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Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside Territory, Foul Territory Network's Cubs podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Sada Charma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We are your

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Speaker 1: Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic.

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Speaker 2: Patrick.

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Speaker 1: We have not recorded since Brad Keller departed for Philadelphia.

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Speaker 1: What a season for Keller and he cashed in on

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Speaker 1: that deal on that season like a I mean, just.

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Speaker 2: Dominant in every way.

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Speaker 1: I think a little blip before the All Star break,

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Speaker 1: but really didn't give up much. He had a stretch

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Speaker 1: after the All Star break where he just wasn't giving

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Speaker 1: up anything. I don't think he gave up anything until

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Speaker 1: like his last outing of the regular season something like that.

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Speaker 2: It was ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: Obviously looked good in the postseason, and now he parlays

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Speaker 1: that into a role which I think is perfect for

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Speaker 1: him where he doesn't have to be the closer and

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Speaker 1: he gets to set up for an established closer and

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Speaker 1: you know, like a guy that jumped significantly and be low.

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Speaker 1: Strikeouts were crazy, walks were low, and he was still

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Speaker 1: getting the ground balls that made him, you know, effective

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Speaker 1: as a starting pitcher. Just a really nice success story

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Speaker 1: for the Cubs in general.

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Speaker 3: Very nice person as well. For someone who's like enormous,

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Speaker 3: this enormously built monster is very friendly and very introspective

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Speaker 3: and insightful and good.

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Speaker 4: To talk to. He's got a nice perspective.

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Speaker 3: After bouncing around to a couple of different organizations, I

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Speaker 3: still can't like this guy was released by the worst

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Speaker 3: Major League team of all time, the twenty twenty four

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Speaker 3: White Sox, and for him to go to Boston figure

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Speaker 3: out some things with the Red Sox still get kind

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Speaker 3: of bounced around there, and then to do this kind

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Speaker 3: of offseason reboot, figure some things out, sign a minor

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Speaker 3: league deal with the Cubs, to be closing games of

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Speaker 3: Wrigley Field, to be on the mound for some electric

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Speaker 3: postseason moments. It's amazing, and I think his appreciation came through.

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Speaker 3: I think fans saw that just in talking to him.

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Speaker 3: You know him, Drew Pomeranz, Caleb Thielbar a lot of

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Speaker 3: that bullpen guys who were discarded, overlooked, forgotten about, and

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Speaker 3: they came together in a way that they're all at

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Speaker 3: the stage of their career where they really appreciated that

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Speaker 3: the day to day stuff and the chance to be

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Speaker 3: in a pennant race. They hung out a lot off

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Speaker 3: the field, you know, going for breakfast, coffee on the road,

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Speaker 3: stuff like that. And I do think Keller's role with

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Speaker 3: Philadelphia is what the Cubs would have envisioned if they

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Speaker 3: ever if he ever came back. I mean, he was

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Speaker 3: obviously priced out. They had talked throughout different points of

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Speaker 3: the off season about a return, and it was out

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Speaker 3: there that he had fielded interest in maybe converting back

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Speaker 3: to rotation. That's not how the Cups saw him, That's

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Speaker 3: not how the Phillies see him moving forward. And yeah,

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Speaker 3: he lands in a really good spot for him where

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Speaker 3: he doesn't have to pitch the ninth inning every night

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Speaker 3: in Philadelphia. He can rather be part of you know,

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Speaker 3: it's a kind of a mix of arms in.

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Speaker 4: Front of Iran on an annual World Series contender.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's a it's a good it's a good

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Speaker 1: fit for him, and I think it's like being able

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Speaker 1: to do this with pitchers over and over again is

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Speaker 1: good for the Cups. Just keep doing this. You've you've

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Speaker 1: kind of built this reputation up since what Tapara and

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Speaker 1: those guys Chris Martin, who is still pitching at age forty, Like,

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Speaker 1: there's there's a number of these guys dating back to

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Speaker 1: like nineteen and twenty, it seems like the Cubs have

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Speaker 1: been able to do it.

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Speaker 2: Over and over again.

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Speaker 1: Keller is probably the best of the success stories in

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Speaker 1: the sense that this guy was like there was no

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Speaker 1: history there and now he's as far as being this

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Speaker 1: type of pitcher and now he's parlayedd In two. Really

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Speaker 1: one of the better free agent, you know, bullpen reliever

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Speaker 1: deals of the off season. Great story for him, great

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Speaker 1: story for the Cubs, Like it works for both of them,

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Speaker 1: Like this isn't oh no, he's left the Cubs. What

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Speaker 1: have the Cubs done? You know, the Cubs had interest

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Speaker 1: and it would have been nice to have a reunion.

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Speaker 1: I think both sides would have liked that. But that's

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Speaker 1: like he went and got paid, and I think that's

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Speaker 1: what ultimately in the end, that's a good scenario for

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Speaker 1: the Cubs as well for both sides. It's like, look

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Speaker 1: what we can do. We have a setup here that's

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Speaker 1: conducive to kind of getting the most out of guys,

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Speaker 1: and we can we can help you, you know, maximize

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Speaker 1: your talent. And if you're not gonna get paid here,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna get paid elsewhere.

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Speaker 2: I think that's a good, good end.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no doubt.

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Speaker 3: I mean, he he earned it. He really found out

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Speaker 3: ways to get better. He took to coaching, He applied

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Speaker 3: a lot of the lessons he learned. I mean, there's

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Speaker 3: no sort of you know, metric for this, but I

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Speaker 3: do think he can be a quality reliever year over year.

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Speaker 3: Like I don't think this was a flash in the pan,

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Speaker 3: partially because there's no real metric for this, but I

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Speaker 3: just like the dude looks like he's like could be

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Speaker 3: a defensive end in the SEC.

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Speaker 4: Like he's just like and you kind.

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Speaker 3: Of get like, oh, like the Vlo jump, like once

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Speaker 3: you kind of get a couple of things in line.

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Speaker 3: Like just a big, strong, powerful guy who also had

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Speaker 3: carried a lot of innings as a starting pitcher. I

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Speaker 3: think I think the Royals were so bad and I

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Speaker 3: think probably Royals White Sox kind of in the dark

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Speaker 3: ages there for a while, like during that period when

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Speaker 3: he was in those organizations. So maybe he didn't get

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Speaker 3: the best teaching, but he had logged a lot of

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Speaker 3: starts and had been pretty good, you know, over stretches

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Speaker 3: on bad teams, And I think when you have that

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Speaker 3: know how and that foundation underneath you. I think it's

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Speaker 3: more reasonable to expect him to be a more a

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Speaker 3: better bet than some of these other kind of like

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Speaker 3: one year wonders you might be skeptical about. Still, I mean,

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Speaker 3: he I'm sure he would have liked a three year deal.

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Speaker 3: I think that was sort of a thought out there.

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Speaker 3: Maybe he could get three. I don't know if he

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Speaker 3: was offered thee but clearly he took two, which makes

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Speaker 3: me think he probably didn't get three or that that's

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Speaker 3: kind of how the industry valued him. But yeah, it

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Speaker 3: comes just gotta go find the next one, right And

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Speaker 3: I think you saw this as well with the decision

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Speaker 3: to trade Andrew Kittridge back to the Orioles. I believe

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Speaker 3: that was like a nine million dollar option slash a

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Speaker 3: million dollar buyout. Either way, the Cubs did not want

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Speaker 3: to make that decision that early in the season. Committing

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Speaker 3: that chunk to a late thirties reliever who's not really

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Speaker 3: wouldn't have been like their set closer. They like some

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Speaker 3: of those deals later in the winter, which I get.

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Speaker 3: That's not a criticism of letting the market kind of

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Speaker 3: filter out.

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Speaker 4: And then.

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Speaker 3: You know, you kind of the other thought was, okay,

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Speaker 3: nine million dollars. Again, it's not like a cheap thing.

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Speaker 3: Just like if you have nine million dollars, would you

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Speaker 3: like to take maybe six to nine bets on relievers

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Speaker 3: and see if two to three of them work or

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Speaker 3: do you just want to put it all into Andrew

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Speaker 3: Kitch's age thirty whatever season.

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Speaker 4: It's it's an interesting debate that they've settled.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, internally right right, They're They're not the team to

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Speaker 1: set the market on relievers. I think, you know, Mayton

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Speaker 1: is a good deal. Starting to look like a you know,

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Speaker 1: a decent discount almost on a on an established reliever

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Speaker 1: who has a who's had a lot of success. It

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Speaker 1: seems like almost like two twenty to twenty two is

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Speaker 1: the going rate right now, and the Cubs got them

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Speaker 1: for less than that. Uh, that's a that's some nice savings.

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Speaker 1: That's a that's a good move on their part. The reason,

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Speaker 1: you know, a big part of this, a big part

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Speaker 1: of their success right now, I think in their eyes

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Speaker 1: is Tyler's Zmbro, a guy that you know just joined

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Speaker 1: the organization about a year now, a little over a

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Speaker 1: year ago, Zombro was hired. Zambro is a guy that

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if Cubs fans are how

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Speaker 1: familiar they are with Zambro, but I would suggest getting

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Speaker 1: familiar with him. He's holding a pretty prominent role in

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Speaker 1: the organization. He's been promoted to VP of Pitching, which

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Speaker 1: was the role that Craig Breslo eventually was promoted to

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Speaker 1: after about I think two or three years in the

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Speaker 1: org and then you know, obviously Breslo went on to

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Speaker 1: be AGM MVP of Pitching and then now he's running

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Speaker 1: things in Boston, doing pretty well with what he working

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Speaker 1: with there, what he's working with there, and seems to

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Speaker 1: be producing a lot of pitching out in Boston, at

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Speaker 1: least prospect wise.

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Speaker 2: We'll see how it all pans out at the big

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Speaker 2: league level. That's the most important thing, obviously, but.

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Speaker 1: Zambro has an incredible reputation around the league. Patrick Lake

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Speaker 1: when he was hired, a lot of times I get

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Speaker 1: this guy's overrated. This guy's a dad, a door who

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Speaker 1: cares both the scouts and the R and D people.

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Speaker 1: Everybody that I talked to, they're like, look, he's legit,

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Speaker 1: like he and he's got a and he's not like,

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Speaker 1: doesn't He's a incredibly smart guy that doesn't come across

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Speaker 1: as like condescending or I'm the smartest guy in this room.

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Speaker 1: Let me show off how smart I am. He was

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Speaker 1: like a pre med at George Mason. I want to

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Speaker 1: say former player if you if you have heard of

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Speaker 1: him and you're not sure why. He's a guy that

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Speaker 1: he took like one hundred and four mile per hour

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Speaker 1: liner off his skull and like he was in.

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Speaker 2: Bad shape.

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Speaker 1: And and you know, obviously recovered. He's all good now

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Speaker 1: and tried to make a couple comebacks. I think injuries

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Speaker 1: caught up to him, and eventually I think he was

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Speaker 1: helping out the Rays in like a non full time role,

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Speaker 1: and he works at this place called Tread. If you

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Speaker 1: have kids right now that play baseball, they probably watch

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Speaker 1: YouTube videos of Tread. I know my son does. And

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Speaker 1: that's without me even mentioning any of this stuff to him.

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Speaker 1: It's just kind of pops up on there. If they

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Speaker 1: like baseball, they may they may have seen some of

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Speaker 1: this guy's videos. And now he's like one of the

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Speaker 1: most influential voices in this cub's front office. Like he's

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Speaker 1: he has a huge impact on their pitching decisions. And

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Speaker 1: it's not just MLB acquisitions, It's it's all over the place.

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Speaker 1: And I think you know that that his role is

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Speaker 1: really you know grown over the last year and and

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Speaker 1: this offseason, the the Washington Nationals came after him, offered

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Speaker 1: him the role of pitching coach, and I think there

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Speaker 1: was an opportunity to do a little bit more within

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Speaker 1: the organization, and and the Cubs said, you know, we're

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Speaker 1: going to make sure you stay here and then upped

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Speaker 1: his role and then changed gave him like a lot

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Speaker 1: of influence at this organization. And I don't think they

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Speaker 1: were you know, disappointed to do that. I think they

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Speaker 1: were happy to do that because they believe that this

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Speaker 1: guy has a lot of potential impact.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would highly recommend reading two pieces. That's how

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Speaker 3: I wrote. The first one was to sort of like

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Speaker 3: get to know Tyler Zambro that was published shortly after

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Speaker 3: he joined the Cubs organization, kind of sketching out some

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Speaker 3: of his backstory, his motivations, his interests, how he got

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Speaker 3: to this point. And then more recently the Newsy piece

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Speaker 3: of him being elevated to vice president of pitching and

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Speaker 3: taking on a role, as Sodive said, being involved in

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Speaker 3: a little more in amateur scouting and a.

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Speaker 4: Little more in.

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Speaker 3: Player development. And you know, pitching has been a huge

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Speaker 3: focus this offseason. So that's you know what Craig Council says,

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Speaker 3: you never stopped looking for more pitching. That's twenty four

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Speaker 3: seven three sixty five type of endeavor. And so he

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Speaker 3: is involved in that. He is a riser in this organization.

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Speaker 3: And I think you'll probably see some of this reflected

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Speaker 3: on how they pivot for the in filling out the

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Speaker 3: rest of their bullpen because a lot of names have

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Speaker 3: gone off the board. Not too many of those closer

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Speaker 3: like surefire closer types still out there after run on

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Speaker 3: relievers that interestingly, a lot of other nationally contenders kind

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Speaker 3: of loaded up their bullpens while the Cubs have been

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Speaker 3: rather picky.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, obviously, I don't think we expected them

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Speaker 1: to be in on Devin Williams or Edwin Diaz. They

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Speaker 1: get their big deals. Luke Weaver, I believe got the

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Speaker 1: same deal as Brad Keller, Am I remembering that correctly?

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Speaker 1: A few other names like that. Brad Keller and Luke

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Speaker 1: we were two names we thought they were interested.

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Speaker 2: In, and of course they go elsewhere.

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Speaker 1: There's just not a lot of high leverage relievers left,

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Speaker 1: and I think we kind of expected one more. There's

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Speaker 1: Pete Fairbanks, There's Sir Anthony Domingez. I'm probably missing a

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Speaker 1: name that's that's out there, but there are a few

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Speaker 1: names left. It doesn't seem like the Cubs are willing

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Speaker 1: to go to the price range that it's taking to

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Speaker 1: get these guys. It has worked out in the past

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Speaker 1: for them. I will say that they have figured out

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Speaker 1: ways to make it work.

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Speaker 2: I think.

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Speaker 1: We will see what falls through the cracks. I guess

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Speaker 1: that's often how this works. Where what three weeks from

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Speaker 1: Cubs convention at that point last year, I think the

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Speaker 1: Cubs were still in on Tanner Sky, Yeah, Roki Sasaki

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Speaker 1: still hadn't signed. You know, things like that, We're still

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Speaker 1: happening at that point. Who's going to be available around

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Speaker 1: that time, Who's going to be available early February? When

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Speaker 1: teams are like, Okay, you got to make a decision

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Speaker 1: do you want to be a spring training or not?

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Speaker 1: And they take a one year deal instead of asking

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Speaker 1: for two, or they take a little less money over

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Speaker 1: two years, whatever it may be.

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Speaker 2: That may be where we're headed.

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Speaker 1: If the Cubs are going to get another big arm,

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Speaker 1: or they're just going to do the Hey, we we

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Speaker 1: got a couple.

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Speaker 2: Of guys we trust. You know.

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Speaker 1: Obviously, theield Bar is back, and I think that's a

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Speaker 1: big deal. They have two lefties Hoby Milner, Hoby Milner

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Speaker 1: and and field Bar, and then they have their right's

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Speaker 1: and Mayton and Palencia and then kind of go from there,

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Speaker 1: kind of figure it out. Hope a guy like Colin

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Speaker 1: Snyder bounces back, and probably the six other names that

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Speaker 1: we've probably not even paid attention to that they've signed

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Speaker 1: to minor league deals that they'll continue to add over

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Speaker 1: the weeks. Someone will pop up, a young guy will

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Speaker 1: bounce back. Is that the direction that they're going, Well,

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Speaker 1: I guess we're going to find out.

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Speaker 4: Look, I think another year of seeing these results in

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Speaker 4: out of the bullpen helps.

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Speaker 3: You have Craig Council making those decisions, who's widely regarded

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Speaker 3: as being a good in game tactician and someone who

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Speaker 3: doesn't burn out his relievers. You have a coaching staff

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Speaker 3: that's year over year been pretty good at assembling this bullpen.

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Speaker 3: I think they would prefer to not have to rebuild

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Speaker 3: it on the fly to the extent that they've done.

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Speaker 3: I mean, council said it at the winter meetings, like

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Speaker 3: we were wrong about our bullpen.

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Speaker 4: If you look back at it.

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Speaker 3: At the start of the season, the guys who they

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Speaker 3: thought would play prominent roles sort of receded or disappeared.

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Speaker 3: But they want up pitching pretty well, and I just

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Speaker 3: think you can. That has to be squared though, with Okay,

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Speaker 3: who's the picture and is there another big time hitter

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Speaker 3: at it?

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Speaker 4: Like if you.

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Speaker 3: Sign a starting pitcher such as Zat Gallen and somehow

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Speaker 3: bringing Alex Bregman and you kind of go low budget

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Speaker 3: the rest of your bullpen.

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Speaker 4: I think people are fine.

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Speaker 3: With that if you if Bregman goes somewhere else and

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Speaker 3: the bullpen the rest of the bench is sort of

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Speaker 3: low cost additions, and you're waiting around to sign another

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Speaker 3: starting picture. You miss if you miss under my Gallon,

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Speaker 3: we haven't even got into the Rangers, soars Franbur Valdez

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Speaker 3: kind of territory of guys who's marks have not been

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Speaker 3: sort of clearly defined yet. Like I'm like, that's okay

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Speaker 3: if you wait to fill out the bullpen, but you know,

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Speaker 3: I want to see once we get past Cubs Convention

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Speaker 3: getting close towards the Super Bowl. Like, if there are

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Speaker 3: some of those bigger names out there that can help

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Speaker 3: other airs of your team, I think the Cub's better

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Speaker 3: better be in on them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm looking at roster resource right now on Fangrafts,

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Speaker 1: Patrick and the Cubs luxury tax payroll is estimated at.

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Speaker 2: Just under two hundred and four million.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Look, they have money to spend still, if we're

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Speaker 1: to believe that they're going to be right around the

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Speaker 1: first luxury tax threshold, which I believe I'm going off

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Speaker 1: the top of my head now to forty four.

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Speaker 4: Is that right? Yes?

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Speaker 2: Forty four.

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Speaker 1: So they have money to spend if they don't like

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Speaker 1: it has to go somewhere. Where's is going to go? Like,

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Speaker 1: they can't be sitting it too. I guess we said

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Speaker 1: this last year too after they traded Bellinger, that money

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Speaker 1: is going to be spent, and then it, you know,

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Speaker 1: really wasn't.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, so.

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Speaker 1: Hopefully this is not the same situation. There are far

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Speaker 1: too many holes for it to be the same situation.

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Speaker 1: They have to add and they have to spend to add.

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Speaker 1: So whether it's like you said, whether you go big

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Speaker 1: on Bregman and make a trade for a starter and

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Speaker 1: go small on the bullpen, and I hope it all comes.

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Speaker 2: Together or whatever it may be.

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Speaker 1: There has to be one move left, in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: one maybe two, if it's a trade that gets the

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Speaker 1: fan base a little more, you know, settled and feeling

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Speaker 1: confident about the direction of things, because it is.

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Speaker 2: It's tough right now.

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Speaker 1: When you get that taste of a playoff baseball again,

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Speaker 1: you see what a good team looks like, and there

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Speaker 1: are obvious holes and the team clearly isn't as good

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Speaker 1: as anyone wants it to be, including this front office.

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Speaker 2: Uh you know they.

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Speaker 1: I think it's good to remind every ourselves and everyone

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Speaker 1: that there's still a lot of the off season left

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Speaker 1: and that we shouldn't be hitting the panic button, but

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Speaker 1: also be well aware that, hey, moves need to be made,

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Speaker 1: things need to be done, and there's plenty of resources

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Speaker 1: to do that.

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Speaker 2: So let's see what they do. But yeah, it does.

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Speaker 1: It does get unsettling when you get this close to

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Speaker 1: the holidays and the big moves haven't been made.

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Speaker 4: And this is not even just like a fan thing.

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Speaker 3: It's like honoring the the players who've draw the crowds

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Speaker 3: that fill up Wrigley Field, the players who pour their

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Speaker 3: you know, so much energy into getting to this point,

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Speaker 3: and you know, the products that was put out in

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty five was compelling and entertaining, and is a

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Speaker 3: front office that is you know, colored within the lines,

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Speaker 3: so to.

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Speaker 4: Speak, of kind of the parameters of what they've been given.

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Speaker 3: They've done a pretty good job here of getting to

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Speaker 3: a place of ninety plus wins and winning a playoff round,

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Speaker 3: and you would think you would want to build off

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Speaker 3: of that and give some more latitude and more resources to.

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Speaker 4: Make that happen, and it very well could.

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Speaker 3: Like this front office, as you know, as our listeners know,

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Speaker 3: is very conservative by nature, very disciplined, so they're not

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Speaker 3: going to force deals.

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Speaker 4: They're not going to.

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Speaker 3: Make signings and trades just for the sake of doing something.

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Speaker 3: But they're well aware of that sort of ticking clock

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Speaker 3: and you know, as options dwindle, and.

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Speaker 4: You know, the scarcity of these opportunities.

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Speaker 3: When you have a a playoff caliber team on paper

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Speaker 3: right now, but you're we're also a second place team

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Speaker 3: that got bounced by your small market rival. So like,

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Speaker 3: stuff has to get done here over the next couple

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Speaker 3: of months, even if it's not going to happen at

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Speaker 3: the pace we would all like to do it. Like

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Speaker 3: we could just write our you know, off season recap

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Speaker 3: stories and just like you know, Ce and mesa like.

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Speaker 4: Doesn't really really.

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Speaker 1: Work that way, right, We're let's hope that there's there's

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Speaker 1: something done by the time we talk to listeners again,

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Speaker 1: or you know, maybe not directly with the Cubs, but

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Speaker 1: there's some clarity of Okay, these guys are off the board,

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Speaker 1: here are their targets. Something should we should be a

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Speaker 1: little closer over the holidays, but even before the holidays,

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Speaker 1: we'll see where we're at. But next time we talk

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Speaker 1: to you, it'll be inching closer to the holidays. But

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Speaker 1: we hope to get to We will get two episodes

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Speaker 1: out during the holiday weeks and then talk to you

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Speaker 1: guys and update you guys on what's going on Cubs.

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Speaker 2: Why.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening. This is north Side Territory.

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Speaker 1: Make sure to rate, review, subscribe, subscribe to the YouTube channel,

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Speaker 1: and subscribe to The Athletic where Patrick and are on

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Speaker 1: top of all things Cubs. Thanks for listening to everyone.

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Speaker 1: Take care