1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vanderkam. I'm a mother of four, 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah hart Hunger. 3 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,799 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, practicing physician and blogger. On 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: the side, we are two working parents who love our 5 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode one hundred and sixteen. 11 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: Today we're going to be interviewing Masha Saunders, who is 12 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: a accountant with PwC. She is also married to a 13 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,959 Speaker 1: diplomat who is stationed abroad, and they're going to talk 14 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: about how they raise their family, a toddler daughter, given 15 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: that the parents are in different locations, so definitely a 16 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: complicated family situation, but one that they are managing to 17 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,479 Speaker 1: make work. So we're excited to talk about that now. 18 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: Of course, part of being in a different country than 19 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: your spouse is you wind up with some solo weekends. 20 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: Sarah also winds up with some solo weekends, right, see you, 21 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: I think very often maybe solo saturdays. No, yeah, but lucky. 22 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: The weekends are almost never that, but there have been. 23 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: I mean there have been many weeks like during the 24 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: work week, but but the weekends is less like although, 25 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: as we are recording this in late September, I will 26 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: have a weekend without Michael because he's going to a 27 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: Texas A and M game with some extended family. But 28 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: that's nice. Our husband should have fun. I keep telling 29 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: Josh to like take because I did go on a 30 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: girl's weekend, so I do feel like it's sort of 31 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: fair for him to go do some I don't know, 32 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: guitar retreat or something, but he hasn't yet taken me 33 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: up on the offer. Yeah, well you don't have to 34 00:01:55,800 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: push it, Jasons. He listens to this podcas. Yeah, so 35 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: you know, how do you how do you plan your 36 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 1: solo weekend, Sarah? I you know, I have one coming up. 37 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: And by the way, Stalkers, we record this ahead of time, 38 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: so like, when you hear this, don't assume that I'm 39 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: going to be alone all weekend. And you can we 40 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: don't have the Stoker's listening to them. But just in case, 41 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: so as we're taping this, we do have one coming up. 42 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: Usually I'm pretty good about doing a lot of play 43 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: dates and kind of filling the time with things. I 44 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: haven't scheduled too much this time, but I do have 45 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,359 Speaker 1: a general template. I do have actually on my Instagram 46 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: if anybody's curious, there was one weekend that I was 47 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: solo and I was like, I'm going to document this 48 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: in stories. What you know what a typical weekend at 49 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: home looks like. So if you're if you're curious, I 50 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: believe it's it's under weekend or weekend two or something 51 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: like that in my stories. But usually I try to 52 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: work out in the mornings, which I do not do 53 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: like well, I let me take that back. So normally 54 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: I might work out like at nine or ten am, 55 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:01,119 Speaker 1: or we might go or a family run or something 56 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: all together. But if I'm solo, that's not going to 57 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: be an option. So I do get up early, just 58 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: like I do during the week, or at least I 59 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 1: try to if I'm not too tired, because I do 60 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: feel like if I can get that in the rest 61 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: of the day just goes better. So I try to 62 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: do that. Sometimes I have babysitters. Now, we had a 63 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: great one over the summer, but she went back to college, 64 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: so unfortunately I am back in finding a babysitter mode. 65 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: And I do have on Saturday a high school babysitter 66 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: that came recommended that's going to do sort of a 67 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: little triout stint, So that will kind of take some 68 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: time and we'll see how that goes. And the kids 69 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: have basketball games, which is going to be logistically very hard, 70 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: but I think my husband actually will leave work to 71 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: help with at least some of the driving for that. 72 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: And then usually I try to do kind of one 73 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: low maintenance anchor event a day, like I'm not gonna 74 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: be the cool mom who takes her kids to like 75 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: I don't know, it drives two hours to Lego Land 76 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: or something like that, and even the zoo, like that's 77 00:03:58,000 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: a little much. I could do it with two, but 78 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: three it's just like that's far. But I'll pick a 79 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: local museum or we'll do the playground to meet up 80 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: with another family, because I do find that engineering in 81 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: some adult interaction is key for me to prevent me 82 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: from going a little crazy. Yeah, well, having an extra 83 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: set of hands for part of the time is really, 84 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: I mean, just helpful in general. And I think if 85 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: anyone is facing this situation, not something you should ever 86 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: remotely feel guilty about. My mom is actually going to 87 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: be around for this weekend when I've got the four kids, 88 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: partly because logistically it just doesn't work, Like my eldest 89 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 1: is going to a bar mitzvah, like somebody needs to 90 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 1: pick him up at eleven o'clock at night. Like I'm 91 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,559 Speaker 1: not going to put Alex in the car at eleven 92 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: o'clock at night to go get him. So I mean 93 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: it's terrible. Oh my goodness, yes, yeah, So I mean 94 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: what am I like my choices? I tell my kid 95 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: he can't go, I've got her, or arrange a carpool, 96 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: which I guess I could have done. Age can kids 97 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: start ubering? Well, that's you know, it's a good question. 98 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 1: I'm sure we have some opinions about on that among 99 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: our listeners. And I'm also going to an Eagles game 100 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,039 Speaker 1: with Sam for his birthday, so yeah, that's something we 101 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: need coverage for anyway. So yeahs always good to have 102 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: the extra set of hands. But we'll hear about how 103 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: Masha handles that. Sarah and I are delighted to welcome 104 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:28,559 Speaker 1: Masha Saunders to the program today. Masha, can you introduce yourself? Sure, 105 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,359 Speaker 1: thank you for having me. I'm really excited to share 106 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 1: my story. My name is Masha Saunders. I'm from a 107 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: suburb of Washington, d C. I'm a mom of a 108 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: fourteen month old, a runner. I'm also a manager at 109 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: the Peter Boucy McLain office here in Virginia. My husband 110 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: is a diplomat with the US government. He has been 111 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: working in the Balkans for the past two years, and 112 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,919 Speaker 1: this means basically that his job requires him to be 113 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: abroad for most of the time. Yeah, it turns out 114 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: that if you are a diplomat somewhere, you're generally supposed 115 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: to be that place. It's harder job to do from remotely, right. Yeah, 116 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: But a lot of people assume that if you have 117 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: a spouse who's in the foreign service, or a spouse 118 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: in the military, for instance, it can be really hard 119 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: for you to build a career precisely because of the 120 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: moving around aspect of it. You know, why is that 121 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: the narrative out there and why was that something that 122 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: you didn't actually buy into? Well, I think the narrative 123 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: is because it's actually hard for spouses of diplomats, whether 124 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: they're male or female, to find jobs abroad. In some instances, 125 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: the laws prohibit them from working in the local economy, 126 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: or there are no local jobs that would be a 127 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: good fit for their skill set. The embassies abroad typically 128 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: have some positions that are open for spouses. In my case, 129 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: it was not a good option just for me personally. 130 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: It does work for some people, it doesn't work for others. 131 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: And then the reason why we decided to have the 132 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: lifestyle that we have is actually well, first of all, 133 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: we both of us love to travel, and we thought 134 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: it would be a good opportunity to go to places 135 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: that we would not otherwise go. The second reason is 136 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: that my husband and I are both very focused in 137 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: our careers and I really love my job at Peter 138 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: bluc As I said, I work at Peter BC. I 139 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: think I have a good career trajectory that I didn't 140 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: want to give up. Yeah, and you're I don't think 141 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: we mentioned to our listeners yet. You are recording this 142 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: from abroad, correct, right right exactly, You're you're able to Actually, 143 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: I want I want you to talk more about the 144 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: logistics of that you're able to move your work remotely 145 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: when you need to, but also spend that time in 146 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: the home office when that's necessary as well. Exactly. Yes, 147 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: that's the benefit. I guess that's really wonderful. And I 148 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: suppose before you guys had kids, this was you know, 149 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: probably complex, but but maybe less complex, right, Yes, it 150 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: was much easier and just logistically because we could use 151 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: our vacation some a combination of remote wark holidays, and 152 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: it was just much easier to travel when we didn't 153 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: have our daughter. But you guys decided that this was 154 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: something you wanted to pursue. Can you talk a little 155 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: bit about your you know, journey of having your daughter. 156 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: And I want to mention here that one of the 157 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: things I loved about masha story is she ran through 158 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: her whole pregnant day, every single day, right, yes, Laura, 159 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: just like you, And I think you actually were the 160 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:14,079 Speaker 1: one who inspired me to do the run streak, which 161 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: lasted slightly over a year and right until the day 162 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: my daughter was born, which is which is impressive. Did 163 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: you run on the day you delivered and then didn't 164 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: run the day after or it was so my last 165 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: run was on Sunday and then I gave birth on Monday. Gotcha, gotcha? Well, 166 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: that is incredibly impressive. I am, I am in aw 167 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: I don't I think you know? I've often trailed off 168 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: at the end and then and then maybe I think 169 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: Sarah and I both like the last, and then I 170 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: pick it back to get out of me, right, and 171 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: then I run when you like, please come. Well, I 172 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: should mention that my daughter was born one month early, 173 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: quite unexpected, Lisa, maybe did induce labor, Yeah, I doubt it, 174 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: but maybe you're just like mildly less uncomfortable in eight 175 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: months versus nine. But right, and since your daughter's Bertha, 176 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 1: I mean you when we talked earlier, Masha, you've told 177 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: me about all the ways you've made time to gather 178 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 1: as a family, which is both you know, attestament to 179 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 1: the paternity policies of the US State Department to the 180 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: flexibility of PwC. Like why don't you, why don't you 181 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: talk about how you've made this work? Right, So, both 182 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: of us, of course plan to spend as much time 183 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: together as possible, but the old we also had to 184 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: accept that there will be some degree of separation, and 185 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: there will be quite a bit of traveling involved, and 186 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: also that we would have to ask our employers for 187 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: flexibility both on my end and on my husband's end, 188 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: and so the option and I want to emphasize that 189 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: the option of just working remotely full time for either 190 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: of us did not work because both of our jobs 191 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: obviously require our presence. I work with clients. My husband 192 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: is a diplomat, so he needs to be in the 193 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: country where he's working, so this was not a good option. 194 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: So we basically sat down with our employers and were 195 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: very open and honest about our family situation and worked 196 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: out a plan to make it work. So in my case, 197 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: I sat down with the partners I work for PETERWC 198 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 1: and we we essentially drafted a plan through the end 199 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: of my husband's tour in the Balkans, which involved a 200 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: combination of remote work, full time work in the US, 201 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: vacation holidays, unpaid leaves, a bad go and everything in between. 202 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: And I was also I decided that I would be 203 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: using my sabbatical time and leave time to spend time 204 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: with my family and also wrap up my CPA exams, 205 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 1: which would help me to further progress in my career. 206 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: And you actually gave birth in the right your husband 207 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: was able to come over. I did for a while. 208 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 1: I did, yep. And I am just impressed at the 209 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: level of organizing that this must take. But it's funny 210 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: because probably a lot of people with more traditional setups 211 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 1: could benefit from this level of granularity about different forms 212 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: of work, right, And I just think it's it's a 213 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: great example of the power of planning. Thank you as usual. 214 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: How many times? How many times have you flown across 215 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: the Atlantic with your daughter at this point? So I 216 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:03,439 Speaker 1: think it's been at least ten and she's fourteen months 217 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: right now, so she's been on the plane quite a lot. 218 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: We also travel for our own family reasons, for vacations 219 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 1: and such, so yeah, she's been on the plane quite 220 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: a bit. Awesome. Well, we will be right back in 221 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 1: just a minute or so. We're going to take a 222 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: quick break to hear from one of our sponsors listeners. 223 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 1: If you're running a business, you know that hiring isn't 224 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: as simple as putting an ad in the paper or 225 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: posting to a job board. 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We also 240 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: want to remind you about better Help. Is there something 241 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: that interferes with your happiness or is preventing you from 242 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: achieving your goals? Better help online counseling is there for you. 243 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: You can connect with your professional counselor in a safe 244 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: and private online environment. So it's so convenient for people 245 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,239 Speaker 1: who are working and raising families and want to prioritize 246 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: their mental health. Get help on your own time and 247 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: at your own pace. You can schedule secure video or 248 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: phone sessions, plus chat and text with your therapist. 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Go to betterhelp dot com slash 258 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: best up. Simply fill out a questionnaire to help them 259 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: assess your needs and get matched with a counselor you'll love. 260 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: That's betterhelp dot Com slash best of All. Right, so 261 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: Maja you are You guys are a crossing the ocean 262 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: all the time, but most of the time your daughter 263 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: lives with you in Virginia. Correct. That's sort of the 264 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: default of what you guys have set up, and so 265 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: you you know, yeah, the interesting thing about this is, 266 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: I mean a lot of people who work for major 267 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: accounting firms who have their partners around, you know, have 268 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: logistical challenges with the travel hours, the busy season, things 269 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: like that. So how do you make it work? Like, 270 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: what is your support system for raising a toddler wall 271 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: in many cases being the solo parent for big chunks 272 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: of time. So my strategy is asking for help a 273 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: lot from family, friends, and also outsourcing as much as possible. 274 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: I think I actually learned a lot of these strategies 275 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: from the podcast. Again, so thank you. But when our 276 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: daughter was born, we helped my family move closer to us, 277 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: and my mom stayed with us actually for a while 278 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: at least for the first six weeks to help us 279 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: take care of the baby. Then as we were traveling 280 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: back and forth. She has been essentially our primary childcare, 281 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: especially for the first sick to eight months. I think 282 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,199 Speaker 1: we also have when we are abroad, we have a 283 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 1: full time nanny who comes nine till five during the 284 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: week and sometimes on weekends to work with us. She's fantastic. 285 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: We love her, and when my mom is not available 286 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: when we are in the US, we just ask our 287 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 1: friends to help. I send out a request to my 288 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: group of close friends and we work out a schedule. 289 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: It does require some planning, but then it helps me 290 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: have at least one hour day or some some time 291 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 1: to run errands or do shopping or whatever I need 292 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: to do, and you manage to get your workouts in 293 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: because I understand that you're still you're still running the 294 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: streak stopped for a bit, but right, yes, it does, 295 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: and it actually helped me manage stress. That's one of 296 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:07,199 Speaker 1: my tools to manage stress and manage anxiety because I 297 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,479 Speaker 1: do get tired, Like I admit that I don't have 298 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,479 Speaker 1: a magic pill. So I try to get out at 299 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: least for ten minutes, even if it's on a treadmill 300 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: or if I run outside. But yeah, I try to exercise. Yeah, 301 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: when you are solo, is the trend? Like what are 302 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: your specific strategies? Because that's when I find. The only 303 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: way I can really do workouts if I'm by myself 304 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 1: is to do them very early in the morning, which 305 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: on the weekends is sort of painful because it's like, oh, 306 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: that would have been my chance to sleep. So what 307 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: do you do? What are your go to secrets? Or 308 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: do you use naptime? If I am by myself, I 309 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: either use nap time or run early in the morning. 310 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 1: At home, we have a treadmill at home. And so 311 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: I use that. Sometimes I do a quick session of 312 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: pilate's at home, also early in the morning when my 313 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: daughter is sleeping, or again I just use my ask 314 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: my friends to help to come and help and sit 315 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: be at home for an hour while I'm running outside 316 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: or going to a PILATEUS class. That's great. Yeah, it 317 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 1: really does take a village. And I'm curious. You know, 318 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,120 Speaker 1: this is probably not easy on your husband either. I mean, 319 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: most of the time he's not doing the solo parenting 320 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: aspect of it. But you know, nobody likes to be 321 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,919 Speaker 1: away from their family for big chunks of time either, 322 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: and being abroad without your family for big chunks of 323 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: time is probably very lonely. So I'm curious how he 324 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: feels about it and how he sees this shaking out 325 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: long term. So we both understand that this may not 326 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: work long term. Right, So we take this lifestyle for now, 327 00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: but we realize that later on he may take job 328 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:05,919 Speaker 1: in DC that option is available, or we could do 329 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: a tour with my job somewhere in another country. That 330 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 1: option is also available. Right now, of course, he tries 331 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: to see us as much as possible. It's been working 332 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: great with my employer and the flexibility that I have 333 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:30,360 Speaker 1: been getting from them. And my husband also tries to 334 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: plan his travel schedule for the time when we're in 335 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: the US, So if he has to go for training 336 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: or some work related trip to the US, he tries 337 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: to plan it for the time when we're there. That 338 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. And you had mentioned something 339 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: earlier about taking a sabbatical, which is something that some 340 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: employers offered. Maybe not many, but certainly some do. How 341 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: did you find out about this and how did you 342 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 1: negotiate to do this? So we have two types of 343 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: sabbaticals at Peter BLUs See. One is a milestone sabbatical 344 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: that people get when they get promoted to director. In 345 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: my case, I negotiated a non milestone sabbatical that was 346 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: also available. I learned about it from our internal newsletter. 347 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: I just read some stories of people who took advantage 348 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 1: of it, and I thought, oh, it might be a 349 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: great option for me, and so I approached my partners 350 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 1: and we talked about it and I told them that 351 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: I could use it for my CPA studies and it 352 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 1: worked out. Yeah, that is awesome, And along I'm just curious, like, so, 353 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: what does that mean like three months, Like, what are 354 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 1: the logistics of us? Sorry, I'm nosys of a sabbatical 355 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: if you can share, Usually, I think it is six weeks, 356 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: but I think for non milestone it's up to four weeks. 357 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: But I'm not exactly certain. I worked out a schedule 358 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:09,239 Speaker 1: of three and a half months on a sabbatical, but 359 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: I'm not sure what other people make it. No. I 360 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 1: had to ask because you know, of course people think 361 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 1: of academia and professors and I'm picturing you like the 362 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: entire year off and I'm like, no opportunities, But you know, 363 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: it's all a matter of figuring out adding various time 364 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: that you can you can spend different places. Oh yeah, 365 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 1: that sounds awesome. And what advice do you have for 366 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,679 Speaker 1: other families considering this? Like if somebody is listening to 367 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: this and it's like, well, you know, my husband's career 368 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,440 Speaker 1: military officer, my partners in the foreign service or something 369 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,439 Speaker 1: like that, and they are, you know, oriented toward their 370 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: own career as well, Like, what advice do you have 371 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,360 Speaker 1: for families looking at this situation. I think you have 372 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: to be very creative and do a lot of planning, 373 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: potentially some short term planning. Because it's a lot easier 374 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: to say no to something if you have to plan 375 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: one year, even three years ahead. So maybe think in 376 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: chunks of three months or six months at a time 377 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 1: and see what could what options you could combine. Could 378 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 1: it be part time work or sabbatical of full time 379 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: remote work, or running your own business or something else. Yeah, 380 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 1: great advice. And I wonder if you could talk through 381 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: a day in the life. Our listeners always like to 382 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: hear you know how your days go. So you know 383 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,479 Speaker 1: today you're you're in the Balkans as we're recording this. 384 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: So what did a day there look like for you? You 385 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:40,920 Speaker 1: You mean when I'm abroad? Yeah, well like today? What's 386 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: what does today look like for you? Yeah? So if 387 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: I'm if I'm abroad, I typically work US hours. That 388 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: means that the second part of my day is usually 389 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: work devoted to my work, and so I have free 390 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: time time in the morning. So I usually get up 391 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: around five or five thirty. My husband and I alternate 392 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 1: and feeding our daughter and getting her back into her 393 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 1: crib for a nap. After that, I usually do my 394 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: CBA studying. I do a quick pilates session around seven, 395 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,439 Speaker 1: have breakfast, kind of get ready for the day, potentially 396 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: do some studying or reading, Cooke breakfast for our daughter, 397 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,959 Speaker 1: and then our nanny comes at around nine. Sometimes I 398 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: spend time sometime with the nanny to kind of help 399 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 1: help her out with meal planning or maybe things that 400 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: we need to think about for my daughter. Sometimes we 401 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: play together with my daughter, and then my daughter is 402 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: obviously with the name and I either do some CPA 403 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: studying again or catch up on some work or run 404 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: errands until about one or two PM, half quick lunch, 405 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: and around two I usually start my work day if 406 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: that's the day when I am working, and then my 407 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 1: husband gets home at around five, he takes over and 408 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 1: he usually takes our daughter for a walk or sometime outside. 409 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: Around seven, we put her to bed either one of 410 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 1: us and I just continue working throughout the evening, which 411 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 1: means that sometimes we don't get dinner together. We try 412 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,199 Speaker 1: to find at least maybe one evening a week to 413 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: do dinner together at home. We typically do not do 414 00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: evening dates or ask our nanny to babysit in the evening, 415 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: and instead we do a long run on Sundays and 416 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: a coffee or brunch afterwards, and so my evening typically 417 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: ends at around ten, and that's when the lights go 418 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: out exactly. That is that's so unusual. You have like 419 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,119 Speaker 1: a very interesting kind of flipped schedule. But it's like 420 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: all the essential pieces are there. That's so fascinating. Right 421 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:25,679 Speaker 1: did we say where you were by the way, or 422 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: you were allowed to say where you are? You don't 423 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: have to said it in the Balkans perfect, So there's 424 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,360 Speaker 1: a significant So we'll say there's a significant time difference, 425 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 1: which is probably why it's better for you to be 426 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: working later there because then you're right, you know, with 427 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: the US risday. Right, So cool, very cool? Well, Masha, 428 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: we always end with our love of the week, which is, 429 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 1: you know something that's really cool for us in any 430 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: given week, Sarah and I can go first to give 431 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: you a minute to think about it. Okay, so Sarah, 432 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: what do you Sarah's you know, a perpetual favorite, so predictable. 433 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: But like I finally got my hopeonichi package and how 434 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: do I not mention it? Right? It came in the 435 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: mail and I ordered this covered that has a beautiful 436 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: picture of a leak. It's like a photo image taken 437 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: by this photographer, Hiroshi Hatano, and it is as beautiful 438 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: in person as I imagined it to be, so I'm 439 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: super happy with my purchase. Awesome. Well, I'm going to 440 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 1: say that my love of the week is Evite, which 441 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: is one of these old school, you know, online products 442 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 1: that you send out invitations to birthday parties. But in 443 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: the fall I always wind up doing, you know, a 444 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 1: couple birthday parties with the way my kids birthdays fall, 445 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: and it's just so easy to like plug in you know, 446 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 1: the info and all their classmates email address from the 447 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,680 Speaker 1: directory from last year because we never have the directory 448 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 1: in time for us to do for this year. But 449 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: I said, there's some slew thing going on, but I, 450 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: you know, can just send it out and that manages it. 451 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: And you know, it's one of these wonders of the 452 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: Internet that not having to manage rs vps that we 453 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 1: take for granted now. But it's still really cool, Masha, 454 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,199 Speaker 1: how about you. So first thing that I have to 455 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: mention that, Sarah, I also ordered how Bonico planner. It 456 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: has not arrived yet, but it's I'm very excited, but 457 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: it's not my love of the week okay yet yet. 458 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 1: So my love of the week I already mentioned it's 459 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: actually a Sunday long run with my husband and a 460 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: coffee of brunch afterwards. That sounds really awesome. Nice, I 461 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: know we got to I would love to be able 462 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: to figure out how to do that again, but either 463 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: I'd have to trade off church, which you know is 464 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: something I would have singing now, so I do. And 465 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: then Saturday we always seem to have kid athletic activities. 466 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: We'd have to figure out how to you know, have 467 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: somebody else drive for those or something right right, But yeah, no, 468 00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: that sounds really My problem is my husband runs too fast, 469 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: I mean very fast. All right. Well, Masha, thank you 470 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: so much for joining us. This has been awesome. Thank you. 471 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: All right, So our question this week also comes from 472 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: a listener who's dealing with a situation with a spouse 473 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: with long hours or another situation that prevents them from 474 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: being physically present. In this case, she says she is 475 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: struggling to strike an equitable balance with my partner at home. 476 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: My husband and I are new parents to a six 477 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: month old boy and both have demanding careers. She's in 478 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: a leadership position at a growing tech company, and he 479 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 1: is a fourth year associate at a corporate law firm. 480 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: She says. Her challenge is this, My husband's hours are 481 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: extremely difficult. He often works straight through from ten am 482 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: to two am, sometimes either even later. It's rare we 483 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 1: have an uninterrupted weekend or vacation. We also have an 484 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: hour and forty five minute commute to NYC. He goes 485 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,479 Speaker 1: without saying that there isn't much time to ask him 486 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: to help more at home, But right now I'm getting 487 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: crushed at work and managing everything for our son. Husband 488 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: offers to cover the morning so I can have some 489 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: time to myself, but it's hard to ask him to 490 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: do that when he's been up late at night. She says. 491 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: She usually goes to bed early. Even if I delegate 492 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:10,719 Speaker 1: tasks when he has a few free minutes during the day, 493 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: he ends up asking so many questions that it takes 494 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: more time than if I had just done it myself. 495 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: Although she says, don't get me wrong, I'd be frustrated 496 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: if he didn't do it exactly the way I wanted. 497 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 1: Why Katie read my mind, ha ha ha. All right, 498 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: there's one last factor in our dynamic, which is that 499 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: I actually contribute more financially, though in the long term 500 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 1: she thinks he will likely surpass her, but right now 501 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: it adds to the resentment. They are relatively newlyweds, so 502 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: they also don't see each other much during the week, 503 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: and this doesn't seem like a good newlywed set up, 504 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: she says. It sounds like I'm unhappy when I'm actually 505 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: the happiest I've ever been. I'm just struggling to figure 506 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: out how to strike a better, more balanced life at 507 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: home while still working within the constraints of careers that 508 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: mean a lot to us. Oh my gosh, I am 509 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: so stressed out just listening to this question, I should 510 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: say her for anyone who's wondering why the crazy hours. So, 511 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: what happens with a lot of law firms, he's in 512 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: the sort of making partner window. And what happens for 513 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: a lot of people who are in this window this 514 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: run up to this, is that you are judged on 515 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: how many hours you bill, and so most people want 516 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: to build very much at the top range of what 517 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: they will ever be doing in order to make it 518 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: through that hoop. And there are of course some real 519 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: financial benefits to making it through that hoop, you know, 520 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: to the point where your salary. I mean, it's not 521 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 1: just like you know, doubling. It's it's like, there can 522 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: be you know, five x, you know, ten x within 523 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: the next few years if you make it through that hoop. 524 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: So that's sort of what they're dealing with. And so 525 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: we followed up with her and said, well, is this 526 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 1: actually a family priority for you? Right? Like, is this 527 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: is him getting through this hoop something that you support 528 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: that you care about or not? And if not, that's 529 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: fine you are allowed to say and then you guys 530 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: then have to decide from that. On the other hand, 531 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: if it is a family priority, that's important to keep 532 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 1: in mind, not saying you have to accept everything because 533 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: you don't like even somebody in the partner window. Can 534 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: you know, contribute at home and do all that. But 535 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: again it's just you know, the idea of is this 536 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: something that matters to you as a family, And she 537 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: mentioned that yes, actually it does. She wants the flexibility 538 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: of him having that sort of level of tenure and 539 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: earnings that would then come from having made partners, so 540 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: to put that out there, and I think that with 541 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: that in mind, I guess, well, the statistic I don't 542 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: have is like, how how likely is it to come 543 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 1: to fruition? Because if it's very likely, then I think 544 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: they should be throwing a lot more money at the problem, 545 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: because they're both in decent careers. Even if this means 546 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: not saving or even if this means, you know, taking 547 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: out some loans, it sounds like they should be able 548 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: to you know, if he's going to be making ex 549 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: jillion dollars a year later, it may not matter. But 550 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: I'm worried about their relationship. I'm worried about both of 551 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 1: their mental health. I mean, I commuting that far seems 552 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: to logistically put huge question marks in my eyes, like 553 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: why why are we commuting that far? Yeah? I think 554 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,240 Speaker 1: ed we wrote back and they were living close to 555 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: extended family. I believe, but I think maybe that's something 556 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: that they need to recalibrate at this point. If they 557 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: could move into the city, like close to his office, 558 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: I'm close to her office, cutting that commute down, cut 559 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: the mute down, commute down to like if you could 560 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: get it to like less than twenty minutes for each 561 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: of you. If like you're both in midtown, great, because 562 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: you know, yes, you're gonna have to hire childcare help 563 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: for a lot more hours, but you're also getting back 564 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: an hour for both of you on either side, which 565 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: is which is something that you could definitely use in 566 00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: this situation. I would also say that you know he 567 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: may have a mindset that again the only thing he 568 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: has to do is throw ours against this problem of 569 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 1: billing it. And it's not quite that simple. Like, if 570 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 1: you want to maximize your chances of making partner, it's 571 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: not just the hours. You also want to be careful 572 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 1: of which partners you are working with, what they are 573 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: going to say about you, the sort of easily documented 574 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: big wins, the people who are willing to kind of 575 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 1: bang on the table for you in the meeting. So yes, 576 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: there is a big component of how much have you build, 577 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,319 Speaker 1: but it is not just that. So I want to 578 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 1: make sure that he's being strategic as well. And you 579 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 1: know that's the same advice we'd give to a mom 580 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: who is trying to make partner in this window with 581 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 1: a young kid too. But you know, it's not just 582 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 1: the hours, So make sure that you're also thinking about 583 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 1: making your your chances the best possible. I hope they're 584 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: also just maximizing like I mean, sort of redundant to 585 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: what I said, but just all the logistics, Like I 586 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: hope nobody is spending time in this couple doing laundry, 587 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: and I hope nobody is spending time doing minutia around 588 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 1: the house like this. This is a situation where they 589 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: need to prioritize some time together because it sounds like 590 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,800 Speaker 1: that is a struggle and their marriage is so new, 591 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,799 Speaker 1: and if their relationship doesn't last, then it doesn't matter 592 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 1: if their husband, if the guy makes partner, because well, 593 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: that won't be your spouse anymore, right, So I think 594 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 1: that I just think that really looking at putting all 595 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 1: of the potentially manipulatable pieces in your favor to give 596 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: yourselves more time for each other and more time to 597 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 1: be a family, it's worth doing that. And I also 598 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,720 Speaker 1: think she doesn't have to protect him from the choices 599 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 1: he makes. Like she says he's offered to take the 600 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: kid in the morning so she can have some time. 601 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,240 Speaker 1: Take him up on it. It is not your responsibility 602 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: to judge how much has he slept, is he feeling relaxed? 603 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: Is this the best thing? Like? Let him do it, 604 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,359 Speaker 1: partly because he probably wants time with your little one, 605 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: right and so don't deny him that If he's asking 606 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 1: about it, like that's that's something that you can give him. 607 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: And that's if that's the only time he's going to 608 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:08,919 Speaker 1: get all day with your kid, then by all means, 609 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 1: let them have that relationship and build that relationship and 610 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,000 Speaker 1: you know, use the time for something else. So yeah, no, 611 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 1: I'm and I sympathize with this. You know, my husband 612 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: is not a lawyer, but went through a you know, 613 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:27,239 Speaker 1: consulting firm sort of you know hoop that you leap through. 614 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 1: But one thing is we we did not start planning 615 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: to have children until after he was through it. Yeah, 616 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: this sounds like it's the residency phase. This is Yeah, 617 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,799 Speaker 1: this is the residency phase of life for this and 618 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:39,800 Speaker 1: and you know, with some jobs there are big payoffs 619 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: for that. Like you said, I mean, you earn more 620 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: as a doctor than you do as a residence. So 621 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: you don't want to just view it as the long term. 622 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 1: But it would help for everyone to know, like a 623 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,879 Speaker 1: what percent of their people in the fourth year, fifth 624 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 1: year range do make partner? What you know, does that 625 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,359 Speaker 1: involve like make sure he's talking to the people who 626 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 1: are doing this, because you know, yeah, you want to 627 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,880 Speaker 1: make sure that this is something it won't be exactly 628 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: like this forever. But it may be for another year 629 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: or two at least, and so you want to make 630 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,839 Speaker 1: sure that this is worth it, and maybe think about 631 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 1: a plan B, you know, like if it doesn't work out, 632 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 1: maybe get figure out what that timeframe would be and 633 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: then you know, think of have something else in your mind, 634 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,800 Speaker 1: because that might be helpful to anticipate and think about 635 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 1: just in case. And I'll always put a plug for 636 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 1: thinking about cost of living and the trials and tribulations 637 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,319 Speaker 1: of being in New York. Yeah, although if both their 638 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 1: jobs are there, I don't know what they're supposed to 639 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: do about that. Both their jobs are there now, but 640 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: they oh long term maybe, as I'm saying, plan B, 641 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:37,600 Speaker 1: plan B, if it didn't if it didn't work out, 642 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 1: all right, Well, this has been best of both worlds 643 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 1: we've been talking. Our interview was with Masha Saunders talking 644 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,759 Speaker 1: about being married to a diplomat and also building a 645 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,439 Speaker 1: career in a big accounting firm while doing that. We'll 646 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 1: be back next week with more on making work in 647 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: life fit together. Thanks for listening. You can find me 648 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore 649 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 1: Shoebox on Instagram, and you can find me Laura at 650 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 1: Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the best of 651 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 1: both worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more 652 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 1: on making work and life work together.