1 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with 2 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody, recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, 3 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: I want to bring your attention to an op ed 4 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: that was written last week by Charles Blow in The 5 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: New York Times entitle America's thirst for authoritarianism, and I 6 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: want to bring it to your attention because as I 7 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 1: continue to be concerned, which is an understatement about the 8 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,200 Speaker 1: state of our democracy and the willingness of some people 9 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: to just let the whole thing go, this piece really 10 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: stood out to me with stark reasoning as to where 11 00:00:55,000 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: people are and what the risk is right now. And 12 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: I don't think that people are truly seeing what the 13 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: risk is in the behavior, in the antics, or in 14 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: the language of I'm going to vote my values. I'm 15 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: not voting for Biden. You know, I'm going to sit 16 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: this one out. And what that means across the board. 17 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: First of all, we're not just talking about the presidential 18 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: When people decide not to vote, that means that they 19 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 1: don't show up at the polls at all, which means 20 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: that there is no vote for governors and state legislatures. 21 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: Those things that we are recognizing more and more are 22 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: incredibly important into having a check in balance on a 23 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: right wing authoritarian wanna be that is in the governor's mansion. 24 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: Look no further than Virginia, because the state legislature was 25 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 1: put back in Democratic hands. Guess who doesn't have the 26 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: ability to institute his fifteen week abortion plan. Youngkin, Right, 27 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: Glenn Youngin was not only getting ready to probably launch 28 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: a presidential bid, but he was getting ready to put 29 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: into place a fifteen week abortion ban in Virginia. And 30 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: because the state legislature turned blue, they had the veto 31 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: power to be able to deny him the ability to 32 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: deny women and people with uterus access to bodily autonomy. Right, 33 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:19,839 Speaker 1: So when people say, well, I'm not going to vote 34 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: for Biden, well are you going to the voting booth 35 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: at all? Because then we're looking at your school board 36 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: who is deciding what books to put on the shelf 37 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: or to just put them all right under lock and 38 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: key if it's left up to Republicans. Right, voting down 39 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: ballot matters just as much, if not more, these days 40 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: than voting up ballot. So for those people who continued 41 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: to think that like this is a privilege that can't 42 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: be taken away. I say, look no further than fucking 43 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: abortion right. If people had maybe taken it seriously back 44 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, when Hillary Clinton was set unding the 45 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 1: fucking alarm bells about the ability to appoint Supreme Court 46 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,239 Speaker 1: justices and what kind of damage Donald Trump was gonna 47 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: do right two hour democracy. If people had heeded her warning, 48 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,359 Speaker 1: we wouldn't be in the fucking position that we're in 49 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: because those Third Party wanted to be like Jill Stein. 50 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 1: Goers maybe would have thought fucking twice. So I would 51 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: love for us as Americans not to make the same 52 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 1: mistakes over and over and over again. So Charles Blow 53 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 1: writes this in his op ed in The New York 54 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: Times entitled America's thirst for Authoritarianism. Trump surely appeals to 55 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: those who want a president who will simply bulldoze through 56 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: that bureaucracy, or at least express contempt for it and 57 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: is willing to threaten it. Furthermore, Trump's chances will probably 58 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: be helped by the portion of the electorate misjudging the 59 00:03:55,720 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: very utility of voting. There are still too many citizens 60 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: who think of a vote, particularly for president, as something 61 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: to throw to a person they like rather than being 62 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: cast for the candidate and a party more likely to 63 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: advance the policies they need. And there are too many 64 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: who think that a vote should be withheld from a 65 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: more preferable candidate as punishment for not delivering every single 66 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: thing on their wish lists, that choosing not to vote 67 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: at all is a sensible act of political protests rather 68 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: than a relinquishing of control to others. Abstinence doesn't empower 69 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 1: it neoters if you want a democracy to thrive. The 70 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: idea that voting is a choice is itself an illusion. 71 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 1: Voting is about survival, and survival isn't a choice. It 72 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: is an imperative. It's an instinct. It's a tool one 73 00:04:55,600 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: uses for self advancement and self preservation. It's an instrument, 74 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 1: and you use to decrease chances of harm and increase 75 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: chances of betterment. It is naive to use it solely 76 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: to co sign an individual's character. Not to say that 77 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: character doesn't count, it does, but rather that its primacy 78 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: is a fallacy. Voting isn't just an expression of your worldview, 79 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: but also a manifestation of your insistence on safety and security. 80 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: That is it, folks, That's it. In a nutshell. So, 81 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: like I have been saying, I encourage folks, as you're 82 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: getting ready to potentially gather with friends and with family 83 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 1: for the holiday season, that you engage in thoughtful conversation 84 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: and dialogue, that you put down your phones, that you 85 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: put down the aggression, and that you get to the 86 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: heart of the matter. Because what is at stake, dear friends, 87 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: isn't just oh, this thing we call democracy, It is 88 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: our very safety right as citizens of this country. There 89 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:15,559 Speaker 1: will be no one who is safe other than those 90 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 1: that pledge their full allegiance and loyalty above all else 91 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: to Donald Trump. Everyone else will be at risk and 92 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: risk of what. Well, I'll allow your imaginations to run wild, 93 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: or rather just take some time going through the history books, 94 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: or rather just look around at the instability that we 95 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: are seeing right now, the wars that have outbroken, the 96 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 1: devastation that is being wielded against those that are seen 97 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: as villains from birth, whether it is deprivation of electricity, food, water, gas, 98 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: the inability to hold jobs, to go to school, all 99 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: of those things, all of those things will be able 100 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 1: to happen under a second Trump administration. And if you 101 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: think that you will have the opportunity to then cast 102 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: another vote four years later. You will be the full 103 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: coming up next my conversation with our friend, our in 104 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel. Folks. As always when we 105 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: have the opportunity each week to chat with our in 106 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzl, we are always thrilled. On 107 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: this occasion, Jonathan. As we are recording this, the Supreme 108 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: Court has decided to take up the abortion pill case 109 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: that the Department of Justice apparently has asked them to 110 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: take up to decide whether or not the use of 111 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: MiFi pristone, which has FDA approved over the last i 112 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: don't know, two plus decades to handle without any type 113 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: of like surgical medical UH intervention UH issues related to 114 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: the needs around abortion. This is used I believe in 115 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: what a majority of cases. 116 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 2: Half over half, yeah. 117 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: Over half of abortions use MiFi pristone. This is something 118 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 1: that if the Supreme Court, which I believe that they 119 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: will decide to overturn the FDA's approval the you know, 120 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 1: over two plus decades use of MiFi pristone, it will 121 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: not just affect those in red states, which is what 122 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: we have been saying since the overturning of Dobbs that 123 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: this was not a state's issue, that this was a 124 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: push for national abortion. Van talk to us about the 125 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: implication and what you were thinking with regard to the 126 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: Supreme Court taking this up. 127 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 3: Well, first of all, apologies to everybody. I'm clearly suffering 128 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 3: from non COVID illness, and so I will try to 129 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 3: articulate as best I can today. We are learning about 130 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 3: this right now, and so I'm sure by the time 131 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 3: people hear this, it will be it will be uh, 132 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 3: you know, it'll be much more known about it. So 133 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 3: we're just like forming our opinions right now. But I 134 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,439 Speaker 3: feel pretty confident that this will be the biggest case 135 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 3: since overturning Row versus Wade for exactly the reasons you've said. 136 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 3: It has profound implications. First of all, because mifipristone is 137 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 3: so widely used. It's used in over half of abortions. Second, 138 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 3: because it's used not just in red states but in 139 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 3: blue states, and so this would be a national issue, 140 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 3: right It's targeting something that is really you know, made 141 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 3: sure for people in red and blue states, in places 142 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 3: where you don't have access to health abortion provider or 143 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 3: women's health provider. So really profound national implications. And I 144 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 3: think the other part that we'll play out about this 145 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:18,959 Speaker 3: again this is just first thoughts, is that the FDA 146 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 3: approved this drug in two thousand. I actually know one 147 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 3: of the people who was one of the researchers from 148 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 3: my residency, and it is safer than pretty much anything 149 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 3: you can think of. I mean, it's way safer than 150 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 3: many other medications. 151 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: I mean, we don't eat Jonathan, we don't even have 152 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: to talk about with safety measure of it because we 153 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 1: know that that's not even the point. 154 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 3: Nobody here's the important point. The important point is, I mean, 155 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 3: it's way safer than biograph for example. It's way safer 156 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 3: than other drugs that have implications for sex and things 157 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 3: like that. But the question, the issue is this case, 158 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 3: as I remember, was taken on grounds of safety. So 159 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 3: that safety is important because they're saying, does the FDA. 160 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 3: Did the FDA do due diligence for this drug that's 161 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 3: been out like twenty four years now? Did the FDA 162 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 3: do due diligence in safety? And if they rule against that, 163 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 3: it's not just a huge blow to women's reproductive health, 164 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 3: it's also a blow to the autonomy of the FDA 165 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,559 Speaker 3: to make I mean, FDA is our kind of gold standard, 166 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 3: world renowned safety organization that everybody in the world bases 167 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 3: their information on. And so if they're going to undermind 168 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 3: the FDA about this, that is another massive, massive, massive 169 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 3: issue because it has regulatory implications where ideology can just 170 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:47,199 Speaker 3: come in and overturn science. 171 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: I mean, and that is that's the point that I 172 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: want to get to and I want to discuss because 173 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: I find that what we are doing, as Democrats, as progressives, 174 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: as people would sense, is that we continue to argue 175 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: what we already know to be true, which is that 176 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 1: mifipristone has been on the market for twenty four years 177 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: and is safer than advil, is safer than many of 178 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: your over the counter drugs, the things such as viagra, 179 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: to your point, which are obviously used for the sexual 180 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: pleasure of men, is something that has readily been approved. 181 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: My point is that I find that we are consistently 182 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:38,839 Speaker 1: on the defensive when it comes to arguing these issues 183 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: that we know are not about the safety of people. 184 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: We actually know that the people that are bringing these cases, 185 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: the folks that sit on the Supreme Court, the Attorney 186 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: General of Texas, they don't care about the safety and 187 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: health of women and people with uteruses. And I find 188 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: that assuming good faith in their arguments has us continually 189 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 1: in a false place. Am I wrong about that? Like 190 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: we're continuing to say, oh, look, look, look, let me 191 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: tell you all the ways that this is safe, as 192 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: opposed to you're placing your ideology, your religiosity on top 193 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 1: of science. Is this the twelfth century or is it 194 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: the twenty first century? 195 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 3: You know, you really have to wonder. I mean, because 196 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 3: if safety was the issue, MYFI prison five deaths per 197 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 3: million US for per million users. That's that's less than 198 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 3: that's less than that Viagras fifty deaths per per million 199 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 3: users and things like that. So it's just it's it's 200 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,959 Speaker 3: minuscule to help, the safety risk is minuscule. But we're 201 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 3: seeing into let me look at what's happening in Texas 202 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 3: right now. They're trying to force a woman to have 203 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 3: an unviable pregnancy delivered to term. Like it's just you know, 204 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 3: so this this feels like bodily control really, And I 205 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 3: think the irony, of course, is that the scary part 206 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 3: is it's they're using all of our language, like oh, 207 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 3: health and safety and concern to do the opposite. 208 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 2: So it's it's scary time. 209 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: But that's my point is that like, if you're going 210 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: to it's like it's people are lying about the premise 211 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: and their concern, then why are we meeting them on 212 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: the issue of concern and safety as opposed to saying 213 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: that this actually has nothing to do with concern and safety. 214 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: Your push against abortion had everything to do with bodily 215 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: it's not. I think it's about bodily control. A woman 216 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: is now being forced to flee the state and then 217 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: return to her home state and be prosecuted as a 218 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: criminal because it was either choose infertility potential death right, 219 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: or use the means that she has that a lot 220 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: of other people don't to go to the nearest state 221 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: where she could get the medical attention that she needs. 222 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: Right we're talking about women sitting in the parking lots 223 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: that testified before the Senate, sitting in a parking lot 224 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: waiting to meet death's door before they're able to be 225 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: operated on in these right states. And I just feel 226 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: like the way in which it's similarly with gun control 227 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: right and gun safety, the way in which we are 228 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: arguing is arguing on their terms and their terms are false. 229 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 2: Right. 230 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 3: No, I mean that's the argument of my new book, Right, 231 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 3: is that we took the bait thinking that guns were 232 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 3: a health issue, but really it's about power. And so 233 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 3: if the issue is about power, your counter strategy has 234 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 3: to be about power also. And so, as you know, 235 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 3: you and I will be talking about in person, I 236 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 3: think that we take the bait. I mean, health is 237 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 3: an important argument, but if the other side is hell 238 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 3: bent on power, you actually have to look at the 239 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 3: mechan of power and figure out how you can counter that. 240 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 2: Right. 241 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 3: So one example is we have not paid anywhere near 242 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 3: enough attention to the relationships between winning elections and seating 243 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 3: judges over the past thirty years. But all this crap 244 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 3: is happening now because the other side was like hell 245 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 3: bent on taking over the judiciary while we were protesting 246 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 3: health issues. Again, these are massive, massive, massive health issues. 247 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 3: But why are we in this position. It's because we 248 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 3: don't have control of the Supreme Court, and we don't 249 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 3: have control of the lower courts that did this and 250 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 3: things like that. And so I guess the question for 251 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 3: me is just very obviously there needs to be a 252 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 3: concrete strategy for defeating this case, like, I don't know 253 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 3: how this is going to be argued. I don't know 254 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 3: how narrow it's going to be, but I think you've 255 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 3: really mobilize this case, which sounds like it's going to 256 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 3: go pretty quickly. But then the other issue is everything 257 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 3: you've been talking about, which is that this all ties 258 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 3: to like if you think this is bad, wait till 259 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 3: you see what happens if Trump wins another election, Like 260 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 3: this is just the warm up, and so you know 261 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 3: how much how much are we willing to do everything 262 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:13,719 Speaker 3: we can to win the next election? 263 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 1: Really, you know? And I think that that like that 264 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: to me is there there are two There are two 265 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: frontiers right now for this right, two places to fight. 266 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: One which is whatever it is that the lawyers are 267 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: going to do inside of the courtroom with the Supreme Court. 268 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,719 Speaker 1: The other is the fight with the American people to say, 269 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: you know, you think that you are protected in these 270 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 1: quote unquote blue bubbles, but you are not right, and 271 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: that this was never going to stop at abortion and 272 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: stop with the states that have trigger laws, that this 273 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 1: was going to go to mifipristone, then it's going to 274 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: go to contraception as a whole right it's going to 275 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 1: go to birth control, right, it's going to go to condoms, 276 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: it's going to go to to all of these other places, 277 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: because the point is control. And so if we continue 278 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: to argue right on the merits that this is about 279 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: safety and let us, you know, bring out our stats 280 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,439 Speaker 1: and figures in the press. I'm not talking about in 281 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: the courtroom because even there we already know what. I 282 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: already know what the decision is going to be. If 283 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court surprises me, okay, but like this is 284 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:31,880 Speaker 1: the same Supreme Court overturned that overturned fifty years worth 285 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 1: of precedent. Right, So now all of a sudden, I 286 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: think that they're going to say, oh, well, you know, 287 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,959 Speaker 1: maybe maybe we've gone too far. The decisions are already 288 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 1: made before they hear the arguments, right, So I mean, 289 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: so the point here is that what decision hasn't been made. 290 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: It's a decision about who we are going to elect 291 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: to run this country in November of twenty twenty four. 292 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: And right now, I'll tell you one thing. What you've 293 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 1: seen in my comments sections. Every time that I post 294 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: a video that has to do about Biden or an article, 295 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: my comment session section turns to trash with people telling 296 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,439 Speaker 1: me that they're not voting, that they're staying home, so 297 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: forth and so on. 298 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 3: No, I mean, remember like the Jill Stein stuff about 299 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 3: how or Cornell West. Also, you know Clinton and Trump 300 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 3: were the same that kind of stuff in twenty sixteen, 301 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 3: but they actually weren't the same, Like, no matter how 302 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:37,439 Speaker 3: you feel about them as people, they actually would have 303 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 3: we would not be if Clinton would have won that election. 304 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 3: You've got to be joking, Like the whole country would 305 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 3: be different right now, and. 306 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: The world I think would be different right now, right. 307 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely absolutely, And so you know, I wish we 308 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 3: had different options, but I also I'm going to vote 309 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 3: on the options we have, honestly. But to me, that's 310 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 3: that's you know, the side that's saying, well, I'll I'll 311 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 3: just vote for the option we have is often at 312 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 3: a disadvantage against the side that is energized and mobilize 313 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 3: to like take over the country. Like the other side 314 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 3: we're against is like smelling power right now, big time. 315 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 2: And so. 316 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 3: You know, I just I don't know, how do you 317 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 3: respond to those things when people respond that way? 318 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that the point I think that 319 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: the point here is that we've seen the voters respond 320 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: in local elections, in state elections like Ohio, like Kentucky 321 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 1: and other places to push back against this overt power 322 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: grab that Republicans are on. And so if this administration, 323 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: which has a whole host of other fucking problems, does 324 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: not use this as an opportunity to say, if the 325 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: American people are not with us on everything else, which 326 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: they are not, particularly as it pertains to the actions 327 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: that they continue to take in God and in Israel, 328 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: if the American people are losing faith by the day, 329 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: which they are, then this needs to be the galvanizing issue, right, 330 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: This needs to be the thing, the thing, the word 331 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: that you had to lobby to get Biden to say, 332 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: the word abortion has become the lightning rod for women 333 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: and people with uteruses in this country. And you're saying 334 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: that now you're no like because what this needs to 335 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: say is that you are not protected no matter where 336 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: you are, no matter what state that you were in, 337 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: you are not protected. Right, you were under the control 338 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 1: and thumb of the Republican white supremaist, misogynist, patriarchal party, 339 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: and they need to beat that drum because that may 340 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 1: be the only thing that saves them. 341 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:59,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, I hope that's the case. I mean, we have 342 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 3: a year to make that argument. That argument is true, right, 343 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 3: I mean, the people's lives would change in really unimaginable ways. 344 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 3: And so if people are upset about this, like this 345 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 3: is just the beginning. I mean, before you know, you 346 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 3: and I talked about this. You know, facts aside, Right, 347 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 3: there are many facts that are horrible. But remember the 348 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 3: very first conversation we had about Gaza, and I said, 349 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 3: this is a polarizing crisis, right that in a way, 350 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,439 Speaker 3: this is the kind of crisis that divides coalitions in 351 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 3: ways that enables enables fascism, right and so and so 352 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 3: I think right now, I mean, there definitely are the 353 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 3: facts on the ground, there are huge human rights issues, 354 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:49,239 Speaker 3: but also the amplification of the polarization of like, oh, 355 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 3: you never you have nothing in common with your former ally, 356 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 3: you have nothing in common with a Jewish liberal or 357 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 3: a black liberal or something like that. You can you're 358 00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 3: not you shouldn't even be in the same political party. 359 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 3: Stuff like that, Like that is that disinformation is so 360 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 3: is so amplified right now, it's not being regulated by 361 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 3: any social media platform, and so this idea of like 362 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,679 Speaker 3: your vote doesn't matter, or don't vote, or you have 363 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 3: nothing in common with your allies. Is the strategy that's 364 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 3: honestly being used against us right now, and it's scary 365 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 3: to see how effective that is. We have a year 366 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 3: to we have a year to get back to feeling 367 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 3: like we're in a coalition. 368 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: You know, I want to go back to a point 369 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: that you made earlier about energy and the lack of 370 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: energy on the basis side. And I continue to have 371 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: these conversations with folks, you know, in all different spaces 372 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: and places where they say, you know, the media does 373 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: the same trick bag every single year where we have 374 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: an election, and they tell us that black people aren't 375 00:23:57,960 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: going to vote, and young people aren't going to vote, 376 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,160 Speaker 1: and it's what drives their ratings and all of these things. 377 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,919 Speaker 1: But it's not actually factual or the truth. However, I 378 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 1: do think that there is some truth to the fact 379 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: that what I am hearing, and you tell me what 380 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 1: you are hearing, is that people no longer want to 381 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 1: vote from a place of fear right. They don't want 382 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 1: to vote because the democracy depends on it, because their 383 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: life depends on it, because bodily autonomy depends on it. 384 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: They want to vote because they believe in the person 385 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: that they are voting for, and I think that that 386 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 1: is where we are going to struggle. I mean again, 387 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 1: Donald Trump was a motivating factor to get people in 388 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 1: the middle of a pandemic without a vaccine out in 389 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: aggressive numbers to vote against fascism. We are a year out, 390 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: but do you think that the lack of energy, Jonathan, 391 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,479 Speaker 1: is something that we should be paying attention to now? 392 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 1: The worst is that is it a media trick bad 393 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: that we're in. 394 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 2: Well? 395 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,959 Speaker 3: As as you know, because I only tell you these things. 396 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 3: I've been worried about this for a long time. And 397 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 3: so the first time that I told you I didn't 398 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 3: think Biden was the right candidate, I invoked the memory 399 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 3: of Bob Dole and John Kerry campaigns. Were the people 400 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 3: who like were owed it because of the past performance 401 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 3: or dedication to the party or something like that. You know, 402 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 3: Bob Dole went onto viagraphame, but he was not a 403 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 3: competitive He was not a competitive candidate in a way. 404 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 3: And so John Carrey, you know same. I mean, Carrie 405 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 3: had a lot of problems also, But when you put 406 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 3: up like a candidate who appears markedly less vibrant than 407 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 3: the other candidate who is also old and whatever. 408 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 2: But then you really are at a massive, massive, massive. 409 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 3: Disadvantage independent of the issues, and so I think it's 410 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 3: a real thing. 411 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 2: I guess that is what I'm saying. 412 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 3: And I think I hope remember like when the Obama 413 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,679 Speaker 3: strategists like they knew about like a different kind of 414 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 3: marketing that the other side didn't know about. I hope 415 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 3: our side has some genius people who are going to 416 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 3: like blast out the movie Cocoon like two weeks before 417 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 3: the election or some crap like that. Like, I hope 418 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 3: we have some strategy, but I do feel like we're 419 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 3: at just a really massive disadvantage. And what worries me 420 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,360 Speaker 3: is not just the disadvantage itself, it's also that they 421 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 3: try to talk people out of it, you know, like, oh, no, 422 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 3: that's an issue, like look at the economy or something, 423 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 3: and I'm like, yeah, but this guy's not inspiring anybody. 424 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 3: But that being said, we're going to need to come 425 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 3: up with a strategy. I mean, maybe this is where 426 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 3: AI is helpful or in injecting some kind of new No. 427 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 3: I don't know, but I'm just saying, like we have 428 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 3: to figure out something about this, because that this is 429 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 3: right now is the choice we have. 430 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I just you know, and I think that 431 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 1: it is the choice that we have. People who think 432 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: that there is going to be some type of bait 433 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 1: and switch are dreaming and are kidding themselves. And I 434 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: think that you know, the comparisons that you made with 435 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,919 Speaker 1: Dole and Carrie accurate to a certain extent. But the 436 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: stakes of the country and the world were not anywhere 437 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: near where they are right now. And so while we 438 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 1: could say, okay, whatever, we lost that election, that sucks, 439 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: but we'll get them next time, is not the place 440 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: that we find ourselves in as a country, or or 441 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:46,439 Speaker 1: as a planet for that matter. Jonathan, as always, we 442 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: appreciate you. We wish you good health and go and 443 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: take care of yourself. But thank you for making the time. 444 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank everybody. And again, next week we'll know 445 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 3: more about this and my voice I'll be back hopefully 446 00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 3: so we can talk more about all. 447 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 1: Listen, that is it for me today, dear friends on 448 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 1: woke a f as always, Power to the people and 449 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: to all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke 450 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: as fuck.