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Speaker 1: Hey, folks, it is Monday, September the twenty second, and

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Speaker 1: the stock is dropping for a company called kin Vu.

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Speaker 1: You know who they are, Well, they're the ones that

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Speaker 1: make thailandol. And right now all eyes are on tailan

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Speaker 1: al and a possible connection to autism. Welcome to this

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Speaker 1: episode of Amy and TJ. This is a big day,

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Speaker 1: a big announcement, and Robes is already stirring controversy on

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Speaker 1: what has been a controversial topic. We are expecting the

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Speaker 1: President to come out. I mean, this is essentially a bombshell,

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Speaker 1: that's right.

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Speaker 2: I mean he already basically announced it during the Charlie

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Speaker 2: Kirk memorial service and then reiterated it on the plane

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Speaker 2: back on Air Force one to reporters. But he believes

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Speaker 2: this is going to be a historic medical announcement. But

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Speaker 2: it certainly has a lot of people and scientists within

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Speaker 2: the medical community concerned.

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Speaker 1: What was the word he used. We think we figured

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Speaker 1: out we have an answer.

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Speaker 3: An answer to the autism problem.

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Speaker 1: He said that during Charlie Kirk's memorial service yesterday. They've

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Speaker 1: been talking about this Robes for a while. Rfka Junior

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Speaker 1: several months back, like all our eyes got big. Essentially

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Speaker 1: talking about they're gonna cure or end autism or fix

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Speaker 1: it or find the answer. This is what they were

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Speaker 1: talking about. And they said the announcement was going to

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Speaker 1: come in September.

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Speaker 2: Here we are, Yeah, they said, in five months, we

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Speaker 2: will have the answer for autism. And look, this is

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Speaker 2: a disorder that has puzzled and plagued parents for decades now.

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Speaker 2: There has been so much research and so much time

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Speaker 2: and energy and money to try and figure out what happens.

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Speaker 2: Because imagine you've got this sweet, beautiful, healthy baby, and

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Speaker 2: then around two or three, all of a sudden, you

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Speaker 2: realize your child maybe doesn't have the verbal skills that

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Speaker 2: other children have, they don't have the seeming like emotional

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Speaker 2: connection that other children have. You you know, something's off

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Speaker 2: with your child and you can't figure out why, and

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Speaker 2: you don't have really anything in your arsenal.

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Speaker 3: What can you do?

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Speaker 2: And it's really frustrating to watch your child not develop

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Speaker 2: the way maybe your other children have or other children

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Speaker 2: around them have.

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Speaker 1: It's so difficult because so young, and you just mentioned

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Speaker 1: two or three is when they identify. They finally diagnose

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Speaker 1: around the age of five. But for a parent, I mean,

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Speaker 1: so you don't want to take away now. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there are plenty of people out there, adults living full

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Speaker 1: lives who are on the autism spectrum. There are plenty

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Speaker 1: of families out there are happy and raising happy children

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Speaker 1: who are on the autism spectrum. But still that is

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Speaker 1: a devastating diagnosis for a parent who to your point,

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Speaker 1: I didn't think of it necessarily that way, Like everything

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Speaker 1: seems fine because their baby, everything's great, and they get wait, wait.

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Speaker 3: A minute, somebody's happen right, what's happening?

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Speaker 4: And then the other problem with that, too is.

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Speaker 3: Parents start to blame themselves. I had my.

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Speaker 2: Baby too late, maybe I didn't eat the right things

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Speaker 2: while I was pregnant, start doing the blame game, and

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Speaker 2: so that there are so many layers to this, because

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Speaker 2: you do feel guilt, but there are so many scientists

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Speaker 2: and researchers who believe there is such a genetic component

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Speaker 2: that it isn't anyone's fault, that it isn't anything the

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Speaker 2: mother did during pregnancy. But this would this new announcement

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Speaker 2: could suggest otherwise you hit.

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Speaker 1: It there to any parent who was ever, I guess

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Speaker 1: it's probably natural to think that, and what do I

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Speaker 1: do wrong? Doctors have definitely, definitively said you have done

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Speaker 1: nothing wrong. That is the consensus in the medical field.

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Speaker 1: You haven't done anything wrong, because they have no frickin'

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Speaker 1: idea right what causes it? They've been studying this for

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Speaker 1: so long they still the answer is we don't know

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Speaker 1: what causes autism. The White House and from the Oval

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Speaker 1: Office today, I don't know what language they're going to use,

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Speaker 1: because language and words are very important in this case.

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Speaker 1: What are they going to say. If they are going

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Speaker 1: to say that thailanol and acida metaphine, the active ingredient

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Speaker 1: in there, causes autism, that's huge and every doctor in

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Speaker 1: the world is going to say, show me.

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Speaker 2: That proof because right now, and there are some studies

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Speaker 2: out there, some recent studies that have shown possible links,

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Speaker 2: but certainly not a causation. And there is a difference

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Speaker 2: between correlation and causation, and that is significant. But yes,

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Speaker 2: words will matter, and we will be listening closely to

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Speaker 2: this press conference. We're expecting RFK Junior and meme at

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Speaker 2: Oz correct doctor Oz as well. So these are two

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Speaker 2: people who are controversial figures within the healthcare community who

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Speaker 2: will be leading this press conference. And it yes, what

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Speaker 2: they say and specifically how they word this will have

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Speaker 2: a huge impact not just on the medical community, on

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Speaker 2: doctors and their patients and parents. But yes, you even

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Speaker 2: mentioned the stock price right now of the company that

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Speaker 2: owns TIL and All is at a historic low, a

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Speaker 2: fifty two week load, just based on the speculation about

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Speaker 2: what they may say today at that press cont.

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Speaker 1: Because that's huge if they're going to make a connection

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Speaker 1: and tell people now, because you understood and age this

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Speaker 1: is common knowledge women. I said, you're pregnant. Women told

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Speaker 1: they can't take advil. You say, pregnant women told they

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Speaker 1: can't take anything.

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Speaker 2: We really can't take I mean nothing. It was actually shocking.

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Speaker 2: I didn't realize how much I wasn't able to take.

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Speaker 2: You can't take really any medicine whatsoever. I remember being

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Speaker 2: told I could take tailan al and I could take benadryl,

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Speaker 2: but certainly not whenever I wanted. It had to be

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Speaker 2: very specific, and it had to be I had to

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Speaker 2: really need it.

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Speaker 3: I really had to need both of them.

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Speaker 2: And that's you know, you don't drink alcohol, you don't

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Speaker 2: take medications, you don't you don't eat lunch meat, you

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Speaker 2: don't eat sushi. There are a lot of things that

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Speaker 2: women don't eat and consume that they normally would while

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Speaker 2: they're pregnant.

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Speaker 1: So to your point about the stock price, then the

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Speaker 1: idea that the one thing women have been told you can't,

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Speaker 1: that's the one thing that possibly calls your child's autism.

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Speaker 1: I just imagine lawsuits towards doctors, government, the company. I'm

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Speaker 1: surprised that stock hasn't fallen more than it has.

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Speaker 3: To be honest with you, I am too.

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Speaker 2: Actually, we'll wait and see what happens after this announcement,

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Speaker 2: because look, when this there was a study that came

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Speaker 2: out at the beginning of September. This was the Harvard study,

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Speaker 2: or at least it's certainly one of two studies that

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Speaker 2: came out. Stock prices have been dipping now for the

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Speaker 2: past two weeks, and then it got leaked that this

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Speaker 2: is likely what the Trump administration was going to say,

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Speaker 2: so that if you go and look at the stock market,

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Speaker 2: you know, it looks like an EKG or whatever if

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Speaker 2: it goes up, and you can see exactly when those

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Speaker 2: studies came out at the beginning of this month and

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Speaker 2: even some in August, I believe you can just see

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Speaker 2: it starting to steadily drop and then as of I.

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Speaker 3: Believe yesterday it just plummeted, plummeted.

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Speaker 1: Well, and again you say the words matter, and we'll

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Speaker 1: get into these studies and let's go back, and I said, this,

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Speaker 1: can most people really under do we know what even

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Speaker 1: autism is? So backing up just a little bit about

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Speaker 1: what we're talking about asd autism spectrum disorder characterized by

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Speaker 1: changes with social skills, repetitive behavior, speech, and nonverbal communication.

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Speaker 1: It's considered a neuro divergence. It simply means the brain

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Speaker 1: doesn't work the way it's supposed to. It works differently

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Speaker 1: from other brains for unexplained reasons. One in thirty one

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Speaker 1: children in the US affected, one in forty five adults.

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Speaker 1: We talk about this, there is a range that's not

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Speaker 1: just one type. Everybody has similar but different challenges. Some

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Speaker 1: people can speak, someone nonverbal, some are limited in how

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Speaker 1: they communicate. But it's called and that's why they call

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Speaker 1: it the spectrum. There is an autism spectrum.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I have within the spectrum too. You can have

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Speaker 2: Asperger syndrome. So there's just so many different variants, hundreds

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Speaker 2: I believe of what autism, what that umbrella and how

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Speaker 2: many people are impacted and affected. But yes, you're typically

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Speaker 2: diagnosed around the age of five. But as I mentioned,

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Speaker 2: because I do have a friend who started noticing when

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Speaker 2: their child was about two or three that he was

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Speaker 2: just not acting like his older siblings. And she was told,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of parents are told early intervention is important.

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Speaker 2: But that is a tremendous amount of costs. I mean

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Speaker 2: you're talking about just the emotional and that part of it,

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Speaker 2: but then there's a financial one as well, because most people, yes,

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Speaker 2: want to get their children immediately into intense early intervention

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Speaker 2: where you have a special school and you have a

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Speaker 2: special teacher, where your child is given one on one

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Speaker 2: directions that they can actually because a lot of kids

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Speaker 2: who are autistic are brilliant. Their brains work differently, but

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Speaker 2: some of them are highly functioning and savants in a.

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Speaker 3: Lot of ways.

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Speaker 2: But you have to have the right sort of training

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Speaker 2: and the right sort of focus and direction, and that

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Speaker 2: comes from specialized teachers who then cost a lot of money.

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Speaker 2: So yes, this is all this is a huge, huge,

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Speaker 2: huge issue on multiple levels.

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Speaker 1: A huge day if the government is going to tell

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Speaker 1: women to stop possibly taking Thailandol, and this is possibly

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Speaker 1: going to bring down autism numbers. I guess that's great,

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Speaker 1: But what is the president on the plane? What was it?

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Speaker 1: He said on the way back, in a suggestion that hey,

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Speaker 1: it's no harm, what the hell, might as well try it.

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Speaker 3: It seemed kind of flipping it boiled down to that basically.

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Speaker 2: But yes, he drops this bomb in the middle of

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Speaker 2: the Charlie Kirk Memorial service, and of course the second

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Speaker 2: he gets on the plane, reporters we knew this was.

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Speaker 3: Going to happen.

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Speaker 2: Excuse me, President Trump, what was that bomb that you

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Speaker 2: just dropped in the middle of the memorial service? So

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Speaker 2: they asked him specifically about it, because there had been

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Speaker 2: rumors at that point that the Trump administration and certainly

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Speaker 2: RFK Junior, were likely going to make this connection, this

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Speaker 2: correlation between a seed of menaphin, which is the ingredient,

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Speaker 2: the active ingredient in thailanol, and autism. And so he said,

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Speaker 2: I think it's a very big factor referring to a

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Speaker 2: seed of menaphin. And then he said this, if there's

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Speaker 2: a question, even if there's a question, you just do

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Speaker 2: it right. And that's the problem with a lot of

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Speaker 2: folks in the medical community because there are always repercussions

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Speaker 2: for making.

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Speaker 3: A bold statement like that.

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Speaker 2: It's not as if there's no harm, because truly, if

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Speaker 2: a pregnant woman has a high fever or massive inflammation,

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Speaker 2: some sort of an infection, she cannot take advil, she

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Speaker 2: cannot take a lot of these drugs that we would

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Speaker 2: take if we weren't pregnant. Her only option right now

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Speaker 2: is tailanol. And so if she can't take thailanol, now

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Speaker 2: there are increased risks to the fetus if you have

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Speaker 2: a high fever, if you have an infection, if you

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Speaker 2: have massive inflammation. And there is also emotional impacts they

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Speaker 2: say depression, anxiety, because you're in pain, you can't do

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Speaker 2: anything about it, and that can transfer to the fetus

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 4: So if there's a question, even if there's a question,

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Speaker 4: you just do it.

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Speaker 1: Right, spoken like a non doctor, right. Absolutely. That is

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Speaker 1: not how you make public health policy. That's any doctor

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Speaker 1: will tell you. You just don't know whim. The reason we're

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Speaker 1: here is because there's been study after study after study.

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Speaker 1: They show different things, different connections, but every one of

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Speaker 1: them the conclusion is the same. We don't know what causes.

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Speaker 2: Autism, and I think there is a consensus from everything

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Speaker 2: we've read that it's fairly well believed that there isn't

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Speaker 2: just one thing that's causing autism. There are and genetics

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Speaker 2: and what you inherit have a huge role, they believe

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Speaker 2: right now. So even in these studies, think about it,

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Speaker 2: you know, you get your head around. You can't really

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Speaker 2: have a controlled group because each child you're studying comes

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Speaker 2: from a different type of DNA, and they're inheriting different genetics,

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Speaker 2: and then they have different lifestyles, and their families eat

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Speaker 2: different things and drink different things, and are active, and

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Speaker 2: some are more active than others. So they did do

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Speaker 2: some studies with siblings to try and even it out,

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Speaker 2: but it's really hard to pinpoint such a broad spectrum

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Speaker 2: the disorder entails and then have all of these factors.

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Speaker 2: You can't say, oh, here's the one thing that's causing autism.

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Speaker 3: That makes zero sense.

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Speaker 1: Well, folks, if you think you're confused, now wait until

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Speaker 1: we read you the headlines, very recent headlines about what

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Speaker 1: the latest studies from some of the most prestigious medical

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Speaker 1: institutions in the world have said about autism and Thailand

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Speaker 1: all and get this, they don't all agree at all.

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Speaker 1: We continue now as of this recording, we are waiting,

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Speaker 1: folks on an announcement from the Open Office about autism.

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Speaker 1: The President and the RK Jr. The HHS Secretary promise

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Speaker 1: several months back that we are going to figure out

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Speaker 1: have an answer for autism by September, and here we are.

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Speaker 1: They're going to make an announcement. Robes. The President pretty

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Speaker 1: viewed it kind of out of nowhere. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: if that was planned or not.

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Speaker 3: I don't think he was in the prompter.

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Speaker 1: I was he might have been planned in his own head.

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Speaker 1: But yes, said there's gonna be I keep forgetting the word.

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Speaker 1: We have an answer. Yes, we have an answer for autism,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to get that answer this afternoon. We

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Speaker 1: just decided to jump on and give you a quick

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Speaker 1: preview here because some of the studies Robes say this

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Speaker 1: and I quote headline. Mount Sinai study supports evidence that

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Speaker 1: prenatal aceta metaphin use may be linked to increase risk

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Speaker 1: of autism and ADHD. Is that not clear as day? Yes,

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Speaker 1: when you read the headline, then you have to get

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Speaker 1: into some of the details. It said. Yes, their researchers

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Speaker 1: found that exposure to aceda metaphon talenol may increase the

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Speaker 1: risk of disorders like autism spectrum. However, they say in

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Speaker 1: the same article, while the study does not show it

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Speaker 1: directly causes neural developmental disorders, the research team's finding strengthen

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Speaker 1: the evidence for a connection and raise concerns about current

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Speaker 1: clinical practices. They go on to just call for cautious

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Speaker 1: time limited use of aceta metaphine during pregnancy until more

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Speaker 1: answers can be found. That sounds like we just don't

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Speaker 1: know will be cautious, Ask your doctor. But they headlines

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Speaker 1: and there are studies out there that say that there

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Speaker 1: is a link. They find the connection or an increase

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Speaker 1: of some kind.

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Speaker 2: Harvard School of Public Health, how about this for a headline,

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Speaker 2: using aceta metaphine during pregnancy may increase children's autism and

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Speaker 2: ADHD risk.

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Speaker 1: That's got to be confusing, right, I mean Harvard, And

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Speaker 1: that's the headline from Harvard.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And Harvard goes on to say we recommend judicious

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Speaker 2: aceta metaphine use, lowest effective dose, shortest duration under medical

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Speaker 2: guidance tailored to individual risk benefit assessments rather than a

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Speaker 2: broad limitation. Look, I don't know what the current guidelines are.

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Speaker 2: I just know from when I was pregnant, and granted

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Speaker 2: that it was I guess nineteen years ago was my

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Speaker 2: last pregnancy, but I knew my doctors told me you

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Speaker 2: aren't supposed to be taking anything unless you absolutely need to.

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Speaker 2: It's just you don't get the liberal whatever you want

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Speaker 2: to take to make yourself feel better in the moment,

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Speaker 2: including a glass of wine, like.

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Speaker 3: You know, it was the strictest of guidelines.

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Speaker 2: And look, when you're growing this human inside of you,

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Speaker 2: you recognize you have to do things differently and you

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Speaker 2: have to be thinking of your child first. But so

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Speaker 2: just seeing a headline like this, even if now other

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Speaker 2: doctors refute it and say this is not likely, this

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Speaker 2: is not do you actually think you're gonna feel totally

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Speaker 2: okay popping a til and all Now that this is

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Speaker 2: all being aired out out of an abundance of caution,

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Speaker 2: I would say I probably would suffer through. And I

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Speaker 2: had headaches and it was tough, it was hard. I

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Speaker 2: had to actually I couldn't drink coffee, so I had

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Speaker 2: to go through caffeine withdrawal and I had to deal

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Speaker 2: with the headaches.

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Speaker 3: So even if I thought about.

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Speaker 2: Taking tile and all, because you're like, oh, you can

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Speaker 2: take tilt all. I would probably not do it just

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Speaker 2: in case.

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Speaker 1: But to your point earlier as well, that we heard

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Speaker 1: a doctor mentioned that comes with risks as well to

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Speaker 1: telling women who are in pain not to take it.

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Speaker 2: Now, I'm stressed, now, I'm angry, now, I'm frustrated. Now

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Speaker 2: if any other thing happens on top of my pain, now,

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Speaker 2: I'm not handling things well emotionally, and that does transfer

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Speaker 2: to your child.

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Speaker 1: Johns Hopkins, same thing, headline, taking thailand al during pregnancy

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Speaker 1: associated with elevated risks for autism. Those are headlines for

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Speaker 1: these big names. Now they go on to say the

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Speaker 1: researcher points out that although the study found a consistent

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Speaker 1: association between biomarkers of aceta metaphant and it's wh blah

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Speaker 1: blah blah metapic in cord blood, it said it should

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Speaker 1: not be interpreted that thailanol use causes these disorders. So

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Speaker 1: the headline says one thing, thailand all during pregnancy associated

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Speaker 1: with elevated risk. Then they go down and say it

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Speaker 1: should not be interpreted that taileran all use causes these disorders.

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Speaker 1: It's just confusing.

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Speaker 2: It's incredibly, incredibly confusing, especially then when you look at

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Speaker 2: the largest study out there, funded by the National Institutes

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Speaker 2: of Health, A new study from JAMMA research shows no

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Speaker 2: casual link between thailanol and autism. A new study from

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Speaker 2: JAMMA found that using a set of menaphin, the active

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Speaker 2: ingredient in thailenol, during pregnancy, was not associated with increased

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Speaker 2: risk of autism, ADHD, or intellectual disability in children. So

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Speaker 2: now you have a completely opposite headline by a incredibly

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Speaker 2: well regarded organization and funded by the National Institutes of

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Speaker 2: Health saying the exact opposite of what we just heard.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I've been what are the words causation, correlation, association,

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Speaker 1: all these things. Correlation versus causation. Correlation just means the

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Speaker 1: two things are existing and they're in some way connected,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean that one causes the correlation versus causation.

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Speaker 1: Causation directly means this thing causes that thing, correct, And

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Speaker 1: that's the difference. I saw a great example, and I'm

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Speaker 1: so sorry I can't give them credit for it. Between

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Speaker 1: causation and correlation. It's silly, but it's simple. The sun

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Speaker 1: hot day, the sun is beaming down on you, and

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Speaker 1: you eating ice cream, the sun comes down on you

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Speaker 1: and you get sunburn. The sun comes down, it melts

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Speaker 1: the ice cream.

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Speaker 3: That's causation.

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Speaker 1: The sun directly calls the ice cream to melt, directly

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Speaker 1: cause you to get sunburned. But just because your sunburn,

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Speaker 1: that doesn't mean your ice cream is gonna melt. That's correlation. Wow,

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Speaker 1: caud it was so interesting how they put that two

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Speaker 1: things are related. They both exist under these same conditions.

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Speaker 1: But the ice cream melting didn't cause your sunburn, and

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Speaker 1: the sunburn didn't cause ice cream and melt. Even though

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Speaker 1: they're correlated based on the environment, that actually.

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Speaker 3: Is a helpful way to explain the difference.

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Speaker 1: God, I want to give them credit. Whoever put that out,

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Speaker 1: thank you. I'm sorry I cannot remember, but that's how

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Speaker 1: they explained and that made perfect sense to me.

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Speaker 3: That absolutely does.

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Speaker 2: And yet still just this headline alone will instill fear

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Speaker 2: in women who are pregnant period at the.

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Speaker 1: Bot where's the entail and all put out a statement

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Speaker 1: and they have a big thing on their website as well,

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Speaker 1: trying to explain things.

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Speaker 2: Yes, they write on their website, we understand the recent

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Speaker 2: media coverage you're reading may cause concern or lead to questions.

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Speaker 2: We want to make sure you have the answers. So

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Speaker 2: they say this, here is what we can tell you.

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Speaker 2: Credible independent scientific data continues to show no proven link

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Speaker 2: between taking acid of metaphine and autism. Medical and public

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Speaker 2: health organizations agree, and then they say this includes the

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Speaker 2: American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, the Society for Maternal

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Speaker 2: Fetal Medicine, Autism Science Foundation, and the US Food and

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Speaker 2: Drug Administration, which that may change given this new headline

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Speaker 2: and these new recommendations that we make be getting from

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Speaker 2: RFK Junior, who is in charge of AHHS, and certainly

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Speaker 2: the FDA is under that umbrella. So for now that

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Speaker 2: holds true. But there and I appreciate this. They say,

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Speaker 2: our best advice talk to your healthcare professional before taking

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Speaker 2: or administering acet of metaphine period.

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Speaker 4: And that makes sense. I mean, that's and it should

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Speaker 4: be on.

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Speaker 3: A case by case basis. It should be sure.

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Speaker 2: I think it's fair to say you should limit the

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Speaker 2: time on all you're taking or anything you're taking, and

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Speaker 2: you have to be careful about what you eat and

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Speaker 2: what you drink and how much you exercise.

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Speaker 3: In all of that. When you're pregnant.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, other to your point about other factors, people overweight,

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Speaker 1: folks have different factors that factor into some of this.

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Speaker 1: They were saying age could factor into some of this.

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Speaker 3: That's huge.

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Speaker 2: I you know, it's one of those when you're pregnant

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Speaker 2: over the age of thirty five, you're considered a geriatric

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Speaker 2: pregnant woman, which seems silly, but it's true in terms

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Speaker 2: of the viability and just the overall health of your eggs.

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Speaker 2: And they say once you go over that age, every

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Speaker 2: year your risk of a lot of things increases, including autism,

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Speaker 2: and so age is a huge factor.

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Speaker 1: Well, folks, we are keeping an eye on this one today.

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Speaker 1: Just wanted to preview and let you know what's out

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Speaker 1: there before you as you get prepared to hear what's coming.

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Speaker 1: And we will be watching and we will certainly update

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Speaker 1: you again again. Top right corner of your Apple podcast

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Speaker 1: app on our show page, a little button says follow

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Speaker 1: Just click that you can get our updates coming right

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Speaker 1: to you. And there have been a lot of them

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Speaker 1: that we'll check in with you again, but for now

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Speaker 1: I'm TJ's home, so on behalf of my No you

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Speaker 1: want to jump again, what you say your name.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, I thought maybe you kind of messed

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Speaker 2: up your name, so I was I was laughing at you.

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Speaker 2: I thought you kind of slurred your TJ home, so

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Speaker 2: I was just laughing at you.

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Speaker 3: I didn't want to jump in.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to recover that. It's just been a rough weekend.

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Speaker 1: You weren't here and I was a mess.

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Speaker 4: All right, so on behalf of TJ Holmes.

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Speaker 3: I'm Amy Roboch. We will talk to you again soon