Speaker 1: This is Let's Be Clear with Shannon Doorny. Hey, I'm
Speaker 1: Shannon Dohorty. Welcome to another episode of Let's Be Clear. Today,
Speaker 1: I am joined by a very good friend, producer, screenwriter,
Speaker 1: and film director, oh James Scoland pres.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I had to, Okay, I'm.
Speaker 3: Just I'm also laughing because I'm like, you know, you're
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm Shannon's friend. I guess I do all
Speaker 3: these other things.
Speaker 2: But I'm like, you know, I know, but you do
Speaker 2: do all those No, but it.
Speaker 3: Was, it was it was weird hearing you say it. It
Speaker 3: was I know, because yeah, I mean we did. We
Speaker 3: did blood leg when I was twenty one years old
Speaker 3: and I turned thirty two. Wow, I turned thirty. So
Speaker 3: we're talking eleven years.
Speaker 2: I can't believe we put up with each other for
Speaker 2: eleven years.
Speaker 3: I know we've only had like one significant fight. What
Speaker 3: was the fight you left me in the middle of
Speaker 3: the desert.
Speaker 2: You deserved it. I did it, and it was a joke.
Speaker 3: It was, but it totally like what a little further
Speaker 3: than funny, well for you, total for me.
Speaker 2: I kept myself laughing totally.
Speaker 3: I know you were totally laughing It's basically. What I
Speaker 3: remember is like I was, I was driving you home
Speaker 3: from set. Right we were in Arizona, uh huh, and
Speaker 3: you were we were driving down this like road in
Speaker 3: the middle of the desert.
Speaker 2: Back way up. It was for a movie for a movie.
Speaker 3: Yes, a movie that I was producing, that you were
Speaker 3: acting in.
Speaker 2: And what was it called.
Speaker 3: I don't even remember.
Speaker 2: Something about the devil, something about the devil, And I
Speaker 2: played the devil.
Speaker 3: You played the devil.
Speaker 1: And some people right now are like, whoa, that's sitting
Speaker 1: and I'm like to those people, I'm like, turn it off.
Speaker 3: We we have this like playful dynamic the whole time
Speaker 3: because we were friends and stuff, and you know, we
Speaker 3: were joking around a lot. We were playing you know,
Speaker 3: we we we wrote the script together to have some
Speaker 3: add some comedy to your role and stuff. And I
Speaker 3: remember we're driving back. I'm driving you like we're in
Speaker 3: the middle of like no, there's no like lamp posts,
Speaker 3: there's no like lights or anything. It's like the desert. No,
Speaker 3: it's like flatland.
Speaker 2: Desk where you go to bury somebody.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, You're just like I'm tired of you driving.
Speaker 3: I'm going to drive and I was like okay, and
Speaker 3: so like you hop out of the car, I go
Speaker 3: to like walk and you just like bolt, like you
Speaker 3: run like as fast as you can, like like fire
Speaker 3: drill over to the other side, hop in the car
Speaker 3: and just take off and like I'm like very funny.
Speaker 3: And then you just kept driving away because.
Speaker 1: It wouldn't have been funny if like my tail lights
Speaker 1: were still in view. I had to make sure the
Speaker 1: tail lights were completely out of you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but like it went completely pitch black, and I'm
Speaker 3: standing there for like a solid minute going like, well,
Speaker 3: maybe I should call her and like no service on
Speaker 3: the phone, like look at the phone like three percent.
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh no, like oh this is where I die,
Speaker 3: Like all right, I know, I know. Yeah. Three hours
Speaker 3: years later she comes back left me there.
Speaker 2: I learned it was not three hours. It was like
Speaker 2: two minutes.
Speaker 3: It was like five minutes. Yeah, it's like three hours.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. Next thing, you know, you'll be saying that
Speaker 1: there was like coyotes howling. It was, and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden you were like circled by actually back
Speaker 1: of like wolves.
Speaker 3: I was accepted into a wolf pack and that was
Speaker 3: how I survived.
Speaker 2: That makes sense.
Speaker 1: It was, Yeah, your screenwriting skills are coming into play
Speaker 1: right now because you're literally rewriting history as we speak,
Speaker 1: exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: But it was funny. It just went a little.
Speaker 1: Further than But I think that that whole experience had
Speaker 1: to go a little bit further than.
Speaker 3: Sure.
Speaker 2: You know, we were there in Arizona together.
Speaker 1: You were the producer, and I basically said, yes, I'll
Speaker 1: do this, but only if James is also my assistance.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I worked as your assistant the entire time,
Speaker 3: which pretty much just like involved driving you to it
Speaker 3: from upset. And I remember the one time we stopped
Speaker 3: at like you always wanted to go to this like
Speaker 3: taco shop. Yeah, and like I woke you up while
Speaker 3: we're in like the drive through of the taco shop.
Speaker 3: But it's like we were like driving back and you
Speaker 3: look up and you like read the side, like you
Speaker 3: got so excited, You got so excited, and then fell
Speaker 3: asleep before we actually got the order out of the window.
Speaker 1: I know, but then you would always wake me up
Speaker 1: and I would I would polish off this. But we were,
Speaker 1: you know, driving home at what time?
Speaker 3: Well, because we were shooting like nine for nights overnight,
Speaker 3: so we were like coming home, like as the sun
Speaker 3: was starting to come up, you know, like it was
Speaker 3: like five always like ungodly, like Vampire Hour of like
Speaker 3: making movies what you do when it's like a horror thing.
Speaker 1: It's I think that was a very fun project for
Speaker 1: the two of us because we had a lot of leeway.
Speaker 1: I mean you as a producer, and just because our director,
Speaker 1: you know, trusted both of us.
Speaker 3: So yeah, Perry Perry passed away, yeah last gar.
Speaker 2: So we were able to rewrite and then write stuff.
Speaker 2: And so we would sit in the trailer and just
Speaker 2: write and we were like cracking ourselves.
Speaker 3: It was like our own writer's room. And then we
Speaker 3: like started to like crack ourselves up. But we were
Speaker 3: like are we laughing because it's funny? Are we laughing?
Speaker 3: Because like and it's like four in the morning, and
Speaker 3: like I remember, you'd be like, come up with something funnier.
Speaker 3: James was like, I got nothing.
Speaker 2: And then we would go to the set and tell them.
Speaker 1: We'd be like, just keep the camera rolling, yeah, don't
Speaker 1: even worry about like lines and responding to her, like
Speaker 1: just keep the camera rolling, and she's just gonna say
Speaker 1: a ton of different things. And I would I would
Speaker 1: just like roll with it and then and then you
Speaker 1: would throw like on the spot.
Speaker 2: You would think of something else and you'd be like,
Speaker 2: say this.
Speaker 3: I'd be like, I also wondering, like if it was
Speaker 3: as funny.
Speaker 2: As I don't know because I still haven't seen wait like.
Speaker 3: A hundred years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, as Anna's dad had a million times for it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this on the podcast, we're asking him now
Speaker 3: if you.
Speaker 2: Do not send me this movie, but we want every.
Speaker 3: Take that I'm in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna call you out hardcore because the listeners
Speaker 1: want to.
Speaker 3: They need to see it. They need to see you
Speaker 3: dress the devil.
Speaker 1: Yes. I actually loved playing like because there was just
Speaker 1: a lot of freedom. It was just silly and free
Speaker 1: and awesome. But we met, as you said, yeah, how
Speaker 1: many years ago?
Speaker 3: That was eleven, but a week before we started filming Blood.
Speaker 1: Leg Right, So I got offered this movie Blood leg
Speaker 1: which was not the best script in the world.
Speaker 3: It was about killer eel lamprey things. One of them
Speaker 3: goes up Christopher Lloyd's but it was pretty sure.
Speaker 1: It was not great, but it was a good paycheck
Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm going to do this. And
Speaker 1: also I love working with like young up and coming directors.
Speaker 3: Now did you always? Did you always?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: You did?
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I mean Christopher landon Burning Palms, like yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2: So we met.
Speaker 3: At Christy with long staircase. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it was it was part of this like motel
Speaker 2: hotel holidays, and.
Speaker 1: It had all these I mean I don't even know
Speaker 1: how many stairs to get to the restaurant, like it's
Speaker 1: a hike.
Speaker 3: Like it was. It was like a real staircase.
Speaker 2: Yes, it was a giant Yes. So we went there, yeah,
Speaker 2: and had dinner to meet.
Speaker 3: We had dinner to meet, and like I was nervous because, like,
Speaker 3: you know, this is the first time I'm working with
Speaker 3: like an actor that is like had like I had
Speaker 3: heard of you know, it's.
Speaker 2: Like well like she actually has a resume.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's my first SAG movie, you know, Like it
Speaker 3: was the first time I was working with And also
Speaker 3: I was warned by like everybody that you were incredibly difficult.
Speaker 3: So I was like, Okay, this is like what I'm
Speaker 3: going to deal with, Like okay, let me be prepared.
Speaker 3: So like I go and I sit and like I
Speaker 3: meet like the sweetest lady and then and then you
Speaker 3: show up. I meet the sweetest lady. No no, no,
Speaker 3: like you know me and you both like sat there
Speaker 3: and we both agreed, like okay, this is a nonsense movie,
Speaker 3: but like how do we make it better? And we
Speaker 3: sat there, like, you know, coming up with how to
Speaker 3: make it better and like how to like add depth
Speaker 3: to your character. And I feel like that relationship you know,
Speaker 3: that we had on that very first day of like
Speaker 3: you know, hey, this script is not great, but how
Speaker 3: do we make it better? Has carried over into every
Speaker 3: project we've done. I agree because every time I do something,
Speaker 3: I mean, granted, we do better scripts now, but every
Speaker 3: time you know me and you always have the conversation of, well,
Speaker 3: how do we make it better? And that's part of
Speaker 3: why I love working with you so much is you know,
Speaker 3: you like to push me and you like to help
Speaker 3: me find you know, much more depth in the project.
Speaker 3: And I feel like vice versa exactly. And I think,
Speaker 3: like you know, working with each other, like we push
Speaker 3: each other, we try to find more and we don't
Speaker 3: like to just you know, settle, and I think that's
Speaker 3: I love that dynamic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's never critical, like we're never critical of
Speaker 1: each other.
Speaker 2: It's always just like we.
Speaker 3: Were a little critical of eels going up people's but
Speaker 3: that was the deal.
Speaker 2: We are critical of, not of each other.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's you know, that idea that people have
Speaker 1: and when you meet a like minded person of like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I have this script in front of me, but can
Speaker 1: it be better?
Speaker 2: Can we make something that's super silly and ridiculous.
Speaker 3: Actually and find like the heart of it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, find the heart of it.
Speaker 3: And I think, like, you know, I'm still proud of
Speaker 3: your performance in that. I think you give like a
Speaker 3: very believable performance in a ridiculous movie. Thank you, And
Speaker 3: you kept it grounded, which I really appreciate.
Speaker 1: You're a big part of that because you were very
Speaker 1: much as a director like listen, the more like subtle
Speaker 1: we stay, the better it'll be. But if people are
Speaker 1: going into hysterics over these eels il Lamprey type things
Speaker 1: like coming out from toilets and like showers.
Speaker 3: And which we also didn't even know like how many
Speaker 3: were going to come out, Like it's like we're reacting like, oh,
Speaker 3: it could be like fifty, it could be like one
Speaker 3: of the one, right, yeah, Like we're like, you know,
Speaker 3: we didn't know what the visual effects budget for that
Speaker 3: was going.
Speaker 1: To like it was, so you kept it very You
Speaker 1: kept it grounded. You know, as a director, you kept
Speaker 1: pretty much everyone very grounded.
Speaker 3: Well, I think, you know, but that was that was
Speaker 3: That was awesome. And the first time, you know, we meet,
Speaker 3: you know, at the very end of our meeting, which
Speaker 3: I know you told me that I couldn't tell this story,
Speaker 3: but I have to because it is the it is
Speaker 3: the best you story ever. But yeah, no, the very
Speaker 3: end of the meeting, after we had this lovely meeting
Speaker 3: of talking, you know, you give me a hug, and
Speaker 3: you go to walk down that giant staircase and you
Speaker 3: trip and fall down the entire staircase. And I'm standing
Speaker 3: at the top of the staircase and I'm like, oh
Speaker 3: my god, did she just die?
Speaker 1: It's like forty stairs, like forty stairs, and You're.
Speaker 3: Laying at the bottom of the staircase and I'm like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, I just killed Shannon, Like did I
Speaker 3: hug her wrong? Like what just happened here? And you
Speaker 3: just like look up like this and go I meant
Speaker 3: to do that and like scurry off, and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 3: I'll see you mon day. And I was like, oh
Speaker 3: my god.
Speaker 2: I was so embarrassed and humiliated.
Speaker 1: All I could think was like, I I like, how
Speaker 1: do I literally crawl to the car you get home?
Speaker 3: When you got up though, and did that, and You're like,
Speaker 3: I meant to do that. Like in my mind, I
Speaker 3: was thinking like maybe she did, because like there was
Speaker 3: that whole conversation during dinner where you were like, you know,
Speaker 3: my stunts in this are and that bit like that
Speaker 3: I probably do, like I could do my own, Saul, yeah,
Speaker 3: And so I was like, maybe.
Speaker 1: Maybe I was she auditioning I could do the stunts.
Speaker 3: I was like, I don't know what's going on. I
Speaker 3: was like, you know, for sure, it was only until
Speaker 3: like you know, day three of filming you were like, yeah, no,
Speaker 3: I totally did not mean to.
Speaker 1: Do that, Like when I had bruises my body and
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, that's that hurts.
Speaker 2: A little bit.
Speaker 3: But it was fun. It was fun.
Speaker 2: It was fun.
Speaker 1: So one of the things that I love about you,
Speaker 1: it was, you know, kind of reminiscent of like Quentin
Speaker 1: Tarantino that he and and a lot of directors honestly,
Speaker 1: I mean Martin Scorsese Wright works with like Leo Leonardo DiCaprio,
Speaker 1: all the time, and there are directors that, you know,
Speaker 1: hire the same people over and over and over and
Speaker 1: over again. And I love that that about you a
Speaker 1: because thanks, thanks, you give me jobs, and I really
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 3: You give me amazing performances. But one thing I love
Speaker 3: about working with the same people, especially working with with you,
Speaker 3: is every time you work with somebody, it's like you're
Speaker 3: learning their language. Every person in entertainment, in a creative
Speaker 3: art speaks a different language. And so when you learn
Speaker 3: that person's language and you know how to communicate with
Speaker 3: them and you become like that, you become family and
Speaker 3: you work together and you do this. Why learn that
Speaker 3: with somebody else?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Have that there and you built upon that? Why not
Speaker 3: continue to build upon that?
Speaker 1: Well, Yeah, because there's like a trust you know, it's
Speaker 1: so built that now you can tell me to do
Speaker 1: something you know, completely outside of the box and like silly,
Speaker 1: and I trust you with like what you're telling me
Speaker 1: to do, and I'm like, Okay, this will probably work.
Speaker 3: And I think that trust went both ways in when
Speaker 3: we did Bethany, because I remember right before the first
Speaker 3: day of filming on Bethany, you had like gotten the
Speaker 3: cancer diagnosis, like or like that week.
Speaker 2: And you had called me and I was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you were like, I'm not sure if I
Speaker 3: can do this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I was worried, and I.
Speaker 3: Told you, like, look like if if you can't do it,
Speaker 3: like we'll figure it out and we'll I'll get somebody else.
Speaker 3: But I think you're going to want to take your
Speaker 3: mind off of it and do it. And if you do,
Speaker 3: like i'll send you the call sheet. You'll be there,
Speaker 3: and if you don't show up, I'll know that you
Speaker 3: can't do it and I'll get a replacement. Don't worry
Speaker 3: about us. And you showed up and you did it.
Speaker 3: And I remember there was the one time, because I
Speaker 3: guess the meds were messing with you a little. You
Speaker 3: had that one speech that you had to give that
Speaker 3: was all about you know, when you were looking at
Speaker 3: your face in the mirror and it's about beauty, and.
Speaker 1: I mean it was a weird speech, yeah, and the
Speaker 1: way that it was written, it didn't like come out.
Speaker 1: And then I think I was obviously it was literally
Speaker 1: a week or two weeks after getting diagnosed, just starting meds.
Speaker 1: My brain was like on overdrive thinking about cancer and
Speaker 1: like what does this mean? And you know what, what
Speaker 1: are like the next steps? And then all of a
Speaker 1: sudden you get this, you know, monologue that really makes
Speaker 1: no sense to you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a super intense monologue and it was long,
Speaker 3: and you know you're supposed to be looking at your
Speaker 3: face and touching.
Speaker 1: It and photographic memory.
Speaker 3: So like the meds were messing with you in that moment,
Speaker 3: and I remember, you know, you were like, I'm not
Speaker 3: gonna I can't, I can't get this down. We talked
Speaker 3: about like what the meaning of the monologue was, and
Speaker 3: it was like, you know about like lost you know,
Speaker 3: youth and and and how you no longer saw that
Speaker 3: beauty in yourself and that's why you were projecting it
Speaker 3: onto your child and you know the depth of that.
Speaker 3: And then we talked about you know that story from
Speaker 3: uh when Francis Ford Coppola was doing The Godfather too
Speaker 3: and de Niro was looking at like the baby and
Speaker 3: he had this whole monologue he's supposed to be saying
Speaker 3: to his son, and he says, I'm just gonna do
Speaker 3: it with a look. I'm not gonna say anything. I'm
Speaker 3: not gonna say this monologue. I'm just gonna look at
Speaker 3: the baby. And all my hopes and dreams that I
Speaker 3: want for this baby is going to be in the look.
Speaker 3: And a couple of trusted him, and he did it,
Speaker 3: and then sure enough he did it with the look.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And so we talked about that and and you were like,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna do it with a look. And you did
Speaker 3: it with the look. You look in the mirror and
Speaker 3: you started crying and you didn't have to say anything.
Speaker 3: It was all it was all on your face right there.
Speaker 3: And I think that really showed trust on both of
Speaker 3: our sides. I agree to be able to have that moment.
Speaker 3: I thought that was like where we really We had
Speaker 3: done many projects before together, but I felt like that's
Speaker 3: where we really like click clicked, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it totally makes sense.
Speaker 1: And I think it's actually one of like if I
Speaker 1: just take that scene and put it on, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't have a website, but if I did, you know,
Speaker 1: I put it there as like a moment that I'm
Speaker 1: really proud of as an actor. I would put that
Speaker 1: on because I felt like it was I think it's
Speaker 1: much harder to convey as an actor everything only through
Speaker 1: a look. The words help you convey it because it's obvious.
Speaker 1: It's very obvious the audience like, oh, here's what I'm
Speaker 1: trying to say. Because I'm using my words, I'm also
Speaker 1: using my face, but there's words to help back it up.
Speaker 1: And this was when you when you can only rely
Speaker 1: on conveying with your eyes and like your emotion, I
Speaker 1: think it's much more well.
Speaker 3: There was such authentic, raw vulnerability you at that point
Speaker 3: in your life as well as in that moment, and
Speaker 3: I think it really shows on screen there and capturing that.
Speaker 3: It was I would say, one of my proudest moments
Speaker 3: as a directors.
Speaker 1: And you only made me do it like twenty thousand
Speaker 1: times thirty I remember how Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2: I mean we've done a lot. So we did blood leg.
Speaker 3: Borgre's music video.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we did Bethany, we did we did the Double movie,
Speaker 1: We did the pilot.
Speaker 2: We did a pilot together. I forgot that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we did a pilot together which turned out pretty good.
Speaker 2: What was that called again?
Speaker 3: I forget?
Speaker 2: I forget too.
Speaker 3: It was about rock and roll. Yes, we did that. Yes,
Speaker 3: and then we did the Bruce Willis movie, the Mel
Speaker 3: Gibson movie, the Fandamn movie.
Speaker 1: The Bruce Willis movie, it's called the Fortress. That also
Speaker 1: was a really kind of fascinating experience for me, And
Speaker 1: I just remember this scene with him that was written
Speaker 1: one way.
Speaker 2: It was written.
Speaker 1: As I'm a general and I'm an actual bad guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he's the good guy hero as Bruce Willis always is.
Speaker 1: And it was just me sort of saying, you know,
Speaker 1: this is this is how it works, buddy, essentially, And
Speaker 1: in that moment of filming it, Bruce and I had
Speaker 1: a very different connection.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you both started crying and held hands and like
Speaker 3: kind of changed the dialogue, which is a thing like
Speaker 3: this very braw moment that found like the humanity in
Speaker 3: both characters, and you found it as like a person
Speaker 3: who was struggling to do like you wanted to do
Speaker 3: the right thing, but you had to do the wrong thing.
Speaker 3: And it created a much more layered character, somebody that
Speaker 3: was conflicted and that didn't really want to hurt you know,
Speaker 3: Bruce's character. You were just having to. And I think,
Speaker 3: you know, we explored that, like that was what was fun,
Speaker 3: and we were just like, let's just roll with it,
Speaker 3: like you know, we didn't go okay, let's go back
Speaker 3: to that. It's like, okay, the energy is there, like,
Speaker 3: let's roll with that energy, let's let's find that.
Speaker 1: But that's also, you know, a testament to you as
Speaker 1: a director, because a lot of people, I think, would
Speaker 1: it would throw them off and they would say, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: that's not the direction, and this is what the movie
Speaker 1: is about, and this is what your character is about.
Speaker 2: And instead you are you're like a very fluid director
Speaker 2: in the sense of.
Speaker 1: You're happy to see what a person is feeling raw
Speaker 1: in that moment and explore where it takes us.
Speaker 3: The thing. The thing is is I feel that, like
Speaker 3: you don't want to fight what somebody's experiencing, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean, because then it feels disingenuine. So find
Speaker 3: that the genuine moments with the person. What are they feeling,
Speaker 3: what are they feeling that day, because everybody comes with
Speaker 3: whatever they're experiencing and that's there, and utilize that and
Speaker 3: beyond that. I think that, like you know, a good
Speaker 3: director doesn't always have to have the best ideas. It's
Speaker 3: why you're surrounded by so many brilliant people. You just
Speaker 3: have to recognize good ones and so being able to
Speaker 3: be adaptable and utilize the tools that everybody brings you
Speaker 3: and say Okay, I can do this, this and this,
Speaker 3: and I can bind these to do this. Like That's
Speaker 3: that's the way I look at it. It's a collaborative medium.
Speaker 3: It's a living, breathing thing. It never it evolves as
Speaker 3: we make it together. If not, I would be doing
Speaker 3: every job and playing every role, right, you know. So
Speaker 3: it's it's I think it's you know, and obviously I'm
Speaker 3: not an actor show, but I think, you know, finding
Speaker 3: those moments together is what's what's magical. I mean, you know,
Speaker 3: sometimes it's not even just like the end product of
Speaker 3: the movie, but the experience of making it and feeling
Speaker 3: those moments together. And don't get me wrong, I'm always focused,
Speaker 3: as you know, on making the best movie possible, but
Speaker 3: that doesn't mean it has to be exactly this or nothing,
Speaker 3: you know. And I think we've got a great balance
Speaker 3: of finding that stuff together. And I think the trust
Speaker 3: that we have in doing that has enabled us to like,
Speaker 3: you know, try different things. I don't know if I
Speaker 3: would have been as open to you know, somebody else
Speaker 3: doing that in that moment, I would have been like,
Speaker 3: what is this person? But I'm like, Okay, Shannon, who
Speaker 3: I've got a bunch of stuff with and Bruce, so
Speaker 3: let's see where this goes, you know, yeah, and it
Speaker 3: just it just really worked.
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, for me as an actor, I can
Speaker 1: tell you that I've had a couple of really like
Speaker 1: raw moments, you know, I mean, you hope that all
Speaker 1: of them come across as like raw honest moments, but
Speaker 1: personally very raw, honest moments that are captured on screen.
Speaker 1: And that was one of them. The other one was
Speaker 1: in Bethany. There was one in like the second season
Speaker 1: of Charmed where you know, I cry because Andy is
Speaker 1: dead and I'm sort of blaming myself and that was
Speaker 1: haven't even seen it.
Speaker 2: Oh I'm sorry. That was like a very raw moment.
Speaker 1: So those are the moments that I always look back
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh man, that's when I was my best.
Speaker 1: Is when I'm like the most raw and sort of
Speaker 1: broken down because there's no there's no wall, there's no pretense,
Speaker 1: you're not self conscious, you're not any of those things.
Speaker 1: You're just like in the moment. And it's something that
Speaker 1: I strive for as an actor. So we did the
Speaker 1: Bruce Willis thing, and then we did the Mel Gibson movie.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I love your dynamic with mel. Also, I
Speaker 3: thought like it was really interesting seeing you guys play
Speaker 3: off of each other and find you guys found moments
Speaker 3: together too, which it was just fascinating for me because
Speaker 3: I'm like, wow, this is like insane to watch and
Speaker 3: be a part of and to be able to shepherd that.
Speaker 3: So it was it was really special. And I remember
Speaker 3: I called you and I was like, I want you
Speaker 3: to play this role. And I thought it was very
Speaker 3: funny because I'm always trying to have you play just
Speaker 3: some random thing you're a general about. You're a police
Speaker 3: chief this, You're like, you cast me of the things
Speaker 3: nobody else thinks me ever.
Speaker 1: Ever, they would like put me as the wife and
Speaker 1: you're like, no, no, no, no, the police chief.
Speaker 3: I'm like yeah, because I'm like your boss dog, Dilugherty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know boss dog.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's you know, Shannon's a boss dog. She's
Speaker 3: a play played Monopoly or heads up with her one
Speaker 3: time we get into that.
Speaker 1: I know we want uh no, but like you do
Speaker 1: you put me in in roles that nobody else would
Speaker 1: normally put me in, including myself, and it turns out interesting,
Speaker 1: you know, on that one.
Speaker 2: I was uncomfortable playing a police chief.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why you were doing the nicotine gum, and we.
Speaker 1: We talked about that, so then we created that. I
Speaker 1: was like, I need I need something to do. I
Speaker 1: need like something in my hands, something in my mouth, like,
Speaker 1: I need something just distract my own head from telling
Speaker 1: myself why are you playing?
Speaker 3: So were you more nervous about playing a police chief
Speaker 3: or were you more nervous about being against like melk
Speaker 3: is because you weren't nervous about being.
Speaker 2: A general generally.
Speaker 1: I was. I just didn't I hadn't quite learned how
Speaker 1: to transfer that nervousness into having an action like you know,
Speaker 1: eating on screen.
Speaker 3: Would you talk about the whole thing with Brad Pitt.
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, Like yeah, So I said to you, like
Speaker 1: I need something to do. How about if she's a
Speaker 1: former smoker, like I wanted to chew gum? And then
Speaker 1: you came up with the nicotine.
Speaker 3: You were like, so you have to have a reason
Speaker 3: why you're chewing gum. And then I'm like, okay, maybe
Speaker 3: the stress level is like here, and then you know
Speaker 3: you have that thing of like okay, well maybe you know,
Speaker 3: maybe it gets too much and you want to go
Speaker 3: smoke and like there's that, Like, you know, we were
Speaker 3: creating the layers in the backstory of that instead of
Speaker 3: just being like, yeah, she's just chewing gum, Like why
Speaker 3: is she chewing gum? You know, it's stuff that people
Speaker 3: don't necessarily see on screen, but it's that stuff that
Speaker 3: you like embody and informs the decisions and the moments
Speaker 3: and the this and the that that that you know,
Speaker 3: it's a living breathing thing. It's a living breathing character.
Speaker 3: And I think that kind of you know, was fun
Speaker 3: to do.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's very reminiscent of when I was younger.
Speaker 1: I studied with this acting coach, Jeff Corey. He used
Speaker 1: to be an actor. He was a big character actor
Speaker 1: and he was an amazing acting coach. And he lived
Speaker 1: here in Melo. I didn't even live in Malibu at
Speaker 1: the time, but my mom would drive me and he
Speaker 1: would always have me do an entire backstory. So let's
Speaker 1: say you picked up on my character when she was,
Speaker 1: you know, twenty six years old. Well, he would make
Speaker 1: me create her from the time of birth up until
Speaker 1: twenty six, so that the character was super layered.
Speaker 2: And I still do that to this day.
Speaker 3: It's important because the story only exists as a microcosm
Speaker 3: you know of who the person is. So it's like,
Speaker 3: you know, you have that brief moment of knowing this
Speaker 3: person in a story, but they have all this life
Speaker 3: before it. So I think it's important as an actor
Speaker 3: and director to be on the same page of what
Speaker 3: that life was, you know, because people in life make
Speaker 3: decisions based upon previous experience. Yeah, so you know, if
Speaker 3: you had, you know, a bad situation with you know,
Speaker 3: I don't know, like a lover, you were going to
Speaker 3: be more afraid of being in love, right if you
Speaker 3: if you had you know, if you made the wrong
Speaker 3: mistake as a police chief and it got somebody killed,
Speaker 3: you're going to be, you know, afraid of making decisions
Speaker 3: that might hurt somebody. Yes, but if we don't layer
Speaker 3: that and have those conversations and find that that's not
Speaker 3: in the script, then you're just going not you. But
Speaker 3: people are just going like, oh, well, I just do
Speaker 3: that because I do that, you know. So finding the
Speaker 3: intention together is I think part of the magic of
Speaker 3: making a movie with an actor.
Speaker 1: I agree, but I do like that you let the
Speaker 1: actors find their way and bring their a little bit
Speaker 1: of their own sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah. What I like to do is, you know, I
Speaker 3: like to imagine every character. It's like a blank canvas,
Speaker 3: and we take our ideas about the character and we
Speaker 3: throw them at the canvas and whatever like sticks for
Speaker 3: both of us. We use to paint the picture of
Speaker 3: who that person is, right, And I think like that's
Speaker 3: kind of you know the way I look at it,
Speaker 3: And the more the actor brings to the table, the
Speaker 3: more excited they are it. And I like to build
Speaker 3: off of what they're saying and find that And of
Speaker 3: course I'll bring my ideas too, but I like to
Speaker 3: hear where their thoughts are because a lot of the
Speaker 3: times our thoughts, especially about characters, subconsciously we're relating it
Speaker 3: to moments within our own life, right, And so you know,
Speaker 3: we look at a character, we project our own life
Speaker 3: onto it and drop meaning from there. Yeah, And so
Speaker 3: I think it's it's interesting to see that because then
Speaker 3: you can understand somebody's thought process.
Speaker 1: So what was that, Like? I mean, Mel Gibson directed Braveheart. Yeah,
Speaker 1: one of my favorite movies of all time. There's not
Speaker 1: a soul that can dispute what an amazing movie. That was,
Speaker 1: and what a phenomenal job he did, Yes, as an actor,
Speaker 1: but as a director, right.
Speaker 3: Mostly I talked to him about Apocalypto because I love that, right,
Speaker 3: I mean, it's fascinated by making a movie in a
Speaker 3: dead language, and.
Speaker 2: That's got to be a lot of pressure.
Speaker 3: It was, and it wasn't. The funniest thing is the
Speaker 3: first time I meet him, he sits down and he's like,
Speaker 3: all right, how do we make my character a little funnier?
Speaker 3: And me and him go through the script and start
Speaker 3: changing his dialogue together, and I was like, this reminds
Speaker 3: me of working with Shannon, and so you know, it was.
Speaker 3: It was fun. You know, the fact that he'll shoot
Speaker 3: me text messages and ask how you're doing. Still to
Speaker 3: this day, you know he likes to check in about
Speaker 3: you and see how you are, and you know, like
Speaker 3: he doesn't have to do that. Now, you know how
Speaker 3: many people have we worked with that don't do that.
Speaker 2: So Puerto Rico with Bruce Willis, New Mexico with mel and.
Speaker 3: Then Los Angeles and then Los.
Speaker 2: Angeles with Van dam Yeah, and you know, you work
Speaker 2: with like what I.
Speaker 1: Regard like movie stars, right, they're like our older guard
Speaker 1: of movie stars, which I also love, and you're constantly
Speaker 1: being like I want to work with this one and
Speaker 1: this one, and I'm like, that's so awesome because you're
Speaker 1: not necessarily, you know, chasing like the trend.
Speaker 3: I mean, for me, I grew up watching all these
Speaker 3: people in movies, so like, I get really excited about
Speaker 3: working with people that. Like I learned about filmmaking from
Speaker 3: watching movies, So I got excited to like I watched,
Speaker 3: you know, I watched Lethal Weapon, and I watched die Hard,
Speaker 3: and I watched you know, Kickboxer and all these movies
Speaker 3: when I was a kid, and I was like, I
Speaker 3: want to make movies, and I'm gonna work with those
Speaker 3: people when I get older, Like when I make a movie,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna work with those people, you know. And so
Speaker 3: like that was like really exciting because like I'm like
Speaker 3: sitting behind monitor watching a movie on the screen, and
Speaker 3: I'm like, holy shit, this is my movie. I'm doing
Speaker 3: the thing I said, yeah. So it's like it's you know,
Speaker 3: it's like I'm a little I'm a kid in a
Speaker 3: candy store. I got to work with the people that
Speaker 3: like inspired me to want to make movies.
Speaker 2: And you got started because your dad was in the business.
Speaker 3: Well, I wouldn't say I got started because of that.
Speaker 3: I think I gravitated towards it. But like my dad
Speaker 3: never like hired me or maybe gave me a job,
Speaker 3: but I grew up passion for it because you know,
Speaker 3: he like, he was a writer, and I was very
Speaker 3: passionate about film. And when he got very sick when
Speaker 3: I was younger, and he was like bedridden, he was
Speaker 3: having liver failure at the time, and you know, before
Speaker 3: that he was like my baseball coach all this stuff.
Speaker 3: But all we could do was like watch movies, and
Speaker 3: so we would watch movies and he would like pause
Speaker 3: the movie and ask me questions about it, and he'd
Speaker 3: like throw on stuff like you know, the multice falcon
Speaker 3: and then like you know, he'd you know, be like,
Speaker 3: why is Humphrey Bogart's handshaking? You know, he paused the
Speaker 3: movie and asked me. And I'm like, at the time,
Speaker 3: I thought he was just you know, trying to make
Speaker 3: sure I was paying attention. I was like a little kid.
Speaker 3: But then I started to realize, no, he was trying
Speaker 3: to get me to analyze why an actor's doing a
Speaker 3: certain thing, why camera's moving a certain way, what's actually
Speaker 3: going on beyond what like the surface level of the movie.
Speaker 3: And I think that was really, you know, special, So
Speaker 3: you know, I guess that was my film school. But
Speaker 3: I also was the kid that would like make short
Speaker 3: films about why I didn't want to do the book
Speaker 3: report instead of doing it, of course, because I was like, nah,
Speaker 3: I don't need that, you know. I remember my mom
Speaker 3: was telling me a story where she was like, you know,
Speaker 3: I was failing out of chemistry, and she was like,
Speaker 3: you know, you're gonna fail out of chemistry, and I
Speaker 3: was like, Mom, don't worry about it. I'm not going
Speaker 3: to need chemistry when I'm making movies.
Speaker 2: You were that confident.
Speaker 3: I was high, Oh yeah, exactly, I'm failing upwards.
Speaker 1: But you know, you were that guy that's, you know,
Speaker 1: truly a workaholic like you. I think you're the happiest
Speaker 1: when you're prepping and then on a movie set.
Speaker 3: It's where I feel like the most me if that
Speaker 3: makes sense. But I mean I feel like you feel
Speaker 3: the most of you when you're working, too.
Speaker 2: I definitely do.
Speaker 3: You definitely are not the type that can sit like idle.
Speaker 3: I mean, look, you're doing a podcast, like I'm doing something, yeah,
Speaker 3: Like you're always doing something, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think sitting idle just gives me
Speaker 1: too much time to examine and examine and examine, and
Speaker 1: then there's nothing it is going to come out of that.
Speaker 2: Well, at the end of the.
Speaker 3: Day, we've all trained, we both trained our minds to
Speaker 3: be analytical, and so if we spend too much time
Speaker 3: with nothing to analyze, we're going to analyze ourselves. So
Speaker 3: it's like, not do that.
Speaker 1: We have to analyze myself to a certain degree. Like
Speaker 1: I'm pretty I'm pretty hard on myself, so I have
Speaker 1: too much time to really really really do it, and
Speaker 1: I feel like fetle position, you're.
Speaker 3: Too hard on yourself sometimes. That's why I've always I've
Speaker 3: always said that, you know, if you're going to be
Speaker 3: your your toughest critic, you also got to be your
Speaker 3: biggest cheerleader. You know, you got to like you're amazing,
Speaker 3: You've done so many amazing things, and you know, every
Speaker 3: time me and you talk, you know, I just want
Speaker 3: to remind you of that. Like we touched on it
Speaker 3: briefly in the beginning, but like we have this amazing
Speaker 3: relationship of working together and the first time I was
Speaker 3: going to work with you, I was warned about you
Speaker 3: being difficult, and right, you weren't, you.
Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, I mean I think that's still there, right,
Speaker 1: So maybe that's probably why I'm so hard on myself.
Speaker 1: And I definitely have not gotten the cheerleading part down,
Speaker 1: Like being my own cheerleader has been a tough one
Speaker 1: for me that I have not mastered. And yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: you hear a story and I hear this from a
Speaker 1: lot of people, or I used to hear it from
Speaker 1: a lot of people of Oh, I was warned about you,
Speaker 1: and I was told that you're difficult or you're this,
Speaker 1: And it's so hard for me to realize that there's
Speaker 1: a whole like narrative and agenda that's out there about
Speaker 1: me that has almost nothing to do with me.
Speaker 3: It's not you at all. And I mean that must
Speaker 3: be hard to deal with.
Speaker 1: As you know, I'm pretty sensitive and I tend to
Speaker 1: take a lot of things personal. And it hurts me
Speaker 1: when it hurts me knowing that someone said to you
Speaker 1: that I'm difficult.
Speaker 2: It hurts me that there's, you.
Speaker 1: Know, something out there about me that is not true
Speaker 1: or isn't one hundred percent of the truth or there's
Speaker 1: you know, two sides to every story. There's this, there's that,
Speaker 1: you know. I dealt with it this morning, like I
Speaker 1: was in a super bad mood today, as you know,
Speaker 1: I remember when I got yeah, because they're you know
Speaker 1: people who they they want the answers from me on
Speaker 1: this podcast. They want me to be clear about things,
Speaker 1: but then they don't actually want the truth. They that
Speaker 1: didn't fit into like their idea of what the truth
Speaker 1: should be. I'm getting better, like the older I get,
Speaker 1: and I think also cancer has really changed my perspective
Speaker 1: because now I'm I'm a lot more like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: like life is way too short and I can't worry
Speaker 1: about like the random ten people that that are pissed
Speaker 1: that I'm saying something I've got to worry about, like
Speaker 1: am I being honest to me?
Speaker 2: But when you.
Speaker 1: Got told like oh, you know, just warning you, like
Speaker 1: she's really difficult.
Speaker 3: Then I pushed you down the stairs and then you push.
Speaker 1: You just to show me it was boss, but you
Speaker 1: still went forward with working with me.
Speaker 3: I mean I was twenty yeah, so I was you know,
Speaker 3: I was like, hey, I'll risk it, but you know,
Speaker 3: roll of the dice but you know, I mean it
Speaker 3: must be it must be difficult living in that shadow,
Speaker 3: especially because like regardless of you know, whether it's true
Speaker 3: or not, any of these events happened so long, like
Speaker 3: a lifetime ago at this point, so like it's it's
Speaker 3: really I think sad to deal with, you know, because
Speaker 3: you're such a kind, creative, loving person, and you're a
Speaker 3: creative powerhouse and and really like you know, able to
Speaker 3: tap into raw emotion and really you give it. You're
Speaker 3: all and so the fact that anybody would would question
Speaker 3: whether they should work with you over something that happened
Speaker 3: so long ago, is is is foolish, It's crazy. I mean,
Speaker 3: you know, I have my own opinions. I don't think
Speaker 3: you did any of those things. But but regardless, it's
Speaker 3: it's even even if it did, it's so long ago
Speaker 3: that it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, listen, there's definitely some that I did,
Speaker 1: Like absolutely, I take full accountability for anything that I did.
Speaker 1: But you're right, like, I'm sorry, how can a woman
Speaker 1: be persecuted for something she did when she was twenty
Speaker 1: years old, you know, like and that it definitely followed
Speaker 1: me or when I was eighteen, It followed me my
Speaker 1: you know, my entire career, and it, by.
Speaker 2: The way, it still follows me to this day, you.
Speaker 3: Know, working together and stuff like we've been working together
Speaker 3: during your cancer and so many people you've had to
Speaker 3: voice that you are still happy to work and able
Speaker 3: to work. Yeah, because people right off, you know, oh,
Speaker 3: she has cancer, she's this, she can't you know, she
Speaker 3: can't do it, And I mean you can, if anything,
Speaker 3: you're more in touch with your emotions, you know. I
Speaker 3: think it's it's it's very it's a weird experience to
Speaker 3: have people reach out to me, you know, when we're
Speaker 3: so close and have and I feel like almost publicly
Speaker 3: so close, you know, and have people ask me yeah.
Speaker 3: But but regardless, I think the funniest, the funniest Yeah,
Speaker 3: there you go. It's it's it's Robin the cradle. But
Speaker 3: I think the thing that's difficult to deal with is
Speaker 3: is having people reach out and say, like, you know,
Speaker 3: is she either is she able to work? I'll get
Speaker 3: those questions or like stuff like you know, like what
Speaker 3: she liked to deal with and like if I'm getting
Speaker 3: those questions like what what are you dealing with? And
Speaker 3: or are you not even getting those questions because like
Speaker 3: they don't even have the guts to talk to you exactly,
Speaker 3: So you're not even there to defend yourself in these rooms,
Speaker 3: which is I think, you know, an unfair thing, because
Speaker 3: you know, you're able to work and you're easy to
Speaker 3: work with.
Speaker 1: It was also like a different day and age right
Speaker 1: when I had when I I got that reputation, when
Speaker 1: I first supposedly earned it, like earned in quotation marks,
Speaker 1: it was a different day and age, like women weren't
Speaker 1: allowed to speak out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like you've been a casualty of that
Speaker 3: because look at how has nobody supported you as as
Speaker 3: all of these women's rights things have been pushed now,
Speaker 3: you know, like so much further. You were an opinionated,
Speaker 3: you know, woman who who was working very hard, who
Speaker 3: was gaining fame, and like, you know, I understand how
Speaker 3: somebody could be threatened, you know, in that regard, like
Speaker 3: somebody who's insecure if you came to them and were like, hey,
Speaker 3: what do you think I try this or this with
Speaker 3: the character, they might be like super threatened by that,
Speaker 3: you know. Like, so I understand, but it's part of
Speaker 3: the collaborative process. That's that's all their problem, not your problem,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. And I think that's I
Speaker 3: think it's unfair that that has not been reversed, you know,
Speaker 3: and people aren't going like, wow, we need to actually
Speaker 3: cut Shan in somet and think about that. I think
Speaker 3: it's it's a really unfair situation.
Speaker 2: Thanks, I'm over it. I'm sorry over it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just like you know, I've I've been
Speaker 1: I've been chasing that for so long that like reputation
Speaker 1: and trying to prove myself that eventually I think you
Speaker 1: just go why, Like what am I doing and what
Speaker 1: is it all for.
Speaker 3: A healthy response? Though, like you shouldn't have to prove yourself.
Speaker 1: Listen, that might not all be true if it weren't,
Speaker 1: you know, like I get to still be creative as
Speaker 1: an actor and go on to sets because I get
Speaker 1: to work with you, you know, like you've literally one
Speaker 1: of the few people that have hired me over the
Speaker 1: last eleven years, right, Like there's been a few Kevin Smith,
Speaker 1: like you know I did the Heather's reboot, there are some,
Speaker 1: but you have consistently like hired, rehired, hired, rehired me
Speaker 1: almost to the point where I I wonder if you
Speaker 1: regret it, because now I call you and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I hear you're doing another movie.
Speaker 2: No, no, it my part in it?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: No, like the latest one, I'm not going to say
Speaker 2: who was in it. And I was like, there better
Speaker 2: be apart from me, James, the latest one.
Speaker 3: And when you read, you read the script and you go,
Speaker 3: you go that there's not enough, good enough part for
Speaker 3: you. You don't want to do this one.
Speaker 2: You've said that to me.
Speaker 3: Well, I said, yeah, I can't do this one. There's
Speaker 3: not a good enough part for Shanon to this.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, I can find one.
Speaker 3: You can find one. Write every word, just write.
Speaker 1: It bigger, make it bigger. But it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1: I'm like, you can do it, James. I believe in you.
Speaker 3: She doesn't actually call me and tell me not to
Speaker 3: do a movie. I'm just some of this is sarcasm,
Speaker 3: been taking out of context on a podcast, So I
Speaker 3: just wanted to be very clear.
Speaker 1: Oh God, I can't wait for the trolls to get
Speaker 1: a hold of this. It's so funny. Speaking of rur
Speaker 1: next movie.
Speaker 3: No, I'm kidding, Ah, Shannon, speaking of you ever played
Speaker 3: the game heads up? So there's this game heads Up
Speaker 3: where you guess things, and so it's like turn it
Speaker 3: downwards anytime you get the thing right to see how
Speaker 3: many points you could brack up. So I got like
Speaker 3: a bazillion points on it. I did really well. And
Speaker 3: then Shannon had to go second, and anytime she would
Speaker 3: guess something, it would be wrong and you go no, no, no,
Speaker 3: it's right, and she she did it, and then she
Speaker 3: goes up, I beat you. I had a higher point score,
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh you did. Was go like this,
Speaker 3: you didn't even guess.
Speaker 2: So, oh my god, I'm so competitor.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: She's like, but the score says I won, And I
Speaker 3: was like, you literally just went like this. I am.
Speaker 1: I mean my brother like growing up playing Sean Sean,
Speaker 1: my brother Sean growing up playing games. He was like
Speaker 1: horrified to play any games with me because I I
Speaker 1: had to win.
Speaker 2: I just I had to win. Yeah, it was like
Speaker 2: a real thing.
Speaker 3: No, it's it's true. I'm remembering your mystery party where
Speaker 3: I figured it out and you literally switched teams to
Speaker 3: go on to my team because you're like, oh wait,
Speaker 3: he does figure it.
Speaker 2: I knew you had it figured it out.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So You're like, I'm on his team, and you're like,
Speaker 3: I got it.
Speaker 1: Right because you were just it was the way that
Speaker 1: you were walking around the house.
Speaker 2: You're very confident. But you also did what everybody was
Speaker 2: supposed to do.
Speaker 1: So we had a murder mystery here at my house
Speaker 1: in Malibu for my last birthday, and everybody got divided
Speaker 1: into teams, and so you're supposed to go up and
Speaker 1: ask each group questions and then the questions give you clues,
Speaker 1: and James was doing that.
Speaker 2: I was I don't know.
Speaker 1: I guess I just thought that I could figure it
Speaker 1: out without even asking anybody anything.
Speaker 2: I forgot.
Speaker 1: I was socializing and you know, but then I saw
Speaker 1: James stop talking to everybody and he just he had
Speaker 1: this like little smirk.
Speaker 2: On his face, and I knew.
Speaker 1: And that instant that he had it all figured out.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I went to him. I was like, James,
Speaker 1: it's my birthday. I want to know the answer right now.
Speaker 1: And he told me and we won.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we did, we did, thanks to me. I told
Speaker 3: her and Shannon. Shannon instead of winning, then went around
Speaker 3: telling everybody what it was and said that you figured
Speaker 3: it out, so everyone everyone won.
Speaker 1: No, it was Adam, Dana and I that got the
Speaker 1: little certificates.
Speaker 3: I didn't get this right, Oh, you just stole my thing.
Speaker 3: I didn't win.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you didn't win. My team won. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think you said that you didn't care. I remember
Speaker 1: you being like, I don't care, just take it and
Speaker 1: give it to your team. And I was like, and
Speaker 1: I felt bad for your team member.
Speaker 3: It was your brother.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's hysterical. But it was fun. It
Speaker 2: was like something different to do.
Speaker 3: It was fun.
Speaker 1: So I'm curious, like, because you know, you and I've
Speaker 1: obviously I've been friends for eleven years and we've been
Speaker 1: through a lot together and cancer, Like, how was that?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: Because I because I know that it's as hard as
Speaker 1: it is on me, it's also extremely hard on the
Speaker 1: other people in my life.
Speaker 3: You know, It's it's I get asked about it a lot.
Speaker 3: Everybody asks me for like updates of how you are
Speaker 3: and stuff, and it's one of those things of like
Speaker 3: sometimes I feel because we don't really talk about it. No,
Speaker 3: I mean that's like, but I feel like we don't
Speaker 3: talk about it, not because I don't want to know
Speaker 3: about it, but because I feel like because I don't
Speaker 3: see you on a daily basis when we see each other, like,
Speaker 3: I'm kind of your escape from dealing with it. You're
Speaker 3: dealing with this diagnosis at all times, and so like,
Speaker 3: I try to not make our time together about that, yeah,
Speaker 3: because I feel like you need that time away from that.
Speaker 1: It wasn't that long ago after like one of my
Speaker 1: infusions and I get really sick or the infusions for
Speaker 1: like a couple of days, and you came over. You
Speaker 1: were like, listen, we don't have to talk about it.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna come over. You can sleep on the couch.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna sit next to you watch TV. And
Speaker 1: you did, and it was actually, it was really nice
Speaker 1: because it was like there was again, there was no
Speaker 1: conversation about it. You were just there and you didn't
Speaker 1: recoil in horror when I threw up, like you were
Speaker 1: okay with it.
Speaker 3: We watched Jury Duty and yes, and I kept giving
Speaker 3: you saltines you were very excited about. But you know,
Speaker 3: obviously I care about what's.
Speaker 4: Going on with you, and you know it's a lot,
Speaker 4: and you're so brave and you're dealing with so much,
Speaker 4: but you know everybody around you is talking to you
Speaker 4: about that, you know, And I just feel like, you know,
Speaker 4: if you wanted to talk to me about it, you'd
Speaker 4: call me and talk to me about it.
Speaker 1: I also think that, like we have a sort of
Speaker 1: bond and a mutual comrade because we both lost our
Speaker 1: fathers and you were, like me, extremely close with your dad.
Speaker 3: We lost our fathers for the same thing. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: both you know, kidney dialysis. Yeah, you lost your father
Speaker 3: like right before we met, right, I think so. And
Speaker 3: then I lost my dad four years ago, and I
Speaker 3: remember we were talking. We talked a lot about that
Speaker 3: stuff too.
Speaker 2: We dealt with that, we did.
Speaker 1: So I just think that anybody who I don't know
Speaker 1: your relationship with your parents, like I love that. I
Speaker 1: have a deep love and respect for someone who cares
Speaker 1: so deeply for their own family.
Speaker 3: To touch on the cancer things. One thing that is
Speaker 3: hard because we don't talk about it, because it's very
Speaker 3: hard seeing the updates of how you're doing in like
Speaker 3: have lords versus hearing about it from you because anytime
Speaker 3: something comes out, but I.
Speaker 1: Always like, but that's just you know, it's a regurgitation
Speaker 1: of something that you know, I've said three months prior,
Speaker 1: six months prior, it's you know, them just putting a
Speaker 1: new spin on it or somebody selling a story or whatever.
Speaker 3: But like the weirdest thing about that is when that
Speaker 3: happens whenever a story comes out, like the people want
Speaker 3: any of the things that come out. People don't like
Speaker 3: text me and say hey, how's Shannon doing. Everybody just
Speaker 3: sends I'll get like forty people that just send me
Speaker 3: the articles if I haven't seen it before.
Speaker 1: You know, my brother got the same thing, like a
Speaker 1: bunch of people sending him the article and then like
Speaker 1: calling him and I was like, Sean, it's it's what
Speaker 1: I told you about.
Speaker 3: You know, when we were when we were in Texas.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like you know, so uh, you know someone who
Speaker 1: has cared for a loved one that was sick, Like,
Speaker 1: what are the challenges in that for you or that
Speaker 1: we're there for you? And how how has that impacted
Speaker 1: you and maybe it hasn't, Like did it impact you
Speaker 1: in the way that you deal with people? Has it
Speaker 1: impacted on a personal level, Has it impacted your work
Speaker 1: at all?
Speaker 3: I mean I think that it's definitely impacted my work.
Speaker 3: As you know, when you lose somebody that you love,
Speaker 3: there's a piece.
Speaker 2: Of you that yeah, and.
Speaker 3: It's and it's gone, you know, and you know that
Speaker 3: pain exists and it never goes away because it's the
Speaker 3: reminder of who they were and how important.
Speaker 4: They were to you.
Speaker 3: Like I mean, I find myself still randomly hearing a
Speaker 3: song that will make me cry and I'll think about
Speaker 3: my dad and it's overwhelming to deal with. And it's
Speaker 3: that piece of you is missing. And you know, there's
Speaker 3: whenevery something exciting happens, you want to call and talk
Speaker 3: to them. When something you know sad happens, you want
Speaker 3: to call and talk to them, and you can. And
Speaker 3: it's hard to have real conversations with people. I never
Speaker 3: wish this upon them, of them losing somebody they love
Speaker 3: like that, it's hard to really relate on some levels
Speaker 3: with a lot of people that don't understand what you're
Speaker 3: actually going through and what that is, you know. I
Speaker 3: think I dealt with a lot when my dad was
Speaker 3: sick because I was like his medical proxy, Like I
Speaker 3: made all of his medical decisions because he was not
Speaker 3: able to do that himself in the last year when
Speaker 3: and so like I had to make all those decisions
Speaker 3: and I had to be the one to tell them
Speaker 3: to take them off of the life support and sign
Speaker 3: the you know, the do not resuscitate and all that stuff.
Speaker 3: And you know, the weirdest thing about that is even
Speaker 3: though all these doctors tell you it's the right thing
Speaker 3: to do, and you do that, and then you know,
Speaker 3: you still have this feeling of like, did I did
Speaker 3: I kill them? Did I did the choices I make
Speaker 3: kill them? If I had held out a month longer,
Speaker 3: would they have recovered? Like? Did I murder the person
Speaker 3: that I love? And I know that's like a weird
Speaker 3: thought process to have, but because you have that responsibility
Speaker 3: and you took that responsibility, it's hard not to think
Speaker 3: like that, Yeah, that's definitely affected it. And also just
Speaker 3: you know, like I don't want the pain of losing
Speaker 3: my dad to go away because it shows me how
Speaker 3: important he wants to be. It's not a pain of
Speaker 3: always like I'm not in agony as I walk down
Speaker 3: the street, but things remind me of him, and I
Speaker 3: will feel that sadness, and I think that it's important.
Speaker 1: And it's almost honoring them and honoring the relationship that
Speaker 1: you have and how much you loved them. It's it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, I miss my dad every single second of
Speaker 1: the day. I don't cry every single day anymore, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I miss him. And there are moments when I hear
Speaker 1: a song or you know, a certain food is being cooked,
Speaker 1: or there's something that you know would love a joke,
Speaker 1: and I can see my dad like laughing so hard
Speaker 1: that tears would pour down his face, right because that's
Speaker 1: that was his kind of laughter. And that's what gets me.
Speaker 1: That's what like those painful moments. But like you said,
Speaker 1: it's not consistently like that, you're in agony, but it
Speaker 1: just again shows like your love and your relationship with
Speaker 1: your father and how important that was. So how has
Speaker 1: that impacted maybe you and your work.
Speaker 3: Well, it's impacted me, as you know, because I used
Speaker 3: to write all the stuff that I directed, and I
Speaker 3: stopped writing because the last thing that I was writing,
Speaker 3: I was writing with him, and he made me promise
Speaker 3: I would finish it if he died. And he died,
Speaker 3: and I have still not finished it because you know,
Speaker 3: sitting and finishing that. I sat like in front of
Speaker 3: the keyboard to finish it, and it's just like I'm
Speaker 3: not ready to finish it, you know. And it's so
Speaker 3: silly because it was not even like it's just like
Speaker 3: a cheesy horror movie. It was not a deep project
Speaker 3: like I wanted to be deep now because but.
Speaker 1: You only your promise to him was that you would
Speaker 1: finish it. It wasn't that you wouldn't write anything else.
Speaker 1: It was just that you would finish that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, but it's like that. It's hard for
Speaker 3: me to not I understand.
Speaker 1: But maybe, just maybe this is not the first time
Speaker 1: I've had this conversation with you.
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, but now we're doing it on a podcas.
Speaker 2: We'm going to do it on a podcast. It give
Speaker 2: some extra pressure here.
Speaker 1: Maybe just maybe if you write something else, it will
Speaker 1: free you up to finish what you two started together.
Speaker 1: Maybe I just want to say to you that on
Speaker 1: a professional level, I always really.
Speaker 2: Love working with you.
Speaker 1: I think that you're, you know, very giving, I think
Speaker 1: that you're very talented, and on a personal level, I
Speaker 1: you know, deeply, deeply, deeply appreciate how much you have
Speaker 1: you know, supported me. And I'm not talking about career.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about like going through cancer and going through
Speaker 1: divorce and heartbreak and you know, making me laugh, calling
Speaker 1: me drunk at one am, asking me to marry you.
Speaker 3: What sorry. That goes both ways. That goes both That
Speaker 3: goes both ways. If you have called me drunk before
Speaker 3: and asked me.
Speaker 1: To marry you have I have never drunk on anybody
Speaker 1: in my life.
Speaker 3: You are a lot.
Speaker 1: But the other thing I am going to say is
Speaker 1: that you, just like you promised your dad, you have promised.
Speaker 3: That I would write you a script. I know, I know,
Speaker 3: I know, I know, and.
Speaker 2: I did say it has to be before I die.
Speaker 3: This is a whole podcast, so you've got to get
Speaker 3: on it. This is a whole podcast.
Speaker 1: We just have to figure out if it's like a
Speaker 1: hardcore drama or if we're doing like an old Lady
Speaker 1: john Wick.
Speaker 3: I've already kind of figured out what.
Speaker 2: I is it more like the old Lady john Wick.
Speaker 3: That's what you want it to be. But it's going
Speaker 3: to be a hardcore drama that has an old Lady
Speaker 3: john Wick thing going on it.
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's going to be brilliant and we're.
Speaker 3: Going to talk about it. But I have this really
Speaker 3: like on the drive out here, I have this really
Speaker 3: cool idea. Oh, so we'll talk about.
Speaker 2: It, so I can expect to see it on my
Speaker 2: desk in ten days.
Speaker 3: What what? What that one over there, the one that
Speaker 3: you use for video games? You mean your game desk.
Speaker 2: I don't game anymore. I gave it all up.
Speaker 3: You gave it all up. Oh wow, it sounds like
Speaker 3: I gave it all up. I know longer.
Speaker 1: On the game side, that was like a very good
Speaker 1: COVID distraction, right, people were making learning how to make
Speaker 1: sourdough bread, and I was learning how to game.
Speaker 3: Because you already knew how to make sourdough bread.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, but I didn't want to learn any more
Speaker 1: cooking skills. I simply wanted to learn how to be
Speaker 1: the ultimate gamer.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I did come up short. I'm not the ultimate gamer.
Speaker 1: It takes like a thirteen year old. Yeah, Like those
Speaker 1: kids are so good at that.
Speaker 3: But I feel like you kind of like I remember
Speaker 3: there was there was times where like we were hanging
Speaker 3: out and you were You're like looking at your phone
Speaker 3: and I'm like, what are you doing. You're like, I'm
Speaker 3: just looking at you know, the stats on my game
Speaker 3: from like over here, and You're like, I might need
Speaker 3: to leave, I might need to go back and like
Speaker 3: up these stats on this, And I'm like, are you
Speaker 3: serious right now? Shannon.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean listen, when I commit, I commit. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm one committed to everything that I do, but mainly
Speaker 1: my friendship with you. I love you very much and
Speaker 1: thanks for driving to Malivan. Are you ready for some pizza?
Speaker 3: Let's have some pizza?
Speaker 1: All right, let's get to it. You guys, thank you
Speaker 1: for listening to Let's be clear with Shannon Doherty and
Speaker 1: we're gonna go cook some pizza now.
Speaker 2: Bye bye