Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast coming in you shirtless,
Speaker 1: severely fog bitten in my case, underwear listening podcast. You
Speaker 1: can't predict anything. That's nice, thank you. Uh what do
Speaker 1: you find like? You know a lot of bulls have
Speaker 1: crazy bugles? Yeah, I mean they're they're spread across the
Speaker 1: board from just sometimes you have some bull he's like, ah,
Speaker 1: you know the ones it sound like they broke their
Speaker 1: larynx somehow. Yeah. We were in not to diverge too quick,
Speaker 1: too fast. But I was in the Bob Marshall in
Speaker 1: two thousand and twelve and the places untouched basically in
Speaker 1: some of these areas, and we have a bold of
Speaker 1: bagle that sounds like an owl that I would have
Speaker 1: never believed that if he didn't answer me like five,
Speaker 1: you know, within that five second range. And he did
Speaker 1: it again and it was like an owl hooting. I'm
Speaker 1: like what, Then you give me an example. I almost
Speaker 1: can and then this could just do it without a call,
Speaker 1: but just do it, or come as close as you
Speaker 1: can to mimick you what he's doing, but not even
Speaker 1: really that thump, it's just kind of an owl hoot sound.
Speaker 1: And then on that same day we walked a half
Speaker 1: mile down the ridge and one sound like a donkey
Speaker 1: and it did it twice like a heehaw the type sound.
Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, this is I felt like I was
Speaker 1: in some crazy land like this, These aren't elk anymore.
Speaker 1: But we called them both into twenty five yards and like,
Speaker 1: you know, they were elk? Can they bagle that way?
Speaker 1: The whole way in just crazy when you're out, you know.
Speaker 1: That's kind of what I guess I'm getting at is
Speaker 1: like we talked about this bunch of this spring when
Speaker 1: we were all hot on talking about turkeys. Is you know,
Speaker 1: you work so hard to get the right sounds, you know,
Speaker 1: you work so hard to get like high level turkey calm,
Speaker 1: like which I'm not great at. But then when you're
Speaker 1: out in the turkey woods, birds will come in doing
Speaker 1: stuff that you know, Yeah, it's just crazy. Like we
Speaker 1: had a guy after we had this conversation, We had
Speaker 1: a guy send us a video. It was the hand
Speaker 1: that comes in and like, um, not think he yelled
Speaker 1: like twenty seven times in a row. Oh, I thought
Speaker 1: it was in the sixties. Was it just just like
Speaker 1: where everybody's like, well, you should never yep more than
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, and if and if we sat and
Speaker 1: if we sat out in the woods and we're leaning
Speaker 1: against a tree, and my body's gonna start calm, and
Speaker 1: he gets going and he hits sixty. Right, if you're
Speaker 1: looking at like, what in the world are you doing
Speaker 1: so in the bugle and thing like when you're ripping
Speaker 1: bugles like that, do you mess around with doing the
Speaker 1: crazy ones or do you think it works? Like do
Speaker 1: you think it's it works best to have like that
Speaker 1: clean really like quintessential escalating topped out pitch bugle, like
Speaker 1: the perfect bugle sold you rip crazy bugles too. So
Speaker 1: when I'm locating, So that's just my standard. Walking down
Speaker 1: the ridge line, I try to get that high note
Speaker 1: that rings your ears, and I do that one the
Speaker 1: same every time, you know, call me boring vanilla ice cream.
Speaker 1: Just I'm gonna get the high note. I'm gonna get
Speaker 1: high note. I'm gona get the high note. But once
Speaker 1: I get in on a bowl, then I try to
Speaker 1: And that's where I think becoming a good caller may help,
Speaker 1: is I try to mimic that bowl exactly. If he
Speaker 1: is that weird donkey bowl or whatever, I might mimic
Speaker 1: him or really if he gets that crazy. Maybe not,
Speaker 1: but most of your bowls that I would say within
Speaker 1: your general sounds like if they're a lip baller, which
Speaker 1: is the bugle I just did that real KNOCKI bugle
Speaker 1: through the center. If they're a high note with two chuckles,
Speaker 1: I try to match him. Um. So I just try
Speaker 1: to kind of match the bowl. I'm trying to call
Speaker 1: in and mimic him, um once we get once we
Speaker 1: get into that situation. But but for my location bugles,
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to just get something to answer. I'm
Speaker 1: pretty just playing Jane two or three note as high
Speaker 1: as I can get, you know, sent it down the
Speaker 1: canyon and then listen. If you had the okay, if
Speaker 1: you had to choose for locating note, if I said,
Speaker 1: you can bring your bronocular, you can bring optics, or
Speaker 1: you can bring a bugle man, that's a good question.
Speaker 1: So all of and and all the seminars, I do
Speaker 1: my preferred way to spot them. I'm gonna give you
Speaker 1: the easiest answer ever here. I'm gonna tell you why
Speaker 1: each I would give it to me from the game
Speaker 1: caller perspective, No, I would love I would much rather
Speaker 1: spot elk with my binoculars any day over top of
Speaker 1: of you know, than than locating with the bugle. That way,
Speaker 1: they don't know him in the world. I can sit
Speaker 1: and watch them and figure out what's going on a point.
Speaker 1: But if I had to leave my locator bugle, if
Speaker 1: I can't spot them within the first half hour of
Speaker 1: the day, then I'm screwed because now I need that
Speaker 1: that location bugle the rest of the you know, for
Speaker 1: the next two or three hours of that morning to
Speaker 1: try to get something going. So neither of them are good.
Speaker 1: But I would say, man, I would probably leave the
Speaker 1: optics if I had to pick, I'd take the location bugle. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And and again did I any two things that would
Speaker 1: be major factors would be like is it September or
Speaker 1: is it November? Right, I'm talking like yeah, So I'm
Speaker 1: the only reason I'm hoping that if I bring my
Speaker 1: location bugle, you neither spot them with naked eye. Is
Speaker 1: their elk out in the middle of opening hopefully close
Speaker 1: or they're gonna be sounding off on their own, So
Speaker 1: I don't want to necessarily leave that location bugle at
Speaker 1: the truck all my binoculars. Yeah, And to add to that,
Speaker 1: I feel like again we're gonna make a lot of
Speaker 1: uh call that call us the turkeys. But like both
Speaker 1: of those animals are like much like sort of more
Speaker 1: fun and easier to hunt when they're making sounds and
Speaker 1: when they clam up, You're like, it's completely two different things, right,
Speaker 1: And sometimes with elk you really have to be hammering
Speaker 1: to get them to start talking. You know, what are
Speaker 1: the when you do uh standard your standard locat or bugle? Well, first,
Speaker 1: can you explain what you mean by locator bugle just
Speaker 1: so people who are tracking, so you know, and we
Speaker 1: can get into the science. And I don't claim to know,
Speaker 1: but I don't even mean like I'm gonna have you
Speaker 1: dissect a bugle, But I mean, like when you say
Speaker 1: like locating, just tell people what you mean by that. So, uh,
Speaker 1: it's the idea that I'm gonna pronounce that I'm gonna elk.
Speaker 1: I'm up here on this ridgeline and I'm just looking
Speaker 1: for a response. And it's kind of a territorial thing
Speaker 1: that Herd Bowl or even that other satellite bowl. You say, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm up here, I'm and he'll answer him down here
Speaker 1: kind of that Marco Polo game, you know, so to speak,
Speaker 1: like Marco Polo. All right, now I got you. That's
Speaker 1: you know, you didn't know I wasn't real ELX. And
Speaker 1: now I can start the game, you know, figure out
Speaker 1: where the wins at. And so you're just looking for
Speaker 1: a response. You're not trying to call him in, you're
Speaker 1: not trying to threaten him, scare him anything. At that point,
Speaker 1: it's just kind of a yeah, just a quick clean
Speaker 1: all right, now I gotta I gotta pin on you.
Speaker 1: We'll figure out how to try to get on you know.
Speaker 1: And that raises a couple other questions, Uh, real quick,
Speaker 1: tell people what a satellite bowl is. So satellite bowl, Um,
Speaker 1: it's just that bowl that's kind of hanging close to
Speaker 1: that herd bowl. The herd bulls typically they've got their
Speaker 1: pecking order figured out. That herd bowl any where from
Speaker 1: you know, it could be a single cow, two cows
Speaker 1: in some places when the bull of cow ratio is
Speaker 1: high all the way down to in my area and
Speaker 1: coastal Washington, you have herds of thirty and it's not
Speaker 1: even unheard of to to have more cows than that.
Speaker 1: One big boss bull is kind of running the show, yea,
Speaker 1: or like the you know there's like a lead cow running.
Speaker 1: There's a lead cow who's saying like we're going here,
Speaker 1: but pestering them and crawling them and defending them from
Speaker 1: all comers. Yeah, she's held the chief bull. Yeah, she
Speaker 1: tells them where they're going. He kind of tells them
Speaker 1: how they're going to get there. Um was going to
Speaker 1: come along, yeah, Yeah, and he keeps them rounded up.
Speaker 1: But then these satellite bulls are you're, you know, subordinate,
Speaker 1: submature sometimes even mature bulls. You know, if you get
Speaker 1: into some of these spots, you might have a giant
Speaker 1: satellite bowl body wise and age wise, maturity wise, but
Speaker 1: that herd bowls big enough and more dominant enough to
Speaker 1: keep them just kind of on the shadows of this herd. Well,
Speaker 1: what happens throughout the day and throughout September, these satellite
Speaker 1: bowls coming and try to pick off a cow or
Speaker 1: two from him, and so this herd bull spends a
Speaker 1: ton of time like running them off. And you know,
Speaker 1: when you run off the satellite bowl and now there's
Speaker 1: you know, there's sometimes multiple satellite bowls. They're they're coming
Speaker 1: to pestor from the opposite direction, almost like they're working
Speaker 1: against him. The you know, pick cows out of his herd.
Speaker 1: So you got these satellite bowls, and it becomes very
Speaker 1: very fun el cunning when that happens, because that herd
Speaker 1: bowl becomes very very active, very very talkative. The satellite
Speaker 1: bowls get very very talkative and active, and it kind
Speaker 1: of creates that that frenzy that that just you know,
Speaker 1: I've heard about. I haven't seen his personally, but I've
Speaker 1: heard guys talk about like a herd bowl being so
Speaker 1: fixated on chasing and harassing other bowls that they're watching
Speaker 1: as all these other bulls are slipping in and breathing
Speaker 1: a cow, and instead of just like breeding the cow,
Speaker 1: he just can't help himself but just chase everyone all
Speaker 1: over the place and just open himself up to having
Speaker 1: like the very thing he's trying to prevent from happening,
Speaker 1: he's basically allowing it to happen by running other bulls
Speaker 1: a hundred yards in some direction all the time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we've watched him from across the canyon. It's almost
Speaker 1: like they pay they've got that herd bull will pick
Speaker 1: out one or two. He really doesn't like, you know,
Speaker 1: like us, you got his worst enemy and he'll spend
Speaker 1: more time to let those other bulls get so much
Speaker 1: closer to his herd and spend more time on that
Speaker 1: one bulle. It seems like, man, you're just you're letting
Speaker 1: these other ones slip in. It's just I don't know
Speaker 1: what goes through their head. But some are yeah, some
Speaker 1: are like they're like fighters and that lovers. What So,
Speaker 1: what do you think about this? Like, if you're out locating,
Speaker 1: can you i, you know, presume you'd like to be
Speaker 1: up high where you can broadcast down as much ground
Speaker 1: as you can when you see a bull trying to
Speaker 1: think of how to ask this. A bull doesn't go
Speaker 1: up high. A real bull doesn't go up high and
Speaker 1: rip out vehicles just to see who's out on the landscape. Right,
Speaker 1: he's doing something different. He's not like, hey, where are
Speaker 1: you because I'm gonna come four yards over that direction
Speaker 1: to beat your ass? You know, Like what is he
Speaker 1: communicating when he's bugling? So well, we're trying to mimic,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, with that ridge running you know or
Speaker 1: fire road running whatever that that get high so you
Speaker 1: can really use you know, the terraindeer advantage. Satellite bowls
Speaker 1: will do that especially those somewhat mature satellite bowls or
Speaker 1: the they will run ridges looking for those cows. And
Speaker 1: so when we have the chance to hunt, what are
Speaker 1: they doing? What are they bugling for? They're just trying
Speaker 1: to locate cows in the real world, US removed that
Speaker 1: satellite bowls running looking for like, hey, I'm here and
Speaker 1: and and and you know, without us being involved, that
Speaker 1: cow would come to him. Also, you think they really
Speaker 1: are up there cruising, bugling and bugling trying to find elk,
Speaker 1: not just bugling as a way of being I have them, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean we've long. I'm gonna hang onto him. We
Speaker 1: were in the Blues and four two thou fourteen down
Speaker 1: there in southeast Washington, where it's a little bit different
Speaker 1: of a special draw um, the elk are a lot
Speaker 1: more active, there's a lot more of them. We multiple
Speaker 1: on multiple occasions we would be in the timber and
Speaker 1: heard that happen where you could hear a bull run
Speaker 1: a finger ridge up, run the main ridge out, run
Speaker 1: a finger ridge down. And he was just biggling as
Speaker 1: fast as he could run by himself. And we ended
Speaker 1: up calling him in um and calling that bulling, and
Speaker 1: the shooter missed it a couple of times. Um, we
Speaker 1: watched it across stalking the Blues in Washington. We watched
Speaker 1: the same thing across the way. You would watch a
Speaker 1: herd bull just and you could hear him. You would
Speaker 1: watch him just run a ridgeline and big ol every
Speaker 1: couple hundred yards. I think he was just flat out
Speaker 1: looking for cows. He had none, Um, just just running ridges,
Speaker 1: looking for looking for So he's like a like a
Speaker 1: boss gobbler out. I was just gonna say, it's amazing
Speaker 1: this similarity. Yanni doesn't like it when people say he
Speaker 1: doesn't like when people say that el Khuntin's like turkey hunt. No, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: doesn't like it because admittedly there are some enormous differences.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, just the gut pile, right, just the gun alone. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a little different. Yeah, some of these Western hunters, some
Speaker 1: of us Western hunters, not us me included, but some
Speaker 1: people have some issues with that, that comparison the whole
Speaker 1: elk versus turkey. But but as far as the but
Speaker 1: there's more dude, more dudes on turkeys than hunt elk.
Speaker 1: And when you're hunting turkeys, you're out being like there's
Speaker 1: a vocal male. Okay, there's a vocal male who's territorial,
Speaker 1: who doesn't like other males, who wants hends to come
Speaker 1: to him. You're making the noise of females. It's like,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but there's like some similarities more
Speaker 1: than in duck hunting. No one says el cons like
Speaker 1: duck hunting. No as far. I think you're you're exactly
Speaker 1: on point as far as the calling aspects and kind
Speaker 1: of what's going through your head, what's going through their head.
Speaker 1: They're pretty dang close, you know. I think the the
Speaker 1: similarities are you know, the train you're in, maybe how
Speaker 1: difficult the hunt is. But there's there's some tough turkey
Speaker 1: hunting right because all these things and and it's funny
Speaker 1: because I wouldn't like, let's say I hung out with
Speaker 1: some dude who uh had always hunted elk okay, and
Speaker 1: he thought for his first turkey hunt, I wouldn't be like, bro,
Speaker 1: it's just like hunt right, It only goes to the
Speaker 1: other direction because it's you're trying to invite people who
Speaker 1: have a familiarity. You know, the millions of individuals who
Speaker 1: have a familiarity with turkey hunting. You're kind of just
Speaker 1: trying to invite them to start thinking about the whole thing.
Speaker 1: So it's not meant to be an insult. Like I said,
Speaker 1: you know you can throw the turkey's gut pile in
Speaker 1: your pocket. In your back pocket, yeah, ok, you have
Speaker 1: a wheelbarrel for that. A lot of the lot of
Speaker 1: the tactics, I feel like if you're strictly talking the hunting,
Speaker 1: the calling, it's pretty similar. But back to the cow.
Speaker 1: So responding to I twice had it running ridges bug
Speaker 1: went away and a bugle and like the last thing
Speaker 1: you think you're gonna hear is yeah, and sure enough,
Speaker 1: like you know, less than a hundred yards away, I
Speaker 1: have a cow answer me her coming into the bugle.
Speaker 1: But what's interesting both times that happened, I mean it
Speaker 1: was right on the back end of that cow call
Speaker 1: is then the bull that was with her went. I
Speaker 1: was like yeah, yeah, And both times I heard crashing
Speaker 1: away that that bull took that cow, was like, we're
Speaker 1: going that direction, came up, poked her and took her
Speaker 1: the other way. So let me ask you this, then,
Speaker 1: both of you guys, have you seen many instances when
Speaker 1: you're out ridge running what do you call it you
Speaker 1: just out locating on the ridges ridge running? Have you
Speaker 1: called in many bullss cows doing that? Not? I mean,
Speaker 1: we have not a lot. Um I say, you're just
Speaker 1: looking for that location, because typically we get that location beagle,
Speaker 1: we bail off towards him. But no, I would say
Speaker 1: what I'm after? Yeah, yeah, if that's the way that
Speaker 1: real life works. No, And I think I think even
Speaker 1: the satellite bowl, and it's just my own thoughts on it,
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of loose cows running, you know,
Speaker 1: or unhearded up cows runner out, I think. But for
Speaker 1: that satellite bulls, it's worth that last ditch effort to
Speaker 1: run those ridges and just see what's out there. Um.
Speaker 1: Another thing the reason that and they could be very
Speaker 1: similar to us, that that somewhat mature stellite bowl could
Speaker 1: be looking for a different herd. Like, hey, I can't
Speaker 1: take that guy down there's cows because he's a big
Speaker 1: you know, he's the toughest guy on the mountain. But
Speaker 1: maybe there's a herd bull on the either side or
Speaker 1: down here in a different pocket that's maybe not as tough,
Speaker 1: and I have a chance at him, you know. So
Speaker 1: there's there may be a couple of different reasons. He
Speaker 1: may be he's searching for you know, loose cows or
Speaker 1: or a different herd bull to go try to fight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's easy for me to picture, is that he's just
Speaker 1: out ripping bugles and when he hears something, he's like,
Speaker 1: what That'll gonna go there and have a look, see
Speaker 1: what's going on. Maybe some dinky little ship and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna yep, claub room and then he'll be up running
Speaker 1: ridges and I'll be down here, yeah, playing grabbit. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he already did the hard work for me. He's got
Speaker 1: these things all rounded up. I just gotta scoop in.
Speaker 1: And that's my friend. Brandt would talk about open anchored Alaska.
Speaker 1: He would talk about these these uh big mallards that
Speaker 1: would hang around on campus where they had some open
Speaker 1: ponds and stuff, and they'd be out there and need
Speaker 1: to get fat, you know, these huge, big mallards, and
Speaker 1: then the migratory ducks would come up and they just
Speaker 1: be emaciated, you know from that long migration. You said,
Speaker 1: they'd land that big, that big local duck be like,
Speaker 1: I'll take them here, boys, just take over all the hands,
Speaker 1: you know, he's just totally fat and half. What are
Speaker 1: the um, what are the parts of a bugle? So there?
Speaker 1: Do you think about it that way? I do? And
Speaker 1: there's there's different ways to mix and match kind of that,
Speaker 1: there's your opening. You can um, you know a lot
Speaker 1: of the people start off with a growl or you know,
Speaker 1: a real but I say we should talk about real bulls.
Speaker 1: A real bowl will start off, you know, raspy or growley, which,
Speaker 1: um we can we can mimic with adding some voice
Speaker 1: in with our throat. Do the do the whole thing,
Speaker 1: and then we'll have you break out some parts. Let's
Speaker 1: just do because we haven't. We haven't had you ripped
Speaker 1: one since we start talking, So just kind of a
Speaker 1: hero we'll do a kind of a standard challenge. We
Speaker 1: all try to think about the different parts that are
Speaker 1: in there, at least what I do, and then we'll
Speaker 1: come back and try to explain them. I'm gonna try
Speaker 1: to count how many parts I think are in there.
Speaker 1: I like that and man, because when you're watch someone
Speaker 1: do it and you see his belly just drop kissing
Speaker 1: all over themselves and yeah, like when they get like that, man,
Speaker 1: they looked like they'd be eating meat pictures like killing
Speaker 1: a rabbit meat when their belly just going, and it's
Speaker 1: like you're like, yeah, at some point you'd switch diet.
Speaker 1: It's almost man. So you got like the yeah, there's
Speaker 1: not opening, which I typically don't do the grally. I
Speaker 1: usually just start clean clean into the escalation. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then you kind of you kind of transition really quick
Speaker 1: into your high note, so you can kind of there's
Speaker 1: a intro the transition into the high note. I hold.
Speaker 1: I try to hold the high note for you know,
Speaker 1: one or two seconds, and it depends on what people
Speaker 1: maybe we should should Just there's that location biogle, which
Speaker 1: is just a two or three note high note, and
Speaker 1: then quitch. There's only maybe two or three parts of
Speaker 1: the location the challenge Biegle I just did. And then
Speaker 1: halfway through that high no, I try to drop my
Speaker 1: voice back into the call, so he and then you
Speaker 1: try to like get growlly there towards the end. And
Speaker 1: that's just kind of my idea of adding some aggression
Speaker 1: back in. And then I finished with the grint, so intro,
Speaker 1: get to the high note, add some voice back in,
Speaker 1: either finished with some chuckles, grunts, or you can just
Speaker 1: kind of pop the bagle off and end it there.
Speaker 1: And you found, like on the locations, like when you're
Speaker 1: doing locators, you found that that that like extending prolonging
Speaker 1: that highness, the high note, can fire them up more
Speaker 1: than when you don't I would say extending it, I
Speaker 1: would say, it's it's that tony reach. Get making sure
Speaker 1: you get that tone that hits your ears, because it
Speaker 1: gets to somehow gets their attention. I don't like to
Speaker 1: be in the length of it. I actually don't like
Speaker 1: to be that long. I want to be like two
Speaker 1: or three seconds, because there's a chance of that bull
Speaker 1: may do a weird grunt or do like a weird
Speaker 1: little answer, or a cow may answer somewhere in there,
Speaker 1: and if I'm ripping a bagle, I can't necessarily hear that,
Speaker 1: you know. Like some of those those ones in the
Speaker 1: Bob Marshall, for instance, they were very quick because I
Speaker 1: don't know if they've ever heard a bugle in their
Speaker 1: life or you know, or there's not a lot and
Speaker 1: they were answering like literally I would barely catch a
Speaker 1: tail end of their responses and what the heck was
Speaker 1: that again? You know? So you want to keep that
Speaker 1: bagle in my opinion two to three seconds and then listen.
Speaker 1: But but talk about what you were telling me with
Speaker 1: you and a buddy watch and elk and trying to
Speaker 1: get them to respond, which which story was that you
Speaker 1: were talking about. You guys were doing different types of bugles,
Speaker 1: and there's a certain sitch and there were certain types
Speaker 1: of bugles that would make them fire up and something
Speaker 1: he would ignore. Yeah, So we running areas. It's obvious
Speaker 1: is we're running these ridgelines, Like there's elk here. You
Speaker 1: can see fresh tracks, you could smell, and they smell
Speaker 1: like a one of those big black markers. You know
Speaker 1: that you could they just have a unique smell. You're like, man,
Speaker 1: there are elk here. They can hear us from right here.
Speaker 1: They were here this morning. It's like a barnyard with
Speaker 1: like kind of sweet nice Yeah. And then the big bulls,
Speaker 1: I think when they're flat out going, there's those big
Speaker 1: like super forty four black markers that have that just
Speaker 1: pungent smell. That's what I always imagine, like there's a
Speaker 1: there's a big bowl here somewhere. That's when you said it, man,
Speaker 1: because I always say that analo like prong horn animal,
Speaker 1: they smell like freed dole a corn chips man. When
Speaker 1: you put your nose up to their for you know,
Speaker 1: black mark or for Elk, Yeah, black big, that big
Speaker 1: Magnum forty four mark or whatever the heck it is.
Speaker 1: It's like that anyways, that's just what I think. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, and that hunt. We knew they were Elk,
Speaker 1: and so I, me and my buddy were just experimenting, like, hey,
Speaker 1: you bigle. He's not quite as loud as me, but
Speaker 1: bagle and then but don't get the high note, like
Speaker 1: just stay somewhere in the middle. And he would do
Speaker 1: that and nothing. We he'd maybe let him do it twice,
Speaker 1: and then I would come in with the high note
Speaker 1: that just kind of rattles your ears, rattles your buddies ears,
Speaker 1: makes you kind of want to plug your ears during
Speaker 1: that bighgle because it's just that resonance, is that one
Speaker 1: that drones in your ears? And we get an instant
Speaker 1: response like all right, let's let's do this scientifically. We
Speaker 1: need to switch up. So next time I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: just hit a mundane mid note, just boring, and then
Speaker 1: you'll hit the high note just to make sure it's
Speaker 1: not volume or something else that would one and sure enough, uh,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't get a response on a mid note vehicle.
Speaker 1: He hit the high note and bam, just the instant response.
Speaker 1: And and it's I think there's very very good data
Speaker 1: just from our own selves. And when you hear a
Speaker 1: lot of hunters like yeah, until I can get that
Speaker 1: high note, we just don't get responses. It's just something
Speaker 1: about it that makes them pay attention to you. Maybe
Speaker 1: it it penetrates better, you know, through the through the
Speaker 1: thick brush, it it travels better. Something is better about
Speaker 1: it that that gets him. Maybe it's just internally, like
Speaker 1: they hear that note and like I am gonna answer
Speaker 1: that one. Yeah, because that that's the funny thing about
Speaker 1: Like you'll never know what kind of tripped around. You'll
Speaker 1: never know, like like when they hear it, what are
Speaker 1: they hearing? I've renched this for while. I saw a
Speaker 1: new friend of mine who's done a lot of research
Speaker 1: on turkeys. Right, he's talking about the iridescence of birds,
Speaker 1: you know, and he he believes that when a bird
Speaker 1: looks at a bird, it sees something very different then
Speaker 1: when you look at a bird, you know what I mean. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like you can't compare your impression of what a
Speaker 1: turkey looks like walking through the woods to what it
Speaker 1: might look like a turkey with his vision, what's in
Speaker 1: his mind, the iridescence of the feathers, the way he
Speaker 1: picks up that color, and it's like it's just two
Speaker 1: different worlds. You know. Little things can sort of give
Speaker 1: you a glimpse into it, but you just don't know
Speaker 1: what kind of trip the around, how they're you don't
Speaker 1: know how they're like analyzing or processing. Yeah, the information around,
Speaker 1: and there's a there's a I kind of cater more
Speaker 1: to the temperament of the elk in my calling style.
Speaker 1: I kind of let the I react to them. Um
Speaker 1: there there are quite a few guys out there that have,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of broken down elk language or maybe
Speaker 1: what some of this stuff means, and they're successful, so
Speaker 1: I'm not necessarily going to argue with them. But I
Speaker 1: was kind of a nerd at this stuff when I
Speaker 1: was growing up, you know, eighteen, I spent way more
Speaker 1: time than a single person should ever spend just watching elk.
Speaker 1: You know, from mid September to mid October, back when
Speaker 1: I was a rifle slash mostlotor henter, I just want
Speaker 1: to know everyth about him. Why are they doing this?
Speaker 1: And I would just watch bowls day in and day out,
Speaker 1: and you know, some of these sounds that they say
Speaker 1: mean this, I'm like, but I've seen them do complete opposites.
Speaker 1: You know, when when he chuckles, that means that he's
Speaker 1: trying to round the cows up to take him somewhere else,
Speaker 1: Like well, I've seen a satellite bull come down the
Speaker 1: ridge and he went and chuckled at him. Like so
Speaker 1: some of these things like it. Maybe it may be,
Speaker 1: but it could just be his temperament, It could be
Speaker 1: the way he communicates. It could be. Um, so why,
Speaker 1: Like I said, they these guys have been successful, But
Speaker 1: I don't know if I necessarily it's that this sound
Speaker 1: means this, or this sound means you should do this.
Speaker 1: Um It's tough and I don't know if we'll ever
Speaker 1: figure it out. Can you do? I want you to
Speaker 1: make a the bark a warning bark? But then I
Speaker 1: also want to ask you, like in terms of people
Speaker 1: are like, oh, so chuckling, is this chuckling means I'm
Speaker 1: sending my calls? But he's like, well, I saw a
Speaker 1: bowl chuckle at another bowl. So maybe that's not what
Speaker 1: chuckling means. So do a warning call. But also tell me,
Speaker 1: have you ever seen a warning bark used for some
Speaker 1: thing besides saying, hey there's a kyoh, hey there's a dude. Hey,
Speaker 1: I smelled something funny. Do you want me to bugle first?
Speaker 1: Whatever do you want? Man? I hate that noise. I
Speaker 1: hate that noise when you make it. That's why in
Speaker 1: the seminars, I'm like, besides the wolf hound, and that's
Speaker 1: about the second least favorite sound I'd like to hear
Speaker 1: in my own in the spot with what was being first.
Speaker 1: But so that that sound, I probably I'm more confident
Speaker 1: in what that means. Uh. They typically when they smell you,
Speaker 1: they're gone that you don't even get the warning. But
Speaker 1: but it's one of these they've seen something they don't like,
Speaker 1: or they've heard something they don't like. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: if we're tromping around through the woods and we're cracking sticks,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you think you're an elkin, you know,
Speaker 1: you get hammered with an alarm bark. I think it's
Speaker 1: one of those sounds that and I'm fairly confident in
Speaker 1: this that they want you to show yourself at that point,
Speaker 1: like we've seen or heard something that doesn't make a
Speaker 1: lot of sense. We're a little bit worried about it.
Speaker 1: Come show yourself. And I think that's why in response
Speaker 1: to that alarm bark, I alarmed bark back, like why
Speaker 1: heard you? I heard you or I seen you. You
Speaker 1: Come show yourself. And a lot of times you can
Speaker 1: at least prolonged, prolong her running away or him running away,
Speaker 1: alarm bark in the rest of the canyon, letting everything know, hey,
Speaker 1: there's something weird going on over here. But sometimes we've
Speaker 1: been able to alarm bark and have like the cow
Speaker 1: come around the tree, you know, some stuff that could
Speaker 1: have potentially saved that if it was a bowler and
Speaker 1: elk I wanted to kill. Do you remember you think
Speaker 1: it can kind of almost confuse them because she is.
Speaker 1: I feel like most times it's cows. I've heard a
Speaker 1: couple most like they're they're saying one thing, and then
Speaker 1: when you bark back at them, they're kind of like,
Speaker 1: oh what, but I wasn't expecting that. Oh there's an
Speaker 1: elk bark and it kind of just like I've seen
Speaker 1: him not really relax but like you're saying instead of
Speaker 1: just like getting the hell out of dodge barking, they
Speaker 1: sort of just like end up just filtering slowly away
Speaker 1: and you maybe haven't blown your cover. Yeah, definitely confused
Speaker 1: white Tails and confused Antelope by doing their bark back
Speaker 1: at them, you know, and then they're kind of, yeah,
Speaker 1: they linger more. Yeah, they just kind of hang out.
Speaker 1: It's not necessarily you didn't save the whole situation, but
Speaker 1: it gives you a chance. But you know what, you
Speaker 1: remember those remember the bite and blow, like the premost
Speaker 1: biting and blow that everyone in the world had, like
Speaker 1: in the mid nineties. I think that that was like
Speaker 1: enough people had it and it made it just such
Speaker 1: a consistent sound every time I'm not joking when I
Speaker 1: say this, we would blow that and Coles would respond
Speaker 1: with an alarm bark. Yeah, they're like that means one thing.
Speaker 1: That means there's some dudes. There's some dudes in the
Speaker 1: woods Man And that was like that was having that
Speaker 1: experience a couple of times of like get all set up,
Speaker 1: everything's perfect, winds perfect called bulling, and hit that you
Speaker 1: know on that bit and blow then be answered by dude.
Speaker 1: It set us back, I say before you try men
Speaker 1: on this that Like I had that call, I might
Speaker 1: might even be in that tough where over there, and
Speaker 1: I could just never master it. I could never get
Speaker 1: it good. It was just like it was too finicky,
Speaker 1: you know. It was kind of like you never could
Speaker 1: like these external reason you make now, I mean you can,
Speaker 1: like you gotta be good to use them. I think
Speaker 1: people like that because you could be a shitty caller
Speaker 1: and kind of making noise, but every every shitty caller
Speaker 1: was making the same shitty noise and that same thing
Speaker 1: and necessarily wasn't making a good noise. Yeah, and that's
Speaker 1: that's like my dad he can't he still can't use
Speaker 1: my easy estress, you know, everybody else in the world can.
Speaker 1: But he could use the bite and blow. So, like
Speaker 1: Steve said, you throw him one of those. I gotta
Speaker 1: use bit and blow on it. You're you're good. Bit
Speaker 1: and blows are like crossbows. Right. It's like some dudes
Speaker 1: be like, man, I don't really have time to figure
Speaker 1: all this ship out, right, I'm just gonna get one
Speaker 1: of the holes and go hack it out. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: ran around with the I think it was the Loman
Speaker 1: version of the Little Green barreled one the bite and
Speaker 1: blow and that that's what I used growing up rifle hunting,
Speaker 1: just to stop one or but yeah, you could not
Speaker 1: change what you sounded like. You sounded like everybody else
Speaker 1: I had one, Yeah, and they just tune in, especially
Speaker 1: if you're not pressure area. But that's pretty interesting man,
Speaker 1: that you've I would never in a million years thought
Speaker 1: to hit him back with the warning bark. Yeah, do
Speaker 1: you guys call it a bark in your in your
Speaker 1: alarm bark? And we've we've had enough experiences where we tried, like,
Speaker 1: let's just mut at him, and that seems to never
Speaker 1: work as good as alarm bark. So we've we've experimented,
Speaker 1: like what if we call back to them, maybe they
Speaker 1: just want to hear that there's an elk. It was
Speaker 1: an elk that made the sound. So if I make
Speaker 1: a good enough elk sound, though, but it doesn't settle
Speaker 1: them down as much as the alarm bark. A pretty
Speaker 1: committed to the idea that something's amiss man. A funny
Speaker 1: thing about elk too, I'd be curious to get your
Speaker 1: perspective on this is it seems like like if you
Speaker 1: picture a group of white tails, I feel that the
Speaker 1: hierarchy in a group of white tails isn't as I'm
Speaker 1: talking to females, so does like white tailed, does I
Speaker 1: feel like the hierarchy isn't as rigid is it is
Speaker 1: with elk. There's more fluidity with the groups because the
Speaker 1: thing that I found with elk watch milk, is there
Speaker 1: some elk that you an alert. Like let's say you're
Speaker 1: putting a sneak in on a group and there's some
Speaker 1: elk that they pick up something's not right, but no
Speaker 1: one cares that they think something's not right. You're spot
Speaker 1: and they got their head up. They're like, bro, I
Speaker 1: saw something, man, I know, I saw something. And the
Speaker 1: other alsteral feeding there's some elk they lift their head
Speaker 1: up and everyone's head comes up exactly and they're like,
Speaker 1: something's amiss because old Bessie. Old Bessie ain't happy. When
Speaker 1: she ain't happy, nobody's happy. Right now, you're you're exactly
Speaker 1: spot on them. We've got hundreds, if not thousands, of
Speaker 1: you know, a caffre yearling can pick their head up, no,
Speaker 1: something's not right. She can run to the front of
Speaker 1: the herd and nothing cares. But if you get one
Speaker 1: of those more adult cows. She'll run up, bump that
Speaker 1: that lead cow and it's all over. Or if the
Speaker 1: lead cause easy, you know, you don't have a chop.
Speaker 1: But sometimes these younger cows may not have as much influence.
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but yeah, caple, pick
Speaker 1: you up. She'll run circles in the herd, try to
Speaker 1: get him all and nobody, you know, none of the
Speaker 1: other cows care. Nothing, nothing happens. I think, yeah, I've
Speaker 1: met this before on the show. But these researchers are
Speaker 1: doing a thing with monkeys. One time where they destroyed
Speaker 1: a monkey's credibility in his troop by recording his warning
Speaker 1: cry and playing it all the time, and after a
Speaker 1: while when he would do his legit mourning cry, no
Speaker 1: one would pay attention because they gave him the reputation
Speaker 1: of the boy who cries wolf. And these things had
Speaker 1: a pretty elaborate language where they would have a warning
Speaker 1: cry for something on the ground and a warning cry
Speaker 1: for something in the air because there was like some guy,
Speaker 1: can'member what it was, or some one of their primary predators.
Speaker 1: Their leopards were a primary predator, and there's some just
Speaker 1: big avian predator and they would have that noise, and
Speaker 1: they could make it that people lost their faith where
Speaker 1: his troop lost their faith in him. I don't think
Speaker 1: that probably happens without but they haven't earned it yet,
Speaker 1: or they're like jumpy. Maybe they have a reputation for
Speaker 1: being jumping. Yeah. That well, Bessie, she's always she's just
Speaker 1: a crazy one. She she didn't see anything again, because
Speaker 1: there's nothing that feels better when you're putting the move
Speaker 1: on something. Well, what feels better is not spooking one.
Speaker 1: But if you're putting the move on something and he
Speaker 1: pegs you and you freeze, and also it goes back
Speaker 1: to feeding and you're like, oh man, yeah, back in
Speaker 1: the game. But they're still in their head. They're still
Speaker 1: like acutely aware, right, there's still nervous. But you like
Speaker 1: bought a minute. You bought a kind of a second chance.
Speaker 1: You know. That lead cow, though there's there's no I
Speaker 1: wish there was a way that you could like tie
Speaker 1: a big pink ribbon around the lead cow and then
Speaker 1: she could never be killed because I around home, there's
Speaker 1: been some bad Like the whole herd just loses their
Speaker 1: sense of who they are, where they're safe and like
Speaker 1: you see like some of our cow seasons where that
Speaker 1: lead cow get shot, that entire herd is in trouble
Speaker 1: um from groups of hunters because they just they forget
Speaker 1: how to be safe whatever the second. And so that's
Speaker 1: like my conservation, Like I wish there was a way
Speaker 1: we could tie like a pink ribbon around all the
Speaker 1: herd cows or the you know, the lead cow's neck
Speaker 1: and she can't never be shot because she she controls
Speaker 1: so much of their safety. Um. That's there's cows out
Speaker 1: there that have eight twenty years worth of experience. They've
Speaker 1: been through the season that many times, have been through
Speaker 1: winter that many times. You wouldn't think though, because there's
Speaker 1: gotta be you know, if she's there, then with her
Speaker 1: offspring and the rest of her there's got to be
Speaker 1: the next class. Right that's sixteen years old. You would think, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean in that age bracket. But it's it's funny.
Speaker 1: We've we've seen it enough around home. We I live
Speaker 1: in a very small community with a very you know,
Speaker 1: small tree farm in my backyard the warehouse or south
Speaker 1: there in p l And you know, like in those
Speaker 1: muzzle orders or some of the late archery seasons when
Speaker 1: that heard that lead cow gets shot, it's it's a mess,
Speaker 1: like and then you just hear like six or seven
Speaker 1: or eight cows that get taken out of that herd
Speaker 1: just because it's even though there maybe you know, maybe
Speaker 1: a cow or the same age, older, younger, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know how they got pecking orders determined, but
Speaker 1: it's just like, dang, that new one wasn't very good,
Speaker 1: you know, the second or third one wasn't very good
Speaker 1: at keeping them safe. Yeah, or hadn't hadn't done it yet,
Speaker 1: and the other ones haven't paid attention. Do you when
Speaker 1: you're hunting, are you kind of watching? Do you find
Speaker 1: yourself watching to try to see who the lead cow is?
Speaker 1: When you're trying to work a group of elx? Got
Speaker 1: a bull in it? A little bit like more from Afar.
Speaker 1: When we're in the timber and stuff getting in close,
Speaker 1: we eat, and it's tough. It's tough to figure out
Speaker 1: which one is because they're kind of spread out mingling.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, you know, yeah, until they're in action or moving.
Speaker 1: But if we if we spot one across the canyon,
Speaker 1: we're definitely paying attention. Like how much control does she
Speaker 1: have is she just kinda is she's setting the pace?
Speaker 1: How long till they get into the patch of timber
Speaker 1: where they're gonna bed, so we'll pay attention to her?
Speaker 1: Or is she more just slowly grazing you know a
Speaker 1: little bit but not a lot to what that lead
Speaker 1: cow is doing. Once you're up, and let's let's just
Speaker 1: walk through and say, like, you're up, you're doing your
Speaker 1: locating and lo and behold not terribly far off, but
Speaker 1: still far off. You get a reply, what's the next
Speaker 1: piece of information? Aation you want to know? Or like
Speaker 1: what's the next thing you do? Um? You know, real quick,
Speaker 1: I'll look at maybe on X maps maybe if I
Speaker 1: can't see exactly where that came from, Like is there
Speaker 1: a bench down there? What's what's going on? Train wise?
Speaker 1: What time of day is it? It is my my
Speaker 1: thermal switched for good? And I if I if it
Speaker 1: takes me an hour to get down there, and that's
Speaker 1: when the sun is gonna hit the canyon? Am I
Speaker 1: gonna get caught in this wind? You know this wind swirl?
Speaker 1: And then where are they going? Is it? If it's
Speaker 1: right at daybreak, they're probably gonna feed, you know, typically
Speaker 1: for a little bit and then head to bed. So
Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out, all, right, there there may
Speaker 1: be heading this direction. I've got this much time to
Speaker 1: get there. But first of all, I want to make
Speaker 1: sure I don't get the wind screwed up. Um? What
Speaker 1: am I gonna have to do to get the wind? Right?
Speaker 1: You have to scoop under them? Do I need to
Speaker 1: run down this ridge and the yards go down a
Speaker 1: finger and then get under them? Um? Should I just
Speaker 1: sit down and wait for an hour for the wind
Speaker 1: to fully switch and then go straight down on them?
Speaker 1: You know? It's some of this stuff all kind of
Speaker 1: time of day. Um, But typically I'm bailing off on
Speaker 1: every elk I hear. I don't say, Oh, that one
Speaker 1: sounds like it's not very big. I'm gonna just find
Speaker 1: a bigger one. I'm gonnat least go check with my eyes,
Speaker 1: um see what's down there. So we're pretty much diving
Speaker 1: after every bugle. Um. If that's all I can hear.
Speaker 1: If I can't see, let me give you. Let me
Speaker 1: give you a a couple of like competing scenarios. Let's do
Speaker 1: the first. The first scenario will be like the one
Speaker 1: that I like, the one that I would like least
Speaker 1: it's ten in the morning's hot. You rip a bugle
Speaker 1: and then from the nastiest patch of black match stick timber.
Speaker 1: Seems like it's right in the middle of the nastiest
Speaker 1: patch of black timber. Are you like, man, I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna wait or do you think I'm gonna go in
Speaker 1: there and try to work that bowl? How can I
Speaker 1: get close to the black timber without making a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of noise? All right, I'm gonna go down to
Speaker 1: the north. It's it's like a north face and slope
Speaker 1: and there's a patch of black timber and narratives I
Speaker 1: don't know, you know, hundreds of yards tall, hundreds of
Speaker 1: yards wide. I'm gonna go down and sit on the edge.
Speaker 1: I love killing elk between ten or two and that
Speaker 1: bowl bigles out of his bed somewhere around noon one
Speaker 1: or two. It's they're very Let me, let me preface
Speaker 1: us with if you're trying to kill that big herd bowl,
Speaker 1: so he's trying to kill you, don't give it this
Speaker 1: whole conversation. You don't really just just any bowl. I
Speaker 1: would still go down there and sit on the edge
Speaker 1: of that herd wait for him to get up. He
Speaker 1: will typically sometime in the middle of that betting session,
Speaker 1: get up and check on all of his cows. So
Speaker 1: if I can get up, you know, get as close
Speaker 1: as possible to them without spooking him. If it's a
Speaker 1: jack strawed blowdown mess, I might just say I need
Speaker 1: him to come back out of there. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: make it in, but if I can get somewhat close
Speaker 1: I mean in the timber. Yeah, if I can get
Speaker 1: close to that edge or where it's, you know, without
Speaker 1: being a complete mess and making all kinds of noise
Speaker 1: and let him know him there, I'll go down there
Speaker 1: sneak in. If I can keep the wind rights, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, ideally as close as possible. If I get
Speaker 1: the hundred yards, great, But if I can get two
Speaker 1: hundred fifty and be comfortable there, I'm just gonna go
Speaker 1: sit down and wait. So let's say, okay, so you
Speaker 1: creep down and you gotta uphill wind. There's nice elk
Speaker 1: trails cutting all through the timber. You start creeping down
Speaker 1: in there and precing you just smell him. And it's
Speaker 1: not the smell of yesterday's elk. It's not elk piss.
Speaker 1: It's you smell elk, like living breathing there now elk,
Speaker 1: And you're like, it's got to be that he's a
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty yards away. What are you thinking? Then?
Speaker 1: Can I Can I go any further? How much further?
Speaker 1: It just depends so well, there's a lot of times
Speaker 1: where we've spotted the cows before they spotted us. You're
Speaker 1: we used to live by an old saying, we have
Speaker 1: so much anymore. But if you're not bumping ilk, you're
Speaker 1: not honeyolk. But you don't necessarily want to bump every
Speaker 1: elk you're trying. So it's it's not a good saying
Speaker 1: by any means, but we want to ideally, I want
Speaker 1: to be within a hundred yards that way, as soon
Speaker 1: as he ripped a bugle out of his bed, I
Speaker 1: can I can walk on top of him. He haven't
Speaker 1: made any noise in a perfect world. You you ripped
Speaker 1: a bugle, he located, You're like, I got you pegged.
Speaker 1: I don't want to make it another sound. And while
Speaker 1: you're a hundred yards away from the first cow, he's
Speaker 1: in there somewhere. You don't know where he is. We
Speaker 1: can see a cow's ears sticking up. You still haven't
Speaker 1: made a noise. I in my opinion, if you try
Speaker 1: to make elk calls in between them, especially if you're bugling,
Speaker 1: you can maybe make a cow cal and get away
Speaker 1: with it. But if you're trying to bugle to him,
Speaker 1: your basicuit in now and saying, hey, I'm a big
Speaker 1: bull that's gonna come down. He'll round up his cows
Speaker 1: and it's that cat and mouse game from then on.
Speaker 1: And I've did it so many times where I don't
Speaker 1: think he wants the risk of a bull coming down
Speaker 1: in on him. So does he has what he wants? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean he's trying to you know, procreate and live
Speaker 1: and that's his to uh, you know in September, that's
Speaker 1: all that bull wants to do. So I don't want to,
Speaker 1: you know, alert him of me coming down, he answered
Speaker 1: my my locator. I was far enough away it didn't
Speaker 1: mean anything to him. He doesn't know I'm coming in. Um.
Speaker 1: And then I'm just gonna sit and weight from the
Speaker 1: bugle out of his bed. He's gonna come check his cows.
Speaker 1: He does not like satellite bowls to bed anywhere close
Speaker 1: to him. So if I were you a bugle at
Speaker 1: that hundred or hundred and twenty five yard mark. Um,
Speaker 1: he's gonna come. He usually comes and checks you out.
Speaker 1: He does not want you that close to his bedded
Speaker 1: cows because he can't necessarily see them all at the
Speaker 1: same time. So he's kind of just trusting that there's
Speaker 1: you know, he's getting up checking them. Yeah, because they
Speaker 1: kind of filter into those bedding areas and everybody takes yeah,
Speaker 1: like you know, if they're in a line or in
Speaker 1: a little ball going into a bedding area, they don't
Speaker 1: like march and single file, then all line up in there,
Speaker 1: ye there, you know, Then they mingle around, and time
Speaker 1: goes by, and they lay down and get up and
Speaker 1: lay down and move around, and by you know, pretty
Speaker 1: soon they're just occupying a wide area. You can wind
Speaker 1: up down, you can sneak down and realize you want
Speaker 1: up in the center of them. Yeah, you can. They
Speaker 1: can bed eight d yard you know, in a eight
Speaker 1: hundred yards circle and just be scattered everywhere. And and
Speaker 1: you'll notice how when you're just walking through the timber
Speaker 1: and you're like, yeah, they betted here last night or
Speaker 1: two nights ago. And by time you're done walking up
Speaker 1: the hill, you're like they're still bedding. You know, this
Speaker 1: is that probably the same group. They just they were
Speaker 1: just spread all out because they were, you know, pissing
Speaker 1: the beds. Um like, yeah they were here last night,
Speaker 1: but yet they were from down there to up here
Speaker 1: there hundred fifty yards scattered up here. So you so
Speaker 1: you've gotten where you snuck down And like I was saying,
Speaker 1: like you can see some cow years or whatever your
Speaker 1: hundred yards away. I can't get me closer because if
Speaker 1: you getting closer, you're gonna you know, you're gonna bump one.
Speaker 1: You're then gonna say you're saying, then you're gonna do
Speaker 1: another bugle. Only after he does, I'm gonna let him
Speaker 1: him lead the game. If you gotta wait, Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's very tough. I'm not a very patient hunter, especially
Speaker 1: if I got to sit there for two or three
Speaker 1: hours and i'm you know, if I've seen the ears,
Speaker 1: I know I'm on the oak, which you could probably
Speaker 1: get away with the bagle at that point, just because
Speaker 1: he's gonna most likely want to come check you out.
Speaker 1: But in that scenario, I like to let him lead
Speaker 1: the game off and then I want to walk right
Speaker 1: on top of him. You know or bagle is close
Speaker 1: to right on top of his bigle is possible. I've
Speaker 1: only killed one bowl with the bow, and the one
Speaker 1: bowl I killed with the bow, I did just that.
Speaker 1: Found a bett at Kyle. She's forty yards away, and
Speaker 1: I sat there and waited, and eventually the bowl just
Speaker 1: doing his deal, came over and I shot him standing
Speaker 1: above that cow. Yeah, like basically came up to stand
Speaker 1: above her, just as he's doing his little thing, you know. Comes.
Speaker 1: I have a I have a video well at some
Speaker 1: screenshots off of you last year when we were in
Speaker 1: Montana on the on the Land of the Free series
Speaker 1: with Born and Rais and those guys, um I spotted
Speaker 1: it was a nasty day. We were walking through some
Speaker 1: black timber, just get to the edge of it and
Speaker 1: I'm like, there's a cow bedded. We sat there and
Speaker 1: frozen death for like fifteen minutes. But then sure enough,
Speaker 1: the middle of the day that bowl you start to
Speaker 1: see him working his way through, comes over to the
Speaker 1: closest cow, bumps her out of her bed, noses her out,
Speaker 1: and then checks on her. And then that's when I
Speaker 1: got my shot. Um. Yeah, but I think now I
Speaker 1: got lucky. I think at fifteen minutes. I could have
Speaker 1: been standing there for two hours. You know, I just
Speaker 1: happened to maybe get lucky. That was his time to
Speaker 1: make his rounds and bump her out and check on her.
Speaker 1: So let's say you do, how long would you sit
Speaker 1: in this scenario we're talking about the black timber bedded cow, right,
Speaker 1: how long did you sit before You're like, Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna try something. I'm gonna try a cow call. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna try something. It depends I would like to say
Speaker 1: sitting here that I would I would be comfortable enough
Speaker 1: until the cows get up and started feeding about. So,
Speaker 1: you know, I just I can't believe that you, as
Speaker 1: a dude who like lives and breathe game calls, you're
Speaker 1: not just gonna run in there and start just at me.
Speaker 1: So I have even though I love game calls, I
Speaker 1: like killing Elk Moore, and so I kind of know,
Speaker 1: I kind of know like when to call it, you know,
Speaker 1: and just kind of let things play out. Um, that's
Speaker 1: the same thing. You know. One of my best tactics
Speaker 1: is instead of just calling them in, is more of
Speaker 1: the ambush and call him in a little bit, you know.
Speaker 1: So you can call it elkin from a mile or
Speaker 1: I can go get in front of the elk going
Speaker 1: across the mountain, wait for him, maybe call once or
Speaker 1: twice and kill him. I'll take the ambush and call
Speaker 1: all day long if that's what I need to do
Speaker 1: to be effective, instead of saying, oh, yeah, I called
Speaker 1: this bull from a mile away, like I'm not. I
Speaker 1: don't need any awards for I just want to kill
Speaker 1: that thing. Okay, so you're so. So you sit there
Speaker 1: and two hours goes by and eventually he bugles, Then
Speaker 1: what do you do. I'm gonna bugle right back out
Speaker 1: of yeah, And I'm trying to paint that picture that
Speaker 1: you know, I'm really close to your cows. You're over
Speaker 1: there somewhere I can't maybe see you. I'm closer to
Speaker 1: your cow maybe than you are. You better come and
Speaker 1: take care of me or try to run me off,
Speaker 1: like you know, we talked a little bit earlier about
Speaker 1: that satellite bowl and those bulls spending so much time
Speaker 1: running them off. At this point, he doesn't have the
Speaker 1: chance to round his cows up and run away from me.
Speaker 1: He's got to come try to run me off at
Speaker 1: this point, like it's you know it's came to head
Speaker 1: at that point, and so you're trying to paint that picture.
Speaker 1: I'm close to your cow, she's right here. I'm right here.
Speaker 1: Come running me off. Okay he bugles you bugle, he
Speaker 1: doesn't move. Maybe bugle again. This is where it gets tough.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, sitting here doing a podcast like
Speaker 1: well or the cows making noise? Canna hear sticks breaking?
Speaker 1: What's Yeah, there's a there's a bunch of this other
Speaker 1: stuff that comes in, and you're like, all right, if
Speaker 1: i'd probably biggle again, maybe do some excited cow calling,
Speaker 1: just kind of see how he responds to that. Did
Speaker 1: that Perker's interest? Um? And and just kind of see
Speaker 1: see what you need? You need to factor in a
Speaker 1: ton of things that I can't provide. Yeah, that's that's
Speaker 1: where it gets tough. You're even doing these seminars and
Speaker 1: do and all this stuff, like there are so many
Speaker 1: there are so many things that come in. You know,
Speaker 1: you teach us prescriptive thing, but you know, if there
Speaker 1: was something that takes off up the hill after I
Speaker 1: be a gold, then I'm like, you know, but that
Speaker 1: cow doesn't what's going on here? Um? There's so many variables.
Speaker 1: But I think the thing to note here though, is
Speaker 1: that there's like the guys and I feel like it's
Speaker 1: kind of become this is this and go off on
Speaker 1: a kind of a tangent, but like you're the guy
Speaker 1: that like it's gonna bugle first almost every single time, right,
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of dudes, and I feel like
Speaker 1: that's kind of changed in the last ten years. So
Speaker 1: I feel like when I was guiding, like those guys
Speaker 1: that didn't even carry bugle tubes and there it was
Speaker 1: just kind of like, no, you have to call as
Speaker 1: quietly and as little as possible, don't even bring the
Speaker 1: bugle tube. And I almost had to like break out
Speaker 1: of like and just be like, you know what, I
Speaker 1: want to just try. I know you guys are saying
Speaker 1: this thing, but I just want to least go out
Speaker 1: there and try and like I got good results, right,
Speaker 1: but like speak to a little bit about like why
Speaker 1: start with you know, vehicle instead of why start with calcouling.
Speaker 1: So as far as like yeah or any let me
Speaker 1: let me hit him. Let's I want to bring it
Speaker 1: out of him through the scenario. Okay, so let me
Speaker 1: try one more scenari because I think that this is
Speaker 1: gonna be a scenario where he's gonna where he's gonna
Speaker 1: ca call. If not what us ask when do I calcohol?
Speaker 1: But let me just hit you. In the our scenario,
Speaker 1: it's pre morning darkness. You're on a ridge. You know
Speaker 1: below us there's like a nice lush meadow that they've
Speaker 1: been hitting, not even light out. You're like, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna see what's going on down there. You rip
Speaker 1: a bugle and lo and behold. Sure enough you get
Speaker 1: a reply, and because of your familiarity with the area,
Speaker 1: you're like, they're down in that metal. I was watching
Speaker 1: him last night. Now what do you do? So? Are
Speaker 1: you a cow calling it all today? I don't know
Speaker 1: right now. The winds, the winds probably blowing down to him,
Speaker 1: so many of you try to get out of my
Speaker 1: spot or get down the creek on the ridge line.
Speaker 1: That's to be my first thing, all right. Make sure
Speaker 1: like you know, the winds washing washing down valley, Yeah,
Speaker 1: washing down valley, down slopes. I'm gonna try to get
Speaker 1: below him, and whether that means I gotta run down
Speaker 1: this ridge yards and then I'll be safe and angle
Speaker 1: down in the creek and then come up on him.
Speaker 1: Whatever I need to do. Um pre morning darkness, I
Speaker 1: you know, almost light out. Yeah, so you're getting close enough.
Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna try to get to the edge of
Speaker 1: that meadow, and I'm gonna be very careful. A lot
Speaker 1: of guys set up And I did this multiple times,
Speaker 1: and I kicked myself every time I do it, and
Speaker 1: I will still do it to this day. I will
Speaker 1: go set up on the tree that is on the
Speaker 1: edge of the daing meadow, you know, if if they're
Speaker 1: not in the meadow, and try to call him in
Speaker 1: there because I can, oh, I can see everything. Well,
Speaker 1: there's that elk will or that bowl. When I'm trying
Speaker 1: to call it in, We'll try to get to the
Speaker 1: edge and and we've talked about how nature works without
Speaker 1: us being involved. He'll expect that cow to run across
Speaker 1: the meadow because he should be able to see him,
Speaker 1: he should be able to see her. And you know,
Speaker 1: we're trying to trick this whole, you know, glitch the
Speaker 1: game a little bit. Uh. So I will get try
Speaker 1: to get wind right on that meadow, and then I
Speaker 1: will try to walk down the side of the meadow
Speaker 1: towards the direction he's at on that edge of the
Speaker 1: meadow and try to be in the timber a little
Speaker 1: bit and get off the edge of that meadow and try,
Speaker 1: you know, however these angles work out, try not to
Speaker 1: call him through that meadow, if that makes any sense, Like,
Speaker 1: I want to keep him out of open space, because
Speaker 1: that gives him a train break or a vegetation break
Speaker 1: where he thinks you should be able to see me. Um.
Speaker 1: On that scenario, I may go in and open up
Speaker 1: with a few cal calls and just see how he
Speaker 1: responds um versus blow him out. If I can get
Speaker 1: in there, I still want to be close. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: maybe open up with a you know, a needy, whiny
Speaker 1: cow call. Here. So, and this is one thing we
Speaker 1: talked about music and just yeah your normal mew. A
Speaker 1: lot of times when I cut and people can say
Speaker 1: whether there's a such thing as an estra's buzz, I
Speaker 1: use these real whiney, drawn out up and down caw
Speaker 1: calls versus, Yeah, your estras wine is what I call,
Speaker 1: you know, his names for everything, but it's more of
Speaker 1: an up and down wavy caw call. It's not your
Speaker 1: perfect cow call, but it's given us a good results. Oh,
Speaker 1: there's a little waiver in there, man. And so we've
Speaker 1: we've had seen cows do that um multiple times just
Speaker 1: watching him, and that bowl will typically always go check
Speaker 1: on her. It's just that whiny and we've called it
Speaker 1: here that little like yeah, yeah, there's a little bit
Speaker 1: of a flutter, and we've did that in burns. Were like,
Speaker 1: it's kind of cool calling in the burn because you
Speaker 1: can see that elk for so long coming in. But
Speaker 1: it was almost the more we did that, the faster
Speaker 1: he would run, the slower we would go, the more
Speaker 1: he would slow down. And we're like, all right, let's
Speaker 1: just stay on it again, and I'll do it on
Speaker 1: this is on the external. I I used this a
Speaker 1: lot for this specific call. It's just that whiny and
Speaker 1: then it really really over emphasized that nasally sound at
Speaker 1: the end, and that call might that could be so seductive,
Speaker 1: so titling that he would uh be like, man, I know,
Speaker 1: I got three four cows out here in my medal
Speaker 1: with me. If I'm gonna take a mozy over in
Speaker 1: the woods and see what exactly is up with this newcomer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because he's got a pretty good idea where his cows
Speaker 1: are at in there. But look, in this scenario, do
Speaker 1: we know there's cows there? No? Right, I I always
Speaker 1: go into everyone assuming that there's chatting. I just assume
Speaker 1: um that there's cows. So, but let's say that bowl,
Speaker 1: he's checked on his cows all that morning, he's been
Speaker 1: with them all night. He knows about where they're at,
Speaker 1: whether they've already come into the first extracycle, whether they're close.
Speaker 1: He's checking on them all if that for sure thing,
Speaker 1: And she sounds needy and needs some attention, he's maybe
Speaker 1: willing to go grab her. And I think that's when
Speaker 1: people say the cow call bulls, And that's kind of
Speaker 1: what they're they're playing on, is that you sound needy
Speaker 1: enough or you're you know, maybe something he should come
Speaker 1: check out because he knows his other you know, six
Speaker 1: ladies aren't ready for any fund. So he's to come
Speaker 1: and grab grab her. And so that's kind of why
Speaker 1: we we play that direction. Let me hear. This is
Speaker 1: just something that came to my mind, but it's not
Speaker 1: really in order of what we're talking about. Have you
Speaker 1: found a good rule of thumb or anything helpful to
Speaker 1: explain to people how to tell how far away a
Speaker 1: bugle is. I remember we started hunting bugling out. We
Speaker 1: would oftentimes I think they were much farther away than
Speaker 1: they were, and in going even to get into the zone,
Speaker 1: wind up stumbling right through the elk thinking that they
Speaker 1: had to have been farther away. This is particularly down
Speaker 1: like big valley bottoms, you know, not where you're like
Speaker 1: on one slope looking at the other slope, but where
Speaker 1: there's an expanse of there's an expanse of like flat country,
Speaker 1: timbered flat country or whatever, and you hear a thing.
Speaker 1: Our early thing was that it's much farther away than
Speaker 1: it actually is. Is that something that is only learned
Speaker 1: through experience or do you have a way to explain
Speaker 1: to people how to tell where a bugle's coming from.
Speaker 1: I don't even know if experience helps yet. I I
Speaker 1: just until sixteen in New Mexico, so I'll kind of start.
Speaker 1: I grew up hunting coastal jungle of southwest Washing and
Speaker 1: that's all I knew. Coastal rainforest. Yeah, so you have
Speaker 1: you are choked full dents um and and and in
Speaker 1: that scenario, that's kind of where I learned how far
Speaker 1: elk were. Um. They were typically closer than than you
Speaker 1: thought in that scenario. Um, so we kind of got
Speaker 1: good at judging that until that elk turns one eighty.
Speaker 1: If he bagles at you, and if he turns degrees
Speaker 1: and beagles back in, his cows are up the hill
Speaker 1: the other way. I don't care how good you are.
Speaker 1: You you he sounds like he's double the distance or
Speaker 1: half the distance. Yeah, you think there's two bulls sometimes yeah,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, so that is always going after you
Speaker 1: and back to the turkey thing. A lot of elk
Speaker 1: bowls that we call in, especially when you're trying to
Speaker 1: pull them from their cows, they do that strut zone.
Speaker 1: They come towards you a hundred yard to the bugle
Speaker 1: and they will go back and then you may do
Speaker 1: may get him to pull back again, but they will
Speaker 1: never get past that point. And so you've got this
Speaker 1: basically elk on a track that's running a hundred yards,
Speaker 1: and so you're trying to judge, you know, whether he's
Speaker 1: facing you, whether there's a hundred yards away. And then
Speaker 1: in two thousand and sixteen, my eyes really got opened up.
Speaker 1: I went down to New Mexico and uh Roali juniper
Speaker 1: country and being a seasoned elk hunter. I thought, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: this elks right around the corner. And we chased bugles
Speaker 1: for miles. You could hear a bugle for two miles
Speaker 1: away playing is day and I got we got our
Speaker 1: butts kicked. I mean I would say butts kicked from
Speaker 1: a standpoint that we went a lot further on every
Speaker 1: bugle we heard versus like dang, this thing should be
Speaker 1: a half mile away. Noticed things two miles away. Just
Speaker 1: the vegetation, yeah, just the vegetation quality the air, to
Speaker 1: the moisture in the air, yeah, if you know. Of course,
Speaker 1: elevation always helps with that. Things just sitting up on
Speaker 1: a point high enough where he can project down that valley. Um.
Speaker 1: We there were a couple of times and we looked
Speaker 1: at on GPS like we could be at this water
Speaker 1: tank and we got we we heard this a bigle
Speaker 1: went up there, called him in and he was a
Speaker 1: mile and a half away on the GPS. You know,
Speaker 1: it's just crazy. Janice is much better than me at
Speaker 1: telling where a gobble or a bugle's coming from. I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's like a quality of ear thing right,
Speaker 1: Like I've been exposed a lot of like the noise,
Speaker 1: but he just is more like I would trust his
Speaker 1: opinion about was where it was better than my opinion
Speaker 1: about where it was. We we've been walking down a
Speaker 1: trail and get a bagle, you know, with maybe two
Speaker 1: or three guys and all three of us point and
Speaker 1: twenty degrees in different directions, like, oh boy, we're gonna
Speaker 1: need another one. At least we need at least two people,
Speaker 1: you know, convinced that it's a certain direction. They're just
Speaker 1: it's crazy sometimes depending on what you were looking at
Speaker 1: where your head was when the big golden we're all
Speaker 1: like that way and just slight a slight roll if
Speaker 1: that elk is just over that role, you know, like
Speaker 1: even like here we're sitting next to this gully, that
Speaker 1: bow will probably sound louder if he's across the gully
Speaker 1: on the other side than if he's down the bottom
Speaker 1: just fifty yards below us. Because of that how that
Speaker 1: sounds going to travel to your ears. You know, here's
Speaker 1: another scenario for you. What's different. You give me your
Speaker 1: best scenario. Give me this scenario where you're like, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna kill this bull, just a satellite bull feeding on
Speaker 1: an open hillside. First thing in the morning, like I
Speaker 1: have a loan bowl feeding by himself. First, Well you
Speaker 1: you said we weren't just killing herd bulls anymore so
Speaker 1: because we only have so much time, right, so I
Speaker 1: just want to focus it on. Yeah, it's just elk
Speaker 1: if I if I've got a semi mature maybe three
Speaker 1: and a half to six and a half year old
Speaker 1: May three and a half to five and a half
Speaker 1: year old bull just feeding first thing in the morning
Speaker 1: by himself when coming downhill and I'm below him, I'll
Speaker 1: take I'll take that, Okay, tell me how you're gonna
Speaker 1: work that Bull'm just literally paint the picture for him
Speaker 1: as long as his eyes can't pick me out if
Speaker 1: I can move using you know, train or vegetation to
Speaker 1: get within even him. I don't even get that close
Speaker 1: now because you're down winds coming down because the day
Speaker 1: has and heat it up herest thing in the morning.
Speaker 1: I know from maybe hunting the area a day or
Speaker 1: two before, the sun's not gonna hit this drainage until
Speaker 1: you know, the two hours, I've got plenty of time. Um,
Speaker 1: I just want to get to three even maybe four
Speaker 1: yards away from this bowl and just calcolum and I
Speaker 1: won't even touch my bugles. So then you're not worried
Speaker 1: about getting hundred yards away. No I I can. I
Speaker 1: know from past experience that we can pull that thing
Speaker 1: with a lot of heavy, sexy cal calls from a
Speaker 1: lot further away. Okay, so give me the So there
Speaker 1: you are, you're down in the creek bed, but it's
Speaker 1: an open slope and you're looking up and you can
Speaker 1: just see him working around feeding and I three yards
Speaker 1: up the hill, and I want to be able to
Speaker 1: see him. If I can see him and see how
Speaker 1: he reacts to the calls, the better. How did happen
Speaker 1: with First, you start heavy duty, or you just take
Speaker 1: his temperature first. I'll probably just some white calcols. Just
Speaker 1: see how he responds here once he uh, once he
Speaker 1: gets going, then I'll probably pick it up. So this
Speaker 1: is the first noise out of your mouth, and just
Speaker 1: maybe those two and then you watch him. Just watch him.
Speaker 1: He's mostly gonna pick his head up, and then his
Speaker 1: next steps either gonna be go back to feeding or
Speaker 1: he's gonna turn and come down towards me. Once he turns,
Speaker 1: it comes down to me. And I don't want to
Speaker 1: be cocky, but at that point, I would say we
Speaker 1: have a nine percent chance he's kind he's gonna come. Okay,
Speaker 1: when do you feel that it's once he takes that
Speaker 1: first step in your direction. So if he was feeding
Speaker 1: left or right and he goes from straight down the hill, um,
Speaker 1: I would be pretty confident that at least we're gonna
Speaker 1: get a shot at him. What's your cockiness level? Just
Speaker 1: seeing him? I'm pretty confidence. So confidence level, yeah, you
Speaker 1: just okay, it's just the fifty yards. Um, I'll just
Speaker 1: set that in fifty yards. I'm gonna say we've got
Speaker 1: a chance that he no, no no, no, no, what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: like when he's still three yards up the hill. But
Speaker 1: you know, like like you know for absolute you know
Speaker 1: it might it might not be possible in real life.
Speaker 1: Let's just say you knew for absolute certain that that
Speaker 1: is a lone bowl by himself and the winds right
Speaker 1: and your three yards blow it and it's when we
Speaker 1: and we know that it's the rut. Are you thinking, man,
Speaker 1: there's a you know, before I even touch this call,
Speaker 1: I'm saying, there's a blank percent chance that that bull
Speaker 1: is gonna step in my direction if I can see
Speaker 1: him from across the canyon. No, he's all by himself,
Speaker 1: um feeding. And I would say that number is pretty similar,
Speaker 1: even because a lot of times the satellite bowls will
Speaker 1: kind of heard up together and hang out. I would say,
Speaker 1: even if you have a group, it's still probably one
Speaker 1: of them or two of them are gonna break off.
Speaker 1: Really yeah, maybe the more mature out of those two,
Speaker 1: or if there's a couple that or maybe a little
Speaker 1: bit better than the spikes or the the you know,
Speaker 1: the two and a half year olds that typically those
Speaker 1: bigger ones in the group will break off and come
Speaker 1: towards you, sometimes together. So let's say you're on a
Speaker 1: glass and knob. They're just a ridge and on one side,
Speaker 1: down one side of the ridge, you've got and all
Speaker 1: these bulls are exact same size, and this scenarrow they're
Speaker 1: all exact same size. But one side of the ridge
Speaker 1: you've got twenty cows. There's seven bowls. Everybody's going bananas. Okay.
Speaker 1: On the other side of bridge is just the same bowl.
Speaker 1: But he's just hanging out feeding. You're like, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go work that bowl. Now you're really playing with the
Speaker 1: reason I cunt. So you've got all that action on
Speaker 1: the one side, and that's what I'm here for. So
Speaker 1: now I need to weigh it is killing the ball
Speaker 1: more important or am I here for that? So that's
Speaker 1: that's where it gets really tough. Now you've kind of
Speaker 1: split me down the middle. Because even though I love
Speaker 1: I love filling the freezer full, help me, it's, you know,
Speaker 1: that's what I came out here for. I also come
Speaker 1: out here for something a little different, like that action.
Speaker 1: Like you're like, I want to go in and throw
Speaker 1: in with that group. So even though I know there's
Speaker 1: probably better well that many balls running around with twenty cows,
Speaker 1: there's still gonna be a lot of action. You're probably
Speaker 1: gonna have a chance, but that that satellite bowl is
Speaker 1: gonna be pretty well pretty good odds, right, And then
Speaker 1: you have the fifty sets of eyes versus the one
Speaker 1: set of eyes. You know that always helps, but you're
Speaker 1: seduced by the action. It is. It's it's uh in
Speaker 1: the learning experience and everything. Yeah, so I'm probably bowing
Speaker 1: towards the bugles because it's gonna be funnyer I go
Speaker 1: down there and bugle a little bit more. And and
Speaker 1: then I'm also thinking the back of my head, like
Speaker 1: I screwed this up. I can go after that one
Speaker 1: later or eventually he's probably gonna come on over to
Speaker 1: the join the party. Anyway. Give me another. Okay, now
Speaker 1: hit me with this is make your own scenario. Um,
Speaker 1: hit me with a great scenario that involves cows. This
Speaker 1: involves because you're saying like, okay, it's a bowl to
Speaker 1: three bowls whatever. No cows around out feeding, So let's
Speaker 1: say it is that it's it's a big herd bowl.
Speaker 1: He's got five cows, seems to have some like spike
Speaker 1: in the mix, seems to have some raghorn bowl in
Speaker 1: the mix. We're kind of pastoring him. What what is
Speaker 1: the moment throughout the day or the moment when you're like,
Speaker 1: now is my like, if I'm gonna make this work,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make it work when X happens. I want
Speaker 1: to catch them if I can the most optimum time,
Speaker 1: if I can catch them when they're going through from
Speaker 1: feed back into their bedding cover. I want to be
Speaker 1: somewhere in that hundred yard range of the cover, so
Speaker 1: you just come out and maybe feeding in an open
Speaker 1: meadow and an old burn and an avalanche shoot whatever
Speaker 1: that area is their feed and they're going back to bed.
Speaker 1: I would love to catch them in that one hundred
Speaker 1: yards inside you're waiting in there. That's where that ambush slash. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know a little bit of calling comes in. Like
Speaker 1: all right, I've watched them this morning. It was right
Speaker 1: at daybreak. I had an hour and a half to
Speaker 1: get up. I know they're gonna feed in about on contour.
Speaker 1: They're gonna go to that bench. You know, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: drawing all this up in my mind where I think
Speaker 1: they're gonna go. If I don't have any past experience,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go sit right there, hundred yards inside that
Speaker 1: timber and wait for him. Man, just do some real
Speaker 1: minor calling when you hear him, see them, see them,
Speaker 1: hear them. You know, I'm pretty impatient. So I might
Speaker 1: start to move around a little bit, you know, trying
Speaker 1: to figure hopefully ideally that bowls maybe making some sound
Speaker 1: on his own the more and on the morning. If not,
Speaker 1: you know, I might let a calcol here there if
Speaker 1: I kind of think I lost them or they should
Speaker 1: be here by now. I got you. I feel like
Speaker 1: the cows. A lot of times you get that sort
Speaker 1: of like tea party almost we used to always call
Speaker 1: it when they're leaving that big meadow, not like the
Speaker 1: not like the tea party, you know, like a bunch
Speaker 1: of like uh gals and a tea party just yeah,
Speaker 1: throwing tea into Boston Harbor or electing right of center
Speaker 1: anti establishment politicians or neither of those people drinking tea
Speaker 1: at a party. Then more clear, but almost like a cacophony,
Speaker 1: and really a lot of timetimes. It's not even that
Speaker 1: much beautling. But those cows they are just as they're
Speaker 1: moving up towards bed, you know, they're just you know,
Speaker 1: going off. And I love to have calves in the herd,
Speaker 1: Like if I can look across three calves, like then
Speaker 1: a little noisy sectors are gonna let me know they're coming.
Speaker 1: They're they're pretty vocal, especially the moms. Once they start
Speaker 1: moving like that, that the moms will talk to him
Speaker 1: because they're not always right next to each other, and
Speaker 1: so there's a lot of you know, cow to calf communication.
Speaker 1: Just as they move they start their journey back to bed,
Speaker 1: and no, they'll be pretty vocal. Let me hear another scenario.
Speaker 1: This isn'tna make your own. I'm giving you this one,
Speaker 1: all right, Okay, whatever the hell happened? You have your
Speaker 1: morning hunt, gets all hot. He's know, nothing's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: You're headed back toward camp. You're passing through a timber patch. Okay,
Speaker 1: unfamiliar terrain and all of a sudden surprises you. But
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, a hundred yards off down below
Speaker 1: you in the timber a bugle. So you have no context,
Speaker 1: you have no idea, you don't know anything. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: start that one with cal calls right where you stand. Yeah,
Speaker 1: see if he answers back to that, he might ignore me,
Speaker 1: or at least where's the all in cal calls? Is
Speaker 1: that gonna? Is that gonna work? Um? You know, a
Speaker 1: hundred yards away, I should be able to hear some
Speaker 1: sticks breaking if I can't see him, Um, if he's
Speaker 1: coming towards me. Um, if he doesn't respond, a lot
Speaker 1: of times they will come in silent too. So you
Speaker 1: gotta yeah, like, I can I hear sticks. But I'm
Speaker 1: gonna start that one with a cal call. Um I
Speaker 1: figured on those. I don't have a whole lot to
Speaker 1: you lose if he doesn't answer, So maybe five ten
Speaker 1: minutes if nothing developed, or I can't hear anything moving.
Speaker 1: I might just do a little weak, little bugle, just
Speaker 1: something knowing he can hear it because he's close. Um,
Speaker 1: just trying to get a response, so I can kind
Speaker 1: of engage whether he went the other way, whether he
Speaker 1: was in his bed, if he's still in his bed,
Speaker 1: did he move towards me. Let me hear the cow
Speaker 1: calls and let me hear the light bugle. Oh that's
Speaker 1: a real nice little light little ill no one that
Speaker 1: he can hear it. You know, when you're trying to locate,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to be you know, as loud as possible
Speaker 1: to kind of hit as many ears. But it's just
Speaker 1: just something really kind of in the middle, not getting
Speaker 1: really high. Just how's he gonna respond to that? But
Speaker 1: that's your softest caw call. Oh that's a that's a
Speaker 1: fairly heavy baggling read. We've got some really light so
Speaker 1: I'm really light. Make sure I get So that's the
Speaker 1: other thing I hunt with one call. So the really
Speaker 1: my I this is my personal call and I use
Speaker 1: it for almost everything I got called. This is the
Speaker 1: felt signature. So it's just and that's what you've been
Speaker 1: ripping the bugles on. Well, I've been using the maverick
Speaker 1: as well too, So those are the two that I
Speaker 1: I typically use. But mine's a little bit softer on
Speaker 1: the cow call. See, I don't think of that as
Speaker 1: a soft cow call man, So I guess who am
Speaker 1: I to say? But that strikes me as like a
Speaker 1: that's a cow call it. I mean, we can go
Speaker 1: really soft, but by time you're trying to call through
Speaker 1: the trees and the vegetation. If you've got somebody like
Speaker 1: you know, we've called a lot for our buddies and
Speaker 1: like dang them, things get drowned out pretty quick, right,
Speaker 1: cow is just making like you hear coles, just making
Speaker 1: the slightest little sounds. Yeah, it depends. That's not really
Speaker 1: in your hunting repertoire though, not the that I make.
Speaker 1: I will. I'll never argue they don't make them. Um,
Speaker 1: you know you don't need that. Yeah, I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't use it. Um, I will calf call, which is
Speaker 1: more of that high pitched chirp. If I'm trying to
Speaker 1: communicate with them, let me hear your what a calf? Okay,
Speaker 1: So they don't really have they don't really have the
Speaker 1: deep part to their called, just more of that high
Speaker 1: pitch shut off. Um, well, well I'll calf call a
Speaker 1: little bit, but yeah, most of my calcolling is loud um.
Speaker 1: And during September it seems they will communicate softly, but
Speaker 1: a lot of times, you know that the whole tea
Speaker 1: party or when they get going, they're fairly loud and
Speaker 1: knocks like yeah, and they got those loud, drawn out
Speaker 1: cal calls and they get going, and it's like, well,
Speaker 1: that's why I want to I want to be one
Speaker 1: of them, um. And so we try to. Like last year,
Speaker 1: the bowl that my wife called in uh my, there
Speaker 1: were probably forty cows and that heard with a couple
Speaker 1: of different bowls and then the one larger bowl and
Speaker 1: when they got up to feed, we kind of shodowed
Speaker 1: him the whole morning or the evening, excuse me, and
Speaker 1: they started to come up. They just started going and
Speaker 1: it sounded like a thousand you know, different elk going
Speaker 1: off because it's bouncing off the walls and they were
Speaker 1: all doing loud and it was it was pretty impressive
Speaker 1: just the amount of sound and noise and volume that
Speaker 1: group of forty cows could make. It It's like as
Speaker 1: many cal calls and as fast as they could go
Speaker 1: they were, they're letting them fly. That makes me want
Speaker 1: to hit you with another scenario. Okay, you're on all morning, right,
Speaker 1: you're all dejected, nothing happened. You get into a shady spot,
Speaker 1: you decided to have a it's eleven am. You decided
Speaker 1: to have a sandwich. Okay, you start to take a
Speaker 1: little nap. You're fighting the urge to go home. Everything sucks.
Speaker 1: And also here a bunch of sticks snapping, rocks rolling
Speaker 1: and for whatever the hell reason, off to your side
Speaker 1: aways here comes as a herd of elk. You can't
Speaker 1: tell are they spooked? Are they what? What's going on?
Speaker 1: But they're just kind brom rumbling down the hillside. Maybe
Speaker 1: they got bumped, maybe whatever. I don't know, maybe the
Speaker 1: bulls harassing them. They're gonna pass out of range. Did
Speaker 1: you just watch them go and be like hollows interesting?
Speaker 1: Or do you be like I'm gonna make some kind
Speaker 1: of crazy play. I m might heard a calcoll flow
Speaker 1: them down, but I'm not gonna necessarily chase that heard
Speaker 1: as they run away. You know, if they if they
Speaker 1: were just passing through fairly quickly, Um, we'll just kind
Speaker 1: of let them go, but just log log in your
Speaker 1: head where they went. Yeah, yeah, you know I was
Speaker 1: I able to see what was there. Could you know?
Speaker 1: I might try to get up, grab my bow and
Speaker 1: release and and cut them off, maybe to have a shot.
Speaker 1: If there is a bull there I want to kill.
Speaker 1: But you know, if they're moving like that, it's gonna
Speaker 1: be tough, you know, tough to call them in because
Speaker 1: they're they're going somewhere, they've they've been scared by something
Speaker 1: or you know, there was a predator or a human
Speaker 1: or it's gonna be tough to call them in. Okay,
Speaker 1: let me hit you with one more then you can
Speaker 1: hit you the snare if you want. It's evening time.
Speaker 1: It's your last day of the hunt, okay, And there's
Speaker 1: just a gigantic open sage flat, very open and just
Speaker 1: out in the middle of this thousand yards to cross
Speaker 1: and out in the middle of this thing is a
Speaker 1: couple of bulls, a bunch of cows, and they're just
Speaker 1: happily feeding away with a rifle. You'd be loving, but
Speaker 1: they're not going anywhere. They're gonna be out there until morning.
Speaker 1: It's your last night. You can't it's not really plausible
Speaker 1: to do a good sneak on them and you got
Speaker 1: You're like, I don't know, I gotta try. I gotta
Speaker 1: try something. I can't just let this right. I can't
Speaker 1: just let this one pass. And that's all you got
Speaker 1: last night. And you can't get three yards away without
Speaker 1: you can't get three yards away without spooking them. You're
Speaker 1: gonna have to just I mean, you're gonna have to
Speaker 1: try to call him in. See. It's just that you
Speaker 1: take their temperature as soon as you let that first.
Speaker 1: Probably caw call really loudly. Cow calls if they're three
Speaker 1: yards away. Chance not good? Ten under ten? Ser'ous? Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, Uh, I'm pretty under ten. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: not liking my odds on this one. But you gotta
Speaker 1: try something unless you have enough time left in the
Speaker 1: night to go find something else. So if you had
Speaker 1: enough time to go find something else, you might be like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna try to screw this up as fast
Speaker 1: as possible and then and then go find something else.
Speaker 1: That way to say, at least I gave it a shot. Um,
Speaker 1: that's tough. I usually like to to put and maybe
Speaker 1: I shouldn't put a number on it, but I'm pretty
Speaker 1: confident that in the mountains and normal hunting, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get it to at least see the bulls I hear,
Speaker 1: you know, at a fairly close range, maybe not all
Speaker 1: with an archy range, but I'm gonna see him in
Speaker 1: the timber, like at a point where I've called him
Speaker 1: into a spot, where I've snuck into a point something
Speaker 1: like that, Like I'm gonna be I'm probably gonna see
Speaker 1: him at the closest point. I'm gonna see him as
Speaker 1: they're walking away, like I'm not gonna probably turn that ball.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna get him to turn what you probably
Speaker 1: just see what you see if something crazy? Do you
Speaker 1: always with every group you work with, every group elk
Speaker 1: you work, are you like I'm either gonna call it
Speaker 1: or spook it, or do you sometimes just say like
Speaker 1: I'll find you tomorrow. So I'm not a I'm a
Speaker 1: how what's the quote, I'm a I have a trophy
Speaker 1: hunters mentality with a meat hunter's trigger finger, and so
Speaker 1: I just want to kill elk. But there have been
Speaker 1: a couple of occasions when the headgear has gotten me
Speaker 1: to a point like I'm not gonna screw this one
Speaker 1: up yet. I've got ten days left in season his
Speaker 1: bowl as a giant. I'm gonna give him one more
Speaker 1: you know, or a couple more chances before I blow
Speaker 1: him out of the country into a different drainage and
Speaker 1: the spot he is not familiar with. Um. Now, that's
Speaker 1: always bad. Sometimes I would rather hunt a bowl after
Speaker 1: I spook it so he's not as comfortable and its surroundings.
Speaker 1: But most of the time, I'm gonna bump him um.
Speaker 1: And a lot of times when we bump them, they
Speaker 1: haven't they haven't necessarily smelled us. In my opinion, them
Speaker 1: smelling us is are We've kind of screwed that up
Speaker 1: for a while. But if they just see us or
Speaker 1: hear us, um, I'd rather than see me personally walking
Speaker 1: towards them than to smell me. That's what That's the
Speaker 1: thing I've said to people is like I feel that
Speaker 1: they they don't always trust their eyes, and they don't
Speaker 1: always trust their ears, but they always trust their notes
Speaker 1: and and even their ears. So like, well, you call
Speaker 1: to them a specific way, like my buddies, they can
Speaker 1: all tell if it's me calling, I can tell which
Speaker 1: one of my buddies is calling. We'll have our own
Speaker 1: little unique style, and always like they can they tell like,
Speaker 1: do I need to switch calls? Do I need to
Speaker 1: switch my style? Because I was calling to them that
Speaker 1: way last night and then they seen, you know, me
Speaker 1: walking through the woods with my bow and my pack
Speaker 1: towards them, Like did they associate my calling with that?
Speaker 1: So if we go get on them again, do we
Speaker 1: need to switch? I don't know if I'm smart enough
Speaker 1: or like I we will just because we have a
Speaker 1: different call, or like say, hey, I was shoot last time,
Speaker 1: but we're going off to the same group, I'll call
Speaker 1: you shoot this time, just to give them a little
Speaker 1: bit different of a style. But I also believe if
Speaker 1: you sound enough like an ELK and a quality enough sounds,
Speaker 1: then doesn't really matter because always are gonna sound like OLK.
Speaker 1: So can you Can you fool him again the next day?
Speaker 1: And we have um, but I would assume him going
Speaker 1: with a little bit different sound. Do you guys ever,
Speaker 1: you and your bodies? Do you guys ever tag team
Speaker 1: on calling? We do? Is that advantageous? Especially when the
Speaker 1: whole the multiple cows get going and they're creating some
Speaker 1: excitement and we feel like we're losing some excitement to
Speaker 1: what the bull already has. We'll we'll get going back
Speaker 1: and forth um to pick it up. We don't do
Speaker 1: the primo style like guy drops the hundred yards back
Speaker 1: calling style though, because the way we hunt that color,
Speaker 1: which is now the the elk so to speak, is
Speaker 1: now two hundred yards away from this bull, and that
Speaker 1: might give him the chance to leave, dodge because the
Speaker 1: elkie thinks there isn't a threat that bowl or maybe
Speaker 1: around his cows up and leave. So a lot of
Speaker 1: times that color is right on my hip and it
Speaker 1: gives us a chance to communicate, like, hey, I can
Speaker 1: see something he can't like, stop biggling, stop cow calming off,
Speaker 1: he's hundre yards at um. You know, I love all
Speaker 1: the truth videos. I watched them all a hundred times.
Speaker 1: But the way that we have to hunt on public
Speaker 1: lands isn't the same as they got to hunt on
Speaker 1: the hill ranch. Yeah, you know that's a funny thing
Speaker 1: makes I was talking a new guy last night, a
Speaker 1: buddy mine. He's talking about this world record elk, and
Speaker 1: it was like everybody knew it was there, and it
Speaker 1: filmed it. Eventually a guide finds it. It's hiding out
Speaker 1: in some private land. Heidi hole they call a client
Speaker 1: on the phone, he books a trip to come out.
Speaker 1: It's like, that's all great and good, but that's not reality, man,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's just not reality. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's called cash. Yeah and yes, so we as
Speaker 1: much as I love those, it's just sending the sending
Speaker 1: the color way back has just never worked well for
Speaker 1: us a lot of times. And to this day, my
Speaker 1: buddy Charlie did call me in a bowl, but to
Speaker 1: this day I still called in every bowl life shot
Speaker 1: like I've never and when we do call for each other,
Speaker 1: we're usually writing each other's hip pockets, um. And it's
Speaker 1: it's really to create that that uh, that threat to
Speaker 1: that bowl, like I'm here, I'm on top of you,
Speaker 1: I'm on your cows. You have to come guys? Are
Speaker 1: you guys? Are You're like so much more, which is
Speaker 1: why you probably have to maintain that pressure distance. If
Speaker 1: we had to put a number, I know Steve loves numbers,
Speaker 1: Like if I had to put like a no, no, no, man,
Speaker 1: I don't know. If I had to put a I'm
Speaker 1: like nine beagles ten percent cowcus kinds of people. Nine
Speaker 1: beagles From the day, I'll leave the truck for the
Speaker 1: time I get back in September. To ten percent calcols,
Speaker 1: I would say probably represents nine bugles for every calcol
Speaker 1: for every ten calcols, ye, nine bagles for everyone, especially
Speaker 1: when we're locating. Really, I mean, we may let it.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm a little off on my numbers. I might
Speaker 1: calcol just to say I did before I rip a bugle.
Speaker 1: But usually I'm gonna maybe calcol twice from a spot
Speaker 1: and then I'll rip. I really want to locate from this,
Speaker 1: And now you do. You mostly hunt in the high
Speaker 1: pressure areas, high pressure units. I try to get into
Speaker 1: some areas within those high pressure units maybe that don't
Speaker 1: have as many people. Um the spot we you know,
Speaker 1: we we Idaho we hunt. I don't have on Washington
Speaker 1: for a while. Now, uh, Montana we hunt a lot.
Speaker 1: We're in units where there's lots of people down by
Speaker 1: the road. But if we get two or three miles in,
Speaker 1: we're typically fairly alone. But you might run into a
Speaker 1: hunter or two or a set of boot tracks here there.
Speaker 1: But um, there's a lot of hunters around, and these
Speaker 1: elk may have been called to but it's yeah, if
Speaker 1: there are a lot of hunters I might not locate
Speaker 1: bogle as much. Uh, And that's one of those other
Speaker 1: things like yeah, you can't even factor in, like if
Speaker 1: you're in a high pressure area, like I tone my
Speaker 1: location bugle back because you know, some everybody's in two
Speaker 1: miles can hear me up on this ridge line, and
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily want everybody on my ridge line, you know,
Speaker 1: or I say mine or on the ridge line at
Speaker 1: the same time I am. So you're like, well, maybe
Speaker 1: I just cal called the locat or maybe I taylor
Speaker 1: back or or cut back my location beagle, so not
Speaker 1: everybody knows I'm here, or do you get into a
Speaker 1: pass on a ridge line there's been elk here, Like
Speaker 1: I'll start to pick my point a little bit more wisely,
Speaker 1: like all right, I can smell him, I can see
Speaker 1: their tracks will be gole from here. But then I
Speaker 1: might not be agle and tell him out at the
Speaker 1: end of the ridge. Next. We had a time hunting
Speaker 1: me my brother where we're hearing as bold as going nuts.
Speaker 1: But it was like the one road in the area,
Speaker 1: and it was like calling from the road the ridge
Speaker 1: that the road is on, and I'm like, dude, that's
Speaker 1: a guy, you know, And we argued about and argued
Speaker 1: about it, and he said that's I'm like, that's a guy,
Speaker 1: and then let's just go. So we start walking on
Speaker 1: the role and pre soon walked into a group out. Yea,
Speaker 1: it can be hard to tell. Man. I take a
Speaker 1: lot of pride just because of Hi you on the
Speaker 1: call company. I don't ever want to get called in
Speaker 1: by somebody. And there's been there's been multiple times where
Speaker 1: I was about ready to bail, and my buddies like,
Speaker 1: let's just hang it out a little bit. We could,
Speaker 1: they won't know who we are. We can sneak out
Speaker 1: of here. And sure enough we call a bowler a
Speaker 1: whole herd in multiple times. And so now I'm a
Speaker 1: little more likely to hang it out. Like even you
Speaker 1: could be fooled. Yeah, your pride might be heard a
Speaker 1: little bit, but is it really worth you know, risk
Speaker 1: and not getting a chance into this bowl because you
Speaker 1: think it's a person. So I'd rather I'd rather hurt
Speaker 1: my pride a little bit then, But you you generally know,
Speaker 1: yeah you do. And and uh, I've called a ton
Speaker 1: of bulls in with my Premos terminator too. But like,
Speaker 1: now if I hear that thing, you know, flute across
Speaker 1: the canyon, Like I know exactly what that is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it may still it may still fool a bull, but
Speaker 1: I I can. I can pick a Premos terminator out,
Speaker 1: you know, almost anywhere at any time. Um, even most
Speaker 1: people call her. That are even some that are good
Speaker 1: on dire frams, Like, there's just some things they can't mimic.
Speaker 1: Even I can't mimic from a real bull, like the
Speaker 1: depth to get the guttural sound if you listen closely enough,
Speaker 1: sometimes you're like, yeah, that's a person. But then there's
Speaker 1: some really bad, honey elk that sound bad and they're
Speaker 1: they're real, So it's just tough. It's tough to pick out.
Speaker 1: We try to spend all this time sounding as good
Speaker 1: as we can, but in reality, the elk or a
Speaker 1: lot of times worse than worse than what we think
Speaker 1: you're supposed to. Yeah, what what's your I don't know
Speaker 1: if you get one or two or three or whatever,
Speaker 1: But like your death bed elk tips, like your elk
Speaker 1: tips that sum it all up. Where you're saying, like, man,
Speaker 1: if I could tell you one thing or two things,
Speaker 1: they're just generally applicable around elk calling. What would it
Speaker 1: be okay, I'll give you three um. First is set up.
Speaker 1: I get the chance, and I call it the fortune
Speaker 1: of listening to a lot of bad elk hunters, you know,
Speaker 1: in the position I'm in, Like, hey, your calls were awesome.
Speaker 1: I called these bulls into this and then I didn't
Speaker 1: get a shot. Its number one, when you set up
Speaker 1: whatever direction that bull is going to come from, make
Speaker 1: sure when he shows himself, either through vegetation or if
Speaker 1: it's on a train break coming up the hill to
Speaker 1: a plateau, make sure you're within bow range of where
Speaker 1: that break train or vegetations at to make sure that
Speaker 1: you get a shot. That's your setup that you need.
Speaker 1: So many people can do everything else right, but so many,
Speaker 1: I think, fail on this set up. They want to
Speaker 1: set up in a pile of brush, or they want
Speaker 1: to set up a hundred yards away from this spot.
Speaker 1: And as we talked in reality, that bulls gonna get
Speaker 1: to that spot, say that I should be able to
Speaker 1: see you somewhere out here, and he is going to stop.
Speaker 1: And that is that hold up position. So pretty much
Speaker 1: that was my my dad's like big elk story. He's
Speaker 1: from Michigan, but he went out to Colorado to do
Speaker 1: an elk hunt with my older half brother, and they
Speaker 1: had a bull working, and he said, I never thought
Speaker 1: about the fact that I had to shoot the bull.
Speaker 1: And he climbed into a tree, not into a tree,
Speaker 1: but like nestled into a tree, and the bull came
Speaker 1: ten yards away, and he realized that does the thing
Speaker 1: he forgot because he has to be able to shoot
Speaker 1: his bow. You jump in a pile of brush, you
Speaker 1: realize you got arrow sticking out front. You gotta stabilize
Speaker 1: he sometimes and if that thing doesn't come where you want,
Speaker 1: you gotta try to swing in there. And you got
Speaker 1: your elbow, your pat getting hooked on brush. It's just
Speaker 1: so yeah, I set up, I set up out in
Speaker 1: the open. Let let the you know, the terrain break
Speaker 1: me up behind. But really just get close to that
Speaker 1: terrain break or vegetation break. I got burned. It's funny, sick.
Speaker 1: Nothing like muled your hunting. In Nevada two years ago,
Speaker 1: I got where I had these bucks coming up, and
Speaker 1: I had snuck in on him and I had and
Speaker 1: I was up against the bush and I committed where
Speaker 1: I had my bow on one side right, didn't get
Speaker 1: a shot, and they passed through, but then they're super
Speaker 1: close and there was no way without doing major movement
Speaker 1: to be able to get my bow to the other
Speaker 1: side of and trying to do it spooked Bucks and
Speaker 1: I just had and I was like, I'm in on
Speaker 1: this angle and I'm add percent out on every other angle, yep,
Speaker 1: or just stupid stuff. As a right handed guy, I
Speaker 1: can't turn to my right at all, right, we can't.
Speaker 1: And there's been multiple times where like you expectable to
Speaker 1: go to the left and he goes to your right,
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, like, I'm gonna have a lot
Speaker 1: of movement here because I gotta actually now move my
Speaker 1: feet around he's at twenty five yards because I can
Speaker 1: swing way back to my left and still shoot with
Speaker 1: decent form. But to my right, I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: you're you're stuck. And uh so all that on set up,
Speaker 1: like I stuff I used to not think about until
Speaker 1: it costs me a lot of times. You keep adding
Speaker 1: to set up thing forever. But my little tidbit on
Speaker 1: that is that we used to see a lot of
Speaker 1: guys like they want to crouch and get low and
Speaker 1: like you're saying, people get like inside of like the
Speaker 1: branches of a fir tree. I'm like, dude, how are
Speaker 1: you ever gonna get your bow drawn back? But I
Speaker 1: think a big thing is always stay on your feet.
Speaker 1: Don't kneel, don't crouch down, like just trust that your
Speaker 1: cam was gonna work. Stand on your feet, because that
Speaker 1: just gives you so much more. Like you can take
Speaker 1: a step, and that might be that gets you the
Speaker 1: six inches for the window you need, right, And if
Speaker 1: you're on your knees, you're not doing that. Just do
Speaker 1: you always stand on your feet? I knew I was
Speaker 1: just scaring. Somebody asked me the other day, um on
Speaker 1: in a seminar, like, how many I've killed one bull
Speaker 1: off of my knees? Um? Out of however many of
Speaker 1: you know, thirty plus bulls I've killed, you know, archery,
Speaker 1: I've I've been on my knees like one time, um
Speaker 1: and that would end up being like a six yard shot.
Speaker 1: And the only reason I killed him off of my knees.
Speaker 1: I wasn't supposed to be the shooter. I kind of
Speaker 1: carved my buddy. I was calling the bull in for him.
Speaker 1: He got to like four yards of my buddy, but
Speaker 1: had him pinned, And you could tell by his actually
Speaker 1: as he was gonna get nervous and leave, and I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm only eight yards away, and I've got a bow
Speaker 1: and I've got a tag. So I actually knocked my
Speaker 1: row with him eight yards away and as the cameraman
Speaker 1: shot him. But that's the only one I've ever killed
Speaker 1: off my knees now because it was an accident. So
Speaker 1: you're like making a little sacrifice on hiding in order
Speaker 1: to get an advantage and mobility and good shot for him.
Speaker 1: But I and this is the goofiest rule ever, I
Speaker 1: don't ever look at Elk in the eye. As long
Speaker 1: as you don't look at Elk and the three tips. No,
Speaker 1: this is this is, this is bonus. Don't look him
Speaker 1: in the eyes. Like, I've never had an Elk pick
Speaker 1: me out as long as I haven't looked at it
Speaker 1: seems like you make an eye connection and something weird
Speaker 1: happens and they know. But if I keep my brain
Speaker 1: and my hat down, I've never been picked off by
Speaker 1: an Elk. I mean, I know they're smart, they can
Speaker 1: see good. But in that set up, like as long
Speaker 1: as I don't move and and like make I kind
Speaker 1: of I can't act with him. We're good. Um. Number
Speaker 1: two is if you're struggling, Um, don't don't commit to
Speaker 1: the spot number. You know, google Earth on x map
Speaker 1: and don't be afraid. It's kind of a combo. Get
Speaker 1: out and use the night time to night locate. Everybody
Speaker 1: wants to be in bed, eat dinner the magical hour.
Speaker 1: If you cannot get something going, go out and bugle
Speaker 1: from ten o'clock to midnight somewhere in your unit, and
Speaker 1: I guarantee you you have a play or two or
Speaker 1: three or four for the next morning. Um, everybody's I'm like, hey,
Speaker 1: I'd much rather take a nap under the tree from
Speaker 1: tender noon if nothing's going on, and save my energy,
Speaker 1: eat dinner and then either go drive around, go hiker
Speaker 1: ridge out, go hiker trail, and just rip bugles from
Speaker 1: ten to twelve. And I garn the midnight ten at night,
Speaker 1: so night. So I'm gonna take my nap in the
Speaker 1: midday instead of hunt to make sure I'm not tired.
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna go bugle from ten at night to
Speaker 1: maybe So you'd rather sleep ten am to noon in
Speaker 1: order to make up for the fact ten pm midnight,
Speaker 1: make sure when you get one to respond, do not
Speaker 1: resist the urge to keep bagling and getting him the
Speaker 1: sound off. Just it's nice. You cannot do anything about it.
Speaker 1: You know he's there. He's nobody else is crazy enough
Speaker 1: to be you out being at night. You've got him located.
Speaker 1: Typically he will be within four yards max. Of that area.
Speaker 1: He's usually out to feed. Then, um, he'll be there
Speaker 1: in the morning. I'm gonna gives you a for sure
Speaker 1: play makes because we really got so many days and mornings.
Speaker 1: You want to make sure you have a play every
Speaker 1: morning and almost every night, so that guarantees I'm at
Speaker 1: least on an elk that that next morning. Ump. That
Speaker 1: was my That was one of my tips, Like, it's
Speaker 1: not necessarily a you know, I do this, but it's
Speaker 1: something that everybody should be doing. Unless you're just covered
Speaker 1: up in bowls all day long, then there's no need
Speaker 1: to do it. Uh. Number three, it all comes down
Speaker 1: to wind. Um, we're back to set up and this
Speaker 1: is really where I said up an approach. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think everybody fails in that set up. But the wind.
Speaker 1: We always get the wind right, and if you have
Speaker 1: the wind perfect on your nose, that bowl is typically
Speaker 1: going to come in straight on if you can use
Speaker 1: the wind as a steering wheel to help yourself out.
Speaker 1: So if I have the wind that hits, say my
Speaker 1: cheek a thirty or forty five agree angle, I still
Speaker 1: got plenty of of conservancy built into my setup. But
Speaker 1: I'm now just guaranteed that if I'm facing the bull,
Speaker 1: the winds hitting me on the right cheek, that that
Speaker 1: bowl is now gonna come to my left. And we'll
Speaker 1: sometimes because he wants to circle down wind, he wants
Speaker 1: to get wind on you, and so by doing a
Speaker 1: lot of times, we'll even make a call and then
Speaker 1: move a little bit. So we'll make a call and
Speaker 1: then move into the wind, so we know that he's
Speaker 1: gonna basically j hook or you know, half moon right
Speaker 1: into us. Um, so that's something in the setup. Or
Speaker 1: if you have a caller, say that same winds hit
Speaker 1: my right cheek, if that collar backs up maybe just
Speaker 1: fifteen yards to my to my uh you know, four o'clock,
Speaker 1: my three thirty from where I'm located, he's gonna drag
Speaker 1: that bull right into me. Now, Albeit we can't control
Speaker 1: whether that bull wants to make a hundred fifty yards circle,
Speaker 1: a hundred yards circle or fifty yard circle. You know, Um,
Speaker 1: it's it still may not be enough, but I can
Speaker 1: at least guarantee that bull well guarantee most of the time, Um,
Speaker 1: that that bulll is gonna come broadside through my shooters location.
Speaker 1: You know, Um, just for setup, and that's gonna help
Speaker 1: all hime, because I honestly think a lot of hunters
Speaker 1: out there, they've got the locating down there in good areas.
Speaker 1: They can do everything right. They can even call decent
Speaker 1: enough to call these things in. They just fell at
Speaker 1: the setup and and you hear these story after story
Speaker 1: like I just everything nuts. I just couldn't get a
Speaker 1: shot all year, and yeah, either hang ups or just
Speaker 1: stuff's not working. And so I really think it comes
Speaker 1: down to that setup and then using the wind to
Speaker 1: get him to a spot where where you can get
Speaker 1: a shot. Any last thoughts, No, I'm we're gonna talk.
Speaker 1: You could do a good ELK take this year, and
Speaker 1: I get a quick one. I got a quick question,
Speaker 1: just like how do I get that higher pitch you're
Speaker 1: talking about? It's gonna help me get more locateds what
Speaker 1: I needed to do. So as a caller, there's there's
Speaker 1: two factors that that play into. There's there's air that
Speaker 1: you can put across the reed, and there's pressure you
Speaker 1: can apply with your tongue. Um, So it's kind of
Speaker 1: and and a lot of us call. With the balance
Speaker 1: of that, you're you're applying a little bit of both.
Speaker 1: So you're gonna want either more pressure. But if that
Speaker 1: locks the call out, you need to you maybe as
Speaker 1: maybe it locks out like breaks you lose that note. Ye,
Speaker 1: So then you're like, all right, I can't any more pressure.
Speaker 1: I need to just put more air across. If that
Speaker 1: doesn't work, I would highly recommend moving the call in
Speaker 1: your mouth a little bit, either forward or back, and
Speaker 1: finding a spot that maybe allows, uh, you know, some
Speaker 1: pressure to hit it a little bit different. Can I
Speaker 1: give you one see if you can tell me what
Speaker 1: which one I need to do? So this is Yanni
Speaker 1: ripping a brand new Phelps out of the package, Signature
Speaker 1: series out of the package brand new Phelps too. I
Speaker 1: like these bugle and tubes that are like a small
Speaker 1: or more packable tube because a lot of times you
Speaker 1: look at the damn tube, right you can you can
Speaker 1: carry this thing in your cargo pocket. That's where mine
Speaker 1: might be. It fits in. I designed it to be
Speaker 1: the same size. It will fit in a normal this
Speaker 1: a small water bottle, and then and then and then
Speaker 1: it'll you don't even need anything else attached. It'll literally
Speaker 1: just stuff in the water with this new little one
Speaker 1: called the unrivaled tube. V m h m hm. Let
Speaker 1: me tell you, good Yana story. We're hunting out you got.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was a read. The one
Speaker 1: you biggled on before they started hit a lower pitch,
Speaker 1: but that one seemed to definitely go high enough. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's it's a year old read. That was That was good? Really,
Speaker 1: you might you probably made me just sound bad. Let
Speaker 1: me tell story. We're on out in Kentucky and one
Speaker 1: day we're just out and it's kind of got like
Speaker 1: middle of day old rooms, you know, and we sat
Speaker 1: like eight lunch not being because we were in like
Speaker 1: kind of like checking out this other area. We weren't
Speaker 1: even like serious about what he was having to wander
Speaker 1: in this area to see what's going on, saying eight lunch,
Speaker 1: shooting the ship okay, and then he just decided the
Speaker 1: rip of people more just like whatever, and also walks
Speaker 1: into us. He'd been lander listening to our conversation. It
Speaker 1: just comes right in and then here's the Kentucky out
Speaker 1: and here's a bugle, and all of a sudden stands up.
Speaker 1: And also somebody hears the noise and it'll just walks
Speaker 1: up to us. That's awesome. We've we've we've had a
Speaker 1: lot of lunch. A matter of fact, that two does
Speaker 1: a lot of lunch bowls. A lot of lunch bowls
Speaker 1: are nat bowls where we're just napping in like one
Speaker 1: of us like, do you hear that? How's a raven? No,
Speaker 1: it wasn't get up, Maybe let a little calcol and
Speaker 1: then he hammers back. You're like, oh shoot, you know
Speaker 1: everybody's running to get get set up. But we've called
Speaker 1: multiple bowls lunch. You're just because you're a little more
Speaker 1: you're just listening to hanging out and you get a
Speaker 1: bold answer and you'll call him in. Right there, we're
Speaker 1: eating lunch. It's just it's crazy. Um, you know when
Speaker 1: and how but that that midday. If you can get
Speaker 1: a bowl to answer ten to two, your chances are good.
Speaker 1: It's just like hunting turkeys. Good sounds like you're hunting turkey.
Speaker 1: A quick question on this uh this tube? Why is
Speaker 1: it not just a straight pipe on the end. Why
Speaker 1: does it roll in? Is that for like reverberation for
Speaker 1: back pressure. So you can take a one and half
Speaker 1: inch diameter PBC pipe and blow through it, but there's
Speaker 1: no resistance. Nobody. You can go down to a one
Speaker 1: inch and there's no resistance, or three quarters and you
Speaker 1: or you can take like my my big tube or
Speaker 1: that that new and rival tube that's a four inch
Speaker 1: diameter tube and you have to blow a quarter of
Speaker 1: the air through this as you do a one inch
Speaker 1: piece PBC pipe. It all has to do with the
Speaker 1: back pressure. And what that does is when you get
Speaker 1: up and grab that high note that we were just
Speaker 1: talking about, it just kind of sits there for you.
Speaker 1: It's easy to hold that note instead of wavering versus
Speaker 1: if I had, you know, a straight piece of corrugated pipe.
Speaker 1: It's very very difficult, even for a guy like myself
Speaker 1: that can control that high note to sit there and
Speaker 1: hold it and put enough air across that. So that's
Speaker 1: why we kind of, you know, one of the things
Speaker 1: we've did on both these tubes as we kind of
Speaker 1: overcut the end to provide their right amount of back
Speaker 1: pressure on the little tube. It was a little more
Speaker 1: difficult because you don't want to give up too much volume.
Speaker 1: The smaller you make that whole, the less volume you
Speaker 1: get out of it. So it's kind of a balance
Speaker 1: of let's make sure there's enough back pressure that we
Speaker 1: can run the call versus still get enough volume that
Speaker 1: it's effective enough to pack around in the in the woods.
Speaker 1: And you're just selling calls like a mofa right now,
Speaker 1: like people are ordering right now. It is absolute, it
Speaker 1: is thinking about it. It's it's awesome. I can't can't
Speaker 1: say anything else. Uh, my wife and mom, I think
Speaker 1: you're ready for uh for the middle October since they're
Speaker 1: managing most of it. But it's it's been an incredible
Speaker 1: year for us. When when does when do people start
Speaker 1: getting fired up about buying calls and when do they
Speaker 1: kind of forget about it? July? I always at the
Speaker 1: fourth of July is kind of the big the big bump,
Speaker 1: and we can see it in our numbers for the
Speaker 1: last four years. Light off all their fireworks. They're ready.
Speaker 1: You see a little bit of a bump um you
Speaker 1: know when the draw start. But draws are kind of
Speaker 1: all across the board, so you also people start pulling tags. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they get serious all of a sudden. Um, July and
Speaker 1: August have always been our best month. So August has
Speaker 1: been the best month the last two years. So it's
Speaker 1: right now is really at the height of UM. And
Speaker 1: then you've got the difference in we sell the vendors
Speaker 1: versus selling off of our website. The vendors have already
Speaker 1: kind of preloaded a lot of their stuff they needed
Speaker 1: in the story. This thing about the difference, and so
Speaker 1: the vendors may start to tail off a little bit
Speaker 1: where our website they're kind of crossing. UM. So it's
Speaker 1: been good. I'm I'm ready for September and I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna lie. Yeah, to take off. Jason Phelps Phelps game
Speaker 1: calls as usual. Thank you for coming on, man, thanks
Speaker 1: for having It's always very informative.