1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hartunger. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: On the side, we are two working parents who love 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: and time for fun. From figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,319 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode two hundred and eighty two, 11 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: which is first airing at the very beginning of January 12 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. Haven't been able to say that a lot. 13 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 1: I suppose it will be getting more of a habit 14 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: by the time this airs. In this episode, I am 15 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: going to be interviewing Anne Bogul, who I know a 16 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: lot of our listeners are already familiar with. She runs 17 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: a wonderful website called Modern Missus Darcy, which is full 18 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: of book recommendations along with lifestyle content. She has a 19 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 1: great summer reading guide that lots of people can't wait 20 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: to get their hands on. Every summer. She also hosts 21 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: a very popular podcast called What Should I Read Next, 22 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: which aims to answer that perennial question for people who 23 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: love to read, what should I read Next? So we'll 24 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 1: be talking with Ann about mostly how to have a 25 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: really good book club. I know a lot of people 26 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: want to get together more with friends, they want to 27 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: read more. Book clubs seem like a great way to 28 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 1: combine them. So if you are thinking of starting a 29 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: book club this year, or you are in one but 30 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: would like to take it up a notch, you will 31 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: definitely want to listen to Anne's advice. So, Sarah, you 32 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: have in fact started book clubs plural, I believe, right. Yeah, Well, 33 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: I've been in three book clubs. The first one I 34 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: did not start, So I guess that was kind of 35 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: like my template or model of what a book club 36 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: could be. When I moved to Miami Beach, my sister 37 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: in law was nice enough to send me an invite 38 00:01:57,840 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: to the book club that she was in, and it 39 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: was a pretty large book club and fairly structured, like 40 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: well run, and I recognized that book clubs are really 41 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 1: really fun. I liked the idea of having a signed 42 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: reading every once in a while. I liked the excuse 43 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: to bond with women, I liked talking about books, and 44 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: I like not talking about books at a book club. 45 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: So all of those are really really fun. And the 46 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: best part about that book club was it was often 47 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,359 Speaker 1: very local and I could all know, even walk sometimes, 48 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: which was great. Then I decided somewhere in there to 49 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: start a parenting book club, kind of a spinoff. Now 50 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: this was not as large at all, and it was 51 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: meant for couples because we felt like parenting was not 52 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: something that you know, us as women wanted to talk 53 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: about alone, but with incorporating our partners, and it was fantastic. 54 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: I think we had about four couples at its peak, 55 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: maybe five, where one didn't come very often. But that 56 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: was it, Like, that's all we were aiming for. We 57 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: weren't looking to expand. It was almost more of a 58 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: glorified dinner party club amongst friends where we had a 59 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: book that we would talk about. It was so much fun. 60 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: And then I ruined it by well, Covid ruined it, 61 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: but I also ruined it by moving away. So not 62 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,399 Speaker 1: that I moved that far, but it just became impractical 63 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: to make this a regular thing. Although truthfully, we go 64 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: to Miami Beach all the time, and I have spoken 65 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: with our good friends about bringing back the book club, 66 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 1: so it may actually resurrect itself in the future, the 67 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: Parenting book Club. And then finally, in my new neighborhood 68 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: after I moved, I really didn't know a lot of people, 69 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: and one way in which I felt like I could 70 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: kill two birds with one stone was to create a 71 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: book club so that I would have a book club 72 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: to go to and I could meet more people in 73 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: my neighborhoods. So I started that last summer, and it 74 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: has been a little difficult because I'm not sure that 75 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: my current community has as many readers as my old 76 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: one did, but it has slowly grown, and I've we've 77 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: kind of expanded outside of the walls of our immediate 78 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: community where I live to find interested people. And we've 79 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: met three times. Two of those times have been at 80 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: my house, but we do have a fourth meeting schedule 81 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: not at my house, and every time we've done it, 82 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: I've had a lot of fun. So I also will say, 83 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: and I don't know what Ann's gonna say, but a 84 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: book club does not need to be large to be fun. 85 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: It could be just like three people doesn't matter. If 86 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: you like to read and you want an excuse to 87 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 1: meet and chat over books with snacks and maybe some wine, 88 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: then a book club can be a ton of fun. Yeah. Actually, 89 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: Anne refused to tell me what the right number of 90 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: people was, and partly because she said there's people who 91 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: have successful book clubs. I'm putting club in quote marks, 92 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: where you're basically buddy reading with a friend. You can 93 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,239 Speaker 1: also have so many people that you wind up having 94 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 1: spin off groups from kind of the mothership book club, 95 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: I guess because it's so large, so it can work 96 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: in different ways. And I know I've not really been 97 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: part of a regular book club. It's something that I 98 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: wouldn't mind being part of. I don't know that I'm 99 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: going to organize one in my immediate local area personal life, 100 00:04:55,839 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 1: but Sarah and I are hosting a best of both 101 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: Worlds book club through our Patreon community. We've been having 102 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:05,679 Speaker 1: so much fun over the past year and a half 103 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: getting together regularly virtually with this community, which keeps growing 104 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: and has a lot of people who comment regularly on 105 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,919 Speaker 1: our discussion threads, and we thought, well, we'd like to 106 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,840 Speaker 1: discuss books together as well, So this year, we are 107 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: going to have the best of both world's book club 108 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: through our Patreon community. We will discuss four titles over 109 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: the course of the year, and so if you'd like 110 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: to be part of that, please come join us. We 111 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: were having a great time. It isn't the meantime. Yeah, 112 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: well sorry, what were gonna say? Sarah as to say, 113 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: I'm super excited. I'm super excited for the Patreon book club. 114 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: It will be a lot of fun. But in the meantime, 115 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:43,359 Speaker 1: let's hear from Ann about how we can have a 116 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 1: great book club or take an existing book club up 117 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:50,239 Speaker 1: a notch. So Sarah and I are delighted to welcome 118 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: and Bogel to the program. So An, can you introduce 119 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 1: yourself to our listeners? Sure. My home on the web 120 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: is Modern Missus Darcy, where I've been blogging since twenty 121 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: a lie, and when I'm joking, I say I read 122 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: books for a living, which is a little bit true, 123 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: not completely, but I do get to talk about the 124 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: books and reading I love in Modern Missus Darcy book 125 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: Club on the What Should I Read Next? Podcast? On 126 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: the blog. I have all the outlets to do, this 127 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: is my tone, all the outlets to talk about all 128 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: the books and how did you wind up in this 129 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: line of work. I'm sure many people are like, well, 130 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 1: I would love to read books for a living. Where 131 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: do I apply? And tell me where I apply? I 132 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 1: have bad news the real money that actually you know 133 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 1: does buy the groceries. And I have four teenagers. Laura, 134 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: you have five kids. You know that that is a 135 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 1: big deal that you don't get that just from sitting 136 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 1: in your favorite chair and opening the book. But still 137 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: it's fun to it's fun to have to read and 138 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: hasn't gotten old yet. I was actually working in the 139 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: legal field when my husband and I had a late 140 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: night conversation around New Year's where he suggested I start 141 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: a blog, and I said, well, that's stupid. I don't 142 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: even read blogs. What are you talking about? But he 143 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: was a blog reader, and I think he was actually 144 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 1: doing some blogging for his job at the time. That 145 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: was an outlet they were trying, and he persuaded me 146 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: that that might be a fun, kind of creative outlet 147 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: that I didn't have in my life back then. Laura, 148 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: I feel like this is a common story. I had 149 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: four kids. Everything was insanity, I was working and I 150 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: didn't really have my own thing, and he thought this 151 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: could be a good one, so I started writing to 152 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: strangers on the internet. I didn't even tell my mom 153 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: about it. For the first four months, nobody knew. I mean, 154 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: I did really take to it. I really enjoyed it. 155 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: And it wasn't all about books though at the beginning. 156 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: That was kind of a direction you went eventually as 157 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: you got a lot of feedback from your readers. But 158 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: if I recall back in the early days of modern 159 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: Missus Darcy, there was more in the lifestyle content space. 160 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: I mean, how did you sort of feel your way 161 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: into the book specialty. That's very true and even today, 162 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: my favorite description of what Missus Darcy is now is 163 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: it's a lifestyle blog for nerds, but we do have 164 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: more books than I ever imagine. We'd have the advantage 165 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: of blogging in your basement when nobody knows that it's 166 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: you and that you're writing, as you really get to 167 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,239 Speaker 1: experiment and see what you enjoy writing and what readers 168 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: enjoy reading. And I found that my favorite kinds of 169 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: posts were to whether I was talking about the book 170 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: itself or talking about a topic that I was thinking 171 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: about in my own life. Is I'd find that if 172 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: I use the book as a way, in like a 173 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: way to start the conversation. Hey, I was reading this 174 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: book and it got me thinking about this thing that's 175 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: happening right now. I really enjoyed that. I think I 176 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: really enjoyed that because I have always loved reading, and 177 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: also it made the conversation that seems so random. Hey, 178 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: here is why I'm thinking about this topic right now. 179 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: Let's talk about it. And so that you pivoted from 180 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 1: having this book content to I would say being a 181 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: little bit more focused on it when the podcast launched. 182 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: Is that sort of when you put your flag on 183 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: the hill and said, you know, this is the book world. 184 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: That's so funny because I don't think of it as 185 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: a hard pivot. I thought of it launching a new project. Yes, 186 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: we started What Should I Read Next in very early 187 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, which means our seventh anniversary is happening basically 188 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: right now. I just really liked the idea of doing 189 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: a podcast, beginning when my friends started podcasting in probably 190 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen. But I didn't know 191 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: what I'd talk about, and we talked with a couple 192 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: of networks that said, let's make the Modern Missus Darcy Show, 193 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: and that just didn't interest me because I was already 194 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: doing that. But I had this idea for it was 195 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: actually a long running blog series called Literary Matchmaking, where 196 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 1: readers would tell me three books they loved, one book 197 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: they didn't, and what they've been reading lately, and I 198 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: would recommend three titles they should read next. And I've 199 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: talked a lot about why that is the format, but 200 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: I thought I thought that would get us too good 201 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: recommendations for individual readers, so I ran it as a 202 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: blog series and just didn't really enjoy the written format. 203 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: I found myself wanting to have a conversation and it 204 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: took me an embarrassing long amount of time to realize, Wait, 205 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: there's a way you can have those conversations. It's called 206 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,559 Speaker 1: a podcast. This could be fun. But when we met 207 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: with networks to actually do the show, they said why 208 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: books and Reading, Like, can we just call it the 209 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: Modern Missus Darcy Show because that's already your brand? But 210 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: I guess I had what's the luxury of being able 211 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: to try something new because it sounded interesting, and that's 212 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: what we did. And it is true that books and 213 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: reading did become a lot more of my world and 214 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: of my paycheck, like when that started in a very 215 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: real way. Yeah, well, speaking of which, you are now 216 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: the host of the Modern Missus Darcy book Club as well. 217 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: Can you tell me a little bit about that part 218 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: of your business. Yeah, we actually started that. I mean 219 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen was a big year. We started that in 220 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: summer of twenty sixteen. We have always made a really 221 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: big deal about our summer reading guide and our summer 222 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: reading season, which again was my husband's idea. Like back 223 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 1: in twenty twelve, you get really excited about summer reading, 224 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: maybe this would be fun for your audience, and so 225 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: we gave a summer reading guide a try. This is 226 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: our more private community, private because you get to have 227 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 1: the intimate kind conversations you can have when you know 228 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: a stranger on the internet can't come dive bomb, go 229 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: up the conversation, say nasty things. So this is our 230 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: community devoted to classes in conversation and that twenty four 231 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: to seven literary community where we read books together, we 232 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: talk about them. We have classes dedicated to their reading 233 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 1: life with a community of readers that you really get 234 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: to know and spend time with. And learn to really 235 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: I think trust for good conversations that teach you, of course, 236 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 1: more about how to be a good reader, but also 237 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: you can learn so much about yourself and it benefits 238 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: your life so much when you can actually read a 239 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: book in such a way that it opens up your 240 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: world instead of just being a distraction for a few hours. 241 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: I love escapist reading and it's always good. And also 242 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 1: there is more to be found in the pages of 243 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: books if we want to find it. Yeah, exactly, And 244 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: I know a lot of our listeners are looking for 245 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: more good conversations, looking to learn more, get more out 246 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,439 Speaker 1: of their reading life, and are thinking about starting book clubs. 247 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: Are already in book clubs, want to take them up 248 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: a notch, and so we wanted to have you on 249 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: the program to provide some guidance on that. I mean, first, 250 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 1: backing up a little bit, why are book clubs popular? 251 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: We all know that you can get together with your 252 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: friends and drink wine in the absence of books, So 253 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 1: what is it about adding books that has elevates the 254 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:27,839 Speaker 1: group a little bit? Why are they so popular? Well? 255 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: I have my theory, and I already hinted at it 256 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: when I was talking about how back in the day, 257 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: I found that talking about something i'd been reading was 258 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: a good way in it was my open door to 259 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: talk about a topic that had been on my mind, 260 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: that was relevant to my life that I wanted to discuss. 261 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: And I think that's so true with books in general, 262 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: and I think that's part of the magic of book clubs. 263 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: Like you can get together with your friends, and if 264 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: they're really good friends, you might say, Hey, I'm going 265 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 1: to pour my heart and soul out to you and 266 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: tell you my deepest thoughts and longings and desires and 267 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: everything that means, and let's explore that together. But if 268 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: you don't know people very well or even with good friends, 269 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: like there has to be a certain mood for that 270 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: to happen. But a book is an invitation to say, hey, like, 271 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 1: here's this exploration of love and family and grief and 272 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: betrayal and longing and redemption, and it's all right there 273 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:19,199 Speaker 1: on the pages of the book, so you can talk 274 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 1: about those things that really matter, really really easily, really effortlessly, 275 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: really in a non socially awkward way. I think that's 276 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: the appeal. We all want to be a little bit 277 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: less socially awkward. All right, Well, we'll be right back 278 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: talking more with Anne Bogo of Modern Missus Darcy after 279 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: this quick break. Well, I am back with Anne talking 280 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: all things Modern Missus Darcy and book clubs and how 281 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: we can have good book clubs or better book clubs 282 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: of we already have one. So nuts and bolts here an, 283 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: if I am going to start a book club, what 284 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: should I do? I mean, like, how many people focus? 285 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: How frequently? Like anything that you've seen best practices with here. 286 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: The good and the bad news is that your options 287 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: are infinite. And I say that's good news because you 288 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: have lots of options. But sometimes people really want a 289 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: list of instructions to follow and I can't offer you that. 290 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: One of the things I get to do in my 291 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: job is talk to readers, like thousands of readers all 292 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: the time about what has worked in their reading life, 293 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: what hasn't. We actually hosted a class for the first 294 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: time in Modern Missus Darcy book club ever this fall. 295 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: It's been one of our popular requested topics over the years, 296 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: and we finally did it, and that was how to 297 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: create a great book club experience, where we talked about 298 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: hosting in person book clubs and what we did for 299 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: that event was we gathered four of our team members 300 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: together and we shared our highs and lows, our book 301 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: club success stories, and the things that have really bombed 302 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: and why. And it was really fun to hear, like 303 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: just a great variety of experiences and what the possibilities are. 304 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: I think the thing you need to do if you 305 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: want to start a book club is you need one 306 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: friend or soon to be friend who's interested in going 307 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: on this journey with you. Because to have a book 308 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: club you do need more than one person. And once 309 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: you have that person, you can decide do we just 310 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: want to buddy read books and talk about them together 311 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: while we're going on a walk, you know, like this 312 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: is the lap we dedicate to catching up on our lives, 313 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: and this is the lap we dedicate to talking about 314 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: our latest reads. You can do that. But once you 315 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: have that first person, just to think about what you 316 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: want from the club or Lord, you don't even have 317 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: to go in that order. You can start by thinking 318 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: what kind of book club you want to have. Like 319 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: a book club just popped up in my neighborhood, and 320 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: like you said, neighbors who don't know each other are 321 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: seeking to get to know each other better and have 322 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: a reason to gather, and they're going to find their readers, 323 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: and then they're going to decide what they want their 324 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: book club to look like. Sometimes it starts from the 325 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: other direction. Somebody says, you know what, I want to 326 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: read more literary fiction, or I want to read more 327 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: romance because my life is really heavy right now, or 328 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: I want to read more history. But your options are infinite. 329 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: But I think what you want to think about first 330 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: is either who you want to spend more time with 331 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: or what kind of reading experience you're looking to gain. 332 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: Is there a point where it gets unwieldy the like 333 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: I mean, if I'm having an in person, they have 334 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: to fit in my living room. I mean that's sort 335 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: of a limiting factor. Maybe it can be. I've seen 336 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: some book clubs split in half, and then that can 337 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: be a little awkward where everybody decides who goes where. 338 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: And also I've seen some book clubs fizzle when people 339 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: couldn't decide how to split. So it's true, but you 340 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: don't even have a book club yet, So I think 341 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: it is jumping the gun a little bit to worry 342 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: about what might happen next. There are some book clubs 343 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: that are I'm really impressed by this, Laura, because you 344 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: know that you are a very methodical personality type and 345 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: I am more free wheeling. But I have friends in 346 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: book clubs where there are a certain number of seats, 347 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: there's a waiting list if you want to get in, 348 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: there's a committee that decides what everybody will read, and 349 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: there's a set list of questions that does not change 350 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: from book to book, the same questions every time. I mean, 351 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: there are book clubs like this, but most people are 352 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: going to say, Hey, do I have any friends that 353 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 1: like to read or could be talked into it if 354 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 1: they want to go out when Thursday a month, let's 355 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: get together and make a plan. Yeah, And is that 356 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 1: one Thursday a month kind of rhythm a wise one? 357 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: I mean, have you seen that as being the most 358 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 1: frequent like once a month, or I mean, is there 359 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: another good rhythm? It depends on the setting. I know 360 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: that there are a lot of or at least I've 361 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:35,479 Speaker 1: talked to a lot of readers who are in workplace 362 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: book clubs that happen weekly, like Thursdays, the day where 363 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:40,880 Speaker 1: we get together and we talk about our business book 364 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: in the cafeteria for people who are doing it socially. 365 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: Sometimes it often depends on the stage of life. Monthly 366 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: is the most common I talk to, but quarterly does 367 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 1: happen if people find they're too busy in general to 368 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,880 Speaker 1: make that feel feasible. And what about folks who are 369 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: in sort of middling book clubs, Like maybe you've got 370 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: a book club that's okay, Yeah, is there anything you've 371 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: seen that helps people maybe take it up a notch? 372 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,959 Speaker 1: That can be tricky, especially depending on whether or not 373 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,880 Speaker 1: they are the person in charge. Also, again the good 374 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 1: and the bad news is that book clubs, in my observation, 375 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: do seem to run better when there is someone who 376 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: can kind of take the helm, who can remind everyone, hey, 377 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 1: this is our purpose, and who can say what was 378 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:30,919 Speaker 1: the question again, because suddenly we're talking about our kid 379 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: soccer practices. I think it's really important to make sure 380 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,679 Speaker 1: everybody knows why they're meeting together, like what is the 381 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 1: purpose of this particular book club, because that really helps 382 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: you decide how you choose books, what topics are fair game, 383 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: how late you're going to stay, like are you coming 384 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: to learn more about literature? Are you coming to form 385 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 1: deeper connections with friends. Some people start meeting in a 386 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: book club and that purpose is never stated, and the 387 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: different book club participants may have different ideas about why 388 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: they're coming together in the first place, so interrupting in 389 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: the middle can be tricky. But if your book club 390 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,239 Speaker 1: has ideally from the outset a purpose, it will make 391 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: it so much easier to keep it feeling beneficial and 392 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: enjoyable to everybody involved. And you mentioned that some of 393 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 1: your team members had discussed the things that had gone 394 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 1: really well, and so you've seen that there's a variety 395 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: of experience also that things had bombed. I'm wondering if 396 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 1: you could share some sort of examples of book club bombing. 397 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: I'm very curious how that was, how that happens. Well, 398 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: I'll borrow an example that we shared on a recent 399 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 1: What Should I Read Next episode? So this guest knew 400 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: that like one hundred thousand people are going to listen 401 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 1: to her story, so I think I'm okay to share 402 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: it with you. But she said she'd basically been kicked 403 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 1: out a book club for being too intense. So I said, 404 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: I think it was I think it was Jada Graf. 405 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 1: I said, Oh, you have to tell me about what happened, 406 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: and she's a big reader who gets I mean, she 407 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: either was an English major or is an English major 408 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: at heart. That's what I am. I'm an English major 409 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: at heart, actually an education major. She came to book 410 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: club and she used the words theme and structure in 411 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: back to back contributions, and she was stopped by these 412 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 1: lovely people that she didn't know super They weren't like 413 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: great friends, but she knew them socially, and they said, 414 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: this is not that kind of book club. We don't 415 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: want to talk about theme. We don't want you to 416 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 1: use your words from your school days, like you gotta 417 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: chill or you gotta leave. And she found another book 418 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: club where she's very happy. Laura, that's good. A book 419 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: club where you can argue from the text and support 420 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 1: your examples text defendent analysis. All some readers want is 421 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: like I mean, we joke in our Modern Missus Darcy 422 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: book Club that we have a strong contingent of readers 423 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,360 Speaker 1: who get so excited about homework. They want homework, they 424 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: want worksheets, they want to argue from the text, and 425 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:50,880 Speaker 1: then we have plenty of readers who are a lot 426 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: more casual. But it's important for everybody to know, like 427 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,360 Speaker 1: what kind of book club are we? Is it welcome 428 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: here to like ask to be able to flip to 429 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: page one sixty eight and evaluate this intax that really matters. 430 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: It's good to know those things. Yes, you don't want 431 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 1: to get kicked out of book club now, I would 432 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: not want to get kicked out of book club. She's 433 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: took pains to say that it was about book club. 434 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: They are all still friends. Well that's good. Yeah, I'm 435 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: glad they were able to move past their differing approaches 436 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: to studying literature. So choosing books to read. Sarah and 437 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: I are doing a best of both worlds book club 438 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: over the course of this coming year with our Patreon community, 439 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: and we've been trying to figure out, you know, what 440 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: makes a good book club book? So what does modernists 441 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: Darcy have to say about a good book club selection? Oh, 442 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: I have thoughts because it's not the same thing as 443 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 1: something that might be an enjoyable read just for you 444 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: on your own in modern missus Darcy book club, like, 445 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: we have our purpose in our two guiding lights are 446 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: we want discoverability for our readers who love to find 447 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,400 Speaker 1: new books that they might not have come across otherwise 448 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 1: and discussibility. I think that discoverability that might not be 449 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: important to your book club, but I do think discussibility 450 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,919 Speaker 1: is crucial. You don't want a book where everybody says 451 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: I liked it and just there's nothing to talk about. 452 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 1: You want a book that you can really dig into. 453 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 1: So this often looks like controversial books with quirky characters 454 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: and strange endings. It can look like books where the 455 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: book club members feel a lot of relatability to the characters. 456 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: It can be a novel that's a really ambitious where 457 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 1: the author is doing things that are unusual, and so 458 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: you can evaluate like why did the author make those 459 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: choices and did they actually work. A special category book 460 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: I always look at for book club is a book 461 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: with an ambiguous ending that really gives you something to 462 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 1: talk about, like, what do you think really happened? Did 463 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: you like it? What were they doing there? Wait? Are 464 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: you sure that's what happen? Because I thought that what 465 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 1: the author was trying to say, Like, the kinds of 466 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: things that really give you something to talk about are 467 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: great selections, because that's what you want. You want a 468 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 1: good conversation. Can you give an example or two of 469 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 1: some of the best book club discussion books you've seen lately, ooh, 470 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: the best I've seen lately. Superlatives are so hard, but 471 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: I will say that I'm an Amertoles fan. I loved Resonsibility. 472 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: I think that's my favorite. But his new book, The 473 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: Lincoln Highway, my experience reading it was I loved it 474 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 1: for six hundred pages and I hated the last three, 475 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: really really strongly hated the last three. That's something to 476 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: talk about in book club. To go back aways with 477 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 1: a different genre. Into the woods Bitana French is a 478 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think how much do I want to 479 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: say and what counts as a story. That book has 480 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,679 Speaker 1: now been out well over ten years, and readers are 481 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,479 Speaker 1: still debating what happened at the end of the story, 482 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: or perhaps what didn't happen at the end of the story. 483 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,360 Speaker 1: A book that makes you mad is often a good 484 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: book club selection. Books that readers really do not enjoy 485 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: reading can be redeemed to a certain extent when you 486 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: bring them to book club, because you can have so 487 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: much fun talking about a book that disappointed you, that 488 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: you feel like misled, you manipulated you like it can 489 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: almost be worth reading. The story because the conversation is 490 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: so good. It's good when you can redeem something a 491 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 1: little bit the time you put into it a little bit. Yeah, 492 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: I wonder if you have any sort of discussion questions. 493 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:34,919 Speaker 1: You know, obviously people be like, well, what did you 494 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: like about the book or what did you not like 495 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 1: about the book? What are some questions that might help 496 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: get a discussion going, Oh, that's a good question. In 497 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,199 Speaker 1: my Reading Life book journal, there's actually a spread that 498 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: has ten questions that work for any book club discussion 499 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 1: that I refer to all the time, and I do 500 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: not have memorized, but I know, just some really personal 501 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: questions can be good ones that usually I use at 502 00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,679 Speaker 1: the end of the conversation, not a beginning, but like 503 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: what scene lingers with you? What character did you especially 504 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: relate to, Like what moment stuck with you? Or was 505 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: there anything about the book that just like didn't strike 506 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: you it's realistic or accurate? That can be something interesting 507 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: to talk about. What does the title mean? Can be 508 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: an interesting one. And then of course just talking about 509 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: common themes like what do you think this story had 510 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: to say about forgiveness or love or what it really 511 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: means to be a family or can you come back 512 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: from a choice like that character made? Why did that 513 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 1: character make that choice? I think as people were fascinated 514 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: by why we do the things we do, and instead 515 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: of having like a really juicy, real life gossip session, 516 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: you can have kind of the same thing with a novel, 517 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: and that can be really fun in a book club setting. 518 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: That's cool, And I'm kind of curious, like what makes 519 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 1: a book club end? I mean, I guess you could 520 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,159 Speaker 1: totally part ways over whether you wish to discuss the 521 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: syntax on page one sixty or if you're not that 522 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: kind of book club but I am. And it's often 523 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 1: more of a not a bang, but a whimper at 524 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: the end of a book club life, what tends to 525 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: be the thing that leads to it falling apart? So 526 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: we can try to think about how, if we do 527 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,120 Speaker 1: wish to keep it going, how we might avoid that. 528 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: I think in stories I've heard from readers, it's a 529 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: lack of direction from it being either unclear who's responsible 530 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,360 Speaker 1: for pulling everybody together or for nobody truly being responsible. 531 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 1: You know what I keep thinking of through this whole 532 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: conversation is Priya Parker's book The art of gathering, where 533 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: she's very explicit about saying like, meetings need a purpose, 534 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: meetings need a leader, meetings needs someone to set the tone, 535 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 1: meetings need expectations to be clear. And if those things 536 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,439 Speaker 1: are not present in gatherings, then those gatherings aren't as 537 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: satisfying as they could be, or they don't happen in 538 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 1: the first place. And that's just as true for our 539 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,439 Speaker 1: casual book club gatherings as it is for the big 540 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 1: kinds of things that we more often think of as 541 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 1: like events. But the club is an event, and it 542 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 1: takes an interested person to make it happen. But do 543 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:07,639 Speaker 1: you think it's worth doing? I mean, if we have 544 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,479 Speaker 1: listeners here who are like, you know, I'm thinking about it. 545 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: I mean, would you recommend trying to start a book 546 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,479 Speaker 1: club for best of both worlds for readers out there? 547 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: You know my answers readers, no matter what that mean. 548 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: We're already committed to doing it. But our listeners like 549 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: just want to you know, start one with friends or 550 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,640 Speaker 1: neighbors or colleagues. Oh yeah, definitely, And I think, especially now, 551 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 1: I try not to get too reactive from the news, 552 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,400 Speaker 1: but we know that we're spending more time alone, We're 553 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: spending less time with friends. These have been a hard 554 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: couple of years. Why not put something in your life? 555 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,120 Speaker 1: I mean, lord, this is such a tranquility by Tuesday strategy, 556 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 1: Like why not make a decision once and put something 557 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: in your life that brings you into contact with others 558 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,919 Speaker 1: and meaningful conversations with others and also prod you to 559 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: enjoy something that you probably know you like if you're 560 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 1: interested in the book club at all, and that is reading. 561 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 1: This feels like a big win win all the ways. 562 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,479 Speaker 1: Absolutely does sound like a win well, and we always 563 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: end with a love of the week. So something that 564 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,479 Speaker 1: is going good for us right now, I'll go ahead 565 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: and start, you know, something book related. I I've said 566 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 1: this a million times, but the Kindle App. I know 567 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: people have whatever with Amazon, but the Kindle app is 568 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: really great. Like the fact that you could read ebooks 569 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 1: on your phone instantly is just amazing, and even more 570 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: so that you can get them from Libby the library 571 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: app and go directly into Kendle and not even just books. 572 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 1: Sometimes I find myself like I would be scrolling around 573 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: online and so I was like, well, let me just 574 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: go over to Libby and see what's there, and sometimes 575 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: just wind up reading like magazines online that there's a 576 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: bunch formatted for Kindle that you can just read them, 577 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: look at the pictures, quick story or whatever, and it 578 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: just feels like a little bit better than scrolling around 579 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: randomly on Twitter. Maybe not a ton better, but slightly better. 580 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: And sometimes that's that's all we really need. So how 581 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: about you, Ann's what's good for you this week? Oh? 582 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: I was gonna say Lentsil soups. We have two new 583 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: Lentsil super recipes. We really love that we've made a lot. 584 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: I mean, you know it's a winner when your college 585 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: kid is coming home from school and you're telling your 586 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: other kids, we can't make that yet, like Jack has 587 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: to try it. But I feel like that maybe sends 588 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: the wrong like super healthy image. I try to fuel 589 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: my body well, but so I feel like I should 590 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:32,239 Speaker 1: also add that bringing me joy is the is it 591 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 1: fun size or just like jumbo size? I have an 592 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: enormous bag of peppermint patties in my desk drawer. I 593 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: don't usually buy myself candy, but it's the holidays and 594 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: they have these big bags of Yorks that I love 595 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: so much. So just a couple of times a week 596 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: I think, like, you know what, I'm in the mood 597 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: for Peppermint patty because they're my favorite, Laura. And then 598 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: I remember that I bought myself Summit Target and they're 599 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 1: in by drawer waiting for me, and it makes me 600 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: so happy, and it makes me say celebration. It makes 601 00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: my kids happy because I feel bad not sharing some 602 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: Does anybody want one of these? And they're like, oh 603 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: my gosh, who are you? What did you do with 604 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: our mother? Yes, yes I do awesome, awesome, well, pepperbut 605 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: patties and Lintel's stew is totally different, different culinary experiences, 606 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: but probably good all around. So and tell our listeners 607 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: where they can find you if they would like to 608 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: learn more about your work. My hub online is modernmissus 609 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: Darcy dot com, and you can listen to our podcast 610 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: what Should I Read Next? Wherever you're listening to Best 611 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: of Both Worlds excellent and i'd add Anne also has 612 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 1: some wonderful books as well that don't overthink it is 613 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: the most recent one? Is that right? It is? It is? 614 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: It is? And she also has a book of essays 615 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: called I'd Rather Be Reading, which you should check out 616 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 1: as well, and thank you so much for joining us. 617 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. It's my pleasure. Thank you for 618 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,719 Speaker 1: having me. Well, that was awesome. I always love talking 619 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: to and she has so many great ideas and her 620 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: command of all the books in the universe is is 621 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: pretty overwhelmingly amazing. So if you haven't already, please check 622 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,959 Speaker 1: out What Should I Read next? The podcast and Modern 623 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: missus Darcy online. So, Sarah, you want to read our 624 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: question for the week? Yes, So this comes from one 625 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: of our listeners, and she writes, I'm working on my 626 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 1: personal goals for twenty twenty three, but the caveat for 627 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: my goals is that we might have a baby in 628 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: the next year, and if my timing works out, I'd 629 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: be pregnant for most of twenty twenty three. With that 630 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: in mind, I feel like I'm making two sets of goals, 631 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: one for pregnancy and one for not. For example, run 632 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: a ten k is on my list for no baby, 633 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: but do pregnancy yoga is on the baby list. And 634 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: how do I make career goals? Am I being too 635 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: analytical looking at a one year timeline? Be social with 636 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: colleagues and go to pubs versus don't vomit in my 637 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 1: open plan office are similar but different goals here? How 638 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: do you treat goals and plans when you're looking at 639 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: years with probable babies. I know a baby might not 640 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: happen this year, but I'm struggling to get both excited 641 00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: for pushing my fitness and professional life forward versus pushing 642 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: my family life board. Not in the big picture of 643 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 1: work versus family, but in the little picture of actually 644 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 1: being pregnant can be hard for a few months, and 645 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 1: so is having a newborn and a year it's only 646 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: made up of twelve months. All true statements. I don't know. 647 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: I guess it sounds like she's making a good stab 648 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: at it already that she has two lists of goals. 649 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: I mean, one is life not pregnant, the other is 650 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 1: life if she does, in fact get pregnant this year, 651 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: I would say that, you know, the since she has 652 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: already had a baby. Writing this in it sounds like 653 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: the odds are pretty good that if they're trying for 654 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: the course of the year, it probably will happen in 655 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: the course of the year. But of course nothing is 656 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 1: ever guaranteed, So yeah, making two sets of goals could 657 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: be awesome or You could also just make a goals 658 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 1: list and understand that you'll modify some of them if 659 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: they don't work out, but they might still. I mean, 660 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: there's no reason you couldn't have a big professional goal. 661 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: Even if you know you got pregnant tomorrow and we're 662 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: going to be out for the last three months of 663 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: the year on maternity leave or something like that, that 664 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: doesn't mean you couldn't achieve it. So I think you 665 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 1: want to be careful that you're not stopping yourself from 666 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: going for things that you want to go for, even 667 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: if there is a potential pregnancy involved. We never know 668 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: how life is going to go anyway. I mean, I 669 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: know we set tons of goals for twenty twenty that 670 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,239 Speaker 1: then the pandemic totally undermined. It doesn't mean that you 671 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: can't set goals or that it's a pointless exercise or 672 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: anything like that. And we can never consider all the contingencies. 673 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: So I'd say, go ahead, figure out what you want 674 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: life to look like if a baby happens this year 675 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: as a big goal, what are some other things you'd 676 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 1: like to do or things you might possibly want to change, 677 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: and just sort of be accepting of that, yeah, or 678 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: maybe do some sort of like gentle color coding of 679 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: your list, Like, you know, the ones that are have 680 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: highlighted in light green are ones that I will maybe 681 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: table if pregnancy is going to become an issue. I 682 00:33:54,560 --> 00:34:00,040 Speaker 1: will say I found the post baby years, like the 683 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: my baby is zero to twelve months to be a 684 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 1: little bit more disruptive of my life than the pregnancy years. 685 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: Now that's me. Everybody is different. I didn't have particularly 686 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: horrible pregnancies. I mean, the first trimester kind of sucked, 687 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,360 Speaker 1: but after that I could run that ten k or 688 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,400 Speaker 1: you know, do whatever I needed to do. And it 689 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,919 Speaker 1: was actually the first baby year when I wasn't getting 690 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: much sleep that I felt like I really had to 691 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: just be easy on myself. But I think going ahead 692 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: and making the goals knowing that you don't know the 693 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: timeline of when the baby's going to happen and so 694 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: many things might be applicable anyway. Or maybe you can 695 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 1: also just be gentle with the time frame, so maybe 696 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: they don't have to be goals for the year, but 697 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 1: goals for the year or next couple of years if 698 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 1: it feels like next year's you know, going to be 699 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,400 Speaker 1: a really busy one. Or if you end up with 700 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,840 Speaker 1: a really tough pregnancy. Yeah, exactly. Although I've had the 701 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: experience in my life of you know, set really ambitious 702 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 1: running goals on like for January and then the pregnancy 703 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 1: test was positive on like January tenth. It was just, 704 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 1: you know, these things happen, and that's actually an interesting phenomenon, 705 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 1: you know, when you are in the active baby making 706 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: years of like what your time frame is for long 707 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: term goals and your willingness to sort of commit to that. 708 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,719 Speaker 1: You know, there's there's an interesting thing to explore with that. 709 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: And I know I was always thinking about you know, 710 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,440 Speaker 1: like when books were coming out, or like committing to 711 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 1: speeches that were more than a few months ahead of time. 712 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: You know, what would be the timing with that. So yeah, 713 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,839 Speaker 1: it's something that does change how you might actually think 714 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 1: about life, especially if you wind up having five children. 715 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: So it's not a one off what experience, experience experience exactly. 716 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 1: All right, Well, this has been best of both worlds. 717 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,240 Speaker 1: I interviewed and Bogel, known online as modern Missus Darcy, 718 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,919 Speaker 1: about how to have the most excellent book club ever. 719 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 1: We will be back next week with more on making 720 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 1: work in life. Fit together. Thanks for listening. You can 721 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 1: find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at 722 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,759 Speaker 1: the Underscore shoe Box on Instagram, and you can find 723 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 1: me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been 724 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,359 Speaker 1: the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us next 725 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: time for more on making work and life work together.