Speaker 1: Hey, folks, it is Tuesday, November the eleventh, and as
Speaker 1: of this recording, we are forty eight hours away, less
Speaker 1: than forty eight hours away from the execution of inmate
Speaker 1: Tremaine Wood in Oklahoma. His family, in particular his mother
Speaker 1: and his two young nieces, hugged him for the last
Speaker 1: time months ago. They just had no idea that was
Speaker 1: possibly going to be the last hug. Welcome everybody to
Speaker 1: this episode of Amy and TJ. In Robes, I'm speaking
Speaker 1: in particular about Linda Wood, Andreana Wood, and Brooklyn Wood,
Speaker 1: the mother and two nieces of Tremaine, who are right
Speaker 1: now Robes, holding out hope that Thursday.
Speaker 2: Won't be the end, and they aren't sleeping, they aren't eating,
Speaker 2: and they have experienced every emotion imaginable anticipating what could
Speaker 2: possibly happen. No one knows what the governor is going
Speaker 2: to decide, and he has until literally the eleventh hour,
Speaker 2: moments before the scheduled execution, to make a decision whether
Speaker 2: or not to grant Tremaine would clemency.
Speaker 1: So you can only imagine, folks, what it's like for
Speaker 1: that family right now. But we have covered this story.
Speaker 1: Robock and I have been following this story for weeks.
Speaker 1: We have a whole episode on the case itself. What
Speaker 1: we're talking about a man, Tremain Wood, who is forty
Speaker 1: six years old now, who was in his twenties when
Speaker 1: he was a part of a robbery that took place
Speaker 1: on New Year's Day back in two thousand and two,
Speaker 1: a robbery in which a man ended up dead, stabbed
Speaker 1: to death. Tremain Would and his brother were the two
Speaker 1: who took part in this robbery. There was a back
Speaker 1: and forth about who actually was the one who killed
Speaker 1: the man, but Tremaine Wood's brother also convicted in this crime.
Speaker 1: Robes he got life in prison. Tremaine ends up with
Speaker 1: here we are on death row. There's all kinds of
Speaker 1: questions and legal questions about the representation that Tremaine Would got,
Speaker 1: which by all accounts, I think everybody agrees he did
Speaker 1: not get adequate representation. This has led us now to
Speaker 1: a clemency hearing that we just heard matter of about
Speaker 1: a week ago, in which the clemency Board recommended yes,
Speaker 1: in a vote of three to two, his life should
Speaker 1: be spared. But that doesn't spare his life Robes. It
Speaker 1: means then now the governor and that catches everybody up,
Speaker 1: and that leads us to these three women, these three
Speaker 1: young ladies that we had a chance to talk to.
Speaker 1: We've talked to a lot of people over the years
Speaker 1: and covered a lot of cases. I actually count remember
Speaker 1: talking to someone this intimately who was this close to
Speaker 1: having their loved one killed.
Speaker 2: I have never had a conversation like we just had
Speaker 2: with these three women who are going through something that
Speaker 2: no mother and no family member would ever want to imagine.
Speaker 2: And yet to sit down with them and to have
Speaker 2: the time with them that we had with them, it
Speaker 2: is impossible to not feel for these women to not
Speaker 2: feel something for what is state sanctioned murder in this.
Speaker 1: So, folks, we want you to hear from them now.
Speaker 1: And look, Robot and I we covered this case. We
Speaker 1: pointed out we're not going through all the legalities in
Speaker 1: the back and forth and the nuances and the legalities
Speaker 1: of this case. This was a matter of talking to
Speaker 1: three women who are days away from losing someone who
Speaker 1: was possibly the most important person in their lives and
Speaker 1: one of the most influential. So here now we want
Speaker 1: you to listen to our conversation with Linda Wood, mother
Speaker 1: of Tremaine Wood and Andrea and Brooklyn would his.
Speaker 3: Nieces, and I imagine you all have in the past
Speaker 3: at least week, been non stop. In fact, you were
Speaker 3: just at an event for Trumont. Tell me how you're feeling,
Speaker 3: what you've been doing, and what life is like right now.
Speaker 4: Life for me right now is Tremaine's mother is stress
Speaker 4: level one thousand. It is. My heart is so heavy
Speaker 4: with the thought that my son could die in less
Speaker 4: than two days. So that's kind of how my life
Speaker 4: has been for these last few months. He has been
Speaker 4: treated so badly at the penitentiary that and you know,
Speaker 4: as a mother, the only thing you want to do
Speaker 4: when your child is hurting is make it better, and
Speaker 4: you can't. So it's been very stressful, very.
Speaker 5: Stressful, madam.
Speaker 6: You say stressful, How does one prepare for the death
Speaker 6: of their child.
Speaker 4: You don't. You don't prepare. I have tried to play
Speaker 4: that scenario over in my mind a million times in
Speaker 4: the last twenty one years, because we knew from the
Speaker 4: day he was sentenced to death that that was very
Speaker 4: real possibility. But my mind won't allow me to even
Speaker 4: fathom him not being here any longer. I always go
Speaker 4: back to the same thing. This cannot be the end
Speaker 4: of my son's story.
Speaker 2: You have been sitting with this, living with this for
Speaker 2: more than two decades. But as we're speaking to you,
Speaker 2: it is Tuesday afternoon, and in forty eight hours or so,
Speaker 2: give or take, your sun may be there on death row,
Speaker 2: his life about to end in these final forty eight hours.
Speaker 2: How do you exist? Do you sleep? Do you rest? No?
Speaker 4: No, I don't sleep.
Speaker 6: I am.
Speaker 7: Mentally, emotionally and physically drained. I'm drained. I'm so tired,
Speaker 7: but I can't sleep. It's hard for me to eat.
Speaker 7: It's just it's torturous. It's torturous.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I'll definitely agree with Grandma and that one. It's
Speaker 8: definitely it's hard to sleep. It's definitely hard. It's hard
Speaker 8: to eat that have an appetite when you're sitting there
Speaker 8: thinking that the person that you love the most and
Speaker 8: you care about the most is going to be gone
Speaker 8: in under forty eight hours.
Speaker 4: If this doesn't go the right way.
Speaker 5: Brooklyn, why do you.
Speaker 4: There is?
Speaker 6: You just mentioned him as the most important person and
Speaker 6: the closest person in your life.
Speaker 5: For folks who aren't aware of.
Speaker 6: That, you as a seventeen year oldly speaking on it,
Speaker 6: Why is he that much to you?
Speaker 8: My uncle has made an amazing impact in my life.
Speaker 8: He's helped me through multiple mental health crisis that I've
Speaker 8: had within myself, and just multiple I used to get
Speaker 8: bullied all the time in school and he's always helped
Speaker 8: me through that and taught me that my worth isn't
Speaker 8: measured by what other people say about me. It's measured
Speaker 8: by what I think about myself and what I see
Speaker 8: inside myself. And just because people put in bad and
Speaker 8: you have to put good out.
Speaker 4: In the world just to receive it back, just because.
Speaker 8: You're not getting it in that moment doesn't mean that
Speaker 8: you're never gonna get it.
Speaker 4: Brooklyn.
Speaker 2: You have only known your uncle at seventeen as a
Speaker 2: man behind bars, a convicted murderer on death row. And
Speaker 2: a lot of people would look at your uncle's story,
Speaker 2: his name and think they know and may think he's
Speaker 2: a monster, may think he's evil, may think all sorts
Speaker 2: of things. How would you describe the uncle you know?
Speaker 8: I would describe my uncle as a loving, caring person.
Speaker 8: He pretty much puts you before he will put himself.
Speaker 8: He'll give you what he has off his back like
Speaker 8: the last shirt he has off his back and give
Speaker 8: it to you because you needed it more than he
Speaker 8: needed it in that moment. He's such a giving person,
Speaker 8: and he'll put anybody before he puts himself, just to
Speaker 8: make sure they're okay, or they feel right, or they're
Speaker 8: mentally okay, they're doing good.
Speaker 4: Out in the world.
Speaker 8: He will always put somebody before him.
Speaker 5: Have you and Andreana the other?
Speaker 6: How old are you? Tell me twenty three? Right, yes,
Speaker 6: this is your uncle as well. Now tell me what
Speaker 6: year were you born?
Speaker 8: Two thousand and two?
Speaker 6: That was the year this crime took place, is it not?
Speaker 9: Yep, I was born a few months after.
Speaker 6: It's wild that that's the case. But how do you
Speaker 6: explain to people, Explain to us how you go about
Speaker 6: having a relationship, much less a loving and supportive one
Speaker 6: with an uncle that you have never gotten a chance
Speaker 6: to spend time with outside of a prison.
Speaker 9: I mean it was mostly just through telephone calls and visits.
Speaker 9: I mean I've been going to visit him since he'd
Speaker 9: been in like the actual county jail, before he before
Speaker 9: the trial, before everything. I was she was taking me
Speaker 9: as a baby to go visit, and so I've I
Speaker 9: always knew about him, and I always got I always
Speaker 9: got to talk to him growing up on calls and
Speaker 9: everything like that, visits, and he just he's never been
Speaker 9: a bad person in my eyes ever. And I mean
Speaker 9: even when I got old enough, I I knew, you know,
Speaker 9: of course I knew that he was in prison, but
Speaker 9: I didn't I didn't really know what for until I
Speaker 9: was in middle school. And that's when I really started
Speaker 9: doing research on the case and and I really saw
Speaker 9: how how badly everything was handled, and I was like,
Speaker 9: my uncle doesn't deserve to be here. But it's it's
Speaker 9: been very easy to have a good relationship with him.
Speaker 8: I love my uncle to who.
Speaker 5: Linda tell me? Why why was that important? She was
Speaker 5: a baby, she was edny bitty? Why was it important?
Speaker 5: Will be visiting Carl.
Speaker 4: I've had Andreana since she was one day old. I
Speaker 4: brought her home from the hospital and I raised her.
Speaker 4: It's it's funny you should ask that, you know, when
Speaker 4: before Andrewa was born and before this crime was committed.
Speaker 4: And I feel like I have a good personal relationship
Speaker 4: with God. But I felt like God talked to me
Speaker 4: and said, you know, there's a baby that will need you,
Speaker 4: and you will need this baby, and people were like, no,
Speaker 4: you're crazy. You know you didn't have all the kids
Speaker 4: you're having, And I said, I'm telling you. God told
Speaker 4: me that. And when she was born, well while her
Speaker 4: mom was still pregnant, she decided she didn't want her.
Speaker 4: She was going to give her to my son, and
Speaker 4: my son gave her to me, and Andreana became the
Speaker 4: reason for me being able to make it through the
Speaker 4: trial and the whole horror of them being accused of
Speaker 4: a murder. This is before they were convicted.
Speaker 2: And.
Speaker 4: So when they were in the county jail, I would
Speaker 4: go twice a week. I would because they wouldn't let
Speaker 4: me see Jake and Tremaine on the same day. I
Speaker 4: would take Andreana. She grew up the first three or
Speaker 4: four years of her life going twice a week to
Speaker 4: the Oklahoma County jail. And I thought it was important
Speaker 4: because she needed to know them, and they needed to
Speaker 4: know her. This was their niece, and almost everybody, given
Speaker 4: the severity of the crime at hand, had cut Jake
Speaker 4: off from seeing his kids. Tremaine wasn't allowed to see
Speaker 4: his kids, and they needed, they needed some hope. I
Speaker 4: just felt like Andreana was was hope, you know, it
Speaker 4: was just hope that that we would make it through this.
Speaker 4: And but by the grace of God, we have this bar.
Speaker 4: But I thought it was important because every kid has
Speaker 4: a right to know who their family is.
Speaker 2: Linda, you mentioned Jake, your other son. You are mom
Speaker 2: to three sons, but I cannot imagine as a mother.
Speaker 2: Tremaine and Jake both tried and convicted of murder, and
Speaker 2: there was a headline I read that said one brother
Speaker 2: confessed to murder and got life without parole. Tremaine would
Speaker 2: got death.
Speaker 4: Yes, I don't even know.
Speaker 2: If you can put into words what that is like
Speaker 2: to live with, what that was like to experience.
Speaker 4: I tell you, you know, And when you make choices in
Speaker 4: your life, you know, your choice is your consequences, whether
Speaker 4: consequences are good or bad. But when your life is
Speaker 4: forever changed and you don't get a choice, it makes
Speaker 4: it hard, It makes it difficult, and it's very hurtful.
Speaker 4: My son Andre and I didn't get a choice in this.
Speaker 4: You know, nobody said, hey, are you okay if we
Speaker 4: go out and somebody gets murdered tonight and we go
Speaker 4: to jail, are you okay? If we get the death penalty,
Speaker 4: or are you okay if I commit suicide or you okay
Speaker 4: if the state executes me. We didn't get a choice
Speaker 4: in any of that, and so those choices were made
Speaker 4: for us. And it's been really, really difficult when you
Speaker 4: lose not one son, but two sons to the system,
Speaker 4: and then the system is so bad, especially for people
Speaker 4: who have mental health issues like Jake had serious, serious
Speaker 4: mental health issues, and it just got to the point.
Speaker 4: He was one of the strongest individuals. I thought that
Speaker 4: I ever knew, you know, he could do time standing
Speaker 4: on his head. But when I got the call in
Speaker 4: the middle of the night that he had committed suicide,
Speaker 4: it was devastating to lose one child, and now at
Speaker 4: the thought that within forty eight hours I could lose
Speaker 4: a second child. You know, one third of my heart
Speaker 4: is already gone. If Tremaine dies, that's two thirds, and
Speaker 4: it's hard to live with one third of a heart.
Speaker 4: That's kind of.
Speaker 6: Maybe all of you right now, what your last I
Speaker 6: guess most recent interaction with Tremaine was what more interaction
Speaker 6: you expect to have between now in the next forty
Speaker 6: eight hours and all of you all's kind of assessment
Speaker 6: how do you all think he's doing.
Speaker 4: My biggest fear has always been that if they executed Tremaine, he.
Speaker 7: Would be there scared and alone. Now Tremaine tells me
Speaker 7: he's not scared to die. I don't know if I
Speaker 7: believe that.
Speaker 4: I don't know that he's scared to die, but I
Speaker 4: feel like he's scared of the fallout afterwards for the
Speaker 4: rest of us that are left here without him. Our
Speaker 4: last interaction before we saw him on camera or on
Speaker 4: the TV screen at the clinic's hearing, we had went
Speaker 4: the weekend before that and saw and visited him. They
Speaker 4: gave us one hour, and well, I think we at
Speaker 4: an hour and thirty. Actually, no, we only stayed an
Speaker 4: hour because we had to go oh yeah to the rally.
Speaker 4: But you know, we never talked about him dying over
Speaker 4: this whole twenty one years. He just didn't. We didn't
Speaker 4: talk about me dying, We didn't talk about him dying,
Speaker 4: And we probably should have had those hard conversations a
Speaker 4: long time before we had him. And we only had
Speaker 4: him when his number finally came up and we were
Speaker 4: forced to have to have him because as the person
Speaker 4: responsible as his next of ken. You know, I have
Speaker 4: to know what do you want me to do? What
Speaker 4: are your final wishes? Just tell me so I can
Speaker 4: do it. And it's real difficult. And we all get
Speaker 4: to go see him tomorrow as a family for what
Speaker 4: if they execute him, will be the final visit that
Speaker 4: we have. And I don't know how I feel about that.
Speaker 4: I know that I can't ever tell him goodbye. I
Speaker 4: cannot leave that visit and tell him goodbye in case
Speaker 4: he dies. I just can't.
Speaker 2: Brooklyn, do you know what you're going to say to
Speaker 2: your uncle? What you're not going to say.
Speaker 4: To your uncle?
Speaker 8: I don't really know, because it's crazy to think that
Speaker 8: it's his last visit before you could potentially be executed.
Speaker 4: Like what what do you say?
Speaker 8: Like like they're like, I don't even know what I
Speaker 8: would say, actually, But one thing I do know I
Speaker 8: don't want to say is by to my uncle.
Speaker 4: I do want to sit there and have to tell
Speaker 4: my uncle.
Speaker 8: By and think that's the last memory I'm ever going
Speaker 8: to have of him, seeing him just sitting there.
Speaker 6: Andreana, what about you? And also how long Andreana do
Speaker 6: you all know you all are going to get? And
Speaker 6: how big of a.
Speaker 5: Group are.
Speaker 7: People?
Speaker 4: And two people get too out hours. Then we switch
Speaker 4: out with the next two and then the next two,
Speaker 4: so everybody's gotten to see him for two hours.
Speaker 6: And Andreana, what about you? How do you also same questions?
Speaker 6: How do you think your uncle is doing right now?
Speaker 9: I mean he yeah, I will say. Throughout all of
Speaker 9: this recently, you know, you can this has like aged
Speaker 9: him a lot, you know, and he still he still
Speaker 9: stays positive, you know. He whenever we get to whenever
Speaker 9: he gets to call us for the little fifteen minute
Speaker 9: call we get, he he always tells us to keep
Speaker 9: our head up and keep the faith and keep fighting
Speaker 9: because it's not over till it's over. But I mean,
Speaker 9: it's hard to think that this is this might be
Speaker 9: the last visit we get. I mean, I I didn't
Speaker 9: get to hug my uncle until I was twenty I'm
Speaker 9: twenty three now, and when when was our last June?
Speaker 4: Was our last contact visit?
Speaker 5: Wow?
Speaker 9: And I hate that that was the last hug that
Speaker 9: I got to give my uncle because now we just
Speaker 9: get to see him through the glass like it started
Speaker 9: out with.
Speaker 4: I think it's the last one. We'd probably hug him
Speaker 4: a little bit tighter and held him a little bit longer.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Okay, wait, I'm gonna make sure I got that right.
Speaker 6: So when you all do this, this plan planned visit
Speaker 6: is going.
Speaker 9: To be through yeah, through.
Speaker 4: Yeah, a piece of it will be a contact visit.
Speaker 9: Yeah, we won't get to And I'm.
Speaker 6: Making sure I'll understood you right there, Linda, Is that
Speaker 6: the last time you had a contact visit you didn't
Speaker 6: know the execution was coming up?
Speaker 4: Now, we knew the exit. We didn't have a date
Speaker 4: at that time, but we didn't know that all of
Speaker 4: this stuff that's been going on. We didn't know they
Speaker 4: were going to snatch him up and throw him back
Speaker 4: in H dungeon on H unit and isolate him and
Speaker 4: take everything from him. No, we didn't know that. Had
Speaker 4: we known, we probably, like I said, would have hugged
Speaker 4: him a little longer, held him a little tighter.
Speaker 5: Forgive me.
Speaker 6: I didn't know this, but you will have given and
Speaker 6: you didn't know it. You possibly have given your loved
Speaker 6: one his last hug.
Speaker 5: You just didn't know it was going to be the
Speaker 5: last stuff. I'm sorry I did not realize.
Speaker 9: I didn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't know that there was a specific amount
Speaker 2: of contact visits you could or couldn't have how does
Speaker 2: that work? How often have you able to hold or
Speaker 2: touch your son, Linda, over the years.
Speaker 4: You know he was in he was on h unit
Speaker 4: behind glass, and we didn't get to have contact visits
Speaker 4: for sixteen of the twenty one years. And then when
Speaker 4: the ACLU got involved and said these living conditions are
Speaker 4: not it, and so then the prison I guess, to
Speaker 4: avoid any problems with the ACLU, decided to move death
Speaker 4: row inmates to a unit and decided to let him
Speaker 4: have contact visits. So for more years than not, I
Speaker 4: didn't get to hug my son. And then the first
Speaker 4: time it was amazing. It had been the first time
Speaker 4: in probably eighteen years, because he spent two years in
Speaker 4: the county jail where we couldn't have contact visits either.
Speaker 4: The first time in eighteen years that I had got
Speaker 4: to hug my son and it was I can't even
Speaker 4: describe how it felt. I cried. And now to know
Speaker 4: that he could possibly die, you know, death is forever
Speaker 4: and we not get to hug him. That the next
Speaker 4: time I may get to hug my sons in a
Speaker 4: body bag is very very heart wrenching to me.
Speaker 2: Linda, do you all have plans if this does go
Speaker 2: through to be there when he is executed.
Speaker 4: Now, I we will be here as a family. Tremaine
Speaker 4: had to decide he wanted to be there. First of all,
Speaker 4: he didn't want any of us to be there. I
Speaker 4: told Tremaine it was his choice because he asked me
Speaker 4: about a couple of people that he was going to
Speaker 4: put on the list. When it's thirty five days before
Speaker 4: the execution, they fill out what's called an execution packet,
Speaker 4: and they have that on his birthday. Yeah, thirty five
Speaker 4: days was on his birthday. And you know, he had
Speaker 4: to put down the people who the people who would
Speaker 4: witness his execution. You know, who he wants to be
Speaker 4: in charge of where his body goes. He has to
Speaker 4: put down what he wants for his last meal, and
Speaker 4: who'll pick up his property, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 8: Well, on his birthday, on his birthday, yeah.
Speaker 2: And so who will be there in the room.
Speaker 4: Well, the only person that'll be in the actual execution
Speaker 4: chamber with him should he be executed, would be his
Speaker 4: spiritual advisor and whoever's administering the drugs. The other people
Speaker 4: sit outside. There's a glass window that's open and people
Speaker 4: sit there and witness it. I think the state gets
Speaker 4: so many witnesses and Tremaine is allowed I think five witnesses.
Speaker 4: I'm not sure five or six or something like that.
Speaker 4: I told him that I would respect whoever he wanted
Speaker 4: there or just know it couldn't be me. I don't
Speaker 4: know that I can even be conscious when ten o'clock
Speaker 4: Thursday comes.
Speaker 6: Did he specifically ask, though, that you that certain people
Speaker 6: not be there.
Speaker 4: Yes, he didn't want any of us to be, especially me,
Speaker 4: you know he Tremaine is worried, as are all of
Speaker 4: us that you know, if you've never lost a child,
Speaker 4: it is the most heart wrenching thing and you never
Speaker 4: recover from it. You learn how to deal with it,
Speaker 4: but you never recover. When my son Jake died, that
Speaker 4: was just something spontaneous. It's not something that was planned
Speaker 4: out like this. This has been the most tortuous thing,
Speaker 4: counting days till you know your son could die. It's
Speaker 4: just mentally torturous for all of us, so I can
Speaker 4: only imagine what it is for him.
Speaker 6: But it was in a good day in the midst
Speaker 6: of all the torture to hear the clemency board at
Speaker 6: least recommend clemency for him was that a good day.
Speaker 4: It was a wonderful day. It was a miracle that
Speaker 4: my son was far overdue for twenty one years. They
Speaker 4: gave a break before they decided to vote, and we
Speaker 4: all went outside. I could not go back in because
Speaker 4: I could not stand to hear one more shred of
Speaker 4: bad news for my son. So all of the rest
Speaker 4: of my family went back in there, and I said,
Speaker 4: I'm going to stay out here because I can't if
Speaker 4: they deny him clemency, they'll have taken me out here
Speaker 4: on a stretcher.
Speaker 9: And after I at least after I heard that third yes,
Speaker 9: and the room kind of, you know us at least
Speaker 9: we kind of just gasped, and some people started clapping,
Speaker 9: and they told us to quiet down. And then me
Speaker 9: and my uncle Tremaine's girlfriend jumped up and sprinted out
Speaker 9: of the out of the building and I straight ran
Speaker 9: straight to her car. Said they said yes, And then
Speaker 9: I broke down in the parking lot like it was.
Speaker 4: I broke down. It was a great day.
Speaker 7: It was.
Speaker 4: It was the what we had been waiting for, that
Speaker 4: the person they had painted him to be through the
Speaker 4: Attorney General's office. It uh, they finally saw through all
Speaker 4: that and and saw that this guy got a raw deal.
Speaker 4: You know, he didn't he wasn't adequately represented, none of that.
Speaker 4: So yeah, it was a good your reaction.
Speaker 2: So you have Andreana running out telling you, they said, yes,
Speaker 2: can you tell me what you did, what you thought,
Speaker 2: what you felt. I mean, I can't imagine the rush
Speaker 2: of emotions.
Speaker 4: I felt like for the first time in twenty one years,
Speaker 4: I could breathe, if just for that moment, And it
Speaker 4: was just for that moment, because it you know, there
Speaker 4: was a lot of work to be done after that
Speaker 4: to convince the governor to stay his execution to community sentence.
Speaker 6: Well in the husit, How has it gone on that front?
Speaker 6: What do you think your chances are now that the
Speaker 6: governor will decide in your favor.
Speaker 4: I can say that I hope that. You know, this
Speaker 4: is his last year as governor, and all I can
Speaker 4: say is that I hope that as a last act
Speaker 4: of human compassion for a man who didn't kill anyone,
Speaker 4: for a man who sat in that clemency hearing and
Speaker 4: admitted I'm a broken person. I've made mistakes. I'm broken.
Speaker 4: You know, if I could give this mother her child back,
Speaker 4: I would, If I could have been strong enough to
Speaker 4: stop my brother that night, I would, but I can't
Speaker 4: go back it. I just I just pray that as
Speaker 4: the last act of human compassion for someone that he
Speaker 4: will he will do the right thing and stand up
Speaker 4: and grant my son clemency.
Speaker 7: And Linda.
Speaker 2: Much has been made about this law in the state
Speaker 2: of Oklahoma that if you're a part of an act,
Speaker 2: a criminal act that results in the death of someone,
Speaker 2: you are just as culpable as the person who either
Speaker 2: pulled the trigger or actually wielded that weapon that ended
Speaker 2: that person's life. Feelings about that law, Well.
Speaker 4: First of all, I think it's the stupidest law that
Speaker 4: was ever written in the history of the world. I mean,
Speaker 4: if there are ten of us sitting here and we've
Speaker 4: all got a gun and we all start shooting, only
Speaker 4: one of ours bullets can kill somebody. So are we
Speaker 4: all culpable by being at the scene. Probably? Yes. But
Speaker 4: if I didn't kill this person, then I don't deserve
Speaker 4: to die.
Speaker 2: Do you think your son deserves to be behind bars
Speaker 2: for the rest of his life.
Speaker 4: No. I think my son he was the least culpable
Speaker 4: of everybody that anticipated in this crime, and I don't
Speaker 4: just say that because he was my son, because Jake,
Speaker 4: who did the actual killing, was my son too. I
Speaker 4: think Tremaine was with the wrong people, in the wrong place,
Speaker 4: at the wrong time. And I know he has shown
Speaker 4: great remorse, great sadness, and has just about lost his
Speaker 4: mind over it at certain times in the last twenty
Speaker 4: one years. You know, I have always said that my
Speaker 4: heart goes as a mother, and my heart goes out
Speaker 4: to Ronnie With's mother, because I know that pain of
Speaker 4: losing a child, whether you lose him to murder or
Speaker 4: suicide or car wreck or whatever it is, it doesn't
Speaker 4: make it any easier. And I just feel like he
Speaker 4: is so remorseful, And you know, I'm also hopeful that
Speaker 4: the governor will take into consideration that the victim's family
Speaker 4: and the living victim they do not want to remain executed.
Speaker 2: Have you been able to speak to the with family
Speaker 2: at all over these decades a few decades.
Speaker 4: I haven't, and I you know we have. We have
Speaker 4: tread real lightly as a family because there was so
Speaker 4: many improprieties in Tremayne's case, you know, ineffective counsel and
Speaker 4: prosecutorial misconduct, just a lot of things. So we've had
Speaker 4: to tread lightly on what we could say and what
Speaker 4: we could do, who we could speak to, because we
Speaker 4: didn't want to take the chance of messing up any
Speaker 4: chance that he had for any type of relief. It
Speaker 4: hasn't been only in the last probably months that we
Speaker 4: have really as a family gotten to speak out about
Speaker 4: all of this, because he had so many things still
Speaker 4: pending in different courts and things like that. I don't know,
Speaker 4: i'd I don't even know what words I could say
Speaker 4: to Barbara Withff to even to make it easier, because
Speaker 4: I know when my son died, there was nothing anyone
Speaker 4: could say that made it less painful. This situation with Tremaine.
Speaker 4: People tell me all the time, you know, I am
Speaker 4: so sorry. I feel bad for you, you know, But
Speaker 4: those words, and I know people truly mean it, but
Speaker 4: it doesn't make it any easier. So I don't think
Speaker 4: there's anything I could say to her. But if there
Speaker 4: was anything, is that my heart has always gone out
Speaker 4: to her and I am so sorry for the loss
Speaker 4: of her son.
Speaker 6: An opportunity to speak to the governor or anybody from
Speaker 6: his office.
Speaker 4: No, not us as a family, Tremaine's attorneys have. We
Speaker 4: haven't gotten to speak to the governor. I wish I
Speaker 4: could speak to the governor because what I would say is,
Speaker 4: if this was your son or your father, your brother,
Speaker 4: your uncle, would you want someone to show them mercy
Speaker 4: and grace or would you be so quick to execute them?
Speaker 9: So?
Speaker 2: Yeah, what have What have Tremaine's lawyers told you? Have
Speaker 2: they given you any reason to feel hope? Have they
Speaker 2: cautioned you not to get your hopes up?
Speaker 4: I haven't really talked to Amanda since they saw the
Speaker 4: governor yesterday. I know she's very busy filing stuff and
Speaker 4: doing this and doing that, and and you know, on
Speaker 4: Tremaine's behalf and it's a really busy time for all
Speaker 4: of us. So I haven't really spoken to her. I
Speaker 4: don't know. Have y'all spoken to you? Heard from uncle yesterday?
Speaker 8: He called us last night and he said that they
Speaker 8: had called him and told him that the meeting was
Speaker 8: that went really well.
Speaker 6: That sounded good, right, If the meeting went well, is
Speaker 6: that a good thing?
Speaker 5: Right? That sounds good.
Speaker 9: It's but we.
Speaker 5: Don't know what that means exactly.
Speaker 2: It went well, Yeah, you don't know what that Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's pretty remarkable even hearing you say that. I can
Speaker 2: we can still we're looking at your faces and we
Speaker 2: can still see your reservations. You're unwilling, excited.
Speaker 6: I only had two more things here. I'll start with actually,
Speaker 6: because what's going on. When we first started this interview,
Speaker 6: I'm not sure what happened, but there was something between
Speaker 6: all of us and you, all three of you all
Speaker 6: laughed about something, and I was like, wow, I didn't
Speaker 6: expect laughter this entire interview. My question is, have you
Speaker 6: found a little moments to be happy or to crack
Speaker 6: a joke?
Speaker 8: I feel like and not like with anything like going
Speaker 8: on with the case. I don't feel like we cracked
Speaker 8: jokes with anything with that, but you do try to
Speaker 8: find like little things.
Speaker 4: Like in the day that do kind of try to.
Speaker 4: We do joke with uncle Yeah a lot. Yeah, with
Speaker 4: our uncle Al, and they try to.
Speaker 8: Joke with our dad as much as possible, just to
Speaker 8: try to keep him in good spirits because he does
Speaker 8: hide his most. We even joke with Mama, so we
Speaker 8: try to. We me and Arona do try to keep
Speaker 8: the mood very light when it comes just Momma, don't make.
Speaker 4: Linda.
Speaker 2: I want to ask you your son was twenty two
Speaker 2: years old when this crime was committed. He's now forty
Speaker 2: six years old. How have you seen him change over
Speaker 2: these past twenty plus years? How has his life experience
Speaker 2: changed him, prison changed him? And perhaps even his faith?
Speaker 4: You know, before Jake died in twenty nineteen, Tremaine was
Speaker 4: I would probably say, I'm still always in Jake's shadow
Speaker 4: as Jake's little brother. It wasn't until Jake died that
Speaker 4: Tremaine came into his own and realized a lot of
Speaker 4: things that I think he had been allowing his brother
Speaker 4: to block his way of thinking. He had to come
Speaker 4: into his own and realize, man, I had the ability,
Speaker 4: and it bothers him every day that he says, if
Speaker 4: I had just been strong enough to tell my brother no,
Speaker 4: none of this would have happened. But I wasn't. And
Speaker 4: you know, I mean he was a kid, He was
Speaker 4: barely an adult when all this happened. And you know,
Speaker 4: I don't think as we grow up and we grow older,
Speaker 4: and some of us we never never learned. But I
Speaker 4: think we don't think about long term consequences, Like now,
Speaker 4: when you get my age, you think about long term
Speaker 4: consequences because long term becomes short term, you know, and
Speaker 4: I just I have seen Tremaine become a remarkable man.
Speaker 4: He's always thinking of other people, he told me the
Speaker 4: last time I saw him. He said, Mom, I just
Speaker 4: want to say that, whether I live or whether I die,
Speaker 4: I just want this everything I've been through to precipitate
Speaker 4: a change for the other inmates who they'll try to
Speaker 4: execute after me, he said, I just want there to
Speaker 4: be a change in this broken system. And so even
Speaker 4: in the final moments, when he's death is knocking at
Speaker 4: his door, possibly he's still thinking about I want my
Speaker 4: life to make a difference in people that still have
Speaker 4: to come where I'm at now. And I'm very proud
Speaker 4: of him As his mother, I'm proud for him to
Speaker 4: be my son. He's amazing.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 2: Uh And to jump on that point, you know there
Speaker 2: are obviously the death penalty is a controversial issue in
Speaker 2: this country, and people have very strong feelings on both
Speaker 2: sides of the fence. I would love to have each
Speaker 2: of you talk about the value of Tremayne's life and
Speaker 2: what he can give back to this world, to your
Speaker 2: family if he's allowed to live.
Speaker 4: Tremaine is amazing. I think that what a waste it
Speaker 4: would be for everyone in his world, the people that
Speaker 4: know and love him, what a waste it would be
Speaker 4: for him to die. He is always trying to give back,
Speaker 4: and that's the sigh of him that people don't know.
Speaker 4: They don't know, the part of you know him that
Speaker 4: while in prison inmates that had no shoes, he would
Speaker 4: take shoes off of his own feet and give him
Speaker 4: to somebody that didn't have any or couldn't didn't have
Speaker 4: money on their books to buy some before he got
Speaker 4: sent back over to H unit. He would cook meals
Speaker 4: and feed hungry inmates who had no commissary. You know,
Speaker 4: that's the kind of man he is. And despite what
Speaker 4: he has been going through for the last two decades,
Speaker 4: he still finds time to encourage these kids, to encourage
Speaker 4: my two great grandkids that I'm raising, to just be
Speaker 4: an inspiration to everybody and try to mentor to young
Speaker 4: people that this is not what you want to do,
Speaker 4: This is not how you want to end up. You
Speaker 4: don't you know. I have a little great grandson in
Speaker 4: here who's not and he's been going through some things.
Speaker 4: And when I took my great grandkids to see him
Speaker 4: and he talked to him, he said, he said, you
Speaker 4: don't want to end up in here. You don't, this
Speaker 4: is not what you want. You know, you need to
Speaker 4: stay in school and do good and you know, straighten
Speaker 4: up your attitude. And it's just that's why I say,
Speaker 4: this just cannot be the end of Tremayne's story. He
Speaker 4: has so much left that he wants to give to
Speaker 4: the world and the people that are in the world
Speaker 4: around him.
Speaker 8: So yeah, like like Grandma said, he's definitely a mentory
Speaker 8: an inspiration for us. He's definitely guided us through a
Speaker 8: lot of things, whether that'd be like school, like arguments
Speaker 8: with people, like he wants to get both sides.
Speaker 4: He doesn't want to hear just one.
Speaker 8: Side and say, oh, well, Brooklyn, you're in the wrong
Speaker 8: because of this, and there's no even both sides, and
Speaker 8: then he'll give you his honest, unbiased opinion on it.
Speaker 8: And just for giving his situation, you wouldn't see, you
Speaker 8: wouldn't feel somebody would have such a positive attitude and
Speaker 8: such a positive outlook on how you should be in
Speaker 8: life and just try to be such like a positive
Speaker 8: influence on people, like stay stay in school, like don't
Speaker 8: don't argue with your parents all the time, Like make
Speaker 8: sure you clean your room up, make sure your your
Speaker 8: grades are good because you have He will always tell
Speaker 8: you that you have the you have the possibility to
Speaker 8: make a change, so do it.
Speaker 4: And you can't do.
Speaker 8: It if you're falling behind, if you're slacking, if you're
Speaker 8: getting in trouble all the time, you can't do that.
Speaker 8: So my uncle is definitely just a big part of
Speaker 8: my life, a big person that keeps me going and
Speaker 8: just like keeps me up in the morning and keeps
Speaker 8: me keeps from I don't know, going in sane practically,
Speaker 8: and he.
Speaker 4: Has, uh, he has. Both of his kids were grown
Speaker 4: before he got to see them. They were three and
Speaker 4: ten months old when when he went to prison, and
Speaker 4: so by the time he got to have a relationship
Speaker 4: with his two boys, they were grown. And I made
Speaker 4: sure that Brendan got to go see him. I took
Speaker 4: him to the prison to see him several times. And
Speaker 4: you know, I'm not real close. Of course, this has
Speaker 4: brought us closer. I wasn't really close to those two
Speaker 4: of my grandchildren because growing up they weren't allowed to
Speaker 4: be around us. Their families. You know, they punished all
Speaker 4: of us for what Tremaine did and what Jake did,
Speaker 4: and but I didn't care about that. I just wanted
Speaker 4: him to be able to have a relationship, and now
Speaker 4: he does. He has a great relationship with both of
Speaker 4: his kids, and he is just so positive with them
Speaker 4: and encourages his son. He has a son in the military,
Speaker 4: and he just encourages him and his other son who's
Speaker 4: who lives here in Oklahoma City. He encourages him to
Speaker 4: be the best you can be. And even then he goes, Mom,
Speaker 4: maybe me coming to prison was a good thing because
Speaker 4: it stopped this cycle of criminal activity, of violence of
Speaker 4: you know, all of this. It's stopped because my kids
Speaker 4: now have you know, they've done good. And you know,
Speaker 4: he's just he's just an amazing, amazing, amazing guy.
Speaker 9: He is.
Speaker 2: Well, we are thinking of all of you, your family.
Speaker 2: We know how what we don't know. We can only
Speaker 2: how difficult these next few hours will be for you all.
Speaker 2: But everyone will be waiting to see what Governor Stit decides,
Speaker 2: And we are thinking of you, and we are hoping
Speaker 2: for the best for your family, and we appreciate you
Speaker 2: opening up and being vulnerable and talking about something so
Speaker 2: incredibly painful. But I know that the hope is that
Speaker 2: there will be changes in the system, and certainly we
Speaker 2: know that you hope your loved one, that Trumaine will
Speaker 2: be able to continue this beautiful relationship he has with
Speaker 2: all of you.
Speaker 9: So thank you, thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you. This is if there's one thing I
Speaker 4: could end this one, it would be our family, his
Speaker 4: legal team. They've all been amazing and we are all
Speaker 4: stronger than the storm we are going through.
Speaker 9: And there is one thing out, one more thing I
Speaker 9: would like to put out there, just for everyone to know.
Speaker 9: They have currently moved my uncle to death watch, and
Speaker 9: that's they put him in a cell that's right next
Speaker 9: to the execution the execution chamber chamber, and he's under
Speaker 9: they took they've taken everything from him except a book
Speaker 9: and his tablet to be able.
Speaker 4: To call us, to call you, well me.
Speaker 9: They've blocked everybody else's number but mine, and he's under
Speaker 9: twenty four hour surveillance. I mean, he doesn't get good meals.
Speaker 9: I'll tell you that right now. We've seen that firsthand
Speaker 9: in visits with what they what they are feeding him,
Speaker 9: and it's not.
Speaker 6: It's what are you the only one that's getting uh,
Speaker 6: that's not blocked.
Speaker 5: He's only calling you.
Speaker 4: We have no idea, it just you know. One of
Speaker 4: the rules for once they're to death watch, which is
Speaker 4: seven days prior to the execution date, is that they
Speaker 4: are the the inmate is supposed to have unlimited access
Speaker 4: to the phone to stay in touch with the mediate family.
Speaker 4: Yet right after the clemency hearing, everybody's numbers blocked. They
Speaker 4: won't let us talk to him. And that is very,
Speaker 4: very tortuous because as his mother, you think i'd be
Speaker 4: the last person they would block.
Speaker 9: But you know, I'm I'm at the point because I'm
Speaker 9: the only person you can call, and I'm having to
Speaker 9: you know, drive around and come here, you know, to
Speaker 9: go to edmind just so we can get a chance.
Speaker 4: To talk to him.
Speaker 6: That seems like that should have been corrected. That's like
Speaker 6: that was a mistake that should have or could have
Speaker 6: been corrected.
Speaker 4: Journey's attempted to try to but they say, the prison
Speaker 4: say it's above them.
Speaker 8: Yeah, they keep saying that it's above their ward and
Speaker 8: the their highest person there, it's above her.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Well no, thank you for actually that's a good no
Speaker 6: getting to look a good detail to know.
Speaker 5: Thank you for that. And again for I want you.
Speaker 6: All to know, if you'll get a chance, if you'll
Speaker 6: listen to podcasts, go back and listen to our Amy
Speaker 6: and t We did a full podcast on this case
Speaker 6: and following this story before we ever decided we wanted
Speaker 6: to reach out. We watch that entire live stream of
Speaker 6: that clement'sy hearing every second of it. So we have
Speaker 6: been We just want to know where we're coming from.
Speaker 6: This is a story and a lot of frankly executions
Speaker 6: we've been following this year because the country has been
Speaker 6: executing folk left and rank, but it was a case
Speaker 6: we were interested in, passionate about, and quite frankly, we
Speaker 6: can say out loud we're on your side about on
Speaker 6: this one in a lot of ways. So really we
Speaker 6: wish you all the best with what you're going through
Speaker 6: and hopefully we talk to you again in better circumstances.
Speaker 4: We appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Thank you, Thank you guys, And
Speaker 2: as of this recording, Tremainwood is set to be executed
Speaker 2: by lethal injection. It's set to take place in the
Speaker 2: state of Oklahoma at ten am Local time eleven am
Speaker 2: Eastern time here and again the governor Governor Kevin Stidt
Speaker 2: has until that ten am deadline to intervene if he
Speaker 2: so chooses, But it should be noted during his tenure
Speaker 2: as governor, the Pardons and Parole Board has recommended clemency
Speaker 2: in four cases. He has only granted it in one case,
Speaker 2: and that was back in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 4: And since he took office as.
Speaker 2: Governor in twenty nineteen, sixteen people have been executed in
Speaker 2: that state. So this is certainly a familiar situation that
Speaker 2: his office says he takes very seriously.
Speaker 5: But we wait.
Speaker 1: I learned so much from these ladies about the process.
Speaker 1: Many of these cases we covered. I didn't I didn't know,
Speaker 1: And I think that was the most gut wrenching part
Speaker 1: that the hug they gave him, they didn't realize it
Speaker 1: was going to be the last. They will get to
Speaker 1: see him one more time, but through a glass. This
Speaker 1: is just again we follow these cases. We always say
Speaker 1: ropes are ever any little bit the question of any kind.
Speaker 1: Let's err on the side of not killing somebody because
Speaker 1: you can't correct that mistake. This is certainly one of
Speaker 1: those that rises to the level of something not quite right.
Speaker 5: So no rush.
Speaker 1: And also we should note the family of the victims
Speaker 1: don't want the execution to go forward. So I always
Speaker 1: say I will I will be on board with any
Speaker 1: law if they say, we'll let the victims family.
Speaker 2: Decide, you know, and we have covered so many of
Speaker 2: these cases at this point that it is something that yes,
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot of things we'd love to
Speaker 2: change about our legal system, but certainly that's one of
Speaker 2: the glaring issues. If the family of the victims do
Speaker 2: not want the convicted killer of their loved one to
Speaker 2: be executed, that should be the final, say period period A.
Speaker 1: Right, folks, We always appreciate you spending some time with us.
Speaker 1: This is when we're keeping a close eye on as
Speaker 1: always top right corner of your Apple podcast app where
Speaker 1: our show page it says follow there you can click that.
Speaker 1: This one will have updates. We don't want you to
Speaker 1: have to go hunting for some of these updates we
Speaker 1: do have. This is when we're going to stay on
Speaker 1: top of so by all means, click that and keep
Speaker 1: hanging with us. We always appreciate you, folks for hemy robot.
Speaker 1: I'm TJ.
Speaker 5: Holmes. We'll talk to y'all real soon.