1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: Y'all already know that navigating the online world can be 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: tricky and complicated. That's why here at there are new 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:09,039 Speaker 1: Girls on the Internet. We just launched a brand new 4 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: newsletter where I'll be taking your Internet questions and conundrums. 5 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: To subscribe and submit a question, just go to Tangoti 6 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: dot com slash newsletter and I can't wait to connect 7 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: with you there. Just a quick heads up, this episode 8 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 1: was filmed while I was on medical bedrest, so it 9 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: might sound a little bit different in terms of sound 10 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: quality than the rest of our episodes. There Are No 11 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 1: Girls on the Internet as a production of My Heart 12 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: Radio and Unboss Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this is 13 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet. There's a lot 14 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: going on at Netflix. For the first time in over 15 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: a decade, the streaming service lost subscribers. Netflix lost about 16 00:00:55,240 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: two subscribers, were originally expected to gain two point five million, 17 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: and they also said that they expect to lose two 18 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: million more subscribers in the second quarter. So who is 19 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: Netflix blaming for this poor showing us the viewers for 20 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 1: sharing passwords. But Gizmodo spoke to media analyst Michael Patcher, 21 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:18,919 Speaker 1: who is pretty dubious of the idea that sharing passwords 22 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: is to blame, saying it's just the dumbest idea whatsoever. 23 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: Incidents of passwords sharing did not grow materially during the quarter. 24 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,119 Speaker 1: They've always known about it, he said, and Netflix pretty 25 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: much agreed. The company acknowledged that a letter to investors 26 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: that account sharing as a percentage of our paying membership 27 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: hasn't changed much over the years, So, as Oprah might say, 28 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: what is the truth? Netflix laid off a hundred and 29 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: fifty staffers, about two percent of the United States workforce, 30 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: many of whom are black, brown, queer, and trans staffers 31 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: who were specifically corded from other jobs to lead initiatives 32 00:01:54,960 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: that champion inclusion at Netflix. Layoffs gutted popular programs like 33 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: Strong Black Lead, a vertical for black content, which is 34 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: often held up as a shining example of how to 35 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,679 Speaker 1: market and build community around inclusive content. Other verticals that 36 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: focus on content specifically for marginalized communities were also gutted 37 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: by layoffs, like the Latin X focused Contoto, Asian American 38 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: Focus Golden, and the LGBTQ focused vertical. Most now, it's 39 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: unclear what will happen to these initiatives or to inclusive 40 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: content at Netflix going forward. But the company may have 41 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: given us a little bit of a hint in a 42 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: recent update to their culture memo, which basically says if 43 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: staffers don't want to associate with offensive content they may 44 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: put out, they should just quit. It says, if you'd 45 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: find it hard to support our content breadth, Netflix may 46 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: not be the best place for you now. This is 47 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: probably a reference to content like Dave Chappelle's Netflix comedy 48 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,519 Speaker 1: special that led the staff walkouts and turmoil last fall. 49 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: B Paggles Minor, a black, trans then pregnant Netflix employee 50 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: who was fired when the company accused them of leaking 51 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: the fact that Netflix paid Dave Chappelle twenty four point 52 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: one million dollars for us comedy special that included transphobic content. 53 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: B gave us lots of good insight into the culture 54 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,359 Speaker 1: at Netflix. So let's revisit our conversation from this best ball. 55 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,959 Speaker 1: After the release of Dave Chappelle's new comedy special The 56 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: Closer on Netflix, Netflix staffers and their allies spoke up 57 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 1: about the specials transphobic material and organized to walk out. 58 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: Chappelle doubled down in a newly released clip where he 59 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: said Netflix desk that they wanted a safer work environment, 60 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: but that he's the only one who's not able to 61 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: get into the building at Netflix anymore. I'm the only 62 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: one that can't go to the office anymore. But you 63 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: want to know someone who most definitely cannot get back 64 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: into the Netflix building. B Paggles Minor, a very pregnant 65 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: black transformer program manager who Netflix fired for alleging they 66 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: were the source of a Bloomberg article about just how 67 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: much money Netflix spent on the special. Now Be disputes this, 68 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: as do their coworkers, and even after B was fired, 69 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: Bloomberg continues to publish new internal metrics from Netflix, making 70 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: it even more unlikely. B along with Terra Field, a 71 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: trans Netflix senior software engineer who was suspended for tweeting 72 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 1: critically about the special, have filed suits with the National 73 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: Labor Relations Board, saying that netflix engage in activity took 74 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 1: well employees from speaking up about working conditions, including seeking 75 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: to create a safe and affirming work environment, speaking up 76 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: about Netflix products and the impact its product choices have 77 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 1: on the LGBTQ community, and providing support for employees whom 78 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: Netflix has treated in an unlawful and disparate manner. And 79 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: as much as Dave Chappelle keeps talking about how he's 80 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: being canceled, you know, naturally as one does from a 81 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 1: massive stage in front of a massive adoring audience while 82 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,239 Speaker 1: earning millions for it, the demands of the Netflix staffers 83 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: who walked out do not include asking Netflix to take 84 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: down the comedy special. Instead, Netflix staffers are asking for 85 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: things like comparable investment and trans and non binary lead 86 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: projects at Netflix, and more trans and non binary people 87 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 1: in leadership positions. B is clear that this is about 88 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: so much more than one comedy special. So my name 89 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 1: is b pagals minor my pronounders they them there's and 90 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 1: my current title is growing a Baby, And that's about it. 91 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: So I read your Washington Post piece and I read 92 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: the piece on your blog. Both of literally talked about 93 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: this journey for you really kind of fully embrace in 94 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 1: who you are. And I guess one of my questions 95 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: for you was like, what was it like to feel 96 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 1: seen in that way? You know, um to share this 97 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: truth about yourself? Like were you did you feel seen 98 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: working at Netflix? Was this something that you know felt 99 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: it felt like a good fit. Yeah. You know, it's 100 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: really interesting because I would say yes and though right, 101 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: so like, in terms of the internal environment and Netflix, 102 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: I definitely felt like I had a lot of support 103 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: to be a black person, a trance person, a lesbian, 104 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: you know, loud, you know, someone who dissents very loudly, 105 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 1: things like that. But but one of the complaints I've 106 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 1: always had, and something that obviously is coming up again here, 107 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: is the lack of content. So it was so strange 108 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 1: to be like this internal employee, feel pretty validated, feel 109 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: pretty supported. But then when I looked at the things 110 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: around screen, I didn't see anything that looked like me, 111 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: and that coinn of dissonance was one of the things 112 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: that bothered me most about working there, Right, you know, 113 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: I really wanted to say, like, you know, fresh long 114 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: from Mississippi, they are black, the actually the majority of 115 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: Mississippi is black, right, the majority of Mississippi is also rule. 116 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: You know, why don't we have shows about that? I 117 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 1: watched pe Valley last year and it was so funny 118 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 1: because my friends were like, p Valley doesn't seem like 119 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: your type of show. I was like, it's about it's 120 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: about black people Mississippi. I was so excited. I was like, 121 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: I was like, I finally get to see people who 122 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 1: are like my family, who who that I grew up around. 123 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: And so it was always like that that a little 124 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: bit of like, yes, I feel good because of a 125 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: great benefits, have a great salary, I get to be loud, 126 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: I'm doing some of the best work of my life. 127 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: But no, because I really feel like we're missing the 128 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:19,679 Speaker 1: mark on showing representative lives of diverse types of people. 129 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: Conversations around identity and representation at Netflix did not start 130 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: with Dave Chappelle. Internally, Netflix staffers have been pushing these 131 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: conversations about whose story gets told and by who and 132 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: how for years. Like many companies, Netflix has employee resource 133 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: groups or e r g s, employee lead initiatives within 134 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: a company that work to create inclusivity along certain demographics 135 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: and identities. There's Dream at Netflix to champion immigrant representation, 136 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: Black at Netflix, lah I Am at Netflix, for Jewish 137 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: representation Netflix, pre Veteran representation, Indigenous at Netflix, and more. 138 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: Trans Star is the e r G that champions trans 139 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: identity and representation at Netflix. That be helped lead and 140 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: after the release of the film Girl a twenty nineteen 141 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: Belgian film about a trans ballet dancer that faced criticism 142 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: for its depiction of things like body dysmorphia and self 143 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: harm in the trans community. It's so easy for people 144 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: to think that these conversations happening internally around Netflix and 145 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: the and the content they produced, so and sort of 146 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: the way that the content represents or does not represent 147 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: all folks, you know, trans identities, all of that. It's 148 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: easy to think that those conversations began and ended with 149 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: this Dave Chappelle's special. But we know that's not true. 150 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: Can you give me a little bit of a history 151 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: lesson of where these conversations that Netflix actually did start. 152 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: So the trans specific conversation started around the release of Girl. 153 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: So the Girl movie, it was definitely it was a 154 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: misrepresentation of trans culture. And that's when you know, it 155 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,559 Speaker 1: was almost three years ago. That's when people first started 156 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: asking questions about, hey, like, why do we put that 157 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: out there? This is harmful content. It's not true. It's 158 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: a terrible representation of trans culture. Separately, I was also 159 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: the e r G e r D lead for Black 160 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: At right, and the Black at is the oldest e 161 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: r G out of all the r g s and 162 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: they've been talking about that for like six or seven years, right, 163 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: So the six or seven years they've been talking about 164 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 1: black content, black representation, making sure contents there. So the 165 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: conversation around content and having it be representative is in 166 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: the d n A of Netflix. For diverse people who 167 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 1: have worked there, the question has simply been why the 168 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: heck has it not moved forward? Like, why the heck 169 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: have we not gotten to the point that the content 170 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:39,439 Speaker 1: really reflects all of this This internal debate, internal conversation 171 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: that's been been very very robust, and in fact, when 172 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: you actually think about it, you know, a lot of 173 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: the comments that have been made is, oh, well, Netflix 174 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: is one of the first places that ever had a 175 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: trans person. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, we know when 176 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: Verne was on Orange as a new Black you know, 177 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: we we know you know, know me from since a 178 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: But at the same time, you can only name two 179 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,559 Speaker 1: or three that's probably not a good way to go 180 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: about this, you know. And then we also know when 181 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 1: Laverne was the Orangines and New Bloods, they were dubbing 182 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: her words with men in other countries. What, yes, they 183 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: really did not know that and it was so offensive 184 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: and for instance, trans Star is another great example when 185 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: trans Star was consulted by the dubbing team and they 186 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:24,319 Speaker 1: were like, so, how should we deal with this in 187 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: the future, And we were like, well, you know, we 188 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: understand that in different countries, in different languages, it might 189 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: be difficult to find someone who perfectly matches someone's voice. 190 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: And if that is the case, just ask the person 191 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: what they think, you know, don't don't just make an 192 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 1: arbitrary decision, seek out, support, create relationships, and honor people 193 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 1: by letting them be representing the way that makes most 194 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: sense to them, right. You know, that actually brings up 195 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 1: a good point, which is that I was very surprised 196 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 1: to hear that the trans Employee Resource Group was not 197 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 1: really consulted at all and the rollout of this special 198 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: And so part of me was like, why even have 199 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: this group at Netflix if you're not going to actually 200 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: empower them to be involved when things like this are 201 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: rolled out. And so, for the sake of argument, let's 202 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: say that the trans Employee Resource Group had been consulted 203 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: during this rollout. Are there things that you could have 204 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: seen y'all actually like suggesting to make this less harmful? Yeah, 205 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,439 Speaker 1: And that's been that's actually been the number one point here, 206 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: Like there's no desire to stop creative freedom, right, Like 207 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: the simple fact is their contracts. You you move forward 208 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 1: with the content based on those contracts. But there's no 209 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: desire to stop things. And so when I, you know, 210 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: thought about it, when I first saw it, I was 211 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: just like, why did you all decide to release this 212 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,319 Speaker 1: in October during lgbt Q plus history up, Like that's 213 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: a terrible idea. You know, why did you not think 214 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: about the term turf and how that? Because that became 215 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: the the like Clackson, like that became the thing that 216 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: everyone was focused on. And in fact, it was the 217 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: external groups who were just like, you know, Dave Chappelle's 218 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: a turf. Netflix released this. It was all external people 219 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 1: who were completely incensed that they saw something like that. 220 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: And so it's like, you know, we could have said, 221 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: you know, the trans Star group could have said, by 222 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: the way, you may want to just cut that joke, 223 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: like you know, you may want to like you know, 224 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: tweak that or like asked. And the thing is, and 225 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: when I say that, I mean talk to Dave about 226 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: it and say, Dave, your bigger point is this, like 227 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 1: lgbt Q plus movement versus black movement, and your point 228 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: is gonna get lost because of this statement, right, And 229 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 1: so it's about making the content get to his point 230 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: versus having all of this fure around it. And so 231 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 1: that's the thing. That's what trands Star does, That's what 232 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,839 Speaker 1: trains Star has always offered to do. One of the 233 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: other things that I did is trying to star our 234 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: lead was also to meet with content executives and all 235 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,199 Speaker 1: and I called it the friendship offensive. And all we 236 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,079 Speaker 1: would do is go have conversations with these folks and say, hey, 237 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: we're humans, we're great, we can help you make great content. 238 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,839 Speaker 1: And I'm gonna tell you some of the pieces of 239 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,599 Speaker 1: you know, productions that we worked on. I know for 240 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:02,959 Speaker 1: a fact that they're so much better because we just 241 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: sat down with those people and told them different ways, 242 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: and they would send us emails and say what do 243 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: you think of this? What do you think of that? 244 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: And all we did was consult, you know. It was 245 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: never oh like, you know, we are the the we 246 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: are the barrier to this amazing thing being created. It 247 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,719 Speaker 1: was how can we make it better so that Netflix's 248 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,439 Speaker 1: reputation isn't harm so that trans people aren't harm and 249 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: so that people get a good message out of it. 250 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: That's such a good point, because the only thing I 251 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: have heard about this UH comedy special is the transphobia 252 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,559 Speaker 1: and the turf comments and the and the JK rounding 253 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: comments whatever. The other point David's trying to make it 254 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: did not reach me. It did not reach Twitter, and 255 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: I don't I have to wonder like was that actually hit? 256 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: Like I I feel like if he had been open 257 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: to be thought partners with you all especially, would have 258 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 1: been that much better, that much more, you know, just 259 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: that much more truthful and authentic. And it's like, what 260 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: a missed opportunity to make something better and also less harmful, 261 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: Like what a win win that was just missed. Yeah, 262 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: I mean one of the things I saw someone tweaked. 263 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: They were like, I haven't seen anyone dropped a video, 264 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: a gift, a meme of the special. They had a 265 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: joke in it, and they were like, how can the 266 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: special be successful if they haven't dropped the single one? 267 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: And I was like, you have a point. They've only 268 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: dropped the really incendiary things and so go and so 269 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: to your point is true, Like you know, I do 270 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: feel like the special could have been so much more 271 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: powerful if there had been that partnership, because I do 272 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: think I understand what he's trying to say. I disagree 273 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: with it, right like. And I would say this because 274 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: to a certain instance, the Specials trying to pick LGBTQ 275 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: plus versus a civil rights movement. I am a black 276 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: trans person. I'm at the intersection of these two groups. 277 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: I get screwed over by both groups, right like like 278 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: like legitimately I get screwed over by both groups, and 279 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: so like, I do think that this oppressional olympics, like 280 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: one movement hurting another movement. I don't think that's true. 281 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: In fact, if you think about the same sex marriage 282 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: law that went into affect many years ago, they actually, 283 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: you know, use Loving versus Virginia as part of their 284 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: their logic behind it, because they're saying that minority individuals 285 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: deserve the same rights as anyone else in this country. 286 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: And so I actually think that both the civil rights 287 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: movement lgbt Q rights movement movement are in like, they're 288 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: intrinsically leaning, and we would be empowered by uniting them 289 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: versus assuming that one happens over the other one and 290 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: it just I mean, I completely agree, we're we're definitely 291 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: our movements are stronger together when we support each other, 292 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: and it completely erases people at the intersections, like yourself. 293 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: As something about Dave's comedy seems to suggest that lgbt 294 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: l g it's like that book, all the women are white, 295 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: all the men are black, right, Like, all the LGBTQ 296 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: folks are just default white, all of the black folks 297 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: are default CIS, And it's like it completely erases that 298 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: people exist at those intersections in a way that I 299 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: feel like it's so like n like like get your 300 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: get your attitudes and your ideas into two thousand into one, 301 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: you know, exactly exactly, and the simple effect is and 302 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: you know, I think it was time like three or 303 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: four years ago they were talking about what the future 304 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: of the world's gonna look like, and all those people 305 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: have meling it okay, right, like that's I mean, let's 306 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: just be truthful the way that the world is actually changing, 307 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: the way that it's actually evolving. I mean, even gen Z, 308 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: such a large percentage of gen Z around the world 309 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: is completely open to not only lgbt Q plus people, 310 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: but they're coming out increasingly earlier, right, so you know 311 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: you have like no eight, twelve, fifteen, sixteen, you know 312 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: year olds come out and say, yeah, I'm a part 313 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: of the lgbt Q plus community, which is not something 314 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: that has ever happened before. The world is changing rapidly 315 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: right into the fact that we continue to have these 316 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: very antiquated conversations. It's just very disturbing to me, and 317 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: it's a sign of how some people are, Like this 318 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: is why you have to be thoughtful and you have 319 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: to listen, right, Like I am now considering elder, like 320 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 1: because you know, I'm over a certain age. I'm an 321 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: elder now right in my community, because in the trans 322 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 1: community most like so, there's been a statistic that says 323 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: that many black trans people do not make it to 324 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 1: the age of thirty five. I am not over thirty five, 325 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 1: So I'm like a grandparent. Like that's how that's how 326 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: they perceive me. And it's just so interesting to me 327 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: because even for me, I have to take a step 328 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: back and listen to the younger people because they're like, 329 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: you're more conservative than I am. And I was like, oh, 330 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: I guess I am right, because I grew up in 331 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: a completely different generation I came out much later because 332 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: I was afraid, and you don't have that through mechanism 333 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: that keeps you from being your whole self. And I 334 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: actually admire you. What do you mean me to help 335 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: you with? Because you're so much further along than I was, 336 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 1: and all I'm trying to do is make sure you 337 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: have a stage place that's beautiful. First of all, I 338 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: would have never thought you were over thirty five. That's 339 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 1: so beautiful, you know, So this is that's black, It's 340 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: so true. Let's take a quick break. There are No 341 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: Girls on the Internet is doing a live show on 342 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 1: May at Caveat in New York City and virtually from 343 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: wherever you're at. We'll have amazing guests, a meet and greet, 344 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 1: and much much more. Go to tane got dot com 345 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: slash Live and get your tickets and I cannot wait 346 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 1: to see you there at our Back in Eddie Murphy 347 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 1: released to stand up Special Eddie Murphy Raw and Murphy 348 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 1: has this whole bit about how gay people didn't like 349 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,360 Speaker 1: his home with public jokes and how whenever he goes 350 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: out to parties or out on the town he feels 351 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: like there's going to be a gay mob out looking 352 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: for him, only he doesn't say gay people. He uses 353 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 1: a slur. And it won't be no siren to be 354 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: real facts. And now, something about this line, the idea 355 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 1: of a gay person strapped at the top of a 356 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 1: car as a siren, really stuck with me. And the 357 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: takeaway from me when I was watching was that gay 358 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: people are basically less than human and that pointing this 359 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: out is funny. I mean, like, listen to this crowd. 360 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,479 Speaker 1: They were loving it, and I interpreted that making fun 361 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:31,679 Speaker 1: of gay people was a clear pathway to acceptance from others. Now, 362 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 1: I was watching this when I was just a kid. 363 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: I'd already known that something was up with me, but 364 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: I had not yet come the terms with being a 365 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: queer person. And I watched the way that these kinds 366 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: of jokes about gay people got Eddie Murphy so much loud, 367 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: clear acceptance from other black people, And it was confusing 368 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: to me at a time when I was already really confused. 369 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: In twenty nineteen, and he wore if you actually be 370 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: visited his past homophole bit comedy routines. In an interview 371 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:57,360 Speaker 1: with The New York Times, he said that he looks 372 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: back at all those old jokes and cringes. I was 373 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: a young guy processing a broken heart and kind of 374 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 1: an asshole, he said. He apologized for spreading homophobia and 375 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: ignorant comments about HIV, saying that he's much more educated now. 376 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: I now have a whole lifetime of experiences to draw upon. 377 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: There was a time when I was at the center 378 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: of everything, what I was doing, and how funny I was, 379 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: and how popular I was. I'm not the center anymore, 380 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: he said. Now, instead of rarely against being canceled by 381 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: the PC police, he reflected, he evolved, there's this attitude 382 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 1: I've heard over and over again that what a comedian 383 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: says on stage is just a joke. It doesn't have 384 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 1: any of real world impact. Now, there are scores of 385 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: studies that suggest otherwise, And be put in another way, 386 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: if someone is starting out from a place whereas many 387 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: of the messages around them are telling them that there 388 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 1: aren't even a full person, adding to that chorus makes 389 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: things that much harder. Something that I'm kind of kind 390 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: of almost sick of hearing is this idea that like, oh, 391 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,400 Speaker 1: it's just jokes, it's just jokes. I'm sure I don't 392 00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 1: need to tell you that. Study after study after study 393 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: has own, you know, a direct correlation between transphobic rhetoric 394 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: and anti fans of violence. And so you know, what 395 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:07,959 Speaker 1: do you say to people who are like, oh, how 396 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: many specials don't translate to real world harm? Like, like, 397 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: what do you you? Probably I know that I've heard 398 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: that argument over and over again, Like what do we 399 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 1: say this stuff like that? So, first of all, we 400 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: know that's not true because if that was not if 401 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 1: that was true, then a five year old grudge rated 402 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: our movie, right, Like, we know that the content on 403 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: the screen impacts people. Now, the thing is is that 404 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that, like today, after they watch the special, 405 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 1: they're gonna go out and beat up someone who's trans. 406 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: But that does mean that someone is forming an opinion 407 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 1: about trans people based on the content that they're seeing, 408 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 1: and that they could be discriminatory towards trans people or 409 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,880 Speaker 1: they could be violent towards trans people. Later, we also 410 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: know that the content that exists on the screen also 411 00:21:54,160 --> 00:22:00,040 Speaker 1: internally impacts the people who are the target of that content, right, So, 412 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 1: like you know, we also think about self hard if 413 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 1: you're seeing this type of content, if you're seeing people 414 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 1: talk about this and this type of dialogue, and you 415 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: already are in a place where you're not a whole person, right, 416 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: you know I was when I first started out. I 417 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: used to tell people, you know, naturally I am. I 418 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 1: wake up every day with my glass half empty. Right, 419 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: I'm a diverse person. I'm a multi diverse person. And 420 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: so I hear constantly, whether it's about me being black 421 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: and potentially being less than, Whether it's about me being 422 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: non male and so somehow not being strong, Whether it's 423 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,120 Speaker 1: about me being trans and my differentness there, Whether it's 424 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 1: about me, you know, being married to a woman and 425 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: how different that is. You know, how what is you 426 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 1: like about me being married to a white woman, and 427 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: how I've betrayed my race? Like, all of these things 428 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: are coming through constantly, and so when you put out 429 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: this content, all it's doing is trying to diminish a 430 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,199 Speaker 1: little bit that's in that glass, right, the little bit 431 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 1: of hope and the dreams there. I'm very fortunate because 432 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: I have an amazing support system, and I have an 433 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: amazing amount of education and fiscal ability. Because I've been 434 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: so successful in technology for so long, then I have 435 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: been able to fill that glass back up to almost 436 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: four But many people cannot. And so when you think 437 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,360 Speaker 1: about this content, all it's doing is diminishing the potential 438 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,880 Speaker 1: of those people, and then we lose out on that potential, 439 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: Like as a society, we are literally losing out on 440 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: bright lights who could help change this world because of 441 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: the content we're choosing to push through out there without 442 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: also making sure that we put out affirming content too. 443 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: How hard is it to make another pose? Really, post 444 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: was pretty cheap. It was really cheap. You know, we 445 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,679 Speaker 1: can make like five poses and people would be so happy. 446 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: That's such a good point, and I think it takes me. 447 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: It takes me to this idea. There's obviously bullshit, but 448 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 1: this idea that, oh, these Netflix staffers they want to 449 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 1: cancel Dave Chappelle. But when you actually look at the 450 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 1: demands that staffers were putting forth that Netflix, it's stuff like, 451 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 1: you know, can we invest in a comparable way for 452 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: trans and gender not conforming and non binary creators? You know, 453 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: can we elevate like trans content like the Disclosure documentary, 454 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: which I love, you know, can we can we promote 455 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,719 Speaker 1: that on the platform. It is such common sense things, 456 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: and yet it gets sort of I don't know, telephoned 457 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: into they want to cancel Dave Chappelle, And I guess 458 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: my question is how do we combat this idea when 459 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 1: there are so many people who are just hell bent 460 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: on believing the absolute worst about the intentions here, Because 461 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: when you actually look at the demands, it's just like 462 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 1: what you're saying, like invest in trans and gender not 463 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: conforming creators, and that will actually improve the platform. Netflix 464 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: will be better earth for it. And yet that gets 465 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: sort of mistranslated into something that's just that completely not true. 466 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: I mean, Oprah said it best. Oprah was just like, 467 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: there's just some people who are not gonna convince. Right, 468 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: You're just not going to convince. That's not the people 469 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 1: were trying to convince. We're trying to find that middle 470 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,239 Speaker 1: ground of people, the middle ground of people who are 471 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: still trying to learn to be educated, who just want 472 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: to know more. And so that that's the that's the 473 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,679 Speaker 1: main thing I'm focusing on, right. The reason I agreed 474 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:31,239 Speaker 1: to go on these podcasts and things like that, it's 475 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 1: just spread this message because the people who listen to you, 476 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: the piece of people who are looking looking at the outfits, 477 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: those people are the ones who still have that ability 478 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 1: to be swayed. And the thing about that is is 479 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 1: if if we sway a few of those people, they're 480 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: also related to the mother people, right, And so hopefully 481 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 1: they'll go in and say, hey, I don't want to 482 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: hear that today, right, And and also this new thing. Hopefully, 483 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: if you know, Netflix moves forward with with meeting some 484 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: of these demands, there will be a new piece of 485 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: content out there at some point that they watch as 486 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,719 Speaker 1: a trans character and that they love just because it's 487 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: a good show. And then eventually that will work out 488 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: like this is a long term this is a marathon. 489 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: This is not a short term thing. We're not gonna 490 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: change everyone's mind short term. And the thing is we shouldn't. 491 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,439 Speaker 1: If it was that easy to change people's minds, wouldn't 492 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: be such hard work, right when you think about, you know, 493 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: the other day, will be Obery was talking about the 494 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: civil rights movement and she was talking about the fact 495 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: that if we had waited for people to change their 496 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 1: minds on the value of black people, black people still 497 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,400 Speaker 1: wouldn't have the rights to vote today. And I feel 498 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: as though this is the same as that conversation, the 499 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: same as that conversation that you know, there's still so 500 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: much movement we have to do for trans people, for 501 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: black people, for women, for Latin X people, for Asian people. 502 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: This is a NonStop marathon to have diverse people be 503 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 1: seen as equal and have the equity they deserve in 504 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,360 Speaker 1: this country. The conditions that you are creating, I think 505 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: can create change. That it's lasting, it's meaningful, That is 506 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 1: that reverberates, it is it. It does not begin an 507 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: end with Dave Chappelle's funky special Like. This is a 508 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 1: movement that has that has long, longer term longevity, and 509 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 1: I just like love to see that. And I feel 510 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 1: like in every statement, and you know, the thing that 511 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: the that the staffers have put out that's been so 512 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: salient to me. So I've just loved to see that 513 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: so much. M you know, one of the things that 514 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: I it's kind of a personal pet peeve of mine. 515 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: So many of the people that I talked to on 516 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: this podcast, you know, they are marginalized people, they are 517 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 1: historically underrepresented people. They work in tech companies, tech platforms. 518 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 1: They're the ones who are putting in all this hard 519 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: work of making these companies and these platforms look progressive 520 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: or woke or with it now internally, they might be 521 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: ostracized for this work, they might be punished for this work, 522 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 1: they might be fired for this work. But the companies 523 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,360 Speaker 1: are super okay with taking credit for it and being like, yeah, 524 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: we're a WOTE company, We're so progressive, yeah, all of that. 525 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: You know, do you feel like that's sort of happening here, 526 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: that it is staffers who are already marginalized who are 527 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: making like getting Netflix the shine to be like, oh 528 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: we are with it, wote, progressive, new fresh, all of that, 529 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: but also behind the scenes punishing those same staffers. You know. 530 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:24,679 Speaker 1: The one thing I will say is is that there 531 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: have been an internal movement before I was like, go 532 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: to start rewarding people who worked with E r g 533 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: S financially, right, you know, to to take that into 534 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: account for their review. And it was the first time 535 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: I've ever been at a company that it actually had 536 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: that that conversation. But I will say that this is 537 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: thankless work typically, right, you know, you're doing all this 538 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: work to create an environment that's great, that makes the 539 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: company look great, and a lot of people don't really 540 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: see that as a part of your work, and so 541 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: that's something that needs to change, right because E r 542 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: G work. Not only does it, you know, help the 543 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: company see what's going wrong, but it also helps retain talent. 544 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: I can't tell you how many times I was asked 545 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: to participate in something, whether it was you know, trans 546 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: Star black at that helps make sure that a person 547 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: didn't leave Netflix, right because I was able to help 548 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: negotiate and explain to people what was going on, you know, 549 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: when it came to the company culture, making sure that 550 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: they understood where the culture had issues. You know, that 551 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: type of work is super, super important, and it also 552 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: is something that you know, is it's it's it's invaluable, right, 553 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: It's invaluable. There's no way to calculate how much that 554 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: does for the company. And so I do think that 555 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: this is something companies really need to think about, is 556 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: how do you figure out what that value is because 557 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: it is a differentiator between you retaining someone and not 558 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: retaining someone. People want to work at companies where they 559 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: feel respected and safe. And I think that like that 560 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: is a kind versation that I that I feel like 561 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: it's easy to be missed in this particular situation, is that, 562 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: like I wouldn't it doesn't surprise me that people are 563 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: not necessarily feeling respected, listen to, seeing heard, valued, safe, 564 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: And I feel like these days people are unwilling to 565 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: attach themselves to companies that do not respect them. And 566 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: I think that's great, but people want to feel respected 567 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: in their workplaces. And you know, I saw that statement 568 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: that the CEO of net Let's put out where he 569 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: was like, oh, you know this, I'd handled this badly, 570 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: all of that, but not seeing the way that that 571 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: trickles down to the staff. But at that at the 572 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 1: top decisions make people feel so disrespected and unseen and 573 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: unheard and unvalued. And how there are people like yourself 574 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: who were going in and plugging those leaks and doing 575 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: the work of of doing some recond and saying like, 576 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: you know, are you thinking about leaving? How are you feeling? Like, 577 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: talk to me about where you're at, where you're where 578 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: your head is at. All of that, you know that 579 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: is valuable work. Yeah, And not only that, but also 580 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: his apology, which I will say is not an apology, 581 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: said like one of them was like, Oh, it's because 582 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: we've been working from home. They forgot how good they 583 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: have it. And I was like, that's what an abusive 584 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 1: relationship says, Like you hit me today so that you 585 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: you should appreciate me. And I'm just like, but you 586 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: hit me the other day, Like I don't like it 587 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: doesn't work like that. So yeah, no, I definitely feel like, 588 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: you know, it missed the mark right, because it really 589 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: is more about how do you show up right? You know. 590 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: Folks asked me, like, what should those emails, those first 591 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: memos or emails should have said, And I said, it's 592 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: very simple. It should have said, hey, we dropped the 593 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: ball on this one. We should have done a better job. 594 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 1: Let's talk. And that's three sentences. His actual memo was 595 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: like two pages. Those two pages to say nothing exactly, 596 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: and so like that's the thing. Apologies are just apologies, 597 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: like you don't have to like you don't have it 598 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: does have to be convoluted. You don't have to justify yourself. 599 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: It is apologize, have a conversation, figure out corrective action. 600 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:16,239 Speaker 1: Don't more. After a quick break, let's get right back 601 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: into it. I saw that Dave Chappelle said that he'd 602 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: be willing to meet with Netflix staffers that don't want 603 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: to include you because Netflix fired you unfortunately. Do you 604 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: think that that would be, Like, what do you be 605 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: willing to meet with him. Do you feel like that 606 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: would be fruitful or productive or would that be like 607 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: is that just like not even where your head is out? 608 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 1: I mean I was telling me with him, the whole 609 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: point of this is to educate people, right, And Dave 610 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: says that he cares right like, so that's some part 611 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: of his statements too. He's like, this, this isn't me 612 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: versus them, you know, this is about you know, other things. 613 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: And so I would be glad to meet with him. 614 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: And also I don't have to be there. I could 615 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: also you know, if he wants to reach out, I 616 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: can help him connect with the Netflix people as well, 617 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: because this isn't about me, right, this is about the 618 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: work and then making sure this work gets done. Um. 619 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: And I hope that he would actually listen. And actually 620 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: I think he had mentioned recently he was you know, 621 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: he said something like, but you have to have watched 622 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: the special, and I'm like, well, like, we all have 623 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: either read the transcriptive watched the special, so we've already 624 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: done all of our homework. I would ask him to 625 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: look up what churf ideology actually means, um, and also 626 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 1: understand a little bit more about transgender biology, you know, 627 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 1: just so we can actually start off on the same 628 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: playing field in terms of you know, what we're talking about. 629 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 1: Other than that, I let's go for it. In the 630 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: piece that I've had on your blog, you referenced this 631 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: like really famous um Baldwin quote, to be a new 632 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: girl in this country is to be relatively conscious, and 633 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: to be relatively conscious is to be in the rage 634 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: most of the time. And you kind of had your 635 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 1: own spin on it. You said, to be a black 636 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: trans person in America is a study and courage and 637 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: a fierce desire to not be forgotten. And so it 638 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 1: just seems like black trans folks are so easily erased 639 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: and forgotten, not just in this conversation but everywhere. And 640 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: you know, y'all have always been here. Y'all are part 641 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: of our history. And I guess I wonder do you 642 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: find yourself feeling like you have to constantly create these 643 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: monuments to your existence so that doesn't get erased, And 644 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: not just monuments here existence, but this idea that you know, 645 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 1: black trans existence is more than just like trauma and pain, 646 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,239 Speaker 1: making making sure that there's room for black trans joy, 647 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 1: black trans dreams, black trans brilliance, like how do we 648 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: build monuments to all to the three sixty degrees that 649 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 1: is black transmiss Yeah, you know, it's so funny. I'm 650 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 1: talking to my cousin because you know, my cousin, he 651 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: he was talking about you know, the special and um 652 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,879 Speaker 1: how it didn't hit for him, and we started talking 653 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: about black trans people and on you know, translation remembrance. 654 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:55,359 Speaker 1: The majority of the names that's going to be read 655 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,399 Speaker 1: out as people have been killed this year are black 656 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:01,399 Speaker 1: trans people. And it's so interesting, Becau has those people 657 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 1: are just the people we know about. Those are the 658 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,320 Speaker 1: people who had someone who advocated for them, who said, 659 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: this person was a black person, this person was a 660 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: trans person. Because many people don't have legal name changes, 661 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: like they don't have any they don't have people who 662 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,720 Speaker 1: are affirming of their identity, um to to represent their story. 663 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:25,880 Speaker 1: In fact, I was telling my cousin that I'm so 664 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 1: fortunate because like my legal name is beat, like this 665 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: is the name I chose. My documents show that I'm 666 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: a trans person. There's an entire reflection now in the zeke, 667 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 1: the Zeitgeist. This says that I am being so no 668 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 1: one can take my story from me, right, no one 669 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,360 Speaker 1: can take my story from me. And so that is 670 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,879 Speaker 1: the point, is the fact that so many people live 671 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:53,360 Speaker 1: these amazing, colorful, beautiful lives that are cut short, and 672 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 1: because of the fact that as a society we're not 673 00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: quite where we need to be to understand and be 674 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:03,319 Speaker 1: respectful that identity. Right. It's actually really funny because people 675 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 1: talk about that you should have privacy in your home, 676 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 1: but what we actually talk about, like what we actually 677 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 1: see for black trans people, is as soon as you die, 678 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: your privacy goes away. You become a part of the 679 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: public conversation and they choose who you are. And so 680 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,280 Speaker 1: that's the thing about all of this. This is about choice. 681 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 1: It's like, why do we choose to harm, Why do 682 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,319 Speaker 1: we choose to defame? Why do we choose to let 683 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 1: people be forgotten when we know they existed and they 684 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,800 Speaker 1: should be honored as such. And so that is the 685 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,319 Speaker 1: real core piece of this, And so it is it's 686 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 1: an increasingly frustrating thing for me because he means, you know, 687 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: there's a young man from Mississippi who was killed recently 688 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,800 Speaker 1: and his entire family miss gender him. And it's his family, 689 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 1: it's his chosen family who has done this work to 690 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,400 Speaker 1: get out the message of who he was, and I 691 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,840 Speaker 1: just think it's someone else from Mississippi who is just 692 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: so fortunate that I get to control my or. And 693 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 1: it's like Lis Hamilton's who will tell your story? If 694 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: Hamilton's wife wasn't so bombed, who knows what we would 695 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: know about Alexander Hamilton's right, Like, you know, that's the 696 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: thing that's crazy about this, that's beautiful. The where can 697 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 1: folks support you support black trans folks more broadly, and 698 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,400 Speaker 1: what you folks do to support the Netflix staffers who 699 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 1: are continue to continuing to speak out the first and 700 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,720 Speaker 1: foremost for the Netflix staffers continue to spread the message 701 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,839 Speaker 1: about what's really been asked for. So if you um 702 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,360 Speaker 1: look at Twitter that are trans at Netflix Twitter handle 703 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 1: and so the asker they're continue to share those asks 704 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,440 Speaker 1: so that people can understand what the real ask is. 705 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 1: Here to um watch trans things. So Disclosure documentary is great. 706 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: Also watch post because post really so as as a 707 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,960 Speaker 1: young young black TAM's person coming up the post that 708 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: actually definitely represents a lot of my communities that I 709 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,759 Speaker 1: first met and who who helped me become cool because 710 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,879 Speaker 1: I was a dork. Um, So I think that's really 711 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 1: great to support, like trans content, especially posed to UM. 712 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 1: And then for just generally, this is just the beginning, right, 713 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:13,799 Speaker 1: So this is just the beginning. So there's a lot 714 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 1: of organizations out there. So trans Lifeline is a great organization. 715 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 1: How are Brown Help in Chicago is one of the 716 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: premier institutions treating trans folks and doing research on trans books. UM. 717 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 1: The Transgeneral Law Center is also an amazing place to 718 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 1: support to they're doing really really great work. GLAD is 719 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: a great place to support because they're trying to help 720 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 1: talk about this media representation and change that. And then 721 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,280 Speaker 1: for me, I'm b Pagal's minor everywhere. Follow me on Twitter, 722 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,239 Speaker 1: you know, because that's rarely where I post a lot 723 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,920 Speaker 1: of content that I find that I think is very interesting. 724 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,800 Speaker 1: They can help people understand a little bit more context 725 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,759 Speaker 1: as well. UM, But first and foremost, educate yourself. You know, 726 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 1: if there's a curiosity that you have that you don't 727 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,800 Speaker 1: really know what's going on, chances are there the document, 728 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,160 Speaker 1: there's someone who's tweeting about there's someone who can help 729 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 1: give you that context so that you can feel more comfortable, because, 730 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 1: like you know, this is a long journey, Like you know, 731 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:10,319 Speaker 1: It's definitely not something that you figure out overnight. Mm hmm. Okay, 732 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,320 Speaker 1: I actually have one last curveball question for you. You 733 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,880 Speaker 1: strike me as someone who likes movies, likes TV, likes music. 734 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,840 Speaker 1: Do you remember a time when a piece of media 735 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,400 Speaker 1: or piece of content or piece of art made you 736 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 1: feel seen and affirmed. Post is a great example of 737 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 1: something for me where I cried when I first saw it, 738 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 1: Like I could not believe that those were the like 739 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: the drag shows, the ballroom. I was just like, this 740 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:42,680 Speaker 1: is this is literally what I first got exposed to, right, 741 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 1: So this is before I came out of trans because, 742 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,360 Speaker 1: like I was, I refused to acknowledge the fact that 743 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 1: I was trans. And I was in Memphis, Tennessee. I 744 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 1: was home from college and my mother, my mother of 745 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: all people, took me to the club to see a 746 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,840 Speaker 1: drag show because she was just like, I feel like 747 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 1: you need to see this. I like, Mama's no, they no, 748 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:05,239 Speaker 1: And so like I end up going to this drag 749 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,759 Speaker 1: show with my mother, which is really bomb, and I 750 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: met a bunch of like a bunch of like the 751 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,160 Speaker 1: drag community, you know, who were also trans. And so 752 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,759 Speaker 1: some of the first things imposed like literally feel like 753 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,719 Speaker 1: they were exactly the exact same scene from when I 754 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 1: first came out or when I first started to discover 755 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,880 Speaker 1: that maybe I might be different, and so that's a 756 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,960 Speaker 1: huge thing. And the second example, which is like really 757 00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,319 Speaker 1: strange and I don't know why I feel this way 758 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:36,080 Speaker 1: about this, but the second example is purple right. I 759 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 1: think it's because of Princess Androgyny and so like I 760 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,120 Speaker 1: kind of felt like, you know, I was like I 761 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 1: felt a little scene. And also it was so complicated, 762 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 1: right because he was like this brilliant artist, but he's 763 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 1: also so like messed up, and like I just felt 764 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,399 Speaker 1: like I just really got it because like I just yeah. 765 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,959 Speaker 1: And so I mean I watched I rewatched that movie 766 00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,560 Speaker 1: like probably multiple times a year, and the the whole 767 00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,840 Speaker 1: soundtrack is like, that's my sound track if I'm in 768 00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:02,360 Speaker 1: a I Gotta. I Gotta was the best contract. So 769 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,239 Speaker 1: the you are, you have no idea if if I 770 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,240 Speaker 1: could turn you around and show you all the different 771 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 1: Prince iconography in my apartment, Purple rain is my thing. 772 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,320 Speaker 1: Prince is my thing. And again, like it, Prince was 773 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 1: someone who made me feel seen, especially in the black community, 774 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,040 Speaker 1: because you know, I grew up in the South, and 775 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:22,759 Speaker 1: I grew up with my uncle making gay jokes and 776 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,440 Speaker 1: using slurs, and everybody liked Prince like it didn't like 777 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,440 Speaker 1: even though there was a Prince was androgynous. Even though 778 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,520 Speaker 1: Prince was like, as my uncles would say, fruity, people 779 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 1: fucked with Prince. And so to see the power that 780 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:39,759 Speaker 1: he had in our community was it was intoxicating. I 781 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:43,840 Speaker 1: completely feel you on the prints, completely feel you, and 782 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,960 Speaker 1: you know, and you could get anybody he wanted, man, woman, 783 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 1: like anybody in the whole world. I'm pretty sure Prince 784 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:52,640 Speaker 1: could walk into a room and just look at you. 785 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 1: You'd be like, I, okay, where we don't go? Yeah, 786 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,320 Speaker 1: that's I think that's the other part of it is 787 00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,239 Speaker 1: that it just completely redefined with masculinity, what femininly, what 788 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,359 Speaker 1: everything was. And I think that that's one of those 789 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,839 Speaker 1: things that he probably did more work or so many 790 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,040 Speaker 1: different types of people than almost any other artist. And 791 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,719 Speaker 1: he would be drawing to not a woman, not a man. 792 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:19,359 Speaker 1: Something you'll never understand. The power of art, I mean, 793 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 1: the power of representation, of power of art, the power 794 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:29,560 Speaker 1: of creativity. It's it's unmatched. If you're looking for ways 795 00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:31,799 Speaker 1: to support the show. Check out our March store at 796 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,560 Speaker 1: tangodi dot com. Slash Store. Got a story about an 797 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,440 Speaker 1: interesting thing in tech? I just want to say Hi. 798 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:39,879 Speaker 1: You can reach us at Hello at tangodi dot com. 799 00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,600 Speaker 1: You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangodi 800 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,719 Speaker 1: dot com. There Are No Girls on the Internet was 801 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,120 Speaker 1: created by me Bridget Todd. It's a production of I 802 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:51,280 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Unboss Creative, edited by Joey Pat Jonathan 803 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,280 Speaker 1: Strictland as our executive producer, Terry Harrison as our producer, 804 00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: and sound engineer. Michaelmato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, 805 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,520 Speaker 1: Bridget Todd. If you want to help us, throw rate 806 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 1: and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from 807 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,280 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio, check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast 808 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:11,880 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. H