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Speaker 3: Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and. Each week on Beyond Contact,
Speaker 3: Wilks for the latest news in ufology, discuss some of
Speaker 3: the classic cases and bring you the latest information from
Speaker 3: the newest cases as we talk with the top experts.
Speaker 4: Welcome to Beyond Contact on Captain Ron and today I
Speaker 4: have the great pleasure of speaking with one of the
Speaker 4: world's leading UFO researchers, historians and publishers, and that is
Speaker 4: none other than mister Richard Dolan himself. In addition to
Speaker 4: as many books, Richard has also hosting a podcast on
Speaker 4: YouTube called Richard Dolan Intelligent Disclosure. We are thrilled he's
Speaker 4: going to be joining us again at Contact in the Desert.
Speaker 4: He's always a staple there. Great to see again, Richard.
Speaker 5: How you doing, Hi, Ron, I'm always happy to be
Speaker 5: on a program with you. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 4: Here, of course. I bet you feel good getting that
Speaker 4: first of your three book series done.
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is I have. This is my second series.
Speaker 5: I did the UFOs in the National Security State, which
Speaker 5: is still, by the way in progress, but this is
Speaker 5: a three volume series on USOS so unidentified submerged water
Speaker 5: based UFOs we could say what UAP. And it's been
Speaker 5: a really three year project. It's taken since twenty twenty two,
Speaker 5: and I just published the first of those three volumes.
Speaker 5: And yeah, it's been a lot. It's been a very
Speaker 5: long project. But I'm so pleased with this one, and
Speaker 5: I'm just happy to say the other two volumes, all
Speaker 5: of those cases have been written. They're all complete. I
Speaker 5: will I'll be organizing them in as proper books for
Speaker 5: release in the next couple of months, so I think
Speaker 5: all should be out. I'm hoping by midyear of this
Speaker 5: year twenty twenty five, certainly this year, they'll be all out.
Speaker 4: That's fantastic. I look forward to it all right, So listen,
Speaker 4: I feel like you're one of the most well read
Speaker 4: people on this subject, and I'd like to ask you
Speaker 4: a few overview questions about where you sit today regarding
Speaker 4: the phenomenon before we get into the new books. I've
Speaker 4: always loved how careful you are not to overreach, and
Speaker 4: you pretty much stick to the facts about what the
Speaker 4: historical record shows. One thing I've noticed in the last
Speaker 4: few years is you do seem to be moving much
Speaker 4: more on the side of believing that let's call it
Speaker 4: aliens or at least some form of NHI is visiting Earth.
Speaker 4: Where I used to feel you were way more cautious
Speaker 4: about saying that what caused you to move in this direction.
Speaker 5: Yes, when I first for many years, when I jumped
Speaker 5: into the UFO field, I think that's probably true. I
Speaker 5: was very self consciously trying to be just the facts.
Speaker 5: I didn't want to overly conclude. I think it was
Speaker 5: enough for a day's work to just point out what
Speaker 5: is the historical reality of this, there is something here
Speaker 5: where they're from, what their agendas were. I was pretty
Speaker 5: hesitant to go into that, at least openly. Privately, I've
Speaker 5: always been happy to speculate about that, but publicly maybe
Speaker 5: not as much. But I would say in the last
Speaker 5: five even a little more than that five years, I thought,
Speaker 5: I have read a lot, I have studied a lot
Speaker 5: about this, And I thought, if I've been studying this
Speaker 5: for now about thirty years, and I still am I
Speaker 5: going to pretend that I don't have an opinion, I don't.
Speaker 5: I don't want to speculate on this. What is wrong
Speaker 5: with speculating. There's nothing wrong with speculating, as long as
Speaker 5: you try to base your speculations on as much accuracy
Speaker 5: and truth as you can. So I thought, let's do that.
Speaker 5: I wrote a book called The Alien Agendas, which was
Speaker 5: basically that form of speculation where I just thought, look,
Speaker 5: I'm not saying that I know this is how it is,
Speaker 5: but this is how it looks like to me based
Speaker 5: on the evidence that is meaningful to me. And so
Speaker 5: I have concluded, at least, let's say provisionally, that there
Speaker 5: are probably a number of intelligences that are say, checking
Speaker 5: us out. I think we're very interesting right now. I
Speaker 5: think humanity is very interesting at this time in our history.
Speaker 5: I mean, we're you know, we've gone for thousands, hundreds
Speaker 5: of thousands, you could see even say millions of years
Speaker 5: as developing upright, you know, hominins living in a certain way,
Speaker 5: and only in the last couple of hundred years, it's
Speaker 5: really not long we've had technology that's worth anything. That
Speaker 5: We've had balloons, and then we get railroads, and then
Speaker 5: we get airplanes, and then we get the electric light bulb,
Speaker 5: and next thing you know, we're in wireless radio and
Speaker 5: atomic weapons and computers, and now we're into AI. It's
Speaker 5: all been very fast. So that to me, I think
Speaker 5: is certainly enough to get the attention of any observing intelligence.
Speaker 5: They're going to know we're about to make a debut,
Speaker 5: and I think they're looking at us very carefully.
Speaker 4: This is the evidence you're talking about. What is the
Speaker 4: strongest evidence that supports that we've been visited?
Speaker 5: I think we have. I'll go back to, first of all,
Speaker 5: the military declassified UFO reports. I've always liked to start
Speaker 5: with those. What I learned is that there is a
Speaker 5: very large cache of declassified United States government documents from
Speaker 5: the Department of Defense, different military services and so on,
Speaker 5: that described in great detail in many cases objects that
Speaker 5: are described as flying saucers hanging out over sensitive installations,
Speaker 5: triggering alarms of all types, triggering attempts to intercept frequently,
Speaker 5: and you know, you get to read these reports. They
Speaker 5: were classified for many years. There was a declassification after
Speaker 5: the scandal of Watergate in the nineteen seventies, we had
Speaker 5: a bit of an opening of the Freedom of Information Act,
Speaker 5: and for about five years particularly, we were able to
Speaker 5: get a lot of very very intriguing UFO documents declassified,
Speaker 5: and all someone has to do is read them. It
Speaker 5: doesn't prove that aliens are here, but it does prove
Speaker 5: doesn't hint or suggest. It proves that the US government
Speaker 5: has lied about UFOs. So we would tell the public
Speaker 5: nothing to this. It's all hoaxes, hallucinations, misidentification, etc. And
Speaker 5: then you read the classified reports and you can see
Speaker 5: they were thinking nothing of the sort. Once I discovered
Speaker 5: in the nineties when I was researching this, that there's
Speaker 5: a disconnect between what we were being told and what
Speaker 5: the national security community was actually thinking about this, I felt, well,
Speaker 5: I'd like to get to the bottom. Did they ever
Speaker 5: stop being interested? Did they ever figure this out? Like
Speaker 5: what these UFOs were answer no, not that anyone can see.
Speaker 5: This was never resolved. It was always a problem, it
Speaker 5: was always a matter of secrecy. To conclude that it's
Speaker 5: alien is that's a different level of proof than saying
Speaker 5: there are UFOs. It's one thing to say they're UFOs,
Speaker 5: it's another to say they're aliens. But one reason I
Speaker 5: do conclude that it's probably aliens is, you know, beyond
Speaker 5: the declassified documents, you have just a lot of really
Speaker 5: good research. I'm a big fan of the late Leonard Stringfield.
Speaker 5: He was one of the og UFO researchers from the
Speaker 5: seventies and eighties, actually even before that, but he started
Speaker 5: collecting stories and that's what we can call them, from
Speaker 5: retired military people, a lot of Air Force. He lived
Speaker 5: not far from Air Force headquarters, and Stringfield collected well
Speaker 5: over one hundred testimonies from retired military or sometimes there's
Speaker 5: spouses talking about alien bodies being studied in secure facilities,
Speaker 5: or alien craft retrievals from this or that other place.
Speaker 5: And I think when you put together or that research,
Speaker 5: along with other research that people were doing in that
Speaker 5: period of time, it's actually really strong case that we've
Speaker 5: got a phenomenon that existed that's not supposed to exist,
Speaker 5: and there's more than a little bit of evidence or
Speaker 5: at least reason to think that there are genuine aliens
Speaker 5: that are behind that phenomenon. So I think it's the
Speaker 5: best hypothesis. The extra trastrial one, I think is still
Speaker 5: the best. That doesn't mean that there aren't other strange
Speaker 5: things to this phenomenon. People talk about interdimensional aspects and whatnot,
Speaker 5: and all of that is potentially true. Seems to me
Speaker 5: they're coming from somewhere else, and that somewhere else is
Speaker 5: probably another world somewhere in this universe.
Speaker 4: I think you've also said that you believe that we've
Speaker 4: recovered ET spacecraft through these various crash retrievals. Do you
Speaker 4: believe as some people do, like doctor Greer for example,
Speaker 4: and some others that believe there's a small worldwide, unacknowledged
Speaker 4: let's call it, a cabal hidden within black projects in
Speaker 4: our military who hold this knowledge and are the ones
Speaker 4: keeping it secret? Or do you think it's just our
Speaker 4: regular military making these recoveries.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a great question. I think it's a little
Speaker 5: bit of both. I think primarily, what when you talk
Speaker 5: about the black cabal off the grid. I think that's
Speaker 5: ultimately where this power lies. Yes, but I don't think
Speaker 5: there's any question that standard military personnel have been involved
Speaker 5: in these retrievals, because we have a lot of testimony
Speaker 5: from retired military people to exactly that effect that described,
Speaker 5: whether it's to Leonard Stringfield or any other researcher, how
Speaker 5: on one occasion they were tasked with performing security detail
Speaker 5: or retrieval detail or this type of thing. So it
Speaker 5: seems to me that when I say regular military, that's
Speaker 5: not probably accurate for me to put it that way,
Speaker 5: but some kind of standard military operation frequently can retrieve this.
Speaker 5: But you know, the way that whole system works is
Speaker 5: that you could be a in the army, but you
Speaker 5: or your colleague might be part of a classified program
Speaker 5: that they're just not telling anyone about. So once once
Speaker 5: the secrecy is deep, so once once a craft has recovered.
Speaker 5: What it seems to me that we have the activity
Speaker 5: of private corporations becoming involved. So what it looks like
Speaker 5: in conjunction with military people. I don't know exactly how
Speaker 5: the legal structure of this works like, but it does
Speaker 5: seem that you've got private corporations that are custodians, let's say,
Speaker 5: or at least in charge of managing the technology of
Speaker 5: these these craft. So there's a lot of legal a
Speaker 5: lot of legal information that we still want to get
Speaker 5: as in terms of who's in control of the technology
Speaker 5: or and or bodies and how does this all work.
Speaker 5: I think a lot of it has been privatized to
Speaker 5: some extent.
Speaker 4: Richard, we got to take a quick break there. When
Speaker 4: we come back, we're going to talk more to you
Speaker 4: about a couple more et questions, and then we're going
Speaker 4: to move on to your brand new book series on
Speaker 4: the USOS. You're listening to Beyond Contact on the Eye
Speaker 4: Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 4: We're back on Beyond Contact. I'm speaking with mister Richard Dolan.
Speaker 4: I've been saying for about twelve years now that I
Speaker 4: do not see what they call big D disclosure from
Speaker 4: our government coming. If someone does have this secret knowledge
Speaker 4: in these technologies, I don't see any upside to them
Speaker 4: letting that information out. However, recently I have heard from
Speaker 4: more and more individuals besides Steve Bassett, of course, who
Speaker 4: now claimed that they feel like there will be some
Speaker 4: form of disclosure in fact coming and it seems to
Speaker 4: be within the next two years. And that includes doctor Greer,
Speaker 4: Danny Sheehan, I think Jeremy Corbel and George Nap have
Speaker 4: said something to that effect as well. Where do you
Speaker 4: set on that possibility.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would not make any predictions along those lines.
Speaker 5: We've been hearing predictions for years and years and years, honestly,
Speaker 5: and not to take any thing away from those people,
Speaker 5: and maybe it's possible. I mean, here's the thing. I
Speaker 5: agree with you Ron in your perspective, like, there's no
Speaker 5: upside to those people who have this secret for giving
Speaker 5: it up. But the thing is they are not the
Speaker 5: only part of this equation. So they don't have one
Speaker 5: hundred percent control. They have a lot of control, but
Speaker 5: they're in a dynamic situation, a dynamic world. Things are changing.
Speaker 5: I think of the old phrase the irresistible force versus
Speaker 5: the immovable object, and the secrecy is the immovable object
Speaker 5: and it always will be. But there is an increasingly
Speaker 5: irresistible force to disclosure. And this is really going to
Speaker 5: be interesting to see how this plays out. One very
Speaker 5: well connected person used the phrase toothpaste out of the
Speaker 5: tube with me. One time, and I've never forgotten it.
Speaker 5: He say, Yep, it's just more toothpaste out of the tube.
Speaker 5: And it's true, like, once some of this information is out,
Speaker 5: it's it doesn't go back in. So we're at a
Speaker 5: place now within our public discourse where certain things are
Speaker 5: being acknowledged that we're never acknowledged before. But we are
Speaker 5: still in a place that we're still having real basic,
Speaker 5: bare bones, low level conversation. It's just starting to creep
Speaker 5: up there. I mean, publicly speaking, we're still we're still
Speaker 5: not in a confirmation about UAP or UFOs or ET.
Speaker 5: I mean, we're not anywhere near that. I just watch
Speaker 5: some news coverage of annapolinea Luna, who's going to be
Speaker 5: leading a task force in the next few months in
Speaker 5: Congress on UFOs USOS. We're told also JFK RFK, Martin
Speaker 5: Luther King, I'm like completely on board with that. That's wonderful.
Speaker 5: But I've listened to a lot of media commentary that's
Speaker 5: just vicious and going after these conspiracy mongering people and
Speaker 5: so forth. So we're really not at a place even
Speaker 5: now where you know, a lot of folks in the
Speaker 5: UFO community think, oh yeah, it's it's all out there.
Speaker 5: We're all having this open conversation. Yeah, more than before,
Speaker 5: but there is still a very intransit obstinate establishment that
Speaker 5: is still not giving anything away here. So where is
Speaker 5: this going to lead. We've had a lot of disclosure
Speaker 5: up till now, where we now know that the US
Speaker 5: government had a UFO program called ATIP. We now know
Speaker 5: the US government and the Navy have procedures for reporting UFOs.
Speaker 5: Ten years ago, that would have been incredible. We would
Speaker 5: have thought that's disclosure. We've heard about exotic materials being
Speaker 5: studied by the government, by the Army, all of these
Speaker 5: I would have thought ten plus years ago, these would
Speaker 5: have been enough to cause a kind of avalanche of disclosure,
Speaker 5: and it hasn't happened. We have all of this information
Speaker 5: out there and we're still arguing about what it means.
Speaker 5: So to me, that just tells me there's a lot
Speaker 5: more room, very likely for this argument to continue. You know,
Speaker 5: Let's just say some insider, a whistleblower, another David Grush
Speaker 5: comes forward and says I have proof about bodies. Well,
Speaker 5: unless that person's able to bring out an alien body,
Speaker 5: it's going to be very tough to get full agreement
Speaker 5: on this. You can just see how the media will
Speaker 5: work on it for sure.
Speaker 4: And even video and photographic evidence today is so easily manipulated.
Speaker 4: No one's going to believe it anyway. None of the
Speaker 4: stuff moves the needle. Even the disclosure project from two
Speaker 4: thousand and one didn't move the needle at all.
Speaker 5: No, no, no, And that was that was a very
Speaker 5: you know, a lot of people Stephen Greer is a
Speaker 5: very polarizing person in the UFO field, but you got
Speaker 5: to give this guy credit for that thing. The two
Speaker 5: thousand and one disclosure project was heavy duty. It went
Speaker 5: a little too far, in my opinion. They started getting
Speaker 5: into the whole political need to ban space based weapons
Speaker 5: and this and that. Though that was a bridge too far.
Speaker 5: But just putting the evidence out there was a really
Speaker 5: great idea and it was powerful, and you're right, nothing happened.
Speaker 4: You know. I feel also that, you know, we way
Speaker 4: oversimplify interacting with an alien race if that's what's coming.
Speaker 4: Yesally we talk about it like it's people from across
Speaker 4: the globe in another culture, and that will be the difficult,
Speaker 4: But in reality, if they have the technology to transverse
Speaker 4: space or even travel interdimensionally. However, they're getting here, their
Speaker 4: intellect must be well beyond ours. So how do you
Speaker 4: think it would go of us trying to interact with them?
Speaker 4: I personally can't imagine they would care at all. I
Speaker 4: equate it to us watching an ant farm.
Speaker 5: I don't disagree with that at all. I wondered about
Speaker 5: this a lot. There's many many folks connected with this
Speaker 5: community who are totally on board with let's join the
Speaker 5: Galactic Federation. Let's be on board. We'll become one with
Speaker 5: them as if we're on an equal footing. And I don't.
Speaker 5: I mean, just imagine what it feels like to sit
Speaker 5: in a room with someone who's only got merely twice
Speaker 5: your intelligence and looks like ten times better and is
Speaker 5: just staring at looking at you, not saying a word.
Speaker 5: Very intimidating it, just if it were a human being.
Speaker 5: So you have to make you I hope I'm always
Speaker 5: like that when I'm with you.
Speaker 4: You. I'm sure Tracy makes you feel that way on
Speaker 4: a daily basis.
Speaker 5: She's been able to I'll tell you that. But you know, seriously,
Speaker 5: when you think about being in the room with I mean,
Speaker 5: all of the descriptions that I have ever read or
Speaker 5: talked to people about their encounter with beings like actual
Speaker 5: face to face, not getting some kind of telepathic download
Speaker 5: or anything, but like an actual, alleged face to face.
Speaker 5: It's very intimidating, it's very powerful. These beings clearly have
Speaker 5: an incredible intellect. They're probably telepathic, they're probably part of
Speaker 5: a hive mind. They may not laugh at all of
Speaker 5: our jokes, and you know, they probably have a life
Speaker 5: expectancy that's much longer than ours. Do we think that
Speaker 5: we're just going to be able to get all of
Speaker 5: those goodies when we join the galactic community, I don't know.
Speaker 5: But on the other hand, look, if if that's what
Speaker 5: they are like, then I would say, we do want
Speaker 5: to know this, and we want to be able to
Speaker 5: understand what they're like as best as we can and
Speaker 5: get over the intimidation and get over that stuff, because
Speaker 5: if it's the reality, we're going to have to deal
Speaker 5: with it. So I don't think it's the end of
Speaker 5: the world. I mean, the story of humanity's quest through
Speaker 5: science is basically, you know, the dethroning of one myth
Speaker 5: after another. We used to think that Earth was the
Speaker 5: center of the universe, well, okay, it isn't We used
Speaker 5: to think a lot of things about how special the
Speaker 5: human race was in this way or that way, And well,
Speaker 5: you know now that we learn about the consciousness of
Speaker 5: other creatures on this planet intelligence, well, we're we are intelligent,
Speaker 5: but we're not necessarily completely unique. And if we run
Speaker 5: into an intelligence that's from somewhere else, we will have
Speaker 5: to probably recognize the fact that we're not operating on
Speaker 5: their level. So that will be a psychological shock that
Speaker 5: we'll have to deal with. Eventually. I think we'll learn
Speaker 5: to deal with that. But I think a really true
Speaker 5: disclosure would form our society in all kinds of ways
Speaker 5: that it could be very hard to predict. I tried
Speaker 5: myself fifteen years ago with a book with a co author.
Speaker 5: We tried to plan that out, but it's a I
Speaker 5: think a genuine opening of this subject would be probably
Speaker 5: the most revolutionary act I can imagine.
Speaker 4: No doubt. Okay, let's move on to your book series,
Speaker 4: which is quite an ambitious task, but one I personally
Speaker 4: feel really needed to be done. As you've specifically looked
Speaker 4: at UFO cases that are in fact USO cases. As
Speaker 4: you mentioned, unidentified submergen objects which are seen underwater. These
Speaker 4: are often the forgotten, you know, misfit step brother of
Speaker 4: the UFOs in the sky. And I've never been a
Speaker 4: fan of this UAP designation, but this made sense when
Speaker 4: you think about it, because it's better to say unidentified
Speaker 4: anomalist phenomenon because it includes these usos.
Speaker 5: Right, it does work. Yeah, I feel similarly. In fact,
Speaker 5: I started is my newest book out with of pages
Speaker 5: which I called a word on UAP slash UFO, and
Speaker 5: I wanted to talk a little bit about that. But yeah,
Speaker 5: I mean, so this project started out about three years
Speaker 5: ago and I just started looking at a couple of
Speaker 5: water based cases. There's a few that have always been
Speaker 5: somewhat well known to research. There's not many, but a few.
Speaker 5: I was doing these as video presentations for my website
Speaker 5: over at Richard Dolan Members and they were popular and
Speaker 5: I thought, this is actually just fascinating, and I could
Speaker 5: tell it was a rabbit hole. The next thing I knew.
Speaker 5: By the summer of twenty twenty two, I was looking
Speaker 5: for every single database that I could find that had
Speaker 5: USO cases. I was just hunting through. I went through
Speaker 5: the National UFO Reporting Center. I was given access to
Speaker 5: the Moufon case management system. I was very grateful for that,
Speaker 5: and the website of the late Carl find who was
Speaker 5: a very very excellent UFO researcher who focused on water.
Speaker 5: He had a good website which is not fully up
Speaker 5: any longer. But I was able to hunt through those
Speaker 5: in a lot of other books and magazines and out
Speaker 5: of print books and all of that, and I ended
Speaker 5: up sifting through cases and collecting the USO cases that
Speaker 5: I thought were worthy, and I've got nearly seven hundred
Speaker 5: of them going back a few hundred years.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Richard, it's a nice testament to those who had
Speaker 4: the courage to share these stories, and this book honors
Speaker 4: them and their courage to come forward in a way.
Speaker 4: I also thought that when we come back, we're going
Speaker 4: to talk to more with Richard about his incredible new
Speaker 4: book series on USOS called A History of USOS. You're
Speaker 4: listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to
Speaker 4: Coast am Aeronormal podcast Network. We are back on Beyond Contact.
Speaker 4: I'm Captain Ron. We're talking with mister Richard Dolan about
Speaker 4: his new book series, A History of USOS. Richard, incredibly,
Speaker 4: you've uncovered six hundred and seventy two of these USO cases,
Speaker 4: and these books seem to breathe life into these cases
Speaker 4: that have sort of been overlooked and may not have
Speaker 4: had the recognition they deserve, but they very well may
Speaker 4: be an important piece to the whole puzzle.
Speaker 5: Right Absolutely, My number one goal was to breathe life
Speaker 5: into these cases. I wanted to resuscitate them. They were
Speaker 5: I didn't even always think of them as cases. I
Speaker 5: think of them as someone's incredible life experience. You know,
Speaker 5: a lot of these people they're no longer alive. This
Speaker 5: first volume goes up to the end of nineteen sixty nine.
Speaker 5: Most of those witnesses, I'm sure are no longer alive,
Speaker 5: but they all, you know, they experienced something incredible, extraordinary,
Speaker 5: and I just wanted those stories not to be discarded.
Speaker 5: They and I thought, I don't want that to happen.
Speaker 5: I want to do my best to write about these
Speaker 5: in an accurate way, but also in a way that
Speaker 5: brings them to life. So that was my number one goal.
Speaker 5: But a lot of other things happen in the course
Speaker 5: of this project. One was an idea from my wife.
Speaker 5: Tracy was one of the best ideas, which was to
Speaker 5: create a series of categories for each sighting. So initially
Speaker 5: we thought, well, you know, let's have a nice little
Speaker 5: like a little ID card for each case. You know,
Speaker 5: what color was the craft, what was the size of
Speaker 5: the craft, was it in the water, was it coming
Speaker 5: out of the water, was it going into the water,
Speaker 5: was there any effect on witnesses? And all of these
Speaker 5: different things that I thought were useful categories. So I
Speaker 5: did that for every single case, which was a lot
Speaker 5: of extra work, but it was worth it. And then
Speaker 5: once that was all put together, I thought, I will
Speaker 5: put this into a spreadsheet and let's see if we
Speaker 5: could study the data. All of that was chard.
Speaker 4: Not only did you put these in the categories, you
Speaker 4: also give them a specific reading, which I thought was
Speaker 4: an excellent idea, as Wow, this is very similar to
Speaker 4: Ryan Wood doing that to his book about crash retrievals,
Speaker 4: And that's really great for us viewers to see your
Speaker 4: opinion as the strength of evidence of these cases. I
Speaker 4: just wanted to throw that in there too.
Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you. That was a suggestion, by the way,
Speaker 5: from Colonel Carl Nell in one of my conversations with him.
Speaker 5: This was actually Carl was a really helpful reader to
Speaker 5: this book, and this was his suggestion, which was to
Speaker 5: would I want to grade the strength of evidence of
Speaker 5: each of these cases? At first, actually I didn't even
Speaker 5: like I didn't know if I liked that idea, because
Speaker 5: I felt like a lot of those cases that would
Speaker 5: look like they had weak evidence very likely could have
Speaker 5: been true anyway. So part of me didn't want to
Speaker 5: go down that road. But Carl had a really good point,
Speaker 5: which was, we still want to know which cases are
Speaker 5: bulletproof in terms of the evidence, And he was right,
Speaker 5: And so I did create this five different criteria and
Speaker 5: I kind of weighted them, and on the basis of that,
Speaker 5: I had a score from two the minimum to twelve
Speaker 5: the maximum.
Speaker 4: Right, why do zero to ten when you could do
Speaker 4: two to twelve? Well, whose idea was that?
Speaker 5: That was mine? That was at a quirk of my system.
Speaker 5: So that's because there were two categories in which you'd
Speaker 5: get a point automatically. That's how I looked at it.
Speaker 5: How I would gauge the source, and I had a
Speaker 5: series of criteria for that, and then the things about
Speaker 5: the witness himself or herself, you would get one point.
Speaker 5: But if it was only two points total that was
Speaker 5: considered very weak. There are other categories. Was a corroboration
Speaker 5: or how soon was this reported? Or was this reported
Speaker 5: firsthand or second hand? Were there independent investigations done? Sometimes yes,
Speaker 5: sometimes no, So all of these other factors that went
Speaker 5: in there, and I just tried to do my best
Speaker 5: to wait it.
Speaker 4: How often did you come across cases that were trans medium,
Speaker 4: cases that kind of were both?
Speaker 5: Most were transmedium. I was kind of surprised. So of
Speaker 5: the six hundred and seventy two cases, I can't remember,
Speaker 5: more than four hundred were trans medium. So, in other words,
Speaker 5: where an object was seen emerging or entering the water,
Speaker 5: or sometimes both.
Speaker 4: Do you think that that's a technology that we possibly
Speaker 4: possess or do you think this points to definitely it
Speaker 4: being off war because we don't have that technology yet.
Speaker 5: I don't think that we have this. I really tried
Speaker 5: to look into this question. Do we have the ability
Speaker 5: to create a craft of any sort that can function
Speaker 5: equally well in water as in the air, And I'm
Speaker 5: just not aware of anything along those lines. We know
Speaker 5: that there's a lot of research along those lines. The
Speaker 5: trans medium craft had been reported for well over a century. Actually,
Speaker 5: say two centuries, maybe more, but for quite a while
Speaker 5: when we obviously did not have that capability. So I'm
Speaker 5: inclined to think when we see these transmitting cases that
Speaker 5: it's not from our civilization. A certain number of the
Speaker 5: cases we're just operating craft was below the water in
Speaker 5: a very unusual way that was not a submarine, not
Speaker 5: a weal, this type of thing. And I did include
Speaker 5: a couple of small, a very small number of cases
Speaker 5: where the object wasn't necessarily seen interacting with the water,
Speaker 5: but it was low over the water. And I would
Speaker 5: sometimes include that, especially if you're over a big ocean
Speaker 5: and you're in the middle of the Atlantic or Pacific
Speaker 5: Ocean and there's a thing hovering ten feet above the
Speaker 5: water and maybe it's sucking up water. Maybe it's not,
Speaker 5: but even if it's not, you're out there. If you're
Speaker 5: the Navy you see a craft hovering ten feet over
Speaker 5: the water, I'm probably inclined to include that one. So
Speaker 5: there were some of those, but most of the cases
Speaker 5: that I have, the object was either in the water
Speaker 5: or coming out or entering the water.
Speaker 4: Interesting, is there anything else that stood you stood out
Speaker 4: to you in the data when you made the spreadsheets. Yeah,
Speaker 4: so much examples.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so one thing that I found, well, one has
Speaker 5: to do with electromagnetic interference and one has to do
Speaker 5: with day versus night sidings. Both of these I think
Speaker 5: are quite useful to keep in mind, So day versus night.
Speaker 5: So one of the categories I created was when did
Speaker 5: this occur? And not necessarily the exact time of day
Speaker 5: because that's not always easy. But did it happen in
Speaker 5: the daytime? Did it happen at night? Simple? I thought,
Speaker 5: I'll just think, I'll just do that. Well, it turns out,
Speaker 5: up until nineteen sixty seven, a very consistent, slight majority
Speaker 5: of the cases that I was able to collect occurred
Speaker 5: during the daytime, although even in that earlier period there
Speaker 5: was an absolute difference between military and non military encounters.
Speaker 5: So military encounters were something like two thirds night and
Speaker 5: civilian counters were something like two thirds in the daytime.
Speaker 5: Roughly speaking, after nineteen sixty seven, everything went tonight. It
Speaker 5: was like flipping a switch. Whereas a slight majority had
Speaker 5: been in the daytime previously, suddenly it's three quarters or
Speaker 5: more are happening at night every year, year and year out,
Speaker 5: and military cases nearly ninety percent since nineteen sixty seven
Speaker 5: have occurred at night. It's incredible. So to me, that
Speaker 5: shows adaptability at adaptation by them. For some reason, a
Speaker 5: behavioral change happened at this time. And I don't really
Speaker 5: know if I have the exact reason why. I mean,
Speaker 5: I can speculate, but that definitely has happened. Says to
Speaker 5: me that there's an intelligence operating here. They can distinguish
Speaker 5: between military and non military vessels, first of all, because
Speaker 5: they behave differently, and they behave differently after the late
Speaker 5: sixties as opposed to before the late sixties.
Speaker 4: So that's one thing.
Speaker 5: And the other thing that's definitely worth noting is electromagnetic interference,
Speaker 5: so em magnetic interference, electronic interference if your clock stops,
Speaker 5: or your navy ship and your weapons won't operate, things
Speaker 5: like this. So from the nineteen fifties onward, from when
Speaker 5: I got my first EMUSO case, nine point five percent
Speaker 5: of all of those cases have electromagnetic interference, almost one
Speaker 5: out of ten, quite a lot. What's crazy is that
Speaker 5: military cases that number is doubled, so it's about twenty percent.
Speaker 5: And if there are some cases where there were reports
Speaker 5: of missing time in conjunction with these usos or also
Speaker 5: there were alleged sightings of alien beings in those instances
Speaker 5: missing time or beings. Electromagnetic interference isn't twice as common,
Speaker 5: it's four times as common. Wow, four times is likely.
Speaker 5: I don't think that's by accident. That's not something that
Speaker 5: I would have been able to predict beforehand going into
Speaker 5: the data. But it's absolutely in that data. And by
Speaker 5: the way, I'll just point out I made it's a
Speaker 5: huge spreadsheet. I don't even know if it's a good spreadsheet,
Speaker 5: but it's thirty seven pages. It's PDF, but it's easy
Speaker 5: to read. It's freely available. Anyone can download. It's like
Speaker 5: me showing my homework to the teacher. I want anyone
Speaker 5: to be able to see it. It's a free download
Speaker 5: at my website richital and members dot com.
Speaker 4: I have downloaded it here. It's incredible. It is a
Speaker 4: lot of data, and it just shows the amount of
Speaker 4: work and effort into this thing.
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, thank you. It's easier to appreciate if you've
Speaker 5: read the book. If you haven't read the book, it
Speaker 5: may not be as immediately understandable. Although you can see
Speaker 5: the cases chronologically, and I try to give a decent
Speaker 5: guideline as to what some of the acronyms and their mean.
Speaker 5: When I created that, that was my I never did
Speaker 5: a spreadsheet before, and so I didn't really know how
Speaker 5: to how to organize a lot of it to honestly, Like,
Speaker 5: how do I mention that there was a sighting in
Speaker 5: the South China Sea in nineteen twelve? How do I
Speaker 5: do that? How do I write south China Sea in there?
Speaker 5: So I used all these acronyms.
Speaker 4: Yeah, can you give us a glossary of what you did?
Speaker 4: It's great if they were to take a break right there, Richard.
Speaker 4: We're going to come right back and talk more with
Speaker 4: Richard about his series on a history of UFOs and
Speaker 4: hear about some of his favorite cases. You're listening to
Speaker 4: Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM
Speaker 4: Paranormal podcast Network. We are back with the great Richard Dolan.
Speaker 4: We are talking about his new series of books on
Speaker 4: USO's Richard, you were just talking about the spreadsheet and
Speaker 4: the different facts you have in there. You know, another
Speaker 4: interesting point that I caught out of this was that
Speaker 4: there seems to be cases that are in very isolated
Speaker 4: areas and then cases that are in very busy areas.
Speaker 4: That's kind of surprising as well. Huh.
Speaker 5: These things are everywhere on there, everywhere. There's cases in
Speaker 5: some of the most remote, inhospitable bodies of water on
Speaker 5: the planet. I think of the Baring Sea that's north
Speaker 5: of the Aleutian Islands. You don't want to go hang
Speaker 5: out there for a vacation. It's not a place that
Speaker 5: you'd want to go. Yet there's sightings there. There are
Speaker 5: sightings in the Sea of O Kosk, which is off
Speaker 5: the coast of Russia in eastern Siberia. Utterly like brutal
Speaker 5: weather conditions there. But then there's there are sightings in
Speaker 5: some of the major choke points, the Strait of Malacca,
Speaker 5: which is one of the major shipping roots of all
Speaker 5: of the entire world, or the Red Sea you know,
Speaker 5: which leads to the Siouxez Canal, or the Mediterranean Sea,
Speaker 5: many many areas in there. So they're in major shipping lanes,
Speaker 5: and they are in the most remote regions of the planet. No, yeah,
Speaker 5: I mean mind blowing stuff. I'll mention the first case
Speaker 5: that got me into this, if you don't mind, It
Speaker 5: was nineteen forty five at the end of World War two,
Speaker 5: and this was one that researchers kind of knew a
Speaker 5: little bit about. In the summer of nineteen forty five,
Speaker 5: the US was still at war with Japan. The Germans
Speaker 5: had surrendered, but the Japanese were still fighting, and there
Speaker 5: was a US transport ship coming back from the far
Speaker 5: East to Seattle. It's coming across the Pacific there along
Speaker 5: the Aleutian Islands, and they were near a little island
Speaker 5: and the allusions called Adak Island, really tiny, but we
Speaker 5: had a military base there for a long time. And
Speaker 5: so this transport ship called the Dell Roff was coming
Speaker 5: back and an object, a disc shaped object, was seen
Speaker 5: by the crew emerging from the water. This is a
Speaker 5: very very it's not a place where you'd expect to
Speaker 5: see anything like this, but it comes out of the
Speaker 5: water and it circles around the ship utterly silent, two times,
Speaker 5: and it's exactly shaped like a flying saucer. And it
Speaker 5: then just took off at a fairly high rate of
Speaker 5: speed and slashed a couple of lights as it was
Speaker 5: in the distance, and then it was gone. So one
Speaker 5: of the witnesses was a man named Robert Crawford. He
Speaker 5: spoke about this at great length to a great UFO
Speaker 5: researcher and then eighteen sixties doctor James McDonald. A lot
Speaker 5: of people know about him, and I think it's a
Speaker 5: great case. But there's just so many of these, and
Speaker 5: they're so consistent.
Speaker 4: You know. I think you mentioned that some of these
Speaker 4: have another unique characteristic that I wasn't familiar with, which
Speaker 4: is that this craft will come out of the water
Speaker 4: and it doesn't seem wet or drip water at all.
Speaker 5: Sometimes that is so yeah, other times not so. I'm
Speaker 5: not sure why that is, but without a doubt, and
Speaker 5: in fact to the point where witnesses would actively comment
Speaker 5: on how strange it seemed to them that there wasn't
Speaker 5: dripping water coming from this craft, although I would emphasize
Speaker 5: there were a number of cases where the witness would emphasize,
Speaker 5: oh my god, I saw the water just pouring down
Speaker 5: from this think so at times yes and at times no.
Speaker 5: I mentioned Carl find a little while ago in this conversation,
Speaker 5: and Carl is really astute about this. He was trying
Speaker 5: to understand the effects physical effects of water with these
Speaker 5: UAP or these UFOs, and he believed it had something
Speaker 5: to do with the creation of a field, like an
Speaker 5: ionic or ionization field around the craft. So if the
Speaker 5: field was on he hypothesized that you wouldn't see the
Speaker 5: water pouring off, that somehow the field would protect the
Speaker 5: craft from the water. So maybe that's it, But definitely
Speaker 5: it is a feature of some of these cases where
Speaker 5: people would not see water on the craft at all
Speaker 5: and it should have.
Speaker 4: Had water, which speaks to some sort of advanced technology.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's you think, so pretty unique. Think yes.
Speaker 4: Seeing so many of these cases, it reminded me of
Speaker 4: things like Ryan Graves saying that he saw objects nearly
Speaker 4: every day. I wonder if there's guys out there in
Speaker 4: the military that you know, work on the ships all
Speaker 4: the time that see these things more frequently than we realize.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, my opinion. I mean, you know, when I
Speaker 5: think about how I found the cases that I found,
Speaker 5: so there, look, I went through thousands. I probably looked
Speaker 5: at ten thousands and cases to select the six hundred
Speaker 5: and seventy two that are in here. I'm just estimating,
Speaker 5: but probably. But what you find is that frequently, like
Speaker 5: with a good USO case, they're often written about years
Speaker 5: after the fact by the witness to some online community
Speaker 5: like the National UFO Reporting Center is a really big
Speaker 5: place where these go. And a typical story will be
Speaker 5: someone saying, yeah, you know, thirty years ago, I was
Speaker 5: with my girlfriend at the time and we were out
Speaker 5: and we saw this thing enter the water or come
Speaker 5: out of the water or whatever, and they're just writing
Speaker 5: about it now for the first time. Sometimes those are
Speaker 5: military cases. You really get the idea that there are many,
Speaker 5: many more of these stories out there than people are reporting.
Speaker 5: And I absolutely believe that there is more of this
Speaker 5: activity than even I was able to find. Definitely, there's
Speaker 5: I think there's a lot of options.
Speaker 4: Right was that UFOs as well, It's the same. Absolutely,
Speaker 4: these guys can tell that.
Speaker 5: I tend to think that there's more aerial activity than
Speaker 5: water based activity. Sometimes you hear people say, well, most
Speaker 5: of this takes place in around water. I don't know
Speaker 5: if that's actually true. Maybe, but my take is that
Speaker 5: there are many, many more aerial sightings and water based
Speaker 5: But the water based aspect of this is very significant
Speaker 5: and has been overlooked for years. And I'm so glad
Speaker 5: that I got to do this project. It was a
Speaker 5: real labor of love. Honestly, these cases are just mind blowing.
Speaker 5: They're not even they're beyond fascinating. They are mind blowing
Speaker 5: in many cases, and I'm just astonished at what these
Speaker 5: people clearly went through. You know, you could be a
Speaker 5: hardcore skeptic and say, well, I can't believe this until
Speaker 5: there's actual provable evidence. Well, what you could say is
Speaker 5: that there's many cases where the evidence is open and
Speaker 5: shut and something absolutely happened, and we can maybe argue
Speaker 5: over the interpretation, but there's definitely something going on. But
Speaker 5: I take it a step further when I encounter a
Speaker 5: heartfelt story from someone who is clearly telling something that
Speaker 5: here's another example. This is from a later case. This
Speaker 5: is from the twenty first century, and it will appear
Speaker 5: in my third volume. I can't remember all the details.
Speaker 5: Ohio Lake in Ohio, near the border, I think with Kentucky,
Speaker 5: somewhat elderly couple, I probably around two thousand and five,
Speaker 5: two thousand and eight. They're hanging out by themselves. They
Speaker 5: like to walk by the lake there. So she's writing,
Speaker 5: she's now a widow, her husband has died, and she
Speaker 5: just is writing into I think it was a national
Speaker 5: UFO Reporting center, and she said, look, I just have
Speaker 5: to tug at this story. My husband and I were
Speaker 5: out there and we saw this immense object, she says,
Speaker 5: come out of the water. It was if I had
Speaker 5: sat on my husband's shoulders, she said, I could have
Speaker 5: almost reached up and touched it. And she described the
Speaker 5: detailed underside of this craft and how immense it was,
Speaker 5: and just how blown away they were by this, and
Speaker 5: then it just drifted off. Now I'm reading this woman's
Speaker 5: account and I could say, well, I haven't been able
Speaker 5: to measure this in the laboratory, so I'm not going
Speaker 5: to believe it. But being a reasonable human being, you
Speaker 5: read these stories. This woman clearly was not making this up.
Speaker 5: I'm sure because it's so many others. So yeah, I
Speaker 5: choose to believe it, and I think she's telling the truth.
Speaker 4: Yeah, why would people? Why to what? End of it?
Speaker 4: Doesn't make sense to me exactly. And Richard, we're out
Speaker 4: of time here, but I really do appreciate your objective
Speaker 4: approach to this subject. This book series is going to
Speaker 4: provide us with excellent data set that we can move
Speaker 4: closer towards deciphering what is actually happening with this phenomenon.
Speaker 4: So thanks for pouring so much of your time and
Speaker 4: obvious efforts.
Speaker 5: Hey, I'll just mention the book is very amply illustrated.
Speaker 5: I had a great illustrator, Alan Levine. He's an early
Speaker 5: UFO researcher himself from the nineteen seventies, and he's a
Speaker 5: great artist. He did wonderful work help you further bringing
Speaker 5: good life into these cases, and I wanted it to
Speaker 5: be a good rate. I think it is. Actually, I
Speaker 5: think it's an interesting read to help people enjoy it
Speaker 5: as much as I enjoyed writing it.
Speaker 4: Awesome, Thanks again, brother. You can find Richard at Richard
Speaker 4: dolanmembers dot com, and you can find me at Twitter
Speaker 4: and Instagram at CD Underscore Captain Ron. Stay connected by
Speaker 4: checking out Contact Inthdesert dot com. Stay open minded and
Speaker 4: rational as we explore the unknown right here on the
Speaker 4: iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network.
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