1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: At ADP we understand the importance of building the right 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: team and offer the data insights to help. Just as importantly, 3 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 1: our AI technology helps you pay the team accurately grow 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:18,080 Speaker 1: stronger with ADP HR talent, time and payroll. It's up Man, 5 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: Carlos Miller of The five South Show and do me Favors. 6 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: Make sure you check out The Black Market, hostly by 7 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: me only on the eighty five South Show. Fee Subscribe 8 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: to the eighty five South Show to hear and tune 9 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:34,279 Speaker 1: into the Black Market. Here amazing interviews with entrepreneurs, creatives 10 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: and thought leaders to people who are doing amazing things 11 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: in the black community. Listen to The Black Market on 12 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: our Heart radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you listen 13 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: to podcast. Look for your children's eyes and you will 14 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: discover the true magic of a forest. Find a forest 15 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: near you and start exploring and discover the forest dot 16 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: Orgon brought to you by the United States Force Service 17 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: and the ad Council. Welcome to Money Making Conversations. It's 18 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: the show that she has the secrets of success experience 19 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: firsthand by marketing and Brandon expert Rashan McDonald. I will 20 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: know he's giving me advice to many occasions. In the 21 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: case you didn't notice, I'm not broke. You know. He'll 22 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: be interviewing celebrity CEOs, entrepreneurs and industry decision makers. It's 23 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: what he likes to do, it's what he likes to share. 24 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: Now it's time to hear from my man, Rashan McDonald, 25 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: money making conversations. Here we come. Welcome to the money 26 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: making Conversation. I have your host, Rashwan McDonald. I'll tell 27 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: people every week as we start this show it's time 28 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 1: to stop reading other people's success stores and actually start 29 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: writing your own. A lot of people are held back. 30 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: I always tell people you're here by gifts, you here 31 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: a by passion. I tell people to leave with their 32 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: gifts and don't let their age, especially their age, French 33 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: family or co workers stop you from planning or living 34 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: your dream. My interviews, I bring on money main conversations 35 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: you might see with celebrity ceo, entrepreneurs, and what I 36 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: like to call industry decision makers. My next guest is 37 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: a Craig Melvine. He's the co host of The Today 38 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: Show and the author of the book Pops Learning to 39 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: Be a Son and the Father. You may know Criggs 40 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: and the war winning news anchor. As I said earlier 41 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: on the Today's Show, you also have seen him on 42 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: MSNBC Live and the host of Dateline. He's on the 43 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 1: show discussed this book, Pops Learning to Be a Son 44 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: and the Father. It's the story of all the father 45 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: figures in Craig's life and that includes inspiring men from 46 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: his program or his series called Dad's Got this series 47 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: on NBC NBC News Today. These experiences, encounters of shapes 48 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: crests understanding of his own role as a dad, and 49 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:39,839 Speaker 1: I'm sure I can be related. We'll have a nice 50 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: conversation since Father's Day has recently passed. He has two 51 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,959 Speaker 1: young children. Please welp with the money making conversation, my man, 52 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: Craig Melvin. How you doing, Creig Sewing. I'm well, I'm well. 53 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. Always enjoy your conversation. 54 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: So I have to be a part of one. Thank you. 55 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: A Southern boy South Carolina. You know you know, uh, 56 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: you know when I when I see people on TV 57 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: and you saw articulate, there's no yalls, there's no access. 58 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: How does a man come straight out of Columbia? I 59 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:12,519 Speaker 1: know color because Steve Harvey. I used to go down 60 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: a lot of performative town center selling that place out 61 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 1: all the time. So I'm fair for me with South Carolina, Charleston, 62 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: that whole low country. There's no low country in your tone. 63 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: What's going on there? You are? You break that low 64 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: country accent? Low country accent because I didn't. I never, 65 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: I never had it. My mom, Uh, you'll appreciate this 66 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: growing up in Houston, the way that you grew up. 67 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: My mom grew up in the projects and first in 68 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: the family to go to college and first in the 69 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: family to get a graduate degree. So when we came along, 70 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: she wanted to expose us to two things and places 71 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: that she had not been exposed to. And consequently, I 72 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: think it's I was probably fourteen or fifteen, and she 73 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: had us take part in the oratorical contests, um and 74 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: and that was was kind of how it started. So 75 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: I took some public speaking classes and then these oratorical contests, 76 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: and then the next thing you knew, I had what 77 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: they what they like to call in the business a 78 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: nondescript dialect. You can't really tell based on listening to 79 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: me where I'm from. It's a blessing. Now when I 80 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 1: was growing up, it was always he's he's talking white. Absolutely, 81 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: he talks like he talks like a white boy. So 82 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: it's you know, it's it was the curse. Now it's 83 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: a blessing. Well, you know, it's interesting because I knew 84 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: in my middle school. I remember my teacher used to 85 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: always ask me to read, just always ask me to read. 86 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 1: And you know, people talk about bullying, and you know, 87 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: when you people are talking about they call you snowflake. 88 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: That was a formal bully. And then so it's it's 89 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 1: popularized now because people are willing to talk about it. 90 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: But we all grew up in some form of physical 91 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: or mental abuse from high school kids or people in 92 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: the neighborhoo it and my remember this, this this girl, 93 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: she made such a big deal that I was always 94 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: asked to read. That It almost, I have to say, 95 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: traumatized me because I went exactly the opposite. I wanted 96 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 1: to talk, I wanted to say, ain't, I wanted to 97 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: have I wanted to slur my word. I wanted to 98 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: fit in. And so what you I bring that story 99 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: up because you talked about because you was hit with it. 100 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: You was hit you know, talking why I didn't want 101 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 1: to act whide you you're calling you snowflick. What kept 102 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 1: you focused? What kept you from from veering off like 103 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: I veered off? I veered off and I said, hey, man, 104 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: I want to fit in and not beat me. You know. 105 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: I think it was and I wrote about in the 106 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 1: book my mother, My mother really sean, I mean she 107 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: um she she kept us on the straight and narrow 108 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: at the time. Uh, we we resented the strictness. I 109 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: mean my mom she knew all of our friends, and 110 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,679 Speaker 1: she all of her parents. We weren't allowed to stay 111 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: out past you know, during the week maybe nine o'clock 112 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: maybe on the weekends when kids were going to parties 113 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:07,119 Speaker 1: and having fun. I was doing oratorical contests and activities. 114 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: And I went to in high school. I think I 115 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: probably went to maybe three high school football games on 116 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: Friday night. I just I didn't. I grew up with 117 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: a very tight leash, right uh. And and part of 118 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: it was my mother overcompensating for for my father not 119 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: being the kind of dad that he should have been. 120 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: But part of it was mom knew, she knew back then, 121 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 1: I think kind of what it took. She was a 122 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: school teacher then she went into an administration. She knew 123 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: what it took um to to shape and mold young 124 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 1: black boys, especially right, and and that was it. Had 125 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 1: it not been for her, had I grown up in 126 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 1: another house, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. Well, 127 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: you know, I write you a book. You know the 128 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: book we're talking for talking to interview Craig Melvin, his 129 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: book Pops, Learning to Be a Son and the Father. 130 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: Is it because the fact that your father wasn't there, 131 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: that she may be overcompensated and wanted to make sure 132 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: you didn't you had a better life, or you pursued options, 133 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: even though I knew she went to college. And I 134 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: think of the age of twenty two is when she 135 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: became pregnant with you. It's finally here, the season of celebration. 136 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: And no matter how you celebrate with family and friends, 137 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: whether you're preparing for Reis magos or Karamu lighting the Manura, 138 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: are going to midnight mass, Coals has just what you 139 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: need to make those traditions special. Plus you'll find gifts 140 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: for all your loved ones. Send warm wishes with cozy fleeces, sweaters, loungeware, 141 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: blankets and throws. Support minority owned or founded brands by 142 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: giving gifts from Human Nation and Shame Moisture, or treat 143 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: them to everyone's favorite active wear from top brands like Nike, Adidas, 144 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: and under Armour. And in the spirit of giving, Coals 145 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: Cares is donating eight million dollars to local nonprofits nationwide 146 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: committed to the health and well being of our communities. 147 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: No matter how you celebrate, when you shop at Coals, 148 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: you're right where you belong. So this season, give with 149 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: all your heart with great gifts from Coals or Coals 150 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: dot com. Adoption of teams from foster care is a 151 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: topic not enough people know about, and we're here to 152 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: change that. I'm April Denuity, host of the new podcast 153 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: Navigating Adoption, presented by adopt us Kids. Each episode brings 154 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: you compelling, real life adoption stories told by the families 155 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: that lived them, with commentary from experts. Visit adopt us 156 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: Kids dot org, slash podcast, or subscribe to Navigating Adoption 157 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: presented by adopt us Kids, brought to you by the U. 158 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: S Department of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children 159 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: and Families, and the ACT Council. What grows in the 160 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,319 Speaker 1: forest Trees Sure no, what else grows in the forest. 161 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: Our imagination, our sense of wonder, and our family bonds 162 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: grow too, because when we disconnect from this and connect 163 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: with this, we reconnect with each other. The forest is 164 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: closer than you think. Find a forest near you and 165 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: start exploring. I Discover the Forest dot org to you 166 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: by the United States for Service and the AD Council. Well, 167 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: talk about that in the middle because as we talked 168 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: about trying to shape you because of the fact that 169 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:12,319 Speaker 1: you've been shaped by a lot of people, especially to 170 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: the stories. We want to talk about the the president 171 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:16,319 Speaker 1: incident when he was out of camp grades had that 172 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: really kind of like started you in this direction of 173 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: humanizing all men, especially men who are incoss already. Talk 174 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: about your mom and her role versus your dad role 175 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: because you mentioned it just a little bit, but that 176 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: centers around us getting into the story and your father 177 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: changing his life at the age of six or seven. Mom. Yeah, mom, Mom, 178 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: Mom had to play the role of mom and dad 179 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: for the better part of my challengehood. Um, it was. 180 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: It was. It was a role that she was Yeah, 181 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: she was unfortunately well prepared for it because she ended 182 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: up she had to take care of her three younger siblings. 183 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: Um when she was in college and her father skipped 184 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: out of the family, ended up essentially dying on the 185 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: streets and square. Uh, but no a mom. Because my 186 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: father was not physically present as often as I would 187 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: have liked, and my younger brother would have liked my 188 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,599 Speaker 1: older brother as well. Mom stepped in the trip to 189 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: fill the gap. She filled. She filled a boy. And 190 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: not just not just being present in a sense of 191 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: searn a little league games or soccer games or or concerts. 192 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: Not just physically present, but but but emotionally president right, 193 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: a spiritually present. I mean, the relationship that I have 194 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: with God is because of my mother's relationship with God. 195 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 1: So it was it was divine intervention. You know. Had 196 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: I had any other mother, things would not have gone 197 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: the way that they did. But you know, it's it's 198 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: also and I write about in the book, as you know, 199 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: and I do appreciate the fact that you read the book. 200 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: You'd be surprised how often to talk to people about 201 00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: books and they hadn't read word one, But I tell 202 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: you read the whole thing. And I write about in 203 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: the book. My father I asked him doing the course 204 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: of my my interviews with him for the book. I said, Pops, 205 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,319 Speaker 1: what was the most money you ever wasted? H without 206 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: missing a beat, he said it was about dollars back 207 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: in nineteen six. Said that was a lot of money 208 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: back then. When you spend that money on he said, 209 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: that's how much. That's how much it cost to put 210 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: my daddy in the ground. And in that moment I realized, um, 211 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: that while I had been frustrated by the lack of 212 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: relationship I had with my dad, it was exponentially better 213 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: than the relationship he had with his own father. Right, 214 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: he didn't know who his dad was until he was 215 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: almost a teenager. So it was it was wholly unrealistic 216 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: of me to expect him to be the kind of 217 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 1: dad that I had had come to to to idolize. 218 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: He couldn't be it because he hadn't seen it. And 219 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 1: you can't be something. Scratch that, it's really hard to 220 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: be something. Yes, if if you if you haven't seen it, 221 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: if you haven't been exposed to it. So that's when 222 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,959 Speaker 1: my dad was up against you know, when I when 223 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: I read the book, you know, um, you know I 224 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: heard the shotgun house. Okay, I grew up in there. 225 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: I was born in the shotgun house. Two very shotgun house. 226 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: A lot of people. If you're listening to the shotgun house, 227 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: over the front door, shoot the gun out to shotgun out, 228 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: to go out the front back door. Don't hit anything 229 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: that's a shotgun house. Okay, you referenced pig feats. Grew 230 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: up with big feast. My man, heyg I wouldn't touch 231 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: but big feats or part of our lifestyle. And so 232 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: that's the Southern IM from Houston, Texas. I'm from the South. 233 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: It was it was a lifestyle that was normal to me. 234 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,319 Speaker 1: But it was also a community lifestyle of people taking 235 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: care of each other, and that was really important. Not 236 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: only your dad. Even though there were some missteps, there 237 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: were still people there to take care of him, you know, 238 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: to make sure he was focused, to shout at him 239 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: as he became an adult. There were people in the community. 240 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: That's really important in this book that no matter what, 241 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: there's some form of family tied to your story, and 242 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: the people in your life talk about that. You know, 243 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,439 Speaker 1: it's a It's it's funny because long before people started 244 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: talking about it taking a village, uh to to to 245 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: rear a child. I had a village you know, it 246 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 1: wasn't called that back back in the eighties in South Carolina, 247 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: back in the eighties and nineties where I grew up 248 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: and I had a village, and and yes, there were 249 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:29,439 Speaker 1: a number of men who played the role of dad 250 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: along the way, my uncle James, my uncle Jake, my 251 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: uncle Frank Um. But there were also a lot of 252 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: women that that that played the part as well. I 253 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: was disciplined, and I think that's the politically correct term 254 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: I was. I was disciplined by more women growing up 255 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: than men, whether it's my mom or one of my 256 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: aunts and my grandma. I spent a lot of time 257 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: with my two grandmothers growing up, and they really shaped 258 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: me in myriad ways that I didn't fully appreciate until 259 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: I was older. But and then after that, I had 260 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: coaches along the way. I always God always blessed me 261 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 1: with with with people along the road. Uh that that 262 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: gave me a little part of something that I was. 263 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: I was able to take and build on. It's difficult 264 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: for young black men especially, it's it's difficult to to 265 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: learn how to carry yourself in this world um with 266 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: without examples of it. And I had lots of examples 267 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: thankfully along the way. But the reality is, you know, Sean, 268 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: a lot of kids don't have that. A lot of 269 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: kids don't they just you know, through no fault of 270 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: their own mind, they they don't have a mother or 271 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: a father, or an uncle or an aunt to take 272 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: their hands on this journey of life. And so they 273 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: end up finding role models, uh that they should not 274 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: be held up, that should not a paddle still, and 275 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: they begin to emulate them. And we're live here outside 276 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: the Perez family home, just waiting for the and there 277 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: they go, almost on time. This morning. Mom is coming 278 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: out the front door strong with a double arm kid carry. 279 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: Looks like Dad has the bags. Daughter is bringing up 280 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: the rear. Oh but the diaper bag wasn't closed. Diapers 281 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: and toys are everywhere. Oh but mom has just nailed 282 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler. And now 283 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: the eldest daughter, who looks to be about nine or ten, 284 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: has secured herself in the booster seat. Dad zips the 285 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: bag clothes and they're off. But looks like Mom doesn't 286 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: realize her coffee cup is still on the roof of 287 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: the car, and there it goes. Oh, that's a shame. 288 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: That mug was a fan favorite. Don't sweat the small stuff, 289 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: just nailed the big stuff, like making sure your kids 290 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: are buckled correctly in the right seat for their agent's eyes. 291 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: Learn more n h t S a dot gov slash 292 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:00,040 Speaker 1: the Right Seat visits n h S A dot of 293 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: Slash the Right Seat, brought to you by NITZA and 294 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: the AD Council. Look for your children's eyes to see 295 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: the true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world 296 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: for them. You look and see a tree. They see 297 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: the wrinkled face of a wizard with arms outstretched to 298 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: the sky. They see treasure in pebbles. They see a 299 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: windy path that could lead to adventure, and they see you. 300 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: They're fearless. Guide. Is this fascinating world? Find a forest 301 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: near you and start exploring. I Discover the Forest dot 302 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: org brought to you by the United States Forest Service 303 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: and the AD Council. What grows in the forest trees? 304 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: Sure no. What else grows in the forest Our imagination, 305 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: our sense of wonder, and our family bonds grow too, 306 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: because when we disconnect from this and connect with this, 307 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: we reconnect with each other. The forest is closer than 308 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: you think. Find a forest near you and start exploring. 309 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: I discover the forest dot org. Brought to you by 310 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: the United States for Service and the AD Council. You know, 311 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: the thing I really like about your book is that sometimes, uh, 312 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:11,879 Speaker 1: because my father was a truck driver, you know, so 313 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: you know when he wasn't driving trucks, you know he 314 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: was he was, he wasn't really connected to me. I 315 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: can I can tell you he was my father. I 316 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: can tell you that my mom was there for me. 317 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: My mom pushed me. My mom always felt that could 318 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: be somebody special in life. When your father showed up 319 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 1: for your ball game, that that memory. You don't know 320 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 1: if you got to hit a home runner, got got 321 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 1: struck out over time you went up the bat, but 322 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: you remember that moment. And then when your mom rescued you, 323 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 1: when you thought, uh, you had in an entered early fatherhood. 324 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 1: You know, those are two moments that really I bring 325 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: up those two moments prayer because despite of all the 326 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 1: things we do in our life, there are always memories 327 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: that really some haunt people, some inspire people. Your father 328 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: showing up for your game and your um basically coming 329 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 1: to the rescue because she did something that enabled you 330 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 1: to relax talk about those two key moments of parenting. 331 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: Even though your father wasn't there, that was a key 332 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: parenting moment that he provided for you that stays with 333 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 1: you today. It probably cares into your parenty with your 334 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: with your children today and then your mom being there 335 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: for you at a moment of doubt, frustration, fear. But 336 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: both them were there at different times. I mean, you're 337 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: you're you're talking about Department Book where I almost became 338 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: a teenage father. I was almost a statistic at the 339 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: age of fourteen. Uh No, that's I made a bad choice. 340 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: I made a bad choice. And you know what, I 341 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: write about it because I wrote about it because I 342 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: wanted people to understand. Uh, there but for the grace 343 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: of God go I and and and and I think 344 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 1: a lot of folks can relate to this, this idea 345 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: that you know, there's that night or sometimes that day, 346 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: but usually it's that night where you went left, but 347 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: you could have gone right right right, and and and 348 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: had you made a different decision, it would have altered 349 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: the course of your life in a dramatic way. Um, 350 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: that almost happened to me. I got lucky and and 351 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 1: and at that point in my life, I was. I 352 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: didn't have much of relationship with my father. I was. 353 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 1: I was afraid of my mother, Uh, definitely afraid, so 354 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 1: I couldn't talk to her about it. And it was 355 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 1: a situation where, you know, this young lady was convinced 356 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: she was pregnant, and I like, I had to I 357 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: had to do something. This was not one of the 358 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: situations where in action was an option, right and uh. 359 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: And I write in the book about how I went 360 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 1: to my my aunt and it was my aunt that 361 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: finally convinced me that I had no choice but to 362 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 1: talk to my mother. But my mom has always been 363 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: long before we started calling people fixers, my mom was 364 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: a fixer like it was. It was that honestly was 365 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 1: an extreme example. But there were so many other times 366 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 1: in my life where I thought I was out of option. 367 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: I didn't know what I was gonna do, and I 368 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: prayed to God and put trust in Betty Joe Melvine 369 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: and and Betty Joe Melvine always came through and still 370 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 1: does now. Mind you, in a different way, my dad, 371 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: you know route about that that that part in the 372 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: book with che where he showed up at my little 373 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 1: league game, and the memory stayed with me because it 374 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 1: was so rare to that point, my dad. Um, and 375 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: and again now looking back on it, knowing what we 376 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 1: know about addiction, about it being a disease and not 377 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: a weakness, I understand why he wasn't there. I understand 378 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: why he had walled himself off from our family and 379 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: society at large. But back then I was a kid, 380 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: you know, I was a kid in one of my 381 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 1: my my dad to to be proud of me and 382 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: see me, uh and certainly watch watch my little league games. 383 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,640 Speaker 1: And so when he showed up that evening, I saw 384 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: him down the third base line there on the on 385 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: the fence. It's memory that that stayed with me because 386 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: it was so weird that thing said. Now, um, he's everywhere, 387 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: like you know, he was up. Two weeks ago, my 388 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 1: son had a soccer game. My dad was right there 389 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 1: with me on the sideline and thirty seconds in my 390 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: my boy hadn't scored a goal all season. Thirty seconds 391 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: in dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, shoot score first goal 392 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 1: of the game, and and me and my pops are 393 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: high five and like he just want a green jacket 394 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: and augusta you know, Um, it was the book is 395 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: um an emotional book. I would say emotional because I 396 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: told people, when I get a book like this outter 397 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: slow read it because sometimes they hit points where I go, ho, Ho, 398 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 1: I'm about to about to go there, I'm not. Let 399 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: me finish this moment. And because I remember a moment 400 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: with my dad, uh two when I owned a comedy 401 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: club and my dad had never ever been to anything 402 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: I've been, and he just showed up at the comedy 403 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: club and uh it was sold out. And I looked 404 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: at the lobby. What you're doing, her dad? He goes, 405 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 1: I come to see my son. And he looped around. 406 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,719 Speaker 1: He looked, wow, this you this you this you? And 407 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: I went, uh, yes, sir, yes, sir you because I 408 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: always said A certainly my dad and uh and he said, 409 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: he said, I'm proud of your son, and and and 410 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: like I said, this is because that's what the book 411 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,640 Speaker 1: did to me as a dad. Because when you start 412 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: talking about incarceration, and you talked about when you're talking 413 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: you said earlier, right, turn left, turn those turns. I 414 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: always say that when I was in college, you know 415 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: you you played a fraternity I played to make a 416 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: side five and you always do stupid things. I remember 417 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: the big brothers said, we want some plants. Well, we 418 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 1: didn't have no money, and so I remember just this 419 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,440 Speaker 1: giant open field where they had plants back in the day, 420 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,160 Speaker 1: and my Lyon brothers we went and stole these plants. Man. 421 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: I mean, if you look back on the Craig from 422 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: the freeway, you would have seen those running across this 423 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,880 Speaker 1: field with these plants. Okay, So anybody could have went, 424 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 1: what are those black dude boys doing running with all 425 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,400 Speaker 1: these giant plants. And I had a little Fiat uh 426 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:07,679 Speaker 1: X y nine, which is a two seater, and the 427 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: truck was in the front, so I had to put 428 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: the plants in the front and were blacking my win seal. 429 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: So along the way I could have stopped and stopped 430 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: by the police and been incarcerated, and my life could 431 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: have changed. On that right turn left turn that you 432 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: were talking about earlier, you are meeting men who have 433 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: done something far worse than what I've talked about, but 434 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 1: they have made a mistake. And sometimes because they made 435 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: a mistake, we don't give them a second chance because 436 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: we feel that they're unworthy of that second chance. And 437 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: then in your book, you talk about guess what they 438 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: are fathers too. Let's talk about that journey of you 439 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: doing a story I think basically changed your life. And 440 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: it started with Camp Grace. Yeah, it was one of 441 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: the most impactful stories I've ever done. Uh, there's a 442 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: I don't even remember how we found out about this camp, 443 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 1: but um I was probably reading some articles and an 444 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: obscure publication about the UM summer camp at a maximum 445 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: security prison in California, Salina's state Valley Briston was the 446 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: name of the facility, and for one week every summer 447 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: UM they bring in about a dozen or so kids 448 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: to basically have a camp experience with their dads. I mean, 449 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,919 Speaker 1: you know, arts and crafts, and they play games, and 450 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 1: they sing songs and they do all the stuff that 451 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: do at a camp. And these kids are between the 452 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: ages of you know, seven or eight and in fifteen 453 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 1: or sixteen, and the the guys who are part of 454 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: the program have to UM exhibit good behavior for a 455 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 1: full year. The camp is a it's a privilege. And 456 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: UM I went out and spend some time talking to 457 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 1: these guys and it ended up being just an emotional 458 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,640 Speaker 1: day because these these are being first of all, most 459 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: of them are not going to be getting out of prison. 460 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: I mean they've some of them have been convicted of 461 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: doing some pretty heinous things. Um. But the two women 462 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: that started the camp, both of their husbands were incarcerated 463 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:17,959 Speaker 1: and consequently weren't really a part of the child's lives. 464 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,880 Speaker 1: They would get the occasional visit, you know, on a weekend, 465 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: and you've got the glass, and but they weren't able 466 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: to really be a part of the child's lives. So 467 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 1: they came up inside therefore camp. And I talked to 468 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,479 Speaker 1: one of the guys out there, and I asked him 469 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 1: the question I knew a lot of people are going 470 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 1: to be asking when they watched them or read the story. 471 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: How can someone um accused of some of the things 472 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: these guys were accused of. How in what universe do 473 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:49,439 Speaker 1: they deserve the right to spend time with with it 474 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 1: with the child and without missing a beat? He said 475 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: to me, tears in his eyes. Um, they might be right. 476 00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: I may not deserve it, but you know what credit 477 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: my kids do. Like my kids deserved to know their father. 478 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:09,360 Speaker 1: They didn't do anything wrong, they didn't make any bad choices. Uh. 479 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: And his larger point, and I think this was just 480 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 1: as valid. If we're serious about stopping the prison pipeline 481 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 1: that we always talked about, uh, then we need to 482 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: make sure the kids of of incarcerated individuals have relationships 483 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: with them. He spent a fair amount of his time 484 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: talking to his daughter about choices, making good choices, not 485 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: ending up where he ended up. It's a fantastic program, 486 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: and it moved me. It also moved me, Sean because 487 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: my grandmother, and it's the first line in the book. 488 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: Not to give way too much, but you know my 489 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 1: my grandmother. Uh Now, when I knew her, she was here, 490 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: she was going to church, at church or coming home 491 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,679 Speaker 1: from church. Like she she only loved the Lord, but 492 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: apparently long before I came along. But just just just 493 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: say she's a bootleg. I want to give it. No 494 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: more than that. Just say she's a bootleg. I want 495 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 1: to give her the earther part. Okay, she a bootlegg. 496 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 1: She was a bootlegger. She was a bootlegger, and and 497 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: and and got a second chance. Did and had she 498 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 1: not gotten a second chance, who's to say whether I 499 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,919 Speaker 1: would be here right now? You know. But here's the 500 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: thing I want to point out about that now his 501 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: grandmother was in the same jail that Martha Stewart was in, 502 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,679 Speaker 1: so she got how many chances as she's got, okay, 503 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: but in the same facility now. And so so when 504 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: I when I when I read the book, and and 505 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,880 Speaker 1: and and and it's, like I said, an emotional journey 506 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: because it's your story, but it's a relatable story because 507 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: I remember when my younger brother was incarcerated in California, 508 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: and uh Glass talking and uh and I was in 509 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: tears and and and he told me he couldn't cry. 510 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 1: He's I wished, I I can't cry. I keep they 511 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 1: can't he said, I can't. And my nicknames Ricky, Rickie. 512 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: I can't cry because they see me crying out here. 513 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 1: I pay a price when I go back inside. And 514 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: in that book, you know, you know when you interview 515 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: and he said, look, he said, thank god, I have 516 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,679 Speaker 1: a sale by myself because now I can't cry. And 517 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: so I love the fact that you were humanizing people 518 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,360 Speaker 1: because we we see these we see this, we see 519 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,439 Speaker 1: the violent size, and nobody's trying to downplay that. But 520 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: we have made mistakes. There are people on the other 521 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,360 Speaker 1: side of this to have to deal with the emotionalies 522 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 1: are kids, And like one of them said, look um, 523 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,679 Speaker 1: it's all right early on when you're playing cards and 524 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: you're playing catch, but when it become teens, the conversation 525 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 1: becomes different. And that's what fatherhood is all about, which 526 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 1: leads to your whole life or being a father, being 527 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: connected to your dad, and now being the present day father. 528 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: Let's talk about that, correct. You know what I think 529 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: that I think that you can be shaped by negative examples, uh, 530 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: just as much as you can be shaped by positive examples. 531 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: In fact, I think in some instances, maybe even more so. So. 532 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: You know, growing up, I did know the kind of 533 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: man that I wanted to be. I didn't certainly know 534 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: the kind of father that I wanted to be. But 535 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: up until a few years ago, I knew I didn't 536 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,479 Speaker 1: want to be anything of anything like my dad. Yes, um, 537 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: and and and and that was what what motivated me 538 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: personally and professionally, probably to a certain extent now that 539 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: I'm talking about it, But no, it's it's it's funny 540 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: because I have to remind my kids sometimes and I 541 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 1: have a job, and and and consequently I I cannot 542 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 1: be at their back and call uh day and night, 543 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: because you know, when my dad was there when we 544 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: were younger, it was it was big, like it was 545 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: a wedding or funeral or graduation or that that Little 546 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: League game that I write about that I remember because 547 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: it was so weird. Dad didn't show up with stuff, 548 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: in part because he worked third shift at the post office, 549 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: but in larger part because because of the addiction issues 550 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: that he had um So as a result, I'm going 551 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: to the other end of the spectru So if you know, 552 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: I'm there for soccer games and my daughter had a 553 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: gymnastics recital last Sunday morning, and you know, I'm physically 554 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: present as often as and as much as I can 555 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: do you know, pick I do school pick up, and 556 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: I'm trying to do it all because you know, my 557 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: dad didn't do any other No. No, The problem that 558 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: that that you create when you do that, and it 559 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: took me a while to pigure this out. I've created expectations. 560 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: So if if I'm not there to go that he 561 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: has got to travel for work, Well, Daddy, why can't 562 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: you Can you take a later flight and they can 563 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: go tomorrow. And I've had to say a few times, 564 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 1: you know that it's the job that pays for all 565 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: of this. You don't get to go to dance or 566 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 1: you don't get to go to soccer if that is 567 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: not hopping on playing. So that that's the that's the 568 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 1: that's the the unfortunate part. But they're you know, they're 569 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: starting to understand. But it's funny as you become a parent, 570 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: how you a't some wanted to come. You become the 571 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: kind of for me at least, the kind of father 572 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: that I used to mock, yes, hate it with. My 573 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: dad would talk about, you know how much something costs. 574 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: You don't have money for us, And when we were younger, 575 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: we didn't like he wasn't lying, like we knew we 576 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: didn't have a lot of money when we had enough. 577 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: With my kids, you know, I've said a few times 578 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: and we can't afford this, and myself, I'm missing Abeto 579 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: say yes we can, you can, and I'm like, and 580 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: then you then you find yourself trying to come up 581 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: with a new excuse like, uh, well maybe we can't 582 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: afford it, but that we don't need it. You don't 583 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: need that right right right? You know it's hard and 584 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: I thought we're about to wrap up. I want to 585 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: bring up a very um a fun moment as a parent, 586 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: and I I want to share with you because you 587 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,959 Speaker 1: wrote about it when your son climbed into bed and 588 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: you know, and then your kids when they sleep. If 589 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 1: you if you don't have kids children, if you got 590 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: a very young child, when they're climbing the bed, they 591 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: forget you in bed. They kids got the worst sleepers 592 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 1: in the world, especially when they get that six to 593 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: ten years of age. We were sleeper. And so when 594 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: you said that in the book, you said, you you 595 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: may miss that. I remember I talked to my daughter 596 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: when she was like seventeen. I said, hey, what you what? 597 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: You're hopping bed and watch the TV? Ship what you're 598 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: talking about? I said, you know, can we not watching TV? 599 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: Can we not watch TV? Together? Man? We used to go, 600 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 1: I don't do that no more, Dad, No, no, we're 601 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: not doing that. So I would tell you, Craig, that 602 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: moment brought brought laughter to me. It brought back memories. 603 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: As your book, you know, the amazingly good book Pops 604 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: Learning to Be a Son and the Father. Man. Uh, 605 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 1: it's a great read. And like I said, it slowed 606 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: me when I said the words slowed me because I 607 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: was becoming emotional because, like I said, my father was 608 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: a beer drinker. My father worked hard as a truck driver. 609 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: My father, like I said, was he in my life? 610 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, But did he shape me to be 611 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: the man I am today? Yes he did, as he 612 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: had a role in it, and that that role has 613 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: made me to be the man I am. I'd like 614 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: to believe I'm a good parent to my daughter, a 615 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: good husband to my wife. And uh, those are the 616 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: things that that the stories that you tell out of 617 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: this book, from the incarcerated, to individuals who raised you 618 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: as a family, the community, and whether teachers who shaped 619 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: you as third grade teachers who shaped you as as 620 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: you go through life and you went to school and 621 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: you didn't wanna, didn't want to shame your ancle when 622 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 1: you didn't pledge calf outside. But it was all good. Man. 623 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: I love your book, Craig. I want to appreciate you 624 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: for putting it out there. Man, thank you, Thank you 625 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: for your time. I've enjoyed this conversation. You're very good 626 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: at what you do. Thank you for having Okay, we 627 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 1: talked soon, Man, I'm gonna put this on. I got look, 628 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: I got a nice little social media. I'm gonna put 629 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: that out there and my my news letter, We're gonna 630 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: get that out there for you, Okay, Craig, All right, 631 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: bye bye. If you want to see or hear anybody 632 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: interviews and money Making Conversation, please go to Money Making 633 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: Conversation dot com. I'm with Sean McDonald. I am your host. 634 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: In this season of giving, Coals has gifts for all 635 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: your loved ones. 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Spiders, let's 645 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 1: fighters everywhere. In the time after a D and fiber Internet, 646 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 1: it's nice having fast, reliable WiFi in the whole house, 647 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: for sure. The dawn of a better Internet era with 648 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: a T and T Fiber limited availability and select areas. 649 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: Check eligibility at a T dot com slash get Fiber. 650 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 1: A T and T Smart WiFi extenders may be required 651 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: sold separately. Restrictions apply. When I was eighteen years old 652 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: and none at my high school was brutally murdered. Getting 653 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 1: to the Truth has opened to Pandora's Box of secrets, 654 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 1: exposing abuse of power and a world of lies at 655 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: one Miami monastery. I mean, the woman will stab my 656 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,359 Speaker 1: need plus times. There's got to be something else going 657 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,919 Speaker 1: on here. Listen to Sacred Scandal on the I Heart 658 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.