1 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: Hey, folks, it is Tuesday, November the eleventh, and as 2 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: of this recording, we are forty eight hours away, less 3 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: than forty eight hours away from the execution of inmate 4 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: Tremaine Wood in Oklahoma. His family, in particular his mother 5 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: and his two young nieces, hugged him for the last 6 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: time months ago. They just had no idea that was 7 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: possibly going to be the last hug. Welcome everybody to 8 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: this episode of Amy and TJ. In Robes, I'm speaking 9 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: in particular about Linda Wood, Andreana Wood, and Brooklyn Wood, 10 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: the mother and two nieces of Tremaine, who are right 11 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: now Robes, holding out hope that Thursday. 12 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 2: Won't be the end, and they aren't sleeping, they aren't eating, 13 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 2: and they have experienced every emotion imaginable anticipating what could 14 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 2: possibly happen. No one knows what the governor is going 15 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 2: to decide, and he has until literally the eleventh hour, 16 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 2: moments before the scheduled execution, to make a decision whether 17 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 2: or not to grant Tremaine would clemency. 18 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: So you can only imagine, folks, what it's like for 19 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: that family right now. But we have covered this story. 20 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:20,839 Speaker 1: Robock and I have been following this story for weeks. 21 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: We have a whole episode on the case itself. What 22 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: we're talking about a man, Tremain Wood, who is forty 23 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 1: six years old now, who was in his twenties when 24 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: he was a part of a robbery that took place 25 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: on New Year's Day back in two thousand and two, 26 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: a robbery in which a man ended up dead, stabbed 27 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: to death. Tremain Would and his brother were the two 28 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: who took part in this robbery. There was a back 29 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: and forth about who actually was the one who killed 30 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: the man, but Tremaine Wood's brother also convicted in this crime. 31 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: Robes he got life in prison. Tremaine ends up with 32 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: here we are on death row. There's all kinds of 33 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: questions and legal questions about the representation that Tremaine Would got, 34 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: which by all accounts, I think everybody agrees he did 35 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: not get adequate representation. This has led us now to 36 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: a clemency hearing that we just heard matter of about 37 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: a week ago, in which the clemency Board recommended yes, 38 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: in a vote of three to two, his life should 39 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: be spared. But that doesn't spare his life Robes. It 40 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: means then now the governor and that catches everybody up, 41 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: and that leads us to these three women, these three 42 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: young ladies that we had a chance to talk to. 43 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: We've talked to a lot of people over the years 44 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,079 Speaker 1: and covered a lot of cases. I actually count remember 45 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: talking to someone this intimately who was this close to 46 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: having their loved one killed. 47 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,959 Speaker 2: I have never had a conversation like we just had 48 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 2: with these three women who are going through something that 49 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 2: no mother and no family member would ever want to imagine. 50 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 2: And yet to sit down with them and to have 51 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 2: the time with them that we had with them, it 52 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 2: is impossible to not feel for these women to not 53 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 2: feel something for what is state sanctioned murder in this. 54 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: So, folks, we want you to hear from them now. 55 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: And look, Robot and I we covered this case. We 56 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 1: pointed out we're not going through all the legalities in 57 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 1: the back and forth and the nuances and the legalities 58 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: of this case. This was a matter of talking to 59 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: three women who are days away from losing someone who 60 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: was possibly the most important person in their lives and 61 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: one of the most influential. So here now we want 62 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: you to listen to our conversation with Linda Wood, mother 63 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 1: of Tremaine Wood and Andrea and Brooklyn would his. 64 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 3: Nieces, and I imagine you all have in the past 65 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 3: at least week, been non stop. In fact, you were 66 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 3: just at an event for Trumont. Tell me how you're feeling, 67 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 3: what you've been doing, and what life is like right now. 68 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 4: Life for me right now is Tremaine's mother is stress 69 00:03:55,720 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 4: level one thousand. It is. My heart is so heavy 70 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 4: with the thought that my son could die in less 71 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 4: than two days. So that's kind of how my life 72 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 4: has been for these last few months. He has been 73 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 4: treated so badly at the penitentiary that and you know, 74 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 4: as a mother, the only thing you want to do 75 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 4: when your child is hurting is make it better, and 76 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:27,799 Speaker 4: you can't. So it's been very stressful, very. 77 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 5: Stressful, madam. 78 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 6: You say stressful, How does one prepare for the death 79 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 6: of their child. 80 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 4: You don't. You don't prepare. I have tried to play 81 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 4: that scenario over in my mind a million times in 82 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 4: the last twenty one years, because we knew from the 83 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 4: day he was sentenced to death that that was very 84 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 4: real possibility. But my mind won't allow me to even 85 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 4: fathom him not being here any longer. I always go 86 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 4: back to the same thing. This cannot be the end 87 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 4: of my son's story. 88 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 2: You have been sitting with this, living with this for 89 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 2: more than two decades. But as we're speaking to you, 90 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: it is Tuesday afternoon, and in forty eight hours or so, 91 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 2: give or take, your sun may be there on death row, 92 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 2: his life about to end in these final forty eight hours. 93 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 2: How do you exist? Do you sleep? Do you rest? No? 94 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 4: No, I don't sleep. 95 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 6: I am. 96 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 7: Mentally, emotionally and physically drained. I'm drained. I'm so tired, 97 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 7: but I can't sleep. It's hard for me to eat. 98 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 7: It's just it's torturous. It's torturous. 99 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 8: Yeah, I'll definitely agree with Grandma and that one. It's 100 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 8: definitely it's hard to sleep. It's definitely hard. It's hard 101 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 8: to eat that have an appetite when you're sitting there 102 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 8: thinking that the person that you love the most and 103 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 8: you care about the most is going to be gone 104 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 8: in under forty eight hours. 105 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 4: If this doesn't go the right way. 106 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 5: Brooklyn, why do you. 107 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 4: There is? 108 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 6: You just mentioned him as the most important person and 109 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 6: the closest person in your life. 110 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 5: For folks who aren't aware of. 111 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 6: That, you as a seventeen year oldly speaking on it, 112 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 6: Why is he that much to you? 113 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 8: My uncle has made an amazing impact in my life. 114 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 8: He's helped me through multiple mental health crisis that I've 115 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 8: had within myself, and just multiple I used to get 116 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 8: bullied all the time in school and he's always helped 117 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 8: me through that and taught me that my worth isn't 118 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 8: measured by what other people say about me. It's measured 119 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 8: by what I think about myself and what I see 120 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 8: inside myself. And just because people put in bad and 121 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 8: you have to put good out. 122 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 4: In the world just to receive it back, just because. 123 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 8: You're not getting it in that moment doesn't mean that 124 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 8: you're never gonna get it. 125 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 4: Brooklyn. 126 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 2: You have only known your uncle at seventeen as a 127 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 2: man behind bars, a convicted murderer on death row. And 128 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 2: a lot of people would look at your uncle's story, 129 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 2: his name and think they know and may think he's 130 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 2: a monster, may think he's evil, may think all sorts 131 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 2: of things. How would you describe the uncle you know? 132 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 8: I would describe my uncle as a loving, caring person. 133 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 8: He pretty much puts you before he will put himself. 134 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 8: He'll give you what he has off his back like 135 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 8: the last shirt he has off his back and give 136 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 8: it to you because you needed it more than he 137 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 8: needed it in that moment. He's such a giving person, 138 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 8: and he'll put anybody before he puts himself, just to 139 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 8: make sure they're okay, or they feel right, or they're 140 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 8: mentally okay, they're doing good. 141 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 4: Out in the world. 142 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 8: He will always put somebody before him. 143 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 5: Have you and Andreana the other? 144 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 6: How old are you? Tell me twenty three? Right, yes, 145 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 6: this is your uncle as well. Now tell me what 146 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:20,559 Speaker 6: year were you born? 147 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 8: Two thousand and two? 148 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 6: That was the year this crime took place, is it not? 149 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 9: Yep, I was born a few months after. 150 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 6: It's wild that that's the case. But how do you 151 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 6: explain to people, Explain to us how you go about 152 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 6: having a relationship, much less a loving and supportive one 153 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 6: with an uncle that you have never gotten a chance 154 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 6: to spend time with outside of a prison. 155 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 9: I mean it was mostly just through telephone calls and visits. 156 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 9: I mean I've been going to visit him since he'd 157 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 9: been in like the actual county jail, before he before 158 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 9: the trial, before everything. I was she was taking me 159 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 9: as a baby to go visit, and so I've I 160 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,679 Speaker 9: always knew about him, and I always got I always 161 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 9: got to talk to him growing up on calls and 162 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 9: everything like that, visits, and he just he's never been 163 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 9: a bad person in my eyes ever. And I mean 164 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 9: even when I got old enough, I I knew, you know, 165 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 9: of course I knew that he was in prison, but 166 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 9: I didn't I didn't really know what for until I 167 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 9: was in middle school. And that's when I really started 168 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 9: doing research on the case and and I really saw 169 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 9: how how badly everything was handled, and I was like, 170 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 9: my uncle doesn't deserve to be here. But it's it's 171 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 9: been very easy to have a good relationship with him. 172 00:09:58,880 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 8: I love my uncle to who. 173 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 5: Linda tell me? Why why was that important? She was 174 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 5: a baby, she was edny bitty? Why was it important? 175 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:09,319 Speaker 5: Will be visiting Carl. 176 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 4: I've had Andreana since she was one day old. I 177 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 4: brought her home from the hospital and I raised her. 178 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 4: It's it's funny you should ask that, you know, when 179 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 4: before Andrewa was born and before this crime was committed. 180 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 4: And I feel like I have a good personal relationship 181 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 4: with God. But I felt like God talked to me 182 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 4: and said, you know, there's a baby that will need you, 183 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,199 Speaker 4: and you will need this baby, and people were like, no, 184 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 4: you're crazy. You know you didn't have all the kids 185 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 4: you're having, And I said, I'm telling you. God told 186 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 4: me that. And when she was born, well while her 187 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 4: mom was still pregnant, she decided she didn't want her. 188 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 4: She was going to give her to my son, and 189 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 4: my son gave her to me, and Andreana became the 190 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 4: reason for me being able to make it through the 191 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 4: trial and the whole horror of them being accused of 192 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,199 Speaker 4: a murder. This is before they were convicted. 193 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 2: And. 194 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 4: So when they were in the county jail, I would 195 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 4: go twice a week. I would because they wouldn't let 196 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 4: me see Jake and Tremaine on the same day. I 197 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 4: would take Andreana. She grew up the first three or 198 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 4: four years of her life going twice a week to 199 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 4: the Oklahoma County jail. And I thought it was important 200 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 4: because she needed to know them, and they needed to 201 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 4: know her. This was their niece, and almost everybody, given 202 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 4: the severity of the crime at hand, had cut Jake 203 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 4: off from seeing his kids. Tremaine wasn't allowed to see 204 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 4: his kids, and they needed, they needed some hope. I 205 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 4: just felt like Andreana was was hope, you know, it 206 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 4: was just hope that that we would make it through this. 207 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 4: And but by the grace of God, we have this bar. 208 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 4: But I thought it was important because every kid has 209 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 4: a right to know who their family is. 210 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 2: Linda, you mentioned Jake, your other son. You are mom 211 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 2: to three sons, but I cannot imagine as a mother. 212 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 2: Tremaine and Jake both tried and convicted of murder, and 213 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 2: there was a headline I read that said one brother 214 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 2: confessed to murder and got life without parole. Tremaine would 215 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:45,559 Speaker 2: got death. 216 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 4: Yes, I don't even know. 217 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 2: If you can put into words what that is like 218 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 2: to live with, what that was like to experience. 219 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 4: I tell you, you know, And when you make choices in 220 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 4: your life, you know, your choice is your consequences, whether 221 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 4: consequences are good or bad. But when your life is 222 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 4: forever changed and you don't get a choice, it makes 223 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 4: it hard, It makes it difficult, and it's very hurtful. 224 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 4: My son Andre and I didn't get a choice in this. 225 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 4: You know, nobody said, hey, are you okay if we 226 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 4: go out and somebody gets murdered tonight and we go 227 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 4: to jail, are you okay? If we get the death penalty, 228 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 4: or are you okay if I commit suicide or you okay 229 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 4: if the state executes me. We didn't get a choice 230 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 4: in any of that, and so those choices were made 231 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 4: for us. And it's been really, really difficult when you 232 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 4: lose not one son, but two sons to the system, 233 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 4: and then the system is so bad, especially for people 234 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 4: who have mental health issues like Jake had serious, serious 235 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 4: mental health issues, and it just got to the point. 236 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 4: He was one of the strongest individuals. I thought that 237 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 4: I ever knew, you know, he could do time standing 238 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:16,200 Speaker 4: on his head. But when I got the call in 239 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 4: the middle of the night that he had committed suicide, 240 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 4: it was devastating to lose one child, and now at 241 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 4: the thought that within forty eight hours I could lose 242 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 4: a second child. You know, one third of my heart 243 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 4: is already gone. If Tremaine dies, that's two thirds, and 244 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 4: it's hard to live with one third of a heart. 245 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 4: That's kind of. 246 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 6: Maybe all of you right now, what your last I 247 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 6: guess most recent interaction with Tremaine was what more interaction 248 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 6: you expect to have between now in the next forty 249 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 6: eight hours and all of you all's kind of assessment 250 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 6: how do you all think he's doing. 251 00:14:55,680 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 4: My biggest fear has always been that if they executed Tremaine, he. 252 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 7: Would be there scared and alone. Now Tremaine tells me 253 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 7: he's not scared to die. I don't know if I 254 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 7: believe that. 255 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 4: I don't know that he's scared to die, but I 256 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 4: feel like he's scared of the fallout afterwards for the 257 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 4: rest of us that are left here without him. Our 258 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 4: last interaction before we saw him on camera or on 259 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 4: the TV screen at the clinic's hearing, we had went 260 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 4: the weekend before that and saw and visited him. They 261 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 4: gave us one hour, and well, I think we at 262 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 4: an hour and thirty. Actually, no, we only stayed an 263 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 4: hour because we had to go oh yeah to the rally. 264 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 4: But you know, we never talked about him dying over 265 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 4: this whole twenty one years. He just didn't. We didn't 266 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 4: talk about me dying, We didn't talk about him dying, 267 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 4: And we probably should have had those hard conversations a 268 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 4: long time before we had him. And we only had 269 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 4: him when his number finally came up and we were 270 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 4: forced to have to have him because as the person 271 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 4: responsible as his next of ken. You know, I have 272 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 4: to know what do you want me to do? What 273 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 4: are your final wishes? Just tell me so I can 274 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 4: do it. And it's real difficult. And we all get 275 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 4: to go see him tomorrow as a family for what 276 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 4: if they execute him, will be the final visit that 277 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 4: we have. And I don't know how I feel about that. 278 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 4: I know that I can't ever tell him goodbye. I 279 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 4: cannot leave that visit and tell him goodbye in case 280 00:16:55,480 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 4: he dies. I just can't. 281 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:09,959 Speaker 2: Brooklyn, do you know what you're going to say to 282 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 2: your uncle? What you're not going to say. 283 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 4: To your uncle? 284 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 8: I don't really know, because it's crazy to think that 285 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 8: it's his last visit before you could potentially be executed. 286 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 4: Like what what do you say? 287 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 8: Like like they're like, I don't even know what I 288 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 8: would say, actually, But one thing I do know I 289 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 8: don't want to say is by to my uncle. 290 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 4: I do want to sit there and have to tell 291 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 4: my uncle. 292 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 8: By and think that's the last memory I'm ever going 293 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 8: to have of him, seeing him just sitting there. 294 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 6: Andreana, what about you? And also how long Andreana do 295 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 6: you all know you all are going to get? And 296 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 6: how big of a. 297 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 5: Group are. 298 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 7: People? 299 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 4: And two people get too out hours. Then we switch 300 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 4: out with the next two and then the next two, 301 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 4: so everybody's gotten to see him for two hours. 302 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 6: And Andreana, what about you? How do you also same questions? 303 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 6: How do you think your uncle is doing right now? 304 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 9: I mean he yeah, I will say. Throughout all of 305 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 9: this recently, you know, you can this has like aged 306 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 9: him a lot, you know, and he still he still 307 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 9: stays positive, you know. He whenever we get to whenever 308 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 9: he gets to call us for the little fifteen minute 309 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 9: call we get, he he always tells us to keep 310 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 9: our head up and keep the faith and keep fighting 311 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 9: because it's not over till it's over. But I mean, 312 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 9: it's hard to think that this is this might be 313 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 9: the last visit we get. I mean, I I didn't 314 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 9: get to hug my uncle until I was twenty I'm 315 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 9: twenty three now, and when when was our last June? 316 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 4: Was our last contact visit? 317 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 5: Wow? 318 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 9: And I hate that that was the last hug that 319 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 9: I got to give my uncle because now we just 320 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 9: get to see him through the glass like it started 321 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 9: out with. 322 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 4: I think it's the last one. We'd probably hug him 323 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 4: a little bit tighter and held him a little bit longer. 324 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 325 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 6: Okay, wait, I'm gonna make sure I got that right. 326 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 6: So when you all do this, this plan planned visit 327 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 6: is going. 328 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 9: To be through yeah, through. 329 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, a piece of it will be a contact visit. 330 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 9: Yeah, we won't get to And I'm. 331 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 6: Making sure I'll understood you right there, Linda, Is that 332 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 6: the last time you had a contact visit you didn't 333 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:08,880 Speaker 6: know the execution was coming up? 334 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 4: Now, we knew the exit. We didn't have a date 335 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 4: at that time, but we didn't know that all of 336 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 4: this stuff that's been going on. We didn't know they 337 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 4: were going to snatch him up and throw him back 338 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 4: in H dungeon on H unit and isolate him and 339 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 4: take everything from him. No, we didn't know that. Had 340 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 4: we known, we probably, like I said, would have hugged 341 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 4: him a little longer, held him a little tighter. 342 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 5: Forgive me. 343 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 6: I didn't know this, but you will have given and 344 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 6: you didn't know it. You possibly have given your loved 345 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 6: one his last hug. 346 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 5: You just didn't know it was going to be the 347 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,360 Speaker 5: last stuff. I'm sorry I did not realize. 348 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 9: I didn't. 349 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't know that there was a specific amount 350 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 2: of contact visits you could or couldn't have how does 351 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 2: that work? How often have you able to hold or 352 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 2: touch your son, Linda, over the years. 353 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 4: You know he was in he was on h unit 354 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 4: behind glass, and we didn't get to have contact visits 355 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 4: for sixteen of the twenty one years. And then when 356 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:20,199 Speaker 4: the ACLU got involved and said these living conditions are 357 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 4: not it, and so then the prison I guess, to 358 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 4: avoid any problems with the ACLU, decided to move death 359 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 4: row inmates to a unit and decided to let him 360 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 4: have contact visits. So for more years than not, I 361 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 4: didn't get to hug my son. And then the first 362 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 4: time it was amazing. It had been the first time 363 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 4: in probably eighteen years, because he spent two years in 364 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 4: the county jail where we couldn't have contact visits either. 365 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 4: The first time in eighteen years that I had got 366 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 4: to hug my son and it was I can't even 367 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 4: describe how it felt. I cried. And now to know 368 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,880 Speaker 4: that he could possibly die, you know, death is forever 369 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 4: and we not get to hug him. That the next 370 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 4: time I may get to hug my sons in a 371 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 4: body bag is very very heart wrenching to me. 372 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 2: Linda, do you all have plans if this does go 373 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 2: through to be there when he is executed. 374 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 4: Now, I we will be here as a family. Tremaine 375 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,479 Speaker 4: had to decide he wanted to be there. First of all, 376 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 4: he didn't want any of us to be there. I 377 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 4: told Tremaine it was his choice because he asked me 378 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 4: about a couple of people that he was going to 379 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 4: put on the list. When it's thirty five days before 380 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 4: the execution, they fill out what's called an execution packet, 381 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 4: and they have that on his birthday. Yeah, thirty five 382 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 4: days was on his birthday. And you know, he had 383 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 4: to put down the people who the people who would 384 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,679 Speaker 4: witness his execution. You know, who he wants to be 385 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 4: in charge of where his body goes. He has to 386 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 4: put down what he wants for his last meal, and 387 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 4: who'll pick up his property, all that kind of stuff. 388 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 8: Well, on his birthday, on his birthday, yeah. 389 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 2: And so who will be there in the room. 390 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 4: Well, the only person that'll be in the actual execution 391 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 4: chamber with him should he be executed, would be his 392 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 4: spiritual advisor and whoever's administering the drugs. The other people 393 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 4: sit outside. There's a glass window that's open and people 394 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 4: sit there and witness it. I think the state gets 395 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 4: so many witnesses and Tremaine is allowed I think five witnesses. 396 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 4: I'm not sure five or six or something like that. 397 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 4: I told him that I would respect whoever he wanted 398 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 4: there or just know it couldn't be me. I don't 399 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 4: know that I can even be conscious when ten o'clock 400 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 4: Thursday comes. 401 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 6: Did he specifically ask, though, that you that certain people 402 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 6: not be there. 403 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 4: Yes, he didn't want any of us to be, especially me, 404 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 4: you know he Tremaine is worried, as are all of 405 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 4: us that you know, if you've never lost a child, 406 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 4: it is the most heart wrenching thing and you never 407 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 4: recover from it. You learn how to deal with it, 408 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 4: but you never recover. When my son Jake died, that 409 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 4: was just something spontaneous. It's not something that was planned 410 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 4: out like this. This has been the most tortuous thing, 411 00:24:55,440 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 4: counting days till you know your son could die. It's 412 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 4: just mentally torturous for all of us, so I can 413 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 4: only imagine what it is for him. 414 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 6: But it was in a good day in the midst 415 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,199 Speaker 6: of all the torture to hear the clemency board at 416 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 6: least recommend clemency for him was that a good day. 417 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 4: It was a wonderful day. It was a miracle that 418 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 4: my son was far overdue for twenty one years. They 419 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 4: gave a break before they decided to vote, and we 420 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 4: all went outside. I could not go back in because 421 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 4: I could not stand to hear one more shred of 422 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 4: bad news for my son. So all of the rest 423 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,640 Speaker 4: of my family went back in there, and I said, 424 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 4: I'm going to stay out here because I can't if 425 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 4: they deny him clemency, they'll have taken me out here 426 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 4: on a stretcher. 427 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 9: And after I at least after I heard that third yes, 428 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 9: and the room kind of, you know us at least 429 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 9: we kind of just gasped, and some people started clapping, 430 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 9: and they told us to quiet down. And then me 431 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 9: and my uncle Tremaine's girlfriend jumped up and sprinted out 432 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,239 Speaker 9: of the out of the building and I straight ran 433 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 9: straight to her car. Said they said yes, And then 434 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 9: I broke down in the parking lot like it was. 435 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,360 Speaker 4: I broke down. It was a great day. 436 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 7: It was. 437 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 4: It was the what we had been waiting for, that 438 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 4: the person they had painted him to be through the 439 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 4: Attorney General's office. It uh, they finally saw through all 440 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 4: that and and saw that this guy got a raw deal. 441 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 4: You know, he didn't he wasn't adequately represented, none of that. 442 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 4: So yeah, it was a good your reaction. 443 00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 2: So you have Andreana running out telling you, they said, yes, 444 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 2: can you tell me what you did, what you thought, 445 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 2: what you felt. I mean, I can't imagine the rush 446 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 2: of emotions. 447 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 4: I felt like for the first time in twenty one years, 448 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 4: I could breathe, if just for that moment, And it 449 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 4: was just for that moment, because it you know, there 450 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 4: was a lot of work to be done after that 451 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 4: to convince the governor to stay his execution to community sentence. 452 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 6: Well in the husit, How has it gone on that front? 453 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 6: What do you think your chances are now that the 454 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 6: governor will decide in your favor. 455 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 4: I can say that I hope that. You know, this 456 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 4: is his last year as governor, and all I can 457 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 4: say is that I hope that as a last act 458 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 4: of human compassion for a man who didn't kill anyone, 459 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 4: for a man who sat in that clemency hearing and 460 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 4: admitted I'm a broken person. I've made mistakes. I'm broken. 461 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 4: You know, if I could give this mother her child back, 462 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 4: I would, If I could have been strong enough to 463 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 4: stop my brother that night, I would, but I can't 464 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 4: go back it. I just I just pray that as 465 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,159 Speaker 4: the last act of human compassion for someone that he 466 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 4: will he will do the right thing and stand up 467 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 4: and grant my son clemency. 468 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 7: And Linda. 469 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 2: Much has been made about this law in the state 470 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 2: of Oklahoma that if you're a part of an act, 471 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 2: a criminal act that results in the death of someone, 472 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 2: you are just as culpable as the person who either 473 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 2: pulled the trigger or actually wielded that weapon that ended 474 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 2: that person's life. Feelings about that law, Well. 475 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 4: First of all, I think it's the stupidest law that 476 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 4: was ever written in the history of the world. I mean, 477 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 4: if there are ten of us sitting here and we've 478 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 4: all got a gun and we all start shooting, only 479 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 4: one of ours bullets can kill somebody. So are we 480 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 4: all culpable by being at the scene. Probably? Yes. But 481 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 4: if I didn't kill this person, then I don't deserve 482 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 4: to die. 483 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 2: Do you think your son deserves to be behind bars 484 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 2: for the rest of his life. 485 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 4: No. I think my son he was the least culpable 486 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 4: of everybody that anticipated in this crime, and I don't 487 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 4: just say that because he was my son, because Jake, 488 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 4: who did the actual killing, was my son too. I 489 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 4: think Tremaine was with the wrong people, in the wrong place, 490 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 4: at the wrong time. And I know he has shown 491 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 4: great remorse, great sadness, and has just about lost his 492 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 4: mind over it at certain times in the last twenty 493 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 4: one years. You know, I have always said that my 494 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 4: heart goes as a mother, and my heart goes out 495 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 4: to Ronnie With's mother, because I know that pain of 496 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 4: losing a child, whether you lose him to murder or 497 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 4: suicide or car wreck or whatever it is, it doesn't 498 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 4: make it any easier. And I just feel like he 499 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 4: is so remorseful, And you know, I'm also hopeful that 500 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 4: the governor will take into consideration that the victim's family 501 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 4: and the living victim they do not want to remain executed. 502 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,479 Speaker 2: Have you been able to speak to the with family 503 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 2: at all over these decades a few decades. 504 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 4: I haven't, and I you know we have. We have 505 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 4: tread real lightly as a family because there was so 506 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 4: many improprieties in Tremayne's case, you know, ineffective counsel and 507 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 4: prosecutorial misconduct, just a lot of things. So we've had 508 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,479 Speaker 4: to tread lightly on what we could say and what 509 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 4: we could do, who we could speak to, because we 510 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 4: didn't want to take the chance of messing up any 511 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 4: chance that he had for any type of relief. It 512 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 4: hasn't been only in the last probably months that we 513 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 4: have really as a family gotten to speak out about 514 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 4: all of this, because he had so many things still 515 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 4: pending in different courts and things like that. I don't know, 516 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 4: i'd I don't even know what words I could say 517 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 4: to Barbara Withff to even to make it easier, because 518 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,479 Speaker 4: I know when my son died, there was nothing anyone 519 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 4: could say that made it less painful. This situation with Tremaine. 520 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 4: People tell me all the time, you know, I am 521 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 4: so sorry. I feel bad for you, you know, But 522 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 4: those words, and I know people truly mean it, but 523 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 4: it doesn't make it any easier. So I don't think 524 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 4: there's anything I could say to her. But if there 525 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 4: was anything, is that my heart has always gone out 526 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 4: to her and I am so sorry for the loss 527 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 4: of her son. 528 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 6: An opportunity to speak to the governor or anybody from 529 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 6: his office. 530 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 4: No, not us as a family, Tremaine's attorneys have. We 531 00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 4: haven't gotten to speak to the governor. I wish I 532 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 4: could speak to the governor because what I would say is, 533 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 4: if this was your son or your father, your brother, 534 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 4: your uncle, would you want someone to show them mercy 535 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 4: and grace or would you be so quick to execute them? 536 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 9: So? 537 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, what have What have Tremaine's lawyers told you? Have 538 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 2: they given you any reason to feel hope? Have they 539 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 2: cautioned you not to get your hopes up? 540 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 4: I haven't really talked to Amanda since they saw the 541 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 4: governor yesterday. I know she's very busy filing stuff and 542 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 4: doing this and doing that, and and you know, on 543 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 4: Tremaine's behalf and it's a really busy time for all 544 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 4: of us. So I haven't really spoken to her. I 545 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 4: don't know. Have y'all spoken to you? Heard from uncle yesterday? 546 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 8: He called us last night and he said that they 547 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 8: had called him and told him that the meeting was 548 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 8: that went really well. 549 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 6: That sounded good, right, If the meeting went well, is 550 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 6: that a good thing? 551 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 5: Right? That sounds good. 552 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 9: It's but we. 553 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 5: Don't know what that means exactly. 554 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 2: It went well, Yeah, you don't know what that Yeah, 555 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,399 Speaker 2: it's pretty remarkable even hearing you say that. I can 556 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 2: we can still we're looking at your faces and we 557 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 2: can still see your reservations. You're unwilling, excited. 558 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 6: I only had two more things here. I'll start with actually, 559 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 6: because what's going on. When we first started this interview, 560 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 6: I'm not sure what happened, but there was something between 561 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 6: all of us and you, all three of you all 562 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 6: laughed about something, and I was like, wow, I didn't 563 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 6: expect laughter this entire interview. My question is, have you 564 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,479 Speaker 6: found a little moments to be happy or to crack 565 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:43,919 Speaker 6: a joke? 566 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 8: I feel like and not like with anything like going 567 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 8: on with the case. I don't feel like we cracked 568 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,840 Speaker 8: jokes with anything with that, but you do try to 569 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:55,760 Speaker 8: find like little things. 570 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 4: Like in the day that do kind of try to. 571 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 4: We do joke with uncle Yeah a lot. Yeah, with 572 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 4: our uncle Al, and they try to. 573 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 8: Joke with our dad as much as possible, just to 574 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 8: try to keep him in good spirits because he does 575 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 8: hide his most. We even joke with Mama, so we 576 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 8: try to. We me and Arona do try to keep 577 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 8: the mood very light when it comes just Momma, don't make. 578 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 4: Linda. 579 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,879 Speaker 2: I want to ask you your son was twenty two 580 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 2: years old when this crime was committed. He's now forty 581 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 2: six years old. How have you seen him change over 582 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 2: these past twenty plus years? How has his life experience 583 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 2: changed him, prison changed him? And perhaps even his faith? 584 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 4: You know, before Jake died in twenty nineteen, Tremaine was 585 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 4: I would probably say, I'm still always in Jake's shadow 586 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,879 Speaker 4: as Jake's little brother. It wasn't until Jake died that 587 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 4: Tremaine came into his own and realized a lot of 588 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 4: things that I think he had been allowing his brother 589 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,759 Speaker 4: to block his way of thinking. He had to come 590 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 4: into his own and realize, man, I had the ability, 591 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,320 Speaker 4: and it bothers him every day that he says, if 592 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 4: I had just been strong enough to tell my brother no, 593 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 4: none of this would have happened. But I wasn't. And 594 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 4: you know, I mean he was a kid, He was 595 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:45,880 Speaker 4: barely an adult when all this happened. And you know, 596 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 4: I don't think as we grow up and we grow older, 597 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 4: and some of us we never never learned. But I 598 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 4: think we don't think about long term consequences, Like now, 599 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 4: when you get my age, you think about long term 600 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 4: consequences because long term becomes short term, you know, and 601 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 4: I just I have seen Tremaine become a remarkable man. 602 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 4: He's always thinking of other people, he told me the 603 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 4: last time I saw him. He said, Mom, I just 604 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 4: want to say that, whether I live or whether I die, 605 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 4: I just want this everything I've been through to precipitate 606 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 4: a change for the other inmates who they'll try to 607 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,840 Speaker 4: execute after me, he said, I just want there to 608 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 4: be a change in this broken system. And so even 609 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,359 Speaker 4: in the final moments, when he's death is knocking at 610 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 4: his door, possibly he's still thinking about I want my 611 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 4: life to make a difference in people that still have 612 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:04,760 Speaker 4: to come where I'm at now. And I'm very proud 613 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 4: of him As his mother, I'm proud for him to 614 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,240 Speaker 4: be my son. He's amazing. 615 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:12,359 Speaker 5: Wow. 616 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 2: Uh And to jump on that point, you know there 617 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 2: are obviously the death penalty is a controversial issue in 618 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,279 Speaker 2: this country, and people have very strong feelings on both 619 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 2: sides of the fence. I would love to have each 620 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 2: of you talk about the value of Tremayne's life and 621 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 2: what he can give back to this world, to your 622 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 2: family if he's allowed to live. 623 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 4: Tremaine is amazing. I think that what a waste it 624 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:49,279 Speaker 4: would be for everyone in his world, the people that 625 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 4: know and love him, what a waste it would be 626 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 4: for him to die. He is always trying to give back, 627 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:01,399 Speaker 4: and that's the sigh of him that people don't know. 628 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 4: They don't know, the part of you know him that 629 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 4: while in prison inmates that had no shoes, he would 630 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,319 Speaker 4: take shoes off of his own feet and give him 631 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,239 Speaker 4: to somebody that didn't have any or couldn't didn't have 632 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 4: money on their books to buy some before he got 633 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 4: sent back over to H unit. He would cook meals 634 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,839 Speaker 4: and feed hungry inmates who had no commissary. You know, 635 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 4: that's the kind of man he is. And despite what 636 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,360 Speaker 4: he has been going through for the last two decades, 637 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:39,360 Speaker 4: he still finds time to encourage these kids, to encourage 638 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:44,400 Speaker 4: my two great grandkids that I'm raising, to just be 639 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:49,959 Speaker 4: an inspiration to everybody and try to mentor to young 640 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 4: people that this is not what you want to do, 641 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 4: This is not how you want to end up. You 642 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:59,279 Speaker 4: don't you know. I have a little great grandson in 643 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,800 Speaker 4: here who's not and he's been going through some things. 644 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:07,359 Speaker 4: And when I took my great grandkids to see him 645 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 4: and he talked to him, he said, he said, you 646 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 4: don't want to end up in here. You don't, this 647 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 4: is not what you want. You know, you need to 648 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 4: stay in school and do good and you know, straighten 649 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:24,799 Speaker 4: up your attitude. And it's just that's why I say, 650 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,239 Speaker 4: this just cannot be the end of Tremayne's story. He 651 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,759 Speaker 4: has so much left that he wants to give to 652 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,239 Speaker 4: the world and the people that are in the world 653 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 4: around him. 654 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 8: So yeah, like like Grandma said, he's definitely a mentory 655 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:47,840 Speaker 8: an inspiration for us. He's definitely guided us through a 656 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 8: lot of things, whether that'd be like school, like arguments 657 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,720 Speaker 8: with people, like he wants to get both sides. 658 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 4: He doesn't want to hear just one. 659 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 8: Side and say, oh, well, Brooklyn, you're in the wrong 660 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 8: because of this, and there's no even both sides, and 661 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 8: then he'll give you his honest, unbiased opinion on it. 662 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 8: And just for giving his situation, you wouldn't see, you 663 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 8: wouldn't feel somebody would have such a positive attitude and 664 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,799 Speaker 8: such a positive outlook on how you should be in 665 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,040 Speaker 8: life and just try to be such like a positive 666 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 8: influence on people, like stay stay in school, like don't 667 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,160 Speaker 8: don't argue with your parents all the time, Like make 668 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,799 Speaker 8: sure you clean your room up, make sure your your 669 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 8: grades are good because you have He will always tell 670 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,000 Speaker 8: you that you have the you have the possibility to 671 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,439 Speaker 8: make a change, so do it. 672 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:38,560 Speaker 4: And you can't do. 673 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 8: It if you're falling behind, if you're slacking, if you're 674 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:42,920 Speaker 8: getting in trouble all the time, you can't do that. 675 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,880 Speaker 8: So my uncle is definitely just a big part of 676 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 8: my life, a big person that keeps me going and 677 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,280 Speaker 8: just like keeps me up in the morning and keeps 678 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:59,839 Speaker 8: me keeps from I don't know, going in sane practically, 679 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:01,319 Speaker 8: and he. 680 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 4: Has, uh, he has. Both of his kids were grown 681 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,560 Speaker 4: before he got to see them. They were three and 682 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:18,600 Speaker 4: ten months old when when he went to prison, and 683 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,759 Speaker 4: so by the time he got to have a relationship 684 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:28,399 Speaker 4: with his two boys, they were grown. And I made 685 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:34,200 Speaker 4: sure that Brendan got to go see him. I took 686 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:38,000 Speaker 4: him to the prison to see him several times. And 687 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 4: you know, I'm not real close. Of course, this has 688 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,759 Speaker 4: brought us closer. I wasn't really close to those two 689 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,920 Speaker 4: of my grandchildren because growing up they weren't allowed to 690 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,359 Speaker 4: be around us. Their families. You know, they punished all 691 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 4: of us for what Tremaine did and what Jake did, 692 00:42:54,600 --> 00:43:00,359 Speaker 4: and but I didn't care about that. I just wanted 693 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,799 Speaker 4: him to be able to have a relationship, and now 694 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 4: he does. He has a great relationship with both of 695 00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:11,560 Speaker 4: his kids, and he is just so positive with them 696 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,160 Speaker 4: and encourages his son. He has a son in the military, 697 00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,640 Speaker 4: and he just encourages him and his other son who's 698 00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:22,120 Speaker 4: who lives here in Oklahoma City. He encourages him to 699 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:25,439 Speaker 4: be the best you can be. And even then he goes, Mom, 700 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,640 Speaker 4: maybe me coming to prison was a good thing because 701 00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:35,000 Speaker 4: it stopped this cycle of criminal activity, of violence of 702 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,560 Speaker 4: you know, all of this. It's stopped because my kids 703 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:43,600 Speaker 4: now have you know, they've done good. And you know, 704 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:49,920 Speaker 4: he's just he's just an amazing, amazing, amazing guy. 705 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:50,600 Speaker 9: He is. 706 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:57,200 Speaker 2: Well, we are thinking of all of you, your family. 707 00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,799 Speaker 2: We know how what we don't know. We can only 708 00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:04,239 Speaker 2: how difficult these next few hours will be for you all. 709 00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:09,760 Speaker 2: But everyone will be waiting to see what Governor Stit decides, 710 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 2: And we are thinking of you, and we are hoping 711 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,359 Speaker 2: for the best for your family, and we appreciate you 712 00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:22,640 Speaker 2: opening up and being vulnerable and talking about something so 713 00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:26,399 Speaker 2: incredibly painful. But I know that the hope is that 714 00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:30,880 Speaker 2: there will be changes in the system, and certainly we 715 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:35,719 Speaker 2: know that you hope your loved one, that Trumaine will 716 00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,600 Speaker 2: be able to continue this beautiful relationship he has with 717 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:39,000 Speaker 2: all of you. 718 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:41,839 Speaker 9: So thank you, thank you so much for having us. 719 00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you. This is if there's one thing I 720 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 4: could end this one, it would be our family, his 721 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:53,399 Speaker 4: legal team. They've all been amazing and we are all 722 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,520 Speaker 4: stronger than the storm we are going through. 723 00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,160 Speaker 9: And there is one thing out, one more thing I 724 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,680 Speaker 9: would like to put out there, just for everyone to know. 725 00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:08,640 Speaker 9: They have currently moved my uncle to death watch, and 726 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,280 Speaker 9: that's they put him in a cell that's right next 727 00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:17,400 Speaker 9: to the execution the execution chamber chamber, and he's under 728 00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:21,400 Speaker 9: they took they've taken everything from him except a book 729 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:24,600 Speaker 9: and his tablet to be able. 730 00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,640 Speaker 4: To call us, to call you, well me. 731 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:35,120 Speaker 9: They've blocked everybody else's number but mine, and he's under 732 00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:39,680 Speaker 9: twenty four hour surveillance. I mean, he doesn't get good meals. 733 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,520 Speaker 9: I'll tell you that right now. We've seen that firsthand 734 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,719 Speaker 9: in visits with what they what they are feeding him, 735 00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:46,279 Speaker 9: and it's not. 736 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,520 Speaker 6: It's what are you the only one that's getting uh, 737 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:53,040 Speaker 6: that's not blocked. 738 00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:53,920 Speaker 5: He's only calling you. 739 00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:58,120 Speaker 4: We have no idea, it just you know. One of 740 00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,239 Speaker 4: the rules for once they're to death watch, which is 741 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:05,359 Speaker 4: seven days prior to the execution date, is that they 742 00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:09,840 Speaker 4: are the the inmate is supposed to have unlimited access 743 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:13,560 Speaker 4: to the phone to stay in touch with the mediate family. 744 00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:20,480 Speaker 4: Yet right after the clemency hearing, everybody's numbers blocked. They 745 00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:22,399 Speaker 4: won't let us talk to him. And that is very, 746 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:28,360 Speaker 4: very tortuous because as his mother, you think i'd be 747 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:29,760 Speaker 4: the last person they would block. 748 00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,319 Speaker 9: But you know, I'm I'm at the point because I'm 749 00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,560 Speaker 9: the only person you can call, and I'm having to 750 00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:42,040 Speaker 9: you know, drive around and come here, you know, to 751 00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:46,560 Speaker 9: go to edmind just so we can get a chance. 752 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:47,080 Speaker 4: To talk to him. 753 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,960 Speaker 6: That seems like that should have been corrected. That's like 754 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,000 Speaker 6: that was a mistake that should have or could have 755 00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:53,560 Speaker 6: been corrected. 756 00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,360 Speaker 4: Journey's attempted to try to but they say, the prison 757 00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:58,399 Speaker 4: say it's above them. 758 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,160 Speaker 8: Yeah, they keep saying that it's above their ward and 759 00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:03,879 Speaker 8: the their highest person there, it's above her. 760 00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:07,880 Speaker 4: Yeah. 761 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,000 Speaker 6: Well no, thank you for actually that's a good no 762 00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,200 Speaker 6: getting to look a good detail to know. 763 00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:14,640 Speaker 5: Thank you for that. And again for I want you. 764 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:15,960 Speaker 6: All to know, if you'll get a chance, if you'll 765 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,680 Speaker 6: listen to podcasts, go back and listen to our Amy 766 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,560 Speaker 6: and t We did a full podcast on this case 767 00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,600 Speaker 6: and following this story before we ever decided we wanted 768 00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:28,080 Speaker 6: to reach out. We watch that entire live stream of 769 00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:31,719 Speaker 6: that clement'sy hearing every second of it. So we have 770 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:33,480 Speaker 6: been We just want to know where we're coming from. 771 00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,440 Speaker 6: This is a story and a lot of frankly executions 772 00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:38,560 Speaker 6: we've been following this year because the country has been 773 00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,520 Speaker 6: executing folk left and rank, but it was a case 774 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,680 Speaker 6: we were interested in, passionate about, and quite frankly, we 775 00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,640 Speaker 6: can say out loud we're on your side about on 776 00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:49,239 Speaker 6: this one in a lot of ways. So really we 777 00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,879 Speaker 6: wish you all the best with what you're going through 778 00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,960 Speaker 6: and hopefully we talk to you again in better circumstances. 779 00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:56,440 Speaker 4: We appreciate it. 780 00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:02,480 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Thank you, Thank you guys, And 781 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:06,200 Speaker 2: as of this recording, Tremainwood is set to be executed 782 00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:09,440 Speaker 2: by lethal injection. It's set to take place in the 783 00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,839 Speaker 2: state of Oklahoma at ten am Local time eleven am 784 00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,920 Speaker 2: Eastern time here and again the governor Governor Kevin Stidt 785 00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:20,160 Speaker 2: has until that ten am deadline to intervene if he 786 00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,600 Speaker 2: so chooses, But it should be noted during his tenure 787 00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:27,160 Speaker 2: as governor, the Pardons and Parole Board has recommended clemency 788 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:31,840 Speaker 2: in four cases. He has only granted it in one case, 789 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,480 Speaker 2: and that was back in twenty twenty one. 790 00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,240 Speaker 4: And since he took office as. 791 00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:41,440 Speaker 2: Governor in twenty nineteen, sixteen people have been executed in 792 00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:45,200 Speaker 2: that state. So this is certainly a familiar situation that 793 00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:47,360 Speaker 2: his office says he takes very seriously. 794 00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:49,720 Speaker 5: But we wait. 795 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,720 Speaker 1: I learned so much from these ladies about the process. 796 00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:56,839 Speaker 1: Many of these cases we covered. I didn't I didn't know, 797 00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:59,480 Speaker 1: And I think that was the most gut wrenching part 798 00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:01,640 Speaker 1: that the hug they gave him, they didn't realize it 799 00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:03,160 Speaker 1: was going to be the last. They will get to 800 00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,799 Speaker 1: see him one more time, but through a glass. This 801 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,759 Speaker 1: is just again we follow these cases. We always say 802 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,720 Speaker 1: ropes are ever any little bit the question of any kind. 803 00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,399 Speaker 1: Let's err on the side of not killing somebody because 804 00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,880 Speaker 1: you can't correct that mistake. This is certainly one of 805 00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:22,239 Speaker 1: those that rises to the level of something not quite right. 806 00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:23,640 Speaker 5: So no rush. 807 00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,360 Speaker 1: And also we should note the family of the victims 808 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:30,280 Speaker 1: don't want the execution to go forward. So I always 809 00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:32,560 Speaker 1: say I will I will be on board with any 810 00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,279 Speaker 1: law if they say, we'll let the victims family. 811 00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,279 Speaker 2: Decide, you know, and we have covered so many of 812 00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:41,040 Speaker 2: these cases at this point that it is something that yes, 813 00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:42,560 Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot of things we'd love to 814 00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:46,440 Speaker 2: change about our legal system, but certainly that's one of 815 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,520 Speaker 2: the glaring issues. If the family of the victims do 816 00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:53,840 Speaker 2: not want the convicted killer of their loved one to 817 00:49:54,880 --> 00:50:00,080 Speaker 2: be executed, that should be the final, say period period A. 818 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,879 Speaker 1: Right, folks, We always appreciate you spending some time with us. 819 00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,120 Speaker 1: This is when we're keeping a close eye on as 820 00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:08,640 Speaker 1: always top right corner of your Apple podcast app where 821 00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,040 Speaker 1: our show page it says follow there you can click that. 822 00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:13,480 Speaker 1: This one will have updates. We don't want you to 823 00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:15,759 Speaker 1: have to go hunting for some of these updates we 824 00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:17,239 Speaker 1: do have. This is when we're going to stay on 825 00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,919 Speaker 1: top of so by all means, click that and keep 826 00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,600 Speaker 1: hanging with us. We always appreciate you, folks for hemy robot. 827 00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:23,040 Speaker 1: I'm TJ. 828 00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:24,319 Speaker 5: Holmes. We'll talk to y'all real soon.