WEBVTT - What's Up With Skin? 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:11.119 Welcome to Creature future production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:16.000 of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology, 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:19.720 and today on the show, humans are the best at 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:24.239 being the worst at healing ourselves. That's right. Research now 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:28.560 confirms it. We are the suckiest at wound healing. And 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:32.120 we're gonna get into it. Why are humans so bad 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:35.440 at healing? Why is it not that big of a deal? 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:38.160 And we will look at an animal that is one 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:43.000 of the most dead Pool esque critters out there with 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:47.560 incredible healing skills that are it borders on the grotesque. 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:52.239 So joining me today is I found one a medical 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:57.440 professional host of the House of Pod medical podcast, doctor 0:00:57.600 --> 0:00:59.279 cave Hodo, Welcome. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:03.720 We'd number one at being the worst. 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:10.000 Exactly human human pride at sucking h I just love 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:12.440 it when a study comes out just to confirm what 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:16.800 we've all already expected that we're not in basically every 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:22.080 way except our ability to cooperate and pound one rock 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:25.520 against another rock. We're really not great animals. 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:28.720 We're great at rock pounding, though, you're really good at that. 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:31.600 We throw them good, we break them good. You just 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:34.080 watch the Little Boy I have. I have young sons, 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:38.600 and the just it's so funny. There is a very 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:43.679 innate biological drive to throw and break rocks. Just watch 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:45.319 it in them at a young age is picking up 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:46.720 rocks and smashing them. 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:51.200 And it's fun. It is, you know, it's very fun 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:55.240 and it's and we eventually broken enough rocks and one 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:58.560 broke into the perfect shape of like, you know, an 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:01.000 arrow head, a hammer and air, and we're like, wait 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:04.960 a minute, huh, that's how that's how early evolutionary nail 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:09.000 psychology works. Yeah. So the reason I brought you on 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:10.760 and I want to talk about this is there was 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:15.560 a there's a new review out by Matsumoto Oda at 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:18.959 All which found that human wound healing is three times 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:24.160 slower than that of other primates. So yeah, it's we're 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:28.880 not doing so great in terms of our ability to heal. 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:34.120 Do you find with like this is a this is 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:37.360 a question. You don't necessarily just deal with cuts and scrapes, 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:43.080 but healing like recuperation times, say, between patients. Is there 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:46.519 a lot of variability of between individuals. 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:49.680 There's lots of factors that go into it in humans. Again, 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:53.080 I can't compare. I've never taken care of an ape 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:58.160 or any sort of non human primate. But in humans, 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:02.200 there is variation based on your other medical problems. You know, 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:06.880 their age, medications they're taking, if they are taking things 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:10.160 like steroids or ammusipressants, that will affect the way they heal. 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:14.640 So there is quite a bit of variability in terms 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:18.399 of how humans can heal. And there is a lot 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:22.520 of danger in the wounds becoming infected as they're healing. 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:26.760 So there are large portions of the medical system that 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:30.280 are dedicated solely to helping wound healing. There's lots of 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:33.240 devices that we have, there's lots of medications, there's lots 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:37.440 of techniques. There are wound care nurse specialists who have 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:42.200 expertise in helping that. But yes, there is a wide 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:45.280 variability and a lot of factors play into it for humans. 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:49.600 Yeah, and that's so interesting to me because there is 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:53.400 also a lot of different strategies when you compare species. 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:57.320 So even within say mammals, right, different animals will use 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:02.839 different strategies for healing, including like say, superficial wounds, which 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:06.080 is we're going to focus mostly on superficial wounds. You know, 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:10.040 I think the medical terminology is booboos, so we're gonna 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:16.320 focus on booboos. And so even within species, though, different breeds, 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:20.720 like within a species, can sometimes have vastly different methods 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:25.560 of wound healing. So, for instance, ponies and horses, they're 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:31.320 different breeds within the same species, have very different healing 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:36.800 rates and methods. So ponies actually heal much faster than horses. 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:40.640 This is great validation for Broni's you pick the right horse, 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:46.280 they're really really fast healers. The ponies will deal with 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:50.920 wounds with something called wound contraction. The skin sort of 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:55.000 like cinching shut, like I don't know, like sealing off 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:57.080 a balloon or something. I'm trying to think of a 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:00.000 good analogy for it. But the wounds sort of contract. 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:04.679 So it's a technique that's really useful for wound healing 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:07.440 because it reduces the amount of surface area exposed to 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:12.320 bacteria and the amount of surface area that you have 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:13.239 to heal. 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:15.440 Yeah, we don't do that great on our own. That's 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:20.080 why we have stitches and butterfly tape and a whole 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:24.600 other host of mechanism to approximate the edges of a wound. 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:30.360 Although I will say again I'm not a booboologist, but 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:34.640 I will say that there are times when you don't 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:38.560 necessarily want to close off that wound right away. You 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:40.360 want to make sure it stays clean, and you want 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:41.839 to be able to debrid it. You want to be 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:45.240 able to get the bacteria out of it. But again, 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:49.359 that's humans, and it actually can I be totally honest 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:51.320 with you, Yes, I don't know if I said this 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:52.880 on the last time I was on the show. This 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:56.480 is really embarrassing, but it just goes to prove that really, 0:05:56.560 --> 0:06:00.400 literally anyone can be a doctor. Is I didn't until 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.919 about a year ago, realized that ponies were not just 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:05.560 young horses. 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:11.479 M I do, well, they are little horses, yeah, but 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:13.480 I thought they were just like you thought they were. 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:15.480 They would keep going, they would keep growing. 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:17.360 I thought eventually a pony would become a horse. 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:21.200 Yeah. I mean, you know, I can see the mistake 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:24.760 because they are little ponies. But yeah, it's sort of 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:28.040 like the difference between a Great Dane and a Chihuahua. 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:31.600 Like the chihuahua is never gonna become a great day 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:34.240 no matter how much it wants and puts it up 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:35.200 on its vision board. 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:41.560 Well, I know it now I know that, like you know. 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:46.320 But it's the thing is like if when I'm selecting 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:49.200 a doctor and I have a serious issue, like it 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:52.600 doesn't really matter if they know that ponies are never 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:55.320 going to become horses, Like, that's not that's not gonna 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:57.400 help me necessarily. 0:06:56.800 --> 0:07:00.120 Being vulnerable here with you and telling you the truth. 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:04.560 Right, And I'm reassured and I'm reassuring you that that 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:07.280 when I when I have a if I'm going into surgery, 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:09.440 like what I want to know is that they know, 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:13.880 you know, which leg to operate on, doesn't matter to me. 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:18.440 If they understand pony biology, I'm much better humans. Right, 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:19.160 that's good. 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:21.960 About that's generally good. 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:28.120 But speaking of pony biology, yeah, ponies heal a lot 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:32.040 faster than horses, which is really interesting. The skin is 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:38.880 drawn together faster, it heals faster. Horses have a weaker 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:43.400 inflammatory response. They are more dependent on a process called 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:46.040 I'm going to pronounce this the first time I do it. 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:52.040 Here we go re epithelialization. Does that sound right? Does 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:52.680 that sound. 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:56.040 It's a tough one. No, that's you said it right, 0:07:57.240 --> 0:07:59.040 I stumble on it. 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:02.160 It's a lot. But that's as far as I understand, 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:04.480 and please do correct me if I'm wrong, as I 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:07.560 will correct you when you're wrong about ponies. It's like, 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:11.440 rather than sort of cinching the wound shut, it's building 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:15.000 a new surface layer of skin over the wound, kind 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:18.000 of like brick, laying over the wound with new skin, 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:19.520 like new skin cell turnover. 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:24.240 That's exactly right. It's just placing more epithelium and lighting there. 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:25.840 That's exactly what it is. 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:29.800 Right, And so that's a slower process than the wound 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:34.600 contraction because essentially you're like repaving the entire skin area 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:39.240 versus sort of just pulling it taut drying it together 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:43.480 exactly exactly. And in general, animals that have looser skin, 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:47.840 so skin that is less connected to the structures underneath 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:52.520 the skin, rely more on wound contraction versus animals that 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:57.920 have skin that is more tightly he's he'd one, am 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:01.760 I trying to say tightly adhere to the underlying structures 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:04.280 like our skin like have you if you've ever noticed 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:07.000 an animal like if fly lands on them, they can 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:09.320 do that cool thing where their skin just twitches and 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:12.360 chases off the fly. We can't do that. Our skin 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:15.920 is too thick and it's too tightly secured to the 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:20.240 underlying structures. So we're not the best at doing that 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:23.400 wound contraction versus other animals. 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:27.240 Yeah, it'd be weird. I mean, there are some theories 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:30.360 right about like hair human hair. 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.400 Oh, we're gonna get into that. We're getting into We're 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:37.920 getting into the hair get hairy, We're getting hairy. Oh yeah, 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:43.000 Because this is what's really interesting is that, in addition 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:47.440 to the various factors that may play a role in 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:51.640 faster wound healing in some animals versus others, like inflammatory response, 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:55.520 the amount of blood vessels in the skin, how firmly 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:58.520 attached the skin is to the muscle tissue, how thick 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:02.319 the skin is, et cetera. Even behavioral things such as grooming. 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:06.760 There is this question of like, well, why do we 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:10.480 heal slower than say, are really close relatives like chimpanzees, 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:15.160 Like it seems like we should have about the same 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:18.840 rate of healing, and yet chimpanzees and other apes primates 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:22.480 that were related to heal three times faster than us 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:27.560 on average. But yeah, so, like you pointed out, one 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:31.320 of the most notable things about humans compared to other 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:35.800 land mammals is our lack of fur, so we don't 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:40.760 have a lot of dense hair follicles, and each of 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:45.800 our hair are I mean definitely varies between individuals, but 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:49.839 for in general, when we're comparing ourselves to say other 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:55.600 primates or other mammals, our hair is less thick and 0:10:55.720 --> 0:11:01.360 it's less dense. So, you know, research have found that 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:05.800 hairless rodents heal more slowly compared to rodents that have fur. 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:10.560 So that's a very interesting thing. It's again it's not 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:13.280 yet it's smoking gun though, right, because if you have 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:16.840 a hairless rodent, there's a whole bunch of other factors 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:20.559 that go into well, it's hairless, so maybe it's inflammatory 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:25.480 response is sort of a more sensitive in terms of 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:29.040 other things going on because it doesn't have this gene 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:34.520 for hair growth. There's a lot of potential factors. But yeah, 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:41.160 so when we look at us versus chimpanzees, the interesting 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:48.280 thing is that chimpanzees compared to say mandrels or baboons, 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:52.280 heal a lot about the same rate, and chimpanzees compared 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:55.880 to humans heal three times faster than us. But when 0:11:55.960 --> 0:12:01.319 you look at hair density, like follicular density, uh, chimpanzees 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:05.240 and humans are about the same. That sounds weird, right, 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:08.319 because it's like, well, no, chimpanzees are way hairer than us. 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:10.400 What do you mean that the hair density is about 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:13.040 the same. It's that their hair is a lot thicker 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:16.040 and longer than us, so they have bigger hair follicles 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:19.360 than us, whereas we have we don't have anything. 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:22.040 We have the same nules. 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:24.800 Yes, they're okay. 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:28.120 They're bigger, yeah, exactly, so a similar number of hair 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:33.840 follicles differently distributed, but also their hair follicles are bigger. 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:41.440 So the idea is that potentially either having more hair 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:46.319 of fault, either having more hair follicles or having thicker 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:51.680 hair follicles could both be away that helps enhance wound 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:54.600 healing because of the presence of stem cells in the 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:58.440 hair follicles. So sort of this theory is that when 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:02.840 you have more hair follicles and or you have bigger 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.240 hair follicles, you're able to recruit more stem cells from 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:09.200 those hair follicles to help in wound healing. 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:14.559 As a Iranian male, I love where this conversation is 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:17.520 going because I like to believe that that makes me 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:21.839 a little bit more superhuman, right, Feeling wolverine was known 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:25.000 to be a very hairy mutant. That is the lore. 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:27.440 Yeah, it was a here suit man. 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.840 That's very interesting. Now this is I'm sure way more 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:35.040 depth than is necessary for this. But where are these 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:37.160 stem cells? Are they sort of in the base of 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:39.599 the follicle and do they are they released down to 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:44.240 the skin around it? Like how is this working on 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:45.720 an anatomic level? 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:48.080 Like I don't Yeah, I don't know that they know 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:51.480 yet because they don't even know if this is how 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:54.560 why this is enhancing the wound healing? Right, Like the 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.680 the in terms of like the stem cells potentially migrat, 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.800 like where the stem cells are along the hair follicle. 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:04.040 I believe they are at the very sort of base 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.720 of the hair follicle where they're sort of going through 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:11.760 the whole hair growth cycle. Right, they have some undifferentiated 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:15.440 cells down there that then can be used to promote 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:19.160 this hair growth and you know, turn into hair cells. 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:24.480 But the in terms of how they would potentially be 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:28.800 say recruited in nearby tissue to help in mound healing, 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:32.160 I don't know, and I couldn't find research on it. 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:35.320 That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So someone please write 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:37.880 to me tell me I'm dumb. I'm always welcome that. 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:41.800 But yeah, it's but it's also just not known for 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:47.320 sure if hair follicles are the sort of like magical reason, 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:52.600 the smoking gun of who heals better than others, but 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:56.080 it is. It is a very interesting idea, and it's 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:59.840 also kind of I really want to talk about he 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:02.840 humans sort of making this trade off for why aren't 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:06.000 we all that hairy, right, Like why did we lose 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:10.600 all of our hair? Seems like if these hair follicles 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:15.600 represent better wound healing, which we don't know yet, but 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:21.680 that's a theory. It just adds one more positive attribute 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:23.680 to having fur, right, Like, if you have fur, you 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:25.800 have a lot of hair. There's a lot of benefits. 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:30.800 There's a warmth, there's a protective layer, it's like armor. 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:36.440 There's also things like social signaling. Having different colored hair 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:41.080 can help signal like sexual maturity, it can help signal fitness. 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:45.600 So there's also the social aspect of grooming that is 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:49.240 present in primates that can be really really good for 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:52.160 cooperation within a group of apes. So there's a lot 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:56.440 of benefits to having hair, and yet we only have hair. 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:59.320 We do have hair all over our bodies actually. 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:04.720 Big for yourself, my friend. No, that is fascinating to 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.760 me because I always wonder that too. I'm like, it 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:11.800 doesn't really make that much sense you think that having 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:14.760 more body hair would be I mean, we take it 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:16.880 for granted because we wear clothing. We have to wear clothing, 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:21.920 that's our thing to stay warm in certain climates. But yeah, 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:26.640 what benefit do we get? Why are we And also, 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:28.520 I guess another question. I don't know if this is 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.560 evolutionary or if this is a social sort of question. 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:36.960 Why is less hair considered beautiful? Has that always been 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:39.200 the case? This might be like a more of an 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:43.680 anthropology question, like are there cultures in the past where 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:50.200 being her suit was considered more beautiful? Like, I mean, 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:54.200 there's been times in our current modern day world where 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:57.200 being hairy as a man, for example, has been good. 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:03.040 But yeah, like Gaston right, like remember right, he's covered 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:05.359 every inch of them is covered in hair, and the 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:09.520 ladies love it, and the men everyone, and the nbas. 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:12.040 I am what? I am curious? In general, I can't 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:17.920 think of any culture offhand where the it's been considered 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:21.800 a sign of beauty for women to be her suit, 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:26.119 which seems unfair, but I get, and maybe there is 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:29.239 one I just don't know. But I'm wondering why that is. 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:32.600 I'm wondering, like why we are as a society sort 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:37.080 of more and more over time trying to become less hairy, 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:39.879 Like what it is about us? If there's some inherent 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:43.520 biological need or desire to be less hairy, to be 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:44.720 less furry. 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:49.960 It's interesting. So I would say that the the human 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:55.480 like current human preference for less body hair is cultural, 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:59.080 and it's it's not something that is static throughout time. 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:03.320 Women shaving their underarms really only popped up, I think, 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:08.080 kind of in the nineteen around the nineteen twenties, and 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.000 that had to do with fashion changing, because all of 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:13.320 a sudden, women were actually wearing clothing where you could 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:16.399 see your armpits and you could see some leg and 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:18.639 so at that point there was this kind of like 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:22.520 seeing armpit hair or leg hair as kind of a 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:28.000 weirdly like sexual thing, and so shaving was introduced as like, well, 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:30.480 this is good hygiene, right, you want to shave, you 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:32.800 want to be clean, so that it didn't have this 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:37.280 kind of like it may have sanitized a bit this 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:41.840 shift in women's fashion. You see it in also in 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:46.480 like Greek sculpture, where a lot of Greek sculpture would 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:50.640 have male body hair sculpted but no female body hair. 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:53.720 That didn't mean women were shaving a lot back in 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:57.320 ancient Greece. It actually was because a lot of sculptors 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:01.440 saw female body hair as an apparently sexual thing, right, 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:05.119 so they wouldn't want to represent it in sculptures. So 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:08.800 I would say, yes, today, our preference for doing a 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:11.920 lot of shaping. Sorry, a lot of what am I 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:16.200 trying to say a lot of landscaping is is more 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:20.920 of a modern preference based on some interesting cultural shifts, 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:25.480 based on fashion changes. So it's a it is. I 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:31.840 wouldn't say, I can't think of any. 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:34.080 I mean, I'm sure it's not a biological imperative. It's 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:38.439 like men deciding what is beauty on some level. Like 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:41.320 it's funny that all these things they all kind of 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:45.359 come down to men, or not just men, but women 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:49.600 having to do the extra work, right A lot more well. 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:53.160 There is there is manscaping now. So I personally, I'm 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:55.440 I'm of the brand of feminism where it's like we 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:59.240 got to drag men down to you know, basically even 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:03.720 things out so we gotta make more maandscaping gottah, you know, 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:07.200 make pay win less, just pull you down to our 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:13.880 like crabs in a bucket. Now. But the one, the 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:18.840 one possible benefit to not having hair, both culturally right 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:26.200 like shaving, and in terms of our evolutionary history is parasites, 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.880 so ectoparasites, anything that would come and latch on, so 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:35.280 fleas and ticks. It's a much more hostile environment for 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:38.960 them if they don't have body hair, because for the ticks, 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:43.399 they can't really survive unless there's hair around them. They 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:47.800 would dry out too quickly, and for the ticks they 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:51.160 can they of course everyone's probably had some bad experience 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:53.280 with a tick, but you can find it much easier 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:57.080 if you're not covered in hair. And so, of course 0:20:57.119 --> 0:21:02.359 we still have ectoparasites. We have demodecks which get into 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:05.439 our eyebrows. It's a tiny horrifying looking thing if you've 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:08.560 ever looked at it in a microscope. You have them 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:11.600 on you right now, and they're not They look like 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:16.320 sort of a monster from Dune. Not not great to 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:19.280 look at. They're mostly harmless, but you know, head lice, 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:23.199 pubic license are both things that we can have so 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:28.280 there is, but is it sc Scabies is something that 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:31.320 can affect the skin even when you don't have hair. 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:33.800 That's I'm sure that's true. I don't know. 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:39.399 Bed bugs. Bed bugs also can like it's it often 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:42.800 you like the things that like. Things like bedbugs can 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:47.280 survive because they don't actually live on you. They bite you, 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:50.520 but they live in your bedding, which is super annoying. 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:55.639 So we do still have ectoparasites. But there is a 0:21:55.680 --> 0:21:58.720 theory that by losing some of our hair, it made 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:02.760 it harder for parasites to latch onto us. That's another 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:08.680 sort of theory for why maybe grooming like pubic hair 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:11.640 or grooming beard hair may have gone in and out 0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:15.000 of fashion. Maybe it followed some sort of like when 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:20.080 cities became more rife with, say, parasites. I'm not exactly sure. 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:24.320 I think that explains everything, both culturally and in terms 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:29.159 of evolution. The theory to me that makes the most 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:33.679 sense as to why human beings lost our hair as 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:38.159 actually thermal regulation, because we moved from more of a 0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:42.840 kind of like a jungle habitat to the savannah, and 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:47.960 we had to change our method of living quite a 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:50.880 bit in order to do that, and one was that 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:53.800 if we're living out in the savannah where it's very 0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:59.200 hot and we want to be able to eat anything 0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:03.800 that can possibly outrun us, we need to be able 0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:06.200 to thermoregulate and we need to be able to sweat. 0:23:06.600 --> 0:23:11.679 So we potentially made a trade off where we instead 0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:14.199 of having been covered in a bunch of hair, we 0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:19.000 traded that hair for sweat glands. Because we can't any 0:23:19.160 --> 0:23:21.199 organ This is true of any organism. You can't just 0:23:21.240 --> 0:23:25.920 put infinity resources into everything, right. It's like when you're 0:23:26.000 --> 0:23:31.840 making a character in I don't know, Oblivion or Baldersgate 0:23:31.920 --> 0:23:33.960 or any kind of thing where you get the sliders 0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:36.760 and you have to put points and stuff. That's basically 0:23:37.359 --> 0:23:41.360 evolutionary biology where there's sliders right when you turn the 0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:44.240 you know, the endocrine glands up and you have a 0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:47.400 lot of sweat glands, you gotta push down the hairiness 0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:47.920 slider of it. 0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:51.760 Yeah. No, And I think it's been shown that people 0:23:51.760 --> 0:23:54.280 who sweat right are tend to be a little bit 0:23:54.480 --> 0:23:58.600 healthier overall. Like there is a study that I should 0:23:58.640 --> 0:24:01.320 have looked this up before orient but like you know, 0:24:01.520 --> 0:24:04.960 that showed the people who had a little bit more 0:24:06.080 --> 0:24:09.240 sweat a little bit more freely and quicker. Actually tended 0:24:09.240 --> 0:24:13.240 to have better exercise capacity, which makes sense for what 0:24:13.280 --> 0:24:14.960 you're saying. Actually, completely my. 0:24:16.320 --> 0:24:21.000 Personal experience is that's true. I'm not much. It's interesting. 0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:23.880 I'm not much of a sweater when it comes to exercise. 0:24:24.760 --> 0:24:27.600 If I'm nervous, like then I start sweating, which is 0:24:27.840 --> 0:24:33.199 really useful. But yeah, I like, I basically don't start 0:24:33.240 --> 0:24:36.200 to get over the hump, like if I'm hiking or 0:24:36.240 --> 0:24:39.240 doing some intensive exercise, until after I find my body 0:24:39.359 --> 0:24:42.359 finally catches on that, oh, I have to start sweating now, 0:24:42.400 --> 0:24:44.720 and then I'm Actually it's like such a relief when 0:24:44.720 --> 0:24:47.320 that happens, because then I feel better and I get 0:24:47.359 --> 0:24:49.800 over this sort of like hump of like just not 0:24:50.119 --> 0:24:52.560 just it's like I'm going to die, and then realizing 0:24:52.600 --> 0:24:54.760 I'm actually fine, I'm nowhere near death. 0:24:54.880 --> 0:24:58.399 I just well, this is where I again, this is 0:24:58.440 --> 0:25:01.160 where I again am superhuman because I somehow man should 0:25:01.160 --> 0:25:04.200 be both hairy and sweaty. So that's the. 0:25:04.240 --> 0:25:06.000 Ideal human form. 0:25:06.600 --> 0:25:08.760 I am this. 0:25:09.920 --> 0:25:13.960 Yes, it's peak peak human performance sweaty and hairy. But yeah, 0:25:14.000 --> 0:25:17.159 so we potentially traded a lot of that hair. The 0:25:17.400 --> 0:25:20.479 not just the hair density, because like I said, the 0:25:20.760 --> 0:25:25.600 champanzees actually may have a similar number of hair follicles, 0:25:25.640 --> 0:25:29.160 but we traded in the hair thickness for more sweat glands. 0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:32.720 This is a theory. We we can't necessarily prove this, 0:25:33.400 --> 0:25:36.480 but that to me is one of the more convincing ideas, 0:25:36.480 --> 0:25:38.960 because there's other theories about like, well, we lost hair 0:25:39.000 --> 0:25:41.760 on our faces so that we could use social signaling 0:25:41.840 --> 0:25:44.720 like looking at people blushing or something, so we could 0:25:44.720 --> 0:25:48.239 tell if someone's like happy with us or angry. And 0:25:48.320 --> 0:25:51.200 I think that may have been a side benefit, right, 0:25:51.240 --> 0:25:56.399 and it may have influenced say like facial hair patterns, 0:25:57.119 --> 0:25:59.560 but I just don't think that would have been enough 0:25:59.640 --> 0:26:02.200 to have us lose all of our hair. I think 0:26:02.240 --> 0:26:05.399 the thermal regulation it makes a lot of sense in 0:26:05.520 --> 0:26:08.720 terms of our evolutionary history from where we moved basically 0:26:08.720 --> 0:26:13.360 from these essentially like seeing like the difference between humans 0:26:13.400 --> 0:26:15.119 and a lot of primates is where we ended up 0:26:15.160 --> 0:26:20.400 moving to the savannah and away from these these more 0:26:20.520 --> 0:26:24.320 sort of like forest regions, although there are mandrils and 0:26:24.440 --> 0:26:25.960 baboons that also do. 0:26:25.960 --> 0:26:31.080 This, but it is really it makes more sense on 0:26:31.160 --> 0:26:33.560 like a more basic level of what it does for 0:26:33.640 --> 0:26:35.520 your survival chances. Yeah, I get that. 0:26:35.600 --> 0:26:37.919 It's such a It's like, it's such a dramatic change 0:26:38.280 --> 0:26:41.359 that it seems to me something dramatic like being able 0:26:41.400 --> 0:26:45.160 to thermo regulate in an environment that is very hot 0:26:45.680 --> 0:26:50.600 and hostile to something that cannot run effectively in the heat. 0:26:50.960 --> 0:26:52.520 That makes a lot of sense to me. And so 0:26:53.400 --> 0:26:57.400 we potentially lost our hair because of that, And so 0:26:57.480 --> 0:27:04.360 it's interesting because also that the thermoregulation idea and losing 0:27:04.359 --> 0:27:07.639 our hair may have actually resulted in our skin being 0:27:07.640 --> 0:27:09.760 a bit thicker. Our skin is actually thicker than a 0:27:09.760 --> 0:27:13.879 lot of primates, and one of the potential reasons for 0:27:13.920 --> 0:27:17.080 that is without hair, now we don't have that armor, 0:27:17.440 --> 0:27:19.120 so we kind of have to make up for it 0:27:19.160 --> 0:27:23.200 by having thicker skin. And then ironically, another theory is 0:27:23.240 --> 0:27:26.680 that with this thicker skin, that actually makes wound healing harder, 0:27:27.160 --> 0:27:30.560 so you can There's just so many odd trade offs 0:27:30.560 --> 0:27:34.600 that happen with evolution, and these theories really show how 0:27:34.640 --> 0:27:38.720 tricky it is, because you know, what do weigh better 0:27:38.800 --> 0:27:41.399 the ability to heal or to not be injured in 0:27:41.440 --> 0:27:44.680 the first place, And how do you kind of weigh 0:27:44.840 --> 0:27:47.320 both of those things and have them come into balance 0:27:47.400 --> 0:27:49.520 for an organism to be successful. 0:27:50.160 --> 0:27:52.480 Yeah that I have to say. I'm surprised to learn 0:27:52.600 --> 0:27:57.600 that our skin might be thicker than that of other primates. 0:27:57.640 --> 0:28:02.000 But yeah, wondering like, have. 0:28:01.960 --> 0:28:04.360 You ever tried to insult a chimpanzee? 0:28:05.080 --> 0:28:08.360 They really roll with it. Yeah, give them credit. I mean, 0:28:08.720 --> 0:28:11.080 not great at roasting though, they don't seem to get it, 0:28:11.320 --> 0:28:14.680 but they do take a joke. 0:28:14.720 --> 0:28:18.840 Well huh yeah, yeah, I don't know. I I personally 0:28:18.880 --> 0:28:22.159 don't want to insult a gorilla. I don't want to 0:28:22.160 --> 0:28:24.320 see what happens. They're generally nice. 0:28:24.440 --> 0:28:27.480 But did you weigh in on the one hundred men 0:28:27.600 --> 0:28:30.840 versus you know, one gorilla thing? Have you? I'm assuming 0:28:30.880 --> 0:28:33.000 you've covered this at Nauvoom. 0:28:33.720 --> 0:28:36.240 I mean, do the men like, do they have is 0:28:36.280 --> 0:28:39.880 this a is it one man at a time? Do 0:28:39.960 --> 0:28:42.520 they have weapons? Are they wearing the armor? 0:28:43.120 --> 0:28:49.440 No, it's one hundred naked men. Okay, wine, well groom 0:28:49.520 --> 0:28:53.000 didn't clothed gorilla, all right, I have details. 0:28:54.240 --> 0:28:57.480 One hundred naked men. I mean, okay, so obviously I 0:28:57.520 --> 0:28:59.880 think the men went in this situation. I think that 0:29:00.160 --> 0:29:03.440 it's gonna be. It's the it's gonna be sort of 0:29:03.480 --> 0:29:09.160 like the It's sort of like bees versus murder hornets, 0:29:09.200 --> 0:29:12.880 where the bees surround the murder hornets and wiggle until 0:29:13.120 --> 0:29:15.760 the murder hornets die and some bees may be lost 0:29:15.760 --> 0:29:18.560 in the process. This is how I imagine one hundred 0:29:18.600 --> 0:29:21.680 naked men versus a gorilla. They dog pile the gorilla. 0:29:21.760 --> 0:29:24.480 Of course, some of them are going to valiantly lose 0:29:24.520 --> 0:29:29.400 their lives in the great gorilla battle. I'm also wondering, though, 0:29:30.040 --> 0:29:34.160 It's just like, but why gorilla is generally very nice, right, 0:29:34.240 --> 0:29:37.040 I mean, they're actually quite chill. 0:29:38.160 --> 0:29:40.680 That is really, that is really the question is why 0:29:40.680 --> 0:29:43.320 are you thinking about this? Leave these poor gorillas alone, 0:29:43.360 --> 0:29:48.760 them alone, relatively non violent primates, and let them do 0:29:48.800 --> 0:29:52.760 the thing. I think exactly. I'm assuming it's a they're 0:29:52.800 --> 0:29:55.440 being attacked. They're the ones being attacked, and they're defending themselves. 0:29:55.440 --> 0:29:59.080 In this scenario, the men are the gorilla. The gorilla 0:30:00.000 --> 0:30:02.040 glas being attacked. Yeah, I would assume that too. 0:30:02.080 --> 0:30:04.520 I don't think the girl is starting the melee against 0:30:04.520 --> 0:30:05.040 the hundred. 0:30:05.280 --> 0:30:08.760 I don't yeah, I don't think. Yeah. I think gorillas 0:30:08.760 --> 0:30:13.480 are too focused on leaf and termite to do that. 0:30:14.120 --> 0:30:17.000 You know, they just want to hang out and do 0:30:17.120 --> 0:30:20.720 leaf and termite, and men are going like writing on 0:30:21.120 --> 0:30:23.640 Twitter or whatever, going like I think I could beat 0:30:23.680 --> 0:30:24.160 a gorilla. 0:30:24.400 --> 0:30:24.760 Guess what. 0:30:24.840 --> 0:30:27.320 The girl is not even thinking about you, man, girl 0:30:27.400 --> 0:30:28.600 is not even thinking about you. 0:30:31.720 --> 0:30:35.720 That's so sad. It's true. We're humans are the only 0:30:35.800 --> 0:30:38.720 species that would take the time to yeh about this. 0:30:39.200 --> 0:30:42.040 Yeah, no, no, there they're out. They're living their best 0:30:42.080 --> 0:30:45.520 life while we're seething online. So keep that in mind. 0:30:45.960 --> 0:30:48.440 We're going to take a quick break and when we 0:30:48.480 --> 0:30:51.840 get back, we're going to talk about a tiny deadpool. 0:30:53.600 --> 0:30:55.920 This is really interesting to me because when I was 0:30:56.000 --> 0:31:00.760 reading this, this report on this new review of the studies, like, 0:31:01.120 --> 0:31:04.240 I couldn't help but think of one of my favorite 0:31:04.720 --> 0:31:09.680 little freaks of nature, which is the spiny mouse, which 0:31:09.880 --> 0:31:12.560 is such a strange Anneal, have you ever heard of 0:31:12.600 --> 0:31:13.720 this cave? 0:31:14.520 --> 0:31:17.360 I have not heard of the spiny mouse. No, so. 0:31:18.960 --> 0:31:21.120 We have talked about this on the show before, but 0:31:21.200 --> 0:31:25.080 it bears repeating if you haven't heard that episode. It also, 0:31:25.160 --> 0:31:27.200 I think is just so relevant because it's such an 0:31:27.240 --> 0:31:31.600 interesting connection to everything we've been talking about, the wound healing, 0:31:31.680 --> 0:31:35.720 the loose skin, the presence of hair. So there is 0:31:35.800 --> 0:31:39.120 this it's a genus, so there's multiple species within it. 0:31:39.120 --> 0:31:43.480 It's these adorable little mice called spiny mice. They're more 0:31:43.520 --> 0:31:46.960 closely related to durbils than to the house mouse, but 0:31:47.000 --> 0:31:48.240 they look very much like mice. 0:31:49.000 --> 0:31:50.920 I'm looking at a picture of them now, very cute. 0:31:51.040 --> 0:31:53.800 They almost look like the kangaroo, rat or something. They 0:31:53.800 --> 0:31:58.400 have a little longer nose than I expected, small nutsing spines, 0:31:59.800 --> 0:32:01.400 the spine, the aspect. 0:32:01.040 --> 0:32:04.920 Of this they have. It's more. They should be called 0:32:05.040 --> 0:32:09.160 bristle mice, but I guess nobody put me in charge 0:32:09.200 --> 0:32:12.480 of naming things. They should. But you know, they you know, 0:32:12.480 --> 0:32:16.200 all right, But they have guard hairs that are coarser 0:32:16.360 --> 0:32:20.760 and a little bit sturdier. So their guard hairs make 0:32:20.880 --> 0:32:25.960 them less appealing of a prey versus maybe a little 0:32:26.000 --> 0:32:28.760 rodent who has soft hairs. It's just like it hasn't 0:32:28.880 --> 0:32:32.240 reached the level of say like a porcupine or a hedgehog, 0:32:32.320 --> 0:32:35.080 where those those hairs have become really hard in stuff 0:32:35.160 --> 0:32:38.760 such that they really hurt and they can really pokey good. 0:32:39.240 --> 0:32:44.440 These ones, the bristles are unpleasant for predator and kind 0:32:44.480 --> 0:32:47.320 of pokey like if you've ever like with a hair 0:32:47.400 --> 0:32:52.280 brush or you know, something like or a piece of wheat, 0:32:52.520 --> 0:32:55.480 you know, like or grass or something, and you kind 0:32:55.520 --> 0:32:57.960 of sticks on your hand. You're like, ah, it's not 0:32:58.080 --> 0:33:00.840 a great feeling, but it's not like hurry. 0:33:01.360 --> 0:33:01.920 So that's. 0:33:03.960 --> 0:33:06.520 If I'm really hungry, I'm eating a hairbrush. Yeah, exactly. 0:33:07.000 --> 0:33:07.040 So. 0:33:10.560 --> 0:33:15.760 So spiny mice are found in African deserts. They are 0:33:16.720 --> 0:33:20.120 these amazingly cute little guys. And then it just turns 0:33:20.200 --> 0:33:23.120 into this like horror show, which is that they have 0:33:23.360 --> 0:33:26.120 this cool trick if they do get caught, which is 0:33:26.280 --> 0:33:31.600 just letting their skin fall off, so they will wiggle around, 0:33:31.920 --> 0:33:36.320 and the strength of which their skin clings to the 0:33:36.480 --> 0:33:41.360 underlying structure is much weaker than other rodents and much 0:33:41.480 --> 0:33:45.640 much weaker than like most other animals. So if you know, 0:33:46.160 --> 0:33:48.720 if you're like kind of holding the skin of this 0:33:48.920 --> 0:33:51.200 mouth and it's like wiggling it around, that skin just 0:33:51.240 --> 0:33:54.920 pops right off at a certain point. Yeah, and it's 0:33:55.000 --> 0:33:57.600 this is not this is not a mistake. This is 0:33:57.640 --> 0:34:02.480 a feature, not a bug, because this is essentially giving 0:34:02.560 --> 0:34:05.840 them a chance to escape. So the predator gets like 0:34:05.920 --> 0:34:10.760 a fistful of hair and skin and it's like, Okay, 0:34:11.040 --> 0:34:14.880 I have something, and the mouse gets away. And so 0:34:15.719 --> 0:34:18.879 the question though, is now that it has this huge, 0:34:18.960 --> 0:34:23.560 gaping wound on its body, because it's skin just popped off, 0:34:24.640 --> 0:34:27.319 what does it do right. It seems like this would 0:34:27.320 --> 0:34:32.040 be a terrible strategy because now you're wounded, you risk infections. 0:34:32.320 --> 0:34:37.440 It's really nasty. Within a single day, that wound has 0:34:37.520 --> 0:34:45.280 already clotted, scabbed over, and the surface area has been reduced. 0:34:45.400 --> 0:34:48.320 Using that we talked about, that wound contraction method of 0:34:48.440 --> 0:34:51.480 just sort of the wound cinching shut, it has already 0:34:51.719 --> 0:34:55.279 contracted by over half of the surface area that was 0:34:55.400 --> 0:34:58.919 exposed is now reduced by half. That's the first day 0:34:59.120 --> 0:35:03.359 of healing. In three days, new skin has already grown 0:35:03.440 --> 0:35:10.000 over the wound, including follicle regeneration, and even parts of 0:35:10.200 --> 0:35:16.080 their bodies that normally mammals in general can't heal very well, 0:35:16.239 --> 0:35:19.319 like ear cartilage, which doesn't heal very well. That's one 0:35:19.360 --> 0:35:21.920 of the reason we can do piercings right and keep 0:35:22.000 --> 0:35:26.880 that hole in our ear. Those their ears can actually 0:35:26.880 --> 0:35:29.000 completely regrow, which is wild. 0:35:30.400 --> 0:35:34.480 This is fascinating, especially because so it sounds like these 0:35:34.719 --> 0:35:38.080 spiny mice live in the desert and that's you're losing 0:35:38.719 --> 0:35:42.840 your skin along with the infection you're mentioning also just 0:35:42.960 --> 0:35:46.880 the risk of dehydration. Yes, your skin helps you maintain 0:35:47.200 --> 0:35:50.320 that hydration to lose that. I mean, it seems like 0:35:50.520 --> 0:35:55.239 such a counterintuitive skill set for an animal living out 0:35:55.280 --> 0:35:57.360 there to have. That's amazing. 0:35:57.640 --> 0:36:00.640 Yeah, I mean it's something where yes, they could still die, 0:36:01.040 --> 0:36:04.719 but they will definitely die if they're caught by a 0:36:04.800 --> 0:36:08.279 predator and eaten. And so it's it's this trade off 0:36:08.440 --> 0:36:14.439 where their chance of survival seems to increase by having 0:36:14.520 --> 0:36:19.640 this like disconnectable skin, and then they compensate for all 0:36:19.680 --> 0:36:23.960 these risks by having this incredible healing process unlike anything 0:36:24.440 --> 0:36:29.279 we really see in other mammals. So and yeah, so 0:36:29.440 --> 0:36:32.360 like essentially, in order to help protect them from that 0:36:32.840 --> 0:36:37.080 massive dehydration, they're sensing that moonshet as quickly as possible, 0:36:37.400 --> 0:36:42.480 reducing the surface area that's exposed to evaporation, exposed to bacteria. 0:36:43.080 --> 0:36:45.719 Uh and then yeah, immediately kind of like putting like 0:36:45.760 --> 0:36:48.279 they're sinching it. They're using the Okay, I'm gonna get 0:36:48.320 --> 0:36:53.120 this re epithelialization. Did they do that? You get it? Great? 0:36:53.480 --> 0:36:59.319 Kay pronunciation? So uh, yeah, they they regenerate that really 0:36:59.400 --> 0:37:03.680 quickly and amazingly though. Not only are they fast, they 0:37:03.840 --> 0:37:07.800 don't generate a lot of scar tissues, so they actually 0:37:07.920 --> 0:37:12.320 have this kind of loose collagen matrix that matches the 0:37:12.480 --> 0:37:14.440 other tissues. So you'd think like they would just kind 0:37:14.480 --> 0:37:17.040 of you know, I compared them to Deadpool. They're actually 0:37:17.120 --> 0:37:19.960 way better than Deadpool because of it. Instead of Ryan 0:37:20.000 --> 0:37:24.319 Reynolds basically having sort of like this patchwork face where 0:37:24.440 --> 0:37:27.200 he's still handsome but he looks kind of sunburned, but 0:37:27.360 --> 0:37:31.520 he's supposed to look really grotesque, they the. 0:37:31.800 --> 0:37:33.439 Most beautiful man in the world. 0:37:33.680 --> 0:37:36.680 Yeah, it's yeah, they didn't, you know. It's sort of 0:37:36.719 --> 0:37:37.279 one of those things. 0:37:37.600 --> 0:37:40.560 All yeah, look at. 0:37:40.520 --> 0:37:44.919 Me, I'm unlovable. I'm Ryan Reynolds with a bad subburn. Yeah, 0:37:45.680 --> 0:37:49.439 come on, guy. Anyways, but yeah, these mice, actually they're 0:37:49.520 --> 0:37:51.799 more I should say, they're more like Wolverine. Right, he's 0:37:51.840 --> 0:37:55.719 got the regeneration, right, I'm getting that. Please, I don't 0:37:55.719 --> 0:37:56.480 want to be attacked. 0:37:56.520 --> 0:38:01.800 I will sidetrack this whole episode and to extended detail 0:38:01.960 --> 0:38:05.319 on the Wolverine weaponex lore. But yes, you are right. 0:38:05.960 --> 0:38:08.680 They both share a similar, if not the exact same 0:38:08.840 --> 0:38:10.080 regenerator properties. 0:38:10.719 --> 0:38:12.799 Right, all right, it's only a short period of time 0:38:12.840 --> 0:38:15.759 where they do look kind of gnarly because like their 0:38:15.800 --> 0:38:18.520 skin just pops off in big chunks, which is, you know, 0:38:18.760 --> 0:38:21.440 a little bit of a nightmare. But yeah, So they 0:38:22.920 --> 0:38:29.440 are able to regenerate hair, follicles, epidermis, dermis, sweat glands, 0:38:29.560 --> 0:38:35.840 fat cells, nerves, muscles, cartilage, and they even have some 0:38:36.320 --> 0:38:41.320 evidence that they can regenerate parts of spinal nerves that 0:38:41.800 --> 0:38:47.080 are really difficult for say, other mammals to regenerate. Right, Like, 0:38:47.120 --> 0:38:49.640 when we have a spinal energy, it does not regenerate 0:38:49.880 --> 0:38:50.239 very well. 0:38:51.120 --> 0:38:53.560 No, this is fascinating to me, and I have the 0:38:53.760 --> 0:38:55.920 sinking fear that you're going to follow this up by 0:38:55.960 --> 0:38:58.960 saying that we have almost driven it to extinction and 0:38:59.040 --> 0:39:01.239 will never be able to stay to learn about how 0:39:01.440 --> 0:39:03.160 we as humans could benefit from this. 0:39:04.000 --> 0:39:05.680 No, we're actually studying, like this is one of the 0:39:05.800 --> 0:39:08.880 rare cases where we are studying it and it's not 0:39:09.200 --> 0:39:12.040 it's it doesn't seem to be a near extinction. 0:39:13.400 --> 0:39:15.799 It's fantastic because this is amazing. I'm just thinking about 0:39:15.800 --> 0:39:19.400 all the potential benefits from it. You're exactly right, Like 0:39:20.120 --> 0:39:23.120 just in terms of burn patients, in terms of patients 0:39:23.160 --> 0:39:27.279 with neurologic damage, nerve damage. To find as many ways 0:39:27.400 --> 0:39:30.040 possible as we can to learn to regenerate those things 0:39:30.080 --> 0:39:33.200 which are very difficult, as many options and as angles 0:39:33.280 --> 0:39:37.800 we can find is fascinating. What's also fascinating to me 0:39:37.920 --> 0:39:40.120 is when I did google it once you started talking 0:39:40.160 --> 0:39:42.960 about it and spiny mouse comes up, the first question 0:39:43.200 --> 0:39:46.520 it offers to answer for you is why do spiny 0:39:46.600 --> 0:39:50.440 mice ment straight? I don't know why that is of 0:39:50.560 --> 0:39:52.040 all the things that we're talking about. 0:39:53.719 --> 0:39:56.640 I mean, as as far as I know, they probably 0:39:56.640 --> 0:39:59.400 amin straight in this for the same reason every. 0:39:59.600 --> 0:40:04.440 Every y mammal, unsuccessful pregnancy results into crosis, the shedding 0:40:04.480 --> 0:40:07.000 of the functional layer of the uterus, the endometrium. So 0:40:07.200 --> 0:40:11.320 I don't don't know why for the spike be bouse. 0:40:13.480 --> 0:40:17.120 Fastening. There must but that must be that some that 0:40:17.360 --> 0:40:19.320 feels like it's too deep of a cut for like 0:40:19.480 --> 0:40:21.440 random people to be doing. There's got to be some 0:40:21.800 --> 0:40:24.879 like research intern who's like, wait, why is this dying 0:40:24.920 --> 0:40:27.400 thing menstruating all the time. I'm trying to study it. 0:40:30.280 --> 0:40:32.799 A lot, just view. 0:40:33.000 --> 0:40:36.120 Yeah that's wild. So yeah, I mean it's it's it's 0:40:36.239 --> 0:40:39.239 really amazing. It's healing ability is really amazing. So a 0:40:39.320 --> 0:40:42.640 couple of things are really interesting about this Uh. It 0:40:42.760 --> 0:40:47.480 also demonstrates a better cardiac healing than other mouse species, 0:40:47.560 --> 0:40:51.440 which again is very interesting. And so there's a few 0:40:51.480 --> 0:40:53.520 things going on with this mouse. I mean, let me 0:40:53.600 --> 0:40:57.160 preface it by saying, I don't know, and I don't 0:40:57.200 --> 0:41:00.719 think anyone knows exactly what's going going on with the 0:41:00.800 --> 0:41:07.359 spiny mouse. It's mostly this sort of conjecture because they're 0:41:07.440 --> 0:41:11.239 working on research and hopefully at some point we will 0:41:11.320 --> 0:41:15.000 know more about them. But one of the things with 0:41:15.080 --> 0:41:17.839 the spiny mice is that when you look at their skin, right, 0:41:18.640 --> 0:41:21.879 they have really loose skin. So, like we talked about 0:41:22.000 --> 0:41:24.359 in the first part of the show, where you got 0:41:24.400 --> 0:41:26.680 loose skin, it's easier to kind of synch that up 0:41:26.800 --> 0:41:30.440 like a draw string bag and do a wound contraction. 0:41:31.360 --> 0:41:35.839 But they also have a really high density of hair follicles, 0:41:36.280 --> 0:41:39.440 and they have really thick hair follicles. So they've got 0:41:39.640 --> 0:41:43.920 like everything going on that we've talked about earlier in 0:41:44.000 --> 0:41:47.080 terms of animals that have faster wound healing, right, loose skin, 0:41:47.719 --> 0:41:52.200 a lot of hair, and thick hair. But that obviously 0:41:52.280 --> 0:41:54.880 doesn't necessarily explain everything, right, because if they have faster 0:41:55.040 --> 0:41:59.200 cardiac healing. It's hard for me to imagine by what 0:41:59.480 --> 0:42:03.239 process their skin would help in that, right, Like I 0:42:03.480 --> 0:42:08.120 suppose there could be some weird migration of stem cells 0:42:08.160 --> 0:42:10.640 from the skin to cardiac tissue, but I don't. I 0:42:10.920 --> 0:42:12.600 have never heard of anything like that. 0:42:13.280 --> 0:42:16.800 It's probably a separate mechanism, but how it's related is interesting. 0:42:17.280 --> 0:42:21.000 What there are cells that line, you know, your cardiac 0:42:21.760 --> 0:42:24.560 the cardiac lining. I mean, I guess when you talk 0:42:24.600 --> 0:42:27.560 about cardiac healing, I mean, what does that mean. Are 0:42:27.600 --> 0:42:29.480 they like injuring the heart or are they doing what 0:42:30.000 --> 0:42:32.280 humans do, which is like they plug up the arteries 0:42:32.640 --> 0:42:36.640 and then see if they can re epitheliize that or 0:42:36.680 --> 0:42:40.400 if there can be like new vasculature that forms, because 0:42:41.000 --> 0:42:45.400 what could I've done really just hand waving here, But 0:42:45.560 --> 0:42:47.960 you know, I'm wondering if what they're showing is that 0:42:48.800 --> 0:42:52.840 there is a growth of vasculature to feed blood vessels 0:42:52.920 --> 0:42:55.600 to the rest of the heart if one is injured, 0:42:55.640 --> 0:42:58.239 for example, because that could make sense. That could be 0:42:58.480 --> 0:43:04.719 like stem cell active, causing more or hyper vascularization of 0:43:04.880 --> 0:43:09.200 the tissue of the heart. So that's fascinating. I mean, 0:43:09.360 --> 0:43:13.000 I would love to know about what they're actually doing 0:43:13.040 --> 0:43:15.960 in regards to these studies, how they're studying this. I mean, 0:43:16.000 --> 0:43:18.640 because it sounds like we could learn not only the 0:43:18.800 --> 0:43:22.680 skin stuff, not only the wound healing, not only nerve damage, 0:43:22.719 --> 0:43:26.880 but we could also learn how to heal scarred cardiac 0:43:27.000 --> 0:43:29.520 tissue potentially from these animals. 0:43:30.640 --> 0:43:32.640 Yeah, I believe it does have something to do with 0:43:32.760 --> 0:43:37.520 the revascularization around the heart. I think it might also 0:43:38.400 --> 0:43:43.279 have some ability to tolerate, say like heart attacks, and 0:43:43.480 --> 0:43:48.120 to heal the heart tissue after like an schema schemic event. 0:43:48.160 --> 0:43:48.840 I hope I'm saying that. 0:43:49.000 --> 0:43:53.120 Yeah right, yeah event, Yeah, blood flow. 0:43:53.440 --> 0:43:56.360 Right exactly, So damaged heart tissue as well as potentially 0:43:56.520 --> 0:44:00.399 healing more of the blood vessels. It might be sort 0:44:00.440 --> 0:44:04.040 of both things. They can't regenerate the tissue in the 0:44:04.120 --> 0:44:06.839 same way that they can regenerate their skin tissue. It's 0:44:06.880 --> 0:44:10.800 not like you can they can just like completely damage 0:44:10.840 --> 0:44:12.560 to the heart and then regrow the heart like they 0:44:12.600 --> 0:44:15.600 can with their skin. So it's there's definitely some separate 0:44:15.640 --> 0:44:19.920 process going on. Another interesting aspect to the mices, when 0:44:19.920 --> 0:44:22.359 they look at one thing they do understand a little 0:44:22.400 --> 0:44:25.959 better is their their ear healing is they can see 0:44:26.080 --> 0:44:31.239 that they form again, really hoping I nail the pronunciation 0:44:31.320 --> 0:44:34.120 of this. I think it's called a blastema, which is 0:44:34.280 --> 0:44:39.760 like this this cluster of undifferentiated cells like stem cells 0:44:40.320 --> 0:44:44.120 that form sort of this glob, and then from that 0:44:44.280 --> 0:44:46.600 glob it can start like you know, sit like these 0:44:46.680 --> 0:44:50.760 little undifferentiated cells move on out and start rebuilding whatever 0:44:50.880 --> 0:44:53.919 tissue is needed in that area. And so you see 0:44:54.000 --> 0:44:59.640 similar actually similar structures in say salamander limbs, where salamanders 0:44:59.680 --> 0:45:03.360 can rea grow entire limbs, and so they also have 0:45:03.560 --> 0:45:07.800 a similar like it's just a blob of undifferentiated cells 0:45:07.880 --> 0:45:13.000 them forms in the area and then basically sends out 0:45:13.040 --> 0:45:15.800 like different units like Okay, you go over here and 0:45:15.880 --> 0:45:18.680 then you figure out like hey, I need to be 0:45:18.760 --> 0:45:21.680 this kind of tissue cell and then develops into it 0:45:21.719 --> 0:45:23.879 and then it can regrow entire limbs that way. 0:45:24.880 --> 0:45:27.919 You know. I've heard about that with lizards that they're 0:45:28.000 --> 0:45:31.880 in going back to Marvel Lore doctor Connor's and the 0:45:31.960 --> 0:45:35.080 lizard and how he regrows his arm but becomes a monster, 0:45:36.160 --> 0:45:39.960 But I haven't heard about it much with mammals. I mean, 0:45:40.920 --> 0:45:47.600 in warm blooded creatures. Are there other mammals that can 0:45:47.920 --> 0:45:51.480 have the same sort of regenerative growth. 0:45:52.520 --> 0:45:57.360 I mean, most mammals can to some extent have regenerative growth, 0:45:57.520 --> 0:46:00.719 but we can't do entire limbs. Don't know of any 0:46:01.239 --> 0:46:05.000 mammal that can regrow an entire limb, uh it has 0:46:05.520 --> 0:46:08.400 we we can partially regrow things though, right like, so 0:46:08.640 --> 0:46:12.960 with this spiny mice them regrowing entire skin structures is 0:46:13.000 --> 0:46:15.840 pretty similar. That's maybe they're may be the most similar 0:46:15.920 --> 0:46:22.279 when you can compare mammals to salamanders, to lizards, but 0:46:22.440 --> 0:46:24.759 even like people, right like, if you it depends on 0:46:25.360 --> 0:46:29.200 like we can regrow structures to some extent, it just 0:46:29.320 --> 0:46:32.279 really the point at which you can chop an arm 0:46:32.360 --> 0:46:35.759 off for a human being to regrow is basically just 0:46:35.880 --> 0:46:38.880 the very tippy tippy tips of our fingers, right like, 0:46:38.960 --> 0:46:41.880 we can regrow a little bit of our fingertips, but 0:46:42.040 --> 0:46:45.880 any any further down where we can't. We can't handle that. 0:46:46.000 --> 0:46:50.959 Whereas uh, salamanders essentially just have a much higher higher 0:46:51.040 --> 0:46:55.120 tolerance for having their limb regrowth start at like being 0:46:55.120 --> 0:46:59.279 able to have that limb bud essentially reform and then 0:46:59.360 --> 0:47:02.080 start developed being a new limb, which we cannot and 0:47:02.480 --> 0:47:03.759 other mammals cannot. 0:47:03.480 --> 0:47:05.400 Do what a bummer. 0:47:06.160 --> 0:47:09.640 I know, it would be great. I I wanna, I 0:47:09.760 --> 0:47:15.400 wanna have that ability. But I'd like it to be 0:47:15.520 --> 0:47:18.520 where you not only grow like a new limb, but 0:47:18.719 --> 0:47:21.359 like maybe an extra one. So every time you get hurt, 0:47:21.520 --> 0:47:24.319 like you get like a little hand that comes out 0:47:24.360 --> 0:47:26.440 of like that injury. That would be so cool. 0:47:26.920 --> 0:47:29.800 You have to buy a new wardrobe like all the 0:47:29.880 --> 0:47:30.520 time though. 0:47:31.200 --> 0:47:34.239 Yeah, but then imagine all the snacks you could hold 0:47:34.520 --> 0:47:37.280 in all the little hands that you have. Now fair, 0:47:37.400 --> 0:47:43.879 I think about this a lot. Yeah, yeah, So yeah, 0:47:43.880 --> 0:47:47.160 we got we got weird mice that are growing their skin, 0:47:47.880 --> 0:47:51.640 which could be uh if we player cards right which 0:47:51.840 --> 0:47:54.399 right now we don't seem to be, but it could 0:47:54.480 --> 0:47:57.520 be if we research them more, they may help us 0:47:57.640 --> 0:48:01.200 understand our own uh slow heat healing process and maybe 0:48:01.280 --> 0:48:07.160 how we can improve healing both boo boos and heart booboos. 0:48:08.320 --> 0:48:09.040 Yeah cardio. 0:48:09.200 --> 0:48:11.720 Sorry, the scientific term is cardiac booboo. 0:48:12.320 --> 0:48:14.719 Yeah yeah, I mean, don't embarrass me in front of 0:48:14.760 --> 0:48:19.200 my doctor friends. That is what we call it. I know, 0:48:19.320 --> 0:48:21.840 I think that is That's fascinating. Again. One thing I 0:48:21.920 --> 0:48:26.759 love about coming on the show is just being introduced 0:48:26.840 --> 0:48:32.400 to these these animals that have all the the in 0:48:32.719 --> 0:48:37.439 vivo studies we could want right there, Yeah, to learn 0:48:37.520 --> 0:48:40.919 more about ourselves, Like, I think it's a great way. Two, 0:48:41.320 --> 0:48:43.680 it's a great way to build the science is to 0:48:44.040 --> 0:48:47.680 to learn about these animals, you know, of course in 0:48:47.880 --> 0:48:51.600 an ethical way, and you know too, to learn a 0:48:51.640 --> 0:48:54.360 little bit more about their healing process and how different 0:48:54.440 --> 0:48:57.279 things can be. It's just nothing else. It opens up 0:48:57.320 --> 0:48:59.640 our minds to the possibilities of what we could be 0:48:59.760 --> 0:49:03.080 doing with humans. I think that's really fun. It's really 0:49:03.120 --> 0:49:05.480 fun because if you get so as doctors, we get 0:49:05.560 --> 0:49:08.839 so like at some point locked into what we can 0:49:08.960 --> 0:49:11.200 do and what we do know and what happens currently 0:49:11.280 --> 0:49:14.279 with the human body. It requires people thinking outside of 0:49:14.320 --> 0:49:17.400 the box like this, to be like, Okay, what is 0:49:17.440 --> 0:49:19.960 this animal doing that's different, and then someone to take 0:49:20.040 --> 0:49:24.400 that information and to eventually work multiple steps, obviously to 0:49:24.480 --> 0:49:27.080 the point where how can this benefit us? Which I 0:49:27.200 --> 0:49:30.240 know makes me sound like a monster. I do love animals, 0:49:30.320 --> 0:49:34.120 even if they can't help us. But I think it's 0:49:34.200 --> 0:49:38.680 really exciting. It's really exciting to another great reason why 0:49:38.960 --> 0:49:41.480 we need to be doing research. 0:49:41.640 --> 0:49:45.319 Because I mean, I'm not an I'm not a vegetarian, 0:49:45.560 --> 0:49:48.640 So the idea that I would make draw the line 0:49:48.680 --> 0:49:51.600 at doing animal research as long as it's you know, 0:49:51.800 --> 0:49:56.359 done humanely, right that it's you know, I don't need 0:49:56.440 --> 0:50:02.160 to eat meat, but I think help people with survive 0:50:02.239 --> 0:50:05.040 heart attacks and stuff is very important. Yeah. 0:50:05.480 --> 0:50:08.000 Yeah, it's really exciting. It's really fun to yeah, to 0:50:08.080 --> 0:50:11.600 see that and to be like this, to keep thinking 0:50:11.640 --> 0:50:14.600 of new possibilities. A lot of that the animals are fantastic. 0:50:15.160 --> 0:50:18.200 Yeah, absolutely, and I mean hopefully also gives us more 0:50:18.280 --> 0:50:20.600 incentive to Like you said, even though the spiny mouse, 0:50:21.239 --> 0:50:24.400 there could be some species that are in trouble. I 0:50:24.960 --> 0:50:27.600 don't actually know if there are any that are endangered, 0:50:27.680 --> 0:50:31.160 but certainly a lot of species are not endangered. But 0:50:32.880 --> 0:50:38.400 I think it just when we keep our natural ecosystems functioning, 0:50:38.719 --> 0:50:43.480 and there's just like an incredible library of genetic knowledge 0:50:43.520 --> 0:50:47.000 that is completely irreplaceable, right. Like we've talked about this 0:50:47.200 --> 0:50:49.080 before actually when I had you on, Like we talked 0:50:49.120 --> 0:50:52.160 about the gas rooting frog, this frog that has this 0:50:52.239 --> 0:50:55.320 amazing ability not to kill its own offspring that it 0:50:55.520 --> 0:50:58.400 has in its stomach and somehow its stomach acid doesn't 0:50:58.480 --> 0:51:02.440 burn through its own offspring. And just the fact that 0:51:02.520 --> 0:51:08.040 that went extinct and we don't have that incredible sort 0:51:08.080 --> 0:51:10.480 of like you imagine if these spiny mice went extinct, 0:51:10.560 --> 0:51:13.879 right like this, this incredible ability that this animal has, 0:51:14.480 --> 0:51:16.600 So yeah, it's a I think it's it is something 0:51:16.719 --> 0:51:20.359 that really it's a good way to be humbled too, 0:51:20.560 --> 0:51:23.280 that like, look, humans are great, we're very very smart, 0:51:23.480 --> 0:51:27.200 but we can't just regrow a huge chunks of our 0:51:27.239 --> 0:51:30.600 skin in like three days. We can't lose like sixty 0:51:30.680 --> 0:51:33.560 percent of our skin and then regrow it and be okay. 0:51:35.000 --> 0:51:38.920 So yeah, just respecting these little guys. 0:51:39.680 --> 0:51:41.759 I mean, and we talked about this last time too. 0:51:41.880 --> 0:51:44.080 It is one of those things where I could easily 0:51:44.160 --> 0:51:47.800 see some politician saying, can you believe that we're spending 0:51:47.880 --> 0:51:52.640 a million dollars to keep a mouse alive in this environment? 0:51:53.520 --> 0:51:57.440 In you were like, yeah, there's a really good reason 0:51:57.480 --> 0:51:59.640 for that. There's a really good reason. It may not 0:51:59.719 --> 0:52:05.640 be obvious right away, but research is always good, you know, 0:52:05.920 --> 0:52:10.080 learning good research is always good for us. So whether 0:52:10.160 --> 0:52:13.080 or not it's obvious initially right away or not, it is. 0:52:13.200 --> 0:52:16.640 I'm sure whoever started looking at the desert mouse, I'm sorry, 0:52:16.760 --> 0:52:20.480 not the spiny mouse didn't know at first all the 0:52:20.560 --> 0:52:24.120 potential benefits of what it can do or what it 0:52:24.239 --> 0:52:27.320 can be, and they just start studying it because they're interested. 0:52:27.480 --> 0:52:30.120 And now we know it can do these remarkable things. 0:52:30.520 --> 0:52:34.720 So yeah, grant writers, just just include in your grant 0:52:35.640 --> 0:52:39.840 somewhere that this might help the libido of aging white 0:52:39.920 --> 0:52:44.520 men in Congress and you know that's there. You go, 0:52:44.920 --> 0:52:46.200 funding that's it. 0:52:48.000 --> 0:52:48.319 All right. 0:52:48.400 --> 0:52:49.839 Before we go, we got to play a little game 0:52:49.880 --> 0:52:53.000 called Guests, Who's Squawk and the Men the Mystery Animal 0:52:53.080 --> 0:52:55.759 Sound Game. Every week I play a mystery animal sound 0:52:55.800 --> 0:52:57.520 in you the guests, and you the listener, try to 0:52:57.560 --> 0:52:59.839 guess who is making this sound. It could be any 0:53:00.000 --> 0:53:03.839 animal in the world. Last week's Mister Animals sound hint 0:53:04.080 --> 0:53:07.680 was this found in eastern North America. You might find 0:53:07.760 --> 0:53:11.040 this little guy boogie wogging, and who can blame him 0:53:11.360 --> 0:53:16.719 with a call like this? Okay, here we go. Oh yeah, god, 0:53:16.800 --> 0:53:30.640 I love this guy. Okay, Oh it's so cute. Favorite 0:53:30.680 --> 0:53:35.759 bird call the bird? Okay, Oh I dang, this is 0:53:35.840 --> 0:53:39.640 a first. I've never accidentally given a hint. I didn't 0:53:39.680 --> 0:53:42.400 mean to, but yes it is a bird. 0:53:42.520 --> 0:53:43.320 So there you go. 0:53:44.120 --> 0:53:47.120 Hint to new hint because I can't keep my mouth shut. 0:53:47.160 --> 0:53:50.759 But yeah, this ahe is so cute. COVID, you got 0:53:50.880 --> 0:53:53.680 any guesses for this adorable little sound? 0:53:54.280 --> 0:53:55.759 Is that this week's or last week? 0:53:55.840 --> 0:53:57.920 So that you're playing that's last week's that I'm flu fun. 0:53:58.400 --> 0:54:01.080 It's okay. It's a bird and as like a little squeak, 0:54:01.160 --> 0:54:05.239 and I think blue jays are squeaky. Is it a 0:54:05.280 --> 0:54:05.759 blue jay? 0:54:07.719 --> 0:54:07.759 No? 0:54:09.200 --> 0:54:09.880 What is it? 0:54:11.640 --> 0:54:17.920 It is the American woodcock. So congratulations to Chad F. 0:54:18.120 --> 0:54:22.719 Max and Laura W. Who guessed correctly. American woodcocks. Uh 0:54:23.160 --> 0:54:27.080 kind of you gotta google it. They're so cute they 0:54:28.040 --> 0:54:31.680 they make. In addition to that adorable little pink sound, 0:54:32.239 --> 0:54:35.839 they have these cute little bodies and they have long 0:54:35.960 --> 0:54:39.520 beaks that are way too big for their tininess. But 0:54:40.920 --> 0:54:43.520 another thing that they do that is just so adorable 0:54:43.680 --> 0:54:46.400 is they like to rock back and forth on the ground. 0:54:46.840 --> 0:54:49.120 And if you've seen like a gift of a weird 0:54:49.160 --> 0:54:52.160 little bird doing what looks like the boogie woogie, that's 0:54:52.200 --> 0:54:55.440 an American woodcock because they and one of the theories 0:54:55.480 --> 0:54:57.759 for why they do this is that they're trying to 0:54:58.000 --> 0:55:02.680 coax earthworms up out of the ground, essentially by mimicking 0:55:02.800 --> 0:55:07.120 the vibrations of rain on the ground, which for worms 0:55:07.160 --> 0:55:09.759 would be bad news because when it rains, they come 0:55:09.840 --> 0:55:13.600 out of the ground because they can drown if they 0:55:13.760 --> 0:55:15.920 stay in the soil. And so wow, one of the 0:55:16.160 --> 0:55:18.000 one of the theories, like, there are a few theories 0:55:18.000 --> 0:55:19.719 about why they do this, and this is one of them. 0:55:20.000 --> 0:55:21.800 And my favorite one is that they're doing this to 0:55:21.880 --> 0:55:24.960 try to coax worms up out of the ground with 0:55:25.080 --> 0:55:30.080 their little boogie woggeeing dance. It's adorable. They're so cute, very. 0:55:30.040 --> 0:55:31.080 Poly trees of them. 0:55:31.120 --> 0:55:35.799 It's like very like exactly if you walk with if 0:55:35.840 --> 0:55:38.280 you walk with rhythm, you will attract the worm. 0:55:38.400 --> 0:55:43.840 Yeah, exactly. All right, let me let me let me 0:55:43.920 --> 0:55:46.480 hear the wine for next week. I think I'm gonna 0:55:46.480 --> 0:55:46.680 get this. 0:55:46.760 --> 0:55:51.040 Yes, yes, yes, yes, ah yeah, all right. So the 0:55:51.200 --> 0:55:54.320 hint for this week's the ceria sound is this. This 0:55:54.680 --> 0:55:58.040 fierce little carnivore is like a wolf that you can 0:55:58.120 --> 0:56:03.600 fit in your pocket. All right. Can you hear that. 0:56:05.239 --> 0:56:07.000 Very high pitched sound. 0:56:10.520 --> 0:56:13.320 You do not need to adjust your headphones. It is 0:56:13.440 --> 0:56:16.400 that thing that sounds like something is wrong. 0:56:16.960 --> 0:56:20.880 With the audio, guess, and it's wolf like. 0:56:22.880 --> 0:56:27.120 I'll just repeat the hint. It is that this fierce 0:56:27.239 --> 0:56:30.080 little carnivore is like a wolf that you can fit 0:56:30.200 --> 0:56:30.840 in your pocket. 0:56:35.000 --> 0:56:36.080 Okay, here one more time. 0:56:36.800 --> 0:56:41.480 They hear it in a sentence, the sentences. 0:56:42.680 --> 0:56:48.000 And then wolf. Okay, do you know what I think? 0:56:48.080 --> 0:56:52.160 That's a trick question. I think it's a wolf spider 0:56:52.960 --> 0:56:55.640 and somehow making the squeaky sound, which I don't know 0:56:55.719 --> 0:56:58.520 spiders can make a sound. That's between that and my 0:56:58.600 --> 0:57:01.000 pony reference. I think I have out of myself as 0:57:01.080 --> 0:57:02.760 someone doesn't know much about any animals. 0:57:03.719 --> 0:57:07.040 That's an amazing guest. There are spiders who can make sounds, 0:57:07.120 --> 0:57:08.720 so that is not a bad guess. 0:57:08.600 --> 0:57:11.280 At all, but it's not correct. 0:57:11.320 --> 0:57:16.360 Fine, I can't tell you. Okay, no spoilers because you 0:57:16.400 --> 0:57:20.080 got to wait until next week when I answer who 0:57:20.280 --> 0:57:23.480 is making that sound? And if you out there think 0:57:23.560 --> 0:57:26.360 you know who that is, you can write to me 0:57:26.440 --> 0:57:30.320 at Creature feature Pod at gmail dot com. That's right, 0:57:30.400 --> 0:57:33.360 you can compete directly head to head with an actual 0:57:33.560 --> 0:57:40.280 medical doctor. Tell your friends Kevin, thank you so much 0:57:40.400 --> 0:57:41.520 for joining me today. 0:57:41.920 --> 0:57:43.720 Oh, thank you so much for having me. I always 0:57:43.800 --> 0:57:45.600 learned so much when I come on the show. It's 0:57:45.640 --> 0:57:50.160 so much fun. I really have in the recent months 0:57:50.200 --> 0:57:53.120 to year has really been trying to learn as much 0:57:53.160 --> 0:57:54.840 as I can about stuff because I feel like it 0:57:55.160 --> 0:57:57.200 keeps me young when I do. I'm trying to like 0:57:57.640 --> 0:58:01.160 reignite my love of education and learning, and this show 0:58:01.320 --> 0:58:03.160 is such a great way to do that. So I 0:58:03.240 --> 0:58:06.240 really appreciate that. Thanks for having me on and thanks 0:58:06.280 --> 0:58:06.919 for doing the show. 0:58:07.760 --> 0:58:09.600 Yeah. Absolutely. Where can people find you? 0:58:10.760 --> 0:58:13.400 I am on a podcast called The House of Pod. 0:58:13.560 --> 0:58:18.120 It is a humor adjacent, fun little medical podcast. You'll 0:58:18.800 --> 0:58:23.040 hear lots of people come on the show, from Peter 0:58:23.200 --> 0:58:28.480 Hotez and other world renowned infectious disease doctors and specialist 0:58:28.560 --> 0:58:32.000 physicians of all kinds, to musicians like Portugal de man 0:58:32.240 --> 0:58:35.960 or comedians like mos Er Browny or amazing podcast host 0:58:36.000 --> 0:58:40.040 Slash and well behavior offficionados like Katie Golden, who's going 0:58:40.120 --> 0:58:43.120 to be on as we speak, is on this week's episode. 0:58:43.240 --> 0:58:44.960 By the time you hear this, it will be last week's. 0:58:45.320 --> 0:58:46.280 So go back and. 0:58:46.320 --> 0:58:50.480 Listen to that's right, cross politics, cross pollination people. 0:58:50.880 --> 0:58:53.800 That's right. So you'll if you like this show, we're 0:58:53.880 --> 0:58:56.400 sort of in a similar vein but more human y, 0:58:56.920 --> 0:58:59.800 and I promise I know more about human bodies than 0:59:00.080 --> 0:59:03.200 to animals. So but you're gonna like it. It's a 0:59:03.200 --> 0:59:05.600 similar vibe. It's like, you know, let's wear animals too. 0:59:05.840 --> 0:59:07.120 So if you like animals. 0:59:08.680 --> 0:59:11.520 Exactly, as long as you stick to human doctoring and 0:59:11.600 --> 0:59:14.560 you don't do pony doctoring, then you should be fine. 0:59:16.120 --> 0:59:16.640 But I. 0:59:18.480 --> 0:59:22.560 I highly recommend the podcast. I actually, when I have 0:59:22.720 --> 0:59:25.800 to fly, like say, I'm visiting my family back in 0:59:25.840 --> 0:59:27.800 the US, that's one of my go to things to 0:59:27.880 --> 0:59:30.800 load up on my phone so I can just listen 0:59:31.160 --> 0:59:35.160 and learn stuff about medicine. But it's not intimidating because. 0:59:35.280 --> 0:59:36.840 You know, I'm not not intimidating. 0:59:37.520 --> 0:59:44.240 Yeah, you're not intimidating. I know what were until, right, 0:59:44.400 --> 0:59:47.080 So if you're if you're interested in medical topics and 0:59:47.360 --> 0:59:49.280 you're curious about stuff and you want to learn in 0:59:49.360 --> 0:59:51.960 a fun, friendly way, highly recommend that podcast. 0:59:52.040 --> 0:59:52.640 Thank you so much. 0:59:53.240 --> 0:59:55.400 Thank you guys for listening to the show. If you 0:59:55.520 --> 0:59:58.200 leave writing a review, I read every single one. Appreciate 0:59:58.360 --> 1:00:01.240 all the reviews. Thank to the Space Classics for their 1:00:01.360 --> 1:00:05.040 super awesome song. Ex Alumina. Creature features a production of iHeartRadio. 1:00:05.120 --> 1:00:07.480 For more podcasts like the one you just heard, visit 1:00:07.520 --> 1:00:09.440 the iHeartRadio, app Apple podcasts are you guess what? 1:00:09.920 --> 1:00:10.120 Where? 1:00:10.120 --> 1:00:12.240 Have you listen to your favorite shows? I'm not your mother. 1:00:12.400 --> 1:00:14.520 I can't tell you what to do. But don't go 1:00:14.720 --> 1:00:17.400 out there and try to get bit by a radioactive 1:00:17.480 --> 1:00:22.320 spiny mouse. You're just probably gonna get real sick, mostly 1:00:22.400 --> 1:00:25.240 from the radiation and maybe a little bit from the 1:00:25.320 --> 1:00:28.320 mouse bite. So don't do that. We can all be. 1:00:28.480 --> 1:00:31.040 We can't all be Peter Parker. Some of us just 1:00:31.080 --> 1:00:35.320 get mad mouse tumors. So don't do that, all right, everybody, 1:00:35.360 --> 1:00:36.440 see you next Wednesday.