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Speaker 1: Well, I'm so glad that you were here doing this.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: Too much for having you.

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Speaker 1: How come my little cultural pot one little cultural anthology,

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Speaker 1: which is how I lovetily like to think about it.

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Speaker 2: I love that.

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Speaker 1: Hello, I'm mini driver. I've always loved Preust's questionnaire. It

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Speaker 1: was originally in nineteenth century parlor game where players would

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Speaker 1: ask each other thirty five questions aimed at revealing the

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Speaker 1: other player's true nature. In asking different people the same

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Speaker 1: set of questions, you can make observations about which truths

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Speaker 1: appear to be universal. And it made me wonder, what

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Speaker 1: if these questions were just the jumping off point, what

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Speaker 1: greater depths would be revealed if I asked these questions

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Speaker 1: as conversation starters. So I adapted Prus's questionnaire and I

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Speaker 1: wrote my own seven questions that I personally think are

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Speaker 1: pertinent to a person's story.

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Speaker 3: They are when and where were you happiest? What is

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Speaker 3: the quality you likely about yourself? What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines.

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Speaker 1: Love for you?

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Speaker 3: What question would you most like answered, What person, place,

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Speaker 3: or experience has shaped you the most? What would be

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Speaker 3: your last meal? And can you tell me something in

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Speaker 3: your life? That's grown out of a personal disaster, and

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Speaker 3: I've gathered a group of really remarkable people, ones that

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Speaker 3: I am honored and humbled to have had the chance

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Speaker 3: to engage with. You may not hear their answers to

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Speaker 3: all seven of these questions. We've whittled it down to

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Speaker 3: which questions felt closest to their experience, or the most surprising,

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Speaker 3: or created the most fertile ground to connect.

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Speaker 1: My guest today on Mini Questions is the actor and

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Speaker 1: all round excellent person Lucy Boynton. I first met Lucy

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Speaker 1: when we were shooting the film Chevalier in Prague. Over

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Speaker 1: the course of promoting a film, you get to spend

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Speaker 1: time with the people in it, and Lucy is just

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Speaker 1: one of the most interesting and thoughtful.

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Speaker 3: Women I've met in a long time.

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Speaker 1: She considers things. I'm really inspired by how she doesn't

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Speaker 1: just quickly answer a question when it's posed to fill

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Speaker 1: the space to hold the floor, but rather takes her

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Speaker 1: time responding and then revels in the answer. She attributes

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Speaker 1: this to having grown up in a household of journalists

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Speaker 1: where the question was the thing. Actors are funny people,

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Speaker 1: I mean funny peculiar by that we appear extrovert, when

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Speaker 1: there is actually a whole other, inward facing person interrogating

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Speaker 1: things and wondering if any of it is fit for

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Speaker 1: public consumption. Lucy gracefully inhabits both these aspects, and I

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Speaker 1: always look forward to seeing her and to watching what

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Speaker 1: films she chooses to make. I'm particularly looking forward to

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Speaker 1: seeing The Greatest Hits, her newest movie out now on Hulu.

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Speaker 1: Where and when were you happiest?

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Speaker 2: I found it so hard to answer, because I think

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Speaker 2: my answer to that would change so much all the

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Speaker 2: time based on what I currently want and like what

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Speaker 2: I'm currently seeking. But I think the one that really

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Speaker 2: springs to mind is I had a five day period

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one where I had just finished filming

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Speaker 2: The Hipgris File and I was about to go onto

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Speaker 2: this mini series when I had five days of quarantine

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Speaker 2: way back when we had to do that, and I

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Speaker 2: was so content. I just finished a job that was

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Speaker 2: one of the best times of my life personal experience

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Speaker 2: wise and work wise. I was about to go onto

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Speaker 2: something I loved so much, and that in terms of

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Speaker 2: work that's been kind of the dream forever, feeling safe

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Speaker 2: in it and feeling inspired by it. And energized by it,

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Speaker 2: and it had just been so rewarding working with such

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Speaker 2: brilliant people as well that I'm still so close with,

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Speaker 2: So it was really personally impactful as well. It was

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Speaker 2: a period of time where I just felt contentment.

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Speaker 1: I heard Julia Roberts interviewed once and she said, for her,

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Speaker 1: the best time was the time between when one job

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Speaker 1: ended but you knew another one was beginning. And I

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Speaker 1: think it's so many actors have this feeling of we

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Speaker 1: never know where the next job is coming from. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you're one of most actors, so that feeling of

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Speaker 1: safety bookended by work. Do you think that safety for

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Speaker 1: you is part of contentment, that the incredible instability of

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Speaker 1: being an actor and not knowing, well, perhaps I will

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Speaker 1: be able to pay my mortgage or can I look

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Speaker 1: a year down the line, and is it okay if

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Speaker 1: I go on holiday? Is it okay if I make

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Speaker 1: plans for my future financially because I have no idea

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Speaker 1: if I'm going to be able to underwrite that with work? Exactly,

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Speaker 1: the safety factor into happiness for.

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Speaker 2: You totally, because it also gives you a momentary sense

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Speaker 2: of structure of your life, kind of like what you're saying,

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Speaker 2: but it allows me to understand where I'll be and when,

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Speaker 2: so then I can start to shape my life. So

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Speaker 2: in that pocket of time, I felt that satisfied feeling

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Speaker 2: of being exhausted by something that you loved, something is

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Speaker 2: on the horizon. But now I'm dipping back into my

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Speaker 2: life life and I'm present with my friends and family again,

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Speaker 2: and I know where I'll be for the next chunk

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Speaker 2: of time, so I can also start to shape my

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Speaker 2: personal life in a way that when you don't know

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Speaker 2: when you're working next, you can't.

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Speaker 1: Except So what do you think the attraction of this itinerancy?

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Speaker 1: Because it is in this life that we live, because

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Speaker 1: it's certainly nothing that anyone It's so funny. Everyone always

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Speaker 1: talked about the unemployment as an actor, but no one

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Speaker 1: ever went you better get ready to live out of

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Speaker 1: a suitcase for the rest of your life and miss weddings,

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Speaker 1: miss funerals, miss christenings, miss birthdays, miss big family events.

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Speaker 1: Why is it so compelling?

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Speaker 2: I think there is just something appealing about I don't

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Speaker 2: know where I'll be this time, next month, or next year,

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Speaker 2: and I feed off of that, and I think there's

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Speaker 2: a certain element whether it's kind of partially self destructive

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Speaker 2: or just the thrill of the unknown that your life

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Speaker 2: hasn't fallen into a pattern, and because I personally wouldn't

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Speaker 2: be able to enjoy that thing is. I don't know

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Speaker 2: how people do it with families. I don't know how

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Speaker 2: you manage it once you have kids, because you know,

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Speaker 2: I've done this since I was twelve, and I've always

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Speaker 2: been really free, like I can drop everything and go

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Speaker 2: somewhere next week and just hop on a plane wherever

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Speaker 2: I need to be. I can be. That has increasingly,

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Speaker 2: like as I get older, I find it harder to

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Speaker 2: realize how sometimes I can be the friend who can't

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Speaker 2: really depend on. You know, I'm less dependable in my

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Speaker 2: personal life because of all of this, and I'm struggling

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Speaker 2: with that more and more as I get older.

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Speaker 1: It's such a good point that I have felt like

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Speaker 1: such a bad friend, even though I know my love

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Speaker 1: remains constant always for my friends totally.

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Speaker 2: But you kind of let yourself off the hook a

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Speaker 2: little bit because it's always been this way, because it's

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Speaker 2: always been this kind of you know, out of the blue,

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Speaker 2: I'll be the other side of the world, and I

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Speaker 2: forgot to mention that.

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Speaker 1: It's a weird life. I don't have an enormous amount

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Speaker 1: of friends, I think as a result of it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I have very few, but very very good friends, because

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Speaker 1: you say exactly, you don't have the time to maintain

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Speaker 1: the peripheral nice friendships that are lovely people to have

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Speaker 1: over for dinner once every few months. But I don't

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Speaker 1: have anyone like that because if I'm home, there are

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Speaker 1: like four people that I've got to say, because I

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Speaker 1: don't know when I'm going to be gone. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: what question would you most like answered?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I've been racking my reins about this

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Speaker 2: and I have no answer.

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Speaker 1: I reject your question past.

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Speaker 2: I'm someone who feels quite content with the unknown. I

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Speaker 2: don't want to know about ma afterlife. I don't want

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Speaker 2: to know.

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Speaker 1: That's good though, that's very No one has ever said

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Speaker 1: that I am extremely content with the unknown that's really present.

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Speaker 2: It excites me more because it means that there's no

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Speaker 2: definitive answer. It means it's just so much more space

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Speaker 2: for your own interpretation or to just sit in it

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Speaker 2: as is and makes you much more present. And I

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Speaker 2: don't know, Yeah, not trying to control things with answers.

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Speaker 1: So hold on. So you come from a family who,

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Speaker 1: quite literally because they're journalists, are expected to have answers

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Speaker 1: in a way about cultural relevance, about politics, the facts

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Speaker 1: of science. So it feels like it was quite an

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Speaker 1: answer based sort of environment. So how do you fit

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Speaker 1: into that?

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Speaker 2: I think it's the inverse, it's question based environment. So

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Speaker 2: they source the answers from the experts, from the people

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Speaker 2: who do know, and their job is to facilitate and

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Speaker 2: ask the right questions to invite that conversation. And so

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Speaker 2: maybe that's why then, because yeah, sitting around that table,

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Speaker 2: it's always been the most intellectually simulating debates, but without

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Speaker 2: any kind of definitive answer. It's always an awareness of

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Speaker 2: unless you're stating statistics, your stating interpretation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting because this all dovetails into the comfort

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Speaker 1: level with untelledness. And I don't mean that in a

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Speaker 1: way that it is applied to women and mental health.

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Speaker 1: I mean in terms of of again the itinerancy of

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Speaker 1: being an actor, the idea of being so present, or

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Speaker 1: being more interested in the present than in the unknown,

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Speaker 1: or sitting worrying about gosh, I wonder what the answer

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Speaker 1: that is, rather than what is it relkas Head, keep

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Speaker 1: asking the questions until you live the answers, so you

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Speaker 1: live the answer in a present moment rather than sort

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Speaker 1: of seeking it as this thing that's always just up ahead.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that keeps you open to the

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Speaker 2: idea that there's no definitive answer, that it's just like

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Speaker 2: a collection of information, and you kind of quilt that

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Speaker 2: together and you're okay with that fas to form. Yeah, yes,

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Speaker 2: because it frees me. I think I'm not trying to

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Speaker 2: get to an end result. I think I would just

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Speaker 2: kind of reject that.

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Speaker 1: I say that to myself. I wrote a book with

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Speaker 1: that as the central thesis, clearly because it is something

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Speaker 1: I long to be able to really fundamentally. No, there

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Speaker 1: is no there there. It is here and only here,

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Speaker 1: and that's completely fine. That's brilliant.

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Speaker 2: I think, isn't that the most freeing thing there? Because

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Speaker 2: it's like this idea that I don't know, when you

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Speaker 2: just sit in the idea that everything is made up

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Speaker 2: and it's all just happening now and.

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Speaker 1: It is all fiction. I agree, it is all and

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Speaker 1: it's a fiction that.

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Speaker 2: Is like, yeah, giant playground, and so it just immediately

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Speaker 2: becomes I mean fascical.

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Speaker 1: Look, I think you've got a right like you know,

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Speaker 1: the Dow of Boynton Babes.

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Speaker 2: The World by Lucy Winton.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, what relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love?

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Speaker 1: For you?

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Speaker 2: All my female friendships and predominantly only when I was

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Speaker 2: thinking about this question that I actually take time to

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Speaker 2: really like analyze the relationships in my life. And I

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Speaker 2: think we talk about romantic relationships so much more and

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Speaker 2: romanticize them, whereas like female friendships and best friendships, we

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Speaker 2: just don't. And my friend Ellen and I we're best

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Speaker 2: friend since we were eleven. It's been so unconditional, it's

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Speaker 2: been so dependable, and we've just given each other so

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Speaker 2: much grace to really grow and change as people, and

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Speaker 2: in so many ways we're really different, and yet relentlessly

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Speaker 2: we're still there for each other. And it's just it's

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Speaker 2: kind of remarkable.

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Speaker 1: What you just described is probably the ideal of what

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Speaker 1: a relationship would be with a romantic partner, maybe just

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Speaker 1: as women. That's how the trajectory has always been. That's

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Speaker 1: what you're aiming for. I love that your definition of

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Speaker 1: is the female friendship. You have the blueprint for that

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Speaker 1: in your life and that one doesn't really need much

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Speaker 1: outside of that. I don't think I'm very interested in

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Speaker 1: why we're pushed on romantic relationships so much more than

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Speaker 1: we are on the fundament of friendship with whomever. That is,

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Speaker 1: whoever our best friends are, our best relationships are.

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Speaker 2: I feel like that's all just so like entrenched in

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Speaker 2: traditional and misogyny and women having to marry men in

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Speaker 2: order to have a bank account, yeah, and be able

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Speaker 2: to do anything exact. Now that that landscape is changing

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Speaker 2: so much, I think the rhetoric is changing, and I

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Speaker 2: think you're seeing it in a wave of women having

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Speaker 2: much higher standards and saying kind of I'm actually not

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Speaker 2: going to settle for this what previously you kind of

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Speaker 2: had to. And I think part of that is like

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Speaker 2: more fulfillment in your life in general, but also realizing, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and these friendships you get.

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Speaker 1: All of that, I mean, one hundred percent, and if you.

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Speaker 2: Nurture that, it is such a strong foundation for your life.

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Speaker 1: So interesting, You're right, like, I don't even think about

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Speaker 1: the systemic programming that I have, what I realize, even

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Speaker 1: though I have always longed just to do what I

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Speaker 1: do for a living and acting has been this great passion, always, always,

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Speaker 1: always this idea that I had to find that person

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Speaker 1: to love and to love me, and that superseded everything,

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Speaker 1: and that was always the quest, and that not happening

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Speaker 1: until my late forties. I've realized I thought of that

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Speaker 1: as a failure and it's such utter bollocks.

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Speaker 2: Because it's this constant message that you're not enough on

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Speaker 2: your own, and that women aren't enough on their own,

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Speaker 2: certainty validated by the presence of a male partner. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and then you're successful, Yeah, even if you've had the

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Speaker 2: job all along. Then you're stamped with okay, decent person exactly.

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Speaker 1: And the idea of belonging, like my boyfriend doesn't want

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Speaker 1: to get married, my parents weren't married. Now I'm like,

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Speaker 1: where does this come from?

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Speaker 2: This?

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Speaker 1: And it's an idea about belonging, of someone choosing me,

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Speaker 1: because I think I was programmed to believe someone has

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Speaker 1: to choose me, and when you look at what we

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Speaker 1: do for a living, fundamentally that's also what it is.

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Speaker 1: You have to get chosen over all the other people.

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Speaker 1: But it really just comes back to lack of self worth.

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Speaker 1: For me.

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Speaker 2: I've done so much analysis of like why do women

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Speaker 2: feel this way about it because of who my sister is.

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Speaker 2: When I was sixteen, she handed me the book Kunt

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Speaker 2: and told me that the patriarchy is taking advantage of me,

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Speaker 2: and the tampon industry are taking advantage of me. Read up.

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Speaker 1: Your sister should be talking in schools.

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Speaker 2: She should be. She runs a monthly event, Sex Talks,

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Speaker 2: and it's everyone leaving feeling empowered.

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Speaker 1: And sounds like she was ahead of the curve because

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Speaker 1: that word like empowerment, which is what women, particularly young women,

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Speaker 1: I think, are getting to feel now for the first time,

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Speaker 1: and it be acknowledged by outside forces. I'm much older

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Speaker 1: than you, but I remember when my aunt and my

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Speaker 1: mother were protesting at Greenham Common about the nuclear bombs

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Speaker 1: that we were going to be housing, and I remember

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Speaker 1: how they were just presented on the news as these

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Speaker 1: dirty hippie women who were not tethered to families or people.

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Speaker 1: They were so othered because they stepped out of exactly

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Speaker 1: what you said, this heteronormative idea of what a woman

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Speaker 1: is supposed to be, and all that stuff goes in

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Speaker 1: and we are now I'm picking that. I watched my

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Speaker 1: nieces and my friend's children and like you know, speaking

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Speaker 1: to young women like you, it's so great to know

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Speaker 1: that it's just not acceptable anymore, that you don't accept it.

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Speaker 2: Still, it is happening so slowly, and you're grateful that

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Speaker 2: it's happening across the board, but you realize how much

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Speaker 2: of everything is entrenched in that. And still the media

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Speaker 2: I think plays such a huge role in keeping us

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Speaker 2: static in that in the differences of the way men

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Speaker 2: and women are portrayed.

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Speaker 1: What do you think do you think that we should

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Speaker 1: be going on marches against the patriot I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: think of, like.

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Speaker 2: What, I don't know, because it's so entrenched in our fabric.

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Speaker 2: It's built by them for them. Supposedly, the answer is

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Speaker 2: to pick a lane, so you can't disassemble the thing

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Speaker 2: in its entirety all at once. So choose something that

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Speaker 2: you're very passionate about changing and then start shipping away

303
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Speaker 2: at it from there, so then everyone does that. I

304
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Speaker 2: think that's a brilliant whole thing starts to crumble, and

305
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,280
Speaker 2: I do think that is the dissemination of information. That

306
00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,560
Speaker 2: is about speaking with each other and going, oh my goodness,

307
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Speaker 2: this is you feel this too, and this has been

308
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Speaker 2: your experience too.

309
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Speaker 1: So someone like looking at you and they would see

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Speaker 1: a picture of you looking beautiful in a magazine and

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Speaker 1: then there would maybe have the opportunity to listen to you,

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Speaker 1: for example here or somewhere else and correlate. Ah, a beautiful,

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00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:36,920
Speaker 1: successful woman can also be interrogating ideas that need to

314
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Speaker 1: disassemble shit that we've all just been accepting. And perhaps

315
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Speaker 1: it's a very big ship and it is taking a

316
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Speaker 1: really long fucking time to turn it around. I do

317
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Speaker 1: think it's happening, but I agree with you the slowness

318
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Speaker 1: of it is glacial and it's fucking annoying. I really

319
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Speaker 1: like that. I like that about picking a lane, shipping

320
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Speaker 1: away in that way.

321
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Speaker 2: And I do think we're lucky because we do have

322
00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,320
Speaker 2: the opportunity in this job to you know, even like

323
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,119
Speaker 2: with Chevalier this film, where you get to hold a

324
00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,320
Speaker 2: mirror up to people that is kind of trojan horsing

325
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:15,639
Speaker 2: your message. You're getting to offer really tangible experience of

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Speaker 2: empathy that is otherwise a more analytical process of someone

327
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Speaker 2: having to read about a thing and then imagine, whereas

328
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Speaker 2: with film and the entertainment industry, I think you are

329
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Speaker 2: just offered it. There's very much more kind of visceral

330
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Speaker 2: experience of that, and.

331
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Speaker 1: It's immersive too. It's a very elegant way of giving

332
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Speaker 1: meaning to what we do beyond the sort of raw

333
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,399
Speaker 1: going to the movies. Having an experience, particularly with stories

334
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,080
Speaker 1: like Chevalier, you can introduce an essentially a raised story

335
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,680
Speaker 1: and it be beautiful and entertaining and devastating and raw.

336
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Speaker 1: So that's very interesting. You see what person, place, or

337
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,639
Speaker 1: experience most altered your life.

338
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Speaker 2: This is going to be such an obvious answer, but

339
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,359
Speaker 2: it's starting this job when I was twelve. Well, my

340
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,560
Speaker 2: first job was playing the young bittrick s Potter and

341
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:13,480
Speaker 2: Miss Potter so cute, and I think I didn't realize

342
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:19,600
Speaker 2: how much this job has impacted my formation of self

343
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,320
Speaker 2: until I started doing therapy and in our first session,

344
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,040
Speaker 2: I was going through the trajectory of my life so

345
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,680
Speaker 2: that she kind of understand who I was, and then

346
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Speaker 2: part of it was you know, and then I started

347
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Speaker 2: acting at like eleven twelve, and she's like, oh, okay,

348
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Speaker 2: that's going to be a big one. I was like, no, no, no, Honestly,

349
00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:37,919
Speaker 2: I have such a healthy relationship with it, like you know,

350
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Speaker 2: another actors present in the families you know, expectations, not

351
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:46,320
Speaker 2: controlling parents by any means really supportive, solid foundation or

352
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,280
Speaker 2: good or good. And then we started to unpick it,

353
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:51,720
Speaker 2: and it's like, oh no, this is the source of

354
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,800
Speaker 2: so much shit to be untangled.

355
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Speaker 1: So what pit one thing just because I'm fascinated because

356
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:02,800
Speaker 1: you're so little and such a formative moment, Yeah, what

357
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,040
Speaker 1: is one pathway that that led you down that you've

358
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:05,920
Speaker 1: had to unpick?

359
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:11,000
Speaker 2: I mean the main two is obedience and then trusting

360
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,080
Speaker 2: my own feelings. So I find that my relationship with

361
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,400
Speaker 2: obedience was the main thing that came out of these

362
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,399
Speaker 2: therapy sessions that I was really stunned by and disappointed with,

363
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:25,879
Speaker 2: because I think in most workforces in industries, obedience is rewarded,

364
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,160
Speaker 2: and especially obedience without question is rewarded. But in our industry,

365
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,040
Speaker 2: I think there are really tangible ways that's rewarded. And

366
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Speaker 2: from the bare minimum, the way that you're hitting your mark,

367
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:37,720
Speaker 2: you turn up with all your lines.

368
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,680
Speaker 1: Learned, someone else always has the last word, yeah.

369
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Speaker 2: And obedience becomes really tangible and constantly reinforcement, especially as

370
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,080
Speaker 2: a child, and I think as a young girl to

371
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:50,600
Speaker 2: have obedience as a kind of a goal every day

372
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Speaker 2: in a very tangible way, and your work environment is

373
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Speaker 2: really odd.

374
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Speaker 1: Wow.

375
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,879
Speaker 2: And my sister has always challenged every source of authority

376
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:02,240
Speaker 2: around her. She just kind of arrived that way, and

377
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,280
Speaker 2: I became the antithesis of that, and I hate it.

378
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,400
Speaker 2: I don't challenge authority enough and have to make such

379
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,359
Speaker 2: a concerted effort to do that as I get older.

380
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,440
Speaker 2: And it's not even like seeking validation or praise. It's

381
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:19,960
Speaker 2: just seeking confirmation that you've done the thing or exceeded it.

382
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,240
Speaker 2: And that's it. It's not that I need the praise,

383
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,719
Speaker 2: it's that the box has been checked. And I've always

384
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:29,439
Speaker 2: looked outside of myself for that confirmation rather than do

385
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,040
Speaker 2: I feel like I've done it? Or am I aware

386
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 2: that I've done enough?

387
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Speaker 1: God, that's so interesting, Lucie.

388
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,760
Speaker 2: So that was the one thing and then the other. Yeah,

389
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:42,399
Speaker 2: I was trusting my own feelings because this job is

390
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,399
Speaker 2: really odd, and that as much as your brain knows

391
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:48,119
Speaker 2: or you can analytically know that this is a separate

392
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,320
Speaker 2: person to yourself, a separate experience to yourself, your body

393
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,560
Speaker 2: still experiences the chemical reactions to whatever you're telling it

394
00:20:54,560 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 2: you're going through. So from that age, I haven't solely

395
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,200
Speaker 2: been me, and so I find it hard to tap

396
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:09,400
Speaker 2: into my gut instinct and to know my own feelings

397
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 2: and thoughts through and through I really challenged them. I

398
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:16,840
Speaker 2: don't completely trust them because I'm constantly changing them. I'm

399
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,640
Speaker 2: constantly leaning into someone very different from myself.

400
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 1: Do you find that, because in a way, the more

401
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 1: one is not oneself, it actually throws into relief who

402
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 1: you are. The more you feel not yourself, you get

403
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,159
Speaker 1: to actually then connect with Oh goodness, that is actually

404
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 1: very other than who I am.

405
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,680
Speaker 2: Yes and no, Yes, when I'm playing someone really far

406
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,879
Speaker 2: from myself. But in recent years, I've played more characters

407
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 2: who were more similar to parts of me, or parts

408
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 2: of me that I wanted to exercise more and lean into.

409
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:55,120
Speaker 2: And so then when they start to bleed into one another, yeah,

410
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 2: I do find it hard to find myself and I

411
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,679
Speaker 2: do feel like I have I'm not kind of floating

412
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 2: between personalities. I do have a strong sense of self.

413
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 2: I just find that hard to trust sometimes.

414
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 1: And it's so interesting, And when you're talking about obedience,

415
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 1: it's so funny how it's like there's a whole universe

416
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 1: of expansion going on behind the incredibly structured notion of

417
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,199
Speaker 1: like obedience and ticking the boxes and playing by the

418
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,679
Speaker 1: rules so that you have an exterior that is cool.

419
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:29,119
Speaker 1: And then I love I love talking to you because

420
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:33,120
Speaker 1: it is like there's this whole universe of freedom going

421
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 1: on behind it, which is fantastic, because I got to

422
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,199
Speaker 1: tell you, without one you sound patronizing. As you get older,

423
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,439
Speaker 1: that universe of expansion just becomes more and more and

424
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 1: more who you are and what you live.

425
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm already feeling that more since the age of

426
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 2: twenty seven onwards. I've felt that more than ever, that

427
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 2: I'm turning away from things that don't feed me anymore

428
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,440
Speaker 2: and that I was locked into focusing on even though

429
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 2: it didn't help help me. And also just yeah, that

430
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 2: freedom of just like everything is made up, and so

431
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 2: I think part of that because you can slot into

432
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 2: so many different identities with this work, the idea of

433
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 2: the ultimate self isn't so precious. I'm not as protective

434
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 2: of it. It's much more of a fluid thing. So

435
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,640
Speaker 2: that's a good thing and then also a harder thing

436
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 2: because you can tap into any feeling, any point of

437
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 2: view and all of that.

438
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, it really does. I think what's really great

439
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 1: is that it doesn't sound like you punish yourself for

440
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 1: the person that you were, but rather they're sort of

441
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 1: continuing to fold into the person that you're becoming, which

442
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 1: maybe is a really healthy way. You know, we take

443
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,680
Speaker 1: all of our imperfection with us in our little backpack

444
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: as we move along without being angry about it, which

445
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 1: I think is what keeps us stuck as people.

446
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think I used to do that a

447
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 2: lot when I was younger, like stepping out of the

448
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 2: way that I wanted to be was unacceptable and kind

449
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 2: of punishable, whereas now it's just kind of like everyone's

450
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 2: winging it.

451
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 1: And do you think that you more trust your own

452
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 1: feelings or is that something that you continue to kind

453
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: of have to work on, or do you feel that

454
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 1: you do it more naturally now?

455
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,719
Speaker 2: I think I'm less analytical of it of just like

456
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 2: observe the feelings and let it pass, and then what

457
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 2: resonates and what is true will keep coming back and

458
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 2: you'll circle round to it again. And also just yeah,

459
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,479
Speaker 2: there's a kind of detachment from permanence. So it's like

460
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 2: my mum has always said it to us, and I

461
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 2: always repeat it to my sister and my friends. Of

462
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 2: like all of your feelings are valid. Just listen to that,

463
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 2: and it doesn't mean that it has to stick, but

464
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 2: just like observe it and then let it pass. So

465
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 2: I think I'm learning to like justify myself less by

466
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,959
Speaker 2: kind of clinging to those feelings and just living it

467
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 2: all flow. There's this book The Island by Aldus Huxley,

468
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 2: and in it there's this paragraphs that just says, go lightly,

469
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 2: and it just talks about like it's dark because you're

470
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 2: trying too hard. Go lightly lightly, And it's just the

471
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 2: most beautiful of just like we're so trying to clutch

472
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 2: to these things that we think are true and real

473
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 2: in us, and actually there's so much that we said

474
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 2: for just letting it go and just being and observing

475
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 2: and then letting it pass.

476
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: I love that, Gosh, particularly with the more challenging things

477
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 1: in life, to go lightly when you feel like you're

478
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 1: being pulled into the abyss of whether it's grief or

479
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 1: sadness or depression or whatever. To be able to remember

480
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,959
Speaker 1: that in those moments is so wonderful because it's simple

481
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: and it's direct, and it's actually prescriptive, which is great.

482
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 2: I know, it's kind of cliche, but it is, it

483
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 2: is how it shall be exactly. I've got the full thing.

484
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it'd be so lovely. Read it.

485
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 2: Yes, lightly, child, lightly, learn to do everything lightly. Yes,

486
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 2: feel lightly, even though you're feeling deeply, Just lightly let

487
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 2: things happen and lightly cope with them. I was so

488
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 2: preposterously serious in those days. Such a humorous, little prig.

489
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 2: Lightly lightly is the best advice ever given me when

490
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 2: it comes to dying. Even nothing ponderous or potentious or emphatic,

491
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 2: no rhetoric or tremulose, no self conscious persona putting on

492
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 2: its celebrated imitation of Christ or little Nell, and of course,

493
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 2: no theology, no metaphysics, just the fact of dying and

494
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 2: the fact of the clear light. So throw away your

495
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 2: baggage and go forward. Here A quick sounds all about you,

496
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 2: sucking at your feet, trying to suck you down into

497
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 2: fear and self pity and despair. That's why you must

498
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 2: walk so lightly, lightly, my darling, on tiptoes, and no luggage,

499
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 2: not even a spongebag, completely unencumbered.

500
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 1: Oh lows, No, I'm crying.

501
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 2: Isn't it beautiful?

502
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 1: The fact of the clear light?

503
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, that book is full of that kind of sentiment

504
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 2: of it's definitely a little dated in areas, but it's

505
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 2: full of understanding small self in the big, big landscape.

506
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: Exactly. Gosh, I don't have anything to add to that

507
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: is so beautifully said and so beautifully put in your life.

508
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: Can you tell me something that has grown out of

509
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 1: a personal disaster?

510
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 2: The ability to self soothe and the understanding that the

511
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 2: most impactful strength is self sourced. So when I've been

512
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 2: going through a really difficult time and I'm still in

513
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 2: the thick of it and still drowning in the feelings

514
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 2: and going through it and realizing that I'm coping and

515
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 2: that I'm getting through something that I didn't think I

516
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 2: had the kind of ability to the equipment too that

517
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 2: I thought would be that would wash me away and hasn't.

518
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:08,479
Speaker 2: I'm still here and I'm just coping.

519
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: So would you say that's like there are moments where

520
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: you get to be the observer around turmoil and can

521
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: see that you're sitting there shuddering and sad or whatever

522
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: the moment is, but you can see I am actually

523
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: still here and I am coping with it, and that's

524
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 1: the thing that will carry you on.

525
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that I'm stronger than I thought I was. Yeah,

526
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 2: that you're more unshakable than you think you are and

527
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 2: not that and that doesn't mean any lack of a

528
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 2: kind of emotional response or impact. It hasn't you, but

529
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 2: it just means you'll go out the other side. There's

530
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 2: this Emmy lou Harris song Boulded of Birmingham that she

531
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 2: wrote when Grandpasons died, and in it one of the

532
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,719
Speaker 2: most devastating lyrics is well you really got me this

533
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 2: time And the hardest part is knowing I'll survive, And

534
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 2: that I think resonates so much of just like regardless

535
00:28:55,560 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 2: of the intensity or severity the loss, the grief, you

536
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 2: come out the other side and you look back. And

537
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 2: I think that's why it's also important to always keep

538
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 2: a diary, because then I look back on these moments

539
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 2: where I was just like drowning in it, and here

540
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 2: I am a year later or whatever or however long after,

541
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 2: and having grown from it.

542
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: Would that be your how too? In terms of a

543
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: practical application, that keeping a diary, that journaling, that being

544
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: able to physicalize the emotions that you're going through and

545
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,719
Speaker 1: then being able to revisit it and see that you've

546
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: evolved or that you moved on from it. Is that

547
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: a practical application, do you think?

548
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 2: Yeah? And I think just in terms of also having

549
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 2: to verbalize, having to articulate exactly how you feel. And

550
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 2: there are times when I'm writing and it's like I'm

551
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 2: just not getting it, I'm not conveying it. So I

552
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 2: keep writing and it's such a cathartic purging of your feelings,

553
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 2: so that then I'm aware don't take as much of

554
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 2: it to someone else, and it stays kind of ugly

555
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 2: in its honesty, and so it can be much more cleansing.

556
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 2: And then you look back on it and it's just

557
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 2: this constant reminder of everything returns to the middle. It

558
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 2: goes really high, and it goes really low, and it

559
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 2: always comes back to the middle. Everything passes, and so

560
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 2: it is kind of moving to look back on that

561
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 2: and realize you're own strength, or realize, like, my god,

562
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 2: what a huge reaction. I'm fine, it was fine, And

563
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 2: I was young. I know.

564
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: That's so funny. We've been moving around since COVID, into

565
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: so different countries, different houses, and I found a box

566
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,479
Speaker 1: of diaries and one of the entries from when I

567
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: was ten and it was so funny. It literally went,

568
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: this is my last entry because I am going to die.

569
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: I have so many of them, I mean so dramatic,

570
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: and I.

571
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: Have so many like that around ten years old, and

572
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 2: it's like my sister is annoying me so much, she

573
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 2: is going to cause me a half stack. I'm going

574
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 2: to die. Here's my will. I need everything to my sister.

575
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: Sisters. What would be your last meal?

576
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 2: Pancakes?

577
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: Now hold please? Do you mean the thick American pancakes

578
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: that we did not grow up eating? Or do you

579
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 1: mean the thin pancakes that we would have on shrive Tuesday?

580
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: Thank you?

581
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 2: Exactly, absolutely, the thin, thin pancakes from shrive Tuesday.

582
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: That's a great exactly.

583
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 2: Americans grapes with lemon jam, A huge stack of them.

584
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 2: I used to just put them away on my mom.

585
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: That's so funny. My mother used to stand at the

586
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: stove and she would be there for forty five.

587
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 2: Minutes after the other, after the other, after It's.

588
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: Also about the heat of the pan, you know, once

589
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: it's got to the optimum.

590
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 5: Because she would always pancakes for the doll ones. They

591
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:57,479
Speaker 5: would always be and once it's got to that brilliant temperature. Also,

592
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 5: I would be able to defend in a court of

593
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 5: law that lemon and sugar is the greatest of all

594
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 5: the saturations and toppings.

595
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: It beats, it.

596
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 2: Beats everything there with you.

597
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 1: And people have tried to took me into natlla and banana.

598
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: I've actually even tried to took me into jam. I

599
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: cannot ever leave lemon and sugar.

600
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 2: Jam with a little bit of lemon, I do recommend

601
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 2: a sin sin.

602
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: That may because you have to have that sharp sour.

603
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that's why. That's why the lemon and sugar.

604
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: Just oh my god, it's so it's so true. I

605
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: do remember being in a really fancy restaurant with my

606
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,959
Speaker 1: dad when I was probably about nine, so inappropriately in

607
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: this very fancy restaurant and they were making crepe suzette

608
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: at the table. So they were making these pancakes and

609
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: they light the pan on fire, and the guy he'd

610
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: done this huge performance, and I remember we put the

611
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: pancake on my plate with a flourish and I remember

612
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: standing up and going, it is just a pancake. And

613
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: my dad was just horrified and he was like, shut up,

614
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: it's crepes, is it? And I was like no, it

615
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: is a pancake, like mummakes fraud. It I was calling fraud.

616
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: It was like everyone was agreeing that this was something

617
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: that clearly was not.

618
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 2: But that's the kid that I wanted to be. That's

619
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 2: the kid with the lack of obedience that challenges the

620
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 2: status quo.

621
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Lucy, it's so interesting because like.

622
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 2: I love it.

623
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: I was that child.

624
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 2: I'm so jealous.

625
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 3: But you know what.

626
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: Happens to that person is you get beaten by that,

627
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: You get absolutely rounded on for being that. It's so

628
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: interesting that there is clearly a punishment, and I think

629
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: it is particularly for young women. Absolutely if you are

630
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: left having to unpick the not speaking out, and if

631
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: you speak out, believe me, you will get savaged. But

632
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: there's no easy way out of it.

633
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 2: And I wonder if at least it has to be

634
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 2: getting better. So more and more women doing that is

635
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 2: more and more examples to young girls who then become that.

636
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 2: And so I keep using her as a reference because

637
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 2: I look up to her so much. But my sister

638
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 2: has faced that and now it doesn't seem to shake

639
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 2: her because she's been able to look to those women

640
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 2: and see that and be like I want to be

641
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,839
Speaker 2: the loud voice rather than the quiet acceptance.

642
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: Well, maybe there's the middle path as well, that the

643
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 1: loud voice also eventually doesn't become the loud voice exactly,

644
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: it becomes the voice. It becomes the voice of reason.

645
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 2: But also the loud voice has been the voice of reason.

646
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 2: It's just been such an unreasonable environment. That's exactly is

647
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 2: protest to state the most obvious.

648
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 1: That feels like it goes into exactly what you were saying.

649
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: You choose the path that you can actually affect change on,

650
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: and perhaps that is speaking to the young actors that

651
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 1: you then work with. That's when you work with a

652
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: twelve year old actress, it's a very different conversation than

653
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 1: someone was perhaps having with you. I've found that on sets,

654
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,439
Speaker 1: like my area of expertise is that I am now

655
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: a fifty three year old version of maybe the twenty

656
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 1: three year old woman that I'm also working with. So

657
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 1: there's so much exchange. There is so much that can

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00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 1: be offered between the two of us, which then forges

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00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 1: a pat and also the young men who are then

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00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: observing and listening to those conversations or that we're having

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00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 1: conversations with. That is how you fashion a different narrative

662
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: is by having that narrative totally.

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00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 2: And I think you can see the progress and that

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00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 2: happening of it being less a priority to be a

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00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 2: quote unquote team player in our industry where I'm very

666
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,399
Speaker 2: aware that I've come into the industry or at least

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00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 2: become an adult at a time when enough women have

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00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 2: been saying that, don't prioritize being liked. Because see, even

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00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 2: when you're a team player, I don't know, it's just

670
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 2: having to learn to be comfortable with people being uncomfortable

671
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 2: by you just stand up for yourself and it's worth it,

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00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 2: and it's so uncomfortable at the time, and you feel

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00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 2: like such a problem.

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00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: I've noticed. It's the way that one delivers. Yes is

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00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,800
Speaker 1: what you do. And I hate that the idea that

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00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: a woman has to sort of speak more quietly or

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00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: she's called shrill. But it's not that. It's sort of

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00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: about being a human and going no, no, no, I

679
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 1: connect with what I'm saying, and I can have the

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00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: patience to say what I need to say in a

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00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: way that it is more likely to be heard.

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00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you don't have to rise to the way

683
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 2: that it's been brought to you. Yeah, you can be

684
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 2: there in issue too.

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00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: Respect Oh Lucy, it's just been the most wonderful conversation.

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00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,800
Speaker 1: It's so brilliant talking to you. You're such a fantastic person,

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00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 1: you really are. I'm so glad that you're out there working.

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00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: You're such a great actor and you're such an excellent person.

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00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me, and also thank

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00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 2: you so much for doing this podcast, and thank you

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00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 2: for all the times you have been the loudest voice

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00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 2: and honestly, profusely, profusely grateful for you.

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00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 3: Thank you, Darling.

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00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: One Fantastic Mini Questions is hosted and written by Me

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00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: Mini Driver, Executive produced by Me and Aaron Kaufman, with

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00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: production support from Jennifer Bassett, Zoey Denkler and Ali Perry.

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00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 3: The theme music is also by Me and additional music

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00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:08,240
Speaker 3: by Aaron Kaufman.

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00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Jim Nikolay Addison, O'Day, Henry Driver, Lisa Castella,

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00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: Anick Oppenheim, A, Nick Muller and Annette Wolfe, A wkpr,

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00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: Will Pearson, Nicki Etoor, Morgan Lavoy and Mangesh had Tickadore