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Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature future production of iHeartRadio. I'm your host

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Speaker 1: of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology,

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Speaker 1: and today on the show, humans are the best at

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Speaker 1: being the worst at healing ourselves. That's right. Research now

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Speaker 1: confirms it. We are the suckiest at wound healing. And

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Speaker 1: we're gonna get into it. Why are humans so bad

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Speaker 1: at healing? Why is it not that big of a deal?

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Speaker 1: And we will look at an animal that is one

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Speaker 1: of the most dead Pool esque critters out there with

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Speaker 1: incredible healing skills that are it borders on the grotesque.

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Speaker 1: So joining me today is I found one a medical

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Speaker 1: professional host of the House of Pod medical podcast, doctor

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Speaker 1: cave Hodo, Welcome.

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Speaker 2: We'd number one at being the worst.

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Speaker 1: Exactly human human pride at sucking h I just love

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Speaker 1: it when a study comes out just to confirm what

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Speaker 1: we've all already expected that we're not in basically every

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Speaker 1: way except our ability to cooperate and pound one rock

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Speaker 1: against another rock. We're really not great animals.

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Speaker 2: We're great at rock pounding, though, you're really good at that.

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Speaker 2: We throw them good, we break them good. You just

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Speaker 2: watch the Little Boy I have. I have young sons,

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Speaker 2: and the just it's so funny. There is a very

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Speaker 2: innate biological drive to throw and break rocks. Just watch

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Speaker 2: it in them at a young age is picking up

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Speaker 2: rocks and smashing them.

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Speaker 1: And it's fun. It is, you know, it's very fun

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Speaker 1: and it's and we eventually broken enough rocks and one

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Speaker 1: broke into the perfect shape of like, you know, an

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Speaker 1: arrow head, a hammer and air, and we're like, wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, huh, that's how that's how early evolutionary nail

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Speaker 1: psychology works. Yeah. So the reason I brought you on

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Speaker 1: and I want to talk about this is there was

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Speaker 1: a there's a new review out by Matsumoto Oda at

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Speaker 1: All which found that human wound healing is three times

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Speaker 1: slower than that of other primates. So yeah, it's we're

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Speaker 1: not doing so great in terms of our ability to heal.

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Speaker 1: Do you find with like this is a this is

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Speaker 1: a question. You don't necessarily just deal with cuts and scrapes,

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Speaker 1: but healing like recuperation times, say, between patients. Is there

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Speaker 1: a lot of variability of between individuals.

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Speaker 2: There's lots of factors that go into it in humans. Again,

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Speaker 2: I can't compare. I've never taken care of an ape

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Speaker 2: or any sort of non human primate. But in humans,

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Speaker 2: there is variation based on your other medical problems. You know,

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Speaker 2: their age, medications they're taking, if they are taking things

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Speaker 2: like steroids or ammusipressants, that will affect the way they heal.

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Speaker 2: So there is quite a bit of variability in terms

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Speaker 2: of how humans can heal. And there is a lot

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Speaker 2: of danger in the wounds becoming infected as they're healing.

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Speaker 2: So there are large portions of the medical system that

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Speaker 2: are dedicated solely to helping wound healing. There's lots of

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Speaker 2: devices that we have, there's lots of medications, there's lots

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Speaker 2: of techniques. There are wound care nurse specialists who have

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Speaker 2: expertise in helping that. But yes, there is a wide

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Speaker 2: variability and a lot of factors play into it for humans.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's so interesting to me because there is

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Speaker 1: also a lot of different strategies when you compare species.

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Speaker 1: So even within say mammals, right, different animals will use

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Speaker 1: different strategies for healing, including like say, superficial wounds, which

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Speaker 1: is we're going to focus mostly on superficial wounds. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think the medical terminology is booboos, so we're gonna

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Speaker 1: focus on booboos. And so even within species, though, different breeds,

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Speaker 1: like within a species, can sometimes have vastly different methods

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Speaker 1: of wound healing. So, for instance, ponies and horses, they're

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Speaker 1: different breeds within the same species, have very different healing

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Speaker 1: rates and methods. So ponies actually heal much faster than horses.

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Speaker 1: This is great validation for Broni's you pick the right horse,

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Speaker 1: they're really really fast healers. The ponies will deal with

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Speaker 1: wounds with something called wound contraction. The skin sort of

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Speaker 1: like cinching shut, like I don't know, like sealing off

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Speaker 1: a balloon or something. I'm trying to think of a

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Speaker 1: good analogy for it. But the wounds sort of contract.

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Speaker 1: So it's a technique that's really useful for wound healing

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Speaker 1: because it reduces the amount of surface area exposed to

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Speaker 1: bacteria and the amount of surface area that you have

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Speaker 1: to heal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't do that great on our own. That's

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Speaker 2: why we have stitches and butterfly tape and a whole

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Speaker 2: other host of mechanism to approximate the edges of a wound.

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Speaker 2: Although I will say again I'm not a booboologist, but

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Speaker 2: I will say that there are times when you don't

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Speaker 2: necessarily want to close off that wound right away. You

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Speaker 2: want to make sure it stays clean, and you want

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Speaker 2: to be able to debrid it. You want to be

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Speaker 2: able to get the bacteria out of it. But again,

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Speaker 2: that's humans, and it actually can I be totally honest

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Speaker 2: with you, Yes, I don't know if I said this

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Speaker 2: on the last time I was on the show. This

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Speaker 2: is really embarrassing, but it just goes to prove that really,

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Speaker 2: literally anyone can be a doctor. Is I didn't until

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Speaker 2: about a year ago, realized that ponies were not just

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Speaker 2: young horses.

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Speaker 1: M I do, well, they are little horses, yeah, but

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Speaker 1: I thought they were just like you thought they were.

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Speaker 1: They would keep going, they would keep growing.

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Speaker 2: I thought eventually a pony would become a horse.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, you know, I can see the mistake

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Speaker 1: because they are little ponies. But yeah, it's sort of

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Speaker 1: like the difference between a Great Dane and a Chihuahua.

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Speaker 1: Like the chihuahua is never gonna become a great day

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Speaker 1: no matter how much it wants and puts it up

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Speaker 1: on its vision board.

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Speaker 2: Well, I know it now I know that, like you know.

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Speaker 1: But it's the thing is like if when I'm selecting

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Speaker 1: a doctor and I have a serious issue, like it

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Speaker 1: doesn't really matter if they know that ponies are never

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Speaker 1: going to become horses, Like, that's not that's not gonna

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Speaker 1: help me necessarily.

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Speaker 2: Being vulnerable here with you and telling you the truth.

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Speaker 1: Right, And I'm reassured and I'm reassuring you that that

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Speaker 1: when I when I have a if I'm going into surgery,

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Speaker 1: like what I want to know is that they know,

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Speaker 1: you know, which leg to operate on, doesn't matter to me.

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Speaker 1: If they understand pony biology, I'm much better humans. Right,

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Speaker 1: that's good.

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Speaker 3: About that's generally good.

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Speaker 1: But speaking of pony biology, yeah, ponies heal a lot

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Speaker 1: faster than horses, which is really interesting. The skin is

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Speaker 1: drawn together faster, it heals faster. Horses have a weaker

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Speaker 1: inflammatory response. They are more dependent on a process called

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Speaker 1: I'm going to pronounce this the first time I do it.

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Speaker 1: Here we go re epithelialization. Does that sound right? Does

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Speaker 1: that sound.

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Speaker 2: It's a tough one. No, that's you said it right,

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Speaker 2: I stumble on it.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot. But that's as far as I understand,

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Speaker 1: and please do correct me if I'm wrong, as I

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Speaker 1: will correct you when you're wrong about ponies. It's like,

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Speaker 1: rather than sort of cinching the wound shut, it's building

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Speaker 1: a new surface layer of skin over the wound, kind

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Speaker 1: of like brick, laying over the wound with new skin,

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Speaker 1: like new skin cell turnover.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right. It's just placing more epithelium and lighting there.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly what it is.

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Speaker 1: Right, And so that's a slower process than the wound

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Speaker 1: contraction because essentially you're like repaving the entire skin area

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Speaker 1: versus sort of just pulling it taut drying it together

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Speaker 1: exactly exactly. And in general, animals that have looser skin,

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Speaker 1: so skin that is less connected to the structures underneath

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Speaker 1: the skin, rely more on wound contraction versus animals that

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Speaker 1: have skin that is more tightly he's he'd one, am

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Speaker 1: I trying to say tightly adhere to the underlying structures

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Speaker 1: like our skin like have you if you've ever noticed

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Speaker 1: an animal like if fly lands on them, they can

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Speaker 1: do that cool thing where their skin just twitches and

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Speaker 1: chases off the fly. We can't do that. Our skin

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Speaker 1: is too thick and it's too tightly secured to the

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Speaker 1: underlying structures. So we're not the best at doing that

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Speaker 1: wound contraction versus other animals.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it'd be weird. I mean, there are some theories

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Speaker 2: right about like hair human hair.

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Speaker 1: Oh, we're gonna get into that. We're getting into We're

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Speaker 1: getting into the hair get hairy, We're getting hairy. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: Because this is what's really interesting is that, in addition

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Speaker 1: to the various factors that may play a role in

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Speaker 1: faster wound healing in some animals versus others, like inflammatory response,

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Speaker 1: the amount of blood vessels in the skin, how firmly

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Speaker 1: attached the skin is to the muscle tissue, how thick

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Speaker 1: the skin is, et cetera. Even behavioral things such as grooming.

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Speaker 1: There is this question of like, well, why do we

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Speaker 1: heal slower than say, are really close relatives like chimpanzees,

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Speaker 1: Like it seems like we should have about the same

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Speaker 1: rate of healing, and yet chimpanzees and other apes primates

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Speaker 1: that were related to heal three times faster than us

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Speaker 1: on average. But yeah, so, like you pointed out, one

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Speaker 1: of the most notable things about humans compared to other

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Speaker 1: land mammals is our lack of fur, so we don't

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Speaker 1: have a lot of dense hair follicles, and each of

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Speaker 1: our hair are I mean definitely varies between individuals, but

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Speaker 1: for in general, when we're comparing ourselves to say other

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Speaker 1: primates or other mammals, our hair is less thick and

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Speaker 1: it's less dense. So, you know, research have found that

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Speaker 1: hairless rodents heal more slowly compared to rodents that have fur.

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Speaker 1: So that's a very interesting thing. It's again it's not

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Speaker 1: yet it's smoking gun though, right, because if you have

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Speaker 1: a hairless rodent, there's a whole bunch of other factors

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Speaker 1: that go into well, it's hairless, so maybe it's inflammatory

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Speaker 1: response is sort of a more sensitive in terms of

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Speaker 1: other things going on because it doesn't have this gene

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Speaker 1: for hair growth. There's a lot of potential factors. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: so when we look at us versus chimpanzees, the interesting

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Speaker 1: thing is that chimpanzees compared to say mandrels or baboons,

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Speaker 1: heal a lot about the same rate, and chimpanzees compared

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Speaker 1: to humans heal three times faster than us. But when

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Speaker 1: you look at hair density, like follicular density, uh, chimpanzees

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Speaker 1: and humans are about the same. That sounds weird, right,

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Speaker 1: because it's like, well, no, chimpanzees are way hairer than us.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean that the hair density is about

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Speaker 1: the same. It's that their hair is a lot thicker

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Speaker 1: and longer than us, so they have bigger hair follicles

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Speaker 1: than us, whereas we have we don't have anything.

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Speaker 3: We have the same nules.

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Speaker 2: Yes, they're okay.

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Speaker 1: They're bigger, yeah, exactly, so a similar number of hair

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Speaker 1: follicles differently distributed, but also their hair follicles are bigger.

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Speaker 1: So the idea is that potentially either having more hair

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Speaker 1: of fault, either having more hair follicles or having thicker

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Speaker 1: hair follicles could both be away that helps enhance wound

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Speaker 1: healing because of the presence of stem cells in the

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Speaker 1: hair follicles. So sort of this theory is that when

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Speaker 1: you have more hair follicles and or you have bigger

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Speaker 1: hair follicles, you're able to recruit more stem cells from

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Speaker 1: those hair follicles to help in wound healing.

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Speaker 2: As a Iranian male, I love where this conversation is

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Speaker 2: going because I like to believe that that makes me

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Speaker 2: a little bit more superhuman, right, Feeling wolverine was known

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Speaker 2: to be a very hairy mutant. That is the lore.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a here suit man.

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Speaker 2: That's very interesting. Now this is I'm sure way more

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Speaker 2: depth than is necessary for this. But where are these

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Speaker 2: stem cells? Are they sort of in the base of

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Speaker 2: the follicle and do they are they released down to

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Speaker 2: the skin around it? Like how is this working on

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Speaker 2: an anatomic level?

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Speaker 1: Like I don't Yeah, I don't know that they know

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Speaker 1: yet because they don't even know if this is how

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Speaker 1: why this is enhancing the wound healing? Right, Like the

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Speaker 1: the in terms of like the stem cells potentially migrat,

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Speaker 1: like where the stem cells are along the hair follicle.

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Speaker 1: I believe they are at the very sort of base

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Speaker 1: of the hair follicle where they're sort of going through

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Speaker 1: the whole hair growth cycle. Right, they have some undifferentiated

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Speaker 1: cells down there that then can be used to promote

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Speaker 1: this hair growth and you know, turn into hair cells.

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Speaker 1: But the in terms of how they would potentially be

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Speaker 1: say recruited in nearby tissue to help in mound healing,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, and I couldn't find research on it.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So someone please write

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Speaker 1: to me tell me I'm dumb. I'm always welcome that.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it's but it's also just not known for

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Speaker 1: sure if hair follicles are the sort of like magical reason,

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Speaker 1: the smoking gun of who heals better than others, but

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Speaker 1: it is. It is a very interesting idea, and it's

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Speaker 1: also kind of I really want to talk about he

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Speaker 1: humans sort of making this trade off for why aren't

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Speaker 1: we all that hairy, right, Like why did we lose

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Speaker 1: all of our hair? Seems like if these hair follicles

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Speaker 1: represent better wound healing, which we don't know yet, but

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Speaker 1: that's a theory. It just adds one more positive attribute

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Speaker 1: to having fur, right, Like, if you have fur, you

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Speaker 1: have a lot of hair. There's a lot of benefits.

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Speaker 1: There's a warmth, there's a protective layer, it's like armor.

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Speaker 1: There's also things like social signaling. Having different colored hair

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Speaker 1: can help signal like sexual maturity, it can help signal fitness.

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Speaker 1: So there's also the social aspect of grooming that is

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Speaker 1: present in primates that can be really really good for

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Speaker 1: cooperation within a group of apes. So there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of benefits to having hair, and yet we only have hair.

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Speaker 1: We do have hair all over our bodies actually.

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Speaker 2: Big for yourself, my friend. No, that is fascinating to

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Speaker 2: me because I always wonder that too. I'm like, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't really make that much sense you think that having

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Speaker 2: more body hair would be I mean, we take it

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Speaker 2: for granted because we wear clothing. We have to wear clothing,

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Speaker 2: that's our thing to stay warm in certain climates. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: what benefit do we get? Why are we And also,

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Speaker 2: I guess another question. I don't know if this is

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Speaker 2: evolutionary or if this is a social sort of question.

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Speaker 2: Why is less hair considered beautiful? Has that always been

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Speaker 2: the case? This might be like a more of an

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Speaker 2: anthropology question, like are there cultures in the past where

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Speaker 2: being her suit was considered more beautiful? Like, I mean,

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Speaker 2: there's been times in our current modern day world where

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Speaker 2: being hairy as a man, for example, has been good.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, like Gaston right, like remember right, he's covered

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Speaker 1: every inch of them is covered in hair, and the

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Speaker 1: ladies love it, and the men everyone, and the nbas.

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Speaker 2: I am what? I am curious? In general, I can't

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Speaker 2: think of any culture offhand where the it's been considered

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Speaker 2: a sign of beauty for women to be her suit,

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Speaker 2: which seems unfair, but I get, and maybe there is

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Speaker 2: one I just don't know. But I'm wondering why that is.

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Speaker 2: I'm wondering, like why we are as a society sort

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Speaker 2: of more and more over time trying to become less hairy,

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Speaker 2: Like what it is about us? If there's some inherent

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Speaker 2: biological need or desire to be less hairy, to be

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Speaker 2: less furry.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting. So I would say that the the human

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Speaker 1: like current human preference for less body hair is cultural,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's not something that is static throughout time.

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Speaker 1: Women shaving their underarms really only popped up, I think,

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Speaker 1: kind of in the nineteen around the nineteen twenties, and

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Speaker 1: that had to do with fashion changing, because all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, women were actually wearing clothing where you could

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Speaker 1: see your armpits and you could see some leg and

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Speaker 1: so at that point there was this kind of like

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Speaker 1: seeing armpit hair or leg hair as kind of a

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Speaker 1: weirdly like sexual thing, and so shaving was introduced as like, well,

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Speaker 1: this is good hygiene, right, you want to shave, you

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Speaker 1: want to be clean, so that it didn't have this

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Speaker 1: kind of like it may have sanitized a bit this

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Speaker 1: shift in women's fashion. You see it in also in

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Speaker 1: like Greek sculpture, where a lot of Greek sculpture would

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Speaker 1: have male body hair sculpted but no female body hair.

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Speaker 1: That didn't mean women were shaving a lot back in

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Speaker 1: ancient Greece. It actually was because a lot of sculptors

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Speaker 1: saw female body hair as an apparently sexual thing, right,

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Speaker 1: so they wouldn't want to represent it in sculptures. So

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Speaker 1: I would say, yes, today, our preference for doing a

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Speaker 1: lot of shaping. Sorry, a lot of what am I

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Speaker 1: trying to say a lot of landscaping is is more

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Speaker 1: of a modern preference based on some interesting cultural shifts,

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Speaker 1: based on fashion changes. So it's a it is. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't say, I can't think of any.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure it's not a biological imperative. It's

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Speaker 2: like men deciding what is beauty on some level. Like

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Speaker 2: it's funny that all these things they all kind of

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Speaker 2: come down to men, or not just men, but women

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Speaker 2: having to do the extra work, right A lot more well.

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Speaker 1: There is there is manscaping now. So I personally, I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm of the brand of feminism where it's like we

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Speaker 1: got to drag men down to you know, basically even

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Speaker 1: things out so we gotta make more maandscaping gottah, you know,

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Speaker 1: make pay win less, just pull you down to our

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Speaker 1: like crabs in a bucket. Now. But the one, the

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Speaker 1: one possible benefit to not having hair, both culturally right

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Speaker 1: like shaving, and in terms of our evolutionary history is parasites,

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Speaker 1: so ectoparasites, anything that would come and latch on, so

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Speaker 1: fleas and ticks. It's a much more hostile environment for

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Speaker 1: them if they don't have body hair, because for the ticks,

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Speaker 1: they can't really survive unless there's hair around them. They

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Speaker 1: would dry out too quickly, and for the ticks they

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Speaker 1: can they of course everyone's probably had some bad experience

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Speaker 1: with a tick, but you can find it much easier

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Speaker 1: if you're not covered in hair. And so, of course

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Speaker 1: we still have ectoparasites. We have demodecks which get into

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Speaker 1: our eyebrows. It's a tiny horrifying looking thing if you've

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Speaker 1: ever looked at it in a microscope. You have them

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Speaker 1: on you right now, and they're not They look like

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Speaker 1: sort of a monster from Dune. Not not great to

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Speaker 1: look at. They're mostly harmless, but you know, head lice,

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Speaker 1: pubic license are both things that we can have so

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Speaker 1: there is, but is it sc Scabies is something that

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Speaker 1: can affect the skin even when you don't have hair.

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Speaker 2: That's I'm sure that's true. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Bed bugs. Bed bugs also can like it's it often

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Speaker 1: you like the things that like. Things like bedbugs can

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Speaker 1: survive because they don't actually live on you. They bite you,

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Speaker 1: but they live in your bedding, which is super annoying.

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Speaker 1: So we do still have ectoparasites. But there is a

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Speaker 1: theory that by losing some of our hair, it made

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Speaker 1: it harder for parasites to latch onto us. That's another

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Speaker 1: sort of theory for why maybe grooming like pubic hair

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Speaker 1: or grooming beard hair may have gone in and out

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Speaker 1: of fashion. Maybe it followed some sort of like when

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Speaker 1: cities became more rife with, say, parasites. I'm not exactly sure.

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Speaker 1: I think that explains everything, both culturally and in terms

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Speaker 1: of evolution. The theory to me that makes the most

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Speaker 1: sense as to why human beings lost our hair as

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Speaker 1: actually thermal regulation, because we moved from more of a

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Speaker 1: kind of like a jungle habitat to the savannah, and

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Speaker 1: we had to change our method of living quite a

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Speaker 1: bit in order to do that, and one was that

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Speaker 1: if we're living out in the savannah where it's very

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Speaker 1: hot and we want to be able to eat anything

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Speaker 1: that can possibly outrun us, we need to be able

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Speaker 1: to thermoregulate and we need to be able to sweat.

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Speaker 1: So we potentially made a trade off where we instead

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Speaker 1: of having been covered in a bunch of hair, we

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Speaker 1: traded that hair for sweat glands. Because we can't any

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Speaker 1: organ This is true of any organism. You can't just

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Speaker 1: put infinity resources into everything, right. It's like when you're

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Speaker 1: making a character in I don't know, Oblivion or Baldersgate

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Speaker 1: or any kind of thing where you get the sliders

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Speaker 1: and you have to put points and stuff. That's basically

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Speaker 1: evolutionary biology where there's sliders right when you turn the

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Speaker 1: you know, the endocrine glands up and you have a

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Speaker 1: lot of sweat glands, you gotta push down the hairiness

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Speaker 1: slider of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. No, And I think it's been shown that people

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Speaker 2: who sweat right are tend to be a little bit

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Speaker 2: healthier overall. Like there is a study that I should

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Speaker 2: have looked this up before orient but like you know,

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Speaker 2: that showed the people who had a little bit more

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Speaker 2: sweat a little bit more freely and quicker. Actually tended

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Speaker 2: to have better exercise capacity, which makes sense for what

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Speaker 2: you're saying. Actually, completely my.

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Speaker 1: Personal experience is that's true. I'm not much. It's interesting.

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Speaker 1: I'm not much of a sweater when it comes to exercise.

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Speaker 1: If I'm nervous, like then I start sweating, which is

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Speaker 1: really useful. But yeah, I like, I basically don't start

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Speaker 1: to get over the hump, like if I'm hiking or

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Speaker 1: doing some intensive exercise, until after I find my body

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Speaker 1: finally catches on that, oh, I have to start sweating now,

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Speaker 1: and then I'm Actually it's like such a relief when

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Speaker 1: that happens, because then I feel better and I get

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Speaker 1: over this sort of like hump of like just not

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Speaker 1: just it's like I'm going to die, and then realizing

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Speaker 1: I'm actually fine, I'm nowhere near death.

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Speaker 2: I just well, this is where I again, this is

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Speaker 2: where I again am superhuman because I somehow man should

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Speaker 2: be both hairy and sweaty. So that's the.

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Speaker 1: Ideal human form.

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Speaker 2: I am this.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's peak peak human performance sweaty and hairy. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: so we potentially traded a lot of that hair. The

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Speaker 1: not just the hair density, because like I said, the

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Speaker 1: champanzees actually may have a similar number of hair follicles,

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Speaker 1: but we traded in the hair thickness for more sweat glands.

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Speaker 1: This is a theory. We we can't necessarily prove this,

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Speaker 1: but that to me is one of the more convincing ideas,

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Speaker 1: because there's other theories about like, well, we lost hair

404
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Speaker 1: on our faces so that we could use social signaling

405
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Speaker 1: like looking at people blushing or something, so we could

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Speaker 1: tell if someone's like happy with us or angry. And

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Speaker 1: I think that may have been a side benefit, right,

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Speaker 1: and it may have influenced say like facial hair patterns,

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Speaker 1: but I just don't think that would have been enough

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Speaker 1: to have us lose all of our hair. I think

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Speaker 1: the thermal regulation it makes a lot of sense in

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Speaker 1: terms of our evolutionary history from where we moved basically

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Speaker 1: from these essentially like seeing like the difference between humans

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Speaker 1: and a lot of primates is where we ended up

415
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Speaker 1: moving to the savannah and away from these these more

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Speaker 1: sort of like forest regions, although there are mandrils and

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Speaker 1: baboons that also do.

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Speaker 2: This, but it is really it makes more sense on

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Speaker 2: like a more basic level of what it does for

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Speaker 2: your survival chances. Yeah, I get that.

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Speaker 1: It's such a It's like, it's such a dramatic change

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Speaker 1: that it seems to me something dramatic like being able

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Speaker 1: to thermo regulate in an environment that is very hot

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Speaker 1: and hostile to something that cannot run effectively in the heat.

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Speaker 1: That makes a lot of sense to me. And so

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Speaker 1: we potentially lost our hair because of that, And so

427
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Speaker 1: it's interesting because also that the thermoregulation idea and losing

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Speaker 1: our hair may have actually resulted in our skin being

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Speaker 1: a bit thicker. Our skin is actually thicker than a

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Speaker 1: lot of primates, and one of the potential reasons for

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Speaker 1: that is without hair, now we don't have that armor,

432
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 1: so we kind of have to make up for it

433
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: by having thicker skin. And then ironically, another theory is

434
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 1: that with this thicker skin, that actually makes wound healing harder,

435
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 1: so you can There's just so many odd trade offs

436
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: that happen with evolution, and these theories really show how

437
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: tricky it is, because you know, what do weigh better

438
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: the ability to heal or to not be injured in

439
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 1: the first place, And how do you kind of weigh

440
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: both of those things and have them come into balance

441
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: for an organism to be successful.

442
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 2: Yeah that I have to say. I'm surprised to learn

443
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 2: that our skin might be thicker than that of other primates.

444
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 2: But yeah, wondering like, have.

445
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 1: You ever tried to insult a chimpanzee?

446
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 2: They really roll with it. Yeah, give them credit. I mean,

447
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 2: not great at roasting though, they don't seem to get it,

448
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 2: but they do take a joke.

449
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: Well huh yeah, yeah, I don't know. I I personally

450
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 1: don't want to insult a gorilla. I don't want to

451
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: see what happens. They're generally nice.

452
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 2: But did you weigh in on the one hundred men

453
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 2: versus you know, one gorilla thing? Have you? I'm assuming

454
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 2: you've covered this at Nauvoom.

455
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: I mean, do the men like, do they have is

456
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: this a is it one man at a time? Do

457
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: they have weapons? Are they wearing the armor?

458
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 2: No, it's one hundred naked men. Okay, wine, well groom

459
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 2: didn't clothed gorilla, all right, I have details.

460
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: One hundred naked men. I mean, okay, so obviously I

461
00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: think the men went in this situation. I think that

462
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: it's gonna be. It's the it's gonna be sort of

463
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: like the It's sort of like bees versus murder hornets,

464
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: where the bees surround the murder hornets and wiggle until

465
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: the murder hornets die and some bees may be lost

466
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: in the process. This is how I imagine one hundred

467
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: naked men versus a gorilla. They dog pile the gorilla.

468
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: Of course, some of them are going to valiantly lose

469
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: their lives in the great gorilla battle. I'm also wondering, though,

470
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: It's just like, but why gorilla is generally very nice, right,

471
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: I mean, they're actually quite chill.

472
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 2: That is really, that is really the question is why

473
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 2: are you thinking about this? Leave these poor gorillas alone,

474
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 2: them alone, relatively non violent primates, and let them do

475
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 2: the thing. I think exactly. I'm assuming it's a they're

476
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 2: being attacked. They're the ones being attacked, and they're defending themselves.

477
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: In this scenario, the men are the gorilla. The gorilla

478
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: glas being attacked. Yeah, I would assume that too.

479
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 2: I don't think the girl is starting the melee against

480
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 2: the hundred.

481
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 1: I don't yeah, I don't think. Yeah. I think gorillas

482
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: are too focused on leaf and termite to do that.

483
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: You know, they just want to hang out and do

484
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: leaf and termite, and men are going like writing on

485
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: Twitter or whatever, going like I think I could beat

486
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: a gorilla.

487
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 2: Guess what.

488
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: The girl is not even thinking about you, man, girl

489
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: is not even thinking about you.

490
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 2: That's so sad. It's true. We're humans are the only

491
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 2: species that would take the time to yeh about this.

492
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, there they're out. They're living their best

493
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: life while we're seething online. So keep that in mind.

494
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and when we

495
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: get back, we're going to talk about a tiny deadpool.

496
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: This is really interesting to me because when I was

497
00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: reading this, this report on this new review of the studies, like,

498
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: I couldn't help but think of one of my favorite

499
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: little freaks of nature, which is the spiny mouse, which

500
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: is such a strange Anneal, have you ever heard of

501
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 1: this cave?

502
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 2: I have not heard of the spiny mouse. No, so.

503
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: We have talked about this on the show before, but

504
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: it bears repeating if you haven't heard that episode. It also,

505
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: I think is just so relevant because it's such an

506
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: interesting connection to everything we've been talking about, the wound healing,

507
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: the loose skin, the presence of hair. So there is

508
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: this it's a genus, so there's multiple species within it.

509
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: It's these adorable little mice called spiny mice. They're more

510
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: closely related to durbils than to the house mouse, but

511
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: they look very much like mice.

512
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 2: I'm looking at a picture of them now, very cute.

513
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 2: They almost look like the kangaroo, rat or something. They

514
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 2: have a little longer nose than I expected, small nutsing spines,

515
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 2: the spine, the aspect.

516
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: Of this they have. It's more. They should be called

517
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: bristle mice, but I guess nobody put me in charge

518
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: of naming things. They should. But you know, they you know,

519
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: all right, But they have guard hairs that are coarser

520
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: and a little bit sturdier. So their guard hairs make

521
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: them less appealing of a prey versus maybe a little

522
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: rodent who has soft hairs. It's just like it hasn't

523
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: reached the level of say like a porcupine or a hedgehog,

524
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: where those those hairs have become really hard in stuff

525
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: such that they really hurt and they can really pokey good.

526
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: These ones, the bristles are unpleasant for predator and kind

527
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: of pokey like if you've ever like with a hair

528
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: brush or you know, something like or a piece of wheat,

529
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: you know, like or grass or something, and you kind

530
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 1: of sticks on your hand. You're like, ah, it's not

531
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: a great feeling, but it's not like hurry.

532
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 2: So that's.

533
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: If I'm really hungry, I'm eating a hairbrush. Yeah, exactly.

534
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 2: So.

535
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: So spiny mice are found in African deserts. They are

536
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: these amazingly cute little guys. And then it just turns

537
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: into this like horror show, which is that they have

538
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: this cool trick if they do get caught, which is

539
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: just letting their skin fall off, so they will wiggle around,

540
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: and the strength of which their skin clings to the

541
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: underlying structure is much weaker than other rodents and much

542
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: much weaker than like most other animals. So if you know,

543
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: if you're like kind of holding the skin of this

544
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: mouth and it's like wiggling it around, that skin just

545
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: pops right off at a certain point. Yeah, and it's

546
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: this is not this is not a mistake. This is

547
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: a feature, not a bug, because this is essentially giving

548
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: them a chance to escape. So the predator gets like

549
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 1: a fistful of hair and skin and it's like, Okay,

550
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 1: I have something, and the mouse gets away. And so

551
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 1: the question though, is now that it has this huge,

552
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: gaping wound on its body, because it's skin just popped off,

553
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 1: what does it do right. It seems like this would

554
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: be a terrible strategy because now you're wounded, you risk infections.

555
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: It's really nasty. Within a single day, that wound has

556
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 1: already clotted, scabbed over, and the surface area has been reduced.

557
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 1: Using that we talked about, that wound contraction method of

558
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: just sort of the wound cinching shut, it has already

559
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 1: contracted by over half of the surface area that was

560
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,919
Speaker 1: exposed is now reduced by half. That's the first day

561
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 1: of healing. In three days, new skin has already grown

562
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: over the wound, including follicle regeneration, and even parts of

563
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: their bodies that normally mammals in general can't heal very well,

564
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 1: like ear cartilage, which doesn't heal very well. That's one

565
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: of the reason we can do piercings right and keep

566
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: that hole in our ear. Those their ears can actually

567
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: completely regrow, which is wild.

568
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 2: This is fascinating, especially because so it sounds like these

569
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 2: spiny mice live in the desert and that's you're losing

570
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 2: your skin along with the infection you're mentioning also just

571
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 2: the risk of dehydration. Yes, your skin helps you maintain

572
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,320
Speaker 2: that hydration to lose that. I mean, it seems like

573
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 2: such a counterintuitive skill set for an animal living out

574
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 2: there to have. That's amazing.

575
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's something where yes, they could still die,

576
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 1: but they will definitely die if they're caught by a

577
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 1: predator and eaten. And so it's it's this trade off

578
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:14,439
Speaker 1: where their chance of survival seems to increase by having

579
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: this like disconnectable skin, and then they compensate for all

580
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: these risks by having this incredible healing process unlike anything

581
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 1: we really see in other mammals. So and yeah, so

582
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 1: like essentially, in order to help protect them from that

583
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: massive dehydration, they're sensing that moonshet as quickly as possible,

584
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: reducing the surface area that's exposed to evaporation, exposed to bacteria.

585
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 1: Uh and then yeah, immediately kind of like putting like

586
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 1: they're sinching it. They're using the Okay, I'm gonna get

587
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 1: this re epithelialization. Did they do that? You get it? Great?

588
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 1: Kay pronunciation? So uh, yeah, they they regenerate that really

589
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: quickly and amazingly though. Not only are they fast, they

590
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 1: don't generate a lot of scar tissues, so they actually

591
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 1: have this kind of loose collagen matrix that matches the

592
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 1: other tissues. So you'd think like they would just kind

593
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: of you know, I compared them to Deadpool. They're actually

594
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: way better than Deadpool because of it. Instead of Ryan

595
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 1: Reynolds basically having sort of like this patchwork face where

596
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: he's still handsome but he looks kind of sunburned, but

597
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: he's supposed to look really grotesque, they the.

598
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,439
Speaker 2: Most beautiful man in the world.

599
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's yeah, they didn't, you know. It's sort of

600
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 1: one of those things.

601
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 3: All yeah, look at.

602
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,919
Speaker 1: Me, I'm unlovable. I'm Ryan Reynolds with a bad subburn. Yeah,

603
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,439
Speaker 1: come on, guy. Anyways, but yeah, these mice, actually they're

604
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 1: more I should say, they're more like Wolverine. Right, he's

605
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 1: got the regeneration, right, I'm getting that. Please, I don't

606
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: want to be attacked.

607
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 2: I will sidetrack this whole episode and to extended detail

608
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 2: on the Wolverine weaponex lore. But yes, you are right.

609
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 2: They both share a similar, if not the exact same

610
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 2: regenerator properties.

611
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 1: Right, all right, it's only a short period of time

612
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: where they do look kind of gnarly because like their

613
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: skin just pops off in big chunks, which is, you know,

614
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: a little bit of a nightmare. But yeah, So they

615
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: are able to regenerate hair, follicles, epidermis, dermis, sweat glands,

616
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 1: fat cells, nerves, muscles, cartilage, and they even have some

617
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 1: evidence that they can regenerate parts of spinal nerves that

618
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: are really difficult for say, other mammals to regenerate. Right, Like,

619
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 1: when we have a spinal energy, it does not regenerate

620
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 1: very well.

621
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 2: No, this is fascinating to me, and I have the

622
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 2: sinking fear that you're going to follow this up by

623
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 2: saying that we have almost driven it to extinction and

624
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 2: will never be able to stay to learn about how

625
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 2: we as humans could benefit from this.

626
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: No, we're actually studying, like this is one of the

627
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 1: rare cases where we are studying it and it's not

628
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: it's it doesn't seem to be a near extinction.

629
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 2: It's fantastic because this is amazing. I'm just thinking about

630
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 2: all the potential benefits from it. You're exactly right, Like

631
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 2: just in terms of burn patients, in terms of patients

632
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 2: with neurologic damage, nerve damage. To find as many ways

633
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 2: possible as we can to learn to regenerate those things

634
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 2: which are very difficult, as many options and as angles

635
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 2: we can find is fascinating. What's also fascinating to me

636
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 2: is when I did google it once you started talking

637
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 2: about it and spiny mouse comes up, the first question

638
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: it offers to answer for you is why do spiny

639
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 2: mice ment straight? I don't know why that is of

640
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 2: all the things that we're talking about.

641
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: I mean, as as far as I know, they probably

642
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 1: amin straight in this for the same reason every.

643
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 2: Every y mammal, unsuccessful pregnancy results into crosis, the shedding

644
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 2: of the functional layer of the uterus, the endometrium. So

645
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 2: I don't don't know why for the spike be bouse.

646
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: Fastening. There must but that must be that some that

647
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 1: feels like it's too deep of a cut for like

648
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: random people to be doing. There's got to be some

649
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,879
Speaker 1: like research intern who's like, wait, why is this dying

650
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 1: thing menstruating all the time. I'm trying to study it.

651
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 2: A lot, just view.

652
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: Yeah that's wild. So yeah, I mean it's it's it's

653
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 1: really amazing. It's healing ability is really amazing. So a

654
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: couple of things are really interesting about this Uh. It

655
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: also demonstrates a better cardiac healing than other mouse species,

656
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: which again is very interesting. And so there's a few

657
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: things going on with this mouse. I mean, let me

658
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 1: preface it by saying, I don't know, and I don't

659
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 1: think anyone knows exactly what's going going on with the

660
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 1: spiny mouse. It's mostly this sort of conjecture because they're

661
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 1: working on research and hopefully at some point we will

662
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: know more about them. But one of the things with

663
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,839
Speaker 1: the spiny mice is that when you look at their skin, right,

664
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,879
Speaker 1: they have really loose skin. So, like we talked about

665
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 1: in the first part of the show, where you got

666
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 1: loose skin, it's easier to kind of synch that up

667
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: like a draw string bag and do a wound contraction.

668
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 1: But they also have a really high density of hair follicles,

669
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 1: and they have really thick hair follicles. So they've got

670
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 1: like everything going on that we've talked about earlier in

671
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: terms of animals that have faster wound healing, right, loose skin,

672
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: a lot of hair, and thick hair. But that obviously

673
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily explain everything, right, because if they have faster

674
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: cardiac healing. It's hard for me to imagine by what

675
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 1: process their skin would help in that, right, Like I

676
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: suppose there could be some weird migration of stem cells

677
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: from the skin to cardiac tissue, but I don't. I

678
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: have never heard of anything like that.

679
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,800
Speaker 2: It's probably a separate mechanism, but how it's related is interesting.

680
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 2: What there are cells that line, you know, your cardiac

681
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 2: the cardiac lining. I mean, I guess when you talk

682
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 2: about cardiac healing, I mean, what does that mean. Are

683
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 2: they like injuring the heart or are they doing what

684
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,280
Speaker 2: humans do, which is like they plug up the arteries

685
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 2: and then see if they can re epitheliize that or

686
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 2: if there can be like new vasculature that forms, because

687
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 2: what could I've done really just hand waving here, But

688
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 2: you know, I'm wondering if what they're showing is that

689
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 2: there is a growth of vasculature to feed blood vessels

690
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 2: to the rest of the heart if one is injured,

691
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 2: for example, because that could make sense. That could be

692
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 2: like stem cell active, causing more or hyper vascularization of

693
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 2: the tissue of the heart. So that's fascinating. I mean,

694
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 2: I would love to know about what they're actually doing

695
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 2: in regards to these studies, how they're studying this. I mean,

696
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 2: because it sounds like we could learn not only the

697
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 2: skin stuff, not only the wound healing, not only nerve damage,

698
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 2: but we could also learn how to heal scarred cardiac

699
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 2: tissue potentially from these animals.

700
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe it does have something to do with

701
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: the revascularization around the heart. I think it might also

702
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 1: have some ability to tolerate, say like heart attacks, and

703
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: to heal the heart tissue after like an schema schemic event.

704
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 1: I hope I'm saying that.

705
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 2: Yeah right, yeah event, Yeah, blood flow.

706
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,360
Speaker 1: Right exactly, So damaged heart tissue as well as potentially

707
00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:00,399
Speaker 1: healing more of the blood vessels. It might be sort

708
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: of both things. They can't regenerate the tissue in the

709
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 1: same way that they can regenerate their skin tissue. It's

710
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,800
Speaker 1: not like you can they can just like completely damage

711
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: to the heart and then regrow the heart like they

712
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 1: can with their skin. So it's there's definitely some separate

713
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 1: process going on. Another interesting aspect to the mices, when

714
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 1: they look at one thing they do understand a little

715
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,959
Speaker 1: better is their their ear healing is they can see

716
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: that they form again, really hoping I nail the pronunciation

717
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: of this. I think it's called a blastema, which is

718
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:39,760
Speaker 1: like this this cluster of undifferentiated cells like stem cells

719
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 1: that form sort of this glob, and then from that

720
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: glob it can start like you know, sit like these

721
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,760
Speaker 1: little undifferentiated cells move on out and start rebuilding whatever

722
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,919
Speaker 1: tissue is needed in that area. And so you see

723
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: similar actually similar structures in say salamander limbs, where salamanders

724
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 1: can rea grow entire limbs, and so they also have

725
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 1: a similar like it's just a blob of undifferentiated cells

726
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 1: them forms in the area and then basically sends out

727
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,800
Speaker 1: like different units like Okay, you go over here and

728
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: then you figure out like hey, I need to be

729
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 1: this kind of tissue cell and then develops into it

730
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 1: and then it can regrow entire limbs that way.

731
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,919
Speaker 2: You know. I've heard about that with lizards that they're

732
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 2: in going back to Marvel Lore doctor Connor's and the

733
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 2: lizard and how he regrows his arm but becomes a monster,

734
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 2: But I haven't heard about it much with mammals. I mean,

735
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 2: in warm blooded creatures. Are there other mammals that can

736
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 2: have the same sort of regenerative growth.

737
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 1: I mean, most mammals can to some extent have regenerative growth,

738
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 1: but we can't do entire limbs. Don't know of any

739
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 1: mammal that can regrow an entire limb, uh it has

740
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 1: we we can partially regrow things though, right like, so

741
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 1: with this spiny mice them regrowing entire skin structures is

742
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 1: pretty similar. That's maybe they're may be the most similar

743
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 1: when you can compare mammals to salamanders, to lizards, but

744
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 1: even like people, right like, if you it depends on

745
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: like we can regrow structures to some extent, it just

746
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 1: really the point at which you can chop an arm

747
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 1: off for a human being to regrow is basically just

748
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 1: the very tippy tippy tips of our fingers, right like,

749
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 1: we can regrow a little bit of our fingertips, but

750
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 1: any any further down where we can't. We can't handle that.

751
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:50,959
Speaker 1: Whereas uh, salamanders essentially just have a much higher higher

752
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 1: tolerance for having their limb regrowth start at like being

753
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 1: able to have that limb bud essentially reform and then

754
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: start developed being a new limb, which we cannot and

755
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 1: other mammals cannot.

756
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 2: Do what a bummer.

757
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: I know, it would be great. I I wanna, I

758
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 1: wanna have that ability. But I'd like it to be

759
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: where you not only grow like a new limb, but

760
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 1: like maybe an extra one. So every time you get hurt,

761
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 1: like you get like a little hand that comes out

762
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: of like that injury. That would be so cool.

763
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:29,800
Speaker 2: You have to buy a new wardrobe like all the

764
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 2: time though.

765
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then imagine all the snacks you could hold

766
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,280
Speaker 1: in all the little hands that you have. Now fair,

767
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:43,879
Speaker 1: I think about this a lot. Yeah, yeah, So yeah,

768
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: we got we got weird mice that are growing their skin,

769
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: which could be uh if we player cards right which

770
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,399
Speaker 1: right now we don't seem to be, but it could

771
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 1: be if we research them more, they may help us

772
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: understand our own uh slow heat healing process and maybe

773
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 1: how we can improve healing both boo boos and heart booboos.

774
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 3: Yeah cardio.

775
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:11,720
Speaker 1: Sorry, the scientific term is cardiac booboo.

776
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean, don't embarrass me in front of

777
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 2: my doctor friends. That is what we call it. I know,

778
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 2: I think that is That's fascinating. Again. One thing I

779
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 2: love about coming on the show is just being introduced

780
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 2: to these these animals that have all the the in

781
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:37,439
Speaker 2: vivo studies we could want right there, Yeah, to learn

782
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,919
Speaker 2: more about ourselves, Like, I think it's a great way. Two,

783
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 2: it's a great way to build the science is to

784
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 2: to learn about these animals, you know, of course in

785
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 2: an ethical way, and you know too, to learn a

786
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 2: little bit more about their healing process and how different

787
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 2: things can be. It's just nothing else. It opens up

788
00:48:57,320 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 2: our minds to the possibilities of what we could be

789
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 2: doing with humans. I think that's really fun. It's really

790
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 2: fun because if you get so as doctors, we get

791
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,839
Speaker 2: so like at some point locked into what we can

792
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 2: do and what we do know and what happens currently

793
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 2: with the human body. It requires people thinking outside of

794
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,400
Speaker 2: the box like this, to be like, Okay, what is

795
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 2: this animal doing that's different, and then someone to take

796
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 2: that information and to eventually work multiple steps, obviously to

797
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 2: the point where how can this benefit us? Which I

798
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,240
Speaker 2: know makes me sound like a monster. I do love animals,

799
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 2: even if they can't help us. But I think it's

800
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 2: really exciting. It's really exciting to another great reason why

801
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 2: we need to be doing research.

802
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 1: Because I mean, I'm not an I'm not a vegetarian,

803
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: So the idea that I would make draw the line

804
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 1: at doing animal research as long as it's you know,

805
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:56,359
Speaker 1: done humanely, right that it's you know, I don't need

806
00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 1: to eat meat, but I think help people with survive

807
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 1: heart attacks and stuff is very important. Yeah.

808
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really exciting. It's really fun to yeah, to

809
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 2: see that and to be like this, to keep thinking

810
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 2: of new possibilities. A lot of that the animals are fantastic.

811
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, and I mean hopefully also gives us more

812
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 1: incentive to Like you said, even though the spiny mouse,

813
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 1: there could be some species that are in trouble. I

814
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 1: don't actually know if there are any that are endangered,

815
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 1: but certainly a lot of species are not endangered. But

816
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 1: I think it just when we keep our natural ecosystems functioning,

817
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 1: and there's just like an incredible library of genetic knowledge

818
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: that is completely irreplaceable, right. Like we've talked about this

819
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 1: before actually when I had you on, Like we talked

820
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 1: about the gas rooting frog, this frog that has this

821
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:55,320
Speaker 1: amazing ability not to kill its own offspring that it

822
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 1: has in its stomach and somehow its stomach acid doesn't

823
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 1: burn through its own offspring. And just the fact that

824
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: that went extinct and we don't have that incredible sort

825
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 1: of like you imagine if these spiny mice went extinct,

826
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:13,879
Speaker 1: right like this, this incredible ability that this animal has,

827
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a I think it's it is something

828
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:20,359
Speaker 1: that really it's a good way to be humbled too,

829
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:23,280
Speaker 1: that like, look, humans are great, we're very very smart,

830
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 1: but we can't just regrow a huge chunks of our

831
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: skin in like three days. We can't lose like sixty

832
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: percent of our skin and then regrow it and be okay.

833
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 1: So yeah, just respecting these little guys.

834
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:41,759
Speaker 2: I mean, and we talked about this last time too.

835
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 2: It is one of those things where I could easily

836
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:47,800
Speaker 2: see some politician saying, can you believe that we're spending

837
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 2: a million dollars to keep a mouse alive in this environment?

838
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 2: In you were like, yeah, there's a really good reason

839
00:51:57,480 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 2: for that. There's a really good reason. It may not

840
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 2: be obvious right away, but research is always good, you know,

841
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 2: learning good research is always good for us. So whether

842
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 2: or not it's obvious initially right away or not, it is.

843
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 2: I'm sure whoever started looking at the desert mouse, I'm sorry,

844
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 2: not the spiny mouse didn't know at first all the

845
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 2: potential benefits of what it can do or what it

846
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:27,320
Speaker 2: can be, and they just start studying it because they're interested.

847
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 2: And now we know it can do these remarkable things.

848
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:34,720
Speaker 1: So yeah, grant writers, just just include in your grant

849
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:39,840
Speaker 1: somewhere that this might help the libido of aging white

850
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 1: men in Congress and you know that's there. You go,

851
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 1: funding that's it.

852
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:48,319
Speaker 2: All right.

853
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:49,839
Speaker 1: Before we go, we got to play a little game

854
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 1: called Guests, Who's Squawk and the Men the Mystery Animal

855
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:55,759
Speaker 1: Sound Game. Every week I play a mystery animal sound

856
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 1: in you the guests, and you the listener, try to

857
00:52:57,560 --> 00:52:59,839
Speaker 1: guess who is making this sound. It could be any

858
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,839
Speaker 1: animal in the world. Last week's Mister Animals sound hint

859
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 1: was this found in eastern North America. You might find

860
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 1: this little guy boogie wogging, and who can blame him

861
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 1: with a call like this? Okay, here we go. Oh yeah, god,

862
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 1: I love this guy. Okay, Oh it's so cute. Favorite

863
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 1: bird call the bird? Okay, Oh I dang, this is

864
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 1: a first. I've never accidentally given a hint. I didn't

865
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 1: mean to, but yes it is a bird.

866
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:43,320
Speaker 2: So there you go.

867
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: Hint to new hint because I can't keep my mouth shut.

868
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 1: But yeah, this ahe is so cute. COVID, you got

869
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 1: any guesses for this adorable little sound?

870
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 2: Is that this week's or last week?

871
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 1: So that you're playing that's last week's that I'm flu fun.

872
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 2: It's okay. It's a bird and as like a little squeak,

873
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 2: and I think blue jays are squeaky. Is it a

874
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 2: blue jay?

875
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:07,759
Speaker 1: No?

876
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 2: What is it?

877
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 1: It is the American woodcock. So congratulations to Chad F.

878
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 1: Max and Laura W. Who guessed correctly. American woodcocks. Uh

879
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 1: kind of you gotta google it. They're so cute they

880
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 1: they make. In addition to that adorable little pink sound,

881
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:35,839
Speaker 1: they have these cute little bodies and they have long

882
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:39,520
Speaker 1: beaks that are way too big for their tininess. But

883
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 1: another thing that they do that is just so adorable

884
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 1: is they like to rock back and forth on the ground.

885
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: And if you've seen like a gift of a weird

886
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 1: little bird doing what looks like the boogie woogie, that's

887
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 1: an American woodcock because they and one of the theories

888
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:57,759
Speaker 1: for why they do this is that they're trying to

889
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 1: coax earthworms up out of the ground, essentially by mimicking

890
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: the vibrations of rain on the ground, which for worms

891
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,759
Speaker 1: would be bad news because when it rains, they come

892
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 1: out of the ground because they can drown if they

893
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 1: stay in the soil. And so wow, one of the

894
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 1: one of the theories, like, there are a few theories

895
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 1: about why they do this, and this is one of them.

896
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:21,800
Speaker 1: And my favorite one is that they're doing this to

897
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 1: try to coax worms up out of the ground with

898
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 1: their little boogie woggeeing dance. It's adorable. They're so cute, very.

899
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 2: Poly trees of them.

900
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:35,799
Speaker 1: It's like very like exactly if you walk with if

901
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:38,280
Speaker 1: you walk with rhythm, you will attract the worm.

902
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:43,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. All right, let me let me let me

903
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 2: hear the wine for next week. I think I'm gonna

904
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 2: get this.

905
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yes, ah yeah, all right. So the

906
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:54,320
Speaker 1: hint for this week's the ceria sound is this. This

907
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 1: fierce little carnivore is like a wolf that you can

908
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 1: fit in your pocket. All right. Can you hear that.

909
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 2: Very high pitched sound.

910
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:13,320
Speaker 1: You do not need to adjust your headphones. It is

911
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 1: that thing that sounds like something is wrong.

912
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:20,880
Speaker 3: With the audio, guess, and it's wolf like.

913
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 1: I'll just repeat the hint. It is that this fierce

914
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 1: little carnivore is like a wolf that you can fit

915
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:30,840
Speaker 1: in your pocket.

916
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 2: Okay, here one more time.

917
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 1: They hear it in a sentence, the sentences.

918
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 2: And then wolf. Okay, do you know what I think?

919
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 2: That's a trick question. I think it's a wolf spider

920
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 2: and somehow making the squeaky sound, which I don't know

921
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 2: spiders can make a sound. That's between that and my

922
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 2: pony reference. I think I have out of myself as

923
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:02,760
Speaker 2: someone doesn't know much about any animals.

924
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:07,040
Speaker 1: That's an amazing guest. There are spiders who can make sounds,

925
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:08,720
Speaker 1: so that is not a bad guess.

926
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,280
Speaker 2: At all, but it's not correct.

927
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 1: Fine, I can't tell you. Okay, no spoilers because you

928
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:20,080
Speaker 1: got to wait until next week when I answer who

929
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 1: is making that sound? And if you out there think

930
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 1: you know who that is, you can write to me

931
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 1: at Creature feature Pod at gmail dot com. That's right,

932
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 1: you can compete directly head to head with an actual

933
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 1: medical doctor. Tell your friends Kevin, thank you so much

934
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 1: for joining me today.

935
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much for having me. I always

936
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 2: learned so much when I come on the show. It's

937
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 2: so much fun. I really have in the recent months

938
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 2: to year has really been trying to learn as much

939
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 2: as I can about stuff because I feel like it

940
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 2: keeps me young when I do. I'm trying to like

941
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 2: reignite my love of education and learning, and this show

942
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 2: is such a great way to do that. So I

943
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 2: really appreciate that. Thanks for having me on and thanks

944
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:06,919
Speaker 2: for doing the show.

945
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. Where can people find you?

946
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 2: I am on a podcast called The House of Pod.

947
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 2: It is a humor adjacent, fun little medical podcast. You'll

948
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 2: hear lots of people come on the show, from Peter

949
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 2: Hotez and other world renowned infectious disease doctors and specialist

950
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 2: physicians of all kinds, to musicians like Portugal de man

951
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 2: or comedians like mos Er Browny or amazing podcast host

952
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 2: Slash and well behavior offficionados like Katie Golden, who's going

953
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:43,120
Speaker 2: to be on as we speak, is on this week's episode.

954
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:44,960
Speaker 2: By the time you hear this, it will be last week's.

955
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 2: So go back and.

956
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 1: Listen to that's right, cross politics, cross pollination people.

957
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 2: That's right. So you'll if you like this show, we're

958
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 2: sort of in a similar vein but more human y,

959
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 2: and I promise I know more about human bodies than

960
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:03,200
Speaker 2: to animals. So but you're gonna like it. It's a

961
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,600
Speaker 2: similar vibe. It's like, you know, let's wear animals too.

962
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 2: So if you like animals.

963
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 1: Exactly, as long as you stick to human doctoring and

964
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 1: you don't do pony doctoring, then you should be fine.

965
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 2: But I.

966
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 1: I highly recommend the podcast. I actually, when I have

967
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 1: to fly, like say, I'm visiting my family back in

968
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 1: the US, that's one of my go to things to

969
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 1: load up on my phone so I can just listen

970
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 1: and learn stuff about medicine. But it's not intimidating because.

971
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:36,840
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not not intimidating.

972
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're not intimidating. I know what were until, right,

973
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: So if you're if you're interested in medical topics and

974
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 1: you're curious about stuff and you want to learn in

975
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 1: a fun, friendly way, highly recommend that podcast.

976
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

977
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 1: Thank you guys for listening to the show. If you

978
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: leave writing a review, I read every single one. Appreciate

979
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 1: all the reviews. Thank to the Space Classics for their

980
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:05,040
Speaker 1: super awesome song. Ex Alumina. Creature features a production of iHeartRadio.

981
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 1: For more podcasts like the one you just heard, visit

982
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:09,440
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio, app Apple podcasts are you guess what?

983
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 2: Where?

984
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:12,240
Speaker 1: Have you listen to your favorite shows? I'm not your mother.

985
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:14,520
Speaker 1: I can't tell you what to do. But don't go

986
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 1: out there and try to get bit by a radioactive

987
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 1: spiny mouse. You're just probably gonna get real sick, mostly

988
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 1: from the radiation and maybe a little bit from the

989
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 1: mouse bite. So don't do that. We can all be.

990
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:31,040
Speaker 1: We can't all be Peter Parker. Some of us just

991
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:35,320
Speaker 1: get mad mouse tumors. So don't do that, all right, everybody,

992
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:36,440
Speaker 1: see you next Wednesday.