Speaker 1: Hey, bright Side, besties, Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 2: Today on the bright Side, we're talking to mother Untitled
Speaker 2: founder and CEO, Neja Rouche. She's redefining stay at home
Speaker 2: motherhood with her revolutionary digital community. It's Wednesday, May First.
Speaker 2: I'm Danielle Robe.
Speaker 3: And I'm Simone Boyce and this is the bright Side
Speaker 3: from Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 1: Happy Wednesday.
Speaker 2: You know, Simone, yesterday we were talking about tennis because
Speaker 2: we were key king about Zendeia's new film, Challengers and
Speaker 2: all of her fabulous tennis inspired fashion.
Speaker 3: I am ready for my country club era. I just
Speaker 3: want to put it out there right now. Catch me
Speaker 3: at the club, y'all.
Speaker 2: I'm ready to see you in all of your tennis
Speaker 2: fashion too. Tennis was my quarantine sport and I haven't
Speaker 2: picked up my racket since. But my mom got me
Speaker 2: into pickle and I think that the next step of
Speaker 2: this is padel. Have you heard of this padel? What
Speaker 2: is It's the fastest growing racket sport in the world.
Speaker 2: It's sort of like a mixture between tennis and squash,
Speaker 2: and it looks like a pickle court, but you have
Speaker 2: glass walls around you. It's really really popular in Spain.
Speaker 2: I think it's like the biggest sport after soccer in Spain,
Speaker 2: and now America is catching on.
Speaker 4: Have you played Padel?
Speaker 1: No, I haven't played.
Speaker 2: I just keep hearing about it, and I feel like
Speaker 2: maybe it's a good date spot now. I always see
Speaker 2: in movies people do like running clubs, and it just
Speaker 2: seems really hard to talk and run at the same time.
Speaker 2: I feel like Pickle or Padel I have a much
Speaker 2: better shot at meeting a man.
Speaker 3: I think you might be right. I mean, these racket
Speaker 3: sports are all over my feet all the time. It
Speaker 3: seems like all of them across the board are exploding
Speaker 3: in popularity, and it's a really interesting question to ask why.
Speaker 3: Why do you think that is?
Speaker 1: I think it all started during COVID.
Speaker 2: It was a game that people were really playing because
Speaker 2: it took up less space than tennis, Like not everybody
Speaker 2: had access to a tennis court. You can just pick
Speaker 2: up a paddle quickly play, and then people fell in
Speaker 2: love with it. I also think it's accessible for all levels,
Speaker 2: Like my mom was incredible and I was not so good,
Speaker 2: and we could still play together even though she would yell.
Speaker 1: At me sometimes get the ball. Do you have an idea?
Speaker 4: What do you think. I think it's that.
Speaker 3: I also think maybe I'm just getting older and my
Speaker 3: friends are getting into boomer sports. Maybe that's like, maybe
Speaker 3: we're just at that phase in life.
Speaker 2: You know, my mom's going to be so mad at
Speaker 2: you for calling it a boomer sport.
Speaker 3: Listen, I don't make up these terms. Okay, so don't
Speaker 3: come for me, Deanna. But I do love that millennials,
Speaker 3: elder millennials are seeking out community in this way. I
Speaker 3: think it's a really healthy way to build community. And
Speaker 3: like you said, you might meet the love of your
Speaker 3: life on a padel court. Have you thought about who
Speaker 3: would be on your pickle celebrity draft team, like your
Speaker 3: ideal celebrities to play a pickle with?
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously I'm having an all women team offense
Speaker 2: to the men, but women are just like better at
Speaker 2: most things. So can I draft our executive producer Rees Weatherspoon.
Speaker 2: Can she be Team Haden?
Speaker 4: Yes, one hundred percent. I feel like she plays right.
Speaker 2: I kind of want like a Hello Sunshine pickleball or
Speaker 2: Podel squad.
Speaker 4: Wait, this is genius.
Speaker 3: We need to talk to the powers that be because
Speaker 3: I see a lot of alignment here. I see a
Speaker 3: lot of synergy here. Another thing that I'm seeing all
Speaker 3: over my social media right now is this list of
Speaker 3: phrases that quote successful women use in the workplace. This
Speaker 3: is an article that I came across by Every Girl.
Speaker 3: And you know, we've talked about on this show how
Speaker 3: we've learned to advocate for ourselves over the years at
Speaker 3: work and what's worked for us and what hasn't worked
Speaker 3: for us in our careers. But I thought it was
Speaker 3: interesting that they actually put together this list of phrases,
Speaker 3: and they organize them in these categories that make it
Speaker 3: a little easier to understand. So some phrases are organized
Speaker 3: by ways to express either disagreement or agreement with people
Speaker 3: that you work with. Some of these phrases help you
Speaker 3: manage conflict better, and then some of these help you
Speaker 3: advocate for yourself.
Speaker 4: So I'm going to read a few of them that
Speaker 4: stood out to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to know which ones you liked.
Speaker 3: Here's one that I really like. They said, I don't
Speaker 3: see it this way, and here's why. This is one
Speaker 3: that empowers us to share our opinions even when they
Speaker 3: differ from other opinions in the room. And then you
Speaker 3: can kind of back that up with concrete reasons with evidence.
Speaker 3: I think that's always important. Thanks for your patience. I
Speaker 3: really like this one whenever you're delayed, or you're running late,
Speaker 3: or you're late turning in an assignment or something, because
Speaker 3: that helps us move away from apologizing unnecessarily. M hm.
Speaker 1: You know what's so funny.
Speaker 2: I'm going to use a version of this or disagree
Speaker 2: to agree because I thought that this article was full
Speaker 2: of terrible advice. I like that it gave us shortcuts
Speaker 2: because I think it's really hard to think on this
Speaker 2: spot when you feel shocked or you're uncomfortable or you
Speaker 2: don't know what to say at work. But I don't
Speaker 2: like the phrases that they shared. One of them was
Speaker 2: I deserve a raise.
Speaker 5: No one, absolutely, nobody who has been in the workforce
Speaker 5: is going to agree that you walk into your boss's
Speaker 5: office and say I deserve a raise and that works
Speaker 5: like that is terrible advice.
Speaker 3: I don't think they're saying that you walk in and
Speaker 3: just say I deserve a raise. I think that that
Speaker 3: is the starting point for the conversation, I deserve a raise,
Speaker 3: and here's why.
Speaker 4: You need to provide concrete reasons as to why saying you.
Speaker 2: Deserve something at work or in our relationship is a
Speaker 2: sure fire away for people to feel like you don't
Speaker 2: deserve something. It's just a terrible communication tactic.
Speaker 4: Oh, I actually disagree.
Speaker 3: I think you're advocating for yourself if you state your
Speaker 3: desires clearly like that.
Speaker 2: I think it's better to ask a question to say
Speaker 2: because you have to put it back on them, so
Speaker 2: you can say, what would it look like or what
Speaker 2: do I need to do to receive a ten percent
Speaker 2: raise by the end of the year. You're letting them
Speaker 2: know where you'd like to get and how they can
Speaker 2: help you get there, and then if you don't get there,
Speaker 2: you know that you need to make a shift.
Speaker 3: I think that's great advice too. I just think that's
Speaker 3: earlier on in the process. When you walk in and
Speaker 3: say I deserve a raise, you're already you've already asked
Speaker 3: the questions to get yourself there, and you're you already
Speaker 3: have the concrete reasons as to why you've earned it.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think if you have to go in and say
Speaker 2: I deserve it, you're you're already lost. There was also
Speaker 2: one more that stood out to me. They said, I
Speaker 2: appreciate you taking the time to chat today. And I
Speaker 2: actually had a mentor to share this with me. He
Speaker 2: said that it's better to say I'm grateful for the
Speaker 2: opportunity to connect, or I'm grateful for the opportunity to meet,
Speaker 2: because it puts you more on an even playing field.
Speaker 2: It's mutual versus sounding eager.
Speaker 4: Yeah that's a good one too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just thought this whole list was eager, beaver.
Speaker 4: So I get that.
Speaker 3: I hear that when I take a step back, can
Speaker 3: think about the intention behind this article or the purpose
Speaker 3: behind this article. I think it is trying to reach
Speaker 3: women who have had a hard time advocating for themselves
Speaker 3: in the workplace. And we have a tendency to use
Speaker 3: more tentative language in the workplace than men, and it's
Speaker 3: often because we feel like we have to cater to
Speaker 3: fragile egos that exist in positions of power in the workforce.
Speaker 3: And it's also because women are often punished for going
Speaker 3: against that stereotype of being the warm, nurturing woman SNAs
Speaker 3: for some moan, that's really that likability penalty that we've
Speaker 3: talked about. So it's unfortunate that we even have to
Speaker 3: discuss this, But I appreciate the intent behind this piece.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: I think it's great to have keywords or phrases in
Speaker 2: your pocket because it's really hard to come up with
Speaker 2: it on the spot. And I also want to be
Speaker 2: really clear that I have learned these phrases over the
Speaker 2: last ten twelve years by saying all of the wrong
Speaker 2: things for years and really having to navigate those strange waters.
Speaker 3: Do you feel like you've become more assertive over the
Speaker 3: course of your career.
Speaker 1: Yes, And I figured out exactly why.
Speaker 2: I interviewed a child psychologist, doctor Eliza Pressman, and I
Speaker 2: asked her how you raise a confident kid, and she said,
Speaker 2: competence breeds confidence. Doing things well or just doing them
Speaker 2: at all, even if you're doing them poorly, breeds confidence.
Speaker 2: And so I can very distinctly say that at the
Speaker 2: beginning of my career I didn't have that confidence because
Speaker 2: I wasn't practiced, I didn't have the experience, and I
Speaker 2: honestly didn't have the skill set to really back it up.
Speaker 2: And now eleven years later, I walk into a room
Speaker 2: and I know that I'm competent, and so I feel confident.
Speaker 4: I like that a lot competence breeds confidence.
Speaker 3: You know. It's the words of someone else recently made
Speaker 3: me realize how assertive I've become. Tell me, actually, someone
Speaker 3: that we work with I had worked with her in
Speaker 3: the past about I want to say, five years ago,
Speaker 3: and when we started working together in this environment, she
Speaker 3: was like, Wow, I didn't realize you were that assertive.
Speaker 3: I've never seen this side of you whenever I've been
Speaker 3: standing up for my ideas or pitching ideas in our
Speaker 3: in our office. And I was like, huh, that's so interesting,
Speaker 3: and it made me realize I probably have become a
Speaker 3: lot more assertive in the five years that we haven't
Speaker 3: worked together, But it was interesting to me that someone
Speaker 3: else picked up on that growth.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, first of all, kudos to you. That's like,
Speaker 2: it's nice to recognize that. And also, you can say
Speaker 2: anything you want, you just have to say it with
Speaker 2: some tact. And that's also something that I've learned by
Speaker 2: making mistakes at work.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I know I talk about therapy a lot on this podcast,
Speaker 2: but therapy has made me a better communicator in life,
Speaker 2: and so I do feel like it's given me some
Speaker 2: words in a vocabulary to deal with conflict.
Speaker 3: Also, all right, we're gonna pivot to a different kind
Speaker 3: of conflict now tell me. So. People online are posing
Speaker 3: this hypothetical question, and this whole trend has just been
Speaker 3: cracking me up. Here's the question, would you rather be
Speaker 3: trapped in the woods with a man or a bear?
Speaker 2: I don't understand this whole equip like, obviously a man.
Speaker 1: Why would I ever want to be trapped with a bear?
Speaker 4: I think that I.
Speaker 3: Think that women are just using this as an opportunity
Speaker 3: to say, like, I've had encounters with men where I
Speaker 3: don't feel safe, and this is kind of like a funny,
Speaker 3: lighthearted way to go around having to go about having
Speaker 3: that conversation.
Speaker 1: But I totally agree with would you who would you
Speaker 1: rather be trapped to?
Speaker 3: With it?
Speaker 4: I'd rather be trapped with a man. For sure. I
Speaker 4: can take any man. I'm confident I have.
Speaker 3: I have a fault, maybe a false sense of confidence
Speaker 3: that I can take any man. When I solo traveled,
Speaker 3: nobody he really tried me because I'm six feet tall,
Speaker 3: So like I just maybe it's a false sense of confidence.
Speaker 3: But I walk through the world thinking that I can
Speaker 3: take down to any man anytime that I want.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you absolutely can.
Speaker 2: The funniest to me is when women are asking their
Speaker 2: husbands would you rather be stuck in the in the
Speaker 2: woods with a manner of bear? And then the husband's
Speaker 2: pick a bear? That to me is crazy.
Speaker 3: Wait, I should I should ask my husband to answer
Speaker 3: for this question. Now I don't think he's home. Shoot, okay,
Speaker 3: I'm going to ask him that though, because that's hilarious.
Speaker 1: Please get back to us.
Speaker 4: After the break.
Speaker 3: We're talking career pauses and pivots with Neha Rush.
Speaker 1: Stay with us.
Speaker 4: All right.
Speaker 2: Today we are changing the narrative around stay at home moms.
Speaker 4: Danielle.
Speaker 3: So many women, including myself, at one point, fear starting
Speaker 3: a family will be a career ender. Right.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: I used to think if I don't make it quote
Speaker 2: unquote by thirty, it's over for me because I want
Speaker 2: a family one day, and how will I ever have time.
Speaker 3: This dang thirty milestone bothers me because I feel like
Speaker 3: everything opens up after thirty.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The best part is you wake up at thirty and
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, I'm the same person as I was yesterday.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I actually care less about what people think. Yeah,
Speaker 3: my goals are clear. Well, our guest today is doing
Speaker 3: something that I believe no one else out there is doing,
Speaker 3: starting a conversation that is long overdue. She's changing the
Speaker 3: cultural conversation around stay at home motherhood. She's the founder
Speaker 3: of mother Untitled and she's here to talk about career pauses,
Speaker 3: motherhood and what we gain by taking a step away
Speaker 3: from work. Her name is Naha Rouche and we are
Speaker 3: so excited to have her here today.
Speaker 1: On the bright side, Nayh, welcome to the show. I'm
Speaker 1: so happy to be here. Thank you both.
Speaker 2: How do you explain mother Untitled to people who haven't
Speaker 2: heard of it yet?
Speaker 6: I really explain it as the first resource to empower
Speaker 6: women on career pauses or down shifts with a sense
Speaker 6: of confidence and clarity, support to walk through it and
Speaker 6: come out the other side. Connected to possibility. The community
Speaker 6: itself is a cohort of ambitious women in any spectrum
Speaker 6: of the gray area between stay home and working mother
Speaker 6: So some of them are on full pause, some of
Speaker 6: them have downshifted to part time work.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's really comprehensive. You have a weekly newsletter,
Speaker 2: a website with tons of resources for moms, like guides
Speaker 2: for how to leave or return to work. There's a
Speaker 2: directory of mental health and career experts. There's even a
Speaker 2: jobs board to help women find flexible work.
Speaker 4: Okay, I think we need to rewind a little bit.
Speaker 3: So will you take us back to twenty seventeen, seven
Speaker 3: years ago when you created this community mother untitled Why
Speaker 3: did you feel called to launch this?
Speaker 6: I had put in a decade in brand strategy, I'd
Speaker 6: gone to business school. I really believed that my career
Speaker 6: was thriving and it was ongoing, and I had my
Speaker 6: first child, and I was sitting in a white rocking
Speaker 6: chair thinking, oh, like finally, And I think it was
Speaker 6: this sense of not having to try so hard. At
Speaker 6: that point, I downshifted into part time work and eventually
Speaker 6: would pause. But I didn't downshift to make room for
Speaker 6: motherhood because I thought it was a better choice for him.
Speaker 1: I wanted more of that for me.
Speaker 6: And so then I was walking around the flat Iron
Speaker 6: six months in, and I was meeting all these incredible
Speaker 6: women who were making their own similar pauses and downshifts,
Speaker 6: and they were starting their own ventures, and none of
Speaker 6: it matched the caricature that we were being fed about
Speaker 6: this day at home parent. And meanwhile, mid I had
Speaker 6: my first child at the height of the Lenan movement
Speaker 6: and the girl Boss era, so the idea of women
Speaker 6: choosing to pause or downshift felt really antithetical to that,
Speaker 6: and so the women I were meeting felt a shame
Speaker 6: and stigma about it. And part of it is that
Speaker 6: there was no platform representing them as modern, empowered women
Speaker 6: who still had decades of career ahead of them. So
Speaker 6: I started planting the seeds for the platform in January
Speaker 6: of twenty seventeen.
Speaker 3: Nayhow when I was in my twenties, I was one
Speaker 3: of those women who thought my career as a broadcaster
Speaker 3: is going to be over when I become a mom.
Speaker 3: I made this really big decision to just completely walk
Speaker 3: away from my job and not return from maternity leave.
Speaker 3: So whereas yours was a downshift, mine was a true
Speaker 3: like hard stop. And then I found you and mother untitled,
Speaker 3: and I realized I wasn't alone when I quit my job,
Speaker 3: and your community has offered me so much belonging in
Speaker 3: peace and support. But I'm curious, what are some of
Speaker 3: the limiting beliefs that you had to let go of
Speaker 3: in order to walk away from your career, at least
Speaker 3: for a time.
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, I think it's universal, and you're speaking
Speaker 6: to it, this idea of we've gotten so much worth
Speaker 6: and so much identity from our careers. Yes, right, And
Speaker 6: I think whether you initially downshift and then eventually pause,
Speaker 6: or you fully pause right away, the question that I
Speaker 6: hear is how do you answer the question?
Speaker 4: What do you do?
Speaker 1: I remember the first.
Speaker 6: Time someone asked me that, this woman asked me, and
Speaker 6: it was so well intended, but I every part of
Speaker 6: me shriveled inside and I word vomited on her, and
Speaker 6: I realized that I'd had all these neat, little identifiers
Speaker 6: about who I was and what I cared about in
Speaker 6: my background, and that I'd worked hard. And then suddenly
Speaker 6: when you say stay at home mom, or I'm focused
Speaker 6: on family life. It still feels like in a culture
Speaker 6: that has tied so much of our ideas of ambition,
Speaker 6: our ideas of worth, our ideas of productivity to career progression,
Speaker 6: when you step away from that, you have to re
Speaker 6: architect what that means for you.
Speaker 3: Especially because of the whole leaning era in which a
Speaker 3: lot of us came up. I mean, that was the
Speaker 3: messaging that your word, your value, is attached to your
Speaker 3: career and that becomes your whole identity.
Speaker 6: Yes, and I think it dates further back. So I
Speaker 6: think if we look way back when the second wave
Speaker 6: of feminism was happening, we left the women who were
Speaker 6: choosing to focus on family life with this nineteen seventies
Speaker 6: archetype right of defending tradition, and we kept doing the
Speaker 6: work to move forward the really.
Speaker 1: Strong images of women's capacity in.
Speaker 6: The workforce, and we left the woman who was choosing
Speaker 6: to focus on the house for a period of time
Speaker 6: with the character of a June Cleaver, and we never
Speaker 6: really fixed that powercast. I mean, I think it crescendoed
Speaker 6: with the Lenan movement and with the millennial generation like you,
Speaker 6: Simone and me that were fed this idea of we
Speaker 6: can do this. But then equally, we have huge sense
Speaker 6: of identity that we glean from family life too, and
Speaker 6: those two things started to butt up against each other.
Speaker 6: And I think we were sitting at that moment now
Speaker 6: of great sort of re examination.
Speaker 2: You're not alone in grappling with this decision to pause
Speaker 2: or to reduce outside work. Can you help define the
Speaker 2: scale for us how many women are making the same decision.
Speaker 6: So we commissioned a survey last year. It's called American
Speaker 6: Mothers un Pause, and so the best data that came
Speaker 6: out of it is that one in three women are
Speaker 6: considering a pause in the next two years, one in
Speaker 6: two are considering a downshift.
Speaker 1: And why that's so important.
Speaker 6: Is because it reminds us all that we are ever evolving.
Speaker 6: We are more alike than we are different. And when
Speaker 6: we realize that actually we're all this population that are
Speaker 6: trying to make the best choice for right now, and
Speaker 6: if we can lift the shame and stigma about any
Speaker 6: one choice, we allow women to make the right choice
Speaker 6: for right now without penalty on the other side, And that,
Speaker 6: in essence is the movement of mother untitled. It's not
Speaker 6: to say that stay at home motherhood or career breaks
Speaker 6: for caregiving are the is the right choice. It's to
Speaker 6: say that women are still contributing, they are still growing,
Speaker 6: that many women are actually having to make this choice
Speaker 6: or wanting to make this choice at any time, And
Speaker 6: so how can we recognize and dignify that work so
Speaker 6: that they're able to return when and if they want to.
Speaker 6: When you say women are still contributing, what do you mean?
Speaker 6: I think that for too long. The unbeaid labor on
Speaker 6: the home was just kind of assumed as nothing tasks,
Speaker 6: something that's easily outsourced or easily done by anyone and everyone.
Speaker 6: But I think at a base level, contributing means valuing
Speaker 6: the care work that is being done in the home
Speaker 6: so that that parent can also be able to say
Speaker 6: I need support because no one should have to work
Speaker 6: twenty four to seven. And our research also shows us
Speaker 6: that actually one in three women have never gotten any assistance,
Speaker 6: including family help, so they're doing this on their own.
Speaker 6: And a lot of it, anecdotally when I've interviewed women,
Speaker 6: is because they feel like if they're not working for pay,
Speaker 6: they don't deserve help or support. It is such a
Speaker 6: false belief, and what it does is it shuts her
Speaker 6: off from being the supported caregiver she deserves to be.
Speaker 6: It shuts her off from community, it shuts her off
Speaker 6: from mental health opportunities, and it shuts her off from
Speaker 6: the ability to really enjoy the stage of life like
Speaker 6: she deserves to.
Speaker 3: You've really started a discussion around that, around judgment, around
Speaker 3: privilege in career pausing. That can be a tricky territory
Speaker 3: to navigate. What kind of conversation. Are you seeing on
Speaker 3: the platform around that.
Speaker 6: I'm so glad you asked, because I think one of
Speaker 6: the limiting beliefs in tropes is that stay at home
Speaker 6: motherhood is a luxury. What we know is the decision
Speaker 6: to pause is so nuanced, and actually one in three
Speaker 6: parents choose to pause right now because of the cost
Speaker 6: of caregiving. Right we know the cost or childcare is astronomical,
Speaker 6: and so it's not a luxury on either side.
Speaker 1: It's a privilege to get to choose.
Speaker 6: And I think if we can embrace that, we start
Speaker 6: to stop weaponizing privilege and really just start to think systemically.
Speaker 2: About how to support all choices. Do you know the
Speaker 2: percentage of fathers that choose to pause versus mothers.
Speaker 1: It's rising, as you can imagine.
Speaker 6: It's one in five as of this year, according to Indeed,
Speaker 6: and that number seems to be trending upward. As much
Speaker 6: as I get frustrated now we're suddenly evaluing on paid
Speaker 6: labor as soon as the number starts to take up
Speaker 6: word when men pause for on paid labor, I think
Speaker 6: there's a real opportunity when stay at home parenting becomes
Speaker 6: less gendered and we can look at it as not
Speaker 6: a women's issue, but a human issue.
Speaker 2: So I read that thirty percent of partnerships split over
Speaker 2: household and childcare duties. It's a huge point of contention.
Speaker 2: I'm so curious how you and your partner personally share
Speaker 2: the responsibilities in your house.
Speaker 6: My partner and I had very deliberate conversations from very
Speaker 6: early on, and I encourage you know, in the first
Speaker 6: section of my book, The Power Pause really centered on
Speaker 6: how to plan and how to plan with your partner
Speaker 6: in the case of a two parent household, because it's
Speaker 6: so important that both partners understand the value that you're contributing.
Speaker 6: And think about if we're each putting in a workday
Speaker 6: right from nine to five, and I'm at home when
Speaker 6: he came home his quote unquote work Dan did and
Speaker 6: so did mine, and from that point on, we're sharing
Speaker 6: the household labor, right. I don't always think it was
Speaker 6: fifty to fifty. I think it was fair and equitable,
Speaker 6: and I think it was an ongoing conversation. We had
Speaker 6: really deliberate conversations about where he could help because he
Speaker 6: wasn't able to always be home, so he did all
Speaker 6: of the paperwork, so he filled out the doctor's forms
Speaker 6: because he was always in front of a computer and
Speaker 6: I was on the playground, and we.
Speaker 1: Recalibrate every year.
Speaker 6: I think it's important to also take into account that
Speaker 6: when we sit down at the top of the year,
Speaker 6: every January, we have our money meeting, and we will
Speaker 6: look at the year behind us, We'll look at a
Speaker 6: variety of different budget allocations and figure out, Okay, what
Speaker 6: part did we do well on, and we make those
Speaker 6: decisions jointly. And I think it's so important that even
Speaker 6: though he was the one working for pay, we made
Speaker 6: those decisions together. We budgeted together, and I did not
Speaker 6: get a lesser budget because I was not working for pay.
Speaker 6: I think he's doing a lot more now than I am, candidly,
Speaker 6: and I think that's part of this whole conversation, is
Speaker 6: that it's ever shifting.
Speaker 4: That's exactly where we're at right now.
Speaker 3: Right now, my husband is taking care of the lion's
Speaker 3: share of caregiving responsibilities, and that is I think that's
Speaker 3: the most important thing that I've learned in my four
Speaker 3: years thus far as a parent, is the need for
Speaker 3: both of us to be flexible and that all of
Speaker 3: this comes in seasons. Right now, he is the one
Speaker 3: who is keeping stuff together at home and I'm out
Speaker 3: at work. But that might change, you know, in the
Speaker 3: next three to six months. And so I think when
Speaker 3: you view it temporarily and not thinking like, oh, this
Speaker 3: is our life now, this is going to be our
Speaker 3: life forever, but just holding it a bit more loosely,
Speaker 3: I think that allows you to extend more grace to
Speaker 3: your partner too. Yeah.
Speaker 6: I always think the phrase right now helps, so you
Speaker 6: can prioritize what's important for right now and sort of
Speaker 6: recalibrate as you go.
Speaker 4: Do you have a vision for how you want things
Speaker 4: to look?
Speaker 2: I would like my husband to do everything. No, I'm kidding. No,
Speaker 2: I would like an equitable partnership.
Speaker 1: But I think.
Speaker 2: It seems when I interview people, when I hear people
Speaker 2: like you talk about it, that flexibility is really the key.
Speaker 4: When you interview men on dates, you mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when I interview men on dates, that's good exactly.
Speaker 6: I will tell you there were two things I took
Speaker 6: into account when I married my husband. One, he was
Speaker 6: a really fantastic cook. He's a doer, He's just a door.
Speaker 6: I like to think of myself. I'm a good thinker.
Speaker 6: I like to plan and strategize and overthink our problems,
Speaker 6: and he's better at just getting stuff done. But he
Speaker 6: also had a really short last name. As soon as
Speaker 6: I met him, I was like, are you c H
Speaker 6: versus y Lurker, which was my last name?
Speaker 1: And I was like, I'm you. You check the box.
Speaker 6: You're going to cook for our family and it's going
Speaker 6: to be the world's shortest last name.
Speaker 2: I was just thinking the other day, like, what if
Speaker 2: I meet somebody and I love them and I hate
Speaker 2: their last name, don't do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't have to change the name though, folks, No.
Speaker 1: But like your kids that I don't know.
Speaker 2: I guess there's a whole conversation to be had whether
Speaker 2: we want to keep doing this. Yeh, that's like patriarchal lineage.
Speaker 2: But another podcast.
Speaker 3: I'm of the opinion that I've been simone Voice for
Speaker 3: I was like twenty three when I got married. I
Speaker 3: was Simone Boys for twenty three years. Why do I
Speaker 3: need to change names when it's no longer This like
Speaker 3: something to mark this exchange of like feudal territories.
Speaker 4: But choice, it's all about choice.
Speaker 3: I love that you're always talking about choice, Nehu, because
Speaker 3: choice is agency.
Speaker 2: You said something at the top of this interview that
Speaker 2: I keep thinking about as we're talking. You said you
Speaker 2: didn't want to feel like you didn't fit anymore. Why
Speaker 2: did you personally feel like you didn't fit? And why
Speaker 2: why do you see that among women more?
Speaker 1: You know, I think we.
Speaker 6: Are holding so many notions of what we should be,
Speaker 6: and many of them sometimes are are in conflict with
Speaker 6: one another, right, and so when we feel that tension,
Speaker 6: when we're supposed to be strong and we're supposed to
Speaker 6: be powerful, and we're supposed to also be feminine and
Speaker 6: soft and kind, you know, a lot of that implodes.
Speaker 6: And so I'll tell you, guys working at a tech
Speaker 6: start running brand. When I had my first child in
Speaker 6: a very male dominated tech sector, you had to sort
Speaker 6: of take on one persona, and then in another sector,
Speaker 6: when you're managing teams of young women, you have to
Speaker 6: be another persona. And I was always sort of contorting
Speaker 6: myself to fit the room. You know, I immigrated to
Speaker 6: this country, immigrated to a predominantly white town, and I
Speaker 6: remember in my teens purposefully imploding my math in science
Speaker 6: scores or grading because I wanted to sort of upend
Speaker 6: the idea that like all Indians were really good at
Speaker 6: math and science, and I was partying hard, I was
Speaker 6: just trying to fit and I left and I decided
Speaker 6: to take a year off and I ended up traveling
Speaker 6: for a year. And that year away really was so
Speaker 6: powerful for me, and I think it really developed a
Speaker 6: self trust and take in sort of parting with that path,
Speaker 6: but really motherhood did that for me, and taking that
Speaker 6: time to just be. And I think why we're so
Speaker 6: exhausted is because we've had this very linear view of
Speaker 6: and productivity. And when we start to sort of embrace
Speaker 6: a softer view that's more of a portfolio of different
Speaker 6: things we care about and different things we do, and
Speaker 6: different things we need to move forward, then we start
Speaker 6: to be able to really refocus on the things that
Speaker 6: matter instead of holding it all so tightly.
Speaker 2: We're taking a quick break, and when we come back,
Speaker 2: we're talking about the benefits of taking a step away
Speaker 2: from work.
Speaker 3: We're back with Nyhush as a mom who is on
Speaker 3: social media a lot and consumes a lot of mom
Speaker 3: related social content. I want to make sure that we
Speaker 3: also talk about the joy when you think back to
Speaker 3: that time when you are fully at home and being
Speaker 3: a mom for five years.
Speaker 4: What kind of joy did motherhood awaken in you?
Speaker 6: Motherhood gets such a bad pr there's boring parts of
Speaker 6: every job, right, And I think you can accept that
Speaker 6: and then you realize that there's an innocence and pure
Speaker 6: joy that they glean from learning that if you can emulate,
Speaker 6: it reignites that curiosity in you. And I think for
Speaker 6: me a lot of that was through art and play
Speaker 6: with them. I think I was always someone trying to
Speaker 6: fit that I had sort of created a very specific
Speaker 6: sort of persona, and my kids let me be silly again.
Speaker 1: So when this comes naturally to you.
Speaker 6: But I was not someone who just like danced around
Speaker 6: a room, you know. I was so self conscious of that.
Speaker 6: And kids, when you part with your ego because you
Speaker 6: have to and they want you to, it unlocks something
Speaker 6: a little bit more free.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And as you were talking, I just thought about how
Speaker 3: I feel like my kids are making me a better interviewer.
Speaker 3: They're making me better at my job because kids always
Speaker 3: ask the best questions, and it's just reminding me to
Speaker 3: come from a place of genuine curiosity. I learned so
Speaker 3: much from them all the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I can also imagine talking to kids like
Speaker 2: you really have to explain something clearly, so you probably
Speaker 2: learn to be an even clearer communicator. I was laughing
Speaker 2: as you were talking because my mom always said to
Speaker 2: me she was a working mom, but she was like.
Speaker 1: You're a producer.
Speaker 2: I executive produced this family for thirty years. You're a founder.
Speaker 2: I'm the CEO of this family, have been for thirty years.
Speaker 2: Like moms are off Deana, they're like dermatologists, they're pediatricians,
Speaker 2: they're all of the things. But I really think that Naha,
Speaker 2: you're a huge part of this stay at home motherhood
Speaker 2: community evolving.
Speaker 1: You've really created a movement. Is the book part of that.
Speaker 2: I want you to talk about the power of Pause
Speaker 2: and how you're thinking about this book.
Speaker 6: So The Power Pause comes out January fourteenth, twenty twenty five.
Speaker 6: And I do think it is a stake in the
Speaker 6: around to say it's time for the culture to re
Speaker 6: examine the tropes around stay at home motherhood. And you know,
Speaker 6: I think is one part a guide. It's the first
Speaker 6: of its kind that really upends a lot of tropes
Speaker 6: but walks a woman through how to plan, how to
Speaker 6: walk through it with confidence and more ease and enjoyment.
Speaker 6: How to then transition back and use this as a
Speaker 6: time to explore and potentially return with confidence and enthusiasm.
Speaker 6: But it's also a cultural call to action.
Speaker 3: I actually get several young, ambitious, career minded women who
Speaker 3: come to me and they're like, I'm thinking about having
Speaker 3: a family at one point. How do I navigate this?
Speaker 3: Is there a right time? And I often point them
Speaker 3: to you, to Mother Untitled, because I think you're such
Speaker 3: a great resource. So whenever you encounter women like that
Speaker 3: out in the wild who have questions about what this
Speaker 3: looks like, what advice do you have for them?
Speaker 6: I think the first is to examine all the opportunities
Speaker 6: that exist for them. It isn't so black and white.
Speaker 6: That would be the first thing I would say. So,
Speaker 6: you know, this is very industry dependent. I think some
Speaker 6: industries are more flexible than others.
Speaker 1: As you know.
Speaker 6: I encourage women to seek out mentors who have done
Speaker 6: this before, who have walked a myriad of different paths,
Speaker 6: and think about what's available to them to allow them
Speaker 6: to stay connected to their work if that's what they want,
Speaker 6: or take a full pause and return. And the part
Speaker 6: two is also to not make any decisions before having
Speaker 6: really lived the experience of motherhood that I know so
Speaker 6: many women who said I thought I was going to
Speaker 6: stay at home, and actually I really felt called to return.
Speaker 6: And I also know women on the inverse who said
Speaker 6: I thought for sure I would return, and then I
Speaker 6: felt really called to stay at home.
Speaker 4: So true.
Speaker 6: And also go through the financial budgeting as to what's
Speaker 6: available to you in terms of taking a pause or
Speaker 6: down shift. You know, one of the saddest things things
Speaker 6: in this country is and the saddest messages I receive
Speaker 6: are the women who write me two weeks postpartum saying
Speaker 6: I think I want to do this, I don't know.
Speaker 6: And my advice to them is, don't do anything until
Speaker 6: you absolutely have to. No woman should have to make
Speaker 6: this decision at six weeks postpartum. Unfortunately too many women do.
Speaker 3: Gott to let the hormones balance out too. I would
Speaker 3: just say, don't make any big decisions while.
Speaker 1: Don't make any big decisions. Don't cut your hair.
Speaker 3: Don't cut bangs, don't cut bangs during postpartum, don't.
Speaker 6: Cut banks, don't quit your jab just wait, get all
Speaker 6: the data.
Speaker 3: Naha.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for chatting with.
Speaker 1: Us Thank you, na Oh, it was such a pleasure.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Nahal Rouche is the founder and CEO of Mother Untitled
Speaker 3: and the author of The Power Pause, coming in twenty
Speaker 3: twenty five. You can follow her on ig and TikTok
Speaker 3: at Mother Untitled.
Speaker 1: Simon.
Speaker 2: We have to take a moment to reflect on our
Speaker 2: conversation with Neha because there was.
Speaker 3: A lot there, Danielle, I'm feeling really empowered by that
Speaker 3: conversation with Neha.
Speaker 2: I feel the same way. She really gives people tools.
Speaker 2: It's so actionable and tactical. It's not philosophical, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm here for a total cultural societal redesign.
Speaker 2: I don't think that domestic expectations and societal expectations have
Speaker 2: caught up to where women are in the workforce. Like
Speaker 2: we're effectively just doing more all of the time. But
Speaker 2: in the meantime, Neha is giving people words, tools and
Speaker 2: opportunities to work within the system we have, you know,
Speaker 2: like this is what we're living right now.
Speaker 3: Her message around living in the gray area, finding freedom
Speaker 3: and liberation in the gray area is so important and empowering.
Speaker 3: I love that she focus is on the right now.
Speaker 3: I've always internalized this mantra about just do the next
Speaker 3: right thing. And I think when you live that way,
Speaker 3: you're able to hold your life and your goals and
Speaker 3: your current situation in a much looser fashion and just
Speaker 3: say like I'm being flexible in this moment, like maybe
Speaker 3: this is the way that I'm doing things right now.
Speaker 4: Isn't going to last forever?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that flexibility is really it's really just liberating. I
Speaker 3: keep coming back to that word.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I think you know, the word you used, empowering,
Speaker 2: is so right too, because we just have the systemic
Speaker 2: devaluation of women's time, both at home and at work,
Speaker 2: and I really think NAHA is trying to combat that.
Speaker 3: I think the work that Neha is doing is really
Speaker 3: heart centered and it makes a lot of women who
Speaker 3: have previously been unseen feel seen and that is a
Speaker 3: true gift.
Speaker 1: Really well, so.
Speaker 4: All right, best to you tomorrow.
Speaker 3: We are back at it with another edition of Asking
Speaker 3: for a Friend with Friendship coach Danielle Buyer Jackson.
Speaker 4: Ooh, this was a good one.
Speaker 1: It really was. And that's it for today's show.
Speaker 2: So listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 2: Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 4: I'm Simone Boye.
Speaker 3: You can find me at Simone Boye on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 2: I'm Danielle Robe on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 1: That's Oro Bay.
Speaker 4: We'll see you tomorrow, folks,