1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Support for today's podcast comes from Helix. A few weeks ago, 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: I shared that my husband and I have been searching 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,720 Speaker 1: for our perfect mattress to no avail when serendipity afforded 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: us the opportunity to try a Helix mattress. Well, it's 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: been about six weeks now and I am still loving 6 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 1: the sleep I'm getting on this mattress. The thing I 7 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: loved most about the ordering process was that we were 8 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: able to take a two many quiz that matches your 9 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: body type and sleep preference to the perfect mattress for you. 10 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:34,639 Speaker 1: Ordering was very easy and delivery was super fast. 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Just go 18 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: to Helix sleep dot com slash Therapy for Black Girls, 19 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: take their two minute sleep quiz and they'll match you 20 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 1: to a customized mattress that will give you the best 21 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: sleep of your life. Now let's get into the show. 22 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 23 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 24 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 25 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford, 26 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 27 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 28 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope 29 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it 30 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship 31 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so 32 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: much for joining me for session one fifty six of 33 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 1: the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. Today, our favorite friendship researcher, 34 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 1: Dr Marissa Franco is back to discuss how to manage loneliness. 35 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: If you miss Dr Franco's earlier episode about making friends 36 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: as an adult, let me give you a little bit 37 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: of an introduction to her. Dr Marissa G. Franco graduated 38 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: with her PhD and countling psychology from the University of 39 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: Maryland in She's a licensed psychologist in the state of 40 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 1: Maryland and an expert on the topic of friendship. She 41 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: is currently writing a book on how to Make Friends 42 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: as an Adult Platonic, which is represented by a Veta's 43 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: Creative Management. She also writes about friendship for Psychology Today 44 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: and has been a featured expert on friendship for major 45 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: publications like The New York Times, The Telegraph, and Bustle. 46 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: Dr Franco and I chatted about the three different types 47 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: of loneliness, how to tell if we're struggling with loneliness, 48 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: and tips for overcoming If you hear something while listening 49 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: that resonates with you, please be sure to share it 50 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: with us on social media using the hashtag tbg in session. 51 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us again. 52 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: Dr Franco, sure excited to be back. Thanks for the opportunity. 53 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: Dr Joy of course anytime, so I'm glad that you're 54 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: back with us today. And if you miss Dr Franco's 55 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: first episode about making for instance, an adult, then you 56 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: definitely want to go back and check that one out 57 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: because it is an always timely conversation, but even more 58 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: timely today talking about loneliness. As we are continuing through 59 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: this pandemic. So can you share a little bit about 60 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: maybe some of your impressions Dr Franco of things maybe 61 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: you've heard from community or you know just kind of 62 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: you know, people sharing online and stuff. Yeah, I mean, 63 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: this is clearly a really lonely time, and I think 64 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: the struggle of the loneliness now is that I don't 65 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 1: think you can necessarily overcome this level of loneliness with 66 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: all of us not seeing each other. And I think, 67 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,919 Speaker 1: you know, particularly for single folks, but also for like 68 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 1: people in relationships as well, because according to the research, 69 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: there's actually three different types of loneliness. One is called 70 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: like intimate loneliness, where you feel like you crave is 71 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: very close intimate connections like relationship partner or like a 72 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 1: best friend. And then there's relational loneliness and that's just 73 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 1: like craving, like those close relationships that are right above 74 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: the intimate sphere, like general friends or your co workers 75 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: or people you feel kind of close to. And then 76 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: there's your senseit of communal loneliness, which is your sense 77 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 1: of loneliness for a larger community that's connected to some 78 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: type of purpose. And I think is really important to 79 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: keep these different types of loneliness in mind, because even 80 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: those of us who are quarantined with roommates or with 81 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: the romantic partner, with their families, we can still feel 82 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: lonely because any of those aspects of loneliness can make 83 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: us feel lonely and also feeling like we don't have 84 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 1: connections to our larger sense of community. And so I 85 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: think right now loneliness is showing up in many different 86 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,359 Speaker 1: ways for people. But I think that like at a 87 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: time like this, none of us is really immune to it. 88 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. And I think it's interesting that you've identified 89 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 1: like three different types because you're saying like, at any moment, 90 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:33,919 Speaker 1: one of those could be difficult. And I think for 91 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: a lot of people were struggling with all three. Yeah, 92 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 1: a lot of us are struggling with all three. I mean, 93 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 1: I think the communal loneliness relates to that like larger 94 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: sense of purpose, and I think that feels really hard 95 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: when there's so much panic and there's so much stress, 96 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 1: and we also can't come together in larger communities with people. 97 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: So you're right, like you can be sort of um 98 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: bombarded with all these three types of loneliness at once 99 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: and it's it's really tough. Yeah. So you mentioned Dr 100 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 1: for Go that you think that the loneliness might be 101 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: showing up in ways that people are not recognizing. Can 102 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 1: you tell us maybe what's to look for, Like, how 103 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: do we know if it's actually loneliness that we might 104 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: be struggling with. So this is a really great question, 105 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 1: Dr Joy, because people think of loneliness just as like 106 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: a sense of isolation and like I haven't had company 107 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 1: in a while, But it's actually a a feeling of 108 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: social threat and so what do I mean by that? 109 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 1: Loneliness fundamentally alters how you perceive reality and how you 110 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: perceive the world. So what the research basically finds is 111 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: that we're when we're lonely. If you interact with a 112 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: lonely person, they're more likely to dislike you after. Lonely 113 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: people are more likely to be judgmental of other people. 114 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 1: Lonely people are more likely to assume that other people 115 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: are rejecting or criticizing them. Lonely people are ironically feel 116 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: the sort of dual desires. One of the desires is like, oh, 117 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: I feel the need to really connect with people, but 118 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: another desire is actually the need to treat from people. 119 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: And the reason that's occurring is because when you're in 120 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: this lonely state, you're under threat again, and you feel 121 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 1: like if I talk to people, they might threaten me 122 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: or they might reject me. And so because of this, 123 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: we have these sort of competing desires when we're in 124 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: a state of loneliness where we want to reach out 125 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: to people. But actually the hardest time to reach out 126 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: to people is when you're in a state of loneliness, 127 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: because everybody feels so threatening to you. It feels almost 128 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: like inevitable that if you reach out to people, they 129 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: might reject you. And so because of all those reasons, 130 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: because it's like these subtle ways that loneliness affect us, 131 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: we may not necessarily understand that, like, Okay, this is 132 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: my lonely brain speaking, I'm assuming that my friends don't 133 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: want to hear from me. I'm assuming that my friends 134 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: were going to reject me. I'm assuming things like nobody 135 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: likes me. I'm I'm going back to old memories that 136 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: are negative in my relationships and I'm festering on them. 137 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: I feel like withdrawing, I'm in a negative mood. All 138 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: those things we may not attribute to loneliness and we 139 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: may not even notice. Like it's sort of like a 140 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: you know, like the poison with no taste. It's happening 141 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: to us, but we don't even know what's happening to us. 142 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: And so as I've been reading the research and understanding 143 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: this more deeply, there's been, you know, times where I'm 144 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: just like, oh, yeah, like I'm assuming that other people 145 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: aren't gonna want to hear from me, and and actually 146 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: I'm just in this bad mood and it's inexplicable and 147 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: realizing and identifying that, oh, actually my loneliness can be 148 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: playing a part in that, and I actually need social 149 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: connection right now, and so yeah, I just want to 150 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: push us to just expand our understanding of what how 151 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: loneliness and affests for us, so that we can be 152 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: more aware of those times when we're feeling lonely. So, 153 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: Dr Franco, what you're sharing sounds very much like a 154 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: hallmark depressive kind of symptom, and the idea of like 155 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: a lot of the things that you know would actually 156 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: help you to feel better, you maybe don't have the energy, 157 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: other perspective to do. So I just want to make 158 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 1: sure that I heard you could did you say that 159 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: somebody who's experiencing loneliness, if they meet someone, they might 160 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: be less likely to like you afterwards, Well, there's two 161 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: things you will be less likely to like them. Lonely 162 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: people actually like to hear people less. But the other 163 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,319 Speaker 1: thing is that when we're in our state of loneliness, 164 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: you're in a state of self protection, right, You're wanting 165 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: to protect yourself from this threat. But how that manifest 166 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:25,079 Speaker 1: to other people around you is that you're sort of 167 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: antisocial and you're withdrawn and then and that your mean 168 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: And what's actually happening is people are under threat, so 169 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 1: they're closing off, so they're not being warmed towards others, 170 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,439 Speaker 1: so they're not feeling genuine they're not feeling like themselves. 171 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: And so when you close off in that way because 172 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: you're feeling threatened, what it comes off to to other 173 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: people is that you're rejecting them. And then you're vulnerable 174 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: to continuing to that psycho of loneliness. Like it's like 175 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: a virus that can spread from person to person. Because 176 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: when we interact with those lonely people, they tend to 177 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: reference themselves more, they tend to be a lot more 178 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: absorbed with what's going on in their lives. They don't 179 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: ask as many questions of their interaction partner, and so 180 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: what we see playing out in these lonely states is 181 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:07,559 Speaker 1: really something called an ecocentric bias. And ecocentric bias is 182 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: basically like I'm so wrapped up in my pain that 183 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: I don't understand that other people feel paid to that 184 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 1: other people are suffering too, and I'm taking everything to 185 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: mean something personal about me and not considering the larger 186 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: context of other people. Yeah. Dr Franco, So this is 187 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: mind blowing. I always love when you come with the 188 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: new research because I don't know that this is something 189 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: that we're always thinking about, and I feel like it 190 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: would really be hard to know that this is what's 191 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 1: happening for you. It is so hard, like I've just 192 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: been just learning this is also like I don't know 193 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: it's in my mind, and there's just been moments for 194 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: me where I've just been like really like understanding what 195 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: it's like in those moments when I feel lonely and 196 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: I felt like I'm so desperate to reach out to 197 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 1: someone to connect, but I'm so sure that if I do, 198 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: they are going to reject me. And so it's and 199 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: I can eat you know right now, don't. Now that 200 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,559 Speaker 1: I understand the research, I can be like, that's not true. 201 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 1: This is my lonely brain speaking, but it feels so 202 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: real to me because that's that's what a lonely state 203 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 1: bails us in. That's how the only state cloaths us. 204 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: M m mmm. So, of course we know a lot 205 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: of Maybe the lonely state has been kind of provoked 206 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: by us having to shelter in place and maybe being 207 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,199 Speaker 1: more withdrawn from our support systems than we would usually. 208 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: Are there other things that might lead to people feel 209 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,559 Speaker 1: in this way, Yes, certainly so. I think A point 210 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: that I wanted to make too, is that loneliness lived 211 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: outside of us, right when we don't get enough social contact, 212 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 1: we're not interacting with people, but it also lives within us. 213 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: We carry the baggage of loneliness within us based on 214 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: our past experiences. And what do I mean by that? 215 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: You know, me, you, other people. We can all have 216 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 1: the same stretch of like five hours where we're alone. 217 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: Some of us are going to experience it as loneliness 218 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: and some of us are not. And the question is 219 00:11:57,480 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: that's been answered a little bit by the research is 220 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: who is going to experience that alone time as an 221 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: expanse of loneliness and who isn't it going to experience 222 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: it as maybe, oh, this is some time alone that 223 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: I can enjoy. And it really depends on things like 224 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: your self esteem, Like the research shows that your self 225 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: esteem affects your feelings of loneliness, such that if you 226 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,319 Speaker 1: have low self esteem and you go through these periods 227 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 1: of alone time, you're more likely to experience it as loneliness. 228 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: Things like your mental health. If you have poor mental 229 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: health and you're experiencing alone time, you're more likely to 230 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: experience it as loneliness. And so our experiences of rejection, 231 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: our experiences of neglect, our experiences of um just negative 232 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: social interactions that we carry with us inside of us, 233 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: and we project those into empty spaces of time where 234 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: it feels like this eftiness. We fill it up with 235 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: assumptions about people's rejection to us, even though nothing is 236 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: actually happening and we're not actually interacting with people. And 237 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: so I think you know, in the process of getting 238 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: over loneliness, we need to think about how do we 239 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: tackle the loneliness outside of us through finding people to 240 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 1: interact with and also how do we tackle the loneliness 241 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: within us? How do we look deeply at the baggage 242 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: that we carry that makes us feel that in those 243 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 1: times when we're alone, were suddenly flooded with all of 244 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: these negative memories of negative experiences that we've had with 245 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: other people. And so are there some thoughts about like 246 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: how we start tapping into that. Yeah, certainly, obviously we 247 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: have therapy. I mean I think certainly therapy can make 248 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: people feel less lonely, which is really, you know, ironic, 249 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: because it's this time outside of therapy when you're thriving 250 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 1: more and you're feeling less lonely. There's also a few 251 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: techniques that I've come across in the literature. One way 252 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: is to turn your loneliness is into active solitude. So 253 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:49,959 Speaker 1: when people feel more control over their alone time, then 254 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: it feels less lonely to them. So for example, if 255 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I have five hours of free time, 256 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: I Am going to watch YouTube and do it and 257 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: do it yourself video and this will be like my 258 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: hobby time or or yeah, if you turn it into 259 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: like this is my time to you know, do my 260 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: knitting or do my crocheting. If you turn it into 261 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: like this is like actual time that I'm going to 262 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: use and that I feel in control of for some 263 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: type of purpose. Then you're going to feel less lonely. 264 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: In terms of like also handling the loneliness that's inside 265 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: of us. There's this interesting technique it's called the third person. 266 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: It's gonna make you feel really goofy when you use it, 267 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: but I think it's actually really effective again, Dr Franco, 268 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: the third person person technique. Yeah, So basically what you 269 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: do is you the third person. So if someone's going 270 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: through loneliness, I might say, like, Marissa feels really lousy 271 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: right now, Marissa feels like no one wants to hear 272 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: from her. Wrissa feels so lone. And what that does 273 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: is it actually, um at the neurological level of your brain, 274 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: your brain is being less triggered because you have separation 275 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: from that emotional state. You are then in the state 276 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: where you are watching the cloud of loneliness happening in 277 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: your brain instead of just being a part of it 278 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: and feeling it. So if is goofy, but I actually 279 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: want to encourage people to try it because it's a 280 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: form of mindfulness. It's a way to use language to 281 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: engage in mindfulness, where like, instead of the threat overtaking you, 282 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: you are now in a position to watch the threat 283 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: that might be happening inside your body, separate yourself from it, 284 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: and feel less triggered by it. Mm hmmm. And I 285 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: wonder if there's a part of the third person activity 286 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: where you would also talk about like what the person 287 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: might do to feel less lonely. Yeah, so maybe turning 288 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: get into that purposeful action that you talked about in 289 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: the first example. Yeah, I totally agree. I think you know, 290 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: it can certainly bring you to a state where you 291 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: have more of the wherewithal to go and reach out 292 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: to people, because obviously that's ultimately what we want to 293 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: do to cure our loneliness, reach out to people and connect. 294 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: But it's again like the hardest time to actually do 295 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: that is when we feel loneliness because of all this 296 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: ways that like loneliness and threat just hijacks our brain 297 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: and hijacksually assumptions out of the world. So I think 298 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: the third person technique can also be a strategy are 299 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: taking a step back and also being able to talk 300 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: yourself through what you need to feel better, what you 301 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: need to get out of this lonely state. So, Dr Franco, 302 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: this might be perhaps a throwback to your first episode here, 303 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: but I think a lot of people do really struggle 304 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: with not necessarily having people to reach out to. So 305 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: if they recognize the loneliness in themselves and they've done 306 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: you know, what you're telling them to do, but they realize, like, 307 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: who would I even reach out to? Then what would 308 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: be the suggestion there, Like if like a name or 309 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: a list of names don't readily become available. Yeah, so 310 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: I think now it's actually a really good time too. 311 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: I like to say, wake up your sleepy relationships or 312 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: rekindle old friendships. I think a lot of the time, 313 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: we know that from the research that the number one 314 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: reason my friendships end, it's not because there was any 315 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: sort of malice or resentment or a big fight or conflict. 316 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: It was just we fell out of touch. And so 317 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: now we have more of that time to be intentional 318 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: about reaching out to and being in touch with other 319 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: people and setting aside that time to rekindle things. And 320 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: so I think if you're finding yourself like who can 321 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 1: I reach out to? Who do I have to reach 322 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: out to? Don't think about who you have right now. 323 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: Think about who you've had throughout your entire life, and 324 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: those are the types of people that you can wake 325 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: up those relationships again. And I think when it comes 326 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: to making friends, I really like the idea of rekindling 327 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: old relationships because we're allowed to jump start the friendship process. 328 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 1: And when we wake up an old relationship, because we 329 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 1: already have memories, we already have vulnerability, we already have 330 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: tie together there. These are all the things that deepens 331 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: friendships and makes us more comfortable within them. And so 332 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: I think that can be really good idea for people 333 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,439 Speaker 1: that are just feeling like, oh, I feel so lonely, 334 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: but like there's nobody I can talk to. You that 335 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 1: there's people look back at your at the timeline of 336 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: your life. Who could you have talked to five years ago? 337 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: Who could you have talked to when you're in college, 338 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 1: and take the initiative to reach out and waking up 339 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: those old relationships. And I want to be clear, you're 340 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:01,479 Speaker 1: talking about relationships that ended just because we just stopped talking, 341 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: not where there was active maybe boundary crossing or something 342 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: actually happened. We're talking about people that you just kind 343 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: of like, oh, whatever, happened to that person exactly good. 344 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: So something else that you mentioned that, I think a 345 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 1: lot of people kind of have this question. Is there 346 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 1: a difference between being alone and loneliness? Yes? Yes, and 347 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 1: that is just the emotional balance of the experience. So 348 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 1: does it feel good to us or does it feel 349 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,719 Speaker 1: really bad and really negative to us? And so when 350 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: our isolation is starting to feel bad and bring us 351 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: into a bad mood, then it's going to be something 352 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 1: that's more like loneliness. Mm hmmm. And I often hear 353 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: people talking about having difficulty kind of just tolerating being alone. 354 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: But I don't know if that's the same thing as 355 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 1: a loneliness or if that is something else at play. 356 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: Interesting mm hmm, Yeah, I mean I think that that 357 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: likely happening a lot of different for a lot of 358 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: different reasons. Maybe one is loneliness, but maybe it's also 359 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 1: like a um, not wanting to deal with something else, 360 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: or you know, there could be some other emotional things 361 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 1: going on for people who struggle with like tolerating their 362 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 1: own company so to speak. That's true. I mean, I 363 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,360 Speaker 1: would just encourage people to be curious about, you know, 364 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: what's coming up for you when you're alone? What is 365 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 1: what is hard about it? What feelings are coming up 366 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: for you? Are their memories that are coming up for you? 367 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: Like what exactly is it about the alone time that 368 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: is that is getting to you? So it sounds like 369 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 1: when you talked about like the definition and how like 370 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: the lonely brain kind of tricks us. It sounds like 371 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,719 Speaker 1: it is really about the threat that we will be 372 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: rejected or is the threat something else. I think that 373 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: you're right, you know, on the money, it's this threat 374 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: that we are going to be rejected. And I think 375 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: what it becomes with loneliness is really the threat that 376 00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 1: we are rejectable. Like loneliness lowers are OFLF esteem, it 377 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: lowers our sense of self worth and when it comes 378 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: to overcoming loneliness, this is a technique that I forgot 379 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: to share. But like in the research on on psychological resilience, 380 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: there's three things that make us resilient to situations. One 381 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 1: is we don't personalize it, so we don't take it 382 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: to me, I'm lonely because there is something wrong with me, 383 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 1: because I'm a horrible person, because nobody wants to hang 384 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: out with me. So if you can keep yourself from 385 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: doing that, then you're going to be in a better state. 386 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,719 Speaker 1: The other is prevalence. So prevalence is basically, I'm lonely. 387 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 1: So everything in my life sucks, my job sucks, my 388 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 1: family sucks. It's like it's my Loneliness is basically sinking 389 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 1: into the nix and crannies of everything about my life. 390 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: And so if you can keep yourself from engaging in that, 391 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: that prevalence and being like, Okay, I'm lonely in this 392 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: moment of time, it's going to pass, and there's also 393 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: good things about my life, then that's great. The last 394 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: thing for our psychological resilience is the idea of persistence, 395 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 1: and that's the idea that I'm gonna be lonely now 396 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna stay lonely forever. And so when people 397 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: believe that, it's a lot harder for them to bounce 398 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: back from their experiences. So when it comes to in general, 399 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 1: like trying to be resilient to difficult circumstances, loneliness being 400 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: one of them. I would encourage people to do three 401 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: things related to the three piece, and that's don't take 402 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 1: the loneliness to me that you suck or there's anything 403 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: wrong with you or you know that you you are 404 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: a deficient or you know that you aren't worthy. We 405 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: are all lonely right now. The second thing is, even 406 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 1: though you may be feeling lonely, there's also probably other 407 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 1: things about your life they are going right, whether that's 408 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: you know, your health or your job, or you have 409 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 1: a close thread or someone in your life they care 410 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 1: about that cares about you. And the other is really 411 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 1: remembering this is not, you know, a persistent state, This 412 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,959 Speaker 1: is not our normal state. Feeling like you're going through 413 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: a lot of loneliness right now doesn't mean that it's 414 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,400 Speaker 1: gonna last forever. And at some point this is gonna 415 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 1: let us for us all. Oh, I love that, and 416 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: you know I love a good alliteration, the three piece. 417 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: So something else that I think, um, I've heard community 418 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 1: members talk about is feeling lonely even in the midst 419 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: of maybe being sheltering in place with their families. Can 420 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: you speak to a little bit about that, right because 421 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: it's not like you wouldn't think like, oh, you have 422 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: a you're in a house fuld of people, but people 423 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 1: still are experiencing a loneliness. Can you talk a little 424 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 1: bit about that? Yeah, certainly, there's like there's definitely a 425 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 1: strand of threat of loneliness, that is, you know, being 426 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: loneliness around the company of others. And in some ways, 427 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: I think that form of loneliness is even harder because 428 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: when we see other beings, we assume that we're going 429 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,719 Speaker 1: to feel more connected or close to people, and so 430 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,360 Speaker 1: it's it's this sort of contrast that reminds us, Wow, 431 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: I'm really lonely. Even though other people around me, I 432 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: still feel lonely. And so I think there's this way 433 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: that loneliness actually is a way of feeling misunderstood, Like 434 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: being misunderstood is a form of loneliness. And as I 435 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: tell deep into the research, Dr Right, I also realized 436 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:07,439 Speaker 1: that being kind of touch with yourself, feeling inauthentic is 437 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,479 Speaker 1: also a lonely state, Like if you don't feel like 438 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 1: you're in situations where you can express the truth of 439 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: who you are, where you feel comfortable, where you feel 440 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 1: like you're really you, like that lack of authenticity, that 441 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: in authenticity, Like that's one of the ways that the 442 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 1: sort of lonely in a crowded room phenomenon manifest for us. Mmmm, yeah, 443 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 1: it's likely, I mean and it's likely some of that 444 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,679 Speaker 1: threat that you're talking about playing out right, Like, can 445 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: I really share this part of myself with these people 446 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 1: even though they're in my house together and I would 447 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: expect that I could be close with them. Yeah, I mean, 448 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 1: I'm sure. Yeah, the lonely brain is probably not helping 449 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: the lonely in a crowded room phenomenon. It's just, you know, 450 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: it's just like depression, where it's the real, the real 451 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 1: sad part of the tragic part of it is like, 452 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 1: not only is it a hard state to go through, 453 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: but it literally takes away all of the resources that 454 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: we have to get out of it. And so that 455 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 1: brings me to another tip for getting over your loneliness. 456 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: Plan for your loneliness, or you are lonely. So if 457 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: you're like my partner is gonna be away this weekend, 458 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 1: I am going to have a house to myself, or 459 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: you know, I know that I tend to get lonely 460 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: right before bed when you're it's during the daytime, when 461 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: you're you know, when you're I don't know, having your 462 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: zoom calls and feeling a little bit more connected. Put 463 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: time in your scanual for later on when you're gonna 464 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: be lonely to find time to connect with people, because 465 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: when you're in the state of loneliness, the way that 466 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: the lonely brain works, it's just gonna make it really 467 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: hard for you to reach out when you need it 468 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:38,439 Speaker 1: the most. So that's a really good point, Dr Franco. 469 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: And something that I think that is going to be 470 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: unique about the time that we're living in now is 471 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 1: that so many of us, I think, are just feeling 472 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 1: so fatigued with the zoom calls right, because it feels 473 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: like you're on it for work, then we're on it 474 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: for school, then we have happy hours on zoom right, 475 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: birthday parties, and so I think a lot of it 476 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:05,360 Speaker 1: is so much, so much Zoe, and so I think, 477 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,439 Speaker 1: you know, for a lot of people, they're kind of 478 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 1: like hitting a wall in terms of like, Okay, if 479 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: I have to do this for work, it feels like 480 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: I really don't want to be on camera on a 481 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: call anymore to connect. Are there other things that you 482 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,479 Speaker 1: might suggest for people who are just kind of feeling 483 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 1: fatigue with all of the you know, zooming that we're 484 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: having to do. There are a few things that I 485 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: would suggest. I mean, I was reading this New York 486 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: Times article, and it was about how like zoom actually 487 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,160 Speaker 1: fatiguous because of the slowness and feedback makes it, our 488 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: brain use more energy to process other people's faces. We 489 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: don't get the sort of automatic reaction from other people 490 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: in the same way, and that like basically is very 491 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: cumbersome for our brain. So even like switching to a 492 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 1: phone call may be helpful. But one other point that 493 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: I want to make is that you know, for me, 494 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 1: I have my partner staying with me. I feel very 495 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: lucky to have my partner with me. But we'll spend 496 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 1: hours watching Netflix together and I will feel I won't 497 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: feel connected, Like it's we're next to each other, we 498 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: have shared a couch. We don't necessarily feel connected to 499 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: each other. That's why I want to say, um that 500 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 1: it's not necessarily about spending time with each other, but 501 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,199 Speaker 1: it's about how we connect. Like, you want to connect 502 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: in particular types of ways that make you feel close 503 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,880 Speaker 1: and connected to other people. And so even if that's 504 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 1: over zoom, it's gonna make the zoom a little less 505 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: exhausting if you connect in particular types of ways that 506 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: are deep and replenishing. And so I'm actually releasing a 507 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,399 Speaker 1: series on YouTube. It's called The Connection School, where I 508 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 1: take people through different ways connect more deeply. Yeah, yeah, 509 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 1: but those are those are things like just I guess 510 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: first peak, like um, being really vulnerable with people. If 511 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 1: you're like talking to your friends and you're not actually 512 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,880 Speaker 1: sharing if you're struggling with something, or the how hard 513 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: this is for you, If you're trying to pretend that 514 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,400 Speaker 1: everything is all right right now, then you are robbing 515 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: yourself of the ability to feel connected and to feel 516 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: seen and also to get support, right because if people 517 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: don't know you're going through stuff, and then they're not 518 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,479 Speaker 1: gonna be able to pride you with support. And so 519 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: part of what I would recommend is like, so if 520 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 1: you're not telling people how you're really feeling, you're robbing 521 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: your relationships in two ways. One is the experiences of 522 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: vulnerability makes us feel close to people. It makes us 523 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 1: feel connected to people. It is what takes away our 524 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,400 Speaker 1: sense of loneliness. When we are more vulnerable, then you're 525 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,959 Speaker 1: more likely to get something out of an interaction that 526 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: makes us feel more connected. And the other ways that 527 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,439 Speaker 1: it robs our relationships and our feelings of closeness is 528 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: that if people don't know we're going through something, they're 529 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,679 Speaker 1: not able to support us. And getting that sense of 530 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: support is also part of what makes us feel connected. 531 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: And so what I really want to suggest that people 532 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: is like, be really honest about your struggles with the 533 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: people that you're close to you right now, Like this 534 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,120 Speaker 1: is not the time to, you know, try to pretend 535 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: that everything is okay. The second thing that I want 536 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: to just suggest to people is the power of reminiscing. 537 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 1: And this occurred to me. I was talking to my 538 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: friends I've lived in Trinidad and Tobago when we were 539 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: talking about our trip there and all the fun we 540 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 1: had and Trindad today go there's like parties into the 541 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 1: morning and they're called like breakfast sets, and we're just 542 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,400 Speaker 1: reminiscing about all of that, and I just felt so good, 543 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: and I realized that, like you don't have to travel physically, 544 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: you can travel mentally too. Even though we can't leave 545 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: our walls, we can travel across time by like reminiscing 546 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 1: about different experiences with people. And when I looked into 547 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: the research, it actually found that reminiscing is an effective 548 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 1: intervention that has been found to combat loneliness. One thing. 549 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: And the other thing that I found is reminiscing actually 550 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 1: makes us more resilient to stress. So there's this interesting 551 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: study where they had people stick their hands in ice 552 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: cold water and then they were given the opportunity to reminisce, 553 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: and then, um, they felt less cortisol, which is like 554 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: the stress for moment we all have. And so reminiscing 555 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: makes us more resilient. And I think, you know, with 556 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: the ways that this pandemic is probably affecting our mental health, 557 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: I think it's a really good idea and it is 558 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: one way to feel more connected with people. Mmmmm, I 559 00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: love that idea. Yeah, And I think that that is 560 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: also an opportunity, like you mentioned, kind of rekindling quiet 561 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: or sleepy relationships right like that you start thinking about like, oh, 562 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: remember when we had this experience, you know, hope you're 563 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: doing well or something like that. That's yes, I kind 564 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: of wake the relationship up right exactly. So are there 565 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: are other things that we haven't covered that you feel 566 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: like are particularly important for people to know, especially right now? 567 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there is one thing that I wanted to 568 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: say too, and this is like the third method for 569 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: for overcoming loneliness. Books within us and outside of us 570 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: is the idea of focusing on others. Like Honestly, what 571 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: the research finds is that when we focus on others, 572 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: it makes us less lonely. And it also finds that 573 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: when we're lonely, we focus more on ourselves. And so 574 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: being able to check in with other people, ask how 575 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: other people are doing, or even do something kind for 576 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: like your friends, like I don't know, write them an 577 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: email and asked them how you're doing, or give them 578 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: some sort of random acts of kindness like I set 579 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: my friends some um some Ramen soup because I knew 580 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: she was going through a lot. And so actually focusing 581 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: other people like it takes the lens off of ourselves, 582 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 1: and it makes us feel more connected, and it makes 583 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: us feel less lonely. And it's also a way to 584 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: kind of jump over the feelings of like deep vulnerability 585 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: and fear and mistrust that we have of others, Like 586 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: we need to share ourselves, but we also feel like 587 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: other people are going to we're suspiciously. We're more suspicious 588 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: and paramoid about other people because of the lonely brain. 589 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: And so I think a way to like overcome that 590 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: is that if we just focus on other people and 591 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: how they're doing. We don't have to go through that 592 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: threatening process of finding a way to trust people even 593 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: when we're like overcome with the lonely brain. And so 594 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: I think that's also a really great way to overcome 595 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: your sense of loneliness, like just turn your attention to 596 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: other people. And I think from a psychological perspective, it's 597 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: something that I used to talk to clients who recently 598 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: went through breakups, because we know when we go through 599 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: stressful experiences, what it does is it it makes our 600 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: lens on the world very tiny. We are completely absorbed 601 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: in that experience of stress that we're under, and whether 602 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:07,959 Speaker 1: that's loneliness or whatever else, it is like that's what 603 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: threat does to us. And so one way to get 604 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 1: out of that sense of threat is we need to 605 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: expand our world. We need to make a world look 606 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: a lot larger. And usually that's a lot easier because 607 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: I go to the gym in the morning, I go 608 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: to work, I have all these different scenes throughout my day. 609 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: It expands my world. It gets me out of the 610 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: sense that my whole world is this one experience is stressed. 611 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: And so one way that we can sort of expand 612 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: our world, so that stress takes up a tinier portion 613 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: of it. The loneliness takes up the tinier portion of it. 614 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: Is we focus on other people, and we focus on 615 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: being kind to other people, and we focus on what 616 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 1: we can do for other people. And I really love 617 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: that approach because it not only tackles our own loneliness, 618 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: but it tackles another person's loneliness. Like we're helping, We're 619 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: doing two things at once to to stave off loneliness. 620 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: So I think if you're feeling lonely right now, ask yourself, like, 621 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 1: what is something lovely and kind that I can do 622 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: for another person? And that will help you too. I 623 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: love it. I'll still think that it's a nice call 624 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: to action for other people to make sure you know, 625 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: of course, we are all trying to survive this thing 626 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: and you know, trying to be okay. But I also 627 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 1: think that when you have the bandwidth, it is important 628 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: to kind of think about who am my circle? Haven't 629 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: I heard from? Right because what you've described is that 630 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: people may need to reach out but may have difficulty 631 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: doing that right now. So when you do have a 632 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: little bit of bandwidth, thinking about, Okay, who haven't I 633 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: heard from in a while? Who can I just let 634 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: know that I'm thinking about them, which might didn't give 635 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 1: the opportunity for somebody else to say, hey, I'm not 636 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: feeling rejected because this person reached out to me exactly, 637 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: Like knowing that is our motivation to check it on 638 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: people even more. And you know, loneliness is contagious from 639 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: one person to another, but so is joy. And I 640 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: think this is not a time to straight jack at 641 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: your joy, Like if you are feeling joyful, I send 642 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 1: videos as to my friends like, hey, I'm in a 643 00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: good mood right now because the may B and c 644 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: Like this is the time to share your sense of 645 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: joy because I think you know, I bought a house 646 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: through this whole process and I posted about it on Twitter, 647 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't know if I want 648 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: to post about this because it feels like joy is 649 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 1: like I don't know, it's like, um disrespecting or blast 650 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: blasphemous towards all of the sorrow. But I realized that 651 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 1: like joy is not the opposite side of sorrow, you 652 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: can experience both at the same time. And for me, 653 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: this experience of joy was softening the blow of the 654 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: sorrow instead of undermining it. And so I think like 655 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: you can also, like I don't know, spread love, spread affirmation. 656 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: If You're in a good mood and you feel like 657 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: I'm feeling so much love for my friend right now, 658 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: like tell them, like spread that out throughout your network. 659 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: I love it. I love that, Dr Franco. So you 660 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: mentioned that the YouTube series is starting. Is the first 661 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: episode up now or is there somewhere we can like 662 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 1: be ready to follow? Yes, Um, you can look up 663 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 1: Dr bors and g Franco as YouTube for my Connection School. 664 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: It's gonna take you to a few weeks that you 665 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 1: could spend with your friends and activities that you can 666 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: do to deepen your relationship. And um, I also have 667 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: a newsletter. Uh so if you go to Dr Marrissa 668 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: g Franco dot com, you will find you'll be able 669 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 1: to sign up for my newsletter I share if you're 670 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: fascinated or as I am, with the research on connection 671 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,240 Speaker 1: and you'll get a little bit of it every month. Um, 672 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 1: you can follow me on Instagram or on Twitter. Dr 673 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,719 Speaker 1: Marrissa g Franco d R M A R I S 674 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:29,399 Speaker 1: A T f r A n c O. And yeah, 675 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: I just wanted to send like empathy and love to 676 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: everybody right now, and you know, remind you if you're 677 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 1: feeling lonely, it's it's it's not you. And I just 678 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,360 Speaker 1: really hope that some of these these tips and tricks 679 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 1: and these understandings can really help folks deal with something 680 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 1: that feels so inevitable. But it's such an active love 681 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: to like distance ourselves from other people right now. Absolutely, 682 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 1: Dr Franco, And of course we will include all of 683 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: that in the show notes. Are there any other books 684 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 1: or resources you will suggest people to check out related 685 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: to this? Yeah, so there's a new book called I 686 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: think it's called Together. I think it's His name is 687 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 1: d bec Murphy. He was like, oh, yeah, I read 688 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: his book. I think he has a lot of good 689 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: and helpful insights on like staying connected at this time. 690 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: So right, I would add that to my list from 691 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:19,319 Speaker 1: okay perfect, Yes, And like I said, if you missed 692 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: her first episode, then this is a perfect time to 693 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: go back and listen to that one because you shared 694 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: lots and lots of great information. Thank you, You're welcome. Well, 695 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 1: thank you again for joining us today, Dr Franco. I 696 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 1: really appreciate it. Always happy to be here. I'm so 697 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,799 Speaker 1: glad Dr Franco was able to join us again this week. 698 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 1: Don't forget to visit the show notes at Therapy for 699 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash Session one fifty six to 700 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,839 Speaker 1: get connected to Dr Franco's YouTube page, are to check 701 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 1: out the resources she shared, and please share your takeaways 702 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 1: with us on social media using the hashtag tb G 703 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 1: in session. And don't forget to share this episode with 704 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,359 Speaker 1: others in your life who might enjoy it. If you're 705 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: looking for a virtual therapist in your area, be sure 706 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,479 Speaker 1: to check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black 707 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 1: Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want to 708 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: continue digging into this topic and connect with some other 709 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,839 Speaker 1: sisters in your area, come on over and join us 710 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: in the Yellow Couch Collective, where we take a deeper 711 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 1: dive into the topics from the podcast and just about 712 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,479 Speaker 1: everything else. You can join us at Therapy for Black 713 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 1: Girls dot com slash y c C. Don't forget to 714 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: show our sponsors some love by going to helix Sleep 715 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 1: dot com slash Therapy for Black Girls to get up 716 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 1: to two hundred dollars off your mattress order and two 717 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 1: free pillows. Thank you all so much for joining me 718 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 1: again this week. I look forward to continue in this 719 00:36:47,120 --> 00:37:03,279 Speaker 1: conversation with you all real soon. Take it care. N 720 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: b wop Wop Wood