WEBVTT - Building the Brain-Prosthesis Interface

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<v Speaker 1>Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to

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<v Speaker 1>Forward Thinking. Welcome everyone to Forward Thinking, the podcast that's Bigger, Faster, Stronger.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland, and I am joined by

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<v Speaker 1>Lauren Vocalban and Joe McCormick, and we wanted to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about transhumanism, but specifically about how prostheses have changed over

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<v Speaker 1>the years and how they're going to change in the future,

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<v Speaker 1>and h the interfaces that we will use between our

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<v Speaker 1>brains and a robotic prosthetic for those of us who

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<v Speaker 1>need to be fitted with them. Um. And to really

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<v Speaker 1>understand about the development of prosthetics, you just got to

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<v Speaker 1>look back a few decades really to see how far

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<v Speaker 1>we've come. Because Dean Cayman, who is a developer of

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<v Speaker 1>many technologies, one of the most famous being the segue,

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<v Speaker 1>but also of something called the Luke arm, which we'll

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<v Speaker 1>talk about in a little bit, said, you know, you

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<v Speaker 1>just look at the development. If you looked at prosthetic legs,

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<v Speaker 1>they had progressed quite a bit over the last several decades,

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<v Speaker 1>but prosthetic arms had not. Essentially, if you had lost,

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<v Speaker 1>say a hand, you would get it replaced with a hook,

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<v Speaker 1>and maybe a few years later they developed it where

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<v Speaker 1>you could have a hook that would have a clamp

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<v Speaker 1>essentially on it that would be attached to other muscles,

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<v Speaker 1>and when you would clinch those muscles, you could make

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<v Speaker 1>the clampch other. Yeah, you can pinch things, pick things up,

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<v Speaker 1>but still very limited mobility, very limited utility, and that

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<v Speaker 1>this this sort of state of affairs lasted way too long.

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<v Speaker 1>Though it's surely not because the designers were lazy. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>this is really hard to do. Yeah, no, it's it's

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<v Speaker 1>incredibly tricky to design a limb that can replace something

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<v Speaker 1>as versatile as the as a human arm. When you

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<v Speaker 1>think about, um, the human arm, and you think about

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<v Speaker 1>how many degrees of freedom you need right to do

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<v Speaker 1>something as complex as say playing a guitar, or even

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<v Speaker 1>just like eating spaghetti, even just picking up a cup.

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<v Speaker 1>But when you're not entirely sure how how hard the

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<v Speaker 1>cup is. That's that's not a thing that you find

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<v Speaker 1>out until you touch it. And you've got this incredibly

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<v Speaker 1>complex feedback system, right, yeah, how heavy it might be,

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<v Speaker 1>so you have to be you know, we take it

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<v Speaker 1>for granted, those of us who have all our limbs,

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<v Speaker 1>We take it for granted, because that's our daily experience, right.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's only when something has happened where uh, we

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<v Speaker 1>need to have a limb replaced, or maybe we were

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<v Speaker 1>born without a limb, that this really becomes a consideration

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<v Speaker 1>that you know, we think about for any length of time.

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<v Speaker 1>Otherwise it's just this is just life. I just just

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<v Speaker 1>reach over and pick up a cup, yeah, which of

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<v Speaker 1>course happens all the time. And going way back into

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<v Speaker 1>history with with War, I mean especially in history because

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<v Speaker 1>we had less good medical technology, and less good was

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<v Speaker 1>pretty much a mark of history as far as the

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<v Speaker 1>medical technology went vocal bound. But I say worst things

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<v Speaker 1>on a nearly minute by minute basis. You're good. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a good word. Um, but you know, and then you've

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<v Speaker 1>got you've got all kinds of of science fiction things

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<v Speaker 1>like like a Star Wars where where you know, Luke

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<v Speaker 1>loses a hand and I've only made word my way

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<v Speaker 1>up to episode two OMG spoilers, or even even an

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<v Speaker 1>Army of Darkness where you know, Ash goes back in

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<v Speaker 1>time and somehow can cos this mechanical hand of the gauntlet.

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<v Speaker 1>It's groovy. I will say it's groovy. For the longest time,

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<v Speaker 1>we were looking at pretty limited prosthetic arms. Uh. And

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<v Speaker 1>really that's where a lot of the focus on the

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<v Speaker 1>technology has been recently. Although we've seen other type of

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<v Speaker 1>of robotic aids, uh, not just for arms, but things

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<v Speaker 1>like cochlear implants things like that. But but arms are

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<v Speaker 1>really what we were focusing on today. Well, it seems

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<v Speaker 1>that what's the difficulty. Hear right, We can create robotic

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<v Speaker 1>arms these days that are incredibly precise. And I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>talking about the kind of arms you put on a person, right,

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<v Speaker 1>You're talking about our stationary arm that might work on manufacturing. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>go look at a you know, like an auto production

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<v Speaker 1>facility and look at the amazing arms they can build.

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<v Speaker 1>The problem doesn't seem to be anymore the design of

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<v Speaker 1>the arm itself, but the interface between the arm and

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<v Speaker 1>the human brain that controls it. To be fair, there's

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<v Speaker 1>also I'm sorry, Lauren, go ahead, Oh no, no no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 1>I was just gonna say, you know, we still know

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<v Speaker 1>more about robotic mechanics than we really do about human

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<v Speaker 1>brain mechanics because the way that neurons work is kind

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<v Speaker 1>of mysterious. Right, And and on top of that, just

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<v Speaker 1>to go back to another challenge that auto assembly arm

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<v Speaker 1>probably weighs several hundred pounds. So so, well we did

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<v Speaker 1>one thing, well we can well we did one job, right,

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<v Speaker 1>you had one thing to do today, but it did

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<v Speaker 1>it right six thousand times right. But but again, you're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about something that was made for industrial use. You're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about something that is meant to replace a lost

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<v Speaker 1>human limb. Obviously, things you have to worry about, not

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<v Speaker 1>just our usability, but how heavy is it? It needs

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<v Speaker 1>to be like cost, the cause, well the cost also,

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<v Speaker 1>but really, I mean putting costs aside for now, how

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<v Speaker 1>heavy is it? You've got to make it light enough

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<v Speaker 1>so that a human being can can use this comfortably

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<v Speaker 1>or else it's not useful, right, It's not not something

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<v Speaker 1>that's going to increase someone's quality of life, which is

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<v Speaker 1>really what we're talking about here. So it needs to

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<v Speaker 1>be light. It needs to be efficient because if you

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<v Speaker 1>have to constantly uh plug it in because the batteries

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<v Speaker 1>are draining, then that would be a quality of life

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<v Speaker 1>issue as well. It needs to be versatile. It needs

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<v Speaker 1>to be able to give you some sort of sensory

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<v Speaker 1>feedback because if you have a robotic arm that has

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<v Speaker 1>a ability to grip but no feedback. You wouldn't know

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<v Speaker 1>how hard to grip something before picking up. You could

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<v Speaker 1>shatter glass just squishing cups of coffee at the right

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<v Speaker 1>You wouldn't want to do that, obviously, if you were

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<v Speaker 1>unable to determine how tightly you were squeezing them without

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<v Speaker 1>I mean hearing them squeal in pain obviously. So so

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<v Speaker 1>these are challenges. I mean, they're real challenges. It seems

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<v Speaker 1>kind of easy to make light of it, but when

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<v Speaker 1>you think of it from an engineering standpoint, these are

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<v Speaker 1>real challenges to overcome, and uh, to kind of talk

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<v Speaker 1>about where we've been. Recently, Dean came in again, the

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<v Speaker 1>guy who invented the segue. He took on a project

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<v Speaker 1>that he ended up calling the Luke Arm, and he

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<v Speaker 1>named it after the character from the Star Wars series,

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<v Speaker 1>Luke Skywalker who the Star Wars series. Yes, it's a series,

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<v Speaker 1>a series of three, wouldn't it wouldn't it be nice

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<v Speaker 1>if they made some Star Wars prequels. I bet those

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<v Speaker 1>would be swell. I love making that joke every time

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<v Speaker 1>we bring this up. But yes, Star Wars, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>Luke Skywalker has his arm lopped off by his daddy

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<v Speaker 1>Darth Vaders spoiler alert and Empire states his hand but

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<v Speaker 1>go on, it's it is just his hand. But he

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<v Speaker 1>ends up having more than just the hand replaced because

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<v Speaker 1>you can see it in the wrist right because anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>so he has his hand replaced with a robotic So

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<v Speaker 1>Dean came in name his robotic arm after that character,

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<v Speaker 1>Luke Skywalker and uh. And what happened was he was

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<v Speaker 1>actually approached by the United States government and they were

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<v Speaker 1>telling him, listen, we have a lot of servicemen and

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<v Speaker 1>women coming back from overseas who have suffered injuries in

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<v Speaker 1>the line of duty. And while we can do a

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<v Speaker 1>lot for anyone who's lost a leg, because the technology

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<v Speaker 1>has really improved quite a bit so that people can

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<v Speaker 1>get around with some you know, limited mobility, but better

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<v Speaker 1>off than they were. Uh, that technology hasn't really advanced

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<v Speaker 1>to arms, so if someone's lost an arm, we don't

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<v Speaker 1>have really anything sophisticated to help replace it. And so

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<v Speaker 1>they gave him a challenge and they said, we need

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<v Speaker 1>you to develop a technology that will allow a person

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<v Speaker 1>who has lost all or part of an arm to

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<v Speaker 1>have essentially the same mobility they would have if they

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<v Speaker 1>still had their arm. The it can't weigh more than

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<v Speaker 1>a normal quote unquote an average relations a normal and

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<v Speaker 1>average human arm. Uh, and it needs to have some

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<v Speaker 1>sort of sensory feedback so know how tightly to grip

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<v Speaker 1>something when you're picking it up and uh. And at

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<v Speaker 1>first Dean came in said, Wow, I don't know that

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<v Speaker 1>this is possible, because you're talking about developing something that's

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<v Speaker 1>that's really light advanced in light. Those are the two things, right.

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<v Speaker 1>And needed to have a lot of technology in it.

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<v Speaker 1>And it needed to have and needed to be made

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<v Speaker 1>out of the material and enough with enough power but

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<v Speaker 1>still be light so that someone would not feel like

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<v Speaker 1>it's a burden to wear it. And so they developed

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<v Speaker 1>this Luke arms system and the early ones had an

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<v Speaker 1>interface that was completely I mean, it was electronic, but

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<v Speaker 1>it was similar to like a mechanical system in the

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<v Speaker 1>sense that you would have buttons that you would operate,

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<v Speaker 1>but with your feet you would wear uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>your shoes would have the controls in them, and by

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<v Speaker 1>putting pressure on your toes or the balls of your

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<v Speaker 1>feet or the heels, you could make the arm do

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<v Speaker 1>different things like rise. There's a great video that shows Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>an amputee who has lost nearly all of one arm

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<v Speaker 1>and all of the other arm, and uh, and he's

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<v Speaker 1>wearing a Luke arm that gives him the ability. I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's his left arm that he's he's got now

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<v Speaker 1>with the Luke arm, where he can do things like

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<v Speaker 1>if he leans forward, the arm bends at the elbow,

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<v Speaker 1>so he can bend his bring his hand closer to

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<v Speaker 1>his face. And if he leans back, then it extends

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<v Speaker 1>the elbow. And then by operating a switch with by

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<v Speaker 1>by leaning his neck just a little bit, he could

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<v Speaker 1>change it so he could rotate the wrist by doing

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<v Speaker 1>those same commands. So through a series of subtle and

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<v Speaker 1>these are so it's not like it's not like he

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<v Speaker 1>has to lean way forward to have this happen, but

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<v Speaker 1>a few subtle muscular movements, he can operate this robotic arm.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's one form of interface. Now granted, in this case,

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<v Speaker 1>you really have to train yourself how to operate this

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<v Speaker 1>robotic arm using all these different emotions. It's almost like

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<v Speaker 1>in a way playing a video game, manipulating a digital

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<v Speaker 1>care through physical controls, same sort of thing. You're not

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<v Speaker 1>You're not sending commands directly from the brain to the

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<v Speaker 1>robotic arm you're doing. You're saying, all right, well, here's

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<v Speaker 1>what I need to do. I need to lift my

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<v Speaker 1>arm up, So I have to put pressure on my

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<v Speaker 1>toes so that I can give the command to lift

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<v Speaker 1>up the arm. It has to become second nature. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>And any prosthesis is going to involve people learning those

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<v Speaker 1>kind of commands. They're they're making these retinal prostheses these

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<v Speaker 1>days that have an array of electrodes and in place

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<v Speaker 1>of the cells that would normally detect light for you,

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<v Speaker 1>and and they're they're hooked up to a kind of

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<v Speaker 1>kind of like Google glasses, sort of like a little

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<v Speaker 1>video camera and glasses that you can wear, and um,

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<v Speaker 1>the glasses tell you when you're seeing something. They send

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<v Speaker 1>a signal back to the electrodes, the electrodes and a

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<v Speaker 1>signal to your brain. But it's not like you're seeing it.

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<v Speaker 1>You have to learn how to interpret the messages like

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<v Speaker 1>you might. You might see blocks that are representing an

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<v Speaker 1>object in your in your field of view, and the

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<v Speaker 1>greater the resolution that the more blocks you will see

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<v Speaker 1>and the closer those blocks will resemble whatever the shape is.

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<v Speaker 1>So in general, with these right now, the state of

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<v Speaker 1>the art as I understand it is that it lets

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<v Speaker 1>you see that there's a shape in front of you,

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<v Speaker 1>but it doesn't really give you a lot of definition yet.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's incredibly promising. But we're always trying to get closer,

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<v Speaker 1>aren't we? And there there are some people who have

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<v Speaker 1>gotten amazingly close, as it seems to me. And by close,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm talking about the connection between the brain and the

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<v Speaker 1>movement of the press theses, uh, in a way that

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<v Speaker 1>feels natural. Now, when you go to move your your arm,

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<v Speaker 1>assuming you haven't a regular human arm that's still attached

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<v Speaker 1>to you just like most people have, UM, you don't

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<v Speaker 1>have to think about a series of commands to do it.

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<v Speaker 1>It's intuitive, right. You just think move and it moves.

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<v Speaker 1>You think pinch and it pinches. Could we get there? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>that's something I think a lot of people who design

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<v Speaker 1>press theses have been thinking about for a long It's

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<v Speaker 1>a great goal, right. And so I saw a really

0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:06.480
<v Speaker 1>interesting TED talk by UM, a guy who designs press

0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:08.520
<v Speaker 1>the season. His name was I think I'm pronouncing this

0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:11.720
<v Speaker 1>right as Todd Kaikin, and he was talking about a

0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:17.200
<v Speaker 1>process called targeted muscle reinnervation. And if I understand correctly.

0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:22.080
<v Speaker 1>The way this works is they can essentially simulate that

0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:26.000
<v Speaker 1>direct connection between the brain and the movement of the

0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:29.439
<v Speaker 1>Pross thesis and uh, it works like this. So you've

0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.280
<v Speaker 1>got a mechanical arm that has you know, a certain

0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:34.720
<v Speaker 1>number of degrees of freedom and actions that can do

0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:38.040
<v Speaker 1>like say, you know, move the forearm up and down

0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:41.640
<v Speaker 1>by bending at the elbow, or pinch by moving the

0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, the muscles in the arm, in the hand,

0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:47.280
<v Speaker 1>um and in us. All of these things are controlled

0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:50.480
<v Speaker 1>by nerve impulses through you know, nerves that go down

0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:54.520
<v Speaker 1>the arm. Now, they can't connect those nerves directly to

0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:56.640
<v Speaker 1>a machine yet they don't know how to do it.

0:12:57.240 --> 0:12:59.520
<v Speaker 1>We just haven't figured that out. The way to get

0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:02.160
<v Speaker 1>the nerves of to send the signal directly to a

0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:05.360
<v Speaker 1>machine to make it do the job essentially to build

0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.120
<v Speaker 1>a new pathway for the ones that were lost or

0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:12.600
<v Speaker 1>maybe we're never there, right, But they can reroute it mechanically.

0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:16.440
<v Speaker 1>And what he showed is that they would perform a

0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:19.040
<v Speaker 1>surgery where they would take these nerves out of the

0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:23.280
<v Speaker 1>arm and they'd reroute them to a muscle that's not used,

0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:26.120
<v Speaker 1>much like they would near the top of the pectoral muscle,

0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:30.520
<v Speaker 1>and each of these nerves would lead to a small

0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.600
<v Speaker 1>patch of muscle up in the upper pectoral. And so

0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:40.080
<v Speaker 1>when the person sends that that thought that the command

0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:43.280
<v Speaker 1>that that we used. You know, when you have an

0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:47.719
<v Speaker 1>uninjured arm or a regular arm um to pinch, that

0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:51.560
<v Speaker 1>sends a muscle command and it would make the muscle

0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:55.040
<v Speaker 1>in this case the upper pectoral where the nerve has

0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:59.040
<v Speaker 1>been routed, contract. Now they can teach the machine, based

0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:03.000
<v Speaker 1>on sensors attack match to that muscle to learn how

0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:08.679
<v Speaker 1>to do those commands. So essentially, by creating a mechanical

0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:13.560
<v Speaker 1>detour for the signal to follow, you can create direct

0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:17.440
<v Speaker 1>brain to pros thesis communication. So the person with this

0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:21.400
<v Speaker 1>arm really thinks pinch, and the arm pinches. So almost

0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:24.440
<v Speaker 1>instead of teaching the person how to rethink the process,

0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:26.760
<v Speaker 1>they're teaching the machine how to rethink the process, how

0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.880
<v Speaker 1>el the machine how to interpret those those muscle contractions.

0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:32.640
<v Speaker 1>That essentially, when this part of the muscle contracts, that

0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:35.520
<v Speaker 1>means rotate the wrist, that kind of thing, Because that's

0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.960
<v Speaker 1>what that's the actual command that's coming from the brain. Uh,

0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:44.080
<v Speaker 1>it's really fascinating and and that's that's a it's a

0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.280
<v Speaker 1>huge it's a huge leap ahead, and it's an amazing

0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:50.240
<v Speaker 1>development and it's very promising. Uh. And I imagine that

0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:53.760
<v Speaker 1>the next step would have be the direct brain interface,

0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:57.440
<v Speaker 1>where we don't even have that um that that little

0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:00.600
<v Speaker 1>mechanical stop over, stop over sure. Right now, there's a

0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:03.600
<v Speaker 1>problem with real estate, right You've you've only got so

0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:05.880
<v Speaker 1>much muscle on your body that you can use to

0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:09.640
<v Speaker 1>amplify these nerve signals, and by doing that, you're taking

0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.160
<v Speaker 1>up muscles that really should be used for other things.

0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:14.480
<v Speaker 1>Right yeah, Yeah, there are only a few muscles that

0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:18.240
<v Speaker 1>we would not think of as being really necessary for

0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:21.680
<v Speaker 1>uh day to day life. You know, things that things

0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:25.640
<v Speaker 1>that you you have, but you're not using them all

0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:28.800
<v Speaker 1>the time for some other purpose. Uh. Clearly if it

0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:31.840
<v Speaker 1>were something else that you were using all the time,

0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:34.920
<v Speaker 1>then that would interfere. Like when you were trying to

0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:37.720
<v Speaker 1>actually accomplish one task, it would have a second task

0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:39.800
<v Speaker 1>going on with your robotic limb because it was being

0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:43.440
<v Speaker 1>it was misinterpreting the commands. Um yeah, because again, the

0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:48.960
<v Speaker 1>machine itself doesn't know anything, It doesn't know one command

0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:51.400
<v Speaker 1>from another. It just when it detects that there's this

0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:54.480
<v Speaker 1>this activity going on that's a command for it to

0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:57.600
<v Speaker 1>do something. The machine is not itself, is not intelligent,

0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:00.240
<v Speaker 1>it's just reacting in a very specific way to very

0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:04.960
<v Speaker 1>specific uh input. So yeah, I think the next step

0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:08.040
<v Speaker 1>is the whole brain computer interface, which is going to

0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:12.160
<v Speaker 1>go well beyond just prosthetics or prostheses, I should say,

0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:17.920
<v Speaker 1>Joe corrected me before the show pet Yeah, yeah, it's

0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:21.760
<v Speaker 1>what do you call it? What do you think earlier

0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:23.720
<v Speaker 1>to what do you call it when you have to

0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:31.240
<v Speaker 1>set your clocks back an hour? Anyway, Yeah, it's exciting

0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:35.120
<v Speaker 1>to see this development and uh and very encouraging and

0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:38.480
<v Speaker 1>and I highly recommend if you have not gone online

0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:41.560
<v Speaker 1>and watched that Ted talk or watched some of the

0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:45.000
<v Speaker 1>videos about Dean Cayman's lucarm I recommend watching them. They're

0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:49.400
<v Speaker 1>very inspiring. And it's to see the people who this

0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:52.440
<v Speaker 1>is affecting, that the people who have are are suddenly

0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.600
<v Speaker 1>regaining abilities that they might have lost more than a

0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:59.240
<v Speaker 1>decade or two decades ago. And to hear them talk

0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:03.040
<v Speaker 1>about that experien variants is really a phenomenal thing. And

0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:05.080
<v Speaker 1>and a lot of the people who are working on this,

0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.439
<v Speaker 1>on this medical technology, they credit the fact that you know,

0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.359
<v Speaker 1>you're actually seeing lives change because of what you do,

0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:14.560
<v Speaker 1>and that's why they're doing it. It's not because there's

0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.680
<v Speaker 1>some sort of lucrative contract involved. It's all about when

0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:21.640
<v Speaker 1>you see someone's life change in that that huge away,

0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.159
<v Speaker 1>and that they are suddenly much more self reliant because

0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:28.800
<v Speaker 1>of it. That's phenomenal. You know, it's a great story

0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:31.520
<v Speaker 1>and those are very inspiring videos. I highly recommend checking

0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:33.920
<v Speaker 1>them out. So I have a question for you. Sure,

0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:38.480
<v Speaker 1>imagining that this trend is going to continue like most

0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:42.320
<v Speaker 1>technological trends do, Um, how far away do you think

0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:46.200
<v Speaker 1>we are from a time when you can create a

0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:51.440
<v Speaker 1>prosthetic arm that's virtually indistinguishable from the arm you're born with. Well,

0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:56.240
<v Speaker 1>right now, we can already create limbs that give some

0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:59.760
<v Speaker 1>form of force feedback, although usually that's to let us.

0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:02.560
<v Speaker 1>Usually that ends up being something like a little vibrating motor,

0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.320
<v Speaker 1>and the more it vibrates, the harder you are gripping something.

0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:09.200
<v Speaker 1>So right now, that's you know, kind of an artificial

0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:12.200
<v Speaker 1>way of determining how hard you're gripping it. I would

0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:14.560
<v Speaker 1>say that this is so much fun because whenever you're

0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:16.959
<v Speaker 1>talking about future technologies, it's always safe to go with

0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:21.240
<v Speaker 1>we're twenty years away, because we're always twenty years away.

0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:24.120
<v Speaker 1>It depends on the technology. Either you're always twenty years

0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:30.399
<v Speaker 1>away or you're always a decade out away away. I

0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:34.760
<v Speaker 1>feel yeah, but but seriously, I mean, we're the complex

0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:38.639
<v Speaker 1>nature of creating a brain computer interface that is seamless

0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:43.080
<v Speaker 1>is you can't It's impossible for me to overstate how

0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:46.400
<v Speaker 1>complicated that is because we we honestly, we don't understand

0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:49.359
<v Speaker 1>everything about the brain. So until we have a true

0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:52.679
<v Speaker 1>understanding of the brain, it's very difficult to create an

0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:57.920
<v Speaker 1>interface that's going to work, especially yeah, especially across a population. Right,

0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:01.359
<v Speaker 1>you have to build them almost from the ground up

0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:04.439
<v Speaker 1>on an individual basis, because we don't have enough of

0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:07.960
<v Speaker 1>an understanding to approach it from a more general standpoint.

0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:14.360
<v Speaker 1>So final answer, twenty years, Laura, I'm gonna I will

0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:17.520
<v Speaker 1>while we're making up numbers, I'm gonna say fifty fifty years. Definitely.

0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:21.080
<v Speaker 1>Lauren's a pessimist, Joe, I have no idea. Why do

0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:23.040
<v Speaker 1>you ask a question because you just wanted to know

0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:25.320
<v Speaker 1>because you'll are smarter than me. Okay, well that's fair.

0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:28.960
<v Speaker 1>I do not think that's true. Don't come in so yeah, No,

0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:33.119
<v Speaker 1>I'm kidding Joe. Joe's a very bright guy. Uh, almost

0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:38.520
<v Speaker 1>human level intelligence. So but anyway, no, no, this this

0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:41.120
<v Speaker 1>is a really interesting topic and it's one of those

0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:45.520
<v Speaker 1>where I think when you see the benefits of the technology,

0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:47.919
<v Speaker 1>it's I can't imagine not being inspired by it. I

0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:50.440
<v Speaker 1>find it, you know, in an incredible story. So I'm

0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:53.480
<v Speaker 1>really eager to see this continue in the future. Uh.

0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:55.960
<v Speaker 1>And meanwhile, we want to know what you guys think

0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:58.200
<v Speaker 1>about the future, what's your what excites you about the future,

0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:00.200
<v Speaker 1>And we want this to really be a conversation sation,

0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:03.120
<v Speaker 1>So go to f w thinking dot com be part

0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:06.280
<v Speaker 1>of our group. You can follow us on Facebook, on Twitter,

0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:10.080
<v Speaker 1>on Google Plus. We're at all those locations. Were eager

0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:12.040
<v Speaker 1>to have this conversation where you find out what makes

0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:15.200
<v Speaker 1>you excited about the future. Let us know and we

0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:23.320
<v Speaker 1>will talk to you again really soon. For more on

0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:26.600
<v Speaker 1>this topic and the future of technology, visit forward Thinking

0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:39.040
<v Speaker 1>dot com, brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places