1
00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:28,516
Speaker 1: Pushkin Hey Happiness Lab listeners. Over the summer, we've been

2
00:00:28,556 --> 00:00:31,516
Speaker 1: sharing episodes from other shows or instead of being the host,

3
00:00:31,756 --> 00:00:34,756
Speaker 1: I'm the one getting interviewed. So far, you've heard me

4
00:00:34,796 --> 00:00:37,916
Speaker 1: on The Daily Stoic and The Ritual podcast, but this

5
00:00:38,076 --> 00:00:40,396
Speaker 1: time I'll be tackling the subject of whether you can

6
00:00:40,436 --> 00:00:43,596
Speaker 1: train your brain to be happier. The conversation you're about

7
00:00:43,596 --> 00:00:45,676
Speaker 1: to hear is from a live webinar that I did

8
00:00:45,756 --> 00:00:48,956
Speaker 1: with the happiness expert, doctor tal Benjahar, founder of the

9
00:00:48,956 --> 00:00:52,996
Speaker 1: Happiness Studies Academy. The Happiness Studies Academy is an online

10
00:00:52,996 --> 00:00:56,996
Speaker 1: school that teaches the fundamentals of positive psychology. Tall is

11
00:00:56,996 --> 00:00:59,196
Speaker 1: a leading figure in the field, so it was super

12
00:00:59,236 --> 00:01:00,716
Speaker 1: fun to get a chance to talk to him.

13
00:01:01,196 --> 00:01:01,916
Speaker 2: If you enjoy the.

14
00:01:01,836 --> 00:01:05,876
Speaker 1: Conversation, you should check out Happiness Studies Dot academy. But

15
00:01:05,996 --> 00:01:08,716
Speaker 1: for now, enjoy my webinar can you train your Brain

16
00:01:08,836 --> 00:01:09,636
Speaker 1: to be Happier?

17
00:01:11,876 --> 00:01:16,996
Speaker 3: Hello everyone, and welcome. It's great to be here. My

18
00:01:17,116 --> 00:01:20,156
Speaker 3: name is tal Ben Shahar. I'm the co founder of

19
00:01:20,196 --> 00:01:27,356
Speaker 3: the Happiness Studies Academy, where we focus on helping people

20
00:01:27,396 --> 00:01:31,116
Speaker 3: become happier as well as spread happiness to sides of

21
00:01:31,156 --> 00:01:36,556
Speaker 3: the same coin. Today we have a very very special

22
00:01:36,796 --> 00:01:44,556
Speaker 3: guest whom I've known since my days in a graduate school.

23
00:01:45,316 --> 00:01:51,476
Speaker 3: So I was studying organizational behavior. Lori Santos was studying

24
00:01:51,516 --> 00:01:57,356
Speaker 3: cognitive psychology. We're both on the PhD track, and here

25
00:01:57,396 --> 00:01:59,556
Speaker 3: we are today. We're going to talk about happiness and

26
00:01:59,556 --> 00:02:04,036
Speaker 3: I'm going to ask Laurie how why she got into

27
00:02:04,716 --> 00:02:10,676
Speaker 3: studying this wonderful feel But before I call on Laurie,

28
00:02:10,796 --> 00:02:15,316
Speaker 3: just a very brief introduction, and again, person who needs

29
00:02:15,396 --> 00:02:19,916
Speaker 3: no introduction. So, doctor Laurie Santos is the Chandrika and

30
00:02:20,076 --> 00:02:25,596
Speaker 3: Runjon Tendon Professor of Psychology at Yale University and host

31
00:02:25,636 --> 00:02:30,556
Speaker 3: of the Happiness Lab podcast. She has won numerous awards

32
00:02:30,596 --> 00:02:35,596
Speaker 3: both for her scientific work and for her teaching, and

33
00:02:35,716 --> 00:02:39,716
Speaker 3: was recently voted as one of Popular Science Magazine's Brilliant

34
00:02:39,996 --> 00:02:43,556
Speaker 3: ten Young Minds, and was also named in Time magazine

35
00:02:43,636 --> 00:02:50,876
Speaker 3: as a leading campus Celebrity. So, Laurie, welcome, So great

36
00:02:51,156 --> 00:02:51,916
Speaker 3: to see you here.

37
00:02:52,156 --> 00:02:53,356
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having me.

38
00:02:54,316 --> 00:02:58,556
Speaker 3: So, Lauri, we've known each other for a year or two,

39
00:02:58,636 --> 00:03:02,996
Speaker 3: we won't say how long, and here we are today,

40
00:03:03,396 --> 00:03:07,356
Speaker 3: So you know I've shared with our community why I'm here.

41
00:03:07,676 --> 00:03:11,476
Speaker 3: I'd love to hear what brought you to the world

42
00:03:11,516 --> 00:03:12,476
Speaker 3: of happiness.

43
00:03:12,956 --> 00:03:15,316
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Tall, you made the transition a lot earlier

44
00:03:15,356 --> 00:03:16,996
Speaker 1: than I did. I think you were on top of it,

45
00:03:17,316 --> 00:03:20,796
Speaker 1: like a way before I was. My transition happened pretty

46
00:03:20,836 --> 00:03:23,196
Speaker 1: late into my career. I became a professor. I was

47
00:03:23,236 --> 00:03:26,996
Speaker 1: teaching about cognition, and specifically about comparative cognition, sort of

48
00:03:26,996 --> 00:03:29,716
Speaker 1: studying how animals make sense of the world. And the

49
00:03:29,756 --> 00:03:32,396
Speaker 1: pivot to happiness happened when I took on a new

50
00:03:32,916 --> 00:03:35,556
Speaker 1: role at Yale. I became what's called the head of college,

51
00:03:35,636 --> 00:03:38,436
Speaker 1: which is one of these faculty members who lives with

52
00:03:38,516 --> 00:03:41,236
Speaker 1: students on campus, right And it was in that role

53
00:03:41,276 --> 00:03:43,316
Speaker 1: that I really get to see student life up close

54
00:03:43,356 --> 00:03:46,276
Speaker 1: and personal, and I honestly was pretty saddened and shocked

55
00:03:46,276 --> 00:03:47,916
Speaker 1: by what I was seeing. I was seeing the college

56
00:03:47,916 --> 00:03:51,316
Speaker 1: student mental health crisis up close and personal. Where you know,

57
00:03:51,316 --> 00:03:53,596
Speaker 1: if you don't know the stats right now, Nationally, more

58
00:03:53,636 --> 00:03:56,596
Speaker 1: than forty percent of college students report being too depressed

59
00:03:56,596 --> 00:03:59,396
Speaker 1: to function most days. More than sixty percent say that

60
00:03:59,436 --> 00:04:02,516
Speaker 1: they feel hopeless and anxious. More than one in ten

61
00:04:02,556 --> 00:04:04,996
Speaker 1: has seriously considered taking their own life in the last

62
00:04:05,076 --> 00:04:07,796
Speaker 1: six months. Like, this is not just Yelo statistics, this

63
00:04:07,836 --> 00:04:11,196
Speaker 1: is what was happening nationally. And so I wound up

64
00:04:11,236 --> 00:04:13,356
Speaker 1: getting into the Happiness studies in part because I wanted

65
00:04:13,396 --> 00:04:14,676
Speaker 1: to do something to help students.

66
00:04:14,756 --> 00:04:14,876
Speaker 4: Right.

67
00:04:14,876 --> 00:04:17,716
Speaker 1: I had the sense that our has lots of answers

68
00:04:17,756 --> 00:04:20,276
Speaker 1: about questions about the things you can do to live

69
00:04:20,316 --> 00:04:22,756
Speaker 1: a happier life, to live a life that's filled with

70
00:04:22,836 --> 00:04:25,036
Speaker 1: more positive emotions, to live a life where you feel

71
00:04:25,036 --> 00:04:27,116
Speaker 1: like you're flourishing more. And I kind of wanted to

72
00:04:27,156 --> 00:04:28,916
Speaker 1: get that content out to my students. So I did

73
00:04:28,956 --> 00:04:32,716
Speaker 1: a kind of little mini retraining and Happiness Studies and

74
00:04:32,836 --> 00:04:35,116
Speaker 1: to develop this new course, Psychology and the Good Life,

75
00:04:35,156 --> 00:04:37,996
Speaker 1: And it was It was such a journey because I

76
00:04:38,036 --> 00:04:40,876
Speaker 1: didn't expect the course to go as viral as it did.

77
00:04:40,916 --> 00:04:44,236
Speaker 1: I know you you historically had taught the original huge

78
00:04:44,316 --> 00:04:47,436
Speaker 1: Ivy League Big Happiness class at Harvard ten years before

79
00:04:47,436 --> 00:04:50,756
Speaker 1: I started my class. Even knowing the success of your class,

80
00:04:50,796 --> 00:04:53,596
Speaker 1: I didn't really expect mine to kind of go so big.

81
00:04:53,636 --> 00:04:55,636
Speaker 1: We had a quarter of the entire Yale student body

82
00:04:55,676 --> 00:04:58,916
Speaker 1: taking the class the first time I taught it. But yeah,

83
00:04:58,956 --> 00:05:00,916
Speaker 1: that was my kind of that was my entry in right.

84
00:05:00,956 --> 00:05:03,716
Speaker 1: It was really thinking, realizing just how many people need

85
00:05:03,716 --> 00:05:06,036
Speaker 1: this stuff, especially how many people at the college level

86
00:05:06,076 --> 00:05:07,956
Speaker 1: need this stuff, and just the fact that you know,

87
00:05:07,996 --> 00:05:10,156
Speaker 1: our field has lots of answer and you know, we

88
00:05:10,196 --> 00:05:12,276
Speaker 1: do to do a better job of translating those answers

89
00:05:12,316 --> 00:05:14,276
Speaker 1: into things that people understand so they could put that

90
00:05:14,276 --> 00:05:15,236
Speaker 1: stuff into practice.

91
00:05:16,796 --> 00:05:20,596
Speaker 3: Yeah wow, So you know you mentioned these numbers, you know,

92
00:05:20,756 --> 00:05:26,756
Speaker 3: forty percent depression, sixty percent hopeless, one intent considering taking

93
00:05:26,876 --> 00:05:30,556
Speaker 3: their own lives. Now. Granted, I know today we're measuring

94
00:05:30,636 --> 00:05:33,596
Speaker 3: a lot more and probably better than we did, you know,

95
00:05:33,596 --> 00:05:35,876
Speaker 3: when we were in college or or you know, one

96
00:05:35,916 --> 00:05:41,276
Speaker 3: hundred years ago. But still the numbers are astounding and

97
00:05:41,276 --> 00:05:45,196
Speaker 3: they're shocking. Why do you think they are where they are?

98
00:05:45,396 --> 00:05:48,316
Speaker 3: I mean, is there a reason reasons why we see

99
00:05:48,356 --> 00:05:51,036
Speaker 3: those numbers on college campuses and beyond.

100
00:05:52,356 --> 00:05:53,796
Speaker 1: I mean, I think, honestly, it would be so much

101
00:05:53,796 --> 00:05:55,516
Speaker 1: easier if there was one reason, because then we could

102
00:05:55,516 --> 00:05:58,676
Speaker 1: fix that and then we'd, you know, a whole society

103
00:05:58,676 --> 00:06:01,596
Speaker 1: that was flourishing and happy, happy. I think it's been

104
00:06:01,676 --> 00:06:05,116
Speaker 1: lots of things. I mean, I think we have, especially

105
00:06:05,156 --> 00:06:08,196
Speaker 1: the college level, there's just a lot more ambition and

106
00:06:08,276 --> 00:06:11,036
Speaker 1: pushing a lot more sets of goals that may or

107
00:06:11,036 --> 00:06:13,476
Speaker 1: may not be contributing to happiness in the way we think.

108
00:06:13,596 --> 00:06:13,676
Speaker 2: Right.

109
00:06:13,716 --> 00:06:16,396
Speaker 1: I watched my students get so stressed out about grades

110
00:06:16,716 --> 00:06:18,636
Speaker 1: and what their summer internship is going to be and

111
00:06:18,676 --> 00:06:20,996
Speaker 1: the career they're going to have after, you know, graduation,

112
00:06:21,716 --> 00:06:24,596
Speaker 1: and they're often worrying about that stuff at the expense

113
00:06:24,636 --> 00:06:27,396
Speaker 1: of the things that matter in the moment, right their sleep,

114
00:06:27,436 --> 00:06:29,916
Speaker 1: their level of social connection, their level of presence.

115
00:06:29,996 --> 00:06:30,196
Speaker 4: Right.

116
00:06:31,156 --> 00:06:33,596
Speaker 1: So, I think I think the kind of cultural norms

117
00:06:33,596 --> 00:06:36,236
Speaker 1: about the things you need to do to quote unquote succeed,

118
00:06:36,556 --> 00:06:38,396
Speaker 1: I think we're kind of off there, and especially off

119
00:06:38,436 --> 00:06:41,356
Speaker 1: when we're kind of talking about elite students in colleges today.

120
00:06:41,796 --> 00:06:45,116
Speaker 1: I think we also have had tremendous changes to technology

121
00:06:45,276 --> 00:06:47,316
Speaker 1: that are affecting us in lots of ways that I

122
00:06:47,316 --> 00:06:49,916
Speaker 1: think we're only beginning to understand. One of the things

123
00:06:49,916 --> 00:06:51,996
Speaker 1: that was really shocking for me, you know, going back

124
00:06:51,996 --> 00:06:54,676
Speaker 1: to college as a you know, forty somethingter professor, was

125
00:06:54,716 --> 00:06:59,196
Speaker 1: realizing just how little social connections students got on college campuses.

126
00:06:59,876 --> 00:07:02,516
Speaker 1: One of the surprises I experienced was going back into

127
00:07:02,516 --> 00:07:05,396
Speaker 1: the college dining hall, which I remember, as you probably do,

128
00:07:05,516 --> 00:07:08,156
Speaker 1: tall like it's just like the loudest place on campus.

129
00:07:08,556 --> 00:07:10,396
Speaker 1: You know, it's still pretty loud, but you get a

130
00:07:10,396 --> 00:07:13,196
Speaker 1: lot of students who are wearing, you know, super big headphones,

131
00:07:13,276 --> 00:07:15,836
Speaker 1: sitting looking at a screen and typing, not talking to

132
00:07:15,876 --> 00:07:18,756
Speaker 1: one another. Right, even though college is a place where

133
00:07:18,756 --> 00:07:21,956
Speaker 1: lots of people are around other people, I think students

134
00:07:21,996 --> 00:07:24,876
Speaker 1: are lonelier than ever. And I think our technology has

135
00:07:24,916 --> 00:07:26,636
Speaker 1: a lot to do with that, and so so I

136
00:07:26,636 --> 00:07:29,276
Speaker 1: think there's a lot, there's lots of different factors going on.

137
00:07:29,556 --> 00:07:31,556
Speaker 1: It'd be so much easier if there is one smoking

138
00:07:31,596 --> 00:07:33,636
Speaker 1: gun and we could you know, blot it and get

139
00:07:33,636 --> 00:07:36,316
Speaker 1: the smoke away and fix everything. But I think that

140
00:07:36,356 --> 00:07:39,356
Speaker 1: it just shows how important it is to be studying

141
00:07:39,356 --> 00:07:41,756
Speaker 1: happiness scientifically and trying to figure out, Okay, what are

142
00:07:41,756 --> 00:07:44,396
Speaker 1: the things that really do matter for a flourishing life,

143
00:07:44,636 --> 00:07:46,436
Speaker 1: and how can we put more things, more of those

144
00:07:46,476 --> 00:07:48,956
Speaker 1: things into effect in our own lives. But also kind

145
00:07:48,956 --> 00:07:50,596
Speaker 1: of think about our schools and get more of that

146
00:07:50,636 --> 00:07:53,396
Speaker 1: stuff in schools, think about what we value in terms

147
00:07:53,396 --> 00:07:55,716
Speaker 1: of society, and get more of that into the kind

148
00:07:55,756 --> 00:07:57,796
Speaker 1: of culture that we're building around one another.

149
00:07:58,716 --> 00:08:00,956
Speaker 3: Right, And when you were talking about schools, yeah, of course,

150
00:08:00,996 --> 00:08:04,636
Speaker 3: college campus is, but we need to start a lot earlier. Definitely,

151
00:08:04,796 --> 00:08:07,516
Speaker 3: no high school, even kindergarten. I think there is a

152
00:08:07,556 --> 00:08:10,836
Speaker 3: lot that can be that can do. Yeah.

153
00:08:11,036 --> 00:08:13,196
Speaker 1: One of our most recent projects was to do a

154
00:08:13,316 --> 00:08:15,556
Speaker 1: version of the class that I teach for Yale students

155
00:08:15,596 --> 00:08:18,916
Speaker 1: for middle schoolers and teenagers. Right again, I think we

156
00:08:18,956 --> 00:08:20,916
Speaker 1: don't even have to stop there, right, So many of

157
00:08:20,916 --> 00:08:23,596
Speaker 1: the practices that I know you talk about at the

158
00:08:23,636 --> 00:08:26,156
Speaker 1: academy and that I talk about my podcast are really

159
00:08:26,156 --> 00:08:28,236
Speaker 1: the kinds of things that you should be doing, you know,

160
00:08:28,596 --> 00:08:29,836
Speaker 1: as young as pausible.

161
00:08:30,236 --> 00:08:36,276
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So let's go back to our topic today,

162
00:08:36,316 --> 00:08:41,436
Speaker 3: which is can you train your mind to be happier? Now,

163
00:08:42,516 --> 00:08:47,796
Speaker 3: I'm sure that people attending this, you know, this conversation

164
00:08:48,356 --> 00:08:51,396
Speaker 3: are assuming that it is what does the science actually

165
00:08:51,476 --> 00:08:57,156
Speaker 3: say about whether happiness train or something that we're born with?

166
00:08:57,996 --> 00:09:00,396
Speaker 1: Well, I think the science, you know it is like,

167
00:09:00,756 --> 00:09:02,956
Speaker 1: is kind of careful about this, right, because I think

168
00:09:03,236 --> 00:09:05,156
Speaker 1: what we often want to ask a question like that

169
00:09:05,236 --> 00:09:07,876
Speaker 1: isn't either or answered like yes it can train or

170
00:09:07,916 --> 00:09:10,476
Speaker 1: it's fixed. And I think the science tells us that

171
00:09:10,836 --> 00:09:13,836
Speaker 1: it's a little bit of both, right. The question of

172
00:09:13,836 --> 00:09:16,076
Speaker 1: whether or not some of our happiness seems to be

173
00:09:16,516 --> 00:09:19,276
Speaker 1: built in, relegated to our genes, the kinds of things

174
00:09:19,316 --> 00:09:21,836
Speaker 1: we should be paying attention to. There's lots of studies,

175
00:09:21,876 --> 00:09:24,156
Speaker 1: as you well know, trying to look at this by

176
00:09:24,436 --> 00:09:27,716
Speaker 1: studying different twins, right, to try to look at whether

177
00:09:27,756 --> 00:09:30,556
Speaker 1: or not you can look to genetically similar individuals might

178
00:09:30,596 --> 00:09:33,596
Speaker 1: have different environments and ask, okay, what's playing the bigger role?

179
00:09:33,676 --> 00:09:36,036
Speaker 1: Is it our genes or is it our environments? These

180
00:09:36,036 --> 00:09:39,676
Speaker 1: are studies what's often called heritability, right, what's the percentage

181
00:09:39,716 --> 00:09:42,596
Speaker 1: of the variance in the population we can explain by

182
00:09:42,596 --> 00:09:45,396
Speaker 1: looking to someone's genes. And whenever you do those studies,

183
00:09:45,396 --> 00:09:47,996
Speaker 1: you ask the question, are identical twins who share one

184
00:09:48,076 --> 00:09:50,756
Speaker 1: hundred percent of their DNA more similar in their happiness

185
00:09:50,756 --> 00:09:53,236
Speaker 1: than say, fraternal twins who only share fifty percent of

186
00:09:53,236 --> 00:09:56,196
Speaker 1: their DNA. You often get the answer, yeah, there seems

187
00:09:56,236 --> 00:09:58,276
Speaker 1: to be more similarity and the identical twins and the

188
00:09:58,356 --> 00:10:01,676
Speaker 1: fraternal twins. There is a component of things like happiness,

189
00:10:01,756 --> 00:10:05,676
Speaker 1: our life satisfaction, our positive emotion that seems to be heritable.

190
00:10:05,956 --> 00:10:10,596
Speaker 1: But like most psychological traits, it's not a high heritability, right.

191
00:10:10,636 --> 00:10:12,196
Speaker 1: It's not that you know if you happen to be

192
00:10:12,236 --> 00:10:14,636
Speaker 1: born to your very happy parents, that you yourself are

193
00:10:14,676 --> 00:10:17,516
Speaker 1: going to be very happy. The heritability estimate is kind

194
00:10:17,516 --> 00:10:19,676
Speaker 1: of small. It's around thirty percent. What does that mean?

195
00:10:19,956 --> 00:10:22,356
Speaker 1: Means around thirty percent of the variation we see in

196
00:10:22,396 --> 00:10:25,276
Speaker 1: the population. You know, whether somebody's happy or not so happy,

197
00:10:25,276 --> 00:10:28,636
Speaker 1: it can be due to someone's genes, And that's pretty small.

198
00:10:28,956 --> 00:10:31,116
Speaker 1: So on the one hand, we get the answer of like, yeah,

199
00:10:31,156 --> 00:10:33,836
Speaker 1: some of your happiness might be built in, Right, the

200
00:10:33,956 --> 00:10:36,836
Speaker 1: variance that we see in people's happiness across society might

201
00:10:36,876 --> 00:10:39,796
Speaker 1: be due to some genes versus other genes. But that

202
00:10:39,876 --> 00:10:43,476
Speaker 1: also means there's a big window that we can change things, right.

203
00:10:43,756 --> 00:10:46,196
Speaker 1: I think the other misconception we often have about whether

204
00:10:46,196 --> 00:10:48,716
Speaker 1: we can train happiness is that we have this mistake

205
00:10:48,716 --> 00:10:52,756
Speaker 1: and assumption that our happiness is based only on our circumstances. Right,

206
00:10:52,796 --> 00:10:54,956
Speaker 1: you know, you're born in a wonderful country, and you're

207
00:10:54,996 --> 00:10:57,516
Speaker 1: incredibly rich, and you like, you know, you get into

208
00:10:57,556 --> 00:10:59,916
Speaker 1: the perfect Ivy League institution that you want to get into,

209
00:10:59,916 --> 00:11:03,116
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera, then you'll be happy. Yeah, So

210
00:11:03,196 --> 00:11:06,036
Speaker 1: often we tend to think that our circumstances matter a

211
00:11:06,076 --> 00:11:09,276
Speaker 1: ton for happiness, and they do matter some right. You know,

212
00:11:09,276 --> 00:11:11,396
Speaker 1: if you're living below the poverty line, getting more money

213
00:11:11,396 --> 00:11:13,996
Speaker 1: you might increase your level of happiness, your level of flourishing.

214
00:11:14,316 --> 00:11:16,676
Speaker 1: Or if you're living in really dire circumstances, it is

215
00:11:16,716 --> 00:11:19,876
Speaker 1: true that changing some things around might help. But for

216
00:11:19,956 --> 00:11:21,476
Speaker 1: most of the people on the call, most of the

217
00:11:21,476 --> 00:11:24,316
Speaker 1: people listening right now, changing your circumstances is not going

218
00:11:24,356 --> 00:11:26,836
Speaker 1: to matter as much as you think for kind of

219
00:11:26,956 --> 00:11:29,596
Speaker 1: moving your happiness. And so what we often think is that,

220
00:11:29,676 --> 00:11:32,836
Speaker 1: like you know, our circumstances matter a ton, they don't

221
00:11:32,876 --> 00:11:35,236
Speaker 1: matter as much as we think. It really is about

222
00:11:35,316 --> 00:11:38,236
Speaker 1: changing our behaviors and our mindsets for kind of improving

223
00:11:38,276 --> 00:11:39,436
Speaker 1: our happiness over time.

224
00:11:39,796 --> 00:11:43,396
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, so what are some of the practices that

225
00:11:43,476 --> 00:11:47,476
Speaker 3: we can do to change specifically our mindset?

226
00:11:47,796 --> 00:11:48,076
Speaker 1: Yeah?

227
00:11:48,116 --> 00:11:51,036
Speaker 3: And what are some of the practices that you teach

228
00:11:51,116 --> 00:11:52,396
Speaker 3: in class and what are some of the things that

229
00:11:52,396 --> 00:11:52,756
Speaker 3: do you do?

230
00:11:53,516 --> 00:11:53,876
Speaker 5: Yeah?

231
00:11:53,956 --> 00:11:55,636
Speaker 1: Well, I try to do all the things that I

232
00:11:55,676 --> 00:11:57,516
Speaker 1: teach in class because I find that if you're not

233
00:11:57,556 --> 00:11:59,756
Speaker 1: practicing what you preach, like, well, first of all, my

234
00:11:59,756 --> 00:12:01,996
Speaker 1: students will totally call me out on it. They'll be like, well,

235
00:12:02,036 --> 00:12:04,196
Speaker 1: you're not you know, engaging in gratitude or you're not

236
00:12:04,196 --> 00:12:06,836
Speaker 1: getting your social connections. So it's really great to have

237
00:12:06,876 --> 00:12:10,436
Speaker 1: a thousand, you know, undergraduate students around you holding you accountable,

238
00:12:10,476 --> 00:12:13,516
Speaker 1: holding the accountable exactly. But yeah, in terms of some

239
00:12:13,556 --> 00:12:15,596
Speaker 1: of the mindset changes I recommend, you know, a big

240
00:12:15,636 --> 00:12:18,756
Speaker 1: one is sort of engaging in a little bit more gratitude.

241
00:12:18,876 --> 00:12:19,036
Speaker 5: Right.

242
00:12:19,636 --> 00:12:22,316
Speaker 1: This one's really just a matter of trying to figure

243
00:12:22,316 --> 00:12:24,756
Speaker 1: out what your mind is attuned to and trying to

244
00:12:24,756 --> 00:12:26,796
Speaker 1: get it to a tune a little bit better to

245
00:12:26,876 --> 00:12:29,596
Speaker 1: the positive stuff out there, noticing the blessings rather than

246
00:12:29,636 --> 00:12:32,356
Speaker 1: the hassles. You know, there's lovely work from so new

247
00:12:32,396 --> 00:12:35,716
Speaker 1: Lupermurski and Robert Emmons and others just showing the power

248
00:12:35,756 --> 00:12:37,916
Speaker 1: of you know, simply writing down a few things that

249
00:12:37,956 --> 00:12:40,836
Speaker 1: you're grateful for every day, just noticing some noticing some

250
00:12:40,916 --> 00:12:43,316
Speaker 1: of the blessings, and studies suggest you can improve your

251
00:12:43,356 --> 00:12:46,156
Speaker 1: life satisfaction, you can improve your positive mood and so on,

252
00:12:46,516 --> 00:12:48,356
Speaker 1: and so that that, I think is like such an

253
00:12:48,356 --> 00:12:50,956
Speaker 1: easy one, right, It's just a matter of training your

254
00:12:50,956 --> 00:12:53,756
Speaker 1: brain to notice and scribble down a few things. Some

255
00:12:53,876 --> 00:12:56,556
Speaker 1: of my students find that gratitude practice a little tricky

256
00:12:56,836 --> 00:12:59,236
Speaker 1: and I think they especially find it tricky sometimes in

257
00:12:59,276 --> 00:13:00,956
Speaker 1: the world we live in right now, right where we

258
00:13:00,996 --> 00:13:02,476
Speaker 1: can look out and be like, oh, there's so many

259
00:13:02,556 --> 00:13:06,036
Speaker 1: terrible things happening, like, it can feel a little disingenuous

260
00:13:06,036 --> 00:13:08,636
Speaker 1: to focus on what you're grateful for. So I often

261
00:13:08,676 --> 00:13:11,316
Speaker 1: suggest maybe an even lighter version of the practice, where

262
00:13:11,316 --> 00:13:13,836
Speaker 1: you look out and try to find some delights out there,

263
00:13:14,276 --> 00:13:16,716
Speaker 1: you know, like the warmth of my morning coffee cup,

264
00:13:16,836 --> 00:13:18,756
Speaker 1: or you know, like like a child's laughter or a

265
00:13:18,756 --> 00:13:21,476
Speaker 1: really funny YouTube clip. Right, it's just like a delight.

266
00:13:21,516 --> 00:13:23,916
Speaker 1: It's just like a nice thing out there. And even

267
00:13:23,956 --> 00:13:26,476
Speaker 1: just the act of noticing those, I think can can

268
00:13:26,756 --> 00:13:28,996
Speaker 1: wind up training your brain away from the thing that

269
00:13:29,036 --> 00:13:31,396
Speaker 1: our brain tends to pay attention to, which is all

270
00:13:31,436 --> 00:13:34,596
Speaker 1: the negative stuff. Right. We have this terrible negativity bias

271
00:13:34,596 --> 00:13:36,756
Speaker 1: where our brains lock on to all the terrible things

272
00:13:36,756 --> 00:13:38,876
Speaker 1: out there. But if you can just kind of with

273
00:13:38,916 --> 00:13:41,556
Speaker 1: a little intention, shift your focus to the positive stuff,

274
00:13:42,236 --> 00:13:44,276
Speaker 1: you'll wind up feeling a lot better. So that's a

275
00:13:44,316 --> 00:13:47,596
Speaker 1: big that's a big mindset. One other big ones we

276
00:13:47,636 --> 00:13:50,196
Speaker 1: talk a lot about in class our behavioral changes. Right,

277
00:13:50,276 --> 00:13:53,996
Speaker 1: just stuff you can do, like like physically to achieve

278
00:13:54,036 --> 00:13:57,036
Speaker 1: more happiness, and honestly, the biggest one really is engaging

279
00:13:57,036 --> 00:14:00,156
Speaker 1: in more social connection, right, just like as you know,

280
00:14:00,236 --> 00:14:02,796
Speaker 1: tall like pretty much every available study of happy people

281
00:14:02,796 --> 00:14:05,516
Speaker 1: suggests that happy people tend to be more social, right,

282
00:14:05,596 --> 00:14:08,396
Speaker 1: whether that's more social, spending time with their friends and

283
00:14:08,436 --> 00:14:12,036
Speaker 1: family members, more social, talking to the brista at the

284
00:14:12,076 --> 00:14:15,276
Speaker 1: coffee shop, and making a little weak connection right, other

285
00:14:15,316 --> 00:14:18,396
Speaker 1: people are really a critical key to our happiness. And

286
00:14:18,476 --> 00:14:21,356
Speaker 1: so just finding time to get that social connection in,

287
00:14:21,516 --> 00:14:23,436
Speaker 1: even scheduling it if you really need to get it

288
00:14:23,476 --> 00:14:26,836
Speaker 1: in your calendar, winds up being really critical and really important.

289
00:14:27,076 --> 00:14:29,716
Speaker 1: I think also asking yourself the question of, like, in

290
00:14:29,716 --> 00:14:31,636
Speaker 1: some ways, what are the things that are interrupting your

291
00:14:31,636 --> 00:14:32,396
Speaker 1: social connection?

292
00:14:32,636 --> 00:14:32,836
Speaker 4: Right?

293
00:14:33,476 --> 00:14:35,436
Speaker 1: You know, if you're on your phone at dinner and

294
00:14:35,476 --> 00:14:38,116
Speaker 1: not talking to your spouse, that's a big opportunity cost

295
00:14:38,116 --> 00:14:40,036
Speaker 1: of some social connection you could be getting. You know,

296
00:14:40,116 --> 00:14:42,516
Speaker 1: if you're standing in line, you know, at the checkout

297
00:14:42,556 --> 00:14:44,996
Speaker 1: at the grocery store and like, you know, staring at

298
00:14:44,996 --> 00:14:47,156
Speaker 1: a screen rather than talking to the person around you

299
00:14:47,236 --> 00:14:49,796
Speaker 1: just connecting and sharing a smile, that too, is a

300
00:14:49,796 --> 00:14:52,396
Speaker 1: big opportunity cost on a kind of happiness boost you

301
00:14:52,436 --> 00:14:55,316
Speaker 1: could be getting And so I find that the committing

302
00:14:55,316 --> 00:14:57,356
Speaker 1: to the behavior of building in a little bit more

303
00:14:57,356 --> 00:15:00,236
Speaker 1: social connection can be really critical when it comes to

304
00:15:00,316 --> 00:15:01,116
Speaker 1: becoming happier.

305
00:15:01,676 --> 00:15:01,836
Speaker 6: Yeah.

306
00:15:01,956 --> 00:15:03,996
Speaker 3: And I think what's also important to think about when

307
00:15:04,076 --> 00:15:08,156
Speaker 3: we build those social connections is that micro interactions or

308
00:15:08,276 --> 00:15:10,796
Speaker 3: micro moment can make a very big difference. I mean,

309
00:15:10,876 --> 00:15:12,556
Speaker 3: you mentioned standing in line for you know, in the

310
00:15:12,836 --> 00:15:15,316
Speaker 3: grocery store. You know, it doesn't have to be and

311
00:15:15,396 --> 00:15:17,436
Speaker 3: I'm spending you know, three hours a day with my

312
00:15:17,996 --> 00:15:23,556
Speaker 3: BFFs and and I have, you know, in three days

313
00:15:23,556 --> 00:15:27,396
Speaker 3: every week fully with my with my family. Yeah. Nice, nice,

314
00:15:27,996 --> 00:15:32,916
Speaker 3: but not essential if you also have these micro moments.

315
00:15:33,036 --> 00:15:36,236
Speaker 3: And these micro moments are accessible available to us literally,

316
00:15:36,436 --> 00:15:42,556
Speaker 3: you know, every almost at every moment in the day.

317
00:15:43,236 --> 00:15:45,796
Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's shocking how easily we give those up, right,

318
00:15:45,836 --> 00:15:47,756
Speaker 1: And I think this is a big hit that we

319
00:15:47,796 --> 00:15:51,996
Speaker 1: get from our technology. One of my favorite little factoids

320
00:15:51,996 --> 00:15:53,756
Speaker 1: that came out, you know, all these changes that happen

321
00:15:53,876 --> 00:15:56,196
Speaker 1: after the iPhone and smartphones were introduced, but one of

322
00:15:56,196 --> 00:15:58,756
Speaker 1: the biggest ones that I found so striking was that

323
00:15:59,156 --> 00:16:03,756
Speaker 1: the sales of chewing gum plummeted. And you're like, why

324
00:16:03,756 --> 00:16:06,036
Speaker 1: does the sale of chewing gums matter. You know, think

325
00:16:06,076 --> 00:16:07,996
Speaker 1: back to that moment at the grocery store, when do

326
00:16:08,036 --> 00:16:10,356
Speaker 1: you tend to see the chewing gum while you're in

327
00:16:10,396 --> 00:16:12,836
Speaker 1: line and you're kind of looking around like, oh, chewing

328
00:16:13,036 --> 00:16:15,436
Speaker 1: actually gets a chewing gum my mouth, you know, your

329
00:16:15,436 --> 00:16:17,956
Speaker 1: mental ye or whatever. But that moment of you not

330
00:16:17,956 --> 00:16:19,996
Speaker 1: noticing the chewing gum in the checkout line is the

331
00:16:19,996 --> 00:16:22,356
Speaker 1: same moment that you're not noticing, you know, the smile

332
00:16:22,396 --> 00:16:24,196
Speaker 1: and the kid in the line behind you, or you

333
00:16:24,196 --> 00:16:25,916
Speaker 1: know the fact that you know someone asks like, you know,

334
00:16:25,956 --> 00:16:28,796
Speaker 1: how's your day today or something. Right, our technologies are

335
00:16:28,836 --> 00:16:32,716
Speaker 1: stealing these tiny moments of attention that before technology we

336
00:16:32,716 --> 00:16:35,436
Speaker 1: were often devoting to the people around us, and we

337
00:16:35,596 --> 00:16:39,236
Speaker 1: sort of stopped. Liz Dunn, who is another who's a

338
00:16:39,236 --> 00:16:41,716
Speaker 1: professor now at the University of British Columbia, another one

339
00:16:41,716 --> 00:16:44,196
Speaker 1: of our colleagues in graduate school back in the day.

340
00:16:44,916 --> 00:16:47,236
Speaker 1: She did this lovely study where she'd just try to

341
00:16:47,316 --> 00:16:51,076
Speaker 1: look at how much less you smile when you have

342
00:16:51,116 --> 00:16:54,036
Speaker 1: your phone around you than not. So she brings participants

343
00:16:54,036 --> 00:16:55,836
Speaker 1: into the lab, sits them in a big waiting room

344
00:16:55,956 --> 00:16:58,076
Speaker 1: and either has them with their phones or not and

345
00:16:58,116 --> 00:17:00,636
Speaker 1: she finds just you know, naturally in the waiting room,

346
00:17:00,756 --> 00:17:03,556
Speaker 1: you see thirty percent less smiling between the people that

347
00:17:03,596 --> 00:17:04,116
Speaker 1: are seeing.

348
00:17:04,796 --> 00:17:04,996
Speaker 7: Right.

349
00:17:05,196 --> 00:17:07,556
Speaker 1: I often think about that in my residential college with

350
00:17:07,596 --> 00:17:09,676
Speaker 1: all my students, right of just like how much less

351
00:17:09,676 --> 00:17:11,836
Speaker 1: smiling in the courtyard and in the dining hall there is,

352
00:17:11,876 --> 00:17:14,236
Speaker 1: just because we're all walking around looking at these screens

353
00:17:14,276 --> 00:17:16,596
Speaker 1: all the time, you know. And what's the cumulative emotional

354
00:17:16,636 --> 00:17:17,796
Speaker 1: effect of all that stuff?

355
00:17:18,236 --> 00:17:20,116
Speaker 3: Yeah? And I think the key point here is the

356
00:17:20,236 --> 00:17:23,836
Speaker 3: cumulative emotional effect because we know, you know, the what

357
00:17:23,956 --> 00:17:27,436
Speaker 3: a smile again, micro event, what a smile can do

358
00:17:27,636 --> 00:17:30,476
Speaker 3: a to us because when we smile, and you know

359
00:17:30,516 --> 00:17:33,356
Speaker 3: this from cognitive psychology, it has an effect on our

360
00:17:33,716 --> 00:17:37,836
Speaker 3: inner world as well, not to mention the mirror neurons

361
00:17:37,836 --> 00:17:40,516
Speaker 3: that when we smile, others are more likely to smile

362
00:17:40,556 --> 00:17:46,636
Speaker 3: as well. So the the loss given given that is significant.

363
00:17:47,396 --> 00:17:48,956
Speaker 1: Yeah, you talk.

364
00:17:49,116 --> 00:17:51,316
Speaker 3: You know, we talked about these you know, standing in

365
00:17:51,356 --> 00:17:54,316
Speaker 3: line or the smiles, these small events. And yet you know,

366
00:17:54,356 --> 00:17:57,956
Speaker 3: many people ask, and I often ask about the difference

367
00:17:58,036 --> 00:18:01,356
Speaker 3: between feeling happy in the moment. So when I exchange

368
00:18:01,356 --> 00:18:06,796
Speaker 3: smiles for example, versus or in addition to developing a

369
00:18:07,356 --> 00:18:11,476
Speaker 3: long lasting sense of happiness, so more of a you know,

370
00:18:11,836 --> 00:18:14,436
Speaker 3: trade versus state question.

371
00:18:15,156 --> 00:18:17,676
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, well, I think these things kind of work

372
00:18:18,076 --> 00:18:21,116
Speaker 1: as feedback loops, right, Like take the smiling example, right,

373
00:18:21,436 --> 00:18:23,756
Speaker 1: you know, if I have a little micro moment of

374
00:18:23,836 --> 00:18:26,476
Speaker 1: smiling at the barista at the coffee shop, you know,

375
00:18:26,916 --> 00:18:28,956
Speaker 1: that just gives me a sense that the world is

376
00:18:28,956 --> 00:18:32,236
Speaker 1: a friendlier place. I'm more socially connected, I like my

377
00:18:32,316 --> 00:18:35,356
Speaker 1: community more. That's a kind of in the moment feeling,

378
00:18:35,516 --> 00:18:38,236
Speaker 1: but it winds up building up to I think a

379
00:18:38,316 --> 00:18:41,396
Speaker 1: much broader kind of state attribution, right that I'm just

380
00:18:41,476 --> 00:18:44,356
Speaker 1: feeling more connected over time. And my sense is that

381
00:18:44,396 --> 00:18:47,556
Speaker 1: a lot of the micro moments wind up becoming bigger moments,

382
00:18:47,556 --> 00:18:50,116
Speaker 1: those small moments that you take, you know, to notice

383
00:18:50,116 --> 00:18:52,476
Speaker 1: something that's delightful to you or something that's a blessing

384
00:18:52,516 --> 00:18:55,356
Speaker 1: in your life, that can like pump up to become

385
00:18:55,796 --> 00:18:58,956
Speaker 1: more of a state like situation, in part because you're

386
00:18:58,956 --> 00:19:01,036
Speaker 1: doing it over and over and over again. So these

387
00:19:01,036 --> 00:19:03,636
Speaker 1: things become habits that you put into effect. So the

388
00:19:03,636 --> 00:19:05,996
Speaker 1: more you do the little things over time, the more

389
00:19:06,276 --> 00:19:09,876
Speaker 1: that becomes your life. Is what Aristotle, you know, Missy said, right,

390
00:19:09,916 --> 00:19:12,116
Speaker 1: it's our habits that kind of become what our life is.

391
00:19:12,916 --> 00:19:14,956
Speaker 1: But also I think it can kind of contribute to

392
00:19:14,996 --> 00:19:17,356
Speaker 1: a sense that your life is flourishing. Often these kind

393
00:19:17,396 --> 00:19:20,356
Speaker 1: of state moments, or sort of long term happiness assessments

394
00:19:20,396 --> 00:19:23,196
Speaker 1: are really an assessment of how is our life going right?

395
00:19:23,236 --> 00:19:25,596
Speaker 1: How satisfied am I with my life? But I think

396
00:19:25,596 --> 00:19:28,316
Speaker 1: that that satisfaction can often come from the cumulation of

397
00:19:28,356 --> 00:19:30,596
Speaker 1: a lot of these micro moments. So the micro moments

398
00:19:30,876 --> 00:19:33,516
Speaker 1: kind of wind up infecting these long term state moments,

399
00:19:33,676 --> 00:19:36,036
Speaker 1: part because they become habits over time, but in part

400
00:19:36,076 --> 00:19:39,076
Speaker 1: because I think they do change our overall interpretation of

401
00:19:39,076 --> 00:19:41,756
Speaker 1: how things are going. So those tight those investments that

402
00:19:41,836 --> 00:19:44,636
Speaker 1: feel really tiny can wind up being kind of long

403
00:19:44,756 --> 00:19:46,436
Speaker 1: term happiness investments too.

404
00:19:47,116 --> 00:19:49,276
Speaker 3: And of course the key here is to do them,

405
00:19:49,356 --> 00:19:53,356
Speaker 3: to engaging them repeatedly. Correct So it's it's not just that,

406
00:19:53,436 --> 00:19:56,756
Speaker 3: you know, I'll do my gratitude exercise today and I'll

407
00:19:56,756 --> 00:20:01,756
Speaker 3: smile at the grocery store tomorrow and then I'll live happy.

408
00:20:01,916 --> 00:20:04,636
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, push your hands together like one and done.

409
00:20:04,716 --> 00:20:04,916
Speaker 8: Yeah.

410
00:20:04,956 --> 00:20:06,516
Speaker 1: I mean, I think we understand these more in the

411
00:20:06,516 --> 00:20:08,596
Speaker 1: physical domain, you know, I mean, I would love it

412
00:20:08,636 --> 00:20:11,556
Speaker 1: if I met up with my trainer for one hard workout.

413
00:20:11,676 --> 00:20:13,636
Speaker 1: You know, my calves were sore and stuff, and then

414
00:20:13,636 --> 00:20:15,956
Speaker 1: I was good, good for a lifetime. We'd get Okay,

415
00:20:15,956 --> 00:20:18,276
Speaker 1: that's that's not going to work, right. I think in

416
00:20:18,316 --> 00:20:21,396
Speaker 1: the happiness space, we sometimes forget this right that we

417
00:20:21,596 --> 00:20:25,316
Speaker 1: can train ourselves to be happier. But it takes work,

418
00:20:25,476 --> 00:20:28,436
Speaker 1: you know, it takes constant work, And I think that's

419
00:20:28,476 --> 00:20:31,116
Speaker 1: kind of the bummer about happiness. But like it would

420
00:20:31,116 --> 00:20:32,476
Speaker 1: be nice if it was a one and done kind

421
00:20:32,476 --> 00:20:34,596
Speaker 1: of situation. But the good news is that when you

422
00:20:34,636 --> 00:20:37,516
Speaker 1: continue to put that work in, it works. You get

423
00:20:37,556 --> 00:20:40,116
Speaker 1: you wind up feeling better, feeling more satisfied with your life,

424
00:20:40,316 --> 00:20:42,956
Speaker 1: and it becomes easier as you do this stuff more

425
00:20:42,956 --> 00:20:45,476
Speaker 1: and more often. I think it's really fair to say that,

426
00:20:45,556 --> 00:20:47,356
Speaker 1: you know, before I get interested in this stuff, there

427
00:20:47,396 --> 00:20:49,996
Speaker 1: were lots of these practices that I just did not

428
00:20:50,036 --> 00:20:51,956
Speaker 1: put into effect in my own life. I tended not

429
00:20:51,996 --> 00:20:54,076
Speaker 1: to be a very grateful person. I was really much

430
00:20:54,076 --> 00:20:57,916
Speaker 1: more focused on the hassles and the bad stuff. I was,

431
00:20:57,956 --> 00:21:00,556
Speaker 1: you know, well socially connected with friends, but I definitely

432
00:21:00,556 --> 00:21:02,596
Speaker 1: wasn't the kind of person who would strike up a

433
00:21:02,596 --> 00:21:05,276
Speaker 1: conversation with a stranger. You know, I'd have my face

434
00:21:05,316 --> 00:21:08,636
Speaker 1: buried in my phone quite quickly. And as I've taught

435
00:21:08,676 --> 00:21:11,676
Speaker 1: more and more of this work, I've started engaging these

436
00:21:11,716 --> 00:21:15,236
Speaker 1: practices myself more and more, and it does become easier

437
00:21:15,236 --> 00:21:16,996
Speaker 1: over time. It just becomes the kind of thing that

438
00:21:17,076 --> 00:21:19,636
Speaker 1: you go to and that just makes it much easier.

439
00:21:20,236 --> 00:21:22,796
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again I think that the sports analogy that

440
00:21:22,876 --> 00:21:25,796
Speaker 3: you gave is spot on. It's like, you know, if

441
00:21:25,996 --> 00:21:28,876
Speaker 3: I just pick up tennis and I learned how to

442
00:21:28,956 --> 00:21:33,156
Speaker 3: hit a forehand. Initially, it's awkward and I don't do

443
00:21:33,196 --> 00:21:34,876
Speaker 3: it well, but then after a while, you know, with

444
00:21:34,956 --> 00:21:37,996
Speaker 3: a coach, I get better and better. It becomes more comfortable,

445
00:21:37,996 --> 00:21:42,196
Speaker 3: more quite literally second nature because the brain with the

446
00:21:42,956 --> 00:21:46,596
Speaker 3: neural pathways are created and it becomes a habit.

447
00:21:48,356 --> 00:21:50,556
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I think find putting in the effort

448
00:21:50,596 --> 00:21:53,636
Speaker 1: now you can recognize that even if it feels awkward

449
00:21:53,676 --> 00:21:56,836
Speaker 1: at first, you're paving a path to make it easier

450
00:21:56,836 --> 00:21:58,076
Speaker 1: for yourself, right.

451
00:21:59,076 --> 00:22:03,996
Speaker 3: Yeah, paving a path, creating a neural pathway. I've heard

452
00:22:04,036 --> 00:22:08,676
Speaker 3: you talk about the annoying features of the mind that

453
00:22:08,756 --> 00:22:13,396
Speaker 3: getting the way of happiness. What are you know some

454
00:22:13,436 --> 00:22:15,596
Speaker 3: of these annoying features that you refer to.

455
00:22:16,516 --> 00:22:19,756
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're just like features of our mind that you

456
00:22:19,756 --> 00:22:22,196
Speaker 1: know in theory are probably helpful something, but when it

457
00:22:22,196 --> 00:22:25,676
Speaker 1: comes to our happiness are kind of sucky. You know.

458
00:22:25,716 --> 00:22:27,316
Speaker 1: One of the worst ones when it comes to our

459
00:22:27,316 --> 00:22:30,076
Speaker 1: happiness is the simple fact that we get used to stuff.

460
00:22:30,156 --> 00:22:31,916
Speaker 1: It doesn't sound that bad, right, you know, you get

461
00:22:31,996 --> 00:22:34,596
Speaker 1: used to things over time. But the problem is that

462
00:22:34,636 --> 00:22:37,236
Speaker 1: we get used to the good stuff over time.

463
00:22:37,636 --> 00:22:37,796
Speaker 8: Right.

464
00:22:38,236 --> 00:22:40,876
Speaker 1: You know, you get a raise, right, you have this

465
00:22:40,956 --> 00:22:42,996
Speaker 1: new salary that you can use to buy all this stuff.

466
00:22:42,996 --> 00:22:44,276
Speaker 1: You know, maybe go out to eat and so on.

467
00:22:44,716 --> 00:22:47,676
Speaker 1: It's great at first, but over time you kind of

468
00:22:47,676 --> 00:22:50,716
Speaker 1: get used to it. You know, my Ivy League students, right,

469
00:22:50,756 --> 00:22:52,916
Speaker 1: who work so hard to get into college, they found

470
00:22:52,916 --> 00:22:55,396
Speaker 1: out they get into their dream school. First time you

471
00:22:55,396 --> 00:22:57,636
Speaker 1: announce to your parents your grandparents that you get into

472
00:22:57,676 --> 00:22:58,836
Speaker 1: your dream school, it feels great.

473
00:22:59,156 --> 00:22:59,316
Speaker 8: You know.

474
00:22:59,356 --> 00:23:01,356
Speaker 1: Time number three hundred where someone says, hey, where do

475
00:23:01,356 --> 00:23:04,476
Speaker 1: you go to college is just not as exciting anymore. This,

476
00:23:04,596 --> 00:23:06,236
Speaker 1: I think is one of the worst features of the

477
00:23:06,276 --> 00:23:09,116
Speaker 1: mind when it comes to happiness. We the best, the best,

478
00:23:09,316 --> 00:23:12,036
Speaker 1: best moment in life that, if it's repeated over time,

479
00:23:12,396 --> 00:23:15,916
Speaker 1: becomes just kind of boring. The example I always like

480
00:23:15,956 --> 00:23:17,916
Speaker 1: to give is, you know, if you're partnered up the

481
00:23:17,916 --> 00:23:21,116
Speaker 1: first time your partner said I love you, that felt great,

482
00:23:21,236 --> 00:23:23,436
Speaker 1: But you know this morning, you know, Monday morning, when

483
00:23:23,436 --> 00:23:26,196
Speaker 1: they said it, like, no, nobody cares. Right, This is

484
00:23:26,236 --> 00:23:27,956
Speaker 1: what as you know it tall A psychologists referred to

485
00:23:27,956 --> 00:23:31,476
Speaker 1: as hedonic adaptation. We just adapt to the good hedonic

486
00:23:31,476 --> 00:23:34,116
Speaker 1: stuff in life and we stop noticing it. And that

487
00:23:34,236 --> 00:23:37,356
Speaker 1: means the best circumstances can stop having a really good

488
00:23:37,356 --> 00:23:41,476
Speaker 1: impact over time, and so to truly feel the effect

489
00:23:41,556 --> 00:23:43,636
Speaker 1: of the good stuff around us, we need to do

490
00:23:43,676 --> 00:23:47,316
Speaker 1: stuff to fight hedonic adaptation. And one of the best ways,

491
00:23:47,356 --> 00:23:50,516
Speaker 1: honestly is gratitude, right, taking time to remember and notice like, hey,

492
00:23:50,556 --> 00:23:53,316
Speaker 1: hang on, like there's you know, I'm this couple of

493
00:23:53,316 --> 00:23:56,196
Speaker 1: coffee tastes great, Like this is wonderful. There's delights in

494
00:23:56,236 --> 00:23:56,596
Speaker 1: the world.

495
00:23:56,716 --> 00:23:56,916
Speaker 7: Right.

496
00:23:57,276 --> 00:24:00,196
Speaker 1: We kind of have to forcibly train our attention to

497
00:24:00,316 --> 00:24:03,436
Speaker 1: notice stuff so that we don't kind of fully adapt

498
00:24:03,476 --> 00:24:07,156
Speaker 1: to them over time. Another great way to fight hedonic

499
00:24:07,196 --> 00:24:10,436
Speaker 1: adaptation comes I know that how a studies academy focuses

500
00:24:10,436 --> 00:24:12,836
Speaker 1: a lot on history and philosophers. This is one that

501
00:24:12,876 --> 00:24:15,716
Speaker 1: comes from the stoics and one that the psychologists haven't

502
00:24:15,716 --> 00:24:20,196
Speaker 1: focused on too much. But it's the practice of negative visualization, right,

503
00:24:20,316 --> 00:24:23,676
Speaker 1: Imagine what life would be like without this thing, Not

504
00:24:23,716 --> 00:24:25,796
Speaker 1: in a terribly ruminative way that all the terrible things

505
00:24:25,836 --> 00:24:28,036
Speaker 1: are going to happen, but just you know, some wonderful

506
00:24:28,076 --> 00:24:29,956
Speaker 1: thing that's happening in your life. Just what would it

507
00:24:29,996 --> 00:24:32,916
Speaker 1: be like if that wasn't there anymore? The example I

508
00:24:32,956 --> 00:24:35,596
Speaker 1: often give in my podcast and when I'm giving toxes.

509
00:24:35,636 --> 00:24:37,836
Speaker 1: You know, if you're a parent, imagine that the last

510
00:24:37,836 --> 00:24:40,756
Speaker 1: time you saw your kid whenever that was, that was

511
00:24:40,796 --> 00:24:43,636
Speaker 1: the last time, never going to see them again. And like,

512
00:24:43,716 --> 00:24:45,156
Speaker 1: if you're a parent, my guess is you just said,

513
00:24:45,596 --> 00:24:47,196
Speaker 1: like your breath just caught in your throat. And my

514
00:24:47,236 --> 00:24:48,956
Speaker 1: guess is the next time you see your kid, just

515
00:24:48,996 --> 00:24:51,956
Speaker 1: with that short two second example, you'll hug them a

516
00:24:51,996 --> 00:24:54,996
Speaker 1: little bit more closely, right, Like, that's the power if

517
00:24:55,076 --> 00:24:57,396
Speaker 1: we if we just take a moment to realize what

518
00:24:57,436 --> 00:24:59,756
Speaker 1: it would feel like if we lost something, we can

519
00:24:59,796 --> 00:25:02,156
Speaker 1: start to appreciate the stuff we have. But all of

520
00:25:02,236 --> 00:25:04,876
Speaker 1: those are very intentional practices, right, Like all these habits

521
00:25:04,916 --> 00:25:07,276
Speaker 1: we've been talking about, you have to do that to

522
00:25:07,356 --> 00:25:10,116
Speaker 1: overcome hedonic adaptation doesn't happen naturally.

523
00:25:10,996 --> 00:25:16,596
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know. Irvin Jaalam, who's professor was professor at

524
00:25:16,636 --> 00:25:22,356
Speaker 3: Stanford psychiatrist in one of his studies, talks about how

525
00:25:22,516 --> 00:25:27,716
Speaker 3: when he interacted with terminally ill patience, they just heard

526
00:25:27,756 --> 00:25:30,956
Speaker 3: that they're about to die, say the following. They say,

527
00:25:30,996 --> 00:25:35,116
Speaker 3: for the first time in my life in a very

528
00:25:35,156 --> 00:25:38,436
Speaker 3: long time, I truly feel that I'm alive, or I

529
00:25:38,516 --> 00:25:42,996
Speaker 3: truly appreciate, you know, my loved ones, or this meal

530
00:25:43,436 --> 00:25:47,636
Speaker 3: or the miracle that's all around me. And the question

531
00:25:48,156 --> 00:25:52,956
Speaker 3: I mean that begs is do we need to wait?

532
00:25:53,916 --> 00:25:57,236
Speaker 3: Do we need to wait? Or something tragic terrible to happen?

533
00:25:57,276 --> 00:25:59,796
Speaker 3: And I think what the Stoics did is they simulated

534
00:25:59,796 --> 00:26:02,356
Speaker 3: it with that question. You know, just imagine again you

535
00:26:02,356 --> 00:26:05,276
Speaker 3: don't need to take it, you know, make it so radical.

536
00:26:05,676 --> 00:26:07,436
Speaker 3: But even if something that you enjoy, you know, I

537
00:26:07,556 --> 00:26:11,916
Speaker 3: had an amazing smoothie this morning. You know, by the way,

538
00:26:12,076 --> 00:26:15,036
Speaker 3: Laurel'll tell you this in full confidence. My next career,

539
00:26:15,116 --> 00:26:18,516
Speaker 3: I'm going to have a smoothie stall to me just

540
00:26:18,596 --> 00:26:19,396
Speaker 3: to be very good at that.

541
00:26:19,436 --> 00:26:24,276
Speaker 1: I feel like to be very fruity, very exactly, so you.

542
00:26:24,276 --> 00:26:26,756
Speaker 3: Know, I had my smoothie this morning. And now if

543
00:26:26,796 --> 00:26:30,156
Speaker 3: I imagine what if I couldn't have a smoothie anymore,

544
00:26:30,396 --> 00:26:33,196
Speaker 3: What a difference that would make in mind? Again, something small,

545
00:26:33,476 --> 00:26:36,356
Speaker 3: seemingly trivial, but it can help us be more grateful

546
00:26:36,436 --> 00:26:39,836
Speaker 3: for those seemingly trivial important things.

547
00:26:39,876 --> 00:26:39,996
Speaker 5: You know.

548
00:26:40,036 --> 00:26:43,156
Speaker 3: One of the quotes that I love, which is attributed

549
00:26:43,636 --> 00:26:45,556
Speaker 3: I don't think he actually said it, but it's attributed

550
00:26:45,636 --> 00:26:48,876
Speaker 3: to Einstein, is there are only two ways in which

551
00:26:48,916 --> 00:26:51,276
Speaker 3: you can live your life. One way to live your

552
00:26:51,396 --> 00:26:54,436
Speaker 3: life is as if nothing is a miracle. The other

553
00:26:54,796 --> 00:26:59,156
Speaker 3: is as if everything is a miracle. And that's about,

554
00:26:59,196 --> 00:27:01,396
Speaker 3: you know, savoring, not taking for granted.

555
00:27:02,076 --> 00:27:04,716
Speaker 1: And I think we all have experiences. You know, hopefully

556
00:27:05,076 --> 00:27:07,276
Speaker 1: most of the people listening right now aren't experiencing, you know,

557
00:27:07,356 --> 00:27:10,036
Speaker 1: a terminal cancer diagnosis. I think we've all had experiences

558
00:27:10,076 --> 00:27:12,756
Speaker 1: where good things have gone away and we kind of

559
00:27:12,836 --> 00:27:15,476
Speaker 1: recognize this, right, you know, Like you thought you lost

560
00:27:15,516 --> 00:27:17,356
Speaker 1: your phone, You're like, oh my gosh, my phone, and

561
00:27:17,396 --> 00:27:19,716
Speaker 1: then you find it, You're like, ah, I appreciate your

562
00:27:19,716 --> 00:27:22,076
Speaker 1: phone more. Or you know, take a situation we all

563
00:27:22,356 --> 00:27:25,236
Speaker 1: went through not that long ago, right, COVID Right, I

564
00:27:25,436 --> 00:27:27,916
Speaker 1: remember in the depths of like Spring of twenty twenty

565
00:27:27,996 --> 00:27:29,556
Speaker 1: that I was like, oh my gosh, if I could

566
00:27:29,636 --> 00:27:32,236
Speaker 1: just go to the movies again, I will love being

567
00:27:32,356 --> 00:27:34,316
Speaker 1: get them. If I could just go to a restaurant again,

568
00:27:34,356 --> 00:27:36,956
Speaker 1: I will love being a restaurant so much. You know,

569
00:27:37,076 --> 00:27:39,356
Speaker 1: Sadly it doesn't stick around, right, But so even just

570
00:27:39,476 --> 00:27:41,436
Speaker 1: remembering that, you know, if I go to a restaurant

571
00:27:41,476 --> 00:27:44,316
Speaker 1: later tonight, I'll think, oh my gosh, this this isn't guaranteed.

572
00:27:44,396 --> 00:27:46,236
Speaker 1: None of this stuff is guaranteed. In some ways, it

573
00:27:46,316 --> 00:27:48,996
Speaker 1: is a miracle that we get to enjoy all these

574
00:27:49,076 --> 00:27:51,756
Speaker 1: kind of cool things. So yeah, getting back in the

575
00:27:51,796 --> 00:27:55,996
Speaker 1: attitude of noticing that and savoring it can be so powerful.

576
00:27:56,956 --> 00:27:59,436
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, as you were talking, I'm thinking about

577
00:27:59,476 --> 00:28:02,996
Speaker 3: one of the main ideas that we talk about in

578
00:28:03,196 --> 00:28:07,516
Speaker 3: the Happiness Studies Academy, whether it's in our short programs

579
00:28:07,556 --> 00:28:12,036
Speaker 3: in our MA pro gram is around the three hours

580
00:28:12,076 --> 00:28:15,396
Speaker 3: of change, and the three hours of change are the

581
00:28:15,476 --> 00:28:20,196
Speaker 3: first r is reminders. So we need to remind ourselves

582
00:28:20,276 --> 00:28:23,076
Speaker 3: to express gratitude, We need to remind ourselves to you know,

583
00:28:23,196 --> 00:28:25,196
Speaker 3: go out and you know and meet someone. And these

584
00:28:25,276 --> 00:28:28,116
Speaker 3: reminders can come in the form of you know, our

585
00:28:28,196 --> 00:28:30,876
Speaker 3: phone reminding us. It can be a picture on the wall,

586
00:28:31,356 --> 00:28:34,116
Speaker 3: it can be a bracelet that that we wear and

587
00:28:34,196 --> 00:28:38,156
Speaker 3: reminds us of something like being mindful or present or kind.

588
00:28:39,556 --> 00:28:42,876
Speaker 3: But we need those reminders. Second after reminders, we need

589
00:28:42,956 --> 00:28:46,876
Speaker 3: repetition because, as you know you pointed out, not enough

590
00:28:47,196 --> 00:28:49,796
Speaker 3: to you know, one and done. We need to do

591
00:28:49,876 --> 00:28:53,596
Speaker 3: it again and again. And then if we do the

592
00:28:53,676 --> 00:28:55,196
Speaker 3: first two, then we get to the you know, the

593
00:28:55,396 --> 00:28:58,876
Speaker 3: sort of the promised land of change, which is rituals,

594
00:28:59,716 --> 00:29:02,236
Speaker 3: the third hour, or a habit. And you know, I

595
00:29:02,356 --> 00:29:07,716
Speaker 3: love the quote by John Dryden, a British philosopher poets,

596
00:29:07,716 --> 00:29:11,156
Speaker 3: who said, we first make our habits, and then our

597
00:29:11,236 --> 00:29:16,996
Speaker 3: habits make us and that's when it becomes second nature.

598
00:29:17,036 --> 00:29:19,036
Speaker 3: And again second nature, you know, whether it's to brushing

599
00:29:19,076 --> 00:29:22,636
Speaker 3: your teeth or saying hello and smiling to a person

600
00:29:22,716 --> 00:29:24,636
Speaker 3: you see on the street, these are all habits we

601
00:29:24,716 --> 00:29:26,356
Speaker 3: can cultivate and form.

602
00:29:27,356 --> 00:29:29,476
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think you know what it's really worth

603
00:29:29,556 --> 00:29:31,956
Speaker 1: remembering how important it is to kind of create those

604
00:29:32,036 --> 00:29:34,556
Speaker 1: habits over time. I mean, the data just really show

605
00:29:34,636 --> 00:29:36,676
Speaker 1: that by engaging in these kind of practices more and

606
00:29:36,756 --> 00:29:40,196
Speaker 1: more often, you really can change your overall happiness.

607
00:29:40,276 --> 00:29:40,396
Speaker 5: Right.

608
00:29:40,436 --> 00:29:42,196
Speaker 1: You know, so many of those statistics we talked about

609
00:29:42,236 --> 00:29:44,756
Speaker 1: when we started, like, we don't that doesn't need to

610
00:29:44,796 --> 00:29:46,756
Speaker 1: be that way, right. There are things that we can

611
00:29:46,836 --> 00:29:50,356
Speaker 1: do as individuals and rituals we can set up as

612
00:29:50,436 --> 00:29:54,396
Speaker 1: societies to try to fix that. Yeah, you're listening to

613
00:29:54,476 --> 00:29:57,196
Speaker 1: my conversation with doctor tal Ben Shahar of the Happiness

614
00:29:57,196 --> 00:29:59,916
Speaker 1: Studies Academy. We'll be back after the break.

615
00:30:03,596 --> 00:30:05,556
Speaker 3: Okay, final question and then we'll open it up. I

616
00:30:05,596 --> 00:30:10,116
Speaker 3: see there are many hands up. So in if in

617
00:30:10,236 --> 00:30:13,956
Speaker 3: any way at all has your work in cognitive psychology

618
00:30:14,596 --> 00:30:16,396
Speaker 3: informed your current work.

619
00:30:17,436 --> 00:30:20,836
Speaker 1: Yeah, so kind of psychology broadly, I think has really

620
00:30:20,916 --> 00:30:23,516
Speaker 1: helped me understand so many of the different studies in

621
00:30:23,636 --> 00:30:26,756
Speaker 1: happiness science. Right, in a very particular way, which is

622
00:30:26,836 --> 00:30:30,356
Speaker 1: that I think cognitively speaking, we get happiness wrong.

623
00:30:30,676 --> 00:30:30,796
Speaker 5: Right.

624
00:30:31,076 --> 00:30:32,996
Speaker 1: The way we think about what it means to be

625
00:30:33,076 --> 00:30:36,156
Speaker 1: happy isn't really the way happiness works, right.

626
00:30:36,916 --> 00:30:37,076
Speaker 5: You know.

627
00:30:37,156 --> 00:30:40,516
Speaker 1: We assume we need to change our circumstances to be happier. No,

628
00:30:40,876 --> 00:30:42,836
Speaker 1: not so much like we just really need to change

629
00:30:42,836 --> 00:30:44,116
Speaker 1: our behaviors in our mindsets.

630
00:30:44,276 --> 00:30:44,396
Speaker 5: Right.

631
00:30:44,756 --> 00:30:46,836
Speaker 1: We assume that what we need to do is to

632
00:30:46,916 --> 00:30:49,716
Speaker 1: get more and more money, but in practice, like we

633
00:30:49,796 --> 00:30:53,196
Speaker 1: don't actually need that stuff. I think, you know, one

634
00:30:53,396 --> 00:30:56,076
Speaker 1: path to happiness is really to overcome a lot of

635
00:30:56,116 --> 00:30:59,636
Speaker 1: the misconceptions we have about how happiness works. You know,

636
00:30:59,636 --> 00:31:02,236
Speaker 1: I often tell my students that our minds lie to us,

637
00:31:02,596 --> 00:31:04,156
Speaker 1: and then we have to kind of fight those lies

638
00:31:04,236 --> 00:31:06,116
Speaker 1: to do a little bit better. And you know, a

639
00:31:06,156 --> 00:31:08,716
Speaker 1: lot of those lies are the beliefs we have about happiness,

640
00:31:08,756 --> 00:31:11,116
Speaker 1: how we think about happiness, and so on. So, yeah,

641
00:31:11,156 --> 00:31:13,836
Speaker 1: I think cognition matters a lot for happiness. I'm curious

642
00:31:14,236 --> 00:31:18,076
Speaker 1: how you've applied your organizational behavior training to studies of happiness.

643
00:31:18,116 --> 00:31:18,956
Speaker 6: What have you learned?

644
00:31:18,956 --> 00:31:20,196
Speaker 1: If I get to ask the question.

645
00:31:21,356 --> 00:31:24,676
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course. So you know, on my wall as

646
00:31:24,836 --> 00:31:28,036
Speaker 3: reminders of you know, the important things and the values

647
00:31:28,076 --> 00:31:32,196
Speaker 3: in my people I care about and who care about me.

648
00:31:32,276 --> 00:31:37,836
Speaker 3: And one of those pictures is Richard Hackman, whom you remember.

649
00:31:37,956 --> 00:31:40,076
Speaker 3: So he was on the fifteenth floor. He was, you know,

650
00:31:40,236 --> 00:31:46,116
Speaker 3: my mentor and supervisor. And Richard Hackman, who was an

651
00:31:46,196 --> 00:31:51,276
Speaker 3: organizational behaviorist, said to us the following He said, if

652
00:31:51,356 --> 00:31:54,116
Speaker 3: you really want to understand the phenomenon and want to

653
00:31:54,196 --> 00:31:57,956
Speaker 3: be able to change that phenomenon, you have to understand

654
00:31:57,996 --> 00:32:00,876
Speaker 3: it at multiple levels. So even though he was an

655
00:32:00,956 --> 00:32:05,236
Speaker 3: organizational behaviorist, he said, look at the neurons, look at

656
00:32:05,276 --> 00:32:10,956
Speaker 3: the individual, look at the interaction, the interpersonal, look at

657
00:32:10,996 --> 00:32:14,476
Speaker 3: the group, and look at the organization. So in order

658
00:32:14,556 --> 00:32:18,476
Speaker 3: to understand any phenomenon, and again happiness being no exception,

659
00:32:19,116 --> 00:32:22,956
Speaker 3: you need to look at all those levels. As a

660
00:32:23,036 --> 00:32:28,676
Speaker 3: result of his teachings, I created the Happiness Studies Academy

661
00:32:28,796 --> 00:32:35,676
Speaker 3: around the interdisciplinary approach. So yes, our students learn cognitive,

662
00:32:35,756 --> 00:32:41,236
Speaker 3: psichology and neuroscience, and they learn about organizations as well

663
00:32:41,316 --> 00:32:44,596
Speaker 3: as nations. So one of the first classes is about

664
00:32:44,636 --> 00:32:49,916
Speaker 3: systems thinking. And systems thinking is that about understanding the minute,

665
00:32:50,436 --> 00:32:56,036
Speaker 3: the micro details and the large the macro information.

666
00:32:57,036 --> 00:32:58,876
Speaker 1: That's so important because I think, I think this is

667
00:32:58,916 --> 00:33:02,116
Speaker 1: another spot where we can get happiness wrong. I sometimes

668
00:33:02,156 --> 00:33:04,676
Speaker 1: get critiques from students about, you know, the fact that

669
00:33:04,756 --> 00:33:06,596
Speaker 1: we often talk about, well, here's the behaviors in the

670
00:33:06,636 --> 00:33:09,716
Speaker 1: mindsets that you can change as an individual, right, And

671
00:33:09,756 --> 00:33:11,836
Speaker 1: I think that that can mistakenly get folks to think

672
00:33:11,836 --> 00:33:14,036
Speaker 1: that that's the only path to happiness.

673
00:33:14,156 --> 00:33:14,276
Speaker 9: Right.

674
00:33:14,396 --> 00:33:16,236
Speaker 1: You know, if you're in a dead end, a job

675
00:33:16,356 --> 00:33:17,996
Speaker 1: that's not paying you a lot, of money. If you're

676
00:33:17,996 --> 00:33:20,156
Speaker 1: in an awful situation, if you're in a system that's

677
00:33:20,236 --> 00:33:22,556
Speaker 1: really not allowing you to flourish very well, it's like, well,

678
00:33:22,716 --> 00:33:24,716
Speaker 1: just write in your gratitude journal and it'll be okay.

679
00:33:25,236 --> 00:33:27,476
Speaker 1: I think we forget that we should be intervening on

680
00:33:27,676 --> 00:33:31,636
Speaker 1: multiple levels of analysis. Definitely the structural levels too, because

681
00:33:31,676 --> 00:33:34,196
Speaker 1: of course when you're interviewe on a whole organization, it

682
00:33:34,236 --> 00:33:36,796
Speaker 1: makes it easier for all the individuals in the organization

683
00:33:36,956 --> 00:33:38,196
Speaker 1: to flourish better too.

684
00:33:38,956 --> 00:33:42,396
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, there's a wonderful book that I know, Malcolm

685
00:33:42,436 --> 00:33:45,516
Speaker 3: Gladwell swears by, which is called The Person in the

686
00:33:45,596 --> 00:33:49,476
Speaker 3: Situation that talks about how again you have to look

687
00:33:49,556 --> 00:33:52,076
Speaker 3: to understand something, you have to look at the different levels,

688
00:33:52,396 --> 00:33:58,556
Speaker 3: the environment and the individual. All right, I have to

689
00:33:58,676 --> 00:34:04,036
Speaker 3: curb my enthusiasm here and call on our wonderful community.

690
00:34:04,236 --> 00:34:09,436
Speaker 3: So Sandy, please everyone, if you can make your your

691
00:34:09,516 --> 00:34:12,156
Speaker 3: questions sing short so that we can get through as

692
00:34:12,196 --> 00:34:13,396
Speaker 3: many as possible.

693
00:34:14,116 --> 00:34:15,916
Speaker 6: This is this is a question for both of you,

694
00:34:16,156 --> 00:34:21,036
Speaker 6: tell and and Lourie. You know, you were talking about systems,

695
00:34:21,076 --> 00:34:26,316
Speaker 6: and you were talking about the environment and the conditions

696
00:34:26,356 --> 00:34:31,356
Speaker 6: around the subjects that all be obviously influence in happiness,

697
00:34:31,436 --> 00:34:34,796
Speaker 6: and you were also talking about the importance of connection

698
00:34:35,556 --> 00:34:39,556
Speaker 6: and micro moments smiles, knowlogy.

699
00:34:40,596 --> 00:34:44,596
Speaker 10: Kind of blocking this. So my question is around that,

700
00:34:45,596 --> 00:34:46,756
Speaker 10: what do you think, both of.

701
00:34:46,836 --> 00:34:52,196
Speaker 6: You about what we need to do talking about systems,

702
00:34:52,876 --> 00:34:58,756
Speaker 6: you know, social systems two to improve and to prevent

703
00:34:59,516 --> 00:35:02,876
Speaker 6: what we already see going on, you know, since twenty

704
00:35:03,836 --> 00:35:08,356
Speaker 6: ten and the social media and the screens that is

705
00:35:08,476 --> 00:35:11,596
Speaker 6: setting our brains for unhappiness.

706
00:35:11,796 --> 00:35:17,036
Speaker 10: It's it's creating habits that we know will make us unhappy.

707
00:35:17,436 --> 00:35:20,796
Speaker 10: And I think that is a teamwork.

708
00:35:21,196 --> 00:35:23,996
Speaker 6: As you say, it's not only it doesn't have to

709
00:35:24,036 --> 00:35:29,276
Speaker 6: do only with individual discipline, but because it is so

710
00:35:29,956 --> 00:35:33,436
Speaker 6: ingrained and even more with AI, it's going to become

711
00:35:33,556 --> 00:35:37,516
Speaker 6: even more ingrained and have the fantasy of connecting or

712
00:35:37,596 --> 00:35:40,276
Speaker 6: having someone that cares about us with you know, the

713
00:35:40,356 --> 00:35:41,716
Speaker 6: AI things.

714
00:35:43,796 --> 00:35:45,716
Speaker 10: What can we do that I think it's urgent.

715
00:35:46,236 --> 00:35:48,636
Speaker 6: What would you think we could do as a society,

716
00:35:49,116 --> 00:35:52,756
Speaker 6: as a team to prevent these from going even worse?

717
00:35:53,756 --> 00:35:56,836
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean I'm interested to hear tas the answer,

718
00:35:56,916 --> 00:35:58,996
Speaker 1: but I'll mention kind of two things. I mean, there's

719
00:35:59,036 --> 00:36:00,156
Speaker 1: many more that we could talk about.

720
00:36:00,236 --> 00:36:00,316
Speaker 8: Right.

721
00:36:00,756 --> 00:36:03,076
Speaker 1: One is I think we need to find ways to

722
00:36:03,396 --> 00:36:07,516
Speaker 1: perhaps regulate and curb the spaces where we're using our technologies,

723
00:36:08,236 --> 00:36:11,356
Speaker 1: while at the same time I'm building spaces where it's

724
00:36:11,476 --> 00:36:15,436
Speaker 1: much easier to interact socially. So I think structurally, on

725
00:36:15,516 --> 00:36:19,556
Speaker 1: the second point, we need more spaces. The political scientist

726
00:36:19,676 --> 00:36:22,716
Speaker 1: Robert Putnam another person that ton I probably interacted with

727
00:36:22,836 --> 00:36:24,596
Speaker 1: back when we were in school. Back in the day

728
00:36:24,596 --> 00:36:27,996
Speaker 1: as grad students, talked about this idea of third spaces.

729
00:36:28,396 --> 00:36:30,596
Speaker 1: These are places that are not home and not work,

730
00:36:30,956 --> 00:36:34,236
Speaker 1: where you can get together and interact with people from

731
00:36:34,276 --> 00:36:36,716
Speaker 1: all different walks of life. Ideally, you don't even have

732
00:36:36,796 --> 00:36:40,316
Speaker 1: to buy something there, right. Putnam talked about how third

733
00:36:40,356 --> 00:36:43,396
Speaker 1: spaces really flourished in the US back in the nineteen fifties,

734
00:36:43,436 --> 00:36:46,476
Speaker 1: where there were rotary clubs and churches and sports leagues

735
00:36:46,516 --> 00:36:49,356
Speaker 1: and bowling alleys where everyone could get together and kind

736
00:36:49,396 --> 00:36:52,396
Speaker 1: of hang out with one another. Not so much anymore.

737
00:36:52,756 --> 00:36:54,916
Speaker 1: I really think we need to think and kind of

738
00:36:55,196 --> 00:36:57,796
Speaker 1: energize our approach to building those kinds of spaces to

739
00:36:57,876 --> 00:37:00,556
Speaker 1: make it easier to interact in real life. At the

740
00:37:00,596 --> 00:37:02,796
Speaker 1: same time, I think we need to figure out ways

741
00:37:02,876 --> 00:37:06,956
Speaker 1: to get of avoid the temptation of interacting on our phones.

742
00:37:06,996 --> 00:37:08,876
Speaker 1: And I think this is something I think about a

743
00:37:08,916 --> 00:37:12,316
Speaker 1: lot in the school setting right where we know, of course,

744
00:37:12,436 --> 00:37:14,716
Speaker 1: like having your phone out is probably impacting say my

745
00:37:14,796 --> 00:37:17,836
Speaker 1: college students or even younger students' ability to learn, but

746
00:37:17,956 --> 00:37:20,516
Speaker 1: I worry more about it it's impact on their ability

747
00:37:20,596 --> 00:37:23,636
Speaker 1: to be social in the dining hall, hanging out with others,

748
00:37:23,916 --> 00:37:26,116
Speaker 1: you know, in the school yard and so on. And

749
00:37:26,236 --> 00:37:29,756
Speaker 1: so I think that we really need to take seriously

750
00:37:29,876 --> 00:37:32,436
Speaker 1: the idea of kind of getting phones out of schools

751
00:37:32,716 --> 00:37:35,396
Speaker 1: right or even having time limits on phones at schools,

752
00:37:35,716 --> 00:37:37,356
Speaker 1: And I think this is the spot we're doing it,

753
00:37:37,596 --> 00:37:40,596
Speaker 1: like system wide can be really helpful. It's so hard

754
00:37:40,636 --> 00:37:42,516
Speaker 1: as a parent of a teenager to be like, you know,

755
00:37:42,636 --> 00:37:44,876
Speaker 1: for your flourishing, I'm going to limit your phone use

756
00:37:44,956 --> 00:37:47,876
Speaker 1: when all their friends have access to phones. But if

757
00:37:47,916 --> 00:37:50,676
Speaker 1: a whole school says, hey, no phones until fifteen, or

758
00:37:50,716 --> 00:37:53,716
Speaker 1: no phones until sixteen, it just makes it easier because

759
00:37:53,756 --> 00:37:55,796
Speaker 1: there's not the fear of missing out that you have

760
00:37:55,996 --> 00:37:57,876
Speaker 1: is the one individual trying to do this. And so

761
00:37:58,236 --> 00:38:00,676
Speaker 1: I think as we think about kind of adjusting our

762
00:38:00,716 --> 00:38:03,636
Speaker 1: spaces so that our temptation to use our screens and

763
00:38:03,676 --> 00:38:06,156
Speaker 1: our technology is not as high, just going to make

764
00:38:06,156 --> 00:38:08,876
Speaker 1: it easier to engage in more social connection in real life.

765
00:38:10,676 --> 00:38:13,356
Speaker 3: It's all curious with Yeah, thank you, Laurie. So I'll

766
00:38:13,396 --> 00:38:17,916
Speaker 3: second and third everything that that you said. I had

767
00:38:17,956 --> 00:38:21,876
Speaker 3: a bit of a how moment around this uh a

768
00:38:21,956 --> 00:38:24,156
Speaker 3: couple of years ago. And I know many in now

769
00:38:24,196 --> 00:38:32,916
Speaker 3: community know Udi, who's member of the HSA community. And

770
00:38:33,356 --> 00:38:36,156
Speaker 3: I told him about all the limitations that I was

771
00:38:36,276 --> 00:38:40,436
Speaker 3: putting on, you know, screen time. And I said, it's challenging,

772
00:38:40,516 --> 00:38:42,556
Speaker 3: but you know it's it's a it's a fight worth,

773
00:38:43,276 --> 00:38:47,316
Speaker 3: it's a battle worth, you know, fighting and and and

774
00:38:47,676 --> 00:38:49,836
Speaker 3: after a few minutes after I told him about all

775
00:38:49,876 --> 00:38:52,796
Speaker 3: the restrictions and limitations, he said, you know, you've you're

776
00:38:52,836 --> 00:38:55,276
Speaker 3: a positive psychologist, but until now you just talked about

777
00:38:55,356 --> 00:38:57,876
Speaker 3: all the no's, you know, what they don't do. How

778
00:38:57,916 --> 00:39:03,716
Speaker 3: about some yess in other words, finding positive alternatives too?

779
00:39:04,156 --> 00:39:06,876
Speaker 3: To the phone and you and you talked about, you know,

780
00:39:06,996 --> 00:39:10,996
Speaker 3: Putnam talked about those spaces that are pleasant, that are enjoyed,

781
00:39:11,036 --> 00:39:14,316
Speaker 3: that people want to go to. And I think one

782
00:39:14,356 --> 00:39:19,156
Speaker 3: of the most important yes is today, especially for well

783
00:39:19,236 --> 00:39:22,636
Speaker 3: for all of us, but certainly for kids. It's the

784
00:39:23,356 --> 00:39:28,596
Speaker 3: it's sports athletics, because you know, when they're playing basketball

785
00:39:28,676 --> 00:39:31,156
Speaker 3: with one another, they're not on the phone, nor are

786
00:39:31,196 --> 00:39:36,076
Speaker 3: they complaining that they're not on the phone in something

787
00:39:36,116 --> 00:39:39,836
Speaker 3: which is helping. Not you mentioned all the other benefits associated.

788
00:39:39,236 --> 00:39:39,396
Speaker 5: You know.

789
00:39:39,436 --> 00:39:44,396
Speaker 3: So it's the social, it's the physical, it's it's resilience

790
00:39:44,756 --> 00:39:47,876
Speaker 3: that they cultivate through through sports. So I would put

791
00:39:47,916 --> 00:39:54,076
Speaker 3: a lot more emphasis on sports in schools, in homes.

792
00:39:54,716 --> 00:39:55,116
Speaker 1: I love that.

793
00:39:55,316 --> 00:40:00,036
Speaker 3: I love that, all right, thank you, Sandy, Christina.

794
00:40:01,676 --> 00:40:07,956
Speaker 7: Good morning, jo Or Santos, and Hi everybody. I just

795
00:40:08,116 --> 00:40:14,076
Speaker 7: came back from we passional retreat where we stayed in

796
00:40:14,316 --> 00:40:21,916
Speaker 7: silence completely ten hours meditation and so you can imagine

797
00:40:21,956 --> 00:40:25,796
Speaker 7: it was not so easy, and we completely we were

798
00:40:26,236 --> 00:40:30,316
Speaker 7: really strangers. We didn't know each other, but we spent

799
00:40:30,836 --> 00:40:35,316
Speaker 7: time close to each other. And at the end we

800
00:40:35,476 --> 00:40:40,036
Speaker 7: had this wonderful teacher, Carlos Sophiale is very good, quite

801
00:40:40,116 --> 00:40:44,436
Speaker 7: famous in Europe, and at the end we made a

802
00:40:44,876 --> 00:40:49,396
Speaker 7: heart meditation in which we just looked at each other

803
00:40:50,196 --> 00:40:55,876
Speaker 7: straight in the eyes with the hand on our art

804
00:40:57,236 --> 00:41:01,436
Speaker 7: and it was one of the most incredible experiences.

805
00:41:01,756 --> 00:41:01,996
Speaker 5: Wow.

806
00:41:03,436 --> 00:41:08,076
Speaker 8: So I just like to ask you in your experience

807
00:41:08,676 --> 00:41:14,516
Speaker 8: during these years. How much important do you put on

808
00:41:16,036 --> 00:41:17,596
Speaker 8: cultivating this kind of.

809
00:41:19,996 --> 00:41:25,876
Speaker 7: Practices meditations, yoga, how important are they?

810
00:41:26,716 --> 00:41:30,116
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think those kinds of practices, from

811
00:41:30,196 --> 00:41:32,596
Speaker 1: meditation to yoga, do a bunch of things that are

812
00:41:32,676 --> 00:41:35,996
Speaker 1: very relevant for cultivating a mindset that's relevant to happiness. Right,

813
00:41:36,876 --> 00:41:41,236
Speaker 1: most of those practices engage in some form of mindfulness, right,

814
00:41:41,716 --> 00:41:44,996
Speaker 1: being present in the present moment, hopefully in a way

815
00:41:45,076 --> 00:41:47,036
Speaker 1: that's kind of non judgmental. So you're not in the

816
00:41:47,036 --> 00:41:49,276
Speaker 1: present moment I hate this, I hate this, You're kind

817
00:41:49,276 --> 00:41:53,156
Speaker 1: of non judgmentally accepting the present moment. And there's tons

818
00:41:53,196 --> 00:41:56,476
Speaker 1: of studies showing the importance of that, not just for

819
00:41:56,636 --> 00:41:59,956
Speaker 1: kind of experiencing more positive emotions, feelings of contentment, and

820
00:41:59,996 --> 00:42:03,516
Speaker 1: so on, but also for things like decreasing craving over time.

821
00:42:03,996 --> 00:42:07,796
Speaker 1: One of the most interesting kind of remedies for substance

822
00:42:07,876 --> 00:42:10,916
Speaker 1: use disorders is through these practices of radical acceptance of

823
00:42:10,996 --> 00:42:13,356
Speaker 1: craving and so on. So I think these practices of

824
00:42:13,436 --> 00:42:16,716
Speaker 1: mindfulness can be incredibly powerful. But a second thing that

825
00:42:16,836 --> 00:42:20,316
Speaker 1: the particular form of mindfulness that you describe, the sort

826
00:42:20,316 --> 00:42:23,076
Speaker 1: of heart meditation can do is to allow us to

827
00:42:23,156 --> 00:42:26,436
Speaker 1: experience another mindset that we know is really important for happiness,

828
00:42:26,476 --> 00:42:29,676
Speaker 1: which is the mindset of compassion, right, kind of having

829
00:42:29,756 --> 00:42:32,836
Speaker 1: these positive feelings for other people, wishing them well and

830
00:42:32,956 --> 00:42:36,116
Speaker 1: so on. And there's studies from Tanya Singer's lab and

831
00:42:36,196 --> 00:42:39,476
Speaker 1: others showing that practices like loving kindness, meditation, really wishing

832
00:42:39,876 --> 00:42:42,556
Speaker 1: to others, may you be happy, may you be safe,

833
00:42:42,636 --> 00:42:46,156
Speaker 1: and so on, are incredible ways to feel good ourselves.

834
00:42:46,756 --> 00:42:48,876
Speaker 1: And this comes from work that I know everyone in

835
00:42:48,916 --> 00:42:51,636
Speaker 1: Happiness Studies Academy talks about a lot, which is doing

836
00:42:51,756 --> 00:42:54,956
Speaker 1: nice things for other people, having positive wishes towards the

837
00:42:55,076 --> 00:42:57,196
Speaker 1: nice things for other people. Those are the kinds of

838
00:42:57,236 --> 00:42:59,996
Speaker 1: things that wind up making us happier. And so yeah,

839
00:42:59,996 --> 00:43:02,356
Speaker 1: I think that these practices of meditation and mindfulness can

840
00:43:02,396 --> 00:43:05,076
Speaker 1: be incredibly powerful, not even just in one way, but

841
00:43:05,636 --> 00:43:08,516
Speaker 1: because they allow us to cultivate these mindsets that tap

842
00:43:08,636 --> 00:43:11,596
Speaker 1: into so many different tinier practices that can be good

843
00:43:11,636 --> 00:43:12,156
Speaker 1: for our flour.

844
00:43:13,396 --> 00:43:14,236
Speaker 8: Thank you so much.

845
00:43:15,076 --> 00:43:19,556
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank thank you, Laurie. And you know, I think

846
00:43:19,596 --> 00:43:26,236
Speaker 3: about this the you know, the heartfelt experience a lot.

847
00:43:26,396 --> 00:43:29,156
Speaker 3: I think For me, I've been doing the gratitude exercise

848
00:43:29,196 --> 00:43:31,756
Speaker 3: since the nineteenth of September nineteen ninety nine.

849
00:43:32,876 --> 00:43:34,796
Speaker 1: My track record is not nearly as good.

850
00:43:34,956 --> 00:43:38,116
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, but I did it, you know, as you recall,

851
00:43:38,196 --> 00:43:40,476
Speaker 3: you know, Emmons and mccuff did their research in two

852
00:43:40,516 --> 00:43:44,636
Speaker 3: thousand and three. But I learned about the Gratitude Journal

853
00:43:44,716 --> 00:43:48,356
Speaker 3: from Oprah. Of course, you know, we talked about it then,

854
00:43:48,796 --> 00:43:50,276
Speaker 3: and I was thinking, and I was watching one of

855
00:43:50,316 --> 00:43:52,196
Speaker 3: our shows, and I was thinking, well, what a nice idea.

856
00:43:52,676 --> 00:43:54,516
Speaker 3: And I tried it, and of course, you know, having

857
00:43:54,596 --> 00:43:59,716
Speaker 3: looked back and that it really upgraded my experience of

858
00:44:00,796 --> 00:44:04,516
Speaker 3: the very simple gratitude exercise is Barbara Fredericson's work on

859
00:44:04,796 --> 00:44:08,116
Speaker 3: heartfelt positivity. So it's not just going through the motion

860
00:44:08,276 --> 00:44:11,756
Speaker 3: and writing what I'm grateful for. It's yes, it's writing

861
00:44:11,796 --> 00:44:13,796
Speaker 3: and then maybe closing my eyes and think, okay, so

862
00:44:14,276 --> 00:44:18,476
Speaker 3: what does my daughter mean to me? Or you know,

863
00:44:18,716 --> 00:44:22,236
Speaker 3: what does the smile that I receive today mean to me?

864
00:44:22,316 --> 00:44:26,636
Speaker 3: So really experiencing those things that I write down in

865
00:44:26,756 --> 00:44:30,316
Speaker 3: the heart and that can make all the difference, because

866
00:44:30,436 --> 00:44:34,956
Speaker 3: in many ways that is also an antidote to hedonic adaptation.

867
00:44:35,596 --> 00:44:38,916
Speaker 1: You're really savoring it, you're experiencing it. And I think

868
00:44:38,956 --> 00:44:40,876
Speaker 1: this is so critical. I see this in my students, right,

869
00:44:40,916 --> 00:44:44,116
Speaker 1: we assign them these practices of engaging in gratitude journaling

870
00:44:44,156 --> 00:44:46,756
Speaker 1: and so on, and like so many things in their lives,

871
00:44:46,796 --> 00:44:48,036
Speaker 1: I feel like they're kind of dial like it. And

872
00:44:48,076 --> 00:44:49,796
Speaker 1: it's like you know, my parents, my grades, you know,

873
00:44:50,116 --> 00:44:52,276
Speaker 1: food and water, whatever, you know, health, you know, just

874
00:44:52,356 --> 00:44:54,716
Speaker 1: like you can kind of do your gratitude journal like that,

875
00:44:55,156 --> 00:44:56,316
Speaker 1: or you could do it in a way where you

876
00:44:56,396 --> 00:44:58,596
Speaker 1: ask yourself, you know, how does it truly make me

877
00:44:58,676 --> 00:45:00,636
Speaker 1: feel the love I feel for my parents? Like what

878
00:45:00,636 --> 00:45:01,956
Speaker 1: would it feel like to not have them?

879
00:45:01,996 --> 00:45:02,276
Speaker 5: And so on?

880
00:45:02,676 --> 00:45:04,996
Speaker 1: That moment of savoring, that moment of noticing can be

881
00:45:05,116 --> 00:45:07,796
Speaker 1: so powerful. All in one other practice that I think

882
00:45:07,836 --> 00:45:11,236
Speaker 1: we should all squeeze into our gratitude practices to kind of,

883
00:45:11,316 --> 00:45:13,676
Speaker 1: you know, like supersize them in terms of their impact.

884
00:45:14,556 --> 00:45:17,756
Speaker 1: And that's to express gratitude to other people. Again to all,

885
00:45:17,756 --> 00:45:19,556
Speaker 1: I don't know your gratitude journals been going on for

886
00:45:19,636 --> 00:45:21,036
Speaker 1: a long time. I don't know what's in it. But

887
00:45:21,196 --> 00:45:23,196
Speaker 1: for me, a lot of times what's in it is

888
00:45:23,236 --> 00:45:25,236
Speaker 1: other people. Right that I'm grateful for things, you know,

889
00:45:25,276 --> 00:45:27,036
Speaker 1: smell my morning coffee and so on, but I'm really

890
00:45:27,076 --> 00:45:29,196
Speaker 1: grateful for, you know, the people who work on my

891
00:45:29,316 --> 00:45:33,196
Speaker 1: podcast team, my students like my husband right, and I

892
00:45:33,316 --> 00:45:35,236
Speaker 1: might even take time to kind of notice, oh, my gosh,

893
00:45:35,236 --> 00:45:36,756
Speaker 1: I love my husband so much, you know, I'm so

894
00:45:36,836 --> 00:45:39,876
Speaker 1: grateful for him. But rarely do I stop at the

895
00:45:39,996 --> 00:45:41,676
Speaker 1: end of that moment and walk over at him and

896
00:45:41,756 --> 00:45:43,516
Speaker 1: be like, you know, honey, I'm so grateful for you.

897
00:45:43,596 --> 00:45:46,316
Speaker 1: Thank you so much that you emptied the dishwasher, help

898
00:45:46,396 --> 00:45:49,036
Speaker 1: me with this problem or whatever. We tend not to

899
00:45:49,156 --> 00:45:51,836
Speaker 1: express gratitude to other people, and there's work by Nick

900
00:45:51,916 --> 00:45:53,716
Speaker 1: Kepley at the University of Chicago showing that one of

901
00:45:53,756 --> 00:45:55,636
Speaker 1: the reasons we don't do that is we just assume.

902
00:45:55,356 --> 00:45:55,956
Speaker 3: They know, right.

903
00:45:55,996 --> 00:45:58,036
Speaker 1: We assume they know they mean a lot to us

904
00:45:58,036 --> 00:46:00,636
Speaker 1: and they're thankful for us, and that kind of, you know,

905
00:46:00,796 --> 00:46:03,836
Speaker 1: cognitive distortion, assuming that they know when they don't actually know.

906
00:46:03,956 --> 00:46:06,796
Speaker 1: This sort of failure of perspective taking means we leave

907
00:46:06,876 --> 00:46:09,556
Speaker 1: a moment on the table to do something nice to

908
00:46:09,596 --> 00:46:11,796
Speaker 1: somebody else. When I express my husband, oh, I'm so

909
00:46:11,916 --> 00:46:14,276
Speaker 1: grateful for you, that feels good to him. It kind

910
00:46:14,316 --> 00:46:16,116
Speaker 1: of boots up my gratitude because it's hard to be

911
00:46:16,196 --> 00:46:18,556
Speaker 1: saying that and not feeling it, and it's usually a

912
00:46:18,636 --> 00:46:21,836
Speaker 1: moment of social connection, sometimes with people who haven't talked

913
00:46:21,876 --> 00:46:22,076
Speaker 1: to in.

914
00:46:22,076 --> 00:46:22,676
Speaker 3: A while, you know.

915
00:46:22,756 --> 00:46:25,156
Speaker 1: I know sometimes moments in my gratitude journal, I'm just

916
00:46:25,236 --> 00:46:27,916
Speaker 1: like thinking about an old friend or something that somebody

917
00:46:27,996 --> 00:46:30,516
Speaker 1: did for me weeks ago, maybe even sometimes years ago,

918
00:46:31,196 --> 00:46:33,116
Speaker 1: you know, reach out to that person and actually express

919
00:46:33,196 --> 00:46:33,876
Speaker 1: gratitude to them.

920
00:46:34,036 --> 00:46:34,156
Speaker 2: You know.

921
00:46:34,196 --> 00:46:36,396
Speaker 1: The studies really show that they don't know that you

922
00:46:36,476 --> 00:46:39,036
Speaker 1: appreciate them that much, and it can have a huge

923
00:46:39,116 --> 00:46:41,876
Speaker 1: impact on their well being and yours too.

924
00:46:42,756 --> 00:46:47,796
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that's such an important, powerful amplifier of the

925
00:46:48,676 --> 00:46:51,836
Speaker 3: of the gratitude exercise, and then you have the cognitive

926
00:46:51,996 --> 00:46:56,196
Speaker 3: and the behavioral working in tandem. Yeah it Tai.

927
00:46:57,476 --> 00:47:00,316
Speaker 4: Thank you so much. So I'm going to make a

928
00:47:00,436 --> 00:47:04,716
Speaker 4: quick question, especially as a college professor. We all know

929
00:47:04,996 --> 00:47:09,796
Speaker 4: the political climate in colleges has been spoke about everything

930
00:47:09,996 --> 00:47:12,836
Speaker 4: very charged, especially in the past twenty months. I wonder

931
00:47:12,956 --> 00:47:16,676
Speaker 4: what are your thoughts on the positive implications and the

932
00:47:16,756 --> 00:47:21,476
Speaker 4: negative implications it has on students welfare and happiness. On

933
00:47:21,596 --> 00:47:24,476
Speaker 4: one hand, there are social connections that are being made

934
00:47:24,956 --> 00:47:28,436
Speaker 4: students become politically involved. When I was a student in

935
00:47:28,516 --> 00:47:31,596
Speaker 4: a year's college twenty years ago, there was nothing like that.

936
00:47:32,356 --> 00:47:34,996
Speaker 4: On the other hand, obviously there are many people who

937
00:47:35,276 --> 00:47:39,476
Speaker 4: are very stressed and anxious about it. And I'm especially

938
00:47:39,596 --> 00:47:44,396
Speaker 4: curious to know because all the reports show that the wellbeing,

939
00:47:44,596 --> 00:47:48,876
Speaker 4: the mental wellbeing of students, especially in the US, is declining.

940
00:47:50,636 --> 00:47:52,796
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this is a great question. I think is

941
00:47:52,796 --> 00:47:54,556
Speaker 1: what I think about a lot, especially on the US

942
00:47:54,636 --> 00:47:58,276
Speaker 1: college campus. I think part of the problem starts with

943
00:47:58,716 --> 00:48:02,196
Speaker 1: the loneliness crisis that we're seeing, and in some ways

944
00:48:02,236 --> 00:48:06,156
Speaker 1: the crisis of these third spaces. One of Robert Putnam's

945
00:48:06,236 --> 00:48:08,996
Speaker 1: original insights when you first started writing about third space

946
00:48:09,756 --> 00:48:12,596
Speaker 1: was that there are often spots where we can meet

947
00:48:12,836 --> 00:48:16,916
Speaker 1: someone who thinks differently across the political divide. He talked

948
00:48:16,956 --> 00:48:20,236
Speaker 1: to about growing up in a small town in Ohio

949
00:48:20,756 --> 00:48:23,156
Speaker 1: where during his at his bowling league, there were people

950
00:48:23,196 --> 00:48:26,436
Speaker 1: from many different races, many different political parties, many different

951
00:48:26,476 --> 00:48:27,116
Speaker 1: wealth levels.

952
00:48:27,276 --> 00:48:27,396
Speaker 8: Right.

953
00:48:27,996 --> 00:48:30,956
Speaker 1: I think more and more in modern times, especially in

954
00:48:31,036 --> 00:48:34,156
Speaker 1: the US, you just don't interact with someone that's a

955
00:48:34,196 --> 00:48:36,996
Speaker 1: Republican if you're a Democrat, Right, you just don't interact

956
00:48:37,036 --> 00:48:39,996
Speaker 1: with people who have a vastly different wealth level than you. Right,

957
00:48:40,396 --> 00:48:43,036
Speaker 1: especially on like even putting and even terms where you

958
00:48:43,116 --> 00:48:46,356
Speaker 1: can have fun conversations about something else. And so one

959
00:48:46,396 --> 00:48:48,636
Speaker 1: of Robert Putnam's points is that if we really want

960
00:48:48,716 --> 00:48:52,516
Speaker 1: to fix this problem of the political divide generally, but

961
00:48:52,636 --> 00:48:56,236
Speaker 1: also the kind of fraught nature of having tough political conversations,

962
00:48:56,756 --> 00:48:58,716
Speaker 1: like it would be great to build spaces where we

963
00:48:58,796 --> 00:49:01,916
Speaker 1: were talking like across the aisle generally, and then that

964
00:49:01,996 --> 00:49:04,676
Speaker 1: would make it easier to have these conversations later. And

965
00:49:04,796 --> 00:49:06,756
Speaker 1: so I actually see a lot of these problems as

966
00:49:06,876 --> 00:49:10,596
Speaker 1: ones of social connection, like we're just not interacting with

967
00:49:10,676 --> 00:49:13,036
Speaker 1: people who you know, share views that are different, that

968
00:49:13,156 --> 00:49:14,676
Speaker 1: have views that are different than ours, and so on.

969
00:49:15,356 --> 00:49:17,516
Speaker 1: I also think that in general, when I watch my

970
00:49:17,596 --> 00:49:20,036
Speaker 1: college students, it's not so much even that they're having

971
00:49:20,076 --> 00:49:23,356
Speaker 1: a tough time with these hard political conversations. They're having

972
00:49:23,396 --> 00:49:26,516
Speaker 1: a tough time with conversations generally. Right they have to

973
00:49:26,636 --> 00:49:29,436
Speaker 1: call someone to you know, update something on their financial

974
00:49:29,476 --> 00:49:32,116
Speaker 1: aid or something. It's like call someone I'm you know,

975
00:49:32,316 --> 00:49:34,676
Speaker 1: fraught with social anxiety to be able to do that.

976
00:49:36,196 --> 00:49:38,036
Speaker 1: One of the funny you know, as a head of college,

977
00:49:38,036 --> 00:49:39,956
Speaker 1: you often have these funny moments where you realize how

978
00:49:39,996 --> 00:49:42,236
Speaker 1: different life is for gen Z and Gen Alpha than

979
00:49:42,276 --> 00:49:44,676
Speaker 1: it is for you and One of the ones that

980
00:49:44,996 --> 00:49:47,716
Speaker 1: I remember so well during my head of college days

981
00:49:47,756 --> 00:49:50,356
Speaker 1: happened when one of my students was like, hox Santo's

982
00:49:50,356 --> 00:49:52,796
Speaker 1: that's my title head of college. Hoxanto's, hox Santo's there's

983
00:49:52,836 --> 00:49:54,836
Speaker 1: this weird number on the wall in my room, Like

984
00:49:54,916 --> 00:49:56,516
Speaker 1: what's this number? And I was like what she talking about?

985
00:49:56,556 --> 00:49:57,596
Speaker 1: So I go in a room and I'm like, oh,

986
00:49:57,676 --> 00:50:00,836
Speaker 1: that's that's a phone jack. That number used to be

987
00:50:00,916 --> 00:50:02,596
Speaker 1: a phone because you used to have a landline that

988
00:50:02,676 --> 00:50:04,876
Speaker 1: people could call you in your room. And she was like, oh,

989
00:50:04,996 --> 00:50:07,636
Speaker 1: that's so great, and she said, well, did each of

990
00:50:07,716 --> 00:50:09,356
Speaker 1: my roommates have one? Like is there one that would

991
00:50:09,356 --> 00:50:11,436
Speaker 1: have been mine? And like four other ones for my roommates?

992
00:50:11,476 --> 00:50:13,076
Speaker 1: And I was like, no, like back in the day,

993
00:50:13,076 --> 00:50:16,196
Speaker 1: there's just one number. And she she literally asked, She's like, well,

994
00:50:16,236 --> 00:50:18,116
Speaker 1: what would happen? You know if I was roommates with

995
00:50:18,196 --> 00:50:20,356
Speaker 1: Tall and someone called for Tall and Tall wasn't there.

996
00:50:20,476 --> 00:50:22,556
Speaker 1: But I answered the phone like what would happen? And

997
00:50:22,636 --> 00:50:25,036
Speaker 1: I said, well, you you would say, you know, Tall's

998
00:50:25,076 --> 00:50:27,876
Speaker 1: not here. Can I take a message? And I realized, like, wait,

999
00:50:28,036 --> 00:50:31,116
Speaker 1: many college students, many eighteen year olds today, have never

1000
00:50:31,356 --> 00:50:34,436
Speaker 1: had that experience. You know, they don't have landlines in

1001
00:50:34,476 --> 00:50:36,756
Speaker 1: their own home. They never you know, many college students

1002
00:50:36,796 --> 00:50:39,076
Speaker 1: have never had the experience of having to go to

1003
00:50:39,196 --> 00:50:41,436
Speaker 1: somebody's house, knock on the door, you know, say hey,

1004
00:50:41,476 --> 00:50:43,396
Speaker 1: where's Tall? Can you come out to play and talk

1005
00:50:43,476 --> 00:50:46,556
Speaker 1: with a parent? Like these tiny social interactions that you know,

1006
00:50:46,636 --> 00:50:48,276
Speaker 1: if you're of a certain age like me and Tall,

1007
00:50:48,596 --> 00:50:51,876
Speaker 1: maybe you remember as being ubiquitous in society just aren't

1008
00:50:51,876 --> 00:50:54,156
Speaker 1: the things that kids today grow up with. And so like,

1009
00:50:54,276 --> 00:50:56,036
Speaker 1: if they can't do that, you know, if they can't

1010
00:50:56,236 --> 00:50:58,356
Speaker 1: be like, hey, Tall's not here, can I take a message?

1011
00:50:58,796 --> 00:51:01,236
Speaker 1: You know, how are they going to talk about, you know,

1012
00:51:01,676 --> 00:51:03,276
Speaker 1: like the bills that are coming out in the United

1013
00:51:03,316 --> 00:51:05,956
Speaker 1: States and fraught political politics and what's going on in

1014
00:51:06,036 --> 00:51:09,076
Speaker 1: the Middle East. Like that's way harder than the simple thing.

1015
00:51:09,356 --> 00:51:11,356
Speaker 1: And so I actually think if we could find ways

1016
00:51:11,396 --> 00:51:14,756
Speaker 1: to build in spaces where those simple conversations become easier

1017
00:51:15,116 --> 00:51:18,116
Speaker 1: and more practices to get kids to kind of engage

1018
00:51:18,116 --> 00:51:20,796
Speaker 1: in the habit of doing social connection generally, then we'll

1019
00:51:20,836 --> 00:51:24,476
Speaker 1: actually solve a lot of the tougher political conversation issues

1020
00:51:24,556 --> 00:51:26,316
Speaker 1: that our young people are facing today.

1021
00:51:27,996 --> 00:51:30,316
Speaker 3: You know, Laurie I'm thinking as you were talking about

1022
00:51:30,636 --> 00:51:33,276
Speaker 3: one of the practices that we have at the Happiness

1023
00:51:33,276 --> 00:51:36,476
Speaker 3: Studies academies. We have retreats. And the reason we have

1024
00:51:36,556 --> 00:51:38,396
Speaker 3: those retreats is so that we can have, you know,

1025
00:51:38,636 --> 00:51:42,236
Speaker 3: face to face, in person interactions rather than just being online.

1026
00:51:43,396 --> 00:51:49,876
Speaker 3: And our last retreat was in Finland and we had

1027
00:51:49,916 --> 00:51:53,636
Speaker 3: one of the professors from a Finnish university talk about

1028
00:51:54,156 --> 00:51:56,956
Speaker 3: why is Finland, you know, time and time again, the

1029
00:51:56,996 --> 00:51:59,636
Speaker 3: happiest country in the world. And he said one of

1030
00:51:59,756 --> 00:52:04,316
Speaker 3: the reasons is the sauna and we were all acting

1031
00:52:04,636 --> 00:52:08,956
Speaker 3: the sauna and he said, yes, Finns are obsessed with saunas.

1032
00:52:09,556 --> 00:52:11,596
Speaker 3: And he said, if you think about it, what it does.

1033
00:52:12,036 --> 00:52:14,076
Speaker 3: And he didn't use that language, but now I'm you know,

1034
00:52:14,396 --> 00:52:18,276
Speaker 3: using Urine and Putnam's language. It's a third space, he says.

1035
00:52:18,356 --> 00:52:19,996
Speaker 3: We get in there and it doesn't matter if you're

1036
00:52:20,076 --> 00:52:22,756
Speaker 3: a you know, a CEO of a large company or

1037
00:52:22,876 --> 00:52:26,356
Speaker 3: you know, a bus driver, you know, a street sweeper

1038
00:52:26,556 --> 00:52:30,396
Speaker 3: or a stay at home parent or whatever. You're there together.

1039
00:52:31,116 --> 00:52:36,476
Speaker 3: He added, often naked. So yeah, intimate, very intimate, and

1040
00:52:36,596 --> 00:52:39,956
Speaker 3: you know, you talk about life and that's it. That's

1041
00:52:39,996 --> 00:52:41,996
Speaker 3: a that's a third space. So maybe you know one

1042
00:52:42,036 --> 00:52:45,876
Speaker 3: of our recommendations should be more son as a cross men. Yeah,

1043
00:52:46,716 --> 00:52:47,196
Speaker 3: across the.

1044
00:52:47,196 --> 00:52:51,316
Speaker 1: Country, yells campus. I think problems perhaps, but what will

1045
00:52:51,396 --> 00:52:51,796
Speaker 1: work through it?

1046
00:52:51,916 --> 00:52:56,916
Speaker 3: I know, I know. Yeah, we'll think about that one. Yeah,

1047
00:52:57,476 --> 00:53:00,316
Speaker 3: So creating more of those again, they don't need to

1048
00:53:00,396 --> 00:53:04,236
Speaker 3: be major. Even micro interactions can make can make all

1049
00:53:04,276 --> 00:53:07,836
Speaker 3: the difference on campuses and and the workplace and beyond.

1050
00:53:08,476 --> 00:53:11,756
Speaker 1: Thank you you're listening to me speaking with doctor Tall

1051
00:53:11,796 --> 00:53:15,396
Speaker 1: Benjahar of the Happiness Studies Academy. We'll be back after

1052
00:53:15,476 --> 00:53:16,156
Speaker 1: the shortbreak.

1053
00:53:20,476 --> 00:53:24,836
Speaker 11: Shari, Hello, So I have a question doctor Santos about

1054
00:53:25,036 --> 00:53:27,436
Speaker 11: this is kind of following the same lines about students.

1055
00:53:27,916 --> 00:53:30,596
Speaker 11: So I have a college aged student and he is

1056
00:53:30,716 --> 00:53:34,356
Speaker 11: completely mortified when I speak to anyone in public. If

1057
00:53:34,396 --> 00:53:36,796
Speaker 11: I pass someone on the sidewalk and say hello, if

1058
00:53:36,836 --> 00:53:38,836
Speaker 11: I talk to someone in line at the grocery store,

1059
00:53:39,236 --> 00:53:42,156
Speaker 11: He's like, why are you always talking to people? And

1060
00:53:42,196 --> 00:53:46,516
Speaker 11: then we had a conversation recently about this gen Z stare.

1061
00:53:46,836 --> 00:53:49,276
Speaker 11: I don't know if you're familiar with this, but this

1062
00:53:49,476 --> 00:53:52,636
Speaker 11: idea that when you ask a gen Z person a

1063
00:53:52,756 --> 00:53:55,876
Speaker 11: question and they just stare back at you with no response.

1064
00:53:56,356 --> 00:53:58,836
Speaker 11: And so we were having along back and forth about this,

1065
00:53:59,396 --> 00:54:01,796
Speaker 11: and I was trying to express to him the importance

1066
00:54:02,236 --> 00:54:05,996
Speaker 11: or the value and just communicating with other people, recognizing

1067
00:54:06,116 --> 00:54:10,716
Speaker 11: someone else as having these small conversations little chichette, and

1068
00:54:10,876 --> 00:54:13,316
Speaker 11: He's like, if I'm working at a food counter and

1069
00:54:13,396 --> 00:54:15,036
Speaker 11: they get their food, I'm doing my job.

1070
00:54:15,156 --> 00:54:16,876
Speaker 3: Why does it have to be all this extra?

1071
00:54:17,476 --> 00:54:19,796
Speaker 11: So my question is, when you have students who have

1072
00:54:19,956 --> 00:54:22,596
Speaker 11: come to your class, I would imagine for a reason

1073
00:54:22,676 --> 00:54:26,516
Speaker 11: they're choosing to take this class, and then you offer

1074
00:54:26,636 --> 00:54:29,996
Speaker 11: them these things that they can do, do you find

1075
00:54:30,036 --> 00:54:33,636
Speaker 11: that they struggle to recognize the value in doing those things?

1076
00:54:34,076 --> 00:54:36,596
Speaker 1: And then what do you do with that?

1077
00:54:37,396 --> 00:54:37,596
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1078
00:54:37,716 --> 00:54:40,276
Speaker 1: No, it's a great question, and I resonate. Believe me,

1079
00:54:40,356 --> 00:54:42,196
Speaker 1: I get a lot of the gen z stare in

1080
00:54:42,356 --> 00:54:46,476
Speaker 1: my life much, professor, Right. I mean, I think one

1081
00:54:46,556 --> 00:54:49,796
Speaker 1: of the strategies I've had for convincing people that this

1082
00:54:49,876 --> 00:54:53,196
Speaker 1: stuff is important is really showing people the data, right,

1083
00:54:53,276 --> 00:54:55,836
Speaker 1: I mean, in my course, you literally get to see

1084
00:54:55,836 --> 00:54:58,036
Speaker 1: the graph of what happens if you engage in the

1085
00:54:58,076 --> 00:55:00,676
Speaker 1: conversation with the breeze at the coffee shop versus if

1086
00:55:00,716 --> 00:55:02,756
Speaker 1: you don't, And then you see that graph and you're like, well,

1087
00:55:02,836 --> 00:55:04,956
Speaker 1: I actually want more of life satisfaction. I want more

1088
00:55:04,996 --> 00:55:07,596
Speaker 1: of positive emotion. Maybe I should try it out. And

1089
00:55:07,716 --> 00:55:09,996
Speaker 1: I think this is critical. You know, I mentioned before

1090
00:55:10,036 --> 00:55:11,916
Speaker 1: this idea that our minds lie to us about the

1091
00:55:12,036 --> 00:55:14,316
Speaker 1: kinds of things that make us happy, and I think

1092
00:55:14,356 --> 00:55:16,636
Speaker 1: our minds lie to us about so much of what

1093
00:55:17,116 --> 00:55:19,556
Speaker 1: the benefits of social connection could be. This is definitely

1094
00:55:19,596 --> 00:55:21,116
Speaker 1: true for gen Z, but I think it's true for

1095
00:55:21,156 --> 00:55:24,396
Speaker 1: adults too. Some of the original studies on the benefits

1096
00:55:24,436 --> 00:55:28,356
Speaker 1: of these really micro interactions happened not with individuals for

1097
00:55:28,436 --> 00:55:30,196
Speaker 1: a gen Z, but kind of like, you know, middle

1098
00:55:30,236 --> 00:55:33,196
Speaker 1: aged adults in the workforce. Nick Epley did this study

1099
00:55:33,236 --> 00:55:35,796
Speaker 1: where he had people on a commute to works. He's

1100
00:55:35,796 --> 00:55:37,756
Speaker 1: again like, kind of middle aged people hopping on the

1101
00:55:37,916 --> 00:55:39,196
Speaker 1: L train to go to work, because he did this

1102
00:55:39,396 --> 00:55:43,076
Speaker 1: study in Chicago in the US, and he either told people, hey,

1103
00:55:43,236 --> 00:55:45,796
Speaker 1: for the entire train ride, I want you to enjoy

1104
00:55:45,876 --> 00:55:48,436
Speaker 1: your solitude, be by yourself, or hey, for the entire

1105
00:55:48,476 --> 00:55:50,116
Speaker 1: train ride, I want you to talk to someone.

1106
00:55:50,396 --> 00:55:50,516
Speaker 8: Right.

1107
00:55:51,596 --> 00:55:53,436
Speaker 1: He does the study and finds it when you talk

1108
00:55:53,476 --> 00:55:56,956
Speaker 1: to someone, you wind up feeling happier, enjoying more positive mood,

1109
00:55:56,996 --> 00:55:58,836
Speaker 1: and so on. But the other thing he does is

1110
00:55:58,876 --> 00:56:01,036
Speaker 1: to have subjects predict, hey, if you were in one

1111
00:56:01,036 --> 00:56:03,956
Speaker 1: of these two conditions that enjoy your solitude condition versus

1112
00:56:04,036 --> 00:56:06,916
Speaker 1: the talk to someone condition, which would make you feel better,

1113
00:56:07,316 --> 00:56:08,676
Speaker 1: and that was, like, you know, one of the most

1114
00:56:08,716 --> 00:56:11,436
Speaker 1: strikingffects and positive psychology. People think that talking to the

1115
00:56:11,476 --> 00:56:14,636
Speaker 1: stranger on the train is going to be awkward, crummy,

1116
00:56:14,956 --> 00:56:16,316
Speaker 1: anxiety provoking, etc.

1117
00:56:16,556 --> 00:56:16,796
Speaker 3: Etc.

1118
00:56:17,596 --> 00:56:20,596
Speaker 1: Our predictions are wrong. And one of the things Nick

1119
00:56:20,796 --> 00:56:22,916
Speaker 1: argues is that our predictions are wrong because we don't

1120
00:56:22,956 --> 00:56:26,596
Speaker 1: often engage in these activities. In fact, he finds, for example,

1121
00:56:26,676 --> 00:56:28,996
Speaker 1: the introverts really strongly predict that this is going to

1122
00:56:29,036 --> 00:56:31,756
Speaker 1: be terrible, but the benefits that they accrue are the

1123
00:56:31,796 --> 00:56:34,636
Speaker 1: same as those that extrovert might accrue. Kind of surprisingly,

1124
00:56:34,716 --> 00:56:36,996
Speaker 1: this is a finding, I guess some pushback on so

1125
00:56:37,036 --> 00:56:38,556
Speaker 1: I like often like to cite it like no, no, no,

1126
00:56:38,636 --> 00:56:40,676
Speaker 1: here's a graph, you could look at it yourself. But

1127
00:56:40,796 --> 00:56:42,956
Speaker 1: his argument is that introverts tend to engage in these

1128
00:56:42,996 --> 00:56:45,996
Speaker 1: little micro interactions less, so they don't notice the benefits,

1129
00:56:46,596 --> 00:56:48,836
Speaker 1: and their misconception about what it's going to feel like

1130
00:56:48,916 --> 00:56:50,716
Speaker 1: gets bigger and bigger, right, because you never get the

1131
00:56:50,796 --> 00:56:52,516
Speaker 1: data to show you, oh, that's not as bad as

1132
00:56:52,556 --> 00:56:54,916
Speaker 1: I thought. I think that's actually what's going on with

1133
00:56:55,036 --> 00:56:57,116
Speaker 1: gen Z a lot of the time, right, is that

1134
00:56:57,276 --> 00:56:59,516
Speaker 1: they don't engage in these interactions. As we mentioned, they

1135
00:56:59,516 --> 00:57:01,356
Speaker 1: don't have this moment to like, you know, quickly answer

1136
00:57:01,436 --> 00:57:03,276
Speaker 1: the phone and talk to somebody or talk to folks

1137
00:57:03,316 --> 00:57:05,716
Speaker 1: on the street. They just have no practice, and so

1138
00:57:05,796 --> 00:57:07,676
Speaker 1: when they simulate what this is going to feel like,

1139
00:57:07,756 --> 00:57:09,956
Speaker 1: it feels really it feels like it has a lot

1140
00:57:09,996 --> 00:57:11,836
Speaker 1: of friction, it feels like it's going to be really hard,

1141
00:57:12,356 --> 00:57:14,276
Speaker 1: And they never engage in these practices to get the

1142
00:57:14,356 --> 00:57:16,716
Speaker 1: data to say not only it wasn't that bad, but

1143
00:57:16,836 --> 00:57:18,516
Speaker 1: like it actually kind of made me feel good. It

1144
00:57:18,556 --> 00:57:20,116
Speaker 1: made me feel a little bit more connected. It made

1145
00:57:20,116 --> 00:57:21,516
Speaker 1: me feel a little bit happier than I would have

1146
00:57:21,556 --> 00:57:24,156
Speaker 1: felt on that train ride. So so I like showing

1147
00:57:24,196 --> 00:57:27,956
Speaker 1: the data and and kind of convincing folks, hey, just experiment,

1148
00:57:28,116 --> 00:57:30,996
Speaker 1: just try it once, notice and see what it feels like.

1149
00:57:33,276 --> 00:57:36,556
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, that's great advice, you know, Laurie, the

1150
00:57:36,636 --> 00:57:39,596
Speaker 3: idea of just experiment, see what happens. You know, the

1151
00:57:39,716 --> 00:57:42,076
Speaker 3: worst that would happen. Okay, you're a little bit embarrassed,

1152
00:57:42,796 --> 00:57:47,036
Speaker 3: so what And then also to recognize that for many

1153
00:57:47,076 --> 00:57:50,316
Speaker 3: of these interventions there is a startup cost. Yes, it's

1154
00:57:50,436 --> 00:57:52,916
Speaker 3: easier to sit by yourself and you know, be you know,

1155
00:57:53,116 --> 00:57:56,516
Speaker 3: inside your you know, your screen. It's a little bit

1156
00:57:56,516 --> 00:57:59,276
Speaker 3: more challenging to you know, smile at someone and strike

1157
00:57:59,396 --> 00:58:02,596
Speaker 3: up a conversation. But once we do that, once you

1158
00:58:02,676 --> 00:58:05,276
Speaker 3: know the first step, it becomes an upward spiral.

1159
00:58:05,436 --> 00:58:08,156
Speaker 1: I think it's so important to recognize that, like our

1160
00:58:08,236 --> 00:58:10,716
Speaker 1: intuitions about how bad it's going to be, our wrong,

1161
00:58:11,756 --> 00:58:13,836
Speaker 1: you know, and if and they're wrong for so many

1162
00:58:13,956 --> 00:58:16,276
Speaker 1: things in the domain of social connection, right, we assume

1163
00:58:16,316 --> 00:58:17,996
Speaker 1: that other people don't want to talk to us. This

1164
00:58:18,156 --> 00:58:20,476
Speaker 1: is another finding from some of Nick Epley's work, right,

1165
00:58:20,756 --> 00:58:22,596
Speaker 1: that the person you're talking to is hating it the

1166
00:58:22,636 --> 00:58:24,556
Speaker 1: whole time and being like, who's this weirdo who's talking

1167
00:58:24,556 --> 00:58:26,276
Speaker 1: to me on the train? No, it turns out that

1168
00:58:26,356 --> 00:58:29,236
Speaker 1: the people who you're talk who are talked to, actually

1169
00:58:29,356 --> 00:58:31,956
Speaker 1: enjoy it as well. We worry that it would be

1170
00:58:32,196 --> 00:58:35,076
Speaker 1: tough to ask someone for help, to show that we're vulnerable,

1171
00:58:35,436 --> 00:58:38,596
Speaker 1: but social psychologists have long documented this so called beautiful

1172
00:58:38,636 --> 00:58:41,116
Speaker 1: mess effect, where if you seem like you're a little

1173
00:58:41,276 --> 00:58:43,596
Speaker 1: needy like and that you seem like you're a little vulnerable.

1174
00:58:43,676 --> 00:58:46,836
Speaker 1: That actually enhances your likability to other folks. And so

1175
00:58:46,876 --> 00:58:49,556
Speaker 1: I actually think, I honestly tell one of my roles

1176
00:58:49,636 --> 00:58:51,676
Speaker 1: is to tell college students about all these kinds of

1177
00:58:51,716 --> 00:58:53,996
Speaker 1: biases that like, you think social connection is going to

1178
00:58:54,036 --> 00:58:55,476
Speaker 1: be bad, You think you're going to be bad at it,

1179
00:58:55,516 --> 00:58:57,276
Speaker 1: You think other people aren't going to like it, But

1180
00:58:57,436 --> 00:58:59,076
Speaker 1: not only is it going to be neutral, it's going

1181
00:58:59,156 --> 00:59:01,636
Speaker 1: to be good for your happiness, for your likability, for

1182
00:59:01,716 --> 00:59:04,356
Speaker 1: all these other things. Sometimes you need to overcome all

1183
00:59:04,396 --> 00:59:05,396
Speaker 1: these misconceptions.

1184
00:59:05,756 --> 00:59:12,156
Speaker 3: Yeah, love it. Wonderful, Valentina, Thank you, Taal.

1185
00:59:14,116 --> 00:59:17,116
Speaker 12: I'm gonna make it a quick question, but I think

1186
00:59:17,196 --> 00:59:20,476
Speaker 12: it has a lot of deep meaning behind.

1187
00:59:21,076 --> 00:59:22,356
Speaker 1: In Spanish we can.

1188
00:59:22,356 --> 00:59:26,116
Speaker 12: Relate to ideas to happiness estara falis which is joy

1189
00:59:26,476 --> 00:59:32,316
Speaker 12: or emotional state, and c falis which is fulfillment the

1190
00:59:32,356 --> 00:59:37,396
Speaker 12: whole person, wellbeing, et cetera. So I started a project

1191
00:59:37,836 --> 00:59:42,796
Speaker 12: four years ago that promotes happiness as whole person well

1192
00:59:42,836 --> 00:59:46,196
Speaker 12: being as a personal responsibility. So I just want to

1193
00:59:46,476 --> 00:59:47,876
Speaker 12: listen to your insight.

1194
00:59:47,636 --> 00:59:48,276
Speaker 3: On that, Lari.

1195
00:59:48,956 --> 00:59:51,636
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think this is a couple of

1196
00:59:51,676 --> 00:59:53,876
Speaker 1: threads on that one is that I love that you're

1197
00:59:53,916 --> 00:59:57,316
Speaker 1: bringing up the way different languages refer to happiness, because

1198
00:59:57,316 --> 00:59:59,036
Speaker 1: I think this is one of the problems we face

1199
00:59:59,196 --> 01:00:01,596
Speaker 1: right is that we have really limited tools to talk

1200
01:00:01,596 --> 01:00:05,396
Speaker 1: about incredibly complicated states, whether those are states of emotion,

1201
01:00:05,596 --> 01:00:07,916
Speaker 1: states of short term happiness, state happiness, and so on.

1202
01:00:09,196 --> 01:00:12,316
Speaker 1: My favorite projects coming out of the work of Tyler

1203
01:00:12,396 --> 01:00:17,156
Speaker 1: Vanderveil's lab at Harvard these Days is a whole repository

1204
01:00:17,316 --> 01:00:20,636
Speaker 1: of words for happiness and words for emotions from around

1205
01:00:20,676 --> 01:00:23,756
Speaker 1: the world. And what you find is English, the language

1206
01:00:23,756 --> 01:00:26,716
Speaker 1: I speak from a terrible monolingual American. It's just like

1207
01:00:26,996 --> 01:00:30,596
Speaker 1: so impoverished when it comes to other countries. And just like,

1208
01:00:30,716 --> 01:00:33,156
Speaker 1: you know a concept that many folks know, even if

1209
01:00:33,156 --> 01:00:35,516
Speaker 1: they don't know German. You know this word schadenfreude, right,

1210
01:00:35,836 --> 01:00:37,996
Speaker 1: It's like it's an American. I don't know German, but

1211
01:00:38,036 --> 01:00:39,276
Speaker 1: I'm like I hear that word. I'm like, oh, I

1212
01:00:39,316 --> 01:00:41,276
Speaker 1: get shoden freuda, that kind of good feeling you get

1213
01:00:41,276 --> 01:00:43,596
Speaker 1: when something bad happens to somebody else, know what it means.

1214
01:00:44,076 --> 01:00:45,836
Speaker 1: So many of the words in this kind of big

1215
01:00:45,956 --> 01:00:48,316
Speaker 1: corpus that they're putting together are concepts that you like.

1216
01:00:48,356 --> 01:00:49,756
Speaker 1: When you hear it, you're like, oh my gosh, I

1217
01:00:50,196 --> 01:00:52,036
Speaker 1: totally kind of have that concept, even though I don't

1218
01:00:52,036 --> 01:00:54,116
Speaker 1: have a word for it. One of my favorite ones,

1219
01:00:54,156 --> 01:00:56,276
Speaker 1: I'm going to forget the word which is even more embarrassing,

1220
01:00:56,356 --> 01:00:59,996
Speaker 1: but it's a word in Norwegian that means on the

1221
01:01:00,156 --> 01:01:02,996
Speaker 1: first hot day of the year, the cold beverage that

1222
01:01:03,036 --> 01:01:05,596
Speaker 1: you have outside. And as someone who lives in the

1223
01:01:05,636 --> 01:01:07,516
Speaker 1: northeast of the United States, I get I'm like, oh

1224
01:01:07,556 --> 01:01:09,596
Speaker 1: my gosh, there's that day and you have the beard.

1225
01:01:09,876 --> 01:01:12,236
Speaker 1: Oh so good. Right, But the point is that we

1226
01:01:12,356 --> 01:01:15,996
Speaker 1: have impoverished words when it comes to all these concepts,

1227
01:01:16,076 --> 01:01:19,076
Speaker 1: and so I think making distinctions, for example, between well,

1228
01:01:19,116 --> 01:01:20,716
Speaker 1: what I mean by happiness when I mean the joy

1229
01:01:20,836 --> 01:01:22,596
Speaker 1: the short term stuff, and what I mean by happiness

1230
01:01:22,636 --> 01:01:25,876
Speaker 1: when I mean long term stuff. Right, those distinctions, you know,

1231
01:01:25,956 --> 01:01:28,876
Speaker 1: are really critical, and in terms of like which one

1232
01:01:28,916 --> 01:01:31,716
Speaker 1: we should be prioritize, I think the science or shows

1233
01:01:31,796 --> 01:01:34,676
Speaker 1: us something interesting, right, which is like prioritizing both is

1234
01:01:34,756 --> 01:01:37,396
Speaker 1: pretty good, right, as you kind of have more joy

1235
01:01:37,436 --> 01:01:39,836
Speaker 1: in your life, more of these short term moments of

1236
01:01:39,956 --> 01:01:42,836
Speaker 1: feeling good that can contribute to a life where you

1237
01:01:42,956 --> 01:01:45,596
Speaker 1: feel like you're overall flourishing, you're could of all overall

1238
01:01:46,156 --> 01:01:49,516
Speaker 1: promoting your happiness. And finally, I love this idea that

1239
01:01:49,596 --> 01:01:53,876
Speaker 1: you talked about it as a personal responsibility, right. I

1240
01:01:53,956 --> 01:01:57,076
Speaker 1: think sometimes we can kind of pooh pooh happiness because

1241
01:01:57,116 --> 01:01:58,356
Speaker 1: we assume it's selfish.

1242
01:01:58,556 --> 01:01:58,676
Speaker 3: Right.

1243
01:01:58,716 --> 01:02:00,876
Speaker 1: It's just like me, like, oh, you know, poor me,

1244
01:02:00,996 --> 01:02:03,516
Speaker 1: I'm not as happy as I could be, Like you know, me, me, me,

1245
01:02:03,676 --> 01:02:05,716
Speaker 1: I want to feel better. But I think more and

1246
01:02:05,796 --> 01:02:09,556
Speaker 1: more data are coming out showing just how powerful people's

1247
01:02:09,596 --> 01:02:11,996
Speaker 1: mood can be for the kinds of ways that they

1248
01:02:12,076 --> 01:02:14,676
Speaker 1: interact in the world, and in particular the good things

1249
01:02:14,756 --> 01:02:17,716
Speaker 1: they do in the world. Konstant Tin Kushlev, who's a

1250
01:02:17,756 --> 01:02:20,716
Speaker 1: professor at Georgetown, has been doing these studies asking the

1251
01:02:20,796 --> 01:02:23,516
Speaker 1: question like who's out there, like fighting the good fight

1252
01:02:23,636 --> 01:02:26,356
Speaker 1: for the big problems, right, Like who's out there trying

1253
01:02:26,396 --> 01:02:29,196
Speaker 1: to deal with the climate crisis that we're facing in

1254
01:02:29,276 --> 01:02:31,196
Speaker 1: the US When we face social justice problems, you know,

1255
01:02:31,276 --> 01:02:33,676
Speaker 1: who's going to, for example, a Black Lives Matter protest?

1256
01:02:33,756 --> 01:02:35,476
Speaker 1: Like who's like really trying to put in the work

1257
01:02:35,916 --> 01:02:39,396
Speaker 1: to fix the problems that you perceive us facing. And

1258
01:02:39,516 --> 01:02:41,636
Speaker 1: what he finds is that a lot of it is

1259
01:02:41,716 --> 01:02:44,436
Speaker 1: predicted by your positive mood. You know, if you ask

1260
01:02:44,516 --> 01:02:46,516
Speaker 1: who are the people that are really worried about the

1261
01:02:46,556 --> 01:02:48,756
Speaker 1: climate crisis, it tends to be people who are a

1262
01:02:48,796 --> 01:02:51,316
Speaker 1: little high anxiety, a little high depression. But if you

1263
01:02:51,356 --> 01:02:54,276
Speaker 1: ask the question who's getting solar panels, who's going to

1264
01:02:54,356 --> 01:02:56,996
Speaker 1: a protest, who's calling you know, their congressman or a

1265
01:02:57,036 --> 01:02:59,796
Speaker 1: politician to try to help and fix things, it tends

1266
01:02:59,836 --> 01:03:02,676
Speaker 1: to be the people who are feeling happier. And his

1267
01:03:02,836 --> 01:03:06,316
Speaker 1: hypothesis is that, like, actually, if we want to fix

1268
01:03:06,396 --> 01:03:08,716
Speaker 1: the structural problems out there, we kind of need to

1269
01:03:08,716 --> 01:03:11,596
Speaker 1: put our own oxygen mask on first, because that's how

1270
01:03:11,636 --> 01:03:13,156
Speaker 1: we're going to help others, and that's how we're going

1271
01:03:13,236 --> 01:03:14,956
Speaker 1: to help the world. And so so I love this

1272
01:03:15,076 --> 01:03:18,716
Speaker 1: notion that, like, you should see your own life satisfaction,

1273
01:03:18,796 --> 01:03:21,076
Speaker 1: you should see your own kind of flourishing. As a

1274
01:03:21,156 --> 01:03:24,716
Speaker 1: personal responsibility, I actually think based on Kushluff's work, it

1275
01:03:24,836 --> 01:03:27,796
Speaker 1: becomes kind of a moral responsibility to take care of yourself.

1276
01:03:28,396 --> 01:03:30,236
Speaker 1: That might be one of the best ways to make

1277
01:03:30,276 --> 01:03:33,196
Speaker 1: sure we have the bandwidth to be helping others and

1278
01:03:33,316 --> 01:03:34,516
Speaker 1: help and helping the world too.

1279
01:03:36,756 --> 01:03:38,476
Speaker 3: That's great and Laurie, I just want to connect that,

1280
01:03:38,716 --> 01:03:43,036
Speaker 3: you know, the two strands of your of your response.

1281
01:03:43,316 --> 01:03:46,436
Speaker 3: You know, you talk about how language is important, and

1282
01:03:47,676 --> 01:03:50,676
Speaker 3: you know, we talk about how words create worlds and

1283
01:03:50,796 --> 01:03:56,036
Speaker 3: how concepts conceive and one of the words that we

1284
01:03:56,196 --> 01:03:59,236
Speaker 3: use is rather than think about the pursuit of happiness

1285
01:03:59,276 --> 01:04:03,676
Speaker 3: as being selfish or selfless, we talk about it being

1286
01:04:03,836 --> 01:04:08,516
Speaker 3: self full. And within the idea of selffulness, that's when

1287
01:04:08,556 --> 01:04:11,996
Speaker 3: you take care of yourself and you take care of others.

1288
01:04:12,556 --> 01:04:15,036
Speaker 3: More than that, it's through taking care of yourself that

1289
01:04:15,116 --> 01:04:17,556
Speaker 3: you take care of others, and by taking care of others,

1290
01:04:17,836 --> 01:04:20,916
Speaker 3: you're also taking care of yourself, so you're potentially creating

1291
01:04:20,956 --> 01:04:23,996
Speaker 3: an upward spiral of goodness and happiness.

1292
01:04:24,636 --> 01:04:27,276
Speaker 1: I love this. I love this concept of selfful It's

1293
01:04:27,316 --> 01:04:28,196
Speaker 1: a good it's a good word.

1294
01:04:31,716 --> 01:04:33,876
Speaker 3: Thank you, Vallet Gutdie.

1295
01:04:36,636 --> 01:04:40,076
Speaker 2: Thank you first of all, thank you both for everything

1296
01:04:40,156 --> 01:04:43,956
Speaker 2: that you do to help other people. You're both my hero,

1297
01:04:44,236 --> 01:04:50,196
Speaker 2: So thank you very much. I am very much on board.

1298
01:04:50,276 --> 01:04:52,196
Speaker 2: That has also known me for many years. I'm very

1299
01:04:52,276 --> 01:04:56,476
Speaker 2: much on board with doing things proactively to become happier.

1300
01:04:57,516 --> 01:05:02,396
Speaker 2: I have two teenage daughters who are seventeen years old

1301
01:05:03,756 --> 01:05:07,836
Speaker 2: who will not listen to any of this and would

1302
01:05:07,876 --> 01:05:11,036
Speaker 2: love any advice that you have for how we can

1303
01:05:11,116 --> 01:05:12,596
Speaker 2: get these messages.

1304
01:05:12,196 --> 01:05:12,796
Speaker 3: Through to them.

1305
01:05:14,236 --> 01:05:15,916
Speaker 1: Well, I will say one of the things you can

1306
01:05:15,956 --> 01:05:18,796
Speaker 1: do sounds like something you're already doing, Gotti, which is

1307
01:05:19,076 --> 01:05:24,276
Speaker 1: that we know our behaviors are contagious. Right if you're

1308
01:05:24,396 --> 01:05:27,076
Speaker 1: at the dinner table talking not about the terrible things

1309
01:05:27,116 --> 01:05:29,516
Speaker 1: that happened at work, but your delights, that's the kind

1310
01:05:29,516 --> 01:05:31,396
Speaker 1: of thing that's going to make other people tend to

1311
01:05:31,476 --> 01:05:33,956
Speaker 1: do that too, and especially your kids. While it doesn't

1312
01:05:33,996 --> 01:05:36,596
Speaker 1: often feel like it, you know, there's lots of evidence

1313
01:05:36,636 --> 01:05:40,316
Speaker 1: from Cya, Barsaid and others that are the contagion that

1314
01:05:40,356 --> 01:05:43,236
Speaker 1: we experience, both in our behaviors and our emotions happen

1315
01:05:43,316 --> 01:05:45,716
Speaker 1: for happen through the people who are in charge to

1316
01:05:45,876 --> 01:05:48,236
Speaker 1: the people who are a little bit less in charge.

1317
01:05:48,276 --> 01:05:49,996
Speaker 1: And even though it doesn't feel that way, especially with

1318
01:05:50,036 --> 01:05:52,196
Speaker 1: the seventeen year olds, you as a parent, are actually

1319
01:05:52,236 --> 01:05:55,236
Speaker 1: in charge. But what that means is that you actually

1320
01:05:55,276 --> 01:05:58,076
Speaker 1: have some agency over the emotions in your family and

1321
01:05:58,116 --> 01:06:00,796
Speaker 1: in some ways the behaviors in your family. You just

1322
01:06:00,876 --> 01:06:02,876
Speaker 1: kind of have to practice yourself. And I love this

1323
01:06:02,956 --> 01:06:06,236
Speaker 1: piece of advice because it gives parents, and even if

1324
01:06:06,236 --> 01:06:08,076
Speaker 1: you're not a parent, a leader at work and so on,

1325
01:06:08,276 --> 01:06:11,476
Speaker 1: a manager, permission to take care of yourself and to

1326
01:06:11,596 --> 01:06:13,556
Speaker 1: make sure you are doing the kinds of things that

1327
01:06:13,596 --> 01:06:15,716
Speaker 1: you need to do to promote your well being, because

1328
01:06:15,756 --> 01:06:18,436
Speaker 1: those kinds of behaviors and the emotions that emerge from

1329
01:06:18,476 --> 01:06:22,876
Speaker 1: those behaviors will transmit. The other thing I'll suggest, though,

1330
01:06:23,116 --> 01:06:25,756
Speaker 1: is that you know, if what what I find works

1331
01:06:25,836 --> 01:06:27,676
Speaker 1: so much with our young people today in terms of

1332
01:06:27,716 --> 01:06:30,756
Speaker 1: getting this message out, is really just sharing the data.

1333
01:06:31,556 --> 01:06:33,396
Speaker 1: One of the insights I had from you know, the

1334
01:06:33,476 --> 01:06:36,276
Speaker 1: fact that my happiness class went viral, and I think

1335
01:06:36,756 --> 01:06:38,956
Speaker 1: the fact that Tall's happiness class went viral and so on,

1336
01:06:39,556 --> 01:06:41,356
Speaker 1: is that I think our young people aren't looking for

1337
01:06:41,476 --> 01:06:43,876
Speaker 1: platitudes about the kinds of things they're supposed to do,

1338
01:06:44,196 --> 01:06:45,556
Speaker 1: right like, I think they get a lot of that.

1339
01:06:46,156 --> 01:06:49,316
Speaker 1: I think they're really much more evidence based than previous generations.

1340
01:06:49,356 --> 01:06:51,396
Speaker 1: I think they're like, show me the data, and then

1341
01:06:51,556 --> 01:06:54,196
Speaker 1: I'll do what I need to do. And I think that,

1342
01:06:54,436 --> 01:06:56,116
Speaker 1: you know, in the case of happiness studies, we just

1343
01:06:56,156 --> 01:06:58,276
Speaker 1: have tons of data on the simple kinds of behavior

1344
01:06:58,356 --> 01:07:00,796
Speaker 1: and mindset changes you can make to feel happier. And

1345
01:07:00,916 --> 01:07:02,716
Speaker 1: so I think, rather than tell them what to do,

1346
01:07:02,956 --> 01:07:04,836
Speaker 1: show them what they can do. Like, you know, hey,

1347
01:07:04,916 --> 01:07:06,596
Speaker 1: did you know there's a study that you just talk

1348
01:07:06,676 --> 01:07:08,996
Speaker 1: to somebody, you know, in the grocery store, you'll wind

1349
01:07:09,036 --> 01:07:09,916
Speaker 1: up feeling happier.

1350
01:07:10,316 --> 01:07:10,516
Speaker 3: Huh.

1351
01:07:10,756 --> 01:07:10,916
Speaker 4: You know.

1352
01:07:11,276 --> 01:07:13,316
Speaker 1: It's kind of like pointing them to the water, but

1353
01:07:13,476 --> 01:07:15,196
Speaker 1: not trying to force them to drink. Give them a

1354
01:07:15,236 --> 01:07:17,276
Speaker 1: sense of the kinds of things they can do, and

1355
01:07:17,396 --> 01:07:19,756
Speaker 1: I find that that can be much more powerful than

1356
01:07:19,796 --> 01:07:20,316
Speaker 1: you expect.

1357
01:07:21,556 --> 01:07:21,756
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1358
01:07:22,276 --> 01:07:25,356
Speaker 3: You know, my wife just recently shared a study with

1359
01:07:25,996 --> 01:07:29,356
Speaker 3: our kids that's part of the Harvard study that doing

1360
01:07:29,516 --> 01:07:33,196
Speaker 3: house chores contributes to self esteem, well being in success,

1361
01:07:33,716 --> 01:07:35,116
Speaker 3: and I actually think it helped.

1362
01:07:38,476 --> 01:07:40,556
Speaker 1: Another general thing I talk a lot about on the

1363
01:07:40,636 --> 01:07:43,516
Speaker 1: podcast is that sometimes when we want people to do

1364
01:07:43,676 --> 01:07:47,556
Speaker 1: something are easy, the easiest way we think we can

1365
01:07:47,596 --> 01:07:48,836
Speaker 1: get them to do it is to tell them to

1366
01:07:48,916 --> 01:07:51,796
Speaker 1: do that, right, But if we reflect on how we

1367
01:07:51,956 --> 01:07:54,876
Speaker 1: get motivated to do things, we instantly realize what a

1368
01:07:54,916 --> 01:07:57,516
Speaker 1: bad strategy that is. Right, like the way to get

1369
01:07:57,516 --> 01:07:59,276
Speaker 1: the dishwasher never to get empty. It just from my

1370
01:07:59,356 --> 01:08:01,116
Speaker 1: husband to like nag me about it, right, I could

1371
01:08:01,156 --> 01:08:02,996
Speaker 1: have been immediately about to go to the dishwasher, but

1372
01:08:03,036 --> 01:08:04,516
Speaker 1: he's like, are you gonna empty the dishwasher? I'm like, no,

1373
01:08:04,596 --> 01:08:06,276
Speaker 1: I'm not, I'm going. You know, Like, those are the

1374
01:08:06,356 --> 01:08:10,076
Speaker 1: kinds of dynamics that we have as we often forget

1375
01:08:10,156 --> 01:08:12,636
Speaker 1: that with our kids. We're often in the mode of

1376
01:08:12,916 --> 01:08:15,956
Speaker 1: telling rather than showing, right, and I think if we

1377
01:08:16,036 --> 01:08:18,196
Speaker 1: can get back to the mode of showing, either through

1378
01:08:18,236 --> 01:08:20,836
Speaker 1: our own behavior or just like you know, revealing the

1379
01:08:20,916 --> 01:08:23,316
Speaker 1: consequences of different forms of action, you know, kind of

1380
01:08:23,316 --> 01:08:24,636
Speaker 1: like you were saying tall, like, hey, did you know

1381
01:08:24,716 --> 01:08:28,076
Speaker 1: that doing chores like actually increases self esteem? Like these

1382
01:08:28,116 --> 01:08:30,916
Speaker 1: folks are like smart agentave individuals, even if they're a

1383
01:08:30,916 --> 01:08:33,276
Speaker 1: little younger than us, and they're going to hear kind

1384
01:08:33,276 --> 01:08:35,356
Speaker 1: of what they should do and be more likely to

1385
01:08:35,476 --> 01:08:37,876
Speaker 1: engage in it when they kind of figure it out

1386
01:08:37,916 --> 01:08:39,996
Speaker 1: on their own and make a decision themselves that hey,

1387
01:08:40,036 --> 01:08:42,076
Speaker 1: this might be a good thing to engage with rather

1388
01:08:42,196 --> 01:08:43,756
Speaker 1: than you just sort of telling them or try or

1389
01:08:43,876 --> 01:08:46,196
Speaker 1: or trying to force them or give them rewards for

1390
01:08:46,276 --> 01:08:49,316
Speaker 1: it or so on. Find letting them find their own

1391
01:08:49,356 --> 01:08:52,396
Speaker 1: intrinsic motivation is a really powerful strategy.

1392
01:08:53,316 --> 01:08:56,236
Speaker 3: Love that show, thank you, thank you very much. Thank you,

1393
01:08:56,396 --> 01:09:00,876
Speaker 3: Gady Denny, thank you that.

1394
01:09:02,556 --> 01:09:05,476
Speaker 13: So good to see you again. I am wondering how

1395
01:09:05,596 --> 01:09:09,236
Speaker 13: I have a six year old who is here, and

1396
01:09:09,556 --> 01:09:12,236
Speaker 13: sometimes I wonder what can I do for him to

1397
01:09:12,756 --> 01:09:16,316
Speaker 13: remain happier I feel happy for the rest of his

1398
01:09:16,476 --> 01:09:20,316
Speaker 13: life because sometimes although he's a lot of life and everything,

1399
01:09:20,476 --> 01:09:22,756
Speaker 13: at some points I see that he becomes in this

1400
01:09:22,916 --> 01:09:28,556
Speaker 13: stage of adaptation, and so I wonder how can I

1401
01:09:28,596 --> 01:09:32,756
Speaker 13: explain him without that to continue his happiness?

1402
01:09:33,596 --> 01:09:34,076
Speaker 6: So thank you.

1403
01:09:35,356 --> 01:09:37,116
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think I think that's a spot when

1404
01:09:37,116 --> 01:09:42,396
Speaker 1: you're dealing with younger kids where your actions matter a lot, right,

1405
01:09:42,556 --> 01:09:46,156
Speaker 1: watching your behavior matters a lot. I think I think

1406
01:09:46,396 --> 01:09:48,756
Speaker 1: we kind of implicitly know this a little bit with

1407
01:09:48,876 --> 01:09:50,116
Speaker 1: the not so good behaviors.

1408
01:09:50,556 --> 01:09:50,676
Speaker 14: Right.

1409
01:09:50,756 --> 01:09:53,196
Speaker 1: You know, what's one way to get kids really addicted

1410
01:09:53,236 --> 01:09:55,276
Speaker 1: to screens is if they see you on your screen

1411
01:09:55,756 --> 01:09:58,076
Speaker 1: all the time, right, they're gonna cut they is you know.

1412
01:09:58,556 --> 01:10:00,076
Speaker 1: You know another thing in my house is when you

1413
01:10:00,076 --> 01:10:02,116
Speaker 1: hear your parents wear and the kid instantly picks up

1414
01:10:02,156 --> 01:10:04,276
Speaker 1: on the bad word that they're not supposed to say. Right,

1415
01:10:04,636 --> 01:10:07,396
Speaker 1: you know, they're they're soaking that stuff up, but they're

1416
01:10:07,436 --> 01:10:09,876
Speaker 1: also soaking the good stuff up, Right. So I think

1417
01:10:09,956 --> 01:10:12,636
Speaker 1: that the more you can engage in these practices, the

1418
01:10:12,716 --> 01:10:14,796
Speaker 1: more they're kind of learning the right kinds of things

1419
01:10:14,876 --> 01:10:17,636
Speaker 1: to do. One I think matters a lot for parents

1420
01:10:18,076 --> 01:10:21,556
Speaker 1: is really talking through the emotions you're going through, especially

1421
01:10:21,596 --> 01:10:22,636
Speaker 1: if they're bad emotions.

1422
01:10:22,796 --> 01:10:22,916
Speaker 6: Right.

1423
01:10:23,636 --> 01:10:25,676
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that we can do

1424
01:10:25,836 --> 01:10:28,036
Speaker 1: mindset shift, we can engage in to feel a lot better,

1425
01:10:28,156 --> 01:10:30,596
Speaker 1: is to give ourself some self compassion when we're not

1426
01:10:30,716 --> 01:10:31,636
Speaker 1: having a good time.

1427
01:10:31,836 --> 01:10:31,956
Speaker 3: Right.

1428
01:10:32,276 --> 01:10:34,796
Speaker 1: I think this is a talk through you that really

1429
01:10:34,916 --> 01:10:36,036
Speaker 1: helps with kids.

1430
01:10:36,156 --> 01:10:36,276
Speaker 5: Right.

1431
01:10:36,516 --> 01:10:39,396
Speaker 1: You know, mommy's feeling really frustrated today and she's having

1432
01:10:39,436 --> 01:10:42,556
Speaker 1: a bad day. I'm actually feeling really frustrated and maybe

1433
01:10:42,596 --> 01:10:44,636
Speaker 1: a little lonely. What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna call,

1434
01:10:44,836 --> 01:10:46,516
Speaker 1: you know, call my sister tonight, because that's what I

1435
01:10:46,596 --> 01:10:48,596
Speaker 1: need to do. But like, it's okay, everybody goes through

1436
01:10:48,636 --> 01:10:52,116
Speaker 1: bad emotions. Like that kind of stream of consciousness set

1437
01:10:52,156 --> 01:10:54,676
Speaker 1: out loud teaches kids' words for emotions so they know

1438
01:10:54,756 --> 01:10:56,516
Speaker 1: it's not just a yucky feeling. You can be feeling

1439
01:10:56,556 --> 01:11:00,356
Speaker 1: frustrated or lonely or sad or angry or whatever, and

1440
01:11:00,516 --> 01:11:02,796
Speaker 1: it kind of lets you articulate what you're going to

1441
01:11:02,876 --> 01:11:04,716
Speaker 1: do that. It's okay that you're going through it. Everybody

1442
01:11:04,756 --> 01:11:06,436
Speaker 1: goes through it, but here's what I'm going to do

1443
01:11:06,556 --> 01:11:11,276
Speaker 1: to fix it. Those are powerful practices for little kids

1444
01:11:11,356 --> 01:11:16,436
Speaker 1: to hear. When we finished our projects of sharing some

1445
01:11:16,556 --> 01:11:20,076
Speaker 1: of these happiness strategies with teenagers, we also did a

1446
01:11:20,156 --> 01:11:22,996
Speaker 1: project with Sesame Workshop, which is the group in the

1447
01:11:23,156 --> 01:11:26,036
Speaker 1: US that build Sesame Street, to try to think about, like, well,

1448
01:11:26,076 --> 01:11:28,036
Speaker 1: what are ways we can fill this into little kids.

1449
01:11:28,076 --> 01:11:30,796
Speaker 1: And one of the most powerful ways we figured out

1450
01:11:30,876 --> 01:11:33,396
Speaker 1: is like, well, parents can articulate some of these things too, right,

1451
01:11:33,476 --> 01:11:35,756
Speaker 1: Parents behavior matters. This is like a lot of the

1452
01:11:35,876 --> 01:11:39,196
Speaker 1: direct transmission we have, and so finding ways to just

1453
01:11:39,516 --> 01:11:42,276
Speaker 1: articulate what you're going through let them hear it. They'll

1454
01:11:42,316 --> 01:11:45,556
Speaker 1: pick up on it, not immediately, not perfectly, not one

1455
01:11:45,596 --> 01:11:48,276
Speaker 1: hundred percent of the time, but you're getting that information

1456
01:11:48,396 --> 01:11:50,756
Speaker 1: in there in a way that you'll be surprised, will

1457
01:11:50,756 --> 01:11:52,076
Speaker 1: stick when you least expect it.

1458
01:11:52,836 --> 01:11:59,196
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's that. And just to add to that stories,

1459
01:12:00,036 --> 01:12:04,636
Speaker 3: whether it's stories of you know Mom, or stories off

1460
01:12:04,916 --> 01:12:08,956
Speaker 3: you know Grandpa, or story of you know of Helen,

1461
01:12:10,116 --> 01:12:13,636
Speaker 3: and stories that the children that that that have a

1462
01:12:15,076 --> 01:12:18,516
Speaker 3: value base that communicate any important and this is.

1463
01:12:18,516 --> 01:12:20,196
Speaker 1: One of the things I think you all do so well.

1464
01:12:20,276 --> 01:12:22,716
Speaker 1: And the Happiness Studies Academy, right, is that not only

1465
01:12:22,716 --> 01:12:24,756
Speaker 1: are you're not just focused on psychology, but you're also

1466
01:12:24,836 --> 01:12:28,116
Speaker 1: focused on the system and focused on neuroscience. You're also

1467
01:12:28,196 --> 01:12:30,636
Speaker 1: focused on the ways that we often share a narrative

1468
01:12:30,676 --> 01:12:31,596
Speaker 1: about our values.

1469
01:12:31,756 --> 01:12:31,876
Speaker 5: Right.

1470
01:12:31,916 --> 01:12:34,356
Speaker 1: You know, I love that there's novels and movies that

1471
01:12:34,516 --> 01:12:36,916
Speaker 1: you are all studying as part of the academy because

1472
01:12:36,916 --> 01:12:40,396
Speaker 1: these can be fantastic ways to learn about our emotions,

1473
01:12:40,436 --> 01:12:42,196
Speaker 1: to learn what we value, to learn what are the

1474
01:12:42,316 --> 01:12:44,756
Speaker 1: kinds of paths to a flourishing life. So yeah, that

1475
01:12:44,836 --> 01:12:46,956
Speaker 1: earlier we can get those good stories into our kids,

1476
01:12:47,036 --> 01:12:47,356
Speaker 1: the better.

1477
01:12:47,636 --> 01:12:49,076
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you so much.

1478
01:12:49,116 --> 01:12:51,116
Speaker 13: It's a pleasure to see you both here together.

1479
01:12:51,316 --> 01:12:54,276
Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you, thank you.

1480
01:12:55,676 --> 01:12:56,116
Speaker 3: Sandy.

1481
01:12:58,836 --> 01:13:03,116
Speaker 15: Yes, hello, I wanted to circle back on the social

1482
01:13:03,156 --> 01:13:06,556
Speaker 15: connection piece and really really unpack it at the micro level.

1483
01:13:06,596 --> 01:13:08,796
Speaker 15: I know Sandy had that excellent question at the macro

1484
01:13:08,876 --> 01:13:12,596
Speaker 15: level and we've been sprinkling it throughout, but kind of

1485
01:13:12,636 --> 01:13:19,756
Speaker 15: the dynamic between still feeling loneliness but not necessarily being alone. Right,

1486
01:13:19,836 --> 01:13:22,356
Speaker 15: So you're in a crowd or you're with people, you're

1487
01:13:22,436 --> 01:13:24,636
Speaker 15: talking to people, and yet you still come away from

1488
01:13:24,636 --> 01:13:29,876
Speaker 15: the situation feeling lonely. I heard a podcast about this peripherally,

1489
01:13:30,036 --> 01:13:34,036
Speaker 15: about you know, small talk versus deeply connecting around things

1490
01:13:34,596 --> 01:13:36,716
Speaker 15: that bring you meaning, but things that light you up.

1491
01:13:37,676 --> 01:13:39,996
Speaker 15: But I'm interested in how it plays out in like

1492
01:13:40,116 --> 01:13:45,636
Speaker 15: different human ecosystems, Like are there studies around gender norms

1493
01:13:45,756 --> 01:13:49,756
Speaker 15: or even cultural norms about what gets talked about and

1494
01:13:50,316 --> 01:13:55,076
Speaker 15: how does that facilitate building the connection, or even like

1495
01:13:55,156 --> 01:13:59,036
Speaker 15: in microcosms of small communities that everyone knows each other

1496
01:13:59,156 --> 01:14:02,476
Speaker 15: and so there's you know, worry around gossip. I saw

1497
01:14:02,516 --> 01:14:05,916
Speaker 15: this on the small college campus I worked at, and

1498
01:14:06,036 --> 01:14:08,556
Speaker 15: so people have struggle with being vulnerable because they're worried

1499
01:14:08,556 --> 01:14:14,516
Speaker 15: about gotha. And also is the relationship transactional on nature

1500
01:14:14,676 --> 01:14:17,476
Speaker 15: or does it focus on connection first? So if you

1501
01:14:17,516 --> 01:14:19,436
Speaker 15: can unpack any of that, that would be great.

1502
01:14:19,916 --> 01:14:21,556
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, I think that's a great question, and

1503
01:14:21,596 --> 01:14:24,996
Speaker 1: I think it's worth thinking about how loneliness can emerge

1504
01:14:25,036 --> 01:14:27,076
Speaker 1: due to our kind of fears about being vulnerable in

1505
01:14:27,116 --> 01:14:29,956
Speaker 1: these populations, whether it's you know, gossip on a college campus,

1506
01:14:30,396 --> 01:14:32,556
Speaker 1: you know, connecting with folks at work, right, you know,

1507
01:14:32,676 --> 01:14:34,556
Speaker 1: this is something I think about a lot that you know,

1508
01:14:34,676 --> 01:14:36,676
Speaker 1: work is not a third space. It's like, you know,

1509
01:14:36,876 --> 01:14:38,956
Speaker 1: home works like the second space, but it's a spot

1510
01:14:38,996 --> 01:14:40,956
Speaker 1: where we spend a lot of time with other people,

1511
01:14:41,236 --> 01:14:43,156
Speaker 1: you know, where we really could be boosting our social

1512
01:14:43,196 --> 01:14:46,076
Speaker 1: connection and our vulnerability if we wanted to write. And

1513
01:14:46,156 --> 01:14:48,756
Speaker 1: so my read of the data is that pretty much

1514
01:14:48,836 --> 01:14:51,636
Speaker 1: what it says is that the path to feeling connected

1515
01:14:51,716 --> 01:14:54,836
Speaker 1: and feeling less lonely is in some ways like as

1516
01:14:55,076 --> 01:14:57,396
Speaker 1: about as universal as they come, right, which is that

1517
01:14:57,556 --> 01:15:00,196
Speaker 1: you need to share and get vulnerable with other people,

1518
01:15:00,716 --> 01:15:03,236
Speaker 1: and often a way to do that is through a

1519
01:15:03,316 --> 01:15:07,076
Speaker 1: little bit deeper conversation. Right. This is again some work

1520
01:15:07,116 --> 01:15:09,476
Speaker 1: by Nick Eppie and his colleagues where he points out

1521
01:15:09,476 --> 01:15:11,916
Speaker 1: that we're often having shallow conversation. We're talking about the weather,

1522
01:15:12,276 --> 01:15:14,356
Speaker 1: you know, what sports game we're gonna but we're not

1523
01:15:14,476 --> 01:15:17,836
Speaker 1: talking about the things that reveal our values, right, We're

1524
01:15:17,876 --> 01:15:20,236
Speaker 1: not talking about the things that really matter. And I

1525
01:15:20,316 --> 01:15:22,596
Speaker 1: think that's the kind of conversation we need to get to,

1526
01:15:23,116 --> 01:15:25,996
Speaker 1: right where we're really kind of sharing the kinds of

1527
01:15:26,076 --> 01:15:29,716
Speaker 1: things that matter. And you know, there's some nuance there,

1528
01:15:29,756 --> 01:15:32,996
Speaker 1: of course, but that kind of strategy can work often

1529
01:15:33,156 --> 01:15:36,916
Speaker 1: in lots of different situations, right, you know, take again

1530
01:15:36,956 --> 01:15:38,676
Speaker 1: the kind of idea of friendship at work. I think

1531
01:15:38,716 --> 01:15:40,276
Speaker 1: this is when we're like, well, we definitely don't want

1532
01:15:40,316 --> 01:15:41,916
Speaker 1: to overshare at work, and there's things that you know,

1533
01:15:41,956 --> 01:15:44,276
Speaker 1: there are different boundary conditions and so on, but all

1534
01:15:44,316 --> 01:15:46,156
Speaker 1: of us can share a little bit about what's going on,

1535
01:15:46,276 --> 01:15:49,116
Speaker 1: and all of us can ask questions. Often the path

1536
01:15:49,276 --> 01:15:52,676
Speaker 1: to reducing our loneliness isn't about getting other people to

1537
01:15:52,796 --> 01:15:55,716
Speaker 1: know us, but it's about asking questions that allow us

1538
01:15:55,796 --> 01:15:57,876
Speaker 1: to get to know other people, which is sort of

1539
01:15:57,916 --> 01:15:58,756
Speaker 1: always on the table.

1540
01:15:58,876 --> 01:15:58,996
Speaker 5: You know.

1541
01:15:59,076 --> 01:16:00,476
Speaker 1: So if a friend, you know, hey, what are you know?

1542
01:16:00,556 --> 01:16:02,356
Speaker 1: You're at work? Oh, like what are you doing this weekend?

1543
01:16:02,476 --> 01:16:04,636
Speaker 1: Like oh, you know, I'm like, you know, I don't

1544
01:16:04,756 --> 01:16:06,596
Speaker 1: go on to Rhode Island for the weekend, or something like, oh,

1545
01:16:07,116 --> 01:16:08,796
Speaker 1: what's in Rhode Island? How did you connect with that?

1546
01:16:09,156 --> 01:16:09,836
Speaker 1: You a family there?

1547
01:16:09,956 --> 01:16:10,076
Speaker 4: Right?

1548
01:16:10,156 --> 01:16:12,196
Speaker 1: Like that that's not a kind of overshere that's going

1549
01:16:12,276 --> 01:16:15,436
Speaker 1: to get you into hr trouble. It's just trying to understand, Oh,

1550
01:16:15,476 --> 01:16:17,916
Speaker 1: you're going fishing, Like how did you decide to go fishing?

1551
01:16:17,996 --> 01:16:19,956
Speaker 1: Like when did you start doing that? As a kid, right, like,

1552
01:16:20,156 --> 01:16:21,676
Speaker 1: what's your favorite part about fishing?

1553
01:16:21,836 --> 01:16:21,956
Speaker 8: Right?

1554
01:16:22,356 --> 01:16:24,676
Speaker 1: Like those questions where you can kind of get to

1555
01:16:24,796 --> 01:16:28,076
Speaker 1: know people like one more step deep, more and more deeply,

1556
01:16:28,476 --> 01:16:30,716
Speaker 1: and that can resonate a lot with kind of feeling

1557
01:16:30,796 --> 01:16:32,396
Speaker 1: more connected because the next thing is they're going to

1558
01:16:32,396 --> 01:16:34,196
Speaker 1: ask you the same thing and you'll feel a little

1559
01:16:34,236 --> 01:16:36,956
Speaker 1: bit better. And so I think the instinct in whatever

1560
01:16:37,116 --> 01:16:40,476
Speaker 1: situation we're in is actually to go like half a

1561
01:16:40,556 --> 01:16:43,436
Speaker 1: step deeper than we would normally go in that situation,

1562
01:16:43,956 --> 01:16:47,436
Speaker 1: and when in doubt, ask other people questions, right like,

1563
01:16:47,676 --> 01:16:49,956
Speaker 1: really try to follow up and get curious with them,

1564
01:16:50,276 --> 01:16:52,876
Speaker 1: because that's really a quick path to getting to know

1565
01:16:53,156 --> 01:16:55,916
Speaker 1: someone else, and it might even be a quick path

1566
01:16:56,236 --> 01:16:59,436
Speaker 1: to kind of overcoming some of the political divides we

1567
01:16:59,516 --> 01:17:03,276
Speaker 1: were talking about before. One of my favorite strategies for

1568
01:17:03,476 --> 01:17:06,956
Speaker 1: having tough conversations and even seeing eye to eye across

1569
01:17:07,316 --> 01:17:11,236
Speaker 1: political lit differences is this lovely work on deep canvassing.

1570
01:17:11,356 --> 01:17:13,316
Speaker 1: This is a work of Josh Kalla. He's a colleague

1571
01:17:13,316 --> 01:17:15,516
Speaker 1: of mine at Yale, where he asked the question, like,

1572
01:17:15,596 --> 01:17:16,956
Speaker 1: you know, what are what are the ways that we

1573
01:17:17,076 --> 01:17:18,436
Speaker 1: might be able to see eye to eye on these

1574
01:17:18,516 --> 01:17:20,916
Speaker 1: tough issues, and he says, well, rather than kind of

1575
01:17:20,996 --> 01:17:23,356
Speaker 1: perspective giving of like, hey, here's you know what I

1576
01:17:23,396 --> 01:17:25,996
Speaker 1: think about the issue I care about, do some perspective

1577
01:17:26,036 --> 01:17:30,196
Speaker 1: getting So, for example, he does a study on individuals

1578
01:17:30,236 --> 01:17:34,276
Speaker 1: who are kind of you know, anti LGBDQ issues, right,

1579
01:17:34,316 --> 01:17:36,916
Speaker 1: maybe anti trans rites and so on. And what he'll

1580
01:17:36,956 --> 01:17:39,476
Speaker 1: do is go up to folks during a canvassing situation

1581
01:17:40,116 --> 01:17:41,916
Speaker 1: and rather than say, hey, let me tell you about

1582
01:17:41,916 --> 01:17:43,556
Speaker 1: an experience you know, I had as a queer person

1583
01:17:43,596 --> 01:17:45,996
Speaker 1: that was really tough, he'll say, hey, person i'm talking

1584
01:17:46,076 --> 01:17:48,716
Speaker 1: to what was a situation where you felt like you

1585
01:17:48,796 --> 01:17:51,316
Speaker 1: didn't really belong or you felt really marginalized, or you

1586
01:17:51,316 --> 01:17:54,196
Speaker 1: felt somebody didn't get you. And he does this work,

1587
01:17:54,276 --> 01:17:55,836
Speaker 1: you know, in situations where there are a lot of

1588
01:17:55,876 --> 01:17:59,396
Speaker 1: individuals who are you know, not as familiar with queer individuals. Right,

1589
01:17:59,436 --> 01:18:01,076
Speaker 1: So they'll say, you know, well, one time I was

1590
01:18:01,476 --> 01:18:03,676
Speaker 1: in the military and I had PTSD and no one

1591
01:18:03,756 --> 01:18:07,036
Speaker 1: really understood it and stuff. The individual who's canvassing will

1592
01:18:07,156 --> 01:18:09,516
Speaker 1: sit and listen to that for a while, right, and

1593
01:18:09,596 --> 01:18:11,716
Speaker 1: you say, huh, you know that situation which you felt

1594
01:18:11,796 --> 01:18:13,876
Speaker 1: like you didn't belong, Like that's the kind of thing

1595
01:18:14,036 --> 01:18:16,756
Speaker 1: A lot of queer people go through in their situations right,

1596
01:18:17,116 --> 01:18:19,996
Speaker 1: and like they're making a connection, right. But the key

1597
01:18:20,076 --> 01:18:23,556
Speaker 1: to canvassing is you're asking the question first, you're listening.

1598
01:18:23,876 --> 01:18:27,356
Speaker 1: And Colla's work suggests that it doesn't necessarily, you know,

1599
01:18:27,516 --> 01:18:31,396
Speaker 1: completely change people's political opinions, but it gets everybody to

1600
01:18:31,556 --> 01:18:34,396
Speaker 1: listen to the lived experience of other folks, and it

1601
01:18:34,476 --> 01:18:37,036
Speaker 1: gets people to kind of, you know, not necessarily see

1602
01:18:37,036 --> 01:18:39,116
Speaker 1: to I to I, and maybe not change the situations,

1603
01:18:39,156 --> 01:18:42,396
Speaker 1: but to hear them and often to realize that there's

1604
01:18:42,556 --> 01:18:45,836
Speaker 1: more in common than you actually think. One are the

1605
01:18:45,916 --> 01:18:47,996
Speaker 1: examples that comes not from Josh's work, but this is

1606
01:18:48,036 --> 01:18:50,156
Speaker 1: from the work of Jamal Zaki, who is also doing

1607
01:18:50,196 --> 01:18:53,196
Speaker 1: this lovely work on having these tough political conversations where

1608
01:18:53,236 --> 01:18:55,916
Speaker 1: you ask questions, is you often have these situations where

1609
01:18:55,916 --> 01:18:57,956
Speaker 1: people actually see eye to eye more than you realize.

1610
01:18:58,036 --> 01:19:01,156
Speaker 1: Jamil did ones on gun violence, right, should we be

1611
01:19:01,236 --> 01:19:02,036
Speaker 1: able to own guns?

1612
01:19:02,116 --> 01:19:02,436
Speaker 5: And so on?

1613
01:19:02,996 --> 01:19:05,076
Speaker 1: And he had someone who was going to staunchly anti

1614
01:19:05,156 --> 01:19:07,316
Speaker 1: gun talk to someone who is pro gun, and the

1615
01:19:07,356 --> 01:19:10,196
Speaker 1: pro gun person said, you know, so I live in

1616
01:19:10,236 --> 01:19:13,316
Speaker 1: the South, I'm actually queer, and I'm afraid all the time,

1617
01:19:13,436 --> 01:19:15,436
Speaker 1: and so owning a gun makes me feel a little

1618
01:19:15,436 --> 01:19:18,316
Speaker 1: bit safer, right, And that might not be the you know,

1619
01:19:18,436 --> 01:19:20,956
Speaker 1: the stereotype you have about the person who's going to be,

1620
01:19:21,076 --> 01:19:23,036
Speaker 1: you know, super pro gun. And it wasn't like the

1621
01:19:23,076 --> 01:19:24,876
Speaker 1: anti gun person was like, oh, we should all have gun,

1622
01:19:24,916 --> 01:19:26,796
Speaker 1: but it was like, oh, I see eye to eye

1623
01:19:26,836 --> 01:19:29,516
Speaker 1: a little bit more. I get your lived experience. I

1624
01:19:29,676 --> 01:19:32,436
Speaker 1: don't feel as alienated from you. I feel like we

1625
01:19:32,516 --> 01:19:35,316
Speaker 1: can actually have the conversation and start that. But the

1626
01:19:35,396 --> 01:19:37,956
Speaker 1: point is that all starts from listening. It starts with

1627
01:19:38,036 --> 01:19:40,276
Speaker 1: getting curious and asking questions, which I think is the

1628
01:19:40,356 --> 01:19:42,676
Speaker 1: key to you know, maybe seeing a little bit better

1629
01:19:42,716 --> 01:19:45,676
Speaker 1: across political divides. But it's also the key to reducing

1630
01:19:45,716 --> 01:19:46,396
Speaker 1: our loneliness.

1631
01:19:48,316 --> 01:19:50,316
Speaker 3: Yeah. I like that a lot, Laurie. You know, so

1632
01:19:50,396 --> 01:19:53,596
Speaker 3: on the one hand, you want to share and be vulnerable,

1633
01:19:53,756 --> 01:19:55,996
Speaker 3: and on the other hand you want to ask questions

1634
01:19:56,036 --> 01:19:59,476
Speaker 3: and listen. So both input and outputs, and that's how

1635
01:19:59,556 --> 01:20:04,236
Speaker 3: you create. So share and vulnerability and ask questions and listen.

1636
01:20:04,876 --> 01:20:08,476
Speaker 3: It's great. So I think we have time for one more.

1637
01:20:09,116 --> 01:20:11,756
Speaker 3: I'm going to take two more. The first one, Christiana

1638
01:20:14,716 --> 01:20:15,796
Speaker 3: a little toll, Thank you.

1639
01:20:16,556 --> 01:20:17,556
Speaker 6: Hello, Laurie.

1640
01:20:17,756 --> 01:20:22,676
Speaker 5: I met you in Lago di Coomoa. Remember I said

1641
01:20:22,716 --> 01:20:26,716
Speaker 5: a lot of sentence. You said, because the only one

1642
01:20:26,756 --> 01:20:31,516
Speaker 5: who can pronounce my last name correctly. Rate seeing you

1643
01:20:31,756 --> 01:20:36,396
Speaker 5: here with all and having this inspiring conversation. I just

1644
01:20:36,556 --> 01:20:40,556
Speaker 5: graduated from the master in the Science of happiness. We thought,

1645
01:20:40,556 --> 01:20:45,076
Speaker 5: oh yes, very happy, and I had two pneumatic leaderships

1646
01:20:45,116 --> 01:20:50,636
Speaker 5: here inspire me. Today I'm gonna have an important lecture

1647
01:20:51,076 --> 01:20:55,476
Speaker 5: at a place near my parents' house in San Paulo.

1648
01:20:56,276 --> 01:21:00,996
Speaker 5: And I always get excited because intensity can be my

1649
01:21:01,516 --> 01:21:05,076
Speaker 5: strange and also my weakness to take everything that we

1650
01:21:05,276 --> 01:21:08,236
Speaker 5: know from the signs of happiness and how can help people.

1651
01:21:09,156 --> 01:21:12,396
Speaker 3: And one thing that always says is you teach.

1652
01:21:12,356 --> 01:21:15,556
Speaker 5: You trying to connect with that. But I would like

1653
01:21:15,676 --> 01:21:19,916
Speaker 5: to love to listen from both of you, very experienced teachers.

1654
01:21:20,276 --> 01:21:24,276
Speaker 5: All this path have created, both in Hervard and in Yale,

1655
01:21:24,836 --> 01:21:27,556
Speaker 5: a problem that became the most popular ones.

1656
01:21:28,476 --> 01:21:30,716
Speaker 8: If you need to take something.

1657
01:21:30,596 --> 01:21:36,556
Speaker 14: Out there to talk about happiness, what would be We're

1658
01:21:36,636 --> 01:21:40,436
Speaker 14: not two key messages that you really think that help

1659
01:21:40,636 --> 01:21:43,516
Speaker 14: people that they need right at this moment.

1660
01:21:44,276 --> 01:21:46,836
Speaker 1: MM well, I think that the way you know, the

1661
01:21:47,036 --> 01:21:49,396
Speaker 1: way to do the talks best is to use as

1662
01:21:49,436 --> 01:21:51,716
Speaker 1: many stories as possible. I mean, I think what Chyle's

1663
01:21:51,716 --> 01:21:54,116
Speaker 1: talking about is you teach you is like, find something

1664
01:21:54,156 --> 01:21:56,756
Speaker 1: that resonates with you, a story and narrative you can share,

1665
01:21:56,756 --> 01:21:59,356
Speaker 1: and that's going to be powerful. But on the one

1666
01:21:59,436 --> 01:22:02,196
Speaker 1: topic that I think I wish everyone knew about happiness,

1667
01:22:02,476 --> 01:22:05,316
Speaker 1: you know, it might be the theme of this overall webinar, right,

1668
01:22:05,396 --> 01:22:08,596
Speaker 1: which is that you can change, you can train your happiness.

1669
01:22:08,716 --> 01:22:10,516
Speaker 1: You know, if you're not feeling good right now, there

1670
01:22:10,556 --> 01:22:12,956
Speaker 1: are behaviors who can engage in mindset shifts you can

1671
01:22:12,996 --> 01:22:15,676
Speaker 1: engage in to just feel better, and I think that

1672
01:22:15,836 --> 01:22:17,556
Speaker 1: can be so empowering for people.

1673
01:22:19,196 --> 01:22:22,796
Speaker 3: Thank you, Lever So, yeah, thank you for this, Laura.

1674
01:22:22,836 --> 01:22:26,876
Speaker 3: And I'm gonna quote someone whom you've heard me quote

1675
01:22:26,956 --> 01:22:32,396
Speaker 3: Christiana many times before, Carl Rogers, who wrote that what

1676
01:22:32,596 --> 01:22:38,156
Speaker 3: is most personal is most general. So I remember the

1677
01:22:38,756 --> 01:22:43,796
Speaker 3: Dali Lama once said, I'm all for cross cultural research,

1678
01:22:44,036 --> 01:22:46,556
Speaker 3: which is very important and we need to do more

1679
01:22:46,596 --> 01:22:50,116
Speaker 3: of it. What we mustn't lose sight of is the

1680
01:22:50,276 --> 01:22:54,476
Speaker 3: fact that we're also, at the same time very similar,

1681
01:22:54,836 --> 01:22:59,476
Speaker 3: that there is a universal nature. So when you go

1682
01:22:59,756 --> 01:23:03,796
Speaker 3: deep into your own mind, soul, spirit, call it whatever

1683
01:23:04,476 --> 01:23:10,516
Speaker 3: you want, you're also going into the universal spirit, soul

1684
01:23:10,716 --> 01:23:16,636
Speaker 3: and mind, and so you know, look inside again, be

1685
01:23:16,756 --> 01:23:21,116
Speaker 3: prepared to be vulnerable and share, look outside, ask questions

1686
01:23:21,716 --> 01:23:26,076
Speaker 3: and listen. Thank you are both such an inspiration. Thank you,

1687
01:23:26,276 --> 01:23:29,076
Speaker 3: thank you, Thank you so Alyssa. Can you make this

1688
01:23:29,276 --> 01:23:30,796
Speaker 3: very short? I can go.

1689
01:23:31,356 --> 01:23:33,436
Speaker 9: I can thank you very much for both doing this

1690
01:23:33,596 --> 01:23:38,036
Speaker 9: for free. Doctor Lourie. I picked your class five years

1691
01:23:38,076 --> 01:23:40,556
Speaker 9: and five years ago and it was fantastic. Thank you.

1692
01:23:40,796 --> 01:23:43,876
Speaker 9: Here's my question. Yeah, I remember, I have the notes

1693
01:23:43,876 --> 01:23:45,676
Speaker 9: in front of me. I have two quick things to say,

1694
01:23:45,756 --> 01:23:48,436
Speaker 9: and they'll be brief. One was when we had this class,

1695
01:23:48,556 --> 01:23:51,996
Speaker 9: you talked about random acts of kindness like you mentioned

1696
01:23:52,276 --> 01:23:54,516
Speaker 9: to the barrista. And the second thing that I don't

1697
01:23:54,516 --> 01:23:57,476
Speaker 9: think was discussed but thought you could consider doing the

1698
01:23:57,556 --> 01:24:00,596
Speaker 9: two of you, is about try new fun things to

1699
01:24:00,716 --> 01:24:03,516
Speaker 9: add your happiness factor. You mentioned this city your prior.

1700
01:24:03,716 --> 01:24:07,076
Speaker 9: I'm take a knitting, take up crocheting, try a new sport,

1701
01:24:07,316 --> 01:24:10,196
Speaker 9: take classes. And so I'm a current seventy year old

1702
01:24:10,236 --> 01:24:14,556
Speaker 9: California resident taking classes through Long Beach State, highly influenced

1703
01:24:14,596 --> 01:24:17,636
Speaker 9: by you. I'm in five classes and at my age,

1704
01:24:17,636 --> 01:24:18,636
Speaker 9: I've actually formed.

1705
01:24:18,396 --> 01:24:20,676
Speaker 1: A small group. We're a band and we perform in

1706
01:24:20,716 --> 01:24:21,636
Speaker 1: cut of California.

1707
01:24:21,716 --> 01:24:24,636
Speaker 9: So that's thanks to you. So if you would mind

1708
01:24:24,676 --> 01:24:28,076
Speaker 9: addressing the random acts of kindness thought and the doing

1709
01:24:28,156 --> 01:24:30,156
Speaker 9: new things to help you become a happier person.

1710
01:24:30,476 --> 01:24:32,436
Speaker 1: Thanks love. I mean this is this is like, you

1711
01:24:32,476 --> 01:24:34,436
Speaker 1: know why it's so tragic to you know, only have

1712
01:24:34,556 --> 01:24:35,996
Speaker 1: such a short time to talk about this when you

1713
01:24:36,036 --> 01:24:39,116
Speaker 1: need a whole academy, But you guess so much data

1714
01:24:39,156 --> 01:24:42,396
Speaker 1: showing the power of random acts of kindness, you know,

1715
01:24:42,436 --> 01:24:45,156
Speaker 1: I think Tall talked about this idea of self full right,

1716
01:24:45,236 --> 01:24:48,196
Speaker 1: they do not selfless or it's you know, kind of selfish.

1717
01:24:48,356 --> 01:24:51,356
Speaker 1: That doing for others, right, kind of being self less

1718
01:24:52,076 --> 01:24:54,676
Speaker 1: is selfish in the fact that it winds up making

1719
01:24:54,716 --> 01:24:57,476
Speaker 1: you feel better. And there's just so much evidence suggesting

1720
01:24:57,556 --> 01:25:00,556
Speaker 1: that doing for others, thinking about others, reaching out to others,

1721
01:25:00,876 --> 01:25:03,316
Speaker 1: it winds up making us even happier than we think.

1722
01:25:03,676 --> 01:25:05,996
Speaker 1: Bias I think everyone should know about is this phenomena

1723
01:25:06,036 --> 01:25:09,916
Speaker 1: of under sociality that we don't predict to the positive

1724
01:25:09,956 --> 01:25:13,436
Speaker 1: effects of sociality nearly as much as they are there. Right,

1725
01:25:13,516 --> 01:25:15,836
Speaker 1: we assume like it'll feel okay to do something nice

1726
01:25:15,876 --> 01:25:18,076
Speaker 1: for someone else, but it feels much better for us

1727
01:25:18,116 --> 01:25:20,876
Speaker 1: than we expect than others. So yes, random acts of kindness.

1728
01:25:20,916 --> 01:25:23,196
Speaker 1: Glad we got that in there. But fun is something

1729
01:25:23,236 --> 01:25:25,036
Speaker 1: we haven't talked about, and I think something that the

1730
01:25:25,356 --> 01:25:27,156
Speaker 1: research really shows can be really important.

1731
01:25:27,956 --> 01:25:28,076
Speaker 5: You know.

1732
01:25:28,236 --> 01:25:30,676
Speaker 1: I think of fun as having these three components. It's

1733
01:25:30,716 --> 01:25:33,036
Speaker 1: a moment where you tend to be really social, right,

1734
01:25:33,076 --> 01:25:35,156
Speaker 1: which we've talked about a lot. It's a moment where

1735
01:25:35,196 --> 01:25:37,396
Speaker 1: you tend to be a little bit present, you know,

1736
01:25:37,436 --> 01:25:39,676
Speaker 1: which you talked about a little bit, these moments of mindfulness.

1737
01:25:40,156 --> 01:25:43,236
Speaker 1: But it's also a moment in which you're often engaged

1738
01:25:43,316 --> 01:25:46,716
Speaker 1: in play, right, just something for the intrinsic joy of

1739
01:25:46,836 --> 01:25:49,756
Speaker 1: doing it. And there's less and less of that stuff

1740
01:25:49,796 --> 01:25:52,436
Speaker 1: out there these days, especially among my college students, where

1741
01:25:52,436 --> 01:25:54,716
Speaker 1: they're always doing something to like boost their resume, or

1742
01:25:54,796 --> 01:25:57,436
Speaker 1: it's a side hustle or something, right, but the act

1743
01:25:57,476 --> 01:26:00,476
Speaker 1: of just doing stuff for fun, these socially connected moments

1744
01:26:00,516 --> 01:26:03,476
Speaker 1: of presence and play, you know, studies really show that

1745
01:26:03,516 --> 01:26:05,236
Speaker 1: they can make you feel better. One of my favorite

1746
01:26:05,236 --> 01:26:07,836
Speaker 1: studies show that play is one of the easiest ways

1747
01:26:07,916 --> 01:26:10,316
Speaker 1: to reduce stress. That college students who tend to say

1748
01:26:10,596 --> 01:26:13,876
Speaker 1: I play a lot actually report less stressed and seem

1749
01:26:13,916 --> 01:26:17,476
Speaker 1: to use play as a coping strategy. So get that

1750
01:26:17,596 --> 01:26:20,356
Speaker 1: play in there, you know, join a join, try out

1751
01:26:20,396 --> 01:26:22,876
Speaker 1: a new hobby, join a singing group, or join a

1752
01:26:22,956 --> 01:26:25,556
Speaker 1: band as you've done, and don't worry about being a

1753
01:26:25,596 --> 01:26:27,796
Speaker 1: beginner because, as we've talked about, your habits will allow

1754
01:26:27,836 --> 01:26:29,756
Speaker 1: you to get better at it over time.

1755
01:26:30,716 --> 01:26:33,276
Speaker 9: Yeah, thank you, thank you, thank.

1756
01:26:33,196 --> 01:26:33,716
Speaker 5: You, thank you.

1757
01:26:33,876 --> 01:26:36,956
Speaker 3: Listen, what a lovely way to end on on fun

1758
01:26:39,036 --> 01:26:42,636
Speaker 3: because you know, while happiness is not the same as fun,

1759
01:26:42,716 --> 01:26:46,956
Speaker 3: funny is an important element of happiness. This has been

1760
01:26:46,996 --> 01:26:52,276
Speaker 3: a lot of fun. Laurie, be meaningful and I can

1761
01:26:52,396 --> 01:26:55,356
Speaker 3: thank you enough for all that you're doing and for

1762
01:26:55,516 --> 01:26:58,276
Speaker 3: taking time to spend with us today.

1763
01:26:58,876 --> 01:27:01,116
Speaker 1: Well, gratitude right back at you. I feel like I'm

1764
01:27:01,196 --> 01:27:03,516
Speaker 1: just like you know, continuing the fine legacy of big

1765
01:27:03,596 --> 01:27:06,756
Speaker 1: ivy leg classes that you begin yourself. So thanks so

1766
01:27:06,916 --> 01:27:08,396
Speaker 1: much for all the work that you do and thanks

1767
01:27:08,396 --> 01:27:09,076
Speaker 1: for having me on today.

1768
01:27:09,716 --> 01:27:12,396
Speaker 3: Great, Thank you, Laurien, thank you all for being here,

1769
01:27:12,836 --> 01:27:16,196
Speaker 3: and again, take good care of yourselves and of others.

1770
01:27:16,796 --> 01:27:20,196
Speaker 1: Bye bye bye, thank you, I thanks, thanks,