Speaker 1: Also media.
Speaker 2: What's JD My vances? This is it could happen here
Speaker 2: a podcast that's not behind the Bastards. But today we're
Speaker 2: doing a little mini episode on our future possible vice president, JD.
Speaker 2: Vance Garrison. How are you feeling today? Welcome back to
Speaker 2: the program.
Speaker 3: Thank you. I'm feeling pretty good.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I got a great five hours of sleep. I'm
Speaker 3: good to go.
Speaker 2: Oh, I slept eleven good for you.
Speaker 3: No, I've also been in the researching bad people whole
Speaker 3: which keeps me up late at night.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I have to do the Walls episodes tonight so
Speaker 2: we can go back to back on the vps. But
Speaker 2: I decided to start with JD. Vance, And you know,
Speaker 2: I had debated with myself, is this guy worth a
Speaker 2: full bTB episode? And I decided ultimately like no, you know,
Speaker 2: I just don't think there's enough to him yet that
Speaker 2: he deserves that. Perhaps that will change in the future.
Speaker 2: But what I wanted to do was give the listener,
Speaker 2: who I'm guessing has mostly just heard a few disjointed
Speaker 2: things about JD.
Speaker 3: A few a few things, one or two things, maybe
Speaker 3: one specific thing.
Speaker 2: One specific They probably they're probably aware of Hillbilly elogy
Speaker 2: that was like a pretty pretty big book in the day,
Speaker 2: and the movie was panned, and that was kind of news.
Speaker 2: They've probably heard the couch fucking stuff, and then they've
Speaker 2: heard allegations that he's like a straight up fascist, and
Speaker 2: you know, he thinks that single women should be dragged
Speaker 2: out into the street and shot or something like that.
Speaker 3: If you have a cat and you're a single woman,
Speaker 3: you are onto logically evil.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, a socia path. And so I wanted
Speaker 2: to provide some context for how he went from if
Speaker 2: you can remember back to twenty sixteen, he was a
Speaker 2: liberal darling for having written hillbilly elegy. Right, he was
Speaker 2: this guy, this like never trump conservative who was explaining
Speaker 2: to everyone how the evil of trump Ism had infested
Speaker 2: and you know, latched onto the minds of small town Americans. Right,
Speaker 2: That's kind of how he was framed today, where he's
Speaker 2: like this hard right maga guy, literally Trump's future right
Speaker 2: hand man, with what sounds like explicitly dictatorial ambitions. And
Speaker 2: the mystery of this story, all of it comes down
Speaker 2: to Peterteel. Right, many such cases, Yeah, as is often
Speaker 2: the case, he's a major part of life. Why things
Speaker 2: wind up where they are. The bones of JD's background
Speaker 2: story are kind of important, so I'm just going to
Speaker 2: give them rapidly. He was born in August nineteen eighty
Speaker 2: four in Middletown, Ohio, born under the name James Donald Bowman,
Speaker 2: but his parents divorced when he was a toddler. His dad,
Speaker 2: his biodad, is pretty much out of the picture right away.
Speaker 2: He is eventually adopted by his mother's third husband, whose
Speaker 2: last name is Hamil, and that's the name he's going
Speaker 2: to serve in the Marines under His mother was not
Speaker 2: very together. There's a lot of neglect and poverty and
Speaker 2: some drug abuse in his early life before his grandparents
Speaker 2: move him from Kentucky to Ohio. Now, a lot of
Speaker 2: ink has been spilled on the subject of Vance's supposedly
Speaker 2: auto biographical book Hillbilly Elegy, which paints him as a
Speaker 2: member of the aggrieved and abused white underclass, the forgotten
Speaker 2: men of American politics. I'm not interested in relitigating this
Speaker 2: stupid book, except to say that I had a kind
Speaker 2: of similar background. My dad was in the picture, but
Speaker 2: socioeconomically it was kind of similar. We grew up in
Speaker 2: a very poor and troubled small town. Eventually, my caretakers
Speaker 2: got me out of there into a more functional part
Speaker 2: of the country. And I can see I see JD's
Speaker 2: book as kind of cynically positioned to take advantage of
Speaker 2: the liberal outpouring of sympathy for rural whites that followed
Speaker 2: Trump's twenty sixteen victory, an attempt to position himself as someone
Speaker 2: who can explain why this part of the country swept
Speaker 2: Trump into power. Now, the reality is that this part
Speaker 2: of the country did not sweep Trump into power. The
Speaker 2: core of Trump support in twenty sixteen were aggrieved, but
Speaker 2: financially comfortable, suburban white people. Vance did not write about
Speaker 2: poor folks addicted to oxy in the hollers with any
Speaker 2: real empathy. He painted them as helpless fools and mental children,
Speaker 2: in himself as better for getting out. And that's really
Speaker 2: all I have to say on the matter. To me,
Speaker 2: his early life suggests a young man who wanted to
Speaker 2: set himself up for a career in public life and
Speaker 2: took the most expedient actions to do so. And that
Speaker 2: is the context under which I see his service in
Speaker 2: the US Marine Corps. He joined the Marines and got
Speaker 2: himself the job that would get him as close to
Speaker 2: action as possible without requiring that he actually do anything.
Speaker 2: His specific gig was public affairs for a marine aircraft wing,
Speaker 2: so he is writing about the shit that this aircraft
Speaker 2: wing is doing, which is about the least job that
Speaker 2: you can actually have in the military. He wrote that
Speaker 2: he was quote lucky to escape any real fighting. After
Speaker 2: finishing his term, he got a BA in polysci And
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that you have to fight, for most
Speaker 2: of what the military does is not literally fighting. I'm
Speaker 2: just saying I see his specific positioning himself with this
Speaker 2: job as him wanting to have marine on his CV
Speaker 2: when he goes into politics. Right, that's my allegation, right,
Speaker 2: Not that there's anything wrong with not fighting.
Speaker 3: Sure, I mean, and it's also just good to point
Speaker 3: out considering most of the rights attacks against Walls right
Speaker 3: now are also about him not actually like seeing combat,
Speaker 3: and Vance has gone after him for that specifically.
Speaker 2: Yeah, trying to like.
Speaker 3: Allude to like Vance having more combat experience. Yeah, both
Speaker 3: men did not like fire bullets at enemy combatants.
Speaker 2: No, and most people don't. But what I see with
Speaker 2: Vance's service is I did this because it was a
Speaker 2: line in my resume, whereas you don't do twenty four
Speaker 2: years in the National Guard like just to set up
Speaker 2: your political career. Now you do that because you want
Speaker 2: to be in the National Guard.
Speaker 3: Yes, Walts was definitely more like a career man in
Speaker 3: that sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. After finishing his term, he got a
Speaker 2: BA in polysci and philosophy from Ohio State and during
Speaker 2: his first year in college he worked for a Republican
Speaker 2: States senator. He's going to work for a couple of Republicans.
Speaker 2: And his college in grad school, you know, law school
Speaker 2: years then he attended Yale Law School. He made friends
Speaker 2: with Jamil Giovanni, who would go on to be a
Speaker 2: Conservative parliamentarian in Canada. He was mentored by professor Amy Chua,
Speaker 2: who wrote a book about being a Tiger mom that
Speaker 2: made a lot of people angry and was beloved by
Speaker 2: the chunk of the country who thinks the children have
Speaker 2: it too easy. Chua helped to convince him to write
Speaker 2: Hillbilly Elegy, which might be her worst sin, almost definitely
Speaker 2: is her worst sin. I can forgive some terrible acts
Speaker 2: towards children if you don't write the book Hillbilly Elogy.
Speaker 2: It was when Vance graduated from Yale that he first
Speaker 2: made contact with the man who would come to define
Speaker 2: his adult political journey. Peter Teel, the PayPal co founder
Speaker 2: and serial entrepreneur investor, had taken a rapid turn from
Speaker 2: his earlier libertarian politics thanks to a growing interest in
Speaker 2: a line of political philosophy known mostly as neo reactionary
Speaker 2: or NRX thought, although today you'll more often hear it
Speaker 2: described as the new right. I'm not in love with
Speaker 2: either of those terms for this particular chunk of the right.
Speaker 2: But I think neo reactionary is better than new right.
Speaker 3: Not as bad as dark and life.
Speaker 2: It's not as bad as dark and we'll talk the
Speaker 2: worst of these three terms, by far the worst of
Speaker 2: the three terms. So I tend to stick with neo reactionary.
Speaker 2: Although if you hear new right being used, that's that's
Speaker 2: also what this refers to.
Speaker 3: That's a term I've used sometimes. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: What time period is is just like twenty seventeen, like
Speaker 3: where are we at here?
Speaker 2: Twenty eleven is when he sees Peter Teal speak at Yale,
Speaker 2: which he describes as like the moment around which his
Speaker 2: life pivots.
Speaker 3: So this is pre the publishing of his book.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, he publishes He'll BILLI Elogy in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 3: Okay, so he kind of got in on the ground
Speaker 3: floor of some of this kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: Yes, he is very early in teal world. He's one
Speaker 2: of the first, he's going to be one of We're
Speaker 2: getting to that. But I want to talk about what
Speaker 2: neo reactionaries are because the rest of this isn't going
Speaker 2: to make sense unless we go into that.
Speaker 3: So sure.
Speaker 2: Vanity Fair writer James Pogue rather ably described the New
Speaker 2: Right as a worldview in direct competition to the liberal
Speaker 2: idea that economic growth and technological innovation would lead us
Speaker 2: to a better future. Instead, the growth of big tech surveillance,
Speaker 2: nanny state governance, and social justice culture war dominance has
Speaker 2: created a system of oppression that will destroy everything good
Speaker 2: in the world if not stopped. The primary high priest
Speaker 2: of this school of thought is Curtis Yarvin, who in
Speaker 2: the early aughts from about two thousand and seven to
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen blogged prolifically as Mincius Moldbug. Now, Jarvin is
Speaker 2: a computer programmer. He is this guy who has had
Speaker 2: for most of his career this desire to create a
Speaker 2: new computer operating system that would like fix the way
Speaker 2: in which knowledge is disseminated in a way that sounds
Speaker 2: kind of magical to me. He never quite gets it working,
Speaker 2: and he blogs about political philosophy the same way he
Speaker 2: talks about programming, which he has this dream for a
Speaker 2: way to reorient society after a soft, kind of peaceful coup.
Speaker 2: He always emphasizes how peaceful it needs to be, that
Speaker 2: will be, you know. Again, it's his way if he
Speaker 2: wants to program society to make it work perfectly, you know,
Speaker 2: based on his sort of set of values. And he
Speaker 2: writes a series of essays how he wants to reorient society,
Speaker 2: and these essays become kind of the central underpinning ethos
Speaker 2: of the messy assortment of philosophies that we call neo
Speaker 2: reactionaries or the new right. Now. The basic idea is
Speaker 2: that this liberal nightmare healscape can only be stopped and
Speaker 2: turned back by replacing democracy with an essentially monarchic system.
Speaker 2: Pogue describes Jarvin as arguing for quote a Caesar like
Speaker 2: figure to take power back from this devolved oligarchy and
Speaker 2: replace it with a monarchical regime run like a startup
Speaker 2: As early as twenty twelve, he proposed the acronym rage
Speaker 2: retire all government employees as a shorthand for a first
Speaker 2: step and the overthrow of the American regime. What we needed,
Speaker 2: Yarvin thought was a national CEO or what's called a dictator. Now,
Speaker 2: a lot of guys in the aughts become enraptured by
Speaker 2: Jarvin's ideas because the way Jarvin writes, he spends most
Speaker 2: of his free time because he gets bought out of
Speaker 2: a company he's in, and he doesn't wind up like
Speaker 2: super rich, but he winds up comfortable enough that he's
Speaker 2: for a while just spending like five hundred bucks a
Speaker 2: month on books and reading like old reactionary tracts, like
Speaker 2: books from the eighteen hundreds of like monarchists arguing against
Speaker 2: you know, the Enlightenment and socialism and the like. And
Speaker 2: so he peppers his essays with a lot of different
Speaker 2: kind of archaic flourishes, a lot of Latin, a lot
Speaker 2: of like references to Greek and Roman philosophical figures. And
Speaker 2: that is fucking catnip for a certain kind of guy.
Speaker 3: Now, it makes it makes it seem like esoteric. It's
Speaker 3: like it's kind of like, yes, like hidden knowledge, it's
Speaker 3: being like rediscovered that like holds the key to fix
Speaker 3: all of our problems.
Speaker 2: Yes, he is. If you've read Enders Game, he's doing
Speaker 2: what Ender's brother does at Enders Game, where he's writing
Speaker 2: his little essays for the Internet, trying to like overthrow
Speaker 2: the government using them. And there's a certain certain kind
Speaker 2: of guy who is just deeply attracted to that idea.
Speaker 2: One of those kinds of guys is a philosopher called
Speaker 2: Nick Land. Land is an interesting character. We talk about
Speaker 2: him a little during our AI Cult episodes. He's a
Speaker 2: dude who comes out of academia and kind of has
Speaker 2: now moved around to essentially like fascist political philosophy would
Speaker 2: be kind of the quickest way to describe Land today.
Speaker 2: Although he's a complicated fellow. But he is the guy
Speaker 2: who who comes up with the term dark enlightenment for
Speaker 2: Curtis's writing. And this is the way in which a
Speaker 2: lot of these guys, a lot of the guys especially
Speaker 2: who are going to come into Jarvin's work around the
Speaker 2: mid aughts, are going to think about it right where
Speaker 2: it's this, he has pulled the wool from my eyes, right.
Speaker 2: He has made it clear how doomed democracy is that
Speaker 2: it's fundamentally evil. And now that I've had this dark revelation,
Speaker 2: I can never look at the world the same way again.
Speaker 3: Right, And like Land was trying to do the same
Speaker 3: thing for like the previous like fifteen years, and he
Speaker 3: attracted a small batch of like kind of like academic followers.
Speaker 3: A whole bunch of his colleagues kind of got more
Speaker 3: popular than him because they were slightly more reasonable in
Speaker 3: many ways.
Speaker 2: Because Land's writing is never going to be like the
Speaker 2: most viral thing on earth, right, Like, yeah, and mold
Speaker 2: Bugs is a little better written for that, although both
Speaker 2: of them are too dense. The guys who are going to,
Speaker 2: like like Vance is going to be the guys who
Speaker 2: are going to take his theories into like mainstream politics,
Speaker 2: are going to need to trim the fat off. You know.
Speaker 2: It's also worth noting Jarvin is the guy who introduces
Speaker 2: the term the red pill to right wing politics.
Speaker 3: Right, Oh, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2: Yes, as far as I've ever seen, Jarvin is the
Speaker 2: guy who like starts using the red pill in like
Speaker 2: a really concerted way to describe like coming to these
Speaker 2: understandings about you know, race science has a decent amount
Speaker 2: to do with it earlier in Yarvin's writing career. But
Speaker 2: like all of these ideas that we now call neo reactionary,
Speaker 2: like that's that's a Jarvin original. He thinks the matrix
Speaker 2: is a work of genius, of course, which it is,
Speaker 2: but maybe not in the way that he thinks slightly. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So anyway, Peter Teel falls in love because Teal is
Speaker 2: by by two thousand and nine, Teal's writing stuff about
Speaker 2: how he thinks democracy is incompatible with liberty. Right, And
Speaker 2: when Peter Teel refers to liberty, he's not talking about
Speaker 2: like your freedom to like to love the people that
Speaker 2: you want to love, or do with your body what
Speaker 2: you want to do with your body. He's talking about
Speaker 2: his freedom as a guy with a lot of money
Speaker 2: to not have to pay taxes. Right, That's primarily what
Speaker 2: all of these guys mean by freedom. So Teal by
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine is already enraptured with these anti
Speaker 2: democratic ideas and he finds Jarvin. It's kind of unclear
Speaker 2: to me, does Jarvin actually start him on that road
Speaker 2: or I think it's more that he has started down
Speaker 2: that road, and he thinks Jarvin is doing a really
Speaker 2: good job of setting up what he's been thinking. So
Speaker 2: he starts pumping money into Jarvin, he funds some of
Speaker 2: his like software ambitions. He's just kind of generally supporting him,
Speaker 2: and he begins pumping money increasingly over the early to
Speaker 2: mid aughts into an array of influencers and thinkers who
Speaker 2: are in alignment with what we might call mold buggy
Speaker 2: in thought right, and he's doing that up to this
Speaker 2: present day, Pog writes. Teal has also funded things like
Speaker 2: The Edge Lordy and Post Left Infected New peaceople Sinema
Speaker 2: film Festival, which ended its week long run of parties
Speaker 2: and screenings in Manhattan just a few days before nat
Speaker 2: Con began. He's long been a big donor to Republican
Speaker 2: political candidates, but in recent years Teal has grown increasingly
Speaker 2: involved in the politics of this younger and weirder world,
Speaker 2: becoming something like an afarious godfather or genial rich uncle,
Speaker 2: depending on your perspective. Podcasters and art world figures now
Speaker 2: joke about their hope to get so called Teal bucks.
Speaker 2: And if you're familiar with like the Red Scare podcast,
Speaker 2: and those ladies you're familiar with, like the Dime square set.
Speaker 2: A lot of them are into neo reactionary thought and
Speaker 2: are the people that that paragraph is referring to right now.
Speaker 2: While podcasters and cultural influencers have long been useful to Teal,
Speaker 2: he's also tried to collect up and coming politicians with
Speaker 2: uneven success. In twenty eleven, he gave a talk at
Speaker 2: Yale while Vance was still a student, and discussed the
Speaker 2: stagnation of technological progress in the United States. Vance wrote
Speaker 2: that Teal was then quote possibly the smartest person I'd
Speaker 2: ever met, and this moment is the moment that his
Speaker 2: whole life pivots around meeting Peter Teal at Yale in
Speaker 2: twenty eleven. We're gonna talk about what comes after, But Garrison,
Speaker 2: you know what isn't receiving any money from Peter Teal.
Speaker 3: We also cannot say that there's no way to.
Speaker 2: It's entirely possible. It's entirely possible that we are funded
Speaker 2: one hundred percent by Peter Teal. And if so, thank you.
Speaker 3: Got to get those Teal bucks.
Speaker 2: And we're back. I've just uncovered that Peter Teal is
Speaker 2: the mind behind Chumba Casino. Garrison, this goes so much
Speaker 2: deeper than I thought, what.
Speaker 3: If Petertield instead just got really into sports betting, you know,
Speaker 3: instead of dealing with all this weird like esoteric traditionalist,
Speaker 3: like like eighteen eighties racism philosophy. What what if instead
Speaker 3: he just got really into I don't know, the Bucks.
Speaker 3: That's probably a sports team, right.
Speaker 2: He put eight billion dollars on the Raiders. He took
Speaker 2: a bath. He's fucked.
Speaker 3: He got addicted to it too. God, he could save
Speaker 3: so many lives sports, but I really couldn't save lives.
Speaker 2: I've always said that Vance decided to abandon his planned
Speaker 2: career in law, although I'm not sure I believe that
Speaker 2: was ever his intended path.
Speaker 3: Absolutely not.
Speaker 2: No, he does a couple of years in law, and
Speaker 2: he claims that Teal also is who made him decide
Speaker 2: to convert to Christianity by defying the social template I
Speaker 2: had constructed that Christians were dumb and atheists were smart.
Speaker 2: I don't know how much to believe that he's actually
Speaker 2: a Catholic. Maybe I don't.
Speaker 3: Know, but like there's this whole new batch of like, yes,
Speaker 3: people who are like a philosophically Catholic or like they're
Speaker 3: Catholic in like a quote unquote Hegelian sense when when
Speaker 3: they instruct these like larger models of like human evolution
Speaker 3: and they view like Christianity as this like thing that
Speaker 3: will drive the human species towards its like perfected form.
Speaker 3: And definitely the dark Enlightenment people are a significant chunk
Speaker 3: of kind of what caused you to who develop And
Speaker 3: we're seeing that now with like these fake movements like
Speaker 3: the Hegelian egirles, which are kind of like the weird
Speaker 3: step child of some of these like Dimes Square like
Speaker 3: influencer philosophy stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I would say he's definitely not a Catholic
Speaker 2: in the sense that your aunt is right.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 2: He is a Catholic in the sense that, like he
Speaker 2: believes there are things about social order and the roles
Speaker 2: that people should have in society that Catholicism gets right.
Speaker 2: And exactly that's that's the sense in which he's a Catholic. Right.
Speaker 2: So in twenty sixteen, the same year that Vance publishes
Speaker 2: Hillbilly Elogy and becomes a liberal darling, he joins Mythral Capital,
Speaker 2: a venture capital firm founded by Teal Peter Teel. Advance,
Speaker 2: all of these guys pretty much every time they create
Speaker 2: a company, it's named after something in the Lord of
Speaker 2: the Rings.
Speaker 3: Fucking A J. R. R. Tolkien bullshit.
Speaker 2: He would be so unhappy with this.
Speaker 3: Because Tolkien was also a Catholic monarchist, but in a
Speaker 3: very different.
Speaker 2: Way, in a super different way. Yes. So, the two
Speaker 2: young men that Teal adopts that he makes what are
Speaker 2: called generational bets in is Blake Masters and JD. Vance.
Speaker 2: And his bet is that if I really bankroll and
Speaker 2: back these guys, they are going to be major figures
Speaker 2: in US politics right for decades to come. And his
Speaker 2: first step is he makes them rich. He helps them
Speaker 2: get jobs and stuff that they get wealthy in. You know,
Speaker 2: Masters is recruited in the same way as Vance. He's
Speaker 2: given a cushy job in venture capital. He's handed a
Speaker 2: shitload of Teal books to see what he can make
Speaker 2: of them. And Vance is, you know, both of them
Speaker 2: are decent enough at this. Vance is okay at it.
Speaker 2: And within two years he gets hired for one hundred
Speaker 2: and fifty million dollar fund out of Washington that focuses
Speaker 2: on finding young companies and overlooked US cities, places that
Speaker 2: weren't seen as traditionally tech Hubs. Soon after this, he
Speaker 2: goes into business on his own, if we can call
Speaker 2: it on your own, when Peter Teal is the guy
Speaker 2: who backs your new company entirely right.
Speaker 3: Sure, I do love that that Peter Teel somehow picked
Speaker 3: the two most uncharismatic up and.
Speaker 2: Come dudes, I mean, look at Peter, what does he
Speaker 2: know about charisma?
Speaker 3: Yeah, but like it is fun that he made these
Speaker 3: two bets and Mark Kelly just destroyed one of them. Yeah,
Speaker 3: criticize the man for what you will, but.
Speaker 2: One of these weirdos go up against an astronaut on
Speaker 2: a public debate.
Speaker 3: Jesus Christ, you know, say what you will about electoralism.
Speaker 3: I'm excited to see the Walls Vance debate because I
Speaker 3: think it'll be funny.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, because Vance has big daddy issues and Walls
Speaker 2: has strong daddy energy, so we could be in for
Speaker 2: a very interesting night. So Vance forms his own venture
Speaker 2: capital form Narya Capital. This is another Lord of the
Speaker 2: Rings reference. Narya is one of the rings of power,
Speaker 2: which the rings of power are bad. Very famously, you're
Speaker 2: part of a con. An evil monster creates them to
Speaker 2: enslave you. If you are wearing one of the rings
Speaker 2: of power. You have enslaved by Saarron. That's the point.
Speaker 3: They're very famously bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. And of course one of the major investments
Speaker 2: Naria Capital makes is into Palentier, which is also named.
Speaker 3: Also famously used by the Evil Wizard.
Speaker 2: Yes, famously used by the Evil Wizard. Now, in twenty sixteen,
Speaker 2: Vance portrayed himself as a never Trumper, calling the future
Speaker 2: president want to be dictator? Well, yeah, how many people
Speaker 2: in America didn't he Rape is one of the things
Speaker 2: Vance says about Trump. So he is like not holding
Speaker 2: his punches against the man broken clock. But behind the scenes,
Speaker 2: he is in the process of being anointed by the
Speaker 2: Teal crowd, who again see him as a bet in
Speaker 2: the future of American politics. Now, this is not something
Speaker 2: I can claim to know with confidence, but it seems
Speaker 2: to me from the extant information that Vance's anti Trumpism
Speaker 2: was performative, calculated to sell books when he thought he
Speaker 2: might have a future with a new more conservative Democratic Party,
Speaker 2: triangulating to battle populus trump Ism. The fact that he
Speaker 2: remained close to Teal during this whole curiot, and that
Speaker 2: Teale spoke at the twenty sixteen RNC strikes me as
Speaker 2: evidence of a lack of any core political beliefs beyond
Speaker 2: a personal desire for power. Now, it is worth noting
Speaker 2: that as a younger man, he displayed none of the
Speaker 2: signs of social conservatism. He is always an economic conservative.
Speaker 2: He's willing to work with Republicans, right. He's one of
Speaker 2: these guys who you could definitely see economically being in
Speaker 2: line with their Republicans. But he does not evince any
Speaker 2: kind of bigotry in his early life, particularly towards LGBT people.
Speaker 2: One of his best friends from law school is a
Speaker 2: transgender woman, Sophia and Nelson. He describes her in Hillbilly
Speaker 2: Elogy as an extremely progressive lesbian, and wrote in an
Speaker 2: email to her, I recognize now that this may not
Speaker 2: accurately reflect how you think of yourself, and for that,
Speaker 2: I am really sorry. I hope you're not offended, but
Speaker 2: if you are, I'm sorry. Love you, JD. Sophia responded
Speaker 2: the next day, saying, if you had written gender queer,
Speaker 2: radical pragmatist, nobody would know what you mean.
Speaker 3: Many such cases right.
Speaker 2: The text of their emails has been shared with The
Speaker 2: New York Times by Nelson. After Vance took a hard
Speaker 2: turn to lean into the right's anti trans bigotry. This
Speaker 2: was a move that pleased Teal himself, who has a
Speaker 2: very law He has been anti trans and pushing anti
Speaker 2: trans rhetoric for years before this was a mainstream thing
Speaker 2: on the right, before the Matt Walsh types really started
Speaker 2: pivoting Republican messaging around it. Right, Yeah, and I'm going
Speaker 2: to quote from the Times here. Nelson, now a public
Speaker 2: defender in Detroit, said they visited each other's homes, talked
Speaker 2: on Zoom during the pandemic, and exchanged long emails discussing
Speaker 2: a range of subjects, from minutia of daily life to
Speaker 2: weighty discussions of current events and public policy issues. Nelson
Speaker 2: attended mister Vance's wedding in Kentucky in twenty fourteen. They
Speaker 2: pondered doing a podcast together. He suggested they call it
Speaker 2: The Lunatic Fringe, but Nelson and mister Vance had a
Speaker 2: falling out in twenty twenty one when Vance said he
Speaker 2: publicly supported an Arkansas ban on gender affirming care from miners,
Speaker 2: leading to a bitter exchange that deeply hurt Nelson. He
Speaker 2: had achieved great success and became very rich by being
Speaker 2: a never trumper, who explained the white working class to
Speaker 2: the liberal elite. Nelson said, now he's amassing even more
Speaker 2: power by expressing the exact opposite. And I think that's interesting.
Speaker 2: It does kind of point to the whole There's no
Speaker 2: core to this guy. There's nothing that he has ever
Speaker 2: really cared about other than positioning himself most advantageously. And
Speaker 2: I really do think that that gets at what actually
Speaker 2: is inside JD. Vance.
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, ap proximity to political power is
Speaker 3: the driving force for a lot of yeah, a lot
Speaker 3: of like people who get into politics.
Speaker 2: Yes, frankly, yes, yes, yeah, that's that's it. Now, it's
Speaker 2: relevant that twenty twenty one was the year Vance chose
Speaker 2: to pivot away from never Trump rhetoric and lean into
Speaker 2: the right wing culture war bullshit. Narya had been founded
Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen and had been backed by one hundred
Speaker 2: million dollars from Peter Teal, as well as funding by
Speaker 2: Eric Schmidt and Mark Andresen. Their investments included Strive asset
Speaker 2: management and investment funds started by vivek Rama Shwami, who
Speaker 2: was Teal's classmate at Yale.
Speaker 3: Oh I did not know they were classmates.
Speaker 2: Uh huh, oh, yeah, it's the class the shit fell on.
Speaker 2: For two years, he'd been allowed to keep up the
Speaker 2: fiction of a principled ex economic conservative who was horrified
Speaker 2: by the bigotry and corruption of Trump World. But by
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, with Trump out of office and Biden's presidency underway,
Speaker 2: Teel made it clear that he needed something else from Vance.
Speaker 2: We got our best texture of what Vance believed by
Speaker 2: late twenty twenty one from Pogue's Vanity Fair piece, which
Speaker 2: was written about a neo reactionary summit in October of
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one. Quote. Vance believes that a well educated
Speaker 2: and culturally liberal American elite has greatly benefited from globalization,
Speaker 2: the financialization of our economy, and the growing power of
Speaker 2: big tech. This has led an ivy League intellectual and
Speaker 2: management class a quasi aristocracy. He calls the regime to
Speaker 2: adopt a set of economic and cultural interests that directly
Speaker 2: opposed those of people in places like Middletown, Ohio, where
Speaker 2: he grew up in the vancy. In view, this class
Speaker 2: has no stake in what people on the New right
Speaker 2: call the real economy, the farm and factory jobs that
Speaker 2: months disdained class life in Middle America. This is a
Speaker 2: fundamental difference between new right figures like Vance and the
Speaker 2: Reaganite right wingers of their parents' generation. To Vance, and
Speaker 2: he said, this culture war is class warfare. Vance recently
Speaker 2: told an interviewer, I got to be honest with you,
Speaker 2: I don't really care about what happens to Ukraine, a
Speaker 2: flick at the fact that he thinks that the American
Speaker 2: led global order is as much about enriching defense contractors
Speaker 2: and think tank types as it is about defending America's interest.
Speaker 2: I do care about the fact that in my community
Speaker 2: right now, the leading cause of death among eighteen to
Speaker 2: forty five year olds is Mexican fentanyl. His criticisms of
Speaker 2: big tech as enemies of Western civilization often get lost
Speaker 2: in the run of Republican outrage over Trump being kicked
Speaker 2: off Twitter and Facebook, although they go much deeper than this.
Speaker 2: Vance believes that the regime has sold an elusive story
Speaker 2: that consumer gadgets and social media are constantly making our
Speaker 2: lives better, even his wages stagnate and technology feeds an
Speaker 2: epidemic of depression. Now he is backed entirely by social
Speaker 2: media money. Sure Teel is one of the major backers
Speaker 2: of Facebook. Right of course, he is supported entirely by
Speaker 2: the money of the people he claims to hate, who
Speaker 2: he claims are destroying America.
Speaker 3: I do find this to be really interesting because it's
Speaker 3: like a more conservative right reaction to like right wing neoliberalism. Right,
Speaker 3: this is so different. Even though all these guys like
Speaker 3: kind of talk about how they're like Reagan right, they're
Speaker 3: really not. Now they're going back to a much more
Speaker 3: nineteen like twenties style of conservatism. Almost. Yes, before like
Speaker 3: the Southern split before like like a new Deal, and
Speaker 3: we solidified more of like the Democrats being this liberal party,
Speaker 3: this this more fiscally conservative party on the right, and
Speaker 3: then that kind of gave way to like Thatcher right
Speaker 3: England and the neoliberal takeover of the entire world. It's
Speaker 3: like they're looking at how like neoliberalism has been totally
Speaker 3: subsumed even by like the Democrats and like you know,
Speaker 3: centrist left liberals, and they're reacting to it with this
Speaker 3: much more socially conservative backlash. Yes, and that is really
Speaker 3: the entirety of what's happened to the Republican Party the
Speaker 3: last the last four years. And Trump's only a small
Speaker 3: part of that. Because even Trump doesn't really care about
Speaker 3: some of these types of like culture war issues now
Speaker 3: that these guys care about, Like these guys are even
Speaker 3: like further to the right of Trump on like most
Speaker 3: things in this kind of social vein, and like where
Speaker 3: you're viewing like you said, like a like culture war
Speaker 3: is class war in terms of like this culture war
Speaker 3: is like beating down like the poor white working class. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 3: these small town farms aren't the real economy. They simply aren't.
Speaker 3: The real economy is California and Texas.
Speaker 2: These beliefs, there's an element to which they sound compelling
Speaker 2: because parts of this are the stuff that everyone on
Speaker 2: the left has complained about neoliberalism. But like his solutions
Speaker 2: are fantasies. Like, for one thing, the people who are
Speaker 2: backing him are the same kinds of people and often
Speaker 2: the same people who were very much gung ho behind
Speaker 2: getting rid of American factory jobs in order to maximize
Speaker 2: their profits and the consolidation of farmland into these giant
Speaker 2: agricultural conglomerates.
Speaker 3: Right, Like he abandoned this part of the country because yes,
Speaker 3: because he knows it sucks, Like, yes, it's not like
Speaker 3: a pleasant place to live, like a decent life. It's
Speaker 3: very hard. It's very difficult.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's in part because these kind of people
Speaker 2: who came out of the Reagan era like have no
Speaker 2: use for factory workers or farmers in the United States.
Speaker 2: All of that can be consolidated into these vast enterprise
Speaker 2: is that when there are human workers necessary, we can
Speaker 2: just grab undocumented people from across the border. Right anyway,
Speaker 2: speaking of grabbing people, these ads will grab you. Dah,
Speaker 2: We're back. So by late twenty twenty one, Curtis Jarvin
Speaker 2: is still a major figure in the neo reactionary movement.
Speaker 2: VANCE has started quoting him kind of obliquely, and in fact,
Speaker 2: during this twenty twenty one National Conservative Conference that Pogue
Speaker 2: pivots on, Vance makes direct reference to something that Jarvin
Speaker 2: has written his ideas about, like we need this red
Speaker 2: Caesar when he says during an interview, we are in
Speaker 2: a late Republican period. If we're going to push back
Speaker 2: against it, we're going to have to get pretty wild
Speaker 2: and pretty far out there and go in directions that
Speaker 2: a lot of conservatives right now are uncomfortable with. And
Speaker 2: you know what that means is this late Republican he's
Speaker 2: talking about Republican Rome before Caesar, you know, makes his
Speaker 2: play for power, like that's explicitly what he is comparing
Speaker 2: it to. And it's because Yarvin's big thing is we
Speaker 2: don't want a left or a right wing dictator. We
Speaker 2: want a king for the whole country right that's going
Speaker 2: to represent everybody, which is just not what kings do.
Speaker 2: It's not what dictators do.
Speaker 3: This is so clearly there's also just like a fascist
Speaker 3: line of argument, like an actual like actual like ideologically fascist,
Speaker 3: and no people call like, you know, Reagan a fascist,
Speaker 3: but like he's not, He's a neoliberal. Neoliberals suck. Yes,
Speaker 3: these guys are going back like actual like fascist political theory.
Speaker 3: That's what Mullbug is reading, that's what he's writing about.
Speaker 2: And in twenty twenty one, Vance is saying this, I
Speaker 2: think Trump is going to run again in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: I think that what Trump should do, if I was
Speaker 2: giving him one piece of advice, fire every single mid
Speaker 2: level bureaucrat, every civil servant in the administrative state. Replace
Speaker 2: them with our people. And when the courts stop, you
Speaker 2: stand before the country and say the Chief Justice has
Speaker 2: made his ruling, now let him enforce it, which he's
Speaker 2: quoting Andrew Jackson there, but he's describing like the end
Speaker 2: of democracy.
Speaker 3: A dictatorial takeover, right, and laying out with a plan
Speaker 3: that is very similar to Project twenty twenty five. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I know Vance does have something personal connections to because
Speaker 3: a lot of his friends were involved in the planning
Speaker 3: of that.
Speaker 2: But you can see Project twenty twenty five and what
Speaker 2: Vance is saying here, these are all downstream of what
Speaker 2: Yarvin's saying in twenty twelve of this rage acronym, replace
Speaker 2: all government employees, right or retire all government employees. You know,
Speaker 2: by the way, you will be glad to know that
Speaker 2: by twenty twenty one, Yarvin has stopped openly using the
Speaker 2: term dictator. So that's good. He just he just calls
Speaker 2: it a monarchy a lot.
Speaker 3: Now, Oh okay, that's good. Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 2: Now. JD's pivot, which he often credits with his conversion
Speaker 2: to Catholicism, although you can see he's been on this
Speaker 2: road for much longer than that, was perfectly timed for
Speaker 2: his Senate run in twenty twenty two. Peter Teel was
Speaker 2: his biggest donor, providing fifteen million to the super Pack
Speaker 2: that backed him, which at the time at least was
Speaker 2: the largest amount ever given to boost a Senate candidate.
Speaker 3: Yeah, as fifty million for a Senate run is crazy,
Speaker 3: It's nuts.
Speaker 2: D been a long shot candidate at first because he's
Speaker 2: very unlikable, but the Teal money allowed for a major
Speaker 2: ad blitz and the kind of media prep work that
Speaker 2: only a well funded pack can provide. His pack published
Speaker 2: the data on an open Medium page with a username
Speaker 2: at protect Ohio values forms, which allowed the pack to
Speaker 2: send info and advice to Vance without violating federal campaign
Speaker 2: finance loss. Vance had been hit early for comments made
Speaker 2: a few years back negative to Trump, but he clawed
Speaker 2: his way back into the MAGA good graces by appearing
Speaker 2: on Breitbart News, Tucker Carlson's Fox Show, Steve Bannon's War
Speaker 2: Room podcast, and most of all, by positioning to himself
Speaker 2: as a violent opponent of immigration from a write up
Speaker 2: in Politico. In February, Thompson, who's the guy running the pack,
Speaker 2: posted a memo to the Medium site arguing that Vance
Speaker 2: had an opening to zero win on immigration and border security,
Speaker 2: noting that he had a personal connection to the issue
Speaker 2: given his mother's struggles with drug addiction. The issue was
Speaker 2: near and dear to the primary voters, the memo argued,
Speaker 2: and crucially could help in nabbing Trump's support. To win
Speaker 2: a Trump endorsement, a candidate has to show a growing
Speaker 2: ballot share to get that account, and it has to
Speaker 2: own a critical issue, the memo read. JD can do that,
Speaker 2: and that's exactly what JD does. When he takes the
Speaker 2: stage at the Conservative Political Action Conference in Florida later
Speaker 2: that month, he focuses his speech entirely on immigration, and
Speaker 2: when his campaign goes up with its first TV ad,
Speaker 2: it shows a direct to camera Vance telling viewers that
Speaker 2: he nearly lost his mother to poison coming across our border.
Speaker 2: Now by mid April, Trump has become convinced that Vance's
Speaker 2: past mean remarks were water under the bridge, and he
Speaker 2: calls an associate of Peter Teal to say, Hey, I'm
Speaker 2: moving closer to endorsing Vance. Teal by this point has
Speaker 2: also introduced Vance to David Sachs, who adds another million
Speaker 2: dollars to his super PACs war chest. On April fifteenth,
Speaker 2: Convinced by Vance's rising poll numbers and impressive fundraising, Trump
Speaker 2: makes an official endorsement this helps pull Vance over the top,
Speaker 2: and he ekes out a narrow win in the election
Speaker 2: that followed. The next year, Vance repaid the favor, writing
Speaker 2: a January Wall Street Journal op at where he endorses
Speaker 2: Trump as a candidate. In twenty twenty four, this was
Speaker 2: back and this is the start of tour three. The
Speaker 2: Republican primary is just gearing up, and the end of
Speaker 2: it is in enough doubt. You can remember back then.
Speaker 2: It sounds silly now, but people really thought Desant has
Speaker 2: had a shot, right, And so is Vance's kind of
Speaker 2: in before any of the other major Republican figures and
Speaker 2: backing Trump for his reducts round right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, He's like one of the first to fall in
Speaker 3: line here.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And there's a few people like Sarah Huckabee Sanders
Speaker 2: had been seen as a potential Trump VP pick, but
Speaker 2: she waits months to actually like endorse Trump officially. So
Speaker 2: Vance gets in on the ground floor, and this impresses
Speaker 2: Trump that he is someone who he can count on
Speaker 2: to be loyal. Vance wins more praise the next month,
Speaker 2: when a train carrying hazardous materials to rails in East
Speaker 2: Palestine in Ohio, Trump makes a visit to the town
Speaker 2: as one of the first stops on his campaign, and
Speaker 2: Vance organizes the visit, and he does apparently a good
Speaker 2: job of this. Trump says to his entourage, this guy
Speaker 2: is turning out to be fucking incredible.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: By this point, Vance has befriended Trump's oldest son, Donald
Speaker 2: Trump Junior, and set himself to the task of well
Speaker 2: and truly kissing ass to get on that twenty twenty
Speaker 2: four ticket. By late January of this year, Vance and
Speaker 2: his team had received enough friendly feedback from Trump World
Speaker 2: that they decided to invest in a full court press.
Speaker 2: Vance began showing up on TV networks that Trump considered enemies,
Speaker 2: doing a reverse Buddhage edge and throwing himself into the
Speaker 2: enemy camp to take shots on behalf of the boss.
Speaker 2: He also devoted himself to raising money for Trump from
Speaker 2: the Silicon Valley VC set. Most of these guys were teals, friends,
Speaker 2: dudes like David Sachs. What finally put him over the top, though,
Speaker 2: was an article Donald Trump Junior gave his dad from
Speaker 2: bright Bart News about the man then seen as Trump's
Speaker 2: most likely VP pick, Doug Bergham, governor of North Dakota.
Speaker 2: The article's title was Carl Rove endorses Doug Burgham for
Speaker 2: Vice president, and I do love that. Carl Rove's endorsement
Speaker 2: is the fucking kiss of death right now for a
Speaker 2: fucking VP candidate. Very funny place for his story to
Speaker 2: have wound up. Not a bad call by Trump, though,
Speaker 2: I gotta say, actually it is a bad call for Trump.
Speaker 2: But also I get it. I read one Politico article
Speaker 2: that argues this was the final straw for Trump. It
Speaker 2: was this Carl Rove article. I can't actually speak to that.
Speaker 2: It is worth noting that in the months leading up
Speaker 2: to the RNC, Trump is also being subjected to a
Speaker 2: charm campaign by all of Peter Teal's friends, this huge
Speaker 2: pile of wealthy Silicon Valley investors from the Washington Post quote.
Speaker 2: In the weeks before former President Donald Trump announced his
Speaker 2: vice presidential pick, some of tech's biggest names launched a
Speaker 2: quiet campaign to push for one of their own. Ohio
Speaker 2: Senator JD. Vance. The former president, fielded repeated calls from
Speaker 2: tech entrepreneur David Sachs, pallanteer advisor Jacob Helberg, and billionaire
Speaker 2: venture capitalist Peter Teal, Vance's former employer and mentor employing
Speaker 2: him to add the one time Silicon Valley investor to
Speaker 2: the ticket. According to three people familiar with the entreaties,
Speaker 2: all caps, we have a former tech VC in the
Speaker 2: White House. Greatest country on Earth, Baby Deli and Ashparov,
Speaker 2: of a partner at Teal's founder's fund, wrote on X
Speaker 2: after the announcement of Vance's nomination, Dellian s Parova s
Speaker 2: Parov something.
Speaker 3: Like that, Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2: I know it's it's fucking exhausting, but that is, you know,
Speaker 2: the JD. Vance story more or less, that's where he
Speaker 2: comes from. That's who wants him to be the VP.
Speaker 2: It's all of these fucking ghouls who want to own
Speaker 2: the world and become It's these people who have achieved
Speaker 2: the highest level of financial success you can achieve in
Speaker 2: any society on the earth right now, and they found
Speaker 2: that it's kind of empty. And it's kind of empty
Speaker 2: in part because people can still be mean to you
Speaker 2: and they don't have to care what you believe just
Speaker 2: because you have a lot of money.
Speaker 3: They don't like neoliberal capitalism because it fundamentally still has
Speaker 3: a shred of like a democratic value. Yeah, and that
Speaker 3: makes them too mad. Yeah, So instead they are going
Speaker 3: back to like a much a much more like archaic
Speaker 3: system where they can still maintain their personal wealth while
Speaker 3: being like very influential through like a dictatorial means. They're
Speaker 3: still like fundamentally capitalists, but almost in like a more
Speaker 3: like fascistic feudal sense. Yes, like they want to be lord. Well,
Speaker 3: that's exactly its what that's what they really want.
Speaker 2: They are terrified of death. And what they're terrified of
Speaker 2: more than anything. What scares the mostly about death is
Speaker 2: the idea that like all the success they've seen goes.
Speaker 3: Away, it's meaningless, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: Fundamentally, all of this passes. No one is on top forever,
Speaker 2: nobody is like matters.
Speaker 3: No one's going to care about PayPal in twenty years.
Speaker 2: That's the price of time, right, And they want to
Speaker 2: stop the clock. That's fundamentally what near reactionaries are. There
Speaker 2: are people who think I am special, I am super special.
Speaker 2: The world should be oriented around recognizing how special I
Speaker 2: am forever, and anything I can do to turn back
Speaker 2: the clock is necessary justified like that, That's what these
Speaker 2: people are, That's what they believe fundamentally.
Speaker 3: Like imagine being so mad that no one will remember
Speaker 3: PayPal in two hundred years, that you try to install
Speaker 3: a fascist takeover.
Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, of the United States of America, so that
Speaker 2: PayPal always matters. It's the guys anyway, Garrison. That's the
Speaker 2: James Donald Vance story. Not his name.
Speaker 3: Is that his name?
Speaker 2: No, of course not. Maybe I forget. I forget. I
Speaker 2: always forget what JD stands for, who cares? Who gives
Speaker 2: a shit? Hopefully he's not gonna matter much longer.
Speaker 3: This is this is This is my biggest thing going
Speaker 3: going into November, is that you know, if the Democrats
Speaker 3: win on on like on their ticket, that still means
Speaker 3: plenty of bad things around the world. Yeah, but I
Speaker 3: also really don't want these freaks in there, Like I
Speaker 3: really don't want them. They're they're like they're like spooky.
Speaker 3: They're trying to do like this like like esoteric larp
Speaker 3: in like the White House, like come on.
Speaker 2: And most of the things that need to happen for
Speaker 2: the world to get better can't happen while these people
Speaker 2: are in power right like or close to power like
Speaker 2: they There needs to be damage done to them, and
Speaker 2: I'm I'm hopeful about that if nothing else in this election, and.
Speaker 3: Like electoral damages is only like one type. They have
Speaker 3: to be like culturally humiliated, Like they have to be
Speaker 3: like culturally like rejected, being like no, like you you
Speaker 3: you are not actually the wizards of culture that you
Speaker 3: kind of wanted to be, Like, no one likes what
Speaker 3: you do, no one likes what you believe like that
Speaker 3: that it has to be like this this larger this
Speaker 3: larger like cultural battle. That's why they have like the
Speaker 3: culture wars. This is like super important thing. That's why
Speaker 3: they're so scared of like queer and trans people, especially
Speaker 3: the queer and trans people like that are like influential,
Speaker 3: whether they be like you know, like teachers, whether they
Speaker 3: be working like in media, making movies, television, writing books.
Speaker 3: That's why they're so freaked out with that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: That's why they're trying to get out of schools. That's
Speaker 3: why they're trying to stop Woke Disney. It's because they
Speaker 3: know that no one's gonna want to listen to these
Speaker 3: freaks when like gay people can make a good art
Speaker 3: or like give a good history lesson. Yeah, that's like
Speaker 3: there's that's like the strongest like anecdote to these like
Speaker 3: just really really bizarre like esoteric ramblings about wanting to
Speaker 3: go back to like nineteen ten, like racist science and
Speaker 3: just weird, weird shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think that these guys delved too
Speaker 2: deep and too greedily if we're going to continue the
Speaker 2: Lord of the Rings rap diferences, which by god, they're
Speaker 2: not going to let us stop doing so. And I
Speaker 2: think that there was this thing we used to I
Speaker 2: used to talk about a lot when I tried to
Speaker 2: explain like far right terminology to people back in twenty nineteen,
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, five decades ago, a thousand years ago. That's
Speaker 2: my Elron moment. I was there Garrison a thousand years ago.
Speaker 2: We talked about like the term hide your power level, right,
Speaker 2: which these Nazis used to use, and they've just completely
Speaker 2: given up on that. No, and the thing that they
Speaker 2: are seeing there was like all this. I was reading
Speaker 2: that twenty twenty two article by Poe, which I think
Speaker 2: is a really important snapshot because it's these people about
Speaker 2: to head into twenty twenty four, and they they know
Speaker 2: before the dims do how badly down Biden is. Right,
Speaker 2: the Democrats have not really taking seriously what a dangerous
Speaker 2: position Joe Biden was going to be in for reelection yet.
Speaker 2: But they also think that like, wow, all these young
Speaker 2: people are showing up at our lame parties. That means
Speaker 2: there's a broader sweep. All young people are becoming like
Speaker 2: closer to reactionaryas.
Speaker 3: Becoming like all weird treadcats.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're capturing the culture. And that's just absolutely not
Speaker 2: what was happening. And it would have been obvious if
Speaker 2: like they had been capable of actually like listening to people.
Speaker 2: But what we're seeing now is they did the most
Speaker 2: dangerous thing you could do. Is they predicted and understood
Speaker 2: one thing about the future, but nothing else right. And
Speaker 2: so they understood the weakness that Joe Biden represented and
Speaker 2: kind of the weakness of his control over the Democratic Party,
Speaker 2: but they did not understand that, like other things are possible, right,
Speaker 2: and including the fact that like Joe Biden and largely
Speaker 2: the other people who were running the Democratic Party might
Speaker 2: come to understand that weakness too. And after a disastrous
Speaker 2: debate and a shooting, go you know what, let's change course.
Speaker 2: And I really think that that, above all else might
Speaker 2: be What fucks them is they they completely came out
Speaker 2: of the woodwork. They were tired of having to pretend
Speaker 2: they didn't want a king. They thought their time had come,
Speaker 2: and perhaps it has not. We'll still, we'll all see,
Speaker 2: we'll all see.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm super excited to hear what kind of just
Speaker 3: unhinged and bizarre things Tim Walls has done. Yeah, in
Speaker 3: the next tale.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just going to accuse him of having been
Speaker 2: the Zodiac killer. You know, that's worked on a couple
Speaker 2: of guys.
Speaker 3: It seems to work.
Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, so we're just going to do that. Call
Speaker 2: it a night. Anyway, this has been jd vance. We've
Speaker 2: been It could happen here, Go to hell, I.
Speaker 3: Love you, Clean your couch.
Speaker 2: Clean your couch. Shit, I need to do that.
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