1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: Go. Welcome to NPR. I'm Terry Gross and I'm Terry Grosser. 2 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: Is Terry Gross even doing Is she still doing the pod? 3 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: I don't. She could be dead for all I know. 4 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: Are you going to storm out of this interview the 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: way Adam Driver stormed out of his Terry Gross interview? 6 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: Is that we're calling this an interview? Yes? Okay, this 7 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,319 Speaker 1: is it. This is a stop on your pressed for 8 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: This is the like a virgin special edition, special edition 9 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: RSS feed drop, the rare RSS feed drop, as long 10 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: as we can pressure Phoebe into posting it because neither 11 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,480 Speaker 1: of us know how to do that. Yeah, and it will, 12 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: it will, Yeah, and you know this, this uh formally 13 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: will be the official official Friend and Rose interview about 14 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: a book called Best Woman by Rose DomU. It is 15 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: available and purchasable for pre order on bookshop dot org 16 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: among other websites. You also, if you're in New York, 17 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: you have to come and see Rose and heron Walker 18 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: in conversation at the Strand on September twenty third, really 19 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: chic date, September twenty Russia. You can get your take. 20 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: I think there's like a ticket option with a book 21 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: and a ticket option without a book available in Rose's 22 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: link tree, in her bio or a social Bible. Will 23 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: also put a linked tickets in the description of this 24 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: podcast episode, so you can mosey on over there to 25 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: get your ticket. I want to see you there. I'll 26 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: be there. There's also a Los Angeles event there is 27 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to be in Los Angeles doing an event 28 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: at Annabelle's Book Club on October eighth I'm also going 29 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: to be at Greedy Read's in Baltimore on October second, Baltimore, 30 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: and I'm going to be in both gratone on October eighteenth, 31 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: and literally my entire family and all my mom's friends 32 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,639 Speaker 1: will be there, which I love. And if you're not familiar, 33 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: I mean Deer's Virgins. I know you've heard us talk 34 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: about Rose's book in some capacity or another, basically every 35 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: other episode of the podcast. You know we've been edging. 36 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: We've been edging, edging edge Lords. We are. If you're 37 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: not familiar already with the premise of Roses book, it 38 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 1: does take place in Boca Raton, Florida, or large large 39 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: portions of it take place in book Raton, Florida, where 40 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: Rose is from. I kind of want to give. I 41 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 1: want you to give us a little summary, but like, 42 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: can you start by telling us what Booka Ratone, Florida is, 43 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:52,679 Speaker 1: Like maybe how it influenced your malgoth persona, your your 44 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: personal malgoth persona, and then I guess, kind of how 45 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: does it become the backdrop for this book. Boca Ratone 46 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: is a very weird place, which is why I always 47 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: wanted to write a book that was set there. And 48 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: there's a lot of old people there, So that's Heaven's 49 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: waiting room, God's waiting room. Yes, I know, I've made 50 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: that joke on this podcast several times. Yeah. I mean 51 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: it's a lot of like very affluent people, a lot 52 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 1: of old people, a lot of Jewish people. Ariana Grande 53 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: is from there. Ariana Grande is from there, as am 54 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: I mother Teresa's from there. It's a very weird place 55 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: to be a child, yes, just because everyone so old. 56 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: Like the neighborhood I grew up in, there were no 57 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: other children in. You had no peers, no peers, you 58 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: only had old. I only had old. So I do 59 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: think that really explains a lot why I am the 60 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: way I am kind of does. And there's this kind 61 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: of with the again, we're going to get into the 62 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: plot of the book. But the character of this book, 63 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: Best Woman kind of uh comes in. It kind kind 64 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: of interfaces with the kind of JENSI quad the kind 65 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: of on we of is that's how it's pronounced right 66 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: on on we Yeah, I've did. I used to pronounce 67 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: that anwie yes, yes, the on wee of returning to 68 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: your childhood, returning to your like childhood bedroom, or returning 69 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: to your returning to your hometown, and the just like 70 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: the great sadness, the great and unamable sadness that it 71 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: kind of instills in you, yes, and also the string 72 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: and the kind of immediate regression that happens when you 73 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 1: return home. I noticed for so long that every time 74 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: I would visit home, I would immediately I would like, 75 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: within eight hours, I would become fifteen again, and I 76 00:04:55,680 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 1: would be like, oh mom, And that is such a 77 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: tense experience. It's so weird to go somewhere where everybody 78 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: knows you, but like no one actually really knows you. Yeah. 79 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 1: And it's like so that the primary character, Julia, she 80 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 1: kind of comes home specifically for a wedding, and in 81 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: she's kind of immediately reminded of like a lot of 82 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: like I want to say, like ghosts. That sounds like 83 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: a little more dramatic than it actually is. But there's 84 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: a lot of these kind of ghosts of her, of 85 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: her past, of her growing up, of just like what 86 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: it felt like to be in Boca that I think 87 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: are very I just related to them part, even though 88 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: because I'm from a suburb, I don't know if Bocaca. Okay, 89 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: so I'm from this I'm kind of from the suburbs. 90 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 1: I was born on the South Side, was raised in 91 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: the suburbs. And there's this just kind of like really 92 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: weird dissonance that you experience, especially I mean definitely as 93 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: a queer person, especially as a transperson reinstating yourself in 94 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: this context. Anyways, Okay, I'm being very terrogressed right now, 95 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 1: but will you do me the honor of giving a 96 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: plot summary for the people that are not awareer of 97 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: the of course. So Best Woman is about Julia Rosenberg, 98 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: who is a trans woman in her late twenties living 99 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:26,559 Speaker 1: in New York City. She is a couple of years 100 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: into her transition. Right before she started transitioning, her brother 101 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: got engaged and asked her to be the best man 102 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: at his wedding, and then when she transitioned, she became 103 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 1: the best woman, the best woman. At the beginning of 104 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: the novel, she's a couple of weeks out from the 105 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:51,799 Speaker 1: wedding and going to get her best woman dress, best 106 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: woman dress. And I've never actually done this thing that 107 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: happens in the book, which is like the appointment to 108 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: get your dress that everyone has to wear. Yeah, ever 109 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: done that either, But I've watched a lot of says 110 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 1: to the dress, so I feel like I have an 111 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: understanding of it. Okay. So she finds out that early 112 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: in the novel that the maid of honor in her 113 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: brother's wedding has dropped out. Slash been kicked out because 114 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: she was uncomfortable with the idea of walking down the 115 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:29,679 Speaker 1: aisle with Julia because she is transphobic, and now replacing 116 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: the maid of honor is Kim Cameron, Julia's number one 117 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: ultimate high school crush, who is a very hot, sexy, 118 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: confident lesbian. As a reader, this is this is the 119 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: part where you realize that this book is an entry 120 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: into the sapphic kind of romance canon. Yes, it is 121 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: truly a lesbian romance. What's a bisexual Bulia. Julia is 122 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: by sexual and she does. She does have a male 123 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: love interest in the novel too, who's more of just 124 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: like a hometown hookup. Because she is she is a 125 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: chaotic bisexual slut and I love her for that. So 126 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: what the tension of the novel kind of hinges of is. 127 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: During an early interaction where Julia has seen Kim again, 128 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: she makes the mistake of telling this little white lie, 129 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: which is that her family is actually more transphobic transphobic 130 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: than they actually are. They're actually pretty accepting. She does 131 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: this in a very misguided bid to gain Kim's sympathy 132 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: to her. Yes, because of an interaction that they have, 133 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: and and because she is kind of at this place 134 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: in her transition where she feels like she has accomplished 135 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: a lot of her goals and feels affirmed in a 136 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: lot of ways. But this girl kind of represents this 137 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: like last hurdle of her womanhood, which is this lesbian 138 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: who she was obsessed with in high school and knew 139 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: she would never be able to get because at that 140 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: time she presented as male. And so she has this 141 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: idea that if she's able to successfully you know, kind 142 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: of con this girl into likely lightly but con into 143 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:45,359 Speaker 1: being interested in her romantically. Then that will be proof 144 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: that she really is the woman she has always wanted 145 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: to be and seen herself as. This is very much 146 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:58,719 Speaker 1: inspired by my best friend's wedding, and you know, the 147 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:04,959 Speaker 1: idea of a very unlikable protagonist who lies and makes 148 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: bad decisions to get what she wants. And I really 149 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: wanted to see a trans character be able to do 150 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: that because I feel like in a lot of a 151 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: lot of media depictions of trans people they have to 152 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: be either like saints or victims or a murderers, And 153 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: I wanted to see a really complicated trans protagonist who 154 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: you just kind of want to shake and go what 155 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:30,959 Speaker 1: are you doing? Like are you doing? I very much 156 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: see Julia as like a little sister. I'm like, what 157 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: is wrong with you? So that is the setup, and 158 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: then the bulk of the novel takes place over the 159 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: wedding week in book ratone, as Julia reunites with her family, 160 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: all while staying connected to her friends back in New 161 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: York City who are like very much her chosen family. 162 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: And there's a really big cast of kooky characters, shenanigans, En, Sue, 163 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:05,319 Speaker 1: and there's some steamy hookups and some very painful growth 164 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:09,319 Speaker 1: for lots of the people involved. I don't want to 165 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: give too much of the book away, but I want 166 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: to dig a little bit more into the plot in that. So, 167 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: as you mentioned, there's this the the thematic tension kind 168 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: of starts with this, uh this, like, I guess, like 169 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: not so great choice of emotionally manipulating her high school 170 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: crush Kim Cameron at a cheesecake factory. And a dream 171 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,439 Speaker 1: of mine was always to set a scene in a 172 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: novel at factory. And I did it, and you did it, 173 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: and it felt like I was there. Maybe we never 174 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: had our cheesecake factory day, remember when we were supposed 175 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: to have our our like a virgin holiday party, but 176 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: we couldn't because what COVID something like that like that. 177 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, so so the the all of the tension 178 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:12,559 Speaker 1: kind of starts in this moment where like Julia decides 179 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: to lie and save her family's a little transphobic, and 180 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: it kind of works immediately and Kim Cameron has all 181 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: of this cis guilt that like she like soaks the 182 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: conversation and being like, oh my god, you I mean 183 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,559 Speaker 1: she's not like you, poor thing. But the affect is 184 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: very like you poor thing. It's very the subtext is 185 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: very You're so brave, and you're so brave, and oh, 186 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 1: I want to take care of you, and oh, this 187 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: is like maybe feeding already a kind of funny romantic 188 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:44,559 Speaker 1: dynamic as well, because it is immediately I would say 189 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: it's I think it's pretty clear from jump that Kim 190 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: is into Julia, like she kind of said she she 191 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: all but says that that's a possibility, but it's also 192 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 1: it's like like with in terms of like her actions, 193 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: but it's also like she doesn't. It's not immediately, do 194 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Well, it's I think it's 195 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: more so that Kim's interest is very clear, but Julia 196 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:15,959 Speaker 1: can't or won't let herself believe it. She can't trust it, 197 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: and she thinks that this manipulation of the truth is 198 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: kind of justified because this girl will never organically like 199 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: her when the evidence is staring her right in the face. 200 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: And you know, I don't want to give too much away, 201 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: but there is a point like through the novel where 202 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: it is pretty clear that Kim is interested in her, 203 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: and even knowing that, Julia still continues on with her 204 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:56,679 Speaker 1: deception because she is an incredibly anxious, insular person. Like 205 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: that was one of the most fun parts of the novel, was, 206 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: you know, it's toll from first person perspective, and you 207 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:09,119 Speaker 1: spend so much time in Julia's head. She really overthinks everything. 208 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: That's one of the ways in which she is like me. 209 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: And even with the proof of all of these different things, 210 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: her her family's acceptance, this girl's interest staring her in 211 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: the face, she still is seeing demons around every corner, 212 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: and what is the name? So if so, she lies 213 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: and she says her family's not that accepting. It's more 214 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: so that it's more so that she doesn't correct Kim 215 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: when she makes a sort of assumption. And I think 216 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: that's why Julia feels kind of almost like self righteous 217 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: about it, is like, well, she already assumed, and so 218 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: I'm just not correcting her, And it was her fault 219 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: for assuming in the first place that I was some 220 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: like poor little tranny that she needed to save. And 221 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: the real life nature of Julia's relationship with her family 222 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: is kind of more like, you know, mom and Dad 223 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,119 Speaker 1: might might not have been totally understanding of it initially, 224 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: but ultimately really really understanding. She also has an older 225 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: brother and two twin siblings, two younger twin siblings. The brother, 226 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: I think I could say is like the most accepting, 227 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: but on the hint of this lie, Julie kind of 228 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: positions him as maybe the least accepting kind of Yeah, 229 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: she really throws him under the bus, the darkest lie. Yeah, 230 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: that is the darkest lie because with the rest of 231 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: her family, you know, like, what I really wanted to 232 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: explore is this nuance of queer acceptance where your family can, 233 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: you know, say all the right things and do the 234 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: right things, but there's still kind of a stinky vibe 235 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: of like, you know, it's still all a little conditional, 236 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: the way that you use a she her pronoun with 237 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: an emphatic kind of or it's like, I only see 238 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: you as a woman if you do these certain things 239 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: that I expect a woman is supposed to do. And 240 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: with Julia's brother, Aidan, he really is the one in 241 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: her family who has embraced her identity the most, and 242 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: maybe even more so than well no, with her mother 243 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: there her transition did bring them closer in a way, 244 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: and with her and Aiden, they've always been close and 245 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: Aiden's Aiden's he's her younger brother, so like a young 246 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: oh and with Aiden, like they were always close and 247 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: so her her transition really changed nothing about their relationship, 248 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: which is like such great proof to her that she 249 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: has the support she is looking for and why it 250 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: makes it all the harder to justify what she's done. 251 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: And that is the place I wanted her to be. 252 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 1: I really wanted the reader to be really frustrated with Julia, 253 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: because that's fun, yeah, and like, well, that frustration is 254 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: really I think that frustration is the thing that is 255 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 1: like perhaps in my experience of reading the book, the 256 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: most interesting part of it, which is that like you know, 257 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: her her mom and dad are like very accepting now, 258 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 1: but they've come a little ways to get there, and 259 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: so there's still this like there's this tension. There's just 260 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 1: feeling like the certain the way the way her mom 261 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 1: uses that she her pronent still feels a little a 262 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 1: type of way, or that this these very little ways 263 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 1: that SIS people, SIS family meverse can still disappoint us 264 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,959 Speaker 1: even when they're trying, creates this like negative kind of 265 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: foil to it that I think, and sometimes it's the 266 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: trying that feels hard, like like what like because like 267 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 1: sometimes like the lack of effort is the effort, you know, 268 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 1: when someone is not making it clear that there's something 269 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: different or weird or quote unquote special about you, versus 270 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: when someone is clearly putting an effort, when there's an 271 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: emphasis on the she or the girl, or when assist 272 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: girl is like hey lady, you know like that that 273 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: is almost more hurtful than an out as would rather 274 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: like them. Yeah, it's funny, but like I the I 275 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: think in throughout the whole book, you depict something that 276 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: I've never really seen in any media before, not to representation, 277 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: but like it's it's something that I've never really seen 278 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: depicted before, which is that it's this transgender urge to 279 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: play up your trauma or oppression or to balloon that 280 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 1: frustration inside of you to a degree that feels manipulative 281 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: or punitive to those around you, you know what I mean. 282 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 1: Like it's like it's this thing where you're kind of 283 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: like you're like, oh, I am the victim, I'm the victim, 284 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: or these are my perpetrators, and in reality it's like 285 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: really really not that dynamic is not actually real, Like 286 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,400 Speaker 1: it's it's much more nuanced than that, but it also 287 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,959 Speaker 1: comes from a real place because when your trands like 288 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,479 Speaker 1: you do, live in this constant fear of you know, 289 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: the turf around the corner, constant victimhood, and your marginalize, 290 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 1: you're minoritized in every interaction, and so you can't help 291 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:52,199 Speaker 1: but expect that from people to an unhealthy extent, and 292 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: it actually can lead to being very unfair to people 293 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: who are not giving you that energy at all. Yes, exactly. 294 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: And I think like Aid and the Brother is maybe 295 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: the primary example of this. There's almost even a level 296 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 1: of it that comes from Kim who kind of I 297 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: mean as a reader, I immediately had these like alarm 298 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: bells in my head about how the Crush would speak 299 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: about transness or just like acceptance in general. We have 300 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: this like movie, this like after school special idea like 301 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 1: trans acceptance, so that SIS people can have a trans 302 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:34,239 Speaker 1: acceptance that is like very grading. Okay, there's also a 303 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: kind of wait, what is even There's there's some sort 304 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: of slang term for like trade you have at your hometown. 305 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,880 Speaker 1: What is it? It's it's just like like a town hookup. 306 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 1: It's like an old flame. It's kind of like basically 307 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: Julia has this old flame named Ben Ben who is 308 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: her brother's friend brother and one of the grooms men, 309 00:20:55,800 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: who is someone who feels like comfortable and life just 310 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: one is one of those hookups that like just knows 311 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 1: your body, and so hooking up always feels like easy 312 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 1: and giggly and fun. Well, and also the special thing 313 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: for her is they were hooking up before she transitioned 314 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: right right, and so he's been this like constant in 315 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: her life and someone who was equally attracted to her 316 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: in both presentations. So that is really comfortable. Like I 317 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: think at one point I wrote that like hooking up 318 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 1: with him was like putting on a pair of like 319 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,439 Speaker 1: the perfectly worn and old jeans, you know, which is 320 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: such a which is such a goal. When you have 321 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: a person who is like you're just like very comfortable 322 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: around can get off with. It's like really easy, you 323 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: don't have to put in too much effort. They know 324 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: you really well, they know your body. Kind of kind 325 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: of goals. It's been so long since I've had an 326 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: old Jean's hook up, but it's like it's almost too comfortable. 327 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 1: Like Julius still is like she she understands that if 328 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: she was like kind of a simpler person. She could 329 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: like let that be enough for her and like let 330 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 1: herself love this person. But she's not simple. She's not 331 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: a simple girl. She's very complicated. Sweet Home Alabama. Yeah, 332 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,199 Speaker 1: it's sweet of Alabama. I mean everything is sweet Home 333 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:24,880 Speaker 1: Alabama to me. Sweet Homo Alabama, Sweet Homo Alabama, three 334 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: sweet trans Sweet sweet Home Trallabama, Tranabama. What we're like 335 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: the what we're like the most? Okay? Actually, no, no, The 336 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: question I want to ask actually is what changed? Because 337 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: you know, I was like with you in like cafes 338 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles when you were writing the first drafts, 339 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: in the first chapters of this book and somewhere along 340 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: the years long process. Because how many how many years 341 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: did it take you? It's been a little over three 342 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: years since I started writing the book, Okay, so but 343 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: you completed the manuscript like a year you know, yeah, 344 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: a year and a half ago. Okay, so it's like 345 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: two and a half years of writing essentially in that 346 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: two and a half year process. What changed? Like? What 347 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 1: was there? Is there? Like it doesn't have to be everything, 348 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: but like, what's something specific, whether like a plotline or 349 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: character or a dynamic or I know that the ending 350 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: changed that you don't need to share that, But is 351 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: there something else about when you were, like, you set 352 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:27,880 Speaker 1: out to write this book and it ended up being 353 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: that book. Yeah, I think it started off as more 354 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: of a kind of cut and dry romantic comedy and 355 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: it ended up being much more of a family drama 356 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 1: and coming of age novel because the romantic comedy was 357 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: really kind of like the like chocolatey rapper around a 358 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: sort of more like bitter center that was this like 359 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 1: exploration of family and identity and growing up and love 360 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 1: and kind of like lures you into a book that 361 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: I hope like has some pretty deep things to say. 362 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 1: It does about all of those things it actually really does. 363 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: I mean the family drama, well, the thoughtfulness of a 364 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 1: family drama is really in the book when she when 365 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: her inner monologues kind of pop off. She has like 366 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: a range of like inner monologues about transness, acceptance, family presentation, love, 367 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: et cetera throughout the book that are really really beautiful 368 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: in my favorite parts to read. When you were writing it, 369 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: you had quite a lot of references. Obviously, we've referenced 370 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 1: my best friend's wedding. I think we talked about Red, 371 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: White and Robe but at one point, even though they 372 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: have virtually nothing to do with each other. But the 373 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: big one was actually Garden State a way, I don't 374 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: wait talk to me about that. So, I mean, Garden 375 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: State is one of my favorite movies, and I revisit 376 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: it quite often. Actually, today's kind of a perfect day 377 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: to watch it, because it's like Rainy. That was in 378 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: mind a lot, because that is a movie that is 379 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,360 Speaker 1: about coming home for a family event. In that case 380 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: it's a funeral. In this case it's a wedding. But 381 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: the idea of forcing yourself back into a life that 382 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: you have outgrown and but also still being able to 383 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: find the beauty in that former life and some kind 384 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: of comfort in it while knowing that you have still 385 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: transcended it. And also you know that the family and 386 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: that is Jewish, and you know this Julia is Jewish. 387 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,959 Speaker 1: Her family is very culturally Jewish, and so that is 388 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: a big part of the novel as well. Truly likes 389 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 1: Cafelta fish wait right yeah, which is famously disgusting. It 390 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,719 Speaker 1: is famously discuss and she does. There is a vomit 391 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: scene early in the scene is really satisfying. I need 392 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: to see that as a movie. You also reference wait, 393 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: what is it for wedding? Four Weddings and a Funeral? 394 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: What it was that? Again, I've never seen it, I 395 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: don't think, or if I have, I don't. It's some no, 396 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 1: not what's the movie I'm thinking about about a funeral? 397 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 1: I'll remember later. Four Weddings and a Funeral is a 398 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: Richard Curtis movie. He made Nodding Hill and kind of 399 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: all those British romantic comedies with Hugh Grant. It stars 400 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: Hugh Grant and Annie McDowell and it is a movie 401 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:42,640 Speaker 1: where you experience this group of friends as they go 402 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: to over the course of a couple of years, four 403 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: different weddings and one funeral. And there very much is 404 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 1: a chosen family in it. There's a lot of you know, 405 00:26:54,000 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 1: like sexy romantic drama, some lying and manipulation. There is 406 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 1: some like very intense sadness with you know, the funeral 407 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: of it all. And it was a movie I had 408 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: never watched until I started writing the book and was 409 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: like actively seeking out romantic comedies about weddings to sort 410 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 1: of be inspired by. And that was definitely a big one. 411 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: Any other because okay, so I'm basically trying to paint 412 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: for the consume, for the consumer of this book, sorry 413 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: to be all sales. It's like, if you like for 414 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: weddings in a funeral, you like best No. This is 415 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 1: literally how we're marketing the books. I would also say 416 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: I would also say my big fact Greek wedding, yes, 417 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 1: because of the the kookie crazy family who are very 418 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: much like a huge like, this isn't a book where 419 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 1: the family are on the sidelines. There are a really 420 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 1: active part of the story, as are Julia's friends who 421 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: are her family. I also the number of times I 422 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: brought this up on like A version is embarrassing. But 423 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: then in real life starring Steve Carrell never seen and 424 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 1: Juliette Binoche stunning family drama where you're always trying to 425 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,439 Speaker 1: get me to watch a movie with Julia Boch and 426 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: we should watch it right now. Uh yeah, what any 427 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: any other films or books that could be comps to 428 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 1: this where it's like, if you like this, you like 429 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: Best Women. I think if you like well, I know, 430 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: you know the the authors that that my publisher really 431 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: like trying to compare it to or people Casey mcwisten 432 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 1: did blurb the book, Yell, Dolly Alderton, Emily Henry. Yeah, 433 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: I did get some really great blurbs from some authors 434 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: I so deeply admire and respect, like Casey Mccuisten, Kristin Arnett, 435 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: J P. Brammer. I was very touched by their their 436 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: thoughts about my book, and Tory Peters Casey. But Casey 437 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: said irresistibly fresh, bright, funny, and with singular voice, this 438 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: is the kind of romance I've been waiting for, and 439 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: we're so lucky to finally have it. Wow. Anointed by 440 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: Jesus themselves, incredible, anointed by queer romance. Jesus, queer romance Jesus. 441 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: Casey mcquest has anointed and blessed this but read this 442 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,479 Speaker 1: book and blurbed it. I want to know, Wait, were 443 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: there any Is there anybody that like you went out 444 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: to that didn't that didn't blurb them? No, I got 445 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: you got all your blurbs. Yeah, what I didn't know 446 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: that you've got a hundred Yeah, I mean Tory, Tory, 447 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: Casey and Kristen were like my holy trinity of blurbs, 448 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 1: and they all said yes, and we're so happy to 449 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 1: do it. That's that's been one of the really amazing 450 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: things about doing this is how generous other authors have 451 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: been with their time, with their advice. Uh, Like, I 452 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: had coffee with Haley Jacobson a couple of weeks ago. 453 00:29:55,040 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: Haley Jacobson wrote another queer novel called Old Enough that 454 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,719 Speaker 1: is really like a campus novel also is very much 455 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: a coming of age story, and she we had this 456 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: this coffee date because we met at the Meta Pride 457 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: book Fair this summer, the Meta Pride book that I 458 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: did my first ever reading of Best Women at. And 459 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: we had coffee and she like gave me some really 460 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: amazing reassurance about just like the process of publishing a 461 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: debut novel, and like the fact that it's not all 462 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: about pub day or pub week and that novels have 463 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 1: such a longer lifespan and really can like build up 464 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: a following over that, and also just like navigating what 465 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: it's like to have a book that is so like 466 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: identity first and that's the way that it's going to 467 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: be perceived and talked about, which was so helpful. Well, 468 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 1: that's the I mean, that's the kind of annoying thing 469 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 1: about marketing a book with transcaracter in it or queer 470 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: characters in it is that it immediately becomes trademark LGBTQ 471 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: bookshelf section of borders. But you know what I was 472 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: really happy and kind of gagged about was that my 473 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: team at no point was like, Okay, well, we have 474 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 1: to publish your book in June. It's a queer book. 475 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: Well no, no, no shade to queer authors who do 476 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: publish their books during Pride month, but it does. It 477 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 1: does feel very much like a siloing of queer art 478 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: that it's only important at the time when people are 479 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: kind of trained to pay attention to it. And the 480 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: fact that my publisher really believed that my book had 481 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: mainstream appeal and legs and like didn't want me to silo. 482 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 1: Didn't want to silo me. Like that meant a lot, 483 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: which it does. I mean, I read, I finished. It 484 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: took me months to read the book because I famously 485 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: can't read, but I did finish it with Rose Damu 486 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: at Fire Island at a Beautiful Fire Island share courtesy 487 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: of Joel Kim Booster. And I remember closing the book, 488 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: I had like, well you saw me like gasp multiple 489 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: times because the ending has some gags and some twists, 490 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: and it is a roller coaster. There was a there's 491 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: a there's a moment where I truly, truly audibly gasped. 492 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: But all that to say, I immediately wanted to I 493 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: immediately started fan casting it, and I was like, what 494 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: has do you have aspirations for this book to be 495 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: a film? I would love. I would love if it were. 496 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 1: I have, we have interests I have, I have film 497 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: and TV agents. Who are you know sending me around 498 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: to meet people to talk about that. I think it 499 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: would be so cool to see this movie, this book 500 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: that was inspired by romantic comedy films, to become a film. 501 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,959 Speaker 1: I also think the state of romantic comedy movies right 502 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: now is pretty die and this could be a good 503 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: injection into that. Yeah, my dream would be, of course 504 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: that because this is inspired by my best friend's wedding. 505 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: If Julia Roberts were to play the mother character, you're 506 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: gonna say, Julia so sickening Julia Roberts or maybe Sarah 507 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: Jessica Parker could play, could play Dana Jessica Parker wasn't 508 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: Oh no way, no, she wasn't. She wasn't, she wasn't. Sorry, 509 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: that is I'm thinking of the movie that's exactly like 510 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: Dan and this woman blindness Dan in real life movie, 511 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: but it's you're talking about the family Stone. The family Stone, 512 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: Julia Roberts would be fabulous. I was there's no there 513 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: are I was just talking to somebody the other day. 514 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: There are no transactresses period, Like, there are none. Yeah, 515 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: it would have to be a breakout. That's that's what 516 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: I would want, like because I just think we need 517 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: to be opening the door, like I know, as much 518 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: as possible. I know, like Hari and like Jesse, James 519 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 1: Kittle will be given the script, but like who, like, 520 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:14,839 Speaker 1: there are actually no transactresses and this would be the 521 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: most delicious role for what is a huge, huge, huge 522 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 1: population of transaction actresses that are ready to break out. 523 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,360 Speaker 1: And you know, I really it was important to me 524 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: that Julia not be the only trans character in her story. 525 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: You know, there are a few she and that is 526 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:35,879 Speaker 1: kind of what is so hard for her about going 527 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: Home is she goes from a life where she is 528 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 1: surrounded by queer people and never interacts with straight people 529 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:47,280 Speaker 1: really and then goes to Boca Ratone to a wedding 530 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 1: and this is her first time seeing her whole extended 531 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,840 Speaker 1: family since transitioning, and that is a huge moment in 532 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,880 Speaker 1: a queer person's life, you know, kind of re meeting 533 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 1: everyone in a way. A family wedding is pretty much 534 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,400 Speaker 1: the most cisgender thing that can happen. Well. Weddings, I 535 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,399 Speaker 1: think are I mean, there's a reason why so many 536 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:13,240 Speaker 1: stories are set at weddings. They are so high stakes, 537 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: there's so much drama, there's so much gender, like like 538 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 1: the concept of gender, like the bride and groom of 539 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: it all like they are. They're this sort of operatic 540 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: stage for family drama, romantic drama. The bridal party becomes 541 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 1: the chorus. And it also like weddings have a very 542 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: natural beginning middle and it has the kind of like 543 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 1: surprise and delight of the bachelor slash bachelorette parties, the 544 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: bachelors parties, and an opportunity to serve some looks with 545 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 1: which Julia gets to do thanks thanks to one of 546 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,360 Speaker 1: the one of the most fun things I had I 547 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: got to do in writing this novel is I got 548 00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,879 Speaker 1: to invent a fake pop star who is the source 549 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 1: of Julia's couture wedding looks, and that was that was 550 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,759 Speaker 1: super fun. I got to like think about you know, 551 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: like what what she would be wearing to like serve 552 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: invoke a retone. And I know that this is the 553 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,359 Speaker 1: most These are the most annoying questions to get as 554 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,760 Speaker 1: an author slash. They're kind of dereguer in the literary 555 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 1: world to ask about real life counterparts. But if you 556 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 1: were you modeling this pop star after anybody specifically or 557 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: a combination of anybody, she's kind of just an amaglamation 558 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 1: of a bunch of people. Like I just needed to 559 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,840 Speaker 1: come up with like a like a B list or 560 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,399 Speaker 1: maybe even C list pop star, plus like someone who 561 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 1: someone who would like be on the red carpet of 562 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 1: the VMA's, but not the Grammys, not the Grammys, the 563 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 1: VMAs which are tonight upon recording tonight, okay, on that, 564 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 1: on that, well, okay, any other and it will let 565 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 1: me pin this any other fan casting you would do, 566 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 1: any other celebrities that you would like to be in this. 567 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: I know this is like so so ghosh, but like 568 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: I do actually, I mean we know that Charlene, we 569 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: would ask Charlene to play Daytona. Were are you one 570 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 1: of the producers. I'm definitely a creative producer on this film. 571 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: If I don't have a credit. Well, Riot Daytona bitch, 572 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 1: who is Julia's closest Her name is Daytonah bitch. I 573 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 1: didn't know that that was I forgot that she is 574 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: like the probably the one of two characters in the 575 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,759 Speaker 1: book who are most closely modeled on someone I know 576 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,879 Speaker 1: in real life. And she is very heavily inspired by 577 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: my dear friend Charlene. So yeah, I would love I 578 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: would love to have for who's the other character? My 579 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 1: grandpa is like basically copy it pasted into this book 580 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,760 Speaker 1: just because like lawyer Grandpa. Yeah, because I really wanted 581 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 1: He's such a He's such a singular character that I 582 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:51,319 Speaker 1: really wanted to immortalize him in fiction. I know you're 583 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 1: just starting your press tour, but I do feel like 584 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 1: you will you will experience. I think you'll get a 585 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: lot lot of questions about the book versus real life 586 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 1: because you're also from Boca, because there are some thematic 587 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,480 Speaker 1: and character through lines in your life that are similar 588 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: to Julia's life. There's this sicky thing that can happen 589 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: on a pressed horror in your panels and your interviews, 590 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: et cetera, where people want to know about the real 591 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: quote unquote real life of it all, or like what 592 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,840 Speaker 1: is the closest space, what is what is close to 593 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,799 Speaker 1: your reality? How does it how how do you plan 594 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 1: on interfacing with those questions? Because it's it is just again, 595 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,840 Speaker 1: it's it's it's any anybody in the literary world knows that. 596 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 1: It's kind of like it's like not impolite, it's like 597 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: truly not about the work. It's it's not it's not 598 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 1: a way to look at the work. It's tricky to 599 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,520 Speaker 1: navigate because it almost it almost feels or at least 600 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 1: it you I think it's easy to feel like defect 601 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 1: of in a way to and view it as this 602 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,480 Speaker 1: sort of gotcha, like, oh, you didn't come up with 603 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 1: any of this. You just like you know, basically wrote 604 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 1: about your real life and change the names, which is 605 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:16,480 Speaker 1: like sorry, Like literally literally every single writer ever in 606 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,319 Speaker 1: existence writes things based on life like it's it's not 607 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 1: like not saying based on your life, not based on 608 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,720 Speaker 1: like real like your real life, but like we write 609 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 1: from lived experience or even like fucking Italo Calbino or 610 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,359 Speaker 1: whatever the fuck like writes things that have something to 611 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,839 Speaker 1: do with life, and it's really it's really only something 612 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 1: women get asked. Men do not get asked that question. Yes, period, 613 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,919 Speaker 1: and men have been copy pasting their their life into 614 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:47,720 Speaker 1: their work for millennia. Yeah, so yeah, it is tricky 615 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:52,239 Speaker 1: to navigate. I've been kind of not cagey about it, 616 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:56,600 Speaker 1: but I've been like sharing just little tidbits, and I think, like, what, 617 00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,839 Speaker 1: what I'm most comfortable saying is that some of these 618 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,760 Speaker 1: circumstances in the novel are pulled from my own experiences, 619 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:09,920 Speaker 1: and definitely some of Julia's family are inspired by my own. 620 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:14,720 Speaker 1: But the actual you had a wedding, I had a wedding, 621 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,719 Speaker 1: But the actual series of events and the way in 622 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:24,799 Speaker 1: which they happen our total fiction. And Julia is not 623 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: me and I, And actually that is one of the 624 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:29,759 Speaker 1: things that changed over the course of the novel. I 625 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 1: think I intended to write her a lot more like 626 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 1: me and she really it's such a trite thing that 627 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,960 Speaker 1: authors say. It's like characters tell you who they are, 628 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:42,120 Speaker 1: and they evolve by themselves. Like she really did become 629 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 1: this like totally separate person for me. And what I 630 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 1: said earlier is really the way, the truest way I 631 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,440 Speaker 1: can say it is like, because I have younger sisters. 632 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,279 Speaker 1: She really does feel like a little sister to me 633 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,600 Speaker 1: who I am like want to shake and be like, 634 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 1: please make better decisions the way. She's not like you. 635 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:06,320 Speaker 1: She's not as driven as I am. She's not an artist. 636 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,800 Speaker 1: She's not a creative person. I did not want to 637 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,799 Speaker 1: make her, you know, like a writer or whatever. She's okay, 638 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:19,080 Speaker 1: she is. I think she's me in some way. It 639 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 1: definitely like her anxieties are are are very similar to mine. 640 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,000 Speaker 1: She's a light gothisthet a light well maybe she's a 641 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 1: former punk. She's a little bit. Yeah, she's a little 642 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,239 Speaker 1: bit more punk than I am. And yeah, she's like 643 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,560 Speaker 1: a lot less driven and a lot less sure of herself. 644 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,040 Speaker 1: Like even though I suffer from a lot of anxiety, 645 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,799 Speaker 1: like I've pretty much always put yoursel that's pretty much 646 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:43,240 Speaker 1: always known from a very young age what I wanted 647 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,640 Speaker 1: and who I wanted to be. And Julia, it's taken 648 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 1: her much longer to figure that out, and a lot 649 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,160 Speaker 1: of it she still hasn't figured out. I'm sorry to 650 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 1: ask us, did you have a lesbian crush in high school? 651 00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,480 Speaker 1: I definitely did not. I did note, but but there 652 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,560 Speaker 1: is there is a scene the crush is so palpable. 653 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,839 Speaker 1: I feel like you. I definitely transposed a lot of 654 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,319 Speaker 1: gay yearning that I felt in high school onto Julia's 655 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,600 Speaker 1: bisexual yearning. The book kind of jumps back and forth 656 00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 1: through time occasionally to like give you more context on 657 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,400 Speaker 1: Julia's backstory. And there's this scene I think it's it 658 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,680 Speaker 1: might be the first jump back where it's a scene 659 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,760 Speaker 1: where her where Julia pretransition, is being driven home by 660 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,160 Speaker 1: her crush, Kim Cameron. And it is the most relatable 661 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:37,080 Speaker 1: portrayal of like a high school crush. It's just delicious. 662 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:41,279 Speaker 1: It's like so and also excruciating. It's excruciating, but it 663 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,520 Speaker 1: feels it. I just I love high school crush books. 664 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:50,279 Speaker 1: I love books like this because they get you so 665 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,319 Speaker 1: intimately in touch with what that felt like when you 666 00:42:53,360 --> 00:43:00,680 Speaker 1: were that age. Okay, uh okay, anything else about real 667 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,440 Speaker 1: life that you want to discuss, No, I want to 668 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,359 Speaker 1: keep it a little bit of a mystery. If this 669 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:10,239 Speaker 1: book had a soundtrack, it actually does. There's a playlist 670 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,960 Speaker 1: that is it published? It's out? It's out? Yeah? Is that? 671 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,839 Speaker 1: If we would mac on it? What's on it? What's 672 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,440 Speaker 1: on it? Is it on your Spotify? I want to 673 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:21,320 Speaker 1: I want to know, we'll pull it up. But anyways, 674 00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:23,440 Speaker 1: I bring it up. I bring this up because there's 675 00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:25,400 Speaker 1: just a lot of music in the book. There's a 676 00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 1: lot of like there's a lot of like references to 677 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 1: certain artists and songs that will like paint their way 678 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:39,160 Speaker 1: through scenes and like not even I not even place 679 00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,440 Speaker 1: you in time, to place you in the culture that 680 00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:46,120 Speaker 1: she belongs to, and like the ecosystem of like queer 681 00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:50,120 Speaker 1: nightlife that she comes from, or the kind of late 682 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,719 Speaker 1: nineties early aught sense, like radio sensibility. Yeah. So some 683 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:57,160 Speaker 1: of the songs in the playlist Black Velvet by Alana Miles, 684 00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:01,920 Speaker 1: Ray of Light by Madonna, Educated Guests by Anita Franco, 685 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:07,640 Speaker 1: Prologue from Into the Woods, Pearl Jam there is Fleetwood, 686 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:13,360 Speaker 1: mac Kate Bush, Torri amos Selene Dion, Jonny Mitchell, Phantom 687 00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,920 Speaker 1: of the Opera the Opera wa case of You. Okay, 688 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,239 Speaker 1: love that I forgot that Joni put her music back 689 00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,960 Speaker 1: on Spotify. Oh you have a Moon River cover. That's fair. 690 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:31,239 Speaker 1: I was going to ask about Audrey Hepburn. Okay, I yeah, 691 00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:35,440 Speaker 1: I think to who I know? This is not for 692 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:37,319 Speaker 1: you to decide, but to ask you. Anyways, who's this 693 00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,759 Speaker 1: book for. It's for trans people. It's for trans people. Yeah, 694 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,759 Speaker 1: also sis people. It is for SIS people, because I 695 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,839 Speaker 1: think SIS people do need to like see inside the 696 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:53,439 Speaker 1: mind of a trans person. But yeah, it's for it's 697 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:59,360 Speaker 1: for trans people. It's for trans people who who should 698 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:05,839 Speaker 1: be able to see their lives reflected in fiction, and 699 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:10,239 Speaker 1: not always in the most extreme of ways, like it 700 00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,680 Speaker 1: they should be able to have this sort of like fantasy, escapist, 701 00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:21,080 Speaker 1: romantic comedy experience the same way that that SIS people 702 00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,719 Speaker 1: get to. Yeah, and and well, I think i've I 703 00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,640 Speaker 1: can't remember if I've mentioned this on the pod before, 704 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:32,040 Speaker 1: if I I talked about your book for in a 705 00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:34,200 Speaker 1: Pride video series a couple of months ago, and I 706 00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:38,160 Speaker 1: was talking about how something that I think that the 707 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:43,800 Speaker 1: best kind of writing about queerness and transness is one 708 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:48,479 Speaker 1: where in the book has a trans character and has 709 00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:52,640 Speaker 1: no need to come to a screeching halt to like 710 00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,200 Speaker 1: explain that, you know what I mean, Like the trans 711 00:45:55,320 --> 00:46:01,840 Speaker 1: character exists, and where we have this like this, like 712 00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:07,560 Speaker 1: this plotting of emotional manipulated manipulation as whatever we want 713 00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,040 Speaker 1: to call it, tagged to her transness. The book in 714 00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:15,600 Speaker 1: and of itself doesn't interface with like only transphobia, like 715 00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:21,840 Speaker 1: it the book, like kind of the Shenanikins and the 716 00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,120 Speaker 1: rompang around has is like so much more than that. 717 00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:28,760 Speaker 1: It's actually just it's just entertaining, yes, but it's still 718 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:34,440 Speaker 1: it's still is all explicitly tied to her transness, because 719 00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,520 Speaker 1: I really set out to write a story in which 720 00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:41,600 Speaker 1: the plot couldn't exist if the character wasn't trans. Those 721 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,759 Speaker 1: are the kinds of stories I'm interested in, and I'm 722 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,640 Speaker 1: so inspired by other trans authors who have done that, 723 00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,800 Speaker 1: you know, people like Gretchen Valger Martin and Tory Peters 724 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:57,880 Speaker 1: who are writing you know, because I feel like so 725 00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:02,000 Speaker 1: so often the part line is like and it doesn't 726 00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:05,360 Speaker 1: even matter, It doesn't even matter that she's trans or like, 727 00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:10,439 Speaker 1: and she just happens about that. It's extremely about that, 728 00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:13,880 Speaker 1: because our lives and the ways we interact with the 729 00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:18,359 Speaker 1: world are different because of our transness, and that is 730 00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,960 Speaker 1: not something that we should minimize. And they haven't been 731 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,759 Speaker 1: written yet, Like, yes, your book belongs to like an 732 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,160 Speaker 1: amazing slate of like trans author authors publishing things right now, 733 00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,279 Speaker 1: but we are still in the infancy of trans fiction 734 00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:35,880 Speaker 1: as a genre. Yes, exactly, like it's it's it's like 735 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:40,360 Speaker 1: if you think about it at an on timeline of 736 00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:45,479 Speaker 1: like you know, a growing up like sis, fiction has 737 00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:51,600 Speaker 1: had jillions of years to write and make work, and 738 00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,520 Speaker 1: so we've kind of seen everything there is to see 739 00:47:55,120 --> 00:48:01,319 Speaker 1: from CIS stories, and so trans literature like obviously trans 740 00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:05,640 Speaker 1: literature hasn't existed also since the Dawn time, but are 741 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:12,640 Speaker 1: trans trans cultural production produced to a level of like 742 00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:17,759 Speaker 1: Summer ram com book is like in its infancy, and 743 00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:23,879 Speaker 1: also trans people telling our own stories and centering transnists 744 00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:31,839 Speaker 1: in them is still pretty you know, uh, pretty new 745 00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:38,240 Speaker 1: and radical in certain ways, and I hope people respond 746 00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,000 Speaker 1: to it. And I know you said this book is 747 00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,280 Speaker 1: for trans people, but I would also say this book 748 00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:46,040 Speaker 1: is for people who love books that are funny. It's 749 00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:48,440 Speaker 1: a really funny book. So if you're a lover of comedy, 750 00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:50,279 Speaker 1: you will love this book. I would say, if you 751 00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:55,120 Speaker 1: love a rom com, you love this book. If you 752 00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:57,360 Speaker 1: need a bet read, you love this book or a 753 00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:59,600 Speaker 1: vacation read. I think this book is really delicious because 754 00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,000 Speaker 1: it has like chapter like a lot of the chapters 755 00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,160 Speaker 1: are like three or four pages long, and I think 756 00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:07,759 Speaker 1: think that book Cadence a kind of Casey mc question, 757 00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:10,120 Speaker 1: I mean doesn't belong to them, but like a kind 758 00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:14,640 Speaker 1: of like there's a beach read cadence of short, digestible 759 00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:18,200 Speaker 1: chapters that's like really really nice. It does. I've had 760 00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:20,759 Speaker 1: a lot of people say to me in a very 761 00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,840 Speaker 1: positive way that they read it in one sitting, like 762 00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:28,320 Speaker 1: they really couldn't put it down. And it does move 763 00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:32,239 Speaker 1: very quickly. It's like it's a short novel. It's two 764 00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:35,880 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty eight pages, but there's a lot packed 765 00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:39,520 Speaker 1: in there. The pros is very dense, as I discovered 766 00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,360 Speaker 1: when I did my first reading of it. It was 767 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:45,880 Speaker 1: like dense. How Like it's just so like Joe Keavy 768 00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:51,320 Speaker 1: is so introspective, jokes per minute are really on. Julia's 769 00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:55,080 Speaker 1: internal monologue is always running at like a twelve out 770 00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,360 Speaker 1: of ten. Yeah, which I love, though I mean like 771 00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:59,960 Speaker 1: sometimes that can be overbearing in here. I actually think 772 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,160 Speaker 1: that there's just there's a lot that it's it's you're 773 00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,320 Speaker 1: you're you're playing it. You're I think you're overplaying a 774 00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,640 Speaker 1: little bit. There's a lot of scenes, it's it's a 775 00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:10,600 Speaker 1: lot of like it feels like a movie. It feels 776 00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:12,160 Speaker 1: like you're reading a movie. A lot of the time, 777 00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:14,239 Speaker 1: which is why I immediately wanted a fancast when I 778 00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:18,479 Speaker 1: was when I finished, I want to end on rom 779 00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,600 Speaker 1: coms like a thematic. We've we've I feel like we 780 00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:23,879 Speaker 1: haven't done a whole episode on rom coms. Have we Yeah, 781 00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,080 Speaker 1: we have, we have, we have. I'm pretty sure I 782 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:28,799 Speaker 1: can't remember, but I think we have. What is the 783 00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,960 Speaker 1: state of the rom com right now to you? In 784 00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:35,320 Speaker 1: TV films, books, movie movies, but you see you alluded earlier, 785 00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,080 Speaker 1: you're like the rom comms little rotten right now. I 786 00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,520 Speaker 1: mean they're getting materialists, they're getting made, but they are 787 00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:44,960 Speaker 1: largely relegated to streaming, and they are kind of served 788 00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:48,560 Speaker 1: up as almost like anciliary content and kind of scene 789 00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:52,000 Speaker 1: as like lesser than when they used to be, like 790 00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:56,400 Speaker 1: very much the tent poles of culture. It used to 791 00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:00,640 Speaker 1: be the blockbusters. Yes, And I do think it's because, 792 00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,640 Speaker 1: you know, just like the way that media has changed 793 00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:08,320 Speaker 1: and the kind the types of films that get made, 794 00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:13,759 Speaker 1: you know, like the marvelification of media, These movies that 795 00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:17,400 Speaker 1: are often very sexless, even when there are you know, 796 00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:23,120 Speaker 1: when there is romance in them. Romance is important. Also, 797 00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:27,280 Speaker 1: family stories are important, and stories about coming to terms 798 00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,680 Speaker 1: with their identity are important, and those things are are 799 00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:34,480 Speaker 1: valuable and meaningful. And I would love to see, you know, 800 00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:38,200 Speaker 1: a romantic comedy resurgence in which we're not just getting 801 00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:41,560 Speaker 1: you know, even though this is kind of like a 802 00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:44,600 Speaker 1: remix in some ways of a pre existing romantic comedy, 803 00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,640 Speaker 1: like it is a holy it is an original story, 804 00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:52,800 Speaker 1: and I would love to see more original romantic comedies 805 00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:56,439 Speaker 1: that are that are risky. Yeah, and there are what 806 00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:02,160 Speaker 1: what else? Like? Yeah? More like I also like prefer 807 00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:06,799 Speaker 1: romantic comedies that have primary and secondary characters that are 808 00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,200 Speaker 1: fucking weird, Like I think we don't get a lot 809 00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:11,279 Speaker 1: of that. I think a lot of rom coms in 810 00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:16,080 Speaker 1: the canon are about normies. Did that make sense? Well, 811 00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:18,319 Speaker 1: that's why. That's why my best Friend's wedding was so 812 00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:22,239 Speaker 1: transgressive was because Julia Roberts was a bad person. Bad 813 00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:25,600 Speaker 1: person I didn't I totally didn't even understand that when 814 00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:27,800 Speaker 1: I so when my first we talked about this in 815 00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:29,680 Speaker 1: the episode about my best Friend's wedding way back when. 816 00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:32,040 Speaker 1: But when I first watched my best friend's wedding, I 817 00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:34,080 Speaker 1: was kind of like, I mean, I kind of like 818 00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:35,719 Speaker 1: thought that a lot of the things she was doing. 819 00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:37,760 Speaker 1: I was like, that's fine, like she's she's being awful, 820 00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:39,880 Speaker 1: but like, actually I would I would do that too, sure, whatever, 821 00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:43,200 Speaker 1: But I also remember watching it and being like I 822 00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:48,160 Speaker 1: didn't understand I really didn't understand her motivations and I 823 00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:50,600 Speaker 1: didn't understand why the character was the way she was. 824 00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:54,440 Speaker 1: And I retroactively am like thinking about my reaction to 825 00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:58,560 Speaker 1: the first being of that film as something that was 826 00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:03,680 Speaker 1: claud How would it buy a canon of rom coms 827 00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:06,040 Speaker 1: that were very normy, a canon of rom comms that 828 00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:10,680 Speaker 1: were all kind of these perfect protagonists, these perfect Julia 829 00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,960 Speaker 1: Roberts esque protagonists, And here was Julie Roberts actually being 830 00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:18,239 Speaker 1: extremely imperfect. And I didn't get that kind of misogynist 831 00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,520 Speaker 1: of me, honestly. Okay, anything else you want to say 832 00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:22,839 Speaker 1: about the state of the rom com I think this 833 00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:25,640 Speaker 1: is like a juicy end note because I feel like 834 00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,279 Speaker 1: I want to see more original stories. Yes, I want 835 00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,719 Speaker 1: to see more transrom coms. Yes, I want to say 836 00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,920 Speaker 1: I would rom coms to be hornier, hornier, thank you, 837 00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:36,719 Speaker 1: Oh my god, this book is so horny, you guys. 838 00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,719 Speaker 1: The sex scenes are one and there are multiple. It's 839 00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:44,080 Speaker 1: crazy to me. My grandparents have read sex scenes that 840 00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:49,680 Speaker 1: I wrote. You also you well, sorry, I don't be 841 00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:51,719 Speaker 1: mad at me for saying this, but you had sex 842 00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:56,840 Speaker 1: scenes that had that were edited, that were yeah, tinkered with, 843 00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,440 Speaker 1: tinkered with a little bit. But I think but I 844 00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:03,920 Speaker 1: think there were Ultimately, ultimately it was in service because 845 00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:07,560 Speaker 1: this book is not it's not like a spicy kind 846 00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,160 Speaker 1: of mutt. It's not smut. It's not my sweet Audrina, 847 00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:16,480 Speaker 1: it's it's it' that'll be. It's the horny. It's horny 848 00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,720 Speaker 1: and sexy. But it's not smutty. No, it's not smuddy. 849 00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:23,919 Speaker 1: There's a there's there's a lot of yearning in it. 850 00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:29,279 Speaker 1: There's ellipse, there's ellipses, and there's there's But I also 851 00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:32,759 Speaker 1: think it's pretty frank about sex. Yes it is. It 852 00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:34,439 Speaker 1: doesn't shy away from it at all, which I love. 853 00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:39,560 Speaker 1: And it has sex humor that's like very good and funny. Okay, 854 00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:44,320 Speaker 1: I think this concludes our terry gross as interview. I 855 00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:46,600 Speaker 1: I want to again say, if you are in New 856 00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:48,600 Speaker 1: York City on Center or in the Tristate area or 857 00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:50,799 Speaker 1: in the Tristate area, honestly, you should drive up for 858 00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:52,920 Speaker 1: it because it will be worth it. There might even 859 00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:54,840 Speaker 1: be an after party if things come to fruition the 860 00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:58,680 Speaker 1: way we want to. But come see Rose in conversation 861 00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,520 Speaker 1: with heron Walker on September two third. We need you 862 00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:03,040 Speaker 1: to buy a ticket. If you don't buy a ticket, 863 00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:06,280 Speaker 1: you're not a virgin, period. I'm saying that right here now, 864 00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:07,960 Speaker 1: even if you're not in New York, you should just 865 00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:12,400 Speaker 1: buy a ticket, just to do it. Like love that mentality, no, literally, 866 00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:15,359 Speaker 1: like we need you to get into swifty mode, sorry 867 00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,000 Speaker 1: to say it's swifty mode, and just like get into 868 00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:20,520 Speaker 1: the subreddits. And we need people buying books and buying 869 00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:24,160 Speaker 1: tickets to Rose Damie's book event with heron Walker on 870 00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:26,280 Speaker 1: set for twenty third at the Strand in New York City, 871 00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:35,320 Speaker 1: as well as the Los Angeles event on October twelfth, twelfth, twelfth, Yeah, twelfth, 872 00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:40,640 Speaker 1: No eighth eighth, eighth, eighth, October eighth at Annabel's Book Club, 873 00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:46,040 Speaker 1: and the Baltimore event at Grady Reid's on October second, 874 00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:52,000 Speaker 1: and the Boca Ratone event on October eighteenth at Barnes 875 00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:55,200 Speaker 1: and Noble. And also I'm doing a second New York 876 00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:59,640 Speaker 1: event in Brooklyn at Lofty Pigeon with Bobby Finger right oh, 877 00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:02,719 Speaker 1: my God be okay, And all the links for all 878 00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:05,080 Speaker 1: of these events are again in the description of this 879 00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:07,600 Speaker 1: podcast episode. Just click on over to find them, or 880 00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:11,200 Speaker 1: you can go to Rose Damu's instagram Rose DomU and 881 00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:14,480 Speaker 1: check her link tree and her bio and they're all there. 882 00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:17,400 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for doing this with me. This was, 883 00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,239 Speaker 1: I mean, it's my pleasure. It was. It's I mean, 884 00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:23,880 Speaker 1: you I insisted, just f why I roasted, don't ask 885 00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:25,160 Speaker 1: me to do this. I was like, we need to 886 00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:30,480 Speaker 1: do this because, uh, we just we want to we 887 00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,560 Speaker 1: want to set the record straight on your terms. Yes, okay. 888 00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:39,359 Speaker 1: And the controversy wait, it has there been controversy? No, No, no, 889 00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:41,560 Speaker 1: there's been. I mean you've had like you had like 890 00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:44,640 Speaker 1: one negative book Goodreads review or something like that like 891 00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:48,920 Speaker 1: months ago. For for the most part, people seem to 892 00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:52,200 Speaker 1: really enjoy it. And if they don't, it's kind of 893 00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:55,840 Speaker 1: in the ways that I wanted them to not enjoy it. Yeah. Actually, 894 00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:59,680 Speaker 1: did you send a copy the JK rolling yet? Yeah? 895 00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:03,160 Speaker 1: I had. I had it sent. And it's sort of 896 00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:06,080 Speaker 1: a drone strike. There's kind of like like a T 897 00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:08,719 Speaker 1: shirt cannon but for books, and it's being shot into 898 00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:13,600 Speaker 1: her castle windows. Uh, that'd be a really great use 899 00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:16,920 Speaker 1: of marketing. Someone did. Someone did. When I posted about 900 00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:20,240 Speaker 1: this on TikTok recently, someone said, don't en jk Rowling 901 00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:24,480 Speaker 1: like this. I mean coming. I'm coming for her gig. 902 00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:31,040 Speaker 1: She coming for his gig, his Jake Hay Rowling. Anyways, 903 00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:33,160 Speaker 1: that is Best Woman by Rose Dom. You go get 904 00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:35,960 Speaker 1: your copy, go buy your tickets. I am fran Torado 905 00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:40,240 Speaker 1: and this is fresh air. This is stank air, stank 906 00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:42,160 Speaker 1: air with love you