1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: Hey, I'm open to the short stuff. I'm Josh, and 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: there's Chuck and Jerry's here too, sitting in for Dave. 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 1: So this is a good old fashioned short stuff, the 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: oh Man. 5 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 2: Edition Vigilante Justice. Thank you to Perplexity and YouTube and 6 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 2: how Stuff Works and Morbidology for the information on the 7 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 2: kind of shocking story of mary Anne Bachmeyer. 8 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, so, Maryann Bachmeier. You say vigilanti, you usually think 9 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 1: guys in the Old West, right now. Maryon Bachmeyer was 10 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: a woman in Germany and Lubeck, I believe, Germany in 11 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties who carried out essentially an execution in 12 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 1: the middle of open court to kill the murder of 13 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 1: her daughter. And if you want to start talking about 14 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: moral quandaries and ethical twists, this is about as good 15 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: as it gets. 16 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, as bad as it gets on May fifth, night 17 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 2: eight And you know, trigger warning because this involves sexual 18 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 2: violence and violence against a child, which is the worst 19 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 2: thing you can imagine. But her daughter Anna was abducted 20 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 2: at the age of seven by a man named Klaus Grobowski. 21 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 2: He was a thirty five year old butcher. He was 22 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 2: out on probation. He had a history of crimes against 23 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 2: children and sexual offenses, and little Anna got in an 24 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 2: argument with her mother apparently that morning skipped school, and 25 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 2: Grabowski lured her to his apartment because he said that 26 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 2: he had cats that she could play with. 27 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 3: He sexually assaulted her over the. 28 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,479 Speaker 2: Course of several hours and then strangled her to death, 29 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 2: put her body in a cardboard box and disposed of 30 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 2: it in a canal. And that is the most awful 31 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 2: part of the story. So I'm glad that parts over with. 32 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And mary Anne was a single mom, 33 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: did you say that? No, So Grobowski was actually turned 34 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: in by his fiance, and like you said, he was 35 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: out on probation. He'd actually been chemically castrated before and 36 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: his chemical castration was reversed when he met his fiance 37 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: while he was in prison, and so he was caught 38 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: fairly quickly, I believe, and he was put on trial 39 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: for the murder of Anna. And during this trial, and 40 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: within the first I think couple of days, his defense 41 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: was I didn't sexually abuse her. She said that she 42 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: was going to tell her mom that I did sexually 43 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: abuse her if I didn't give her money. So that's 44 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: why I killed her, And that caused mary Anne Bachmeyer 45 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: to absolutely snap. Not only was her young seven year 46 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 1: old daughter sexually assaulted and murdered, now she was being 47 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: slandered in open court by the guy who murdered her. 48 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and gaslet. The whole country is being gaslet by 49 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 2: this guy. So on day three of the trial, she 50 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 2: comes into court and she has smuggled in a gun, 51 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 2: a small caliber of twenty two barretta pistol, and she 52 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 2: shot him very calmly, apparently, walked over, fired eight shots 53 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 2: at him. I saw seven and other places, but both 54 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 2: places I saw that she hit him six times, killed 55 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 2: him on the spot. And the court was going nuts, obviously, 56 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 2: but apparently she was very calm through the whole thing 57 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 2: with her demeanor, said things like I wanted to kill him, 58 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 2: he killed my daughter. I wanted to shoot him in 59 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 2: the face, but I shot him in the back. I 60 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 2: hope he dies. 61 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, and her just calmly saying this stuff too, while 62 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: the rest of the court's going crazy. I mean that's 63 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: movie type stuff, you know, Yeah, for sure. So I 64 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: say we take a little break and come back and 65 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: talk about how people felt about this Vigilanti execution in Germany. 66 00:03:51,280 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 2: After this, all right, So the vigilanti killing has happened 67 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 2: in court in front of everybody, so like, you know, 68 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 2: kind of no doubt what happened. As to her guilt goes. 69 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 2: Details emerged about, you know, her past, and you know, 70 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 2: how what kind of a mother she was. Some people 71 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 2: at some point like questioned her grief a little bit 72 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 2: criticized her parenting, but most people, a lot of people 73 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 2: were like, heck, yeah, you know, you avenged the death 74 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 2: of your daughter. They're in plain view and you took 75 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 2: care of things very quickly and efficiently. And one hundred 76 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 2: thousand dollars deutsch mars were raised for her legal defense 77 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 2: because of that right. 78 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: And I have to say I looked into it. It's 79 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: pretty gross. The people who are like, oh, I don't know. 80 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 1: I questioned her moral character. She had a kid. She 81 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 1: had two kids out of wedlock, one at sixteen, one 82 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: at eighteen, and she adopted both of them off right 83 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: after they were born because she was sixteen and then eighteen, 84 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: when she was twenty three, she had Anna. She made 85 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: the decision to raise her on her own as a 86 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: single mom. And then so that was like her like 87 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: her past that people were like, oh, I don't know 88 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: about that. And then her behavior after Anna died. She 89 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: apparently married and spent a lot of time at work. 90 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: She worked in a pub, and that was enough for 91 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: people to be like, I don't know about this lady. 92 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: I was okay with her murdering this guy in open court, 93 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: but she's spending time at a pub and I've lost 94 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:42,799 Speaker 1: faith in her. 95 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, which surprises me. For Germany, because they loved 96 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 2: their beer. 97 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I should also say this is West Germany, and 98 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: I don't know if Germans has referred to it historically 99 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: like that still or if they prefer people just say Germany, 100 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: because this is nineteen eighty and nineteen eighty one and 101 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: it was definitely still West Germany that we're talking about. 102 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: So if you're German, right in and let. 103 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 2: Us know, Yeah, yeah, for sure. So she initially had 104 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 2: a murder charge put on her. They eventually convicted her 105 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 2: of manslaughter and unlawful possession of a firearm. That always 106 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 2: cracks me up when a tiny little offense is tacked 107 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 2: on a six year prison sentence. 108 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 3: She served three and got out. 109 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 2: People thought that that was a fairly lenient sentence for 110 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 2: obvious reasons. And if you talk about a pretty evenly 111 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 2: split survey. There was a survey about a year later 112 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 2: in eighty three by the Allensbach Institute, and twenty eight 113 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 2: percent felt the sentence was just right, twenty seven percent 114 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 2: thought it was too harsh, twenty five percent thought she 115 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 2: got off too lightly, and twenty percent weren't sure. So 116 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 2: it's very evenly pretty much evenly divided as to how 117 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 2: people felt about her even serving those three years. 118 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, and plus it also sparked a lot of debates 119 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: about other stuff too, in particular whether or not the 120 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: German or German court system was a little too lenient 121 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: with repeat offenders. Remember h Grabowski was out on bail 122 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: or on probation. I'm sorry, So that was a big, 123 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: a big discussion. And also, like you know what, like 124 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: what right does a person like that have, Do you 125 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: have like a moral right to murder somebody who did 126 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: that to your child? And then also does that right 127 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: extend to your if somebody did that to your husband 128 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: or your wife or your brother, Like is it just 129 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: specifically is it really narrow that only a mother could 130 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: do that only for her young child, only under circumstances 131 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: like this. This is the stuff that the people of 132 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:42,239 Speaker 1: Germany were talking about at the time. 133 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. 134 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 2: She served those three years, was released in June of 135 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 2: eighty five, and obviously wanted to sort of get away 136 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 2: from all that. She withdrew from the public eye. Pretty 137 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 2: you know, pretty smart move and moved to Nigeria. She 138 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 2: married a tea, moved to Nigeria. She was there through 139 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 2: the nineties, but got divorced after a few years, and 140 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 2: then after her divorce, went to Sicily and developed pancreatic cancer, 141 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 2: a terminal case of cancer. So that eventually got her 142 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 2: to go back to Germany. Such that she was, you know, 143 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 2: in the mid nineties, like occasionally interviewed and stuff like that. 144 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 3: Again because she was back there. 145 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 2: In the mid nineties, she was interviewed for a television 146 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 2: show where I don't know why she felt like she 147 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 2: needed to admit this because everyone knew what happened, but 148 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 2: sort of was like, yeah, I did this, I meant 149 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 2: to do it, and just passed away about a year 150 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 2: later in nineteen ninety six, at the young age of 151 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 2: forty six from cancer. 152 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think what she was saying too was that 153 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: she finally admitted that it was premeditated, because that's not 154 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 1: the case against her. Hinged on. Was it something that 155 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: she had planned out. 156 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 3: And you brought the gun into course? 157 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but was it planned rather than that? And 158 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: like the prosecution apparently had firearms experts that were like, 159 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: she hit this guy six out of seven or eight. 160 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: However many shots she fired times like you actually would 161 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: have to have firearms training the average person would do 162 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: to for that number of hits. So like people were saying, like, 163 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: she definitely thought about this planet it out, prepared for it, 164 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: and she finally admitted in nineteen ninety five that she did. 165 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: And she had a really hard life man dead at 166 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: forty six of pancreatic cancer. And I also read that 167 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: she herself also had been sexually abused as a child too, 168 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: So she had a really hard, hard to add life. 169 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: You know. 170 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel for h for sure. 171 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:36,719 Speaker 2: She was late to rest beside her daughter there in 172 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 2: burg Tor Cemetery in Lubek, Germany. 173 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 3: YEP. 174 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: So if you're in Lubec, Germany and you want to 175 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: go pay your respects to marry Anne or Anna or both, 176 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 1: you can. 177 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:48,199 Speaker 3: Do that, that's right. 178 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 2: And this certainly is something so people talk about over there, especially, 179 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 2: you know, as far as all the kind of things 180 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 2: we were saying, and certainly we're not weighing in on 181 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 2: that here far as vigilanti justice goes. But the world 182 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 2: was probably a better place without that guy walking around. 183 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 1: Probably hard to disagree with that, Chuck, and I think 184 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: before we say anything else. Short stuff is that. 185 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 2: One stuff you should know is a production of iHeartRadio. 186 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 3: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 187 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.