WEBVTT - Bonus: Vaccines for dummies with Moderna President Dr. Stephen Hoge 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:06.200 I'm Katie Kuric, and welcome to Next Question. For the 0:00:06.280 --> 0:00:09.760 last nine months, as the coronavirus swept across the world, 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:13.960 devastating so many lives in its wake, scientists have been 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:17.000 working around the clock to develop a safe and effective 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:21.000 vaccine in record time. And now, in just the last 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:23.640 few weeks, the result from all of this hard work 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:27.960 is starting to come in and it's good news, really 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:32.880 good news. Remember what that's like. Fisser has sought emergency 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.640 use authorization for its vaccine after a study showed it 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:42.400 was effective. Asked. Resenica has seemed very promising results as well, 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:46.560 although they're still figuring out the dosing. And then there's Maderna, 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:50.919 a tiny biotech firm compared to these giants, which has 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:55.240 also cracked the code on a vaccine using a novel approach. 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:59.400 Stephen Hoague is a doctor, a scientist, and the president 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:02.880 of Maderna. I had a wide ranging conversation with him 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:07.199 about his company, the pandemic, and the vaccines and the pipeline, 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:12.080 who gets them and when call this vaccines for dummies. 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:15.800 I started by asking him how excited he was when 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:19.680 he first heard the news that Maderna was making it happen, 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:30.200 doctor Hope. Last week, Maderna announced it had developed a 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:35.120 vaccine that was ninety four point five effective. What went 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:37.880 through your head when you heard the news, Well, I 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:40.880 had the privilege of actually hearing it live from the 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:44.760 Independent Data and Safety Monitoring Board. It's called it dsmb UM. 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:48.120 So you're called into a virtual room with eight or 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:51.920 nine senior academics, real leaders in their field, and they 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:55.440 start reading out the results to you. And the first 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:57.320 bit was a little bit of the procedure, and the 0:01:57.320 --> 0:01:59.440 second they started calling out the case numbers, and they 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:04.320 said that of the cases cases were on placebo. And 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:06.280 I'll have to admit I went ear to ear with 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:07.920 a grin and almost didn't hear anything else for the 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:12.200 next two minutes. Um. It was this feeling of incredible relief. 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:16.320 We've been working really hard for a year, but for 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:20.840 many years on this technology, and it's just this feeling of, oh, 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:23.239 my goodness, it hasn't all been for nothing. There is 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:27.200 going to be a vaccine. It's available. It quickly passed 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.200 within within about a minute or two, it turned into 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:32.960 this dread of the work we have ahead to manufacture 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:35.079 and distribute hundreds of millions of doses in the vaccine. 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:38.960 But but it was a really wonderful day lessunday. Tell 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:42.200 me what that means when you say without getting too 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:47.079 and the weeds. Uh, ninety of the patients were on placebo. 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:50.680 I mean, can you just boil down the news you heard? 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:54.920 And so somebody at home without any kind of medical 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:59.440 background might understand. Sure. Yeah. Let me let me start 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:02.080 by described being the study that we were that we 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:06.359 were running. So the clinical trial involved thirty tho participants 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:08.720 and the value of these clinical trials is that their 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:12.160 placebo control. And so you randomize people one to want 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:15.000 to either receive a placebo or the vaccine. And so 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:19.160 there's fifteen thousand people that received placebo and fifteen thousand 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:21.840 people that receive vaccine. And for the last two to 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:24.720 three months, those people have been going about their daily lives, 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:27.839 hopefully practicing social distance and other things, but ultimately going 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:29.960 to work and doing things that might give them a 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:33.320 risk of infection. And what we've been doing is an 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:36.839 independent data and Safety Monitoring board has been counting out 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:40.360 every time somebody becomes infected with COVID where you confirm 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:43.640 its COVID and they've become ill, maybe severe COVID or mild, 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:45.760 it doesn't really matter. They're they're just trying to see 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:48.880 where their cases happen, and those cases are counted up 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:53.200 until there's overwhelming statistical evidence that there were more cases 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.720 on the placebo arm than the vaccine arm. And as 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:59.640 that happened over the last three months, what eventually came transpire, 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:02.040 what we and about last Sunday was that they had 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:05.800 reached nine cases. Ninety out of the fifteen thousand people 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:09.160 on the placebo had developed COVID, and that contrasted with 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:13.480 in the fifteen received vaccine only five cases. Only five 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:17.640 people had contracted CODE, which meant that the relative protection 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:21.040 was about ninety four point five the difference between the 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:24.480 ninety out of fifteen thousand and five. You described the 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:28.240 moments before the call revealing these results as the most 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:31.120 nerve wracking hour of nerves, of a nerve wracking week, 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:36.080 of a nerve racking year. Yes, it's been really long. 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:38.960 I think we've all lived it, uh and so our 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:42.200 experience that during our my experience have been no different 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:43.760 in some ways than what we've all gone through in 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:47.560 our lives. Everything feels disrupted, everything feels like it's on pause. 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:50.680 The difference for us is that we have been working 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:55.680 nearly seven for about about nine ten months now, never 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:59.479 a day off, trying to advance this vaccine. You know, 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:01.839 on the belief that it was going to make a difference, 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:06.160 but until you have proof, it's just belief. And so, uh, 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:08.640 it was. It was a nerve right that final hour, 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.680 that final weekend when you knew the results were in. 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:13.680 But it's a bit like it's at the OSCARS and 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:16.120 it's an infin in an envelope. You're not allowed to 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:19.120 open the envelope. Only the Independent Data Safety Monitoring Board 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:21.200 is allowed to open it. And they've got a scheduled 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:23.359 meeting two days from now, and so for those forty 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:27.240 eight hours, you're just tossing and turning. Um, my wife said, 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:29.400 I was. I didn't sleep the entire time. I thought 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:31.560 I did, but apparently I tossed and turned all mine 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:33.760 both right, And I know everybody else that was involved 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:36.200 in the study, even outside of the company, probably felt 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.039 the same way. Uh. And then of course you get 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:41.640 news that they've gone into the room. Um, and so 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:44.560 they've the virtual room, they started their meeting, and you're 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:47.719 just waiting, just waiting for them to call you in, 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.600 and an hour goes by, and a second hour goes by, 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.239 and you're you're you're biting your finger, and I was going, Wow, 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:55.840 what's going on? How could it be so difficult? Uh? 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:58.440 And it was finally at that last moment that we 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:01.120 were let in about noon on Sunday, UH and heard 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:06.960 the results live. Operation warp Speed basically encouraged a lot 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:09.920 of companies to come up with vaccines, and in fact, 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:15.680 Viser and now astro Zeneca are coming up with vaccines. 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:19.880 How do you feel about these other companies that are 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:23.360 coming forward with their own vaccines? Is that good news? 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:26.560 I think it's great news. Um. I think if you 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:29.920 everybody sort of accepts that the only way we're really 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:32.359 going to stop this pandemic is a vaccine. We have 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:36.000 to beat the virus everywhere. And since there's billions of 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:37.839 us on the planets and you know us, we need 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:41.719 many billions of doses. And so from the beginning, even 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:44.200 from earliest part of this year, we said the most 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:47.920 vaccine we'd probably be able to make in one is 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:50.440 about a billion doses, and we're still on track for that. 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:54.160 But one billion doses will only cover half a billion people, 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:59.240 five and a million people. There two doses per person exactly, 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:02.280 that's right. So since our vaccine requires two doses per person, 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:04.719 it would only cover five or million. So there are 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:07.480 literally billions of doses more that need to be created 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:10.520 by other persons. So as a group of companies, we've 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:13.000 actually been rooting for each other because if we only 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:16.040 end up with five million people covered, the pandemic doesn't end. 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:18.640 We don't get our lives back. Um. And so what's 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:22.760 really been happening between the companies coordinated by Operation warp Speed, 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:25.880 But frankly, I think between the companies organically is an 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:30.400 unprecedented level of coordination because everybody recognizes that we all 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:34.200 have to deliver. When when any one of us achieves 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:37.240 a result like we did last week, we often email 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:40.200 each other and I emailed congratulations to ask Prozonica just 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:42.800 this week, because we're counting on each other. We're counting 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:44.560 on them to come through, just like they were counting 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:46.920 on us to come through to feed back to ours. 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:49.960 Why is it so difficult to produce huge amounts of 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:55.080 these vaccines. No, it's the numbers. If you think about it, 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.680 the absolute numbers of vaccines there's not many things that 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:01.840 we create as in this world, and drugs have to 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:04.960 be made to a very high standard quality UM. That 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:08.160 have that to be a complexity that we make billions of, right, 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:10.520 we make lots of things that are smaller UM, but 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:14.720 it's the it's the complexity of making a medicine making 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:16.720 sure it's done to the highest quality standards and the 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.880 highest degree of control. That adds the additional challenge. It's 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:21.640 not just like trying to create something else that we 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:24.800 might create billions of every year as a society. And 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:27.600 so you have to invest in manufacturing. You have to 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:31.640 invest in purpose built manufacturing lines, you have to train people. 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:33.840 They have to get extremely good. You can't get it 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:37.000 right of the time. It has to be multiple sigma 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:41.119 here to be nine UM. And you have to establish 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:44.440 quality systems around that that allow you to measure it 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:46.800 and control it and make sure that when somebody takes 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:50.200 your vaccine, whether it's madonnas or astrosenacers or visors, they 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:52.280 can be sure it's a high quality vaccine. It's gonna 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:56.400 work for them. That process just takes time and money 0:08:56.520 --> 0:09:02.040 and effort from people, and even with the incredible financial 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:04.800 resources that the US government has brought to their UM 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:07.040 and many of the companies are brought to their it's 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:09.280 still a huge lift, UM, and there's still lots of 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:11.360 potholes along the way that you have to plan for 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:14.960 and get act. Let's talk about the technique that you 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:19.160 and Fizer use, something called messenger RNA. Tell me about 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:21.600 tried to explain it to me. I think I got it, 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:23.840 but I'm going to give you a chance. Can you 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:27.960 explain for people who have an eighth grade understanding of science, 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:32.320 how this actually works? Right? This is one Katie, I 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:34.199 might have to take a couple of stabs at because 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:36.320 I'm still working on explaining this to some of my 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:40.280 family after after ten years in the field. It's it's 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:43.160 there's something a little bit counterintuitive about it. But but 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:47.760 let me try so. Messenger RNA is a molecule that 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:51.040 exists in all of ourselves. UM. That is the instructions 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:54.480 for making every protein in your body, every protein in life, UM. 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:58.079 And so it's just a set of instructions. It literally 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:00.240 tells us all what protein to make, it how much 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:03.320 of it to make. It's a very natural molecule. In fact, 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:06.280 if it's one of the oldest molecules in life, and 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:10.800 what we do as a message company is rather than 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:13.640 giving you the protein, which is what most vaccines do. 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:15.400 If you think about a flu vaccine, you'll grow up 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:17.880 the protein and eggs or something like that. You'll purify it. 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.960 You'll then administer it in the body will have an 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:24.199 immune response to that protein, so learn how to fight 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:28.120 against the virus that protein. What messenger ARNA is is 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:30.600 it's just the instructions for the body to make that 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:33.559 protein itself. It sort of works with your body, not 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:36.560 on your body. It provides the instructions to yournune system 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:38.959 so they can make copies of the protein as if 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:41.800 they'd encounter the virus, as if Stars Kobe two had 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:44.600 snuck in, but actually it hadn't. They just got one 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.400 piece of instructions, one part of the virus that they 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:50.560 then make copies of that protein and then learn how 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:52.760 to defend against it. In this case the spike protein, 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:57.959 so it probably I am getting it, so it triggers 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:01.800 the immune response in both cases, but in this case 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:06.440 you're not You're you're not injecting the body with a 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:11.600 version of the virus. You're simply instructing the cells how 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:14.480 to deal with the virus. If in fact it happens, 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:18.000 that's right, that's exactly right. And the big differences do 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:20.760 you inject the virus or a broken piece of the 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:23.960 virus or do you just inject the instructions for what 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:26.840 the virus looks like? If you will all wanted toister that, 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:29.560 then the immune system gets to learn on and train 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:32.280 on and when it encounters the virus, it's not naive. 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:34.800 Your immune system knows what it's looking for, says, oh, 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:37.280 I've seen this, I've seen this wanted tister before, and 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:39.520 I'm now going to be able to protect this. So 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:43.679 this is the method that Maderna and Visor used, But 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:48.520 astro Zenicas is more old school. It is UM, it's 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:52.600 more UM, it's more the traditional way. There are there 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:56.080 are six big efforts in vaccines under the rubric of 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:59.320 operation work, speed, and so there's two Messenger Arny companies, 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:03.080 and there's two companies working on viral vectors is what 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:05.840 they're called. And so astra Zeneca and Johnson and Johnson 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:08.840 are both working on viral vectors. What this means is 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:12.079 you take another virus. In the case of astrosenneca, it's 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:15.400 a twopen ze virus. And you cause that virus to 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:18.520 make a copy of one of the proteins on the 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:21.000 stars copy two virus, and so it kind of makes 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:24.040 a mimic and you inject that You grow up that virus, 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:26.880 and then you inject that virus into people and it 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:29.520 sneaks into their immune system, infects them because it's a 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:33.760 virus and makes copies of that protein. That technology using 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:39.080 using engineered viruses has been around a bit longer. The 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:42.920 longest in the tooth technology is actually something called we're 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:46.000 combinant proteins um and the last couple of companies, so 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.960 Sena Fee and a company called Novavax, are working on 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:52.880 a combinant protein appropaches. That's where similar to what you're 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:55.040 used to do with your flu vaccine, you grow up 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:58.400 the protein in a culture or in the case of 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:01.800 fluids and eggs, and you purify that protein now from 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:04.120 the surface of the virus, and then you inject that 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:08.680 piece of the virus into the body. Knowing that you 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:12.240 may have a best at interest. Dr Hope Um, is 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:17.400 there any approach that is preferable over the others. I'll 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:21.959 confess I'm I'm ten years into a story. Believing messenger 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:23.679 RNA is going to be the best approach. So I'm 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.880 not a d percent objective, but I am a scientist 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:29.600 as well, and I think they all have pluses and minuses. 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:33.439 One of the advantages of messenger RNA that we've always 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:36.440 thought uh is, frankly is being brought to bear right 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:39.480 now is the fact that it's so versatile. The fact 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:42.360 that it's really just information. It's more of a digital 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:46.080 technology where we can use our systems are manufacturing systems 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:49.360 for any vaccine has allowed us to go incredibly fast, 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:51.400 and I think that proof is in the pudding in 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:54.600 the sense that both Fiser and Maderna to Messenger RNA 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:57.680 approaches have been first to be able to produce phase 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:01.600 three results despite these being new technologies, and hopefully you're 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:03.560 going to be able to distribute millions of doses this year. 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:07.560 Being objective, I think the other approach that is the 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:11.560 most established is there comminant protein approaches. So the approach 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:13.719 being taken by Santa Fia Nova vacs where you make 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:17.160 the protein, you purify it using pretty traditional approaches, and 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:20.360 then you injected into the arm directly. And that's a 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:24.280 situation as an approach that's got many decades of experience 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:28.520 UM and ultimately works well within the infrastructure for vaccine 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.360 distribution UM that already exists out there because it's you know, 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:34.160 decades old. And so if you were to sort of 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:37.840 pick on the extremes, the fast and new UM and 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:41.480 hopefully in the long term, I believe quite quite positively 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:45.000 disruptive would be Messenger RNA and the more established UM 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:47.840 and precedented or common protein are probably the most known. 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:52.280 The adamovol vector approaches being taken by Astra, Zeneca and 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:55.120 and Johnson and Johnson are all equally valid. There's there's 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:57.920 not really the same history as our common protein and 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:00.320 they're not quite as fast and simple as Messenger our name, 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:04.200 but will be very grateful if they're able to deliver 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:06.360 billions of doses and help self the pandemic. And so 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.880 you're rooting for all of them, and frankly, I would 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:12.320 take any of them. I hope to get a Maderna 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:16.600 vaccine personally selfishly, but I would I would feel comfortable 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:18.960 based on the data that I'm seeing on phase three 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:23.760 receiving union. When we come back more with Maderna President 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:37.000 Dr Stephen Hogue once again, Dr Stephen Hogue president of MADERNA. 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:43.080 Let's talk about Messenger RNA. Does it portend a lot 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:47.400 of exciting breakthroughs for other diseases? You know, I'm thinking, 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:49.680 why can't we come up with a cure for cancer 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:53.800 if we can get operation warp speed to develop all 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:57.600 these different vaccines and record time. It's a great question. 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:00.040 And we at Maderna had been working on this for 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:04.840 about a decade um and so we actually have five 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:08.360 programs in clinical trials against cancer right now using message 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:12.680 our including at least two programs that are vaccine approaches 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:16.520 and three programs that are therapeutic approaches. Those are in 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:18.840 earlier stages of development and so their phase one in 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:22.440 phase two studies, and we're still proving the potential of 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:25.320 the technology there. But we have approaches in other therapeutic 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:28.280 carriers as well, rare diseases and autommune diseases. And we 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:32.520 do think ultimately this technology will change the way people 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:35.800 make medicine in the future. We think about it, we 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:39.040 move away from creating drugs that work on your body 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:41.040 they kind of come from the outside and do something 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:43.320 to it, and actually try and move to a world 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:46.440 where we're just providing information to yourselves to your body 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:49.240 in the way that's used to processing it um and 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:51.680 the instructions for for how to either treate a disease 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:54.760 like cancer or prevent a disease like stars Kobe and 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:57.560 I think that's the exciting part of messenger urity that's 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.360 generated a lot of enthusiasm for us over the last decade. 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:04.199 We never intended to be a COVID nineteen company. We 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:06.560 still don't think of ourselves as a COVID nineteen company. 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.040 We've certainly got an allot of attention to become a 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:11.159 bit of a household team because of it, and so 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:13.840 in that sense we have to recognize it. But I 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:16.639 think the potential of the technology is is just starting 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:19.400 to be discovered, and I'm really excited about the work 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.920 we're doing exactly in cancer right now, because I think 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:26.000 that that potential could impact our allives as well. Other 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:29.479 than cancer. Do you see promise and other diseases like 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:34.000 I don't know, Parkinson's for example, and some of these 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:38.960 neuromuscular disorders at Alzheimer's. I mean, do you think that 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:43.640 that you can can sort of help the body respond 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:47.399 to some of these things when it goes haywire? I 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:49.679 think so the question is when, all right, if you 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:53.320 if you ask somebody like me, an entrepreneur, UM, it's 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:55.040 just a question of time. And I do think some 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:57.439 of those diseases, well, we will get there and I 0:17:57.520 --> 0:17:59.679 absolutely believe will make a difference, but it will probably 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.359 take a decade. And the reason I say that is 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:04.439 there's a lot of complexity in some of the diseases 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:09.520 you're listing out Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. UM there's a huge 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:13.200 inflammatory component of the immune system there, but there's also 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:16.240 other things happening, and so it will take some time 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:18.199 to figure out how to use a new technology like 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:20.840 this to try and address those diseases. Whereas some of 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:25.200 the things like infectious disease, metabolic diseases, heart diseases, where 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:27.960 we're actually working right now in clinical trials, UM, you 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:30.480 have a better understanding what's going to be required when 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:32.400 you use a new technology of this. So I view 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:35.120 it over the twenty thirty year time horizon as absolutely 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:38.080 and that's what we're committed to trying to do. And 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:41.720 obviously cancer, as you mentioned, is a huge area of 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:45.440 rethink you can have an impact. Absolutely, yeah, we've made 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:48.720 In fact, if you look at our pipeline. The second 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:51.720 largest area of clinical work we're doing clinical trials is 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:56.199 in cancer, any particular cancer. I'm just curious. So we 0:18:56.280 --> 0:19:00.000 have our most advanced programs. There's three of them. UM. 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.679 One is in skin cancer and so melanoma. There's a 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:07.520 it's a randomized phase to traveling. We have a program 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:09.960 in head and neck cancer SCREAM and cell carcinoma in 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:13.080 the head and neck UM that's in an expansion covert. 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:15.560 And then we have a no variant cancer phase to 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:19.000 study that's up and running as well. There's other cancers 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:21.080 we're looking in, but those are the three most advanced. 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:25.320 So exciting I think to hear about this and hopefully 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:30.520 calling cancer that's my particular area of interest and concerned, 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:32.840 so hopefully you guys can work on that too. Let 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:36.360 me move back to the back vaccine sort of in general, 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:40.880 let's talk about distribution, if we could, Doctor Hoag, how 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:44.680 involved are you in distribution and how concerned are you 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:49.240 about rapid distribution to the populations who need it the most? 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:53.199 So I think we're all deeply focused on making sure 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:56.879 the vaccine rapidly becomes available as many people as possible. Selfishly, 0:19:56.880 --> 0:19:59.640 we want our lives back. But truly it's been about 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:01.520 all the what we've done is all for not if 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:03.680 we can't get the vaccine in the arms of people 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:07.199 who needn't want it UM. So we've worked with the 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:09.919 US government and particularly the folks at the Department of 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:12.960 Defense under operational warp speed. It's a general Tarnis team 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:16.879 pretty intensely over the summer and fall in anticipation of 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:20.640 an approval or an emergency use authorization. It's such that 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:23.640 you know, we now know down to the hour what's 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:28.679 happening post approval, post authorization to try and get the 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:31.080 truck's rolling, if you will, to the States so they 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:33.560 have access to the vaccine. We've been working to make 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:35.879 sure they understand all of the characteristics of the vaccine, 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:37.520 how it has to be stored and distributed. We've been 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:40.600 working with companies that they brought in, like McKesson uh 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:44.200 to to start deepoting and stockpiling some of the vaccine 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:46.439 UM and we're going to continue to work around the 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:49.560 Clockett it seems we're literally two seven as an operation 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:52.679 right now. UM to make sure that we're manufacturing on 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:55.520 a regular schedule, delivering those are getting filled, and then 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:59.600 ultimately move into the distribution supply chain. It's important to 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:03.040 note that as a company, our limits we we have, 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:08.840 we're only about people, mostly in Massachusetts, and so where 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:11.119 we will hand off to the government and rely on 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:14.600 the government for distribution is after filling at the factory 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:18.760 and ultimately from a depot. Distributing to the states is 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:22.159 something that really only the United States government and the 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:26.040 states can can manage effectively. So that will be the 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:28.760 primary mendisum by which people will get their vaccines through 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:32.639 their state departments out. Have you guys applied for emergency 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:37.399 authorization already? If not, what we've said is sometime in 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:40.159 the next week or so, we expect we will, but 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:42.280 we've got work to do. We just got access to 0:21:42.320 --> 0:21:45.520 the data last week and as you can imagine, there's 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:49.000 a tremendous amount to pour over and to prepare UH 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:52.000 appropriate and high quality filing for the d So we're 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:54.919 working on that now. Expect that to happen um in 0:21:54.960 --> 0:21:58.120 the next week or so and then UH and then 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:01.240 we're hoping for an emergencies authorization sometimes a second half 0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:04.160 to set. When do you think your vaccine can get 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:08.600 out there? Do you have any timetable, yet it's entirely 0:22:08.640 --> 0:22:10.880 dependent upon the FDA, So you know, I always want 0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:13.240