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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: What's JD My vances? This is it could happen here

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Speaker 2: a podcast that's not behind the Bastards. But today we're

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Speaker 2: doing a little mini episode on our future possible vice president, JD.

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Speaker 2: Vance Garrison. How are you feeling today? Welcome back to

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Speaker 2: the program.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. I'm feeling pretty good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I got a great five hours of sleep. I'm

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Speaker 3: good to go.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I slept eleven good for you.

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Speaker 3: No, I've also been in the researching bad people whole

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Speaker 3: which keeps me up late at night.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I have to do the Walls episodes tonight so

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Speaker 2: we can go back to back on the vps. But

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Speaker 2: I decided to start with JD. Vance, And you know,

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Speaker 2: I had debated with myself, is this guy worth a

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Speaker 2: full bTB episode? And I decided ultimately like no, you know,

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Speaker 2: I just don't think there's enough to him yet that

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Speaker 2: he deserves that. Perhaps that will change in the future.

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Speaker 2: But what I wanted to do was give the listener,

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Speaker 2: who I'm guessing has mostly just heard a few disjointed

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Speaker 2: things about JD.

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Speaker 3: A few a few things, one or two things, maybe

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Speaker 3: one specific thing.

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Speaker 2: One specific They probably they're probably aware of Hillbilly elogy

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Speaker 2: that was like a pretty pretty big book in the day,

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Speaker 2: and the movie was panned, and that was kind of news.

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Speaker 2: They've probably heard the couch fucking stuff, and then they've

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Speaker 2: heard allegations that he's like a straight up fascist, and

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Speaker 2: you know, he thinks that single women should be dragged

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Speaker 2: out into the street and shot or something like that.

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Speaker 3: If you have a cat and you're a single woman,

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Speaker 3: you are onto logically evil.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, a socia path. And so I wanted

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Speaker 2: to provide some context for how he went from if

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Speaker 2: you can remember back to twenty sixteen, he was a

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Speaker 2: liberal darling for having written hillbilly elegy. Right, he was

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Speaker 2: this guy, this like never trump conservative who was explaining

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Speaker 2: to everyone how the evil of trump Ism had infested

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Speaker 2: and you know, latched onto the minds of small town Americans. Right,

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Speaker 2: That's kind of how he was framed today, where he's

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Speaker 2: like this hard right maga guy, literally Trump's future right

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Speaker 2: hand man, with what sounds like explicitly dictatorial ambitions. And

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Speaker 2: the mystery of this story, all of it comes down

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Speaker 2: to Peterteel. Right, many such cases, Yeah, as is often

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Speaker 2: the case, he's a major part of life. Why things

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Speaker 2: wind up where they are. The bones of JD's background

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Speaker 2: story are kind of important, so I'm just going to

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Speaker 2: give them rapidly. He was born in August nineteen eighty

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Speaker 2: four in Middletown, Ohio, born under the name James Donald Bowman,

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Speaker 2: but his parents divorced when he was a toddler. His dad,

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Speaker 2: his biodad, is pretty much out of the picture right away.

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Speaker 2: He is eventually adopted by his mother's third husband, whose

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Speaker 2: last name is Hamil, and that's the name he's going

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Speaker 2: to serve in the Marines under His mother was not

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Speaker 2: very together. There's a lot of neglect and poverty and

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Speaker 2: some drug abuse in his early life before his grandparents

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Speaker 2: move him from Kentucky to Ohio. Now, a lot of

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Speaker 2: ink has been spilled on the subject of Vance's supposedly

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Speaker 2: auto biographical book Hillbilly Elegy, which paints him as a

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Speaker 2: member of the aggrieved and abused white underclass, the forgotten

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Speaker 2: men of American politics. I'm not interested in relitigating this

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Speaker 2: stupid book, except to say that I had a kind

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Speaker 2: of similar background. My dad was in the picture, but

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Speaker 2: socioeconomically it was kind of similar. We grew up in

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Speaker 2: a very poor and troubled small town. Eventually, my caretakers

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Speaker 2: got me out of there into a more functional part

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Speaker 2: of the country. And I can see I see JD's

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Speaker 2: book as kind of cynically positioned to take advantage of

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Speaker 2: the liberal outpouring of sympathy for rural whites that followed

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Speaker 2: Trump's twenty sixteen victory, an attempt to position himself as someone

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Speaker 2: who can explain why this part of the country swept

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Speaker 2: Trump into power. Now, the reality is that this part

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Speaker 2: of the country did not sweep Trump into power. The

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Speaker 2: core of Trump support in twenty sixteen were aggrieved, but

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Speaker 2: financially comfortable, suburban white people. Vance did not write about

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Speaker 2: poor folks addicted to oxy in the hollers with any

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Speaker 2: real empathy. He painted them as helpless fools and mental children,

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Speaker 2: in himself as better for getting out. And that's really

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Speaker 2: all I have to say on the matter. To me,

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Speaker 2: his early life suggests a young man who wanted to

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Speaker 2: set himself up for a career in public life and

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Speaker 2: took the most expedient actions to do so. And that

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Speaker 2: is the context under which I see his service in

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Speaker 2: the US Marine Corps. He joined the Marines and got

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Speaker 2: himself the job that would get him as close to

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Speaker 2: action as possible without requiring that he actually do anything.

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Speaker 2: His specific gig was public affairs for a marine aircraft wing,

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Speaker 2: so he is writing about the shit that this aircraft

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Speaker 2: wing is doing, which is about the least job that

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Speaker 2: you can actually have in the military. He wrote that

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Speaker 2: he was quote lucky to escape any real fighting. After

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Speaker 2: finishing his term, he got a BA in polysci And

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying that you have to fight, for most

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Speaker 2: of what the military does is not literally fighting. I'm

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Speaker 2: just saying I see his specific positioning himself with this

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Speaker 2: job as him wanting to have marine on his CV

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Speaker 2: when he goes into politics. Right, that's my allegation, right,

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Speaker 2: Not that there's anything wrong with not fighting.

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Speaker 3: Sure, I mean, and it's also just good to point

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Speaker 3: out considering most of the rights attacks against Walls right

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Speaker 3: now are also about him not actually like seeing combat,

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Speaker 3: and Vance has gone after him for that specifically.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, trying to like.

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Speaker 3: Allude to like Vance having more combat experience. Yeah, both

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Speaker 3: men did not like fire bullets at enemy combatants.

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Speaker 2: No, and most people don't. But what I see with

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Speaker 2: Vance's service is I did this because it was a

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Speaker 2: line in my resume, whereas you don't do twenty four

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Speaker 2: years in the National Guard like just to set up

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Speaker 2: your political career. Now you do that because you want

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Speaker 2: to be in the National Guard.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Walts was definitely more like a career man in

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Speaker 3: that sense.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. After finishing his term, he got a

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Speaker 2: BA in polysci and philosophy from Ohio State and during

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Speaker 2: his first year in college he worked for a Republican

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Speaker 2: States senator. He's going to work for a couple of Republicans.

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Speaker 2: And his college in grad school, you know, law school

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Speaker 2: years then he attended Yale Law School. He made friends

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Speaker 2: with Jamil Giovanni, who would go on to be a

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Speaker 2: Conservative parliamentarian in Canada. He was mentored by professor Amy Chua,

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Speaker 2: who wrote a book about being a Tiger mom that

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Speaker 2: made a lot of people angry and was beloved by

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Speaker 2: the chunk of the country who thinks the children have

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Speaker 2: it too easy. Chua helped to convince him to write

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Speaker 2: Hillbilly Elegy, which might be her worst sin, almost definitely

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Speaker 2: is her worst sin. I can forgive some terrible acts

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Speaker 2: towards children if you don't write the book Hillbilly Elogy.

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Speaker 2: It was when Vance graduated from Yale that he first

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Speaker 2: made contact with the man who would come to define

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Speaker 2: his adult political journey. Peter Teel, the PayPal co founder

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Speaker 2: and serial entrepreneur investor, had taken a rapid turn from

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Speaker 2: his earlier libertarian politics thanks to a growing interest in

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Speaker 2: a line of political philosophy known mostly as neo reactionary

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Speaker 2: or NRX thought, although today you'll more often hear it

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Speaker 2: described as the new right. I'm not in love with

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Speaker 2: either of those terms for this particular chunk of the right.

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Speaker 2: But I think neo reactionary is better than new right.

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Speaker 3: Not as bad as dark and life.

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Speaker 2: It's not as bad as dark and we'll talk the

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Speaker 2: worst of these three terms, by far the worst of

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Speaker 2: the three terms. So I tend to stick with neo reactionary.

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Speaker 2: Although if you hear new right being used, that's that's

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Speaker 2: also what this refers to.

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Speaker 3: That's a term I've used sometimes. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: What time period is is just like twenty seventeen, like

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Speaker 3: where are we at here?

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Speaker 2: Twenty eleven is when he sees Peter Teal speak at Yale,

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Speaker 2: which he describes as like the moment around which his

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Speaker 2: life pivots.

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Speaker 3: So this is pre the publishing of his book.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, he publishes He'll BILLI Elogy in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so he kind of got in on the ground

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Speaker 3: floor of some of this kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yes, he is very early in teal world. He's one

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Speaker 2: of the first, he's going to be one of We're

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Speaker 2: getting to that. But I want to talk about what

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Speaker 2: neo reactionaries are because the rest of this isn't going

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Speaker 2: to make sense unless we go into that.

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Speaker 3: So sure.

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Speaker 2: Vanity Fair writer James Pogue rather ably described the New

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Speaker 2: Right as a worldview in direct competition to the liberal

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Speaker 2: idea that economic growth and technological innovation would lead us

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Speaker 2: to a better future. Instead, the growth of big tech surveillance,

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Speaker 2: nanny state governance, and social justice culture war dominance has

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Speaker 2: created a system of oppression that will destroy everything good

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Speaker 2: in the world if not stopped. The primary high priest

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Speaker 2: of this school of thought is Curtis Yarvin, who in

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Speaker 2: the early aughts from about two thousand and seven to

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Speaker 2: twenty fourteen blogged prolifically as Mincius Moldbug. Now, Jarvin is

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Speaker 2: a computer programmer. He is this guy who has had

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Speaker 2: for most of his career this desire to create a

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Speaker 2: new computer operating system that would like fix the way

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Speaker 2: in which knowledge is disseminated in a way that sounds

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Speaker 2: kind of magical to me. He never quite gets it working,

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Speaker 2: and he blogs about political philosophy the same way he

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Speaker 2: talks about programming, which he has this dream for a

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Speaker 2: way to reorient society after a soft, kind of peaceful coup.

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Speaker 2: He always emphasizes how peaceful it needs to be, that

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Speaker 2: will be, you know. Again, it's his way if he

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Speaker 2: wants to program society to make it work perfectly, you know,

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Speaker 2: based on his sort of set of values. And he

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Speaker 2: writes a series of essays how he wants to reorient society,

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Speaker 2: and these essays become kind of the central underpinning ethos

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Speaker 2: of the messy assortment of philosophies that we call neo

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Speaker 2: reactionaries or the new right. Now. The basic idea is

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Speaker 2: that this liberal nightmare healscape can only be stopped and

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Speaker 2: turned back by replacing democracy with an essentially monarchic system.

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Speaker 2: Pogue describes Jarvin as arguing for quote a Caesar like

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Speaker 2: figure to take power back from this devolved oligarchy and

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Speaker 2: replace it with a monarchical regime run like a startup

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Speaker 2: As early as twenty twelve, he proposed the acronym rage

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Speaker 2: retire all government employees as a shorthand for a first

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Speaker 2: step and the overthrow of the American regime. What we needed,

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Speaker 2: Yarvin thought was a national CEO or what's called a dictator. Now,

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Speaker 2: a lot of guys in the aughts become enraptured by

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Speaker 2: Jarvin's ideas because the way Jarvin writes, he spends most

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Speaker 2: of his free time because he gets bought out of

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Speaker 2: a company he's in, and he doesn't wind up like

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Speaker 2: super rich, but he winds up comfortable enough that he's

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Speaker 2: for a while just spending like five hundred bucks a

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Speaker 2: month on books and reading like old reactionary tracts, like

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Speaker 2: books from the eighteen hundreds of like monarchists arguing against

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Speaker 2: you know, the Enlightenment and socialism and the like. And

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Speaker 2: so he peppers his essays with a lot of different

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Speaker 2: kind of archaic flourishes, a lot of Latin, a lot

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Speaker 2: of like references to Greek and Roman philosophical figures. And

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Speaker 2: that is fucking catnip for a certain kind of guy.

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Speaker 3: Now, it makes it makes it seem like esoteric. It's

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Speaker 3: like it's kind of like, yes, like hidden knowledge, it's

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Speaker 3: being like rediscovered that like holds the key to fix

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Speaker 3: all of our problems.

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Speaker 2: Yes, he is. If you've read Enders Game, he's doing

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Speaker 2: what Ender's brother does at Enders Game, where he's writing

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Speaker 2: his little essays for the Internet, trying to like overthrow

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Speaker 2: the government using them. And there's a certain certain kind

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Speaker 2: of guy who is just deeply attracted to that idea.

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Speaker 2: One of those kinds of guys is a philosopher called

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Speaker 2: Nick Land. Land is an interesting character. We talk about

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Speaker 2: him a little during our AI Cult episodes. He's a

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Speaker 2: dude who comes out of academia and kind of has

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Speaker 2: now moved around to essentially like fascist political philosophy would

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Speaker 2: be kind of the quickest way to describe Land today.

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Speaker 2: Although he's a complicated fellow. But he is the guy

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Speaker 2: who who comes up with the term dark enlightenment for

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Speaker 2: Curtis's writing. And this is the way in which a

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Speaker 2: lot of these guys, a lot of the guys especially

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Speaker 2: who are going to come into Jarvin's work around the

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Speaker 2: mid aughts, are going to think about it right where

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Speaker 2: it's this, he has pulled the wool from my eyes, right.

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Speaker 2: He has made it clear how doomed democracy is that

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Speaker 2: it's fundamentally evil. And now that I've had this dark revelation,

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Speaker 2: I can never look at the world the same way again.

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Speaker 3: Right, And like Land was trying to do the same

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Speaker 3: thing for like the previous like fifteen years, and he

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Speaker 3: attracted a small batch of like kind of like academic followers.

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Speaker 3: A whole bunch of his colleagues kind of got more

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Speaker 3: popular than him because they were slightly more reasonable in

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Speaker 3: many ways.

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Speaker 2: Because Land's writing is never going to be like the

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Speaker 2: most viral thing on earth, right, Like, yeah, and mold

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Speaker 2: Bugs is a little better written for that, although both

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Speaker 2: of them are too dense. The guys who are going to,

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Speaker 2: like like Vance is going to be the guys who

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Speaker 2: are going to take his theories into like mainstream politics,

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Speaker 2: are going to need to trim the fat off. You know.

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Speaker 2: It's also worth noting Jarvin is the guy who introduces

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Speaker 2: the term the red pill to right wing politics.

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Speaker 3: Right, Oh, I didn't know that.

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Speaker 2: Yes, as far as I've ever seen, Jarvin is the

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Speaker 2: guy who like starts using the red pill in like

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Speaker 2: a really concerted way to describe like coming to these

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Speaker 2: understandings about you know, race science has a decent amount

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Speaker 2: to do with it earlier in Yarvin's writing career. But

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Speaker 2: like all of these ideas that we now call neo reactionary,

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Speaker 2: like that's that's a Jarvin original. He thinks the matrix

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Speaker 2: is a work of genius, of course, which it is,

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Speaker 2: but maybe not in the way that he thinks slightly. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So anyway, Peter Teel falls in love because Teal is

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Speaker 2: by by two thousand and nine, Teal's writing stuff about

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Speaker 2: how he thinks democracy is incompatible with liberty. Right, And

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Speaker 2: when Peter Teel refers to liberty, he's not talking about

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Speaker 2: like your freedom to like to love the people that

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Speaker 2: you want to love, or do with your body what

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Speaker 2: you want to do with your body. He's talking about

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Speaker 2: his freedom as a guy with a lot of money

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Speaker 2: to not have to pay taxes. Right, That's primarily what

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Speaker 2: all of these guys mean by freedom. So Teal by

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Speaker 2: two thousand and nine is already enraptured with these anti

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Speaker 2: democratic ideas and he finds Jarvin. It's kind of unclear

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Speaker 2: to me, does Jarvin actually start him on that road

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Speaker 2: or I think it's more that he has started down

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Speaker 2: that road, and he thinks Jarvin is doing a really

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Speaker 2: good job of setting up what he's been thinking. So

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Speaker 2: he starts pumping money into Jarvin, he funds some of

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Speaker 2: his like software ambitions. He's just kind of generally supporting him,

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Speaker 2: and he begins pumping money increasingly over the early to

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Speaker 2: mid aughts into an array of influencers and thinkers who

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Speaker 2: are in alignment with what we might call mold buggy

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Speaker 2: in thought right, and he's doing that up to this

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Speaker 2: present day, Pog writes. Teal has also funded things like

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Speaker 2: The Edge Lordy and Post Left Infected New peaceople Sinema

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Speaker 2: film Festival, which ended its week long run of parties

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Speaker 2: and screenings in Manhattan just a few days before nat

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Speaker 2: Con began. He's long been a big donor to Republican

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Speaker 2: political candidates, but in recent years Teal has grown increasingly

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Speaker 2: involved in the politics of this younger and weirder world,

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Speaker 2: becoming something like an afarious godfather or genial rich uncle,

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Speaker 2: depending on your perspective. Podcasters and art world figures now

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Speaker 2: joke about their hope to get so called Teal bucks.

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Speaker 2: And if you're familiar with like the Red Scare podcast,

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Speaker 2: and those ladies you're familiar with, like the Dime square set.

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Speaker 2: A lot of them are into neo reactionary thought and

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Speaker 2: are the people that that paragraph is referring to right now.

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Speaker 2: While podcasters and cultural influencers have long been useful to Teal,

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Speaker 2: he's also tried to collect up and coming politicians with

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Speaker 2: uneven success. In twenty eleven, he gave a talk at

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Speaker 2: Yale while Vance was still a student, and discussed the

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Speaker 2: stagnation of technological progress in the United States. Vance wrote

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Speaker 2: that Teal was then quote possibly the smartest person I'd

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Speaker 2: ever met, and this moment is the moment that his

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Speaker 2: whole life pivots around meeting Peter Teal at Yale in

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Speaker 2: twenty eleven. We're gonna talk about what comes after, But Garrison,

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Speaker 2: you know what isn't receiving any money from Peter Teal.

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Speaker 3: We also cannot say that there's no way to.

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Speaker 2: It's entirely possible. It's entirely possible that we are funded

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Speaker 2: one hundred percent by Peter Teal. And if so, thank you.

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Speaker 3: Got to get those Teal bucks.

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Speaker 2: And we're back. I've just uncovered that Peter Teal is

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Speaker 2: the mind behind Chumba Casino. Garrison, this goes so much

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Speaker 2: deeper than I thought, what.

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Speaker 3: If Petertield instead just got really into sports betting, you know,

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Speaker 3: instead of dealing with all this weird like esoteric traditionalist,

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Speaker 3: like like eighteen eighties racism philosophy. What what if instead

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Speaker 3: he just got really into I don't know, the Bucks.

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Speaker 3: That's probably a sports team, right.

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Speaker 2: He put eight billion dollars on the Raiders. He took

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Speaker 2: a bath. He's fucked.

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Speaker 3: He got addicted to it too. God, he could save

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Speaker 3: so many lives sports, but I really couldn't save lives.

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Speaker 2: I've always said that Vance decided to abandon his planned

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Speaker 2: career in law, although I'm not sure I believe that

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Speaker 2: was ever his intended path.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely not.

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Speaker 2: No, he does a couple of years in law, and

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Speaker 2: he claims that Teal also is who made him decide

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Speaker 2: to convert to Christianity by defying the social template I

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Speaker 2: had constructed that Christians were dumb and atheists were smart.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how much to believe that he's actually

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Speaker 2: a Catholic. Maybe I don't.

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Speaker 3: Know, but like there's this whole new batch of like, yes,

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Speaker 3: people who are like a philosophically Catholic or like they're

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Speaker 3: Catholic in like a quote unquote Hegelian sense when when

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Speaker 3: they instruct these like larger models of like human evolution

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Speaker 3: and they view like Christianity as this like thing that

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Speaker 3: will drive the human species towards its like perfected form.

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Speaker 3: And definitely the dark Enlightenment people are a significant chunk

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Speaker 3: of kind of what caused you to who develop And

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Speaker 3: we're seeing that now with like these fake movements like

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Speaker 3: the Hegelian egirles, which are kind of like the weird

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Speaker 3: step child of some of these like Dimes Square like

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Speaker 3: influencer philosophy stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I would say he's definitely not a Catholic

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Speaker 2: in the sense that your aunt is right.

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Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, no, no, no no.

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Speaker 2: He is a Catholic in the sense that, like he

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Speaker 2: believes there are things about social order and the roles

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Speaker 2: that people should have in society that Catholicism gets right.

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Speaker 2: And exactly that's that's the sense in which he's a Catholic. Right.

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Speaker 2: So in twenty sixteen, the same year that Vance publishes

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Speaker 2: Hillbilly Elogy and becomes a liberal darling, he joins Mythral Capital,

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Speaker 2: a venture capital firm founded by Teal Peter Teel. Advance,

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Speaker 2: all of these guys pretty much every time they create

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Speaker 2: a company, it's named after something in the Lord of

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Speaker 2: the Rings.

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Speaker 3: Fucking A J. R. R. Tolkien bullshit.

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Speaker 2: He would be so unhappy with this.

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Speaker 3: Because Tolkien was also a Catholic monarchist, but in a

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Speaker 3: very different.

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Speaker 2: Way, in a super different way. Yes. So, the two

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Speaker 2: young men that Teal adopts that he makes what are

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Speaker 2: called generational bets in is Blake Masters and JD. Vance.

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Speaker 2: And his bet is that if I really bankroll and

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Speaker 2: back these guys, they are going to be major figures

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Speaker 2: in US politics right for decades to come. And his

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Speaker 2: first step is he makes them rich. He helps them

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Speaker 2: get jobs and stuff that they get wealthy in. You know,

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Speaker 2: Masters is recruited in the same way as Vance. He's

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Speaker 2: given a cushy job in venture capital. He's handed a

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Speaker 2: shitload of Teal books to see what he can make

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Speaker 2: of them. And Vance is, you know, both of them

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Speaker 2: are decent enough at this. Vance is okay at it.

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Speaker 2: And within two years he gets hired for one hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty million dollar fund out of Washington that focuses

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Speaker 2: on finding young companies and overlooked US cities, places that

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Speaker 2: weren't seen as traditionally tech Hubs. Soon after this, he

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Speaker 2: goes into business on his own, if we can call

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Speaker 2: it on your own, when Peter Teal is the guy

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Speaker 2: who backs your new company entirely right.

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Speaker 3: Sure, I do love that that Peter Teel somehow picked

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Speaker 3: the two most uncharismatic up and.

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Speaker 2: Come dudes, I mean, look at Peter, what does he

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Speaker 2: know about charisma?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but like it is fun that he made these

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Speaker 3: two bets and Mark Kelly just destroyed one of them. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: criticize the man for what you will, but.

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Speaker 2: One of these weirdos go up against an astronaut on

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Speaker 2: a public debate.

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Speaker 3: Jesus Christ, you know, say what you will about electoralism.

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Speaker 3: I'm excited to see the Walls Vance debate because I

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Speaker 3: think it'll be funny.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, because Vance has big daddy issues and Walls

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Speaker 2: has strong daddy energy, so we could be in for

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Speaker 2: a very interesting night. So Vance forms his own venture

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Speaker 2: capital form Narya Capital. This is another Lord of the

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Speaker 2: Rings reference. Narya is one of the rings of power,

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Speaker 2: which the rings of power are bad. Very famously, you're

401
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:55,280
Speaker 2: part of a con. An evil monster creates them to

402
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,119
Speaker 2: enslave you. If you are wearing one of the rings

403
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:03,879
Speaker 2: of power. You have enslaved by Saarron. That's the point.

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00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,160
Speaker 3: They're very famously bad.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. And of course one of the major investments

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Speaker 2: Naria Capital makes is into Palentier, which is also named.

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Speaker 3: Also famously used by the Evil Wizard.

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Speaker 2: Yes, famously used by the Evil Wizard. Now, in twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 2: Vance portrayed himself as a never Trumper, calling the future

410
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Speaker 2: president want to be dictator? Well, yeah, how many people

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Speaker 2: in America didn't he Rape is one of the things

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Speaker 2: Vance says about Trump. So he is like not holding

413
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Speaker 2: his punches against the man broken clock. But behind the scenes,

414
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,800
Speaker 2: he is in the process of being anointed by the

415
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Speaker 2: Teal crowd, who again see him as a bet in

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Speaker 2: the future of American politics. Now, this is not something

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Speaker 2: I can claim to know with confidence, but it seems

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Speaker 2: to me from the extant information that Vance's anti Trumpism

419
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,520
Speaker 2: was performative, calculated to sell books when he thought he

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Speaker 2: might have a future with a new more conservative Democratic Party,

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Speaker 2: triangulating to battle populus trump Ism. The fact that he

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Speaker 2: remained close to Teal during this whole curiot, and that

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Speaker 2: Teale spoke at the twenty sixteen RNC strikes me as

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Speaker 2: evidence of a lack of any core political beliefs beyond

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Speaker 2: a personal desire for power. Now, it is worth noting

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Speaker 2: that as a younger man, he displayed none of the

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Speaker 2: signs of social conservatism. He is always an economic conservative.

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Speaker 2: He's willing to work with Republicans, right. He's one of

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Speaker 2: these guys who you could definitely see economically being in

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Speaker 2: line with their Republicans. But he does not evince any

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Speaker 2: kind of bigotry in his early life, particularly towards LGBT people.

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Speaker 2: One of his best friends from law school is a

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Speaker 2: transgender woman, Sophia and Nelson. He describes her in Hillbilly

434
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,439
Speaker 2: Elogy as an extremely progressive lesbian, and wrote in an

435
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 2: email to her, I recognize now that this may not

436
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,159
Speaker 2: accurately reflect how you think of yourself, and for that,

437
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 2: I am really sorry. I hope you're not offended, but

438
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 2: if you are, I'm sorry. Love you, JD. Sophia responded

439
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,480
Speaker 2: the next day, saying, if you had written gender queer,

440
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,920
Speaker 2: radical pragmatist, nobody would know what you mean.

441
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 3: Many such cases right.

442
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:56,879
Speaker 2: The text of their emails has been shared with The

443
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 2: New York Times by Nelson. After Vance took a hard

444
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 2: turn to lean into the right's anti trans bigotry. This

445
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:04,959
Speaker 2: was a move that pleased Teal himself, who has a

446
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 2: very law He has been anti trans and pushing anti

447
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 2: trans rhetoric for years before this was a mainstream thing

448
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,679
Speaker 2: on the right, before the Matt Walsh types really started

449
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 2: pivoting Republican messaging around it. Right, Yeah, and I'm going

450
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 2: to quote from the Times here. Nelson, now a public

451
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 2: defender in Detroit, said they visited each other's homes, talked

452
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 2: on Zoom during the pandemic, and exchanged long emails discussing

453
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,439
Speaker 2: a range of subjects, from minutia of daily life to

454
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 2: weighty discussions of current events and public policy issues. Nelson

455
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 2: attended mister Vance's wedding in Kentucky in twenty fourteen. They

456
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,919
Speaker 2: pondered doing a podcast together. He suggested they call it

457
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 2: The Lunatic Fringe, but Nelson and mister Vance had a

458
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 2: falling out in twenty twenty one when Vance said he

459
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 2: publicly supported an Arkansas ban on gender affirming care from miners,

460
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 2: leading to a bitter exchange that deeply hurt Nelson. He

461
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 2: had achieved great success and became very rich by being

462
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:54,919
Speaker 2: a never trumper, who explained the white working class to

463
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,919
Speaker 2: the liberal elite. Nelson said, now he's amassing even more

464
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,640
Speaker 2: power by expressing the exact opposite. And I think that's interesting.

465
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 2: It does kind of point to the whole There's no

466
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 2: core to this guy. There's nothing that he has ever

467
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:13,199
Speaker 2: really cared about other than positioning himself most advantageously. And

468
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 2: I really do think that that gets at what actually

469
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:17,919
Speaker 2: is inside JD. Vance.

470
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, ap proximity to political power is

471
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,120
Speaker 3: the driving force for a lot of yeah, a lot

472
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 3: of like people who get into politics.

473
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 2: Yes, frankly, yes, yes, yeah, that's that's it. Now, it's

474
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 2: relevant that twenty twenty one was the year Vance chose

475
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,880
Speaker 2: to pivot away from never Trump rhetoric and lean into

476
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 2: the right wing culture war bullshit. Narya had been founded

477
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,119
Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen and had been backed by one hundred

478
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 2: million dollars from Peter Teal, as well as funding by

479
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,719
Speaker 2: Eric Schmidt and Mark Andresen. Their investments included Strive asset

480
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,120
Speaker 2: management and investment funds started by vivek Rama Shwami, who

481
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 2: was Teal's classmate at Yale.

482
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 3: Oh I did not know they were classmates.

483
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 2: Uh huh, oh, yeah, it's the class the shit fell on.

484
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 2: For two years, he'd been allowed to keep up the

485
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 2: fiction of a principled ex economic conservative who was horrified

486
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 2: by the bigotry and corruption of Trump World. But by

487
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,120
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, with Trump out of office and Biden's presidency underway,

488
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 2: Teel made it clear that he needed something else from Vance.

489
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 2: We got our best texture of what Vance believed by

490
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 2: late twenty twenty one from Pogue's Vanity Fair piece, which

491
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 2: was written about a neo reactionary summit in October of

492
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one. Quote. Vance believes that a well educated

493
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 2: and culturally liberal American elite has greatly benefited from globalization,

494
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 2: the financialization of our economy, and the growing power of

495
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 2: big tech. This has led an ivy League intellectual and

496
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 2: management class a quasi aristocracy. He calls the regime to

497
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 2: adopt a set of economic and cultural interests that directly

498
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,360
Speaker 2: opposed those of people in places like Middletown, Ohio, where

499
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 2: he grew up in the vancy. In view, this class

500
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 2: has no stake in what people on the New right

501
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 2: call the real economy, the farm and factory jobs that

502
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 2: months disdained class life in Middle America. This is a

503
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 2: fundamental difference between new right figures like Vance and the

504
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 2: Reaganite right wingers of their parents' generation. To Vance, and

505
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 2: he said, this culture war is class warfare. Vance recently

506
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 2: told an interviewer, I got to be honest with you,

507
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 2: I don't really care about what happens to Ukraine, a

508
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 2: flick at the fact that he thinks that the American

509
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 2: led global order is as much about enriching defense contractors

510
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 2: and think tank types as it is about defending America's interest.

511
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,160
Speaker 2: I do care about the fact that in my community

512
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 2: right now, the leading cause of death among eighteen to

513
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 2: forty five year olds is Mexican fentanyl. His criticisms of

514
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 2: big tech as enemies of Western civilization often get lost

515
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 2: in the run of Republican outrage over Trump being kicked

516
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 2: off Twitter and Facebook, although they go much deeper than this.

517
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,679
Speaker 2: Vance believes that the regime has sold an elusive story

518
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 2: that consumer gadgets and social media are constantly making our

519
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 2: lives better, even his wages stagnate and technology feeds an

520
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:38,719
Speaker 2: epidemic of depression. Now he is backed entirely by social

521
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 2: media money. Sure Teel is one of the major backers

522
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 2: of Facebook. Right of course, he is supported entirely by

523
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 2: the money of the people he claims to hate, who

524
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 2: he claims are destroying America.

525
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 3: I do find this to be really interesting because it's

526
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 3: like a more conservative right reaction to like right wing neoliberalism. Right,

527
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 3: this is so different. Even though all these guys like

528
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 3: kind of talk about how they're like Reagan right, they're

529
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 3: really not. Now they're going back to a much more

530
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 3: nineteen like twenties style of conservatism. Almost. Yes, before like

531
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 3: the Southern split before like like a new Deal, and

532
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 3: we solidified more of like the Democrats being this liberal party,

533
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 3: this this more fiscally conservative party on the right, and

534
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 3: then that kind of gave way to like Thatcher right

535
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 3: England and the neoliberal takeover of the entire world. It's

536
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 3: like they're looking at how like neoliberalism has been totally

537
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 3: subsumed even by like the Democrats and like you know,

538
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,199
Speaker 3: centrist left liberals, and they're reacting to it with this

539
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 3: much more socially conservative backlash. Yes, and that is really

540
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 3: the entirety of what's happened to the Republican Party the

541
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 3: last the last four years. And Trump's only a small

542
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 3: part of that. Because even Trump doesn't really care about

543
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 3: some of these types of like culture war issues now

544
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 3: that these guys care about, Like these guys are even

545
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 3: like further to the right of Trump on like most

546
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 3: things in this kind of social vein, and like where

547
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 3: you're viewing like you said, like a like culture war

548
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 3: is class war in terms of like this culture war

549
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 3: is like beating down like the poor white working class. Yeah, absolutely,

550
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 3: these small town farms aren't the real economy. They simply aren't.

551
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 3: The real economy is California and Texas.

552
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 2: These beliefs, there's an element to which they sound compelling

553
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 2: because parts of this are the stuff that everyone on

554
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 2: the left has complained about neoliberalism. But like his solutions

555
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 2: are fantasies. Like, for one thing, the people who are

556
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 2: backing him are the same kinds of people and often

557
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,360
Speaker 2: the same people who were very much gung ho behind

558
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 2: getting rid of American factory jobs in order to maximize

559
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 2: their profits and the consolidation of farmland into these giant

560
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 2: agricultural conglomerates.

561
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 3: Right, Like he abandoned this part of the country because yes,

562
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 3: because he knows it sucks, Like, yes, it's not like

563
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 3: a pleasant place to live, like a decent life. It's

564
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 3: very hard. It's very difficult.

565
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's in part because these kind of people

566
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 2: who came out of the Reagan era like have no

567
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 2: use for factory workers or farmers in the United States.

568
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 2: All of that can be consolidated into these vast enterprise

569
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 2: is that when there are human workers necessary, we can

570
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 2: just grab undocumented people from across the border. Right anyway,

571
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 2: speaking of grabbing people, these ads will grab you. Dah,

572
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 2: We're back. So by late twenty twenty one, Curtis Jarvin

573
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 2: is still a major figure in the neo reactionary movement.

574
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 2: VANCE has started quoting him kind of obliquely, and in fact,

575
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 2: during this twenty twenty one National Conservative Conference that Pogue

576
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 2: pivots on, Vance makes direct reference to something that Jarvin

577
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 2: has written his ideas about, like we need this red

578
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 2: Caesar when he says during an interview, we are in

579
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 2: a late Republican period. If we're going to push back

580
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 2: against it, we're going to have to get pretty wild

581
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 2: and pretty far out there and go in directions that

582
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 2: a lot of conservatives right now are uncomfortable with. And

583
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 2: you know what that means is this late Republican he's

584
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 2: talking about Republican Rome before Caesar, you know, makes his

585
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 2: play for power, like that's explicitly what he is comparing

586
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 2: it to. And it's because Yarvin's big thing is we

587
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 2: don't want a left or a right wing dictator. We

588
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 2: want a king for the whole country right that's going

589
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 2: to represent everybody, which is just not what kings do.

590
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 2: It's not what dictators do.

591
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 3: This is so clearly there's also just like a fascist

592
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 3: line of argument, like an actual like actual like ideologically fascist,

593
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 3: and no people call like, you know, Reagan a fascist,

594
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 3: but like he's not, He's a neoliberal. Neoliberals suck. Yes,

595
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 3: these guys are going back like actual like fascist political theory.

596
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 3: That's what Mullbug is reading, that's what he's writing about.

597
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 2: And in twenty twenty one, Vance is saying this, I

598
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 2: think Trump is going to run again in twenty twenty four.

599
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 2: I think that what Trump should do, if I was

600
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 2: giving him one piece of advice, fire every single mid

601
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 2: level bureaucrat, every civil servant in the administrative state. Replace

602
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 2: them with our people. And when the courts stop, you

603
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 2: stand before the country and say the Chief Justice has

604
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 2: made his ruling, now let him enforce it, which he's

605
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 2: quoting Andrew Jackson there, but he's describing like the end

606
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 2: of democracy.

607
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 3: A dictatorial takeover, right, and laying out with a plan

608
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 3: that is very similar to Project twenty twenty five. Yeah,

609
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 3: I know Vance does have something personal connections to because

610
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 3: a lot of his friends were involved in the planning

611
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 3: of that.

612
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 2: But you can see Project twenty twenty five and what

613
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 2: Vance is saying here, these are all downstream of what

614
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 2: Yarvin's saying in twenty twelve of this rage acronym, replace

615
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 2: all government employees, right or retire all government employees. You know,

616
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 2: by the way, you will be glad to know that

617
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 2: by twenty twenty one, Yarvin has stopped openly using the

618
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 2: term dictator. So that's good. He just he just calls

619
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 2: it a monarchy a lot.

620
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 3: Now, Oh okay, that's good. Yeah, that's good.

621
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 2: Now. JD's pivot, which he often credits with his conversion

622
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 2: to Catholicism, although you can see he's been on this

623
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 2: road for much longer than that, was perfectly timed for

624
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 2: his Senate run in twenty twenty two. Peter Teel was

625
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 2: his biggest donor, providing fifteen million to the super Pack

626
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 2: that backed him, which at the time at least was

627
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 2: the largest amount ever given to boost a Senate candidate.

628
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, as fifty million for a Senate run is crazy,

629
00:30:58,600 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 3: It's nuts.

630
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 2: D been a long shot candidate at first because he's

631
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 2: very unlikable, but the Teal money allowed for a major

632
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 2: ad blitz and the kind of media prep work that

633
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 2: only a well funded pack can provide. His pack published

634
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 2: the data on an open Medium page with a username

635
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 2: at protect Ohio values forms, which allowed the pack to

636
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 2: send info and advice to Vance without violating federal campaign

637
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 2: finance loss. Vance had been hit early for comments made

638
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 2: a few years back negative to Trump, but he clawed

639
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 2: his way back into the MAGA good graces by appearing

640
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 2: on Breitbart News, Tucker Carlson's Fox Show, Steve Bannon's War

641
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 2: Room podcast, and most of all, by positioning to himself

642
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 2: as a violent opponent of immigration from a write up

643
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 2: in Politico. In February, Thompson, who's the guy running the pack,

644
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 2: posted a memo to the Medium site arguing that Vance

645
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 2: had an opening to zero win on immigration and border security,

646
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 2: noting that he had a personal connection to the issue

647
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 2: given his mother's struggles with drug addiction. The issue was

648
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 2: near and dear to the primary voters, the memo argued,

649
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 2: and crucially could help in nabbing Trump's support. To win

650
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 2: a Trump endorsement, a candidate has to show a growing

651
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 2: ballot share to get that account, and it has to

652
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,479
Speaker 2: own a critical issue, the memo read. JD can do that,

653
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 2: and that's exactly what JD does. When he takes the

654
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 2: stage at the Conservative Political Action Conference in Florida later

655
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 2: that month, he focuses his speech entirely on immigration, and

656
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 2: when his campaign goes up with its first TV ad,

657
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 2: it shows a direct to camera Vance telling viewers that

658
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 2: he nearly lost his mother to poison coming across our border.

659
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 2: Now by mid April, Trump has become convinced that Vance's

660
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 2: past mean remarks were water under the bridge, and he

661
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 2: calls an associate of Peter Teal to say, Hey, I'm

662
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 2: moving closer to endorsing Vance. Teal by this point has

663
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 2: also introduced Vance to David Sachs, who adds another million

664
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 2: dollars to his super PACs war chest. On April fifteenth,

665
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 2: Convinced by Vance's rising poll numbers and impressive fundraising, Trump

666
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 2: makes an official endorsement this helps pull Vance over the top,

667
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 2: and he ekes out a narrow win in the election

668
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 2: that followed. The next year, Vance repaid the favor, writing

669
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 2: a January Wall Street Journal op at where he endorses

670
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 2: Trump as a candidate. In twenty twenty four, this was

671
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 2: back and this is the start of tour three. The

672
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 2: Republican primary is just gearing up, and the end of

673
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 2: it is in enough doubt. You can remember back then.

674
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 2: It sounds silly now, but people really thought Desant has

675
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 2: had a shot, right, And so is Vance's kind of

676
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 2: in before any of the other major Republican figures and

677
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 2: backing Trump for his reducts round right.

678
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, He's like one of the first to fall in

679
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 3: line here.

680
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. And there's a few people like Sarah Huckabee Sanders

681
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 2: had been seen as a potential Trump VP pick, but

682
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 2: she waits months to actually like endorse Trump officially. So

683
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 2: Vance gets in on the ground floor, and this impresses

684
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 2: Trump that he is someone who he can count on

685
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 2: to be loyal. Vance wins more praise the next month,

686
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 2: when a train carrying hazardous materials to rails in East

687
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 2: Palestine in Ohio, Trump makes a visit to the town

688
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 2: as one of the first stops on his campaign, and

689
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 2: Vance organizes the visit, and he does apparently a good

690
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 2: job of this. Trump says to his entourage, this guy

691
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 2: is turning out to be fucking incredible.

692
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 3: Now.

693
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 2: By this point, Vance has befriended Trump's oldest son, Donald

694
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 2: Trump Junior, and set himself to the task of well

695
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 2: and truly kissing ass to get on that twenty twenty

696
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 2: four ticket. By late January of this year, Vance and

697
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 2: his team had received enough friendly feedback from Trump World

698
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 2: that they decided to invest in a full court press.

699
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 2: Vance began showing up on TV networks that Trump considered enemies,

700
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 2: doing a reverse Buddhage edge and throwing himself into the

701
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 2: enemy camp to take shots on behalf of the boss.

702
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 2: He also devoted himself to raising money for Trump from

703
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 2: the Silicon Valley VC set. Most of these guys were teals, friends,

704
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 2: dudes like David Sachs. What finally put him over the top, though,

705
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,879
Speaker 2: was an article Donald Trump Junior gave his dad from

706
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 2: bright Bart News about the man then seen as Trump's

707
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,760
Speaker 2: most likely VP pick, Doug Bergham, governor of North Dakota.

708
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 2: The article's title was Carl Rove endorses Doug Burgham for

709
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 2: Vice president, and I do love that. Carl Rove's endorsement

710
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 2: is the fucking kiss of death right now for a

711
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 2: fucking VP candidate. Very funny place for his story to

712
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 2: have wound up. Not a bad call by Trump, though,

713
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 2: I gotta say, actually it is a bad call for Trump.

714
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 2: But also I get it. I read one Politico article

715
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 2: that argues this was the final straw for Trump. It

716
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 2: was this Carl Rove article. I can't actually speak to that.

717
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 2: It is worth noting that in the months leading up

718
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 2: to the RNC, Trump is also being subjected to a

719
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 2: charm campaign by all of Peter Teal's friends, this huge

720
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,760
Speaker 2: pile of wealthy Silicon Valley investors from the Washington Post quote.

721
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 2: In the weeks before former President Donald Trump announced his

722
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 2: vice presidential pick, some of tech's biggest names launched a

723
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 2: quiet campaign to push for one of their own. Ohio

724
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 2: Senator JD. Vance. The former president, fielded repeated calls from

725
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 2: tech entrepreneur David Sachs, pallanteer advisor Jacob Helberg, and billionaire

726
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 2: venture capitalist Peter Teal, Vance's former employer and mentor employing

727
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 2: him to add the one time Silicon Valley investor to

728
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 2: the ticket. According to three people familiar with the entreaties,

729
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 2: all caps, we have a former tech VC in the

730
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 2: White House. Greatest country on Earth, Baby Deli and Ashparov,

731
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 2: of a partner at Teal's founder's fund, wrote on X

732
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 2: after the announcement of Vance's nomination, Dellian s Parova s

733
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 2: Parov something.

734
00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 3: Like that, Jesus Christ.

735
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 2: I know it's it's fucking exhausting, but that is, you know,

736
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 2: the JD. Vance story more or less, that's where he

737
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:08,919
Speaker 2: comes from. That's who wants him to be the VP.

738
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 2: It's all of these fucking ghouls who want to own

739
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 2: the world and become It's these people who have achieved

740
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 2: the highest level of financial success you can achieve in

741
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 2: any society on the earth right now, and they found

742
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,280
Speaker 2: that it's kind of empty. And it's kind of empty

743
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 2: in part because people can still be mean to you

744
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 2: and they don't have to care what you believe just

745
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:31,280
Speaker 2: because you have a lot of money.

746
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 3: They don't like neoliberal capitalism because it fundamentally still has

747
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 3: a shred of like a democratic value. Yeah, and that

748
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 3: makes them too mad. Yeah, So instead they are going

749
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 3: back to like a much a much more like archaic

750
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 3: system where they can still maintain their personal wealth while

751
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,879
Speaker 3: being like very influential through like a dictatorial means. They're

752
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 3: still like fundamentally capitalists, but almost in like a more

753
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 3: like fascistic feudal sense. Yes, like they want to be lord. Well,

754
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,439
Speaker 3: that's exactly its what that's what they really want.

755
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 2: They are terrified of death. And what they're terrified of

756
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 2: more than anything. What scares the mostly about death is

757
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,800
Speaker 2: the idea that like all the success they've seen goes.

758
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 3: Away, it's meaningless, it doesn't matter.

759
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 2: Fundamentally, all of this passes. No one is on top forever,

760
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 2: nobody is like matters.

761
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 3: No one's going to care about PayPal in twenty years.

762
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 2: That's the price of time, right, And they want to

763
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 2: stop the clock. That's fundamentally what near reactionaries are. There

764
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 2: are people who think I am special, I am super special.

765
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 2: The world should be oriented around recognizing how special I

766
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 2: am forever, and anything I can do to turn back

767
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 2: the clock is necessary justified like that, That's what these

768
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 2: people are, That's what they believe fundamentally.

769
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 3: Like imagine being so mad that no one will remember

770
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 3: PayPal in two hundred years, that you try to install

771
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 3: a fascist takeover.

772
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, of the United States of America, so that

773
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 2: PayPal always matters. It's the guys anyway, Garrison. That's the

774
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 2: James Donald Vance story. Not his name.

775
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 3: Is that his name?

776
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 2: No, of course not. Maybe I forget. I forget. I

777
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 2: always forget what JD stands for, who cares? Who gives

778
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 2: a shit? Hopefully he's not gonna matter much longer.

779
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 3: This is this is This is my biggest thing going

780
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 3: going into November, is that you know, if the Democrats

781
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,919
Speaker 3: win on on like on their ticket, that still means

782
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 3: plenty of bad things around the world. Yeah, but I

783
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 3: also really don't want these freaks in there, Like I

784
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 3: really don't want them. They're they're like they're like spooky.

785
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 3: They're trying to do like this like like esoteric larp

786
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:37,399
Speaker 3: in like the White House, like come on.

787
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 2: And most of the things that need to happen for

788
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,760
Speaker 2: the world to get better can't happen while these people

789
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 2: are in power right like or close to power like

790
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 2: they There needs to be damage done to them, and

791
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 2: I'm I'm hopeful about that if nothing else in this election, and.

792
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 3: Like electoral damages is only like one type. They have

793
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 3: to be like culturally humiliated, Like they have to be

794
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 3: like culturally like rejected, being like no, like you you

795
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 3: you are not actually the wizards of culture that you

796
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,399
Speaker 3: kind of wanted to be, Like, no one likes what

797
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 3: you do, no one likes what you believe like that

798
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 3: that it has to be like this this larger this

799
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 3: larger like cultural battle. That's why they have like the

800
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 3: culture wars. This is like super important thing. That's why

801
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,760
Speaker 3: they're so scared of like queer and trans people, especially

802
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 3: the queer and trans people like that are like influential,

803
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 3: whether they be like you know, like teachers, whether they

804
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 3: be working like in media, making movies, television, writing books.

805
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:26,479
Speaker 3: That's why they're so freaked out with that kind of stuff.

806
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 3: That's why they're trying to get out of schools. That's

807
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 3: why they're trying to stop Woke Disney. It's because they

808
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 3: know that no one's gonna want to listen to these

809
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 3: freaks when like gay people can make a good art

810
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 3: or like give a good history lesson. Yeah, that's like

811
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 3: there's that's like the strongest like anecdote to these like

812
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 3: just really really bizarre like esoteric ramblings about wanting to

813
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 3: go back to like nineteen ten, like racist science and

814
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 3: just weird, weird shit.

815
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think that these guys delved too

816
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 2: deep and too greedily if we're going to continue the

817
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,399
Speaker 2: Lord of the Rings rap diferences, which by god, they're

818
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 2: not going to let us stop doing so. And I

819
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 2: think that there was this thing we used to I

820
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 2: used to talk about a lot when I tried to

821
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 2: explain like far right terminology to people back in twenty nineteen,

822
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, five decades ago, a thousand years ago. That's

823
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 2: my Elron moment. I was there Garrison a thousand years ago.

824
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 2: We talked about like the term hide your power level, right,

825
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 2: which these Nazis used to use, and they've just completely

826
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 2: given up on that. No, and the thing that they

827
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 2: are seeing there was like all this. I was reading

828
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:32,879
Speaker 2: that twenty twenty two article by Poe, which I think

829
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 2: is a really important snapshot because it's these people about

830
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 2: to head into twenty twenty four, and they they know

831
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 2: before the dims do how badly down Biden is. Right,

832
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,280
Speaker 2: the Democrats have not really taking seriously what a dangerous

833
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 2: position Joe Biden was going to be in for reelection yet.

834
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 2: But they also think that like, wow, all these young

835
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 2: people are showing up at our lame parties. That means

836
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 2: there's a broader sweep. All young people are becoming like

837
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 2: closer to reactionaryas.

838
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:00,879
Speaker 3: Becoming like all weird treadcats.

839
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're capturing the culture. And that's just absolutely not

840
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 2: what was happening. And it would have been obvious if

841
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 2: like they had been capable of actually like listening to people.

842
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 2: But what we're seeing now is they did the most

843
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 2: dangerous thing you could do. Is they predicted and understood

844
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,839
Speaker 2: one thing about the future, but nothing else right. And

845
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 2: so they understood the weakness that Joe Biden represented and

846
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 2: kind of the weakness of his control over the Democratic Party,

847
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,879
Speaker 2: but they did not understand that, like other things are possible, right,

848
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 2: and including the fact that like Joe Biden and largely

849
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 2: the other people who were running the Democratic Party might

850
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 2: come to understand that weakness too. And after a disastrous

851
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 2: debate and a shooting, go you know what, let's change course.

852
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 2: And I really think that that, above all else might

853
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 2: be What fucks them is they they completely came out

854
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 2: of the woodwork. They were tired of having to pretend

855
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 2: they didn't want a king. They thought their time had come,

856
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 2: and perhaps it has not. We'll still, we'll all see,

857
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 2: we'll all see.

858
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 3: Well, I'm super excited to hear what kind of just

859
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 3: unhinged and bizarre things Tim Walls has done. Yeah, in

860
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 3: the next tale.

861
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just going to accuse him of having been

862
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 2: the Zodiac killer. You know, that's worked on a couple

863
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 2: of guys.

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00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 3: It seems to work.

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00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, so we're just going to do that. Call

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00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 2: it a night. Anyway, this has been jd vance. We've

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00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,879
Speaker 2: been It could happen here, Go to hell, I.

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00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 3: Love you, Clean your couch.

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00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 2: Clean your couch. Shit, I need to do that.

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00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 1: It could happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.

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00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

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00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

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00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could Happen here, updated

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00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.