1 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World, I am really pleased 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: to talk with Shannon Bream, anchor of Fox News Sunday 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: and Fox News Channels, chiefly Will correspondent and a good friend. 4 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: She's got a brand new book out entitled The Love 5 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 1: Stories of the Bible Speak, Biblical Lessons on Romance, Friendship, 6 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:25,119 Speaker 1: and Faith. And this is the third book in a 7 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: series she's created which began with the number one New 8 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: York Times bestsellers, The Women of the Bible Speak and 9 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 1: The Mothers and Daughters of the Bible Speak. And I 10 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: think she's doing a lot to really open up the 11 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: Bible in a practical, human way for millions of people. 12 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: In her latest book, she draws lessons from the good, 13 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: the bad, and the ugly of biblical romances, friendships, and families. 14 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: She shows how God's love is often very different from ours, 15 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: turning upside down our assumptions about life relationships in each other. 16 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: Here to talk about her new book, I'm really pleased 17 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 1: to welcome back my guest, Shannon Bream. Shannon, welcome, and 18 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 1: thank you for joining me again on News World. Thank 19 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: you so much for having me. It is an honor 20 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: to be with you. You know, we last spoke last 21 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,639 Speaker 1: March about the Mothers and the Daughters of the Bible speak, 22 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: And you're now getting in this pattern of releasing one 23 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: book every year and they are all bestsellers, And I 24 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: have to say I'm a little bit jealous record yourself. Well, 25 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 1: I've had occasional But the Women of the Bible speak 26 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: the Wisdom of sixteen Women and their Lessons for Today, 27 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: March of twenty twenty one. The Mothers and Daughters of 28 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: the Bible speak Lessons on Faith from nine Biblical families 29 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: March twenty twenty two. And I'm curious, how do you 30 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: manage the process of writing alonging with preparing to be 31 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: on Fox News every Sunday and continue to be Fox 32 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: News Channel's chief legal correspondent. Well, mister Speaker, you do 33 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: this too. You manage all kinds of things, And you know, 34 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: when you're writing, you're sort of in the zone. So 35 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: when I'm really hardcore trying to hit it deadline for 36 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: the book, there's not a lot of doing anything else. 37 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: I mean, it's either work or book, and that means 38 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,239 Speaker 1: not socializing, not hanging out, not going on one trips 39 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: or anything else. They're just sort of in the zone. 40 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: So I find that I really compartmentalize things so that 41 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: each thing gets done and it's timing, and then you're 42 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: off to the racist on the next thing. So I 43 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: like to be busy and I like to work. I'm 44 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: actually working on trying to find better balance for that. 45 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 1: But I love the work I get to do. It 46 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: feels like a blessing. You said something I think very 47 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 1: important for somebody. I want to become a little writer. 48 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: How do you get into the zone? I know the feeling. 49 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: I've published something like forty five books over the years, 50 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: and there is something that happens when you're really able 51 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: to focus and it's just kind of flowing correctly. I mean, 52 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 1: how do you experience that? What's your sense of that? 53 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:53,839 Speaker 1: You know? I know I have to have a few 54 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: hours that are just quiet and set aside, knowing I'm 55 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: not going to be distracted by anything else I have 56 00:02:57,919 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: to do. I know this is going to sound weird, 57 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: but I play Christmas music for whatever reason. The Christmas 58 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: music works for me when I'm writing, and it's just instrumental. 59 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: I don't want any words, so I just listened to 60 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 1: instrumental Christmas music for a few hours. Turn everything else off. 61 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: And I just have my stacks of research books and 62 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: I watch a lot of sermons. I'll watch rabbis, Catholic priests, 63 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: Protestant pastors, just to get different viewpoints on these Bible 64 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: stories that I've known my whole life, but just to 65 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: learn a lot more from different angles. And so between 66 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: the Christmas music and the research and the silence of 67 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: everything else, hopefully in a few hours, I can get 68 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: a lot done. So it doesn't matter what time of 69 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: the year it is. It's Christmas music. Oh yeah, yeah, 70 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. And the funny thing is, I did 71 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: write part of this book we were finishing up around 72 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: Thanksgiving time, which I'd already started to unpack some of 73 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: the Christmas stuff, So the Christmas music fit there. That's great. 74 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: I love those image of you surrounded by Christmas no 75 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: matter what time of the year it is, and it 76 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: kind of fits. You always seem like you're just one 77 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: day away from opening presents. You have this primarily positive 78 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: attitude towards life that I think really serves you very 79 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: very well. Well, thank you, and we come from the 80 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: same place. I mean, faith to me is the redemption 81 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: of the rest of the world and the things that 82 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: we have to confront on a daily basis. It's very overwhelming. 83 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: But I feel like when you've got a perspective, like 84 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: we know how the story ends and good does triumph 85 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: over evil, that there is hope in the world, that 86 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: hopefully we share it with other people. The Bible is 87 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: an extraordinary book of not just enormous importance, but it's 88 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: enormously complex and has an amazing range of stories. And 89 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: you have found sort of a way of finding a threat, 90 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: if I might say, and you follow that thread through 91 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,679 Speaker 1: the Bible, and the most recent one, the love stories 92 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,840 Speaker 1: of the Bible speak what led you to that? Some 93 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: of these we had touched on in the earlier books. 94 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: And I'm like, Okay, let's let the guys in on 95 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: the action here, because there are critical parts of these stories. 96 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: For example, with Mary and Joseph, I thought she rightfully 97 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: gets so much of the attention as being the mother 98 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: of the Messiah and taking on this divine assign but 99 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: also Joseph had to make some really difficult decisions and 100 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: very much was a perfect model of sacrificial love of 101 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: protecting Mary and Jesus and in the family they've built 102 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 1: with these other children, a provider Joseph, I kind of 103 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: joke was like the world's best step dad ever, because 104 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: he was called into this assignment and never backed away 105 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 1: from it. So I thought, let's look at some of 106 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 1: the men in these stories too, and see how relationships 107 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: went well in the case of Mary and Joseph and 108 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 1: somewhere they didn't like Samson and Delilah. So you go 109 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: through the Bible, which you obviously know extraordinarily well, and 110 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:39,359 Speaker 1: you pick selected examples that really relate, I think, to 111 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: every human being. I mean, all of us have some 112 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: need to have friends, to have lovers, to have people 113 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: we share our lives with, and all of us experienced 114 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: this thing of this human emotion. And you manage to 115 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: make the Bible come alive as an everyday document that 116 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: relates to us. As you went through, how did you 117 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 1: pick out the specific stories you decided to use. Well, 118 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,119 Speaker 1: you're right, Listen, these stories are already there. They're beautiful stories. 119 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 1: And maybe somebody who's intimidated by the Bible or wouldn't 120 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 1: pick it up. I want to put it in a 121 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: format that maybe they read these stories and then for 122 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: themselves they say, oh wow, I didn't even realize that 123 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:19,280 Speaker 1: person or that story was in the Bible, and then 124 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 1: maybe they want to go study more for themselves and 125 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: they're drawn to it. So I hope it's an open 126 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 1: door for them. But these love stories, I think there's 127 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: some we think of right away, like maybe Mary Joseph, 128 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: Adam and Eve. Song of Solomon a very tricky one. 129 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 1: But I felt like, if we're going to do love 130 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: stories of the Bible, we have to dig into that 131 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 1: very racy sort of love collection of poems. But Ruth 132 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: and boa Has, I felt like there are stories that 133 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: relate to everything, whether it's widowhood or being in a 134 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 1: tough marriage or the ideal marriage and what God had 135 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: ideally set up with Adam and Eve. So I feel 136 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: like there's a lot to learn there. And like I 137 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: always do in these books, I include the bad ones, 138 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,359 Speaker 1: like we say, Samson and Delilah, because I think that 139 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: there are lessons in where people get off track because 140 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: we all do that and God can work through our 141 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: mistakes our messages, and I find that to be a 142 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: really comforting message. Well in a sense, I noticed that 143 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: the way you've did this, you have twelve different relationships, 144 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: but they sort of break on the one end into 145 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: romantic relationships and another hand into friendships, which are also 146 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: an expression of love. Absolutely, and you know, we saw 147 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: real relationships and friendships with Jesus. Think about all the disciples. 148 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: The people that you know best in your life are 149 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: the people that you travel with and you do life with. 150 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: And these guys were in really trying circumstances, very dangerous 151 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: circumstances sometimes, so you really see how their friendships grow. 152 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: I spend one chapter on Jesus and John, the apostle 153 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: that he loved, and talk about how we see their 154 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: relationship mature, and it's a real friendship. In the Old Testament, 155 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: one of my favorites is Shadrach, Meshach and a Bendigo, 156 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: these friends who refuse to back down when they were 157 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: forced to either choose to worship a false god which 158 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: would have offended where they were in their allegiance to 159 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: the God of Israel, or be thrown into a fiery furnace. 160 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: So we talk about having friends that walk through the 161 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: fire together with us. Those men actually did that literally 162 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: in the Bible, and I just think it's such a 163 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: network and glue to our lives, these friendship relationships, and 164 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: so I think they're just as important as looking at 165 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: the romantic relationships do. I think one of the most 166 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: interesting stories you picked was Job and his Friends, because 167 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: normally we think of Job and an isolated being punished 168 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: by God really living through a terrible set of experiences. Frankly, 169 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: until You're a book, I had never thought about Job 170 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: and his friends. Could you talk to just a little 171 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: bit about that? In some ways, just one of the 172 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: most interesting stories you tell. Yeah, I thought about this 173 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: because you know, in the beginning, we find that Job 174 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 1: is this really righteous man, and that Satan basically goes 175 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: to God and says, oh, I could make him turn 176 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: on you, And God allows the suffering into Job's life 177 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 1: because he's confident that Job is of pure of heart 178 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: and is not going to turn away from God. So 179 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: everything is unleashed on him. He loses all of his 180 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: children at once, He loses the thing that the world 181 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: would say make you successful, his life, stock and its riches, 182 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: all of that goes away, and then his very own 183 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: health is attacked, and so he's under every pressure and 184 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: nightmare that we all would imagine you could go through. 185 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: So his friends, the three of them decide to get 186 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: together and say we're going to go to him and 187 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: comfort him. As they're approaching him, they see how physically 188 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: and emotionally completely devastated he is. They fall down, weeping 189 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: and mourning and realizing the pain they're walking into. And 190 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,679 Speaker 1: we're told when they get there, they sit there for 191 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: seven days in silence. I mean, sometimes that's the friend 192 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: that we need and the friend that we need to 193 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: be is that we worry sometimes when people are in 194 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: deep grief or struggles in their lives, that we're going 195 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: to say the wrong things, so we don't show up, 196 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: we don't pick up the phone. These guys just went 197 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:44,719 Speaker 1: and sat there, and that gift of their presence was 198 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: a beautiful thing. Everyone so overwhelmed by grief they couldn't 199 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: even speak, but they were there. So it's when they 200 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,199 Speaker 1: start to have their conversations with Job and try to 201 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: figure out if he's done something wrong, and they really 202 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: pick into his life of U sind, is there something 203 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: you've done wrong? God knows the whole story. At the 204 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 1: end comes around and as to these friends, like listen, 205 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: you've spoken some truth into him what you've been wrong 206 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: about his righteousness? And God is with him in that suffering. 207 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 1: But you see that friends sometimes the most important thing 208 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: we can do is just show up, even if we're 209 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 1: not going to get things exactly righteous. Showing up in 210 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: the worst moments is important when you're going through this 211 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: and you're looking at these things. Was there anything when 212 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:37,839 Speaker 1: you suddenly stopped and said, boy, I've never thought of that, 213 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: something which surprised you. One of the stories that's kind 214 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: of obscure that's in the book is about David and Abigail. 215 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: And I remembered this story vaguely. But that's the thing. 216 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: You can read the Bible cover to cover and still 217 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:50,719 Speaker 1: have so much to learn. I always have so much 218 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 1: to learn. But so David and Abigail. It's a situation 219 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: where she's married to a guy who the Bible says 220 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: is basically a jerk. He's a horrible husband. The people 221 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: in his house sold don't respect him. But his wife 222 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: is respectful. I mean, she does what she can to 223 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: keep their household going, and when they're under terrible threat 224 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: at some point, she goes and she's the peacemaker. She 225 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: gives this eloquent speech to David, who is going to 226 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: come attack their household because of the disrespect her husband 227 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: is shown to David, and she makes things right, she 228 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: is a wise woman. Listen, the guy ends up getting 229 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: struck down because God was so mad at her husband 230 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: in the way that he rejected David and was just 231 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: an all around terrible guy. And David remembers her, He 232 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: remembers the peacemaker, the respectful woman that she was in 233 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: coming to make the case. And so he goes back 234 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 1: after she's widowed and says, hey, how about come be 235 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: my wife because he had seen how she operated with 236 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: such grace under pressure and was so impressed by this woman. 237 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 1: And so there was a lot in that story that 238 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: I thought, you know, even if you're in a difficult marriage, 239 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: sometimes just your ability to be a peacemaker or to 240 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: find the best or to even be the person who 241 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: runs interference to try to protect her spouse, sometimes that's 242 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: going to be your role. And she was this woman, 243 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 1: and that the wording that the Bible uses in the 244 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: original language talking about her intelligence, is really a rare thing, 245 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: and it shows that to a strong woman, she kind 246 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 1: of broke the norms of the day, and in doing that, 247 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: she saved her entire household except for her husband, who 248 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: was an evil guy that got taken out in that 249 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: context as you're reading all these various stories, from romantic 250 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: love stories to friendship stories, did any of them remind 251 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: you of your own life, your own experience as your 252 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: own relationships. Yeah, you know what's funny. So I go 253 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: through Song of Solomon, which is very flowery and very racy, 254 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: but you see these two people who are very much 255 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: in love and are trying to get to each other 256 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: in marriage, and they love each other as you do 257 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: in the beginning of relationship, and there's always that passion. 258 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 1: I think that is a good thing. It's not like 259 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: God's surprise, like he invented us in all of this, 260 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: so he obviously ordains that. So you see that beginning 261 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: of their relationship, and it made me think about the 262 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: beginning of my marriage, where I was like so excited, 263 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: like let's get married, let's get on with wife, and 264 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: you don't know all the tough things that are going 265 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: to come at you. And I'm so thankful for twenty 266 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: seven years now with my husband, and I'm thinking I 267 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: really need to up my game on my love notes 268 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,679 Speaker 1: because these notes are like his arms are bands of gold, 269 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: and her teeth are like the whitest goats of the flock. 270 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: I mean it's very flowery and funny to us now 271 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: in modern times. But I think, okay, you know, you 272 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,079 Speaker 1: gotta remember what your relationship was like in the beginning 273 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: and nurture and feed that and try to say, gosh, 274 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: I remember those days, and I still love you in 275 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: an even deeper way now. But maybe I could do 276 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: better than just like, have a great day XO. I'm 277 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: going to work on my love notes. Snoot. That's great. 278 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: If I have to say, picking Solomon as your standard, 279 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: that's a pretty steep mountain. Yeah, exactly. You also have 280 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,559 Speaker 1: some interesting things that I think people almost never think about. 281 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: You look at Samson and Delilah, which is certainly a 282 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: relationship that didn't work out very well, but you actually 283 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: star with the relationship between Samson's parents. How did you 284 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: get to that and what did you draw from him? Yeah, 285 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: it's a quiet kind of relationship. We do get to 286 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: the Samson and Delilah are the superstars, the headliners of 287 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: that story. But to go back, you see this beautiful 288 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: partnership between his parents where she wasn't able to have 289 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: a child. She's then visited by an angel of the 290 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: Lord that many people believe was Christ before he came 291 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 1: to earth and talks to her and says, you're gonna 292 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: have this child. She runs to her husband. Instead of 293 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: him saying, oh, foolish woman, are you hallucinating whatever? Like, 294 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: he immediately believes her and knows that she is a 295 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: woman to be believed, and so he shows great respect 296 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: to her As her husband. They pray, like, Lord, we 297 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: want to get this right. Could you come back and 298 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: tell us more. So the angel comes back to her 299 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: again and she's like, wait a minute, let me go 300 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: get my husband. So we see this beautiful marriage in 301 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: partnership where these two knew that they were having a 302 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: baby that was blessed in a special delivery by God, 303 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: and they wanted to get it right. They wanted to 304 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: make sure they raised him the right way, in a 305 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: way that would honor God. So you have this beautiful 306 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: marriage at the beginning. That Samson didn't model that later 307 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: in his life. And you wonder if he was always 308 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: looking in these bad relationships that he had to get 309 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: to this beautiful thing that his parents had. But they 310 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: definitely said an example that's one of the quiet ones 311 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: in the Bible, but very beautiful. It always struck me 312 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: that Sampson is this very sincere person. He's in a 313 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: sense a patriot in the context of his world. And 314 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: he really is in love with Delilah and trust her totally. 315 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: And she's almost a model of somebody who is totally untrustworthy, 316 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: I mean, who has a false face but in fact 317 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: as set out to destroy Sampson. And it's funny that 318 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: we see that he loves her, But like you said, 319 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: she's always doing somewhat kind of other double dealing because 320 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: she's bribed by these men who are threatened by Sampson. 321 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: And what a great warrior and defender he is of 322 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: the Hebrew people, and so they constantly go to her 323 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: state find out what the strength is, the secret is 324 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: to his strength, and he tells her the wrong thing 325 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: multiple times, and these men rush in, they try whatever 326 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: it is tied me with certain chords. He breaks them off. 327 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: He clear has all his strength and goes after them 328 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: and defeats them. So you gotta wonder why, after time 329 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: after time that Delilah is clearly betraying him, he finally 330 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: gives in and says, this final part of my vow 331 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: is that if my hair is cut, that breaks my 332 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: vow with God, and I'll lose my strength. But he 333 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: was so worn down by this woman and so weak 334 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: when it came to the demands of women in his life, 335 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: that he goes along with this. He gets captured, he said, 336 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: you know, he gets his eyes gouged out. The Philistines 337 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: are making a mockery of him because he had wiped 338 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: them out so many times. They have him chained up 339 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: to the pillars of this temple where they're celebrating, and 340 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: I do think it's so beautiful, as you pointed out. 341 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: In the end, he goes back to God after all 342 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: these messes he's made and said, God, just see me, 343 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: give me strength one more time so I can take 344 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: down this temple and take out everybody with me. He 345 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: knows he's going to be giving up his own life, 346 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: and God is faithful. He hears that humble cry, and 347 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: he shows up and gives Sampson that strength. And Samson 348 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: has this great defeat in laying down his own life 349 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: and taking out thousands of the Philistine who were oppressing 350 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: his people. It's a remarkable story also a story of sacrifice. 351 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: So a man who in the end was willing to 352 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: sacrifice himself to free his people. Now you touch on 353 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: something which I have recently been actually thinking about, and 354 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:17,639 Speaker 1: that is Adam and Eve and the whole degree to 355 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: which it all begins there, both in the sense of 356 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: the original sin, but also in the sense of the relationships. 357 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: And man is lonely, so God takes a rib and 358 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: creates Eve and they have a real relationship, and without 359 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: that all the rest of the Bible doesn't occur. Right. 360 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 1: I don't think it's often told as a love story, 361 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: but in fact, of course it's the first marriage, it's 362 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 1: the first real relationship. It's the first husband and wife. 363 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 1: When you were thinking about it and putting the context 364 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: of your book, did that kind of get to you 365 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: a little bit? This was a miraculous moment, absolutely, because 366 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: think about the creation stories that we're told. Each time 367 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 1: a day wrapped up, say God created the heavens and 368 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: the earth, or the plants or the animals. Every time 369 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 1: it would end with good or he saw that it 370 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: was good. But it wasn't until Adam was standing there 371 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: alone with no partner in this whole thing that it 372 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: was the first time that we see in the Bible 373 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 1: that God say is like it wasn't good. He knew 374 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: something was missing. For Adam, then there was nothing that 375 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: had been created that would be a sufficient partner for him, 376 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 1: And so he does take this rib and creates Eve. 377 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: And the thing that I loved that so beautiful. If 378 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 1: you really look at the scripture and look at the 379 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: original wording, the word for Eve was this easer idea, Like, 380 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: it's not that she was some subservient sidekick. She was 381 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: a partner with him in this a helper, a rescuer, 382 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: and they had this role together that was a beautiful 383 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 1: thing starting out in the Garden of Eden before it 384 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: went tragically wrong. But she's also creating God's image. They 385 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 1: are equals. There's nothing lesser about her. So I think 386 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: any interpretation of Adam and Eve different than that is 387 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: missing the point that God created them to go together 388 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: through life, and they go through really tragic things, and 389 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: they cling to each other and build the world and 390 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,239 Speaker 1: the family as we now know it. Even in the 391 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: story of the app Boling he listens to her. She 392 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:07,640 Speaker 1: clearly has substantial influence. This is not a passive subordinate, 393 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 1: this is a partner. There's a clarity here to the 394 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: emergence of men and woman, the emergence of marriage, the 395 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: emergence of children. I mean, all of these things are 396 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 1: at the core of who we are as human beings, 397 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 1: and it's a beautiful thing. And listen, we as human 398 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: beings have done all kinds of things. When I talk 399 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: about Solomon in this book, I talk about David, and 400 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: they were men who were viewed as after God's own heart, 401 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: but they had their own mistakes with marriages and concubines 402 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: and relationships and all kinds of things that I think 403 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: they got away from this ideal of what we saw 404 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: in the garden there with Adam and Eve, which is 405 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 1: such a beautiful, simple but powerful thing. So I think 406 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: human beings we reinterpret things and go off on our 407 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: own paths that may not be what was the original 408 00:19:49,680 --> 00:20:07,879 Speaker 1: of what God intended. But you also talk about, and 409 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: I think it's a fascinating point that Jesus had a 410 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: uniquely close relationship with the apostle John, and that John 411 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: was very close to Jesus and life and death and 412 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 1: his resurrection. That was probably an enormously important part of 413 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: Jesus's own strength was having someone he was that close 414 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 1: to in the sense I think makes Jesus more human 415 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: in our understanding of the degree to which this was 416 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: God becoming man, not remaining God, so that he needed 417 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: him talk from it in justest about John, I mean, 418 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 1: John turns out to be one of the most significant 419 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 1: figures in that sense in the entire Bible story. Yeah, 420 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 1: and he refers to himself as the one whom Jesus loved, 421 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: and we do see a very real friendship as these 422 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: two journey through life together. And at the beginning, John's 423 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 1: described as he and his brother the sons of Thunder 424 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: because they a lot of righteous anger about people not 425 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: doing things the right way or not going with the 426 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: way that God had outlined or Christ had outlined things, 427 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,199 Speaker 1: and they really wanted to rain down on them. But 428 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,880 Speaker 1: you can see Christ speaking to John's life like, that's 429 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: not the right response here, That's not what we're going 430 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: to do. You see John mature, and he's there at 431 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 1: the cross the very end with jesus mother Mary, and 432 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: we see Christ say to him like, basically, she's your mother. 433 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: Now you take care of her. Now. We see just 434 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: how close that they were. And so John obviously goes 435 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: on to his own trials and ends up giving us 436 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: the Book of Revelation, which ends the Bible. And so 437 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: they had a very special relationship, but we can see 438 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: how it matured over time. And of course Jesus, as 439 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: you said, he walked here as fully god fully human 440 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 1: and had human relationships, and I think we can learn 441 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: through those in these friendships. Of all the disciples, John 442 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: is the one who stays the rest all gets shaken. 443 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: Even Peter, who ultamly founds the modern Church, breaks out 444 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,719 Speaker 1: of fear, and as Christ had warned him, betrays Christ, 445 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: something which he thought he'd never do until the fear 446 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 1: took over, and I suspect never quite recovered from the 447 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: guilt he felt at having betrayed God. Yeah, I think 448 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: you're probably right about that, because all of us want 449 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: to deny as Peter did, that we would ever do it. 450 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: And as you said, at that moment where his pretty 451 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 1: much it was a life or death situation which Jesus 452 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: had been taken in and that sham trial. But the 453 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 1: beating and the torture and all the things that happened 454 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: him leading up to the crucifixion were all human. And 455 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: Peter was and to feel that fear is a very 456 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: real thing. But John was one and maybe it was 457 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: part of that Sons of Thunder, that real boldness that 458 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: he had about him, this real fire and passion about 459 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: believing exactly who Jesus was, that he did stick around 460 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,479 Speaker 1: to the very very bitter end and beyond. There's no 461 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 1: indication in any of the books of Jesus feeling badly 462 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: about the people abandoning him, because he knew they would. 463 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: He knew that they were human and that in the 464 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: end that they would be frightened, and he accepts them, 465 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: and when he does come back from the tomb, he 466 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: no recriminations. There's why did you abandon me? And it's 467 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: almost as though God's love is endless and constant and 468 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:14,880 Speaker 1: truly unconditional. And you talk about the unconditionality that God 469 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,880 Speaker 1: loves us. We may sometimes doubt him, but He never 470 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: doubts us exactly. And I think for us as human beings, 471 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: because what we experience on a daily basis is claud relationships, 472 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 1: sometimes good, sometimes we hurt each other, I think it's 473 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,400 Speaker 1: hard for us to understand this love that God has 474 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: for us, which as you said, is unconditional, and there's 475 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: nothing we can do to earn it. We can't lose it, 476 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:37,880 Speaker 1: we can't get rid of him. There's nothing we can do, 477 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: which I find extremely comforting. No mistake we could make 478 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: that would ever force him to say, like, Okay, forget it, 479 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: I've reached my limit with you. He's just not going 480 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: to I mean, he wants us to walk in relationship 481 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: with him and make good choices and being fellowship with him, 482 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: but he's not going to stop loving us when we 483 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: get that wrong. You, on the one hand, every Sunday 484 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: are dealing with hard news, with terrible things going on 485 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: around the world. And yeah, you do it in a 486 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: context where you are so deeply committed as a Christian. 487 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,679 Speaker 1: Your general view of the world is so positive almost 488 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: no matter what negative thing you're reporting that particular morning. Yeah, 489 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: and there's so much pain in the world. There was 490 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: all through biblical times. We see people suffer enormous losses. 491 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: We talked about Joe. I mean there was infertility and 492 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 1: heartbreaking widowhood and financial ruin. I mean, none of the 493 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: suffering is new to God. And the thing about Christ 494 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: walking the earth with us is that we're told like 495 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,919 Speaker 1: he suffered in every way as we do. He gets it. 496 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: He knows what it's like to be tempted, to have 497 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: your heartbroken. He knows all of those devastating losses. Think 498 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: about when he wept at the loss of his friend Lazarus. 499 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: He was very human in that respect. So listen as 500 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: they cover these things. My heart does break for these people, 501 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: especially innocent people who are drawn into tragedies, and I 502 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: put them right on my prayer list because I don't 503 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: know how people manage the heartbreaking, devastating news, the division, 504 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 1: the real hurtful things without some form of faith in 505 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: their life. For me, that's the redeeming quality to the 506 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,880 Speaker 1: whole thing that makes it all work. Otherwise, I think 507 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:12,199 Speaker 1: you're walking into just a wall full of negative, devastating 508 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: news every day, and if you don't have some hope 509 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: beyond that, beyond this world, it would be tough to do. 510 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: And that context, do you find that your faith enables 511 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,400 Speaker 1: you to avoid getting depressed by the very things you're 512 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: covering most of the time, Yeah, I think COVID was 513 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: really really hard, because that was one where every day 514 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 1: you were just covering the story. We all were the story. 515 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: Every single one of us worried about people that we loved. 516 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: We worried for ourselves, for our children, for our livelihoods, 517 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: for our economies, for lives just being lost all around 518 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: the world by the millions. I mean think that was 519 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: a really tough one and it was a good reset 520 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,360 Speaker 1: for me because it reminded me that every morning for me, 521 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: I got to start in prayer and in Bible study. 522 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 1: I like journaling as well. It helps me to look 523 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: and see what I'm learning, hopefully and what God's promises 524 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: are writing them down. So I think COVID was a 525 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: real test for all of us. It really stretched us. 526 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: We felt isolated, we felt anxious and fearful, and it 527 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: really it was a good reset for me to remember 528 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: this world is not all there is, and that God 529 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,719 Speaker 1: is very aware of all of the suffering. You've just 530 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 1: now brought out the love stories of the Bible speak 531 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: biblical lessons on romance, friendship, and faith. Have you begun 532 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: thinking about another book? I haven't, but I actually have 533 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: sketched out a fiction book that I feel like it's 534 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: finely inspired. The whole story kind of came to me 535 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: in a rush, and I wrote it down and got 536 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: it out, and I thought, I don't know if they're 537 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: any good at fiction. I mean, you're one of these 538 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 1: writers that's good at everything. I think it's a totally 539 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: different skill set, but I'm really anxious to see if 540 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: I could try and do it justice. So I'm going 541 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,439 Speaker 1: to work on that. You are a great story teller, 542 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,719 Speaker 1: and I'm absolutely confident that whatever you decide to do, 543 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: whether it's writing poetry or haiku or novels or another 544 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 1: nonfiction book, that you'll just do it well. You're one 545 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: of those people who has a remarkable level of universal competence. 546 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,880 Speaker 1: Thank you, and I do enjoy a haikup. I think 547 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 1: they're a fun challenge. See there you go. Somehow intuitively 548 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: I knew I was going to touch on it. Shannon. 549 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: I want to thank you for joining me again. And 550 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 1: your new book really reminds us that no matter where 551 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 1: we find ourselves, God's on wavering love will sustain and 552 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: guide us. The insights you share into these biblical relationships 553 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: will both up left and encourage people. And I recommend 554 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: everyone listening get a copy of The Love Stories of 555 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: the Bible Speak Biblical Lessons on Romance, Friendship, and Faith, 556 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: which is on sale now. What you've done in really 557 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: bringing the Bible into everyday life is a remarkable achievement. 558 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: It's a thrill to me that you would take the 559 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: time to be with us here on news World. Thank 560 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: you very very much, thank you. I'm just glad to 561 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: be the vessel for this. Mister Spierwit, thank you for 562 00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: having me. Thank you to my guest Shannon Bream. You 563 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 1: can get a link to buy her new book, The 564 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,679 Speaker 1: Love Stories of the Bible Speak on our showpage at 565 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 1: newtworld dot com. NEWT World is produced by gingwistreet sixty 566 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:17,120 Speaker 1: and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Garnsey Sloan, our producer 567 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 1: is Rebecca Howell, and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The 568 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,400 Speaker 1: all work for the show was created by Steve Penley. 569 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: Special thanks to the team at Gingwide three sixty. If 570 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,360 Speaker 1: you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple 571 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: Podcast and both rate us with five stars and give 572 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: us a review so others can learn what it's all about. 573 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: Right now, listeners of neut World can sign up from 574 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: my three free weekly columns at gingwigtree sixty dot com 575 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: slash newsletter. I'm newt Gangwidge. This is newt World.