WEBVTT - Lucy Boynton

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I'm so glad that you were here doing this.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much.

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<v Speaker 2>Too much for having you.

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<v Speaker 1>How come my little cultural pot one little cultural anthology,

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<v Speaker 1>which is how I lovetily like to think about it.

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<v Speaker 2>I love that.

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<v Speaker 1>Hello, I'm mini driver. I've always loved Preust's questionnaire. It

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<v Speaker 1>was originally in nineteenth century parlor game where players would

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<v Speaker 1>ask each other thirty five questions aimed at revealing the

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<v Speaker 1>other player's true nature. In asking different people the same

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<v Speaker 1>set of questions, you can make observations about which truths

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<v Speaker 1>appear to be universal. And it made me wonder, what

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<v Speaker 1>if these questions were just the jumping off point, what

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<v Speaker 1>greater depths would be revealed if I asked these questions

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<v Speaker 1>as conversation starters. So I adapted Prus's questionnaire and I

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<v Speaker 1>wrote my own seven questions that I personally think are

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<v Speaker 1>pertinent to a person's story.

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<v Speaker 3>They are when and where were you happiest? What is

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<v Speaker 3>the quality you likely about yourself? What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines.

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<v Speaker 1>Love for you?

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<v Speaker 3>What question would you most like answered, What person, place,

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<v Speaker 3>or experience has shaped you the most? What would be

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<v Speaker 3>your last meal? And can you tell me something in

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<v Speaker 3>your life? That's grown out of a personal disaster, and

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<v Speaker 3>I've gathered a group of really remarkable people, ones that

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<v Speaker 3>I am honored and humbled to have had the chance

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<v Speaker 3>to engage with. You may not hear their answers to

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<v Speaker 3>all seven of these questions. We've whittled it down to

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<v Speaker 3>which questions felt closest to their experience, or the most surprising,

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<v Speaker 3>or created the most fertile ground to connect.

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<v Speaker 1>My guest today on Mini Questions is the actor and

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<v Speaker 1>all round excellent person Lucy Boynton. I first met Lucy

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<v Speaker 1>when we were shooting the film Chevalier in Prague. Over

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<v Speaker 1>the course of promoting a film, you get to spend

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<v Speaker 1>time with the people in it, and Lucy is just

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<v Speaker 1>one of the most interesting and thoughtful.

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<v Speaker 3>Women I've met in a long time.

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<v Speaker 1>She considers things. I'm really inspired by how she doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>just quickly answer a question when it's posed to fill

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<v Speaker 1>the space to hold the floor, but rather takes her

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<v Speaker 1>time responding and then revels in the answer. She attributes

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<v Speaker 1>this to having grown up in a household of journalists

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<v Speaker 1>where the question was the thing. Actors are funny people,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean funny peculiar by that we appear extrovert, when

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<v Speaker 1>there is actually a whole other, inward facing person interrogating

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<v Speaker 1>things and wondering if any of it is fit for

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<v Speaker 1>public consumption. Lucy gracefully inhabits both these aspects, and I

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<v Speaker 1>always look forward to seeing her and to watching what

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<v Speaker 1>films she chooses to make. I'm particularly looking forward to

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<v Speaker 1>seeing The Greatest Hits, her newest movie out now on Hulu.

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<v Speaker 1>Where and when were you happiest?

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<v Speaker 2>I found it so hard to answer, because I think

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<v Speaker 2>my answer to that would change so much all the

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<v Speaker 2>time based on what I currently want and like what

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<v Speaker 2>I'm currently seeking. But I think the one that really

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<v Speaker 2>springs to mind is I had a five day period

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty one where I had just finished filming

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<v Speaker 2>The Hipgris File and I was about to go onto

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<v Speaker 2>this mini series when I had five days of quarantine

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<v Speaker 2>way back when we had to do that, and I

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<v Speaker 2>was so content. I just finished a job that was

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<v Speaker 2>one of the best times of my life personal experience

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<v Speaker 2>wise and work wise. I was about to go onto

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<v Speaker 2>something I loved so much, and that in terms of

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<v Speaker 2>work that's been kind of the dream forever, feeling safe

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<v Speaker 2>in it and feeling inspired by it. And energized by it,

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<v Speaker 2>and it had just been so rewarding working with such

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<v Speaker 2>brilliant people as well that I'm still so close with,

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<v Speaker 2>So it was really personally impactful as well. It was

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<v Speaker 2>a period of time where I just felt contentment.

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<v Speaker 1>I heard Julia Roberts interviewed once and she said, for her,

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<v Speaker 1>the best time was the time between when one job

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<v Speaker 1>ended but you knew another one was beginning. And I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's so many actors have this feeling of we

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<v Speaker 1>never know where the next job is coming from. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>if you're one of most actors, so that feeling of

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<v Speaker 1>safety bookended by work. Do you think that safety for

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<v Speaker 1>you is part of contentment, that the incredible instability of

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<v Speaker 1>being an actor and not knowing, well, perhaps I will

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<v Speaker 1>be able to pay my mortgage or can I look

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<v Speaker 1>a year down the line, and is it okay if

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<v Speaker 1>I go on holiday? Is it okay if I make

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<v Speaker 1>plans for my future financially because I have no idea

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<v Speaker 1>if I'm going to be able to underwrite that with work? Exactly,

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<v Speaker 1>the safety factor into happiness for.

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<v Speaker 2>You totally, because it also gives you a momentary sense

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<v Speaker 2>of structure of your life, kind of like what you're saying,

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<v Speaker 2>but it allows me to understand where I'll be and when,

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<v Speaker 2>so then I can start to shape my life. So

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<v Speaker 2>in that pocket of time, I felt that satisfied feeling

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<v Speaker 2>of being exhausted by something that you loved, something is

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<v Speaker 2>on the horizon. But now I'm dipping back into my

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<v Speaker 2>life life and I'm present with my friends and family again,

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<v Speaker 2>and I know where I'll be for the next chunk

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<v Speaker 2>of time, so I can also start to shape my

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<v Speaker 2>personal life in a way that when you don't know

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<v Speaker 2>when you're working next, you can't.

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<v Speaker 1>Except So what do you think the attraction of this itinerancy?

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<v Speaker 1>Because it is in this life that we live, because

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<v Speaker 1>it's certainly nothing that anyone It's so funny. Everyone always

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<v Speaker 1>talked about the unemployment as an actor, but no one

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<v Speaker 1>ever went you better get ready to live out of

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<v Speaker 1>a suitcase for the rest of your life and miss weddings,

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<v Speaker 1>miss funerals, miss christenings, miss birthdays, miss big family events.

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<v Speaker 1>Why is it so compelling?

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<v Speaker 2>I think there is just something appealing about I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know where I'll be this time, next month, or next year,

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<v Speaker 2>and I feed off of that, and I think there's

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<v Speaker 2>a certain element whether it's kind of partially self destructive

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<v Speaker 2>or just the thrill of the unknown that your life

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<v Speaker 2>hasn't fallen into a pattern, and because I personally wouldn't

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<v Speaker 2>be able to enjoy that thing is. I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>how people do it with families. I don't know how

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<v Speaker 2>you manage it once you have kids, because you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I've done this since I was twelve, and I've always

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<v Speaker 2>been really free, like I can drop everything and go

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<v Speaker 2>somewhere next week and just hop on a plane wherever

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<v Speaker 2>I need to be. I can be. That has increasingly,

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<v Speaker 2>like as I get older, I find it harder to

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<v Speaker 2>realize how sometimes I can be the friend who can't

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<v Speaker 2>really depend on. You know, I'm less dependable in my

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<v Speaker 2>personal life because of all of this, and I'm struggling

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<v Speaker 2>with that more and more as I get older.

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<v Speaker 1>It's such a good point that I have felt like

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<v Speaker 1>such a bad friend, even though I know my love

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<v Speaker 1>remains constant always for my friends totally.

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<v Speaker 2>But you kind of let yourself off the hook a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit because it's always been this way, because it's

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<v Speaker 2>always been this kind of you know, out of the blue,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll be the other side of the world, and I

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<v Speaker 2>forgot to mention that.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a weird life. I don't have an enormous amount

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<v Speaker 1>of friends, I think as a result of it. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I have very few, but very very good friends, because

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<v Speaker 1>you say exactly, you don't have the time to maintain

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<v Speaker 1>the peripheral nice friendships that are lovely people to have

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<v Speaker 1>over for dinner once every few months. But I don't

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<v Speaker 1>have anyone like that because if I'm home, there are

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<v Speaker 1>like four people that I've got to say, because I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know when I'm going to be gone. Okay, so

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<v Speaker 1>what question would you most like answered?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I've been racking my reins about this

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<v Speaker 2>and I have no answer.

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<v Speaker 1>I reject your question past.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm someone who feels quite content with the unknown. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't want to know about ma afterlife. I don't want

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<v Speaker 2>to know.

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<v Speaker 1>That's good though, that's very No one has ever said

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<v Speaker 1>that I am extremely content with the unknown that's really present.

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<v Speaker 2>It excites me more because it means that there's no

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<v Speaker 2>definitive answer. It means it's just so much more space

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<v Speaker 2>for your own interpretation or to just sit in it

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<v Speaker 2>as is and makes you much more present. And I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know, Yeah, not trying to control things with answers.

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<v Speaker 1>So hold on. So you come from a family who,

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<v Speaker 1>quite literally because they're journalists, are expected to have answers

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<v Speaker 1>in a way about cultural relevance, about politics, the facts

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<v Speaker 1>of science. So it feels like it was quite an

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<v Speaker 1>answer based sort of environment. So how do you fit

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<v Speaker 1>into that?

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's the inverse, it's question based environment. So

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<v Speaker 2>they source the answers from the experts, from the people

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<v Speaker 2>who do know, and their job is to facilitate and

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<v Speaker 2>ask the right questions to invite that conversation. And so

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<v Speaker 2>maybe that's why then, because yeah, sitting around that table,

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<v Speaker 2>it's always been the most intellectually simulating debates, but without

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<v Speaker 2>any kind of definitive answer. It's always an awareness of

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<v Speaker 2>unless you're stating statistics, your stating interpretation.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's interesting because this all dovetails into the comfort

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<v Speaker 1>level with untelledness. And I don't mean that in a

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<v Speaker 1>way that it is applied to women and mental health.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean in terms of of again the itinerancy of

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<v Speaker 1>being an actor, the idea of being so present, or

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<v Speaker 1>being more interested in the present than in the unknown,

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<v Speaker 1>or sitting worrying about gosh, I wonder what the answer

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<v Speaker 1>that is, rather than what is it relkas Head, keep

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<v Speaker 1>asking the questions until you live the answers, so you

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<v Speaker 1>live the answer in a present moment rather than sort

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<v Speaker 1>of seeking it as this thing that's always just up ahead.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I think that keeps you open to the

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<v Speaker 2>idea that there's no definitive answer, that it's just like

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<v Speaker 2>a collection of information, and you kind of quilt that

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<v Speaker 2>together and you're okay with that fas to form. Yeah, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>because it frees me. I think I'm not trying to

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<v Speaker 2>get to an end result. I think I would just

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<v Speaker 2>kind of reject that.

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<v Speaker 1>I say that to myself. I wrote a book with

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<v Speaker 1>that as the central thesis, clearly because it is something

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<v Speaker 1>I long to be able to really fundamentally. No, there

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<v Speaker 1>is no there there. It is here and only here,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's completely fine. That's brilliant.

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<v Speaker 2>I think, isn't that the most freeing thing there? Because

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<v Speaker 2>it's like this idea that I don't know, when you

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<v Speaker 2>just sit in the idea that everything is made up

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<v Speaker 2>and it's all just happening now and.

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<v Speaker 1>It is all fiction. I agree, it is all and

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<v Speaker 1>it's a fiction that.

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<v Speaker 2>Is like, yeah, giant playground, and so it just immediately

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<v Speaker 2>becomes I mean fascical.

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<v Speaker 1>Look, I think you've got a right like you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the Dow of Boynton Babes.

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<v Speaker 2>The World by Lucy Winton.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, what relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love?

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<v Speaker 1>For you?

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<v Speaker 2>All my female friendships and predominantly only when I was

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<v Speaker 2>thinking about this question that I actually take time to

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<v Speaker 2>really like analyze the relationships in my life. And I

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<v Speaker 2>think we talk about romantic relationships so much more and

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<v Speaker 2>romanticize them, whereas like female friendships and best friendships, we

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<v Speaker 2>just don't. And my friend Ellen and I we're best

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<v Speaker 2>friend since we were eleven. It's been so unconditional, it's

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<v Speaker 2>been so dependable, and we've just given each other so

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<v Speaker 2>much grace to really grow and change as people, and

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<v Speaker 2>in so many ways we're really different, and yet relentlessly

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<v Speaker 2>we're still there for each other. And it's just it's

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<v Speaker 2>kind of remarkable.

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<v Speaker 1>What you just described is probably the ideal of what

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<v Speaker 1>a relationship would be with a romantic partner, maybe just

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<v Speaker 1>as women. That's how the trajectory has always been. That's

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<v Speaker 1>what you're aiming for. I love that your definition of

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<v Speaker 1>is the female friendship. You have the blueprint for that

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<v Speaker 1>in your life and that one doesn't really need much

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<v Speaker 1>outside of that. I don't think I'm very interested in

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<v Speaker 1>why we're pushed on romantic relationships so much more than

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<v Speaker 1>we are on the fundament of friendship with whomever. That is,

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<v Speaker 1>whoever our best friends are, our best relationships are.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like that's all just so like entrenched in

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<v Speaker 2>traditional and misogyny and women having to marry men in

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<v Speaker 2>order to have a bank account, yeah, and be able

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<v Speaker 2>to do anything exact. Now that that landscape is changing

0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:27.080
<v Speaker 2>so much, I think the rhetoric is changing, and I

0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:30.280
<v Speaker 2>think you're seeing it in a wave of women having

0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:33.240
<v Speaker 2>much higher standards and saying kind of I'm actually not

0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:35.960
<v Speaker 2>going to settle for this what previously you kind of

0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:38.120
<v Speaker 2>had to. And I think part of that is like

0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:42.080
<v Speaker 2>more fulfillment in your life in general, but also realizing, yeah,

0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:44.079
<v Speaker 2>and these friendships you get.

0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:46.000
<v Speaker 1>All of that, I mean, one hundred percent, and if you.

0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:49.160
<v Speaker 2>Nurture that, it is such a strong foundation for your life.

0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:52.000
<v Speaker 1>So interesting, You're right, like, I don't even think about

0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:56.280
<v Speaker 1>the systemic programming that I have, what I realize, even

0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:59.800
<v Speaker 1>though I have always longed just to do what I

0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:05.080
<v Speaker 1>do for a living and acting has been this great passion, always, always,

0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:08.520
<v Speaker 1>always this idea that I had to find that person

0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:11.720
<v Speaker 1>to love and to love me, and that superseded everything,

0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:14.080
<v Speaker 1>and that was always the quest, and that not happening

0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:17.800
<v Speaker 1>until my late forties. I've realized I thought of that

0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:21.520
<v Speaker 1>as a failure and it's such utter bollocks.

0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.080
<v Speaker 2>Because it's this constant message that you're not enough on

0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:26.720
<v Speaker 2>your own, and that women aren't enough on their own,

0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:30.320
<v Speaker 2>certainty validated by the presence of a male partner. Yeah,

0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.599
<v Speaker 2>and then you're successful, Yeah, even if you've had the

0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:38.600
<v Speaker 2>job all along. Then you're stamped with okay, decent person exactly.

0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.079
<v Speaker 1>And the idea of belonging, like my boyfriend doesn't want

0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:43.760
<v Speaker 1>to get married, my parents weren't married. Now I'm like,

0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:44.800
<v Speaker 1>where does this come from?

0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:44.920
<v Speaker 2>This?

0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:47.680
<v Speaker 1>And it's an idea about belonging, of someone choosing me,

0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.839
<v Speaker 1>because I think I was programmed to believe someone has

0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:52.880
<v Speaker 1>to choose me, and when you look at what we

0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:55.560
<v Speaker 1>do for a living, fundamentally that's also what it is.

0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:58.160
<v Speaker 1>You have to get chosen over all the other people.

0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:01.480
<v Speaker 1>But it really just comes back to lack of self worth.

0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:02.040
<v Speaker 1>For me.

0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:05.120
<v Speaker 2>I've done so much analysis of like why do women

0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:07.520
<v Speaker 2>feel this way about it because of who my sister is.

0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:11.280
<v Speaker 2>When I was sixteen, she handed me the book Kunt

0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:14.760
<v Speaker 2>and told me that the patriarchy is taking advantage of me,

0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:17.400
<v Speaker 2>and the tampon industry are taking advantage of me. Read up.

0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:19.320
<v Speaker 1>Your sister should be talking in schools.

0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:22.560
<v Speaker 2>She should be. She runs a monthly event, Sex Talks,

0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:25.800
<v Speaker 2>and it's everyone leaving feeling empowered.

0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:27.920
<v Speaker 1>And sounds like she was ahead of the curve because

0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:32.960
<v Speaker 1>that word like empowerment, which is what women, particularly young women,

0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.880
<v Speaker 1>I think, are getting to feel now for the first time,

0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:42.480
<v Speaker 1>and it be acknowledged by outside forces. I'm much older

0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:44.200
<v Speaker 1>than you, but I remember when my aunt and my

0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:48.120
<v Speaker 1>mother were protesting at Greenham Common about the nuclear bombs

0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:50.920
<v Speaker 1>that we were going to be housing, and I remember

0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:54.280
<v Speaker 1>how they were just presented on the news as these

0:14:55.000 --> 0:15:00.240
<v Speaker 1>dirty hippie women who were not tethered to families or people.

0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:04.040
<v Speaker 1>They were so othered because they stepped out of exactly

0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:06.920
<v Speaker 1>what you said, this heteronormative idea of what a woman

0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:09.440
<v Speaker 1>is supposed to be, and all that stuff goes in

0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.480
<v Speaker 1>and we are now I'm picking that. I watched my

0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:16.000
<v Speaker 1>nieces and my friend's children and like you know, speaking

0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.280
<v Speaker 1>to young women like you, it's so great to know

0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:23.200
<v Speaker 1>that it's just not acceptable anymore, that you don't accept it.

0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:25.640
<v Speaker 2>Still, it is happening so slowly, and you're grateful that

0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:29.000
<v Speaker 2>it's happening across the board, but you realize how much

0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:32.080
<v Speaker 2>of everything is entrenched in that. And still the media

0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:34.560
<v Speaker 2>I think plays such a huge role in keeping us

0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:37.600
<v Speaker 2>static in that in the differences of the way men

0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:39.280
<v Speaker 2>and women are portrayed.

0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:41.160
<v Speaker 1>What do you think do you think that we should

0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:43.520
<v Speaker 1>be going on marches against the patriot I'm trying to

0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:44.080
<v Speaker 1>think of, like.

0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:48.360
<v Speaker 2>What, I don't know, because it's so entrenched in our fabric.

0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:52.200
<v Speaker 2>It's built by them for them. Supposedly, the answer is

0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:55.160
<v Speaker 2>to pick a lane, so you can't disassemble the thing

0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:58.480
<v Speaker 2>in its entirety all at once. So choose something that

0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:02.240
<v Speaker 2>you're very passionate about changing and then start shipping away

0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:05.120
<v Speaker 2>at it from there, so then everyone does that. I

0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:08.200
<v Speaker 2>think that's a brilliant whole thing starts to crumble, and

0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:11.280
<v Speaker 2>I do think that is the dissemination of information. That

0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:14.560
<v Speaker 2>is about speaking with each other and going, oh my goodness,

0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:17.360
<v Speaker 2>this is you feel this too, and this has been

0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:18.360
<v Speaker 2>your experience too.

0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:21.120
<v Speaker 1>So someone like looking at you and they would see

0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.760
<v Speaker 1>a picture of you looking beautiful in a magazine and

0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:26.680
<v Speaker 1>then there would maybe have the opportunity to listen to you,

0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:32.640
<v Speaker 1>for example here or somewhere else and correlate. Ah, a beautiful,

0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:36.920
<v Speaker 1>successful woman can also be interrogating ideas that need to

0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:40.400
<v Speaker 1>disassemble shit that we've all just been accepting. And perhaps

0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:43.880
<v Speaker 1>it's a very big ship and it is taking a

0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:46.920
<v Speaker 1>really long fucking time to turn it around. I do

0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:49.160
<v Speaker 1>think it's happening, but I agree with you the slowness

0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:54.560
<v Speaker 1>of it is glacial and it's fucking annoying. I really

0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:56.680
<v Speaker 1>like that. I like that about picking a lane, shipping

0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:58.240
<v Speaker 1>away in that way.

0:16:58.400 --> 0:16:59.920
<v Speaker 2>And I do think we're lucky because we do have

0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:03.320
<v Speaker 2>the opportunity in this job to you know, even like

0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.119
<v Speaker 2>with Chevalier this film, where you get to hold a

0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:10.320
<v Speaker 2>mirror up to people that is kind of trojan horsing

0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:15.639
<v Speaker 2>your message. You're getting to offer really tangible experience of

0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:20.600
<v Speaker 2>empathy that is otherwise a more analytical process of someone

0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:23.359
<v Speaker 2>having to read about a thing and then imagine, whereas

0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:25.439
<v Speaker 2>with film and the entertainment industry, I think you are

0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:28.560
<v Speaker 2>just offered it. There's very much more kind of visceral

0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:29.840
<v Speaker 2>experience of that, and.

0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:33.160
<v Speaker 1>It's immersive too. It's a very elegant way of giving

0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:36.720
<v Speaker 1>meaning to what we do beyond the sort of raw

0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:40.399
<v Speaker 1>going to the movies. Having an experience, particularly with stories

0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:44.080
<v Speaker 1>like Chevalier, you can introduce an essentially a raised story

0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.680
<v Speaker 1>and it be beautiful and entertaining and devastating and raw.

0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:56.359
<v Speaker 1>So that's very interesting. You see what person, place, or

0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:59.639
<v Speaker 1>experience most altered your life.

0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:02.560
<v Speaker 2>This is going to be such an obvious answer, but

0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:05.359
<v Speaker 2>it's starting this job when I was twelve. Well, my

0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.560
<v Speaker 2>first job was playing the young bittrick s Potter and

0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:13.480
<v Speaker 2>Miss Potter so cute, and I think I didn't realize

0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:19.600
<v Speaker 2>how much this job has impacted my formation of self

0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:23.320
<v Speaker 2>until I started doing therapy and in our first session,

0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:26.040
<v Speaker 2>I was going through the trajectory of my life so

0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:29.680
<v Speaker 2>that she kind of understand who I was, and then

0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:31.040
<v Speaker 2>part of it was you know, and then I started

0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:33.320
<v Speaker 2>acting at like eleven twelve, and she's like, oh, okay,

0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:35.320
<v Speaker 2>that's going to be a big one. I was like, no, no, no, Honestly,

0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:37.919
<v Speaker 2>I have such a healthy relationship with it, like you know,

0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:41.199
<v Speaker 2>another actors present in the families you know, expectations, not

0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:46.320
<v Speaker 2>controlling parents by any means really supportive, solid foundation or

0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:49.280
<v Speaker 2>good or good. And then we started to unpick it,

0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:51.720
<v Speaker 2>and it's like, oh no, this is the source of

0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:54.800
<v Speaker 2>so much shit to be untangled.

0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:58.359
<v Speaker 1>So what pit one thing just because I'm fascinated because

0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:02.800
<v Speaker 1>you're so little and such a formative moment, Yeah, what

0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:05.040
<v Speaker 1>is one pathway that that led you down that you've

0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:05.920
<v Speaker 1>had to unpick?

0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:11.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean the main two is obedience and then trusting

0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:14.080
<v Speaker 2>my own feelings. So I find that my relationship with

0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.400
<v Speaker 2>obedience was the main thing that came out of these

0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:20.399
<v Speaker 2>therapy sessions that I was really stunned by and disappointed with,

0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:25.879
<v Speaker 2>because I think in most workforces in industries, obedience is rewarded,

0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:30.160
<v Speaker 2>and especially obedience without question is rewarded. But in our industry,

0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:33.040
<v Speaker 2>I think there are really tangible ways that's rewarded. And

0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:35.840
<v Speaker 2>from the bare minimum, the way that you're hitting your mark,

0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:37.720
<v Speaker 2>you turn up with all your lines.

0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:40.680
<v Speaker 1>Learned, someone else always has the last word, yeah.

0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:44.080
<v Speaker 2>And obedience becomes really tangible and constantly reinforcement, especially as

0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:46.080
<v Speaker 2>a child, and I think as a young girl to

0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:50.600
<v Speaker 2>have obedience as a kind of a goal every day

0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:52.840
<v Speaker 2>in a very tangible way, and your work environment is

0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:53.679
<v Speaker 2>really odd.

0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:54.280
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:58.879
<v Speaker 2>And my sister has always challenged every source of authority

0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:02.240
<v Speaker 2>around her. She just kind of arrived that way, and

0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:05.280
<v Speaker 2>I became the antithesis of that, and I hate it.

0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:08.400
<v Speaker 2>I don't challenge authority enough and have to make such

0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:10.359
<v Speaker 2>a concerted effort to do that as I get older.

0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:14.440
<v Speaker 2>And it's not even like seeking validation or praise. It's

0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:19.960
<v Speaker 2>just seeking confirmation that you've done the thing or exceeded it.

0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:22.240
<v Speaker 2>And that's it. It's not that I need the praise,

0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:24.719
<v Speaker 2>it's that the box has been checked. And I've always

0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:29.439
<v Speaker 2>looked outside of myself for that confirmation rather than do

0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:32.040
<v Speaker 2>I feel like I've done it? Or am I aware

0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:32.800
<v Speaker 2>that I've done enough?

0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:35.200
<v Speaker 1>God, that's so interesting, Lucie.

0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:38.760
<v Speaker 2>So that was the one thing and then the other. Yeah,

0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:42.399
<v Speaker 2>I was trusting my own feelings because this job is

0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:45.399
<v Speaker 2>really odd, and that as much as your brain knows

0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:48.119
<v Speaker 2>or you can analytically know that this is a separate

0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:51.320
<v Speaker 2>person to yourself, a separate experience to yourself, your body

0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:54.560
<v Speaker 2>still experiences the chemical reactions to whatever you're telling it

0:20:54.560 --> 0:21:00.520
<v Speaker 2>you're going through. So from that age, I haven't solely

0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:04.200
<v Speaker 2>been me, and so I find it hard to tap

0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:09.400
<v Speaker 2>into my gut instinct and to know my own feelings

0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:12.080
<v Speaker 2>and thoughts through and through I really challenged them. I

0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:16.840
<v Speaker 2>don't completely trust them because I'm constantly changing them. I'm

0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:19.640
<v Speaker 2>constantly leaning into someone very different from myself.

0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:23.080
<v Speaker 1>Do you find that, because in a way, the more

0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:26.560
<v Speaker 1>one is not oneself, it actually throws into relief who

0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:30.240
<v Speaker 1>you are. The more you feel not yourself, you get

0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:33.159
<v Speaker 1>to actually then connect with Oh goodness, that is actually

0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:35.800
<v Speaker 1>very other than who I am.

0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:39.680
<v Speaker 2>Yes and no, Yes, when I'm playing someone really far

0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:42.879
<v Speaker 2>from myself. But in recent years, I've played more characters

0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:46.600
<v Speaker 2>who were more similar to parts of me, or parts

0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:50.840
<v Speaker 2>of me that I wanted to exercise more and lean into.

0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:55.120
<v Speaker 2>And so then when they start to bleed into one another, yeah,

0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:57.760
<v Speaker 2>I do find it hard to find myself and I

0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:00.679
<v Speaker 2>do feel like I have I'm not kind of floating

0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:03.840
<v Speaker 2>between personalities. I do have a strong sense of self.

0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:06.440
<v Speaker 2>I just find that hard to trust sometimes.

0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:09.280
<v Speaker 1>And it's so interesting, And when you're talking about obedience,

0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:11.600
<v Speaker 1>it's so funny how it's like there's a whole universe

0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:17.040
<v Speaker 1>of expansion going on behind the incredibly structured notion of

0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:21.199
<v Speaker 1>like obedience and ticking the boxes and playing by the

0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:24.679
<v Speaker 1>rules so that you have an exterior that is cool.

0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:29.119
<v Speaker 1>And then I love I love talking to you because

0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:33.120
<v Speaker 1>it is like there's this whole universe of freedom going

0:22:33.160 --> 0:22:36.359
<v Speaker 1>on behind it, which is fantastic, because I got to

0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:39.199
<v Speaker 1>tell you, without one you sound patronizing. As you get older,

0:22:40.040 --> 0:22:43.439
<v Speaker 1>that universe of expansion just becomes more and more and

0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:45.560
<v Speaker 1>more who you are and what you live.

0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:49.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm already feeling that more since the age of

0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:52.840
<v Speaker 2>twenty seven onwards. I've felt that more than ever, that

0:22:52.960 --> 0:22:55.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm turning away from things that don't feed me anymore

0:22:55.680 --> 0:22:59.440
<v Speaker 2>and that I was locked into focusing on even though

0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:02.119
<v Speaker 2>it didn't help help me. And also just yeah, that

0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:04.240
<v Speaker 2>freedom of just like everything is made up, and so

0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:06.760
<v Speaker 2>I think part of that because you can slot into

0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:09.800
<v Speaker 2>so many different identities with this work, the idea of

0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:13.000
<v Speaker 2>the ultimate self isn't so precious. I'm not as protective

0:23:13.040 --> 0:23:16.840
<v Speaker 2>of it. It's much more of a fluid thing. So

0:23:16.920 --> 0:23:19.640
<v Speaker 2>that's a good thing and then also a harder thing

0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:23.000
<v Speaker 2>because you can tap into any feeling, any point of

0:23:23.080 --> 0:23:23.840
<v Speaker 2>view and all of that.

0:23:24.200 --> 0:23:27.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, No, it really does. I think what's really great

0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:31.080
<v Speaker 1>is that it doesn't sound like you punish yourself for

0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:35.040
<v Speaker 1>the person that you were, but rather they're sort of

0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:38.440
<v Speaker 1>continuing to fold into the person that you're becoming, which

0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:40.720
<v Speaker 1>maybe is a really healthy way. You know, we take

0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:43.680
<v Speaker 1>all of our imperfection with us in our little backpack

0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:47.600
<v Speaker 1>as we move along without being angry about it, which

0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:49.560
<v Speaker 1>I think is what keeps us stuck as people.

0:23:49.880 --> 0:23:51.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I think I used to do that a

0:23:51.320 --> 0:23:54.240
<v Speaker 2>lot when I was younger, like stepping out of the

0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:58.200
<v Speaker 2>way that I wanted to be was unacceptable and kind

0:23:58.200 --> 0:24:01.440
<v Speaker 2>of punishable, whereas now it's just kind of like everyone's

0:24:01.480 --> 0:24:02.000
<v Speaker 2>winging it.

0:24:02.080 --> 0:24:04.720
<v Speaker 1>And do you think that you more trust your own

0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:07.480
<v Speaker 1>feelings or is that something that you continue to kind

0:24:07.480 --> 0:24:09.240
<v Speaker 1>of have to work on, or do you feel that

0:24:09.280 --> 0:24:10.600
<v Speaker 1>you do it more naturally now?

0:24:10.960 --> 0:24:13.719
<v Speaker 2>I think I'm less analytical of it of just like

0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:16.439
<v Speaker 2>observe the feelings and let it pass, and then what

0:24:16.600 --> 0:24:20.720
<v Speaker 2>resonates and what is true will keep coming back and

0:24:20.760 --> 0:24:23.920
<v Speaker 2>you'll circle round to it again. And also just yeah,

0:24:23.960 --> 0:24:26.479
<v Speaker 2>there's a kind of detachment from permanence. So it's like

0:24:26.560 --> 0:24:28.040
<v Speaker 2>my mum has always said it to us, and I

0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:29.800
<v Speaker 2>always repeat it to my sister and my friends. Of

0:24:29.880 --> 0:24:33.359
<v Speaker 2>like all of your feelings are valid. Just listen to that,

0:24:33.560 --> 0:24:35.399
<v Speaker 2>and it doesn't mean that it has to stick, but

0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:38.080
<v Speaker 2>just like observe it and then let it pass. So

0:24:38.119 --> 0:24:43.440
<v Speaker 2>I think I'm learning to like justify myself less by

0:24:43.680 --> 0:24:45.959
<v Speaker 2>kind of clinging to those feelings and just living it

0:24:45.960 --> 0:24:50.080
<v Speaker 2>all flow. There's this book The Island by Aldus Huxley,

0:24:50.160 --> 0:24:53.400
<v Speaker 2>and in it there's this paragraphs that just says, go lightly,

0:24:53.480 --> 0:24:55.800
<v Speaker 2>and it just talks about like it's dark because you're

0:24:55.840 --> 0:24:58.760
<v Speaker 2>trying too hard. Go lightly lightly, And it's just the

0:24:58.800 --> 0:25:02.639
<v Speaker 2>most beautiful of just like we're so trying to clutch

0:25:02.640 --> 0:25:04.640
<v Speaker 2>to these things that we think are true and real

0:25:04.680 --> 0:25:06.800
<v Speaker 2>in us, and actually there's so much that we said

0:25:06.800 --> 0:25:09.480
<v Speaker 2>for just letting it go and just being and observing

0:25:09.520 --> 0:25:10.560
<v Speaker 2>and then letting it pass.

0:25:11.560 --> 0:25:14.600
<v Speaker 1>I love that, Gosh, particularly with the more challenging things

0:25:14.600 --> 0:25:17.680
<v Speaker 1>in life, to go lightly when you feel like you're

0:25:17.720 --> 0:25:21.639
<v Speaker 1>being pulled into the abyss of whether it's grief or

0:25:21.680 --> 0:25:24.200
<v Speaker 1>sadness or depression or whatever. To be able to remember

0:25:24.240 --> 0:25:28.959
<v Speaker 1>that in those moments is so wonderful because it's simple

0:25:29.000 --> 0:25:33.080
<v Speaker 1>and it's direct, and it's actually prescriptive, which is great.

0:25:33.359 --> 0:25:36.200
<v Speaker 2>I know, it's kind of cliche, but it is, it

0:25:36.359 --> 0:25:40.400
<v Speaker 2>is how it shall be exactly. I've got the full thing.

0:25:41.280 --> 0:25:43.200
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, it'd be so lovely. Read it.

0:25:43.800 --> 0:25:49.040
<v Speaker 2>Yes, lightly, child, lightly, learn to do everything lightly. Yes,

0:25:49.160 --> 0:25:52.960
<v Speaker 2>feel lightly, even though you're feeling deeply, Just lightly let

0:25:52.960 --> 0:25:56.119
<v Speaker 2>things happen and lightly cope with them. I was so

0:25:56.200 --> 0:25:59.720
<v Speaker 2>preposterously serious in those days. Such a humorous, little prig.

0:26:00.400 --> 0:26:04.520
<v Speaker 2>Lightly lightly is the best advice ever given me when

0:26:04.520 --> 0:26:08.840
<v Speaker 2>it comes to dying. Even nothing ponderous or potentious or emphatic,

0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:12.960
<v Speaker 2>no rhetoric or tremulose, no self conscious persona putting on

0:26:13.000 --> 0:26:16.520
<v Speaker 2>its celebrated imitation of Christ or little Nell, and of course,

0:26:16.600 --> 0:26:20.919
<v Speaker 2>no theology, no metaphysics, just the fact of dying and

0:26:20.960 --> 0:26:23.800
<v Speaker 2>the fact of the clear light. So throw away your

0:26:23.840 --> 0:26:26.920
<v Speaker 2>baggage and go forward. Here A quick sounds all about you,

0:26:27.000 --> 0:26:29.160
<v Speaker 2>sucking at your feet, trying to suck you down into

0:26:29.200 --> 0:26:32.600
<v Speaker 2>fear and self pity and despair. That's why you must

0:26:32.600 --> 0:26:36.960
<v Speaker 2>walk so lightly, lightly, my darling, on tiptoes, and no luggage,

0:26:37.160 --> 0:26:40.400
<v Speaker 2>not even a spongebag, completely unencumbered.

0:26:41.880 --> 0:26:44.120
<v Speaker 1>Oh lows, No, I'm crying.

0:26:45.240 --> 0:26:46.160
<v Speaker 2>Isn't it beautiful?

0:26:46.920 --> 0:26:48.440
<v Speaker 1>The fact of the clear light?

0:26:49.400 --> 0:26:53.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that book is full of that kind of sentiment

0:26:53.720 --> 0:26:57.280
<v Speaker 2>of it's definitely a little dated in areas, but it's

0:26:57.320 --> 0:27:02.520
<v Speaker 2>full of understanding small self in the big, big landscape.

0:27:02.560 --> 0:27:05.800
<v Speaker 1>Exactly. Gosh, I don't have anything to add to that

0:27:05.920 --> 0:27:23.320
<v Speaker 1>is so beautifully said and so beautifully put in your life.

0:27:23.359 --> 0:27:25.800
<v Speaker 1>Can you tell me something that has grown out of

0:27:25.840 --> 0:27:26.880
<v Speaker 1>a personal disaster?

0:27:28.119 --> 0:27:33.639
<v Speaker 2>The ability to self soothe and the understanding that the

0:27:33.680 --> 0:27:39.960
<v Speaker 2>most impactful strength is self sourced. So when I've been

0:27:40.000 --> 0:27:44.679
<v Speaker 2>going through a really difficult time and I'm still in

0:27:44.760 --> 0:27:49.440
<v Speaker 2>the thick of it and still drowning in the feelings

0:27:49.480 --> 0:27:55.040
<v Speaker 2>and going through it and realizing that I'm coping and

0:27:55.080 --> 0:27:58.679
<v Speaker 2>that I'm getting through something that I didn't think I

0:27:58.760 --> 0:28:03.800
<v Speaker 2>had the kind of ability to the equipment too that

0:28:03.880 --> 0:28:06.760
<v Speaker 2>I thought would be that would wash me away and hasn't.

0:28:06.840 --> 0:28:08.479
<v Speaker 2>I'm still here and I'm just coping.

0:28:08.720 --> 0:28:10.600
<v Speaker 1>So would you say that's like there are moments where

0:28:10.640 --> 0:28:15.280
<v Speaker 1>you get to be the observer around turmoil and can

0:28:15.320 --> 0:28:18.320
<v Speaker 1>see that you're sitting there shuddering and sad or whatever

0:28:18.359 --> 0:28:20.840
<v Speaker 1>the moment is, but you can see I am actually

0:28:20.840 --> 0:28:23.240
<v Speaker 1>still here and I am coping with it, and that's

0:28:23.280 --> 0:28:25.359
<v Speaker 1>the thing that will carry you on.

0:28:26.000 --> 0:28:29.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And that I'm stronger than I thought I was. Yeah,

0:28:29.119 --> 0:28:31.800
<v Speaker 2>that you're more unshakable than you think you are and

0:28:31.840 --> 0:28:34.480
<v Speaker 2>not that and that doesn't mean any lack of a

0:28:34.600 --> 0:28:37.320
<v Speaker 2>kind of emotional response or impact. It hasn't you, but

0:28:37.359 --> 0:28:39.160
<v Speaker 2>it just means you'll go out the other side. There's

0:28:39.200 --> 0:28:42.040
<v Speaker 2>this Emmy lou Harris song Boulded of Birmingham that she

0:28:42.080 --> 0:28:45.800
<v Speaker 2>wrote when Grandpasons died, and in it one of the

0:28:45.840 --> 0:28:48.719
<v Speaker 2>most devastating lyrics is well you really got me this

0:28:48.840 --> 0:28:52.160
<v Speaker 2>time And the hardest part is knowing I'll survive, And

0:28:52.240 --> 0:28:55.520
<v Speaker 2>that I think resonates so much of just like regardless

0:28:55.560 --> 0:29:00.320
<v Speaker 2>of the intensity or severity the loss, the grief, you

0:29:00.360 --> 0:29:02.000
<v Speaker 2>come out the other side and you look back. And

0:29:02.000 --> 0:29:04.080
<v Speaker 2>I think that's why it's also important to always keep

0:29:04.080 --> 0:29:05.840
<v Speaker 2>a diary, because then I look back on these moments

0:29:05.880 --> 0:29:08.600
<v Speaker 2>where I was just like drowning in it, and here

0:29:08.640 --> 0:29:11.680
<v Speaker 2>I am a year later or whatever or however long after,

0:29:11.920 --> 0:29:13.280
<v Speaker 2>and having grown from it.

0:29:13.480 --> 0:29:15.640
<v Speaker 1>Would that be your how too? In terms of a

0:29:15.720 --> 0:29:19.640
<v Speaker 1>practical application, that keeping a diary, that journaling, that being

0:29:19.680 --> 0:29:24.320
<v Speaker 1>able to physicalize the emotions that you're going through and

0:29:24.360 --> 0:29:26.719
<v Speaker 1>then being able to revisit it and see that you've

0:29:27.040 --> 0:29:30.040
<v Speaker 1>evolved or that you moved on from it. Is that

0:29:30.120 --> 0:29:31.720
<v Speaker 1>a practical application, do you think?

0:29:32.400 --> 0:29:35.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? And I think just in terms of also having

0:29:35.040 --> 0:29:38.760
<v Speaker 2>to verbalize, having to articulate exactly how you feel. And

0:29:38.800 --> 0:29:40.440
<v Speaker 2>there are times when I'm writing and it's like I'm

0:29:40.440 --> 0:29:42.720
<v Speaker 2>just not getting it, I'm not conveying it. So I

0:29:42.840 --> 0:29:47.040
<v Speaker 2>keep writing and it's such a cathartic purging of your feelings,

0:29:47.400 --> 0:29:49.880
<v Speaker 2>so that then I'm aware don't take as much of

0:29:49.920 --> 0:29:53.560
<v Speaker 2>it to someone else, and it stays kind of ugly

0:29:53.640 --> 0:29:56.800
<v Speaker 2>in its honesty, and so it can be much more cleansing.

0:29:56.960 --> 0:29:58.960
<v Speaker 2>And then you look back on it and it's just

0:29:59.200 --> 0:30:03.280
<v Speaker 2>this constant reminder of everything returns to the middle. It

0:30:03.360 --> 0:30:05.400
<v Speaker 2>goes really high, and it goes really low, and it

0:30:05.480 --> 0:30:08.360
<v Speaker 2>always comes back to the middle. Everything passes, and so

0:30:08.480 --> 0:30:11.040
<v Speaker 2>it is kind of moving to look back on that

0:30:11.080 --> 0:30:13.560
<v Speaker 2>and realize you're own strength, or realize, like, my god,

0:30:13.600 --> 0:30:16.680
<v Speaker 2>what a huge reaction. I'm fine, it was fine, And

0:30:16.760 --> 0:30:17.920
<v Speaker 2>I was young. I know.

0:30:18.200 --> 0:30:21.880
<v Speaker 1>That's so funny. We've been moving around since COVID, into

0:30:21.920 --> 0:30:25.160
<v Speaker 1>so different countries, different houses, and I found a box

0:30:25.200 --> 0:30:29.479
<v Speaker 1>of diaries and one of the entries from when I

0:30:29.600 --> 0:30:32.800
<v Speaker 1>was ten and it was so funny. It literally went,

0:30:33.920 --> 0:30:39.800
<v Speaker 1>this is my last entry because I am going to die.

0:30:40.920 --> 0:30:44.720
<v Speaker 1>I have so many of them, I mean so dramatic,

0:30:44.960 --> 0:30:45.760
<v Speaker 1>and I.

0:30:45.800 --> 0:30:48.080
<v Speaker 2>Have so many like that around ten years old, and

0:30:48.120 --> 0:30:52.200
<v Speaker 2>it's like my sister is annoying me so much, she

0:30:52.320 --> 0:30:54.840
<v Speaker 2>is going to cause me a half stack. I'm going

0:30:54.920 --> 0:30:58.320
<v Speaker 2>to die. Here's my will. I need everything to my sister.

0:31:01.000 --> 0:31:07.400
<v Speaker 1>Sisters. What would be your last meal?

0:31:08.080 --> 0:31:08.800
<v Speaker 2>Pancakes?

0:31:09.880 --> 0:31:14.320
<v Speaker 1>Now hold please? Do you mean the thick American pancakes

0:31:14.320 --> 0:31:16.400
<v Speaker 1>that we did not grow up eating? Or do you

0:31:16.520 --> 0:31:20.320
<v Speaker 1>mean the thin pancakes that we would have on shrive Tuesday?

0:31:20.520 --> 0:31:21.200
<v Speaker 1>Thank you?

0:31:21.440 --> 0:31:25.680
<v Speaker 2>Exactly, absolutely, the thin, thin pancakes from shrive Tuesday.

0:31:25.760 --> 0:31:26.880
<v Speaker 1>That's a great exactly.

0:31:26.880 --> 0:31:32.880
<v Speaker 2>Americans grapes with lemon jam, A huge stack of them.

0:31:32.920 --> 0:31:35.960
<v Speaker 2>I used to just put them away on my mom.

0:31:36.000 --> 0:31:38.560
<v Speaker 1>That's so funny. My mother used to stand at the

0:31:38.600 --> 0:31:41.240
<v Speaker 1>stove and she would be there for forty five.

0:31:41.080 --> 0:31:44.120
<v Speaker 2>Minutes after the other, after the other, after It's.

0:31:43.960 --> 0:31:46.400
<v Speaker 1>Also about the heat of the pan, you know, once

0:31:46.440 --> 0:31:47.880
<v Speaker 1>it's got to the optimum.

0:31:47.960 --> 0:31:51.640
<v Speaker 5>Because she would always pancakes for the doll ones. They

0:31:51.640 --> 0:31:57.479
<v Speaker 5>would always be and once it's got to that brilliant temperature. Also,

0:31:57.680 --> 0:31:59.320
<v Speaker 5>I would be able to defend in a court of

0:31:59.400 --> 0:32:03.400
<v Speaker 5>law that lemon and sugar is the greatest of all

0:32:03.720 --> 0:32:05.400
<v Speaker 5>the saturations and toppings.

0:32:05.560 --> 0:32:06.280
<v Speaker 1>It beats, it.

0:32:06.240 --> 0:32:07.560
<v Speaker 2>Beats everything there with you.

0:32:08.600 --> 0:32:11.320
<v Speaker 1>And people have tried to took me into natlla and banana.

0:32:11.480 --> 0:32:14.280
<v Speaker 1>I've actually even tried to took me into jam. I

0:32:14.360 --> 0:32:16.600
<v Speaker 1>cannot ever leave lemon and sugar.

0:32:17.280 --> 0:32:19.640
<v Speaker 2>Jam with a little bit of lemon, I do recommend

0:32:19.640 --> 0:32:20.600
<v Speaker 2>a sin sin.

0:32:21.080 --> 0:32:24.640
<v Speaker 1>That may because you have to have that sharp sour.

0:32:24.920 --> 0:32:27.680
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, that's why. That's why the lemon and sugar.

0:32:27.880 --> 0:32:31.720
<v Speaker 1>Just oh my god, it's so it's so true. I

0:32:31.760 --> 0:32:33.880
<v Speaker 1>do remember being in a really fancy restaurant with my

0:32:33.960 --> 0:32:37.959
<v Speaker 1>dad when I was probably about nine, so inappropriately in

0:32:38.000 --> 0:32:41.320
<v Speaker 1>this very fancy restaurant and they were making crepe suzette

0:32:41.360 --> 0:32:43.480
<v Speaker 1>at the table. So they were making these pancakes and

0:32:43.520 --> 0:32:47.040
<v Speaker 1>they light the pan on fire, and the guy he'd

0:32:47.080 --> 0:32:50.240
<v Speaker 1>done this huge performance, and I remember we put the

0:32:50.280 --> 0:32:52.320
<v Speaker 1>pancake on my plate with a flourish and I remember

0:32:52.320 --> 0:32:57.720
<v Speaker 1>standing up and going, it is just a pancake. And

0:32:57.800 --> 0:33:01.120
<v Speaker 1>my dad was just horrified and he was like, shut up,

0:33:01.160 --> 0:33:04.640
<v Speaker 1>it's crepes, is it? And I was like no, it

0:33:04.760 --> 0:33:09.760
<v Speaker 1>is a pancake, like mummakes fraud. It I was calling fraud.

0:33:09.840 --> 0:33:12.280
<v Speaker 1>It was like everyone was agreeing that this was something

0:33:12.280 --> 0:33:13.600
<v Speaker 1>that clearly was not.

0:33:14.040 --> 0:33:16.240
<v Speaker 2>But that's the kid that I wanted to be. That's

0:33:16.280 --> 0:33:19.680
<v Speaker 2>the kid with the lack of obedience that challenges the

0:33:19.840 --> 0:33:20.720
<v Speaker 2>status quo.

0:33:21.120 --> 0:33:23.600
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, Lucy, it's so interesting because like.

0:33:23.560 --> 0:33:24.000
<v Speaker 2>I love it.

0:33:24.040 --> 0:33:25.000
<v Speaker 1>I was that child.

0:33:25.320 --> 0:33:26.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm so jealous.

0:33:27.000 --> 0:33:27.720
<v Speaker 3>But you know what.

0:33:27.640 --> 0:33:31.280
<v Speaker 1>Happens to that person is you get beaten by that,

0:33:32.120 --> 0:33:35.960
<v Speaker 1>You get absolutely rounded on for being that. It's so

0:33:36.080 --> 0:33:38.160
<v Speaker 1>interesting that there is clearly a punishment, and I think

0:33:38.160 --> 0:33:42.280
<v Speaker 1>it is particularly for young women. Absolutely if you are

0:33:42.360 --> 0:33:45.520
<v Speaker 1>left having to unpick the not speaking out, and if

0:33:45.560 --> 0:33:49.600
<v Speaker 1>you speak out, believe me, you will get savaged. But

0:33:49.640 --> 0:33:51.040
<v Speaker 1>there's no easy way out of it.

0:33:51.280 --> 0:33:54.680
<v Speaker 2>And I wonder if at least it has to be

0:33:54.720 --> 0:33:58.200
<v Speaker 2>getting better. So more and more women doing that is

0:33:58.280 --> 0:34:02.240
<v Speaker 2>more and more examples to young girls who then become that.

0:34:03.080 --> 0:34:05.240
<v Speaker 2>And so I keep using her as a reference because

0:34:05.240 --> 0:34:07.520
<v Speaker 2>I look up to her so much. But my sister

0:34:07.680 --> 0:34:10.520
<v Speaker 2>has faced that and now it doesn't seem to shake

0:34:10.560 --> 0:34:12.920
<v Speaker 2>her because she's been able to look to those women

0:34:13.680 --> 0:34:15.080
<v Speaker 2>and see that and be like I want to be

0:34:15.120 --> 0:34:17.839
<v Speaker 2>the loud voice rather than the quiet acceptance.

0:34:18.120 --> 0:34:20.640
<v Speaker 1>Well, maybe there's the middle path as well, that the

0:34:20.680 --> 0:34:23.840
<v Speaker 1>loud voice also eventually doesn't become the loud voice exactly,

0:34:23.920 --> 0:34:26.480
<v Speaker 1>it becomes the voice. It becomes the voice of reason.

0:34:27.080 --> 0:34:29.560
<v Speaker 2>But also the loud voice has been the voice of reason.

0:34:29.560 --> 0:34:32.880
<v Speaker 2>It's just been such an unreasonable environment. That's exactly is

0:34:33.160 --> 0:34:35.520
<v Speaker 2>protest to state the most obvious.

0:34:35.800 --> 0:34:38.320
<v Speaker 1>That feels like it goes into exactly what you were saying.

0:34:38.640 --> 0:34:41.200
<v Speaker 1>You choose the path that you can actually affect change on,

0:34:41.239 --> 0:34:44.120
<v Speaker 1>and perhaps that is speaking to the young actors that

0:34:44.160 --> 0:34:46.799
<v Speaker 1>you then work with. That's when you work with a

0:34:46.800 --> 0:34:49.440
<v Speaker 1>twelve year old actress, it's a very different conversation than

0:34:49.480 --> 0:34:53.760
<v Speaker 1>someone was perhaps having with you. I've found that on sets,

0:34:53.880 --> 0:34:56.439
<v Speaker 1>like my area of expertise is that I am now

0:34:56.560 --> 0:34:59.200
<v Speaker 1>a fifty three year old version of maybe the twenty

0:34:59.200 --> 0:35:01.799
<v Speaker 1>three year old woman that I'm also working with. So

0:35:01.800 --> 0:35:05.239
<v Speaker 1>there's so much exchange. There is so much that can

0:35:05.239 --> 0:35:08.440
<v Speaker 1>be offered between the two of us, which then forges

0:35:08.480 --> 0:35:10.359
<v Speaker 1>a pat and also the young men who are then

0:35:10.400 --> 0:35:13.120
<v Speaker 1>observing and listening to those conversations or that we're having

0:35:13.160 --> 0:35:15.840
<v Speaker 1>conversations with. That is how you fashion a different narrative

0:35:15.960 --> 0:35:18.120
<v Speaker 1>is by having that narrative totally.

0:35:18.320 --> 0:35:20.400
<v Speaker 2>And I think you can see the progress and that

0:35:20.520 --> 0:35:23.360
<v Speaker 2>happening of it being less a priority to be a

0:35:23.440 --> 0:35:27.520
<v Speaker 2>quote unquote team player in our industry where I'm very

0:35:27.560 --> 0:35:29.399
<v Speaker 2>aware that I've come into the industry or at least

0:35:29.440 --> 0:35:32.000
<v Speaker 2>become an adult at a time when enough women have

0:35:32.080 --> 0:35:35.600
<v Speaker 2>been saying that, don't prioritize being liked. Because see, even

0:35:35.600 --> 0:35:37.319
<v Speaker 2>when you're a team player, I don't know, it's just

0:35:37.360 --> 0:35:42.200
<v Speaker 2>having to learn to be comfortable with people being uncomfortable

0:35:42.200 --> 0:35:45.319
<v Speaker 2>by you just stand up for yourself and it's worth it,

0:35:45.320 --> 0:35:48.560
<v Speaker 2>and it's so uncomfortable at the time, and you feel

0:35:48.560 --> 0:35:49.400
<v Speaker 2>like such a problem.

0:35:49.600 --> 0:35:52.200
<v Speaker 1>I've noticed. It's the way that one delivers. Yes is

0:35:52.200 --> 0:35:55.800
<v Speaker 1>what you do. And I hate that the idea that

0:35:55.880 --> 0:35:57.719
<v Speaker 1>a woman has to sort of speak more quietly or

0:35:57.800 --> 0:36:00.000
<v Speaker 1>she's called shrill. But it's not that. It's sort of

0:36:00.120 --> 0:36:02.600
<v Speaker 1>about being a human and going no, no, no, I

0:36:02.680 --> 0:36:04.880
<v Speaker 1>connect with what I'm saying, and I can have the

0:36:04.960 --> 0:36:07.120
<v Speaker 1>patience to say what I need to say in a

0:36:07.160 --> 0:36:09.560
<v Speaker 1>way that it is more likely to be heard.

0:36:10.000 --> 0:36:12.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because you don't have to rise to the way

0:36:12.000 --> 0:36:14.920
<v Speaker 2>that it's been brought to you. Yeah, you can be

0:36:15.040 --> 0:36:16.799
<v Speaker 2>there in issue too.

0:36:17.680 --> 0:36:23.279
<v Speaker 1>Respect Oh Lucy, it's just been the most wonderful conversation.

0:36:23.920 --> 0:36:27.800
<v Speaker 1>It's so brilliant talking to you. You're such a fantastic person,

0:36:28.040 --> 0:36:30.560
<v Speaker 1>you really are. I'm so glad that you're out there working.

0:36:30.600 --> 0:36:33.120
<v Speaker 1>You're such a great actor and you're such an excellent person.

0:36:33.360 --> 0:36:35.000
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for having me, and also thank

0:36:35.040 --> 0:36:37.520
<v Speaker 2>you so much for doing this podcast, and thank you

0:36:37.600 --> 0:36:39.840
<v Speaker 2>for all the times you have been the loudest voice

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<v Speaker 2>and honestly, profusely, profusely grateful for you.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you, Darling.

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<v Speaker 1>One Fantastic Mini Questions is hosted and written by Me

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<v Speaker 1>Mini Driver, Executive produced by Me and Aaron Kaufman, with

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<v Speaker 1>production support from Jennifer Bassett, Zoey Denkler and Ali Perry.

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<v Speaker 3>The theme music is also by Me and additional music

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<v Speaker 3>by Aaron Kaufman.

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<v Speaker 1>Special thanks to Jim Nikolay Addison, O'Day, Henry Driver, Lisa Castella,

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<v Speaker 1>Anick Oppenheim, A, Nick Muller and Annette Wolfe, A wkpr,

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<v Speaker 1>Will Pearson, Nicki Etoor, Morgan Lavoy and Mangesh had Tickadore