1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Tutor Dixon Podcast in the Clay 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: and Book Podcast Network. 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I'm Tutor Dixon and 4 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 2: it is great to have you tuning into our podcast today. 5 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 2: Now we have a lot going on with national security 6 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 2: and foreign relations, especially after this past weekend with a 7 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 2: visit from our Secretary of State Lincoln to Saudi Arabia 8 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 2: and China, and I want to jump into that right 9 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 2: away with my guest today. She is the founder of 10 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 2: Polaris National Security and former Department of State spokesperson Morgan 11 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 2: or Tegas. 12 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: Morgan, thank you for joining us. 13 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 3: Absolutely great to be here. Thank you. 14 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 2: Yes, there's so much going on. I really was like, 15 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 2: where do I even start? But I do want to 16 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 2: start with this trip to China because some interesting stuff happened. 17 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 2: We know that the Secretary of State went over to 18 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 2: China and it was questionable as to whether he was 19 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 2: even going to be allowed to meet with President Ji, 20 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 2: even though Bill Gates had literally just. 21 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: Met with him. What does that look like for the 22 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: Biden administration. 23 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 3: So let's just start from the very beginning of jud 24 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 3: blink and even be going right now. No Secretary of 25 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 3: State has been to China since twenty eighteen. Obviously, I 26 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 3: was in the Trump administration for the last two years 27 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 3: of the administration and served as Pompeo spokesperson, and we 28 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 3: did meet the Chinese, our counterparts on for what they 29 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 3: would call bilateral meetings. That just was a fancy word 30 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 3: for meeting the two sides, or meeting on the heels 31 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 3: of like in g twenty or we met them once 32 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 3: in Hawaii in twenty twenty during COVID, but we never 33 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 3: went to China. And one of the reasons that Pompeo 34 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:45,279 Speaker 3: made that decision, Tutor, is because especially in twenty twenty, 35 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 3: whenever Pompeio was one of the first people in the 36 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 3: world to start calling out China for not being open 37 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 3: about what was really gone with COVID. Actually he did 38 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 3: this in February twenty twenty, and a lot of people, 39 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 3: a lot of people confuse and sort of think that 40 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 3: somehow the US and China relationship is bad because the 41 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 3: United States is upping the rhetoric. It's a very Washington 42 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 3: centric view that you often hear where they where the 43 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 3: thought as well, if we just calm down our rhetoric, 44 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 3: then suddenly the Chinese will change. And I just think 45 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 3: that that, you know, I think that's a very Washington 46 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 3: centric version of what is actually going on. And so 47 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 3: what do I think that blink and should have done. 48 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 3: I'm not opposed to him meeting with the Chinese. That's 49 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 3: the hard work of diplomacy, right, that's what that's what 50 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 3: you have to do. The easy stuff is whenever you are, 51 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,239 Speaker 3: you know, meeting with the Europeans or you know, the 52 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 3: Breads or the Australians, right, these are our friends. The 53 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 3: hard stuff is whenever you're meeting with the Chinese or 54 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 3: the Russians. So for me, I just think the optics 55 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:51,119 Speaker 3: of him going to Beijing gave Shujiping and his leadership 56 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 3: a win. Right, that's going to be all over Chinese media. 57 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 3: I don't see why they could have met, have met 58 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 3: on more neutral grounds. So I don't a lot that 59 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 3: may seem sort of like a minor detail to your listeners. 60 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 3: Who cares where you go to meet, who goes to 61 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 3: whom is really really matters a lot in diplomacy and 62 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 3: foreign policy, And I think I would have if I 63 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 3: were Blincoln, if he really wants to change the status 64 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 3: of the relationship and wants the Chinese to behave better. 65 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 3: I don't think sort of capitulating chasing them, chasing them 66 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:21,679 Speaker 3: to China to have a meeting, begging for them to 67 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 3: meeting for a meeting. If the press reports are accurate, 68 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 3: I don't know that that's the right way to go 69 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 3: about it. Now both sides are putting out sort of happy, 70 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 3: go lucky readout, which is kind of normal for these meetings. 71 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 3: But Secretary Blincoln did tell people on his plane on 72 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 3: the way back that China did not agree to open 73 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 3: up the military to military communication lines. And so probably 74 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 3: a lot of your listeners will remember whenever Austin, who's 75 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 3: the Secretary of Defense, was in Singapore, he asked to 76 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 3: meet with the Chinese with his counterpart, and he was 77 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 3: turned down. And so that's another reason why I really 78 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 3: don't like the optics of the meetings. But I think, 79 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 3: you know, we'll see what actually comes out of it. 80 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 3: But I think not getting the military, the Chinese military 81 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 3: to Pla to start talking to us again just shows 82 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 3: sort of for me, it just shows the intransigence. And 83 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 3: I don't love giving shoes and King a win on 84 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 3: his home soil. 85 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 2: We'll give us the behind the scenes on the relationship 86 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 2: with China right now when you look at this spy 87 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 2: balloon that went across the entire United States, and just 88 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 2: last week we've got President Biden coming out and saying, 89 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 2: I think it was embarrassing for them, But they do 90 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 2: seem to be trying to prove that they have the 91 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 2: upper hand time and time again. You have not seen 92 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 2: Joe Biden come out and condemn them for COVID and 93 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 2: now this spy balloon is embarrassing for them. Does that 94 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 2: seem embarrassing for China to you? 95 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 3: Maybe that it got shot down, but the fact that 96 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 3: it traversed, you know, the entire United States before finally 97 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,559 Speaker 3: getting shot down and it was allowed to essentially finish 98 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 3: its mission, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. 99 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 3: You know. Like I said, I think we have a 100 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 3: mismatch of intentions and actions now between the United States 101 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 3: and China. So we're sort of the Biden administration is 102 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 3: sort of in this position that they want to back 103 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 3: down on the competition with China. They want to green light, 104 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 3: you know, things like more doing more business in China. 105 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 3: You know, one of the I think the fundamental flaws 106 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 3: that the Biden administration pursues with China, tutor is that 107 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 3: they are willing to make concessions for climate change. And 108 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 3: you know, not that I want a greener a better environment. 109 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 3: Who doesn't want that? But I don't believe a thing 110 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 3: that the Chinese Communist Party tells me. And I certainly 111 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 3: don't believe them, you know too, or whatever they make 112 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 3: concessions for climate change, I don't believe them to keep 113 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 3: those promises because they built more coal plants than ever 114 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 3: last year. So in foreign policy, it's rarely black and white, right, 115 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 3: there's always shades of gray. And whenever we like when 116 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 3: Mike Pompeo and I and and others on our team, 117 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 3: well we were meeting, like with the Russians, for example, 118 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 3: there's tons that was wrong in the relationship, and you 119 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 3: have to talk about those things. But then you also 120 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 3: have areas in the real relationship where you think, okay, 121 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 3: maybe the Russians want to actually work with us on 122 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 3: X y Z issue, and so you'll bring that up 123 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 3: as a part of the meeting. So normally what happens 124 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 3: just to give your your listeners and viewers a little insight, 125 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 3: you know, these meetings at a lower level. So not 126 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 3: with Shijin Pain. But you know, at the diplomatic level 127 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 3: lasts for hours and hours you and you cover as 128 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 3: many topics as you can, and both sides are sort 129 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 3: of listening to say, okay, is this the place where 130 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 3: the other side will move right? Is this a place 131 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 3: where we can get a concession? And so you learn 132 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 3: a lot in those you rarely learn a lot actually, 133 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 3: and when you meet with Shuji Pain. I think Blinkin's 134 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 3: meeting was very short. But when I just to go 135 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 3: back to my original point about mismatch of intentions the Chinese, 136 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 3: and you can just see it in the pictures. If 137 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 3: your audience goes and looks at some of the pictures 138 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 3: of Blinkin and Hijin Ping, or blink In in China's 139 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 3: top diplomat, you could see the body language. Blink And 140 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 3: looks very deferential. Shijin Ping has a very you know, austere, 141 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 3: triumphant look his face. He looks like the alpha right 142 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 3: in the in the handshake, in the relationship. And that 143 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 3: also goes back to my original point of giving them 144 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 3: the pr wind on their soil. But I think it 145 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 3: speaks to a bigger issue of where the Chinese communist 146 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 3: Party thinks they are in the world. They think that 147 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 3: they are a rising power. They think that they can 148 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 3: have regional dominance. They think that the West, and this 149 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 3: includes America and Europe, is too decadent, and that their 150 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 3: people won't stand up and fight for them. And they 151 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 3: see their you know, their economy is going through a 152 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 3: little bit of a hard time. But on the whole, right, 153 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 3: the Chinese economy is just dwarfing everyone else on the planet. 154 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 3: So the Chinese feel very very confident. They're very very 155 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 3: assured of themselves. They think that this is their moment 156 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 3: in the sun. 157 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 2: Shouldn't we be a little bit nervous about the fact 158 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 2: that our I mean, we're definitely not balanced on trade. 159 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 2: We're bringing about six hundred billion dollars worth of product 160 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 2: in here and we're only selling them one hundred and 161 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 2: fifty billion. That is really not even on trade. And 162 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 2: then we also have the issue of they are creating 163 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 2: the world's largest navy. I mean, they're getting closer and 164 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 2: closer to the United States. They keep moving their naval 165 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 2: bases closer to the United States. I think that American people. 166 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 2: It's interesting because when I talk about this publicly, you 167 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 2: have folks you know, the average American on both sides, 168 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 2: Some of them are just they just know that there's 169 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,559 Speaker 2: the Communist party there and they have some fear over China. 170 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 2: And then you have the other side saying, we've worked 171 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 2: with China for years, which we truly have, but their 172 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty year plan or one hundred year 173 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,439 Speaker 2: plan has been different than America's eight year plan, you know, 174 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 2: every eight years. So what is the truth when you 175 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 2: see China getting to this point of power? I mean, 176 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 2: they really do have a lot of power. It's not 177 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 2: as though they don't. And so could they if we 178 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 2: make the wrong moves? Could they overtake the position of 179 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:49,839 Speaker 2: being the world leader? 180 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 3: They're on the way to do that right now. I mean, 181 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 3: you just brought up so many great points up there, 182 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 3: and let me try to tackle it by starting holistically. 183 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 3: So you know about if you look at forty years ago, 184 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 3: if you look at Nixon going to China, right, and 185 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 3: and the thought and Nixon was was very you know, 186 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 3: he was tough on China, right, he was tough on 187 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,079 Speaker 3: the communists the thought at the time, and then later 188 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 3: in the Bill Clinton administration when he also pursued moves 189 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 3: to open up and in the Bush administration, George W. 190 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 3: Bush in the first term of when we allowed the 191 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 3: Chinese into the WTTO, the World Trade Organization, all of 192 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 3: those moves were based under this fundamental theory of and 193 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 3: I think it made sense at the time. You know, 194 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,319 Speaker 3: it was not a dumb move by any means. Of 195 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 3: Nixon going to China. The thought was, if we open 196 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 3: up to China, if we start trading with them, if 197 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 3: we start doing business with them, then the Communist Party 198 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 3: is going to see the benefits of capitalism. They're going 199 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 3: to see millions and millions of people coming out of poverty, 200 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 3: and that will moderate their behavior. That was the That 201 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 3: was the theory. And again it was a theory that 202 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 3: makes sense and actually worked for a while. But what 203 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 3: we did, unfortunately, and listen, we were really busy after 204 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 3: nine to eleven, but we were unfortunately, really distracted from 205 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 3: some of the realities. I think that it was way 206 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 3: too weak of a trade deal whenever we let China 207 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 3: into the WTO to begin with, and we ignored for 208 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 3: years and years and years the theft of our intellectual property. 209 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 3: We've ignored the way Chinese, I mean American businesses are 210 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 3: treated totally differently than Chinese businesses have been have been here, 211 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 3: and when Shixiping came to power, everything, if you go 212 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 3: back and if everybody googles the Rose Garden ceremony, the 213 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 3: Rose Garden press conference in twenty fifteen, that president then 214 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 3: President Obama was shixhiping everything, that Shi Jinping promised that 215 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 3: he wasn't going to militarize his self chinesee that he 216 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 3: would stop the intellectual property theft. If you go through 217 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 3: the list, he's not keeping any of those promises. And 218 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 3: so for me, I'm sort of think, well, of course, 219 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,959 Speaker 3: why would the communists keep their promises. This doesn't surprise 220 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 3: me at all. I think what happened is whenever we 221 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 3: really how egregious China's behavior was, we kept making we 222 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 3: as a society, and this is Republicans and Democrats, we 223 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 3: kept either willfully ignoring it and saying, you know what, 224 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 3: they're going to send the power and so we just 225 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 3: need to help them along the way. We kept willfully 226 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 3: ignoring it, especially when we were very busy in I 227 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 3: Rock and Afghanistan, and that led to where we are today, 228 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 3: that the Chinese have gotten away with murders, so to speak, 229 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 3: for a long time, and they don't necessarily fear this 230 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 3: administration at all. 231 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 2: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 232 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:39,839 Speaker 2: the Tutor Dixon Podcast. They've certainly killed a lot of 233 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 2: businesses in the United States. And I'll just make a 234 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,719 Speaker 2: comment on what you said, because I think a lot 235 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 2: of people who are not in the manufacturing world are 236 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 2: not bringing a product and may not totally understand what 237 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 2: you're referring to. But for example, we had a steel 238 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 2: foundry and there were oftentimes when we would make a 239 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 2: part and the Chinese would copy that part and go 240 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 2: to our American customer and say, we can give this 241 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 2: to you for you know, fifty cents a pound cheaper. 242 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 2: That is a massive win for that company. And even 243 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 2: though the American company knew that the technology was stolen, 244 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 2: knew that they had stolen the drawing and everything, they 245 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 2: would go with that the Chinese company and pull the 246 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 2: American work. And so you may have Caterpillar or a 247 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 2: company like that that is a strong American company, But 248 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 2: when you look at the suppliers who used to be 249 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,079 Speaker 2: those suppliers, that are the I mean, my dad used 250 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,719 Speaker 2: to say, we're like the Hamburger. We're like making the 251 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 2: hamburger for McDonald's, right, But suddenly all of those suppliers 252 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 2: that are similar to the hamburger for McDonald's are no 253 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 2: longer American made. 254 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: And that happened time and time again. 255 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 2: And we you know, we've heard so many people say, 256 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 2: when are we bringing American manufacturing back? It's not so 257 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 2: easy to just rebuild a manufacturing plant or build a 258 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 2: new one. 259 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 3: Well, nobody knows this better than you. Being from Michigan. 260 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 3: My husband, by the way, tutor as a GM guy, 261 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 3: so he's in Detroit a lot. It feels like his 262 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 3: second home. So he's honorary citizen of yours. 263 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: Wonderful. 264 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, but you I love the example that you just gave. 265 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 3: And I think this is so important because people often 266 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 3: don't think, well, why does foreign policy matter to me? 267 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 3: What should I care? Who cares of what the Chinese doing? 268 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 3: You just gave a real world example of how foreign 269 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 3: policy and national security actually affect our everyday lives. Why 270 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 3: all of this matters? I think anybody at Michigan and 271 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 3: in the Rest Belt in general. The story that you told, 272 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 3: I hear those types of stories all the time. And 273 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 3: by the way, you've seen offices and buildings. Recently, financial 274 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 3: service American financial services companies offices have been rated. You know, 275 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 3: American companies are starting to be treated very very differently 276 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 3: in China. And why does that matter Because some people 277 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 3: would say, well, our rhetoric here in the United States 278 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 3: is tough against is tough against China. It gets back 279 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,679 Speaker 3: to this sort of premise that I think is flawed, 280 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 3: where people say, if America just talks nicer to China, 281 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 3: and by the way, this could be the same for 282 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:08,719 Speaker 3: Iran or Russia or you know, you could go through 283 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 3: the list. Well, if we just talk nicer to them, 284 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 3: we're raising the rhetoric. You know, ask the Chinese neighbors, right, 285 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 3: Ask Vietnam, Ask the Philippines, Ask Japan, Ask South Korea, 286 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 3: ask Australia, ask all of these people what it's like 287 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 3: to be, you know, neighbors to the Chinese Communist Party 288 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 3: and the threat that they know that they face in 289 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 3: the region. So we've got to get over this totally 290 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 3: American centric, like, you know, view of well if we 291 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 3: just calm down, if we just toned down the rhetoric. 292 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 3: And I used to hear this all the time in 293 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 3: the Trump administration. As you can imagine, Tutor, and it 294 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 3: used to just drive me wildly. Well, Trump is saying X, 295 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 3: and Trump is doing this, and I said, yes, and 296 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 3: these dictators respect him, they understand where he stands, you know. 297 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 3: They I can tell you the things like the very 298 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 3: first meeting between Tony B. Lincoln, who's the Secretary of 299 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 3: State and Jake Sullivan, who's the nationals advise it with 300 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 3: the Chinese, was not long, if they do, the administration 301 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 3: had begun, and it was in Alaska, and the Chinese 302 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 3: publicly in front of the press, completely walked all over 303 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 3: Blincoln and Sullivan went on a twenty minute rant in 304 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 3: front of the media. It was embarrassing for them. And 305 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 3: I had a lot of reporters, Tutor, that were texting 306 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 3: me saying, oh my god, what would Pompeio have done? 307 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 3: And I said, well, this just never would have happened. 308 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 3: It didn't happen. I said, I don't even know how 309 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 3: to answer that question, because because the Chinese would have 310 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 3: never tried something like that in front of us. I mean, 311 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 3: I think Pompeo would have, you know, would have absolutely 312 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 3: bitten their head off if they tried it, and they 313 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 3: knew it and right, so it's not. Yes there were 314 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 3: you know, yes there was tough rhetoric. Yes, we did 315 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 3: not go easy on China. I actually think the fact 316 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 3: that we were tougher on them makes the world a better, 317 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 3: a safer place. I think the reason why the Russians 318 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 3: invaded Ukraine is because they thought they could get away 319 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 3: with it, right, And so this fallacy that Trump talks 320 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 3: too tough. 321 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 2: Right, they have had a strange alliance with China. Now, 322 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 2: that is all also concerning when you see that President 323 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 2: g has been meeting with Putin and he's saying, I 324 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 2: think what people don't understand is that he's coming out 325 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 2: and saying, oh, I can broker peace, and that's not 326 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 2: exactly where we want China to be. Is the one 327 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 2: claiming to broker piece. That is a dangerous place. That's 328 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 2: a sign of what's to come. He wants to be 329 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 2: the world leader. He's saying, trust me, and that is 330 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 2: what happens when somebody who has his intentions and has 331 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 2: treated his own countryman the way he has, ends up 332 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 2: taking over and we end up in a world war. 333 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 3: Tutor, color me impressed, because you really know your foreign policy. 334 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 3: You're right now, I will tell you the people who 335 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 3: are super dorks like me have been paying attention to 336 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 3: Putin and Hijin Ping meeting for a long time. I'd 337 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 3: say for the past ten to twelve years. The two 338 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 3: of them have had a very close relationship. It has 339 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 3: been the two of them for the like I said, 340 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 3: roughly the past ten to twelve years, Hijin Ping and 341 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 3: Putin have met with each other more than they have 342 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 3: met with any other world leader. Just recently, Shijing Ping 343 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 3: said that that China and Russia have a no limits partnership. 344 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 3: They said there was going to be changed coming to 345 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 3: the world order that the world had not seen in 346 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 3: one hundred years. This is all stuff that Hijinping is saying. 347 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 3: So and I'm glad you brought them up meeting because 348 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 3: there's this sort of no argument that I that I 349 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 3: think is a fallacy, which is that we can somehow 350 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 3: peel Russia away from China, maybe like twelve years ago 351 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 3: or fifteen years ago. But he's been best friends, he's 352 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 3: been best He's on the international stage with Shijinping for 353 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 3: a very long time, and the Chinese still buy Russian energy. 354 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 3: I mean, China Russia in many ways is becoming a 355 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 3: vassal state to China. So I think that, you know, 356 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 3: too many people discount the closeness between Shijinping and Putin. 357 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 3: I saw Vivek or whatever his name is his running 358 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 3: for president, said like, oh, I'll just take Putin away 359 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 3: from Shijinping. I'm like that makes zero sense. Like that 360 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 3: would have been smart fifteen years ago. We probably should 361 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 3: have done that fifteen years ago, but we didn't, So 362 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 3: now we have to. And you made a really great 363 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 3: point that people need to understand. And one of your 364 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,959 Speaker 3: earlier questions to me, you talked about how the Chinese 365 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 3: navy is bigger than our navy. Now you know, we 366 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 3: can't even if we get it, even if we doubled 367 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 3: our defense budget, we don't have the ship building capacity 368 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 3: for our ships and our submarines to keep up with 369 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 3: the China. So we're going to have to be incredibly creative. 370 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 3: We are no longer the world's largest military now. Chinese 371 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,919 Speaker 3: military equipment has not been tested in a war in 372 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 3: a long time since Vietnam. So so there's there's you know, 373 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 3: so there's who knows how it could actually be tested. 374 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 3: We saw the Russians have embarrassed themselves once they were 375 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 3: tested with the Ukrainians. U. Sorry did I say in 376 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 3: the Vietnam? Sorry, I'm in Korea. And so so when 377 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 3: you look at the Chinese, when you look at the 378 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 3: Chinese Navy, and I think, you know, even if I 379 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 3: got my wish list from Congress tutor and got the 380 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 3: our navy budget double tomorrow, we still don't have the 381 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 3: ship building capacity in order to know. 382 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 2: We don't actually even have the ability to meet the 383 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 2: metallurgical specs. I mean, we have to get that from Europe. 384 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 2: And that's to me terrifying is that we have to 385 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 2: go overseas to be able to build military equipment for 386 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 2: our navy. We cannot build it in the United States 387 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 2: right now. 388 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 3: There is nothing more important than you're doing that. Definitely 389 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 3: may learn about this, and I'm very very glad you 390 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 3: brought it up, because I think it does require us 391 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 3: to have to start to think smartly, because we have 392 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 3: to think. Okay, the Pentagon has said that Xi jin 393 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 3: Qing wants his military, wants the PLA RTE it ready 394 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 3: to fight with to fight potentially for time one if 395 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 3: there's you know, if we need to have a military 396 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 3: you know, military incident or whatever over over Taiwan Hijin 397 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 3: King wants that incursion to happen by twenty twenty seven. 398 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 3: That's you said, he wants his military ready by then. 399 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 3: So if we look at it from our perspect again, 400 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 3: because as you just said, we don't have the capacity 401 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 3: to build everything that we need here, much less having 402 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 3: the budget, we're going to have to think really, really 403 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 3: creatively about how we defeat China. You know, we're going 404 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 3: to need new innovations in defense. And by the way, 405 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 3: there is some interesting stuff going on the battlefield in 406 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,959 Speaker 3: Ukraine right You can see these and expensive drones that 407 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 3: Ukraine has been using that has been quite effective. So 408 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 3: there's ways in which we can hope for creative technological 409 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,719 Speaker 3: advancement that we give us an edge over the Chinese. 410 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 3: But we're not going to be able to go but 411 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 3: we're not going to be able to go ship for ship. 412 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 2: That's a scary thought though, and I think that people 413 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 2: are not understanding that if you have China coming around Alaska, 414 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 2: and you have China coming up to the United States, 415 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 2: and you have Russia surrounding the Western Europe essentially and 416 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,439 Speaker 2: creeping across Ukraine getting to Poland, where are they going 417 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 2: to go next China. People say, well, Russia doesn't have 418 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 2: the money, but China does have the money, so the 419 00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 2: two of them together are very powerful. 420 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 3: And that's why I do think that it doesn't doesn't 421 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 3: help us to have a strengthen Russian army, which they 422 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 3: don't have at the moment. But when everybody talks about 423 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 3: what should we do visa v Russian Ukraine, first of all, 424 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 3: it's so important tutor to actually understand and learn the 425 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 3: lessons of deterrence and why deterrence failed. And I'm not 426 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 3: even trying to be political about it. A lot of 427 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 3: people think I'm just trying to slam the administration, and 428 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 3: I'm really not, Like, we have to learn why deterrence failed. 429 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 3: This administration said that their goal was to deter Putin 430 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 3: from invading Ukraine. They failed at deterrence, and we have 431 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 3: to be honest with ourselves about why, so that we 432 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 3: can try to work on deterring China from a military 433 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 3: incursion into Taiwan. And by the way, that could happen 434 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 3: with whomever was the next president. Also, earlier I kept 435 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 3: tripping over my words. I was talking about the Sino 436 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 3: of Vietnamese War, so I apologize. I started to get 437 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 3: my wars and conflicts mixed up. I was thinking of 438 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,360 Speaker 3: the last time the Chinese fought the v I means, 439 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 3: which was, you know, not that impressive if you look 440 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,360 Speaker 3: at historically. But they're in a very very different place now. 441 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 2: Well, I know, I appreciate that. In addition to all 442 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 2: of this, I think there are still a lot of 443 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 2: questions from Americans about COVID origins, and that has never 444 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 2: been brought up from anyone in the Biden administration. Why 445 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 2: do you think that they are hesitant to even say anything. 446 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 3: You don't know. It's really bizarre because of the you know, 447 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 3: millions of people around the world that passed away, that 448 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 3: died from you know, from COVID. You know, this is 449 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 3: something that they inflicted on the world. I don't know 450 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 3: why they're so hesitant because it did come from China, 451 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 3: we know. Listen. I told reporters back in probably March 452 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 3: of twenty twenty, spring of twenty twenty, I gave a 453 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 3: bunch of anchors, the top anchors in America. I gave 454 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:57,439 Speaker 3: them unclassified documents. It was very very big folder of 455 00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 3: research that our Headshinau had done. And this is a 456 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 3: by the way, who grew up in China, you know, 457 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,120 Speaker 3: Mandarin was his native language. We went through, we found 458 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 3: all the reasons that we didn't find the smoking gun, 459 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,959 Speaker 3: but we had enough evidence to show that the lab 460 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 3: theory should not be dismissed. That it made that it 461 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 3: made the most sense. And you know, Democrats sort of 462 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 3: they ran in twenty twenty on COVID, and I think 463 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 3: because they ran on it, we're elected on COVID. Perhaps 464 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 3: if they sort of admitted that this was actually something 465 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 3: that the Chinese could have prevented. I have absolutely no 466 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 3: clue if it was if it was intentionally leak from 467 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 3: the lab, or if it was just an accident because 468 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 3: they had shoddy procedures at that lab. I tend to 469 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 3: believe in competence over conspiracy, because you know, people are 470 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 3: pretty incompetence, so that tends to be my go to. 471 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 1: But I think that's why people call for an investigation. 472 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 3: Absolutely, that's why we should have an investigation. And so 473 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 3: I don't know why they're so fearful to talk about it. 474 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 3: You know, I think there is a genuine worry about 475 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 3: about angering the Chinese and the writer going too far, 476 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 3: and I just don't think that's the way we should 477 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 3: be approaching it. I think that we shouldn't be afraid 478 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 3: to speak truth to power, and we shouldn't be able 479 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 3: to be afraid to bring up these things. I remember 480 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 3: very vividly in February twenty twenty when I was with 481 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 3: Pompeo in Munich at the Munich Security Conference. It was 482 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 3: one of the last things that happened on the world 483 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 3: stage before everything sort of shut down, and people looked 484 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 3: at him like he had five eyes when he started 485 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 3: ranting in his speech and saying, listen to Chinese Communist 486 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 3: Party is hiding this from us, And no one had 487 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 3: locked down yet. Everyone sort of knew COVID was coming, 488 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 3: but I think people were in denial, and I remember 489 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 3: people sort of like giving him funny looks during his 490 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 3: speech at the time. But he knew exactly what was 491 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 3: happening and what the Chinese were trying to cover up, 492 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 3: and he was a very clear and voice on it. 493 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 3: And you know, unfortunately, like I said, the only thing 494 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 3: I can think is that it must be political for 495 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 3: the Democrats because they ran on COVID, and if they 496 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,199 Speaker 3: admit that, you know that they were wrong about the 497 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 3: wet market and wrong about the lab league. Perhaps I 498 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 3: think it'll cost them politically. I don't know why you 499 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 3: wouldn't just admit that it's that it is a legitimate 500 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 3: thing to discover, because they don't want to admit Trump's right. 501 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: The only thing I can think of, I mean, that's 502 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: probably right. 503 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 2: Speaking of all of that, I just want to ask 504 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,879 Speaker 2: you one question about the election coming up. Obviously, we 505 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 2: have a presidential election coming up, and we see. 506 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: A lot of culture war out there. 507 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 2: But do you think that this starts to take a 508 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 2: center stage once we get closer to the election. We've 509 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 2: seen now this visit with Lincoln. Do you think we're 510 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 2: going to see some of these candidates say, wait a minute, 511 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 2: Wait a minute, this is a threat. We have to 512 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 2: have somebody that's going to address the threat. 513 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 3: I hope so, because I think as much as people 514 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 3: like to talk about some of the sillier, you know, 515 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 3: stuff on politics and who's up, who's down in this poll, 516 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,959 Speaker 3: in that poll, whatevery American needs to think about, in 517 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 3: my mind, is what we talked about towards the beginning 518 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 3: of your show, is that Shijinping has directed the PLA 519 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 3: to be ready for a military incursion into Taiwan by 520 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 3: twenty twenty seven. So whoever we elect as the next 521 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 3: president could be the person that's overseeing a conflict which 522 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 3: would lose, which would have direct US involvement. This would 523 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 3: be World War two lever conflict. We're talking about losing 524 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 3: a number of aircraft career heres just in the first week, 525 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 3: not to mention the amount of American service members that 526 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 3: we would lose in that type of war. And we've 527 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,199 Speaker 3: got to do absolutely everything that we can to deter it. 528 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 2: And really, I think people need to understand that the 529 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 2: future is technology. Technology comes mostly out of Taiwan. It 530 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 2: is very important that we keep China out of Taiwan, 531 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 2: and that's why you see this massive potential conflict in 532 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 2: the future. And that's why we need a strong leader 533 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 2: on national security. And we appreciate what you do with 534 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 2: Polaris national Security. I'm so excited that you're still involved. 535 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 2: I loved talking to you today. I thought this was 536 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 2: amazing and I hope our listeners enjoyed it. But I 537 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 2: learned a lot, so I'd love to have you back sometime. 538 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 2: Morgan Artegis, thank you for joining us today. 539 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 3: I would love to come back. Thank you and Hopefully 540 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:58,640 Speaker 3: we're on TV together sometime soon. 541 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:00,919 Speaker 1: That would be great. Oh, that would be awesome. 542 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 2: Well, thank you again and thank you all for joining 543 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 2: us on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. As always, for this 544 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 2: episode and others, go to tutordisonpodcast dot com. You can 545 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 2: subscribe right there or wherever you get your podcasts. iHeartRadio, app, 546 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 2: Apple Podcast. Join us the next time on the Tutor 547 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 2: Dixon Podcast. Have a great day.