WEBVTT - America's Thirst for Authoritarianism 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:14.560 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:19.160 Meet your Girl Danielle Moody, recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:22.400 I want to bring your attention to an op ed 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:26.079 that was written last week by Charles Blow in The 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:32.760 New York Times entitle America's thirst for authoritarianism, and I 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:35.159 want to bring it to your attention because as I 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:42.559 continue to be concerned, which is an understatement about the 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:46.200 state of our democracy and the willingness of some people 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:50.760 to just let the whole thing go, this piece really 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:54.920 stood out to me with stark reasoning as to where 0:00:55.000 --> 0:01:00.120 people are and what the risk is right now. And 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:03.440 I don't think that people are truly seeing what the 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:07.280 risk is in the behavior, in the antics, or in 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:09.960 the language of I'm going to vote my values. I'm 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:12.920 not voting for Biden. You know, I'm going to sit 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:15.880 this one out. And what that means across the board. 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:19.160 First of all, we're not just talking about the presidential 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:21.200 When people decide not to vote, that means that they 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:23.399 don't show up at the polls at all, which means 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:26.880 that there is no vote for governors and state legislatures. 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:30.560 Those things that we are recognizing more and more are 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:35.640 incredibly important into having a check in balance on a 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:39.400 right wing authoritarian wanna be that is in the governor's mansion. 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:44.200 Look no further than Virginia, because the state legislature was 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:46.959 put back in Democratic hands. Guess who doesn't have the 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:53.120 ability to institute his fifteen week abortion plan. Youngkin, Right, 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:56.560 Glenn Youngin was not only getting ready to probably launch 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.880 a presidential bid, but he was getting ready to put 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:04.680 into place a fifteen week abortion ban in Virginia. And 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:09.320 because the state legislature turned blue, they had the veto 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:12.040 power to be able to deny him the ability to 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:17.560 deny women and people with uterus access to bodily autonomy. Right, 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:19.839 So when people say, well, I'm not going to vote 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:23.240 for Biden, well are you going to the voting booth 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:25.920 at all? Because then we're looking at your school board 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:28.760 who is deciding what books to put on the shelf 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:32.200 or to just put them all right under lock and 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:37.400 key if it's left up to Republicans. Right, voting down 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:41.440 ballot matters just as much, if not more, these days 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:44.800 than voting up ballot. So for those people who continued 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.560 to think that like this is a privilege that can't 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.840 be taken away. I say, look no further than fucking 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:56.880 abortion right. If people had maybe taken it seriously back 0:02:56.919 --> 0:03:00.480 in twenty sixteen, when Hillary Clinton was set unding the 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:04.080 fucking alarm bells about the ability to appoint Supreme Court 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:07.239 justices and what kind of damage Donald Trump was gonna 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:11.840 do right two hour democracy. If people had heeded her warning, 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:14.359 we wouldn't be in the fucking position that we're in 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:18.840 because those Third Party wanted to be like Jill Stein. 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:22.800 Goers maybe would have thought fucking twice. So I would 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:25.200 love for us as Americans not to make the same 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:29.079 mistakes over and over and over again. So Charles Blow 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:32.079 writes this in his op ed in The New York 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:40.320 Times entitled America's thirst for Authoritarianism. Trump surely appeals to 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:43.480 those who want a president who will simply bulldoze through 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:47.400 that bureaucracy, or at least express contempt for it and 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:52.320 is willing to threaten it. Furthermore, Trump's chances will probably 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.600 be helped by the portion of the electorate misjudging the 0:03:55.720 --> 0:04:00.200 very utility of voting. There are still too many citizens 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:03.800 who think of a vote, particularly for president, as something 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:07.280 to throw to a person they like rather than being 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:10.480 cast for the candidate and a party more likely to 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:14.920 advance the policies they need. And there are too many 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:18.400 who think that a vote should be withheld from a 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:23.279 more preferable candidate as punishment for not delivering every single 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:27.479 thing on their wish lists, that choosing not to vote 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:31.520 at all is a sensible act of political protests rather 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:37.800 than a relinquishing of control to others. Abstinence doesn't empower 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:42.919 it neoters if you want a democracy to thrive. The 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:46.680 idea that voting is a choice is itself an illusion. 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:51.279 Voting is about survival, and survival isn't a choice. It 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:55.440 is an imperative. It's an instinct. It's a tool one 0:04:55.600 --> 0:05:00.000 uses for self advancement and self preservation. It's an instrument, 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:04.159 and you use to decrease chances of harm and increase 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:08.560 chances of betterment. It is naive to use it solely 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:12.839 to co sign an individual's character. Not to say that 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:17.200 character doesn't count, it does, but rather that its primacy 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:23.520 is a fallacy. Voting isn't just an expression of your worldview, 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:30.719 but also a manifestation of your insistence on safety and security. 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:35.560 That is it, folks, That's it. In a nutshell. So, 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:40.160 like I have been saying, I encourage folks, as you're 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:43.800 getting ready to potentially gather with friends and with family 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:48.599 for the holiday season, that you engage in thoughtful conversation 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:52.080 and dialogue, that you put down your phones, that you 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:55.240 put down the aggression, and that you get to the 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:59.200 heart of the matter. Because what is at stake, dear friends, 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:03.680 isn't just oh, this thing we call democracy, It is 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:11.560 our very safety right as citizens of this country. There 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:15.559 will be no one who is safe other than those 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:21.280 that pledge their full allegiance and loyalty above all else 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:27.440 to Donald Trump. Everyone else will be at risk and 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:31.880 risk of what. Well, I'll allow your imaginations to run wild, 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:37.640 or rather just take some time going through the history books, 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:41.200 or rather just look around at the instability that we 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.880 are seeing right now, the wars that have outbroken, the 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:48.040 devastation that is being wielded against those that are seen 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:54.920 as villains from birth, whether it is deprivation of electricity, food, water, gas, 0:06:56.120 --> 0:07:00.360 the inability to hold jobs, to go to school, all 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:04.200 of those things, all of those things will be able 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:09.279 to happen under a second Trump administration. And if you 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:12.360 think that you will have the opportunity to then cast 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:18.600 another vote four years later. You will be the full 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:22.600 coming up next my conversation with our friend, our in 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:33.400 house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel. Folks. As always when we 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:36.200 have the opportunity each week to chat with our in 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:40.840 house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzl, we are always thrilled. On 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:47.000 this occasion, Jonathan. As we are recording this, the Supreme 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:52.800 Court has decided to take up the abortion pill case 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:57.640 that the Department of Justice apparently has asked them to 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.720 take up to decide whether or not the use of 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:04.120 MiFi pristone, which has FDA approved over the last i 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:11.520 don't know, two plus decades to handle without any type 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:16.840 of like surgical medical UH intervention UH issues related to 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:21.840 the needs around abortion. This is used I believe in 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:26.320 what a majority of cases. 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:29.560 Half over half, yeah. 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:33.120 Over half of abortions use MiFi pristone. This is something 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:36.199 that if the Supreme Court, which I believe that they 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:44.640 will decide to overturn the FDA's approval the you know, 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:47.680 over two plus decades use of MiFi pristone, it will 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:50.000 not just affect those in red states, which is what 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:53.320 we have been saying since the overturning of Dobbs that 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:56.040 this was not a state's issue, that this was a 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:59.280 push for national abortion. Van talk to us about the 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:03.800 implication and what you were thinking with regard to the 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:05.240 Supreme Court taking this up. 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:09.559 Well, first of all, apologies to everybody. I'm clearly suffering 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:11.800 from non COVID illness, and so I will try to 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:16.439 articulate as best I can today. We are learning about 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:18.440 this right now, and so I'm sure by the time 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:23.920 people hear this, it will be it will be uh, 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:26.400 you know, it'll be much more known about it. So 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:29.800 we're just like forming our opinions right now. But I 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:32.439 feel pretty confident that this will be the biggest case 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:36.520 since overturning Row versus Wade for exactly the reasons you've said. 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:42.080 It has profound implications. First of all, because mifipristone is 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:46.880 so widely used. It's used in over half of abortions. Second, 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:51.120 because it's used not just in red states but in 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:54.880 blue states, and so this would be a national issue, 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:59.920 right It's targeting something that is really you know, made 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:03.080 sure for people in red and blue states, in places 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:06.760 where you don't have access to health abortion provider or 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:11.480 women's health provider. So really profound national implications. And I 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:13.360 think the other part that we'll play out about this 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:18.959 again this is just first thoughts, is that the FDA 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:24.400 approved this drug in two thousand. I actually know one 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:26.480 of the people who was one of the researchers from 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:33.320 my residency, and it is safer than pretty much anything 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:35.840 you can think of. I mean, it's way safer than 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:38.640 many other medications. 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:40.640 I mean, we don't eat Jonathan, we don't even have 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:42.840 to talk about with safety measure of it because we 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:44.199 know that that's not even the point. 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:48.480 Nobody here's the important point. The important point is, I mean, 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.240 it's way safer than biograph for example. It's way safer 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:55.760 than other drugs that have implications for sex and things 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:58.680 like that. But the question, the issue is this case, 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:02.959 as I remember, was taken on grounds of safety. So 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:08.680 that safety is important because they're saying, does the FDA. 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:12.000 Did the FDA do due diligence for this drug that's 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:15.120 been out like twenty four years now? Did the FDA 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.200 do due diligence in safety? And if they rule against that, 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:22.040 it's not just a huge blow to women's reproductive health, 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:25.560 it's also a blow to the autonomy of the FDA 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:29.559 to make I mean, FDA is our kind of gold standard, 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:33.600 world renowned safety organization that everybody in the world bases 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.520 their information on. And so if they're going to undermind 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:41.000 the FDA about this, that is another massive, massive, massive 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:45.560 issue because it has regulatory implications where ideology can just 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:47.199 come in and overturn science. 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:51.200 I mean, and that is that's the point that I 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:53.520 want to get to and I want to discuss because 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:59.240 I find that what we are doing, as Democrats, as progressives, 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:02.520 as people would sense, is that we continue to argue 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.160 what we already know to be true, which is that 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:09.559 mifipristone has been on the market for twenty four years 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:15.400 and is safer than advil, is safer than many of 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:19.400 your over the counter drugs, the things such as viagra, 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:22.760 to your point, which are obviously used for the sexual 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:28.360 pleasure of men, is something that has readily been approved. 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:32.640 My point is that I find that we are consistently 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:38.839 on the defensive when it comes to arguing these issues 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:43.040 that we know are not about the safety of people. 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:46.800 We actually know that the people that are bringing these cases, 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:50.880 the folks that sit on the Supreme Court, the Attorney 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:55.840 General of Texas, they don't care about the safety and 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:59.560 health of women and people with uteruses. And I find 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:06.480 that assuming good faith in their arguments has us continually 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:10.840 in a false place. Am I wrong about that? Like 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:13.440 we're continuing to say, oh, look, look, look, let me 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:15.920 tell you all the ways that this is safe, as 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:22.280 opposed to you're placing your ideology, your religiosity on top 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:25.560 of science. Is this the twelfth century or is it 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:26.720 the twenty first century? 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:30.640 You know, you really have to wonder. I mean, because 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:34.560 if safety was the issue, MYFI prison five deaths per 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:39.600 million US for per million users. That's that's less than 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:45.480 that's less than that Viagras fifty deaths per per million 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:47.760 users and things like that. So it's just it's it's 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:51.959 minuscule to help, the safety risk is minuscule. But we're 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:54.000 seeing into let me look at what's happening in Texas 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:57.160 right now. They're trying to force a woman to have 0:13:57.200 --> 0:14:02.280 an unviable pregnancy delivered to term. Like it's just you know, 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:05.920 so this this feels like bodily control really, And I 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:09.720 think the irony, of course, is that the scary part 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:12.880 is it's they're using all of our language, like oh, 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:16.400 health and safety and concern to do the opposite. 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:18.240 So it's it's scary time. 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:21.760 But that's my point is that like, if you're going 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:26.400 to it's like it's people are lying about the premise 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:30.320 and their concern, then why are we meeting them on 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:34.640 the issue of concern and safety as opposed to saying 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:37.960 that this actually has nothing to do with concern and safety. 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:41.760 Your push against abortion had everything to do with bodily 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:44.720 it's not. I think it's about bodily control. A woman 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:47.120 is now being forced to flee the state and then 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:50.080 return to her home state and be prosecuted as a 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:55.760 criminal because it was either choose infertility potential death right, 0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:58.560 or use the means that she has that a lot 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:01.520 of other people don't to go to the nearest state 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.360 where she could get the medical attention that she needs. 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:08.520 Right we're talking about women sitting in the parking lots 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:12.080 that testified before the Senate, sitting in a parking lot 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:16.600 waiting to meet death's door before they're able to be 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:20.640 operated on in these right states. And I just feel 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:24.680 like the way in which it's similarly with gun control 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:27.120 right and gun safety, the way in which we are 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:31.600 arguing is arguing on their terms and their terms are false. 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:33.480 Right. 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:36.000 No, I mean that's the argument of my new book, Right, 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:38.120 is that we took the bait thinking that guns were 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:41.200 a health issue, but really it's about power. And so 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:43.920 if the issue is about power, your counter strategy has 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:47.080 to be about power also. And so, as you know, 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:51.120 you and I will be talking about in person, I 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:54.440 think that we take the bait. I mean, health is 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:56.520 an important argument, but if the other side is hell 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.680 bent on power, you actually have to look at the 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:03.520 mechan of power and figure out how you can counter that. 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:03.800 Right. 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:07.520 So one example is we have not paid anywhere near 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:12.760 enough attention to the relationships between winning elections and seating 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:16.480 judges over the past thirty years. But all this crap 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:19.240 is happening now because the other side was like hell 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:23.280 bent on taking over the judiciary while we were protesting 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:26.480 health issues. Again, these are massive, massive, massive health issues. 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:31.400 But why are we in this position. It's because we 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:33.320 don't have control of the Supreme Court, and we don't 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:35.440 have control of the lower courts that did this and 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:37.920 things like that. And so I guess the question for 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:40.960 me is just very obviously there needs to be a 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:45.960 concrete strategy for defeating this case, like, I don't know 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:47.720 how this is going to be argued. I don't know 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.320 how narrow it's going to be, but I think you've 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:52.640 really mobilize this case, which sounds like it's going to 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:56.280 go pretty quickly. But then the other issue is everything 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:58.720 you've been talking about, which is that this all ties 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:02.520 to like if you think this is bad, wait till 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:04.639 you see what happens if Trump wins another election, Like 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:08.159 this is just the warm up, and so you know 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:12.480 how much how much are we willing to do everything 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:13.719 we can to win the next election? 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:17.199 Really, you know? And I think that that like that 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:20.720 to me is there there are two There are two 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:26.080 frontiers right now for this right, two places to fight. 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:28.680 One which is whatever it is that the lawyers are 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:31.480 going to do inside of the courtroom with the Supreme Court. 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:34.719 The other is the fight with the American people to say, 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:38.800 you know, you think that you are protected in these 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.399 quote unquote blue bubbles, but you are not right, and 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:46.760 that this was never going to stop at abortion and 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:49.760 stop with the states that have trigger laws, that this 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.199 was going to go to mifipristone, then it's going to 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:55.320 go to contraception as a whole right it's going to 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:59.160 go to birth control, right, it's going to go to condoms, 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:02.040 it's going to go to to all of these other places, 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:06.720 because the point is control. And so if we continue 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:11.000 to argue right on the merits that this is about 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:13.600 safety and let us, you know, bring out our stats 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:16.439 and figures in the press. I'm not talking about in 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:20.000 the courtroom because even there we already know what. I 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:22.760 already know what the decision is going to be. If 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:27.119 the Supreme Court surprises me, okay, but like this is 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:31.880 the same Supreme Court overturned that overturned fifty years worth 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:34.439 of precedent. Right, So now all of a sudden, I 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:36.840 think that they're going to say, oh, well, you know, 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:40.959 maybe maybe we've gone too far. The decisions are already 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:45.880 made before they hear the arguments, right, So I mean, 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:49.200 so the point here is that what decision hasn't been made. 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:52.600 It's a decision about who we are going to elect 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:57.280 to run this country in November of twenty twenty four. 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:00.760 And right now, I'll tell you one thing. What you've 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:03.879 seen in my comments sections. Every time that I post 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:07.680 a video that has to do about Biden or an article, 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:12.879 my comment session section turns to trash with people telling 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:15.439 me that they're not voting, that they're staying home, so 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:16.359 forth and so on. 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:19.920 No, I mean, remember like the Jill Stein stuff about 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:26.359 how or Cornell West. Also, you know Clinton and Trump 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:30.240 were the same that kind of stuff in twenty sixteen, 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:32.800 but they actually weren't the same, Like, no matter how 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:37.439 you feel about them as people, they actually would have 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:39.560 we would not be if Clinton would have won that election. 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:42.600 You've got to be joking, Like the whole country would 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:43.560 be different right now, and. 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:46.040 The world I think would be different right now, right. 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:49.800 Yeah, absolutely absolutely, And so you know, I wish we 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:52.440 had different options, but I also I'm going to vote 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:56.680 on the options we have, honestly. But to me, that's 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:00.760 that's you know, the side that's saying, well, I'll I'll 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:03.720 just vote for the option we have is often at 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:06.840 a disadvantage against the side that is energized and mobilize 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:08.800 to like take over the country. Like the other side 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:11.400 we're against is like smelling power right now, big time. 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:12.600 And so. 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:18.919 You know, I just I don't know, how do you 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:20.960 respond to those things when people respond that way? 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:23.679 I mean, I think that the point I think that 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:27.320 the point here is that we've seen the voters respond 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:33.800 in local elections, in state elections like Ohio, like Kentucky 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:39.439 and other places to push back against this overt power 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:44.080 grab that Republicans are on. And so if this administration, 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:47.600 which has a whole host of other fucking problems, does 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:51.520 not use this as an opportunity to say, if the 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:55.000 American people are not with us on everything else, which 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:58.000 they are not, particularly as it pertains to the actions 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:02.040 that they continue to take in God and in Israel, 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:05.800 if the American people are losing faith by the day, 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:11.480 which they are, then this needs to be the galvanizing issue, right, 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:14.240 This needs to be the thing, the thing, the word 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:18.840 that you had to lobby to get Biden to say, 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:24.800 the word abortion has become the lightning rod for women 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:29.280 and people with uteruses in this country. And you're saying 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:33.040 that now you're no like because what this needs to 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:35.359 say is that you are not protected no matter where 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.000 you are, no matter what state that you were in, 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:41.960 you are not protected. Right, you were under the control 0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:47.879 and thumb of the Republican white supremaist, misogynist, patriarchal party, 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:51.200 and they need to beat that drum because that may 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:53.920 be the only thing that saves them. 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:59.119 Yeah, I hope that's the case. I mean, we have 0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:02.080 a year to make that argument. That argument is true, right, 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:06.960 I mean, the people's lives would change in really unimaginable ways. 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:10.280 And so if people are upset about this, like this 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:13.560 is just the beginning. I mean, before you know, you 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:18.760 and I talked about this. You know, facts aside, Right, 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:22.119 there are many facts that are horrible. But remember the 0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:25.000 very first conversation we had about Gaza, and I said, 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:28.560 this is a polarizing crisis, right that in a way, 0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:31.439 this is the kind of crisis that divides coalitions in 0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:37.040 ways that enables enables fascism, right and so and so 0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:40.159 I think right now, I mean, there definitely are the 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:44.120 facts on the ground, there are huge human rights issues, 0:22:44.800 --> 0:22:49.239 but also the amplification of the polarization of like, oh, 0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:52.159 you never you have nothing in common with your former ally, 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:55.560 you have nothing in common with a Jewish liberal or 0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:57.480 a black liberal or something like that. You can you're 0:22:57.480 --> 0:22:59.439 not you shouldn't even be in the same political party. 0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:03.840 Stuff like that, Like that is that disinformation is so 0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:07.399 is so amplified right now, it's not being regulated by 0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:11.359 any social media platform, and so this idea of like 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:13.679 your vote doesn't matter, or don't vote, or you have 0:23:13.760 --> 0:23:17.280 nothing in common with your allies. Is the strategy that's 0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:21.040 honestly being used against us right now, and it's scary 0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:23.160 to see how effective that is. We have a year 0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:27.000 to we have a year to get back to feeling 0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:27.920 like we're in a coalition. 0:23:34.080 --> 0:23:35.560 You know, I want to go back to a point 0:23:35.600 --> 0:23:40.520 that you made earlier about energy and the lack of 0:23:40.680 --> 0:23:43.879 energy on the basis side. And I continue to have 0:23:43.960 --> 0:23:48.560 these conversations with folks, you know, in all different spaces 0:23:48.560 --> 0:23:51.960 and places where they say, you know, the media does 0:23:52.160 --> 0:23:55.560 the same trick bag every single year where we have 0:23:55.600 --> 0:23:57.960 an election, and they tell us that black people aren't 0:23:57.960 --> 0:23:59.800 going to vote, and young people aren't going to vote, 0:23:59.840 --> 0:24:03.160 and it's what drives their ratings and all of these things. 0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:06.919 But it's not actually factual or the truth. However, I 0:24:06.960 --> 0:24:10.399 do think that there is some truth to the fact 0:24:10.440 --> 0:24:13.920 that what I am hearing, and you tell me what 0:24:13.960 --> 0:24:16.399 you are hearing, is that people no longer want to 0:24:16.480 --> 0:24:19.360 vote from a place of fear right. They don't want 0:24:19.400 --> 0:24:23.440 to vote because the democracy depends on it, because their 0:24:23.480 --> 0:24:26.960 life depends on it, because bodily autonomy depends on it. 0:24:27.040 --> 0:24:29.840 They want to vote because they believe in the person 0:24:30.560 --> 0:24:35.040 that they are voting for, and I think that that 0:24:35.320 --> 0:24:39.119 is where we are going to struggle. I mean again, 0:24:40.280 --> 0:24:43.119 Donald Trump was a motivating factor to get people in 0:24:43.160 --> 0:24:46.359 the middle of a pandemic without a vaccine out in 0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:51.920 aggressive numbers to vote against fascism. We are a year out, 0:24:52.040 --> 0:24:55.000 but do you think that the lack of energy, Jonathan, 0:24:55.720 --> 0:24:59.479 is something that we should be paying attention to now? 0:25:00.000 --> 0:25:02.640 The worst is that is it a media trick bad 0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:03.320 that we're in. 0:25:07.440 --> 0:25:07.720 Well? 0:25:07.880 --> 0:25:10.959 As as you know, because I only tell you these things. 0:25:11.480 --> 0:25:15.280 I've been worried about this for a long time. And 0:25:15.320 --> 0:25:17.800 so the first time that I told you I didn't 0:25:17.800 --> 0:25:22.920 think Biden was the right candidate, I invoked the memory 0:25:22.960 --> 0:25:27.159 of Bob Dole and John Kerry campaigns. Were the people 0:25:27.160 --> 0:25:30.760 who like were owed it because of the past performance 0:25:30.840 --> 0:25:34.320