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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noah.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Paul, Mission Control decand most importantly, you are here.

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Speaker 3: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 3: We've explored the concept of secret space programs in depth,

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Speaker 3: especially of Late. It's been an ongoing bad romance you

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Speaker 3: could say, between NASA and Darva and your fellow conspiracy

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Speaker 3: realis so yeah, oh it's perfect, perfect. Before we before

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Speaker 3: we dive into this, do you guys want to give

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Speaker 3: a quick recap of our ventures of late. I believe

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Speaker 3: this is the first time the three of us are

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Speaker 3: recording in Atlanta again.

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Speaker 4: I was about to say state side, but that's not

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Speaker 4: exactly right, but yeah, atl Side. Now, we had a

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Speaker 4: lovely little road trip together. We all went to Los

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Speaker 4: Angeles to do a cool podcast evolution conference panel on

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Speaker 4: how to talk about heavy stuff without being too much

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Speaker 4: of a bummer. The Er and the Heavy you might

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Speaker 4: be able to hear that very panel here one of

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Speaker 4: these days in the not two distant future. But we

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Speaker 4: also hung out with a friend of the show, Kevin

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Speaker 4: and some of his lovely friends from LA and did

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Speaker 4: music trivia at this place called Permanent Records, and hung

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Speaker 4: out with some of our LA folks, Miles and Jack

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Speaker 4: and the whole gang.

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Speaker 5: It was really great. We got a great LA crew

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Speaker 5: out there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was an amazing time. But we

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Speaker 2: are back now and we are headed to space.

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Speaker 5: Space space.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, hats off to longtime conspiracy realist. You already know

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Speaker 3: part of our motivation with secrets of space in the

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Speaker 3: Outer Dark if you've tuned into some of our recent collaborations,

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Speaker 3: most notably a particular episode of The Passage, an excellent

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Speaker 3: an excellent fiction series. Well one episode is not fiction.

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Speaker 3: Hoover episode is one hundred percent real. All of these

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Speaker 3: are ep by our own mister Matt Frederick. Tonight, we're

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Speaker 3: exploring a troubling allegation of conspiracy that is somewhat of

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Speaker 3: a culmination of numerous previous rumors. This case differs in

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Speaker 3: one notable respect. It appears at least some of the

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Speaker 3: allegations may hold water or you know, aliens off mic.

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Speaker 3: We were off air, we were talking a little bit about

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Speaker 3: some of the stuff that troubles us here. And you know, guys,

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Speaker 3: we never did an episode about our one of our

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Speaker 3: protagonists in this story. Our tale begins with one man,

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Speaker 3: a Scottish national named Gary, and Gary, when our story begins,

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Speaker 3: is troubled by some rumors he's heard online. Here are

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Speaker 3: the facts.

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Speaker 5: That's right.

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Speaker 4: In March of two thousand and two, the year of

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Speaker 4: our Lord, Scottish United Kingdom national, Gary McKinnon was arrested

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Speaker 4: at his apartment or a flat as they call it

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Speaker 4: in London, accused under suspicion of successfully hacking into secret

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Speaker 4: and highly classified sensitive US military computers from February two

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Speaker 4: thousand and one to March of two thousand and two.

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Speaker 4: He was twenty two years old at the time.

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Speaker 2: Kind of a sensitive time to be hacking into government computers, right.

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Speaker 4: When you had first you had Y two K and

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Speaker 4: then of course now we're right in the thick of

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Speaker 4: Post nine to eleven paranoia and anxiety.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a it's a strange milieu. It'say bad romance

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Speaker 3: of state survey. The last time I'll say it of

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Speaker 3: state surveillance and lackluster cybersecurity, but also an intense need

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Speaker 3: to make an example of people.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, yeah, exactly because Gary McKinnon is not the

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Speaker 2: only person who was interested in trying to find you know,

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Speaker 2: secret stuff online at that time. I mean, guys, you

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Speaker 2: probably have memories. I remember as a kid learning some

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Speaker 2: of the tricks I would say of getting into servers

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Speaker 2: that maybe you're not supposed to.

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Speaker 3: The password is password.

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Speaker 4: We all had our own personal back doors at one

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Speaker 4: time or another into military intelligence systems.

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Speaker 2: Am I right, No, that's not what I mean. But

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Speaker 2: using computers to access stuff that you wouldn't be able

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Speaker 2: to access unless you had a computer and you knew

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Speaker 2: how to use it, right.

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Speaker 3: And he's an early adopter, as Gary, because he gets

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Speaker 3: his first computer around fourteen years old, so he grows

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Speaker 3: up with this as as the ted talkie folks would say,

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Speaker 3: he is native to this environment. And you know, when

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Speaker 3: they first arrest him, he's held in I think Brixton

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Speaker 3: for about six to seven hours, so like drunk tank rules.

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Speaker 3: And while he's held they take his computers, his personal ones,

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Speaker 3: and they also take the He had a side business

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Speaker 3: repairing people's computers. So they take any basically any computer

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Speaker 3: he touches, and then they release him back into the wild.

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Speaker 3: But the case wends on. Uncle Sam is very mad

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Speaker 3: about this because they kind of he kind of David v.

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Speaker 3: Goliath them, if we're being honest, and he and so

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Speaker 3: it comes to pass that Scotland yard in June or

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Speaker 3: July two thousand and five, they scoop him up and again,

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Speaker 3: and this is when things get serious. The Dojus Department

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Speaker 3: of Justice indicts him on eight separate accounts of computer

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Speaker 3: or eight separate counts I should say, of computer related crimes.

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Speaker 3: And at first they say, hey, man, you did over

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Speaker 3: five hundred and sixty six thousand US dollars worth of

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Speaker 3: damage to not just our hardware, but to our network,

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Speaker 3: to the function of US security. And then they come

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Speaker 3: back and they say it was actually over seven hundred thousand,

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Speaker 3: then eight hundred thousand, then nine hundred thousand.

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Speaker 2: Man, it's like this guy was copy in movies or

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Speaker 2: something LimeWire.

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Speaker 3: You wouldn't download UFO, would you?

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Speaker 5: I would?

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Speaker 3: If I could, I would one hundred percent download a

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Speaker 3: uf I don't.

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Speaker 5: Think you can.

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Speaker 4: Did you guys ever get one of those season desist

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Speaker 4: letters from like HBO.

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Speaker 5: Okay, maybe don't want to Oh, no, fair enough.

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Speaker 4: Well, I certainly did back in the heyday, which was

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Speaker 4: literally around this time. It was the golden age of

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Speaker 4: peer to peer sharing, and.

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Speaker 3: You were LimeWire.

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Speaker 5: I was LimeWire.

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Speaker 4: I did all of the very kazah various ones. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I was an early napster user back when it was

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Speaker 4: like the bane of record labels.

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Speaker 5: But that was a long time ago.

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Speaker 4: Can't come at me now, statute of limitations, just surely.

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Speaker 4: But Ben, I was wondering when they released him. I

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Speaker 4: know this is sort of a thing that intelligence and

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Speaker 4: you know, law enforcement officials will do. Was it a

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Speaker 4: catch and release situation where they were like monitoring what

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Speaker 4: he would do after? I'm just wondering, or is that

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Speaker 4: not necessarily the case.

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Speaker 3: That's a great question, and I cannot speak with authority here,

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Speaker 3: But based on spidy sense, let's say yes, okay, let's

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Speaker 3: actually based on Spidey sense. While we cannot officially confirm that,

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Speaker 3: let's say one absolutely, you do the same thing.

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Speaker 4: Well, it seems like smart thing to do if you

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Speaker 4: don't have enough to keep them on, or at least

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Speaker 4: you have enough to grab their stuff, then that probably

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Speaker 4: is best.

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Speaker 5: For your case if you just keep an eye on

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Speaker 5: them out in the wild.

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Speaker 3: And Matt's right about the shadow of nine to eleven

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Speaker 3: looming large there.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh dude, with all the laws that were

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Speaker 2: being written towards the end of the time that he

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Speaker 2: was performing these activities, right, I mean they are at

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Speaker 2: that time being written right within the confines of the

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Speaker 2: White House and all of the attorneys at work around

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Speaker 2: that structure, I guess. But the other thing is, I'm

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Speaker 2: imagining the interrogation room, right. This is like having an

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Speaker 2: interrogation room across an ocean where somebody on one side

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Speaker 2: is saying, hey, this is what we have on you,

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Speaker 2: and the person on the other side sweating. I guess

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Speaker 2: what did they say they had.

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Speaker 3: On him, Well, what they said they had on him

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Speaker 3: in the UK was suspicion of illicit activities that may

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Speaker 3: have This is where it gets money, because the concern

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Speaker 3: was he may have compromised British nationals in the in

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Speaker 3: the beginning, or he may have compromised British government networks,

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Speaker 3: which would be kind of more important, honestly, more important

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Speaker 3: to the UK than the compromise of a foreign nation.

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Speaker 3: Five eyes aside, but shout out to you guys, thanks

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Speaker 3: for tuning in the idea. Then is immediately to find

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Speaker 3: out what they can get him on.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 3: If you if you look at his own origin story,

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Speaker 3: he is Gary himself is pretty transparent. He says, you know,

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Speaker 3: I was arrested in March two thousand and two for

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Speaker 3: hacking into networks domains like dot gov, dot mil and

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Speaker 3: the way he breaks it down and Gary, if you're listening,

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Speaker 3: this is brilliant and brilliant. People are always humble. This

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Speaker 3: is brilliant because he says, look, I do CIS admin

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Speaker 3: systems administration. I wasn't doing some crazy sci fi hacking.

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Speaker 3: I was basically cracking things with very lazy solutions. So

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Speaker 3: when the British release him, I do think it is,

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Speaker 3: to your point, NOL, a catch and release kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: We've taken this guy's toys, right, we've taken his access.

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Speaker 3: Let's see what else he can do when we put

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Speaker 3: him in the wind right. And the problem is that

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Speaker 3: the Department of Justice doesn't like it because they got touched.

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean. They're a goliath who yet

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Speaker 3: again got davided. So they want to make an example.

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Speaker 3: And they're doing this by the way, you know, history

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Speaker 3: will approve. They make examples of other countries, right, they

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Speaker 3: make examples of terrorist organizations, even if those are not

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Speaker 3: necessarily involved in the events of September eleventh. So the

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Speaker 3: Department of Justice says, we demand that the Kingdom extradites

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Speaker 3: Gary McKinnon. He must face trial in the United States.

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Speaker 3: We have him dead to rights. Originally they said he

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Speaker 3: hacked something like ninety seven different military and NASA computers

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Speaker 3: over the course of that year. You described Noel. The

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Speaker 3: number would later go up to two hundred, and he

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Speaker 3: had a he had a bit of the theatrical about him.

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Speaker 3: He was using a handle, a pseudonym Solo, and he

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Speaker 3: was Gary McKinnon is again a very very intelligent person.

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Speaker 3: He was smart enough not to do this at his

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Speaker 3: own apartment or flat. He was operating out of his

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Speaker 3: girlfriend's aunts house. But that that didn't help, and Uncle

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Speaker 3: Sam had a lot of beef. They said, you shut

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Speaker 3: down a network of two thousand computers, mission critical infrastructure

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Speaker 3: for the US, the world's most dangerous military. You shut

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Speaker 3: it down for like more than twenty four hours, and

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Speaker 3: and you had to swing your around a little bit,

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Speaker 3: because if we go on these websites at least at

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Speaker 3: least once, I think multiple times, he a solo would

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Speaker 3: post quote your security as crap. That's funny, oh, classically classic.

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Speaker 4: It's also the kind of stuff that if he were

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Speaker 4: in the employ of said agency would be welcome.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: They hire like hackers or people like Gary to look

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Speaker 4: for holes in their security.

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Speaker 5: But in this case it's just a troll.

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Speaker 4: He's kind of thumbing his nose, you know, Adam poking

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Speaker 4: the eye of the bear, which does not necessarily bode

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Speaker 4: well for his you know, continued anonymity and freedom.

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Speaker 2: It carries defense. They had over thirty years to develop

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Speaker 2: better you know security for their systems since arpagraded their

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Speaker 2: net right.

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Speaker 3: Foreshadow in DARPA. Yeah, yeahah, yeah, you're absolutely right, Matt.

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Speaker 3: And they also had more than three decades to change

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Speaker 3: passwords from you know password, but they did not, and

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Speaker 3: McKinnon leveraged that. McKinnon, by the way, he has been

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Speaker 3: diagnosed with asbergers, and he was missing some of the

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Speaker 3: key elements that authorities like when they want to prosecute

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Speaker 3: these sorts of exploits. He was not a terrorist, had

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Speaker 3: no strong extremist ideology, there was no ransomware involved, no

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Speaker 3: financial gain. He was solely seeking knowledge about UFOs or

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Speaker 3: what we call UAP now in the West. And for that,

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Speaker 3: and he feels like found something, by the way, but

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Speaker 3: for that, the DOJ wanted him in a United States

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Speaker 3: jail in the US penal system for sixty years. Again,

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Speaker 3: he's twenty two at this time, which means he would

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Speaker 3: be eighty two when he's released if he got sixty,

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Speaker 3: and they were pushing for seventy just by the way,

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Speaker 3: so that would be ninety two. Yeah, in the US

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Speaker 3: penal system, shout out Jason Flaub, this is functionally a

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Speaker 3: death sentence.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. But then they were like, ah, guys, we cut

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Speaker 2: ourselves a nerd, a really interesting nerd. And I was Matthew,

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Speaker 2: what do you do?

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Speaker 3: At that point, well, he did say he did come clean.

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Speaker 3: He said, look, I I left that. You know, I

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Speaker 3: left a little graffiti on one computer. Your security is crap.

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Speaker 3: And then in classic McKinnon, he also said, you know,

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Speaker 3: because your security was crap, but I didn't destroy anything.

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Speaker 3: I It's like I just got into the museum after dark.

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Speaker 3: I looked around. I found some stuff that was not

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Speaker 3: on display for the public, and this tale. I think

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Speaker 3: it's a fascinating parable for state power, secrecy, cybersecurity, and conspiracy.

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Speaker 3: But for tonight's purpose, our main question hinges on motivation.

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Speaker 3: We know what the US government says McKinnon did, but

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Speaker 3: why did he do it? Maybe we talk a little

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Speaker 3: bit about his motivation.

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Speaker 4: Here, Sure, I mean McKinnon was and remains quite convinced

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Speaker 4: that certain world governments, the US included really in particular,

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Speaker 4: actively suppress technology, a thing we talk about all the time,

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Speaker 4: especially as it pertains to the potential explanation of UAP sightings.

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Speaker 4: You know, we often come back around to the old

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Speaker 4: chestnut of it's likely some kind of craft that is

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Speaker 4: classified and was being tested and essentially was caught in

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Speaker 4: the midst of a test. Certainly not the only explanation

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Speaker 4: for things like that, but definitely a pretty good one. However,

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Speaker 4: the types of technology and information that he believes are

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Speaker 4: suppressed are gonna be a little bit, maybe more of

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Speaker 4: a head scratcher than what I just described. Some more

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Speaker 4: skeptical discerning listeners might scoff. Perhaps he believes governments have

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Speaker 4: things like, you know, kind of more sci fi future tech,

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Speaker 4: things that we really don't have any evidence of there

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Speaker 4: being the ability to create at this point in time,

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Speaker 4: just based on the technology that we do know about,

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Speaker 4: things like anti gravity devices, much more you know out

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Speaker 4: there UFO related technologies, things like free energy, another version

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Speaker 4: of that zero point energy, And in many of his

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Speaker 4: public statements he has declared this to be morally repugnant,

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Speaker 4: given that some of these technologies might actually be helpful

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Speaker 4: in you know, things we talk about all the time,

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Speaker 4: like why are they suppressing things that could actually be

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Speaker 4: of use to civilization at large? Isn't that a little

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Speaker 4: bit short sighted, perhaps a little selfish of Uncle Sam

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Speaker 4: share with the class, including problems like poverty why yeah,

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Speaker 4: inequality to social and economic and of course a big

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Speaker 4: one that I think will probably be a huge source

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Speaker 4: of any potential future conflicts, things like resources starvation, you know,

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Speaker 4: the biggies all that.

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Speaker 2: For yeah, But the reasoning behind it is that some

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Speaker 2: of the other kids in the class want to murder

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Speaker 2: the other kids in the class, right, including the ones

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Speaker 2: who developed the technology. So like, I don't know, and

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Speaker 2: it really stinks, but I see the reasoning there for

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Speaker 2: mcinnay at.

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Speaker 3: Least, Yeah, the idea there being technologies that could improve

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Speaker 3: life for the common for the common good for everybody living,

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Speaker 3: but in doing so they would actually be disruptors to

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Speaker 3: civilization as it stands.

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Speaker 2: So like clean potentially weaponized right.

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Speaker 3: Right again, like clean potable water could all that same

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Speaker 3: technology could be dual use, it could be weaponized, right

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Speaker 3: And this is stuff that is at the heart of

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Speaker 3: Gary McKinnon's motivation. His search is not motivated in any

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Speaker 3: way by making money. He doesn't want to publish a book,

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Speaker 3: he doesn't want to, you know, hold a seminar. He's

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Speaker 3: not trying to steal patents or whatever. He's not trying

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Speaker 3: to fight for again some sort of extremist ideology. He

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Speaker 3: is going back to things like the Disclosure Project. He's

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Speaker 3: thinking in particular of former governmental employees, some academics government

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Speaker 3: employees like Donna Hare who worked for NASA and alleged

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Speaker 3: that NASA held hard evidence of UFO or UAP. In short,

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Speaker 3: Gary McKinnon believed and believes the truth is out there,

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Speaker 3: it's hidden and the public deserves to know. And with that,

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Speaker 3: maybe we pause for I was going to say a

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Speaker 3: moment of silence. It's not going to be a moment

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Speaker 3: of silence, folks, We're going to pause for some ads,

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Speaker 3: and then we're going to get to the heart of this.

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Speaker 3: What did he claim he actually found, and we've returned

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Speaker 3: it was a spreadsheet basically, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And.

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Speaker 3: Several photographs, photographs that, in the interest of transparency, none

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Speaker 3: of us have viewed unedited or in the I haven't

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Speaker 3: seen it. I haven't seen it in the form that

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Speaker 3: he describes.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, he basically found what all of the hackers

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Speaker 2: find nowadays when they get a hold of giant databases

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Speaker 2: that you know, an ISP keeps on somebody or a

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Speaker 2: credit card company, right, a spreadsheet, Well we all know this, right,

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Speaker 2: in an Excel spreadsheet. We've seen these things where there's

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Speaker 2: a name, right, a date perhaps, and then other information.

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Speaker 2: We don't know exactly what other information on individuals was

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Speaker 2: found within that spreadsheet, but it was about something weird.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, yeah, I like that comparison to credit card records.

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Speaker 3: He found metadata essentially, So he saw these names and

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Speaker 3: information and a couple of phrases stuck out to him.

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Speaker 3: One was non terrestrial officers and then transfers between different

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Speaker 3: fleets for these officers. He then cross references these names

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Speaker 3: with a database of all the publicly available US Navy

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Speaker 3: and military personnel, and surprise, surprise, he's not able to

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Speaker 3: find the names of these non terrestrial officers. So this

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Speaker 3: is this is umami, right, this is really tasty conspiracy. Umammy, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: yum yum indeed, and he says, look, I've found something

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Speaker 3: far beyond the sadly mundane skullduggery of corruption and coup

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Speaker 3: and cover up. He says, I've found information about the

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Speaker 3: development of a secret outer space fleet. Furthermore, I've found

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Speaker 3: and in it that there is an inexhaustible source of

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Speaker 3: power to your point in all about zero point or

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Speaker 3: free energy, it exists. That's what powers these ships. And

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Speaker 3: then he says, I've seen the photographs that Hair was

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Speaker 3: talking about. I have seen photographs of UFOs in the

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Speaker 3: files at the Johnson Space Center building. I took a

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Speaker 3: screenshot of one, and it's a cigar shaped UAP in

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Speaker 3: between outer space and Earth's atmosphere. And he also said

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Speaker 3: he found evidence of a secret program called solar Warden.

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Speaker 3: This is the rabbit.

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Speaker 2: Hole, oh definitely, But it didn't his his fifty six

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Speaker 2: K modem messed up while he was like capturing that

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Speaker 2: screen shot.

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Speaker 3: Isn't that what he was saying anything? And maybe Bigfoot's

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Speaker 3: just blurry?

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Speaker 2: You know, well, well, but what I mean. Look, according

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Speaker 2: to Gary McKinnon, he was on a dial up modem.

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Speaker 2: He was downloading an image, basically taking a screenshot, and

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Speaker 2: it messed up or didn't finish completely. But again, this

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Speaker 2: photograph is from a satellite's point of view. Imagine like

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Speaker 2: way above the Earth looking down at the Earth and

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Speaker 2: sees this cigar shape thing. But he described it weirdly right.

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Speaker 2: There was also geodesic spheres on either end of the

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Speaker 2: cigar shape which.

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Speaker 5: Did not connected or as part of part of the body.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. That's how he's described it to Wired

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Speaker 2: in other places when he was first talking about it.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, guys, my mind immediately goes to the like,

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Speaker 4: you know, there's there's a whole kind of school of

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Speaker 4: art called glitch art where you can remove pixels or essentially,

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Speaker 4: I guess, simulate a low quality data transmission, and a

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Speaker 4: lot of that ends up with the result of smeared

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Speaker 4: pixels or things that kind of are stretched or weirdly shaped,

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Speaker 4: you know, of an image, I do tend to wonder

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Speaker 4: if that fifty six K modem glitch may be caused

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Speaker 4: a visual anomaly.

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Speaker 5: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: You mentioned already at the top end, and we mentioned

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Speaker 4: the top the idea of some of these claims being

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Speaker 4: something that might be approached with a little skepticism, and

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Speaker 4: I think that's where I'm starting. But this is also

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Speaker 4: a new story to me, so I'm going to keep

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Speaker 4: an open mind.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is where the rabbit hole begins. We

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Speaker 3: can go in depth on Gary McKinnon, indeed hopefully speak

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Speaker 3: with him in a later installment of stuff they don't

389
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Speaker 3: want you to know, but for now, for our purposes, tonight,

390
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 3: fellow conspiracy realist, what is Operation Solar Warden? Here's where

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00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 3: it gets crazy to the true believers. It is a

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Speaker 3: secret space program leveraging suppressed technology of unknown providence that

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Speaker 3: has been operating in secret since nineteen eighty and Gary

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Speaker 3: McKennon comes with facts in multiple interviews.

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Speaker 5: Matt.

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Speaker 3: You cited one of the ones you sided, the Wired

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Speaker 3: interview that he did a while back twosand and six,

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Speaker 3: two thousand and six. So in that one he says

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Speaker 3: the US Naval Network and Space Operations Command or Mumsok

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Speaker 3: is the ultimate head of solar Warden, and he comes

401
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Speaker 3: with he comes with some specifics that he derives in

402
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Speaker 3: this hack. He says, they're about three hundred specifically US

403
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Speaker 3: Army personnel, which I take to mean, given that he's

404
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Speaker 3: a Scottish national, I take that to mean US military

405
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Speaker 3: in general.

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00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably doesn't know all right.

407
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Speaker 3: The differences in the branches. And then he says, there

408
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 3: are eight enormous like cartoonish cigar sized craft or cigar

409
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Speaker 3: shaped craft, and each of these are about the length

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Speaker 3: of two football fields, and each of these are capable

411
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Speaker 3: of all that Paul beat me here, all that amazing

412
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 3: we hear about in UFO lore turning on a dime,

413
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Speaker 3: disappearing transmedium actions like from the see to the orbit.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is another really weird thing that he notes. Uh.

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Speaker 2: He says on these objects, quote, there were no visible

417
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Speaker 2: seams or riveting, which is interesting, right, if it's a

418
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Speaker 2: man made craft, you've got a bolt together pieces of metal.

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Speaker 2: At least those are the ones we know about.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 2: Even on the most advanced aircraft or jets, there are

422
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Speaker 2: seams between pieces, like if you imagine some of these

423
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 2: more advanced aircraft that their wings change. Right, we've probably

424
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 2: seen these in movies or we've seen images of them.

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00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 2: You can see the seams, but this thing is just.

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Speaker 5: You mean like they fold up, Yes, this position, I.

427
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 2: Say so, Yeah, a lot of the aircraft actually changed

428
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Speaker 2: position in how their wings look. But he's not seeing

429
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Speaker 2: any of that stuff on these craft, which to me

430
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Speaker 2: is I don't know that it doesn't mean anything. Besides,

431
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Speaker 2: I guess when we think about UAP sightings now, it's

432
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Speaker 2: leading me down towards you know, the twenty twenties of

433
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Speaker 2: sightings rather than the early two thousands.

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Speaker 3: Right, exactly. That's a really great point because even now

435
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 3: all acknowledged terrestrial made craft do have seams, like the

436
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 3: even the high feluding stealth craft that were initially confused

437
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 3: with alien technology and a confusion that the US government

438
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,360
Speaker 3: was glad to embrace. By the way, even even that stuff,

439
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 3: if you look at it, it does have seams. Right.

440
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 3: They build and sculpt the metal and wield it, weld

441
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 3: it together. But he said, this is way more t

442
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 3: one thousand.

443
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 2: Yes, that's exactly the image ben some kind of alloy

444
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 2: er metal that is moldable in that way that doesn't

445
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 2: require it to be assembled in separate.

446
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 4: Pieces, like actively mouldable, like able to change state.

447
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 3: Right like in the This is a shout out to

448
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 3: conspiracy realist of a certain age, but like the spacecraft

449
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 3: in the Flight of the Navigator.

450
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:01,239
Speaker 4: Absolutely, or the creature in the Abyss, which is I

451
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 4: believe the first James Cameron movie to really use that

452
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 4: T one thousand liquid metal thing that was made of water.

453
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,479
Speaker 3: But right, I rewatched the Abyss that was held up

454
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 3: he does, Yeah, I'd like to see it as well.

455
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 3: Have you guys seen Flight of the Navigator.

456
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 4: I know it was a big Disney kid in space movie, Like,

457
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 4: isn't that right?

458
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 5: Like the Adventure in the in the Stars.

459
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 3: Yes, and in there they have a craft that is

460
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 3: capable of the same sort of thing that McKinnon is describing. However,

461
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 3: to be very clear, McKinnon does not claim that he

462
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 3: has seen this in person. He's saying he did a hack,

463
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 3: he found evidence of this, and he also says, look,

464
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 3: it's not just these eight enormous double football field spacecraft.

465
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 3: There is a much larger number of smaller what he

466
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 3: calls scoutcraft, and they can do even they can reach

467
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 3: even further heights of maneuverability and violation of physics as

468
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 3: humans understand it. He says he found records of forty

469
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 3: three of these smaller scout ships, and if you think

470
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 3: of the way that the US and conventional naval forces

471
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 3: at least deploy deploy carrier groups, that it makes sense

472
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 3: that you need ancillery craft for the big boys, right

473
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 3: for the carriers and so on. He also says he

474
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 3: finds two names. It's implied that two of the two

475
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 3: names he finds are the names for two of the

476
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:48,479
Speaker 3: big boys, the USS way for it s LeMay and

477
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 3: the USS way for it S hillin Kotre. You know,

478
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 3: people know that US Navy ships usually only have two

479
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 3: s's Gary saw three. Maybe that stands for United States

480
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 3: Spaceship unproven.

481
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 2: I mean it could, it legitimately could. In twenty twenty,

482
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 2: we got the Space Force, and there's all kinds of

483
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 2: weird stuff happening with them right right now in the news.

484
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 2: I'm sure we'll talk about a little bit, but usss SA.

485
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 3: Nobody will figure it out right, So in general, we

486
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 3: have to be honest folks. Often you can see claims

487
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 3: like this in any number of forums and conventions. You

488
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 3: can talk to people who say, Hey, I'm convinced I

489
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 3: have found something like this already. We see that McKinnon's

490
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 3: case differs in one serious respect. The United States government

491
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 3: was willing to cross the pond to get this guy

492
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 3: and put him in prison for the rest of his life.

493
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,959
Speaker 3: And when the US won, they don't choose to do that.

494
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 3: Lightly like spoiler, if you want a pirate, If you

495
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 3: want a pirate a copy the cinematic masterpiece vibes, the

496
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 3: DOJ is not going to come for you. I think

497
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 3: I hope that comment ages well as we continue into

498
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 3: the future. But there's a second respect in which this

499
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 3: is different. In twenty ten, independent journalist investigator UFO researcher

500
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 3: named Darren Perks did something that we're quite fortunate to

501
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 3: be able to do in the United States. He filed

502
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 3: a Freedom of Information Act requests, commonly called a FOYA

503
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 3: in these part in these parts of the Global Woods FOYA.

504
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 3: The argument of the FOYA is, if you are paying taxes,

505
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 3: you should have a right to request from the US

506
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 3: government what they're doing with all that money that everybody

507
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 3: asked to pay. And Perks found some weird, some weird

508
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 3: sand that appeared to if not one to one corroborate

509
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 3: the claims that Gary McKinnon, it appeared to further differentiate

510
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 3: them from the usual disinformation and scuttle butt of UFO lore.

511
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,239
Speaker 4: And just a quick aside before we get into it,

512
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 4: the response time and let's just say customer service of

513
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 4: the Freedom of Information Act request wasn't great.

514
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 5: Left something to be desired.

515
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, he reached out to the Department of Defense d D. Right,

516
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 2: I'm going to read part of this, guys. I think

517
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 2: this is fantastic.

518
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 3: And this is from a Huffington Post article or blog

519
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 3: written by Perks in twenty twelve.

520
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we have to you know, we have to

521
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 2: believe Perks that this is actually what he's what he received,

522
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 2: because there was no screenshot of this email. Right, but

523
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 2: this is an email from the DoD.

524
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 5: Quote.

525
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 2: About an hour ago, I spoke to a NASA rep

526
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 2: who confirmed this was their program and that it was

527
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 2: terminated by the president. He also informed me that it

528
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 2: was not a joint program with the DoD. The NASA

529
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 2: rep informed me that you should be directed to the

530
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 2: Johnson Space Center FOIA manager. I have ran your request

531
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 2: through one of our space related directories and I'm waiting

532
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 2: on one other division with the command to respond back

533
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 2: to me. I will contact you once I have a

534
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 2: response from the other division. And then it ends with

535
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 2: did NASA refer you to us?

536
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 3: So?

537
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 5: Yeah?

538
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 3: Right, like so yeah, the comparison is something that will

539
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 3: be unfortunately unfortunately identifiable and understandable to all of us

540
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 3: listening along tonight. Have you ever called a big company

541
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 3: with a lot of departments and they say, who are

542
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 3: you trying to reach? Let me get you over to that.

543
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 3: You get over to them and they're like, oh, who

544
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 3: are you trying to reach? Blah blah blah. So this

545
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 3: is this purposeful obtuseness or is this just a hazard

546
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 3: of bureaucracy? I would argue the latter, to be quite

547
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 3: honest with you.

548
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 2: But yeah, but in the end, DoD at least if

549
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 2: this email is real, said yeah, that's a real thing

550
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 2: and it's NASAs, so like leave us alone.

551
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 3: Right, Well, that's I mean? Is that what you would say? Like? Yeah, sure,

552
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 3: I don't know if I call them.

553
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 5: So the.

554
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 3: Perks concludes from this again, and this is in twenty twelve,

555
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 3: says Solar Wharton In Perks's research is allegedly made up

556
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 3: of black project contractors Skunkworks basically in the US, and

557
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 3: Skunkworks are very real and continue today, and says that

558
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 3: there are some parts and components and software that are

559
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 3: contributed by Canada, the UK, Italy, Austria, Russia that parted

560
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 3: in age well and Australia. And then also Perks says,

561
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 3: quote it is said that the program solar Warden is

562
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 3: tested and operated from secret military bases such as Area

563
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:19,280
Speaker 3: fifty one in Nevada. Be careful always with the passive voice, folks,

564
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 3: it is said, avoids naming the speaker.

565
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:24,760
Speaker 5: Yeah.

566
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 2: Well, and the writer who wrote that, Darren Perks, is

567
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 2: citing Gary McKinnon in all of that stuff, like saying,

568
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 2: this is information that comes from Gary McKinnon and what

569
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 2: he found when he did his hack.

570
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 3: Right, So it verges on tautological, right, tautology, But the

571
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 3: narrative divides, you know, in the pursuit of information again,

572
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 3: Perks finds himself referred to various government bodies. And if

573
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,879
Speaker 3: any of this is, if any of this holds up,

574
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 3: then these allegations are stunning, world shaking, as the Internet

575
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 3: used to say back in the early two thousands. Big.

576
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 3: If true, this means that the us would one have

577
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 3: knowledge of suppressed technology, whatever the origin of providence, and

578
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 3: then two somehow successfully restricted this knowledge from the public,

579
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 3: didn't let its enemies know, even though some of its

580
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 3: erstwhile enemies were collaborating with it, and it also hit

581
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 3: it in some part from its allies. And three, at

582
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 3: the same time, while keeping all this a secret, it

583
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 3: deployed this technology successfully, even if only in a test

584
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 3: run like that BMW a T one thousand BMW that

585
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 3: we're talking about off air.

586
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:46,879
Speaker 5: Oh, it's made of liquid metal.

587
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 3: Two it's been a fabric with Okay, the.

588
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 5: Actual model number were you referring to?

589
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 3: BMW is not that cool, sorry BMW owners.

590
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 2: But it uses a thing that DARPA has an active

591
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 2: research project on. I guess we would call it what

592
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 2: do they call it? Active flow control? Being able to

593
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 2: change basically the shape of a craft at at will

594
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 2: or in certain configurations.

595
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 3: Hmmm, yeah, the idea being that it can adapt in

596
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 3: media arrests as needed. Right, And you don't have to

597
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 3: you know how, Like you if you want a different

598
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 3: sort of airflow control on your typical on your typical

599
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:39,879
Speaker 3: fast and furious vehicle, you have to take it into

600
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 3: the shop. To put in a spoiler. You can just

601
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:43,479
Speaker 3: do that on the road.

602
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and often with BMW, I think with their

603
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 2: model it was to make it cool looking and in

604
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 2: different ways. But you know, with DARPA, it's their their

605
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 2: program is called Crane, which you know, these acronyms that

606
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 2: they're running with a DARPA control of revolutionary aircraft with

607
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,879
Speaker 2: novel effectors. And then you combine that up with their

608
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 2: drag program that's also active drag reducing architected geometries, which

609
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:12,760
Speaker 2: is interesting, right.

610
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, but putting revolutionary in there definitely sounds like a

611
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 3: sales pitch.

612
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 2: I don't no, dude. They had to make Crane work, Okay, Ben.

613
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,399
Speaker 3: All right, they had to make Cravee work. We've all

614
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 3: been there also, you know, shout out to all the

615
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 3: all the boffins at BMW who I'm sure working around

616
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 3: the clock to institute turn signals in their vehicles. You

617
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 3: know what I meant, This struggle is real. You know,

618
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 3: check in with DARPA. Science continues on BMW turn signals.

619
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 2: But for real, guys, do you think if DARPA publicly

620
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 2: puts on their website a program like that, do you

621
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 2: think that that is already something that has been developed

622
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,280
Speaker 2: and is controlled, and now it's just studying it more,

623
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 2: or something that they something that's already patented, or you know,

624
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 2: use their abilities to take that patent away and then

625
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 2: research it for ten twenty thirty years.

626
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 3: The Invention Act makes it pretty certain to me that

627
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 3: for it to be on a publicly available website, the

628
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 3: concept or the possibility has been proven. It's just whether

629
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 3: or not it can be applicable in a feasible manner.

630
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 3: That's my take.

631
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 5: I don't know what you guys think.

632
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 3: I hear you.

633
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 2: It's weird. It's just because you can also find their

634
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,760
Speaker 2: lunar architecture program that's been going on for a while.

635
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 3: This makes you think, and China's going to mine the

636
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,240
Speaker 3: Moon and everything's fine on Earth anyway.

637
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 5: This was going to blow up the moon. Let's shine

638
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 5: up their mining. Yeah maybe us. I don't know.

639
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,919
Speaker 3: Sarah Silverman's so mad. You know, we're Earth lanes. Let's

640
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 3: blow up Earth things. I rewatched that after one of

641
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 3: our one of our recent episodes. But but there is

642
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 3: that there are some troubling truths to McKinnon's claims. First off,

643
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 3: McKinnon has always said what he saw, whether or not

644
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 3: you agree with it or his interpretation theref. He says

645
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,760
Speaker 3: what he saw proves above all one thing, the US will,

646
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 3: by hook or by crook, seek dominance in outer space.

647
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 3: And the pickle of it is that's true. You don't

648
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 3: need alien technology to prove that. The X thirty seven B.

649
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 3: If you're hearing this on Earth, that bad boy is

650
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 3: flying over you right now. The NRO is all up

651
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 3: in your text messages if they want to be.

652
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 2: Space foress and I. The NRO is looking at your

653
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 2: phone as you're walking outside at text messages. They're not

654
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 2: They're not like that signals intelligence. They're literally looking at

655
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 2: your life like they're zooming.

656
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 3: In like all those all those copaganda films you see

657
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 3: where or the programs where like there are people working

658
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 3: in an office that is way too nice for an

659
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 3: law enforcement agency when they're like leaning over the computer

660
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,240
Speaker 3: with the one person who apparently knows how to use Google,

661
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 3: and they're like screens right, and they're like enhance, enhance,

662
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 3: enhance that image. Gle enhance that image. The NRO can

663
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 3: really do that.

664
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, they actually have the lenses for it, which is

665
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 2: so weird to think about. But guys, there's also things

666
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 2: like the new Space Force and Operation Cobra, which is

667
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 2: this giant echo. Oh excuse me, Cobra Gold twenty.

668
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 3: Four put some respect on it again.

669
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 2: Seriously, just a huge joint multinational exercise kind of like

670
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 2: jade Helm where they are using space and the forces

671
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 2: in space that they control, the Space Forces, and they're

672
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 2: doing joint military exercises with that, and y'all. This was

673
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 2: announced March twenty eighth, twenty twenty four, so just a

674
00:41:55,840 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 2: couple of days ago as we're recording. This Space Force

675
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 2: created a thing called Space Scent, which is their central

676
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 2: command basically at Space Force.

677
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 3: Sure like Sentcomm or force comm exactly.

678
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 2: They call it Space Scent. And they just deployed this

679
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 2: thing called US Space Force Central Combat Detachment three to one,

680
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 2: which is for space combat. Guys. It's the first time

681
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 2: I've actually heard of, you know, the United States or

682
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 2: Space Force. I think they're getting ready to put weapons

683
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 2: in space like and do it actively and publicly, because

684
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 2: that was a that was a public announcement that they made.

685
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 3: And it will be in reaction to signals sent by

686
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,280
Speaker 3: the Russian forces. So it's all defense, I'm.

687
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 2: Sure, But I just I guess what I mean, dude. Yes,

688
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 2: but it's happening right now and it's real and just

689
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 2: what I'm imagining. How far we've come since two thousand

690
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 2: and two when Gary was in those servers, right.

691
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, history proved him to a degree prescient, right in

692
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 3: some respects. Again, extra terrestrials have not been proven nor

693
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 3: confirmed yet, and solar warden as a concept is again

694
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 3: officially unproven. There has been two date, no official confirmation,

695
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 3: no statement to the public past that one sort of

696
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 3: alighting foy a response of anything like solar warden. But

697
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 3: there are troubling things in the wind. They are ripples

698
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 3: in the water. The sea is not calm, and what

699
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 3: swims beneath or above it. We're gonna pause for a

700
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 3: word from our sponsor, and then we'll return with our

701
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 3: verdict to maybe an update on Gary. Has anybody talked

702
00:43:48,120 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 3: about Gary? Okay? Yeah, Gary's okay, And we have turn

703
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 3: to your earlier point, Matt. Recent events require a new

704
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 3: reassessment part of the alliteration of Gary's claims. In the

705
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 3: years or excuse me, decades following two thousand and two,

706
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 3: multiple largely credible individuals came forward with claims that something

707
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 3: was fishy up there in the skies and in the ink.

708
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 3: I mean, that's the question. Did Gary McKinnon succeed in

709
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 3: his mission? Did he verify and publicize some sort of

710
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 3: long running, obscure above top secret program leveraging bleeding edge technology.

711
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 2: Well, what he didn't understand is that that Excel spreadsheet

712
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 2: actually had a list of non human assets within the

713
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 2: United States Army or just military or whatever. No, I'm

714
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 2: just choking. I'm just choking.

715
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 5: It was a hidden column.

716
00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but imagine if there was. It's really funny.

717
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 2: Can you imagine if if it was like they just

718
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:09,240
Speaker 2: had human names for everybody else's benefit working on the teams.

719
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,839
Speaker 5: But instead of like zarg or you know whatever.

720
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 2: Something that you couldn't even pronounce, probably with human mouth.

721
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 3: Man, doctor accula.

722
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 5: That's different.

723
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 4: I don't know, guys, My skeptic brain is still kind

724
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 4: of firing off at this point. I don't know that

725
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 4: I've been swayed, because we just we've certainly seen evidence

726
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 4: of some stuff, and it usually does tie back to

727
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 4: these kind of tests of bleeding edge tech, like you said, Ben,

728
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:44,919
Speaker 4: but not stuff quite within the realm of what old Gary.

729
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 5: Here is is alleging. So I don't know.

730
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 4: I would love to speak to the man himself. But

731
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 4: where where is this this investigation gotten?

732
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 3: You guys too, Yeah, that's a good question. Skeptics may

733
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 3: easily and with validity, dismiss the entirety of this tangled

734
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 3: stories hogwash. But if we are exercising skepticism and critical thinking, which.

735
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 4: Goes both ways, doesn't just mean that you're negging something,

736
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 4: It just means that you thought about it because you're

737
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 4: skeptical on the opposite end.

738
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm really glad. I'm really happy that you point

739
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 3: that out, because skepticism, skepticism that shies away from inconvenient questions,

740
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 3: is only another zealous ideology and as such does not

741
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 3: serve our purposes and is indeed antithetical to critical thinking.

742
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 3: I mean, if if okay, so here here are the questions.

743
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 3: If any or all of this stuff that mkennan is

744
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 3: claiming is false, why did the United States spend so

745
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 3: much time pushing for his extradition? Right? They put a

746
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 3: lot of blood, sweat, and treasure into that. You could

747
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 3: say they wanted to make of him an example makes sense?

748
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,479
Speaker 4: Really, only know they love to do that, and if

749
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,359
Speaker 4: they've got a big one, They'll probably put a little

750
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,959
Speaker 4: more resources into it because it would certainly serve their

751
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 4: goals of discouraging others from you know, getting into their

752
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 4: into their business.

753
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 2: But if you've really found something, wouldn't wouldn't the men

754
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 2: in black just give them the old flash of Roos

755
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,760
Speaker 2: disappear or send him to a black site somewhere.

756
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, commit suicide by shooting himself twice in

757
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 3: the back of his head, or maybe maybe shooting himself

758
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 3: with his non dominant hand and then his shit too,

759
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 3: and his two children look at m.

760
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 4: Okay, Well, it really makes me think of a show

761
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 4: that I've really been enjoying lately that I think we

762
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 4: talked about during our travels, an Apple TV or Apple

763
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 4: Plus show called Slow Horses, about spy masters, you know

764
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 4: in the UK working for their intelligence services, and of

765
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 4: course Gary Oldman plays the spy masters in charge of

766
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 4: kind of the the bad, the worst spies that sort

767
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 4: of did a bad job and got sort of put

768
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 4: in this a place called slough House for punishment. But

769
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 4: some of the stuff that it goes into in terms

770
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 4: of how far the government will go to silence those

771
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 4: that have information that they would rather not get out there.

772
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,799
Speaker 4: It's pretty chilling stuff and it really does feel like

773
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 4: it has the ring of truth.

774
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 5: So I'm with you, guys.

775
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 4: I feel like the secrets suit of the faked suicide

776
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 4: or just you know, convenience vanishing would probably be on

777
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 4: the table if he really did have the goods.

778
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 3: And then to answer that, to counterpoint to that first question,

779
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 3: why did the US spend so much time pushing for

780
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 3: his extradition? If any of this stuff is true, not

781
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:40,919
Speaker 3: all of it, but any of it, then why did

782
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 3: the US, the world's most powerful and dangerous force. Why

783
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 3: did they ultimately comply with the United Kingdom's decision to

784
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 3: keep McKinnon on their soil? We'll get to that. Why

785
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 3: did they push? Push, push? And then give why on Earth?

786
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 3: To put this quite bluntly, in a way that you

787
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 3: will not hear in diplomatic conversations, why on Earth? Part

788
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 3: in the wordplay? Is Gary McKinnon still alive? It's true

789
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 3: at this point, he's alive. He's on UK soil. He

790
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 3: did delete his Twitter. I guess that's a casualty of

791
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 3: it if.

792
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 2: You want to, because it's an X account.

793
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 3: Now it's an ex account. Now sure, he's big on

794
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 3: true social or whatever. But the photos he allegedly obtained

795
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:36,320
Speaker 3: were removed from his computer when he was initially popped

796
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,359
Speaker 3: and put in Brixton right in two thousand and two.

797
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 3: He he doesn't have access to these photos as well.

798
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 3: Per his most recent conversations, he claims that the UK

799
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 3: government used photoshop in specific shout out Adobe to edit

800
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:58,800
Speaker 3: out the UFOs from these photos before they were released

801
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:02,439
Speaker 3: or even propagated internally. And that is a tail all

802
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 3: too common in the modern narrative cough cough, folklore of disclosure.

803
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 3: The proof is there, I saw it, but due to

804
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 3: insert reason here, you cannot see it.

805
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:18,799
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I'm thinking about the Mirage men and some

806
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 2: of those discoveries that the US government will use disinformation

807
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 2: agents to put false information out there to a UFO enthusiast.

808
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:32,879
Speaker 2: Right so, and I'm imagining what what if the security

809
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 2: on those servers actually was really great and they watched

810
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:40,839
Speaker 2: Gary McKinnon stroll through the door and they went, oh, guys, guys,

811
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 2: this guy's sneaking around. Uh you, let's let's get some

812
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 2: of those UFO photographs, those like ones that we generated.

813
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 2: Let's get those into a folder. Is anyone really good

814
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 2: at excel. Let's make a spreadsheet with quote non terrestrial officers.

815
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:57,879
Speaker 2: Let's make sure he sees that. What do you think

816
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 2: that's even in the realm of possibility.

817
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's in the realm possibility. You know what's that

818
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 3: line the pond mocks the movements of the bishop and

819
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 3: never sees the chessboard from above, you know what I mean?

820
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 3: Or it's just a cool prank.

821
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 2: Well, well, but in the end, like it's it's part

822
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:19,439
Speaker 2: of the propaganda world building that the United States has

823
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 2: been involved with for since its inception. Right, Sure, make

824
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 2: the story about US big and huge and scary to

825
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 2: a lot of points, but also exciting and you know,

826
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 2: patriotic and special, and every country does that. And I

827
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 2: just wonder if there's something like.

828
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 3: That, there's theater to it. It's quite possible. It's also

829
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:45,800
Speaker 3: you know, in in the point or to the pro

830
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 3: side of that argument, it is much more likely than

831
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 3: the idea that extraterrestrials crashed on the planet Earth in

832
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 3: a time of modern civilization and that their technology was

833
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 3: understandable and recover and successfully leveraged by primates, you know

834
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:07,840
Speaker 3: what I mean, Like put it in that perspective, the

835
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,360
Speaker 3: grift seems a little bit more plausible.

836
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it took thirty three years, right, nineteen forty

837
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 2: seven to nineteen eighty.

838
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:19,879
Speaker 3: Photoshop wasn't where it is now. That's part of it.

839
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,319
Speaker 3: But I see, I think that's a good example. And

840
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 3: you know, folks, we don't have the answers for this.

841
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 3: We can tell you that in twenty twelve, under the

842
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 3: administration of Teresa May, Gary McKinnon's extradition was blocked, and

843
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 3: it was blocked entirely on the basis of human rights,

844
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 3: given that the US penal system is a nightmare, and

845
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 3: given that McKinnon does have Asberger's, is not affiliated with

846
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 3: any terrorist organization, et cetera, et cetera. They said, we're

847
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 3: not going to do it. We're not going to send

848
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:59,320
Speaker 3: this guy to the wolves. And ultimately, as we record

849
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 3: this evening, McKinnon was neither trialed nor officially the charges

850
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 3: against him were dropped in the United Kingdom, and there

851
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:15,760
Speaker 3: have been few substantive updates since. Imagine, if you will,

852
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:20,759
Speaker 3: Julian Assange over in that Ecuadorian embassy looking on and

853
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 3: wonder and envy.

854
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, no joke, Julian. We're still rooting for you, You're okay, Well, yeah, no.

855
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 4: I mean in the way of an update, what is

856
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 4: happening with Julian. He's still just a holding patterns as

857
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:36,319
Speaker 4: that has always been.

858
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 2: Is it that time? Is it a Julian songe update time.

859
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 5: I'm just we haven't talked about it in so long.

860
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 5: I kind of lost Jack. I just assumed it was

861
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 5: sort of the same, much of the same.

862
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 3: But he's got he is still embroiled. I was talking

863
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 3: with I was talking briefly with our pals from Zeitgeist,

864
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 3: Miles and Jack about this. He is still embroiled in

865
00:53:56,239 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 3: attempting to stave off extradition to the United States. But

866
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 3: Uncle Sam wants him very bad, like that poster. I

867
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:09,920
Speaker 3: want like that post specifically, But man, he's been fighting

868
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:10,800
Speaker 3: that for years.

869
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:15,399
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, And I guess my question is, like, if

870
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 4: they really want you, maybe it should give us a

871
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:19,360
Speaker 4: little bit of a solace.

872
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 5: It does appear they can't just get you.

873
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 4: There's a lot of red tape that has to be

874
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:26,360
Speaker 4: worked through to make things like that happen.

875
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 5: A lot of the operation.

876
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 2: It depends what you did, too, right, That's also true.

877
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 3: It does it does you mess with the future. You

878
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 3: mess with the money, you mess with the resource extraction,

879
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 3: you get on a different list. It's a much shorter list,

880
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 3: and in the consequences of that list are not cool.

881
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 3: He got upgraded on the Naughty list, basically, he got

882
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 3: naughty plus.

883
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:52,839
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. And with McKinnon they were just like, oh man,

884
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 2: he found the pictures of the thing we're going to

885
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 2: deploy in twenty twenty four during the solar eclipse. Ah jeez.

886
00:54:59,000 --> 00:54:59,239
Speaker 1: Nice.

887
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 2: Oh well, it'll be all right, nice.

888
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 3: This episode may come out around then. Yeah, and right now.

889
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:11,720
Speaker 3: As of about three days ago. Last week, as we record,

890
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:15,359
Speaker 3: at the end of March, a British court temporarily yet

891
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 3: again delayed the extradition of Julian Asonge. So it's still

892
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:23,400
Speaker 3: kicking the can down the road and we are going

893
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 3: to have I think a full update when that news breaks.

894
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 3: Have one last question for you guys. I know we're

895
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:32,880
Speaker 3: getting close to our time together this evening, Matt nolefellow

896
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 3: conspiracy realist. If there is a real secret afoot, then

897
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 3: riddle me this. Why is the BBC coming out with

898
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:46,959
Speaker 3: a feature film called The People Versus Gary McKinnon. Why

899
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 3: did the BBC Radio four air a two thousand and

900
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:54,800
Speaker 3: seven radio play called the McKinnon Extradition. If you're trying

901
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,840
Speaker 3: to cover up the truth, I mean, it's the wijiboard question.

902
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 3: If a Wiji board actually lets you speak with the dead,

903
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:04,799
Speaker 3: why can you buy one at every department store?

904
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:09,319
Speaker 2: I mean, I hear you. Why did they let Ian

905
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:13,959
Speaker 2: Douglass write a three part series called Solar Warden. I mean,

906
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 2: it's out there. You can find it and guess what

907
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 2: it's about.

908
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 3: What's it about?

909
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 2: Very thing? It's a sci fi science fiction three part series.

910
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 2: The first one's called Alien Secrets and it came out

911
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 2: in June twenty twenty, and the third series came out

912
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 2: last April.

913
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:31,319
Speaker 5: Any good, we don't know.

914
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 2: We haven't read it. I'ven't read it.

915
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 4: Well, what about the radio play? Thing that's interesting? Medium

916
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:39,239
Speaker 4: for it? Of either of you guys check it out.

917
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 3: I thought the I mean the readio play I thought

918
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 3: was interesting is way more, in my opinion's way more

919
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:53,879
Speaker 3: focused on the extradition struggle for Gary McKinnon and the

920
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 3: BBC film that should be on the way soon is

921
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:01,800
Speaker 3: based on a book by Jnas Sharp, who is Gary

922
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:09,440
Speaker 3: McKinnon's mother. So Solar Warden the science fiction series is

923
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 3: more focused on what we're talking about today.

924
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 2: And it is, by the way, it is about the

925
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 2: I think so the Solar Warden fiction series, just to

926
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 2: make sure we know what we're talking about here. It

927
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 2: does focus on the end of World War two, right

928
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 2: around the old roswell crash times, just saying okay, I

929
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 2: don't know, whatever I have. The art looks fun to me.

930
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 2: And Ian Douglass has definitely written a dang crapload of

931
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:39,080
Speaker 2: science fiction and military books.

932
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 3: Yes, quite prolific author, for sure, and there has in

933
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:46,440
Speaker 3: recent years been a growing market for stories touching on

934
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 3: government cover ups and allegations of unusual things, especially you know,

935
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 3: alternate history or revisionist history UFOs UAP. But one thing

936
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 3: is for sure, fantasy aside. There is a lot of

937
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:07,479
Speaker 3: activity in the air these days, more so now than

938
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 3: at any point in way for modern civilization. A lot

939
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 3: of stuff is out in space, and until the public

940
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 3: gets some solid answers, a lot of that stuff remains

941
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 3: the stuff they don't want you to know. We can't

942
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 3: wait to hear your thoughts, folks. We try to be

943
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 3: easy to find online.

944
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 4: Find us online at the handle Conspiracy Stuff, where we

945
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:35,920
Speaker 4: exist on Facebook, on YouTube and on xfka, Twitter, on

946
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 4: TikTok and Instagram. We are a conspiracy stuff show.

947
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 2: Do you like calling people and leaving voicemails? Where you

948
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 2: can do that to us? Call one eight three three STDWYTK.

949
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 2: That's stuff that I want you to know. Just smash

950
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 2: together DARPA style when you call in, give yourself a

951
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 2: cool nickname, let us know if we can use your

952
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 2: name and message on the air, and then you've got

953
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:01,720
Speaker 2: three minutes. Do whatever you'd like within those three minutes.

954
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 2: If you do know the first things we asked you

955
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 2: to do, if you've got more to say than can

956
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 2: fit in that message, if you've got links, if you've

957
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 2: got attachments, why not instead shoot us a good old

958
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 2: fashioned email.

959
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 3: We are the folks who read every single email we get.

960
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 3: Take us to the edge of the rabbit hole, will

961
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 3: do the rest? Be worn folks. Sometimes the void writes

962
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:45,439
Speaker 3: back conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

963
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:47,680
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production

964
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:52,320
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

965
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:55,640
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.