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Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting because I actually had my my

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Speaker 1: annual mammogram an ultrasound a few weeks ago, and they

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Speaker 1: found a mask and that had to be worked up.

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Speaker 1: So far it's okay, but I literally was just like

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Speaker 1: thinking to myself, Oh my goodness, like all of the

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Speaker 1: thoughts going went through my head, like my kids, my will,

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Speaker 1: like all of this stuff, and just thinking about like

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Speaker 1: what my mom was going through when she was sick

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Speaker 1: and when she was ill, right, and just thinking like

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Speaker 1: I really have to take care of myself, like I

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Speaker 1: really take care of myself. You know, everything's go'na be fine,

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Speaker 1: but just like recognizing you know that you know we're not.

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Speaker 2: Always going to be healthy.

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Speaker 1: Things will come up, but you know, really living in

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Speaker 1: your purpose and taking care of yourself, thinking to myself,

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness.

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Speaker 3: Hey be a fan, what's up. It's Mandy Money.

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Speaker 4: I am so honored to introduce the guests on today's episode.

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Speaker 3: At this point they've left.

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Speaker 4: I just love us so much to be able to

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Speaker 4: come to this show and have conversations with women who

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Speaker 4: are so damn rare. I know, we all hope that

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Speaker 4: these women will become less rare. There won't be a

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Speaker 4: day in the future where we only make up less

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Speaker 4: than ten percent of physicians in America and less than

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Speaker 4: like three percent of black female physicians in America, and

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Speaker 4: where the health outcomes for us or just y'all know,

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Speaker 4: you don't need me to harp on it. You know

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Speaker 4: the research statistics how poorly our outcomes can be in

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Speaker 4: this country when it comes to healthcare, and how important

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Speaker 4: it is for us to advocate for one another. And

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Speaker 4: I'm joined today by two powerhouses, doctor U. J. Blackstock,

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Speaker 4: the author of the New York Times best selling book Legacy,

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Speaker 4: a Black Physician Reckons with Racism in Medicine, and doctor

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Speaker 4: Jessica M. Shepherd, Doctor Jessica M. Shepherd, who is the

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Speaker 4: chief medical officer of Hymns and Hers. She has her

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Speaker 4: own practice, her own gynecological practice, and she is the

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Speaker 4: author of pretty much the handbook to perry menopause and

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Speaker 4: to men pause. So I'll be gifting this book to

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Speaker 4: basically anyone in my world, and I think you should too,

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Speaker 4: who is a woman, because we're all.

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Speaker 3: Going to go through this at some point, right. So

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Speaker 3: her book is called.

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Speaker 4: Generation M Living Well in Perimonopause and Menopause, And these

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Speaker 4: books are very different, and it's a privilege to even

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Speaker 4: have these two women show up in the same space

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Speaker 4: with one another. I was really excited to hear that

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Speaker 4: neither of them had met in person before like they were.

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Speaker 3: Of course we're.

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Speaker 4: Aware of each other in the same space, but hadn't

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Speaker 4: actually been interviewed with the same platform. So it's cool

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Speaker 4: that they got together, that they got to share and

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Speaker 4: be in community with one another. But yeah, these are

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Speaker 4: two very different books. I would say Generation M is

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Speaker 4: like the handbook that you want on your night in

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Speaker 4: your nightstands war. I don't care if you're twenty seven,

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Speaker 4: you're fifty seven, you want to have this book handy

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Speaker 4: when it comes to entering the later stages of our years.

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Speaker 4: And really, for me, it's like the guidebook that I

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Speaker 4: know I'm going to be turning to when anything changes

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Speaker 4: with my reproductive health as I get older. I'm in

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Speaker 4: my mid thirties now. I know a lot of our listeners. Listen, y'all,

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Speaker 4: we're between like twenty five to fifty. I feel like

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Speaker 4: so some of y'all are at various points in your journey.

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Speaker 4: But this book Generation M such an amazing tool. She's

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Speaker 4: got practical tips on lifestyle changes that we can make,

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Speaker 4: because not everything is about getting injected with hormones, although

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Speaker 4: of course she gets into that and debunks some of

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Speaker 4: the most harmful myths about hormone replacement therapy as it

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Speaker 4: pertains to menopause, but also just talks about like the

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Speaker 4: real lifestyle shifts we could be making every day so

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Speaker 4: that we can go through these changes and have it

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Speaker 4: not have such a detrimental impact on our health or

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Speaker 4: overall health outcomes. And what I've learned from Generation M

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Speaker 4: her book is that menopause is going to happen to

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Speaker 4: so many of us, right, but some of the symptoms

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Speaker 4: of menopause, the sleeplessness, for example, is a big contributor

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Speaker 4: to like there's like a cascading effect where if we're

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Speaker 4: not able to get our sleep, then that leads to

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Speaker 4: weight gain, which can put us at higher risk for

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Speaker 4: chronic conditions like heart disease and can make it harder

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Speaker 4: to control diabetes, like high blood pressure can be in issues.

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Speaker 4: And then obviously our moods, how many of us can

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Speaker 4: become like so dysregulated and find it so hard to

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Speaker 4: cope with everyday situations and challenges because we're just genuinely

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Speaker 4: not getting enough sleep and we're uncomfortable because we have

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Speaker 4: these hot flashes, or we have pain and cramping and

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Speaker 4: like all these symptoms. And if we don't have holistic

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Speaker 4: health care, if we're not really advocating for ourselves and

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Speaker 4: getting the support that we need to get through this phase,

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Speaker 4: how it can actually continue. Like you know, osteoporosis is

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Speaker 4: even linked to an undermanaged or menopause in some places,

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Speaker 4: So like we really need to be on top of this,

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Speaker 4: And this is the book that I would get for

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Speaker 4: any woman in my life. I also feel like, if

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Speaker 4: you're a daughter, which so many of us are, talk

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Speaker 4: to your mom about what she went through, and it

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Speaker 4: may take a few tries, like my own mother, Like

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Speaker 4: sometimes I'm like still putting the pieces together. I'm like, Mom,

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Speaker 4: did you do hormone replacement therapy when it was your menopause?

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Speaker 4: Was that when I was in college? Like what was happening?

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Speaker 4: And there's a lot to be learned. But I just

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Speaker 4: feel like we are privileged to be this generation where

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Speaker 4: we're actually going to have elders who can teach us

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Speaker 4: something and can make it like remove some of the

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Speaker 4: stigma and just make us more aware of what can

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Speaker 4: happen so that we can actually own this transition. Like

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Speaker 4: there's a stat in her book that she shares that women,

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Speaker 4: we're gonna live forty percent of our lives postmenopausal. That's

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Speaker 4: a lot of life left to live, so to have

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Speaker 4: the best shot at having a healthy, happy life. Like,

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Speaker 4: there's some changes and habits we can be adopting now

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Speaker 4: that can ensure that we can go through that change

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Speaker 4: and come out the other side and still live and

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Speaker 4: be strong and healthy and show up for ourselves, our communities,

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Speaker 4: all the things. And now, doctor Blackstock, this is a

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Speaker 4: special one. Her book Legacy a Black Physician reckons with

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Speaker 4: racism and medicine. So doctor Blackstock's book, well, I would

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Speaker 4: say doctor Shepherd's book is more on the here's what

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Speaker 4: you can do, and here are the steps, and here

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Speaker 4: are the symptoms and all of that. Doctor Blackstock's book

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Speaker 4: is a memoir so interwoven with her own incredible story

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Speaker 4: of being the daughter of a black physician. Her mother,

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Speaker 4: the original doctor Blackstock, raised Ucha and her twin sister

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Speaker 4: own in Brooklyn and what went to Harvard Medical School,

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Speaker 4: graduated from there, and then her two daughters followed in

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Speaker 4: her footsteps. Literally they became the first legacy black female

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Speaker 4: legacies to graduate from Harvard Medical School, so meaning the

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Speaker 4: fact that their mother went there and that they were

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Speaker 4: their daughters and they also graduated from there.

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Speaker 3: They were the first.

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Speaker 4: So their story is just incredibly inspirational and unfortunately and tragically,

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Speaker 4: oo Jay's mom, the original doctor Blackstock, she passed away

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Speaker 4: tragically at the age of forty seven. She was diagnosed

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Speaker 4: with a form of leukemia. And despite being a physician

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Speaker 4: herself and being so healthy and I mean running marathons

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Speaker 4: and you know, doing a garden in their backyard and

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Speaker 4: you know, all of the resources that she had, she

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Speaker 4: still succumbed to that disease and leaving Ooja and her

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Speaker 4: twin sister one to really, at the age of nineteen,

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Speaker 4: move into their paths pursuing their careers in medicine and

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Speaker 4: doing without their mom.

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Speaker 3: It's it, truly.

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Speaker 4: She looks at the word legacy from all all sides.

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Speaker 4: And yes, there's a lot in the book. I mean,

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Speaker 4: you're gonna you're gonna like me, like I think a

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Speaker 4: lot of us know that black bodies were used and

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Speaker 4: abuse in the medical profession in so many ways that

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Speaker 4: there are tools today that were invented because they were

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Speaker 4: created by using and abusing black bodies and using us

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Speaker 4: as guinea pigs and test objects without our consent or knowledge.

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Speaker 4: And that's covered in the book. But I would say

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Speaker 4: what really struck me about the book Legacy is just

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Speaker 4: her personal story, because at it's heart, it's a story

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Speaker 4: of how a black woman navigated a career path and

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Speaker 4: was able to thrive and survive while being one of

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Speaker 4: the few, the only the difference, and having her mother's

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Speaker 4: legacy behind her and so many things kind of working

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Speaker 4: in her favor, and how she still ran up against

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Speaker 4: these institutions that were not.

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Speaker 3: Built for her.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't matter if you're in the medical field. I

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Speaker 4: think anyone a black woman in corporate America today can

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Speaker 4: relate to what doctor Blackstock shares in her memoir. I

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Speaker 4: can't recommend it enough. Get the audiobook with the ebook,

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Speaker 4: tell your library to stock it. And we got to

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Speaker 4: support this book. It is such an incredible story and

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Speaker 4: I've shared, you know on my show, like my experience

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Speaker 4: was with my dad, who my whole dad's side of

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Speaker 4: the family black impovers, growing up in Atlanta, not having

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Speaker 4: access to healthcare, treating the er like their primary care doctor.

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Speaker 3: And still like so many of them.

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Speaker 4: I could go down the list of my dad's siblings,

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Speaker 4: I think there were six of them in total, and

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Speaker 4: how many of them passed away from complications from chronic

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Speaker 4: conditions like diabetes, high blood pressure. How many of them

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Speaker 4: were on dialysis or currently on dialysis because they have

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Speaker 4: chronic kidney failure, they're trying to get a transplant, they

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Speaker 4: can't get one. I'm living this every day, and I'm

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Speaker 4: and like seeing my dad moved through the medical system,

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Speaker 4: seeing my sister recently moved to the medical system, and

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Speaker 4: how crucial it is for us to know what we're

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Speaker 4: up against so that when we go into these spaces,

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Speaker 4: we don't for a second hesitate to advocate for ourselves,

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Speaker 4: to bring a family member, a friend, anyone who can

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Speaker 4: just be a second pair of eyes, a second pair

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Speaker 4: of ears for us and help advocate for ourselves. I mean,

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Speaker 4: my dad had me, my brother, and my sister in there.

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Speaker 4: We were annoying the heck out of all his doctors

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Speaker 4: and nurses all the time, and I didn't feel bad

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Speaker 4: for a second because that's just what we have to

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Speaker 4: do as we're working through this system that in so

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Speaker 4: many ways gives us a short end of the stick.

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Speaker 4: So I hope that this conversation is inspiring. I hope

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Speaker 4: that it makes you think. I hope it encourages you

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Speaker 4: to not neglect your health and to advocate for yourself.

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Speaker 4: I also hope that it shines a light on the

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Speaker 4: superheroes like Doctor Shepherd, Doctor Blackstock, and how.

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Speaker 3: They are doing the Lord's work.

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Speaker 4: They are paving the path so that we can show

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Speaker 4: up and get the treatment that we deserve, and they're

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Speaker 4: actually doing it in a way where they're still taking

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Speaker 4: care of themselves and they are still thriving and living

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Speaker 4: their best lives. And I think that's such an important message.

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Speaker 4: And we do get into that a little bit, like

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Speaker 4: do you ever just wish you could show up to

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Speaker 4: work and just clock out and not have to then

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Speaker 4: go testify at Congress or defend your entire practice against

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Speaker 4: this anti DEI crusade that's happening in this country right now,

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Speaker 4: And to hear them tell it like, no, this is

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Speaker 4: the calling and this is the work, and we're proud

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Speaker 4: to have this great of an impact. I think it's

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Speaker 4: a message that I personally really needed to hear. So

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Speaker 4: let me take a quick break and we will come

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Speaker 4: back with my conversation with the incredible doctors Shepherd and Blackstock.

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Speaker 4: Please run and get their books. Generation m by doctor

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Speaker 4: Shepherd and Legacy a Black Doctor Reckons with Racism and

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Speaker 4: Medicine by doctor Blackstock. Don't forget to hit follow on

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Speaker 4: Brown Ambition. Make sure that you are following us on

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Speaker 4: YouTube as well. We are at Brown Ambition Podcast on

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Speaker 4: all socials. Drop me a note if this episode resonates

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Speaker 4: with you, if you want me to do more episodes

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Speaker 4: like this, ba fam, I do it for you, all right,

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Speaker 4: So that I'll take a quick break, be right back

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Speaker 4: with my conversation with doctors Blackstock and Shepherd. So this

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Speaker 4: podcast has been around for ten years. We center women

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Speaker 4: of color in conversations that typically relate to personal finances

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Speaker 4: and business. But the reason that I'm so excited to

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Speaker 4: have y'all on the show today is because there is

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Speaker 4: so much that it's still left to be done when

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Speaker 4: it comes to racial equity and healthcare. So who better

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Speaker 4: than the two of y'all to be here for this conversation.

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Speaker 4: I want to kick off actually with a question that

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Speaker 4: definitely occurred to me when I was reading doctor Blackstock's book,

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Speaker 4: Doctor Shepherd, Yours is a little bit less on your

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Speaker 4: personal journey, which I would love to talk to you about,

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Speaker 4: doctor Blackstock. You're so open and candid about your journey

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Speaker 4: through your career. I feel like for both of y'all

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Speaker 4: being entrenched in this world where you're talking to this

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Speaker 4: marginalized group of people we're talking to us, there must

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Speaker 4: be an emotional toll that this takes. How do y'all

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Speaker 4: take care of yourselves? How are you doing?

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Speaker 2: Okay? Yeah, I'm happy to answer that.

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Speaker 1: I feel like it's interesting because I feel like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I've been having a lot of book events and speaking events,

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Speaker 1: and it's always so wonderful because someone of the audience

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Speaker 1: will always ask me, how are you taking care of yourself?

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Speaker 1: I feel very cared for in that way. I would say,

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Speaker 1: I'm very very intentional about it. So one, I have

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Speaker 1: a wonderful therapist who has has held me down for

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Speaker 1: the last five six years, who has seen me through

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Speaker 1: career transitions, divorce, just so many different changes, and who

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Speaker 1: affirms who I am and where I am in this.

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Speaker 2: In this world.

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Speaker 1: So so that is really important for me. But I

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Speaker 1: also am very thoughtful about what I say yes and

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Speaker 1: no too, because I know that I have only.

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Speaker 2: So much of a bandwidth.

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Speaker 1: I'd be responsible to myself and my children, and I

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Speaker 1: can't say yes to everything, even though often I would

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Speaker 1: love to. So it has to be a hell yes.

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Speaker 1: And I actually probably say no to maybe like ninety

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Speaker 1: nine percent of the requests of me. Yeah, yeah, because

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Speaker 1: I have to really be into making sure that you know,

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Speaker 1: I go deplete myself and then obviously I know doctor

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Speaker 1: Shepherd probably does the same, but I really ties like

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Speaker 1: my sleep. I always make sure I try to get

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Speaker 1: my eat out or to sleep. Obviously, when I'm traveling

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Speaker 1: it's harder, but even my kids know, like I go

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Speaker 1: to bed at nine thirty, like I am, I'm done.

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Speaker 1: I go to bed at nine thirty to get my sleep.

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Speaker 1: And I also, you know, work out in different ways

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Speaker 1: like strength training, and you know, I go on my

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Speaker 1: walks and listen to my podcast. So I just make

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Speaker 1: sure I make time for myself to rest and restore.

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Speaker 3: I love that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think you know, in the journey of

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Speaker 5: this specific field, when you are doing something that there's

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Speaker 5: not a lot of representation of what you look like

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Speaker 5: in that field, and you know, and just from the numbers,

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Speaker 5: I think it's like six to seven percent of black

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Speaker 5: people in medicine across the entire nation, and so that

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Speaker 5: that statistic is staggering in then also being a female, right,

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Speaker 5: So there's a lot of different context to that. And

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Speaker 5: what I will say is during the process of getting

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Speaker 5: where I am, I think there was so much numbing

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Speaker 5: because you're just like, I just got to get through this.

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Speaker 5: That a lot of times we don't realize that we

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Speaker 5: are numbing. And so part of my process in taking

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Speaker 5: care of myself has been that inward, look at what

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Speaker 5: trauma is, because it's always not this categorical, like sentinel

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Speaker 5: event of when we think of trauma, but it's those

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Speaker 5: things that happened to us along the way and it's

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Speaker 5: not the actual event. It's what happens to us inside

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Speaker 5: and from that what we choose to work with and

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Speaker 5: moving forward.

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Speaker 4: I want to talk about entrepreneurship. So, doctor Shepherd, you're

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Speaker 4: currently you're back to Corporate Gurley. You're at Hymn's and hers, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and you are the chief medical officer, Is that correct.

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Speaker 5: Yes, chief medical officer of hers. Last year I took

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Speaker 5: that position during the launch of my book, but I

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Speaker 5: also have my practice, So that's the entrepreneurial side of.

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Speaker 6: You're still seeing patients.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, still finding the balance in that and again restructuring

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Speaker 5: how to best utilize my time. But being back in

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Speaker 5: that type of space outside of clinical medicine, but still

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Speaker 5: yielding to giving information on a broad perspective to people,

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Speaker 5: and then still seeing patients on a day to day basis,

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Speaker 5: really is able to integrate both of those.

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Speaker 4: Well, Doctor Blackstock, you obviously you're still full time with

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Speaker 4: Advancing Health Equity. Correct, that's the consultantim that you started

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Speaker 4: in tandem because you were still working practicing medicine. I

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Speaker 4: want to talk to both of y'all about that that

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Speaker 4: decision to start your own for you, doctor Shepherd, your

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Speaker 4: own practice, for doctor Blackstock, your consultancy, and what that

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Speaker 4: journey was like for you, Doctor Shepherd, Start with you

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Speaker 4: and how are you sort of, like you said, balancing

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Speaker 4: those two. What's it like.

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Speaker 3: What's it been like?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, the balance is everything, and that's really again going

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Speaker 5: back to the self work of ensuring that I know

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Speaker 5: what I'm doing, having clarity, making that process as clean

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Speaker 5: as I can. Obviously room for mistakes, but learning from those.

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Speaker 5: But I think the reason I really truly believed I

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Speaker 5: had to leave clinical medicine was what I was doing

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Speaker 5: in patients health, like.

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Speaker 6: What am I really doing for you?

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Speaker 5: And what I felt what I was doing for them

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Speaker 5: was actually not helpful because it was these short, intermittent

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Speaker 5: visits that were not impactful, not able to really change

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Speaker 5: the course or trajectory of their mindset, their lifestyle habits

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Speaker 5: really forming the relationship. So if we're not doing that,

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Speaker 5: then we're actually not impacting, which you can clearly see

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Speaker 5: in statistics of what we see in healthcare. We have

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Speaker 5: the best healthcare system in the world, but yet we

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Speaker 5: are still suffering from so many different things. Seven of

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Speaker 5: ten chronic diseases are preventable through lifestyle, So we're missing

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Speaker 5: it somewhere. And I think that missing is the relationship

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Speaker 5: and the connection and really being able to offer that

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Speaker 5: to patients. And I was just like, the more that

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Speaker 5: I fight the thing that is pushing against me, then

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Speaker 5: I'm not going to make change. So I have to

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Speaker 5: find another path in order to do that. And yes,

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Speaker 5: I'll see less patients, but now I'm being more impactful

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Speaker 5: and intentional with what I'm able to give them.

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Speaker 4: And do you think that that? So going into your

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Speaker 4: own practice, I mean that comes with me. You're you're

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Speaker 4: in a new space right now, you define the physical

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Speaker 4: space and the administrative side of things. Was that was

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Speaker 4: there a learning curve there or did you feel prepared.

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Speaker 6: To deep learning curve?

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Speaker 5: Because the funny thing is I have my MBA, So

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Speaker 5: you know, you're like, I have my MBA, I'm good,

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Speaker 5: and then real life is like you really good, and

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Speaker 5: you're like, so I'm going to retract that statement, And

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Speaker 5: this is where real life comes into what are you doing?

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Speaker 5: It's it's the hard knocks of life, right So the

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Speaker 5: things that you don't account for, the things that you

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Speaker 5: never thought had to be part of a practice now

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Speaker 5: do and so that growth to me, you know, growth

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Speaker 5: is everything about who we are, the one point zero

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Speaker 5: version going to the two point zero version, and why

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Speaker 5: would you want to stay stagnant? So this has really

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Speaker 5: pushed me into forums that I never thought I would

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Speaker 5: be in thought processes, learning to deal with people, people management,

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Speaker 5: all of that comes into play.

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Speaker 6: And I think that hiring, firing.

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Speaker 5: Those things can be very uncomfortable and I never had

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Speaker 5: to do those before. And so now to have to

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Speaker 5: take that on while still practicing the tenants of medicine

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Speaker 5: providing good clinical care.

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Speaker 6: Man. But when I tell you, like looking.

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Speaker 5: Back, we're hitting four years, this year is really like

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Speaker 5: where I was starting and to where I am now,

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Speaker 5: I'm just very grateful for the experience and all the

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Speaker 5: highs and the lows.

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Speaker 4: Congratulations, doctor Blockstack. Did you ever consider opening your own practice?

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Speaker 4: I mean you took that, you took a much different route.

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Speaker 4: I'm curious.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean I'm a board certified emergency medicine position,

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Speaker 1: so I guess.

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Speaker 2: I could have opened like my own urging care.

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Speaker 1: But I think for me, you know, I was in

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Speaker 1: academics feeling very small, like feeling like there was so

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Speaker 1: much more that I wanted to do. And that doctor

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Speaker 1: Sheper talks about, you know, being able to make an impact.

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Speaker 1: And it's interesting because I was talking to some college

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Speaker 1: students yesterday who were reading my book, and they said,

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Speaker 1: you love academics, You don't. You don't practice clinical medicine anymore,

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Speaker 1: don't you feel badly? And I said no, I said no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: you don't realize that there are so many different ways

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Speaker 1: that we can make an impact, and I actually felt like,

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Speaker 1: what you say, I know, no, no, but I know.

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Speaker 1: But I told them, I said, oh, but listen, you

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Speaker 1: can't imagine the things I've been able to do since

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Speaker 1: I made this decision to start my consultancy, because I've

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Speaker 1: testified in front of Congress, I have been able to

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Speaker 1: do things that impact many many people decide like the

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Speaker 1: one on one care that I do, which is also

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Speaker 1: I used to do, which also is very very important.

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Speaker 1: But I think that it's really important for us, especially

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Speaker 1: as a woman of color, to really think about like, how.

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Speaker 2: Can we really how can we be in alignment? How

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Speaker 2: can we follow our purpose?

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Speaker 1: And how can we be in roles other than the

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Speaker 1: ones that have We've been traditionally thought like that you

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Speaker 1: are like in a box and you're supposed to be

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Speaker 1: doing that that you know, we don't. We don't recognize

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Speaker 1: that there is abundance, right, There's so much that we

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Speaker 1: can do, and there's so much impact that we can

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Speaker 1: we can make.

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Speaker 3: I want to give y'all a chance again.

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Speaker 4: Your soapbox about like a myth in your fields that

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Speaker 4: just drives you nuts, And they're like, how.

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Speaker 3: Are people still not getting it?

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Speaker 4: Doctor Shepherd? I imagine it's around HRT. Yeah, and replacement

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Speaker 4: in that one study that was done twenty something years ago.

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Speaker 4: And doctor Blackseck, I'm curious about you, but let me

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Speaker 4: not put words in your mouth.

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Speaker 3: Doctor Shepherd, you go first.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a myth on hormone replacement therapy which was

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Speaker 5: a study done twenty years ago. The study actually was good,

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Speaker 5: it was what the messaging came from it, which is

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Speaker 5: why we should, like clinicians and scientists actually interpret results

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Speaker 5: and not let media have the ability to share what

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Speaker 5: they think is the message. And so you know, when

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Speaker 5: I think of the disservice done to women over the

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Speaker 5: amount of time that we were like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 5: running streets, this is bad for you. Is that's now

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Speaker 5: where we are as far as trying to reclaim or

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Speaker 5: rebrand the importance of hormones. But one thing I do

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Speaker 5: want to make very clear is that when we think

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Speaker 5: of all health and you know uch can definitely agree

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Speaker 5: with me on this, is when we think of communities

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Speaker 5: of color and black and brown communities. Is that still

436
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,439
Speaker 5: when there is a chain, a new idea, or a

437
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 5: new study, we always are the last to learn about it,

438
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 5: implement it into get the best fund of knowledge, the access,

439
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,720
Speaker 5: and that I see now happening in the menopause field

440
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,399
Speaker 5: is that one Black women experience it usually worse and

441
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 5: more intense and for longer duration when we think of

442
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 5: typical hot flashes and night sweats.

443
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 6: So here we are suffering it from.

444
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 5: The most longest and more intense, and yet we still

445
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 5: have maybe not even the breadth of the gap that

446
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,160
Speaker 5: was there, and then also the access. And so this

447
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,400
Speaker 5: is why I find it so imperative that we do

448
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,119
Speaker 5: have this representation in the menopause space, because, like I

449
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 5: refuse to have our women who are suffering the most

450
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 5: left behind and then increasing our risk not only for

451
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 5: just miserable symptoms at the time, but that also has

452
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,800
Speaker 5: implications on light long term care. Heart disease increases the

453
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:54,399
Speaker 5: more intense your hot flashes are, dementia. So I'm like, okay,

454
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,160
Speaker 5: we're not doing that again for this little bucket of healthcare,

455
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 5: which is a big bucket because everyone women will go

456
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,439
Speaker 5: through menopause like you can't evade it. So that to

457
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,359
Speaker 5: me is one of the myths that I won just

458
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 5: from a study perspective I want to debunk. But two,

459
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 5: when it comes to the community of women that need

460
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 5: this knowledge and education so that they can do better

461
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 5: for themselves. I'm like, we're not doing this again. We're

462
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 5: not playing this whole template of communities of color don't

463
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,679
Speaker 5: get the same access and information that they should.

464
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 4: But you're one person.

465
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:25,640
Speaker 3: I mean, I know how.

466
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:27,439
Speaker 6: We should try and clone me, and we've tried. It

467
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 6: just didn't work out too well.

468
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 4: Well, Brown and Fish can help amplify that message. Yeah,

469
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:32,960
Speaker 4: I mean, I've been doing the show for ten years.

470
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,200
Speaker 4: I started when I was twenty seven. I'm thirty seven now.

471
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 4: My former co host Tiffany's in her mid forties. She

472
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 4: was just telling me like, oh, no, I won't put

473
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:41,360
Speaker 4: her business out there.

474
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:43,640
Speaker 6: Well we did, but we won't tell her.

475
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 4: But like, I'm not Hippa, you know, I don't have

476
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,440
Speaker 4: any Hippa regulations for me. Go, so just yell at me, Tiffany.

477
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:51,639
Speaker 4: But she had talked about on the show too, just

478
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 4: like the Perry, you know, Perry coming. And I feel

479
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:01,200
Speaker 4: feel lucky and so privileged to be maybe the first

480
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,880
Speaker 4: generation who's going to have elders who actually will talk

481
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,680
Speaker 4: to me about it, right, And I just feel like

482
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,680
Speaker 4: that's the first step. Like I texted my mom before,

483
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 4: because I knew I was talking to you. It's like, Mom,

484
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,439
Speaker 4: did you ever try hormone replacement therapy? I think I

485
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,199
Speaker 4: heard she's sixty five and she said, you know, I

486
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 4: went through so much in my forties and fifties. Maybe

487
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,360
Speaker 4: it was menopause, I don't know. She had so much

488
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:22,440
Speaker 4: else happening, and.

489
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 3: She didn't first. And she's a white woman.

490
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 4: I'll put that like, so she's a white woman, so

491
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 4: you think she'd get all the good good but she

492
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 4: she did not first learn about HRT or like was

493
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 4: really taken seriously by her ob until she was in

494
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 4: her late fifties early sixties, and by then it's like

495
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 4: for her it didn't make a lot of sense exactly.

496
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 6: And so there again is that gap.

497
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 5: So I thank you for calling her too, because see

498
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 5: how like the more you know at a younger age,

499
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 5: you can still invite her into the conversation, which then

500
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 5: you can pass on to Tiffany, who were not really mentioning,

501
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 5: but we are mentioning.

502
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm giving her this book post taste. I'm a

503
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 3: little bit early.

504
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 4: I'm like, well it doesn't really apply to me, Yeah, but.

505
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 3: We'll pass it around.

506
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 4: It'll be dog eared, So, you know, menopause one of

507
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 4: the things that I with my mother that was always

508
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 4: interesting to me because she dealt with some chronic pain

509
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 4: like fibromyalgia, and she had so many things and so

510
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 4: many doctors who didn't believe her, and there was so

511
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 4: much disinformation, and for her, I think sometimes she would

512
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 4: be defensive if anyone suggested it could be menopause symptoms.

513
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 4: I think for her it felt like, that's just menopause. Y'all,

514
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 4: ladies go through it. Do you encounter that at all

515
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 4: like this?

516
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,199
Speaker 5: I would say that's one of the first things that

517
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 5: women come in with is the stigma, right.

518
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 6: And so just a little hint here all of that.

519
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,360
Speaker 5: When you think of women's health and not as being

520
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 5: able to explain that or honor that or embrace it,

521
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 5: a lot of that has to do with patriarchy.

522
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 6: Right, Let's not give them the ability.

523
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 5: To embrace that and go through that in a way

524
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,679
Speaker 5: where they are not ashamed to talk about it, because

525
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,640
Speaker 5: shame then can keep you quiet and we don't have

526
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 5: to deal with it. And then on the other side

527
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 5: is when we look at women, how they're valued in

528
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 5: society today usually has to do a run of reproductive

529
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 5: age frame, right, whether you have kids or not, Like

530
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 5: your worth is usually valued in what you can do,

531
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,360
Speaker 5: i e. Bringing you know, a child into the world,

532
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 5: and then after that, which obviously you're now out of

533
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 5: that reproductive frame in menopause, it's like, thanks so much

534
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 5: for your work. Go over here, We're going to escort

535
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,360
Speaker 5: you to a nice black box here in a closet

536
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 5: and we'll lock the door.

537
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 6: Thank you for your time. And so that creates this.

538
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 5: Ecosystem of well, I'm not talking about it, and I'm

539
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 5: just going to keep quiet about it and suffer.

540
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 6: And we don't have to do that. We don't have

541
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 6: to live like that.

542
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I wish that had a I wish it

543
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,120
Speaker 4: had been different for her. But we're here at Brown

544
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 4: Ambition where we're at least going to make a different

545
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 4: for our audience.

546
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 6: Yes we will.

547
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 4: Doctor Blackstock, all right, your turn to be on your soapbox.

548
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 4: When you think about I know there's so many and

549
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 4: you do such a good job and your book legacy

550
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:02,880
Speaker 4: bringing up research and insight into racist practices and medicine

551
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 4: that I think too many of us as women of color,

552
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 4: are aware of. But if there was a myth or

553
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 4: a misunderstanding. What would that be for you?

554
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I don't know if this is necessarily

555
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: a myth, but a lot of the work I do

556
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: and appicacy I do is around the undertreatment of pain

557
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: in black patients and especially in black women. And we

558
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: know there's a lot of gaslighting happening when we go

559
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: to seek care, and you know, we have these experiences

560
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: and we know that anecdotally this happens, but there's actually

561
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,199
Speaker 1: a lot of data that shows that validates that.

562
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 2: And so a lot of the work that.

563
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: I've been doing is actually working with medical schools around

564
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: integrating how pain is treated and cared for among communities

565
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 1: of color. But starting in medical school and talking about

566
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 1: where these deeply rooted myths about black people and pain

567
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 1: come from. Because people are you know, whether they you know,

568
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: are physicians or not, they're absorbing all of this messaging

569
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: that it's making them think that somehow our bodies are different,

570
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 1: somehow we're less sensitive to pain.

571
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 2: And often what happens is if.

572
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: You're not treating the pain or you're not investigating the

573
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: source of the pain, you're actually missing a diagnosis, you're

574
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: missing the reason why.

575
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 2: So it's not just.

576
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: That you know, being in pain causes emotional distress and

577
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: physical distress, you actually could be causing harm to patients.

578
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 1: And so this is obviously one of the you know

579
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: things I talk about a lot, but why advocating for

580
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: yourself as a patient is so important. I always tell

581
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: people to bring someone with you if you can, to

582
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: a doctor's visit or the emergency department, because when you're

583
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: not feeling your best, you can't really it's hard to

584
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 1: really advocate for yourself, like, really have clear questions for

585
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: your health professional about like what do you think is

586
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: going on once? What the top breathings you think, what

587
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 1: are red flags that should look out for, what's your plan?

588
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 2: What's my follow up? Like really be clear about that because.

589
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, the way the system is, we have to really

590
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 1: advocate for ourselves.

591
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 4: I mean, you share in your book your own experience

592
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 4: and you were, oh my god, what a medical student.

593
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,439
Speaker 1: Yeah they had adis that was missed and I had

594
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 1: all these complications.

595
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, this was like something I feel like I could

596
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 4: diagnose because I watched Hella Gray's Anatomy on the Lady.

597
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: Even my twin sister, who was in school with me

598
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: at the time, told me I think you have appendicitis,

599
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 1: she told me the first visit.

600
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, and still and you're being speculumed and like you know,

601
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 4: checked for like your sexual history.

602
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 5: Can we just go back to that term, love it.

603
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:33,360
Speaker 5: I'm going to start using speculumed.

604
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 3: What a terrible device.

605
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 5: It's a new term here on Brown Ambition speculatum vculumed.

606
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 4: Listen I had anyway, I'm not going to get into

607
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 4: my birth stories, but I was like, get that thing

608
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 4: away from me at a certain point. Okay, doctor Shepherd,

609
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 4: I know that you have to go. I'm just going

610
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 4: to shut up for two minutes and let you say

611
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 4: whatever it is that you want to say about hymns

612
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 4: and hers, about what our listeners should understand about going

613
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 4: to their GINO and getting I go other checkups, anything

614
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 4: that you want to say that you think could be

615
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 4: most impactful.

616
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 5: No pressure, Yeah, no, just this wonderful ability to have

617
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 5: this conversation, and especially the community that listens and really

618
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 5: tunes in. I would say I would love women and

619
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 5: men to when they hear this particular episode, is to

620
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 5: truly understand the value of themselves individually but also in

621
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 5: their community. I really have used a lot of mind

622
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 5: body connection in my practice and how I choose to

623
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 5: inform people of what they're going through, because a lot

624
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 5: of times we numb what's going on up here, and

625
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 5: our body does respond to that, whether it's chronic stress,

626
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 5: whether it's things that have happened in our lives currently

627
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 5: and in the past. Has a lot to do with

628
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 5: how we can show up, but also our physical manifestations

629
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 5: of health as well. And so if there's one thing

630
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 5: that I would want everyone to leave here with, as

631
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 5: we do have the ability to change our trajectory and health,

632
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 5: whether that's in menopause, whether that's even with just when

633
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 5: we look at chronic diseases like diabetes and hypertension, Like

634
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 5: we have that ability to really heal ourselves in the

635
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 5: way through our life, how we surround ourselves with people

636
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 5: and experiences, how we invest back into the community, and

637
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 5: then also how we treat ourselves inwardly so that we

638
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 5: have the tools to do all of this.

639
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 6: So it's very multifaceted.

640
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 5: I'm very fortunate in the course of that I've taken

641
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 5: through my journey in medicine. I mean, ucha you remember,

642
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 5: like going through like med school and residency alone, You're like,

643
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 5: how did I get through that. But on the other

644
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 5: side of it, all the journeys that we've taken. You know,

645
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 5: even though we've stepped outside of clinical medicine, the beauty

646
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 5: that we were able to see through seeing so many

647
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 5: patients at the intensity of illness that they were being

648
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 5: able to really bond with patients there now going into

649
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 5: different types of medicine and wellness and health. I am

650
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 5: so fortunate and glad that I can be where I

651
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 5: am to use my voice but also to encourage others

652
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 5: who are behind me trying to accomplish the same thing

653
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 5: that they too can accomplish that. So I would say,

654
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 5: we have the ability to fine tune our health, both

655
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 5: mind and body. And then I love being able to

656
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 5: be partnered with collaborative events podcasts such as Brown Ambition

657
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 5: to solidify the platform of what community means to everyone

658
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 5: and we all should be investing back into the community

659
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 5: and ourselves individually.

660
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 4: I love that message. I can't thank you enough for

661
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 4: taking the time. I'm going to have you back.

662
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 5: We should just do a whole like all three of

663
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 5: us like again, like do it again, and just like

664
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 5: make it like an every eight week occurrence.

665
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 3: Why not say less?

666
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 4: It'll be like our checkup.

667
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, I love it.

668
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 4: These are our chief.

669
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 3: Medical officers for Brown Ambision. All right, Doctor.

670
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,719
Speaker 4: Shepherd had to dip out because she is running her

671
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 4: own healthcare practice.

672
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:47,479
Speaker 3: How she's busy.

673
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 4: But luckily I still have more to come with my

674
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 4: conversation with doctor j.

675
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 3: Blackstock.

676
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 4: So stick around, be a fam I'm handy money, and

677
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 4: I will be right back.

678
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 3: All right, be a faan.

679
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 4: Let's jump back into my conversation with the incredible doctor J. Blackstock.

680
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 4: Doctor Blackstock, your story, I mean, first of all, I

681
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 4: just want to say thank you because I know it

682
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 4: may not have been so easy for you to share

683
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 4: so much of your personal journey in this book. And

684
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 4: I wonder if there was a version of this book

685
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 4: that was a little less like about your journey and

686
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 4: more just like your final chapter, where you're like, here's

687
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 4: everything that we should be right like, here's the you know,

688
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 4: very like cut and dry of it. Here's what's happening

689
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 4: in the medical system. That's that racism is making everything worse.

690
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 4: Here's how we fix it. Goodbye.

691
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 2: Well, you know it's interesting. Well, you know it's interesting.

692
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: I think that like in talking about these issues sometimes

693
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: like the stories are really important. The storytelling piece, and

694
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: because I feel so connected. Mean, I've always felt like

695
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: I live in two worlds. Like I know, I had

696
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: that live experience as a black woman and as a

697
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: black patient, but I'm also a black physician and my

698
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: mother was. So I feel like very much embedded and

699
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: within medicine, whether I like it or not. I also

700
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: feel very call to you know, beat work in service

701
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: to our communities. And so I think writing the book

702
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: like that personal piece of it was really really important

703
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: because that's how you connect with readers.

704
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, people want.

705
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: To like know the history, they want to know like

706
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: the data, but how do you write it in a

707
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: way that it really like sticks with them, it resonates

708
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: with them. So actually, interestingly enough, I found it really

709
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: therapeutic to write this memoir because really it was sort

710
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: of like I did a lot of processing while I

711
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: was writing it, processing of losing my mother, right of

712
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: being at the same age. Actually you know, she died

713
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: at forty seven, I'm forty seven.

714
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 2: Now, the fact that the book is out, all of

715
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 2: this these sort of like this.

716
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: Alignment, right, thinking about if she were here, you know

717
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: what she would think and you know how she would feel.

718
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: But also the book. Probably if she was here, I

719
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: probably would not have the book, you know. So so

720
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: it's just like so many different ways of thinking about things.

721
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: But I did find I'm kind of like, I.

722
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 2: Don't think I'm an extrovert. I think I'm an ambrovert.

723
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: But but I do love sharing my stories because when

724
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: I was going through a lot of these experiences, I

725
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,479
Speaker 1: felt very, very isolated because you know, I didn't share

726
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,240
Speaker 1: a lot. I felt almost like a failure at times.

727
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: And so I think it's important to tell our stories,

728
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 1: to be vulnerable, because then we actually.

729
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 2: Find that we're not alone, that there are other.

730
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: People, not just in medicine and other fields, that have

731
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 1: gone through you know, the same experiences, right, And so

732
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,760
Speaker 1: it was therapeutic writing this book.

733
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 4: I'm really happy to hear that I'm actually working on

734
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 4: I'm my manuscript is due tomorrow.

735
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,760
Speaker 3: I'm going to need good congratulation.

736
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 1: Thank you.

737
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 4: I'm publishing with Hashet. The book is Brown Ambition, and

738
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 4: I also went all in with my personal story, and

739
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 4: as I was reading yours, I'm just like, oh, hell yeah,

740
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 4: this is the kind of book that I love and

741
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 4: it's the you know, it's the truth, and it's powerful.

742
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 4: And strapeutic as how I agree.

743
00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 2: Yes, and we need to tell our stories.

744
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: Our stories are important, they need to be told, we

745
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:04,959
Speaker 1: need to read them.

746
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 2: So I'm so excited for you.

747
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 3: Thank you.

748
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 4: You know your book. Actually, for me, I was most

749
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 4: drawn toward because I think I'm a weirdo because I

750
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 4: come from journalism, so I was aware of some of

751
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 4: the terrible, traumatic truth of the history of how our

752
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 4: bodies were used in medicine to advance medicine in so

753
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 4: many ways, and how they were abused in that way.

754
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 4: And I think, for my own self protection, I think

755
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 4: a lot of us I kind of skim over that,

756
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,320
Speaker 4: like in a way, I'm like, I don't want to

757
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,359
Speaker 4: think about that. I just want to focus on your

758
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 4: inspiring story and how you were so resilient and following

759
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 4: you as a as a character, I wonder too. And

760
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 4: part of me feels like, oh, this is the perfect

761
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 4: It's a book for us, like women of color. But

762
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 4: it's also like I want every white physician in America

763
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,439
Speaker 4: or any non black physician and even the black ones,

764
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,879
Speaker 4: you know, because sometimes we internalize a bunch of crap too,

765
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 4: to read this.

766
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 3: So how how's it been going? I mean, you wrote

767
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:57,919
Speaker 3: this book.

768
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 4: Abu a year now has the book, is the book

769
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,879
Speaker 4: being is it reaching the hands of the people in

770
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 4: medicine who really need it?

771
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 1: You know, it's really interesting that you asked that because

772
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: I was at a book talk like two weeks ago

773
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: and this like eighty year old white male hematologist, like

774
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,280
Speaker 1: blood doctor. He came to me and said, doctor black Stuff,

775
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 1: we read your book. A group of us read your

776
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: book and we love it so much. I'm so ashamed

777
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: that there were so many things that I didn't know

778
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: that I didn't realize and we talked through it and

779
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: you know, it really electrified us. And I'm like, yes,

780
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: that's what I want. And I said, okay, so what

781
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: do you know? What do you what's your what's your action?

782
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: Like what's your next step? You know, because I want

783
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: you know, you know, so we're talking about things that

784
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: he can do. I always tell people like, it's not

785
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 1: just about reading the book, but it's about like, what

786
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: are you going to do now that you read the book,

787
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: Which is why I took that call to action at

788
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: the end to different key stakeholder groups, like because I

789
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: don't want you to be like, oh, I don't know

790
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: what to do?

791
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 2: Now. Actually, someone even.

792
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 1: Emailed me and said, I read your book and I

793
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 1: know one of the things you mentioned was donating to

794
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: black led organizations, So what can I do? And so

795
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,720
Speaker 1: I gave them a list, including like my nursery school,

796
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:09,959
Speaker 1: Little Sun People, which is forty years old.

797
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 4: Black women, O say, I always read the dedications.

798
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 3: I love these.

799
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: Oh yes, Actually, it's so funny. When I was recording

800
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: the audiobook, the sound engineer and the director they said, honestly,

801
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: we've never seen an author have such a long acknowledgment

802
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 1: section and mentioned so many people. And I said, while

803
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 1: you have to understand that my village helped get me

804
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: to where I am today. I wouldn't have been able

805
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: to write this book. I wouldn't have had all the

806
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: experiences I had if I hadn't been lifted up by

807
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: all of these people, including my nursery school founder and director,

808
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 1: because her curriculum was like an afrocentric, culturally responsive.

809
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 2: Curriculum, one of the first in the country.

810
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 1: And I knew from a very young age that as

811
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: a as a black person is a black woman in

812
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 1: this country, I knew who I always had a strong

813
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: sense of who I was, and that has helped me

814
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 1: get through a lot of really tough situations.

815
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 4: I could cry thinking about how desperately I wish I

816
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 4: had a similar story for my education. I would have

817
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 4: saved so many years. Yeah, I think because I have

818
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:19,359
Speaker 4: young boys now and they're they're they are I know yours, well,

819
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 4: yours are a bit older now because.

820
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 3: You said six and eight in the book.

821
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 4: Now yeah, oh I have a five and a two

822
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 4: year old. Oh okay, I really am, but I they are.

823
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 4: You know, they're going to be perceived as Latino men,

824
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 4: Hispanic men because my husband's Dominican and they're very fair skinned.

825
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 4: I'm at the point where I'm like, I want to

826
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,360
Speaker 4: move to Brooklyn. They need to be around black people,

827
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 4: black women. They need to know their mama as black.

828
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 4: I love that part of their history, and they will.

829
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 4: They already do my five Mama on my curls poppin.

830
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: Yes, love it, love it because yours certainly are yes

831
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: all things. You know.

832
00:38:58,280 --> 00:38:59,479
Speaker 3: She had a deep condition moment.

833
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 2: That's really good.

834
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 3: Thank you.

835
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 4: In this political climate when DEI, everything that advancing health

836
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 4: equity you're a consultant firm stands for and works toward

837
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 4: is being gutted and being dismantled and under so much fire.

838
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 4: How has that changed your work at all? And how

839
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 4: are you doing in this?

840
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 2: Yeah?

841
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,439
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I think by nature I try

842
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: to be positive.

843
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 2: I will admit that I am.

844
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: Very unsettled and disturbed by what is happening, especially for

845
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: the threats to defund universities.

846
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 2: That have DII programmed.

847
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: Right, So I'm I was glad to hear that Harvard

848
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 1: is suing the Trump administration around that.

849
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 2: And you know, of.

850
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 1: Course, to me, that is like the lowest bar, Like,

851
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 1: of course, I think every university should should do that, right,

852
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: because that's definitely government overreach. But what I will say

853
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: is that this time.

854
00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,760
Speaker 2: Makes my work even more meaningful.

855
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:01,879
Speaker 1: To me, I didn't even I didn't think it would

856
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: even get to that point. But it's like the work

857
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: that we have been doing for the last six years

858
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:13,720
Speaker 1: pre pandemic around health equity, around DEI within health health organizations,

859
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: it's even more important. Obviously, the challenge is that a

860
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 1: lot of organizations are pausing and trying to figure out

861
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 1: what's happening, and so yes, we are also seeing that

862
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: in terms of the client organizations we work for. So

863
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: this is not going to be an easy year for us.

864
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: We are like really thinking and that part of being

865
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: an entrepreneur is pivoting, right, So we actually just developed

866
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: an app called a Health Equity Champions Program so people,

867
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 1: so individuals can sign up to join a community of

868
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: folks who are interested in health equity. We do live lectures,

869
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,359
Speaker 1: we do recorded lectures, we do workshops, so just like

870
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 1: a way for them to find community, because I think

871
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: in this time that's what we need amidst all the

872
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 1: chaos and the fear. Really, the I would say the

873
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 1: antidote to that is community in us being in community

874
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 1: to get so really trying to think about what are

875
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,359
Speaker 1: innovative ways that we can still get folks who care

876
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: deeply about this work still engaged.

877
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 4: Have you had any clients of yours organizations that have

878
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 4: like canceled a contract with you, pulled back.

879
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 3: I don't want to tell you out, but yeah.

880
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 2: So definitely.

881
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have had organizations that as of January February,

882
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 1: said we have to cancel this contract because we are

883
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: worried about this concern about this engagement we have is

884
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: around DEI, it's around health equity, and we can no

885
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: longer do that because we get funding from the government, right,

886
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 1: or we've had invoices pause, like we're waiting for invoices

887
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:44,879
Speaker 1: to come in, but because like the thing, yes, yeah,

888
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 1: I know, because there is pauses happening and they're trying

889
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 1: to it's impacting us. So definitely scary, like kind of

890
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: scary and selling times. And even myself and I do

891
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: a lot of speaking events. I've had two host organizations

892
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: cancel on me. One because there what was a public

893
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: university because they had to get rid of all DEI

894
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: programs so they don't even have their di office that

895
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 1: originally invited me, and then saying with another with a

896
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: cancer center out west also canceled.

897
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:15,720
Speaker 3: How much business are you have you lost?

898
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I just see well at the

899
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 1: same time, so two things. One, there are still some

900
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: brave organizations that want to do the work, and we

901
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 1: also are just kind of being really thoughtful about how

902
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 1: we present the work. Now.

903
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 2: You know, sometimes you have to.

904
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 1: Say, like we do trainings on psychological safety, right, like

905
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: you know, like how do we create environment where everyone

906
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: can show up as themselves?

907
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 2: So kind of like the same work, but just kind.

908
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: Of framing it a little bit differently. And then also

909
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 1: I've been so on the road since the book came

910
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:50,839
Speaker 1: out over a year ago, and I'm very grateful for it.

911
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: But actually I'm okay with a little bit of a

912
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 1: little break. And even if that break, it's not like.

913
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 4: I'm the worst producer of a podcast. Sometimes because I'll

914
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:04,879
Speaker 4: see a book as out, I'm like, I love this book,

915
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 4: I'm reading this book. I'm telling everyone about it. I

916
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 4: forget that I could just like have the hole I

917
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 4: can invite the author.

918
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 3: So I's so neat.

919
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: Thank you.

920
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 3: Yes, you're probably like kind of MISTI no, oh no.

921
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 2: Because I have the podcast.

922
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: But also we will have to talk another time about

923
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: like being a black author and what that means in

924
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: terms of marketing your book, because also it's really publishers

925
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 1: really leave it up to you, the author, to market

926
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: the book.

927
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 2: They only spend about two percent of their revenue in marketing.

928
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 2: So other than that lead up to the pub date and.

929
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: Those few weeks after, you as the author are really

930
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:43,839
Speaker 1: getting the message of your book out there.

931
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,320
Speaker 4: And I commend you because you went to medical school,

932
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 4: like you're a doctor, are you still practicing?

933
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 1: And some no, no, no, So actually it's interesting because I

934
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 1: left academic medicine in December twenty nineteen and the pandemic hit.

935
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 2: I was working in urgent care and I gave myself

936
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 2: five years.

937
00:43:58,160 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 1: I said, I'm going to work with five years in

938
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 1: urgent care while I build up the Advancing Health Equity

939
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: the consulting firm. But everything happened in twenty twenty and

940
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 1: there was a need for me. They really come full

941
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: time to Dancing Health Equity. So my five year plan

942
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: became a two year plan. So had I stopped practicing

943
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one, which I could have never have imagined.

944
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 1: Every morning I wake up and I pinch myself because

945
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 1: I say, Wow, I'm really doing what I love and

946
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 1: what gives me purpose, and I could have never imagined it.

947
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 4: How important do you think pop culture representations of medicine

948
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 4: are when it comes to inspiring more, especially more black

949
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 4: female physicians, because the statistics who share in the book,

950
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 4: how small the numbers are, And I think, you know,

951
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 4: across industries, but especially with medicine, because there's such a uphill.

952
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, the reason.

953
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 4: But yeah, I'm wondering because I know I've seen actors

954
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 4: from like Gray's Anatomy talk about how they've inspired doctors,

955
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,800
Speaker 4: but I'm like, what kind like thank God for Miranda Bailey,

956
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 4: but like, you know, show the Pit Is Out, which.

957
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,280
Speaker 1: Is I know, which I haven't watched because I typically

958
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 1: don't watch shows yet to bring Also, I'm kind of like,

959
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: I'm very critical, like is that accurate or not?

960
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 3: Because SUPERA I know, I know, so I.

961
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 2: Think I'm gonna have to I'm going to have to

962
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 2: watch it.

963
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 1: But it's interesting because when I, you know, when the

964
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 1: pandemic hit and I was I became an MSNBC NBC

965
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 1: News medical contributor for many people with the first time

966
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,919
Speaker 1: seeing a black position, a black women's position on TV

967
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 1: like Live like literally everyone and especially for black folks,

968
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 1: and so I recognized that was so important for me

969
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 1: to be the one that they look to for accurate

970
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: and responsible information. There are people who messaged me and said,

971
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 1: I got vaccinated because because of you. I ended up

972
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 1: sending my kids back to school because of you, because

973
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 1: you told me what you told us, what you were

974
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 1: doing with your kids.

975
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 2: So that's why I.

976
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: Think it's so important for g Yes, my barber, g

977
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,919
Speaker 1: I know they know, so, so you know, I love

978
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: I would love to see more representations of us in

979
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 1: pop culture. It's interesting because I spoke to someone really

980
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: briefly who's interested in an optioning legacy, and they said,

981
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: oh my goodness, I could see a scripted series starring

982
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,399
Speaker 1: Megan good just about like one part of the book

983
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: about you know, being an academic medicine and dealing with

984
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: your you know, going through a divorce and and you know,

985
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: and dealing with the workplace and seeing patients, you know,

986
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, I love that.

987
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:33,879
Speaker 4: I mean, hell yeah, and has A has the same

988
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 4: dude from er that's like Noah Wiley, I mean, and

989
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 4: he's everyone's like, ooh, doctor.

990
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 3: Daddy, like so cute.

991
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 4: But I'm like, what about there's one black physician, one

992
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 4: black female physician who's kind of one, just one prominent one.

993
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 4: I watched the whole series already, So we have a

994
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 4: South Asian doctor. There's one black doctor, a dark skinned

995
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:59,720
Speaker 4: woman with with locks, which I just love. Yes, yes,

996
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 4: he comes in. It's it's she comes in toward the end.

997
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 4: And I'm like, yes, another sister. But I feel like

998
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 4: the producers have red legacy. And I'll tell you why,

999
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 4: because in the first couple of episodes, there is a

1000
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 4: sickle cell patient who comes into the er and I

1001
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 4: just I see because you really handle that issue with

1002
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:20,360
Speaker 4: such care in your book, which I think is so important,

1003
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 4: and the way that she's treated from the EMS team.

1004
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 3: And it's a woman of color in the er.

1005
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 4: Department who was like, no, she has sickle cell because

1006
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:32,760
Speaker 4: they think that she's for her pain. And this doctor

1007
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 4: is being admonished by the er director for taking so

1008
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 4: much time with patients and for because they're just like,

1009
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 4: we got to get more clients, were you know, get

1010
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:44,879
Speaker 4: through patients have some.

1011
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 3: Kind of quota.

1012
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 4: I didn't know there was like quotas or goals of

1013
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 4: how many patients you need to be like running through

1014
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 4: when the ers are like that, did you ever feel

1015
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 4: like you talk in the book about you know, hitting

1016
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,439
Speaker 4: your burnout point, but did you feel that you weren't

1017
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 4: able to take so much care and like be so

1018
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 4: compassionate towards your patients so that you can get through

1019
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 4: more of them?

1020
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 2: No? No, no, no.

1021
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 1: I think it was that you're expected to do both right,

1022
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 1: Like you're expected to like take really good care of

1023
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: them but also be efficient. And there's some of my

1024
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 1: colleagues who are amazing at that, like they can just

1025
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:20,240
Speaker 1: multitask really really well.

1026
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 2: But I feel like I always.

1027
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: Felt like I wanted to spend a little bit more

1028
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 1: time with my patients, and you just couldn't.

1029
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 2: Becau time wouldn't allow it.

1030
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 1: And when you look at the board, there are like

1031
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: twenty patients waiting to be seen, so that I mean,

1032
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: it's hard.

1033
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 2: Emergency medicine is tough. It's tough.

1034
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:37,919
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think The Pit is a wonderful show.

1035
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 4: I don't mean to labor labor it, but a show

1036
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:42,720
Speaker 4: with a black were female.

1037
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 3: Like doctor at the heart of it just do so

1038
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 3: much too.

1039
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 4: Because I'm like, how do we get more black women doctors?

1040
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 2: I would love that. So we're gonna manifest. We're going

1041
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:53,399
Speaker 2: to manifest them.

1042
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 4: Oh that would be so exciting. The whole world of

1043
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 4: option in your blood did.

1044
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 3: You ever imagine?

1045
00:48:58,000 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 1: Never?

1046
00:48:58,920 --> 00:48:59,919
Speaker 2: Never? Never?

1047
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 3: All right, So in this.

1048
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 4: Space too, I worry for well, I'm I have concern

1049
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 4: for you and for doctor Shepherd because it's not just

1050
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 4: that there's few of us in the rooms that we

1051
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 4: are in professionally, but sometimes like for example, I was

1052
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 4: a personal finance reporter, a business reporter, and I was like,

1053
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 4: I need to do a podcast that's going to like,

1054
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 4: you know, really center women of color so that we

1055
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 4: get access to this information. And then that turned into

1056
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 4: a business. And and you as well, you know, you

1057
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 4: you're an extremely accomplished physician, then you obviously you have

1058
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 4: this higher calling and you want to do more and

1059
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:35,839
Speaker 4: have a bigger impact. Sometimes do you wish you could

1060
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,359
Speaker 4: just be a doctor? Like you could just have your

1061
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 4: you know, get your mom's bag and you know, put

1062
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 4: your name underneath it and like just go to work

1063
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 4: and go home and like just be fine.

1064
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:47,840
Speaker 1: I don't know, I feel like, you know what it is, like,

1065
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 1: I definitely feel like I have a higher purpose and

1066
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 1: there's so and I care so deeply about our community,

1067
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: and I felt like, like I said earlier, I.

1068
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 2: Think how can I have the most impact?

1069
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 1: But also yeah, definitely when I take care of myself

1070
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 1: because I need to be in this world for the

1071
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 1: long run.

1072
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 2: But addicacy is really important to me.

1073
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 4: Wow, hold space for that sometimes, Like, and it seems

1074
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 4: like you have. I really admire that you have such

1075
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 4: a holistic understanding of the work you're doing. But also like,

1076
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 4: and it was woven through your book and I think

1077
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,839
Speaker 4: about your mother's last letter to you that you found

1078
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 4: under the mattress, which is such a black mom thing

1079
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 4: to do, like put it under that?

1080
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:27,320
Speaker 3: Was it under the mattress?

1081
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 2: Up? Yes, it was.

1082
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 4: It was who knows what missives I'll have for my

1083
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 4: I know, I know, matt maybe some cash you might

1084
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 4: buy anyway. But in her letter in where she said,

1085
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 4: you know, take care of yourself and put yourself first,

1086
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,440
Speaker 4: and I wonder if, like, was that something that you

1087
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 4: felt like she really instilled in you and does that

1088
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:49,360
Speaker 4: help you, you know, keep things balancing?

1089
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:50,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, yourself.

1090
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I felt like, you know, definitely as

1091
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:53,879
Speaker 1: a nineteen year old when I was reading that, I.

1092
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 2: Was like, what is or what she so that? To me?

1093
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,280
Speaker 2: I was like, what is what is she talking about?

1094
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,800
Speaker 2: Like I didn't really get it. But now older, writing

1095
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 2: the book and as a mother, as.

1096
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 1: A business owner, as a doctor, as a speaker, as

1097
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,359
Speaker 1: an author, like I didn't recognize the complexity.

1098
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 2: Of of who my mother was.

1099
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 1: Like at the time, she was just my mom, But

1100
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:13,839
Speaker 1: now who I am as a forty seven year old,

1101
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 1: I'm like, damn, she was amazing. How did she do it?

1102
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,399
Speaker 1: And I wish she could have had more support? Yeah,

1103
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 1: And I wish she could have had more support which

1104
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 1: she didn't have to work so hard. I wish did

1105
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 1: she didn't have to, you know, especially being the first

1106
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 1: in her family to finish college and then go to

1107
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 1: medical school and then try to have, you know, have

1108
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 1: a career and then have kids, and it's just it's

1109
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 1: a lot. It's a lot, you know. So I think

1110
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:39,879
Speaker 1: I reflected a lot on like, Wow, she really went

1111
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 1: through it, and I love report, and I wish she

1112
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:44,280
Speaker 1: could have had more support.

1113
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 4: Do you feel like you're getting to live her next

1114
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 4: chapter in a way? You mentioned you're the same age

1115
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 4: now as when she passed away, and that she was considering,

1116
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 4: you know, divorcing your father, and I don't know what else,

1117
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 4: but you've really a divorce. What's that only been like

1118
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 4: for you? And how do you think that's tied to Yeah.

1119
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 1: She's she's actually going to go to public health school too,

1120
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 1: like she's going to like like she was going to

1121
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: do like so much more.

1122
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 2: And so, you know, I definitely.

1123
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 1: Feel like I'm living a life that she made that

1124
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 1: she probably would have wanted for herself, and.

1125
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 2: That you know, maybe because of.

1126
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 1: Just societal aspectations, personal expectations, that she couldn't really make

1127
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: those decisions earlier on in her life. You know that

1128
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 1: by the time she wanted to unfortunately, you know, she

1129
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 1: passed away. You know, it's interesting because I actually had

1130
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 1: my my annual mammogram an ultrasound a few weeks ago,

1131
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 1: and they found a mass and that had to be

1132
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:46,799
Speaker 1: worked up. So far it's okay, But I literally was

1133
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 1: just like thinking to myself, Oh, my goodness, like all

1134
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,240
Speaker 1: of the thoughts going went through my head, like my kids,

1135
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 1: my will, like all of this stuff, and just thinking

1136
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 1: about like what my mom was going through when she

1137
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 1: was sick and when she was ill, right, and just

1138
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:03,800
Speaker 1: thinking like I really have to take care of myself,

1139
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:07,240
Speaker 1: like I really take care of myself. You know, everything's

1140
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 1: gonna be fine, but just like recognizing we're not always

1141
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 1: going to be healthy. Things will come up, but you know,

1142
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:17,320
Speaker 1: really living in your purpose and taking care of yourself.

1143
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:21,320
Speaker 4: Thank you for mentioning the mammogram and so you've gotten

1144
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 4: those annually and this was the first time.

1145
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yeah, I'm very yeah, I'm very much like

1146
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 1: I see what I'm supposed to do.

1147
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 2: I'm a good student.

1148
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:32,359
Speaker 4: I'm really proud of you for saying that out loud.

1149
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 4: I feel like a lot of times we hear about

1150
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 4: stories from women after they've gone through the thing, very

1151
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,280
Speaker 4: far removed from it, and I think it's really brave

1152
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:41,839
Speaker 4: to acknowledge it while you're still in it. So I've

1153
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 4: got a praying for thank you, thank you so much,

1154
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 4: just one of those because of early get it out. Yes,

1155
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 4: you know, it's like, don't you wish? Like sometimes you're like,

1156
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:53,399
Speaker 4: can you sign up for the not resilient track of life?

1157
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 4: I know, haven't we had enough going on?

1158
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:56,839
Speaker 1: Ya?

1159
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 4: That was pretty crazy enough? All right, I want to

1160
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 4: be I know you probably have to. I just wish

1161
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 4: we live next door to one another.

1162
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 2: I know. Well, if you ever come into Brooklyn, let

1163
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 2: me know.

1164
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 4: Okay, we gotta do a whole show about devols.

1165
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 2: Oh oh yes, absolutely, yes. There's so much that I

1166
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 2: learned from that.

1167
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: I couldn't get into it. I couldn't get into it.

1168
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 1: It was like five years ago. I couldn't get into

1169
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 1: it too much in the book because yeah, he's my

1170
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 1: co parent and whatever.

1171
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 2: But there's a lot that I learned on that journey.

1172
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, all right, Well, thank you so much for

1173
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 4: joining me on the podcast. Good luck with everything, Stay

1174
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 4: in touch.

1175
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 3: Hey y'all.

1176
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:44,319
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for tuning into this week's Brown

1177
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,319
Speaker 4: Ambition Podcast. If you're wondering, Okay, what can I do now?

1178
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 4: While you can run out and get your copies of

1179
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 4: doctor Blackstock's book and doctor Shepherd's books, you can also

1180
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:54,399
Speaker 4: check out their incredible work. I'm going to put their

1181
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:56,400
Speaker 4: social handles in the show notes.

1182
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 3: For this episode.

1183
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 4: You can DM me at Brown Ambition Podcast on g

1184
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 4: Let me know what you thought of the show, let

1185
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:04,280
Speaker 4: me know if you want to hear more. And lastly,

1186
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 4: like follow the show on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Make

1187
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 4: sure that you share the show with at least one

1188
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:12,439
Speaker 4: or two, or three or five or ten of your

1189
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 4: friends and family members today so that they can also

1190
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:18,320
Speaker 4: help spread the love and grow the show even more.

1191
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 4: And just thank y'all, thank you so much for your

1192
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 4: support and forgiving me this platform. All Right, I'm Mandy Money.

1193
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 4: Until next time, this is Brown Ambition.

1194
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:30,760
Speaker 3: Bye,