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Speaker 1: Quest Left Show is a production of iHeart Radio. I

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Speaker 1: have a general no small talking before the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I totally agree.

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Speaker 1: That's why I've been.

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Speaker 2: Doing a podcast now. You were the first person I

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Speaker 2: knew with the podcast, so really yeah, who else was

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Speaker 2: doing in the music for Okay? Is it rolling, Bob?

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Speaker 2: It's always rolling?

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: No, that's how you got to keep it always in record.

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Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen. This is the Quest Left Show. I

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Speaker 1: know there's a lot of this has been a long

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Speaker 1: time coming quotes that you hear from me when I

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Speaker 1: do the intro of the show, But this is the

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Speaker 1: longest of the long timers. Like you know, this should

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Speaker 1: have been episode five, episode six instead of episode five thousand.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know where we are right now. So

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Speaker 1: our guest today is a legendary producer, remixer, arranger, label owner,

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Speaker 1: I would say, still DJ, pioneer of what I call

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Speaker 1: electro hip hop culture. I'll say that some of the

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Speaker 1: earliest experiments with hip hop and R and B comes

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Speaker 1: courtesy of our guest today. I believe for most of us,

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Speaker 1: the first time we ever heard an eight oweight drum

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Speaker 1: machine comes courtesy of our guest today. Definitely one of

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Speaker 1: the earlier pioneers of new technology in the studio. More

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Speaker 1: than that, I can even say that his innovations have

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Speaker 1: probably helped bring forth different genres that we have under

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Speaker 1: the hip hop umbrella. For instance, I would hesitate to

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Speaker 1: say that hearing his music probably inspired the versioning Miami

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Speaker 1: based culture machine, which then of course turned into Atlanta Rap,

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Speaker 1: which to this day the eight oit is still their

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Speaker 1: weapon of choice. We can even say that freestyle music,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna get into all that, but you know, just

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Speaker 1: name them. I mean, Africa been bottling the Soul, Sougning Force,

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Speaker 1: Planet Patrol, Rockers, Revenge, I Owe you Freeze, New Edition.

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Speaker 1: I cannot wait to start talking about sun City, his

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Speaker 1: work with Al Green, countless of remixes with Cyndi Laufers, Springsteen,

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Speaker 1: halland Notes, Dinah Ross, New Order, Bob Dylan. The list

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Speaker 1: goes on and on and on. He's just released his

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Speaker 1: memoir called Looking for the Perfect Beat. What can I say,

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Speaker 1: We finally, after all this time, have the one and

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Speaker 1: only author Baker. The question to me, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: you already know. If it's nineteen minutes then.

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Speaker 2: Yeah you know, yeah, no, thanks for that, intro man,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, who's that guy? He's talking?

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Speaker 1: Well, the thing is is that I always wanted you

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Speaker 1: on the show because you breathe rare air. Because in

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Speaker 1: my opinion, not only do you have your foot in

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Speaker 1: hip hops, really laying the foundation in the red carpet

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Speaker 1: for just all the ideas and stuff that we do

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Speaker 1: now to this day, but you're also you have another

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Speaker 1: foot and sort of the I won't say the bygone era,

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Speaker 1: but it's sort of a no. But I mean there's

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Speaker 1: an era of even before the idea of like what

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Speaker 1: we call a remix in my opinion, like remixing. I'll

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Speaker 1: give you a great example, So Prince would often do

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Speaker 1: this thing where he would remix and reshape his twelve

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Speaker 1: inch mixes to be different than that of what the

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Speaker 1: album version was. But before remixing, there was edit culture.

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Speaker 1: And I'm talking about like you know, shit, beat It, Boom, Cellybean, Benezza.

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Speaker 1: That's sort of the Latin rascals. Yeah, yeah, even the

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Speaker 1: guys in the seventies, Damon Huso, tom Oltens, tom Olten's

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Speaker 1: Like there's edic culture that we don't even talk about,

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Speaker 1: like as far as like the earliest stages of disco.

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Speaker 1: So I feel like you have your foot in both

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Speaker 1: eras and so I think it's this is extremely, extremely,

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Speaker 1: extremely important. So I will start with letting you speak

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Speaker 1: after nineteen minutes of an intro. What was your first

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Speaker 1: creative project?

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Speaker 2: It was probably scribbling on walls, but it wasn't graffiti. No,

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Speaker 2: in my house I would draw on the walls. I

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Speaker 2: just remembered that because that was my first. But then

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Speaker 2: in music, I played clarinet and saxophone horrible, but it

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Speaker 2: got me into early jazz in my head. You know,

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Speaker 2: my dad was a big Nat King Cole fan, so

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Speaker 2: at home we were hearing Frank Sinatra and Nat King

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Speaker 2: Cole at five six years old, so I did. I

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Speaker 2: was exposed to that, which was.

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Speaker 1: It's weird because you are so associated with technology as

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Speaker 1: the eight oid drum machine. I never once thought to

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Speaker 1: even ask myself, is author an actual musician?

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Speaker 2: Like in my mind, well I'm not, but I attempted, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But I mean you have some sort of you know

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Speaker 1: where cdefg avc is.

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Speaker 2: I do write songs, but I know, I mean I

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Speaker 2: can write songs without playing them.

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Speaker 1: Got it? What was your first musical memory in life?

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Speaker 2: Really twofold one was going to Temple on Holy Days

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Speaker 2: I'm Jewish and hearing the choir and hearing these songs,

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Speaker 2: one of which was Albano Mulcano, which I eventually recorded

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Speaker 2: with Mongolai like fifty years after hearing it in Temple

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Speaker 2: when I was like five, So I have yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: It was the inspiration behind that.

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Speaker 2: Just like thought it was a beautiful song, and I

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Speaker 2: thought that they would do a great job in it.

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Speaker 2: But I mean, when the first music I heard live

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Speaker 2: would be in Temple. The first music I heard on

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Speaker 2: the radio was like when I was eight, I remember

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Speaker 2: hearing Pretty Woman, Roy Orbison and all the Motown stuff

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Speaker 2: and the Beatles. Of course, I was born in fifty five,

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Speaker 2: so by the time sixty three sixty four, those were

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Speaker 2: the songs I was hearing.

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Speaker 1: You know, to you, was it just a natural thing

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Speaker 1: like water and bread? Like of course, like you don't

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Speaker 1: miss bread until you do like your first anti nor diet.

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Speaker 2: No carved diet. Right, I'm notucking with that you're.

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Speaker 1: Willing to kill somebody for some bread, But I mean

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Speaker 1: I will acknowledge, Like in the summer of eighty eight,

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Speaker 1: even at sixteen and I'll say the Summer Idiot is

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Speaker 1: probably the onslaught the deluge of classic This is changing

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Speaker 1: my life hip hop, like, never heard this before. And

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Speaker 1: then two weeks later this comes out, and then a

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Speaker 1: month later.

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Speaker 2: It was the seven seventy two around then all the

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Speaker 2: Philly stuff, all the motown The Papa was a rolling

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Speaker 2: Stone Norman Woodfield.

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Speaker 1: Would you like look at the radio, like, how the

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Speaker 1: hell's this happening? Or did you notice something's different than

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Speaker 1: I did.

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Speaker 2: I tell the story in the book, but I was

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Speaker 2: driving to school nineteen seventy two. I had a driver's license,

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Speaker 2: driving to school. Papa was a rolling Stone, came on

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Speaker 2: the base. I just pulled over the side and listened

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Speaker 2: to the entire thing because I was like, what is

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Speaker 2: this record? You know?

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Speaker 1: Between Papa was a rolling Stone and a song like masterpiece. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you know the Temptations have spoken on this, Like

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Speaker 1: were you wondering at what point are they going to

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Speaker 1: sing the song?

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Speaker 2: Actually like yeah, well that's why that's why I was waiting. No,

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Speaker 2: because it was just a baseline. I'm like, wow, you know,

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Speaker 2: because I was a fan of I mean Sly, which

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Speaker 2: you're very familiar with. His things were I mean pack

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Speaker 2: it all in three minutes. Yeah, they were you know,

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Speaker 2: the loco would come in right from the top. And

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Speaker 2: this was sort of Norman Whitfield taking what Sly had

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Speaker 2: done and sort of stretching it out and adding Philly in.

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Speaker 2: I think it was Philly and Sly became that music,

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Speaker 2: or even Isaac Hayes. So basically there are all these

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Speaker 2: things colliding at that time. You know, obviously you have

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Speaker 2: to it all goes back to Sly because he literally

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Speaker 2: created what Norman Woodfield heard. And then I think one

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Speaker 2: of the Temptations brought the Sly record to Norman Whitfield

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Speaker 2: what we need to sound, Yeah, which was I didn't

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Speaker 2: know that un till many years later, of course. But no,

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Speaker 2: I loved rock music and I loved whatever you wanted

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Speaker 2: to call it, R and B. It was going into

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Speaker 2: being disco, you know, so disco because of the drums

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Speaker 2: and just sort of the the extended versions. I mean

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Speaker 2: even before there was a disco twelve Norman Whitfield I

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Speaker 2: just played last night when I DJ you You plus

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Speaker 2: Me Equal Love and Harmony. That is one of the

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Speaker 2: best songs of ever. It's like thirteen minutes long. The

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Speaker 2: Solos and that Thennis Coffee. They're all on that record people,

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Speaker 2: and you know that was like pre really remixed twelve

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Speaker 2: inch records.

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Speaker 1: You know that we were Taka Boom.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, amazing, amazing workerd all.

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Speaker 1: Right, So besides the Tavares brothers and Donna Summer, I'm

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Speaker 1: of age where like New Edition were idols. All my

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Speaker 1: Boston stories that I know come from black acts, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, even gangst Are, even though Mr So there

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Speaker 1: were rock bands. But yeah, I was going to say,

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Speaker 1: like Aerosmith, like Arasmith, the Afternoon de Lights.

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Speaker 2: Jay Giles, Well listen, check it out. Aerosmith and Jay

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Speaker 2: Giles both are rock groups that sort of had beats

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Speaker 2: that became hip hop tracks exact, and the thing was

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Speaker 2: fast forwarding. But when I first met Bimbada a few

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Speaker 2: years later, that's what bonded us because he was playing

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Speaker 2: rock beats too, And these were bands I grew up with.

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Speaker 2: Aeros Smith and Jay Giles were the two biggest Boston

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Speaker 2: bands of the cars in Boston, and you know that, Kim.

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Speaker 1: Later, I was going to say, so my camaraderie with

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Speaker 1: Little Stephen is I've been on the Rock and Roll

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Speaker 1: Hall of Fame committee for a decade and a bucking

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Speaker 1: some change and every meeting. You don't know how hard

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Speaker 1: Little Stephen is in terms of campaigning for Jay Giles

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Speaker 1: to get in the Rock and Roll Hall of fam Peter.

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Speaker 2: Peter is a really good friend of his. And they deserve.

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Speaker 1: No, he definitely deserves they deserve it.

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Speaker 2: I look at it. I have to say, I look

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Speaker 2: at some of the bands who aren't in there. Little feet,

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Speaker 2: the old feet, come on, man, I mean.

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Speaker 1: I'm telling you it's people always ask me all the time,

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Speaker 1: and it's just it's it's forty people having whatever, the

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Speaker 1: twelve angry men.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen seen the film that.

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Speaker 1: That sort of thing it happens. But yeah, shout out

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Speaker 1: to Little Stephen. So, I mean, what is your story

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Speaker 1: of Boston's music, and like, how did it call you?

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Speaker 1: And just like what was your well was your involvement

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Speaker 1: and in your localized Boston.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Well, here's the thing I missed one important fact

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Speaker 2: about me and music. My mother's first cousin was a

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Speaker 2: guy named sid Raymond, who was a big I mean,

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Speaker 2: that's where I get my music from that side of

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Speaker 2: the family. He was the arranger for Leonard Bernstein. He

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Speaker 2: did West Side Story. He wrote girl Watch his theme song, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Patty Duke and Candid Camera. He wrote those three songs.

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Speaker 2: He could have retired after that, but he got So

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Speaker 2: that's my second cousin, you know, So there is like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: well it's gotta be some some genetic thing, you know,

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Speaker 2: that the music thing, because my mother always would sing.

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Speaker 2: She she had a really nice voice, and she would

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Speaker 2: you know, they played music. Okay, we had I had

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Speaker 2: a really good education, but okay, Boston, so Boston. I

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Speaker 2: went to college, started DJing in seventy three.

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Speaker 1: Where'd you go to college?

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Speaker 2: Hampshire College. Okay, Ken Burns he went there. He was

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Speaker 2: in my year before me. All right, So basically I

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Speaker 2: started DJing in college. I went to Rodina, Brooklyn because

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Speaker 2: it was like a couple of hours away. Got a

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Speaker 2: Gli mixer with the big knobs. Yeah yeah, and I

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Speaker 2: got two turntables, and I was DJing, and I got

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Speaker 2: to dig at a club called rash Heads, which was

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Speaker 2: an Arabic hookah pipe disco and and amber.

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Speaker 1: The one time about huka culture was even a thing,

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Speaker 1: yeah yeah, yeah yeah. See I thought hookah culture was

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Speaker 1: only like for like millennials, like nineties culture. No no,

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Speaker 1: this was even with we legal now like there's still

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Speaker 1: like right now, the new nostalgia is a bunch of

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Speaker 1: thirty five to forty year olds that will go to

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Speaker 1: hookah parties to listen to, you know, whatever is popping

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and one, to like Nelly the Neptunes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah no, no, no, no no, no, there were guys.

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Speaker 2: But so I did that. Then I moved back to Boston,

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Speaker 2: worked in a record shop and took an engineering course

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Speaker 2: at a studio called Intermediate Studio, which is where Aerosmith

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Speaker 2: cut dream On. I remember getting in the studio. I

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Speaker 2: was taking the course and I found rough I wish

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Speaker 2: I had him rough mixes of dream On, and we

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Speaker 2: were listening to him. And because they were a band,

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Speaker 2: like when I was in high school a few years earlier,

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Speaker 2: dream On was a hit. So basically they were like did.

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Speaker 1: They have a local ass presence there?

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Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, yeah they were the Them and J

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Speaker 2: Giles were the two bands. But so I started taking

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Speaker 2: engineering course and then I convinced the owner of the

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Speaker 2: studio to give me free studio time to make a

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Speaker 2: disco record, because disco was the thing, you know, it

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Speaker 2: was seventy six.

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Speaker 1: How did you convince the owner?

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Speaker 2: I had a gift to gap. You know you need

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Speaker 2: that right, you know that? So I got him and

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Speaker 2: then he hided in an arranger, this guy John West,

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Speaker 2: who was at Berkeley, and we used all Berkeley students.

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Speaker 2: Now the group I had, I had been djaying in

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Speaker 2: New Bedford and there were these three guys hanging at

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Speaker 2: the bar and it turned out they were singers, but

250
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Speaker 2: they were players also, So basically they were like your producer. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I said, I'm a producer. Okay, here's some They put

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Speaker 2: down cash and they said we want to make a record.

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Speaker 2: And the guy, Chico Walker, he had said he had

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Speaker 2: been in a group called Hearts of Stone from Motown.

255
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Speaker 2: I got the record. I looked there was no Chico

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Speaker 2: on there, but he said he was the new Hearts

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Speaker 2: of Stone. But we went in and we cut the

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Speaker 2: record and it was a disco you know, seventy seven,

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Speaker 2: I guess that was. And I got a record deal

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Speaker 2: in Canada and the same label that had Gino Socio

261
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Speaker 2: came out, got played in New York. Richie Rivera played,

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Speaker 2: So that was that was my entry.

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Speaker 3: Point, and it was like, did you know what I

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Speaker 3: was doing no, yeah, because disco is very specific, I

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Speaker 3: would imagine, especially like in watching engineers of my father's era,

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Speaker 3: like they were so adamant on like taping this the heads.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well we did all that.

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Speaker 1: But how did you did you know? Well, you knew

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Speaker 1: the sound you wanted.

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Speaker 2: I knew the sound I wanted, and I had really

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Speaker 2: cool All the musicians were young. They were all going

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Speaker 2: to Berkeley. See that's when you talk about Boston. You

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Speaker 2: cannot separate Boston from Berkeley. So they were amazing. Musicians

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Speaker 2: from all over the world were at Berkeley even back then,

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Speaker 2: so you know, if you wanted to make recording, you

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Speaker 2: just you know. I had a friend who was teaching there.

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Speaker 2: Or one guy was English guy, Keith Maynard. He was

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Speaker 2: doing arrangements, so he did the horn arrangements. It was

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Speaker 2: all very uh, it just sort of flowed, you know

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Speaker 2: that I met and then you start meeting musicians, and

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Speaker 2: I met a bunch of great ones, and I just

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Speaker 2: started making records because I the musicians were not thinking,

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Speaker 2: let's make a disco record. They were studying the scales.

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Speaker 2: They don't have a shit, right, So basically I sort

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Speaker 2: of started like an industry a sort of a disco.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to be like I was totally out of

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Speaker 2: my mind because I had no reason to think I

289
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Speaker 2: could be doing this. I just did it.

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Speaker 1: Did you know the general rules like the rules of

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Speaker 1: you know, taking the symbols away from your drummer or

292
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Speaker 1: taking the tom toms away from your drummer.

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Speaker 2: Well, that record, we wanted the tom toms because it

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Speaker 2: was like a Savannah band, you know. But I mean

295
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Speaker 2: we you know, you learn from your engineers and we would,

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Speaker 2: and your drummer and drummers are always I'm not gonna

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Speaker 2: say you're this way, but very anal and really gotta

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Speaker 2: be specific extremely that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So some are also like just all over the

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Speaker 1: tes like.

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Speaker 2: Keith Moon, I don't think right, so I don't think

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Speaker 2: he really cared. But but it was it was more

303
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Speaker 2: like everyone was learning together. But I had some good

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Speaker 2: musicians and good singers, and you know, it was just

305
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Speaker 2: sort of I wanted to create a Boston thing. I

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Speaker 2: didn't think I was moving to New York anytime soon,

307
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Speaker 2: which I did.

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Speaker 1: So one of the things that I discovered, especially now

309
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Speaker 1: in this sort of storytelling phase of my career, where

310
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Speaker 1: like film and all those things. You know, the crazy

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Speaker 1: amount of research that I've done in terms of getting

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Speaker 1: access to a lot of these sessions. Back then, I

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Speaker 1: didn't realize how prominent looping was, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: the seventies stuff.

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Speaker 2: George Clinton, I know if he had done it yet.

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Speaker 1: But no, no, even typical like Slith and Family Stone, like

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Speaker 1: I discovered like, oh my god, like you just took

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Speaker 1: the best sixteen bars of this particular Like when I'm

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Speaker 1: getting these reels and I'm like, oh, this is the

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Speaker 1: part I know, and I'm like, oh, I remember this part.

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, only to realize and see the notes

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Speaker 1: that we have this slice right like the master would

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Speaker 1: be left alone. Then they make a dub and then yeah,

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Speaker 1: all that stuff. How prominent was editing culture or looping

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Speaker 1: for you back then? Or wasn't as you expected your

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Speaker 1: band to do a perfect ten?

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Speaker 2: We yeah, I mean we don't. We have no time

328
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Speaker 2: in the studio. Sly had all the time he wanted. Typically,

329
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Speaker 2: we had no time. We had like a click track,

330
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Speaker 2: which was what was it called. It was a it

331
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Speaker 2: was just like a white noise generator. And it didn't

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Speaker 2: even have a tempo. Oh god, I forget the name.

333
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Speaker 2: Of it, but it was a white noise generation.

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Speaker 1: So click tracks were even prominent back seventies.

335
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Speaker 2: Said yeah, but they weren't. You didn't have the tempo.

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Speaker 2: You could just you could just I think it was

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Speaker 2: part of the move and it would stay consistent. So

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Speaker 2: you played to that. But there was no well, I

339
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Speaker 2: mean there were, but we just didn't have access to

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Speaker 2: the drum machines that Sly used in sixty nine.

341
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Speaker 1: Right, But was the idea to keep the.

342
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Speaker 2: Guy in tempo?

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Speaker 1: Were you thinking the DJ and this needs to be consistentaeh, we're.

344
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,400
Speaker 2: Thinking about yeah, but no one at that point, before Giorgio,

345
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Speaker 2: before euro Disco, then you knew that that was really

346
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,320
Speaker 2: in time. Those records were pretty much in time. Even

347
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Speaker 2: even like Niles Sheath those shits all over the place,

348
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Speaker 2: you know they are, It didn't really happen till after that,

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Speaker 2: I'd say, consistently with a click track and drum machines

350
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Speaker 2: obviously once that, So.

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Speaker 1: What are the general rules that you're learning in real time?

352
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Speaker 1: Like I know, for like AM radio, transistor radio era

353
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:39,479
Speaker 1: pop sixties, you know, three minutes and twenty seconds all

354
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Speaker 1: you got to get these ideas out.

355
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Speaker 2: We were totally away from that, we didn't care. We

356
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,680
Speaker 2: were making club disco records. We were making them ten

357
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Speaker 2: to eight minutes long. I mean, we weren't thinking about

358
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:52,800
Speaker 2: no one was going to play this on the radio.

359
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:57,040
Speaker 1: We were But in general, for an effective disco record,

360
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,480
Speaker 1: what do you think the rule was? Or are you

361
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 1: saying to me that because they were so scarce back

362
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:09,320
Speaker 1: then that they were all welcome, like I e. MTV

363
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:11,520
Speaker 1: wanting any video in the first.

364
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Speaker 2: Now, there were a lot of records coming out in

365
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Speaker 2: seventy six, you know, seventy seven, that was the explosion

366
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Speaker 2: of disco.

367
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Speaker 1: But you needed six to eight hours to.

368
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,919
Speaker 2: You needed an intro that was like long enough for

369
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Speaker 2: the DJ to set it.

370
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,200
Speaker 1: Up, That's what I'm saying, like, and then there would

371
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Speaker 1: be a break.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, there was definitely a pattern. You know

373
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Speaker 2: you if you listen to Double Exposure ten percent. That

374
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,679
Speaker 2: was sort of what we were blown away by because

375
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Speaker 2: that was sort of the first twelve inch record and

376
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Speaker 2: Walter Gibbons and I heard him play it at a club.

377
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:44,879
Speaker 2: It's in the I talk about it in the book,

378
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 2: and we thought it was him playing two copies. We

379
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,520
Speaker 2: thought he was going back and forth, like what later

380
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,040
Speaker 2: became known as like hip hop right, you know, but

381
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,399
Speaker 2: guys in Boston, John Luongo, who ended up being a

382
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 2: really big remixer. He'd have two forty five.

383
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:01,000
Speaker 1: One of those from Boston.

384
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's from I did not and he literally is

385
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,360
Speaker 2: the godfather of disco.

386
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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I know he's done more than that

387
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 1: for me.

388
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:10,959
Speaker 2: That was mine, but he did, he was he had

389
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Speaker 2: He had a magazine called Nightfall, which was the Disco

390
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 2: It was a night life magazine but focused on disco.

391
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 2: And he had a Disco Awards in Boston the first year,

392
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 2: Donna Summer, the Tramps, Casey and the Sunshine Band, Baker,

393
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:32,119
Speaker 2: Harrison Young and the Village people live in Boston. What

394
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 2: this is.

395
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Speaker 1: He's the first one that saw the vision of form

396
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Speaker 1: and business and being.

397
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, he did. And then he moved to New York

398
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 2: and he became a big remix about but my first

399
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 2: record that hearts a Stone record. He came in and

400
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,720
Speaker 2: did helped me with the remix. Well he I helped

401
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,679
Speaker 2: him have something a remix you know.

402
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 1: Okay, so all of my memories of and my father

403
00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: wasn't a disco artist at all, you know, I'm for

404
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 1: because his head was still in the fifties and sixty

405
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,200
Speaker 1: you know, like Motown even still made them do like

406
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,359
Speaker 1: like fifties covers in the seventies or whatever, which is

407
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 1: good for me to know, like, oh, that's you know,

408
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 1: Jackie Wilson saw from the sixties or whatever. But I

409
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,120
Speaker 1: do know that engineers were way more annal back then.

410
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,159
Speaker 1: You can't touch that. You can't. You can't Dad. So

411
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 1: but the thing is is like, how are you do.

412
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 2: You think I listened to them? No, That's what.

413
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like, how do you convey to them? Hey,

414
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 1: I need more the drums got to sound more heavier.

415
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,160
Speaker 2: Well, you'd play you know what you'd play in records?

416
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 2: You go, I want the drums to sound like that record.

417
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 2: I mean that's what you know. That is what we did.

418
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,919
Speaker 2: We'd go, I love the drums sound on that. I

419
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 2: love the horn part in that I played. My arranger,

420
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 2: I'd say, you see that, can you do something similar

421
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 2: to that? So it was all I was a DJ.

422
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,119
Speaker 2: So I was I was showing the engineer and the

423
00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:58,639
Speaker 2: arranger the record you want.

424
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Speaker 1: Not a nuisance. And I don't mean a nuisance in

425
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 1: terms of that being a nuisance. But I've I've heard

426
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:08,160
Speaker 1: some examples of because again a lot of these masters

427
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 1: that I go through, I also hear the raw talk

428
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 1: of it all, and there have been some arguments where

429
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: it's like that doesn't sound loud enough. Last time I

430
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,360
Speaker 1: want you to Well, as I said, we.

431
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 2: Had like eight hours in the studio, so we didn't

432
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 2: have time to do that. It's different when you're making

433
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 2: an album and you know, like.

434
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 1: So you have to create, you have to format and

435
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: make mixed.

436
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 2: Well, no, we'd go back, we'd go and we'd record everything,

437
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 2: and then another session we'd mix. That was it. I mean,

438
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 2: even with you when we get to Planet Rock, it

439
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 2: was like that for that.

440
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,880
Speaker 1: Also, I'm almost certain there's a working road for you

441
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 1: in which you could go the traditional route of just

442
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: being a producer in terms of like finding popacks whatever.

443
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,199
Speaker 1: But when did you realize, like, there's no title for it.

444
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 1: So I'll just say for now street me, Well, don't

445
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 1: know what.

446
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 2: I wanted to be gamble enough, and I wanted to

447
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 2: make records that you could dance to that said something,

448
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,880
Speaker 2: But I had no reason to think I could do it.

449
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,959
Speaker 1: All your records have edge to it that the average.

450
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 2: That's because I wouldn't that's good. I wasn't good at

451
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 2: trying to make the same thing as someone else. I'd

452
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 2: add like, I'm not going to say funk. I'd add

453
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 2: an edge just because I didn't know what I was doing.

454
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: Maybe, you know, is it not one they say in

455
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: your life, like oh dog, like there's too aggressive sounding.

456
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:32,400
Speaker 1: This is too No.

457
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 2: It's funny because I was just with Nelson George the

458
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 2: other day and I used to bring him my early

459
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 2: twelve inch records in like eighty eighty one when he

460
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 2: was working at Record World, and he remembered, I mean,

461
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,439
Speaker 2: he remembers this kid coming in with these records and

462
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 2: they were always okay, there was just something different, weird

463
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 2: or whatever. And then when I brought him plan he

464
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 2: was like, oh yeah, okay, now I get it. But no,

465
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 2: I was attempting to make records like the one I

466
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,160
Speaker 2: had heard, but for some reason, they never came out

467
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 2: like that. And I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because

468
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 2: I only had a certain amount of time to do them.

469
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 2: I don't know, right, but you know I was. I

470
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 2: was happy because I was making records that got played.

471
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,919
Speaker 2: Before I moved to New York, I had records that

472
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 2: Happy Days North and Frankie Krocker killed that record. I mean,

473
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 2: it was a big record here. I don't need no

474
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 2: music TJM. Larry Levan. So, you know, out of Boston,

475
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 2: I was making these disco records that were getting played

476
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 2: in New York and to me that was like, Wow,

477
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,360
Speaker 2: I've actually done something that no one else had done.

478
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 2: And I was like a horrible DJ, which I don't

479
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 2: know if we've ever discussed it. I'm really I'm a

480
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 2: horrible DJ because I have no patience. Really, I'm horrible

481
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 2: still to this day.

482
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 1: I don't like playing full songs.

483
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 2: No no, but you're you cut between them. I just

484
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 2: lose patience with the whole process, you know. I know,

485
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 2: I'm big, honest, you know, Yeah, I get bored. No,

486
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 2: I get I bore myself. So no matter what whatever

487
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 2: I play, I mean, I know they're good, but I'm

488
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 2: just like, I don't know what I want to play,

489
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 2: and I'm not prepared. I know you are probably the

490
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 2: most prepared DJ.

491
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: You want to know in the world.

492
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 2: I think from what I've seen.

493
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: When we've got I was antal retentive. I would plan.

494
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: I remember, yeah, I was mix this a year ahead

495
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: of time, like three songs a day I would add

496
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 1: to that long thing. Actually, I'll say as of this recording,

497
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: this is probably week twelve. I decided that I wanted

498
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: to try. I've been taking hole in the wall gigs.

499
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 1: The agreement is like, you can't advertise me. Yeah, oh yeah,

500
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: I want to practice a non prepared gig, just play

501
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 1: a record and see what I feel that And this

502
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: is more of my therapeutic thing, like no, what do

503
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 1: I feel inside? Not like what a I prepare inside.

504
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: So and this is also the same with maybe twice

505
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: a year I'll do like a real jazz gig where

506
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: like Glassper, one of those guys will be like, go on,

507
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 1: let's do a gig together at the Blue Note or

508
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 1: whatever I think. Like yesterday Chris Dave came up with

509
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 1: a night He's like, look, I want to do five

510
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: drummers like you, me, Kareem, Briggins, Stro Elliott and maybe

511
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: Jazzy Jeff spinning drum solos, just drums and no instruments.

512
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: And that to me is the most intimidating thing ever.

513
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna allow myself, well I'm not gonna do it,

514
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: but I also I'm so calculated in curating and being

515
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: the band leader. I want to know what's next and

516
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: what my emergencies are that I'm actually allowing myself to

517
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 1: not I want to become a sloppier DJ.

518
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 2: So well watch me, you'll learn really quickly about what

519
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 2: you feel. Yeah, the djying thing. But I had the

520
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 2: mind of a DJ. That's where I wanted to go.

521
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 2: So I knew what things were meant to be. And

522
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,239
Speaker 2: all these great DJs in Boston they thought they're never

523
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 2: going to get to be a record producer. They're just

524
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,919
Speaker 2: going to I mean, back in the day that was

525
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 2: sort of the process. But when I moved to New York,

526
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 2: I'd never dj' in New York.

527
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: What year did you move to New York?

528
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 2: Eighty one? Okay, but I never dj' in New York. Ever,

529
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 2: you know, I was DJing and not in Boston. Really.

530
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 2: I was in like Braintree. I was in like the suburbs,

531
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 2: playing like the mafia. The supper club. There was a

532
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 2: place called Sadies Supper Club in Braintree. And you know what,

533
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 2: maybe your dad I was going to say, they did

534
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 2: have bands.

535
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: He was going to say, I believe that Sades was

536
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: also one of the normal if it's if it's in

537
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: the northeast, if.

538
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 2: It's New England, they had a bunch of sades. They

539
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 2: had a bunch.

540
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: Oh we we lived, I'm sure you like I remember

541
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: Boston when the whatever your highways were not fixed, the

542
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: traffic nightmare. Yeah, it's fixed now, and I'm not used

543
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: to it. I'm so not used to it. Okay. So

544
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,479
Speaker 1: in terms of edit culture just in general, and I

545
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: know you do have a story of lu long ago,

546
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: but is it Ron Hardy or Tom Wulton one of

547
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: those guys.

548
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 2: He written me off?

549
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: He okay, So what is the Tom Moulton story? Well

550
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: to the seventies, who who are the go to.

551
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 2: Tom Moulton was? He worked with Florence Greenberg et Sceptor

552
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 2: Mel Sharon. He would do remixes and re edits of

553
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 2: early scepter stuff, scepter.

554
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: Stuff like BT Express eracept. Were they labeled before then or.

555
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 2: The Sceptor she had labels before that. I know they

556
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 2: were all Sceptor. It was Sceptor. He had a BT Express,

557
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 2: Bobby Moore call me or anything. Man, I don't you

558
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 2: know that record? He was doing all that. He he

559
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 2: made tapes. He wasn't he didn't play records. He would

560
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 2: make these tapes and they got played with Fire Island.

561
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 2: I mean it's like a big. It was like sort

562
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 2: of a big.

563
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: He was part of the Together mixtape and then they

564
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: would play that.

565
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 2: And then everyone would go nuts. Yeah, so he became

566
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 2: the guy. Either he was from Boston or his brother

567
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 2: was at the studio when I was working on my

568
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 2: big project, which was in seventy eight. I was making

569
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 2: my own disco album, so I cut twelve songs totally

570
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 2: over my budget, had no money to finish it, and

571
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 2: this guy, Jerry Moulton, Tom's brother, came to the studio

572
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 2: and said, I think my brother's going to love this stuff.

573
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 2: So he played it for Tom and they said to me, well, listen,

574
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 2: we want to take it. We want to re record everything.

575
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 2: How you've recorded it isn't good, but we want the tapes.

576
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 2: So they took all the multi tracks.

577
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: Now, in your mind, what do you think you think

578
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: they're going to stick to their word?

579
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would think it was seventy I was twenty three,

580
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 2: and I don't.

581
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: Know who tomt Yeah.

582
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why it was a big. It was a big. Yeah.

583
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 2: It was like a big thing that I was getting

584
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 2: the record would come out. He said, well, listen, we'll

585
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 2: use the songs, you'll get some publishing, which I got

586
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 2: like a third of the publishing, and but we're not

587
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 2: going to use your recording. We're going to just listen

588
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 2: to your recording so we could redo it. Yeah, and

589
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 2: then the then the record comes out and literally it

590
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 2: is my recording.

591
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: And so he just re engineered it.

592
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 2: He just he you know what he did do He

593
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 2: took off the guy who was a falsetto singer Bobby

594
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 2: Howard from the Ambitions from another See Boston had their

595
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: vocal groups Energetics the Ambitions that they had to quite

596
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 2: a breakaway the Italian guys. Uh So, basically I hear

597
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 2: it and the only thing that's different is he's added

598
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 2: a few strings and he has a different lead singer,

599
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 2: Ron Tyson, who later became he was one of the

600
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,479
Speaker 2: guys in the later Eddie Kendrick guy. He was like,

601
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 2: so he's singing on it, right, but Larry Wedgeworth, who

602
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 2: was a singer online, he's the lead singer. No credit

603
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 2: for Larry. And then I'm like, you know, what the

604
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 2: hell you know? And I and literally there was nothing.

605
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 2: I'm sure there was something I could do, but I

606
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 2: never did anything about it, and uh so for years

607
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 2: me and me and Tom.

608
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: He won't know whatever.

609
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 2: But I have the rough mixes I did that I

610
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 2: sent him and they literally everything's it's all there. So

611
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 2: but I mean it got But the thing was a

612
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 2: good thing was Larry Levan played a song called put

613
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 2: Yourself in My Place, which Alfie Davison or had written,

614
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 2: and I don't need no music, and people go, oh,

615
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 2: is that your wait? Is that your record? Your name's not.

616
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 2: I mean it was on as a writer and a ranger,

617
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 2: but it got played at the garage and that opened

618
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: it up, and then you know, it was sort of

619
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 2: a big entree, but also the first total screwing I got,

620
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 2: and that that was unbelievable. When I think about it now,

621
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, well we're gonna just listen to the tapes.

622
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 2: We don't really.

623
00:32:55,440 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're proof that every Maverick that entered is

624
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: this injury has a trial by fire. I got ripped

625
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: off first. That was your first lesson that I.

626
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 2: Have many more. Is Moulton still he's still live, He's

627
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 2: still is the active. He just does remixes for he

628
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 2: has all his no he actually is active, and he

629
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 2: has all these multi tracks. He got a lot of

630
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 2: the Sigma ones. Got it because he did all the

631
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 2: Sigma stuff. He did all the things you probably love

632
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 2: the Love is the Message, all the all the Philly

633
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 2: International comps. He did all that stuff. I'll always say

634
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 2: the guy's the best remixer ever, but he's an asshole.

635
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: Could you give me North of Harlem a Bronx era

636
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: hip hop story? Like venturing up there?

637
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 2: I have my best story, Well, let me hear it. Okay,

638
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 2: my best story is I'm working on another disco album

639
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 2: with Joe Batan. So Howard Smiley, who had been a TK,

640
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 2: he was a friend. He got me and Joe together

641
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 2: to make an album. I was going to do one side,

642
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 2: Joe the other, but we'd collaborate on each other's tracks.

643
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 2: And Joe called me up. I was living in Brooklyn

644
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 2: with Tina, my wife at the time, and I get

645
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 2: a call from him and he goes, you got to

646
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 2: come up here. You got to hear this. And I

647
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 2: go here. What he goes, there's guys talking over records.

648
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 2: You know, they're playing tracks on a boom box and

649
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:39,240
Speaker 2: they're talking over records.

650
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: And I'm like they're playing tracks on the boombox.

651
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 2: Well, they were playing like to Be Real or whatever.

652
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,959
Speaker 2: They were playing No on a tape. Yeah, so they're

653
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 2: playing No. They're playing tracks in the park and they're

654
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 2: wrapping over them live, you know, just sort of hanging

655
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 2: out doing that. So I'm like, it was in the

656
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 2: summer and I'm in Brooklyn. I don't really want to

657
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 2: make them move, right, But he said, you know, you

658
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 2: gotta come, you gotta come. And I went and there

659
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 2: he is sitting on a park bench and uh one

660
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,359
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty fifth or you know, around.

661
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 1: There it looked Dystopian as we imagined the movies and stuff.

662
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was seventy nine. This was before I moved.

663
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 2: This is when I'm just here for the summer. And

664
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 2: there he is, and he's what I loved about Joe Batan,

665
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 2: and I sort of followed that as a fashion thing.

666
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 2: He was always ready to play basketball. He always had

667
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 2: sneakers and shorts on, no matter what. He'd go to

668
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 2: a meeting. So he was sitting in the park dressed

669
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 2: like that, and he goes he pointed to the and

670
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, he said, someone's gonna make a million

671
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 2: dollars on that. I remember thinking.

672
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:47,280
Speaker 1: Really really so it was just like yeah, yeah.

673
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 2: But that Then about a couple of weeks later, he

674
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 2: was in the studio and I came in because we

675
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 2: were working on the record together a friend of mine

676
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 2: from Boston, guitarist and Andre Career. He was playing guitar

677
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:03,359
Speaker 2: on it, and was when I met Jocelyn Brown, and

678
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 2: it was Rapoclapo. He was recording Rapo Clappo, which was

679
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 2: two weeks after he had seen the guy in the

680
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 2: park right, and he did Rapoclappo because he wanted to

681
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,720
Speaker 2: be the first guy to record a rap record because

682
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 2: there was no rap records. I didn't want to even

683
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 2: know if it was called rap. This is like pre rappers, Delight,

684
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 2: pre anything. And we're in there and he's got this

685
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 2: guy Marty Scheller doing the arranging and it was you know,

686
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 2: and I met Jostin she was probably eighteen year nineteen whatever,

687
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 2: Wow is seventy eight and yeah, I was like, oh

688
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,280
Speaker 2: it sounds cool, but you know, I was doubting still.

689
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 2: And then London Records US went Busto closed, so we

690
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 2: each got our own tracks back. So he ended up

691
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 2: putting that out as Mestizo that album and he had

692
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 2: Rappo Clappo on it, and that became a hit in Europe,

693
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 2: not over here.

694
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:02,399
Speaker 1: But you know, I want to know about New York,

695
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: or not even New York, just of the era indie

696
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 1: label culture. And I'm talking about like Western Records or

697
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: emergency records like Sasol or Prelude, these labels that I'm

698
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 1: seeing prominently getting a seat at the table, but they're

699
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: indie labeled. But I'll tell you there's Are you going

700
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 1: to say Mars Levy.

701
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 2: No, no, I'll save that.

702
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, Mars Leavey story.

703
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:32,879
Speaker 2: Dude, he was my partner for a year.

704
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: Motherfucker. Stop give me Mars Levy story.

705
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can tell. I tell them all. Man, he's dead,

706
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 2: you know, because there is a rumor he's in Australia.

707
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 2: Though when it.

708
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 1: Shot to you at all, if he's still your.

709
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 2: Well he'd be really old. Now I don't think you

710
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 2: know he did get can Yeah, yeah, I don't want

711
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 2: to kid about him, you know, but basically.

712
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 1: You would seem like the type.

713
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 2: But but this, this is going to connect to what

714
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 2: you just asked me, Okay, And I will tell you

715
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 2: a Morrise Levy story. But the labels were either run

716
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 2: by old industry guys like Prelude, Marty God, what's his

717
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 2: name he was? He had been in the industry, mel

718
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 2: Sharon had been at west End. West End was mel Sharon,

719
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 2: who had been at Sceptor working at Sceptor.

720
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 1: So those wait, wait, so you're trying to tell me no, no, no, no.

721
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 2: Half of them were run by the old cats, and

722
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 2: half of them were run by the new cats like

723
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:45,240
Speaker 2: Profile young guys, Comedy Boy, young guys, street Wise, young guys.

724
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 1: You know.

725
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 2: There were the older guys who had started before us,

726
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 2: like Prelude and west End were like an even Emergency

727
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 2: was an Italian guy, Sergio Kosa, who had been a

728
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 2: little a little older than us. So there were that,

729
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 2: and then when hip hop started, all the new labels started.

730
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 2: That's what started all these young kids doing labels Tommy

731
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 2: Boy and Prelude and street Wise. So basically there were

732
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 2: two roots, the Prelude Disco, the more disco e west

733
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 2: End Prelude those were old not old times. Yeah, they

734
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,800
Speaker 2: were older than us. They were fifteen twenty years older,

735
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 2: so they were like more established, and then the upstarts

736
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 2: were the ones that ended up becoming sort of more

737
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 2: the hip hop influence.

738
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 1: You started street Wise label. Okay, so walk me through it.

739
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 1: You're like, I'm going to start a label. What is

740
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 1: the first thing you need? I guess capital's money.

741
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 2: No, But what happened was because Tom had Tom started

742
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 2: his label. I knew Tom from these Billboard Disco conventions,

743
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 2: which you know, and that was earlier, like in the

744
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,760
Speaker 2: late seventies. So when I moved to New York, Tom

745
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,720
Speaker 2: said I was the only record producer he knew. Literally

746
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 2: he did know, well, he didn't really know what he produces.

747
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,879
Speaker 2: So he said, I've got this guy Bimbada, He's got

748
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 2: these rap acts. Do you want to produce the record?

749
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 2: I go, sure. You know, no one was offering I mean,

750
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 2: a producer without someone willing to pay to get you

751
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 2: in the studio is you can't. Back then, you couldn't

752
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 2: produce anything without being in the studio and being able

753
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 2: to hire musicians.

754
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: Right.

755
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 2: So Tom the first record with Jazzy Sensation, and we

756
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 2: went in with a live band.

757
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 1: You yeah, yeah, yeah, See in my mind, you just

758
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:34,399
Speaker 1: came from the future with this thing. Who's the house

759
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 1: band for that?

760
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 2: That was Andre Booth and yeah, Andre Booth and Charlie

761
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:44,880
Speaker 2: Street the guitarist and the guys who did bbcsn.

762
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: A was Pumpkin on drums or.

763
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 2: Who No, no, it was this guy t Funk who

764
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 2: would played with James Brown at some point. Are so

765
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 2: he claimed, But they did Vicky d this speed his mind. Okay,

766
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 2: they had produced that. I met them through T Scott

767
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,359
Speaker 2: who was a DJ and remixer who had remixed and

768
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 2: helped me finish Happy Days, and he brought these young

769
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 2: kids from Queens. They were all eighteen nineteen years old.

770
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, what you how did I meet?

771
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: What do you?

772
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 2: Finally, well, I met musicians through T Scotty. He brought

773
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 2: them in to do some overdubs and then so we

774
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 2: did Happy Days. And then when I wanted to go

775
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 2: in to cut this rap record for Jazzy five, I

776
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 2: called the guys I had met on that session, which

777
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 2: was Andre, and we became really good friends. So Andre

778
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 2: brought the band and we went into Galactic Studio and

779
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 2: we decided to cut Bunky Sensation and you know, did

780
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 2: her redo of it, because back then all rap records

781
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:47,439
Speaker 2: were covers obviously, and and there was this one kid

782
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 2: who was always in the studio with him who didn't

783
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,320
Speaker 2: say anything, and I didn't know till years later actually

784
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 2: that it was Marlee Marl. So Marlee Marl was he

785
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 2: saw me as sort of a mentor because he was

786
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 2: in all my sessions and I didn't really even know

787
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:03,759
Speaker 2: at the time, but he was in a lot of

788
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 2: the sessions. Yeah. But basically, so starting a label. I

789
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 2: had a hit with Jazzy Sensation and then Planet Rock,

790
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,760
Speaker 2: and I bumped into a friend of mine from college

791
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 2: on a train on the f train and he said, well,

792
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 2: you had Planet Rock. Don't you want to do a

793
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 2: record label? And I go yeah, but he goes, I

794
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 2: got a guy from Boston who's a banker and he

795
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 2: has a lot of money and wants to start a label,

796
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 2: Bob Alexander, Paul mccraven. And that's how I started. Without

797
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:33,800
Speaker 2: the money, there's no way I would have ever started

798
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:35,280
Speaker 2: a label and the infrastructure.

799
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 1: Okay, so walk me through. I'm so glad I'm asking

800
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: you all these questions, okay, because oftentimes we'll watch a

801
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 1: movie or TV show and they get a hit and

802
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 1: then as the viewer, you're like, oh my god, life.

803
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 2: Is just yeah, yeah, it wasn't like okay, so you

804
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:56,919
Speaker 2: get a hit. I get a hit with Planet Rock.

805
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 1: What does that mean? When does your bank account? No, well,

806
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,879
Speaker 1: we got a hit. When is it like, hey, let's

807
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 1: eat at this fancy restaurant instead of you.

808
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 2: Know, I think it was more like taking a cab

809
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 2: instead of taking the subway.

810
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so yeah, but.

811
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 2: The how quick I mean that one? I mean that

812
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:20,720
Speaker 2: hit really quick?

813
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 1: Well, but I did shouldn't count because Planet Rocks like thriller, like.

814
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 2: We really I wish money didn't come through that quick.

815
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 2: But the thing was, I have to say Tom was

816
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 2: always good at paying royalties and he so basically it

817
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 2: would have come you know, he would have given me

818
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 2: an advance or something. But you know, soon after I

819
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 2: opened up a recording I mean recording studio Beach Street.

820
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 2: All this shit happened within two years. Okay, so I

821
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 2: don't even know how I did it. I gotta say,

822
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 2: I don't know how the money, you know, how it

823
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,919
Speaker 2: came about. But the label came about because a friend said,

824
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 2: you want to open a label.

825
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 1: Well, now, with technology, I mean, technically I can record

826
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: an album on this Yeah, you couldn't back right, and

827
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 1: I can release it and have the same effect, you know, whatever,

828
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: but you.

829
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 2: Would have been great because you're so organized. I was

830
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 2: so unorganized.

831
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: Now I think I'm wise enough to have a circle

832
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 1: of people who are organized.

833
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:19,319
Speaker 2: Yeah.

834
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 1: I got to be creative and I don't want to

835
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:23,280
Speaker 1: miss lead everyone.

836
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I never had my circle.

837
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: There's nineteen people right now like rolling their eyes like yeah, okay.

838
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:29,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I never had my circle.

839
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 3: You know.

840
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: So when you start a label, how much money do

841
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: you need to We got to say that New Diition

842
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 1: was your first label act or did you have another

843
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: act on street Wise? Hugh? Yeah, who's your first street

844
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 1: Wise act?

845
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:46,319
Speaker 2: Well? The first act that I actually discovered and put

846
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 2: out a record that actually did something was Rockets Revenge

847
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 2: because that was big that sold a lot of records. Yeah,

848
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 2: the first few. I had a Pee Wee Ford bass

849
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 2: player from U, B, B and Q. Okay, he did

850
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 2: a yeah, but he did a record for me called

851
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 2: Be My Girl with James Robinson singing lead on it,

852
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 2: like from change, you know. And then I did Touchdown

853
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 2: a group from the UK Easier Mind, which I did

854
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 2: a remix on with Lenny Underwood played keyboards on, and

855
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 2: then Walking on Sunshine was three. Then it was like

856
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 2: the New Edition thing happened before that. To start a label,

857
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 2: I had bankers who had money. They got an office

858
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,879
Speaker 2: immediately and we were street label street wise in our

859
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 2: office Madison Avenue. So we had an office in Madison Avenue,

860
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 2: but like a one room it was not a big office.

861
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 1: But when you're starting label, is it like single first?

862
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 1: And if that's good then.

863
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, we weren't doing albums. We were doing twelve inch

864
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 2: I mean it's all. We were a twelve inch label.

865
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 2: That's what did you make a living office? Well, when

866
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 2: Walking on Sunshine sold three hundred thousand, I guess you know,

867
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,439
Speaker 2: you don't really think of about that. You just back

868
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 2: then I had someone who was financing a label, and

869
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 2: they would letting me decide what came on the label.

870
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,760
Speaker 1: What was your home studio or your studio of choice?

871
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 2: Well at that point it had been Intergalactic, but then

872
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 2: they shut So then I started using a unique, unique

873
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 2: studio in blank blank tapes, Bob Blank.

874
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: You need a bunch of the record?

875
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 2: Ye make money? You needed to pay a manufactured in

876
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 2: advance for the act. I mean you need so.

877
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: You have a twelve inch Yeah, who's the first domino

878
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 1: that has to fall? So that you know, you have

879
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: a chance to have a hit clubs and what's the

880
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: club you're going to go to.

881
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 2: Well, funhouse, Paradise Garage.

882
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 1: And uh is Paradise Garage? Really? Is it more about

883
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 1: the revisionist folklore? The true if you had what I

884
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,879
Speaker 1: feel like for every Jordan, there's ten guys that could

885
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: have wonted Charles Barkley, it was was he could.

886
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:03,720
Speaker 2: He could have, but he wasn't.

887
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 1: Like what else besides I'm gonna tell you.

888
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you there.

889
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,479
Speaker 1: Was And what are we judging on sonics? No?

890
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 2: You you're judging on record sales. The next day Larry

891
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 2: Leman would play a record and then uh, then you know,

892
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 2: you'd what was in vinyl Mania? People would go to

893
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:29,319
Speaker 2: vinyl to well, it was in the village. They'd go

894
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:33,720
Speaker 2: there lined up after hearing a record at Paradise Garage.

895
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:35,359
Speaker 1: But without Suzanna or whatever, how is it working?

896
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,399
Speaker 2: They would go and they go Larry played a record

897
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,359
Speaker 2: who went like Doom Doom, Doom, Doom Doom, and they

898
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 2: I'm telling you.

899
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:43,760
Speaker 1: The Peach Boys.

900
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,359
Speaker 2: No, he'd play it so often the word would get out,

901
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 2: I mean I was there. I'm telling you it's not folklore.

902
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 2: It's actually reality. He played Walking on Sunshine. Okay, all right,

903
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:02,320
Speaker 2: plays Walking on Sunshine, Frankie, here it Crocker. He's writing

904
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 2: down what the songs are. Obviously he goes people hear

905
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 2: the song before he even starts playing it. They hear

906
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 2: it at the garage because Larry would play songs numerous

907
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 2: times in the night. I mean the first time.

908
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 1: I'm there for the night where he tortured them and

909
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: said I'm gonna play ANBC over and over again to

910
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 1: you guys, no heartbeat.

911
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was. I was there for that. But the

912
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 2: bigger one was Rappers Delight. I was there when he

913
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 2: first That's the first time I heard Rappers Delight was

914
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 2: a Paradise garage and he played it.

915
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 1: What was that like to hear it on loud ass speakers?

916
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:40,479
Speaker 2: Unbelievable. And the thing was in the beginning, you think,

917
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 2: because in the beginning of it, there's a there's a

918
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 2: bit from here comes that sound again, right, So I

919
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 2: thought it was that. So I'm like, here comes that why?

920
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 2: And then it's good times and I'm like, what the

921
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 2: fuck is this? And then boom they're rapping. So he

922
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 2: but he played that like a couple of times he

923
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 2: would do that. I'm telling you, I was there.

924
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: That was just normal. I'm not that I hate repetition culture.

925
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: And the thing is, I'm not I'm not trying to

926
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 1: like grandfather. You like, so Granddad tell me what it

927
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 1: was like like as a five year old in these

928
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 1: night clubs. So I understand, like, yeah, play that record again,

929
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:15,879
Speaker 1: play that record again.

930
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 2: Play yeah, But no one did that. He did that.

931
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 2: It wasn't like everyone else did that. He was doing

932
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 2: it because he was stubborn and he would make people

933
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 2: listen to that record. And Heartbeat was another famous one.

934
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 2: So slow, such a slow track.

935
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 1: He would bring force boogie onto people. Don't make me wait.

936
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 2: He was playing that for a year before it came out.

937
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: People were resisting it.

938
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 2: Well in the beginning, and then it would be like

939
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:45,280
Speaker 2: you know, when it came on, people would go nuts.

940
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 1: I mean, but listen, it's so it's actually true Stockholm syndrome.

941
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 1: Some people wouldn't he's liking you.

942
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't think. I think, I think.

943
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 2: But the whole idea of him playing it and then

944
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,720
Speaker 2: people going to Vinyl Mania the next day, the next

945
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,319
Speaker 2: morning looking for record, I mean that's how people were.

946
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 2: The only way they'd hear a lot of this was

947
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 2: at the club, so you know, and then Frankie would

948
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 2: play it, and then you knew you had to hit.

949
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 2: I mean, in my dock that I've done above Rocker's Revenge,

950
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 2: I tell that story, and it's literally it happened that way,

951
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 2: and we Frankie would come on and we'd all be listening,

952
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 2: and my distributor was Sunshine Distributor. Strangely and basically we

953
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 2: heard Frankie play it and then it was just like

954
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,400
Speaker 2: they ordered thirty thousand cars. I mean it would be.

955
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:35,320
Speaker 1: So Frankie Crocker is the bridge in between the street

956
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:38,800
Speaker 1: clubs and everything and radio and if you hear something

957
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:41,479
Speaker 1: and the crowd responds to it, he played on radio

958
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:43,319
Speaker 1: the next day. He get the credit for like, look

959
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 1: what I introduced.

960
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 2: To You don't know. He was open about going to

961
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:48,720
Speaker 2: Paradise Garage. He was always there.

962
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 1: I wish I could do a study on how revisionist

963
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: history starts where it's just like, I mean, people swear

964
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:58,800
Speaker 1: to God that the best sound system of their lives

965
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,479
Speaker 1: was at the Paradise Groul. Like what else was there

966
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 1: besides just music? You never heard before, and and people

967
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 1: were open to a song they didn't know before. It

968
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 1: was I can't imagine that today.

969
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 2: It was it was that. It was that, but it

970
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 2: had like these great wooden floor I mean it just

971
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:22,760
Speaker 2: was like wooden floors, like a basketball court, the really

972
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 2: beautiful wooden floors. And it had the tweeter you know,

973
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,799
Speaker 2: the tweeters. I mean, it was just he knew how

974
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 2: to play the system. And I'm not a tech guy

975
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 2: at all, you know, so I'm like going, well, you're

976
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:36,359
Speaker 2: a producer, yeah, but I'm not like, you know, a

977
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 2: tech nerd. I would go there and it would just

978
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 2: sound amazing, and the low end it was just a

979
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 2: clean and just you.

980
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:47,399
Speaker 1: Know, okay. In order for me to get the satisfaction

981
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 1: of playing an unheard, untested song, I mean it could

982
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:54,719
Speaker 1: be from an established artist. I've played like new outcasts

983
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 1: before that no one's ever heard. But it's almost like

984
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 1: I got to play you and then I'm gonna get

985
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: that one song in the middle that you never heard before,

986
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 1: an M tape off a little bit or if if

987
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:08,720
Speaker 1: if it's paral or something, it's like, oh, there's obviously

988
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 1: some new Neptune shit. I've never heard before.

989
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 2: But no, I do that. But I'm not playing you know,

990
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 2: I don't care. I'm not saying you have to care,

991
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 2: but you know, it's a different you have a bigger

992
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:23,320
Speaker 2: crowd or whatever. But I always play shit i'm working

993
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 2: on because that's what I always did, you know, And

994
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:27,760
Speaker 2: that was the only way I knew it when something

995
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 2: was finished. I mean, we played Walking on Sunshine, a

996
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 2: Confusion or I owe you any of those records. We

997
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:36,760
Speaker 2: played at the Funhouse for months and before the record

998
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 2: was out, it was like a hit there nowhere else,

999
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,800
Speaker 2: you know. But but we use that as our testing pad.

1000
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 2: Now that you're saying that, I find it strange that

1001
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 2: DJ's like I know, a lot of you know, big

1002
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:51,720
Speaker 2: EDM DJs and not playing what they're working on because

1003
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 2: of just what you said, you.

1004
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 1: Know, um culture, A lot of them don't only playing

1005
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:59,239
Speaker 1: what they're working on. Like I can't just zam half

1006
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 1: the MD when I go to Vegas. Yeh, I'll go in.

1007
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:06,399
Speaker 1: I'll watch uh okay, maybe maybe the seventh figure DJ

1008
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 1: the same figure and they're really they're doing a show.

1009
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:11,680
Speaker 1: They're playing the best of them. I don't I don't

1010
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 1: have my music isn't conducive of like five hours of dance. Yeah,

1011
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 1: if you clean your house on a Sunday, I'll be

1012
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: the perfect guy to make you a mixtape. But if

1013
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:28,879
Speaker 1: I gun to your head, like the best New York

1014
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 1: nightclub experience for you was always what.

1015
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:33,760
Speaker 2: It's hard.

1016
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 4: I mean Studio fifty four, even though is that the

1017
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 4: legend that's yeah, that's bull really well, well it's celebrity hangover.

1018
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:45,439
Speaker 1: Man.

1019
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 2: I wasn't a celebrity, so I was n I I

1020
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 2: wasn't a celebrity. I didn't even get to go in.

1021
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 2: I mean as this music was, Yeah, it's no No.

1022
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 2: He wrote the song in response to no No, but

1023
00:53:57,640 --> 00:53:58,359
Speaker 2: yet they were playing.

1024
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 1: There was one time when everybody dancers playing It's like,

1025
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 1: that's literally me, you really not getting it.

1026
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 2: I had three clubs. I had better Days, well actually

1027
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:13,439
Speaker 2: four clubs. Better Days Danceteria, which you would have loved

1028
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 2: Danceteria because it just it was totally very eclectic and

1029
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:20,880
Speaker 2: played every everything got played there, and there different floors

1030
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:22,759
Speaker 2: and the people who are hanging out. It was just

1031
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 2: like a really cool.

1032
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:28,400
Speaker 1: So okay, this is my humble break. Madge tells me

1033
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 1: a story when she first this before she signed to sire.

1034
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 1: How she has a cassette in her hand and she

1035
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:39,759
Speaker 1: gives it to the DJ, Mark Cammans even then, like

1036
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 1: I can't imagine. I'm so The reason why I'm glad of.

1037
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:44,880
Speaker 2: That was how it was, like, I mean, she was cute.

1038
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:51,359
Speaker 2: He put it on. What why do we being real? Yeah,

1039
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:52,839
Speaker 2: he'd listen to it and play it.

1040
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 1: So DJs weren't ego like for me, different made me

1041
00:54:57,760 --> 00:54:58,239
Speaker 1: look bad.

1042
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 2: It was different then, but what if the song is bad,

1043
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 2: well then you know what he plays? Another one man?

1044
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 2: It was different. No one knew what anyone was playing.

1045
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 2: Do you understand they were playing things that no one

1046
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:15,760
Speaker 2: it had a beat, No one knew what the records were. Okay,

1047
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:20,800
Speaker 2: think about that record period. Every record played was something

1048
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 2: people didn't know until they knew it, until they knew it.

1049
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 2: But the first time, it wasn't like they were playing

1050
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 2: records from the radio. They were playing you know, Mark especially,

1051
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 2: he was very forward thinking. He was playing everything. Mark Caymans,

1052
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 2: I mean he was most eclectic. No, but I'm just

1053
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 2: saying Larry Levan would not play anyone's track, you know,

1054
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 2: he would play He knew me, he had played my

1055
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:49,799
Speaker 2: records I gave Walking on Sunshine. He didn't play it

1056
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 2: right away, and then right when I left, because this

1057
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 2: was this is how he was. He saw I was

1058
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 2: in the booth, I left, and then a friend of

1059
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 2: mine said, as soon as you left, he played it.

1060
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:17,719
Speaker 1: Explain to me a typical DJ setup in a nightclub

1061
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty one eighties.

1062
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:23,320
Speaker 2: Everyone everyone, everyone had a two inch or just a

1063
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 2: quarter just a quarter inch. Everyone had quarterings.

1064
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 1: So we're not concerned about like, uh.

1065
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 2: They're not and now they are, but they're not. I mean,

1066
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:34,839
Speaker 2: it wasn't a common occurrence that he would play it

1067
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 2: all the time, but he would play my quarter inch tapes.

1068
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 2: You know, it's in the confusion video. That's real.

1069
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:45,840
Speaker 1: What was your best response to an untested record in

1070
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 1: here and.

1071
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:49,759
Speaker 2: Play at your own risk? Well, of course because you

1072
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:52,400
Speaker 2: playing it right, I know, But you asked me, man.

1073
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 1: It's like I made all the wall thriller.

1074
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 2: Yeah no, but okay, uh what else? Yeah no. I

1075
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 2: would say that I Owe You is big at the funhouse.

1076
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 1: I like that song is helped a lot of us

1077
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 1: elementary school kids.

1078
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know you my daughter, My daughter learned.

1079
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:14,799
Speaker 1: The AE I Owe You And sometimes why can you

1080
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: tell me the first time that you heard craft Works

1081
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 1: music in a nightclub setting, what is the crowd acting like?

1082
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:27,560
Speaker 2: When I heard Trans Europe Express in Boston, Chan Luwanga

1083
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 2: would play it, Okay, I was in the record pool.

1084
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 2: We got the twelve inch of Trans Europe Express, so

1085
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:37,919
Speaker 2: Trans Europe Express, and I'd hear that. Before Planet Rock.

1086
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 2: I would hear Trans Europe Express in the projects, you know,

1087
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:46,440
Speaker 2: in Queens, I've worked in Long Island City. I'd hear

1088
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:48,920
Speaker 2: it coming out of someone's radio, you know, it'd be

1089
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 2: and it'd be Black Radio stadium. Yeah, it was great.

1090
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 2: So basically when we went in to do this record

1091
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 2: that became Planet Rock, Bimbada had said, I want to

1092
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 2: use Trans Europics. That was definitely his idea, not mine.

1093
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 2: But then him and Tom Silverman did a demo which

1094
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 2: I didn't really really.

1095
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 1: Well.

1096
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 2: It doesn't sound much like Planet Rock, but it's got

1097
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:26,720
Speaker 2: the base line from do you like it? Uh? So, Yeah,

1098
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 2: it did work, but it wouldn't have been I'm playing

1099
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:32,920
Speaker 2: a rock was And then I was a music factory

1100
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 2: in Brooklyn with the guys who would later become Rockets Revenge.

1101
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:38,920
Speaker 2: They were behind the and they had two Decks and

1102
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 2: they were DJ at the shop, which was amazing, and

1103
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 2: and Dwight put on this track which just went WHOA

1104
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 2: what is that? And it was Numbers. So I said, oh, man,

1105
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 2: if I use that beat with the melody and no baseline,

1106
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 2: no baseline, that gets in the way because Numbers had

1107
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 2: no baseline. So basically we went in and then when

1108
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 2: we went in, the rappers were looking at me like

1109
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 2: they wanted jazzy sensation. They wanted that, they wanted the

1110
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 2: live beat and slow. And then when they heard that

1111
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 2: Bimbada loved it, the rappers they were like, what is that?

1112
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 2: We're never going to get another chance to make a

1113
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 2: record if we do this.

1114
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 1: So okay, this is what I gotta know, all right.

1115
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 1: So I was wondering what your role truly is in

1116
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 1: hip hop culture. Now. A lot has been made of

1117
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:36,000
Speaker 1: the mythology of producer Paul C. And when you talk

1118
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 1: to the large Professor about producer Paul C, our inside

1119
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 1: joke is okay, Yeah, Paul C was the first guy

1120
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 1: to read the SB twelve hundreds instruction.

1121
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 2: Man, wow, he needs an award for that, right, just.

1122
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:55,440
Speaker 1: For that, because anyone else that I talked to, including

1123
00:59:55,480 --> 01:00:00,040
Speaker 1: the Bomb squad include anyone who's Marley himself. Yeah, it

1124
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 1: was just like you know, just you know the basic

1125
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 1: bits and it's trial and eror.

1126
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1127
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 1: Were you the pulse of the pioneering hip hop stage? Where?

1128
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 1: How do you even know what an eight is? How

1129
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:17,160
Speaker 1: do you know how to operate it? Because you're doing different?

1130
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 2: No? Okay, the story with that is very simple. We

1131
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:25,560
Speaker 2: were looking for a drum machine, for sure, Monica Monica

1132
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:29,960
Speaker 2: looking through the Village Voice and we find men men

1133
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 2: with drum machine. We call him up. What drum machine

1134
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:33,760
Speaker 2: do you have?

1135
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 1: He would just have an ad Yeah, drum machine.

1136
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 2: Well, you find drummers in the Village Voice, right, you

1137
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 2: would find anything there, you would.

1138
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 1: How did you know that machine technology? No?

1139
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 2: No, no, no, But here's the thing, he said, eight

1140
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 2: oh eight. So I went to Manny's and heard it.

1141
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:52,120
Speaker 2: I went and heard the drum machine, the eight oh eight.

1142
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:54,640
Speaker 2: They had it at Manny's, right, So I got in.

1143
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:56,560
Speaker 2: They showed me what it sounded like.

1144
01:00:56,800 --> 01:01:01,960
Speaker 1: Wait, because I'm gonna ask you so many minutes, minuscule details. Okay,

1145
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 1: So you have a vision in your head of how

1146
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 1: you want Planet Rock to sound, but you know that

1147
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 1: a live band can do this.

1148
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 2: No way, it's drum machine.

1149
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 1: Right. So when was the first time that you heard

1150
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:21,920
Speaker 1: that a non doctor rhythm sly Stone, how they in

1151
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 1: a like a real like that there's a machine that can.

1152
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:28,840
Speaker 2: I was looking for a drum machine. It could have

1153
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:30,080
Speaker 2: been any drum machine.

1154
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:31,720
Speaker 1: But how did you know they existed?

1155
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:35,000
Speaker 2: Come on? I knew that you existed from Sly Come on,

1156
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:35,920
Speaker 2: you knew that?

1157
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:36,480
Speaker 1: Okay?

1158
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:38,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, and halland Oates had used one and no

1159
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:41,640
Speaker 2: can do I mean they were drum machines. I mean

1160
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 2: it was a thing.

1161
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 1: I was unaware of that, Okay.

1162
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:46,640
Speaker 2: So that's the there was a thing called the drum machine, right.

1163
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 1: And that you were aware that existed.

1164
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:52,160
Speaker 2: I was aware that the drum machine existed, Okay, I

1165
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:55,360
Speaker 2: didn't know anything about them because I never used one

1166
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 2: of them.

1167
01:01:55,680 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 1: But do you acknowledge that, yes, there's sly dude, I

1168
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 1: did an old bible.

1169
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:06,200
Speaker 2: Just lie, but I didn't know that really in real time.

1170
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 1: You're the first time that we ever knew a drummer

1171
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 1: scene two existed. I'll say, right before Planet Rock came

1172
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:19,440
Speaker 1: out Rock and Soul Magazine. Steven Ivory, I think happened

1173
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 1: to be this back when the Jacksons were accessible, and

1174
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:29,680
Speaker 1: Michael's inviting Steven Ivory to a demo session which will

1175
01:02:29,720 --> 01:02:32,200
Speaker 1: eventually become thriller. And this is like March of eighty

1176
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 1: one and they're unpacking these boxes and if I find

1177
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 1: this article, literally they're pulling out Len drum or whatever

1178
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:47,720
Speaker 1: was before the Lenn Drum, and the whole entire article

1179
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:52,880
Speaker 1: is forty five years before AI comes, because they go

1180
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:56,600
Speaker 1: from well, first Michael's like, well, your day's are number.

1181
01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 1: He's talking to like some drummer in the room. Your

1182
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:00,400
Speaker 1: day's a number because we could just do this, and

1183
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 1: then drummer's like yeah, but won't have the same feel

1184
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 1: and da da da da da, And then they went

1185
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 1: from that He's like and the engineer says, well, don't

1186
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 1: worry one day. They don't have computers that will just

1187
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 1: mimic a voice and da da da da da, and

1188
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 1: Michael's like, well, it won't have the emotion like if

1189
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 1: she's out, Like.

1190
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:18,760
Speaker 2: Literally, wow, I'd love to see that.

1191
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 1: They're predicting. So that's how I knew that a future

1192
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:27,560
Speaker 1: was coming, because literally the entire article was Michael Jackson

1193
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:31,400
Speaker 1: pulling out keyboards and all this stuff, but hearing it.

1194
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:35,720
Speaker 1: When I heard your thing, then I was like, this

1195
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 1: is what they're talking about that Michael Jackson article, like

1196
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:40,479
Speaker 1: futuristic spacey shit.

1197
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 2: But it did sound futuristic. That was the thing the

1198
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:45,560
Speaker 2: DMX and Lynn really didn't.

1199
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 1: So you knew there was a machine that existed, and I.

1200
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:51,360
Speaker 2: Knew there were machines that existed. And then when I

1201
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 2: was told it was an eight oh eight, I went

1202
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:54,360
Speaker 2: and listened to it.

1203
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 1: And where did you go to listen to it?

1204
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:59,040
Speaker 2: I think, Manny's a sam ash, you know, one of

1205
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:01,040
Speaker 2: the They were right next to one another. How much

1206
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:03,680
Speaker 2: were they back then? Probably three grand or something?

1207
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:05,320
Speaker 1: Okay, so it was out of the question for you.

1208
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:06,800
Speaker 2: No, I wasn't gonna buy it.

1209
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 3: Now.

1210
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:11,360
Speaker 2: We were gonna rent. We rented the machine and the

1211
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 2: guy for twenty five dollars.

1212
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:15,080
Speaker 1: Does that guy know that that machine is.

1213
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:17,280
Speaker 2: The guessed he would have at the time, you know,

1214
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 2: did you let me hear the end result? Like this

1215
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 2: is the craziest thing. He basically wanted cash and not

1216
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:28,080
Speaker 2: a check. So we didn't have his name. We didn't

1217
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:32,560
Speaker 2: have his full name. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. Wait,

1218
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 2: really his name was Joe, but we never got his

1219
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:39,880
Speaker 2: last name. Can you believe that? That's how much?

1220
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:40,920
Speaker 1: Did he want? Cast?

1221
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 2: Twenty five instead of the check he was afraid Tom

1222
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:45,720
Speaker 2: would bounce to check on him.

1223
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:49,680
Speaker 1: Twenty five dollars, Oh dollars?

1224
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:51,480
Speaker 2: Man, wait twenty five bucks?

1225
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:55,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, motherfucker, I could just give my like here, are

1226
01:04:55,600 --> 01:04:56,200
Speaker 1: you serious?

1227
01:04:56,360 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 2: I'm totally serious? Yeah, crazy. And here's the thing. So

1228
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:03,560
Speaker 2: he came men and we had the basic beat, you know,

1229
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:06,720
Speaker 2: boom boom. You know, we had the beat, and we

1230
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:10,600
Speaker 2: gave him that and he programmed it and then bam said.

1231
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:11,200
Speaker 1: You told him what to do?

1232
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:13,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. But then but then he

1233
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 2: showed me how to do it. So I programmed some

1234
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 2: other stuff the cop.

1235
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:21,920
Speaker 1: What about that switch up that man with the beat switches?

1236
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:26,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that was supersperm. We had two different beats. Yeah,

1237
01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 2: it's that's where yea, that is super sperm. So that

1238
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 2: was bam. You know, he wanted super sperm for the change.

1239
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 2: But all the percussion I did the percussion. He showed

1240
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:39,800
Speaker 2: me the cow bells, the high hats. He showed me

1241
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:41,880
Speaker 2: out of you know, play it, play it with that

1242
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 2: one key that you could play it live and then

1243
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 2: it would you know. So he made the track first,

1244
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 2: we made the beat first, right, okay, right, and then

1245
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:53,120
Speaker 2: John Ruby who played the keys. Then he came in

1246
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 2: and he played keys on top live.

1247
01:05:57,120 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 1: That's all live.

1248
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 2: That's all live. There's no no sequencing at Planet Rock

1249
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:04,480
Speaker 2: at all. Even the ding ding ding ding, that's like

1250
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:08,000
Speaker 2: with the delay, right, all that stuff. There's no there's

1251
01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:09,640
Speaker 2: no sequencing in that at all.

1252
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:11,640
Speaker 1: Okay, So how are you formatting?

1253
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:14,000
Speaker 2: Well, we had A and B you know, you just

1254
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:16,400
Speaker 2: we just sort of you know, there was a switch

1255
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:18,720
Speaker 2: that you have the A section and the B section.

1256
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:23,360
Speaker 1: But you realize that Planet Rock is taken from the

1257
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 1: all right. So George Clinton had a theory which is

1258
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 1: like every song should have miniature songs in them, not

1259
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 1: just needing deep. It's a great example. There's really eight

1260
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 1: songs inside of that fifteen minute song, whereas with this

1261
01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:40,600
Speaker 1: song there's not a chorus, but there's there's least seven seven.

1262
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:42,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what a lot of hooks.

1263
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 1: So are you saying, okay, give me something for eight

1264
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:46,000
Speaker 1: bars which you got?

1265
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:49,840
Speaker 2: No? No. I actually was where's the leader? Like, well,

1266
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:51,640
Speaker 2: rock rock the Planet Rock?

1267
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:52,040
Speaker 1: Right?

1268
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:52,640
Speaker 2: That was me?

1269
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:54,880
Speaker 1: And what device is that?

1270
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:58,560
Speaker 2: That was just a microphone going through a PCM. No,

1271
01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:01,200
Speaker 2: I'm not saying it. I'm saying I gave them that

1272
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:04,760
Speaker 2: hook because do you know the record Body Music by

1273
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:05,880
Speaker 2: the Strikers.

1274
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:07,680
Speaker 1: You finally struck me for a song.

1275
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 2: I don't If you don't know, I'm gonna send it

1276
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:12,360
Speaker 2: to you. It is my probably my favorite record of

1277
01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 2: that time. And they have a thing in that rock rock,

1278
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:18,400
Speaker 2: the disco, rock, don't stop, and I made it rock

1279
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:19,520
Speaker 2: rock the planet rock.

1280
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:20,920
Speaker 1: Wow.

1281
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:23,720
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, so you have to hear that. I played

1282
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:26,040
Speaker 2: it last night and it still rocks and it will

1283
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:27,920
Speaker 2: become one of your favorite I can't believe you don't

1284
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:31,640
Speaker 2: know it. Probably don't know, No, you would, okay. So

1285
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:35,560
Speaker 2: there was that hook and then the rock and note stop.

1286
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:38,600
Speaker 2: It was. That was one of the things Soul Sonic.

1287
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:39,840
Speaker 1: Would do their routine.

1288
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:43,480
Speaker 2: That was one of their routines party people. That was

1289
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:48,280
Speaker 2: you know bambada. So literally it's each bit is someone else.

1290
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:50,640
Speaker 1: Came up proud like I'm thinking you guys are doing this.

1291
01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:55,680
Speaker 2: There's some kids, they're friends. Everyone went in.

1292
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:57,080
Speaker 1: It was a swell people's sound.

1293
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:00,840
Speaker 2: Well, we put the we put the PC forty one

1294
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:04,280
Speaker 2: to give it that electronic sound, and Jay Burnett did

1295
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:05,320
Speaker 2: the uh.

1296
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:08,440
Speaker 1: Oh and singing the hook like those were kids.

1297
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:13,680
Speaker 2: Yeah really yeah, they were young girls or ah wow yeah.

1298
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:16,280
Speaker 2: But then and then Jay Burnett, who was the engineer,

1299
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:19,719
Speaker 2: did the like Brooklyn Rocks to the Planet Rock don't stop.

1300
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:22,719
Speaker 2: So he did it through the mic with the slap

1301
01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:26,680
Speaker 2: back on the PCM forty one, so literally. And then

1302
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:29,880
Speaker 2: Tom he was going through the fair light, which was

1303
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:33,519
Speaker 2: a sampling which you couldn't really use to sample in well.

1304
01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:35,680
Speaker 2: Fair light was expensive as ship. Yeah, but they had

1305
01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 2: one at the studio. How much were fair lights back then,

1306
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:41,160
Speaker 2: like one hundred grand or something. They didn't pay it

1307
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:43,559
Speaker 2: was on lease or whatever, you know. But he was

1308
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:47,559
Speaker 2: going through the sounds and then he went boom, boom, whimp,

1309
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:50,639
Speaker 2: and we were like, we gotta keep it. The Orchestra

1310
01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:53,960
Speaker 2: hit and that is after that record that created the

1311
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:57,599
Speaker 2: Orchestra hit and and uh and dance records. You know,

1312
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:01,360
Speaker 2: so many things in Planet Rock, that beat game staple.

1313
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:04,559
Speaker 1: Day before yesterday of this interview in my Instagram feed,

1314
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:08,680
Speaker 1: someone finally breaks down, I don't know what the Stravinsky

1315
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:12,680
Speaker 1: song is that that hit comes from. Yeah, but they

1316
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:14,840
Speaker 1: were explained that when the guys invented the fair light,

1317
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:17,200
Speaker 1: they were like, wait a minute, we better give them

1318
01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:18,600
Speaker 1: some source sounds.

1319
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:21,280
Speaker 2: Just the show was to deal with.

1320
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 1: And the first thing they just happen to have that

1321
01:09:24,439 --> 01:09:26,719
Speaker 1: Stravinsky record and the first hit was.

1322
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:33,519
Speaker 2: And then yeah, wow, that is Tom Silverman hitting. He

1323
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:36,759
Speaker 2: was going through different things and then what and were

1324
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:39,240
Speaker 2: We all went like that. It was one of those

1325
01:09:39,280 --> 01:09:40,720
Speaker 2: moments and we got to use that.

1326
01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:45,719
Speaker 1: You know, probably the most innovative idea of that song

1327
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:50,639
Speaker 1: that never gets discussed is that's also the first twelve

1328
01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:56,760
Speaker 1: inch in which there's instrumentals, there's bonus beats, there's different mixes.

1329
01:09:56,520 --> 01:10:00,679
Speaker 2: Bonus beat, the name Tom. That was the marketing thing.

1330
01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:02,120
Speaker 1: Bonus speed got it.

1331
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:05,120
Speaker 2: He said, we should you know, the acapella stuff that

1332
01:10:05,439 --> 01:10:08,559
Speaker 2: you know Larry Levan with Don't Make Me Wait. That

1333
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:11,479
Speaker 2: was like the first record that had acapella. Then I

1334
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:15,720
Speaker 2: used Walking on Well, Walking on Sunshine was after so yeah.

1335
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:21,040
Speaker 1: When do you immediately know? Holy shit, I invented fire.

1336
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:25,200
Speaker 2: I played it at a record pool party and everyone just,

1337
01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:28,840
Speaker 2: you know, I think it was Judy Weinstein's I'm not sure,

1338
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:31,559
Speaker 2: but I remember playing at a record pool party and

1339
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:34,519
Speaker 2: people were just you know, when what the you know,

1340
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:36,240
Speaker 2: it was one of the when you first heard it,

1341
01:10:36,360 --> 01:10:37,320
Speaker 2: What the fuck was that?

1342
01:10:37,479 --> 01:10:37,720
Speaker 1: You know?

1343
01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:40,479
Speaker 2: And that was even with just the instrumental because a

1344
01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:42,880
Speaker 2: lot of people in the beginning played the instrumental side.

1345
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:45,920
Speaker 1: They weren't afro futurist. Then, they weren't dressing up in

1346
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:49,600
Speaker 1: those spacy costumes and none that like the song forced.

1347
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:51,400
Speaker 2: Them to be that, that forced them to be that.

1348
01:10:51,439 --> 01:10:53,840
Speaker 2: They were not like that. They were wearing snorkel coat.

1349
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:55,920
Speaker 1: You know, they were like, at what point did they

1350
01:10:56,040 --> 01:10:59,639
Speaker 1: realize like, did they ever so a need gratitude? They?

1351
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:04,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, well they after that they trusted me, and you

1352
01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:08,000
Speaker 2: know because when we did Perfect Beat, that was very different.

1353
01:11:08,200 --> 01:11:10,519
Speaker 1: Speaking of John and keyboards, there's no way you're not

1354
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:13,439
Speaker 1: going to tell me that that Perfect Beat opening line?

1355
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:16,080
Speaker 1: Was it perfect? Could you loop back? Then?

1356
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:16,760
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1357
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:17,160
Speaker 3: That was?

1358
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:19,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was sequenced.

1359
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:22,960
Speaker 1: Okay, So talk about sequence culture in nineteen eighty two, because.

1360
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:25,920
Speaker 5: That was eighty three eight, Tell well there was about

1361
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:30,800
Speaker 5: srequence back then. Technology, Yeah, it changed, it changed, you know,

1362
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:33,880
Speaker 5: step sequencing. You'd do a note and you know it

1363
01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:36,439
Speaker 5: was step sequencing. You'd press a button, do a note

1364
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:39,160
Speaker 5: and it could either be sixteenth to eight, so you know,

1365
01:11:39,240 --> 01:11:40,080
Speaker 5: it was really.

1366
01:11:40,200 --> 01:11:42,439
Speaker 1: And you can speed as fast as one and slow as.

1367
01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 2: It would sink to the drum machine.

1368
01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:46,240
Speaker 1: I mean I was going to say, how did sink

1369
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:47,679
Speaker 1: to the drum machine and the keyboard?

1370
01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:50,759
Speaker 2: And it had you know, so the earliest MIDI midi

1371
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:51,880
Speaker 2: a MIDI clock.

1372
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:54,760
Speaker 1: So was Mady and eighties think or was Mady even

1373
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:55,800
Speaker 1: the seventies it.

1374
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:59,080
Speaker 2: Was eighties thing. Okay, the guy who did mister K

1375
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:02,240
Speaker 2: from Roll and this other guy David, who I think

1376
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:06,799
Speaker 2: was either from Lynn or one of the other drum machines.

1377
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:09,800
Speaker 2: They created Minty together to link all these machines up

1378
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:14,479
Speaker 2: because nothing was sinking. I mean, Oberheim did the system

1379
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:17,600
Speaker 2: made famous by the Group of Systems, which was a

1380
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:21,360
Speaker 2: drum machine, a sequencer, and the O B eight. So

1381
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:24,719
Speaker 2: that was made. You didn't need another box. You could

1382
01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:27,680
Speaker 2: just sink that up together. The box was and he

1383
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:28,080
Speaker 2: was the.

1384
01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:31,240
Speaker 1: Nerd that was going to do all though the engineers.

1385
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:34,439
Speaker 2: Would have to learn that shit, you know. Excuse me? Yeah, no,

1386
01:12:34,520 --> 01:12:37,719
Speaker 2: I had known part of that. John Roby was good

1387
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:41,639
Speaker 2: with the with the rolling stuff and sequencing. But yeah,

1388
01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:43,760
Speaker 2: looking for the perfect beat.

1389
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:46,040
Speaker 1: We give all our love the planet rock. Yeah, but

1390
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:48,559
Speaker 1: also like I mean, we can't sleep on looking for

1391
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:51,439
Speaker 1: the perfect beat, which I you know, can they do

1392
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:55,400
Speaker 1: it again? And as a resounding yes. So was there

1393
01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:57,320
Speaker 1: a pressure to like.

1394
01:12:57,560 --> 01:13:00,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, now the group were on the road. There on

1395
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:01,080
Speaker 2: the road, they're like.

1396
01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:02,439
Speaker 1: But what's their reference?

1397
01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:04,639
Speaker 2: I guess when they just have a seven minute ago

1398
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:07,600
Speaker 2: play at Rock and Bam, had they had had some

1399
01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:10,960
Speaker 2: other you know, they had their stuff that they would do,

1400
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:13,640
Speaker 2: and you know, before Planet Rocks.

1401
01:13:13,439 --> 01:13:16,400
Speaker 1: I'm going for Springsteen levels. The roots have to have

1402
01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:19,240
Speaker 1: a two and a half hour show and surprise, back

1403
01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:21,479
Speaker 1: when we had one hour ount we have four hour shows.

1404
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:23,840
Speaker 1: So in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, do a cover song,

1405
01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:28,840
Speaker 1: a bunch of solos. But back then, would you just

1406
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:30,320
Speaker 1: have to have a fifteen minute show.

1407
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:32,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, they'd go out with the DJ. You know, they

1408
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:35,599
Speaker 2: would go up with Jazzy J I think, and he'd

1409
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:37,479
Speaker 2: play a set and then they'd come out and do

1410
01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:42,439
Speaker 2: call and response, audience participation, favorite g. Yeah, they do

1411
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:45,599
Speaker 2: other stuff and then they they do uh, then they

1412
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:46,479
Speaker 2: do Planet Rock.

1413
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:51,200
Speaker 1: Was there any question or how do we do this live?

1414
01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:54,880
Speaker 2: Like? No, they'd play the they say the track and

1415
01:13:55,040 --> 01:13:56,640
Speaker 2: rap over it. I mean it was it was like

1416
01:13:56,680 --> 01:13:57,960
Speaker 2: a TV track or whatever.

1417
01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:00,360
Speaker 1: They never no point was like you might have to

1418
01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:03,320
Speaker 1: get a keyboard player or a drum machine programmer or not.

1419
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:06,519
Speaker 2: At that point. No, No, at some point, at some

1420
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:10,479
Speaker 2: point I think they may have. Well, Flash had he

1421
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:13,040
Speaker 2: had a drum machine, right, so he did he played

1422
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:15,479
Speaker 2: the beat box. That was like he did do that.

1423
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:31,920
Speaker 1: Speaking of which, okay, so what were your general thoughts? Oh,

1424
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:33,400
Speaker 1: this is a great example. I always said on the

1425
01:14:33,439 --> 01:14:36,160
Speaker 1: show that it's never the pioneer that gets the credits,

1426
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:39,200
Speaker 1: the person that comes right after. So of course Numbers

1427
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:43,439
Speaker 1: is the spark and Planet Rocks the twelve alarm fire.

1428
01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:47,639
Speaker 1: So what are your feelings in eighty three when you're

1429
01:14:47,640 --> 01:14:51,960
Speaker 1: hearing like Scorpio by Graham, Aster Flash and Furies five

1430
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:57,519
Speaker 1: or you're hearing not Fish, It's time or basically so,

1431
01:14:57,600 --> 01:15:02,400
Speaker 1: I'm a Philadelphian and Grove in Juniors from Philadelphia and

1432
01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:07,519
Speaker 1: mister Magic was Mammoth. But of course DC's like, we'll

1433
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:11,519
Speaker 1: take that, And even to this day I argue with

1434
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:14,360
Speaker 1: DC people, I'm like, yo, dog, Okay, granted, you guys

1435
01:15:14,439 --> 01:15:18,679
Speaker 1: have go go, but you should acknowledge that you got

1436
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:22,080
Speaker 1: it from a Philadelphia artist and y'all took it, you know,

1437
01:15:22,439 --> 01:15:25,559
Speaker 1: as far as the city's concerned. Like I could pinpoint

1438
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:28,719
Speaker 1: you were there. You were doing this type of music

1439
01:15:28,720 --> 01:15:31,639
Speaker 1: over singing, but we weren't calling it new Jack swing.

1440
01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:35,320
Speaker 1: You know, Miami will take that record and make a

1441
01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:38,840
Speaker 1: trillion records out of it. The Latin Italian culture will

1442
01:15:38,920 --> 01:15:41,600
Speaker 1: take it and call it freestyle. Detroit will take it

1443
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:46,360
Speaker 1: and call it techno. So for you, what is your

1444
01:15:46,520 --> 01:15:51,880
Speaker 1: feeling come eighty three eighty four when now like you

1445
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:57,880
Speaker 1: basically help heilm the blues like you can't copyright one

1446
01:15:58,160 --> 01:15:59,559
Speaker 1: four five chords.

1447
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:02,840
Speaker 2: But you know I didn't. I had no problem with it.

1448
01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:06,240
Speaker 2: I just didn't want to repeat myself. Everyone else was

1449
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:08,280
Speaker 2: repeating it. I didn't want to do it to the

1450
01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:12,920
Speaker 2: extent that when Michael Johnson brought me Pack Jam to

1451
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:16,559
Speaker 2: put out on my label, I said, nah, that's give it.

1452
01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:19,200
Speaker 2: I gave it to Tommy boy which was Pack Jam. Well,

1453
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:22,360
Speaker 2: I just said, you know that's a Tommy BOYD record.

1454
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:25,400
Speaker 1: Tell me about Michael Johnson and all right. So when

1455
01:16:25,439 --> 01:16:29,800
Speaker 1: we first heard Candy Girl, like, we ran with that

1456
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:31,920
Speaker 1: lie so quick. We just thought it was Michael Jackson.

1457
01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:36,120
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson, Michael produced this.

1458
01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:41,360
Speaker 2: You heard Michael Jackson. Michael was Michael Johnson.

1459
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:48,120
Speaker 1: So tell me about Michael Johnson's role in Boston Folkalore and.

1460
01:16:48,200 --> 01:16:50,639
Speaker 2: Well, Michael and Maurice, so they were.

1461
01:16:53,120 --> 01:16:56,880
Speaker 1: Was he always dressing like a captain? No, okay, that

1462
01:16:57,120 --> 01:16:57,559
Speaker 1: that became.

1463
01:16:58,120 --> 01:17:03,000
Speaker 2: That became he wanted to be like Colonel Tom Parker, right. No,

1464
01:17:03,280 --> 01:17:07,880
Speaker 2: I mean I met their brother Sonny Donnie Johnson at

1465
01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:10,719
Speaker 2: the studio at in the Media, and then I met

1466
01:17:10,840 --> 01:17:13,600
Speaker 2: those guys and I started using them on my records,

1467
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:16,439
Speaker 2: Michael and Maurice, and they the two of them the

1468
01:17:16,439 --> 01:17:18,920
Speaker 2: most talented people I had ever met, because they could

1469
01:17:18,920 --> 01:17:23,719
Speaker 2: play everything. Michael could play sacks, drums, guitar, they played

1470
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:26,280
Speaker 2: literally everything. And I try to get them a record

1471
01:17:26,360 --> 01:17:30,120
Speaker 2: deal with Howard Smiley from t K and we saw

1472
01:17:30,160 --> 01:17:31,799
Speaker 2: them and it was just like it was too close

1473
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:34,880
Speaker 2: to the Jackson's. It was like the Johnson brothers, but

1474
01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:38,160
Speaker 2: they were really talented, and they were but they weren't original.

1475
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:42,280
Speaker 2: They could write things that sounded like they have tracks

1476
01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:44,800
Speaker 2: that they've done that I have the demos sounds like

1477
01:17:44,800 --> 01:17:48,400
Speaker 2: the beg's but they're like hits, but they sound literally

1478
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:58,200
Speaker 2: just like yes, sounded like something else. Yeah. Well, Bark's

1479
01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:02,400
Speaker 2: second generation first generation Soul's finger come on, those were

1480
01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:04,280
Speaker 2: pretty creative.

1481
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:08,599
Speaker 1: Right, but also yeah, okay, Soul figure, I'll give them.

1482
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:10,360
Speaker 1: But literally all.

1483
01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:12,800
Speaker 2: The other cameo. It could have been earth wind and

1484
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:13,320
Speaker 2: fire and could.

1485
01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:15,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. But the thing is also like when you're and

1486
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:18,160
Speaker 1: I get it, Like my dad explained to me that,

1487
01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:20,040
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of these guys are bar bands,

1488
01:18:20,040 --> 01:18:21,519
Speaker 1: house bands. You have to learn.

1489
01:18:21,479 --> 01:18:23,280
Speaker 2: All that covers. Yeah, exactly everything.

1490
01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:25,680
Speaker 1: I think now there's at least seven thousand songs in

1491
01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:28,599
Speaker 1: our cannon since I've been at the tonight show. Wow. Well,

1492
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:30,640
Speaker 1: I mean back then we were like, oh god, like

1493
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:35,320
Speaker 1: like fifteen no. No, literally, I would just put a

1494
01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:38,760
Speaker 1: song on shuffle whoever it is, and I'll play for

1495
01:18:38,760 --> 01:18:42,000
Speaker 1: ten seconds, stop it right, and be like all right,

1496
01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:46,200
Speaker 1: let's go three notes under, and I will code to

1497
01:18:46,240 --> 01:18:48,880
Speaker 1: the member of the roots that is not too strong

1498
01:18:48,920 --> 01:18:53,599
Speaker 1: in dictation, like if you tell me, I'll say better

1499
01:18:53,600 --> 01:18:57,519
Speaker 1: about you go to my keyboard, play right, I'll and

1500
01:18:57,520 --> 01:18:57,840
Speaker 1: he'll do.

1501
01:18:58,960 --> 01:18:59,040
Speaker 2: So.

1502
01:18:59,160 --> 01:19:01,960
Speaker 1: I purposely go to him that might not pay attention

1503
01:19:02,720 --> 01:19:05,040
Speaker 1: and he'll come up with something else and then that's

1504
01:19:05,080 --> 01:19:08,640
Speaker 1: where we build the foundation. And so but I understand that,

1505
01:19:08,720 --> 01:19:10,960
Speaker 1: but wow, I would love to hear the demos.

1506
01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:14,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I meet them, and basically I moved to New

1507
01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:17,639
Speaker 2: York and we're still friends and they're playing on my records, right,

1508
01:19:18,479 --> 01:19:24,320
Speaker 2: and then Maurice comes. Here's where I guess Michael actually

1509
01:19:25,080 --> 01:19:30,360
Speaker 2: brought me the Johnson Crew pac Man. It was called

1510
01:19:30,360 --> 01:19:32,920
Speaker 2: it first, and he brought it to.

1511
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:36,000
Speaker 1: Me to sort of capitalize off a video game called

1512
01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:37,520
Speaker 1: Course Yeah damn.

1513
01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:39,479
Speaker 2: Okay he and then he claimed he didn't know about

1514
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:42,200
Speaker 2: the video game. I mean really yeah, but it wasn't true.

1515
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:45,080
Speaker 1: Okay. So there was also a tribute song, yeah, called

1516
01:19:45,120 --> 01:19:46,880
Speaker 1: pac Man Fever that came out that was like a

1517
01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:47,400
Speaker 1: massive hit.

1518
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:49,640
Speaker 2: But so he brings it to me and I'm like,

1519
01:19:49,880 --> 01:19:53,080
Speaker 2: let Tom hear it. So Tom signed it. I also

1520
01:19:53,120 --> 01:19:57,280
Speaker 2: gave Tom the four mds too. We went to Bronx

1521
01:19:57,400 --> 01:20:01,600
Speaker 2: River Center, me and Tom bringing and girl the Acetate

1522
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:05,400
Speaker 2: and test pressing for Bambada and Jazzy Jay, and they

1523
01:20:05,439 --> 01:20:10,320
Speaker 2: played it and obviously everyone went mental, right, and then

1524
01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:13,920
Speaker 2: for some they were called the Four Seas. Then they

1525
01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:15,880
Speaker 2: come out and do a set and we're both going, wow,

1526
01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:18,240
Speaker 2: they're really good, and I go, yeah, but I have

1527
01:20:18,360 --> 01:20:22,280
Speaker 2: new additions, so Tom you can have them. I mean, wow, yeah, you.

1528
01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:24,639
Speaker 1: Did him a solid Yeah, how long does it take

1529
01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:27,040
Speaker 1: for you? Like, how do you coach kids?

1530
01:20:27,200 --> 01:20:29,960
Speaker 2: How do I coach him? I have Maurice coach them.

1531
01:20:30,040 --> 01:20:32,599
Speaker 2: So basically, they're coming to New York and Michael gave

1532
01:20:32,640 --> 01:20:34,920
Speaker 2: me pack jam. I came it to Tom and then

1533
01:20:34,960 --> 01:20:38,160
Speaker 2: Maurice is like staying at my I'm living in Cobble

1534
01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:41,960
Speaker 2: Hill in Brooklyn, rented an apartment from mel Sharon west

1535
01:20:42,040 --> 01:20:46,280
Speaker 2: End records his apartment and Maurice one night he's staying

1536
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:48,640
Speaker 2: over and he comes back and he's really sad and

1537
01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:51,760
Speaker 2: like Maurice is always just like he's a real hype man,

1538
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:53,920
Speaker 2: you know, he's like always, And I go, what's wrong?

1539
01:20:53,960 --> 01:20:55,920
Speaker 2: He said, Oh, I got this song and I brought

1540
01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:59,479
Speaker 2: it to Sylvia Robinson and she turned me down. And

1541
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:02,080
Speaker 2: I brought it to Sylvia Roane and she turned me down.

1542
01:21:02,400 --> 01:21:03,960
Speaker 2: And I said, well, I got a label. Man, let

1543
01:21:04,040 --> 01:21:05,800
Speaker 2: me hear it. And he put on the cassette and

1544
01:21:05,800 --> 01:21:08,320
Speaker 2: it was Candy Girl. I was like, you got a

1545
01:21:08,360 --> 01:21:12,880
Speaker 2: record deal. And my partner flew back to Boston with

1546
01:21:13,040 --> 01:21:14,559
Speaker 2: them and we signed the deal.

1547
01:21:14,680 --> 01:21:16,519
Speaker 1: How fast did this session take?

1548
01:21:17,040 --> 01:21:23,760
Speaker 2: We went right to the album because they yeah, yeah, yeah,

1549
01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:26,240
Speaker 2: you did all that we did a whole album. Yeah,

1550
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:28,120
Speaker 2: I mean he had, he had demos, but I said,

1551
01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:31,320
Speaker 2: let's get an album. We went right to the album.

1552
01:21:31,400 --> 01:21:35,240
Speaker 1: Did you instantly feel like you're going to strike hole? Yeah?

1553
01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:37,200
Speaker 2: You were a kid, you already you thought it was

1554
01:21:37,240 --> 01:21:37,559
Speaker 2: a hit.

1555
01:21:37,760 --> 01:21:39,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, no, no, no, we knew, we knew.

1556
01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:43,559
Speaker 2: I mean I couldn't believe that Sylvia Robinson turned it down.

1557
01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:47,120
Speaker 2: I mean, think about that. That's can you imagine New

1558
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:50,000
Speaker 2: Edition on? Well, actually New Edition sort of did end

1559
01:21:50,080 --> 01:21:52,160
Speaker 2: up with them when Morrise Levey.

1560
01:21:52,360 --> 01:21:58,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, so why didn't they stick with you once they

1561
01:21:58,360 --> 01:21:59,080
Speaker 1: signed the mc A.

1562
01:21:59,400 --> 01:22:02,200
Speaker 2: No, No, the thing this is I'll give you like

1563
01:22:02,320 --> 01:22:05,840
Speaker 2: this is like this is a real deal. Okay, we

1564
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:10,240
Speaker 2: didn't sign the group. We signed a production deal with Maurice.

1565
01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:14,240
Speaker 2: Maurice had them signed and we signed a deal with him,

1566
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:16,360
Speaker 2: which was common back then. That was the way it

1567
01:22:16,439 --> 01:22:18,960
Speaker 2: was done. He came to us and said I'd have

1568
01:22:19,040 --> 01:22:23,920
Speaker 2: this group. We didn't think it through far enough to

1569
01:22:24,320 --> 01:22:27,880
Speaker 2: know that we should have got lawyers and made but

1570
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:30,200
Speaker 2: we signed a deal with him, which was really common.

1571
01:22:30,280 --> 01:22:32,880
Speaker 2: If if I was a producer when I was doing

1572
01:22:32,920 --> 01:22:35,240
Speaker 2: a record and there was a singer, I'd give the

1573
01:22:35,280 --> 01:22:39,120
Speaker 2: singer the deal, I'd own the record, I'd own the production,

1574
01:22:39,760 --> 01:22:43,040
Speaker 2: and the record label would pay me, and I was

1575
01:22:43,080 --> 01:22:46,120
Speaker 2: meant to pay the group. Now. The only thing that

1576
01:22:46,160 --> 01:22:48,960
Speaker 2: went wrong with this was they were kids, and in

1577
01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:53,839
Speaker 2: Massachusetts the laws were that. Literally they signed the contract

1578
01:22:53,880 --> 01:22:59,320
Speaker 2: before they were they were now in New York. Fast

1579
01:22:59,360 --> 01:23:01,760
Speaker 2: forward if you years when he did New Kids on

1580
01:23:01,800 --> 01:23:05,280
Speaker 2: the Block, he came to New York recorded at my

1581
01:23:05,479 --> 01:23:08,680
Speaker 2: studio and he was able to sign them under New

1582
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:12,320
Speaker 2: York law, which was, yeah, you could you could have.

1583
01:23:12,439 --> 01:23:13,840
Speaker 1: Did you work on New Kids on the Block.

1584
01:23:13,920 --> 01:23:16,400
Speaker 2: No, he just worked in my studio.

1585
01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:16,920
Speaker 1: Damn it.

1586
01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:19,000
Speaker 2: Did a remix. I did the right stuff. I did

1587
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:20,560
Speaker 2: a few remixes for him.

1588
01:23:21,040 --> 01:23:23,240
Speaker 1: But even with him, did I think New Kids on

1589
01:23:23,240 --> 01:23:24,519
Speaker 1: the Block did you think like you?

1590
01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:28,160
Speaker 2: Well, I never doubted him at that point. I didn't

1591
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:30,559
Speaker 2: doubt him, you know, you know I mean, but I'm

1592
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:33,880
Speaker 2: just saying, so that's why would the kids always say

1593
01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:37,439
Speaker 2: when when new editions say, oh, they gave us VHS players,

1594
01:23:37,560 --> 01:23:40,320
Speaker 2: We gave them VHS machine so they could watch their

1595
01:23:40,400 --> 01:23:42,600
Speaker 2: videos because they didn't have them. I mean, it's just

1596
01:23:42,720 --> 01:23:46,040
Speaker 2: the whole stories. And and literally we signed the deal

1597
01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:48,679
Speaker 2: with Maurice and Michael. We didn't sign it with them,

1598
01:23:49,080 --> 01:23:51,880
Speaker 2: so any of their anger and shit should have gone

1599
01:23:51,960 --> 01:23:55,479
Speaker 2: to them, got it, And you know that never gets really.

1600
01:23:55,880 --> 01:23:57,840
Speaker 1: All the time. We signed a production deal in that

1601
01:23:57,840 --> 01:24:00,920
Speaker 1: directly to the and that was the you know by

1602
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:04,280
Speaker 1: this point, by eighty three, eighty four, Yeah, I know

1603
01:24:04,400 --> 01:24:08,120
Speaker 1: you got at least have five good, could have had him,

1604
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:12,960
Speaker 1: could have got away. Who well, I just told you

1605
01:24:11,880 --> 01:24:17,600
Speaker 1: to give me three biz Marky, how did you come into.

1606
01:24:17,560 --> 01:24:21,320
Speaker 2: Mister Magic brought him to shakedown? Mister Magic was sort

1607
01:24:21,360 --> 01:24:23,679
Speaker 2: of repping him, he was his manager at the time,

1608
01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:28,479
Speaker 2: and h we went in the studio to do a demo. Okay,

1609
01:24:29,120 --> 01:24:31,600
Speaker 2: this is probably eighty five, you know, it was not

1610
01:24:31,680 --> 01:24:36,320
Speaker 2: eighty three. This was after Beach Street. Well, Beach Street.

1611
01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:40,000
Speaker 2: Dougie Fresh he was in Beach Street and we try

1612
01:24:40,040 --> 01:24:43,200
Speaker 2: to sign him, and then someone else, David lu Casey,

1613
01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:47,040
Speaker 2: who was like our promo guy, ended up signing.

1614
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:49,240
Speaker 1: Him to Reality.

1615
01:24:50,120 --> 01:24:53,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and damn you could have I missed him.

1616
01:24:53,439 --> 01:24:55,080
Speaker 2: I missed biz Marcky.

1617
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:57,840
Speaker 1: At the time. Did you think, like I know what

1618
01:24:57,880 --> 01:24:58,839
Speaker 1: to do with this guy.

1619
01:24:58,720 --> 01:25:02,920
Speaker 2: Or no, I was not. I was on drugs, Okay

1620
01:25:03,200 --> 01:25:04,640
Speaker 2: that I was cocaine.

1621
01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:08,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was not that part.

1622
01:25:07,840 --> 01:25:11,080
Speaker 2: Of the Yeah, I was not. I was not too

1623
01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:14,559
Speaker 2: clear minded. But we he came in the studio and

1624
01:25:14,760 --> 01:25:18,440
Speaker 2: Keith LeBlanc happened to be there, and Keith made beats

1625
01:25:18,479 --> 01:25:22,200
Speaker 2: to give him a click track. So he's rapping and recently,

1626
01:25:22,320 --> 01:25:24,639
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel sort of bad how this turned out,

1627
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:27,800
Speaker 2: but now it's actually I've turned it around. I auctioned

1628
01:25:28,040 --> 01:25:30,920
Speaker 2: that tape off with what was on that tape, the

1629
01:25:30,960 --> 01:25:34,160
Speaker 2: biz Marcky tape. Okay, but here's the thing. His wife

1630
01:25:34,479 --> 01:25:37,360
Speaker 2: won the auction, so I felt really bad that I

1631
01:25:37,439 --> 01:25:39,639
Speaker 2: took her money, but you know, I had to pay

1632
01:25:39,640 --> 01:25:43,599
Speaker 2: for my documentary, so auctioning things. But now we're friends

1633
01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:45,639
Speaker 2: and I'm trying to help her get that out as

1634
01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:47,599
Speaker 2: a as a record as something.

1635
01:25:47,680 --> 01:25:49,439
Speaker 1: So it's a complete song Laurence, well.

1636
01:25:49,320 --> 01:25:53,040
Speaker 2: It's five or six different it's a lot of his

1637
01:25:53,200 --> 01:25:56,240
Speaker 2: things that became songs later on. But he does a

1638
01:25:56,360 --> 01:25:58,599
Speaker 2: rap thing about New York. I mean, it's good. There's

1639
01:25:58,640 --> 01:25:59,320
Speaker 2: some stuff on that.

1640
01:25:59,400 --> 01:25:59,960
Speaker 1: I got to hear this.

1641
01:26:00,080 --> 01:26:02,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to hear that, but I missed that.

1642
01:26:02,200 --> 01:26:05,000
Speaker 2: And then obviously famously now is Mariah.

1643
01:26:05,080 --> 01:26:07,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, so at the time did you.

1644
01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:10,120
Speaker 2: I thought she was going to be the biggest star

1645
01:26:10,160 --> 01:26:10,679
Speaker 2: in the world.

1646
01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:12,880
Speaker 1: Okay, so this is what I'm saying now that we're

1647
01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:16,160
Speaker 1: in such an era, and I'm not saying that there's

1648
01:26:16,160 --> 01:26:18,720
Speaker 1: a lack of talent, you know, but it's just so

1649
01:26:18,800 --> 01:26:20,120
Speaker 1: much information fat show.

1650
01:26:20,240 --> 01:26:23,280
Speaker 2: Also, really I missed on that. I sent that to

1651
01:26:23,360 --> 01:26:26,240
Speaker 2: Monica because I didn't have a label at the time.

1652
01:26:26,360 --> 01:26:29,439
Speaker 2: It wasn't you know. He came to my apartment in

1653
01:26:29,800 --> 01:26:33,200
Speaker 2: the Upper West Side, was sitting on the floor playing cassette.

1654
01:26:33,240 --> 01:26:36,920
Speaker 2: He probably doesn't even remember, but him also and what stories.

1655
01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:41,200
Speaker 1: He'll remember for me, Like right now, with this new

1656
01:26:41,280 --> 01:26:44,479
Speaker 1: year about to come up, like twenty twenty six, I

1657
01:26:44,560 --> 01:26:48,559
Speaker 1: will say that maybe I have expectations to hear maybe

1658
01:26:49,080 --> 01:26:55,000
Speaker 1: three songs I like, which coming from a person.

1659
01:26:55,840 --> 01:26:58,439
Speaker 2: Three songs you like all year are this year.

1660
01:26:58,840 --> 01:27:03,840
Speaker 1: I don't know if the bandwidin me has slowed down,

1661
01:27:04,960 --> 01:27:07,880
Speaker 1: Like I'll hear three songs in which is like word

1662
01:27:08,320 --> 01:27:13,240
Speaker 1: or sad enough. Maybe there'll be two artists that are

1663
01:27:13,280 --> 01:27:16,840
Speaker 1: really good. The song might not hit me, but in

1664
01:27:16,880 --> 01:27:19,599
Speaker 1: my mind I'll imagine, like, yeah, they came out eighty five,

1665
01:27:20,000 --> 01:27:22,599
Speaker 1: this would have changed my life for that sort of thing.

1666
01:27:22,960 --> 01:27:25,760
Speaker 1: And I'm trying not to get to that. You know

1667
01:27:25,880 --> 01:27:30,439
Speaker 1: that that grumpy I'm my dad thing. But I mean,

1668
01:27:30,600 --> 01:27:36,000
Speaker 1: back then everyone had mind blowing talent, So like, how

1669
01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:39,680
Speaker 1: do you know that this person, Mariah Carey might just

1670
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:41,559
Speaker 1: be a step above.

1671
01:27:42,240 --> 01:27:45,360
Speaker 2: She was writing her own songs first of all, and

1672
01:27:45,439 --> 01:27:47,679
Speaker 2: that was just unheard of back then. Well, I've gotten

1673
01:27:47,720 --> 01:27:50,040
Speaker 2: slagged off of this, but I said she when I

1674
01:27:50,080 --> 01:27:53,360
Speaker 2: heard her, she sounded like Whitney and she wrote songs

1675
01:27:53,400 --> 01:27:55,880
Speaker 2: like Madonna. That's what I thought in my mind, that.

1676
01:27:55,800 --> 01:27:57,080
Speaker 1: She has a pop gift.

1677
01:27:57,280 --> 01:27:59,960
Speaker 2: When I heard that, that's what I thought. I thought, literally,

1678
01:28:01,080 --> 01:28:04,120
Speaker 2: voice like Whitney, writing songs like Madonna.

1679
01:28:04,160 --> 01:28:06,400
Speaker 1: I totally get what you's And I was like, oh my.

1680
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:08,320
Speaker 2: God, Tommy Matola got the tape too.

1681
01:28:08,479 --> 01:28:10,160
Speaker 1: You know, where would you have taken her?

1682
01:28:10,240 --> 01:28:12,160
Speaker 2: Well, I was trying to take her to Warners, I

1683
01:28:12,200 --> 01:28:14,400
Speaker 2: was trying to take her to MCA. I mean, I

1684
01:28:14,560 --> 01:28:17,000
Speaker 2: did attempt to it, but Tommy was so you know,

1685
01:28:17,040 --> 01:28:18,400
Speaker 2: he had a lot more power.

1686
01:28:18,280 --> 01:28:19,519
Speaker 1: You know, got it.

1687
01:28:20,160 --> 01:28:22,479
Speaker 2: But I knew, I knew it isn't like you know,

1688
01:28:22,560 --> 01:28:25,679
Speaker 2: I didn't go home to my wife at the time,

1689
01:28:25,760 --> 01:28:30,000
Speaker 2: another my second wife, and say this girl's uh, I knew.

1690
01:28:30,160 --> 01:28:32,000
Speaker 2: I mean, there's no way you If you hear this

1691
01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:35,240
Speaker 2: tape and you put yourself back in time, you'll go,

1692
01:28:35,320 --> 01:28:37,639
Speaker 2: oh shit, because they all I mean, they all sound

1693
01:28:37,720 --> 01:28:39,920
Speaker 2: like and the production was great too. You know, it

1694
01:28:40,000 --> 01:28:43,040
Speaker 2: was just really it was there, the mut it was there.

1695
01:28:43,200 --> 01:28:46,120
Speaker 1: Okay, So look, obviously this is going to go to

1696
01:28:46,240 --> 01:28:49,439
Speaker 1: Jimmy jam levels where the six could be seven hours.

1697
01:28:49,439 --> 01:28:51,599
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna have to do a part two. Okay

1698
01:28:51,680 --> 01:28:55,480
Speaker 1: for you, you're gonna have to stop at two hours. However, Yeah, inclosing,

1699
01:28:56,439 --> 01:28:58,120
Speaker 1: can you give me a marsh Leavey story.

1700
01:28:59,280 --> 01:29:04,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, more what you can't teach you. He teached me,

1701
01:29:04,720 --> 01:29:07,439
Speaker 2: don't get into partnership with the mafia. That's what he

1702
01:29:07,520 --> 01:29:12,519
Speaker 2: taught me. Here's the thing, Tommy Mottola, this is before Mariah.

1703
01:29:12,600 --> 01:29:16,240
Speaker 2: This is like when I'm working with Holland. Okay, Tommy

1704
01:29:16,520 --> 01:29:21,040
Speaker 2: is my manager also, so he's my manager during that era,

1705
01:29:21,800 --> 01:29:25,880
Speaker 2: and through him, I would meet you know, we'd go

1706
01:29:25,960 --> 01:29:28,720
Speaker 2: down to the Feast and Little Italy and we'd go

1707
01:29:28,760 --> 01:29:30,800
Speaker 2: to places. You know, I was like hanging out with

1708
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:34,800
Speaker 2: him and the priests and the you know, some friends. Yeah,

1709
01:29:34,960 --> 01:29:39,480
Speaker 2: our friends. And when street Wise was about to go bust.

1710
01:29:39,600 --> 01:29:42,160
Speaker 2: We got because we had given so much credit out

1711
01:29:42,240 --> 01:29:45,680
Speaker 2: for the new edition album right that basically people were

1712
01:29:45,720 --> 01:29:48,519
Speaker 2: going under with our money. So like you give someone

1713
01:29:48,520 --> 01:29:51,880
Speaker 2: one hundred grands worth of credit because they're going to buy,

1714
01:29:52,360 --> 01:29:54,960
Speaker 2: you know, twenty thousand new edition albums.

1715
01:29:55,520 --> 01:29:58,400
Speaker 1: So you're saying that even having a successful record could

1716
01:29:58,439 --> 01:29:58,920
Speaker 1: also be a.

1717
01:29:58,840 --> 01:30:01,080
Speaker 2: Curse, Well, it could you out of business if you

1718
01:30:01,200 --> 01:30:04,680
Speaker 2: if you're not smart enough. Yeah, I know, you're so successful,

1719
01:30:05,360 --> 01:30:07,120
Speaker 2: and then you go out of business and you can't

1720
01:30:07,160 --> 01:30:09,639
Speaker 2: pay You can't pay the artists. The only people are

1721
01:30:09,640 --> 01:30:12,760
Speaker 2: making the money of the of the distributor who's gone

1722
01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:15,800
Speaker 2: out of business and kept all the cash. That's what

1723
01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:19,680
Speaker 2: would happen. Okay, But basically we're going under. And then

1724
01:30:19,760 --> 01:30:23,920
Speaker 2: somehow I'm connected with Morris Levy about he wants to

1725
01:30:23,960 --> 01:30:28,720
Speaker 2: buy into the label, obviously him thinking new addition, I'm

1726
01:30:28,760 --> 01:30:32,559
Speaker 2: sure I was off my face on cocaine, so you know,

1727
01:30:32,920 --> 01:30:35,960
Speaker 2: and Tommy said, no, man. The one piece of advice

1728
01:30:36,080 --> 01:30:39,160
Speaker 2: Matola gave me that I should have listened to that

1729
01:30:39,240 --> 01:30:42,720
Speaker 2: I didn't was don't go into partnership with him. Well,

1730
01:30:42,760 --> 01:30:45,639
Speaker 2: not not that it really not that anything bad happened

1731
01:30:45,680 --> 01:30:48,599
Speaker 2: other than I lost everything, you know, and.

1732
01:30:48,600 --> 01:30:54,640
Speaker 1: He a strong arm, but not no, not with me.

1733
01:30:54,840 --> 01:30:57,960
Speaker 2: No, no, he would have just rip you off. Well no,

1734
01:30:58,439 --> 01:31:03,080
Speaker 2: I mean his technique would charming guy to me. I'd

1735
01:31:03,080 --> 01:31:05,280
Speaker 2: go in and he would know, he had to know

1736
01:31:05,360 --> 01:31:08,120
Speaker 2: I was coked out, you know. And basically I'd go

1737
01:31:08,160 --> 01:31:10,800
Speaker 2: into his office and there'd be all these guys and

1738
01:31:11,320 --> 01:31:15,120
Speaker 2: with the gold and it was the Sopranos. Literally they

1739
01:31:15,120 --> 01:31:17,760
Speaker 2: were there. They were all in his office and he'd

1740
01:31:17,800 --> 01:31:20,960
Speaker 2: be telling stories. And he told me one story about

1741
01:31:21,000 --> 01:31:26,200
Speaker 2: Tommy James. Now, Tommy James was a junkie, but Tommy

1742
01:31:26,280 --> 01:31:30,240
Speaker 2: James was on Roulette and making all these great hit records.

1743
01:31:30,479 --> 01:31:34,240
Speaker 1: Tommy James, Yeah, I.

1744
01:31:34,200 --> 01:31:37,360
Speaker 2: Mean, come on, those are multimillion selling records. So he

1745
01:31:37,439 --> 01:31:39,720
Speaker 2: wanted to get them clean up because he wanted them

1746
01:31:39,720 --> 01:31:43,599
Speaker 2: to keep producing for the company, right, So he had

1747
01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:46,160
Speaker 2: him go up to the farm, his horse farm, like

1748
01:31:46,240 --> 01:31:48,800
Speaker 2: Hish had. He did have a horse farm. I went

1749
01:31:48,840 --> 01:31:51,840
Speaker 2: to the horse farm. He had them go up and

1750
01:31:52,000 --> 01:31:55,640
Speaker 2: he went cold turkey and he's like yeah, and we

1751
01:31:55,760 --> 01:31:59,080
Speaker 2: cleaned them up and then he never had another fucking hit.

1752
01:32:01,240 --> 01:32:03,040
Speaker 2: And that was the story. And I was like, oh shit,

1753
01:32:03,240 --> 01:32:07,840
Speaker 2: is this aimed at me? And then and then we

1754
01:32:07,880 --> 01:32:11,360
Speaker 2: had a blind bid for the label and he said,

1755
01:32:11,400 --> 01:32:13,920
Speaker 2: you know, I don't want to be partners anymore, and

1756
01:32:13,960 --> 01:32:17,400
Speaker 2: he outbid me. And it was I lost the whole

1757
01:32:17,439 --> 01:32:19,960
Speaker 2: thing and the new addition, you know, it was that's

1758
01:32:20,040 --> 01:32:24,599
Speaker 2: my main The worst thing in my business life was

1759
01:32:24,720 --> 01:32:25,479
Speaker 2: that situation.

1760
01:32:25,520 --> 01:32:28,599
Speaker 1: All Right, I'm gonna tell you it's not a connected story.

1761
01:32:28,680 --> 01:32:31,679
Speaker 1: But there's a friend of mine who saw the slide

1762
01:32:31,720 --> 01:32:36,360
Speaker 1: doc and you know, instantly I was, I mean, it

1763
01:32:36,400 --> 01:32:39,640
Speaker 1: wasn't like I was expecting across the board's accolades, like

1764
01:32:39,680 --> 01:32:41,599
Speaker 1: so what'd you think? What do you think? Sometimes you'll

1765
01:32:41,640 --> 01:32:44,000
Speaker 1: ask what do you think? Knowing that yeah, you're gonna

1766
01:32:44,000 --> 01:32:47,200
Speaker 1: get praised or whatever. And they kind of shot me

1767
01:32:47,280 --> 01:32:50,519
Speaker 1: with something that stuck with me. They were like, I

1768
01:32:50,520 --> 01:32:53,840
Speaker 1: don't agree with, you know, the moralizing stance about like

1769
01:32:54,000 --> 01:32:59,519
Speaker 1: that drugs destroyed SLY And I was like, no, I've

1770
01:32:59,520 --> 01:33:04,360
Speaker 1: done the recent I think they destroyed SLY. And they

1771
01:33:04,479 --> 01:33:07,760
Speaker 1: left me with a gym that I can't get out

1772
01:33:07,760 --> 01:33:12,640
Speaker 1: of my head. And they basically said, well, according to

1773
01:33:12,760 --> 01:33:18,320
Speaker 1: your movie, if we remove all psychedelics music.

1774
01:33:18,320 --> 01:33:21,320
Speaker 2: The music would suck, you know, maybe.

1775
01:33:20,960 --> 01:33:24,559
Speaker 1: And then I walked away and now I can't, honey,

1776
01:33:24,800 --> 01:33:25,720
Speaker 1: I can't hear.

1777
01:33:26,280 --> 01:33:30,360
Speaker 2: Well, those drugs, I mean, those drugs back then, the

1778
01:33:30,400 --> 01:33:36,240
Speaker 2: psychedelics come on. That definitely made you think outside the box, right, sure, exactly.

1779
01:33:36,280 --> 01:33:41,439
Speaker 2: Cocaine didn't though. Cocaine. There's nothing positive about the cocaine experience.

1780
01:33:41,600 --> 01:33:44,519
Speaker 1: It didn't give you. Listen, I'm not asking this as

1781
01:33:44,600 --> 01:33:47,439
Speaker 1: a as an advocate like no, I would.

1782
01:33:47,600 --> 01:33:50,439
Speaker 2: I would answer you honestly. What it did do is

1783
01:33:50,520 --> 01:33:52,479
Speaker 2: keep you up all night now.

1784
01:33:52,320 --> 01:33:56,439
Speaker 1: Being just where I stay up anyway. Yeah, but that's you, Okay,

1785
01:33:57,160 --> 01:33:57,760
Speaker 1: you know what I mean.

1786
01:33:57,840 --> 01:34:00,519
Speaker 2: It is possible to stand up, and I did afterwards.

1787
01:34:00,560 --> 01:34:04,000
Speaker 2: I didn't stop producing after I stopped cocaine at eighty seven,

1788
01:34:04,400 --> 01:34:07,000
Speaker 2: So it isn't like I did it through the nineties

1789
01:34:07,080 --> 01:34:11,080
Speaker 2: or whatever. I'm just saying, wow, that literally it didn't

1790
01:34:11,360 --> 01:34:14,400
Speaker 2: you know. And what it did do is make your

1791
01:34:14,439 --> 01:34:19,200
Speaker 2: records brighter because everything was dull on cocaine, so you

1792
01:34:19,240 --> 01:34:20,800
Speaker 2: had to push all the high end.

1793
01:34:21,280 --> 01:34:21,599
Speaker 1: Really.

1794
01:34:21,680 --> 01:34:24,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why looking for the Perfect beat has not

1795
01:34:24,479 --> 01:34:27,120
Speaker 2: a lot of low end and it's really bright. Go

1796
01:34:27,200 --> 01:34:28,320
Speaker 2: back and listen to the guy.

1797
01:34:28,760 --> 01:34:31,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, I'm gonna take away from this. Yeah, right,

1798
01:34:31,360 --> 01:34:36,240
Speaker 1: of course, we didn't touch to we never make it right.

1799
01:34:37,840 --> 01:34:38,120
Speaker 2: Street.

1800
01:34:39,320 --> 01:34:42,559
Speaker 1: We are definitely doing a party, but I wanted to

1801
01:34:42,640 --> 01:34:45,720
Speaker 1: end it with at least of marsh Levs and I'm

1802
01:34:45,760 --> 01:34:47,840
Speaker 1: a man of my word. I always wanted to have

1803
01:34:47,920 --> 01:34:50,080
Speaker 1: you on the show because I got a trillion questions

1804
01:34:50,120 --> 01:34:53,120
Speaker 1: and thank you for everything that you've done. I promise

1805
01:34:53,840 --> 01:34:57,920
Speaker 1: a return on the Quest Left Show from the God himself,

1806
01:34:58,080 --> 01:34:59,760
Speaker 1: Arthur Baker. Thank you. We will see you on the

1807
01:34:59,800 --> 01:35:00,320
Speaker 1: very around.

1808
01:35:00,320 --> 01:35:01,599
Speaker 2: It's been great man, Thank you.

1809
01:35:01,520 --> 01:35:08,439
Speaker 1: Thank you. Quest Love Show is hosted by Me Amir

1810
01:35:08,560 --> 01:35:12,920
Speaker 1: quest Love Thompson. The executive producers are Sean g Brian

1811
01:35:13,000 --> 01:35:18,960
Speaker 1: Calhoun and Me. Produced by Britney Benjamin and Jake Payne.

1812
01:35:20,040 --> 01:35:25,160
Speaker 1: Produced for iHeart by Noel Brown, Edited by Alex Conny.

1813
01:35:26,040 --> 01:35:31,519
Speaker 1: iHeart Video support by Mark Canton, Logos graphics and animation

1814
01:35:31,640 --> 01:35:38,400
Speaker 1: by Nick Allowie. Additional support by Lance Colban. Special thanks

1815
01:35:38,439 --> 01:35:45,479
Speaker 1: to Kathy Brown. Special thanks to Sugar Steve Mandel. Please subscribe, rate, review,

1816
01:35:45,560 --> 01:35:49,200
Speaker 1: and share The Quest Love Show wherever you stream your podcast,

1817
01:35:49,680 --> 01:35:52,679
Speaker 1: make sure you follow us on socials and beats. At

1818
01:35:53,280 --> 01:35:58,439
Speaker 1: q LS, we check out hundreds and hundreds of QLs episodes,

1819
01:35:58,479 --> 01:36:01,920
Speaker 1: including The Quest Love Supper, Dream Shows, and our podcast Archives.

1820
01:36:04,560 --> 01:36:21,920
Speaker 1: Quest Show is a production of iHeart radioh