WEBVTT - The Jealousy, The Voicemails and The Literal Broken Heart 0:00:01.240 --> 0:00:03.520 Falling in love is the best feeling in the world. 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:07.560 You see stars, you feel giddy, But sometimes that makes 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:12.960 you do crazy things, and sometimes that means murder. Just 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:15.840 because the story starts out with once upon a Times 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:21.280 doesn't mean it ends happily ever after. Welcome to Crazy 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:24.560 and Love, a production of Katie Studios and I Heart Radio. 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:29.600 Today's guests are true crime producer Jeff Shane and Chris Graves. 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:36.839 Episode thirty seven, The Case of the Jealousy, the Voicemails, 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:44.800 and the literal broken Heart. Her whole life, Sarah Ludiman 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:48.440 had played it safe. She worked hard in school, participating 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:51.920 in multiple sports, and was involved in the church. Those 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:55.040 were the eighteen year old priorities. But as your senior 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:58.520 year in Penelli's Park, Florida began, Sarah couldn't help feeling 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:01.000 that she was entering adulthood and that she was on 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:04.360 the outside looking in. Sarah yearned to go to parties, 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:07.320 break some rules, and above all, made a boy who 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:11.679 made her heart swim. Sarah was an only child and 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:15.319 her parents had been married for over thirty years. Her 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:17.560 father was a cab driver and her mother was a 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:20.520 surgical nurse, and the pair had moved from New York 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:22.880 to Florida when Sarah was born to keep her safe 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:26.680 and warm. The pair doated on Sarah and showered her 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:30.920 with endless love, but despite that, their daughters seemed to 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:34.920 have low self esteem. Although she had brains, beauty, and 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:37.720 a killer sense of humor, she dealt with some weight 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:43.319 loss issues. These, in turn plagued her with insecurities. Sarah 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:45.479 saw true love at home with her mother and father, 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:48.280 and in the books she read and the show she watched, 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:52.320 but she wondered if it would ever be hers. All 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:54.560 of that changed in the fall of two thousand and eight, 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:57.320 when Sarah was struck with cupids arrow. After meeting nineteen 0:01:57.400 --> 0:02:02.000 year old Josh camecho Josh was everything Sarah wanted, and 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:05.160 to her surprise, he seemed to feel the same way. 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:07.960 For the very first time in her life, Sarah no 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:11.600 longer felt like an outsider. Perhaps her feelings could be 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:14.800 encapsulated best in a MySpace photo she posted of herself 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:19.240 with Josh. The caption underneath it read, quote true love 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:21.480 when you look at him and you can see her 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:29.760 entire future in his eyes. Here's Jeff. So here's what 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:32.400 we know about Josh Camacho. He was a well known 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.239 cool guy in the area. He was known for having 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:37.880 a string of girlfriends and a tough guy attitude. But 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:41.440 despite being so different than Sarah, the pair really seemed 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:44.240 to click. There were rumors around town that Josh just 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:46.960 us girls for rides in cash, but Sarah wouldn't hear 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:48.800 any of it. But can you really blame Sarah for 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:51.639 feeling the way she did. Romantic love is an addiction, 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:53.919 and your first love is your first dose, the best, 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:56.680 most elusive high you feel, the one you always chase. 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:58.800 The results of the Harvard study we were looking at 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:01.840 strongly suggested that because love provides a kind of chemical 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:04.560 feedback in our brains, were creating this chemical response may 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.959 eventually become our human drive or motivation to stay in love. 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:10.520 And the way we put this into context of this 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:13.880 story is that Sarah might not have even loved Josh specifically, 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:16.840 but just the idea of being in love. Chris, what 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:18.839 do we know about how the people in her life 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:21.680 reacted to this new relationship. It's often that the people 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:24.480 closest to us sometimes hear little alarm bills when some 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:26.760 of this stuff is going off. We're young, we don't 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:28.960 necessarily have the best taste sometimes, but I mean they 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:31.399 were they were in love. But her parents didn't necessarily 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:34.359 take to Josh. They were worried about her. They could 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:37.240 see this relationship wasn't good for her, but they also 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:39.440 loved her and wanted to be supportive. I think it's 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:41.520 kind of hard for parents, right, They see this and 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:43.520 they think it's wrong, but they don't want to drive 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:46.200 their daughter away by completely not supporting her. Right, It's 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:48.840 a fine line. Yeah. I think they wanted to be 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:52.280 there and make sure that they could catch her if 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:55.960 she fell, or be pleasantly surprised if they were wrong. Right, 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:59.000 So instead of acting angry and potentially driving a wedge, 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:02.480 they kept Josh close by. And you know, Sarah's dad 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:05.000 went to the extent of taking him to baseball games 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:08.000 and had him over for family dinners, trying to get 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:10.120 him to be a part of the family a bit, probably, 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:12.480 and to keep a watchful eye on him. And it 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:14.440 was also a little bit of keep your friends close 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:17.480 and your enemies closer, that kind of thing. So they 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:20.240 hope the relationship would fizzle out, but it kept ongoing 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:22.880 and that plan didn't seem to work. Sarah was more 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:25.800 in love with Josh and this bad boy image more. 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:29.840 Each day, Sarah's parents noticed a change in Sarah. Her 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:33.600 grades started to slip, her behavior was different. She even 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:36.840 transferred schools to be closer to Josh, which that's a 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:39.599 pretty big move, pretty bold. So the parents at that 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:42.400 point wanted to intervene, but what could they do. She 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:44.640 was eighteen, so she's now kind of out of their 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:48.000 sphere of being able to do anything legally. Right. Yeah, 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:50.120 that must have been self frustrating for her parents. They 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:52.040 felt like they knew bath But you know, what can 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:54.360 you tell a teenage girl about her love life? Not 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:57.520 a whole lot, Well, especially once she's turned eighteen. And 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:00.839 oftentimes at that age, when we're told something by our parents, 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:04.080 oftentimes we think we know right and we don't really 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:06.880 listen to our parents. Yeah. I think also, girls always 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:08.920 want to date a bad boy because they think they're 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.159 going to be the girl that will change him and 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:15.080 he'll change for them. And I imagine Sarah probably had 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:18.120 seen her fair share of romantic comedies and where it 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:20.760 kind of always works out. I imagine she felt that 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:22.400 it would work out for her in the same way 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:25.760 it did in all those You know idyllic movies. Well, yeah, 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:29.040 she you see the bad boy or the broken boy, 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:30.920 you want to be the one that kind of fixes 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.520 him or brings them to the good side. From looking 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:35.479 at this, you know, and her parents were probably seeing 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:38.400 him dragging her to the darker side, considering her grades 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:41.480 were dropping, she's changing schools for him, and her behavior 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:47.880 was getting more erratic. It sounds like Sarah was proud 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.440 of her relationship and did what any teenager who is 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:56.480 in love does, post about it incessantly. As is unfortunately 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:59.960 true with all social media, you never quite know who 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.840 is going to see those posts. That autumn, Sarah got 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:08.120 a comment from someone named Rachel Wade. Sarah didn't know Rachel, 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:11.599 but the girl's words struck a chord. Under a picture 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:15.840 of Sarah and Josh kissing, Rachel had written, I'm his girlfriend, 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:21.679 Who the hell are you? Sarah was devastated. She confronted Josh, 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:25.320 but he denied everything. He and Rachel had dated, he said, 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:29.000 but they had broken up months ago. Sarah believed him, 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:34.719 but couldn't help wondering who was Rachel Wade. So, Chris, 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:38.760 what do we know about this building love triangle between 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:43.800 Josh Sarah and Rachel. Well, Johnshu told Sarah that he 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.760 and Rachel had been broken up for months. The truth 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:50.160 was that he and Rachel were still dating and had 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:53.120 actually been dating since the summer before he had even 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:58.440 met Sarah. So really, Rachel's kind of right because Sarah's 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:01.520 the new girl right in that love triangle, not that 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:04.599 Sarah knew at all. This is Josh playing the field. 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:08.760 Josh is two timing Rachel and he's two timing Sarah. 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:13.360 The girls looked at each other as the enemy, and 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:17.360 Josh has the conquest the the bad boy at the 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.880 center of this that they both wanted, and Rachel and 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:24.720 Sarah would fight over Josh. So Rachel started coming for 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:28.040 Sarah online on the photos that Sarah would post, Like 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:30.200 there was a photo that Sarah posted where she was 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:33.040 at the beach. Rachel commented, why would you wear that 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:35.840 to the beach? Don't you know you're fat? I mean 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:38.240 that must have hit Sarah like a ton of bricks. 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:41.840 As we mentioned earlier, she she'd already had weight issues, 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:44.400 like self esteem issues with her weight, so for another 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:47.200 young lady to say that to her about a beach 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:51.920 photo that probably sent her spinning. I would assume um. Rachel, 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:54.680 because she's a young lady herself, would have known that 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:57.160 that it would hurt quite a bit, probably one of 0:07:57.200 --> 0:07:59.440 the most hurtful things she could do to Sarah, and 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.680 on such a public form, to like my Space where 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:06.880 everyone can see the comment, probably stung even harder. But 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:11.119 it's not like Sarah just sat back and I hope 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:13.720 this would go away. She actually fought back in a way. 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:17.320 She continued to antagonize Rachel by posting photos of her 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:19.880 and Josh when they were together, knowing that Rachel would 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.600 see them, and in turn, Rachel would then do the same, 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:24.920 posting photos of her and Josh when they were together, 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:27.480 knowing that Sarah would see. Most of this happened online, 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:30.400 but the fighting started to happen in real life. One time, 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.199 Sarah and her friends went to the Applebee's where Rachel worked, 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:35.280 and asked to be sat in her section. Once they 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:37.440 were at their table, they complained, sent the food back, 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:42.600 made a mess, generally just making Rachel's life miserable. We're 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:44.840 going to take a break. We'll be back in just 0:08:44.920 --> 0:09:00.600 a moment. You know, it strikes me with some of 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:02.760 this because right now there's a boy at the center 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:05.120 of this Josh and the two girls. Instead of going 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:07.720 after Josh, who's the one who's in the wrong, he's 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.640 the one who's two timing both of them. They're going 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:14.240 after each other. And we've read that at least in 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:16.600 one case. I think it's Rachel was in the Disney 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:19.880 Princess movies. You know, this is something that we're kind 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:23.240 of conditioned, as you women, when we're watching those movies, 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:26.080 that that the ultimate goal is the prance or the guy. 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:28.800 So I think this is playing out in a really 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:31.720 bad and negative way with the story. Yeah, I mean 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:34.200 from the outside looking, and it's so easy to say 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:36.760 Josh is the jerk. These two girls are both being 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:39.680 played they should really come together and break up with 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:42.440 this guy. But I think when you're in it, and 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:45.520 you know, putting yourself in Sarah's position, She's in love 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:48.840 with Josh, and so she wants to maintain that relationship. 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:50.680 This is her first relationship. She's putting a lot of 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:54.280 weight into it, and so Rachel is this outsider trying 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:55.760 to break in, and so what she's trying to do 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.360 is stop that at all costs. I don't agree with it, 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:00.480 but I get it. No, I don't agree either. I'm 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:03.559 just saying there's also social pressures that I think are 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:06.720 coloring how these girls are responding. For sure. Well, I 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:09.080 wonder to what Josh is thinking in all this. I mean, 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:12.360 probably knowing what it's like to be a you know, 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:15.000 high school boy. It's it's pretty fun. I would have 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:17.320 thinked to have girls fighting over you, and I imagine 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:20.280 probably friends at school. We're making it worse too, and 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:23.200 adding fuel to the fire. Well, also, if he's a 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:25.880 bad boy, it's probably adding to a street cred to 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:30.440 have two girls fighting over him. Not to be outdone, 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:34.960 Rachel got Sarah's phone number and started calling her. Take 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:40.560 a listen to some of these disturbing voicemails. Next message, 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:44.880 please tell me, Sarah, why you would be a dumbinos 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:47.600 just to put a brand new picture you and Josh 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:51.320 at the beach. Seriously, I told you to watch back 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:53.840 and not to chill with him. Now you ask his mind, 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:57.480 and I'm guaranteeing you I'm no murder you. I'm letting 0:10:57.480 --> 0:10:59.600 you know that now because you know what Josh might 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:01.280 have played me. But bitch on gonna play your ass 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:04.160 out to watch your fat bitch it on the can 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:06.839 kill you. I wear on my lights, watch out your 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:08.880 window when I get off for tonight. You jump, bitch. 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:14.800 End of message, next message. It's so funny how you 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:16.960 talk and you want to sit there and say that 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:20.120 my man without your ass house. Then tell me what 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:23.120 he was wearing tonight. Sarah, you're a dumb bitch for real. 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:25.520 If you're in line, I'm gonna find you and I'm 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:27.920 gonna beat your ass. If you're not lying, I'm gonna 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:31.960 find you and beat your ass. Okay, you keep playing games. 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:34.800 You're apathetic, little bitch, and you're a little girl. Honestly, 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:37.040 what do you have this going for you that Josh 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:39.360 wants to you? What we're me for? I got a job, 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:44.800 have my own place. Seriously, he could get anything he 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:47.600 wants for me, anything, not to mention that I would 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:51.080 probably ten times better than you. And you run your mouth. 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:53.360 You still got your mommy and daddy's curfew, bitch, For 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:56.080 God's sake, what do you Why do you run your 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.200 your mouth? And why are you that pathetic? Please do 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:00.480 leave it on your mind space, because that's o You's 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:04.000 just like you and him are, so keep talking, Sarah, 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:06.199 you stop. You haven't relearned your life and yet, but 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:09.920 I'm gonna teach you it. I'm telling you now with me, Sarah, 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.439 psychonical action and I'm telling you now, I'm going to 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:17.679 show you psycho with me for a long person the 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:21.880 one thing that I care about, because I'm gonna teach 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:25.040 you how to go up roma quick. Holy Yeah, I 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:27.920 was getting uncomfortable listening to those messages. I can't even 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:31.640 fathom what it was like for Sarah to receive messages 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:35.080 like that, especially at her age. You know, she's being 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:39.440 cursed at, she's being threatened, and it seems like this 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:42.520 kind of started a dumb cat and mouse game, you know. 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:46.120 And then Josh is sitting there enjoying it. Really disturbing 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:50.600 voicemails are going out to Sarah from Rachel and and 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.800 then Josh seems to be playing dumb about all of 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:58.520 this and seems to be enjoying his sooner stage position 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:02.000 in this game and not helping either side, but kind 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.400 of egging them on instead of shutting it down. He 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.439 it sounded like he encouraged the girls to keep posting 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:11.240 photos and crazy captions. Yeah, and where my brain goes 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:14.839 is these kids are clearly not thinking straight, because when 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:17.160 you're doing something wrong, the first thing you know is 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.199 you should never put it in writing or put it online. 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:22.160 And that's all these girls are doing, I mean leaving 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:25.880 these voicemails. Now there's this proof forever of the horrible 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:27.959 things that Rachel was saying to Sarah. In the same 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:31.720 way putting these comments on the internet, it lives forever online. 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:34.800 Now everyone can always read these awful words that they 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:37.240 were saying about each other. Yeah, in the case of 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:39.920 both Rachel and Sarah, this is two thousand nine, So 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:42.600 this is the beginning of the Internet. I think Facebook 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:45.160 came public in two thousand seven. We're somewhere around there. 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:48.199 I think YouTube started in two thousand seven, and we're 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.079 talking about my Space, which is a precursor to Facebook. 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.800 So I think there's a lot that we've learned now 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:57.360 about that. All of them are teenagers, so they've got 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:00.520 an adolescent brain, and experts who will tell you that 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:05.000 the adolescent brain is not developed enough to really be logical, 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:07.520 right and to calm yourself down. So you get in 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:10.160 the middle of this fight and you're gonna post, and 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:12.679 you're gonna get angry, and you're gonna get reactive and 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:14.839 I think that's what we're seeing here, and it's just 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:18.120 egging each other on. So it strikes me that we're 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:21.200 talking about this now when we know so much more 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:25.320 about how those negative effects, we're watching a tragedy planting 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.360 out right now online. That's a great point, and it 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:32.000 was clearly working. Every time Rachel would leave Sarah voicemail, 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:35.080 Sarah would respond, so it was clear she was Rachel 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:36.640 was getting a rise out of Sarah, which was the 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:39.160 ultimate goal. I mean, obviously the whole fight was cyclical 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:40.640 because they were both doing it to each other, but 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:43.200 they were getting what they wanted, which was the other 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:45.840 one to feel bad about themselves. Yeah, and they were 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:50.040 also probably getting a rise out of the boyfriend they 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:52.960 were trying to nab two. Oh for sure. Yeah, he's 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:55.040 playing right into it. I mean he he liked it 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:58.920 by all accounts. On April fourteen, two and nine, Sarah 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:01.320 spent most of her day a sessing over the idea 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:05.960 of Josh and Rachel together. Her desolation only intensified when 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:10.160 she checked Rachel's my Space. There she saw her rival 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:16.080 had updated her status to say quote loving maboo. It 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:19.520 didn't name Josh specifically, but Sarah knew who Rachel was 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:24.600 talking about. Sarah said Josh multiple texts asking him about Rachel, 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:29.600 all of which she ignored. Finally, she texted him quote, 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:32.200 you say you love me, but you don't have the 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:36.760 decency to text me back. After a long stint of silence, 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:42.040 Josh bluntly responded, quote, bring the movies, although he hadn't 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:44.920 responded at all to Sarah's cries about the love triangle. 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:49.280 She headed over to Josh's house for a video. After 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.440 the movie, Sarah and Josh's sister headed out to get 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:57.160 some food. When Rachel called Sarah, there were more angry threats. 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:02.240 Although she couldn't hear every thing, Josh's sister specifically remembered 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:06.160 hearing Rachel scream quote, I'm going to stab you and 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:10.240 your Mexican boyfriend. After hanging up, Sarah got a text 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:13.520 that would change the rest of her life. A friend 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:18.320 had spotted Rachel and gave Sarah the address. In the car, 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.520 Sarah was just a few blocks from her rival. She 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:26.040 sped over with her curfew nearing, Sarah texted her parents 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.000 saying she'd be a little late. When she arrived at 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:31.920 Rachel's location, Sarah got out of the car. After a 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:35.080 few minutes, other kids had heard about the drama and 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.960 rushed to the suburban neighborhood. The two teenage girls started 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:42.560 fighting in the streets. Not more than ten seconds had 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:46.120 passed before Rachel pulled out a knife and stabbed Sarah twice. 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:52.600 Amidst the chaos, someone called nine one. Rachel ran. Sarah 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:55.320 was taken to the hospital and very sadly died at 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:59.720 two twenty am the next morning. Her cause of death 0:16:59.880 --> 0:17:03.960 was the puncture to the heart. When police found Rachel, 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:06.200 she'd made it a few blocks away, where she sat 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:10.240 calmly on a bench smoking a cigarette. She agreed to 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:14.240 come in for questioning. At first, Rachel told police she 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:19.040 knew nothing about stabbing Sarah, but she quickly changed her story. 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:23.440 Take a listen to a portion of the interrogation. When 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:25.280 Sarah was hitting me, I went to hit her and 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:28.359 I probably did not eat staff her. I'm not I'm 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:32.480 not killed. Somebody tell me how it happened. She was 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:34.440 hitting me, and when I went to hit her back, 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:36.399 I had put one of my hands up and I 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:38.400 had like I tried to hit her back and keep 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:40.399 my hands in front of me. This is the knife 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:45.199 show me how you're okay. But now if I'm Sarah 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:47.440 and I'm in front of you, what were you doing 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:49.600 with the knight? I would out to the side. Did 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:51.280 she started swinging on me? And then when I went 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:53.040 to put my hands out, but she was swinging on 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:54.879 me and I tried to defend myself from her, and 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:57.919 then Janet came at me from the side, and I guess, like, 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:03.040 I did not mean to stab her how many times? 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:05.600 And when I hear that, it sounds exactly like a 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:08.720 teenager when they get caught doing something wrong that's innocuous. 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:11.240 Their first response is to just deny it. They didn't 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:12.639 do it, and then they kind of come around and 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:14.800 there's like a dance around what they might have been involved, 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:17.680 but not to the extent. But we're not talking about 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.480 something innocuous here. We're talking about murder, so the stakes 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:40.359 are definitely higher. Let's stop here for another break, Chris. 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:42.800 Do we know what happened to the murder weapon? Yeah, So, 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:46.560 after Rachel got in this altercation with Sarah ended up 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:50.359 stabbing her, she fled the scene, and I guess on 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:53.480 her way away from there, she threw the knife up 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:55.800 onto the neighbor's roof, and that's where the police found it. 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:59.399 So she had enough wherewithal to actually what it technically is, 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.240 disposing of the murder weapon. Yeah, so that would point 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:05.399 to somebody knowing exactly what they've done to me. Well. 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:08.600 As the integtition continued, the police broke the news to 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:11.760 Rachel that her rival Sarah had died. Let's take a 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:15.399 listen to that moment that you need to understand, Rachel. Okay, 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:17.920 when I was down at the hospital, Okay, I saw 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:20.280 where she was stabbed at Okay, it looks like he 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:23.199 has two stab wounds, all right. The next piece of 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:25.600 information that you need to know is that she is dead. 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:35.679 Aside and the results of these stab wounds that she 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:44.720 had at Northside Hospital, I didn't know. He didn't. He 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:48.600 didn't them to finally leave me alone all this over, Josh, 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:52.160 I just didn't want them to the air right me anymore. 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:54.879 He following me every weddy come to my job, they 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:57.320 come in my house. They not gonna follow you anymore, 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:06.760 because she did. Now, she seems to me genuinely surprised. 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:11.959 She seems very emotional. I buy that she didn't necessarily 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:13.879 know that she was dead. Or know that she was 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:16.520 gonna know that she was going to die, But I 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:20.720 could be wrong. She breaks down crying and gets fairly emotional, 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:22.359 and I don't I don't know that that's an act. 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:25.879 It is, of course one thing to wish someone dead 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:29.800 and to then find out you actually killed them. It's 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:33.960 possible that it wasn't necessarily first degree murder intent with 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:36.400 her like knowing she was going to stab her to death. 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:38.399 It might have just been I'm gonna stabb her to 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:41.439 get her away from my boyfriend, and now she's finding 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:44.680 out that this person actually died from what she did. 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:47.240 We talked a lot about a crime being premeditated or not. 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:52.240 And while she might have not meant to kill Sarah, 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:54.639 Rachel brought a knife to this fight. I mean, she 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:56.600 had to know what that knife would do it, so 0:20:56.680 --> 0:20:59.639 she certainly meant to cause her harm, which is enough 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:03.240 to constitute a crime. I also wondered too, I mean, 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:05.879 the crying sounds genuine, but I wonder if it's less 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:09.919 of a surprise, it's less of an emotional reaction to 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:13.680 Sarah's death and more of a oh wow, this is real, 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:16.320 I really did this. I'm in big, big trouble. Now, 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:20.080 that's quite possible that the breakdown is more realizing the 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:22.720 gravity of the situation. She just put herself in. Sarah 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:26.879 kind of started to go find Rachel. Rachel had a knife. 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:32.080 I don't know that Rachel brought the knife. Following witness 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:35.919 testimony and her own admission, Rachel was arrested and charged 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:41.200 with second degree murder. The trial became a media circus, 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:46.000 with all of Penella's Park packing the courtroom. The defense 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:50.000 argued that Rachel had killed Sarah in self defense, and 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:53.000 the prosecution encountered saying that people who kill in self 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:56.000 defense don't dispose of the murder weapon and lie to police. 0:21:57.040 --> 0:21:59.320 And what did Josh, the boy at the center of 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:05.440 this tragic drama, have to say? So? Josh sent on 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:08.520 multiple occasions to the police that he had no idea 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:12.040 how bad things were between the girls. Besides, everything point 0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:15.320 pointed to the contrary in his head, and he spoke 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:17.960 about this and on the stand. Why don't we listen 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:20.320 in on a little bit of what Josh told the 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:24.439