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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Wait inside from the reporters and

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Speaker 1: editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus

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Speaker 1: global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week

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Speaker 1: Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebek from Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 2: And when we're talking about China being the world's second

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Speaker 2: largest economy, and also when you're looking at Bloomberg Economics,

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Speaker 2: really thinking that when you're thinking at the trajectory of

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Speaker 2: its growth not quite holding up as much as obviously

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Speaker 2: economists we're anticipating. And then also when you're thinking about

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Speaker 2: Tim the liquidity crunch it's going under, when you're thinking

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Speaker 2: about some of those property developers and the pressure that

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Speaker 2: they have been under so significantly, what this could really

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Speaker 2: mean when you're looking at global economic growth and obviously

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Speaker 2: the US economy, which has proven to be pretty resilient.

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Speaker 3: Here, Yeah, just doing a great job of laying out

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Speaker 3: all the challenges when we do look at China, the

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Speaker 3: world's second largest economy, to get an idea of where

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Speaker 3: China's economy is headed in its effect on global growth.

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Speaker 3: I'm very pleased to have with us this afternoon. Leland

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Speaker 3: at Miller CEO at China page book International. Leland joining

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Speaker 3: us on a zoom from Washington, D C. Leland, How

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Speaker 3: are you good?

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Speaker 4: Well?

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Speaker 3: Thank you well, thanks so much for joining us. You

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Speaker 3: might have heard us mentioned earlier this morning that we

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Speaker 3: actually saw Bloomberg Economics cut its long term forecast as

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Speaker 3: the post COVID rebound has run out of steam. This

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Speaker 3: for China, it's pretty remarkable to see this. Just a

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Speaker 3: couple of weeks ago, Carol and I we're talking to

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Speaker 3: some folks who said, you know what, it's no longer

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Speaker 3: a growth story the same way that it has been

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Speaker 3: in China for years, and in fact we could see

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Speaker 3: higher growth here in the US. That's just not something

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Speaker 3: we talked about a few years ago. Where do you fall, Leland?

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Speaker 4: Well, it was something we were talking about for the

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Speaker 4: past ten years, but you know, nobody really wanted to

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Speaker 4: hear about it, because you know, the idea was China

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Speaker 4: was growing at eight percent, or they were going at

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Speaker 4: close to eight percent, and most people didn't really see

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Speaker 4: a reason why the economic magic couldn't continue. The growth

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Speaker 4: model had worked up to that point, why couldn't they

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Speaker 4: still crank out another twenty years at eight percent? I

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Speaker 4: think that was the mindset up until relatively recently when

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Speaker 4: people realize that, look, no one in Beijing is an

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Speaker 4: economic magician anymore than anywhere else in the world. You know,

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Speaker 4: there's subject to the laws of economics. And when they

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Speaker 4: have the system that they have, it's it is structurally

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Speaker 4: pumped up growth for a while, but there's going to

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Speaker 4: be a much more precipitous slowdown on the way down.

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Speaker 4: So I think, first of all, we have to be

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Speaker 4: ready for very for a future of significant slowdown going forward,

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Speaker 4: a structural slowdown. And second, when you're looking at whether

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Speaker 4: the United States can pass, whether China can pass the

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Speaker 4: United States, or whether it does or not, I think

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Speaker 4: that the issue here is that if Chijin pain falls

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Speaker 4: victim to the mindset that he has to pass the

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Speaker 4: United States, and they do everything that's needed in order

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Speaker 4: to pass the United States in GDP growth, then China

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Speaker 4: will be going the wrong direction. I think they'll you know,

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Speaker 4: Sheijin Ping will be reversing some of the stuff he's

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Speaker 4: been doing for the past you know, the past several years.

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Speaker 4: It's caused a lot of you know, pressure on the economy,

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Speaker 4: but has been towards the idea of getting dead under control.

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Speaker 4: So to the extent that China passed the United State,

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Speaker 4: which looks unlikely. It's always looked unlikely. But if it

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Speaker 4: does happen, it means Chi Jinping is doing the wrong things,

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Speaker 4: not the right things.

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Speaker 2: Why is it that the post COVID rebound just didn't hold.

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Speaker 4: That's a great question. I mean, you know, we were

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Speaker 4: very cautious, particularly early in the year, saying, look, there's

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Speaker 4: a lot that China has to get over. You have

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Speaker 4: to break down the COVID zero administrative state. You know,

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Speaker 4: businesses have been frozen in place for a year now.

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Speaker 4: But even we were surprised at how tepid the recovery

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Speaker 4: was in the second quarter. I think it all comes

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Speaker 4: down to confidence. When you look at what's happening in

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Speaker 4: the economy. Firms didn't like what they were coming out of.

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Speaker 4: They didn't know what was happening, and so there wasn't

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Speaker 4: a sense of confidence the economy. If you don't have confidence,

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Speaker 4: then you're not borrowing, you're not hiring, you're not spending.

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Speaker 4: There was some of this, but not enough of it,

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Speaker 4: and so you had a sequential recovery and month to

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Speaker 4: month to month throughout twenty twenty three, but it was

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Speaker 4: nowhere near what people were expecting or hoping for, and

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Speaker 4: so people have become very very despondent on what they're

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Speaker 4: seeing in the economy right now.

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Speaker 3: So Leland, what does this all mean for American investors

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Speaker 3: and American companies that do business or want to do

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Speaker 3: business in China.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think this is, you know, peace by piece.

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Speaker 4: We have been opening the eyes of foreign investors. I mean,

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Speaker 4: you know, a long time ago, it was it was

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Speaker 4: first it was gepolitics, and then it was the trade war,

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Speaker 4: and then it was you know, COVID, and then it

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Speaker 4: was COVID zero, and now it's you know, low growth

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Speaker 4: after COVID zero, and with with the foreign foreign crackdown

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Speaker 4: on business, crackdown on foreign businesses. So there hasn't been

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Speaker 4: one thing that convinced foreign investors, foreign businesses that they

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Speaker 4: had to be more careful about going into China. Maybe

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Speaker 4: they didn't want to go there, maybe they had to

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Speaker 4: pull their supply chains out. It's been incremental, but I

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Speaker 4: think when we got to COVID zero, finally, I think

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Speaker 4: a lot of foreign businesses they just said, enough is enough.

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Speaker 4: We can't operate here. It's not worth it. And you know,

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Speaker 4: we can't be susceptible to having our supply chains severed

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Speaker 4: because somebody decides to do a nationwide lockdown.

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Speaker 3: But so if you're Nike, if you're Disney, you're not

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Speaker 3: gonna throw in the towel. If you're Apple, yeah, sure

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Speaker 3: you're gonna move your supply chains a little bit. I mean,

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Speaker 3: but that company is just so intertwined with China.

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Speaker 4: That's exactly right. So what you're gonna do is you're

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Speaker 4: gonna bifurcate your operations. So you're gonna have a China operations,

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Speaker 4: You're gonna have an X Chine operations that allows you

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Speaker 4: not to have supply chains that are that are tangled up.

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Speaker 4: You produce in China for Chinese consumers, if you think

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Speaker 4: that's a great market, then you stay in there and

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Speaker 4: you need to ramp it up. But if you're if

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Speaker 4: you're mostly ramping up for for for for foreign consumers,

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Speaker 4: maybe you don't run your supply chains through China anymore. So, yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 4: there's companies that don't have that absolutely don't want to

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Speaker 4: pull themselves out of China and won't, but I think

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Speaker 4: they're they're they're changing their approach and how they treat

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Speaker 4: the China part of the equation.

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Speaker 2: How concerned are you about China's property debt crisis.

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Speaker 4: I'll be real provocative here and I'll say I'm not

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Speaker 4: concerned at all. Not that things aren't a mess. I

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Speaker 4: just look, we spent all of August. Everyone supposed to

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Speaker 4: be a VACA. We've spent all of August listening to

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Speaker 4: people say that China's collapsing. Emitt hard Landing. We had

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Speaker 4: a lot of people worried about that, had a lot

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Speaker 4: of notes going out saying, look, China is not collapsing.

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Speaker 4: Here's what's actually happening. It's not that the property sector

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Speaker 4: isn't a mess. The property sector is a mess. You've

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Speaker 4: got a big shadow bank that's wobbling right now in

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Speaker 4: Country Garden, which you had two years ago in Evergrand.

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Speaker 4: It freaked everybody out. A lot of problems the property sector.

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Speaker 4: But China is not a typical economic system. It is

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Speaker 4: a non commercial financial system, which means they're much less

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Speaker 4: susceptible to things like a limit moment, like an acute crisis.

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Speaker 4: So you have the ability to do things in a

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Speaker 4: non commercial financial system you can't do in the West.

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Speaker 4: You can't do in the US can't do in Europe.

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Speaker 4: And so the idea that this is going to create

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Speaker 4: some sort of sense of financial contagion and just roll

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Speaker 4: every everybody over very very unlikely. But it does cause

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Speaker 4: stresses to the system. And I think that it's happening

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Speaker 4: right now because the Chinese government is allowing it to happen.

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Speaker 4: When it starts looking like guess could go out of control,

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Speaker 4: then they step in and and and they ease conditions

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Speaker 4: a bit.

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Speaker 3: What are they going to do in terms of stepping in?

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Speaker 3: I mean, are you talking the question of moral hazard here,

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Speaker 3: like they're not going to let anything fail?

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Speaker 4: Well, I think they want to. They want to. They

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Speaker 4: know that they are creating very very difficult conditions inside

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Speaker 4: the inside the property sector. What they want to keep

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Speaker 4: the problems inside of property. So you want to make

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Speaker 4: sure that financial contagent is it's spreading to other areas

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Speaker 4: of economy. You want to make sure that cash flow

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Speaker 4: doesn't completely freeze up. Uh, And so that's why you're

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Speaker 4: seeing easing measures right now. So, I mean, we have

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Speaker 4: a fiscal activity index we track and monetary stimulus index

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Speaker 4: we track, and we could see that as they are

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Speaker 4: pushing harder on some of these issues, like you know,

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Speaker 4: the resolution on these shadow banks, and and and and

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Speaker 4: as property continues to deteriorate, then they step in and

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Speaker 4: they give it a little bit of juice on the side.

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Speaker 4: And so there is there is a you know, a

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Speaker 4: push and pull on these things. But in terms of

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Speaker 4: a bank, a big shadow bank falling in it causing

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Speaker 4: the system to fall apart in a domino effect like

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Speaker 4: we saw with Lehman, that's not going to happen in China.

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Speaker 2: So what are their corners within the economy have been

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Speaker 2: able to offset those concerns when you're talking about when

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Speaker 2: you're looking at what's happening with the property debt crisis

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Speaker 2: not being as big of an issue as maybe people

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Speaker 2: are thinking at this point.

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Speaker 4: Well, one of the problems is you haven't had real

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Speaker 4: strength anywhere else to compensate. So if the conversation right

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Speaker 4: now is you know, are things going greater are they

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Speaker 4: going not that great? Then a difficult you know, it's

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Speaker 4: a difficult thing to hash out. But you know, luckily

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Speaker 4: for us it's been very easy because the question is

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Speaker 4: is China growing or is it China collapsing? And China's

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Speaker 4: clearly not collapsing. I think the whole thing is ludicrous.

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Speaker 4: That that is the sentiment people have right now. If

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Speaker 4: you look at what's happening in the manufacturing sector, it's

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Speaker 4: actually held up much more impressively this year than we

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Speaker 4: thought it would. You've got enormous headwinds. You're coming off

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Speaker 4: three years of gangbusters growth. It's manufacturings holding its own.

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Speaker 4: Is it doing great? Is it doing twenty twenty two?

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Speaker 5: Low?

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Speaker 4: It's not doing It's not what it was, but it's

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Speaker 4: doing okay. It's not a huge weak point. The consumption

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Speaker 4: parts of the e conoity. We look retail and services,

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Speaker 4: are they doing great?

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Speaker 6: Well?

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Speaker 4: Parts of services are, but overall doing okay, you know,

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Speaker 4: very uneven. So they're not a real bright spot. It's

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Speaker 4: just you know, you're not seeing great stuff out of China.

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Speaker 4: You're not seeing good data, but you're just not seeing

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Speaker 4: anywhere near as negative a story as a lot of

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Speaker 4: people think is happening inside inside the walls of the economy.

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Speaker 3: Well, hey, just before we let you go, Leland, talk

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Speaker 3: about political implications here she as president for life, as

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Speaker 3: said in the past, any political implications in thirty seconds.

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Speaker 4: This is she's show. So we can you know we

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Speaker 4: spend a lot of time talking about how you know,

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Speaker 4: four investors say, oh, Shei Jinping would never do this

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Speaker 4: because dot dot dot. I think after a year of

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Speaker 4: COVID zero we have we should be coming to the

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Speaker 4: conclusion that there is nothing Chijin Ping won't do simply

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Speaker 4: because we don't think he'll do it. It can be

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Speaker 4: very humble in in evaluating where he's taking the economy,

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Speaker 4: and it's in a very different direction than than he

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Speaker 4: ran in the past.

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Speaker 3: All right, we're gonna have to leave it there. Thank

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Speaker 3: you so much for taking the time this afternoon. That's

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Speaker 3: Leland Miller, CEO at China beij International, joining us this

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Speaker 3: afternoon on zoom from Washington, DC.

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Speaker 1: If you're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast, catch

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Speaker 1: us live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen

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Speaker 1: on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business App, or watch us live on YouTube ZIM.

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Speaker 2: We all know how much AI is all the hype.

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Speaker 3: I mean, just look different. Vidia is here to date

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Speaker 3: increase of two hundred percent or.

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Speaker 2: More exactly, though questions do remain about what this all

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Speaker 2: means for cybersecurity, particularly in the workplace, especially since generative

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Speaker 2: AI applications continue to evolve. So we have Dana simbercov

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Speaker 2: chief Risk, Privacy and Information Security Officer at a Point,

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Speaker 2: joining us on Zoom from New Hampshire to explain why

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Speaker 2: the cybersecurity industry isn't ready for the AI boom and

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Speaker 2: what guardrails companies should use to protect their employees. Dana,

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Speaker 2: thanks so much for joining us. As always, I want

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Speaker 2: to get your thoughts on that because when we are discussing,

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Speaker 2: like Tim and myself about this AI boom, why is

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Speaker 2: it that cybersecurity companies may not be ready for this

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Speaker 2: just yet.

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Speaker 6: Well, thanks Jess and Tim for having me this afternoon.

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Speaker 6: Great to be with you. I think AI is just

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Speaker 6: yet another obstacle in the road to looking for that

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Speaker 6: perfect security solution that just doesn't exist out there. Honestly, so,

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Speaker 6: artificial intelligence and sort of the leap learning that is

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Speaker 6: coming through technologies like that GBT really puts cyber professionals

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Speaker 6: on edge because this is just one more ripple in

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Speaker 6: the world we live in where cyber professionals have to

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Speaker 6: be right one hundred percent of the time and bad

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Speaker 6: guys only have to be right once in order to

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Speaker 6: get inside of your defenses.

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Speaker 3: And there's a shortage of bad guys out there, Dana,

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Speaker 3: as we as we certainly know. So what's the worst

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Speaker 3: case scenario here? I mean, describe for us what kind

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Speaker 3: of keeps you up at night, makes you scared.

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Speaker 6: Well, I think that really the secret to building a

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Speaker 6: good program and addressing this is really to go back

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Speaker 6: to cyber hygiene basics, doing what we do every day,

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Speaker 6: which is making sure that we have good data governance

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Speaker 6: in place within our companies and across our partner ecosystems.

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Speaker 6: Because if you know what information you're handling, if you

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Speaker 6: know what it is, where it is, who can access it,

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Speaker 6: and how it's being shared, then you can largely mitigate

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Speaker 6: some of the risks that are associated with AI. So

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Speaker 6: at the end of the day, it does oh no, continue, Well,

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Speaker 6: I was just going to say, at the end of

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Speaker 6: the day, it does come down to people, policy and technology.

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Speaker 6: So there really is no bad technology, just bad use

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Speaker 6: of technology.

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Speaker 2: And when you're talking about cybersecurity, are there particular sub

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Speaker 2: industries or companies that you think might potentially be more

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Speaker 2: vulnerable than others?

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Speaker 6: Well, I certainly think that the ability for or again

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Speaker 6: those malicious bad actors to use AI to potentially perpetrate cybercrime,

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Speaker 6: take advantage of insiders inside of a company to really

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Speaker 6: accelerate the process of cyber attacks. We've already seen through

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Speaker 6: phishing and smishing, where somebody receives a phone call or

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Speaker 6: a text message saying that they are an executive that

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Speaker 6: need help right away. Just imagine that amplified with the

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Speaker 6: ability to actually, you know, fake person over video, these

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Speaker 6: deep fakes that we've been hearing about where a person's

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Speaker 6: image or voice could be easily replicated data.

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Speaker 3: You said phishing. We all know about phishing. Did you

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Speaker 3: say smishing?

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Speaker 6: Smishing, Yes, that's smishing is using a text message or

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Speaker 6: some kind of social media. So whether it's WhatsApp, your phone,

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Speaker 6: or you know, just pretending to be somebody that you're

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Speaker 6: not and using technology to get to an intended target.

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Speaker 6: And this is really common. We see it a lot

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Speaker 6: both inside of our company is you know, as we

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Speaker 6: build our own cyber defenses, but also across our customer ecosystem,

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Speaker 6: where it really isn't just what you know, but who

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Speaker 6: you are that makes you a target potentially within a company.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't know that what it was. That's what

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Speaker 3: it was called. We had a great cover story an

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Speaker 3: excerpt from Zeke Fox's forthcoming book Number Go Up that

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Speaker 3: talked all about where those text messages actually come from.

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Speaker 3: I also encourage everybody listening who's interested to go check

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Speaker 3: that one out. It was just a couple of weeks ago. Okay, So, Dana,

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Speaker 3: what about when it comes to I mean, when I

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Speaker 3: think about the worst case scenario, I mean, I understand, like,

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Speaker 3: I consider myself pretty savvy when it comes to, uh

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Speaker 3: not answering those phishing emails, And we certainly get trained

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Speaker 3: pretty well here at Bloomberg, and I think a lot

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Speaker 3: of companies do that in this day and age.

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Speaker 2: Even do some trick emails at times just to see

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Speaker 2: if we get caught.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they do. You got to you got to be vigilant.

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Speaker 3: I think my concern though, is is is how generative

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Speaker 3: AI sort of changes that, and it makes it so

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Speaker 3: it's like really not possible to distinguish what is real

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Speaker 3: and what isn't real. So so let's say that the

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Speaker 3: weakest link is always the person. Where do companies like

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Speaker 3: afpoint come in to try to stop that from happening?

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Speaker 6: Well, I think at the end of the day, it

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Speaker 6: really is going to come down to not only identity,

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Speaker 6: but also technology and what we allow individuals to do.

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Speaker 6: So just in the same way we've been talking over

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Speaker 6: the last really couple of years with COVID about now

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Speaker 6: the borderless office, where employees are working really from anywhere

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Speaker 6: in the world, they're home, Starbucks, you know, the office.

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Speaker 6: That means that there's no perimeter around the office that

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Speaker 6: you can protect, and so identity really has become that

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Speaker 6: new perimeter to a great extent, and making sure that

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Speaker 6: you know who you're talking to and who you are

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Speaker 6: is going to be critical. And limiting the ability for

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Speaker 6: somebody to move either horizontally or vertically within a company

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Speaker 6: if they are impersonated, is going to really help sort

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Speaker 6: of fill that gap and protect against that kind of risk.

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Speaker 2: We actually did hear from z Scaler after the bell.

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Speaker 2: They did report earnings and there are forecasts for EPs

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Speaker 2: to beat estimates. But of course, when it comes to

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Speaker 2: a cloud cybersecurity company like this, and I have to

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Speaker 2: note it stocks up more than five percent, and after

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Speaker 2: I was treating how does cloud play into this? And

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Speaker 2: when it comes to AI as well, in some of

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Speaker 2: your concerns.

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Speaker 6: Well, cloud is both an opportunity and a risk. That

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Speaker 6: certainly a point as a as a cloud first company

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Speaker 6: providing services to you know, millions of our customers around

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Speaker 6: the world, takes advantage of a lot of the build

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Speaker 6: in security controls that exist through our partners like Microsoft

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Speaker 6: and others. There's also real opportunity with AI and the

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Speaker 6: cloud to benefit from you know, the kind of machine

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Speaker 6: learning and intelligence that could also be used to fight cybercrime.

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Speaker 6: So I think there are tremendous opportunities that the cloud

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Speaker 6: brings a really at the end of the day at

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Speaker 6: somebody else's computer, and so that good data hygiene data

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Speaker 6: governance is going to be critical to making sure that

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Speaker 6: whether you're in the cloud or on premise, that you're

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Speaker 6: really doing the right things to protect your business and

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Speaker 6: your data.

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Speaker 3: Is there a future for on premise or is it

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Speaker 3: all in the cloud?

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Speaker 6: Well, hard to say. I think, you know, the cloud

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Speaker 6: is certainly the future. It's it's the wave, it's the

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Speaker 6: direction that we see companies moving more and more. I

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Speaker 6: think that there will likely always be some hybrid environments

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Speaker 6: and depending on your industry, depending on the kind of

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Speaker 6: information you have, cloud is not always possible, but we'll see.

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Speaker 7: Now.

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Speaker 6: You never say never, and I think it's always good

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Speaker 6: to head your bets.

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Speaker 2: Whenever you speak to companies, what is their biggest concern

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Speaker 2: right now?

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Speaker 6: Well, again, I think it is knowing where that data is.

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Speaker 6: It's that unknown, that risk of not knowing is never better.

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Speaker 6: And so you know, the challenge for AI is clearly

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Speaker 6: that you can have a machine outpacing you rapidly. We

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Speaker 6: now see that our computers regularly are asking us to

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Speaker 6: prove that we're human by answering thinks like captures when

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Speaker 6: you go to websites, Will computers outpace humans at some point? Maybe?

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Speaker 6: I think again, for cybersecurity and privacy professionals, it's building

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Speaker 6: accounted into the way that we use data, making sure

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Speaker 6: that there's good transparency with our customers, and making sure

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Speaker 6: that we're really, you know, doing the right thing to

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Speaker 6: maximize the opportunity for businesses to do what they should

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Speaker 6: be doing while protecting the rights of individuals and data subjects.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, just do you have any ever have

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Speaker 3: a problem with those captures. I feel like they're they're

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Speaker 3: already the captures have already outsmarted me. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 3: what I'm talking about. Write those things.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, come on, I.

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Speaker 2: Mean, I mean, I honestly like one time I got

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Speaker 2: one of those Bloomberg emails and accidentally clicked it on something.

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Speaker 2: Then I had to go back through and do all

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Speaker 2: of the training. So I'm super vigilant now.

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Speaker 3: And not to busted. You only make that mistake once.

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Speaker 2: I know, exactly, so never again after doing that.

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Speaker 6: Well, that's that's good. That's good hyber training.

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Speaker 2: It really is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we have we have some pretty uh you know,

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Speaker 3: and you gotta it takes a while to do those

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Speaker 3: trainings too. Exactly for the last day, Dana, I'll tell

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Speaker 3: you that Data Simberkoff really appreciate you taking the time.

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Speaker 3: She's chief Risk, Privacy and Information Security officer at a

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Speaker 3: point joining us on Zoom from New Hampshire this afternoon.

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Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of questions about what the

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Speaker 3: future of sort of the hybrid cloud is, Jess, And

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Speaker 3: you know whether or not what's on premise and what's

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Speaker 3: not on premise, especially with the multinational companies where those

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Speaker 3: servers are based. You see that certainly with you know,

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Speaker 3: tech companies that right you know, required to co locate

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Speaker 3: servers in certain countries and then those servers and that

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Speaker 3: information is under the jurisdiction of that area, so it

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Speaker 3: gets really complicated.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us

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Speaker 1: live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern on Bloomberg Radio,

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business App, and YouTube. You can also listen

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Speaker 1: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station,

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Speaker 1: Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 7: Tim.

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Speaker 2: As you know we discussed earlier in Today's Big Take

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Speaker 2: with Bloomberg's Matt Boyle, workers in Asia and Europe have

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Speaker 2: largely returned to offices at a faster pace then their

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Speaker 2: American counterparts more than three years after COVID shifted corporate life. Now,

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Speaker 2: US employers are demanding a workplace reset, and they want

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Speaker 2: it now on everything from action on societal issues and

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Speaker 2: work life boundaries per Edelman's latest trust Barometer reports. So

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Speaker 2: who better to walk us through this latest report back

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Speaker 2: with us again is Richard Edelman's chief executive officer at

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Speaker 2: the firm, who is joining us on zoom in New

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Speaker 2: York City to discuss these latest fightings. Thanks so much

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Speaker 2: Richard for chatting with us again. Walk us through what

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Speaker 2: you think are the biggest takeaways from these latest figures

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Speaker 2: that you have.

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Speaker 7: I think the first important finding is that my employer

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Speaker 7: is substantially trusted more than any other institution. So trust

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Speaker 7: is local in my CEO and in my company's ability

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Speaker 7: to make change twenty five points higher than the other institution,

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Speaker 7: sixty points higher than government in terms of ethics. The

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Speaker 7: second big finding is the trust gap for so called

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Speaker 7: deustless workers. In other words, people who are either on

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Speaker 7: the factory floor are operating as sort of independent contractors,

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Speaker 7: they have substantially less trust in institutions. The third big finding,

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Speaker 7: which you led the broadcast with, is workers want a reset.

436
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,560
Speaker 7: Two thirds of people say I want to change my

437
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,640
Speaker 7: work life balance. This is a three years after COVID

438
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:23,400
Speaker 7: kind of reaction saying, you know, I'm not so fast, folks.

439
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 3: Are they? Richard still in control though? I mean, yes,

440
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,000
Speaker 3: we're still adding over one hundred thousand jobs each month

441
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,640
Speaker 3: here in the United States, but we're not hearing from

442
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,680
Speaker 3: executives to the same extent that we were in the

443
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 3: last couple of years how much trouble they're having finding

444
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 3: employees who's in the driver's seed.

445
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 7: So employees think that they are because they're saying, by

446
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,639
Speaker 7: six to one, seven to one, I want my CEO

447
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 7: to speak up on societal issues. I expect that, in fact,

448
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,879
Speaker 7: you're going to listen to me when I want to

449
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 7: make change. I expect in a sense sort of a

450
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:02,679
Speaker 7: partnership as opposed to a class employer employee relationship. But

451
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,120
Speaker 7: this is being sorted out because the employer has the

452
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,639
Speaker 7: tightrope also of don't get into politics and you know,

453
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 7: be careful on especially in the US, on steering clear

454
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,240
Speaker 7: of you know, electro politics or you know, things that

455
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 7: will get you into trouble.

456
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:25,120
Speaker 2: When you're talking about work life boundaries, what specifically are

457
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 2: employees looking for.

458
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,159
Speaker 7: Employees are looking for, in a sense, a new compact

459
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 7: that says you'll listen to me, you'll come visit me

460
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:36,920
Speaker 7: on the factory floor and get my input.

461
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:38,399
Speaker 3: In fact, the.

462
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:45,440
Speaker 7: Deskless worker who actually feels very disconnected is connected if

463
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 7: the company trusts them, so that that matter of going

464
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 7: out and listening. But also we want to hear in

465
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 7: the halls of power the voice of our CEO expressing

466
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 7: our views.

467
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,919
Speaker 3: Does this change based on the type of industry that

468
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,400
Speaker 3: the company's in, like you know, if you're working for

469
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 3: one company and in one sector versus a company and

470
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:11,679
Speaker 3: another sector, is it is it different?

471
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 7: I think in tech and financial services it's sort of

472
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:22,879
Speaker 7: the counter positions. But where financial companies are really ordering

473
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:27,120
Speaker 7: employees back. The CEOs of tech companies because they have

474
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 7: you know, talents and or remote programmers theoretically can work solo.

475
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 3: But sorry, Richard, I mean in terms of trust.

476
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 7: But what we found in our own company, trust is

477
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 7: made up of four things ability, dependability, integrity, and purpose

478
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,199
Speaker 7: and the ability to come together in the office I

479
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 7: think gives some sense of culture and also some sense

480
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 7: of shared purpose. So you know, we're encouraging the hybrid structure,

481
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 7: and several of our clients are following suit.

482
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 2: Huh, Tim and I have been discussing a lot this

483
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,119
Speaker 2: afternoon with this theme about especially when we're talking about

484
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 2: the US and employers trying to get their employees back

485
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 2: into the office. What do you think is the catalyst

486
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,880
Speaker 2: that change? That is that a potential because we don't

487
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 2: see a recession on the horizon, but at a particular

488
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 2: point in the business cycle, if you do see that

489
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 2: shift with the slowing economy and then job cuts are

490
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 2: coming is that the shift that employers think could potentially

491
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 2: shift the power there.

492
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 7: The power struggle is a standoff, and the smart company

493
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 7: will find a way between and move gradually if that's

494
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 7: the direction. But what employees really want is to feel

495
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 7: as if they're getting value from their employer, that the

496
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 7: employer's listening, that it's not going to go back to

497
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 7: the pre twenty twenty method of talk down to me.

498
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 7: I want to be represented, I want to be heard.

499
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 7: I want to feel as if I'm making change. By

500
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 7: eight to one, people say I'm prepared to come to

501
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 7: work for a company if that company stands up on

502
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 7: human rights, or on sustainability, or on race and diversity.

503
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 7: So that matters.

504
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 3: So when it comes to thinking about what this what

505
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 3: the takeaways are for leaders who are listening to our program,

506
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 3: who are watching our program right now, you what have

507
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:14,199
Speaker 3: you learned in the years that you've been doing the

508
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 3: trust barometer and how it's changed, because I got to

509
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 3: tell you, you know, last couple times we've had you on

510
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 3: it's been similar findings, Richard, that the company is the

511
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 3: one where people, you know, people trust as an institution

512
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 3: more than government. So what's the big takeaway for executives listening.

513
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 7: My employer is so much more trusted than any other institution.

514
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 7: There are huge expectations of you in satisfying what an

515
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 7: employee wants from a societal point of view, work life balance.

516
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 7: It's complicated by the reality of politics in today's world.

517
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,120
Speaker 7: So I would identify the three or four key issues

518
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 7: on which I'm going to speak which have to do

519
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 7: with your own values and your core competencies, and they're

520
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 7: probably in the area of sustainability, diversity and inclusion, geopolitics

521
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 7: when it matters like getting out of Russia, and lastly

522
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 7: wages and reskilling. On the other issues, talk with your employees,

523
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 7: talk internally, but be careful about what you say in

524
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 7: a public sense as an advocate, because again you'll get

525
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 7: right into the R versus D and the differences could

526
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:21,719
Speaker 7: not be more stark.

527
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's certainly an area where I mean, you know,

528
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 3: you don't want to bring that up when you're with

529
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 3: new people you meet her or in the workplace. Right

530
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 3: religion and politics, right topics. Richard Edelman, we love it

531
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 3: when you joined us CEO of Edelman joining us on

532
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,439
Speaker 3: Zoom from New York City. Some really interesting findings in

533
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 3: this and you know we have Richard join us. We

534
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 3: haven't joined us. Several times a year often he joins

535
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 3: us from Davos where he is the World Economic Forum,

536
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 3: and you know, talking to these leaders, Jess, who are

537
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 3: making these decisions about the ways that they run their business.

538
00:26:55,440 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: The journal. No, no, no, j honey, Please, I'll travel.

539
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 4: I want to drive.

540
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 5: It's good question.

541
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 3: This is the drive to the clothes.

542
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: On Bloemberg Radio.

543
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 3: Well, it is that time time for us to drive

544
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 3: to the clothes. We are just shy at eighteen minutes

545
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 3: until the US markets closed here in New York. Very

546
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 3: please to add back with us this afternoon. Abbe Deschaponde,

547
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 3: Founder and chief investment Officer at center Stone Investors. Abbe

548
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 3: joining us on zoom from New York City. Abbe, how

549
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:36,439
Speaker 3: are you.

550
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 5: I'm doing well. Unfortunately summer's over.

551
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 3: But is it? Though it's still so hot and it

552
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 3: doesn't seem like everyone's back to work, does it? Is

553
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 3: this summer over?

554
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 7: Oh?

555
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 3: Covid era, right, yeah, exactly. We've talked a lot about

556
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 3: that this afternoon.

557
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 2: Uh.

558
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 3: Hey, we love talking to you because you always come

559
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 3: with some great picks. We're gonna get to those in

560
00:27:58,080 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 3: just a minute. But first I want to start with

561
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 3: with Mac because you're kind of in a different different camp.

562
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 3: You're not really talking about a soft landing. You argue

563
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 3: that a mild recession could be coming.

564
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean very functionally similar though. I mean I'm

565
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 5: not looking for like a huge two thousand and eight

566
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 5: or nine or even twenty twenty ish decline and economic activity.

567
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 5: But I mean it's hard to argue that with the

568
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 5: kinds of interest rate changes that we've had and the

569
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 5: wild sort of spending spree that we were on that

570
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 5: that there shouldn't be a period of retrenchment. I think

571
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 5: there definitely will be, seems to be already started, have

572
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 5: already started. But whether that evolves into something, you know,

573
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 5: that's the end of the world, I just don't believe it.

574
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 5: But I guess, as a famous person once said, the

575
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 5: future is uncertain.

576
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 2: So what would be the catalyst to have growth slow down?

577
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 2: I'm looking at the ECFC function in the tournament that

578
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 2: obviously looks at the aggregate for economists, and they don't

579
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 2: have a quarter of for quarter contraction anymore for the

580
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 2: remaining quarters this year.

581
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 5: So so this is one of the issues is that

582
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 5: when we talk about the economy we're talking about. You know, well,

583
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 5: in the United States, a twenty trillion dollars behemoth. Economies

584
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 5: are adaptable, they're you know, they're that they're they're dynamic organisms, right,

585
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 5: So it's very rare for the entire economy just to

586
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 5: just implode. It's just too big. They're twenty pieces and

587
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 5: to twenty slices. So what we're I think the nuances

588
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 5: parts of the economy can slow down enough to give

589
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 5: the impression of a from a macro standpoint, a slowdown

590
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 5: that would qualify as a recession. That would be like

591
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 5: a zero percent, you know kind of growth rate. Where

592
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 5: where I have trouble, like most people seeing a major

593
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 5: problem is you know, is employment. Well that really turn

594
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 5: out with all these shortages and labor shortages we've had

595
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 5: we have, it's hard to see like a huge, uh,

596
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 5: you know, labor problem. And then at the same time,

597
00:29:58,400 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 5: you have a lot of stimulus and a lot of

598
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 5: the that five hundred billion dollars really hasn't gone through

599
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 5: the system yet from the i RA. So there's plenty

600
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 5: of stimulus. There's you know, the at least fiscal stimulus.

601
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 5: The monetary stimulus has obviously been tightened. But I mean,

602
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 5: you know, anecdotally many many, if not most, households refinanced

603
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 5: at very low rates just just a couple of years ago.

604
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 5: I mean, there's there's not as much of a direct

605
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 5: impact like this was a four or five year economic cycle.

606
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 5: I think interest rates would have much more of a

607
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 5: kind of impact. But households are turned out where it's

608
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 5: where you can see the slowdown occurring. It's in this

609
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 5: it's in the lower end. And we see this, and

610
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 5: you know the results from companies like a Dollar General,

611
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 5: which we recently began to purchase, where that consumer is

612
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 5: hurting from the interest rate increases. But you know, it's

613
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 5: a smaller segment. It's a lot of people obviously, but

614
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 5: it's a smaller segment for me as a proportion of

615
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 5: the total you know, spend in the economy. But you know,

616
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 5: you can definitely see that there's there's slow down here

617
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 5: and there. It's just I don't and most people probably

618
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 5: don't believe that there's going to be a direct hit

619
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 5: to the entire economy. Those types of you know, where

620
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 5: the economy quote unquote like uniformly succumbs to weakness, that's

621
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,959
Speaker 5: that tends to be led by a financial you know issue,

622
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 5: you know, like a banking crisis like we had fifteen

623
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 5: years ago.

624
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 3: Just what about what about a regional banking crisis?

625
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 5: I mean I had had an issue for a brief

626
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 5: moment of time in that region. But I was just

627
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 5: talking to some mortgage brokers the other day, and the

628
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 5: banks are lending. The banks are lending freely, even to

629
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 5: the distressed homeowners for doing the home equity by lines

630
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 5: of credit, for instance, to pay off higher interest car loans.

631
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 5: I mean people are getting by somehow.

632
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 3: Okay, I'll be I want to talk about some of

633
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 3: the picks that that you brought with you. I want

634
00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 3: to start with a company that I don't get to

635
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 3: tell about much, but I'm a cyclist and I saw

636
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 3: Shamano on your list and some people might know it

637
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 3: as a fishing tackle company, some as a bicycle component manufacturer.

638
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 3: Why is Shamano one of your picks?

639
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 5: You know, that's the like. So a lot of companies

640
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 5: went through COVID and had a huge you know, biking

641
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 5: became very popular during COVID because of an outdoor activity,

642
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,239
Speaker 5: and so that a big spike in demand. And now

643
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 5: you're seeing the other side of that. You know a

644
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 5: lot of businesses have too much inventory. Retailers have a

645
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 5: lot of inventory a lot of different things, and especially bikes.

646
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 5: So there is a you know, this this issue kind

647
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 5: of cycling through quote unquote the industry, and Shamano's not

648
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 5: immune to that. Now that said, Chamano's a one of

649
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 5: really two brands in their space. They kind of more

650
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 5: or less dominate the bike parts business. These are derailers,

651
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 5: brake parts and things that you see in a bicycle,

652
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 5: and typically people suspect the bike with the parts. The

653
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 5: parts are actually more important than the bike in a

654
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 5: lot of cases. So it's a it's a branded good,

655
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 5: it's a it's a franchise. And where there's been technological

656
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 5: development like electronics, shifting, shifting and whatnot, no, Shamano's led that.

657
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 5: So to me, it has all the hallmarks of a franchise.

658
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 5: And in addition, which is somewhat still unusual for Japanese businesses,

659
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 5: they're very shared work oriented. They buy back stock, they

660
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 5: be a dividend, They understand what intrinsic value is for

661
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 5: their own business. And as a consequence, we have a

662
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 5: great deal of faith and management to be able to

663
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 5: manage through this type of cycle, and since it's a franchise,

664
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 5: we're more than willing to give them time.

665
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 2: We have about a minute left. But Ryanair and Porsche

666
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 2: also on your list. What do you like about them?

667
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 5: Well, right here, these are both I'll tyke yiner first.

668
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 5: Or like Shamano, is a brand is a brand?

669
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 4: Uh?

670
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 5: Now? Unlike Shimano, Ryanair's developed their brand by being the

671
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 5: lowest cost provider and basically commodity industry, which is airlines.

672
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 5: And they've done that by logging in gates and routes

673
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 5: to two airports that are off set out the outside

674
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 5: the city center. And they've done that and have been

675
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 5: able to provide the lowest cost airline ticket for for

676
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,919
Speaker 5: European travelers. That's a business that, because of the cost

677
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 5: advantages that they have, seems to gain market share every

678
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 5: time there's a weakness, and then when things rebound, they

679
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:38,280
Speaker 5: have emerged with greater number of gates and their routes expand.

680
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 5: As a results, they just continue to gain market share.

681
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 5: As much as you can be a franchise in the

682
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 5: airline industry, they've got them and it's very unlikely that

683
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 5: anyone can displace them. So let's you know prime the

684
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 5: primary reasons and again good management, good business model, and

685
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 5: the balance sheet is very solid to They own all

686
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 5: the airplanes, which gives me se comfort. They're not sitting

687
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 5: their releasing them.

688
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 3: We love it when you join us. That's Bish Bonde

689
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 3: joining us from Centerstone Investors. He's the founder in CIO

690
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 3: at the company. Joining us on zoom from New York City.

691
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Business Week podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,

692
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,240
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693
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,880
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694
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,239
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695
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,359
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696
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,680
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