worse in my lifetime. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we have a pretty big election coming up in a
Speaker 1: little over a year here, year and a half here.
Speaker 1: Um so, so I think despair is not helpful right now.
Speaker 1: I certainly think that getting getting involved because I do
Speaker 1: think I mean, we felt like this in the twenty election,
Speaker 1: but oh my god, the stakes of the twenty twenty
Speaker 1: four election are in many ways even greater because of
Speaker 1: all this stuff that's happened since the Biden's election, and
Speaker 1: so I think mobilizing, I mean, we basically have an
Speaker 1: electoral fight for the future of our country coming up,
Speaker 1: and maybe maybe we can talk about this next time,
Speaker 1: like how do we how do we how do we
Speaker 1: flip the things we're talking about into democratic strategy, which
Speaker 1: I think is going to be the hard part. And
Speaker 1: I do think the Democrats are really facing a really
Speaker 1: hard question about really rerunning Biden, who's really old, or
Speaker 1: or opening up. I mean that should have happened a
Speaker 1: while ago. It looks like Biden's going to run again.
Speaker 1: But I do think that mobilizing, mobilizing Democratic voters right
Speaker 1: now for these issues. In other words, there's there's a
Speaker 1: place we can go with this frustration right now which
Speaker 1: is actually tied to electoral politics, which may not be
Speaker 1: the case in twenty twenty five, but it's the case
Speaker 1: right now in twenty twenty three. And so I do
Speaker 1: have hope that we will mobilize, that people will recognize
Speaker 1: the stakes. I have just a shy ton of concern
Speaker 1: about if Biden's going to be able to pull it off. Honestly,
Speaker 1: right now, I hope he can. He's surprised me at
Speaker 1: every level. But yes, he has, and I want people
Speaker 1: to remember that that he has been. He has been,
Speaker 1: and I've done it, you know, I did it on
Speaker 1: this show multiple multiple, multiple times. I underestimated Joe Biden.
Speaker 1: We continue to underestimate Joe Biden and he continues to
Speaker 1: opp form. So, yes, is his age a thing, Sure
Speaker 1: it is. But do I think that he was the
Speaker 1: man for the job in twenty twenty after I said
Speaker 1: that he wasn't even on my fucking lift, Yes, I do. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: And and honestly, if it's him, but I just think
Speaker 1: that I think it's people that cannot be complacent and
Speaker 1: think that the twenty four election is just going to
Speaker 1: be a relitigation of the twenty twenty election. There's so
Speaker 1: many factors that are so exponentially different right now. In
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, there was no stop to Steal movement. In
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, Trump had just gotten on stage with COVID,
Speaker 1: sweating profusely and shown embodied his mismanagement of the pandemic.
Speaker 1: So there's so many factors that are going to be
Speaker 1: different right now. It's a totally different campaign, and I
Speaker 1: just think people need to realize that even though Biden
Speaker 1: won in twenty twenty, the fight in twenty twenty four
Speaker 1: is even more high stakes in a way, but also
Speaker 1: a different fight. And so I think that there's a
Speaker 1: place to go with this despair right now, and I
Speaker 1: think questions of how to fight back, which is why
Speaker 1: this show is sitting on a gold mine, as they
Speaker 1: say on MSNBC advertisements, fighting back against this ludicrous anti
Speaker 1: woke agenda where anything that happens you just call it woke.
Speaker 1: But I think there are some strategies that are that
Speaker 1: need to be formulated now because I think right now
Speaker 1: there's an avenue to go with despair, which is not
Speaker 1: going to be an option if we don't win. Yeah,
Speaker 1: doctor Jonathan Matzel, it is a pleasure to be back
Speaker 1: in conversation with you. Friend. We will talk next week
Speaker 1: and you know, see where we land. Then appreciate you.
Speaker 1: That is it for me today, dear friends on Woke
Speaker 1: A f as always power to the people and to
Speaker 1: all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.