Speaker 1: I won't let my body out me out well everything
Speaker 1: that I'm made do. Won't spend my life trying to change.
Speaker 1: I'm learning to love who I am. I get I'm strong,
Speaker 1: I feel free, I know who every part of me.
Speaker 1: It's beautiful and I will always out way if you
Speaker 1: feel it with joys in there, she's some love to
Speaker 1: the boom there. Let's say good day and did you
Speaker 1: and die out? All right? Amy here and Lisa and
Speaker 1: I are super excited to be joined today by Jennifer Rowland.
Speaker 1: She has been on Outwagh before and she's someone we
Speaker 1: reference quite a bit here on Our Way and even
Speaker 1: on my four Things podcast. I feel like I'm always
Speaker 1: referring people to something that Jennifer has posted on Instagram
Speaker 1: because I just feel like she uses Instagram. Well, it's
Speaker 1: a powerful tool. Instagram is how I even connected with Lisa,
Speaker 1: and Lisa opened me up to this whole world of
Speaker 1: people that are really making an impact. I'm speaking from
Speaker 1: someone who I know We've got a lot of listeners
Speaker 1: that this is new information to them. But y'all have
Speaker 1: really been digging deep in this stuff for quite some time,
Speaker 1: and you've made it your life's mission to help people
Speaker 1: in a different way, you know, and you're a eating
Speaker 1: disorder therapist. There's other people that do work in your
Speaker 1: field that I feel like sometimes you even have to
Speaker 1: call them out. I just learned so much from what
Speaker 1: you put on Instagram, which if people want to follow you,
Speaker 1: you're at Jennifer Underscore roll in r O L L
Speaker 1: I in. But we're extra excited to have you on
Speaker 1: today because we're gonna be breaking down your new book,
Speaker 1: which is called The Inside Scoop on Eating disorder Recovery,
Speaker 1: and it's advice from two therapists who have been there
Speaker 1: and out of the gate. Just let us know what
Speaker 1: inspired you and Calleen to write this book. Why did
Speaker 1: you want to put this out there? Because working on
Speaker 1: Instagram and working with clients, which that's your main thing,
Speaker 1: working the clients, that's a lot. But to take on
Speaker 1: writing a book, that's a whole another animal. So why
Speaker 1: was it important to you to do that? Yeah, So,
Speaker 1: speaking of meeting people on Instagram, Colleen and I actually
Speaker 1: met I want to stay on Instagram or Facebook many
Speaker 1: years ago and became friends and we both kind of
Speaker 1: came to the idea separately. It was actually very like
Speaker 1: serendipitous where I had been thinking, you know, Colleen, like,
Speaker 1: wouldn't it be so cool if we had a recovery
Speaker 1: book that was kind of how to guide for people
Speaker 1: and eating disort of recovery, where each chapter was a
Speaker 1: different topic, And she's like, Jen, I've been working on
Speaker 1: this book for like a couple of years actually, like
Speaker 1: I had the same exact idea. So then a publisher
Speaker 1: ended up reaching out to me randomly on Instagram a
Speaker 1: couple of months after we started working on the outline,
Speaker 1: and basically long roundabout way of saying, I wrote the
Speaker 1: book because I personally struggled with the eating disorder and
Speaker 1: my passion is really helping other people to recover, and
Speaker 1: I saw this as another avenue to reach people who
Speaker 1: maybe couldn't come to see me for therapy. Well, you
Speaker 1: know something that I have really enjoyed as how y'all
Speaker 1: did the book was you back it up with a
Speaker 1: lot of research and it's very thoughtfully done. But every
Speaker 1: once in a while you'll sprinkle in, you know, Colleen's
Speaker 1: personal story or Jennifer's personal story, so then it makes
Speaker 1: it so relatable and for certain people reading it, including myself,
Speaker 1: it's like oh wow, Okay, there are others out there
Speaker 1: that have the same things that I have going on
Speaker 1: inside of my head. So I thought that was a
Speaker 1: nice little touch that you know, is occasionally sprinkled in
Speaker 1: and made it very, very very relatable. Yeah, that means
Speaker 1: a lot, and we've gotten that feedback that people love,
Speaker 1: like the personal antecdotes. We also tried to write it
Speaker 1: in kind of like a snarky, sassy tones that it
Speaker 1: wasn't like to make a serious topic kind of I
Speaker 1: don't want to say fun, but relatable, to make it
Speaker 1: sound like it was your best friends, kind of like
Speaker 1: talking to you about recovery tips a little bit more
Speaker 1: approachable as well. And I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: really put therapists and maybe registered dietitians who work with
Speaker 1: eating disorders on this pedestal. And by inserting your story
Speaker 1: of I get it, I've been there, I know the struggle,
Speaker 1: which is very I feel like different than perhaps how
Speaker 1: you were like professionally trained to do business. And obviously
Speaker 1: there's a perfect balance that you've found of sharing so
Speaker 1: that it's helpful, not you know, over sharing. I personally
Speaker 1: also find it really meticulously well done how you to
Speaker 1: share and the fact that you really had the courage
Speaker 1: to share and disrupt what's expected of therapists, because not
Speaker 1: just for your own personal like, yeah, you did something big,
Speaker 1: but for so many of our listeners. I think they're
Speaker 1: afraid to knock on a therapist store. They think that,
Speaker 1: you know, it comes with judgment, or they just don't
Speaker 1: really know what to expect. Maybe, so I think softening
Speaker 1: that and prying open that door a little bit to
Speaker 1: your own life creates some safe place. Yeah, and that
Speaker 1: was again like, really our intention was not to come
Speaker 1: off as this traditional therapy where it's very stuffy, like
Speaker 1: you're laying back on a couch, the person is a
Speaker 1: blank slate. We wanted to, yeah, do exactly what you're
Speaker 1: talking about, make people feel more open and more comfortable
Speaker 1: with reaching out for help. So if people wanted to
Speaker 1: pick up this book, and again it's called The Inside
Speaker 1: Scoop on Eating Disorder Recovery, and on the cover it's
Speaker 1: this really pretty pinkish purpleish color, but then there's a
Speaker 1: big old ice cream scooper full of some vanilla ice
Speaker 1: cream and so and then if you again, if you
Speaker 1: follow Jennifer on Instagram too, I love the different you know,
Speaker 1: yummy coffee posts and all the eating disorder recovery looks
Speaker 1: like this, and she's doing like an amazing food post.
Speaker 1: But who is this book for? And maybe who is
Speaker 1: this book not for? Yeah, so we say it in
Speaker 1: the book that this book is really for everyone. I
Speaker 1: think I know myself, and from hearing a little bit
Speaker 1: about both of your stories, I think it was similar
Speaker 1: this idea of like I'm not sick enough, maybe I
Speaker 1: haven't been professionally diagnosed. Maybe I'm not you know, in
Speaker 1: a quote unquote underweight body. And so this book is
Speaker 1: for everyone, for people who've been diagnosed with eating disorders,
Speaker 1: for people who struggle with disordered eating, basically for anyone
Speaker 1: who struggles in their relationship to food and their body,
Speaker 1: because we wanted to debunk that myth about like what
Speaker 1: it means to be like quote unquote sick enough. And specifically,
Speaker 1: we hear a lot from our audience that they are.
Speaker 1: When we talk about eating disorders, what they hear is restriction,
Speaker 1: and that's not their problem. They struggle with binging over eating,
Speaker 1: and sometimes the weight comes with it, sometimes it doesn't.
Speaker 1: But would this book provide tools for somebody who is
Speaker 1: struggling with the binge portion. Absolutely, and we've gotten that
Speaker 1: question a fair bit, and we have a chapter on
Speaker 1: binge eating disorder as well as orthorexia and trauma, so
Speaker 1: we cover a whole host across the eating disorder spectrum.
Speaker 1: One activity that I enjoyed doing was filling out my
Speaker 1: bio psycho social egg so explain to people and obviously
Speaker 1: they get the book they will have a better understand standing.
Speaker 1: But I did think that that was an interesting activity
Speaker 1: to have us do as we were working our way
Speaker 1: through the beginning of the book, just so that we
Speaker 1: understand our egg, and like, what does our egg have
Speaker 1: to do with what's going on with us? Can you
Speaker 1: explain why it's important for people to know their egg
Speaker 1: and why you'll put that in there. Absolutely. So when
Speaker 1: we think about eating disorders or other mental illnesses, it's
Speaker 1: this saying where we say genetics loads the gun and
Speaker 1: then environment pulls the trigger. So looking at your biopsychosocial
Speaker 1: egg is looking at biological factors, right. So I happen
Speaker 1: to have a close family member who had air XCO,
Speaker 1: which I later learned temperamental factors. So there are some
Speaker 1: personality traits like perfectionism, harm avoidance being a highly sensitive person.
Speaker 1: And then lastly we look at environmental factors, so we
Speaker 1: know oppression, you know, fat phobia, racism, trauma, going through
Speaker 1: food and security. These are all things in our environment
Speaker 1: which come together for that person who has maybe some
Speaker 1: of the underlying genetics and some of the personality factors
Speaker 1: which creates this eating disorder egg and ultimately causes it
Speaker 1: to crack, which causes the eating disorder. If that makes sense,
Speaker 1: It makes so much sense, and I think as it's
Speaker 1: such a helpful way to really break down that eating
Speaker 1: disorders aren't caused by one thing. And one word that
Speaker 1: you just said that really spoke to me specifically was
Speaker 1: it can be caused by trauma or trauma is one
Speaker 1: of the things that can bring on an eating disorder
Speaker 1: in conjunction with some other things. But a lot of
Speaker 1: my clients and perhaps people you work with, some have
Speaker 1: obvious trauma, such as you know, sexual trauma or emotional trauma,
Speaker 1: but others aren't able to say I have had trauma
Speaker 1: because they don't view their experience as quote unquote traumatic.
Speaker 1: So do you find in your practice that it's helpful
Speaker 1: to explore what trauma actually means? Absolutely? And that's such
Speaker 1: a common thing where people think, oh, trauma as only
Speaker 1: sexual assault or physical assault or abuse, and they will
Speaker 1: minimize their experiences and say, oh, well, that couldn't possibly
Speaker 1: have been a trauma. So in our book we talk
Speaker 1: about big tea and little t traumas, and it's not
Speaker 1: to diminish anything, but it's to recognize that trauma is
Speaker 1: anything that overwhelms your nervous system's ability to cope in
Speaker 1: that moment. So if you're a child and your parents
Speaker 1: go through a really awful divorce, that could be a trauma. Right.
Speaker 1: It's common, a lot of people go through that, but
Speaker 1: it can be highly traumatic, and so we have to
Speaker 1: realize that trauma is way more broadly defined than how
Speaker 1: it's typically defined, you know in the media. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think it's so important for people to recognize big teas
Speaker 1: and little teas and then if they do have the
Speaker 1: resources to put in the work to maybe even access
Speaker 1: sometimes we yeah have trauma that we don't even realize
Speaker 1: is there because we don't have the time or the
Speaker 1: resources or the energy to tap in to trauma, whether
Speaker 1: big or little, And depending on how long we've been
Speaker 1: numbing with whatever various thing, for however long, then yeah,
Speaker 1: bringing that trauma to the surface is very challenging, but
Speaker 1: then validating to be like, yeah, even though you didn't
Speaker 1: go through physical or sexual assault, you went through something
Speaker 1: else that was challenging, and even if no one else understands,
Speaker 1: it's real to you and this is one of the
Speaker 1: causes that you know is how you ended up in
Speaker 1: this situation. So how how do your clients respond to
Speaker 1: doing this biopsychosocial egg work. I think you know, for
Speaker 1: people it can be a big like light bulb moment,
Speaker 1: or even just it feels good to gain more insight
Speaker 1: into the different factors that caused it, because we don't
Speaker 1: necessarily need to know what caused it in order to
Speaker 1: treat it, but it's definitely helpful right to guide our
Speaker 1: course of treatment. Right, if it's partially caused by trauma,
Speaker 1: then trauma work might be indicated. For instance, like after
Speaker 1: somebody has worked on healing their behaviors with food, I
Speaker 1: will say with the I'M a specific component that can
Speaker 1: be challenging, Like you both kind of alluded to, where
Speaker 1: it's like someone might have never identified as a trauma survivor,
Speaker 1: but as they're looking at the environmental stressors they went through,
Speaker 1: and they have someone like me or another therapist who's
Speaker 1: validating and saying, wow, you know that sounds traumatic that
Speaker 1: your parents weren't emotionally available. Um So recognizing that they
Speaker 1: might have struggled more than they are aware of can
Speaker 1: also be a little bit jarring. I think at first
Speaker 1: for some people. I had to read actually a few
Speaker 1: times because I had never had it put this way
Speaker 1: for me, but was acting as if and I went
Speaker 1: ahead and started doing that. I was hearing you. I
Speaker 1: mean maybe I had heard it in different ways from
Speaker 1: other people, but I was traveling the weekend that I
Speaker 1: was reading your book, and I went out to eat
Speaker 1: a couple of times, and I thought, well, this is
Speaker 1: fun for me to do that act as if activity.
Speaker 1: And we went out to Mellow Mushroom or something and
Speaker 1: I ordered yeah, and I ordered a year barbecue chicken
Speaker 1: pizza with jalapenos, and yeah, it's got this barbecue drizzle.
Speaker 1: And I don't think, honestly, i'd had that in I
Speaker 1: don't know, twelve years, not for any reason. I just
Speaker 1: had not been to Mellow Mushroom. But even if I
Speaker 1: had been, like eight years ago or something, I probably
Speaker 1: would have only ordered the salad or soup or something
Speaker 1: like that, and it was fun for me in recovery.
Speaker 1: And I'm not trying to throw in anybody's face that
Speaker 1: isn't quite there yet, but i will say it was
Speaker 1: a great activity, even on the other side of things,
Speaker 1: to still act as if. And I'm gonna have you
Speaker 1: break that down because some people are probably like, wait,
Speaker 1: what do you mean to act as if? But my
Speaker 1: example is I ordered my barbecue chicken pizza and I
Speaker 1: acted like this is totally normal for me. And it's
Speaker 1: cool because now it is normal for me, But I
Speaker 1: just wish that I had had that activity years ago,
Speaker 1: because you know, I do think you have to to
Speaker 1: practice it. You have to practice doing those things that
Speaker 1: maybe you're like, oh wait, I'm I'm not supposed to
Speaker 1: have this pizza and I'm doing air quotes, but as
Speaker 1: a podcast you can't see. But when you do the activity,
Speaker 1: you act like it's totally normal, and you're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's very normal for me to be ordering this pizza
Speaker 1: right now, and then it creates that new narrow pathway
Speaker 1: of like, yes, this is normal. I absolutely love that.
Speaker 1: That is such a great example and it's so awesome,
Speaker 1: like just to have that joy and food right like
Speaker 1: after you deeply struggled with eating disorder. It's the joy
Speaker 1: coming out of Amy's mouth right now, Like you're so
Speaker 1: alive telling that story that it's giving me life and
Speaker 1: making me want to find a mellow mushroom. But it's
Speaker 1: like it's so contagious what you're putting out right now
Speaker 1: telling that story by using the tool in this book. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think we all feel that, which is
Speaker 1: also Yeah, even though that's an activity I've done, I
Speaker 1: just wasn't ever calling it act as if. So then
Speaker 1: even when I read it in your book, Jennifer, I
Speaker 1: read it a couple of times, and then I wanted
Speaker 1: to implement my act as if. And now now it's
Speaker 1: making sense. I don't know, maybe I was tired at
Speaker 1: the time, but it like wasn't clicking for me, and
Speaker 1: then I was like, oh wait, now I totally get it.
Speaker 1: But so for other people, like breakdown act as if
Speaker 1: and what it is, and then why it's important to
Speaker 1: act as if when you are really seeking recovery. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I love this skill and some people might just
Speaker 1: kind of know of it without knowing the name, But
Speaker 1: basically what it is is thinking about, first off, like
Speaker 1: your true life values and like what you want for
Speaker 1: your life. And so for someone in recovery, maybe that's
Speaker 1: my value is I want to be able to share
Speaker 1: pizza with friends. Yet and in recovery, I feel really
Speaker 1: scared and terrified. My eating disorder is telling me you
Speaker 1: know you're gonna gain x pounds or like X is unhealthy, right,
Speaker 1: And so instead I choose to act as if And
Speaker 1: basically that's doing the action while feeling the fear or
Speaker 1: whatever other emotion it is. Ultimately, just to explain it further,
Speaker 1: I think often in life we say I'm gonna wait
Speaker 1: till I feel motivated or I'm gonna wait till I
Speaker 1: feel confident before doing that hard and scary thing. But
Speaker 1: the thing is that the behavior changed comes before our
Speaker 1: thoughts start to change. So we only gain confidence by
Speaker 1: doing actions that we would do if we were confident
Speaker 1: while feeling scared shitless inside. So that's ultimately kind of
Speaker 1: what it is. And I think your example was so perfect.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that you wrote a book because you
Speaker 1: have such a succinct and powerful way of putting things
Speaker 1: into words. And I think that makes you want to
Speaker 1: do it. It's really incredible. In your book, you also
Speaker 1: talk about mantras for food guilt. I can't tell you
Speaker 1: how many times get d m s from somebody in
Speaker 1: a panic who's going through the guilt of I just ate,
Speaker 1: or maybe the guilt of I didn't exercise today. Can
Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit about what inspired you
Speaker 1: to include mantras, maybe even backing up and just explaining
Speaker 1: what a mantra is I define it. Mantra is kind
Speaker 1: of just something a coping statement, some thing that you
Speaker 1: tell yourself in the moment, And for people in recovery,
Speaker 1: often there's a lot of guilt and anxiety around eating
Speaker 1: or like around exercise behaviors, things like that, and many
Speaker 1: of my clients struggle with guilt and anxiety around food.
Speaker 1: So these are just like short statements that you can
Speaker 1: kind of tell yourself if you're in the heat at
Speaker 1: that moment and the eating disort of voices yelling in
Speaker 1: your head about how quote unquote bad like some food is.
Speaker 1: It can be so powerful to have that, and if
Speaker 1: it sounds like that won't help me in the moment,
Speaker 1: It's one of those things that you just got to
Speaker 1: try it, and it's so centering because it gets you
Speaker 1: out of that fear mode and into safety. And even
Speaker 1: though you're in the same exact physical space you just were,
Speaker 1: it's like a new door has been opened and it's
Speaker 1: just a glimmer of light. But that glimmer of light
Speaker 1: is all you need to keep going and know that
Speaker 1: you just did something really hard and keep going with
Speaker 1: acting as if. Even pairing those two together, I feel
Speaker 1: it could be really helpful. I was just about to
Speaker 1: say a mantra could be Okay, act as if, act
Speaker 1: as if, act as if, and you can repeat that
Speaker 1: to yourself and it's not lost on all three of us,
Speaker 1: Like we've all been in your shoes. If you're if,
Speaker 1: you're listening and you're like, okay, but really, what did
Speaker 1: they know? And it's like, no, gosh, we've been there.
Speaker 1: Everybody's story is a little bit different. But yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: maybe that mantra for you is act as if, Like
Speaker 1: maybe skipping the workout is what you need, and you
Speaker 1: act like that's your normal. Oh, act as if skipping
Speaker 1: your workout is no big deal, and then eventually it
Speaker 1: will become no big deal, like your life will go
Speaker 1: on I just remember thinking like if I did not
Speaker 1: work out for a day, that my whole body was
Speaker 1: what was going to happen. I didn't know if it's
Speaker 1: gonna wake up and my clothes wouldn't fit, Like I
Speaker 1: had those thoughts, if I don't go to the gym today,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be bigger tomorrow. And you know, I wish
Speaker 1: that I had had had a mantra or something else
Speaker 1: to tell myself of like that's just not the case.
Speaker 1: And I was giving myself more stress and anxiety and
Speaker 1: worry in all my thoughts instead of keeping them more
Speaker 1: positive and believing that that I did have more control
Speaker 1: than I thought. Does that make sense so much? And Jennifer,
Speaker 1: I'm a huge fan of therapy, have been in therapy
Speaker 1: my whole life, but I'd say, if I had to,
Speaker 1: I really don't like having regrets. But if I have
Speaker 1: one regret after meeting you and reading this book, even
Speaker 1: is that I didn't ever seek out specifically and eating
Speaker 1: disorder therapist specifically, because even though I knew I had
Speaker 1: food stuff going on, to have somebody walk you through
Speaker 1: these things that I did alone and provide the tools
Speaker 1: rather than feel so freaking alone when you have that
Speaker 1: food guilt or that workout guilt, and to have somebody
Speaker 1: to say it to and to that person to first
Speaker 1: of all validate your experience and then provide a tool
Speaker 1: to get you through it. I mean, you're saving a
Speaker 1: lot on emotional energy that you know. It's hard to
Speaker 1: figure this stuff out on your own because you once
Speaker 1: you're in that fear brain, it's really hard to realize
Speaker 1: that there's any other way to feel. In that moment.
Speaker 1: It feels so scary that your clothes aren't going to fit,
Speaker 1: or that you've caused damage to your health, if you're
Speaker 1: struggling with orthorexia, you know all those things. So yeah,
Speaker 1: you know a dred percent. And I think even when
Speaker 1: you do seek treatment, it's so helpful right to have
Speaker 1: someone to walk alongside you, especially if they've been there,
Speaker 1: but even if they haven't, who has lots of experience
Speaker 1: with working with eating diswortters. I highly recommend that. And
Speaker 1: we also have to set expectations that when you're starting
Speaker 1: to act as if like you're going to be scared
Speaker 1: and that fear brain is going to be activated, right,
Speaker 1: and like you said, something like a mantra or other
Speaker 1: things can be grounding to get you out of almost
Speaker 1: that like fight or flight, which can come up because
Speaker 1: you know, we all understand for people with eating disorders,
Speaker 1: taking that day off of going to the gym feels
Speaker 1: like taking someone with a fear of heights and saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're at the top of this really tall building and
Speaker 1: I want you to stand here and bungee jump off
Speaker 1: of it. Right, So we have to acknowledge that this
Speaker 1: work is really hard, but I think we can all
Speaker 1: say that it's incredibly rewarding and the payoff is really big. Okay, Jennifer,
Speaker 1: do you mind if I read something from your Instagram? Now?
Speaker 1: Go for it. You put up a big picture of
Speaker 1: Hoggendoss ice cream, and that was the photo, and then
Speaker 1: your caption was my life without an eating disorder is
Speaker 1: a million times better than my life with one. In
Speaker 1: my eating disorder, I was miserable, frequently, didn't want to
Speaker 1: be alive, and very anxious. Today, I've been mostly off
Speaker 1: exploring Baltimore with Mark. We got lunch at a restaurant.
Speaker 1: I asked him if we could grab some ice cream
Speaker 1: and we'll be eating dinner out in my e d.
Speaker 1: I would have been so anxious about all of it
Speaker 1: and missed out on joy, not just the food, but
Speaker 1: being able to enjoy the moment and the day with Mark.
Speaker 1: I feel happy and at peace with myself. I just
Speaker 1: wanted to share that as a story of hope and
Speaker 1: encouragement to anybody listening that if you feel anxious and miserable.
Speaker 1: I remember feeling, yes, tons of negative emotions when I
Speaker 1: was in the depths of my eating disorder, just so
Speaker 1: much negativity, and it really was just I was toxic
Speaker 1: to be around, quite honestly, because I was no fun.
Speaker 1: And now here you are sharing a story of hope
Speaker 1: where you feel true happiness and joy, and you're with
Speaker 1: Mark and you're able to to enjoy life to its fullest.
Speaker 1: You're not living small. So I just wanted to to
Speaker 1: read like one of your posts because again I think
Speaker 1: people following you they'll get a lot of that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. But can you speak to like the joy
Speaker 1: and happiness that you do feel now. Yeah, So I
Speaker 1: appreciate you reading that. It's interesting to hear what you
Speaker 1: wrote read aloud. Yeah, I think I felt very emotional
Speaker 1: honestly writing that post because as you know, and you
Speaker 1: know at least to knows when you have an eating disorder, like,
Speaker 1: vacations are miserable, at least they were for me. In
Speaker 1: the past. It was constant anxiety about when can I
Speaker 1: get to the gym, I have to eat out? Can
Speaker 1: I bring my own Like it was just so much
Speaker 1: stress and anxiety. And so now being able to like
Speaker 1: go on vacation, even for like a weekend and just
Speaker 1: like have so much fun and explore places and eat
Speaker 1: out and not have that like eating disort of voice
Speaker 1: in my head is just the best feeling ever. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I just want to provide hope to people that recovery
Speaker 1: is possible. And I would just say to anybody that
Speaker 1: does have a little weekend getaway coming up, or maybe
Speaker 1: even it's just exploring your own city. Maybe you go around,
Speaker 1: you pick a weekend, whether it is a trip or yes,
Speaker 1: in your own town, and you act as if for
Speaker 1: the weekend, act as if you get to enjoy your city,
Speaker 1: you get to enjoy the food, you get to enjoy
Speaker 1: missing a workout, act as if that is your normal.
Speaker 1: And then we're all living proof that it can be
Speaker 1: your new normal, and we want to be your biggest cheerleaders.
Speaker 1: That's why Lisa and I even wanted to do outweigh.
Speaker 1: When I called her to start this, I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm just feeling like I want others to have this,
Speaker 1: and so what can we do? And so I'm thankful
Speaker 1: for her and you, Jennifer Experts that I've been able
Speaker 1: to lean into and and gain so much wisdom from
Speaker 1: and hope, So thank you for that. And this is
Speaker 1: coming from someone who used to travel to third world
Speaker 1: countries because my kids are adopted from Haiti with her
Speaker 1: own almond milk and other produce that I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: it was probably illegal for me to travel into another
Speaker 1: country with, but I didn't care because it was more
Speaker 1: worth it for me to have my organic limons than
Speaker 1: you know, possibly going to airport jail, but whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I just wanted to say I'm so honestly grateful
Speaker 1: to you both for doing this podcast. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: for them what I was on before, there was so
Speaker 1: much positive feedback, and I know you guys are just
Speaker 1: continuing to like change lives and inspire people in recovery.
Speaker 1: We're grateful to have you as a resource, and our
Speaker 1: audience really is freaking fantastic. The d m s that
Speaker 1: we get and the shares on social media. When we
Speaker 1: have an awesome expert like you, like I know this
Speaker 1: episod it is going to be shared a lot. Is
Speaker 1: what keeps this podcast going. And you know, it's like
Speaker 1: just a very small trickle effect of each person positively
Speaker 1: benefiting in such a safe space breaking down ideas about therapy,
Speaker 1: about eating disorders, about orthorexia. And I'm super grateful for
Speaker 1: Amy for really introducing me to a whole new group
Speaker 1: of people that have never heard of things like orthorexia
Speaker 1: or think that because they're in bigger bodies that they
Speaker 1: don't deserve to have care, to a treatment team or
Speaker 1: to get eating disorder help. It's been so surprising even
Speaker 1: for me, the people that I've reached, and they're just
Speaker 1: the nicest people. So thank you for being a guest today.
Speaker 1: Let's do a part two so we can talk a
Speaker 1: little bit more about your book. So we'll pick back
Speaker 1: up with another episode with Jennifer to learn a lot
Speaker 1: more about her book and the amazing takeaways that we
Speaker 1: can use to make our lives enriched. But in the meantime,
Speaker 1: order the book. Will put a link in the description
Speaker 1: and again it's called the Inside Scoop on eating disorder
Speaker 1: recovery and its advice from two therapists who have been
Speaker 1: there so they know what they're talking about. Not only
Speaker 1: did they have the credentials and they're very smart, but
Speaker 1: they are witty and offer some levity in it and
Speaker 1: also sharing their personal journey along the way. I feel
Speaker 1: like too, I just want to say this because I
Speaker 1: don't know. It just came into my head, but I
Speaker 1: feel like to that your book, Jennifer, I know would
Speaker 1: be so beneficial for some people in my life, but
Speaker 1: I don't know that they're quite there yet with it.
Speaker 1: But is it weird to just gift a book like
Speaker 1: that to someone? Or how how do we share your
Speaker 1: message more or I don't know. I'm stuttering because I
Speaker 1: don't want to offend anybody, but I'm just more so
Speaker 1: like it's something where when I was reading it, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my gosh, this would be so good
Speaker 1: for so and so to read. But is it weird
Speaker 1: to give someone a book that says the inside scoop
Speaker 1: on needing disorder? I think it could be okay to say, hey,
Speaker 1: like I connected with this person or I found this
Speaker 1: person on Instagram and I kind of like her message
Speaker 1: and she wrote a book. You know, I'd love to
Speaker 1: send it to you or whatever, just a kind of
Speaker 1: funny anecdote. My parents to visit our wedding venue, and
Speaker 1: they gave the person who we've been coordinating with at
Speaker 1: the hotel a copy of my book, which I personally
Speaker 1: was like, well, that's a little strange, but she seemed
Speaker 1: to appreciate it. So I guess my point is, I
Speaker 1: think it's okay to say, like, hey, here's this cool person,
Speaker 1: feel free to check out the book. Like you're not saying, well,
Speaker 1: this means you haven't eating disorder because I'm giving you
Speaker 1: a book. Well, and I think more so some people
Speaker 1: that I mean thinking of it's just more just educating
Speaker 1: yourself onto what other people were going through. I feel
Speaker 1: like maybe some of my friends or even my sister
Speaker 1: or something. I wish she would have had it to
Speaker 1: read when I was in the throes of my eating disorder,
Speaker 1: because I think it would have helped her better understand
Speaker 1: a little bit more of maybe what I was going through.
Speaker 1: But okay, well I could keep going on and on,
Speaker 1: but we'll do that in part two. Thank you Jennifer
Speaker 1: as always, and thank you to our outweigh FAM,