1 00:00:00,290 --> 00:00:03,530 Speaker 1: At ADP, we understand the importance of building the right 2 00:00:03,590 --> 00:00:07,170 Speaker 1: team and offer the data insights to help. Just as importantly, 3 00:00:07,190 --> 00:00:11,380 Speaker 1: our AI technology helps you pay the team accurately. Grow 4 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:14,860 Speaker 1: stronger with ADP. HR talent, time and payroll. 5 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 2: Hey, what's up? 6 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,500 Speaker 3: It's your man, Carlos Miller of the 85 South Show. 7 00:00:20,540 --> 00:00:21,260 Speaker 2: Do me a favor. 8 00:00:21,340 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 3: Make sure you check out the Black Market, hosted by me, 9 00:00:24,620 --> 00:00:27,980 Speaker 3: only on the 85 South Show feed. Subscribe to the 10 00:00:27,980 --> 00:00:30,370 Speaker 3: 85 South Show to hear and tune in to the 11 00:00:30,430 --> 00:00:35,169 Speaker 3: Black Market. Hear amazing interviews with entrepreneurs, creatives, and thought leaders, 12 00:00:35,550 --> 00:00:38,510 Speaker 3: people who are doing amazing things in the Black community. 13 00:00:39,270 --> 00:00:43,309 Speaker 3: Listen to the Black Market on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 14 00:00:43,590 --> 00:00:45,470 Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to podcasts. 15 00:00:49,390 --> 00:00:52,449 Speaker 4: Look through your children's eyes and you will discover the 16 00:00:52,530 --> 00:00:54,270 Speaker 4: true magic of a forest. 17 00:00:55,010 --> 00:00:59,410 Speaker 5: Find a forest near you and start exploring at discovertheforest.org. 18 00:00:59,650 --> 00:01:01,930 Speaker 5: Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and 19 00:01:01,970 --> 00:01:02,730 Speaker 5: the Ad Council. 20 00:01:08,140 --> 00:01:10,539 Speaker 6: Welcome to Money Making Conversations. It's the show that shares 21 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 6: the secrets of success experienced firsthand by marketing and branding 22 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:14,699 Speaker 6: expert Rashawn McDonald. 23 00:01:15,060 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 7: I will know. 24 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 6: He's given me advice on many occasions in case you 25 00:01:17,980 --> 00:01:23,060 Speaker 6: didn't notice. I'm not broke. You know he'll be interviewing celebrities, CEOs, entrepreneurs, 26 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 6: and industry decision makers. It's what he likes to do. 27 00:01:25,900 --> 00:01:28,199 Speaker 6: It's what he likes to share. Now it's time to 28 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,729 Speaker 6: hear from my man, Rashawn McDonald. Money Making Conversations. 29 00:01:32,110 --> 00:01:32,550 Speaker 8: Here we go. 30 00:01:33,290 --> 00:01:36,610 Speaker 9: Welcome to Money Making Conversations. I am your host, Rashawn McDonald. 31 00:01:36,990 --> 00:01:39,010 Speaker 9: I tell people every week as we start this show, 32 00:01:39,069 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 9: it's time to stop reading other people's success stories and 33 00:01:41,620 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 9: actually start writing your own. 34 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,709 Speaker 7: A lot of people are held back. I always tell people, 35 00:01:45,730 --> 00:01:47,490 Speaker 7: you're here by gifts. You're here by passion. 36 00:01:47,570 --> 00:01:49,590 Speaker 9: I tell people to lead with their gifts and don't 37 00:01:49,630 --> 00:01:53,550 Speaker 9: let their age, especially their age, friends, family, or coworkers 38 00:01:53,570 --> 00:01:56,150 Speaker 9: stop you from planning or living your dream. My interviews, 39 00:01:56,190 --> 00:02:00,510 Speaker 9: I bring on money-making conversations you might see with celebrities, CEOs, entrepreneurs, 40 00:02:00,550 --> 00:02:03,500 Speaker 9: and what I like to call industry decision makers. My 41 00:02:03,530 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 9: next guest is Craig Melvin. He's the co-host of the 42 00:02:06,580 --> 00:02:09,380 Speaker 9: Today Show and the author of the book, Pops, Learning 43 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:10,940 Speaker 9: to Be a Son and a Father. 44 00:02:11,370 --> 00:02:12,070 Speaker 7: You may know Craig. 45 00:02:12,090 --> 00:02:14,350 Speaker 9: He's an award-winning news anchor, as I said earlier on 46 00:02:14,389 --> 00:02:17,169 Speaker 9: the Today Show. You also have seen him on MSNBC 47 00:02:17,210 --> 00:02:19,769 Speaker 9: Live and the host of Dateline. He's on the show 48 00:02:19,790 --> 00:02:22,010 Speaker 9: to discuss his book, Pops, Learning to Be a Son 49 00:02:22,070 --> 00:02:24,260 Speaker 9: and a Father. It's the story of all the father 50 00:02:24,300 --> 00:02:27,540 Speaker 9: figures in Craig's life, and that includes inspiring men from 51 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,500 Speaker 9: his program or his series called Dad's Got This Series 52 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,700 Speaker 9: on NBC News Today. These experiences and encounters have shaped 53 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 9: Craig's understanding of his own role as a dad. 54 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 7: And I'm sure I can be related. 55 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,739 Speaker 9: We'll have a nice conversation in since Father's Day has 56 00:02:41,860 --> 00:02:42,700 Speaker 9: recently passed. 57 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:44,060 Speaker 7: He has two young children. 58 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,930 Speaker 9: Please welcome to Money Making Conversation, my man, Craig Milven. 59 00:02:47,970 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 7: How you doing, Craig? 60 00:02:49,030 --> 00:02:50,770 Speaker 2: Well, Sean, I'm well. I'm well. 61 00:02:50,850 --> 00:02:54,450 Speaker 10: Thank you so much for having me. I always enjoy 62 00:02:54,470 --> 00:02:56,570 Speaker 10: your conversation, so I like to be a part of one. 63 00:02:56,830 --> 00:03:00,190 Speaker 7: Thank you, my man. A southern boy, South Carolina, okay? 64 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 2: There you go. 65 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,770 Speaker 9: You know, I don't know, you know, When I see 66 00:03:03,790 --> 00:03:07,110 Speaker 9: people on TV and you're so articulate, there are no y'alls, 67 00:03:07,150 --> 00:03:08,070 Speaker 9: there are no accents. 68 00:03:08,410 --> 00:03:10,530 Speaker 11: How does a man come straight out of Columbia? 69 00:03:10,550 --> 00:03:12,130 Speaker 9: And I know Columbia because Steve Harvey and I used 70 00:03:12,190 --> 00:03:14,130 Speaker 9: to go down a lot performing at the town center, 71 00:03:14,510 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 9: selling that place out all the time. So I'm very 72 00:03:16,380 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 9: familiar with South Carolina, Charleston, that whole low country. There's 73 00:03:20,340 --> 00:03:23,860 Speaker 9: no low country in your country. Tone, what's going on here? 74 00:03:23,980 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 9: How you break that low country accent? 75 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 2: It's funny because I never had it. 76 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:34,740 Speaker 10: My mom, you'll appreciate this, growing up in Houston, the 77 00:03:34,780 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 10: way that you grew up. My mom grew up in 78 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,830 Speaker 10: the projects and first in the family to go to 79 00:03:39,910 --> 00:03:42,690 Speaker 10: college and first in the family to get a graduate degree. 80 00:03:43,290 --> 00:03:44,590 Speaker 2: So when we. 81 00:03:44,470 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 10: Came along, she wanted to expose us. to things and 82 00:03:49,860 --> 00:03:54,170 Speaker 10: places that she had not been exposed to. And consequently, 83 00:03:55,190 --> 00:03:58,290 Speaker 10: I think I was probably 14 or 15, and she 84 00:03:58,330 --> 00:03:59,730 Speaker 10: had us take. 85 00:03:59,590 --> 00:04:01,650 Speaker 2: Part in these oratorical contests. 86 00:04:01,730 --> 00:04:01,930 Speaker 7: Right. 87 00:04:02,770 --> 00:04:06,230 Speaker 10: And that was kind of how it started. So I 88 00:04:07,250 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 10: took some public speaking classes and then these oratorical contests. 89 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 10: And then the next thing you knew, I had what 90 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,460 Speaker 10: they like to call in the business a nondescript dialect. 91 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: Right. 92 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 2: You can't really tell based on listening to me where 93 00:04:23,180 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 2: I'm from. It's a blessing now. When I was growing up, 94 00:04:26,860 --> 00:04:31,430 Speaker 2: it was always, he's talking white. Absolutely. He talks like 95 00:04:31,470 --> 00:04:36,109 Speaker 2: a white boy. So it's, you know, it was a curse. 96 00:04:36,170 --> 00:04:36,950 Speaker 2: Now it's a blessing. 97 00:04:37,230 --> 00:04:39,669 Speaker 9: Well, you know, it's interesting because I knew in my 98 00:04:39,690 --> 00:04:42,150 Speaker 9: middle school, I remember my teacher used to always ask 99 00:04:42,170 --> 00:04:44,109 Speaker 9: me to read, used to always ask me to read. And, 100 00:04:44,150 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 9: you know, people talk about bullying. And, you know, when 101 00:04:46,900 --> 00:04:49,580 Speaker 9: you people talk about, They call you snowflake. That was 102 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,930 Speaker 9: a form of bullying. And then so it's popularized now 103 00:04:52,950 --> 00:04:54,750 Speaker 9: because people are willing to talk about it. But we 104 00:04:54,790 --> 00:04:57,030 Speaker 9: all grew up in some form of physical or mental 105 00:04:57,089 --> 00:05:00,090 Speaker 9: abuse from high school kids or people in the neighborhood. 106 00:05:00,529 --> 00:05:03,010 Speaker 7: And I remember this girl, she. 107 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 9: Made such a big deal that I was always asked 108 00:05:05,580 --> 00:05:08,620 Speaker 9: to read that it almost, I have to say, traumatized 109 00:05:08,660 --> 00:05:12,490 Speaker 9: me because I went exactly the opposite. I wanted to talk. 110 00:05:12,700 --> 00:05:15,430 Speaker 9: I wanted to say ain't. I wanted to slur my words. 111 00:05:15,470 --> 00:05:18,370 Speaker 9: I wanted to fit in. And so with you, I 112 00:05:18,390 --> 00:05:20,730 Speaker 9: bring that story up because you talk about it because 113 00:05:20,750 --> 00:05:22,730 Speaker 9: you was hit with it. You was hit, you know, 114 00:05:22,790 --> 00:05:25,410 Speaker 9: talking wide, didn't want to act wide. You were calling 115 00:05:25,430 --> 00:05:28,750 Speaker 9: it a snowflake. What kept you focused? What kept you 116 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 9: from veering off like I veered off? I veered off 117 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 9: and I said, hey, man, I want to fit in 118 00:05:33,500 --> 00:05:34,060 Speaker 9: and not be me. 119 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 2: You know, I think it was, when I write about 120 00:05:37,460 --> 00:05:39,299 Speaker 2: it in the book, my mother, my mother. 121 00:05:39,100 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 10: Really, Rashad, I mean, she kept us on the straight 122 00:05:43,460 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 10: and narrow. At the time, we resented the strictness. I mean, 123 00:05:48,940 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 10: my mom, she knew all of our friends. She knew 124 00:05:52,500 --> 00:05:56,420 Speaker 10: all of the parents. We weren't allowed to stay out past, 125 00:05:56,460 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 10: you know, during the week, maybe nine o'clock, maybe on 126 00:06:00,020 --> 00:06:02,900 Speaker 10: the weekends when kids were going to parties and having fun. 127 00:06:03,700 --> 00:06:08,740 Speaker 10: I was doing oratorical contests and activities. And I went 128 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 10: to in high school. I think I probably went to 129 00:06:11,260 --> 00:06:14,620 Speaker 10: maybe three high school football games on Friday night. 130 00:06:14,700 --> 00:06:16,460 Speaker 2: I just I didn't I grew up on a very 131 00:06:16,500 --> 00:06:17,140 Speaker 2: tight leash. 132 00:06:17,490 --> 00:06:17,690 Speaker 5: Right. 133 00:06:18,570 --> 00:06:21,570 Speaker 10: And part of it was my mother overcompensating for my 134 00:06:21,630 --> 00:06:23,670 Speaker 10: father not being the kind of dad that he should 135 00:06:23,690 --> 00:06:24,050 Speaker 10: have been. 136 00:06:24,770 --> 00:06:27,729 Speaker 2: But part of it was mom knew she knew back then, 137 00:06:27,790 --> 00:06:30,510 Speaker 2: I think. Kind of what it took. She was a schoolteacher. 138 00:06:30,529 --> 00:06:32,169 Speaker 2: Then she went into administration. 139 00:06:32,570 --> 00:06:37,450 Speaker 10: She knew what it took to shape and mold young 140 00:06:37,510 --> 00:06:38,630 Speaker 10: black boys, especially. 141 00:06:38,830 --> 00:06:41,790 Speaker 2: Right. And that was it. Had it not been for her, 142 00:06:41,870 --> 00:06:44,510 Speaker 2: had I grown up in another house, we wouldn't be 143 00:06:44,529 --> 00:06:45,770 Speaker 2: having this conversation right now. 144 00:06:45,790 --> 00:06:47,670 Speaker 9: Well, you know, in writing your book, you know, the 145 00:06:47,690 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 9: book we're talking about, interviewing Craig Melvin, his book, Pops, 146 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 9: Learning to Be a Son and a Father. Is it 147 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,540 Speaker 9: because of the fact that your father wasn't there, that 148 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,060 Speaker 9: she may be overcompensated? and wanted to make sure you 149 00:07:00,980 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 9: had a better life or you pursued the options, even 150 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:05,700 Speaker 9: though I knew she went to college. I think at 151 00:07:05,740 --> 00:07:08,060 Speaker 9: the age of 22 is when she became pregnant with you. 152 00:07:08,420 --> 00:07:12,100 Speaker 12: It's finally here, the season of celebration. And no matter 153 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,380 Speaker 12: how you celebrate with family and friends, whether you're preparing 154 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 12: for Reyes Magos or Karamu, lighting the menorah, or going 155 00:07:19,100 --> 00:07:21,980 Speaker 12: to Midnight Mass, Kohl's has just what you need to 156 00:07:22,020 --> 00:07:25,780 Speaker 12: make those traditions special. Plus, you'll find gifts for all 157 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:30,970 Speaker 12: your loved ones. Send warm wishes with cozy fleeces, sweaters, loungewear, blankets, 158 00:07:31,030 --> 00:07:35,090 Speaker 12: and throws. Support minority-owned or founded brands by giving gifts 159 00:07:35,270 --> 00:07:38,550 Speaker 12: from Human Nation and Shea Moisture. Or treat them to 160 00:07:38,670 --> 00:07:42,610 Speaker 12: everyone's favorite activewear from top brands like Nike, Adidas, and 161 00:07:42,710 --> 00:07:46,250 Speaker 12: Under Armour. And in the spirit of giving, Kohl's Cares 162 00:07:46,350 --> 00:07:50,710 Speaker 12: is donating $ 8 million to local nonprofits nationwide committed to 163 00:07:50,750 --> 00:07:53,970 Speaker 12: the health and well-being of our communities. No matter how 164 00:07:54,010 --> 00:07:57,150 Speaker 12: you celebrate, when you shop at Kohl's, you're right where 165 00:07:57,170 --> 00:08:00,620 Speaker 12: you belong. So this season, give with all your heart 166 00:08:00,740 --> 00:08:03,230 Speaker 12: with great gifts from Kohl's or Kohl's.com. 167 00:08:04,150 --> 00:08:06,810 Speaker 13: Adoption of teens from foster care is a topic not 168 00:08:06,850 --> 00:08:09,010 Speaker 13: enough people know about, and we're here to change that. 169 00:08:09,310 --> 00:08:12,740 Speaker 13: I'm April Dinwiddie, host of the new podcast, Navigating Adoption, 170 00:08:12,770 --> 00:08:17,740 Speaker 13: presented by AdoptUSKids. Each episode brings you compelling real-life adoption 171 00:08:17,780 --> 00:08:20,260 Speaker 13: stories told by the families that live them with commentary 172 00:08:20,300 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 13: from experts. Visit AdoptUSKids.org slash podcast or subscribe to Navigating Adoption, 173 00:08:26,220 --> 00:08:29,540 Speaker 13: presented by AdoptUSKids. Brought to you by the U.S. Department 174 00:08:29,580 --> 00:08:32,260 Speaker 13: of Health and Human Services Administration for Children and Families 175 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 13: and the Ad Council. 176 00:08:34,730 --> 00:08:36,010 Speaker 4: What grows in the forest? 177 00:08:36,410 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 5: Trees? 178 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 10: Sure. 179 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,060 Speaker 4: Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination. Our 180 00:08:41,140 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 4: sense of wonder. And our family bonds grow too. Because 181 00:08:44,700 --> 00:08:50,990 Speaker 4: when we disconnect from this and connect with this, we 182 00:08:51,070 --> 00:08:54,770 Speaker 4: reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than you think. 183 00:08:55,110 --> 00:08:59,550 Speaker 4: Find a forest near you and start exploring at discovertheforest.org. 184 00:08:59,870 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 4: Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and 185 00:09:02,500 --> 00:09:03,180 Speaker 4: the Ad Council. 186 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 9: But talk about that in the middle of this, because 187 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 9: as we talk about trying to shape you because of 188 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:11,500 Speaker 9: the fact that you've been shaped by a lot of people, 189 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,620 Speaker 9: especially the stories. We're going to talk about the prison 190 00:09:14,660 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 9: incident when you was out at Camp Grace, how that 191 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,430 Speaker 9: really kind of like started you in this direction of 192 00:09:19,490 --> 00:09:23,550 Speaker 9: humanizing all men, especially men who are incarcerated. Talk about 193 00:09:23,590 --> 00:09:27,170 Speaker 9: your mom and her role versus your dad role, because. 194 00:09:27,010 --> 00:09:28,309 Speaker 7: You mentioned it just a little bit. 195 00:09:28,770 --> 00:09:30,970 Speaker 9: But that centers around us getting into the story and 196 00:09:30,990 --> 00:09:34,579 Speaker 9: your father changing his life at the age of 67. 197 00:09:34,580 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 10: Mom had to play the role of mom and dad 198 00:09:38,860 --> 00:09:43,339 Speaker 10: for the better part of my childhood. It was a 199 00:09:43,380 --> 00:09:47,670 Speaker 10: role that she was fortunately well prepared for it because 200 00:09:48,210 --> 00:09:50,770 Speaker 10: she had to take care of her three younger siblings 201 00:09:51,950 --> 00:09:55,210 Speaker 10: when she was in college. And her father skipped out 202 00:09:55,250 --> 00:09:58,190 Speaker 10: on the family, ended up essentially dying on the streets 203 00:09:58,510 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 10: in squalor. But no, a mom, because my father was 204 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:09,660 Speaker 10: not physically present as often as I would have liked 205 00:10:09,700 --> 00:10:11,380 Speaker 10: and my younger brother would have liked and my older 206 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,890 Speaker 10: brother as well, mom stepped in to fill the gap. 207 00:10:15,090 --> 00:10:15,890 Speaker 2: She filled the void. 208 00:10:16,190 --> 00:10:19,590 Speaker 10: And not just being present in the sense of Sean, 209 00:10:20,690 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 10: Little League games or soccer games or concerts, not just 210 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:30,500 Speaker 10: physically present, but emotionally present, spiritually present. I mean, the 211 00:10:30,540 --> 00:10:34,590 Speaker 10: relationship that I have with God is because of my 212 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:41,690 Speaker 10: mother's relationship with God. So it was divine intervention. Had 213 00:10:41,750 --> 00:10:45,470 Speaker 10: I had any other mother, things would not have gone 214 00:10:46,500 --> 00:10:49,420 Speaker 10: the way that they did. But, you know, it's also, 215 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 10: and I write about it in the book, as you know, 216 00:10:51,580 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 10: and I do appreciate the fact that you read the book. 217 00:10:53,820 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 10: You'd be surprised how often we talk to people about 218 00:10:55,740 --> 00:11:00,080 Speaker 10: books and they haven't read word one. But I can 219 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 10: tell you read the whole thing. And I write about 220 00:11:02,300 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 10: it in the book. My father, I asked him during 221 00:11:04,950 --> 00:11:07,890 Speaker 10: the course of my interviews with him for the book, 222 00:11:08,309 --> 00:11:10,470 Speaker 10: I said, Pops, what was the most money you ever wasted? 223 00:11:10,490 --> 00:11:11,310 Speaker 7: Mm-hmm. 224 00:11:12,100 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 2: Without missing a beat. 225 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,060 Speaker 10: He said it was about $ 1, 500 back in 1986. 226 00:11:15,059 --> 00:11:18,100 Speaker 2: I said, well, that was a lot of money back then. 227 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:19,340 Speaker 2: What'd you spend that money on? 228 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 10: He said, that's how much it cost to put my 229 00:11:21,860 --> 00:11:22,620 Speaker 10: daddy in the ground. 230 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,890 Speaker 2: And in that moment, I realized. 231 00:11:26,190 --> 00:11:30,449 Speaker 10: That while I had been frustrated by the lack of 232 00:11:30,490 --> 00:11:33,790 Speaker 10: relationship I had with my dad, it was exponentially better 233 00:11:33,830 --> 00:11:36,209 Speaker 10: than the relationship he had with his own father. He 234 00:11:36,230 --> 00:11:38,929 Speaker 10: didn't even know who his dad was until he was 235 00:11:38,970 --> 00:11:39,949 Speaker 10: almost a teenager. 236 00:11:40,330 --> 00:11:41,270 Speaker 2: So it was. 237 00:11:42,030 --> 00:11:46,210 Speaker 10: It was wholly unrealistic of me to expect him to 238 00:11:46,309 --> 00:11:51,110 Speaker 10: be the kind of dad that I had come to idolize. 239 00:11:51,850 --> 00:11:54,220 Speaker 10: He couldn't be it because he hadn't seen it. And 240 00:11:54,250 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 10: you can't be something. Scratch that. It's really hard to 241 00:11:58,179 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 10: be something if you haven't seen it, if you haven't 242 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:03,660 Speaker 10: been exposed to it. So that's what my dad was 243 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:04,220 Speaker 10: up against. 244 00:12:04,900 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 9: Well, you know, when I read the book, you know, 245 00:12:08,340 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 9: I heard Shotgun House. Okay, I grew up in, I 246 00:12:11,270 --> 00:12:13,460 Speaker 9: was born in a shotgun house, two bedroom shotgun house. 247 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 9: A lot of people, if you listen to shotgun house, 248 00:12:15,510 --> 00:12:18,670 Speaker 9: Open the front door, shoot a shotgun, go out the 249 00:12:18,710 --> 00:12:22,930 Speaker 9: front back door, don't hit anything. That's a shotgun house, okay? 250 00:12:23,050 --> 00:12:26,090 Speaker 9: You referenced pig feet. Grew up with pig feet, my man. Hey, 251 00:12:26,350 --> 00:12:27,490 Speaker 9: I wouldn't touch them. 252 00:12:27,390 --> 00:12:28,030 Speaker 8: Now, Greg. 253 00:12:28,090 --> 00:12:30,270 Speaker 7: I wouldn't touch them now. 254 00:12:30,809 --> 00:12:33,270 Speaker 11: But pig feet were part of my lifestyle. 255 00:12:33,330 --> 00:12:35,930 Speaker 7: And so that's the Southern. I'm from Houston, Texas. I'm 256 00:12:35,950 --> 00:12:38,530 Speaker 7: from the South. It was a lifestyle. 257 00:12:38,090 --> 00:12:39,689 Speaker 9: That was normal to me, but it was also a 258 00:12:39,750 --> 00:12:43,130 Speaker 9: community lifestyle that of people taking care of each other. 259 00:12:43,470 --> 00:12:46,150 Speaker 9: And that was really important. Not only your dad, even 260 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,219 Speaker 9: though there were some missteps, there were still people there 261 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 9: to take care of him, you know, to make sure 262 00:12:51,540 --> 00:12:54,059 Speaker 9: he was focused, to shout at him as he became 263 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:54,540 Speaker 9: an adult. 264 00:12:54,820 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 7: There were people in the community. 265 00:12:56,820 --> 00:13:00,040 Speaker 9: That's really important in this book that no matter what, 266 00:13:00,220 --> 00:13:03,820 Speaker 9: there's some form of family tied to your story and 267 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:05,059 Speaker 9: the people in your life. 268 00:13:05,500 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 7: Talk about that. 269 00:13:07,030 --> 00:13:11,790 Speaker 10: You know, it's funny because long before people started talking 270 00:13:11,820 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 10: about it taking a village. 271 00:13:14,770 --> 00:13:17,349 Speaker 2: to rear a child, I had a village. 272 00:13:17,370 --> 00:13:20,590 Speaker 10: It wasn't called that back in the 80s in South Carolina, 273 00:13:20,630 --> 00:13:22,069 Speaker 10: back in the 80s and 90s when. 274 00:13:21,730 --> 00:13:23,910 Speaker 2: I grew up, but I had a village. 275 00:13:24,290 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 10: And yes, there were a number of men who played 276 00:13:28,900 --> 00:13:29,940 Speaker 10: the role of dad along the way. 277 00:13:29,980 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 2: My Uncle James, my Uncle Jake, my Uncle Frank. 278 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 10: But there were also a lot of women that played 279 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:38,660 Speaker 10: the part as well. 280 00:13:39,460 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 2: I was disciplined, and I think that's the politically correct term. 281 00:13:45,130 --> 00:13:48,609 Speaker 10: I was disciplined by more women growing up than men, 282 00:13:48,670 --> 00:13:51,380 Speaker 10: whether it was my mom or one of my aunts 283 00:13:51,460 --> 00:13:53,740 Speaker 10: or my grandma. I spent a lot of time with 284 00:13:53,780 --> 00:13:58,780 Speaker 10: my two grandmothers growing up. And they really shaped me 285 00:13:58,900 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 10: in myriad ways that I didn't fully appreciate until. 286 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 2: I was older. 287 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:03,220 Speaker 7: Right. 288 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,940 Speaker 2: And then after that, I had coaches along the way. 289 00:14:06,059 --> 00:14:06,420 Speaker 2: I always. 290 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:13,590 Speaker 10: God always blessed me with people along the road that 291 00:14:13,690 --> 00:14:17,070 Speaker 10: gave me a little part of something that I was 292 00:14:17,130 --> 00:14:21,550 Speaker 10: able to take and build on. It's difficult for young 293 00:14:21,570 --> 00:14:25,830 Speaker 10: Black men especially, it's difficult to learn how to carry 294 00:14:25,870 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 10: yourself in this world. without examples of it. And I 295 00:14:32,700 --> 00:14:36,390 Speaker 10: had lots of examples, thankfully, along the way. But the 296 00:14:36,430 --> 00:14:38,890 Speaker 10: reality is, as you know, Sean, A lot of kids 297 00:14:38,910 --> 00:14:40,770 Speaker 10: don't have that. A lot of kids don't. 298 00:14:40,870 --> 00:14:44,930 Speaker 2: They just, you know, through no fault of their own mind. 299 00:14:44,990 --> 00:14:47,750 Speaker 10: They don't have a mother or a father or an 300 00:14:47,930 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 10: uncle or an aunt to take their hand on this 301 00:14:52,260 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 10: journey of life. And so they end up finding role 302 00:14:55,860 --> 00:15:00,060 Speaker 10: models that should not be held up or that should 303 00:15:00,100 --> 00:15:01,260 Speaker 10: not be on a pedestal. 304 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 2: And they begin to emulate them. 305 00:15:04,330 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 14: And we're live here outside the Perez family home just 306 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:08,540 Speaker 14: waiting for the. 307 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:09,780 Speaker 11: And there they go. 308 00:15:09,980 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 2: Almost on time this morning. 309 00:15:11,540 --> 00:15:13,940 Speaker 14: Mom is coming out the front door strong with a 310 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 14: double-arm kid carry. Looks like dad has the bags. Daughter 311 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,490 Speaker 14: is bringing up the rear. Oh, but the diaper bag 312 00:15:20,530 --> 00:15:23,990 Speaker 14: wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. 313 00:15:25,030 --> 00:15:27,510 Speaker 2: Ooh, but Mom has just nailed. 314 00:15:27,170 --> 00:15:30,490 Speaker 14: The perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now 315 00:15:30,550 --> 00:15:33,210 Speaker 14: the eldest daughter, who looks to be about 9 or 10, 316 00:15:33,210 --> 00:15:35,860 Speaker 14: has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the 317 00:15:35,900 --> 00:15:39,740 Speaker 14: bag closed, and they're off. Ah, but looks like Mom 318 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 14: doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on the roof 319 00:15:42,140 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 14: of the car. 320 00:15:43,300 --> 00:15:44,620 Speaker 8: And there it goes. 321 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,380 Speaker 2: Oh, that's a shame. That mug was a fam favorite. 322 00:15:48,710 --> 00:15:51,170 Speaker 2: Don't sweat the small stuff. Just nail the big stuff. 323 00:15:51,410 --> 00:15:53,150 Speaker 7: Like making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the 324 00:15:53,190 --> 00:15:55,050 Speaker 7: right seat for their age and size. Learn more at 325 00:15:55,190 --> 00:15:57,130 Speaker 7: NHTSA.gov slash the right seat. 326 00:15:57,270 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 8: Visit NHTSA.gov slash the right seat. 327 00:16:01,940 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 2: Brought to you by NHTSA and the Ad Council. 328 00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:07,220 Speaker 4: Look through your children's eyes to see the true magic 329 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,820 Speaker 4: of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You 330 00:16:10,860 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 4: look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face 331 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,340 Speaker 4: of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They 332 00:16:17,380 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 4: see treasure in pebbles. They see a windy path that 333 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 4: could lead to adventure. And they see you, their fearless 334 00:16:24,500 --> 00:16:26,580 Speaker 4: guide through this fascinating world. 335 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 5: Find a forest near you and start exploring at discovertheforest.org. 336 00:16:31,140 --> 00:16:33,220 Speaker 5: Brought to you by the United States Forest Service and 337 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 5: the Ad Council. What grows in the forest? Trees? 338 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 10: Sure. 339 00:16:38,500 --> 00:16:41,580 Speaker 4: Know what else grows in the forest? Our imagination. Our 340 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 4: sense of wonder. And our family bonds grow too. Because 341 00:16:45,220 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 4: when we disconnect from this. 342 00:16:49,030 --> 00:16:53,650 Speaker 4: And connect with this. We reconnect with each other. The 343 00:16:53,710 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 4: forest is closer than you think. Find a forest near 344 00:16:56,740 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 4: you and start exploring at discovertheforest.org. Brought to you by 345 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,780 Speaker 4: the United States Forest Service and the Ad Council. 346 00:17:04,900 --> 00:17:07,380 Speaker 9: You know, the thing I really like about your book 347 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,310 Speaker 9: is that sometimes, because my father was a truck driver, 348 00:17:11,530 --> 00:17:13,869 Speaker 9: you know, so, you know, when he wasn't driving trucks, 349 00:17:13,890 --> 00:17:15,710 Speaker 9: you know, he wasn't really interested. 350 00:17:17,109 --> 00:17:17,910 Speaker 7: Connected to me. 351 00:17:18,430 --> 00:17:20,949 Speaker 9: I can tell you he was my father. I can 352 00:17:20,990 --> 00:17:22,850 Speaker 9: tell you that. My mom was there for me. My 353 00:17:22,890 --> 00:17:25,540 Speaker 9: mom pushed me. My mom always felt I could be 354 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 9: somebody special in life. When your father showed up for 355 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,619 Speaker 9: your ball game, that memory, you don't know if you 356 00:17:31,660 --> 00:17:34,580 Speaker 9: got hit or home run or got struck out every 357 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 9: time you went up the bat, but you remember that moment. 358 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 7: Then when your mom rescued you when you. 359 00:17:38,740 --> 00:17:45,730 Speaker 9: Thought you had entered early fatherhood, those are two moments 360 00:17:46,010 --> 00:17:49,210 Speaker 9: that really I bring up those two moments, Craig, because 361 00:17:49,750 --> 00:17:51,610 Speaker 9: despite of all the things we do in our life, 362 00:17:51,630 --> 00:17:56,109 Speaker 9: there are always memories that really, some haunt people, some 363 00:17:56,190 --> 00:17:59,670 Speaker 9: inspire people. Your father showing up for your game and 364 00:17:59,730 --> 00:18:03,010 Speaker 9: your mom basically coming to the rescue because she did 365 00:18:03,090 --> 00:18:06,810 Speaker 9: something that enabled you to relax. Talk about those two 366 00:18:06,890 --> 00:18:10,150 Speaker 9: key moments of parenting. Even though your father wasn't there, 367 00:18:10,590 --> 00:18:13,010 Speaker 9: that was a key parenting moment that he provided for 368 00:18:13,050 --> 00:18:15,650 Speaker 9: you that stays with you today and probably carries into 369 00:18:15,670 --> 00:18:18,629 Speaker 9: your parenting with your with your children today and then 370 00:18:18,670 --> 00:18:22,810 Speaker 9: your mom being there for you at a moment of doubt, frustration, fear, 371 00:18:23,290 --> 00:18:25,070 Speaker 9: but both of them were there at different times. 372 00:18:25,850 --> 00:18:27,830 Speaker 10: I mean, you're, you're talking about the part of my 373 00:18:27,869 --> 00:18:32,610 Speaker 10: book where I, I, I, I almost became a teenage father. 374 00:18:32,690 --> 00:18:34,889 Speaker 2: I was almost a statistic at the age of 14. 375 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:41,070 Speaker 2: No less. I made a, a, a, a, a bad choice. 376 00:18:41,290 --> 00:18:42,910 Speaker 2: I made a bad choice. And you know what? 377 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 10: I write about it because I, I wrote about it 378 00:18:45,740 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 10: because I wanted people to understand, uh, there, but for 379 00:18:50,500 --> 00:18:53,620 Speaker 10: the grace of God, go I. And, and, and, and 380 00:18:53,660 --> 00:18:55,220 Speaker 10: I think a lot of folks can relate to this, 381 00:18:55,340 --> 00:18:59,090 Speaker 10: this idea that, you know, there's that night or sometimes 382 00:18:59,130 --> 00:19:02,310 Speaker 10: that day, but usually it's, it's that night where you 383 00:19:02,330 --> 00:19:04,730 Speaker 10: went left, but you could have gone right. Right. 384 00:19:04,750 --> 00:19:04,910 Speaker 7: Right. 385 00:19:04,930 --> 00:19:08,330 Speaker 2: Right. And had you made. 386 00:19:08,030 --> 00:19:11,389 Speaker 10: A different decision, it would have altered the course of 387 00:19:11,430 --> 00:19:12,830 Speaker 10: your life in a dramatic way. 388 00:19:14,030 --> 00:19:16,709 Speaker 2: That almost happened to me. I got lucky. 389 00:19:16,790 --> 00:19:20,590 Speaker 10: And at that point in my life, I didn't have 390 00:19:20,630 --> 00:19:24,930 Speaker 10: much of a relationship with my father. I was afraid 391 00:19:24,970 --> 00:19:27,190 Speaker 10: of my mother, definitely afraid. 392 00:19:27,210 --> 00:19:29,429 Speaker 2: So I couldn't talk to her about it. 393 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 10: And it was a situation where, you know, this young 394 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:36,140 Speaker 10: lady was convinced she was pregnant. And I like I 395 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 10: had to I had to do something. This was not 396 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,700 Speaker 10: one of the situations where inaction was an option. 397 00:19:41,869 --> 00:19:44,590 Speaker 2: Right. And and I write in the book about how 398 00:19:44,630 --> 00:19:45,030 Speaker 2: I went. 399 00:19:44,890 --> 00:19:47,250 Speaker 10: To my my aunt and it was my aunt that 400 00:19:47,290 --> 00:19:49,590 Speaker 10: finally convinced me that I had no choice but to 401 00:19:49,630 --> 00:19:49,990 Speaker 10: talk to my. 402 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 2: Mother. 403 00:19:51,540 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 10: But my mom has always been, long before we started 404 00:19:54,780 --> 00:19:56,100 Speaker 10: calling people fixers. 405 00:19:56,540 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 2: My mom was a fixer. 406 00:19:57,859 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 10: Like it was, that obviously was an extreme example, but 407 00:20:02,020 --> 00:20:04,570 Speaker 10: there were so many other times in my life where 408 00:20:04,730 --> 00:20:07,070 Speaker 10: I thought I was out of options. I didn't know 409 00:20:07,090 --> 00:20:08,929 Speaker 10: what I was going to do. And I prayed to 410 00:20:08,970 --> 00:20:12,060 Speaker 10: God and put trust in Betty Jo Melvin. And Betty 411 00:20:12,100 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 10: Jo Melvin always came through and still does now, mind you. 412 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:16,060 Speaker 2: In a different way. 413 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,310 Speaker 10: My dad, you know, wrote about that part in the 414 00:20:19,350 --> 00:20:21,870 Speaker 10: book with Sean Webb. He showed up at my little 415 00:20:21,910 --> 00:20:25,649 Speaker 10: league game and the memory stayed with me because it 416 00:20:25,690 --> 00:20:30,140 Speaker 10: was so rare to that point. My dad, and again, 417 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,859 Speaker 10: now looking back on it, knowing what we know about addiction, 418 00:20:34,060 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 10: about it being a disease and not a weakness, I 419 00:20:36,940 --> 00:20:40,930 Speaker 10: understand why he wasn't there. I understand why he had 420 00:20:41,050 --> 00:20:44,369 Speaker 10: walled himself off from our family and society at large. 421 00:20:44,410 --> 00:20:46,530 Speaker 2: But back then, I was a kid. 422 00:20:46,550 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 10: You know, I was a kid who wanted my dad 423 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,439 Speaker 10: to be proud of me and see me and certainly 424 00:20:52,500 --> 00:20:55,140 Speaker 10: watch my Little League games. And so when he showed 425 00:20:55,220 --> 00:20:58,100 Speaker 10: up that evening and I saw him down the third 426 00:20:58,140 --> 00:21:01,170 Speaker 10: baseline there on the fence, it's a memory that stayed 427 00:21:01,190 --> 00:21:03,630 Speaker 10: with me because it was so rare. That being said, 428 00:21:03,710 --> 00:21:07,409 Speaker 10: now he's everywhere. Like, you know, he was up two 429 00:21:07,430 --> 00:21:10,170 Speaker 10: weeks ago. My son had a soccer game. My dad 430 00:21:10,210 --> 00:21:13,820 Speaker 10: was right there with me on the sideline. And 30 431 00:21:13,820 --> 00:21:16,699 Speaker 10: seconds in, my boy hadn't scored a goal all season. 432 00:21:16,700 --> 00:21:21,580 Speaker 2: 30 seconds in, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, shoot, score. 433 00:21:22,020 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 2: First goal of the game. 434 00:21:23,830 --> 00:21:26,210 Speaker 10: And me and my pops are high-fiving like he had 435 00:21:26,250 --> 00:21:28,310 Speaker 10: just won a green jacket at Augusta. Yes. 436 00:21:28,990 --> 00:21:29,430 Speaker 2: You know.... 437 00:21:30,700 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 7: The book is an emotional book. 438 00:21:33,660 --> 00:21:36,500 Speaker 9: I say emotional because I told people, when I get 439 00:21:36,540 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 9: a book like this, I have to slow read it 440 00:21:38,260 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 9: because sometimes it'll hit points where I go. 441 00:21:40,180 --> 00:21:44,060 Speaker 7: Oh, I'm about to go there. Let me finish this moment. 442 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,140 Speaker 9: Because I remember a moment with my dad, 1992, when 443 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:52,340 Speaker 9: I owned a comedy club. And my dad had never, 444 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,290 Speaker 9: ever been to anything I had been. And he just 445 00:21:55,330 --> 00:21:58,410 Speaker 9: showed up at the comedy club. And it was sold 446 00:21:58,570 --> 00:21:59,890 Speaker 9: out and I looked in the library. 447 00:21:59,910 --> 00:22:01,250 Speaker 7: I said, what you doing here, dad? He go, I 448 00:22:01,270 --> 00:22:05,310 Speaker 7: come to see my son. And he looked around. He looked. Wow, 449 00:22:05,330 --> 00:22:10,110 Speaker 7: this you? This you? This you? And I went, yes, sir. Yes, sir. 450 00:22:10,250 --> 00:22:11,690 Speaker 7: Because I always said sir to my dad. 451 00:22:12,730 --> 00:22:18,740 Speaker 9: And he said, I'm proud of you, son. And like 452 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,060 Speaker 9: I said, because that's what the book did to me 453 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 9: as a dad. Because when you start talking about incarceration, 454 00:22:26,450 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 9: And you talk about, remember you said earlier, right turn, 455 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,060 Speaker 9: left turn, those turns. I always say that when I 456 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,300 Speaker 9: was in college, you know, you played as a fraternity. 457 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,420 Speaker 9: I played Jamaica sci-fi. And you always do stupid things. 458 00:22:37,540 --> 00:22:38,940 Speaker 9: I remember the big brothers. 459 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:39,669 Speaker 11: Said, we want some plants. 460 00:22:40,130 --> 00:22:43,709 Speaker 7: Well, we didn't have no money. And so I remember this. 461 00:22:43,630 --> 00:22:46,390 Speaker 9: Giant open field where they had plants back in the day. 462 00:22:46,910 --> 00:22:49,369 Speaker 9: And me and my line brothers, we went and stole 463 00:22:49,390 --> 00:22:52,060 Speaker 9: these plants, man. I mean, if you look back on it, Craig, 464 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,490 Speaker 9: from the freeway, you would have seen us running across 465 00:22:55,530 --> 00:22:58,890 Speaker 9: this field with these plants, okay? So anybody could have went, 466 00:22:59,090 --> 00:23:01,910 Speaker 9: what are those black dudes, boys, doing running with all 467 00:23:01,950 --> 00:23:06,030 Speaker 9: these giant plants? And I had a little Fiat X19, 468 00:23:06,290 --> 00:23:08,780 Speaker 9: which is a two-seater, and the truck was in the front. 469 00:23:09,300 --> 00:23:11,580 Speaker 11: So I had to put the plants in the front, 470 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:12,980 Speaker 11: and it was blocking my windshield. 471 00:23:13,580 --> 00:23:16,460 Speaker 9: So all along the way, I could have stopped and 472 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 9: stopped by the police and been incarcerated. And my life 473 00:23:19,140 --> 00:23:21,659 Speaker 9: could have changed on that right turn, left turn that 474 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:22,609 Speaker 9: you were talking about earlier. 475 00:23:23,340 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 7: You are meeting men who've done. 476 00:23:25,350 --> 00:23:28,310 Speaker 9: Something far worse than what I've talked about, but they 477 00:23:28,350 --> 00:23:31,409 Speaker 9: have made a mistake. And sometimes because they've made a mistake, 478 00:23:31,470 --> 00:23:33,390 Speaker 9: we don't give them a second chance because we feel 479 00:23:33,430 --> 00:23:36,590 Speaker 9: that they are unworthy of that second chance. And then 480 00:23:36,650 --> 00:23:38,889 Speaker 9: in your book, you talk about, guess what? They are 481 00:23:38,970 --> 00:23:43,530 Speaker 9: fathers too. Let's talk about that journey of you doing 482 00:23:43,570 --> 00:23:46,690 Speaker 9: a story. I think basically changed your life. And it 483 00:23:46,710 --> 00:23:47,590 Speaker 9: started with Camp Grace. 484 00:23:48,340 --> 00:23:50,820 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was one of the most impactful stories I've 485 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 2: ever done. 486 00:23:51,420 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 10: There's a, and I don't even remember how we found 487 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,380 Speaker 10: out about this camp, but I was probably reading some 488 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:02,510 Speaker 10: article in an obscure publication about this summer camp at 489 00:24:02,590 --> 00:24:09,070 Speaker 10: a maximum security prison in California, Salinas State Valley Prison 490 00:24:09,630 --> 00:24:13,210 Speaker 10: is the name of the facility. And for one week 491 00:24:13,609 --> 00:24:18,740 Speaker 10: every summer, they bring in about a dozen or so 492 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:23,140 Speaker 10: kids to basically have a camp experience with their dads. 493 00:24:23,380 --> 00:24:26,180 Speaker 10: I mean, you know, arts and crafts and they play 494 00:24:26,220 --> 00:24:28,740 Speaker 10: games and they sing songs and they do all the 495 00:24:28,790 --> 00:24:31,010 Speaker 10: stuff that you would do at a camp. I mean, 496 00:24:31,050 --> 00:24:33,869 Speaker 10: these kids are between the ages of, you know, seven 497 00:24:33,890 --> 00:24:35,169 Speaker 10: or eight and 15 or 16. 498 00:24:35,150 --> 00:24:35,330 Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. 499 00:24:38,060 --> 00:24:40,859 Speaker 10: And the guys who are part of the program have 500 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,669 Speaker 10: to exhibit good behavior for a full year. The camp 501 00:24:46,010 --> 00:24:50,370 Speaker 10: is a privilege. And I went out and spent some 502 00:24:50,410 --> 00:24:52,640 Speaker 10: time talking to these guys. 503 00:24:52,940 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 2: And it ended up being great. 504 00:24:54,180 --> 00:24:57,429 Speaker 10: Just an emotional day because these are men, first of all, 505 00:24:57,470 --> 00:25:00,149 Speaker 10: most of them are not going to be getting out 506 00:25:00,170 --> 00:25:00,609 Speaker 10: of prison. 507 00:25:00,650 --> 00:25:04,230 Speaker 2: I mean, some of them have been convicted of doing 508 00:25:04,270 --> 00:25:06,710 Speaker 2: some pretty heinous things. 509 00:25:07,410 --> 00:25:11,379 Speaker 10: But the two women that started the camp, both of 510 00:25:11,420 --> 00:25:15,340 Speaker 10: their husbands were incarcerated and consequently weren't. 511 00:25:15,060 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 2: Really a part of the child's lives. 512 00:25:19,300 --> 00:25:21,379 Speaker 10: They would get the occasional visit, you know, on a 513 00:25:21,420 --> 00:25:24,640 Speaker 10: weekend and you've got the glass. But they weren't able 514 00:25:24,700 --> 00:25:26,609 Speaker 10: to really be a part of the child's life. So 515 00:25:26,630 --> 00:25:28,310 Speaker 10: they came up with this idea for a camp. And 516 00:25:28,330 --> 00:25:30,170 Speaker 10: I talked to one of the guys out there and. 517 00:25:30,090 --> 00:25:30,990 Speaker 2: I asked him the question. 518 00:25:31,010 --> 00:25:32,129 Speaker 10: I knew a lot of people were going to be 519 00:25:32,210 --> 00:25:35,430 Speaker 10: asking when they watched or read the story. How can 520 00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:41,010 Speaker 10: someone accused of some of the things these guys were 521 00:25:41,050 --> 00:25:46,370 Speaker 10: accused of? In what universe do they deserve this? the 522 00:25:46,450 --> 00:25:51,730 Speaker 10: right to spend time with a child. And without missing 523 00:25:51,780 --> 00:25:56,060 Speaker 10: a beat, he said to me, tears in his eyes, 524 00:25:56,340 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 10: they might be right. I may not deserve it, but 525 00:25:59,100 --> 00:26:03,210 Speaker 10: you know what, Craig? My kids do. My kids deserve 526 00:26:03,250 --> 00:26:07,129 Speaker 10: to know their father. They didn't do anything wrong. They 527 00:26:07,150 --> 00:26:10,490 Speaker 10: didn't make any bad choices. And his larger point, and 528 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 10: I think this was just as valid, if we're serious 529 00:26:13,100 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 10: about stopping the prison pipeline that we always talk about, 530 00:26:17,220 --> 00:26:18,980 Speaker 10: then we need. 531 00:26:18,859 --> 00:26:23,020 Speaker 2: To make sure that kids... of incarcerated individuals, have relationships 532 00:26:23,060 --> 00:26:23,340 Speaker 2: with them. 533 00:26:23,619 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 10: He spent a fair amount of his time talking to 534 00:26:25,859 --> 00:26:30,770 Speaker 10: his daughter about choices, making good choices, not ending up 535 00:26:30,850 --> 00:26:32,670 Speaker 10: where he ended up. 536 00:26:32,850 --> 00:26:35,430 Speaker 2: It's a fantastic program and it moved me. It also 537 00:26:35,470 --> 00:26:38,930 Speaker 2: moved me, Rashad, because my grandmother, and it's the first 538 00:26:39,010 --> 00:26:39,330 Speaker 2: line in. 539 00:26:39,310 --> 00:26:42,430 Speaker 10: The book, not to give away too much, but My grandmother, 540 00:26:42,450 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 10: now when I knew her, she was going to church, 541 00:26:47,980 --> 00:26:50,060 Speaker 10: at church, or coming home from church. 542 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:55,179 Speaker 2: She only loved the Lord. Apparently, long before I came along. 543 00:26:55,420 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 11: I'll tell you what, Craig, let's just say she's a bootlegger. 544 00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,010 Speaker 7: I don't want to give away no more than that. 545 00:26:59,050 --> 00:27:00,379 Speaker 7: Just say she's a bootlegger. I don't want to give 546 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,430 Speaker 7: away the earlier part, okay? She's a bootlegger. 547 00:27:02,990 --> 00:27:07,230 Speaker 2: She was a bootlegger. She was a bootlegger and got 548 00:27:07,270 --> 00:27:08,070 Speaker 2: a second chance. 549 00:27:08,190 --> 00:27:08,830 Speaker 8: Yes, she did. 550 00:27:09,410 --> 00:27:13,369 Speaker 10: And had she not gotten a second chance, who's to 551 00:27:13,410 --> 00:27:15,620 Speaker 10: say whether I would be here right now, you know? 552 00:27:16,460 --> 00:27:18,700 Speaker 9: But here's the thing I want to point out about that. Now, 553 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,300 Speaker 9: his grandmother was in the same jail that Martha Stewart 554 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:22,580 Speaker 9: was in. 555 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 11: So she got how many chances that she's got. 556 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 2: Okay. 557 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:28,900 Speaker 7: But we're in the same facility now. 558 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,350 Speaker 9: And so when I read the book, and like I said, 559 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,429 Speaker 9: it's an emotional journey because it's your story. But it's 560 00:27:36,450 --> 00:27:39,090 Speaker 9: a relatable story because I remember when my younger brother 561 00:27:39,430 --> 00:27:44,389 Speaker 9: was incarcerated in California and glass talking, and I. 562 00:27:44,350 --> 00:27:47,330 Speaker 7: Was in tears. And he told me he couldn't cry. 563 00:27:48,369 --> 00:27:51,590 Speaker 7: He said, I can't cry. They can't. He said, I can't. 564 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 9: And my nickname is Ricky. He said, Ricky, I can't cry. 565 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,180 Speaker 9: Because they see me crying out here, I pay a 566 00:27:56,220 --> 00:28:00,100 Speaker 9: price when I go back inside. And in that book, 567 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,090 Speaker 9: you know, the gentleman you interviewed, he said, look, he said, 568 00:28:03,130 --> 00:28:07,090 Speaker 9: thank God I have a cell by myself. Because now 569 00:28:07,190 --> 00:28:10,469 Speaker 9: I can't cry. And so I love the fact that 570 00:28:10,510 --> 00:28:11,930 Speaker 9: you were humanizing people. 571 00:28:11,950 --> 00:28:15,300 Speaker 7: Because we see the violent side. 572 00:28:15,340 --> 00:28:18,620 Speaker 9: And nobody's trying to downplay that. But we have made mistakes. 573 00:28:19,090 --> 00:28:20,830 Speaker 9: There are people on the other side of this that 574 00:28:20,869 --> 00:28:22,210 Speaker 9: have to deal with it emotionally. 575 00:28:22,230 --> 00:28:22,990 Speaker 7: These are kids. 576 00:28:23,410 --> 00:28:26,690 Speaker 9: And like one of them said, look, it's all right 577 00:28:26,790 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 9: early on when you're playing cards and you're playing catch. 578 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 9: But when they become teens, the conversation becomes different. And 579 00:28:33,980 --> 00:28:36,780 Speaker 9: that's what fatherhood is all about, which leads to your 580 00:28:36,859 --> 00:28:39,580 Speaker 9: whole life of being a father, being connected to your 581 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,479 Speaker 9: dad and now being a present day father. 582 00:28:41,540 --> 00:28:42,620 Speaker 7: Let's talk about that, Greg. 583 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,900 Speaker 10: You know, I think that I think that you can 584 00:28:47,940 --> 00:28:53,300 Speaker 10: be shaped. by negative examples, just as much as you 585 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:54,790 Speaker 10: can be shaped by positive examples. 586 00:28:54,830 --> 00:28:58,350 Speaker 2: In fact, I think in some instances, maybe even more so. So, 587 00:28:58,370 --> 00:28:59,170 Speaker 2: you know, growing. 588 00:28:59,010 --> 00:29:02,310 Speaker 10: Up, I didn't know the kind of man that I 589 00:29:02,370 --> 00:29:05,410 Speaker 10: wanted to be. I didn't certainly know the kind of 590 00:29:05,450 --> 00:29:07,300 Speaker 10: father that I wanted to be. But up until a 591 00:29:07,340 --> 00:29:09,940 Speaker 10: few years ago, I knew I didn't want to be 592 00:29:10,340 --> 00:29:11,260 Speaker 10: anything like my dad. 593 00:29:11,340 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 7: Yes. 594 00:29:12,510 --> 00:29:15,750 Speaker 10: Um, and, and, and, and that was what, what motivated 595 00:29:15,770 --> 00:29:18,229 Speaker 10: me personally and professionally, probably to a certain extent now 596 00:29:18,260 --> 00:29:22,540 Speaker 10: that I'm talking about it, but no, it's, it's, it's 597 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,860 Speaker 10: funny because I have to remind my kids sometimes that 598 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:30,300 Speaker 10: I have a job and, and, and consequently, I cannot 599 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,930 Speaker 10: be at their beck and call, uh, day and night because, 600 00:29:34,970 --> 00:29:37,630 Speaker 10: you know, when my dad was there, when we were younger, 601 00:29:37,710 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 10: it was, big. Like it was a wedding or funeral 602 00:29:40,540 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 10: or graduation or that little league game that I write 603 00:29:44,540 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 10: about that I remember because it was so rare. 604 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 2: Dad didn't show up for stuff, in part because he. 605 00:29:49,310 --> 00:29:52,390 Speaker 10: Worked third shift at the post office, but in larger 606 00:29:52,430 --> 00:29:55,110 Speaker 10: part because of the addiction issues that he had. 607 00:29:56,510 --> 00:29:59,370 Speaker 2: So as a result, I've gone to the other end 608 00:29:59,390 --> 00:30:00,040 Speaker 2: of the spectrum. 609 00:30:00,150 --> 00:30:02,900 Speaker 10: So, you know, I'm there for soccer games and my 610 00:30:02,940 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 10: daughter had a gymnastics recital last Sunday morning. And, you know, 611 00:30:07,340 --> 00:30:11,110 Speaker 10: I'm physically present as often as in as much as 612 00:30:11,170 --> 00:30:15,150 Speaker 10: I can. You know, I do school pickup and I 613 00:30:15,190 --> 00:30:17,410 Speaker 10: try to do it all because, you know, my dad 614 00:30:17,470 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 10: didn't do any of it. Now, the problem that you 615 00:30:21,130 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 10: create when you do that, and it took. 616 00:30:23,260 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 2: Me a while to figure this out, I've created expectations. 617 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:30,219 Speaker 10: So if I'm not there, it's like, oh, daddy's got 618 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,970 Speaker 10: to travel for work. Well, daddy, why can't you, can 619 00:30:34,010 --> 00:30:36,390 Speaker 10: you take a later flight? Can you go tomorrow? And 620 00:30:36,470 --> 00:30:38,510 Speaker 10: I've had to say it a few times. You know, 621 00:30:38,870 --> 00:30:40,510 Speaker 10: it's the job that. 622 00:30:40,370 --> 00:30:43,890 Speaker 2: Pays for all of this. 623 00:30:44,210 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 10: You don't get to go to dance or you don't 624 00:30:46,740 --> 00:30:50,020 Speaker 10: get to go to soccer if daddy's not hopping on planes. 625 00:30:50,100 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 626 00:30:52,100 --> 00:30:56,700 Speaker 10: So that's the unfortunate part. But they're starting to understand. 627 00:30:56,740 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 10: But it's funny as you become a parent, how you 628 00:30:59,620 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 10: at some point become... you become the kind of, for me, 629 00:31:03,660 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 10: at least the kind of father that I used to mock. 630 00:31:05,820 --> 00:31:06,100 Speaker 1: Yes. 631 00:31:06,220 --> 00:31:07,740 Speaker 2: I hated when my dad. 632 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 10: Would talk about, you know, how much something costs and 633 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,990 Speaker 10: we don't have money for this. 634 00:31:13,430 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 2: And when we were younger, We didn't. He wasn't lying. 635 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 10: We knew we didn't have a lot of money. We 636 00:31:18,420 --> 00:31:21,900 Speaker 10: knew we had enough. With my kids, I've said a 637 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 10: few times, we can't afford this. And my son without 638 00:31:24,300 --> 00:31:26,340 Speaker 10: missing a beat will say, yes, we can. 639 00:31:26,780 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 2: Yes, we can. 640 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 10: And I'm like, and then you find yourself trying to 641 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:36,140 Speaker 10: come up with a new excuse. Like, well, maybe we 642 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 10: can't afford it, but we don't need it. You don't 643 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:39,060 Speaker 10: need that. 644 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:40,420 Speaker 8: Right, right, right. 645 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 7: You know, so it's... It's hard. 646 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:44,270 Speaker 2: It's hard. 647 00:31:44,350 --> 00:31:45,470 Speaker 7: I know we're about to wrap up. 648 00:31:45,530 --> 00:31:48,730 Speaker 9: I want to bring up a very fun moment as 649 00:31:48,770 --> 00:31:51,290 Speaker 9: a parent that I want to share with you because 650 00:31:51,310 --> 00:31:55,650 Speaker 9: you wrote about it when your son climbed in the bed. Kids, 651 00:31:55,690 --> 00:31:58,390 Speaker 9: when they sleep, if you don't have kids, children, if 652 00:31:58,410 --> 00:32:01,510 Speaker 9: you've got a very young child, when they climb in. 653 00:32:01,470 --> 00:32:02,860 Speaker 7: The bed, they forget you in bed. 654 00:32:03,300 --> 00:32:06,700 Speaker 9: Kids are the worst sleepers in the world, especially when 655 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,340 Speaker 9: they get that six to ten years of age. 656 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 7: They're the worst sleepers. 657 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 9: And so when you say that in the book, you 658 00:32:12,180 --> 00:32:17,050 Speaker 9: say you may miss that. I remember when I talked 659 00:32:17,070 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 9: to my daughter when she was like 17. 660 00:32:18,660 --> 00:32:20,730 Speaker 11: I said, hey, won't you hop in bed and watch 661 00:32:20,790 --> 00:32:21,310 Speaker 11: a TV show? 662 00:32:21,330 --> 00:32:24,209 Speaker 7: What you talking about? I said, you know, can we 663 00:32:24,250 --> 00:32:26,890 Speaker 7: not watch a TV? Can we not watch TV together? 664 00:32:27,070 --> 00:32:29,130 Speaker 11: Remember we used to go, I don't do that no more, Dad. 665 00:32:29,210 --> 00:32:29,570 Speaker 10: Uh-uh. 666 00:32:29,670 --> 00:32:32,710 Speaker 7: No, no, we're not doing that. So I will tell 667 00:32:32,730 --> 00:32:35,650 Speaker 7: you this, Craig. That moment brought laughter to me. It 668 00:32:35,690 --> 00:32:36,670 Speaker 7: brought back memories. 669 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,260 Speaker 9: As your book, the amazingly good book, Pops, Learning to 670 00:32:40,300 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 9: Be a Son and a Father, man, it's a great read. 671 00:32:43,620 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 9: Like I said, it slowed me. When I say the 672 00:32:45,660 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 9: word slowed me, because I was becoming emotional. Because like 673 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,570 Speaker 9: I said, my father was a beer drinker. My father 674 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,650 Speaker 9: worked hard as a truck driver. My father, like I said, was. 675 00:32:55,590 --> 00:32:56,150 Speaker 7: He in my life? 676 00:32:56,270 --> 00:32:56,690 Speaker 2: I don't know. 677 00:32:57,070 --> 00:32:58,590 Speaker 7: But did he shape me to be the man I 678 00:32:58,650 --> 00:32:59,090 Speaker 7: am today? 679 00:32:59,330 --> 00:32:59,830 Speaker 1: Yes, he did. 680 00:32:59,850 --> 00:33:02,370 Speaker 9: Because he had a role in it. And that role 681 00:33:02,410 --> 00:33:04,090 Speaker 9: has made me to be the man I am. I 682 00:33:04,190 --> 00:33:06,090 Speaker 9: like to believe I'm a good parent to my daughter. 683 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,550 Speaker 9: a good husband to my wife. And those are the 684 00:33:09,590 --> 00:33:12,010 Speaker 9: things that the stories that you tell out of this book, 685 00:33:12,070 --> 00:33:16,290 Speaker 9: from the incarcerated to individuals who raised you as a family, 686 00:33:16,510 --> 00:33:19,870 Speaker 9: the community, and whether teachers who shaped. 687 00:33:19,630 --> 00:33:21,690 Speaker 7: You as third grade teachers who shaped. 688 00:33:21,430 --> 00:33:24,230 Speaker 9: You as you go through life and you went to 689 00:33:24,270 --> 00:33:27,330 Speaker 9: school and you didn't want to shame your uncle when 690 00:33:27,350 --> 00:33:29,130 Speaker 9: you didn't pledge Kappa Alpha Psi. 691 00:33:30,650 --> 00:33:33,090 Speaker 7: But it was all good, man. I love your book, Craig. 692 00:33:33,110 --> 00:33:34,990 Speaker 7: I want to appreciate you for putting it out there, man. 693 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:35,630 Speaker 7: Thank you. 694 00:33:36,350 --> 00:33:39,090 Speaker 10: Thank you for your time. I've enjoyed this conversation. You're 695 00:33:39,110 --> 00:33:40,930 Speaker 10: very good at what you do. Thank you for having me. 696 00:33:41,270 --> 00:33:41,510 Speaker 5: Okay. 697 00:33:41,650 --> 00:33:43,830 Speaker 7: We talk soon, man. I'm going to put this on. 698 00:33:43,870 --> 00:33:45,110 Speaker 7: I got a nice little social media. 699 00:33:45,130 --> 00:33:47,090 Speaker 9: I'm going to put that out there in my newsletter. 700 00:33:47,110 --> 00:33:48,209 Speaker 9: We're going to get that out there for you. 701 00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:50,610 Speaker 2: Okay, Craig? Thank you, sir. Be well, okay? 702 00:33:50,910 --> 00:33:51,130 Speaker 10: All right. 703 00:33:51,150 --> 00:33:51,470 Speaker 2: Bye-bye. 704 00:33:52,090 --> 00:33:53,590 Speaker 9: If you want to see or hear any of my 705 00:33:53,630 --> 00:33:57,709 Speaker 9: interviews on Money Making Conversation, please go to MoneyMakingConversation.com. 706 00:33:57,810 --> 00:33:59,890 Speaker 7: I'm Rashawn McDonald. I am your host. 707 00:34:00,590 --> 00:34:03,270 Speaker 12: In this season of giving, Kohl's has gifts for all 708 00:34:03,310 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 12: your loved ones. For those who like to keep it cozy, 709 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 12: find fleeces, sweaters, loungewear, blankets, and throws. Or support minority-owned 710 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 12: or founded brands by giving gifts from Human Nation and 711 00:34:14,340 --> 00:34:17,940 Speaker 12: Shea Moisture. And in the spirit of giving, Kohl's Cares 712 00:34:18,060 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 12: is donating $ 8 million to local nonprofits nationwide. Give with 713 00:34:22,780 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 12: all your heart this season with great gifts from Kohl's 714 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 12: or Kohl's.com. 715 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,259 Speaker 8: In the time before AT & T Fiber International... What? 716 00:34:31,450 --> 00:34:33,020 Speaker 7: What are you doing in me dungeon? 717 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,260 Speaker 11: It's the only place where the bloody Wi-Fi works. 718 00:34:35,420 --> 00:34:36,800 Speaker 7: Oh, and you don't mind the spiders? 719 00:34:36,980 --> 00:34:37,380 Speaker 8: Spiders? 720 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:38,280 Speaker 7: What spiders? 721 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 8: Oh no, they're everywhere! In the time after AT & 722 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:43,339 Speaker 8: T Fiber Internet. 723 00:34:43,510 --> 00:34:45,730 Speaker 13: It's nice having fast, reliable Wi-Fi in the whole house. 724 00:34:45,890 --> 00:34:48,730 Speaker 8: For sure. The dawn of a better internet era with 725 00:34:48,850 --> 00:34:50,030 Speaker 8: AT & T Fiber. 726 00:34:50,150 --> 00:34:51,549 Speaker 5: Limited availability in select areas. 727 00:34:51,570 --> 00:34:54,250 Speaker 2: Check eligibility at att.com slash getfiber. AT & T Smart 728 00:34:54,270 --> 00:34:56,049 Speaker 2: Wi-Fi extenders may be required. Sold separately. 729 00:34:56,090 --> 00:34:56,860 Speaker 5: Restrictions apply. 730 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,509 Speaker 15: When I was 18 years old, A nun at my 731 00:35:00,550 --> 00:35:04,270 Speaker 15: high school was brutally murdered. Getting to the truth has 732 00:35:04,370 --> 00:35:08,450 Speaker 15: opened a Pandora's box of secrets, exposing abuse of power 733 00:35:08,890 --> 00:35:11,580 Speaker 15: and a world of lies at one Miami monastery. 734 00:35:12,739 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 5: I mean, the woman was stabbed 90 plus times. 735 00:35:16,540 --> 00:35:18,340 Speaker 2: There's got to be something else. 736 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:18,819 Speaker 8: Going on here. 737 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,810 Speaker 15: Listen to Sacred Scandal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 738 00:35:25,050 --> 00:35:26,489 Speaker 15: or wherever you get your podcasts.