Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us
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Speaker 2: And Welcome to the Thursday edition of Bloomberg Sound On.
Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. Welcome to Little Friday. The
Speaker 2: headline says it all as usual on the terminal Biden
Speaker 2: she meeting, delivers small wins and promises of better ties. This,
Speaker 2: of course, coming off the big meat yesterday. We talked
Speaker 2: about it here on sound On. We brought you the
Speaker 2: president's news conference last evening. We were up late last night,
Speaker 2: weren't we. I'm glad that you were with us here
Speaker 2: because we walked through this whole exercise of the deliverables,
Speaker 2: what was accomplished, and at the very end of that,
Speaker 2: it always happens in the last question at these news conferences.
Speaker 2: Maybe you heard this already, Joe Biden being asked at
Speaker 2: the very end of his news conference, just as he's
Speaker 2: walking out.
Speaker 1: Of the room.
Speaker 3: Listen today, she's still before its press.
Speaker 4: The assidates years to form any news earlier this year.
Speaker 5: Well, look he is I mean, he's a dictator in
Speaker 5: the sense that he is a guy who runs the
Speaker 5: country that is.
Speaker 2: Based on the sum of government totally different than ours.
Speaker 2: Let's get into it for a minute with Ian Marlow Bloomberg,
Speaker 2: senior reporter with us at the table here in Washington, meaning,
Speaker 2: great to see you, Thanks for coming back on here.
Speaker 2: I remember the last time the president used that word.
Speaker 2: This is why everyone stopped down, because it caused problems.
Speaker 2: President she doesn't like to be referred to as a dictator,
Speaker 2: even if it does meet the definition in the dictionary.
Speaker 2: Was that a calculated statement?
Speaker 5: I don't.
Speaker 6: I mean, it's hard to tell with with with Biden,
Speaker 6: some of the some of the gaffes that come out,
Speaker 6: but this it was a firm reminder that despite the agreements,
Speaker 6: despite the sort of general bonomis that you saw, these
Speaker 6: are still competitive rivals the US in China. There's no
Speaker 6: change there. These agreements were were interesting, and we can
Speaker 6: talk about that, but sort of surface level things that
Speaker 6: do nothing to really change the sort of worsening geopolitical
Speaker 6: rivalry that you have between the US and China. And
Speaker 6: his remark is a sort of stark reminder of that
Speaker 6: it's also a stark reminder of the domestic pressure that
Speaker 6: he feels when it comes to the China relationships.
Speaker 2: Well, that's where this was being aimed obviously, right, and
Speaker 2: President she had his own version of that if you
Speaker 2: read the readout that came from Beijing kind of scolding
Speaker 2: the US for Taiwan among other things. But let's talk
Speaker 2: about what was constructive here when it comes to counter narcotics,
Speaker 2: when it comes to military to military operations, the fact
Speaker 2: that they were even in the same room, all of
Speaker 2: those are kind of a big deal, are they not.
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's been a really intensive, sort of six month process,
Speaker 6: starting with Secretary of State Anthony Blinkn's trip to Beijing
Speaker 6: back in June, which sort of unlocked all these cabinet
Speaker 6: level visits where clearly it seems they were saving up
Speaker 6: some of the big deliverables for the big you know,
Speaker 6: the meeting of the bosses to some extent, and what
Speaker 6: we saw was actually pretty interesting. I mean, on the
Speaker 6: domestic front, fentanyl and the opioid crisis in the US
Speaker 6: is a huge issue for Biden in this administration. Blinken
Speaker 6: has made it a huge point of contact with his
Speaker 6: Chinese counterparts, and on the other side, the restoring military
Speaker 6: to military communications. This was something that actually, I don't
Speaker 6: think many people up until the last week when things
Speaker 6: started trickling out, that many people expected. I think a
Speaker 6: lot of people thought China did not want to play
Speaker 6: ball on having the militaries work more closely together, because
Speaker 6: that means it would give the US confidence to sort
Speaker 6: of come into Asia with their military even more than
Speaker 6: they are already and just make sure that they can
Speaker 6: do it without causing a conflict. So it wasn't something
Speaker 6: that seemed to be in China's interest to do it.
Speaker 6: So both of these developments are actually fairly interesting when
Speaker 6: it comes to that fascinating.
Speaker 2: We appreciate your perspective very much. Ian. Let's get you
Speaker 2: in here a lot more often. Ian Marlow find his
Speaker 2: work on the Terminal and at Bloomberg dot Com. Appreciate
Speaker 2: the reporting and the perspective. As we add the wressman
Speaker 2: to the conversation, Jake Auchincloss joins now the Democrat from Massachusetts,
Speaker 2: who of course brings a unique view to what we're
Speaker 2: talking about here as a member of the China Select Committee.
Speaker 2: And we'll get to some other issues here as well.
Speaker 2: Congressman that I know that you'll probably want to talk
Speaker 2: about here, but I wonder your thoughts having seen the
Speaker 2: president across the country and actually sit down with the
Speaker 2: leader of the world's second largest economy. Let's start with
Speaker 2: military to military communications. Will that prevent more close calls?
Speaker 2: For instance, in the South China Sea. How much progress
Speaker 2: did you see yesterday?
Speaker 4: It's progress. Whether it prevents close calls is up to
Speaker 4: the People's Liberation Army. They're the ones who have been
Speaker 4: aggressive unprofessional in their behavior in the South China Sea
Speaker 4: and the Taiwan Straight What it can definitely help prevent, though,
Speaker 4: is those close calls accidentally escalating into a shooting match.
Speaker 5: Neither side wants war.
Speaker 4: We need to reduce the chances for conflict, particularly inadvertent conflict,
Speaker 4: and having mill to mill ties not just at the
Speaker 4: political leadership level, but really at the field grade and
Speaker 4: general grade levels can reduce misunderstandings and allow these situations
Speaker 4: to be diffused. That's just good global governance for both sets.
Speaker 2: Counter narcotics also on the agenda, I know that your
Speaker 2: state of Massachusetts, my former home, is no stranger to
Speaker 2: the impact of fentanyl. That is getting very good reviews
Speaker 2: here in an agreement to continue talks over the climate Congressman,
Speaker 2: should there have been more progress when it comes to
Speaker 2: climate or is that just a bridge too far in
Speaker 2: the first meeting in so long.
Speaker 4: Well, China has recognized that reducing carbon emissions is in
Speaker 4: its own interests and has committed to taking bolder and
Speaker 4: more aggressive action. There's no doubt though, that the bigger
Speaker 4: near term win was the fentanyl accord. Now, I don't
Speaker 4: trust China on this issue. They have previously made commitments
Speaker 4: that they have not followed through on. But I'm somebody
Speaker 4: who commands a special operations mission to Panama working with
Speaker 4: other countries to help with drug intradiction. I have seen
Speaker 4: firsthand the importance of having international assistance and combating drug trade,
Speaker 4: and it is critical that China cracks down on the
Speaker 4: export of basic ingredients for fentanyl production by the Mexican
Speaker 4: drug cartels. So even if they are only incremental or
Speaker 4: haphazard in their implementation of this agreement, it will still
Speaker 4: help stem the inflow of opioids and will save American lives.
Speaker 4: This is a win for the President.
Speaker 2: I've got to ask you about the dictator remark before
Speaker 2: I move on because I'm guessing that there were on
Speaker 2: a lot of members, maybe including yourself, on the China
Speaker 2: Select Committee, who wanted to hear some language like that.
Speaker 2: Obviously we need to work together to some point, but
Speaker 2: we also want to keep a hard line when it
Speaker 2: comes to China. Was that a helpful remark or not.
Speaker 4: It's a valid remark. Xijinging is a dictator. He is
Speaker 4: turning his country towards totalitarianism. He views individuals as ponds
Speaker 4: of the state. The United States recognizes the inherent value
Speaker 4: and dignity of individuals, not just in America, but in
Speaker 4: Ukraine and in Taiwan and in Israel, and we will
Speaker 4: defend democracy at home and abroad. There are clear divides
Speaker 4: over values that we will contest in the twenty first century.
Speaker 4: So while we want to be smart in our competition
Speaker 4: with China, and we want to find those military to
Speaker 4: military de escalation points, we want to find those accords
Speaker 4: on fentanyl, on public health, on climate, We're going to
Speaker 4: be strong too. We're going to be strong too. We're
Speaker 4: going to be strong in our military posture in the
Speaker 4: Indo Pacific. We're going to be strong in our diplomatic
Speaker 4: posture with South Korea and Japan and the Philippines in Australia,
Speaker 4: and we're going to be strong in articulating and defending
Speaker 4: our values.
Speaker 2: Spending time with Congressman Auckin Closs here on Bloomberg sound On,
Speaker 2: just a day after the Senate voted to pass the
Speaker 2: stopgap measure, the Continuing Resolution that passed the House of
Speaker 2: Representatives without your support. Congressman, I know that you had
Speaker 2: a lot of concerns about the process looking for funding
Speaker 2: for Israel and Ukraine as well. What actually made you vote?
Speaker 4: Know, in Washington, a member is only as good as
Speaker 4: his word. When I last voted to bail out the
Speaker 4: GOP from their dysfunction in September by voting yes on
Speaker 4: their Continuing Resolution, I said it was the last time
Speaker 4: until I saw clear, concrete, incredible plans to support Ukraine,
Speaker 4: and in the interim Israel has come under attacks. So
Speaker 4: now we have to support Ukraine and Israel, both of
Speaker 4: whom are fighting on the frontlines of the free world
Speaker 4: against tyranny and against terror. And the GOP instead of
Speaker 4: putting forward robust funding to defend democracy, instead of just
Speaker 4: careening from crisis to crisis, so I could not put
Speaker 4: my vote towards this stop gap short term spending measure
Speaker 4: that fails to meet the moment, and the onus now
Speaker 4: is on the House Republican Conference and the Senate Republican
Speaker 4: Conference to negotiate in good faith on border security policy,
Speaker 4: on Ukraine AID so that we can unlock a bipartisan
Speaker 4: and in Greece to get the whole package passed before
Speaker 4: the holidays, not just Israel, but Taiwan, Ukraine border security.
Speaker 2: Altogether before the holidays is an important part of that statement, Congressman,
Speaker 2: that would be quite a maneuver. It might set a
Speaker 2: land speed record in the I believe twenty legislative days
Speaker 2: that we have left here between now and a potential
Speaker 2: government shut down in January. You think that'll be handled
Speaker 2: before the government is funded for the next fiscal year.
Speaker 2: Though we don't have to wait months and months to
Speaker 2: hear about Israel and Ukraine.
Speaker 4: It should be Nobody should be breaking for the holidays
Speaker 4: until our allies have the materiel and humanitarian support necessary
Speaker 4: to continue defending their democracies. And it's doable. The Senate
Speaker 4: is passing paper back and forth right now. We understand
Speaker 4: what the unlock would be, and that is negotiations on
Speaker 4: border security policy. I have been early and strong in
Speaker 4: support of those negotiations. I understand that some Democrats are
Speaker 4: calcentrant on seeding anything on border security policy changes.
Speaker 5: I see it differently.
Speaker 4: I think that we really should be looking to upgrade
Speaker 4: and improve border security because it's not secure right now.
Speaker 4: Despite the President's best efforts, despite his actions within the
Speaker 4: bounds of law and humanity, the border is seeing crossings
Speaker 4: that far outpace the infrastructure it has to handle them.
Speaker 4: And we do need more funding. We do need to
Speaker 4: make changes there. It's going to be a compromise, but
Speaker 4: that's the point of Congress is to craft governance that
Speaker 4: gets to eighty percent answers.
Speaker 2: You're here from your lips to God's ears when it
Speaker 2: comes to a number of these issues and the potential
Speaker 2: for Democrats and Republicans to work together in this new
Speaker 2: structure here. Congressman, you're a combat veteran. You know what
Speaker 2: it's like to walk with a rifle in your hand
Speaker 2: and lead an infantry division. Obviously, your experience in Afghanistan
Speaker 2: and you just mentioned Panama speaks to that. And I
Speaker 2: wonder if you could shed light on what's happening now
Speaker 2: in Gaza. We've been hearing from the administration a message
Speaker 2: of restraint, of very deep concern about civilian lives, but
Speaker 2: also an Israeli army, the individual soldiers who are in
Speaker 2: great danger walking into Gaza city. What's your thought.
Speaker 4: Military operations on urban terrain are the most challenging of
Speaker 4: any format to execute. And now the IDF is not
Speaker 4: just going door to door, it's literally going room to room,
Speaker 4: and it's going room to room having to discern between
Speaker 4: non combatants and combatants because Hamas uses Palestinian denizens as
Speaker 4: human shields. Hamas is holding hostages in underground tunnels. Hamas
Speaker 4: is storing munitions and command and control centers threaded through
Speaker 4: civilian infrastructure like hospitals and schools. So the IDF has
Speaker 4: a daunting task before it. It needs to hold itself
Speaker 4: to the law of arm conflict, which requires distinction and
Speaker 4: necessity and proportionality. It also needs to aggressively execute its priorities,
Speaker 4: which are number one, rescuing those hostages. Number two destroying Hamas.
Speaker 4: Destroying Hamas, no cease fire, no truce with terrorists. Hamas
Speaker 4: needs to be dismantled. And then number three is helping
Speaker 4: to architect just post war governance for Gaza, and I'm
Speaker 4: going to continue to be strongly in support of our
Speaker 4: ally as they defend the Jewish homeland and their citizens.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, we've got a fascinating story from our
Speaker 2: Pentagon reporter, Congressman that the Defense Department is already ramping
Speaker 2: up military aid to Israel beyond what we've heard about
Speaker 2: in terms of the Iron Dome and the smart bombs
Speaker 2: from Boeing, but in fact, more laser guided missiles for
Speaker 2: Apache gunships, one hundred and fifty five millimeters shells, night
Speaker 2: vision devices, bunker buster munitions, even the new vs hum
Speaker 2: v's rather and Switchblade drones. Outside of all of this,
Speaker 2: does Israel need more than that? What would the supplemental
Speaker 2: bring that it's not already getting.
Speaker 4: I can't speak to the tactical needs of Israel. I'm
Speaker 4: just not close enough to their operations. I have great
Speaker 4: confidence in the Pentagon, based on my briefings with them,
Speaker 4: that they are doing hourly assessments and close collaboration with
Speaker 4: the IDF based on long standing relationships of trust to
Speaker 4: discern what IDF needs, and so part of this is
Speaker 4: going to be sending aid ammunitions to the IDEF and
Speaker 4: part of it's going to be backfilling our own supplies
Speaker 4: to ensure that we are ready come what may, because
Speaker 4: as we see when the President had to deploy two
Speaker 4: carrier strike group to the Eastern Mediterranean, the nine to
Speaker 4: one one calls can come any hour of the day,
Speaker 4: and the United States needs to be ready to defend
Speaker 4: the global order.
Speaker 2: Well, you know what that's like firsthand. And I have
Speaker 2: to ask you before you leave about Ukraine, because some
Speaker 2: would argue that the needs are in fact more desperate
Speaker 2: in Ukraine and if we roll into next year, their
Speaker 2: efforts to defend themselves could in fact be interrupted by
Speaker 2: a lack of funding. Is that how you see it?
Speaker 4: The window of opportunity is closing. I don't want to
Speaker 4: put a date on it, but there's no doubt that
Speaker 4: the window of opportunity heading into an election years, the
Speaker 4: Republican Conference is increasingly subservient to the isolationism and fifth
Speaker 4: columnism of Tucker Carlson and Donald Trump. That we are
Speaker 4: losing the political capital and Congress to fund our ally
Speaker 4: and it's unacceptable. They are fighting on the front lines
Speaker 4: of the free world right now for about ten percent
Speaker 4: of the Pentagon's annual budget. We have cratered half of
Speaker 4: Russia's conventional military capacity.
Speaker 5: We have doubled NATO's border.
Speaker 4: We've induced greater defense spending from our allies in Europe
Speaker 4: and the Indo Pacific. This has been a tremendous return
Speaker 4: on investment for national security dollars, and it has signaled
Speaker 4: not just to Vladimir Putin, but also do zijingping that
Speaker 4: America is always going to stand with right over might,
Speaker 4: and that message resonates. I assure you that they are
Speaker 4: watching closely congressional actions on Ukraine in Beijing as well
Speaker 4: as in the Kremlin.
Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on pun Cast. Catch
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Speaker 2: With all the gyrations and chaos we've seen in the
Speaker 2: House of Representatives the past couple of weeks, I've been
Speaker 2: known to say, look no further than the Chair of
Speaker 2: the Admin Committee if you want stability. His name is
Speaker 2: Brian Style. The congressman from Wisconsin joins us right now,
Speaker 2: and it's good to see you. Congressman. You've been a
Speaker 2: reliable voice through this whole thing from your perch, not
Speaker 2: only as head of the Admin Committee, by the way,
Speaker 2: google it, you'll see how important that is, but also
Speaker 2: your service on the Financial Services Committee, the fact that
Speaker 2: you helped to tally the votes for our new speaker.
Speaker 2: I remember seeing you in the Speaker's rostrum on those
Speaker 2: important days. I wonder your thoughts today as your colleagues
Speaker 2: head home for the holidays. The government's not going to
Speaker 2: shut down. Was this an important week in getting your
Speaker 2: conference together?
Speaker 7: Well, another frustrating week, I think is to where we
Speaker 7: are in the House of Representatives in Congress writ large.
Speaker 7: The good news is is we were successful in keeping
Speaker 7: the government funded, open and operational. We could have seen
Speaker 7: another shutdown that doesn't actually help anybody, and at the
Speaker 7: end of the day, we actually spend more money to
Speaker 7: shut the federal government down than we do to keep
Speaker 7: it open.
Speaker 5: And so it's been challenging times.
Speaker 7: But the good news is maybe this Thanksgiving week ahead
Speaker 7: will give everybody a time to kind of calm down,
Speaker 7: and cooler heads will prevail because there's huge challenges facing
Speaker 7: us when Washington gets back to work.
Speaker 2: Well, there sure are, and I don't have to tell
Speaker 2: you what everyone's saying. We just prolong the inevitable. We're
Speaker 2: going to shut down again in January. Are you worried
Speaker 2: that there's not enough time with this continuing resolution to
Speaker 2: figure all this out?
Speaker 7: Well, I think there is sufficient time, But I think
Speaker 7: people have to come to the table and have an
Speaker 7: adult conversation and figure out how we're going to navigate this.
Speaker 7: And so the federal spending process has been broken for
Speaker 7: a long time on Capitol Hill, or trying to follow
Speaker 7: what we call regular order, which simply means following a
Speaker 7: law those passing nineteen seventy four that hasn't worked terribly well.
Speaker 7: What we need to do is get a little bit
Speaker 7: more serious here in Washington about what programs we can
Speaker 7: actually afford to fund in which ones we can't. But
Speaker 7: also a broader conversation that's seventy five percent of all
Speaker 7: federal government spending is on autopilot. We're only having this
Speaker 7: part of the debate a federal government spending on twenty
Speaker 7: five percent of the total federal budget.
Speaker 3: No business would operate this way.
Speaker 7: And it adds a unique challenge here on Capitol Hill.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm hearing more and more and more people
Speaker 2: talk about that, but when you talk to anyone running
Speaker 2: for president, they won't touch it. The Speaker might not
Speaker 2: be ready to touch that either. The last one certainly
Speaker 2: was not swearing off Medicare and Social Security and talk
Speaker 2: about prolonging the inevitable. At some point, we're going to
Speaker 2: have to get to this, Congressman, and if it were
Speaker 2: up to you, would it be part of this process
Speaker 2: starting next year? How long do we have to manage
Speaker 2: this well?
Speaker 7: I do think Speaker Mike Johnson actually hit the nail
Speaker 7: on the head and was willing to bring it up.
Speaker 7: In his first speech as he became Speaker of the House,
Speaker 7: he discussed the importance of having a debt commission, bringing
Speaker 7: Democrats and Republicans together to say we need to get
Speaker 7: serious about the fiscal challenges that we're facing. And I
Speaker 7: think the debt commission model actually works quite well, but
Speaker 7: it does take the political heft of everyone coming to
Speaker 7: the table to say we're actually going to get this done.
Speaker 7: What's the biggest driver of that. I think it's the
Speaker 7: rising interest costs on the debt, the carry costs if
Speaker 7: you're in the financial markets becoming more and more serious.
Speaker 7: Is we see interest payments on the debt approaching a
Speaker 7: trillion dollars.
Speaker 2: I know you don't want to have this conversation, but
Speaker 2: there are two sides to this. You can cut spending
Speaker 2: or you can raise revenues. Does the Ways and Means
Speaker 2: Committee play a role here?
Speaker 7: An absolutely critical role at Ways and Means. I wouldn't
Speaker 7: lose sight though, of the fact that economic growth is
Speaker 7: going to be a key driver. So if we look
Speaker 7: back coming into the pandemic, what we actually saw was
Speaker 7: economic growth driving tax tax revenue high, not by raising
Speaker 7: rates in taxes, but rather by growing the economy. That
Speaker 7: is our best path forward to grow ourselves out of this.
Speaker 7: That alone isn't going to solve all the problems, but
Speaker 7: it's got to be part of the conversation.
Speaker 2: But don't make it a lot easier. Were you a
Speaker 2: fan of this idea of the laddered cr the fact
Speaker 2: that we're looking at two dates. I've asked so many
Speaker 2: people this Congressman, what the benefit is where that or
Speaker 2: how that advantages the speaker or the Republican Conference or
Speaker 2: maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way.
Speaker 7: I don't think it's a massively significant difference. It maybe
Speaker 7: does give us an opportunity to break these apart and say,
Speaker 7: let's start getting some of the twelve spending bills across
Speaker 7: the line. Everyone that we get done is a step
Speaker 7: in the right direction. I would say the biggest win
Speaker 7: on this stopgap measures that avoids a Christmas Eve spending
Speaker 7: bill going through where every ornament is on the Christmas tree.
Speaker 2: That's right. Well, you know that there's some big ornaments
Speaker 2: out there. I actually really probably shouldn't call them that
Speaker 2: because they're off the serious and I'm referring to the
Speaker 2: supplemental record. We talked about it earlier this hour with
Speaker 2: your colleague Jake Auchincloss from Massachusetts, Israel, Ukraine, Taiwan, and border.
Speaker 2: You're probably getting tired of hearing guys like me rattle
Speaker 2: this off. But I wonder if there will be an
Speaker 2: opportunity to pass these in one block, or if the
Speaker 2: Speaker has the right approach here Congressmen and vote on
Speaker 2: each of them individually.
Speaker 7: I think we're best served if we break them apart.
Speaker 7: I think we have a true opportunity to get the
Speaker 7: Israel funding through to make sure that we're providing the
Speaker 7: resources Israel needs as it defends itself against the terrorist
Speaker 7: attacks that occurred from Hamas. I think as we look
Speaker 7: to the Ukraine funding, it's more likely that that it's
Speaker 7: the end of the day, gets combined with true border security.
Speaker 7: Make sure that we secure the US Mexico border is
Speaker 7: of absolute paramount importance, and I think as we look
Speaker 7: at that opportunity, we may see that ultimately paired with
Speaker 7: the Ukraine funding, is a mechanism of forcing the Bite
Speaker 7: administration to truly change course on its border policies.
Speaker 2: I almost wish we could have you on together because
Speaker 2: Jake Auchincloss, who is an ally of this White House
Speaker 2: from big blue Massachusetts, is very open to having that conversation.
Speaker 2: He told us on the air that Democrats need to
Speaker 2: come to the table on border security. It's about time,
Speaker 2: he said. The crossings are simply too high. So if
Speaker 2: you were sitting here now, where would just start. We
Speaker 2: hear from a lot of Republicans Congress and they say
Speaker 2: the border's open. Obviously that's not literal, but how would
Speaker 2: you start to lower the flow of illegal immigrants crossing
Speaker 2: the border?
Speaker 5: Jake's a friend of mine.
Speaker 7: We actually discussed this on the House floor last week,
Speaker 7: so it's funny you bring it up. I think there's
Speaker 7: some pretty straight I think there's some pretty straightforward policies
Speaker 7: that we could move forward on, in particular, a stay
Speaker 7: in Mexico policy, which tells people who want to apply
Speaker 7: for asylum that it's better and safer to remain in
Speaker 7: your home country when that application process goes through. What
Speaker 7: we do know is the overwhelming majority of individuals who
Speaker 7: have a claim for asylum, when those claims are finally
Speaker 7: a mudicated, they're found out to not be with merit.
Speaker 7: The challenges those claims are often not heard for three
Speaker 7: to four years, So a stay in Mexico policy is
Speaker 7: actually the right policy. That's the Trump Aero policy. The
Speaker 7: other piece of this is critical funding for border security.
Speaker 7: The border patrol agents are currently understaffed, they're underfunded, and
Speaker 7: we need to get serious in those regards. And the
Speaker 7: third piece that I think should have some people being
Speaker 7: willing to come together is to say we need more
Speaker 7: judges to adjudicate the cases that are already here and
Speaker 7: in the pipeline.
Speaker 3: People deserve their day.
Speaker 7: Of course, they truly do have an asylum claim, there
Speaker 7: is a path for that, but again, the overwhelming majority
Speaker 7: of individuals crossing illegally don't actually have a claim that
Speaker 7: is validated when it's actually adjudicated on the merits.
Speaker 2: So we've made some important distinctions here, and I would
Speaker 2: love to have you and Congressman Ackenclass join at some
Speaker 2: point here on Bloomberg to talk this out. Maybe we'll
Speaker 2: move the needle on it a little bit. And I
Speaker 2: just wonder if there's a point in making the difference
Speaker 2: here distinguishing between border siksecurity and immigration policy, because this
Speaker 2: is obviously an incredibly tight labor market in this country,
Speaker 2: and we need immigrants from other countries, in many cases
Speaker 2: very smart people to help us in the high tech space,
Speaker 2: in other cases with manual labor that we can't get
Speaker 2: other people to do. Is that not part of this
Speaker 2: debate or should it be?
Speaker 7: It's got to be part of the conversation because we
Speaker 7: have both a broken legal immigration system as well as
Speaker 7: a broken illegal immigration system. The challenge is that under
Speaker 7: the past two and a half years under the Biden administration,
Speaker 7: the broken illegal immigration system has gotten so bad that
Speaker 7: we need to address that before we can really have
Speaker 7: the conversation that is needed about fixing the broken legal
Speaker 7: immigration system. And in many ways, as we look at
Speaker 7: what's playing out right now, our current asylum laws are
Speaker 7: being abused by individuals to the benefit of illegal immigration.
Speaker 7: In many ways, the Mexican drug cartels that are now
Speaker 7: making money trafficking individuals in the United States of America,
Speaker 7: and so breaking that system of the illegal imigranation side
Speaker 7: is going to be absolutely essential before we can really
Speaker 7: get the political half to the work done to address
Speaker 7: the broken legal immigration system.
Speaker 2: Well, we definitely covered some important ground there, and the
Speaker 2: fact of the matter is you can't get anything done
Speaker 2: without a convincing majority here, or at least it's a
Speaker 2: lot more difficult. And the Speaker Johnson mentioned recently in
Speaker 2: an interview on Fox that it might actually happen that
Speaker 2: you lose a member, that you lose a seat in
Speaker 2: an already thin majority, And I wonder if you're worried
Speaker 2: that that might be George Santas of New York we
Speaker 2: heard from the Ethics Committee today. I'm sure it's not
Speaker 2: a fun thing to talk about, Congressman, but there seems
Speaker 2: to be another effort to expel the gentleman from New York,
Speaker 2: You think that's going to happen.
Speaker 7: The Ethics Committee came out just a couple hours ago
Speaker 7: with their findings of fact. I think I owe it
Speaker 7: to the Ethics Committee and to the constituents in New
Speaker 7: York a full review of that report. But I can
Speaker 7: tell you the top line is incredibly concerning. The all
Speaker 7: submit a punishment that could be handed out as expulsion,
Speaker 7: and I'm going to review the report before finalizing that decision,
Speaker 7: but I can tell you the illegal actions that are
Speaker 7: set forward in this report are incredibly concerning.
Speaker 2: Are you, colleagues, is he part of the conference? Do
Speaker 2: you guys see each other at meetings? Or is he
Speaker 2: in his office with the door closed. That's been the
Speaker 2: experience for reporters.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 7: I don't have a deep relationship with him, and obviously
Speaker 7: he's occasionally on the House floor when we have votes,
Speaker 7: as are all four.
Speaker 3: Hundred and thirty five members.
Speaker 7: But again, I think people are going to review this
Speaker 7: on the merits, on the facts, and I think that's
Speaker 7: what we owe it to the American people, but in
Speaker 7: particular his constituents.
Speaker 3: If the final decision is to expel him from Congress.
Speaker 2: Understood, when you come back to town, assuming you're going
Speaker 2: to get back to Wisconsin at some point, Congressman, what's
Speaker 2: the first order of business you're going to have roughly
Speaker 2: twenty legislative days when you come back to the potential
Speaker 2: shutdown to the time this cr expires. How do you
Speaker 2: start by getting your arms around it?
Speaker 7: As we look out coming back from Thanksgiving and Congress
Speaker 7: getting back to work, getting our funding bills, which are
Speaker 7: already behind the deadline. Getting those done is going to
Speaker 7: be absolutely essential. We've got to do that. At the
Speaker 7: same time is looking at the US national security situation.
Speaker 7: Particulars are relates to both Israel and Ukraine and US
Speaker 7: Mexico border policy. All of that has to be accomplished
Speaker 7: before the end of the year to be successful. It's
Speaker 7: a lot on our plate, but getting the stopgap measure
Speaker 7: through this week, I think really improves our opportunity to
Speaker 7: be able to spend the time and attention as needed
Speaker 7: to address those when we come.
Speaker 2: Back, well, I hope that it's a very happy and
Speaker 2: healthy Thanksgiving for you and your family in the first
Speaker 2: District of Wisconsin. Congressman, I hope you get home soon enough.
Speaker 2: Same goes for your staff thanks for being here for
Speaker 2: us to answer not only the easy ones, but the
Speaker 2: tough ones. Sometimes. It's good to see you, Brian Style
Speaker 2: with us the Congressman here on Bloomberg. Sound on It.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the
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Speaker 2: Two years ago yesterday, I want you to just dial
Speaker 2: back in your brain. Where were you when Scores sat
Speaker 2: on a very chilly and bright north lawn of the
Speaker 2: White House. Actually, I guess it was on the south
Speaker 2: lawn for a massive signing ceremony in which President Biden
Speaker 2: reminded us of the prior administration and how we continued
Speaker 2: to try to celebrate infrastructure week. Well, now it's been
Speaker 2: infrastructure two years and joining us to get things started
Speaker 2: here before we bring in Secretary Pete Bodhajedge is our
Speaker 2: buddy Jordan Fabian from Bloomberg's White House team. Were you
Speaker 2: on the lawn for that? Were you following the pull
Speaker 2: reports that day. You might not. I was not. I
Speaker 2: was spared the cold weather. Yes, was in the warm
Speaker 2: confinell One thing you did do was endure months and
Speaker 2: months of debate and wrangling over this thing. A lot
Speaker 2: of folks started to think it wouldn't even be possible.
Speaker 2: It ended up being a bipartisan an affair. I think
Speaker 2: we can call it that. They're enough desent ours to
Speaker 2: call it that, but it's one that was not embraced
Speaker 2: by a lot of Republicans who've since been celebrating the
Speaker 2: arrival of money to their states. And I think President
Speaker 2: Biden might have predicted that, but that's the way Washington works.
Speaker 2: Is this the crowning achievement for this administration?
Speaker 8: It's definitely up there with the Inflation Reduction Act and
Speaker 8: the COVID rescue plan that he passed early on.
Speaker 2: That's the trinity.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I would say those are the big three, if
Speaker 8: you will, Yeah, to make a sports analogy, and I
Speaker 8: think that the president you'll apply see him try to
Speaker 8: campaign on this as part of the way that he's
Speaker 8: going to try and convince Americans that the economy's heading
Speaker 8: in the right direction under his leadership. But it's not
Speaker 8: going to be easy, because wow, this is a big achievement.
Speaker 8: A lot of these projects that were funded by this
Speaker 8: law are going to take months and years to get
Speaker 8: off the ground, and so Americans aren't necessarily seeing the
Speaker 8: byproduct of this law yet. But you know, five ten
Speaker 8: years from now, when Amtrak might be running smoother, the
Speaker 8: highway might have a fewer potholes, a new bridges in town.
Speaker 8: That's when you'll see the effects. But is it too
Speaker 8: late for him politically with twenty twenty four staring him
Speaker 8: down the way?
Speaker 1: Here?
Speaker 2: That's the real stuff, right, That's the stuff that people
Speaker 2: see and are impacted by. But how many years is
Speaker 2: the implementation? We can talk to the secretary about this
Speaker 2: in a moment. Do you have a sense of me?
Speaker 2: Is this over the course of the next decade you're
Speaker 2: going to see cranes popping up around the country. Absolutely.
Speaker 8: Look for example, at the Amtrak announcement that he made.
Speaker 8: I believe it was last week you went to an
Speaker 8: Amtrak facility in Delaware announced sixteen billion dollars for rail reconstruction,
Speaker 8: new bridges, new tunnels.
Speaker 2: That's all going to take a very long time to build.
Speaker 8: But at the end of the day, and combined with
Speaker 8: that gateway project up in New York that's going to
Speaker 8: expand the train capacity, you could see a rail system
Speaker 8: that at least in the Northeast is running a lot
Speaker 8: better than it is now. But you know that could
Speaker 8: take five ten years, if not longer, to build, just
Speaker 8: looking at the track record of these kind of projects
Speaker 8: in the US.
Speaker 2: Great to have you back, as always, Jordan Fabian, Bloomberg
Speaker 2: White House Reporter, hang out if you have some time, Jordan,
Speaker 2: You're always welcome here, as we welcome the Secretary of Transportation,
Speaker 2: Pete Buddhajeedge is with us now live on Bloomberg. Mister Secretary,
Speaker 2: it's great to see you. I want to welcome you
Speaker 2: back to Bloomberg, and I guess I should start by
Speaker 2: saying happy birthday. We were joking earlier it was infrastructure
Speaker 2: week until it became infrastructure a year in your administration.
Speaker 2: We were just discussing with Jordan Fabian, this is one
Speaker 2: of the big three crowning achievements of your administration, and
Speaker 2: I know that we've already started to see some of
Speaker 2: the benetts of benefits of that in terms of broadband
Speaker 2: connections in rural areas.
Speaker 9: What comes next, Well, what's exciting about this stage is
Speaker 9: we are seeing more and more of the projects move
Speaker 9: into a construction phase. We have identified forty thousand infrastructure projects,
Speaker 9: the majority of them transportation related, that are getting benefits
Speaker 9: from this bill. And it's only been two years since
Speaker 9: the President signed it. It's a five year bill, so
Speaker 9: every month we're going to see projects added to that roster,
Speaker 9: and we're going to see them move through the process
Speaker 9: toward completion. The thing that's been the most exciting and
Speaker 9: gratifying for me is the range of the projects getting done.
Speaker 9: You know, some of them are multi year projects. I
Speaker 9: call them the cathedrals of our infrastructure, like I heard
Speaker 9: you just a moment ago mentioning the President's announcements, one
Speaker 9: of which brings the Hudson River Tunnel to a level
Speaker 9: of funding that makes it one of the biggest public
Speaker 9: works projects in recent American history, all the way through
Speaker 9: to some six figure grants that we're doing that are
Speaker 9: transformative for a rural community that needs a deadly intersection
Speaker 9: to be redesigned, or even a municipal airport to be redone.
Speaker 9: So we're seeing things that are large and small rural
Speaker 9: and urban, And of course that was the president's vision
Speaker 9: in pushing so hard for this bill in the first place.
Speaker 9: That wouldn't just be a particular project, and wouldn't even
Speaker 9: be confoned to confined to one mode of transportation. It's transplanes, automobiles,
Speaker 9: and beyond.
Speaker 2: You just mentioned a really important component here, and that
Speaker 2: is the five year lifespan of this bill, of this law.
Speaker 2: Will it be fully implemented in that time, Secretary? And
Speaker 2: do you wish you could frontload some of the stuff.
Speaker 2: That's going to take a couple of years.
Speaker 9: Yeah, So that's how long we have to move the funding.
Speaker 9: But you know, the way the bill is set up
Speaker 9: is we can get some of it out the door
Speaker 9: sooner rather than later. So it's not just that kind
Speaker 9: of one fifth of the money moves each of those
Speaker 9: five years. And we want to do as much as
Speaker 9: we can quickly. Of course, the only thing more important
Speaker 9: than doing it quickly is doing it right. We're talking
Speaker 9: about taxpayer dollars. We're going through lots of steps to
Speaker 9: make sure that they're spent responsibly and effectively. But you know,
Speaker 9: already north of two hundred billion dollars have moved and
Speaker 9: this is what it's going to take to really achieve
Speaker 9: that generational investment that the President was so focused on
Speaker 9: in pushing for this bill in the first place.
Speaker 2: What's been in this two year period the biggest challenge
Speaker 2: of implementing this law. I know you've had Mayor Landrew
Speaker 2: criss crossing the country trying to put money to projects
Speaker 2: and implement what is a sweeping piece of legislation. What's
Speaker 2: the biggest hang up that you've faced.
Speaker 5: Well, certainly, delivery is a challenge.
Speaker 9: It's one thing to get a project funded, which is
Speaker 9: why most of these projects never got off the ground
Speaker 9: up until now, but it's another to see it all
Speaker 9: the way from getting funded to actually going into construction
Speaker 9: and then getting to that great day when we cut
Speaker 9: the ribbon and that new airport, that improved tunnel, that
Speaker 9: fixed up bridge, whatever it is is there for everybody
Speaker 9: to use and to take advantage of. One of the
Speaker 9: biggest challenges has been workforce, which, of course, macroeconomically, is
Speaker 9: a much better issue to have, you know, where we're
Speaker 9: going to find the workers compared to the issue of where.
Speaker 5: Are they going to find the work?
Speaker 9: But it's still an issue, and it's one of the
Speaker 9: reasons why we've been very proactive on that. Our department's
Speaker 9: participating in a program that the presidents called for for
Speaker 9: workforce hubs to be set up around the country and
Speaker 9: getting creative things like a facility I saw in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 5: They're doing a major airport project there.
Speaker 9: There are a lot of working parents and working moms
Speaker 9: in particular, who are working in construction on that project
Speaker 9: who have a chance to do it because they set
Speaker 9: up a daycare at the construction site, a simple smart
Speaker 9: move that unlocked a new source of human capital and
Speaker 9: gave more workers access to these good paying, sometimes life transforming,
Speaker 9: union construction jobs. So we're going to have to be
Speaker 9: creative to address some of those constraints in our supply side,
Speaker 9: whether it's workforce skill, raw materials, even But those are
Speaker 9: exactly the kinds of problems that we went into this
Speaker 9: line of work to be able to tackle because we're
Speaker 9: finally past the problem of there not being any funding
Speaker 9: out there.
Speaker 2: Well, I know I'm not supposed to ask you this,
Speaker 2: and maybe you don't want to answer it, but I
Speaker 2: wonder if you worry about implementation of this bill being
Speaker 2: potentially interrupted if a Republican were to win the White House.
Speaker 2: Are you allowed to talk to me about that? What
Speaker 2: would happen?
Speaker 9: Well, I guess what I'd say is that when politics interfere,
Speaker 9: it's never good. I mean, we've saw that recently with
Speaker 9: these shutdown threats that would have slowed us down or
Speaker 9: even stopped us on vital things like air traffic control hiring,
Speaker 9: which I think we all recognize needs we need to
Speaker 9: be doing more, not less right now, And it would
Speaker 9: have impacted at least some of the infrastructure work going on.
Speaker 9: And you know right now, I mean, without getting into
Speaker 9: campaigns and elections, I can tell you that right now
Speaker 9: we have a congressional GOP in the House that is
Speaker 9: proposing major cuts that would cut our ports program, it
Speaker 9: would cut the program we've used to build safer railroad infrastructure.
Speaker 9: So I do worry about that, But I also think
Speaker 9: we have a pretty strong defense against that, which is
Speaker 9: the fact that when these projects actually happen, when we
Speaker 9: announced them, even the elected officials who voted against the
Speaker 9: bill and fought the President at every turn, they seem
Speaker 9: to be perfectly happy to celebrate the projects with us,
Speaker 9: which I think is a good indication that this really
Speaker 9: is good policy.
Speaker 2: You know I mentioned that before you came on in
Speaker 2: a conversation that we were having. Mister Secretary, what do
Speaker 2: you tell these Republicans who have railed and some still
Speaker 2: go on the floor. I think Tommy Tuberville was one
Speaker 2: of them, and then they go home and they celebrate
Speaker 2: the ribbon. Is that actually, like, is that a good
Speaker 2: problem for you to have because it sells the deal
Speaker 2: in the end despite the headache putting this together.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 9: I mean, look, I have more appreciation for the handful
Speaker 9: of Republicans who crossed the aisle to work with Democrats
Speaker 9: and work with President Biden to get this bill done.
Speaker 9: But those who want to celebrate it after the fact,
Speaker 9: I guess, you know, welcome to the party. I mean,
Speaker 9: you know, these are going to benefit people. We don't
Speaker 9: have Republican roads or Democratic bridges. I mean, these are
Speaker 9: good projects regardless of politics, and they're going to benefit
Speaker 9: people regardless of their politics. And you know, we're not
Speaker 9: going to let constituents suffer because their particular representative was
Speaker 9: shortsighted about this. We're trying to really push past the
Speaker 9: politics and just get the work done.
Speaker 2: Well, it's not every day we get the Transportation Secretary
Speaker 2: on the air, and we are talking with Pete Buda
Speaker 2: Jedge here live on Bloomberg. We're a week out from Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2: My god, it's a week from today. I wonder what
Speaker 2: your team is working on and trying to anticipate in
Speaker 2: terms of disruptions or safety concerns on one of the
Speaker 2: busiest travel periods of the year.
Speaker 9: Well, you know, over the summer, we saw numbers that
Speaker 9: broke records in terms of TSA screening showing us we
Speaker 9: had all time record high levels of passengers taking to
Speaker 9: the air. I think the same thing is going to
Speaker 9: be true going to Thanksgiving in the winter holidays too,
Speaker 9: And so it's the most important thing to me is
Speaker 9: that the airlines be ready to take care of their
Speaker 9: passengers and that our department is ready to have those
Speaker 9: passengers back when they hit an issue. You know, compared
Speaker 9: to even one and a half years ago, there is
Speaker 9: dramatically better, stronger passenger protection that our department can enforce.
Speaker 9: People should go to Flight Rights dot Gov ideally before you,
Speaker 9: but I take it to learn a little more about
Speaker 9: what each of the different airlines is responsible for offering
Speaker 9: their passengers that again we can enforce if there's an issue.
Speaker 9: We're also trying to make sure that operational concerns are
Speaker 9: being met. It's why we're aggressively working to modernized FAA technology,
Speaker 9: hire more air traffic controllers to support that increased demand. Economically,
Speaker 9: it's welcome to see more and more people returning to
Speaker 9: the skies because remember, since we're talking about anniversaries and
Speaker 9: what it was like a couple of years ago, you know,
Speaker 9: it was only a little over a couple of years ago,
Speaker 9: everybody was wondering if the airlines would go out of business.
Speaker 9: Now we have kind of the opposite set of problems.
Speaker 9: We just need to make sure the system can keep up.
Speaker 2: So no meltdowns, no big Southwest messages this year that
Speaker 2: we have to plan for.
Speaker 5: Well, they're better not be.
Speaker 9: And if there is a problem, the airlines know that
Speaker 9: we are going to be on it very quickly and
Speaker 9: holding them accountable. But look, we've seen, to their credit,
Speaker 9: we've seen them step up. We've seen a lot of improvement.
Speaker 9: The rate of cancelations is actually below what it was
Speaker 9: before COVID so far this year. I'm looking to the
Speaker 9: airlines to keep that up and we'll do everything we
Speaker 9: can to help them meet those goals.
Speaker 2: Mister Secretary, I want you to know that your views
Speaker 2: are important to us around here. We like to walk
Speaker 2: out on policy on this show, so I'd love to
Speaker 2: see you again continue this conversation. Secretary of Transportation, Pete
Speaker 2: Buhage Edge, I hope you have a great Thanksgiving you too.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you, sir for being with us as always.
Speaker 2: I'm Jill, Matthew and Washington. Thanks for being with us
Speaker 2: on Bloomberg Sound On. Jordan's still here. I convinced him
Speaker 2: to hang out for a minute, and I'm curious Jordan,
Speaker 2: Phoebe and your thoughts on this from your perch at
Speaker 2: the White House. This is going to be the role
Speaker 2: out here for the administration. How did he do?
Speaker 8: I think they have the right idea, which is to
Speaker 8: try and get this money out the door as quick
Speaker 8: as possible, but also making sure that you know that
Speaker 8: money isn't just being siphoned off or stolen. You know
Speaker 8: that it's going to the right.
Speaker 2: To the right place.
Speaker 8: But of course the struggle is going to be again
Speaker 8: going back to the politics of this, which you know
Speaker 8: he's limited in.
Speaker 2: What he could talk about.
Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, how does the president ensure that he
Speaker 8: receives credit. And you know, this is something the President
Speaker 8: talked about in the Obama administration. He still talks about
Speaker 8: it now that.
Speaker 2: The saluce pitch, the sales pitch that.
Speaker 8: You know they did that big stimulus project. I'm sure
Speaker 8: some Americans remember those tiger signs that were around on
Speaker 8: road projects about you know, fifteen years ago, no one.
Speaker 2: Knew what tiger was. It was.
Speaker 8: It was the Obama stimulus that funded those.
Speaker 2: Your tax dollars paid for this, same for Obamacare. Right,
Speaker 2: he said they should have taken a whistle stop to
Speaker 2: around the country just to explain to people what it was.
Speaker 8: Right. And so I'm interested to see heading into the
Speaker 8: campaign here. And you know Biden has done this a
Speaker 8: few times, but does he lean into it more where
Speaker 8: he gets a little aggressive, goes into a district or
Speaker 8: a state. You know, I could think of the Brent
Speaker 8: Spence Bridge in Kentucky and Ohio, like right at Mitch
Speaker 8: McConnell's backyard.
Speaker 2: He showed up for it.
Speaker 8: Yeah, like he showed up and made nice. But as
Speaker 8: we turned to twenty twenty four, does he go in
Speaker 8: there and throw some oultboats and said, hey, the reason
Speaker 8: this bridge is happening ain't because of you know, Joe
Speaker 8: Shmoe Gop.
Speaker 2: It's because of me. It's because of me, the other
Speaker 2: Joe Jordan. Great to see you again, Jordan Fabian. He
Speaker 2: covers the White House for us and with us live
Speaker 2: on Bloomberg. Thanks again to the Second Terry. Thanks for
Speaker 2: listening to the Sound on podcast. Make sure to subscribe
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