1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Welcome back 5 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,319 Speaker 1: to the show. My name is Nuel, my name is 6 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: Matt had with a stare off. Just as to who 7 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: is gonna start? I really should have said, they call 8 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: me Matt. Ben is in a location far away, and 9 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: yet we can still feel his ever present influence because 10 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: it's ever present. That's his very nature, that's correct, omnip present. 11 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: He sort of hangs above us like some sort of 12 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: cosmic cloud. Again, his presence is known. We are here 13 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: with special guest producer Seth. He's out there, Seth Aurie. 14 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: He's doing his thing. Wait, I'm looking at him and 15 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: I'm seeing hands moving. I can't tell what it is, 16 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: but it looks intricate and awesome. Wow. Can we give 17 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: m a nickname? Seth Death, Seth Medal, Seth Medal, Yeah, 18 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 1: you got it, that's Seth Medal, Seth Super producer Johnson. 19 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: Is that okay? We allowed to hold your last name 20 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: on the show? Alright? Cool? He said, it's fine. Seth 21 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: Medal superproducer Johnson. That is your new title, and it 22 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: will be forever more. Hey, we're gonna do a quick 23 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: check in you guys, because something extremely exciting is coming 24 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 1: to us in the future, probably not next year. Probably 25 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: Matrix the Fourth is happening now. Let's cause that the 26 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 1: working title. Yeah, Matrix the fourth is that like a 27 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: Highlander kind of situation? Yeah? There can only be four? Yeah, well, 28 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: I mean, don't a lot of people discount two and three? 29 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: Can't we just wipe the slate and make this too? Oh? 30 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: How I wish we could knowll Are you one of 31 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: those naysayers of two and three? I'm not a naysayer 32 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: so much as a close close. You're right, it's closed 33 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: your eyes and like pretended didn't happen, gotcha? Not necessarily 34 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 1: because there are there are highlights, I should say, in 35 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: all three films. But I remember the guy on all 36 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: the TVs, the kind of Wizard of Oz character. Yeah, 37 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: what was his name? The key Master, No, the key masters, 38 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:25,679 Speaker 1: the commissioner, the commissioner, No, the architect, architect. That was 39 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: I was close. It was an official title of some sort. 40 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: But you guys just coming officially. We're gonna get more Neo, 41 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: more Trinity, more everything, directed by Alone Washowski. Yeah, just Lana, 42 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: That's okay. You think that's gonna be all right? Who knows? 43 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: I have a theory, it's not. It's very obvious theory. 44 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 1: But you know, Kiano is like it's the key on 45 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: aance right now. He is on fire, um, blowing up 46 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: the world with all these John Wick movies, doing his 47 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: own stunts, you know, just running around shooting stuff, blowing 48 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: things up all him. Uh, and they're just like, you 49 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: know what, people need another Matrix. That's right, Well, you 50 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: know those move these are such an interesting um comment 51 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: on society, right It's it's very much that science fiction, 52 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: uh commentary of the future thing. So I'm interested to 53 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: see how it's manipulated or changed in some way. I 54 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: think I'm not as big of a Matrix head as 55 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: you are, but I will say I think it's a 56 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: very important film because it did a really good job 57 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: of sort of pushing more heady science fiction, like Philip K. 58 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 1: Dick kind of stuff into the forefront of you know, culture, 59 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: and so I will forever be grateful for that. I 60 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: think if it wasn't for the Matrix, who wouldn't have 61 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: gotten things like Scanner Darkly and some maybe weirder franchises 62 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: that wouldn't have happened. I'm I'm having a hard time 63 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: identifying any others. Can you think of any uh forebears? No, 64 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: not necessarily. All I know is that it forebears can before, Yeah, forebears. 65 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: You can say a lot of those are both the 66 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: same word. What's the word for the thing that comes 67 00:03:55,160 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: after the the cascade of science fiction? Hard science fiction? Right, 68 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: that's kind of what you're talking about. But the Matrix 69 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: really did popularize this kind of more heavy science fiction. 70 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: You're right, um, and and thank you for that. Wachowskis 71 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: and uh NEOs and trinities and more pieces. What are 72 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: we doing today when I'm talking, We're not doing a 73 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 1: Matrix episode. We're not talking about that today. We are 74 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 1: officially exploring music, music because the music soundtrack, thinking about 75 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 1: the soundtrack of the Matrix. But anyway, okay, we'll get 76 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: away from that. How music can affect us both individually 77 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: and collectively. And you know, the three of us here today, 78 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: both you and Seth and I have a very personal 79 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: connection to music. And I thought we would start maybe 80 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: by talking about that. How has music affected you know? 81 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,559 Speaker 1: I mean I grew up playing violin and I sang 82 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: in the church choir and all that stuff, and uh 83 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: started kind of kind of like gave up violin in 84 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 1: favor of the electric guitar and started being in rock bands. 85 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: Um started doing early on kind of some metally type 86 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: stuff actually, and then got more into like Smashing Pumpkins 87 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: and indie rock, and then gradually graduated more towards like 88 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: pavement that kind of that kind of stuff. But I 89 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: got definitely got my start in much heavier music for sure. 90 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: Nice see for me, I grew up playing drums in 91 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 1: a praise band at a church, and that was all 92 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: music was for me for years and years and years. 93 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 1: And the connection that music had to religion was so 94 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: uh so close. The two were so intertwined that it 95 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 1: was difficult for me to even explore music outside of 96 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: that because I was kind of stuck in this one 97 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: place for so long, at least mentally. But you know, 98 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: as your journey, I also found my way towards lots 99 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 1: of other genres and ended up really enjoying some of 100 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: the heavier things in life, including well really classical heavy metal. 101 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: I really loved it. When I say classical heavy metal, 102 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: I mean some of the classics from the sixties, seventies, eighties. 103 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 1: I was really enjoying learning about Sabbath. Like some Sabbath, 104 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: I very much did so. Again, today we're talking about music. 105 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: We're talking about how powerful and highly connective music can 106 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: be and the act of writing it performing it is 107 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: a conduit between human beings people working together to create music, 108 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: and with that creation there is thought and intention sometimes 109 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 1: behind the actual material. The act of listening to music 110 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: connects people to those creators, and it's all this kind 111 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,039 Speaker 1: of giant web of interconnectedness of sharing and ideas. It 112 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: almost can become its own kind of I don't know, 113 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 1: religion might be a strong word, but it's definitely a 114 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 1: way of identifying with lots of different people that share 115 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: the same uh either values are the same kind of 116 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: aesthetics that you do know, You're absolutely right. Listening to 117 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: music connects us the listener right to those those people 118 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:55,359 Speaker 1: who are creating it, to the you know, the instrument 119 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: choices that they're making, the words that they're saying. In 120 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: a lot of ways, it can also connect us to 121 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 1: ourselves because music can help unlock or maybe enhance the 122 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: way that we're really feeling, the way you know what 123 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: we're really thinking, um stuff that we're not allowing out 124 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: into the world openly. A lot of times music is 125 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: that way to kind of have us connect back to ourselves, 126 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: and you know, a lot of us get to choose 127 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: the music that we hear. Of course, that isn't true 128 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: for all people in all situations, but a lot of 129 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: us get to decide which vibrations and concepts stimulate our 130 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: brains on a regular basis. Think about it, are I 131 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: heart and Pandora stations or Spotify and YouTube playlists and 132 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: these choices that we're making, they're all influenced by a 133 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: ton of factors, including our location in the world, our background, 134 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: you know, how we grew up, the prevailing culture or 135 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: wherever that is, and almost an infinite number of other 136 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: circumstances that lead to what we're listening to at any 137 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: given moment, especially regularly, and it really can become its 138 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: own kind of micro cosmic cultural experience. So many times 139 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: over the year, specific cultural movements within music have been 140 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: associated with violence with a particular eliciting in particular response, 141 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: or at least sometimes they're lumped in with that, here 142 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: are some examples across the world, from l A to 143 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: Paris to New York City, UM to Moscow, there have 144 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: been several genres of hip hop that have lyrically addressed 145 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: the violent circumstances facing communities and individuals. Then if you 146 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: travel down to Mexico, Central America, you'll encounter these things 147 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: that are called narco corridos or drug ballads, and in 148 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: these there are explorations of people living on the other 149 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: side of the law, generally within the realm of the 150 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: drug trade. Now today's episode, again those are just two examples. 151 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 1: There's there's been violence associated with music across space and time. 152 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: But in today's episode, we're heading over to northern Europe 153 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: and we're going to check out a place that's collectively 154 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: known as Scandinavia, several different countries that are beautiful, uh 155 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: sometimes frigid it just in temperature. Uh buddy, Again, you know, 156 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: you can't let yourself be influenced by just what you 157 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: see on television in the way a place like Norway 158 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: is shown, um, because that is not everything within that country. 159 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: There are all kinds. There's so much diversity that occurs 160 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: over there, both natural and human made. Yeah, despite what 161 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 1: you might see depicted and mass media kind of lazy 162 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: depictions of this region as being one particular thing. And 163 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: today we're exploring some strange controversies, the conspiracies surrounding the 164 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:39,599 Speaker 1: Scandinavian metal scene, the spates of church burnings, and allegations 165 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: of Satanism. That's right, Satanism. Oh, every time we cover 166 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: anything that touches on this, I don't know, there's an 167 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,199 Speaker 1: error about the episode just coming into the studio is 168 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: in here earlier when Seth came in, and uh, I 169 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: was almost not startled, but I was in my own 170 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: world here researching this stuff alone, and uh, speak yourself 171 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: not necessarily spooks, but it's um, it feels like I'm 172 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: doing something wrong, if that makes sense, just by even 173 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 1: studying a word like Satanism. Well, I think a lot 174 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: of that might have to do with your background. I 175 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: think I think it's all connected a very Christian upbringing, 176 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: and this is sort of like off limit stuff because 177 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, I mean, there's different 178 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: flavors of Satanism, Right, there's you know, legitimate pagan kind 179 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 1: of devil worship, and then there's Satanism as more of 180 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: a form of protest or like a political movement. Right. Um, 181 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: so let's just before we get into too much of that, 182 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 1: let's first ask the quote we would give the facts, right, 183 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 1: here are the facts. What is metal? Oh? Metal like? Uh? 184 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: The genre? Oh boy? Now let's talk about the material. Okay. 185 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: So metal is pretty tough to define. There are a 186 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: lot of reasons for that. Music critics over the years 187 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: and historians. We try, we as in humans, try very 188 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:06,319 Speaker 1: hard to categorize things like this, and specifically music, because 189 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: we have industries like the radio industry that in the 190 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: you know, record industry, that want to put things into 191 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: categories so that you can sell them and you can 192 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: package them and you can talk about them in a 193 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 1: certain way. Metal is one of those things that is, 194 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: it's so spread out in what could be considered metal 195 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: types of metal. But there are a few people who 196 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: have gone through and said, Okay, this is how we 197 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: are going to define this genre. It's pretty cool. The 198 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: term heavy metal, I don't even know. This was first 199 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: used in a way to describe music in the sixties 200 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: and the song Born to Be Worm. It's so weird 201 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 1: to me that that was considered metal by stepping Wolf, 202 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: the name of the band sounds more metal than the 203 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: actual song. Like, to me, that just sounds like old 204 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: school rock and roll kind of, you know, but there's 205 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: a lyric specifically in that song that says heavy metal thunder. 206 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: Yeah that's according to you, right, we're big fans. We 207 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: don't have to think we're okay. And also according to 208 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: Chad Bauer, the gentleman who was talking about Born to 209 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: Be Wild, he notes that quote, most consider groups like 210 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 1: Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin in Deep Purple to be the 211 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: first heavy metal bands. I can totally get behind that, 212 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: because I mean, all of those bands take the tradition 213 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: of kind of blues and like bar chords, but they 214 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: kind of add a little chug to it and have 215 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: these riffs that sort of have this like very shared 216 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: astatic led Zeppelin to me, I would I would argue 217 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: is maybe less metal than Deep Purple and Black Sabbath. 218 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: Let's Zeppelin is a little more like really leaning on 219 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: the blues side of it, a little bit heavier and 220 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: almost making their own kind of sub genre. But you know, 221 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: these are the experts, so who are we to judge 222 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: from there? The concept evolved and branched off into an 223 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 1: absurd number of sub genres and genres related to the sound. 224 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: While associated with or influenced by metal, you couldn't really 225 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:10,319 Speaker 1: describe them in that specific way. Today, for a fantastic 226 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: look at the history of metal and it's various genres, 227 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: we highly recommend checking out this site from m I T. Yeah, 228 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 1: m I T UM in Boston. Uh, and that was 229 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,559 Speaker 1: metal dot m I T dot e d u um. 230 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 1: It gives you a really cool kind of like what 231 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: do you say, like an interconnected kind of like chart 232 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,559 Speaker 1: that tracks the the evolution of metal. Right. It's awesome. 233 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: It's heavy metal. It's m I T Heavy Metal one 234 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,319 Speaker 1: oh one, and it says shattering ear drums since two 235 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,719 Speaker 1: thousand and six. And if you read through this, it's fantastic. 236 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,079 Speaker 1: It gets into so many details. If you really wanna, 237 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: you know, learn about that, there's gotta be a music 238 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: show out there that you can listen to that's gonna 239 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: go over all this stuff, or just go to this 240 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:55,079 Speaker 1: website because uh, it's a fantastic read. Today, we're just 241 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna drill down a little bit further, 242 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: just into one specific genre of metal. Again. We talked 243 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 1: about Scandinavian black metal. And uh, that's really where we're 244 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: gonna remain for the rest of the episode. So go 245 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 1: learn about metal if you wish, come back, and then 246 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: we'll continue. Will be right here. See I told you 247 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: we were here the whole time. We never really leave. Hey, Seth, 248 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: just checking in. How how how are you feeling about 249 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: our discussion to medal thus far? Do you want to 250 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: bring up the tri tone or the Devil's integer, the 251 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: Devil's chord change. I forget exactly what it's called. This 252 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: like the flat you guys, familiar flatted fifth sounds pretty evil? 253 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: Well it again it is. It does sound evil, and 254 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: it was it was coined the I think it was 255 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: the Devil's I can't remember exactly. I didn't actually write 256 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: this down. This is me pulling from old, old, old 257 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: knowledge that's deep in my head somewhere. Um. It's a 258 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: musical interval, let's see, composed of three adjacent whole tones. 259 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: I don't really know what that means. I just know 260 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: that one of them is a flatted fifth of the three. 261 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: Is this actually? Is this contained in metal music? Yeah? 262 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: Black Sabbath in particular. If you go to that m 263 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: I t site we were talking about. Uh, it talks 264 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: about them using this to great effect because it's it 265 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: almost feels like a note that shouldn't be there. If 266 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: you're writing a traditional song with with chord changes that 267 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: are in the same key or something, this flatted fifth 268 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: is almost its eerie almost or it throws you off 269 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: as sort of like the blue note and and blues 270 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: or jazz. It's the thing that makes it kind of sad. 271 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: This is the thing that makes it kind of evil, 272 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: makes it metal. Throwing up my horns when I say that, 273 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: um so yeah, uh, making no mistake though. What we're 274 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: talking about is Scandinavia, which is ground zero for heavy 275 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: metal um in the Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Built tweeted 276 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: quote Finland and Sweden seems to be the global leaders 277 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: in metal bands UM along with the maps sourced from 278 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: c i A to gov and metal archives dot com 279 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: showing just how many metal bands originate in Sweden, Finland 280 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: and Norway. This is very important to remember for later 281 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: and people have actually studied Swedish and Finnish in an 282 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: attempt to better understand some of their favorite metal bands. 283 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, very much so. And you guys, we need 284 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: to take a quick break and then we'll get right 285 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: back in and keep this rabbit hole going. And we're 286 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: back talking the Scandinavian black metal. Now, according to the 287 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: metal blog Invisible Oranges, it sounds sounds interesting, right, it's 288 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: it's by Cosmo Lee. The popularity of metal in any 289 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: given region can be arguably reducible to a few factors. Now, 290 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: there's a researcher that was consulted here named Donald McGuire, 291 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: and he wrote a paper called Determinants of the Production 292 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: of Heavy Metal Music. Now, this guy he went. He 293 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: explored fifty five different factors and found that the number 294 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: of heavy metal that is produced in any given area 295 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: depends on seven things. Are you ready for these? And 296 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:12,719 Speaker 1: steth I'm gonna be looking to you to see if 297 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: you agree with any of these, because it's it doesn't 298 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,239 Speaker 1: seem real to me, But there's some sand to this. 299 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 1: Number one the percentage of the population that is Catholic. 300 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: The percentage of the population with zero religion. Okay, so 301 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: those are two interesting, possibly opposing things. Number three the 302 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: latitude of the country, whether the country has a Scandinavian 303 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: legal history. Number four the number of years that that 304 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: country was under Marxist rule, and the number of the 305 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: population that are males between the ages of fifteen and 306 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: twenty four, and finally the number of concert halls per 307 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: one million persons. So this isn't a perfect system by 308 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: any stretch of imagination, but attracts with what we know 309 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:58,440 Speaker 1: about Scandinavian history, demographics, and culture. And you can read 310 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 1: the full analysis over there Invisible Orangees as well as 311 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 1: the paper published in Metal Music Studies. Really interesting, right, 312 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: So if we break some of this stuff down, if 313 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 1: you have a percentage of a population that identifies at 314 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: least as Catholic, then another significant portion of a population 315 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: that identifies as having no religion, you can see how 316 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: there could be some people at odds there. When you 317 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: throw in the latitude of the country. What at least, 318 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: this is what I'm inferring, is that you're bringing in 319 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: how warm generally and how humid the climate is in 320 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: any given country. And also you know, depending on the 321 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: elevation in in the area where where people are located. 322 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: I wonder of elevation. I wonder if you should have 323 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 1: put elevation in there somewhere that would have been fascinating. 324 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: But you know, then the other the other ideas of 325 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: just literally saying does it have a Scandinavian legal history? Fascinating? Uh, 326 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: and then the whole Marxist rule thing. I don't know, 327 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: I want to learn more about that, so I'm gonna 328 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: go back and read some more about that later. But 329 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: for now, let's just keep going on here, because we've 330 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,880 Speaker 1: we've pretty much established what metal is a little bit 331 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 1: at least um, and we also know that metal itself, 332 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: several versions of it, is supremely popular within the Scandinavian 333 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: countries that we we mentioned above, you know, Sweden, Finland, Norway. 334 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: Yet in the States, um, the US and abroad, it's 335 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 1: always kind of had a bit of a controversial um image, right. 336 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: So during the Great the Satanic Panic in the US, 337 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: heavy metal music, along with dungeons and dragons were both 338 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 1: sided as contributing factors and everything from violent assaults like 339 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:40,120 Speaker 1: the um the murders, the child murders at robin Hood Hill. 340 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,880 Speaker 1: Those guys were all metal fans and they were sort 341 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: of railroaded because of that that fact alone, and you know, 342 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: was implied that because they listened to heavy metal music, 343 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 1: they were participating in some sort of satanic rituals which 344 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: brings us to another factor, the rise of devil worshiping, 345 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: or the perceived rise of devil worshiping during that period, 346 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 1: and property damage and more. And it's it's crazy there 347 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 1: because things range from annoyances like property damage and riff 348 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,919 Speaker 1: raff coming around here listening their heavy metal music and 349 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: messing up my garbage cans to literally murder. That's that's 350 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: at least the perceived um stuff going on here from 351 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: portions of the US population. And just to add to 352 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: all that stuff, anything culturally that becomes a little bit 353 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:31,159 Speaker 1: popular that is contrary to some of the what I 354 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: guess what the powers that be would wish the established 355 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: culture would be that I don't know if that even 356 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: tracks is making sense to anyone listening out there. But 357 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: anytime something is a little outside of the regular thing, 358 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: especially when it comes to religions in or the popular 359 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,680 Speaker 1: religions and established area, it's uh, it can be viewed. 360 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: I think that it's seen as anti establishment and a 361 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: lot of times these movements are meant specifically to be 362 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: an establishment or or anti norm I guess. Now. In Scandinavia, 363 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 1: particularly in Norway, there is a genre that we've kind 364 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 1: of mentioned here called black Metal, and this in particular 365 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: was cited as the cause of an intense anti Christian 366 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:25,120 Speaker 1: terrorist campaign. That's right, an anti Christian terrorism campaign, and 367 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: black Metal was cited as being a part of a 368 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: conspiracy to protest the country's dominant religion through the act 369 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 1: of literally burning down the most sacred sites of people's 370 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: faith in Norway churches. Now here's a big question was 371 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:48,679 Speaker 1: this true? Was black Metal truly to blame for this 372 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: conspiracy to burn down churches across Norway. Um, we're going 373 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 1: to explore that, and we're going to talk about reasons 374 00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: that it may have just been a little bit of 375 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: proper ganda at the hands of media in the vicinity 376 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: in Norway to uh to fight back against some anti 377 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: establishment movements. But we're gonna find out. So let's move forward. 378 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy right here, right here. I'm 379 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 1: ready for it. I feel like I just set up 380 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 1: all that stuff in as in like we're gonna find out, 381 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: we're gonna do this, We're gonna we're gonna check into it. Well, 382 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 1: guess what, we already researched it. We're in here recording 383 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 1: it right now. And it's absolutely true that black Metal 384 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: itself in some way had to do with this conspiracy 385 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: to burn down churches in Norway. Between no less than 386 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: fifty successful or attempted church burnings were attributed to musicians 387 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: and fans of the black metal scene in Norway. Um 388 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 1: So CNN describes black metal in this way, and this 389 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: is this is very very good description. Black metal is 390 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: a subgenre of heavy metal music that typically takes on 391 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:58,479 Speaker 1: anti Christian, satanic, and paganistic themes. Black metal songs typically 392 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 1: have a fast tempo called blast eats and featuring the 393 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: feature shrieking. I've always refer to them as kind of 394 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: witchy vocals like no, no no, like that yeah and 395 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 1: um also heavily distorted guitars, more so than just like 396 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: your metal zone pedal. You know, any guitarists out there 397 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 1: might remember the boss metal zone classic metal good distortion 398 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: of It's a absolute distortioning wall of distortion, like like static, 399 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,360 Speaker 1: almost like it's Almo. It's bordering on atonal. But then 400 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 1: there are shreddy riffs and lead licks and everything like that. 401 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: UM and unconventional song structure, so lots of weird time signatures, 402 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 1: tempo changes, things like that, and some of the big 403 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: bands in that scene. Um, the term black metal actually 404 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: comes from the British group Venom. It was one of 405 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: the most influential black metal bands, and there were other 406 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:53,199 Speaker 1: acts like Bathy Mayhem, bar Zoom, Immortal Emperor, and my 407 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: personal favorite Gor Groth, whose lead singer plays a big 408 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,159 Speaker 1: part in some of these stories. So it's important to 409 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: note that these acts of church burning or vandalism, property damage, 410 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 1: what have you, they could be actually considered acts of 411 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: domestic terrorism with one unified aim, and that is to 412 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: protest the very existence or you know, the hegemony the 413 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: kind of dominance of Christianity in uh in Scandinavia, a 414 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:25,920 Speaker 1: country that was founded on a pagan or Odinist kind 415 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 1: of set of beliefs and then sort of taken over 416 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: by Christian Christian beliefs, and these churches very much represent 417 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: that hegemony and that kind of you know, um other 418 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: other force that kind of comes in and maybe steers 419 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 1: the history of this part of the world away from 420 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,919 Speaker 1: their more um, you know, kind of the Viking type roots. 421 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: It's interesting to see it as almost cultural vengeance against 422 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: that kind of thing, or you know, taking back the 423 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:57,400 Speaker 1: power of the history in some way. It certainly doesn't 424 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,439 Speaker 1: excuse the acts in any way, but it is interesting 425 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: to see it in that light. So let's jump to 426 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:12,199 Speaker 1: the the documentary Satan Rear Media. Satan Rides the Media, okay, 427 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 1: and in it, prominent members of Norway's black metal scene 428 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: are asked, Satan rear media means in English, Satan rides 429 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: the media. I got it. Yes, that's not a subtitle. Apologies, Yeah, 430 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: I should have specified that. Yeah, yeah, it's we would 431 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: call it here, Nolan, I would call it Satan rides 432 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 1: of the media. Um. So they take the Norway's black 433 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: metal scene. They asked a bunch of people about these 434 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: instances of church arson, and inside it there's a guitarist 435 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: named yourn Ing Toumbsberg and he was convicted for um 436 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: a church arson and he answers or at least considers 437 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 1: this question by saying, quote, the reason behind burning Assane 438 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 1: Church was that Norway is always so moral Christian morals, 439 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: rules and regulations are always religious. The more Christian, the 440 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 1: more you hate it. Do you understand that Norway should 441 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,439 Speaker 1: not be Christian like as in you understand who's speaking 442 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: to you? Understand that Nora should not be Christian? And 443 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 1: then he says, and that is the reason for burning 444 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: a sane church. It's a s a n e church. 445 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: The point is very symbolic really, so it kind of 446 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: gets to what we're talking about. It's a reaction to 447 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: something that they view as improper. So this other fellow 448 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 1: named Varg Vikerns, who has imprisoned for charges including the 449 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: murder of a fellow black metal musician named Eronymous. Uronymous 450 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 1: was in a band called Mayhem, and Vickerns was in 451 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,439 Speaker 1: a band called bar Zoom. He was also imprisoned for 452 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: the charges of burning down three churches and the attempted 453 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: arson of a fourth. So um, this is how he 454 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 1: responds to this notion of what Christianity means to him 455 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 1: as a native Norwegian quote, the church has behaved so disgracefully, 456 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 1: basically and cruelly and away. It's incredible when they talk 457 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: about Satanism. When someone burns a church, they ought to 458 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 1: look to themselves and remember all the sacred places they 459 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 1: have burnt, they being the Christians, uh, and ruins on 460 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: top of which they have built their churches. Wow. Again, 461 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 1: that whole thing just feels like metal lyrics. They have 462 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: a point there, right when you think about the crusades, 463 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: you think, you think about the things that the most 464 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: popular religions in the world have done as a large group. 465 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 1: Certainly isn't to vilify any of the individuals, right, but 466 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: as institutions, over time, for hundreds and hundreds of years, 467 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: many of them have done some fairly horrific things. So um, 468 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 1: if you if you look to other documentaries and interviews, 469 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: you'll hear black metal musicians offer similar things. As a 470 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:54,719 Speaker 1: gentleman named call g A a h L. His real 471 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: name is Christian Ivan Espital. He's the guy that's in 472 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: gore Graph, that's the that's the dude, and in Metal 473 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: a Headbanger's Journey. Uh. This dude unapologetically expresses his supportive 474 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: church burnings, and it's kind of unsettling because he also 475 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 1: expresses his desire to see more church burnings. Let's just 476 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,880 Speaker 1: burn them all. And here's his quote. He says, church 477 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 1: burnings and all of these things are of course things 478 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: that I support one and it should have been done 479 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: much more and will be done much more in the future. 480 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: We have to remove every trace from what Christianity and 481 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: the Semitic roots have to offer this world. Satanism is 482 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 1: freedom for the individual to grow and to become superman. 483 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: Every man who is born to be king becomes king. 484 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: Every man who is born to be a slave doesn't 485 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: know satan. Um, you kind of get a pretty serious 486 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: sense that he is literally anti Semitic because he's talking 487 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: about how the Semitic roots, uh in you know, religion 488 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: and culture are inherently a bad thing. And he's kind 489 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: of espousing some like almost niche in kind of like 490 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: this same things that Hitler would have talked about as 491 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: far as like, you know, becoming the superman. And there 492 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 1: is very much a kind of aryan uh flair to 493 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: what he's saying. Yeah. Well, and and here in you know, 494 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: we've had several examples here at this point of people 495 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: either supporting or at least lending a tiny bit of 496 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: support to these church burnings that were occurring in Norway, 497 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: in in in Scandinavia. And it's easy to maybe think, oh, well, 498 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: then everybody in the black metal scene has this view 499 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: the black metal as a genre, as a music and 500 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: as a culture means that it's anti all of this 501 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: stuff in church burnings. They would view church burnings as 502 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: a good thing. But um, you have to remember that 503 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: doesn't mean just because we have three or four doesn't 504 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: mean that the whole thing is monolithic. It doesn't mean 505 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: that all the musicians and fans support this practice, but 506 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: it is, you know, something in in the wheelhouse of 507 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: what we were wanting to explore when we set out 508 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: to do this episode, which is, can music itself or 509 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: the the culture surrounding and music influence us and influence 510 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 1: our actions? And when I say us, I mean everybody. 511 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: Anybody could it? And at least it appears in this 512 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: way that the the shared outlook or in motivation for 513 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: a lot of this type of music does seem to 514 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: be steering at least quite a few of the people 515 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: involved in it in a certain direction. But again, if 516 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: you tried to say all of all of black metal 517 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: is doing this at all times, it would be like 518 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: saying all all fans of hip hop or whatever, anyone 519 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: who's ever attempted to freestyle of verse are on board 520 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: with drive by shootings, which is like the one of 521 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 1: the stupid stupidest things you could say. And I feel 522 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: dumber for even mentioning it. Don't feel that way, Matt, 523 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 1: but it needed to be said. It's it's an equivalence yea. 524 00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: And furthermore, it seems that the supporters of church bringings 525 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: are themselves not a unite in front in the first place. 526 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 1: Some folks like var Vicarns seemed to argue in favor 527 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: of what they see as a culture war, and his 528 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: blog post, Vicarns argues that the conflict between pre Christian 529 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: Norway and modern Christianity is similar to the fear and 530 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: conflict between some modern Europeans and Islamic culture. Should also 531 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: be noted that the core of vicarns beliefs are rooted 532 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: in racial ideology, which is also seems to very much 533 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: be the case for Gall. Yeah, you definitely see the 534 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 1: echoes there. Now, there are others involved with this stuff 535 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: who are not a part of the black metal scene, 536 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: um loan actors outside of Norway, who may simply be disaffected, 537 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: isolated people. Overwhelmingly the people who took part in this 538 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: were young men, and perhaps they were just seeking an 539 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 1: outlet for some inner rage, some personal conflict, some conflict 540 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:54,719 Speaker 1: that they see as a wider thing. But it doesn't 541 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: necessarily have anything to do with what we've been speaking 542 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: about prior to this. So it follows then that the 543 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: original waves of church burnings were based on this kind 544 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: of religious fanaticism, uh, the idea that pre existing Norse 545 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: mythological beliefs were the true creed of the region, and 546 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: that Christianity had to be uprooted um and driven from 547 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 1: the land an entire and its entirety. So the association 548 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 1: with a Christian Satan therefore doesn't make a whole lot 549 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: of sense in that context. Right. Why would a religious 550 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: fanatic commit an act of violence in the name of 551 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: the supernatural being that his or her actual religion doesn't 552 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: even acknowledge. That is pretty weird, right, We were talking 553 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: about that a little bit off, Mike. Just how in 554 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: order to truly believe in some kind of religious satanism 555 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: you would have to essentially take the or be a 556 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: Christian but just an anti christian um rather than have 557 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: another view. It's really strange. So denying the idea of 558 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: Christianity would also make it where you would have to 559 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: deny the existence of Christian Satan or a lucifer. So 560 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: there'll be no reason whatsoever in this frame of thought 561 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: for Satan to exist, much less to be supported by 562 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 1: physical acts of violence. Um. Fun fact, how much of 563 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: a cultural supremacist is Vickarns Well, he actually refers to 564 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: Christianity as a quote immigrant religion. Um, how racist is he? 565 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: He constantly complains that the character based on him in 566 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: the fictional film Lords of Chaos is a quote fat jew. Uh, 567 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: this guy is is kind of hot garbage person. Uh. 568 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: That is unfortunate that that person has those beliefs and 569 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 1: says those things. Um, okay, so we're gonna we're gonna 570 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:34,959 Speaker 1: take another quick word from our sponsor, and then we're 571 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: gonna come back with our conclusions and what we've found here. 572 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: We're back. So the question remains how much of the 573 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: Satanism that's extolled in Black Metal, at least at the 574 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,479 Speaker 1: time that the church burnings were happening, was genuine, how 575 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 1: much of it was ideological, or how much of it 576 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: was true theistic satan him that we've talked about before 577 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 1: on the show, and how much it was more or 578 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: less window dressing or pr meant to provoke and garner attention, 579 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 1: because remember, these are musicians, they have bands, they have 580 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 1: obligations a lot of times to sell a certain number 581 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,439 Speaker 1: of records, and you need to get your name out there. 582 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: This is certainly one way to do it, but you 583 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 1: could also wind up in jail, which would probably be 584 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 1: a bad call. But we do know that there were 585 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: true believers in the Scandinavian black metal scene. Uronymous, this 586 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 1: guy that we've talked talked about earlier. He was often 587 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: credited as one of the primary founders of the actual 588 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 1: Satanic movement. He described himself as a theistic Satanist exactly 589 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: in an interview by Asa La fin Para for Kill 590 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:49,359 Speaker 1: Yourself magazine charmingly titled magazine, Euronymous put his beliefs in 591 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: this way, uh quote. I believe in a horned devil, 592 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,600 Speaker 1: a personified Satan. In my opinion, all the other forms 593 00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: of Satanism are bullet I hate that some people think 594 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 1: up idiotic ways of making eternal peace in the world 595 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: and dare to call it Satanism like so many do. 596 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,280 Speaker 1: Satanism comes from religious Christianity, and therefore it shall stay. 597 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 1: I'm a religious person and I will fight those who 598 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 1: misuse his name. People are not supposed to believe in 599 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 1: themselves and be individuals, be individualists. Rather, they are supposed 600 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,919 Speaker 1: to obey, to be the slaves of religion. I think 601 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 1: he's being tongue in cheek here, don't I know, it 602 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 1: seems like he's really smart, alec. It seems like so 603 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: much of it is just a commentary, it's it's cultural commentary. 604 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: But again, in a way, these are these are artists, right, 605 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 1: These are people who are massively creative when they when 606 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: they make music, when they you know, decide what their 607 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: bands gonna look like, what the stage is going to 608 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 1: be like, what the album cover is gonna look like. 609 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,839 Speaker 1: It certainly isn't hard to imagine that there's also some 610 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 1: creativity happening here when you're speaking with the magazine such 611 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,479 Speaker 1: as this. But you know, to this day, long after 612 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 1: Uronymous is murder, remember this was a whole other thing 613 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 1: by varg Vicarns. Yeah, people people argue about how much 614 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: of his image Uronymous, how much of it was sincere, 615 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,800 Speaker 1: and how much of it was truly attention seeking or 616 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 1: you know, posturing or again kind of and an act 617 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: on purpose to be a part of the stage show 618 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,320 Speaker 1: and a part of the version of himself that exists 619 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: within his music. And yet none of this stuff, none 620 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,800 Speaker 1: of these realizations are gonna unburn any churches. Um So 621 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: there it is, there was, in fact, an active conspiracy 622 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: to burn churches in Norway in the nineteen nineties. But 623 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,880 Speaker 1: however coordinative these attacks might have seemed to outsiders, the 624 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 1: reality is they they were motivated by a number of different, 625 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,919 Speaker 1: at times completely contradictory reasons, right, Yeah, you're talking about 626 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: religious fanaticism led some people to set fire, um, others 627 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 1: appeared to be attention seeking. They they seem to be 628 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: displaying provocative behavior on purpose for a different reason. Yes, 629 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,839 Speaker 1: some acceptance seeking are proving themselves to be part of 630 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 1: a group of isolated loaners, which is really interesting too, 631 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 1: like I'm part of this group of isolated people. Well 632 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 1: it's a counterintuitive right yeah, but but again it it 633 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: makes sense in another way. And you know they're also 634 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:26,920 Speaker 1: cultural and ideological and sometimes racial supremacists that we're in 635 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: play there, as we saw at the end. But as 636 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 1: for a true you know, shadow of Satanism that's looming 637 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,440 Speaker 1: over Scandinavia, we still have to ask ourselves in the 638 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,319 Speaker 1: end how much was true Satanism on the part of 639 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 1: the individuals involved. There were some, but we can't prove 640 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 1: much more than that. How much of this whole thing 641 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: was influenced by the media coverage by a bit of hysteria. 642 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,479 Speaker 1: I mean, there are a lot of churches burning around 643 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: in a fairly short period of time. That could be 644 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: pretty scary, and it would also cause people to turn 645 00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,720 Speaker 1: on their t v s and watch a news station 646 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: and buy newspapers. Yeah, and how many of these incidents 647 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,839 Speaker 1: were just attempts to get attention? Um. More than twenty 648 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 1: years later, these questions kind of still remain, and I 649 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,719 Speaker 1: don't know how we're truly going to get rid of 650 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 1: all of them, but we do know there's more to 651 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,320 Speaker 1: look at here, and perhaps we'll continue down this rabbit 652 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,560 Speaker 1: hole a little bit, you know, at a later date, 653 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 1: But for now, we're gonna leave it. Leave it at that. 654 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: Churches were burned, for sure, and enough people within the 655 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:32,920 Speaker 1: black middle scene in Norway and the rest of Scandinavia, 656 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,840 Speaker 1: enough people seem to be in on it and happy 657 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 1: about it, Yeah, willing to talk about it. There's a 658 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,640 Speaker 1: really interesting documentary called Before the Light Takes Us that 659 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,600 Speaker 1: is about all of this stuff, UM, really interesting. UM 660 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 1: goes into great detail about the feud between bar Zoom 661 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 1: and Mayhem and that murder and how that kind of 662 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,399 Speaker 1: fed into this scene and a lot of the kind 663 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:57,719 Speaker 1: of I don't know, for lack of a better term, 664 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 1: identity politics behind this stuff, because it was these kind 665 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 1: of factions about like who could be more evil and who, 666 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,879 Speaker 1: you know, was more a true believer. But even within that, 667 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 1: there is a lot of posturing. And I mean, you know, 668 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:11,919 Speaker 1: these we haven't even talked about this. These these black 669 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,880 Speaker 1: metal artists, they wear corpse paint and I have a 670 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,400 Speaker 1: very which is white makeup and you know, kind of 671 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,799 Speaker 1: running black like liners around their eyes, sort of looking 672 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: almost like King Diamond that that the artist or whatever, 673 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: or like staying the wrestler kind of. I have a 674 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,799 Speaker 1: very distinct memory of a really great article because a 675 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: lot of this happened when I was a kid who 676 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 1: was in Spin magazine and interviewed a handful of like 677 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:38,280 Speaker 1: kind of like big figures in the Scandinavian black metal scene. 678 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,840 Speaker 1: And I remember one of them like had a decaying 679 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 1: crow that he kept in a bag and every time 680 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 1: he would like perform, he would like sniff the decaying 681 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:49,919 Speaker 1: crow in the bag so that he had the sell 682 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,960 Speaker 1: the smell of death in his nostrils. So I mean, 683 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,760 Speaker 1: there's definitely, uh a drive among some of these folks 684 00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,759 Speaker 1: to be very authentic and to absolutely don't know, for 685 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,359 Speaker 1: lack of a better term, practice what they preached, and 686 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 1: some of that involved burning down churches. Yeah, and sniff 687 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,719 Speaker 1: and crows. That is just that's a way to win 688 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: me over if you ever in my presence, just sniff 689 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: a decay and crow all know. Hey, we're on the 690 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,799 Speaker 1: same page, Bunny, Hey, for sure. Are you on the 691 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:18,880 Speaker 1: same page with us about this topic? What are your 692 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 1: thoughts on black metal? What's your favorite genre of music? 693 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: What's your favorite subgenre of metal? Yeah? And how has 694 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,359 Speaker 1: music influenced your life over the years. Do you think 695 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 1: music is powerful enough to make people take actions and 696 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,799 Speaker 1: do things? Are there other examples of that occurring in 697 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:39,400 Speaker 1: the past? Or is that something that media and you know, 698 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,480 Speaker 1: in our attempt to categorize and make sense of things. 699 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:44,359 Speaker 1: Is that something we came up with on our own. 700 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:49,040 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe music can't actually make us do anything, or 701 00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 1: video games or movies or TV or culture. Maybe that's 702 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,640 Speaker 1: all part of something bigger the circumstances that we find 703 00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: ourselves in. You can connect with us on our Facebook group. 704 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,120 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. You have to do is 705 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 1: name me Matt or ben Um or you know, just 706 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 1: say something clever and well we'll let you in for sure. 707 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,319 Speaker 1: What was it? What was it? What's uh? It was 708 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:18,360 Speaker 1: special guest super producer, No special, Seth Seth Medal Seth 709 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 1: Metal super producer Johnson. Yeah, I think that was it. 710 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: We can review the tapes, okay, because there's a record 711 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 1: of this. Um. If you don't want to do that, 712 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,480 Speaker 1: you can hit us up on Instagram or regular old 713 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 1: Facebook where we are conspiracy stuff or Conspiracy Stuff show. 714 00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,000 Speaker 1: Isn't that right? Is it on Instagram's Conspiracy Stuff show? Correct? 715 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: What's your what's your insta? Oh? You can find my 716 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,600 Speaker 1: instat How now, Noel Brown? Um, you know it's just 717 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,800 Speaker 1: me doing farting around doing stuff sniff and dead crows 718 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:47,840 Speaker 1: and being adorable and being adorable. Thanks, but I appreciate that. 719 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,279 Speaker 1: If you don't want to do any of that internet stuff, UM, 720 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,759 Speaker 1: you can give us a call on our hotline which 721 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: we have which is one eight three three st d 722 00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,640 Speaker 1: w y t K And if none of that floats 723 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,239 Speaker 1: your boat, you can send us. Oh wait, no, here's 724 00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 1: another thing you should do. UM. You should check out 725 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,719 Speaker 1: Movie Crash, which is a show that I'm on occasionally 726 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:10,440 Speaker 1: and Matt was just on discussing the original Matrix. That's right, yeah, 727 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,080 Speaker 1: I talk man, it was so much fun. I am 728 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:14,719 Speaker 1: so jealous that you get to hang out with Chuck 729 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,919 Speaker 1: in a room alone several times a week and say, 730 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:22,319 Speaker 1: you make it sound very, very sinister. A windowless room 731 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,279 Speaker 1: alone with Chuck Bryant. It's similar to the joy I 732 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,040 Speaker 1: get from hanging out with you and Ben in a 733 00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:31,440 Speaker 1: darkened room alone, albeit with the three of us. But 734 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:33,239 Speaker 1: with Chuck, I mean, he's just a delight. I think 735 00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 1: you would agree with that. He's just a cool dude 736 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 1: as you are. And um, we got to chat Matrix 737 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:40,240 Speaker 1: for way too long. And by the time this episode 738 00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,200 Speaker 1: is out, your Matrix episode should be live in the 739 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,319 Speaker 1: world for folks to check out. It's already out there, 740 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,000 Speaker 1: no way, yeah, all right, check it out now. And 741 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:48,279 Speaker 1: if you don't want to do that one and that 742 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:49,880 Speaker 1: and here, what's wrong with you? You should do that? 743 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,240 Speaker 1: You can just send us a good old fashioned email. 744 00:42:52,280 --> 00:43:00,120 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com m 745 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:15,800 Speaker 1: h H. Stuff They Don't Want You to Know is 746 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,319 Speaker 1: a production of I Heeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For 747 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,759 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart 748 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 1: Radio app Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 749 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:24,320 Speaker 1: favorite shows.