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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck,

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Speaker 2: and Jerry's here, too. And we are kicking off part

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Speaker 2: two of our two-part episode on stand-up comedy. And I

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Speaker 2: think if I remember correctly, Chuck, it was a couple

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Speaker 2: of days ago, but you said something about alt comedy.

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Speaker 2: We were going to talk about that.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: What is that?

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Speaker 3: Alt comedy is something that came about in the early

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Speaker 3: 90s with a group of comedians performing in. And I

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Speaker 3: don't know if that's where the term comes from, but

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Speaker 3: performing in alternative venues.

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Speaker 1: They weren't performing.

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Speaker 3: And, you know, of course, they would all go to

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Speaker 3: perform in a comedy store and all that kind of stuff, too.

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Speaker 3: And comedy clubs, but they were well known for performing

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Speaker 3: in like piano bars or like bookstores.

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Speaker 1: And things like that.

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Speaker 3: And, you know, people like Jeanine Garofalo, the great Dana Gould,

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Speaker 3: who is a wonderful comic and human being still.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: They started out at performing at a place called Big

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Speaker 3: and Tall Books in L.A., the Luna Lounge in New

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Speaker 3: York and Largo, the original Largo in L.A.

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Speaker 1: Were all sort of home bases for these comics.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: We did a show in Largo. Was that the original Largo?

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Speaker 1: No, the original was like this little piano bar.

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Speaker 2: I see.

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Speaker 1: Uh, but the, the new Largo is great too. It's awesome.

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Speaker 2: For sure. Uh, so I mentioned Mr. Show before, if

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Speaker 2: you're familiar with Mr. Show with Bob and David, um,

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Speaker 2: that is essentially alt comedy at its core. And most

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Speaker 2: of the people associated with the show, if not all

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Speaker 2: of them were alt comics of the time, early, early

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Speaker 2: mid nineties. Right. Um, Patton Oswalt, Maria Bamford, Mark Maron, PFT,

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Speaker 2: the great Paul F. Tompkins. Yeah. One of the funniest

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Speaker 2: people alive. Mary Lynn Raskub.

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Speaker 1: She's great.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I was like, who is that? And I went

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Speaker 2: and looked her up. I'm like, oh, OK. I had

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Speaker 2: no idea that she started out as a stand up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But she was great on Larry Sanders as the booking

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Speaker 2: assistant to, I think, Janine Garofalo, right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Janine Garofalo was on that show.

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Speaker 2: And she's probably more well-known by mainstream America as a

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Speaker 2: character on 24. She was on 24 basically the entire

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Speaker 2: run of the show. I'm not sure what she did, though,

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Speaker 2: because I didn't watch it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she was great. She was part of that crew.

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Speaker 3: I know you mentioned Maria Bamford, but if you've never

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Speaker 3: seen Maria Bamford's comedy, please go see it because she's

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Speaker 3: still one of the most original comedians working today, for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you said still, because most of these comedians,

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Speaker 2: the ones who are still alive, are still working and

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Speaker 2: still doing stuff, and a lot of them are still

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Speaker 2: doing stand-up. Like David Cross, he's had some Mondo TV hits,

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Speaker 2: like he was on Arrested Development, he was on Mr. Show,

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Speaker 2: he's been on just tons of movies and just killed

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Speaker 2: on all of them. He still does stand-up pretty regularly,

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Speaker 2: as a matter of fact. Oh, yeah. Does Patton Oswalt still?

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Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah. So these guys are still doing stand-up, which

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Speaker 2: is Really, to their credit, because most of them, I mean,

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Speaker 2: Patton Oswalt was on what? Was it King of Queens?

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I don't remember either, but he had a huge role

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Speaker 2: in like a major network television show. Like, I just

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Speaker 2: think it's amazing that they're still doing stand-up because as

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Speaker 2: we've seen, people like Steve Martin and Robin Williams and

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Speaker 2: all that. It's like once they became huge, they left

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Speaker 2: stand-up behind. The early 90s alt comics did not. And

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Speaker 2: they had some other there were some other characteristics besides

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Speaker 2: just appearing in small like alternative clubs, too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. You know, it was, I guess, sort

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Speaker 1: of an alternative point of view.

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Speaker 3: And this was in the 90s at a time where

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Speaker 3: alternative music that was just sort of the buzzword for

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Speaker 3: anything that kind of broke from the previous mainstreams of

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Speaker 3: the 80s.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So a little more like they were making like insider

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Speaker 3: references more. A little less like set up punchline and

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Speaker 3: more sort of observational, like wry humor about life and

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Speaker 3: telling stories about their lives and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: What else?

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Speaker 2: They eschewed the racism, generally homophobia. Essentially, if you if

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Speaker 2: you're familiar with Don Rickles, imagine the antithesis of Don Rickles.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: One of the alt comics from this time, too, is

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Speaker 2: very sadly no longer with us because he was also

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Speaker 2: one of the funniest people around. His mind was just

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Speaker 2: a national treasure, was Mitch Hedberg. Yeah. Were you into him?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he's the greatest. We've talked about him on the

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Speaker 3: show before. Mitch Hedberg is very, very sad that we

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Speaker 3: lost him because he was just kind of getting started,

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Speaker 3: I feel like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he really was. I came across, I think, a

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Speaker 2: BuzzFeed list of 275 people. Of his jokes ranked from

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Speaker 2: worst to best. And there really was no worst one

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Speaker 2: on there. They're all just wonderful.

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Speaker 1: God bless you, BuzzFeed.

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Speaker 2: Would you like to hear one?

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Speaker 3: Sure.

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Speaker 2: Alcoholism is a disease, but it's the only disease you

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Speaker 2: can get yelled at for having.

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Speaker 1: I think I remember that joke.

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Speaker 2: And his like delivery too was just... just amazing. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: His whole act was great. So, yeah, I'm sad he's

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Speaker 2: gone too.

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Speaker 3: There was a thing though with alt comedy where some

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Speaker 3: like club comics would sometimes sort of deride that scene.

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Speaker 3: I know Bill Burr in 2012 called it that scene

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Speaker 3: like you were in a comedy womb.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Like it was a real safe place to go and

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Speaker 3: you weren't just going up in front of like a

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Speaker 3: potentially hostile. I think there's like This idea that you

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Speaker 3: earn your stripes by going in front of hostile crowds

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Speaker 3: that might hate you and might heckle you.

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Speaker 1: And you got to earn your stripes that way in

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Speaker 1: the comedy world.

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Speaker 3: And I think that all comedy scene, there were some

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Speaker 3: comics that thought that that was probably not going to

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Speaker 3: happen there.

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Speaker 1: So it was a little too easy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he definitely thought that. And I think his point was,

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Speaker 2: if you took those comedians and put them in a

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Speaker 2: regular club, they would. not do very well because they

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Speaker 2: hadn't gone through heckling or something like that. And I

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Speaker 2: think more to the point, I read the transcript of this.

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Speaker 2: It was on some podcast, a comedy podcast. And he

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Speaker 2: was saying that one of the things that really rubbed

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Speaker 2: in the wrong way was that if their jokes bombed

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Speaker 2: or something like that, they just told the audience that

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Speaker 2: the audience was too dumb to get what genius they were.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, as I was reading that, I

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Speaker 2: was like, totally. I could totally see most of these

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Speaker 2: alt comics that I've mentioned telling the audience they're not

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Speaker 2: getting it, that that's why they're not laughing, that it's them.

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Speaker 2: And he called that out. And I was like, okay,

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Speaker 2: I kind of get that. It was a little more

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Speaker 2: nuanced than that. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so.

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Speaker 2: And I never thought I'd be standing here defending Bill Burr,

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Speaker 2: but you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: Uh, you know, with the rise of podcasting, you talked

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Speaker 3: earlier about, uh, comedy podcasts, and that's such a huge

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Speaker 3: thing now. Like most of the shows I listened to

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Speaker 3: are comedy shows. And, uh, Mark Maron's WTF, of course,

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Speaker 3: was an interview show. Uh, and the Joe Rogan experience,

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Speaker 3: you know, Joe Rogan started out.

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Speaker 1: As a standup. Um, both of those shows were created

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Speaker 1: in 2009.

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Speaker 3: And, um, You know, before Joe Rogan experience became like super,

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Speaker 3: super political, it was much more of a and I

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Speaker 3: think he still does some of that stuff now with

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Speaker 3: this little comedy crew. But it was much more of

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Speaker 3: like a Marin, like let's just have comedians on kind

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Speaker 3: of thing.

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Speaker 2: Yes, he he very frequently referred to it as the craft.

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Speaker 2: And I don't think I've ever seen a commenter online

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Speaker 2: talk about him saying the craft and not deriding.

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Speaker 1: It is a craft. I guess you just can't say

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Speaker 1: that out loud, huh?

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Speaker 2: For sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: There was a great takedown video of him by another

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Speaker 2: stand-up when he did that recent live stream comedy stand-up

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Speaker 2: show Joe Rogan did.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: Apparently it didn't go all that well. All right. And

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Speaker 2: this stand-up basically just disassembled it and pointed out all

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Speaker 2: the reasons why, and it was very funny. But supposedly

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Speaker 2: Joe Rogan used his clout to get it taken down

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Speaker 2: at YouTube, which is not super cool.

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Speaker 1: Interesting. Yeah, I didn't hear about that.

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Speaker 2: But no matter what you think of Joe Rogan, his politics,

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Speaker 2: the people he has on, his views, his opinions, it's

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Speaker 2: indisputable that he's had an enormous impact on comedy of

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Speaker 2: all kinds in the 21st century because of how huge

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Speaker 2: his podcast is and because of how often he'll use

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Speaker 2: his platform to bring on up-and-coming comedians. But because of

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Speaker 2: the politics, most of those comedians are like, at least center-right,

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Speaker 2: if not full-on right-wing comedians. And it's a huge, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's been a huge shift. I mean, you know, in

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Speaker 2: the United States, it's been an enormous shift. And Joe

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Speaker 2: Rogan's a huge reason why that's happened.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that, actually.

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Speaker 3: I guess I don't keep up with the comedy scene

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Speaker 3: as much, so I didn't know that was sort of

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Speaker 3: a thing.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about that. So, yes, those same alt-right

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Speaker 2: comedians are often criticized in the same way that the

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Speaker 2: early 90s alt comedians were. That was like Bill Burr said,

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Speaker 2: it was a comedy womb that they weren't exposing themselves

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Speaker 2: to what club comedians normally did. And the same thing

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Speaker 2: is with the alt-right comedians today because they start out

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Speaker 2: on podcasts usually. Right. Not even necessarily as stand-up. They're

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Speaker 2: just funny guys on podcasts. And they go out and

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Speaker 2: they get nothing but love on these podcasts. And then

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Speaker 2: they go out. They've generated enough followers on Instagram or

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Speaker 2: whatever to automatically get booked in a club.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Apparently, I read somewhere that 250,000 followers on Instagram is

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Speaker 2: like an automatic yes for a weekend at a club,

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Speaker 2: maybe even headlining there. But some of them have zero

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Speaker 2: experience doing stand-up. And so the criticism is like, that's

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Speaker 2: not good for the person coming to see you because

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Speaker 2: they paid that money and they're expecting a good stand-up

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Speaker 2: performance when you're taking this funny guy on the podcast

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Speaker 2: out of the conversation and all that stuff. And it's

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Speaker 2: just that person on stage.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't always go very well. They don't always necessarily

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Speaker 2: become a good standup because they're funny on a podcast.

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Speaker 2: And just the same way we're like that, that funny

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Speaker 2: guy at work.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: Wouldn't necessarily do very well as a standup either because

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Speaker 2: it's a totally different context.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 3: Uh, you know, or they might like I always encourage

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Speaker 3: funny people to try it because you never know. And

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Speaker 3: we'll get to that at the end, like kind of

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Speaker 3: the best steps for dipping your toe in that pond.

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Speaker 1: But, yeah, you're right.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the gatekeeping is different these days, of course,

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Speaker 3: with social media and podcast. It's not like the old

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Speaker 3: days where you would, you know, get up at coffee

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Speaker 3: houses and open mic nights and then eventually maybe try

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Speaker 3: and crack in to doing five minutes on like a

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Speaker 3: local comedy night or something like that at.

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Speaker 1: A real club.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: If you have that social media following like you're talking about,

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Speaker 3: if you have your own podcast, like you can bypass

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Speaker 3: sort of what used to be locked gates.

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Speaker 1: Mark Maron, shout out.

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Speaker 3: And it's just a different scene now. I don't know

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Speaker 3: if it's good or bad. I think a lot of

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Speaker 3: the old school comics probably complain about it. But I'm

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Speaker 3: not a stand-up, so I just sort of see it

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Speaker 3: for what it is, I think.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's tough at the end of the day

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Speaker 2: to feel good about arguing about democratizing anything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, true.

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Speaker 2: I think the point is that there's more non-funny stand-ups

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Speaker 2: potentially than there ever have been in the history of

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Speaker 2: the world right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed.

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Speaker 2: That's not to say that all people who get their

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Speaker 2: start on social media or podcasts aren't great at stand-up.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember the girl and her boyfriend who was

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Speaker 2: hanging out backstage with us in Toronto? I think you

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Speaker 2: met them briefly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: That was Michelle Sui. And Yumi found her on Instagram.

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Speaker 2: And she is hilarious, not just like on Instagram, but

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Speaker 2: also in person. She's like a very, very early on

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Speaker 2: in her career stand up. But Party Hardiston, Patty, I

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Speaker 2: can't remember her last name. You know, Party Hardiston, she

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Speaker 2: appears on Tim Robinson's stuff sometimes.

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Speaker 1: I know her as an actor, and she is totally

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Speaker 1: weird and amazing.

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Speaker 2: Yes. If you follow her on Instagram, she's just constantly

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Speaker 2: bringing the good stuff. So, yeah, it's not a total

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Speaker 2: critique of social media or podcasts in general. It definitely

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Speaker 2: has had a massive impact on stand-up comedy. Not all

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Speaker 2: of it good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed. Should we take a break?

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 3: All right. We're going to take a break and talk

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Speaker 3: about the transition to the one-person show right after this.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: All right.

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Speaker 3: I promised talk of the one person show. And that

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Speaker 3: is it's sort of a thing where it's stand up,

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Speaker 3: but it's skinned a little bit differently. And they're often

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Speaker 3: it's usually billed as like a one person show or

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Speaker 3: like an evening with or something like that.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: And it's definitely comedy.

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Speaker 3: But there can be very deep, sad moments of pathos

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Speaker 3: and just sadness. There's usually a very well-crafted. kind of

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Speaker 3: arc to the show, like it feels much more sort

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Speaker 3: of plotted out. Mike Birbiglia, of course, is one of

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Speaker 3: the masters of this craft. Alex Edelman and his great

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Speaker 3: show Just for Us that ran on Broadway. Gary Gullman,

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Speaker 3: one of my favorite comedians of all time, he has

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Speaker 3: kind of made that transition in the last few years

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Speaker 3: to a little bit more of a one person show.

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Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Rather than straight up joke telling.

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Speaker 3: And our buddy, John Hodgman, you know, John always calls

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Speaker 3: his stand up imitation stand up like he won't say

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Speaker 3: he does stand up. And it's definitely sort of a

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Speaker 3: one person show. But it's all of this stuff is

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Speaker 3: always very, very funny. It's just sort of slightly different

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Speaker 3: than like a standard stand up set.

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Speaker 2: Yes. And those are all great examples, too, not just

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Speaker 2: of great like one person shows, but also great examples

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Speaker 2: of why a lot of people are like, that's not

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Speaker 2: stand-up comedy. That's different. That just seems to be like

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Speaker 2: an unnecessary controversy. I don't think it really matters. But

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Speaker 2: there are definitely purists out there, if it hasn't become

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Speaker 2: clear yet, who are like, this is stand-up comedy. Everything

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Speaker 2: else ain't. And that's one of the things that they

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Speaker 2: point to frequently is like, that's not stand-up comedy. One

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Speaker 2: huge target was Nanette. From Australian comedian Hannah Gadsby that

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Speaker 2: came out in 2017 and was a massive like cultural

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Speaker 2: tidal wave here in the United States for sure. And

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Speaker 2: I think in a bunch of other countries too. And

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Speaker 2: like there, it was mostly like gut punches with some

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Speaker 2: funny stuff carrying it between, but it was, And it

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Speaker 2: was not funny. And in fact, she almost kind of uses,

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Speaker 2: if not directly, I haven't seen it, but I had

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Speaker 2: to read a bunch about it. It seems like she

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Speaker 2: uses or she points out that comedy can be harmful

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Speaker 2: because it can take, you know, stuff that really needs

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Speaker 2: to get out and just kind of keep it simmered.

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Speaker 2: Like it doesn't let it out all the way. And

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Speaker 2: so a lot of people are like, that's not, don't

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Speaker 2: call that comedy. And it gets called comedy because Hannah

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Speaker 2: Gadsby started out as a standup.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Seth Meyers coined a term called claptor

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Speaker 3: comedy rather than laughter comedy. And this it's like a

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Speaker 3: show where like the audience will give applause in agreement

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Speaker 3: with the person on stage and the points that they're

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Speaker 3: making rather than like having people rolling in the aisles laughing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And in the case of Nanette. It's like they're

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Speaker 2: clapping like you're so brave for doing this. And she

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Speaker 2: is indisputably brave for having done that show. But but yes,

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Speaker 2: she's not really making people laugh or she's making people laugh.

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Speaker 2: They're laughing out of relief because it's carrying them out

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Speaker 2: of this horrific story that she's just finished, you know?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 3: You know, Tig Notaro is a very, very funny comedian.

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Speaker 3: And she actually had us perform live at her comedy

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Speaker 3: festival yesterday. And is a wonderful human being as well.

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Speaker 3: But she– Tig is probably one of the biggest risk

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Speaker 3: takers in comedy, I think. And also just from hearing

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Speaker 3: interviews with her and seeing her work, like, seems to

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Speaker 3: care as little as any comedian I've ever seen as

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Speaker 3: to what people think about her and her stand-up. That's–

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Speaker 3: Like just totally comfortable in her own skin, does what

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Speaker 3: she does. She very famously performed topless after her mastectomy

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Speaker 3: and her breast cancer.

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Speaker 1: So, you know, that's what Tig would do.

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Speaker 3: Or when she went, I don't know if you ever

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Speaker 3: saw when she went on Conan and moved the chair

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Speaker 3: around for her whole act.

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Speaker 2: No, I didn't.

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Speaker 3: She went on stage and instead of doing comedy, she,

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Speaker 3: I guess in rehearsals, I think as the story goes,

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Speaker 3: she had a routine, but realized that this chair made

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Speaker 3: an awful, like, squeaky sound when it moved across the stage.

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Speaker 3: And so she got up there and she moved this

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Speaker 3: chair around for five minutes.

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Speaker 1: That was it.

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Speaker 2: Like, was she talking while she was doing it? No.

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Speaker 2: So she just wasn't talking. She was just moving the chair.

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Speaker 1: Moving the chair. It stopped.

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Speaker 2: That's funny.

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Speaker 1: Get a reaction. Move the chair.

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Speaker 3: Conan is doubled over laughing like on the side about

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Speaker 3: just the, you know, the chutzpah of taking the charge,

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Speaker 3: doing something like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. One more thing on Claptor. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: have to just be like brave or you're a risk

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Speaker 2: taker or something like that. It can it can just

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Speaker 2: be as simple as like preaching to the choir. So telling,

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Speaker 2: you know, Democrat jokes or Republican jokes to an audience

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Speaker 2: full of liberals. That's Claptor, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, sure. Or like us on stage.

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Speaker 2: Yes, for sure. That's why I'm saying I don't think

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Speaker 2: I would translate to a good standup because like talk

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Speaker 2: about a womb, like everyone who's there knows who we are.

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Speaker 2: They listen to us. They came to see us expecting

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Speaker 2: exactly what we're doing. Remember that group of women at

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Speaker 2: the casino in Ottawa? Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I have no idea if they thought we were funny

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Speaker 2: at all. They had no idea who we were. They

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Speaker 2: just came because they got comp tickets by the casino.

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Speaker 2: And it's still not clear to me whether they thought

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Speaker 2: we were funny or if they sat there because we

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Speaker 2: called them out at the very beginning of the show

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Speaker 2: and they felt obligated to sit there now.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I bet they had a good time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't know if they thought we were like

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Speaker 3: the funniest comedians they'd ever seen, but they stayed.

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Speaker 2: They did stay. You can't argue with that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Uh, What else?

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Speaker 3: Cell phones is a big deal these days because, you know,

401
00:20:27,070 --> 00:20:30,710
Speaker 3: you can get famous and go viral for taking down

402
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Speaker 3: a heckler on stage, which has nothing to do with

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Speaker 3: your actual stand up set. It's always fun seeing a

404
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Speaker 3: comedian take down a heckler. But in the days of

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Speaker 3: social media and people with their phones in the audience.

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Speaker 3: You might become like super, super famous as a stand

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Speaker 3: up for like somebody that like jumps up on stage

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Speaker 3: and physically attacks you or something. It's an interesting time.

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Speaker 2: Yes. Or the crowd work is all it's not even

410
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Speaker 2: putting a heckler down like it's with a lot of

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Speaker 2: younger stand up comedians today. It's like prompted like, hey,

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Speaker 2: how are you doing? Are you here tonight? And then.

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Speaker 2: instead of making a joke and moving on, that's like

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Speaker 2: five minutes of material.

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Speaker 1: Like talking to the person on the front row.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And then moving on to somebody else. And it's

417
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Speaker 2: not even necessarily funny. It might be funny throughout, but

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Speaker 2: not all of them are really particularly funny. And like

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Speaker 2: crowd work is the bulk of that, that, that act.

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Speaker 2: And again, the club comedians, the purists are like, what

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00:21:36,430 --> 00:21:38,950
Speaker 2: are you doing? That's not stand-up comedy. You're not even

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Speaker 2: writing anything. You're just sitting there riffing with people in

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Speaker 2: the audience, you know?

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Speaker 1: I'm a sucker for crowd work.

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Speaker 2: Well, okay. Well, then you would like this guy. I

426
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Speaker 2: discovered him from researching. His name's Big Jay Oakerson. I'm

427
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Speaker 2: not sure his sense of humor is exactly dovetailing with yours,

428
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Speaker 2: but I think it's enough that you would find him funny.

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Speaker 2: But he interacts with the crowd by basically... It's almost

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Speaker 2: like improv where he's like, what kind of joke do

431
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Speaker 2: you guys want to hear? And somebody will say something

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Speaker 2: and he just makes up a joke on the spot.

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Speaker 2: And it's not like a one liner necessarily.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

435
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Speaker 2: Might even be like a little plot to it or something.

436
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Speaker 2: But it's pretty impressive what he's doing off of the cuff.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, Rory Scoville does that. He's probably my

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Speaker 3: favorite stand up right now.

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Speaker 2: Great.

440
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Speaker 3: He and Gary Goldman. But Rory, I mean, he has

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Speaker 3: shows where he writes a set and does that.

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Speaker 1: And that's great. But he will also do these a

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Speaker 1: lot of times.

444
00:22:31,430 --> 00:22:32,990
Speaker 3: It's like five nights in a row in a city

445
00:22:33,550 --> 00:22:35,390
Speaker 3: where he will tell everyone ahead of time, like these

446
00:22:35,450 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 3: are improv stand up shows. And man, you talk about

447
00:22:38,859 --> 00:22:41,740
Speaker 3: the guts to stand up on stage with no material.

448
00:22:42,100 --> 00:22:42,379
Speaker 2: Yeah.

449
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,780
Speaker 3: And just start making stuff up. And it's not a

450
00:22:44,780 --> 00:22:47,119
Speaker 3: 10 minute set or whatever. Like he's up there for

451
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,770
Speaker 3: an hour just making stuff up. And it's so, so funny.

452
00:22:51,250 --> 00:22:51,470
Speaker 1: Yeah.

453
00:22:51,530 --> 00:22:55,730
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing. He's funny. His mind is capable

454
00:22:55,770 --> 00:23:01,160
Speaker 2: of doing that, you know? Yeah. So you mentioned Rory

455
00:23:01,180 --> 00:23:04,260
Speaker 2: Scoville working today. There's a bunch of other people working

456
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,440
Speaker 2: today that are great in addition to him. Kyle Kinane

457
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 2: is another good one.

458
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 1: Love Kyle.

459
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,420
Speaker 2: My favorite, though, can I just go ahead and say

460
00:23:12,460 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 2: who my favorite comedian of all time is, though? I

461
00:23:14,780 --> 00:23:15,500
Speaker 2: think you might know.

462
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:16,660
Speaker 1: I think I know, but go ahead.

463
00:23:17,580 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 2: Anthony Jezelnik, is that who you're going to say?

464
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:20,139
Speaker 1: That's who I was going to say.

465
00:23:20,660 --> 00:23:22,870
Speaker 2: I don't know that there's ever been a funnier person

466
00:23:23,070 --> 00:23:25,010
Speaker 2: on the planet than Anthony Jezelnik.

467
00:23:25,500 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 1: He's great.

468
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,420
Speaker 3: And we know some people who know him and he's

469
00:23:29,580 --> 00:23:31,400
Speaker 3: he's he's a really good guy, too. Right.

470
00:23:31,660 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

471
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,699
Speaker 3: And he right now, I don't know if you know this,

472
00:23:34,740 --> 00:23:36,459
Speaker 3: you probably do, but he's got a book club now

473
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,340
Speaker 3: that he started. No. And like promoting literacy is one

474
00:23:39,380 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 3: of his big jams now. And I guess sort of

475
00:23:43,140 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 3: a joke around that was he was when he's promoting

476
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,980
Speaker 3: this stuff and, you know, he has that delivery. And

477
00:23:50,020 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 3: he said that, you know, people tell me they don't

478
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,330
Speaker 3: like to read. And I always tell them, you're you're

479
00:23:54,350 --> 00:23:58,350
Speaker 3: just reading books. books that are too long. So all

480
00:23:58,369 --> 00:24:01,510
Speaker 3: of his books and his book clubs are like really short. Uh,

481
00:24:01,609 --> 00:24:05,310
Speaker 3: and that's his, his argument is that like, uh, people

482
00:24:05,369 --> 00:24:07,590
Speaker 3: think they don't like to read because they're, they're trying

483
00:24:07,630 --> 00:24:10,030
Speaker 3: to read stuff that's too long. And so he's, he's

484
00:24:10,290 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 3: genuinely promoting like reading, uh, literacy and stuff.

485
00:24:13,260 --> 00:24:14,100
Speaker 1: It's, it's pretty awesome.

486
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:14,959
Speaker 3: It is.

487
00:24:15,380 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 2: That is the, that is the opposite of what his

488
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,479
Speaker 2: persona is. Like his persona is, is insult comic, but

489
00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:22,540
Speaker 2: also really dark.

490
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

491
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:28,270
Speaker 2: And really, um, Really egotistical and arrogant and yes, he's

492
00:24:28,310 --> 00:24:31,510
Speaker 2: not really like that in real life But he's managed

493
00:24:31,530 --> 00:24:33,890
Speaker 2: to keep that going that persona going for like 20

494
00:24:33,890 --> 00:24:37,310
Speaker 2: years Yeah, he has I think three Netflix specials all

495
00:24:37,350 --> 00:24:40,710
Speaker 2: three of them kill every time we've ever seen him

496
00:24:40,950 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 2: in person It's just like you just like you said

497
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 2: we were like Conan like doubled over laughing like yeah

498
00:24:46,900 --> 00:24:49,540
Speaker 2: laughing as hard as you ever have out loud the

499
00:24:49,580 --> 00:24:51,870
Speaker 2: bunch of other people laughing and A bunch of other

500
00:24:51,910 --> 00:24:54,350
Speaker 2: people who aren't laughing because they had no idea what

501
00:24:54,390 --> 00:24:57,270
Speaker 2: they were going to see. And if you're not prepared

502
00:24:57,290 --> 00:25:00,590
Speaker 2: to go see him, especially if you're sensitive at all

503
00:25:00,630 --> 00:25:03,110
Speaker 2: to some types of humor, you're not going to have

504
00:25:03,150 --> 00:25:08,100
Speaker 2: a good time. But I would suggest everybody go look

505
00:25:08,180 --> 00:25:09,340
Speaker 2: up Anthony Jezelnik.

506
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:10,460
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's great.

507
00:25:11,180 --> 00:25:14,220
Speaker 3: And you can't do much better these days than Mulaney still.

508
00:25:14,260 --> 00:25:16,500
Speaker 3: He's one of those that I think has sort of

509
00:25:16,540 --> 00:25:20,740
Speaker 3: mastered the craft. such that he just can do no wrong.

510
00:25:21,900 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 3: And he, next year, I tried to get tickets to

511
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,199
Speaker 3: some of these, but have you heard about his Mulaney

512
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,939
Speaker 3: takes Manhattan run that he's doing? He's doing seven nights

513
00:25:29,060 --> 00:25:31,660
Speaker 3: in New York in a row. And he's starting out

514
00:25:31,820 --> 00:25:36,250
Speaker 3: at like the comedy cellar. And then it's like comedy cellar,

515
00:25:36,430 --> 00:25:38,730
Speaker 3: then Bowery ballroom. And then he goes up and up

516
00:25:38,790 --> 00:25:40,290
Speaker 3: and up through Carnegie.

517
00:25:39,930 --> 00:25:42,590
Speaker 1: Hall radio city. And then eventually Madison square garden.

518
00:25:43,530 --> 00:25:45,500
Speaker 3: And all of those, you know, I signed up for the,

519
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,260
Speaker 3: list to try and get into any of those shows

520
00:25:48,340 --> 00:25:49,959
Speaker 3: and could not get into any of them.

521
00:25:51,300 --> 00:25:54,510
Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe that, though, except for Madison Square Garden. Man,

522
00:25:54,530 --> 00:25:56,810
Speaker 2: that's big time, dude, to sell out Madison Square Garden.

523
00:25:57,090 --> 00:25:59,489
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, dude, I think he last year went

524
00:25:59,530 --> 00:26:01,850
Speaker 3: on a run where he sold out like multiple nights

525
00:26:01,910 --> 00:26:03,230
Speaker 3: in a row at Madison Square Garden.

526
00:26:03,270 --> 00:26:05,850
Speaker 1: He's just crushing it. Yeah.

527
00:26:06,010 --> 00:26:08,430
Speaker 2: I have one more anecdote about Anthony Jezelnik.

528
00:26:09,190 --> 00:26:09,889
Speaker 1: All right, let's hear it.

529
00:26:10,270 --> 00:26:14,710
Speaker 2: We went and saw him at Funny Bone. Which was

530
00:26:14,770 --> 00:26:16,889
Speaker 2: the one that was on Roswell Road? I don't think

531
00:26:16,950 --> 00:26:17,530
Speaker 2: it's there anymore.

532
00:26:17,810 --> 00:26:18,470
Speaker 1: I think Funny Bone.

533
00:26:19,510 --> 00:26:21,690
Speaker 2: Funny Bone? No, that was out in Roswell. This was

534
00:26:21,750 --> 00:26:22,390
Speaker 2: the Punchline.

535
00:26:22,750 --> 00:26:23,070
Speaker 1: Punchline.

536
00:26:23,150 --> 00:26:23,330
Speaker 3: Okay.

537
00:26:23,970 --> 00:26:25,470
Speaker 2: So we saw him at the Punchline, which is a

538
00:26:25,510 --> 00:26:27,670
Speaker 2: really tiny club for any of you who've never been

539
00:26:27,690 --> 00:26:30,740
Speaker 2: to the Punchline in Atlanta. I mean, like maybe a 75,

540
00:26:30,740 --> 00:26:35,540
Speaker 2: maybe a hundred person seat club. So it was really small.

541
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 2: And this was the first time we saw him and

542
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,660
Speaker 2: we were just laughing. But Yumi was like really, really laughing.

543
00:26:42,700 --> 00:26:42,940
Speaker 3: Yeah.

544
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,060
Speaker 2: I think the joke that got her, he was saying

545
00:26:45,100 --> 00:26:50,010
Speaker 2: that his family scattered his grandma's ashes outside of the

546
00:26:50,130 --> 00:26:53,430
Speaker 2: funeral home because that's where his arms got tired from

547
00:26:53,650 --> 00:26:58,130
Speaker 2: carrying the urn. And just, it just got Yumi. So

548
00:26:58,190 --> 00:26:59,370
Speaker 2: she's laughing, crying.

549
00:26:59,390 --> 00:26:59,750
Speaker 1: Yeah.

550
00:27:00,170 --> 00:27:03,050
Speaker 2: So much so that he stopped the show and asked her,

551
00:27:03,109 --> 00:27:05,770
Speaker 2: he was like, what's your name? And she said, Yumi.

552
00:27:06,330 --> 00:27:08,950
Speaker 2: And he goes, I want all of you laughing like Yumi.

553
00:27:08,990 --> 00:27:11,369
Speaker 2: I want Yumi, Yumi, Yumi.

554
00:27:11,830 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: That's great.

555
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:12,990
Speaker 3: Yeah.

556
00:27:13,340 --> 00:27:16,439
Speaker 2: So that's how hard we laugh at Anthony Jeselnik. And

557
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 2: if you go check out Anthony Jeselnik and you're like,

558
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:20,780
Speaker 2: this is wrong, don't judge us.

559
00:27:21,140 --> 00:27:21,380
Speaker 3: Right.

560
00:27:22,100 --> 00:27:22,780
Speaker 1: No, he's great.

561
00:27:24,220 --> 00:27:24,619
Speaker 2: I love that.

562
00:27:24,700 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: I wish I could have seen that.

563
00:27:26,380 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was great.

564
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:28,820
Speaker 1: Should we take a break?

565
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 2: I think we should. Is this our first or second?

566
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: I think it's our second break.

567
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 2: Okay. Well, we'll find out in the edit.

568
00:27:36,820 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 3: Yeah. We'll come back and talk about some less fun

569
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:56,250
Speaker 3: stuff like the psychology of stand-up right after this. Thank you.

570
00:28:16,020 --> 00:28:18,180
Speaker 2: Okay, we're back, Chuck. And as you promised, we're going

571
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,939
Speaker 2: to stop talking about funny stuff. We're going to talk

572
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,260
Speaker 2: about the psychology of being a stand-up because there, as

573
00:28:25,030 --> 00:28:29,070
Speaker 2: you can probably guess, there's a specific type of person

574
00:28:29,130 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 2: who makes a Good stand up. And it's actually been

575
00:28:31,780 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 2: studied a little bit here or there.

576
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

577
00:28:35,060 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 3: You know, I don't think it's any secret that most

578
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 3: stand ups will say that like their comedy oftentimes comes

579
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:45,290
Speaker 3: from pain. If you polled 100 stand ups, you'd probably

580
00:28:45,330 --> 00:28:49,030
Speaker 3: be in like the 80 something percentile of people that

581
00:28:49,450 --> 00:28:51,450
Speaker 3: weren't like, yeah, I had a great childhood. I grew

582
00:28:51,530 --> 00:28:53,010
Speaker 3: up and I was just happy all the time and

583
00:28:53,030 --> 00:28:54,330
Speaker 3: everything was awesome in my life.

584
00:28:55,450 --> 00:28:56,310
Speaker 1: But they have studied it.

585
00:28:56,310 --> 00:28:58,330
Speaker 3: There's a guy named David Webb on the all about

586
00:28:58,410 --> 00:29:02,610
Speaker 3: psychology sub stack. who found some studies and found that,

587
00:29:03,410 --> 00:29:06,130
Speaker 3: you know, as it bears out compared to population averages,

588
00:29:06,910 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 3: stand-ups have higher rates of depression, anxiety, and emotional distress,

589
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:12,820
Speaker 3: which is not surprising.

590
00:29:13,740 --> 00:29:16,260
Speaker 2: No. And actually, to kind of dig in a little further,

591
00:29:16,300 --> 00:29:20,980
Speaker 2: there's something called the Oxford Liverpool Inventory of Feelings and Experiences,

592
00:29:21,220 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 2: or OLIFE. And there are some dimensions that pop up

593
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,490
Speaker 2: that comedians score higher on that. If you put the

594
00:29:29,510 --> 00:29:31,910
Speaker 2: whole thing together, you're like, yeah, I can kind of

595
00:29:31,950 --> 00:29:34,810
Speaker 2: see that's a stand up comedian. They score high on

596
00:29:34,990 --> 00:29:39,870
Speaker 2: unusual experiences. So they perceive things differently, use magical style thinking.

597
00:29:40,900 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 2: They make unexpected connections that other people might not make.

598
00:29:45,180 --> 00:29:45,380
Speaker 3: Yeah.

599
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 2: There's your jokes right there.

600
00:29:47,140 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: For sure.

601
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,980
Speaker 3: One of the other ones is cognitive disorganization. So a

602
00:29:54,020 --> 00:29:56,310
Speaker 3: thought style that may be a little more scattered or

603
00:29:56,620 --> 00:30:00,020
Speaker 3: shifting kind of quickly between things. A lot of times

604
00:30:00,060 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 3: that can really be gasoline for getting great ideas, even

605
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 3: though it may not be the easiest thing like in life.

606
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:14,590
Speaker 2: No, I mean, living with a disorganized mind is very difficult. Also,

607
00:30:14,830 --> 00:30:21,070
Speaker 2: so can introvert of anhedonia be difficult because you might

608
00:30:21,110 --> 00:30:23,750
Speaker 2: have trouble making social connections. And yet at the same time,

609
00:30:23,770 --> 00:30:28,710
Speaker 2: you want to. validation from people. So you go get

610
00:30:28,750 --> 00:30:30,540
Speaker 2: it from strangers on stage.

611
00:30:30,650 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

612
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 2: You know, it's kind of lonely and you don't enjoy

613
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 2: being around people. And that's a stand up comic if

614
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:39,660
Speaker 2: I've ever met one.

615
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And then the last one was impulsive nonconformity.

616
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 3: So, you know, someone who will break a rule, push

617
00:30:47,460 --> 00:30:50,650
Speaker 3: a boundary, obviously someone who will say something that no

618
00:30:50,690 --> 00:30:52,190
Speaker 3: one else would say, like in public, they would say

619
00:30:52,210 --> 00:30:56,450
Speaker 3: it on stage. And it's not, you know, You know,

620
00:30:56,470 --> 00:30:58,250
Speaker 3: this is like a Venn diagram when it comes to

621
00:30:58,290 --> 00:31:00,969
Speaker 3: this stuff. It's like a combination of different things out

622
00:31:00,990 --> 00:31:04,570
Speaker 3: of these lists will maybe make someone a little more

623
00:31:04,610 --> 00:31:06,500
Speaker 3: inclined to do stand up or maybe be good at

624
00:31:06,540 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 3: stand up. Yeah. But, you know, you have to be

625
00:31:09,660 --> 00:31:13,180
Speaker 3: someone who's quick witted and make quick associations between things

626
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:18,310
Speaker 3: and be comfortable not, you know, necessarily being a part

627
00:31:18,350 --> 00:31:20,850
Speaker 3: of the middle of the road of life, you know.

628
00:31:21,530 --> 00:31:21,750
Speaker 1: Yeah.

629
00:31:21,850 --> 00:31:24,010
Speaker 2: You know, when I read this and think about it,

630
00:31:24,710 --> 00:31:27,410
Speaker 2: when I see all those components broken out, I see

631
00:31:27,490 --> 00:31:31,310
Speaker 2: Dave Vettel standing there as like the example, the illustrated

632
00:31:31,390 --> 00:31:33,210
Speaker 2: example of the standup comedian.

633
00:31:33,450 --> 00:31:34,410
Speaker 1: One of the all-time greats.

634
00:31:34,910 --> 00:31:37,450
Speaker 2: Yeah. And he's like, he's like Norm Macdonald in the

635
00:31:37,490 --> 00:31:41,070
Speaker 2: sense that he's like a comedian's comedian. Like a lot

636
00:31:41,130 --> 00:31:43,990
Speaker 2: of people might not find them that funny. Sorry, Dave.

637
00:31:45,100 --> 00:31:49,260
Speaker 2: But Pretty much every stand-up comedian, especially the club comics,

638
00:31:49,420 --> 00:31:52,460
Speaker 2: are going to just say, like, that guy's a legend. Oh, yeah.

639
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,340
Speaker 3: And you can still, I mean, you can go see

640
00:31:54,380 --> 00:31:56,940
Speaker 3: Dave up in the Comedy Cellar in New York on

641
00:31:57,020 --> 00:32:00,260
Speaker 3: any given, like, random Tuesday. You know, he's still just like,

642
00:32:01,340 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 3: I feel like guys like that and performers like that

643
00:32:04,180 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 3: just love being on stage and doing it. And, like,

644
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 3: it's not about, like, you know, Patton Oswalt's still doing stand-up.

645
00:32:09,700 --> 00:32:11,140
Speaker 3: He doesn't need to do that kind of thing. He's

646
00:32:11,740 --> 00:32:14,530
Speaker 3: made a great living as an actor. But they just

647
00:32:14,630 --> 00:32:17,190
Speaker 3: love getting up there and telling jokes and making people laugh,

648
00:32:17,230 --> 00:32:18,740
Speaker 3: like in being in a room with that energy.

649
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:23,740
Speaker 2: Who doesn't? Seriously, I mean, I think anybody would love

650
00:32:23,780 --> 00:32:26,020
Speaker 2: to have all their jokes laughed at. But yeah, it's

651
00:32:26,060 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 2: just whether your jokes are actually funny or not is

652
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:28,700
Speaker 2: the key.

653
00:32:29,100 --> 00:32:29,540
Speaker 1: For sure.

654
00:32:30,340 --> 00:32:32,300
Speaker 3: You know, if you're a stand up, like I mentioned,

655
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,330
Speaker 3: you might have had like a rough go as a kid.

656
00:32:35,330 --> 00:32:38,390
Speaker 3: You probably had to not like found humor as a

657
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,340
Speaker 3: Maybe as a defense in life, like maybe you were

658
00:32:42,420 --> 00:32:44,660
Speaker 3: bullied or maybe it was a bit of survival skill

659
00:32:45,140 --> 00:32:49,340
Speaker 3: in your own family. Obviously, the worst situations if there's

660
00:32:49,380 --> 00:32:52,220
Speaker 3: real abuse, but at the very least, just like maybe

661
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,670
Speaker 3: a happy, not so happy family with family tension.

662
00:32:54,730 --> 00:32:56,370
Speaker 1: And it was a survival skill for you.

663
00:32:57,810 --> 00:33:00,770
Speaker 2: Yeah. When you're being threatened to be beaten up by

664
00:33:00,810 --> 00:33:03,770
Speaker 2: a bully, you'd say something like, take my lunch, please.

665
00:33:03,790 --> 00:33:06,270
Speaker 2: And then the bully would just crack up and let

666
00:33:06,310 --> 00:33:06,770
Speaker 2: you go.

667
00:33:07,130 --> 00:33:07,710
Speaker 1: Classic move.

668
00:33:08,770 --> 00:33:10,530
Speaker 2: There's some other things that don't fare well for being

669
00:33:10,570 --> 00:33:15,650
Speaker 2: a stand-up, too. According to a 2016 study done by

670
00:33:15,790 --> 00:33:22,310
Speaker 2: Australian researchers, the average stand-up comedian dies 10 years earlier

671
00:33:22,390 --> 00:33:27,190
Speaker 2: than people in the general population. Yeah. That's a significant

672
00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:29,550
Speaker 2: amount of time. Yeah.

673
00:33:30,150 --> 00:33:30,930
Speaker 1: How do they explain that?

674
00:33:31,210 --> 00:33:33,650
Speaker 2: Think about how much life you could pack into 10 years, Chuck.

675
00:33:34,150 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: I know. I'm thinking about my first 10 years. I

676
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:37,340
Speaker 1: accomplished a lot.

677
00:33:38,950 --> 00:33:42,890
Speaker 2: Exactly. But they looked at 200 stand-up comedians and they

678
00:33:42,930 --> 00:33:47,230
Speaker 2: compared them to comic actors and dramatic actors. And stand-ups

679
00:33:47,290 --> 00:33:50,450
Speaker 2: died younger than both, although not as much as compared

680
00:33:50,470 --> 00:33:51,730
Speaker 2: to the general population.

681
00:33:52,130 --> 00:33:52,730
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.

682
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,700
Speaker 3: I think 80 percent of those stand-ups still died of

683
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:01,060
Speaker 3: natural causes, but they were likelier to die from non-natural

684
00:34:01,100 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 3: causes like accidents or obviously overdoses is included in that

685
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:08,020
Speaker 3: or by suicide.

686
00:34:09,590 --> 00:34:12,190
Speaker 2: On a banana peel, which is the classic way for

687
00:34:12,210 --> 00:34:13,950
Speaker 2: a stand-up comedian to die young.

688
00:34:14,780 --> 00:34:16,140
Speaker 1: So what if you want to be a stand-up? What

689
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:17,580
Speaker 1: should you do? What are the steps you should take?

690
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 2: Oh, there's a lot of stuff you can do. It

691
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:22,460
Speaker 2: turns out there's a lot of people on the internet

692
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 2: who like to write blog posts about that. And we

693
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,580
Speaker 2: looked through a bunch of them and found that they

694
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 2: all kind of generally fall into the same handful of categories.

695
00:34:31,940 --> 00:34:34,509
Speaker 2: One of the basic ones, obviously, is come up with material.

696
00:34:34,610 --> 00:34:37,110
Speaker 2: You say, duh. But there's some things you have to

697
00:34:37,150 --> 00:34:40,070
Speaker 2: do to come up with material. I think most comedians

698
00:34:40,110 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 2: suggest you start with a solid five minutes of material.

699
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 2: Most of the reason why is because wherever you get

700
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,540
Speaker 2: like your shot at getting up on stage, especially as

701
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 2: somebody brand new, you're probably going to get five minutes.

702
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 2: So you just want to have that prepared and you

703
00:34:55,340 --> 00:34:58,300
Speaker 2: want to prepare way more than five minutes of jokes

704
00:34:58,440 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 2: just to start. Right.

705
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:00,620
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.

706
00:35:01,180 --> 00:35:03,980
Speaker 3: Have you seen the latest Bradley Cooper movie that he

707
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 3: directed with Will Arnett?

708
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: Is this thing on?

709
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 3: No.

710
00:35:09,230 --> 00:35:10,469
Speaker 1: It was actually pretty good.

711
00:35:11,030 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 2: You're the only person I've met who said that.

712
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,300
Speaker 1: That said it was pretty good. Oh, I liked it

713
00:35:16,340 --> 00:35:16,739
Speaker 1: quite a bit.

714
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,940
Speaker 3: It's about this guy who accidentally stumbles on stage for

715
00:35:21,980 --> 00:35:24,910
Speaker 3: an open mic night. Just this, you know, dad and

716
00:35:24,950 --> 00:35:27,790
Speaker 3: a family going through a divorce and it stand up

717
00:35:27,850 --> 00:35:30,090
Speaker 3: ends up being kind of the thing that he loves doing.

718
00:35:31,190 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I liked it.

719
00:35:32,650 --> 00:35:32,830
Speaker 3: Cool.

720
00:35:33,410 --> 00:35:33,830
Speaker 2: That's awesome.

721
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 1: Who said they didn't like it? Everyone else that you

722
00:35:38,020 --> 00:35:38,670
Speaker 1: spoke to about it?

723
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:43,140
Speaker 2: Well, people online, typically. I didn't see that it was

724
00:35:43,340 --> 00:35:47,219
Speaker 2: very well. You're the only person I know who's seen it, actually.

725
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,230
Speaker 2: From my impression, it just wasn't very well received.

726
00:35:50,870 --> 00:35:52,070
Speaker 1: Well, hey, buddy, I received it.

727
00:35:52,810 --> 00:35:54,870
Speaker 2: Okay. Well, now you give me a reason to go

728
00:35:54,910 --> 00:35:56,710
Speaker 2: check it out. If you thought it was good, you

729
00:35:56,730 --> 00:35:58,130
Speaker 2: got good taste in movies. I know that.

730
00:35:58,150 --> 00:36:00,089
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. I thought it was pretty good. But

731
00:36:00,110 --> 00:36:02,610
Speaker 1: that was a sidetrack. After you have your material, you

732
00:36:02,630 --> 00:36:03,610
Speaker 1: got to practice it, of course.

733
00:36:04,210 --> 00:36:07,169
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Especially like you can get away with having notes

734
00:36:07,230 --> 00:36:10,390
Speaker 3: on stage if you're like a super well-known comic and

735
00:36:10,410 --> 00:36:12,570
Speaker 3: you're like workshopping new material and you can make a

736
00:36:12,590 --> 00:36:14,620
Speaker 3: joke about like, oh, the notes are on my stool.

737
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,540
Speaker 3: But like you don't want to get up there looking

738
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,660
Speaker 3: at any notes if you're just starting out like that's

739
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:19,439
Speaker 3: a bad look.

740
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,140
Speaker 2: No. And actually, that brings up another Jeselnik anecdote. The

741
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,989
Speaker 2: first time we saw him was at South by Southwest

742
00:36:26,130 --> 00:36:29,250
Speaker 2: years and years and years ago. And he was part

743
00:36:29,270 --> 00:36:31,870
Speaker 2: of like four or five other comedians. And he was

744
00:36:31,910 --> 00:36:33,989
Speaker 2: like one of the last ones to get up. And

745
00:36:34,050 --> 00:36:36,100
Speaker 2: all the other comedians had their little notebooks that they

746
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,180
Speaker 2: were basically reading off of on stage. And Jeselnik gets

747
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,779
Speaker 2: up there, his stuff's totally polished and everything. And he's like,

748
00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 2: I don't have my notebook with me. I feel so unprepared.

749
00:36:44,940 --> 00:36:46,380
Speaker 1: That's good.

750
00:36:47,100 --> 00:36:48,500
Speaker 2: Then he proceeded to kill.

751
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: Of course he did.

752
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,940
Speaker 3: So once you had that material, once it's practiced, you

753
00:36:52,980 --> 00:36:55,250
Speaker 3: want to You know, you want to make it really good.

754
00:36:55,410 --> 00:36:57,210
Speaker 3: And so that means you need to do it in

755
00:36:57,270 --> 00:37:01,170
Speaker 3: front of people. So pick something very low stakes. Obviously,

756
00:37:01,210 --> 00:37:03,270
Speaker 3: if you're someone who's never done it, you're not going

757
00:37:03,290 --> 00:37:06,009
Speaker 3: to have any other choice but low stakes. It'll just

758
00:37:06,030 --> 00:37:08,509
Speaker 3: be a local open mic or something like that. But

759
00:37:08,570 --> 00:37:10,390
Speaker 3: that's where the rubber meets the road. And that's where

760
00:37:10,430 --> 00:37:13,070
Speaker 3: you're going to figure out, like, not only what's funny,

761
00:37:13,630 --> 00:37:16,610
Speaker 3: but like how you tell it. Can you tell it

762
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 3: in a different way? Can your timing be a little different?

763
00:37:18,820 --> 00:37:21,779
Speaker 3: Can you stress a certain word? Or paste something in

764
00:37:21,820 --> 00:37:24,140
Speaker 3: a little bit different way to make something that wasn't

765
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:25,839
Speaker 3: funny one night funny the next night.

766
00:37:26,610 --> 00:37:28,710
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it'll also give you some real insight into

767
00:37:28,750 --> 00:37:31,569
Speaker 2: how you should structure your five minutes, right? So what

768
00:37:31,610 --> 00:37:34,710
Speaker 2: joke goes where? You want to start with something strong,

769
00:37:34,790 --> 00:37:37,910
Speaker 2: often like a one-liner. Then you put your riskier stuff

770
00:37:37,950 --> 00:37:40,969
Speaker 2: in the middle, which doesn't necessarily mean just like, you know,

771
00:37:41,510 --> 00:37:45,670
Speaker 2: potentially tasteless jokes. But like weird jokes, maybe something that

772
00:37:45,690 --> 00:37:48,940
Speaker 2: doesn't have a punchline. And then you follow with like

773
00:37:48,980 --> 00:37:50,890
Speaker 2: your biggest joke, the one you know you're going to

774
00:37:50,910 --> 00:37:53,350
Speaker 2: get the most laughs from because then you get to

775
00:37:53,390 --> 00:37:57,330
Speaker 2: walk off stage to that applause while people are still laughing. Yeah.

776
00:37:57,590 --> 00:38:01,180
Speaker 3: And not always, but oftentimes that last joke is a

777
00:38:01,260 --> 00:38:06,359
Speaker 3: rejoinder where you might circle back to something from the beginning. Again,

778
00:38:06,380 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 3: there are no rules, but that seems to be a

779
00:38:08,980 --> 00:38:10,660
Speaker 3: formula that works pretty well. Yes.

780
00:38:11,700 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 2: Okay, Chuck. Here's a really important question that I'm interested

781
00:38:15,219 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 2: in exploring because no one's answered it and it's certainly

782
00:38:18,900 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 2: not settled. But the question is as follows. Should there

783
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,980
Speaker 2: be any topic that's off limits for stand up comedians?

784
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 2: What's your answer?

785
00:38:30,620 --> 00:38:34,660
Speaker 3: Well, my honest answer is no, because it just feels

786
00:38:34,700 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 3: to me like a medium that should just be completely

787
00:38:37,900 --> 00:38:42,060
Speaker 3: wide open, but it's like that free speech thing, not

788
00:38:42,100 --> 00:38:45,550
Speaker 3: free from consequences. If you wanna get up there and

789
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:49,290
Speaker 3: say awful things about a group of people or something,

790
00:38:49,410 --> 00:38:54,609
Speaker 3: I think it should be allowed, but people may hate

791
00:38:54,670 --> 00:38:57,330
Speaker 3: it and people may put up a big fuss and

792
00:38:57,370 --> 00:38:58,650
Speaker 3: hate you because of it.

793
00:38:58,710 --> 00:39:01,950
Speaker 2: Yes. Okay, well, you're in good company because basically every

794
00:39:01,989 --> 00:39:06,320
Speaker 2: standup comedian on record who's gone on record about it

795
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,660
Speaker 2: is like, yes, or no, there should not be any

796
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:12,530
Speaker 2: topic that's off limits for stand-up comedy. But if you

797
00:39:12,570 --> 00:39:14,970
Speaker 2: dig in a little further and go one layer deeper

798
00:39:15,090 --> 00:39:16,830
Speaker 2: and you say, well, wait a minute, do you mean

799
00:39:17,590 --> 00:39:21,230
Speaker 2: that no topic should be off limits for any comedian,

800
00:39:21,830 --> 00:39:26,010
Speaker 2: any individual comedian? Or you're saying that for stand-up comedy

801
00:39:26,050 --> 00:39:29,250
Speaker 2: in general, no topic should be off limits. And then

802
00:39:29,430 --> 00:39:33,020
Speaker 2: like a division. starts to come about because you reach

803
00:39:33,060 --> 00:39:36,459
Speaker 2: the question like who can say what about who. Right.

804
00:39:36,860 --> 00:39:37,020
Speaker 3: Yeah.

805
00:39:37,100 --> 00:39:39,540
Speaker 2: And that's where the debate really starts to begin.

806
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, for sure. What do you think?

807
00:39:47,820 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 2: I think it cuts both ways. I think that if

808
00:39:50,900 --> 00:39:54,509
Speaker 2: you think that you have something very funny and insightful

809
00:39:55,450 --> 00:40:00,270
Speaker 2: that you could make basically anyone laugh with that's offensive

810
00:40:00,989 --> 00:40:04,410
Speaker 2: and you're willing to take the risk, more power to you.

811
00:40:04,530 --> 00:40:06,830
Speaker 2: And I hope it is funny because something like that

812
00:40:06,850 --> 00:40:12,620
Speaker 2: can just be groundbreaking. On the opposite side, if you're

813
00:40:12,660 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 2: offended by a joke, I think that it's incumbent upon

814
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:21,020
Speaker 2: you to stop and say, why am I offended by this? Like,

815
00:40:21,300 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 2: what is actually offending me personally about this? Or am

816
00:40:25,020 --> 00:40:28,569
Speaker 2: I being offended on behalf of some other people who

817
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:30,989
Speaker 2: may not even be offended by it? And if you

818
00:40:31,010 --> 00:40:34,230
Speaker 2: start traipsing into that territory, I think you should examine

819
00:40:34,250 --> 00:40:37,730
Speaker 2: yourself a little further and your sensitivities, because I think

820
00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:40,299
Speaker 2: that that's a, That's something that can help people in

821
00:40:40,340 --> 00:40:44,580
Speaker 2: life in general, not just in taking stand-up comedy in

822
00:40:44,620 --> 00:40:46,420
Speaker 2: ways that it can just make you laugh.

823
00:40:46,940 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.

824
00:40:48,460 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 3: You know, there have been cases where there have been

825
00:40:50,700 --> 00:40:53,460
Speaker 3: comedians with like certain disabilities that get up on stage

826
00:40:54,219 --> 00:40:57,029
Speaker 3: and part of their act, sometimes a big part of

827
00:40:57,050 --> 00:40:59,509
Speaker 3: their act is making fun of that disability in a

828
00:40:59,530 --> 00:41:02,690
Speaker 3: certain way. So, you know, that's a case where obviously

829
00:41:02,750 --> 00:41:09,259
Speaker 3: someone that, or, you know, like any sort of ethnic joke, joke,

830
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,580
Speaker 3: if someone is of that ethnicity, it's obviously going to

831
00:41:12,620 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 3: go over a little bit less with less controversy.

832
00:41:15,620 --> 00:41:16,380
Speaker 2: Yeah.

833
00:41:16,580 --> 00:41:19,259
Speaker 3: If you're not of a certain ethnic group and you're

834
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:23,379
Speaker 3: making fun of a different group other than yourself, like

835
00:41:23,900 --> 00:41:25,780
Speaker 3: I still say more power to you if that's your thing.

836
00:41:25,860 --> 00:41:29,660
Speaker 3: But just be be ready if it's like not good

837
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:31,009
Speaker 3: or it doesn't work, you know?

838
00:41:31,550 --> 00:41:31,710
Speaker 1: Yes.

839
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 2: I think the key, the through line here is if

840
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,700
Speaker 2: it's funny. If it's so funny that that group that

841
00:41:37,739 --> 00:41:42,500
Speaker 2: you're making fun of or that is involved in the joke,

842
00:41:42,580 --> 00:41:44,420
Speaker 2: even if you're not making fun of them, if they

843
00:41:44,460 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 2: will laugh, then it's just legitimately, objectively funny, I think,

844
00:41:49,500 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 2: at that point.

845
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 3: Yeah. And it also depends on how much people love you.

846
00:41:54,500 --> 00:41:58,370
Speaker 3: People generally kind of love Sarah Silverman. I know, obviously,

847
00:41:58,430 --> 00:42:00,609
Speaker 3: she has people who don't like her, but she's sort

848
00:42:00,650 --> 00:42:04,810
Speaker 3: of a beloved comic. And She has got a, you know,

849
00:42:05,210 --> 00:42:10,529
Speaker 3: in her past, like some derogatory ethnic slurs in her routines.

850
00:42:11,530 --> 00:42:15,589
Speaker 3: She's made very famously, had some rape jokes in her

851
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:21,240
Speaker 3: past routines. She wore blackface. And Sarah Silverman always seems

852
00:42:21,340 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 3: to bounce back. And I think it's because people like

853
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 3: Sarah Silverman. And I love Sarah Silverman.

854
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,940
Speaker 2: She's very lovable. And the thing is, is she's not

855
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:35,660
Speaker 2: beloved by, you know— like racists, she's beloved by like

856
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 2: the people who kind of lean social justice warrior. And

857
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 2: yet she's extremely well known for telling racist jokes. The, the,

858
00:42:43,380 --> 00:42:46,980
Speaker 2: I think the reason why she's able to, um, to

859
00:42:47,060 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 2: traverse those very dangerous waters is because at the end

860
00:42:50,460 --> 00:42:55,060
Speaker 2: of the day, her racist jokes are not putting down

861
00:42:55,080 --> 00:43:01,700
Speaker 2: any group. She's actually pointing out this, like the, the,

862
00:43:02,530 --> 00:43:06,300
Speaker 2: secret thoughts that people like her or in her group

863
00:43:06,380 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 2: feel guilty about having.

864
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 3: Right. Yeah.

865
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,620
Speaker 2: So it's not like she's putting down black people. She's

866
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:15,839
Speaker 2: pointing out how, you know, like white people like inadvertently

867
00:43:15,900 --> 00:43:18,720
Speaker 2: think of black people and don't even aren't even aware

868
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 2: of it. She points that out.

869
00:43:20,739 --> 00:43:21,740
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

870
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:26,780
Speaker 3: And it obviously also matters like the power structure and

871
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:31,589
Speaker 3: the power dynamic as a comedian. So Ronnie Chang is

872
00:43:31,610 --> 00:43:34,070
Speaker 3: a comedian. His last special was incredible.

873
00:43:34,210 --> 00:43:34,629
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.

874
00:43:35,010 --> 00:43:37,170
Speaker 3: And he makes fun of white people a lot in

875
00:43:37,210 --> 00:43:40,009
Speaker 3: that show because and he can get away with that

876
00:43:40,030 --> 00:43:43,220
Speaker 3: because he's an immigrant to the United States who is

877
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:45,819
Speaker 3: in a position of less power than the white people

878
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:50,219
Speaker 3: that he's making fun of. So he's he's punching up.

879
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 3: And you've heard of like punching up or punching down,

880
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,460
Speaker 3: like punching up is is almost always funny. Punching down

881
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 3: is is usually not funny.

882
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,270
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just really not. I mean, it's just not

883
00:44:01,370 --> 00:44:05,049
Speaker 2: like textbook. It's not funny almost ever.

884
00:44:05,510 --> 00:44:08,610
Speaker 3: Yeah. And I love Dave Chappelle, but he seems to

885
00:44:08,650 --> 00:44:10,509
Speaker 3: have just gotten kind of mean with some of his

886
00:44:10,530 --> 00:44:12,989
Speaker 3: stand up. And that's to me where it kind of

887
00:44:13,030 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 3: crosses the line is like and it's just a personal opinion.

888
00:44:16,860 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 1: But I don't know. I haven't found him as funny.

889
00:44:21,420 --> 00:44:23,500
Speaker 2: I hate to say it, but I agree with you.

890
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,260
Speaker 2: I don't think it's because he's being mean. I think

891
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,030
Speaker 2: it's because he's turned kind of preachy.

892
00:44:28,370 --> 00:44:28,890
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe.

893
00:44:29,230 --> 00:44:31,569
Speaker 2: And he's gotten away from jokes more.

894
00:44:32,010 --> 00:44:32,210
Speaker 1: Yeah.

895
00:44:32,510 --> 00:44:35,069
Speaker 2: I think he's just I think he's become so uncoupled from,

896
00:44:35,850 --> 00:44:38,450
Speaker 2: you know, the average person because he's just become so

897
00:44:38,489 --> 00:44:39,230
Speaker 2: vastly wealthy.

898
00:44:39,590 --> 00:44:39,810
Speaker 1: Yeah.

899
00:44:39,989 --> 00:44:42,910
Speaker 2: That it's hard for him to relate. And then also,

900
00:44:43,030 --> 00:44:45,930
Speaker 2: I think he doesn't like being come after. I think

901
00:44:45,969 --> 00:44:48,250
Speaker 2: that that's really like affected him. And so he's coming

902
00:44:48,330 --> 00:44:50,390
Speaker 2: out offensively even harder.

903
00:44:50,430 --> 00:44:51,270
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.

904
00:44:52,010 --> 00:44:54,450
Speaker 3: But, you know, like like we said, it's like you

905
00:44:54,489 --> 00:44:56,810
Speaker 3: can say what you want, but the audiences are the

906
00:44:56,890 --> 00:44:58,730
Speaker 3: ones who are going to have the final say. So

907
00:44:58,770 --> 00:45:02,270
Speaker 3: it's society who's going to. ultimately decide like what's funny

908
00:45:02,330 --> 00:45:05,210
Speaker 3: and what isn't and who should be allowed to say

909
00:45:05,270 --> 00:45:08,430
Speaker 3: what or not, you know, because that's what you're doing.

910
00:45:08,450 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 3: You're getting up on stage in front of people and saying,

911
00:45:11,489 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 3: judge me, basically. And people will judge you one way

912
00:45:15,780 --> 00:45:16,779
Speaker 3: or the other. Right.

913
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 2: For sure. There's one other thing that really stuck out

914
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 2: to me, too, was you had said I don't know

915
00:45:22,940 --> 00:45:24,910
Speaker 2: if it was in this episode or the last where

916
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:29,489
Speaker 2: you weren't familiar with the alt-right comedy becoming a big thing.

917
00:45:29,870 --> 00:45:33,810
Speaker 2: like around Joe Rogan. I saw a really good explanation

918
00:45:33,870 --> 00:45:37,660
Speaker 2: for why that's emerged. And that was that back in

919
00:45:37,739 --> 00:45:41,460
Speaker 2: like the 70s and 80s, America was very, very conservative.

920
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 2: And so it made sense for left-leaning, liberal thinking comedians

921
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,300
Speaker 2: to be huge because the comedian's job is to basically

922
00:45:49,340 --> 00:45:52,900
Speaker 2: take on the establishment, to criticize the establishment. Well, if

923
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,760
Speaker 2: you follow the arc of American society through the 90s,

924
00:45:56,830 --> 00:46:00,290
Speaker 2: it got way more liberal and Way more politically correct.

925
00:46:00,730 --> 00:46:04,299
Speaker 2: And so the people more on the outside of that

926
00:46:04,500 --> 00:46:08,259
Speaker 2: type of society are right-leaning and they became the ones

927
00:46:08,620 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 2: whose role it was to attack the establishment. That's the

928
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,459
Speaker 2: best example I've seen or best explanation I've seen for

929
00:46:16,219 --> 00:46:18,230
Speaker 2: the rise of alt-right comedy.

930
00:46:18,630 --> 00:46:19,010
Speaker 1: Interesting.

931
00:46:19,430 --> 00:46:20,589
Speaker 2: I thought it was interesting too.

932
00:46:20,890 --> 00:46:21,069
Speaker 3: Yeah.

933
00:46:21,890 --> 00:46:24,830
Speaker 2: Hopefully these two episodes were interesting and people weren't just like,

934
00:46:25,630 --> 00:46:25,969
Speaker 2: you know.

935
00:46:26,750 --> 00:46:27,250
Speaker 1: I don't think so.

936
00:46:27,730 --> 00:46:30,370
Speaker 2: Okay, great. Well, Chuck doesn't think you guys fell asleep,

937
00:46:30,410 --> 00:46:32,450
Speaker 2: which I think means it's time for listener mail.

938
00:46:35,830 --> 00:46:38,660
Speaker 3: This is we got shouted out in a book yet

939
00:46:38,700 --> 00:46:40,779
Speaker 3: to be released. And so we're going to plug that book.

940
00:46:42,020 --> 00:46:44,760
Speaker 3: Author Sarah Addison. Hey, guys, I'm reading an advanced copy

941
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 3: of Sarah Addison Clark's new book, Paper Ghosts.

942
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: It comes out Tuesday next week.

943
00:46:51,140 --> 00:46:52,630
Speaker 3: So I guess it'll already be out by the time

944
00:46:52,650 --> 00:46:53,109
Speaker 3: this comes out.

945
00:46:53,390 --> 00:46:55,430
Speaker 1: Sure. Y'all got a shout out in the book, guys.

946
00:46:56,450 --> 00:46:59,300
Speaker 3: Uh, it's somewhere around chapter 18, although they may change

947
00:46:59,340 --> 00:47:01,340
Speaker 3: since this is an advanced copy, but one of the

948
00:47:01,380 --> 00:47:03,779
Speaker 3: main characters had been talking with her friend on the

949
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,720
Speaker 3: phone about the main plot line. And the next sentence

950
00:47:06,780 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 3: is after they hung up Bailey queued an episode of

951
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,670
Speaker 3: the stuff you should know podcast, this one explaining chaos theory,

952
00:47:13,790 --> 00:47:14,930
Speaker 3: which seemed appropriate.

953
00:47:15,790 --> 00:47:16,250
Speaker 2: I saw that.

954
00:47:16,750 --> 00:47:19,330
Speaker 1: Pretty great. Uh, Sarah Addison Allen. Well, wait a minute.

955
00:47:19,350 --> 00:47:20,170
Speaker 1: It said Clark earlier.

956
00:47:20,190 --> 00:47:22,649
Speaker 3: So I'm not sure if that was a typer or what,

957
00:47:22,690 --> 00:47:25,310
Speaker 3: but the author is Sarah Addison Allen. Okay. It's from

958
00:47:25,370 --> 00:47:27,609
Speaker 3: North Carolina. So a lot of her books, if not all,

959
00:47:27,660 --> 00:47:29,750
Speaker 3: are set in the southeast. I haven't read them all,

960
00:47:30,190 --> 00:47:32,150
Speaker 3: but I've enjoyed the ones I've read so far. So

961
00:47:32,170 --> 00:47:36,230
Speaker 3: I thought I'd share. That is from Abby Sellers.

962
00:47:36,590 --> 00:47:39,330
Speaker 2: That's awesome. Thanks for pointing that out, Abby. And thank

963
00:47:39,370 --> 00:47:42,730
Speaker 2: you to Sarah Addison Allen, too, for including us. And

964
00:47:42,750 --> 00:47:44,770
Speaker 2: by the way, you have great taste because that is

965
00:47:44,850 --> 00:47:47,150
Speaker 2: one of our best episodes, the one on chaos theory.

966
00:47:47,410 --> 00:47:49,510
Speaker 1: That's right. Everyone go out and get Paper Ghosts.

967
00:47:50,290 --> 00:47:54,130
Speaker 2: Yeah. Great, Chuck. That was well done. And if you

968
00:47:54,210 --> 00:47:56,090
Speaker 2: have seen us out in the wild and want to

969
00:47:56,190 --> 00:47:58,569
Speaker 2: share a story about it, we'd love to hear that

970
00:47:58,610 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 2: kind of stuff. It's thrilling. You can send it off

971
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:08,940
Speaker 2: to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com. Stuff You Should Know is a

972
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:10,320
Speaker 2: production of iHeartRadio.

973
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:14,390
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple

974
00:48:14,410 --> 00:48:16,970
Speaker 1: Podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows.