1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: I'm Katie Kuric, and welcome to Next Question. For the 2 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: last nine months, as the coronavirus swept across the world, 3 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: devastating so many lives in its wake, scientists have been 4 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: working around the clock to develop a safe and effective 5 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: vaccine in record time. And now, in just the last 6 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: few weeks, the result from all of this hard work 7 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: is starting to come in and it's good news, really 8 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: good news. Remember what that's like. Fisser has sought emergency 9 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: use authorization for its vaccine after a study showed it 10 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: was effective. Asked. Resenica has seemed very promising results as well, 11 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 1: although they're still figuring out the dosing. And then there's Maderna, 12 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,919 Speaker 1: a tiny biotech firm compared to these giants, which has 13 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: also cracked the code on a vaccine using a novel approach. 14 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: Stephen Hoague is a doctor, a scientist, and the president 15 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: of Maderna. I had a wide ranging conversation with him 16 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:07,199 Speaker 1: about his company, the pandemic, and the vaccines and the pipeline, 17 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: who gets them and when call this vaccines for dummies. 18 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: I started by asking him how excited he was when 19 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 1: he first heard the news that Maderna was making it happen, 20 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: doctor Hope. Last week, Maderna announced it had developed a 21 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: vaccine that was ninety four point five effective. What went 22 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: through your head when you heard the news, Well, I 23 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: had the privilege of actually hearing it live from the 24 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: Independent Data and Safety Monitoring Board. It's called it dsmb UM. 25 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: So you're called into a virtual room with eight or 26 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: nine senior academics, real leaders in their field, and they 27 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: start reading out the results to you. And the first 28 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: bit was a little bit of the procedure, and the 29 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: second they started calling out the case numbers, and they 30 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: said that of the cases cases were on placebo. And 31 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: I'll have to admit I went ear to ear with 32 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: a grin and almost didn't hear anything else for the 33 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: next two minutes. Um. It was this feeling of incredible relief. 34 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: We've been working really hard for a year, but for 35 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: many years on this technology, and it's just this feeling of, oh, 36 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,239 Speaker 1: my goodness, it hasn't all been for nothing. There is 37 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: going to be a vaccine. It's available. It quickly passed 38 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: within within about a minute or two, it turned into 39 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: this dread of the work we have ahead to manufacture 40 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 1: and distribute hundreds of millions of doses in the vaccine. 41 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: But but it was a really wonderful day lessunday. Tell 42 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: me what that means when you say without getting too 43 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 1: and the weeds. Uh, ninety of the patients were on placebo. 44 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: I mean, can you just boil down the news you heard? 45 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: And so somebody at home without any kind of medical 46 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: background might understand. Sure. Yeah. Let me let me start 47 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: by described being the study that we were that we 48 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 1: were running. So the clinical trial involved thirty tho participants 49 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: and the value of these clinical trials is that their 50 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: placebo control. And so you randomize people one to want 51 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: to either receive a placebo or the vaccine. And so 52 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: there's fifteen thousand people that received placebo and fifteen thousand 53 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: people that receive vaccine. And for the last two to 54 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: three months, those people have been going about their daily lives, 55 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,839 Speaker 1: hopefully practicing social distance and other things, but ultimately going 56 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: to work and doing things that might give them a 57 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: risk of infection. And what we've been doing is an 58 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,839 Speaker 1: independent data and Safety Monitoring board has been counting out 59 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: every time somebody becomes infected with COVID where you confirm 60 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: its COVID and they've become ill, maybe severe COVID or mild, 61 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter. They're they're just trying to see 62 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: where their cases happen, and those cases are counted up 63 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: until there's overwhelming statistical evidence that there were more cases 64 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: on the placebo arm than the vaccine arm. And as 65 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: that happened over the last three months, what eventually came transpire, 66 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: what we and about last Sunday was that they had 67 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: reached nine cases. Ninety out of the fifteen thousand people 68 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: on the placebo had developed COVID, and that contrasted with 69 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: in the fifteen received vaccine only five cases. Only five 70 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: people had contracted CODE, which meant that the relative protection 71 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: was about ninety four point five the difference between the 72 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 1: ninety out of fifteen thousand and five. You described the 73 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: moments before the call revealing these results as the most 74 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: nerve wracking hour of nerves, of a nerve wracking week, 75 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: of a nerve racking year. Yes, it's been really long. 76 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: I think we've all lived it, uh and so our 77 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: experience that during our my experience have been no different 78 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: in some ways than what we've all gone through in 79 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: our lives. Everything feels disrupted, everything feels like it's on pause. 80 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: The difference for us is that we have been working 81 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: nearly seven for about about nine ten months now, never 82 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 1: a day off, trying to advance this vaccine. You know, 83 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: on the belief that it was going to make a difference, 84 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 1: but until you have proof, it's just belief. And so, uh, 85 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: it was. It was a nerve right that final hour, 86 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: that final weekend when you knew the results were in. 87 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: But it's a bit like it's at the OSCARS and 88 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: it's an infin in an envelope. You're not allowed to 89 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: open the envelope. Only the Independent Data Safety Monitoring Board 90 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: is allowed to open it. And they've got a scheduled 91 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 1: meeting two days from now, and so for those forty 92 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: eight hours, you're just tossing and turning. Um, my wife said, 93 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: I was. I didn't sleep the entire time. I thought 94 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: I did, but apparently I tossed and turned all mine 95 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: both right, And I know everybody else that was involved 96 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: in the study, even outside of the company, probably felt 97 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 1: the same way. Uh. And then of course you get 98 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: news that they've gone into the room. Um, and so 99 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: they've the virtual room, they started their meeting, and you're 100 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 1: just waiting, just waiting for them to call you in, 101 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: and an hour goes by, and a second hour goes by, 102 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,239 Speaker 1: and you're you're you're biting your finger, and I was going, Wow, 103 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 1: what's going on? How could it be so difficult? Uh? 104 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: And it was finally at that last moment that we 105 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: were let in about noon on Sunday, UH and heard 106 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: the results live. Operation warp Speed basically encouraged a lot 107 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: of companies to come up with vaccines, and in fact, 108 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: Viser and now astro Zeneca are coming up with vaccines. 109 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: How do you feel about these other companies that are 110 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: coming forward with their own vaccines? Is that good news? 111 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: I think it's great news. Um. I think if you 112 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: everybody sort of accepts that the only way we're really 113 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,359 Speaker 1: going to stop this pandemic is a vaccine. We have 114 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: to beat the virus everywhere. And since there's billions of 115 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: us on the planets and you know us, we need 116 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: many billions of doses. And so from the beginning, even 117 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: from earliest part of this year, we said the most 118 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: vaccine we'd probably be able to make in one is 119 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: about a billion doses, and we're still on track for that. 120 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: But one billion doses will only cover half a billion people, 121 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: five and a million people. There two doses per person exactly, 122 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 1: that's right. So since our vaccine requires two doses per person, 123 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: it would only cover five or million. So there are 124 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 1: literally billions of doses more that need to be created 125 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: by other persons. So as a group of companies, we've 126 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: actually been rooting for each other because if we only 127 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: end up with five million people covered, the pandemic doesn't end. 128 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: We don't get our lives back. Um. And so what's 129 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: really been happening between the companies coordinated by Operation warp Speed, 130 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: But frankly, I think between the companies organically is an 131 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: unprecedented level of coordination because everybody recognizes that we all 132 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: have to deliver. When when any one of us achieves 133 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: a result like we did last week, we often email 134 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: each other and I emailed congratulations to ask Prozonica just 135 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: this week, because we're counting on each other. We're counting 136 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: on them to come through, just like they were counting 137 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: on us to come through to feed back to ours. 138 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: Why is it so difficult to produce huge amounts of 139 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: these vaccines. No, it's the numbers. If you think about it, 140 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: the absolute numbers of vaccines there's not many things that 141 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: we create as in this world, and drugs have to 142 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: be made to a very high standard quality UM. That 143 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: have that to be a complexity that we make billions of, right, 144 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: we make lots of things that are smaller UM, but 145 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: it's the it's the complexity of making a medicine making 146 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: sure it's done to the highest quality standards and the 147 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: highest degree of control. That adds the additional challenge. It's 148 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: not just like trying to create something else that we 149 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: might create billions of every year as a society. And 150 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: so you have to invest in manufacturing. You have to 151 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: invest in purpose built manufacturing lines, you have to train people. 152 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: They have to get extremely good. You can't get it 153 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: right of the time. It has to be multiple sigma 154 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:41,119 Speaker 1: here to be nine UM. And you have to establish 155 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: quality systems around that that allow you to measure it 156 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: and control it and make sure that when somebody takes 157 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: your vaccine, whether it's madonnas or astrosenacers or visors, they 158 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: can be sure it's a high quality vaccine. It's gonna 159 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: work for them. That process just takes time and money 160 00:08:56,520 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: and effort from people, and even with the incredible financial 161 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: resources that the US government has brought to their UM 162 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: and many of the companies are brought to their it's 163 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: still a huge lift, UM, and there's still lots of 164 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: potholes along the way that you have to plan for 165 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: and get act. Let's talk about the technique that you 166 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: and Fizer use, something called messenger RNA. Tell me about 167 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: tried to explain it to me. I think I got it, 168 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: but I'm going to give you a chance. Can you 169 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: explain for people who have an eighth grade understanding of science, 170 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: how this actually works? Right? This is one Katie, I 171 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,199 Speaker 1: might have to take a couple of stabs at because 172 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 1: I'm still working on explaining this to some of my 173 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: family after after ten years in the field. It's it's 174 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: there's something a little bit counterintuitive about it. But but 175 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: let me try so. Messenger RNA is a molecule that 176 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: exists in all of ourselves. UM. That is the instructions 177 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: for making every protein in your body, every protein in life, UM. 178 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 1: And so it's just a set of instructions. It literally 179 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: tells us all what protein to make, it how much 180 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: of it to make. It's a very natural molecule. In fact, 181 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: if it's one of the oldest molecules in life, and 182 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: what we do as a message company is rather than 183 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: giving you the protein, which is what most vaccines do. 184 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: If you think about a flu vaccine, you'll grow up 185 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: the protein and eggs or something like that. You'll purify it. 186 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: You'll then administer it in the body will have an 187 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,199 Speaker 1: immune response to that protein, so learn how to fight 188 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: against the virus that protein. What messenger ARNA is is 189 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: it's just the instructions for the body to make that 190 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 1: protein itself. It sort of works with your body, not 191 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: on your body. It provides the instructions to yournune system 192 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 1: so they can make copies of the protein as if 193 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: they'd encounter the virus, as if Stars Kobe two had 194 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: snuck in, but actually it hadn't. They just got one 195 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: piece of instructions, one part of the virus that they 196 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: then make copies of that protein and then learn how 197 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: to defend against it. In this case the spike protein, 198 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:57,959 Speaker 1: so it probably I am getting it, so it triggers 199 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: the immune response in both cases, but in this case 200 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: you're not You're you're not injecting the body with a 201 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: version of the virus. You're simply instructing the cells how 202 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: to deal with the virus. If in fact it happens, 203 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: that's right, that's exactly right. And the big differences do 204 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: you inject the virus or a broken piece of the 205 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 1: virus or do you just inject the instructions for what 206 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: the virus looks like? If you will all wanted toister that, 207 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: then the immune system gets to learn on and train 208 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: on and when it encounters the virus, it's not naive. 209 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 1: Your immune system knows what it's looking for, says, oh, 210 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: I've seen this, I've seen this wanted tister before, and 211 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: I'm now going to be able to protect this. So 212 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 1: this is the method that Maderna and Visor used, But 213 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: astro Zenicas is more old school. It is UM, it's 214 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: more UM, it's more the traditional way. There are there 215 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 1: are six big efforts in vaccines under the rubric of 216 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: operation work, speed, and so there's two Messenger Arny companies, 217 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: and there's two companies working on viral vectors is what 218 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: they're called. And so astra Zeneca and Johnson and Johnson 219 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: are both working on viral vectors. What this means is 220 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,079 Speaker 1: you take another virus. In the case of astrosenneca, it's 221 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: a twopen ze virus. And you cause that virus to 222 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: make a copy of one of the proteins on the 223 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: stars copy two virus, and so it kind of makes 224 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: a mimic and you inject that You grow up that virus, 225 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: and then you inject that virus into people and it 226 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: sneaks into their immune system, infects them because it's a 227 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: virus and makes copies of that protein. That technology using 228 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: using engineered viruses has been around a bit longer. The 229 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: longest in the tooth technology is actually something called we're 230 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: combinant proteins um and the last couple of companies, so 231 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 1: Sena Fee and a company called Novavax, are working on 232 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: a combinant protein appropaches. That's where similar to what you're 233 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: used to do with your flu vaccine, you grow up 234 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: the protein in a culture or in the case of 235 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: fluids and eggs, and you purify that protein now from 236 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: the surface of the virus, and then you inject that 237 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 1: piece of the virus into the body. Knowing that you 238 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: may have a best at interest. Dr Hope Um, is 239 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: there any approach that is preferable over the others. I'll 240 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:21,959 Speaker 1: confess I'm I'm ten years into a story. Believing messenger 241 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:23,679 Speaker 1: RNA is going to be the best approach. So I'm 242 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: not a d percent objective, but I am a scientist 243 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: as well, and I think they all have pluses and minuses. 244 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,439 Speaker 1: One of the advantages of messenger RNA that we've always 245 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: thought uh is, frankly is being brought to bear right 246 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: now is the fact that it's so versatile. The fact 247 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: that it's really just information. It's more of a digital 248 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 1: technology where we can use our systems are manufacturing systems 249 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: for any vaccine has allowed us to go incredibly fast, 250 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: and I think that proof is in the pudding in 251 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: the sense that both Fiser and Maderna to Messenger RNA 252 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: approaches have been first to be able to produce phase 253 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: three results despite these being new technologies, and hopefully you're 254 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: going to be able to distribute millions of doses this year. 255 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 1: Being objective, I think the other approach that is the 256 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 1: most established is there comminant protein approaches. So the approach 257 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,719 Speaker 1: being taken by Santa Fia Nova vacs where you make 258 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: the protein, you purify it using pretty traditional approaches, and 259 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: then you injected into the arm directly. And that's a 260 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: situation as an approach that's got many decades of experience 261 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: UM and ultimately works well within the infrastructure for vaccine 262 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: distribution UM that already exists out there because it's you know, 263 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: decades old. And so if you were to sort of 264 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: pick on the extremes, the fast and new UM and 265 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: hopefully in the long term, I believe quite quite positively 266 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: disruptive would be Messenger RNA and the more established UM 267 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: and precedented or common protein are probably the most known. 268 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: The adamovol vector approaches being taken by Astra, Zeneca and 269 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: and Johnson and Johnson are all equally valid. There's there's 270 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: not really the same history as our common protein and 271 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: they're not quite as fast and simple as Messenger our name, 272 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: but will be very grateful if they're able to deliver 273 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: billions of doses and help self the pandemic. And so 274 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: you're rooting for all of them, and frankly, I would 275 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: take any of them. I hope to get a Maderna 276 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: vaccine personally selfishly, but I would I would feel comfortable 277 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: based on the data that I'm seeing on phase three 278 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: receiving union. When we come back more with Maderna President 279 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: Dr Stephen Hogue once again, Dr Stephen Hogue president of MADERNA. 280 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: Let's talk about Messenger RNA. Does it portend a lot 281 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: of exciting breakthroughs for other diseases? You know, I'm thinking, 282 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: why can't we come up with a cure for cancer 283 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: if we can get operation warp speed to develop all 284 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: these different vaccines and record time. It's a great question. 285 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,040 Speaker 1: And we at Maderna had been working on this for 286 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: about a decade um and so we actually have five 287 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: programs in clinical trials against cancer right now using message 288 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: our including at least two programs that are vaccine approaches 289 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: and three programs that are therapeutic approaches. Those are in 290 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: earlier stages of development and so their phase one in 291 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: phase two studies, and we're still proving the potential of 292 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: the technology there. But we have approaches in other therapeutic 293 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: carriers as well, rare diseases and autommune diseases. And we 294 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: do think ultimately this technology will change the way people 295 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: make medicine in the future. We think about it, we 296 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: move away from creating drugs that work on your body 297 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: they kind of come from the outside and do something 298 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 1: to it, and actually try and move to a world 299 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: where we're just providing information to yourselves to your body 300 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: in the way that's used to processing it um and 301 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: the instructions for for how to either treate a disease 302 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: like cancer or prevent a disease like stars Kobe and 303 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: I think that's the exciting part of messenger urity that's 304 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: generated a lot of enthusiasm for us over the last decade. 305 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,199 Speaker 1: We never intended to be a COVID nineteen company. We 306 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: still don't think of ourselves as a COVID nineteen company. 307 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: We've certainly got an allot of attention to become a 308 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 1: bit of a household team because of it, and so 309 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: in that sense we have to recognize it. But I 310 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 1: think the potential of the technology is is just starting 311 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,400 Speaker 1: to be discovered, and I'm really excited about the work 312 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 1: we're doing exactly in cancer right now, because I think 313 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: that that potential could impact our allives as well. Other 314 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,479 Speaker 1: than cancer. Do you see promise and other diseases like 315 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: I don't know, Parkinson's for example, and some of these 316 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: neuromuscular disorders at Alzheimer's. I mean, do you think that 317 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 1: that you can can sort of help the body respond 318 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: to some of these things when it goes haywire? I 319 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: think so the question is when, all right, if you 320 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: if you ask somebody like me, an entrepreneur, UM, it's 321 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: just a question of time. And I do think some 322 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 1: of those diseases, well, we will get there and I 323 00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 1: absolutely believe will make a difference, but it will probably 324 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: take a decade. And the reason I say that is 325 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,439 Speaker 1: there's a lot of complexity in some of the diseases 326 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: you're listing out Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. UM there's a huge 327 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: inflammatory component of the immune system there, but there's also 328 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: other things happening, and so it will take some time 329 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:18,199 Speaker 1: to figure out how to use a new technology like 330 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: this to try and address those diseases. Whereas some of 331 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: the things like infectious disease, metabolic diseases, heart diseases, where 332 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 1: we're actually working right now in clinical trials, UM, you 333 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: have a better understanding what's going to be required when 334 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,400 Speaker 1: you use a new technology of this. So I view 335 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,120 Speaker 1: it over the twenty thirty year time horizon as absolutely 336 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: and that's what we're committed to trying to do. And 337 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: obviously cancer, as you mentioned, is a huge area of 338 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: rethink you can have an impact. Absolutely, yeah, we've made 339 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: In fact, if you look at our pipeline. The second 340 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: largest area of clinical work we're doing clinical trials is 341 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:56,199 Speaker 1: in cancer, any particular cancer. I'm just curious. So we 342 00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: have our most advanced programs. There's three of them. UM. 343 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 1: One is in skin cancer and so melanoma. There's a 344 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: it's a randomized phase to traveling. We have a program 345 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: in head and neck cancer SCREAM and cell carcinoma in 346 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: the head and neck UM that's in an expansion covert. 347 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: And then we have a no variant cancer phase to 348 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: study that's up and running as well. There's other cancers 349 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: we're looking in, but those are the three most advanced. 350 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: So exciting I think to hear about this and hopefully 351 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: calling cancer that's my particular area of interest and concerned, 352 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: so hopefully you guys can work on that too. Let 353 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 1: me move back to the back vaccine sort of in general, 354 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 1: let's talk about distribution, if we could, Doctor Hoag, how 355 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: involved are you in distribution and how concerned are you 356 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: about rapid distribution to the populations who need it the most? 357 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,199 Speaker 1: So I think we're all deeply focused on making sure 358 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 1: the vaccine rapidly becomes available as many people as possible. Selfishly, 359 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: we want our lives back. But truly it's been about 360 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: all the what we've done is all for not if 361 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: we can't get the vaccine in the arms of people 362 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 1: who needn't want it UM. So we've worked with the 363 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,919 Speaker 1: US government and particularly the folks at the Department of 364 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: Defense under operational warp speed. It's a general Tarnis team 365 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: pretty intensely over the summer and fall in anticipation of 366 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 1: an approval or an emergency use authorization. It's such that 367 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,640 Speaker 1: you know, we now know down to the hour what's 368 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:28,679 Speaker 1: happening post approval, post authorization to try and get the 369 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: truck's rolling, if you will, to the States so they 370 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: have access to the vaccine. We've been working to make 371 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: sure they understand all of the characteristics of the vaccine, 372 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: how it has to be stored and distributed. We've been 373 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: working with companies that they brought in, like McKesson uh 374 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: to to start deepoting and stockpiling some of the vaccine 375 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 1: UM and we're going to continue to work around the 376 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: Clockett it seems we're literally two seven as an operation 377 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,679 Speaker 1: right now. UM to make sure that we're manufacturing on 378 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: a regular schedule, delivering those are getting filled, and then 379 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: ultimately move into the distribution supply chain. It's important to 380 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: note that as a company, our limits we we have, 381 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: we're only about people, mostly in Massachusetts, and so where 382 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,119 Speaker 1: we will hand off to the government and rely on 383 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: the government for distribution is after filling at the factory 384 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: and ultimately from a depot. Distributing to the states is 385 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: something that really only the United States government and the 386 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: states can can manage effectively. So that will be the 387 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: primary mendisum by which people will get their vaccines through 388 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 1: their state departments out. Have you guys applied for emergency 389 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: authorization already? If not, what we've said is sometime in 390 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 1: the next week or so, we expect we will, but 391 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: we've got work to do. We just got access to 392 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: the data last week and as you can imagine, there's 393 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: a tremendous amount to pour over and to prepare UH 394 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: appropriate and high quality filing for the d So we're 395 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,919 Speaker 1: working on that now. Expect that to happen um in 396 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 1: the next week or so and then UH and then 397 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: we're hoping for an emergencies authorization sometimes a second half 398 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 1: to set. When do you think your vaccine can get 399 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: out there? Do you have any timetable, yet it's entirely 400 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,880 Speaker 1: dependent upon the FDA, So you know, I always want 401 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: to make clear that they have a solemn and important 402 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: responsibility to decide that it's appropriate distribute that we think 403 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 1: the data is compelling, and we're going to ask for 404 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: permission to do that. But it's it's a very important 405 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: part of our society that we have an entrepreneurship on 406 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: one hand, and then we have strong civil service that 407 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: actually provides a check on that and a review on that, 408 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: and that is a key part of our industry. So 409 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,400 Speaker 1: the FDA are the only people that can decide when 410 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: this happens. But on the assumption that they decide uh 411 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 1: within the next two to three weeks, let's say, is 412 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 1: in the middle of December, which is where we are 413 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: we're aiming ourselves. We want to make sure that we 414 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: have as much vaccine available as possible for the second 415 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: half of December to start that distribution process, and we've 416 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: been working towards about twenty million doses by the end 417 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: of December that we'd be able to hand off to 418 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: the folks at operation work speed, so that they can 419 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: actually literally get it into vaccine centers as fast as possible, 420 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: and that would vaccinate ten million people because doses are required, 421 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: that's right, So twenty million doses by the end of 422 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: December would vaccinate ten million people. But we'll continue manufacturing 423 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: and so almost every week or every other week from 424 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: then forward, we will keep making deliveries. We've committed to 425 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:25,719 Speaker 1: deliver the first one million doses to the United States government, 426 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: and frankly, there are options for them to buy up 427 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,199 Speaker 1: to five million more UH. And so that first one 428 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: million doses will be delivering, you know, on a straight 429 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,160 Speaker 1: schedule through January and February, and then perhaps continuing through 430 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: March a point and may, depending upon whether there's a need. 431 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 1: Who will get the vaccine first? Do you know, Dr 432 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: oge I don't. It really is up to the c 433 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: d C UM and their Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices UM. 434 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: At the end of the day, the federal government is 435 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: as deluted to them, the responsibility figure out who gets 436 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: it first. It's fair to say, though that the CDC 437 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: will just issue guidelines. UH. What will really happen is 438 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: Operation morps Speed will distribute our twenty million doses in 439 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: December to the States in proportion to their jurisdictions, and 440 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: then the individual states will look at the CDC guidelines, 441 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: look at what's happening in their communities, and decide the 442 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: best place to deploy. I think if everything goes to 443 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: the CDC guidelines, it's pretty clear that the healthcare providers, 444 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 1: those frontline healthcare workers that we need to keep safe 445 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: during the pandemic so that we can keep caring for 446 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 1: people when they come out, they're going to be the 447 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: first folks vaccinated, and there maybe up to twenty million 448 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 1: of them across the country. Does include people who need 449 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: to work in nursing homes and hospitals and primary care clinics, 450 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: and that's not just to make sure that they're protected 451 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: from COVID for COVID sake, but to make sure that 452 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: they're able to do all the other important things to 453 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: protect people who are having heart attacks or pneumonia or 454 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: all the other things that happened in our day to 455 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: day lives, UM, and that they're not outstick during this 456 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 1: important time. UM. Then I think you moved to critical infrastructure, 457 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: so frontline workers, people who work in food security, people 458 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: who work in UM, in government, and firefighters, police first responders, 459 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: and then ultimately to those that are the highest risk 460 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: of severe COVID nineteen, so those over the age of 461 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: sixty five or those who have co morbid conditions. And 462 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: I think that's where the CDCs recommendation will come out. 463 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: Certainly based on the conversations, that's what it seems like 464 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 1: will be the guy that's what about children? School aged children? 465 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 1: Will school aged children be vaccinated? I hope. So. I 466 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: gotta tell you, as a parent who's been doing virtual 467 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: school for for most of the fall and expect to 468 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,439 Speaker 1: do it for a good part of the next year, UM, 469 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: I feel deeply to need to get our kids back 470 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:41,679 Speaker 1: in school, make sure the teachers are saving and get 471 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 1: our kids back in school. And so, as a company, Maderna, 472 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: just like some of the other companies, have begun the 473 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 1: work of showing the vaccine is safe and effective in children. UM. 474 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: That starts with adolescence, so those twelve one up and 475 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,400 Speaker 1: then you move into the five to twelve year old 476 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: school age kids, and those studies are actually starting in 477 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: the coming weeks with us and others. The goal of 478 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: those will be that by let's say the end of 479 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: this school year, there will be data show the vaccine 480 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: is safe and effective you know the right dose to 481 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: give to children, and ultimately we all want to make 482 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 1: sure that everybody who's a schools child could receive a 483 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: vaccine before next school year, so that we could we 484 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 1: could start in September of two one the normal school year, 485 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: Soccer games on Saturdays and everything that we've come to 486 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: miss so well can't be part of another clinical trial 487 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: because they weren't part of the initial ones. Correct, that's correct. 488 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: They weren't part of the initial ones UM, and that's appropriate. 489 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: You want to make sure a vaccine is safe and 490 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: effective in adults before you enroll a kid. There's there's 491 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: there's obviously a whole bunch of extra considerations, including the 492 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: fact that a child, um you know, is immunologically can 493 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: be different, and so you can you want to make 494 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: sure that there's a potential, clear, potential benefit of the 495 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 1: vaccine before you give it to a job. So children 496 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: were not initially involved in the Phase three trials, but 497 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,119 Speaker 1: they are rapidly getting UM tested in them right now, 498 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,360 Speaker 1: and those are much smaller trials. You do not need 499 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,679 Speaker 1: thirty thousand people. It's more like a couple of thousand children, 500 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: because really all you're looking for there is to make 501 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: sure that there's nothing surprising in terms of safety or 502 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,159 Speaker 1: the dose level that you need in a trial, and 503 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: that's not you're not looking for infections as a measure 504 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: of efficacy. I know diversity in clinical trials is critically 505 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: important and there hasn't been nearly enough in the past. 506 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: How were you able to ensure that you did have 507 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: a diverse population. Well, the first thing is we had 508 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: to recognize that initially it wasn't very diverse, and so 509 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,160 Speaker 1: we started our clinical trial at the very end of July, 510 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: and by the end of August, about one month in, 511 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 1: we'd recruited about half the trial, about fifteen thousand and 512 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: thirty thousand people. But the population was was unfortunately not 513 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: very diverse. Um there was only four five percent African American, 514 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 1: there was around ten percent of those of Hispanic or 515 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 1: Latino descent, and it was it was clear that we 516 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: were not going to have While that might be okay 517 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: by historical standards, it was not going to be enough 518 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: to generate real confidence in the vaccine in those communities, 519 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 1: and so we took a very difficult choice. M the 520 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: first week in September, we came up publicly and said 521 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: we're failing to meet our expectations. We need to look 522 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: more like the country in terms of the ethnic makeup 523 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: of our of our trial, and therefore we're going to 524 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 1: slow down our quote unquot trial in the middle of 525 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: the pandemic in a bit of a race against the 526 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: virus and maybe a friendly race against other companies. That 527 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: was a pretty tough choice to me, but it was 528 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: one that we thought was the right thing to do. 529 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: The reason we slowed down is that we we thought 530 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: we need to go work with the one hundred investigator 531 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: sites across the country that we were working with. These 532 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: are doctor's offices and local communities UM and help them 533 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: figure out how to reach out to those communities that 534 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: are underrepresentative, particularly the black and hispact communities UM who 535 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: were massively underrepresented our study, and do everything we can 536 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: to help, you know, work with them, build trust with 537 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: those You have to leave the door open, you have 538 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: to work three times. Is hard in places where there 539 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: is not trust, and there's a huge trust deficit in 540 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: those communities. We had to bring in new materials, we 541 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: had to do training on bias, we had to do 542 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: we did a whole range of things. We even engaged 543 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: Dr Fauci and and the Surgeon General in outreach, we 544 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: brought in other experts and it was all focused on 545 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: let's do everything we can to try and invite those 546 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: communities with the trial. We're really pleased to say that 547 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: six or eight weeks later, when we completed enrollment, we'd 548 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: actually increased the ethnic and racial makeup of study to 549 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: be almost bang onto the United States. Um there was 550 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: only sixty folks of white non Hispanic origin over over 551 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: spending her Latin X, which is obviously higher than you 552 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: see in the country, and over ten percent Black African American, 553 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: which is a little bit lower than you see in 554 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: the country, but substantially. It gives us great pleasure m 555 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: to have accomplished that. But that's just the first step. 556 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: We know that the data therefore will be sufficiently representative 557 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: that people from those communities to have confidence the vaccine 558 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: was evaluated and if it's effective, it's effective in them, 559 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: and in fact we announced that it looks terrific. The 560 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: results look equally good in those populations, but that still 561 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: requires us to work the next step to build trust 562 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: with those communities to receive the vaccine, and there's a 563 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: lot of vaccine have with hesitancy across the country, including 564 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: in those communities, and we've got work to do there. 565 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: The one source of optimism that I'll take from it 566 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: is it it did show that in the middle of 567 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: a very difficult year on those sorts of issues on 568 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: race relations in particular, if you're willing to take the time, 569 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: slow down and work can build trust. It's hard work, 570 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: but you can do it. Um. And I I think 571 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: we were proudest of all of those one sites and 572 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: those investigators, they're the real heroes there. And actually they 573 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: went back into communities that had not wanted to participate, 574 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: tried harder and build those relationships. So I take optimism 575 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: from it. I always I'm optimistic by nature. Um. But 576 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: it does show that it requires more work. Um, That 577 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: if you're gonna correct an inequity or and imbalance, you're 578 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: going to have to do it with additional effort. It's 579 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: not going to come just from equity your valance. And 580 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: as you say, you still have a lot of work 581 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: to do to convince the population writ large that people 582 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: of color can trust the medical establishment, given the the 583 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: very uh checkered history with Tuskegee and operating on enslaved people. 584 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's going to be a bit of 585 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: a health to climb, isn't it. It is? And the 586 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: history here is horrible, and so this mistrust or this 587 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: distrust is well placed based on a lot of that history. Uh, 588 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: there's and we were coming at this partner with the 589 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: federal government through Operation War Speed through NIH uh coming 590 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: forward and saying hey, we're an exciting new biotechnology company 591 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: partnered with federal government here to help. Don't start in 592 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 1: a place of immediate trust. Uh. The thing that we 593 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: discovered was most important is that you have to work 594 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 1: with those those voices that are already trusted in the community, 595 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: whether those are faith, faith leaders or people that are 596 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: just present in the community offering healthcare advice. Um, there 597 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: are there are voices there who can actually carry that message, 598 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: and you have to make sure they understand and they 599 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: have access to information, they make their own judgments about 600 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: whether whether to recommend this or not, and those that 601 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: do can then become powerful advocates to their communities. But 602 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 1: you're not going to do it just by coming in 603 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: and saying, hey, we're here to help, because frankly, the 604 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: history on that as you just point to a Tuskegee 605 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: UM and other instances has been quite quite horth We'll 606 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: be right back after this short break. Let's talk about 607 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 1: the storage requirements. MADERNA and five or vaccines dr Hope 608 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: require special treatment if you will cold temperatures from madernast 609 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: sub arctic temperatures for fiser and outside those conditions, they 610 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: have a limited shelf life. Does this give astro Zeneca's 611 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: vaccine and edge because it doesn't have those requirements, It 612 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: can be produced in mass quantities and can be shipped 613 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: and uh, and it's and it's quite inexpensive. Are all 614 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: those things pointing to a better situation for astra Zeneca? 615 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 1: I well, I'm grateful for the fact that astro and 616 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: it can make many more doses, and so yes, I think, 617 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: I think in some ways it is UM. There are differences. 618 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: So you know, if you look at our storage conditions, 619 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: our our vaccine can be stored in a standard freezer 620 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 1: or refrigerator. It doesn't require any dry ice or special equipment. 621 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 1: Most refrigeration comes with freezing and the temperatures are the 622 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: same as you have in your home fridge. It's the 623 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 1: kind of thing that exists in almost every pharmacy in 624 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: this country almost every doctor's off office. We do need 625 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: to be stored in the freezer part for up to 626 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: six months, and we only last about a month thirty 627 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 1: days in the refrigerator. UM. And that contrast with AstraZeneca 628 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: as where you pointed to, I think they're they're currently 629 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,759 Speaker 1: the most amenable distribution where they last six months in 630 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 1: the refrigerator. Now they still require refrigeration, uh. And so 631 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 1: you still need a piece of equipment that exists again 632 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 1: much more broadly available. But there are not vaccines right 633 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,279 Speaker 1: now that are stable at justist room temperature that can 634 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: go into those non cold chain logistics. So I think 635 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: the reality of the AstraZeneca vaccine, the reason why I 636 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,840 Speaker 1: was so excited about the announcement this week is that 637 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: although the efficacy wasn't as strong, uh, you know, the 638 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 1: average efficacy was sev versus the potential for many more 639 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,439 Speaker 1: doses and for being the ability to distribute them into 640 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,399 Speaker 1: areas and maybe don't have freezers but do have refrigerators. 641 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: UM provides a real opportunity here. UM. The cost of 642 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 1: the vaccines, I mean, I I think in general cost 643 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 1: does matter for sure, UM, and the Astrogenica vaccine can 644 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,840 Speaker 1: be made more cheaply, which is good, but it's important 645 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 1: to know that the costs of these vaccines, whether you're 646 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 1: talking about five dollars or twenty dollars, is a PRODCE 647 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 1: is a is a fraction of the costs that are 648 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: being incurred just with things like testing UM you know, 649 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: which we all seem to do on a on a 650 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: regular basis, or any of the other interventions. And so 651 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 1: they're they're quite they're quite reasonably inexpensive. One of the 652 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 1: things that I think um is exciting about vaccines is 653 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: and it's often said that next to clean water, nothing 654 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 1: has done more for human health than vaccines economically and 655 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 1: socially in terms of value. But there is a focus 656 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 1: on the difference between the three pounds or the five 657 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: dollars and twenty dollars of the prices, and in that sense, 658 00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: I do think it's it's it's good that there's a 659 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,319 Speaker 1: lower cost option in the Aftrizonica vaccines. So how much 660 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,600 Speaker 1: will the majournal vaccine cost. So we've entered into agreements 661 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 1: with governments, the government of the United States agreements of 662 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,279 Speaker 1: its average price about twenty dollars per dose. UM is 663 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:17,480 Speaker 1: so the first doses are fifteen to sixteen dollars uh, 664 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: and that's you know, where we're selling it to. Almost 665 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,800 Speaker 1: all of the sales has have been to governments, to 666 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: be fair, because governments are the best positions to distribute this. 667 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: This is not something in the first half of next 668 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 1: year during the pandemic phase that many of us are 669 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 1: going to go to CBS and get or rite at 670 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 1: of a wall. Grief kid, it's it's really going to 671 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: come through your public health departments. So at twenty dollars 672 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,279 Speaker 1: a dose, that's that's forty dollars per two doses roughly. Um. 673 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: It's you know, it's hopefully uh not a big barrier 674 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 1: to broad adoption. In fact that we we priced it 675 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 1: that way with the U. S. Government and sold to 676 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:55,839 Speaker 1: USE government on the principle that it would be given 677 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: free to every American regardless of their ability to pay. 678 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: So we didn't we didn't try and maximize price or anything. 679 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,400 Speaker 1: We said, we want to make sure this is given away, 680 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:05,800 Speaker 1: and the US government has agreed that they will not 681 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: charge anybody for those doses, regardless of your ability, and 682 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: so essentially the vaccine is going to be free to 683 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:16,880 Speaker 1: Americans every vaccine that's being created, Every vaccine purchased by 684 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,759 Speaker 1: works operational work speed, including the Materurna vaccine and the 685 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: astros in A vaccine and Fiser vaccine, all of that 686 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:26,239 Speaker 1: will be free to Americans through the worst speed and ship. 687 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: So well, I get to pick which vaccine I want, 688 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 1: I don't think so I don't know. UM, it's it's 689 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,440 Speaker 1: that is that is one of the the The reality 690 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,280 Speaker 1: is that the the Department of Health in your state 691 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,320 Speaker 1: UM may or may not want to engage in that 692 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: kind of you know, letting people choose which one they'd like. 693 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 1: I laugh only because every family member I have will 694 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 1: be really upset if they don't receive the Materna vaccine. 695 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: But the truth is, like a family all over the country, 696 00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: and I don't think it's going to be possible. UM, 697 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 1: and so uh you will get You will receive a 698 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:07,239 Speaker 1: vaccine UM that's approved from the FDA, that's safe, and 699 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: that's going to provide a benefit. UM. The Department of 700 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 1: Health in your state might make a determination to say 701 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 1: that certain high risk populations we want to get a vaccine. 702 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: It's got a higher faccine like the madern of vaccine UM. 703 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,279 Speaker 1: And if you're healthier, maybe we're gonna give you one 704 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: that has a lower efficacy because you don't need it 705 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,240 Speaker 1: as much. And some of those choices UM may happen 706 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: in terms of how they allocate, but it really did 707 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 1: fall to the departments of health in the states UM 708 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,320 Speaker 1: to determine how to distribute it. I don't think it 709 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: will be a situation where consumers will get to decide 710 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 1: until until everybody has had a chance to get a 711 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 1: vaccine from the federal government, and that maybe next summer, 712 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,800 Speaker 1: at which point maybe people will have the ability to 713 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 1: go to CBS and make their own line. Let me 714 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 1: go through quickly the questions from social media. How long 715 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 1: will the immunity provided by the vaccines last. I'm optimistic 716 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: that we're gonna see immunity last more than a year. UM. 717 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 1: I think a year seems pretty safe at this point. 718 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:02,840 Speaker 1: We don't have a year's where the follow up, but 719 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,480 Speaker 1: we've got six months in some of our studies, and 720 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,800 Speaker 1: it looks like the early data shows that we're achieving 721 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 1: levels of immunity and the blood that we think will 722 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 1: be protective for at least a year. So you're gonna 723 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 1: have to get a shot like this or two shots 724 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:20,240 Speaker 1: every year, potentially like a flu shot. In the worst 725 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,840 Speaker 1: case scenario, you need a booster once a year like 726 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,799 Speaker 1: a flu shot. I think it's unlikely that that's going 727 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 1: to be necessary. And the reason I say that is 728 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:31,239 Speaker 1: when you see vaccines that are this effective in our 729 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,280 Speaker 1: case um and it's really the Fiser and Maderna vaccines 730 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,000 Speaker 1: that I'm talking about that are dis effective. I think 731 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 1: for estras, I think it's a little lower. But when 732 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 1: you see vaccines are effective, that's kind of like your 733 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,440 Speaker 1: measles vaccine or some of the other tetanus vaccines that 734 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,879 Speaker 1: we used to You don't need to get those every year. 735 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: You can go every five years, every ten years, maybe 736 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,439 Speaker 1: even once in your life. And so when you see 737 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: this kind of efficacy, yeah, you know protection if I 738 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,359 Speaker 1: think it allgurs well, it bodes well for the fact 739 00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 1: that maybe you won't need one ever year, maybe every 740 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 1: five year, or maybe only when you end up you know, 741 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: with waning immunity, you get a test to show that 742 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,320 Speaker 1: you have lower immunity in your blood, and you just 743 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,800 Speaker 1: get a booster and maybe once every vidouty Well, the 744 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 1: vaccine prevents spreading of the virus, so we don't know 745 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,160 Speaker 1: for sure yet, but there are hints that it will, 746 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,279 Speaker 1: and so we're optimistic that the vaccine will prevent infections. 747 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,360 Speaker 1: We know from the studies we've run that it prevents disease, 748 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 1: and so that's probably the most important thing. If you 749 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,759 Speaker 1: never get sick, you never have symptoms, you never get hospitalized, 750 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 1: it kind of moved through you and you never knew 751 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,520 Speaker 1: it was there. Um, then maybe it doesn't matter as much. 752 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 1: But the reason is that the studies that we're running, 753 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 1: what we the endpoints that we were counting where when 754 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 1: people got sick, because people could tell you they got sick. 755 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 1: They could call you up and say I'm not feeling well, 756 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:46,839 Speaker 1: and you could test them, and that's how we knew 757 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,279 Speaker 1: that those cases it happen. In order to figure out 758 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 1: what somebody got sick but didn't have an infection what's 759 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,880 Speaker 1: called asymptomatic infection, you actually have to test them at 760 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: regular intervals over time, and so we're gonna bring everybody 761 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 1: back in on the study three months and six months 762 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:05,360 Speaker 1: and twelve months and figure out if they became infected asymptomatically. 763 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,160 Speaker 1: But that takes time, and so we won't really get 764 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,960 Speaker 1: that data until the early part of nature. What are 765 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 1: possible side effects from the vaccine. Well, fortunately there haven't 766 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,959 Speaker 1: been any safety issues in our vaccine, and I haven't 767 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,279 Speaker 1: seen any reporter for the others as well, so that's 768 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,080 Speaker 1: good news. Um, the kinds of side effects therefore the 769 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:26,160 Speaker 1: people are seeing are not really safety, but they're more tolerability. 770 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 1: Think of them as the aches and pains that you 771 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 1: get when you get a vaccine. When when you go 772 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:32,880 Speaker 1: get a flu vaccine, people will say you may have 773 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 1: some muscle aches and pains, joined as some pains, a headache. 774 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:37,920 Speaker 1: You may occasionally rarely have a fever. Those are the 775 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,799 Speaker 1: sorts of things that have been seeing mostly it's been 776 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,360 Speaker 1: a couple of days of duration mild to moderate aches 777 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 1: and pains that you see with many other vaccines. The 778 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,400 Speaker 1: good news on that is those aren't really side effects. 779 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,120 Speaker 1: With the side effects and the way people think about them, 780 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:58,200 Speaker 1: but actually that is your body's immune system getting turned 781 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,360 Speaker 1: on by the proteins in the back scene or the 782 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:02,880 Speaker 1: m morna instruction the vaccine so that it can protect 783 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,399 Speaker 1: you against ours code too. And so while people think 784 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,799 Speaker 1: of that maybe as an adverse event as not something 785 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 1: they want, it's actually a sign that your immune system 786 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,720 Speaker 1: is kicked in and ready to protect you. That brings 787 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: me to my next question. Um, r m RNA vaccines 788 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:23,320 Speaker 1: problematic for people who have automnimmune disease. There's no evidence 789 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,400 Speaker 1: that m MORNA medicines are problematic for autimmune disease. If anything, 790 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,160 Speaker 1: I think they might be safer, although we have to 791 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,080 Speaker 1: see that over time. The reason I'd say that is 792 00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:35,560 Speaker 1: that there there's no viral vector. There's no virus that's 793 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 1: infecting you here, so there's a lot of other proteins, 794 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 1: and a viral vector vaccine like the astrozennicer Johnston johnsons 795 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,400 Speaker 1: that that could do other things to your immune system. 796 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,279 Speaker 1: And similarly, in there were common A protein vaccines, you 797 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,920 Speaker 1: usually give an adjument which you can kick off your 798 00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,719 Speaker 1: immune system UM in a non specific way. In the 799 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,279 Speaker 1: case of the m MORNA vaccines, there's neither of those things. UM, 800 00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,319 Speaker 1: it's really purely the information and so there's a reason 801 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,440 Speaker 1: for optimism it, but there's really no data yet. UM. 802 00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,360 Speaker 1: Certainly there's no evidence that it's it's less safe. I 803 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:09,560 Speaker 1: guess immunotherapy can sometimes put your immune system in and overdrive, 804 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,880 Speaker 1: so can m r NA put your immune system in 805 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,320 Speaker 1: overdrive for certain patients. So it really depends on what 806 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,760 Speaker 1: you're making with the m morna. And the short answer 807 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,960 Speaker 1: for the vaccines is no, because the m morn a 808 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:26,960 Speaker 1: is just making the spike protein the coronavirus, and so 809 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:31,280 Speaker 1: your immune system isn't overdrive against the coronavirus, and only 810 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,360 Speaker 1: we'll get turned on if it sees the coronavirus in 811 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,360 Speaker 1: the future. We do, in the case of cancer vaccines 812 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,360 Speaker 1: or in the case of some of our cancer therapies, 813 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,400 Speaker 1: try and induce an immune response and ramp it up. 814 00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:43,759 Speaker 1: And so there are definitely cases where will express things 815 00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,080 Speaker 1: that will try and kick off your immune system. But 816 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,840 Speaker 1: we do those very different types of things in cancer 817 00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:51,719 Speaker 1: where we're trying to, as you just said, turn on 818 00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:53,719 Speaker 1: the immune system so it starts attacking things. In that case, 819 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,759 Speaker 1: the cancer got it. Okay. What about pregnant women, Dr Hoag, 820 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,759 Speaker 1: So we do need to make sure thevaccine is safe 821 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,480 Speaker 1: and pregnant women. Were in discussions with the FDA right now, 822 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:05,680 Speaker 1: as are the other vaccine developers to figure out the 823 00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:07,399 Speaker 1: best way to do that. There's a couple of ways 824 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,480 Speaker 1: to do it. One is you run a small study. UM. 825 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:11,839 Speaker 1: The other is that you just follow people over time 826 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,440 Speaker 1: who incidentally get pregnant and make sure through like a 827 00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:17,480 Speaker 1: registry that there's no there's no safety issues there. We 828 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,880 Speaker 1: have completed all of the necessary pre clinical work to 829 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,160 Speaker 1: show that there's no reproductive toxicity issues. We believe it's 830 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,440 Speaker 1: going to be safe. UM. But what remains to be 831 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,359 Speaker 1: done is just followed that more carefully and make sure 832 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,480 Speaker 1: that there are no showstopper concerns. Do you feel that 833 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,640 Speaker 1: safety has been compromised because of the speed in which 834 00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:38,759 Speaker 1: these vaccines have been developed? Do not? UM? I think 835 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,800 Speaker 1: actually this has got to be the gold standard for 836 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,400 Speaker 1: how you respond to pandemics in the future. UM. If 837 00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:46,640 Speaker 1: you think about the size of the trials that have 838 00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,920 Speaker 1: been run and the deliberate nature in which they run 839 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:51,800 Speaker 1: through it. We've run through a phase one study, a 840 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,040 Speaker 1: phase to studies six d people. In our Phase three 841 00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 1: study thirty thou people. That's not commonly done for any 842 00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,920 Speaker 1: drug that's approved infect It's a huge number. And if 843 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,560 Speaker 1: you add to that that we did that Advisor did 844 00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,719 Speaker 1: that with thirty thousand, and Astra Zeneca has got there's 845 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:09,759 Speaker 1: going to be hundreds of thousands of people that have 846 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:14,120 Speaker 1: been tested across these vaccine platforms. That's just not precedented. 847 00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,680 Speaker 1: There's not that kind of confidence that we've ever really 848 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,760 Speaker 1: been able to have around new technology, new new drugs, 849 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,759 Speaker 1: new medicines, vaccines in these kings. UM. So I think 850 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,000 Speaker 1: people should take a huge degree of confidence from that. Now, 851 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,080 Speaker 1: we don't have long term follow up. To be fair, 852 00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:31,239 Speaker 1: we do not have two years of history post that vaccine, UM, and, 853 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:33,360 Speaker 1: so we're gonna need to follow that very closely. But 854 00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:39,239 Speaker 1: the overwhelming majority plus percent events that have been seen 855 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,719 Speaker 1: historically with drugs and vaccines happened in the first two 856 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,200 Speaker 1: months after your vaccine, not two years later. UM. And 857 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,120 Speaker 1: when you say you've got that kind of confidence that 858 00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,160 Speaker 1: you've looked really intensively for the first two months, and 859 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,360 Speaker 1: you've got hundreds of thousands of people you've looked in, 860 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:54,440 Speaker 1: I think you can take a lot of confidence. I 861 00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,480 Speaker 1: certainly do, UM. And I don't think that there's been 862 00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:01,360 Speaker 1: any sacrifices on safety. UM. We have moved quickly. I 863 00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,839 Speaker 1: think the biggest risk taken were financial. All the way through. 864 00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,880 Speaker 1: There were billions of dollars of risk taken financially, and 865 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,759 Speaker 1: in that sense, I think the American people and the 866 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,400 Speaker 1: federal government deserve a lot of credit. UM. Congress with 867 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:17,000 Speaker 1: the Cares Act and the administration on warp speed UM, 868 00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:21,400 Speaker 1: I think underwrote, wrote UM. The American people underwrote the 869 00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:23,879 Speaker 1: development of vaccines for the entire world. If you look 870 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:25,960 Speaker 1: at the vaccines that are now getting bought by everybody 871 00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,480 Speaker 1: else that's Japan or Europe or the rest of the world, 872 00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,960 Speaker 1: including in low and middle income countries, it's really it's 873 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,360 Speaker 1: really the six made in the USA and in the USA. 874 00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,759 Speaker 1: And I think while we did it to protect ourselves, 875 00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,880 Speaker 1: it's something that I have been proud of as I've 876 00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:46,120 Speaker 1: watched unfold just as American because UM, we although we 877 00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,960 Speaker 1: didn't participate in the w h O activities and many 878 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,560 Speaker 1: of the things that were multilateral, we did as a 879 00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:56,880 Speaker 1: as a country underwrite the creation of of the solution 880 00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,319 Speaker 1: of the six solutions UM that we think are going 881 00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,800 Speaker 1: to get deployed most broadly across the world, and and 882 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,320 Speaker 1: did it in record time, and relied a lot on 883 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:09,120 Speaker 1: American ingenuity and that you know, the high quality of 884 00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:13,359 Speaker 1: American civil service UH and and workers to to make 885 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:15,719 Speaker 1: this happen. And I think it's something we will look 886 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,640 Speaker 1: back on and and be proud of. Someone asked, if 887 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:22,040 Speaker 1: I get the vaccine, am I protected against COVID even 888 00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:27,640 Speaker 1: if of other people are vaccinated. Yes. So the vaccine 889 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,600 Speaker 1: that we're the studies that we're running are happening in 890 00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,040 Speaker 1: the middle of the pandemic, and so nobody else is vaccinated. UM. 891 00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:38,200 Speaker 1: And so if we're offering protection against COVID in the 892 00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,960 Speaker 1: middle of the pandemic, in very hot areas, UM, you 893 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,000 Speaker 1: can have confidence that even if the people are around 894 00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,600 Speaker 1: you aren't vaccinated, that you will not be getting COVID. 895 00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:48,760 Speaker 1: What we don't know, and I think what's oun denying 896 00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,880 Speaker 1: My question is, UM, will the virus still be passing 897 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,279 Speaker 1: between us? And if you've got vaccinated, maybe you don't 898 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,959 Speaker 1: get sick? Or what about the other people who didn't 899 00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,280 Speaker 1: get baccinated? And in that case, I think the answer 900 00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,240 Speaker 1: is yes, they will probably still be at risk until 901 00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:06,880 Speaker 1: we cross a threshold of people that have been vaccinated 902 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,160 Speaker 1: or have immunity because they were sick, and that's just 903 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:14,600 Speaker 1: because the virus will circulate. Finally, can this virus mutate 904 00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:20,040 Speaker 1: dr hoge and create a new strain of covid COVID 905 00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,360 Speaker 1: one for example, where you're going to have to go 906 00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,799 Speaker 1: back to square one and start all over again. How 907 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,080 Speaker 1: possible is that? Not meaning to to rein on your 908 00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:33,640 Speaker 1: well deserved parade, UM, I think it's the thing that 909 00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:37,239 Speaker 1: should always concern us. UM. Pandemics do happen, and they 910 00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:41,160 Speaker 1: happen at a regular interval. So this virus has evolved, 911 00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:43,600 Speaker 1: it has mutated a little bit during the year of 912 00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:49,880 Speaker 1: this year of UM. Fortunately, the mutations have have not 913 00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,080 Speaker 1: been enough to move away from protection from our vaccines, 914 00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,439 Speaker 1: and I think they won't be UM. If I were 915 00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,080 Speaker 1: to sort of conjecture, I'd say this virus would have 916 00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:02,160 Speaker 1: to make a lot of changes to avoid the vaccines 917 00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:04,120 Speaker 1: that are currently in development, not just the madernal one. 918 00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,920 Speaker 1: That's because we're making the whole spike protein. There are 919 00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,480 Speaker 1: you know, one thousand, seven hundred amino acids little pieces 920 00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:13,520 Speaker 1: of protein on it, and evolution or mutation works one 921 00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,240 Speaker 1: amino acid at a time. So if our immune system 922 00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:19,200 Speaker 1: can recognize all one thousand, seven hundred, you can change 923 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,640 Speaker 1: a few of those meno acids. You're really going to 924 00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:25,120 Speaker 1: have to make whole scale changes hundreds of them before 925 00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:28,640 Speaker 1: it's unrecognizable to the immune system. And the problem with 926 00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:30,919 Speaker 1: that for a virus is the protein has a job 927 00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,200 Speaker 1: to do. It's like a key fitting in a lock. 928 00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:37,000 Speaker 1: You can't make that many changes from a mutation perspective 929 00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,720 Speaker 1: before actually it just stops working, and maybe the virus 930 00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,600 Speaker 1: stops being able to affect you. So I think starts 931 00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:46,320 Speaker 1: COVID too. I'm very optimistic that it's not going to 932 00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:50,279 Speaker 1: mutate around found our vaccines and we're gonna We're gonna 933 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,200 Speaker 1: get through this. Your question that was about COVID twenty one, 934 00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,960 Speaker 1: will there be another coronavirus pandemic? And the answer there 935 00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:00,480 Speaker 1: is almost certainly yes, Probably not this virus, but at 936 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,520 Speaker 1: some point in the decade or hundred years ahead of us, 937 00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:07,120 Speaker 1: a different coronavirus will move out of animals and find 938 00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,440 Speaker 1: its way into humans, and we will have no immunity 939 00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:11,800 Speaker 1: to it, and then we'll be racing again and defeat 940 00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,759 Speaker 1: it again. That is almost inevitable as well. But do 941 00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:18,319 Speaker 1: you think the technology that you all have established will 942 00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:22,319 Speaker 1: help create new vaccines in the future in a much 943 00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:25,800 Speaker 1: more expedited way. I hope. So, I really hope that 944 00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,719 Speaker 1: becomes a long lasting benefit of what we've been through 945 00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:32,120 Speaker 1: in is that governments around the world, including the US, 946 00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,239 Speaker 1: look at the technologies that were most useful and say, well, 947 00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,279 Speaker 1: we did something epic, heroic. We did in one year, 948 00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:40,960 Speaker 1: the thing that nobody thought was possible. Now, let's figure 949 00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:42,799 Speaker 1: out how to do it in six months. Now, let's 950 00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,320 Speaker 1: figure out how we can respond more quickly in the 951 00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,360 Speaker 1: next pandemic. But I think it will be technologies like 952 00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:50,800 Speaker 1: Messenger RNA that are going to be at the center 953 00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:52,480 Speaker 1: of that because because at the end of the day, 954 00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:56,160 Speaker 1: they're so flexible, and so I'm very optimistic that we 955 00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:58,680 Speaker 1: will get better and better at being able to beat 956 00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:02,279 Speaker 1: back pandemics with technology like mess and Journey and others, 957 00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:06,719 Speaker 1: perhaps even the well Dr Hope, Stephen Hope, thank you 958 00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:11,400 Speaker 1: so much. You were awesome. Um really, thank you. I 959 00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:16,439 Speaker 1: understood probably nine d four percent of what. I don't 960 00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,239 Speaker 1: believe that for a second. I'm sure you got it. All. 961 00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,560 Speaker 1: That does it for this bonus episode of Next Question, 962 00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,040 Speaker 1: I'm Katie Couric. Thank you so much for listening, and 963 00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:49,640 Speaker 1: have a very happy and safe holiday season. Next Question 964 00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:52,040 Speaker 1: with Katie Couric is a production of I Heart Radio 965 00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:55,520 Speaker 1: and Katie Kurrik Media. The executive producers are Katie Curic, 966 00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:59,640 Speaker 1: Courtney Litz, and Tyler Klang. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. 967 00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:04,440 Speaker 1: Our show producer is Bethan Macaluso. The associate producers are 968 00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:09,240 Speaker 1: Emily Pinto and Derek Clements. Editing by Derrek Clements, Dylan Fagin, 969 00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:14,120 Speaker 1: and Lowell Berlante, Mixing by Dylan Fagin. Our researcher is 970 00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:18,160 Speaker 1: Gabriel Loser. For more information on today's episode, go to 971 00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:20,920 Speaker 1: Katie Curik dot com and follow us on Twitter and 972 00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:28,040 Speaker 1: Instagram at Katie Currich. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, 973 00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:31,040 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 974 00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:32,680 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.