1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:16,319 Speaker 1: from House Stuff Works dot com? Hey, and welcome to 4 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: the podcast. Actually I should probably try Hey, and welcome 5 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 1: to the podcast. This is about serial killers, right, Yeah. 6 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: I actually I'm glad you brought that up because I 7 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: wanted to mention that we have a lot of fun 8 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: in the show and we joke around, and we will 9 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: probably do that in the serial Killer podcast. Will and 10 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,599 Speaker 1: I find them fascinating, but we always remember that there 11 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: are real victims here and we don't want them to 12 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: fly to that or anything. Yeah. No, but the serial 13 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: killers are so grizzly and their acts are so monstrous 14 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 1: that it almost is easy to just detach and be like, hey, 15 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: what's your favorite serial killer? They actually have serial killer 16 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: training cards. Huh. Yeah, but we don't play that game. No, 17 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: we don't. We play Old Maid. So I'm Josh Clark. 18 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: The guy you just heard talking, uh is Charles W. 19 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 1: Chuck Bryant. If this is your first time to Stuff 20 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: you Should Know, Um, there is a goodie bag that 21 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: we have for you, if you'll check under your seat 22 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: should be taped under there. Send us an email and 23 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: we'll try to see what we can come up with 24 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: as a replacement. Probably just a response saying sorry. You 25 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: know what they get. They get two hundred and fifteen 26 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:29,479 Speaker 1: free podcasts. Oh that's a good deal automatically, that is nice, 27 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: chuck Um. So what are we talking about today? Serial killers? Oh? Yeah, 28 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: that's right, Chuck. Here's the intro. Yeah. If you can't tell, 29 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: I'm a little twitchy, a little jumpy. You may even 30 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: hear a little bit of gum in my mouth that 31 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: I probably should take out being a professional podcast vehemently, 32 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: he just spit out his gum. Okay, so my gum 33 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: is out. But the reason I'm doing this and acting 34 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: all twitchy is because I have quit smoking for the 35 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: first time in twenty years. I'm actually doing it. I've 36 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: tried a couple of times, but we all know that 37 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: it was half hearted at best. But I'm actually quitting smoking. 38 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: Very proud of you, buddy. Thank you. Like I told 39 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: you in the email you didn't reply to if that's 40 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: very brave and terrifying thing you're doing. You have all 41 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: my support, Thank you very much. I want to keep 42 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: you around, and by proxy, I imagine I have Jerry's 43 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: support too. Yeah she can't said, yeah, So if I 44 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: do seem a little weird, it is because of that 45 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: today and I apologize. What's you're flying in japandam Mar, 46 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: So it's just all you're all weird right now, dah, 47 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: I am perfect time to do serial killers? Okay, so 48 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: let's talk serial killers, Chuck, Chuck, Where in the name 49 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 1: of God did the term serial killers come from? And 50 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: the middle of what decade did it come from? Coming 51 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 1: It was coin Josh in the mid seventies by Robert Wrestler, 52 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:58,239 Speaker 1: and he was a former FBI director of the Violent 53 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:02,239 Speaker 1: Criminal Apprehensions Program, which imagine as a pretty fun laugh 54 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: a minute job. And uh he apparently he chose cereal 55 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: because the English police called those kinds of crimes crimes 56 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 1: in a series, right and we uh we find in 57 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: the article written by Shanna Freeman pretty good one too, 58 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: like um that he was also a fan of serials 59 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: that like you would watch like at the movies, like 60 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: The Lone Ranger or something like that. So I thought 61 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 1: it was a little weird, Like I love The Lone Ranger. 62 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna give a little shout out to him 63 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: by coining this term. Yeah, they used to call them 64 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: mass murders before that, or my favorite, it sounds like 65 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: a personal's ad stranger on stranger crime. I like that, 66 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: but it is true. I mean it is stranger crime 67 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: and kind of uh underlines one of the I guess 68 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: the riveting and and um most characteristic aspects of serial 69 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: killers is that they they lack what would appear to 70 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: any of the rest of us a motive. They're not 71 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: killing for money. Um, they're not killing for um, you know, 72 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: to get rid of a problem or because they're they've 73 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: been they're a jilted lover. The the key hallmark of 74 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: the serial killers that they kill for the pleasure of killing, 75 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: for the sake of killing, and their subcategories will get 76 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 1: into within that. But yeah, totally right on the money there. 77 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: And there's a couple of other kinds of murderers that 78 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: um people often confuse serial killers with. So let's just 79 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 1: clear the air right now. Let's start with mass murderers, right, 80 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,559 Speaker 1: what do you have to do to become a mass murderer? Uh, 81 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: you have to kill four or more people at the 82 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: same time or roughly the same time in the same place. 83 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: So like a school shooter would be a mass murderer, 84 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: right right, right, And then of course you've got these 85 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: free killers. Uh. Those are like office shooters who go 86 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: from an from their house, say, after killing their family, 87 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 1: and then they're like, I got one more problem place 88 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: I want to take care of. They go to the office, 89 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,359 Speaker 1: shoot that place up, kill some more people, and then 90 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: drive off to a gas station and blow their heads 91 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: off in in the in the van. Yeah. Yes. And 92 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: a serial killer, officially defined by the FBI, means you 93 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: it has to be three or more victims. And like 94 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: you said, the hallmark is there's got to be a 95 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: cooling off period in between. So like I killed somebody 96 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: and then like in Jeffrey Dahmer's case, I think he 97 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: waited years and years before he killed his second victim, 98 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: and then another long period because he was like eighteen 99 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: and when he started and yeah, yeah, something like that, 100 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 1: and then he waited and I think, and this is 101 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 1: all from memories, not in the article, and then um, 102 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: I think he waited a long time between second and 103 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: third and then they you know, as usual, it starts 104 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: picking up in succession, that kind of off the cliff 105 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: they go the further off the cliff they go, and 106 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: boy did he go off the cliff. We're gonna talk 107 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,559 Speaker 1: about some famous serial killers later, right, Okay, we gotta 108 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: we gotta mention him. Um. As a matter of fact, 109 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 1: I think we would be professionally irresponsible if we didn't 110 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 1: mention Jeffrey Dahmer in depth. I think you're right, Um, Chuck. 111 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: There's uh. I think been approximately four hundred serial killer 112 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: in the US in the past century by estimates, right, Um. 113 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: And strangely, there's been a I think it an increase 114 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: of some vast percentage, but eighty percent of those have 115 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: come about since nineteen and they actually think the earliest 116 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: when the most widely cited first serial killer in the 117 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: US was a guy named H. H. Holmes. Yeah, he 118 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: had the Holmes Murder Castle in Chicago at the World's Fair. 119 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: He built this hotel basically and it was literally like 120 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: you check in, but you don't check out type of situation. Yeah. 121 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: And remember on the Urban Planning podcast we talked about 122 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: the the the guy who came up with the the 123 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: City Beautiful movement, and that's where he debuted. It was 124 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: at that at that World's Fair, right while people were 125 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: getting off at a at a hotel nearby, so he's 126 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: the first one. They say, I think, uh, twenty seven confessions. 127 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: But they as always almost with all these grogler killers, 128 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: they say, well they tagged this many, but there may 129 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: have been hundreds, right. And then sometimes most of the 130 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: time it's that they can get him for like two 131 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: or three, which is really all you need, um, and 132 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: then they'll confess to about you know, X number more 133 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: and then people will suspect that yeah, there's they actually 134 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: you know, kill the hundred or so people. But um, 135 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: in other cases it's actually they'll confess to more than 136 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: they actually did kill. Like Henry Lee Lucas has um 137 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: come into question over the over the years as to 138 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: how many people he actually killed. Like they know he 139 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: killed his mother, and they were pretty sure he kill 140 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: at least one other person. But if he only killed two, 141 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: he's technically not a serial killer. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Well, 142 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: and then the also the other thing in like the 143 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: case of Wayne Williams, the Atlanta child strangler, he uh 144 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: or I don't think he's strangled child killer? He uh. 145 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: They kind of tacked on a bunch of murders onto 146 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: his wrap that they wanted to close the cases on. Yeah, 147 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: did you ever hear about pretty Kinky case? Yeah, yeah, 148 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: I remember it kind of came back around in like 149 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: two thousand five or something. He was up for parole 150 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: or something, and the case was it sounds like he's 151 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: innocent if you if you start investigating the case, it's 152 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: really circumstantial. Um, that's our opinion. Uh so, Chuck, Josh, 153 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: how do you classify a serial killer? Well, there's a 154 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: couple of ways. You can classify them based on motive, 155 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: or you can classify them based on uh social patterns, 156 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:40,199 Speaker 1: organizational patterns. So if you're talking motive, Um, you're talking 157 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 1: about Holmes typology named for Ronald and Stephen Holmes, right, 158 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 1: not h H. Holmes, you become a serial killer, you're 159 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: not allowed to actually classify any of your ilk extremely enough, 160 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: that's true. And they are authors of textbooks on violent crimes, 161 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: and they came up with this from anecdotal data. So 162 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: a lot of people poopo it. But when you're talking 163 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: serial killers, a lot of times all you can do 164 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: is interview these people and compile it and try and 165 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: draw you know, conclusions based on that. Right. So what 166 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:14,559 Speaker 1: they came up with was, um, there's two kinds of Um, 167 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: I guess motive based. Sure. Uh, there's act focus and 168 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: process focus focus. So act focus means like you're you're 169 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 1: you're killing quickly, and you're usually killing for a reason. 170 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 1: There's a larger reason and the killing is kind of 171 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: means to the end of achieving that reason. Process focused 172 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: is kind of the um that's the serial killer who 173 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: enjoys killing, enjoys taking someone's life, will likely torture the 174 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 1: person over a period of time, will kill them kind 175 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: of brutally. Uh. There's it's not quick and it's messy. Yeah, 176 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: and there's there's subcategories within each of those. The act 177 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: focused killers are visionary or missionary. Visionary means they hear 178 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: voices and have like a vision saying like go kill 179 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 1: I think on Sam was one of those. Yeah, he 180 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: didn't his neighbor's dog talent quite a vision. And Uh, 181 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: missionary murders um believe they're on like a mission to 182 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:14,679 Speaker 1: get rid of like prostitutes, like the Green River killer. Right. Um. 183 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: And you could also um make the case that um 184 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: uh John Wayne Gacy was a mission focused or missionary 185 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: act focused serial killer because he had said after he 186 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 1: got caught like they're gonna give me an award for 187 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: getting rid of these you know, clousy, bad kids that 188 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: I killed. Um. But there's also a distinction among serial 189 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: killers that they often rationalize what they're doing by justifying 190 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: it to a larger authority, like they were providing society 191 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: a service. So depending on exactly how he was saying that, 192 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: it could go either way. Did you here see what 193 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: the Green River killer said in his police statement to 194 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 1: the jury, I just hate prostitute, hate prostitites. It's like, 195 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: all right, yeah, I remember Van Nostrin was reading a 196 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: book about that. Oh that's right, remember, Yeah. So the 197 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: subcategories for the processed focus slow killers are fall into 198 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: three groups. Um, lust killers, that's pretty self explanatory. Um, 199 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: but not check the ripper, right yeah, dah, yeah, we'll 200 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: get into him. Uh, I'm sorry. Thrill and gain killers, 201 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: and that means they either get a kick out of 202 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: killing or they think they're going to profit in some way. 203 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,719 Speaker 1: And then the power seeking killers, who those are the 204 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: guys who like to play god. And we say guys 205 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: a lot because it's mostly white men. I think. Yeah, 206 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: it's very infrequent that you have a serial killer who 207 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 1: kills outside of his ethnic group, meaning that it's white 208 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: on white crime. Very rarely do you have a female 209 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: serial killer, right, although there's a pretty prominent one UM 210 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: named Charlie's Thearren you heard, yeah, where they ugly at 211 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: her up for that movie. Way they did a good 212 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: There's a picture of um Eileen Warnos in this article, 213 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: and by god, she doesn't look just like Charlie's Thearren 214 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: and monster. But she killed Uh she was convicted of 215 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: killing seven men and probably killed more. Yeah, but she 216 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:19,559 Speaker 1: was one of the very few real female serial killers. Yeah, 217 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,319 Speaker 1: there's a couple. We have a list that you know 218 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: how Josh loves this list, so we have a list 219 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: later on. We would like to get the ladies there 220 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 1: due because we called a task for not naming female 221 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: geniuses and Chuck. There's another way to classify serial killers, 222 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 1: and that's by their level of organization, right yeah, organized 223 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: or disorganized? Right? So organized e g. Dexter. You've got 224 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: somebody who, like um, drives a flashy car. Smart uh 225 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: smart Um? Actually there, he would be considered non social, 226 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: which we can't quite wrap our heads around that. But 227 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: it's um. I think it's being excluded from society. But 228 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: still being capable of existing or appearing to exist in society, 229 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: right sure, Okay, so they may also taunt the police. 230 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: They're probably educated, um and uh, they follow the news right, 231 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: keep up with modern events. They have daytime habits. They 232 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: is interesting. They may show up um as a like 233 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: a somebody who can help the police as a witness 234 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: crime or something like that, just to kind of get 235 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: a thrill out of that as well. Um, and then 236 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: of course you've got disorganized, right, this is like ed 237 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: Gan or Robert Picton just basically like the like you 238 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: can look at and be like, you're a serial killer, 239 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: aren't you. Yeah, And that's pretty they're pretty much the 240 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: opposite like everything we said. And there's a list of 241 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: things here for for organized and disorganized, and they're all 242 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: pretty much opposite. So disorganized means you live alone, you 243 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: don't date, you have no interest in the news, you 244 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: have nighttime habits, you aren't interested in the cops and 245 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: police work. You're kind of dumb. You you really don't dismember, 246 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: whereas organized person dismembers, Which is weird because again Robert 247 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: picked in um hung his victims on uh meat hooks 248 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: in his barn and disembowel them. Yeah, it was bad. Um, 249 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: but he had nighttime habits and was disorganized killer, So 250 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: it's kind of weird. I don't think anything's exactly cut 251 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: and dry when it comes to serial killers. Yeah. Well 252 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: they said the majority of them are organized and non social, 253 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: but they're like you know, we said, plenty of the 254 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: others as well. Um. And the other thing I thought 255 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: was interesting was the McDonald triad. Had you ever heard 256 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: of this? I had, but I've never heard of it. 257 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: I've never heard it called that. Yeah, they said that 258 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: serial killers often exhibit, uh, these three behaviors in childhood, 259 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: and it's known as the McDonald triad um formerly the 260 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: ray Croc triad um, bed wedding, arson and cruelty to animals. 261 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: And I surprised Josh with the fact that I was 262 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: nearly on the path myself. I because famously I was 263 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: a late bedweater, as I have admitted famously, and well 264 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: whoever listens to us, and um, I was kind of 265 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: into like fires. I wasn't an arsonist, but I love 266 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: playing with fire, but I love animals like crazy. So 267 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: you have the McDonald die ede not crazy crazy, but 268 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: I love hannibals. That's funny that you bring that up, Chuckers, 269 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: because a lot of people assume that serial killers are 270 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: in fact crazy. That's really far off base, at least 271 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: legally speaking. Right. So, there's a lot of debate now 272 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: actually more than ever, um, between psychology and sociology. And 273 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: we'll get into that a little further, but let's let's 274 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: talk about, um, you know, the kind of psychological motives. 275 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: But there's a little bit of foreshadowing. Take it with 276 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: grain salt, because there's a whole school thought out there 277 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: that thinks psychology has totally dropped the ball on explaining 278 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: criminal behavior, specifically serial killing. Right. So standard stuff that's 279 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: been around for decades is um that serial killers are 280 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: the result of combination of neglect and abuse. Right. Yes, 281 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: they've done studies. FBI has done studies and interviewed dozens 282 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: and dozens of killers, serial killers, all kinds of killers, 283 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: and they found a similar pattern, and most of them 284 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: of childhood abuse and neglect. And it makes sense because 285 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: when you're a kid, you're growing up, you're developing as 286 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: a normal, normal child. There are very important periods when 287 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: you learn about things like empathy and trust and love 288 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: and being nice with your fellow man, just very basic 289 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: rules of humanity, and if you don't have those, then 290 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: it's not imprinted on your little kid brain and you 291 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: may not be able to learn it later on in life. Right, 292 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: makes it a little tougher, Yeah, which is really sad. 293 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: It it is sad, and actually again, um, like, I 294 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: think it's appropriate that Jeffrey Dahmer is off to the 295 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: side in that little section because it's really weird. Because 296 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: I was thinking about it today, I've realized that I've 297 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: always kind of felt bad for that guy because of 298 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: the life that he had, Like he was abandoned by 299 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 1: his family. Is not just like his parents, like one 300 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,360 Speaker 1: parent left, Like I think his dad left and then 301 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: his mom was like, I'm gonna go look for a 302 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 1: boyfriend and take the younger ones with me. You stay here, 303 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: And he was like seventeen and just left to live 304 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: the rest of his life on his own. I think 305 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: that played a huge factor in I imagine the neglect, right, 306 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: and then you have UM abuse. So usually they're finding 307 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: when they study serial killers that there is that combination 308 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 1: of UH neglect from the parents and UM abuse, either 309 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: direct abuse, whether it's a physical, emotional, sexual um or 310 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: witnessing the abuse of others, a sibling or both. I 311 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: imagine it's probably worse. And um they've actually seen in 312 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: rats with the neglect, not with the abuse part, but 313 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:06,959 Speaker 1: with neglect. Rats that um are not that that are 314 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,360 Speaker 1: basically neglected or rejected by their parents by their mother 315 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: actually show um symptoms of rats sociopathy as they get older. 316 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: I feel so bad for the rats. I know, it's 317 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: like the did someone actually abuse the rats to see 318 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: how they react? Kind of you like flick them and stuff. 319 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 1: If you put on a white lab coat, you can 320 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,919 Speaker 1: pretty much do whatever you want to a rat and 321 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: the rats. Oh. The other thing that you know you 322 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:36,199 Speaker 1: mentioned Amer it was so disturbing and just like oddly 323 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: fascinating was when he was a teenager. I think one 324 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,719 Speaker 1: of the first really odd acts he did was he 325 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: like saw a dead deer in the woods. Did you 326 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: ever hear about that? And he like laid down with 327 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: a deer and like, you know, cuddled with it. It's 328 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: like Johnny Depp and dead Man in the forest. Oh, yeah, 329 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: you're right. And uh, then before he killed, I know, 330 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: he knocked a jogger out cold in the woods and 331 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: like laid down with his unconscious body to try and 332 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: stave off this desire to kill. Yeah, and well, I 333 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: don't even know if it was to stave off the 334 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 1: desire to kill as much as if he was tired 335 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: of people leaving him alone. He wanted to be with people. 336 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: One of the things that he was famous for was 337 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: an attempt to make a zombie who would stay with him, 338 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: so he would he would lure like young prostitute boys 339 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: back to his house or his apartment and then attack him. 340 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: There was one kid that he drilled a hole in 341 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: the guy's head and was able to pour drain oh 342 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: into it, and the guy stayed alive like that for 343 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: a few days, and Dahmer, a guest, said, you know, 344 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: I just didn't want him to leave. Yeah, he wanted companionship. Yeah. 345 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: So he was trying to make a zombie using drain though, 346 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 1: and I think that probably also accounts for the cannibalism 347 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: as well. Is he trying to ingest something to keep 348 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: it as a part of himself. This is all just 349 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,959 Speaker 1: armchair psychology, but it's we could pretty much charge for 350 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 1: this with the level that psychologists contributed so far. You know, 351 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: I wonder if match dot com would have been around, 352 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: if he could have found like a mate, if that 353 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 1: never would have happened, maybe so, or maybe he would 354 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: have killed the mate and then use match dot com 355 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: to find his victims. Oh yeah, So, Chuck, we are 356 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: talking about whether or not serial killers are insane. And 357 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: if you look at the US Code for the insanity defense, 358 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: they don't fit the bill almost Ever, when you read 359 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 1: the definition, at the time of the commission of the 360 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: acts constituting the offense, the defendant, as a result of 361 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: a severe mental disease or defect, was unable to appreciate 362 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 1: the nature and quality of the wrongfulness of his acts. 363 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: Mental disease or defect does not otherwise constitute defense. Right, 364 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: So you don't understand what you're doing. You don't is 365 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 1: right and wrong? Is right and wrong? And you also 366 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 1: aren't You're not You're not taking a life like that's 367 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: not your goal. You're not thinking about that. This flies 368 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: in the face of serial killing. Well, that's only two 369 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: have only gotten off with that plea of insanity, right, 370 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 1: and one of them was a game and he wore 371 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: people's skin. Yeah, he was the inspiration for Buffalo Bill 372 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: and leather Face. Yeah, and Texas changeaw Masacar do the 373 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: dance for me? Baby was Texas Changsaw Mascar summer school 374 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 1: reference when they were watching Texas. That was a reference 375 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: in a reference. I thought you were gonna do the like, uh, well, 376 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: you help me with this couch good. You do a 377 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: way better Buffalo Bill than me. I don't know, you, 378 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: big fat gruel. That's so disturbing. It is a great movie, though, Yeah, 379 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: and we like that one picture. Yeah. Sure. Did I 380 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: ever tell you my Silence of the Lamb story? I 381 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: went to uh An Athens in college. I went to 382 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: see Dances with Wolves and they said, and if you 383 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: want to stay after for a free screening of Silence 384 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 1: of the Lambs of Jodie Foster and Anthony Hopkins. And 385 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: I was like, I'll stay. And I heard Silence of 386 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: the Lambs Jodie Foster, Anthony Hopkins. I thought it was 387 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,879 Speaker 1: gonna be like Our Merchant everything. I cut to thirty 388 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: minutes into the movie when I have my you know, 389 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: hair glued to the ceiling of the theater. I was like, 390 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 1: holy crap. Yeah that was a good movie. It still 391 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: is too, but when it came out it was like groundbreaking. Definitely, 392 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: it's good stuff. Um, but yeah, Buffalo Bob and Buffalo Bill. 393 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: You know that one and Leatherface were both based on Ageen, 394 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: who is one of I think two serial killers in 395 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 1: the US to ever get off on an insanity played. Yea, 396 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: he was rough, he was, and he looks like it too. 397 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 1: He's wearing like flannel and he's just staying in on 398 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: his sports like I'll kill you, I'll kill you. And 399 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: I think psycho Um Anthony Hopkins character is based on 400 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: a Geene as well. Yeah, he made a big splash 401 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: when he came up because again I think he was 402 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: in the forties or early fifty and this was way 403 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 1: before people before the term serial killer was ever around. So, um, 404 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: what serial killers have as far as psychology can come 405 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: up with as far as the d s M four 406 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: soon to be the d s M five right, which 407 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: coincidentally not Quinn itdentally comes out in two thousand twelve 408 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: because it's going to be the end of the world. 409 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,439 Speaker 1: And um, but they've come up with is that serial 410 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:13,360 Speaker 1: killer stuffer from a personality disorder antisocial personality disorder, Um 411 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 1: a k A psychopath, right, And I have a buddy 412 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,360 Speaker 1: who's a sociologist, A University of Alberta that I first 413 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: ran across when I was writing an article on sociology 414 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: and serial killing. And he says, of course they have 415 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: a personality disorder. It's like they're serial killers. Is that 416 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: really the best you can come up with? After literally 417 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: decades of intense research, people have have been their entire 418 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 1: careers onto the study of serial killers from a psychological standpoint, 419 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: the best you can come up with is a personality disorder. 420 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 1: And that's sad but true. When I when I when 421 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 1: I UH interviewed this guy first, I imagine him he 422 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 1: was going to be like, well, you know, we think 423 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 1: we can kind of help psychology out, like maybe to 424 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: understand or hash it out. He's like, no, psychology is 425 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: utterly and completely failed at this, and it's time to 426 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 1: take another look at it. Interesting. Yeah, um, while you 427 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: were talking about the ap D though, that um anti 428 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: social personality of order disorder. There's seven factors that determine 429 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: that and if you have three of them, if you're 430 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,640 Speaker 1: diagnosed with three of them, then I think you are 431 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: considered technically as having a p D. Okay, let's I'm 432 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: a little nervous right now. You're playing at home, see 433 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: which applies to you. Number one a failure to a 434 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 1: bide by the law or to conform to social norms um. 435 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: Number two deceitfulness that is often found in the form 436 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 1: of habitual lying or multiple aliases. Number three, you're aliases. 437 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 1: A failure to plan ahead or acting on impulse. Yeah. 438 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: Number four repeated physical fights or assaults that indicate irritability 439 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: or aggressiveness. You're not a fighter. Number five a reckless 440 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: disregard for safety of others or self. I do love 441 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,879 Speaker 1: bumper cars, so we'll call that a thing. Okay. Number 442 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: six a repeated failure to sustain a job or an 443 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: ability to honor financial obligations. Now you've got a good gig. 444 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 1: I would give that maybe a third of a ding 445 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: previous life Josh, but current Josh is very responsible, that 446 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: is true. And number seven, uh, they are indifferent to 447 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: suffering from uh suffering of another. So basically you don't 448 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: have the mirrorner on that gives you empathy like we 449 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: were talking about with synesthesia. Okay, So how many did 450 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: you have to have to have a p D UM 451 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 1: three out of seven? Okay, I had five. Everybody, I 452 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: have UH, anti social personality disorder, just thank you for that. 453 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: The good news is, Josh, you are not insane. No, 454 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 1: I know. I know it because I know right from 455 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 1: wrong right. And uh, if I were a serial killer, 456 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: I just really really like to kill. Like Gary Ridgeway, 457 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: I just really really hate prostitutes. You know, you turned 458 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: out to be a serial podcaster, thankfully for all of us, 459 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: because they occur in a series. Um, Chuck, can you 460 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,880 Speaker 1: tell a little bit of disdain here in my voice? Yes? 461 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: So I thought it was a smoking thing. No, it's 462 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: it's part of it for sure. Um. But it's so 463 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 1: back to sociology, okay, because this really makes sense to me. Um, 464 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 1: But it's such a radical departure from how we've always 465 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 1: viewed serial killers. You view them as crazy. There's some 466 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: sort of psychological problem with them, right, Um. Sociologists say, yeah, 467 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: they have any social personality disorder, But it doesn't mean 468 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: that that's a problem psychology has to tackle. It's not 469 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 1: a mental flaw, it's a character flaw. And yeah, I'm 470 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: sure that the neglect by parents didn't help. I'm sure 471 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 1: the abuse really made it worse. But people can go 472 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 1: through that and never become a serial killer. And it's 473 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: it's actually the movement of this organism we call society, 474 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: and it's current mood that can produce serial killers. Right 475 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: And basically since nineteen fifty there's a lot of people 476 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,360 Speaker 1: who point to this post era as a time when 477 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: there's just been such social change that you could conceivably 478 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: call it a societal breakdown, like degradation of morals, violent films, 479 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: video games where you kill people in the first person 480 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,199 Speaker 1: point of view. Right. And I didn't know this, but 481 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: Kevin Higgerdy told me this. Um. Apparently in the late 482 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 1: early modern era, so say, like the nineteenth century, prostitutes 483 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: were actually much more a part of the community than 484 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: they are now. Right, So we're actually more puritanical towards 485 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: prostitution than we were like a hundred or so years ago. Uh. 486 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,199 Speaker 1: And he's saying that as a result of prostitutes becoming 487 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: more and more and more outcast in society, Um, they 488 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:06,439 Speaker 1: have become more and more of a target favorite target 489 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: of serial killers who love the act of killing. They 490 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: don't hate the person that they're killing, unless you're Gary Ridgeway. 491 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,439 Speaker 1: But you're just looking for somebody you can kill and 492 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: get away with, because you're not crazy, you know what. 493 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: You're doing is wrong, right. Um. And then that, combined 494 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 1: with society turning its back on prostitutes, making them basically 495 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: live out these very dangerous lives, has allowed the rise 496 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 1: of serial killing to come up because of these changes 497 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,159 Speaker 1: like that, And that's just one of many changes. The 498 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: really disturbing part of all this is that in sociologies 499 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: few we're all serial killers. There's just society hasn't changed 500 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 1: quite enough to to trigger that behavior in us. Well, 501 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: let's hope that never happens. Yeah, let's hope indeed. Yeah, 502 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: that's really interesting and it's like a totally different way 503 00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: to look at it, and it makes a lot more 504 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 1: sense to me. Well, you know, another way to look 505 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: at it. A lot of people think that, uh, you know, 506 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: these serial killers are so far gone and that something 507 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: is up with their brain. They can't help it. They've 508 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: got a brain malfunction going on. And they've done a 509 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: lot of studies on brain damage, and Um, one I 510 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: came across found that thirty confessed killers not necessarily still 511 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: serial killers on death row are mentally ill, and six 512 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: of that twenty had frontal lobe abnormalities. No accident, I 513 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: don't think, and of all confessed serial killers have no 514 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: brain damage so due. So that's I mean, that's almost 515 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 1: down the middle. So I think there's a variety of factors, 516 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: one of which definitely could be brain injury. What was 517 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: that one? Guy? Um? Oh? What was Bobby Joe Long? 518 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 1: He has the best quote in this whole article. You 519 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 1: want to read it, but it's okay, okay. Bobby Joe Long, 520 00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: he was convicted of nine murders and he stated in 521 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: his quote, Uh, after I'm dead, they're going to open 522 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: up my head and find that, just like we've been saying, 523 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: a part of my brain is black and dry and dead. 524 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean that's that hits it on the 525 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: head man. That's creepy. It is creepy. And that's basically 526 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: him saying, you know, something is wrong with my brain, dudes, 527 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: and after I died, you're gonna check it out and 528 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 1: you're gonna see that I'm right. And what's interesting is 529 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: any time you say a quote like that, you automatically 530 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: attract people who are waiting for you to die now 531 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: because they're like, well, you just threw it out in 532 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: the gauntlet. I want to see if part of your 533 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: brain is black and dry and dead, I personally want 534 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: to know. Yeah, so, Chuck, we've got not insane, possibly 535 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: brain damaged in my opinion, definitely a product of society, 536 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: anti social personality disorder, people abused and neglected. So how 537 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 1: do you how do you catch such a person? Especially 538 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: if there's four hundred of them over the last century 539 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: in the United States? This is like a needle in 540 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,719 Speaker 1: a haystack, right, Yeah, except the murder to a needle. Yeah. Basically, 541 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: what you do if you're a fed or a copper 542 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: working the beat, searching out the serial killer. Do you 543 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: want to get a do you want to get a signature? 544 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: You want to get a modus operandi and m O, 545 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: and you want to combine those to come up with 546 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: a profile and a signature is like, UM, if you 547 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: pose your victims in a certain pose, or if you 548 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: always dumped them in a certain spot, that's a signature 549 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 1: that you can look at to help profile or even 550 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: the UM The way you dispatch your victims, Yeah, well 551 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: that's part of the m O. The way you kill them. 552 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: Certainly the ritual of it, that's a big time giveaway. 553 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: But what what I found interesting was that the m 554 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: O changes and involves and actually grows more mature over time. Um, basically, 555 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: it's the killer learning from past mistakes. So your MO 556 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: is going to So if like your early m O was, 557 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,719 Speaker 1: you know, learning somebody into a van and like a 558 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: crowded area, R right, and you almost caught a couple 559 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: of times, then you may lure somebody into your vans still, 560 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: but it's not going to be in a crowded area anymore, 561 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: or something like that. So that's that's an example of 562 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,479 Speaker 1: the m O changing over to lured them into your 563 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: el camino in a crowded area. Yeah, I think you 564 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: can generally trust people who drive el caminos, but the 565 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: van the abduction man, if you've got a tiny round 566 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: window on the back of rear side of your vand 567 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: and that's it, then you're in big trouble. You do 568 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: not get in a van like that effect to stay 569 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: out of vans entirely. It almost always ends up badly 570 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 1: for the person who was lured in there. Yeah, that's 571 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: why they invented the minivan. Actually, that's why they invented 572 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: the minivan because it just looks more family friendly and 573 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: not like you're a serial killer. Yeah, that's that's what 574 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: I heard. It makes sense. So profiling Josh started in 575 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: the seventies with Ted Bunny was one of the first ones. Actually, yeah, 576 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: and I guess they nailed him then down. Yeah, they 577 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: said that his profile was almost perfect, right down to 578 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: the point where they predicted that he would have a 579 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: step brother. That's like pretty serious profiling if you're getting 580 00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: that detailed. Yeah, and they were right. Yeah, what all 581 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 1: they missed though? Yeah, they got a stepbrother wrong, but 582 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: they are the right. But they got his address wrong 583 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: right off by like a number right, and we thought 584 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: he was Chinese, but he's not. He's dead. Bundy really 585 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: don't know what the whole sky diving thing was. Just yeah, Bundy, 586 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: like he unraveled. Man, He he killed people for years. 587 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: He's known for the University of Florida deal in the 588 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: sorority house. But that was like at the very end. 589 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: He had killed people for years and years and years, 590 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden just flipped and walked 591 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: into sorority house and started killing people. And then he 592 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: got pulled over for a traffic ticket. That's how they 593 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: called him. Yeah, how did they catch him? Like they 594 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 1: knew who they were looking for, you know, not exactly 595 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: like a sorority girl in the back or I don't know. 596 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: I think they had already had a profile or leads 597 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: or something at that point. They tripped him up and Berkowitz, 598 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 1: son of Sam, they caught like they actually apprehended him 599 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: and then let him go and he was gonna be 600 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: like a witness to one of the murders that he 601 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: committed with the cops. And then they were like, wait 602 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 1: a minute, you said that you were just talking to 603 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: your neighbor's dog exactly, and he was like, well yeah, 604 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: and they're like, okay, well he didn't talk back, man, 605 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 1: That's what I would have said, right, But he said, 606 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: oh yeah, and he talked back, and he told me 607 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,800 Speaker 1: to kill people, right or b t K. We talked 608 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 1: about the blind blind uh tap dance killer. Right. This 609 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:25,280 Speaker 1: guy is the saddest serial killer ever. He is terrible. 610 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,359 Speaker 1: He was terrible at he killed like three people over 611 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 1: the span of like twenty six years. And do you 612 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,319 Speaker 1: know how he got caught? Right? I saw? Um, I'm 613 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 1: sure it was on Discovery, our fine, fine parent corporation, right. Um. 614 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 1: They were they were interviewing like one of the investigators 615 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: who was working the b t K case and cracked it, 616 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: and he was taunting the police. But he wasn't a 617 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 1: really smart guy. So he sent a floppy disk um 618 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 1: to the cops, taunting them with a Microsoft word document 619 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 1: and didn't understand that there's this thing called metadata which 620 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: has all sorts of very um specific information about the 621 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,360 Speaker 1: computer that you used that on. And he used it 622 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: at the church that he was a deacon at, and 623 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 1: um they got him like a couple of days later. 624 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: But I remember one of the detectives going like, we 625 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: actually thought it was like somebody trying to frame somebody else, 626 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: Like I couldn't believe that somebody would be that sloppy 627 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: or that dumb. And sure enough he was, Yeah, and 628 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 1: he he wanted a position of authority do anything for us. 629 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 1: It was like dog Catcher for a while. Anything that 630 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 1: had a uniform, he would, Yeah, I should go ahead 631 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,839 Speaker 1: and point out before we get assaulted with listener mail. 632 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: I know he wasn't called the bind tap dance kill. 633 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:40,879 Speaker 1: That's an inside joke between us and a super fan 634 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: to figure that out. Bind, torture and kill. Um. The 635 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: one I was fascinated with was Peter Woodcock, Canadian serial killer. 636 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 1: You wouldn't think there's a lot of Canadian serial killers 637 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,240 Speaker 1: because Pickton was I think, in my opinion, the worst 638 00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 1: serial killer ever. Robert Pickton was Canadian, he was from Vancouver. 639 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 1: Was he angry that he was an American? Feed his 640 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:08,720 Speaker 1: victims to his pigs? Oh, that's right. He was angry 641 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: that I'm not America. I'm gonna kill everybody that's American. 642 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: We're just kidding, Canadians, we love you. But Peter Woodcock 643 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 1: was a Canadian and he spent thirty five years in 644 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: a psych hospital in Canada after he had killed three people. 645 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: He was what they thought was rehabilitated, which is the 646 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,359 Speaker 1: point of this is that you can't rehabilitate a serial killer. 647 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 1: Pretty much, they thought he was rehabilitated. They said, you 648 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 1: know what, We're gonna give you some leeway. We're gonna 649 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,239 Speaker 1: let you out on like some weekend passes. Now he 650 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: got his first weekend pass, uh and his supervisor for 651 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: the weekend pass was a former patient who was also 652 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 1: a former murderer. And within the first hour that they 653 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 1: let him off on as wee can pass, he and 654 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: that his his guy that was watching him killed a 655 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 1: dude with a hatchet and a knife. Within the first 656 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 1: hour of his first weekend pass, he and his chaperone 657 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,239 Speaker 1: killed another patient. So that's a that's a bad guy 658 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 1: that did not work out too well. So checking on 659 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 1: anybody else? Yeah, we're like, uh, coming up against it. 660 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 1: I have a big list, and to keep Josh from 661 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: eating it, I'll just go ahead and skip to the 662 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 1: front of it. To um. Harold Frederick fred Shipman is 663 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 1: supposedly the most prolific serial killer and known history, and 664 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: he is positively linked to two d and fifty murders. 665 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,879 Speaker 1: He was doctor Death. Do you ever hear that guy 666 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,840 Speaker 1: Dr Death? Yeah, he was a general practitioner and he 667 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 1: targeted his female patients. And this was like you know, 668 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:40,879 Speaker 1: two thousand four was when he hung himself in jail. 669 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,840 Speaker 1: So he's supposedly the most prolific of all time. What 670 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 1: about the Columbian guy, uh, Louis Alfredo Garbarrito Kubilos, otherwise 671 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 1: known as the Beast or Labista. He raped and murdered 672 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 1: a hundred and forty boys, but they suspect as many 673 00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: as three hundred and in Columbia you can only go 674 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 1: to jail for thirty years, but they reduced that to 675 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,319 Speaker 1: twenty two years. So he is out. He is out 676 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,880 Speaker 1: in his whereabouts I believe are unknown if I'm not mistaken, 677 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 1: so he is out. Yeah. And as Chuck said, I 678 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: can't care a serial killer, no, because they're not insane. Right. So, 679 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,360 Speaker 1: if you want to know more about serial killers, is 680 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 1: a pretty awesome article on the site called how serial 681 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 1: Killers Work. You can type that into the handy search 682 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,360 Speaker 1: part how stuff works dot com, which of course leads 683 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 1: us to listener mail hold on partner. We have a 684 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: little bit of admin work to get out of the 685 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 1: way about our New York trips. Some announcements. Okay, let 686 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:41,000 Speaker 1: me shiftle some papers here. Uh, well, T shirts first, 687 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,239 Speaker 1: let's go T shirts. The T shirt contest is on 688 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 1: in in for real son and and it's uh the 689 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 1: end of May is um at midnight is the deadline, 690 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 1: So get your submissions in. If you submitted, re submit 691 00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,719 Speaker 1: within the window. If you're not American, I'm really sorry. 692 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 1: But are we excluding Yeah? You have to really yeah? 693 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,400 Speaker 1: So wait, Canadians can't know. Man, it stinks. But like 694 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,239 Speaker 1: I told everyone that wrote in, I can't win a 695 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:14,439 Speaker 1: contest in England either. Every country has their own rules 696 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 1: and you gotta be a citizen of this country. Wow, yeah, 697 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 1: I had no idea. That's just the way it's gotta 698 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 1: be here, to go back and read the fine print, 699 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,120 Speaker 1: I know. Huh okay, well, yes, sorry to everybody who 700 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,239 Speaker 1: lives outside the US. I know it's a bummer, but 701 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 1: that's just another reason it sucks to be you. It's 702 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: not our rules, yes, no, no, we would never come 703 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,799 Speaker 1: up with something the rules of the world. It's the 704 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 1: planet rules of the United States apparently. Yes. So New York, Josh, Yeah, 705 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,759 Speaker 1: we are coming to New York and we have two 706 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 1: events pending, one for sure and one tbd uh Monday night, 707 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 1: June seven, we will be at the Knitting Factory and 708 00:39:54,920 --> 00:40:00,479 Speaker 1: Scenic Brooklyn, New York, super hipster Central Brooklyn. I don't 709 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 1: know that I'm going to be able to cut skinny 710 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 1: jeans for both of us. Um. Yes, skinny jeans and 711 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,799 Speaker 1: the eyot Oxford don't really go unless it's like three 712 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,400 Speaker 1: sizes too small, and it kind of is. Yeah. So uh, 713 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,520 Speaker 1: we're gonna be doing a little happy hour get together 714 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,880 Speaker 1: from five thirty to seven thirty. There will be a 715 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,319 Speaker 1: concert to follow that actually costs money if you want 716 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:23,919 Speaker 1: to get into that. It's like twelve bucks. I think 717 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,759 Speaker 1: and The Onion is sponsoring that, and there will be 718 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:29,440 Speaker 1: folks from The Onion hanging out with us too, so 719 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 1: you can meet them, yeah, which will be super cool. 720 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 1: Looking forward to meeting them in person. Yeah, So be there, 721 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:38,520 Speaker 1: be square. And then Wednesday night, June night, we are 722 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,280 Speaker 1: gonna do an all star trivia challenge and we're rounding 723 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,439 Speaker 1: out our all star trivia team that Josh and are 724 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 1: on and it's pretty exciting special mystery guests. Yes, well, 725 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,839 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. Let's confirm one person, Um, the 726 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,279 Speaker 1: editor in chief of the Onion newspaper is on our team. 727 00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,719 Speaker 1: Joan Does is one of our buddies now and um 728 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,560 Speaker 1: the other well, we don't want to announce just yet 729 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 1: because I hate to say that. You know Mr t 730 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:05,080 Speaker 1: is gonna be there. If he's not gonna be there, 731 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,279 Speaker 1: I can't believe he just gave it away. So that 732 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 1: is gonna be you come you challenge us for bragging 733 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,880 Speaker 1: rights at trivia. Uh, and it's gonna be a lot 734 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,440 Speaker 1: of fun at Bar Trivia and Location tv D. But 735 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,880 Speaker 1: that'll be Wednesday ju Night and co Ed Yes the 736 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:25,359 Speaker 1: beans Josh okay. So um, if you have heard our 737 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,959 Speaker 1: two part Guatemala series you're familiar with co ed if 738 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 1: not UM, they are a great organization that creates um 739 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:39,719 Speaker 1: self sustaining textbook and computer centers, right, um. And you 740 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,960 Speaker 1: can actually support these guys with a five dollar donation 741 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,800 Speaker 1: by texting the words stuff as to U F F 742 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 1: two two zero to two two. You'll get a text 743 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,919 Speaker 1: back saying you sure you're sure about this? And all 744 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,719 Speaker 1: you do is text yes, and it'll charge you five bucks. 745 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:02,760 Speaker 1: And what'd you say? Off? Mike? Some what applies? Text 746 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: and data rates may apply and uh if it's actually 747 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 1: all these this is another thing only for Americans because 748 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 1: it's different cell companies in different countries. So if you 749 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,280 Speaker 1: want to give and you live outside the Union United States, 750 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,560 Speaker 1: you can go to UH co ed you see dot 751 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:21,680 Speaker 1: org then may have a place where you can donate 752 00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:26,040 Speaker 1: there wherever you live, even if you live on Mars Mars. Well, 753 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:34,799 Speaker 1: all right, it's listener male Ton. Huh. Indeed, Josh, we're 754 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,920 Speaker 1: short on time. I'm gonna call this top ten reasons 755 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,000 Speaker 1: to hate stuff. You should know that's good, um. Number 756 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:43,880 Speaker 1: one reason to hate us Josh and Chuck frequently but 757 00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,279 Speaker 1: your names and words during the podcast and misuse I 758 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,800 Speaker 1: and me in a gross perversion of the English language. 759 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,880 Speaker 1: Check Number two. We cause ordinary people to become inebriated 760 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:56,120 Speaker 1: while listening by saying a few key words. Number three. 761 00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,040 Speaker 1: It is not released frequently enough and causes addicted listeners 762 00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:03,160 Speaker 1: to moan in pain between Tuesday and Thursday. Number four 763 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,760 Speaker 1: catchy theme music easily gets stuck in listeners heads. Number 764 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,120 Speaker 1: five Chuck and Josh swear in the podcast, and the 765 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,720 Speaker 1: beats can cause hearing damage. Number six. Jerry is seldom mentioned, 766 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,360 Speaker 1: not true, and has never been heard live on the air, 767 00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,759 Speaker 1: and some fans postulate the Chuck and Josh keeper locked 768 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 1: in a closet between podcasts. Number seven uh, Stuff you 769 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,240 Speaker 1: Should Know instructs on a wide variety of illegal topics, 770 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:26,400 Speaker 1: including nuclear weapons, money laung ring, and the pompst the schemes. 771 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:30,600 Speaker 1: Number eight Chuck and Josh use horrible plug similes. True. 772 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,680 Speaker 1: Number nine the disillusion listeners by stating that they record 773 00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,160 Speaker 1: to every Friday when it's common knowledge that they record 774 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 1: every Tuesday and Thursday instead. Uh not true. And number ten. 775 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,440 Speaker 1: In addition to possibly keeping Jerry locked in the closet, 776 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,319 Speaker 1: we also torture her by going off on long winded introductions. 777 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,360 Speaker 1: True it's a bad one to put on the d 778 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:54,080 Speaker 1: and at times getting completely off topic. Way way true. 779 00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:58,640 Speaker 1: Always a huge fan. Noah, Thanks Noah, We appreciate that. 780 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,399 Speaker 1: Top ten. Let's let's an be awesome listener mail I agreed. Yeah, 781 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,200 Speaker 1: if you have awesome listener mail force, we want to 782 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,560 Speaker 1: read it. And if you have any crazy serial killer 783 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:14,080 Speaker 1: stories grizzly or otherwise, how about those? Want those? Yeah, 784 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,600 Speaker 1: if you've got some firsthand experience obviously not if you're 785 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,240 Speaker 1: not a serial killer, but if you know of someone 786 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,040 Speaker 1: who was, or like any cool link. If you have 787 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,040 Speaker 1: something to say about serial killers, put it in an email, 788 00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,759 Speaker 1: send it to stuff podcast at how stuff works dot 789 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:36,680 Speaker 1: com For more on this and thousands of other topics. 790 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,759 Speaker 1: Is it how stuff works dot com. Want more how 791 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,479 Speaker 1: stuff works, check out our blogs on the house. Stuff 792 00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:47,360 Speaker 1: works dot com home page. Brought to you by the 793 00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,719 Speaker 1: reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you