WEBVTT - Episode 3: The Takedown 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:15.960 Campsite Media. In November, Derek's money runner was arrested by police. 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:18.640 The runner was on his way back from Ontario, where 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:22.239 he met Derek's buyer, another Mohawk named Jason Hill, and 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:24.239 the trunk of the car was a bag full of 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:27.720 cash payment for the tobacco shipments Derek had sent to Jason. 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:31.720 I just figured they were watching down at Jason's place 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:35.720 because there's so many trucks going in and add it 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:41.600 here bringing tobacco because there basically the headquarters of of 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:44.639 the cigarettes. A lot of the cigarettes are coming from 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:48.680 there coming back to here to the Quebec side. So 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:51.640 I thought they were watching him. So he really didn't 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:53.880 have like any suspicion that they were in a fallback 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:56.360 on you with all this. Well no, I mean if 0:00:56.400 --> 0:01:00.360 I did, I probably wouldn't have sent anymore. Derek was 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:03.040 upset about having to stomach the loss, but it didn't 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:05.600 stop him from keeping the business going. He had no 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:08.160 idea that he was a major target for an undercover 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:11.240 sting operation. I noticed the cops in that we're following 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:14.039 us around, but they're always around here, so it was 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:18.720 nothing really new to me. Since Derek first appeared on 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:22.440 the project Miguel Radar investigators have collected hundreds of hours 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:25.759 of wire tap phone calls and thousands of texts. Undercover 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:28.240 police were now deeply embedded in the operation and the 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:31.400 scope of the criminal organization was finally coming into focus. 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:34.160 There were no dozens of people caught in the Migael 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:38.000 web and cops were getting ready to spring the trap. Jimmy, 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:41.240 the anonymous investigator who worked on Migael, helped plan the 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:46.000 final operation. It takes weeks of planning. You gotta vit 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:48.520 the agencies. You've gotta viet the officers, you gotta vet 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:50.880 the sequence in which you're gonna take them down. You 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:53.160 typically want to take down the people that would be 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:56.560 most violent first, so hopefully they don't get word uh 0:01:56.760 --> 0:02:01.000 and and and load up. So the plan adding the 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:05.560 execution is tremendous, right down to we gotta have breakfast 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:07.520 for guys because we're bringing them in at two o'clock 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:14.000 in the morning. The scope is massive, from tactical units 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:18.960 um dealing with guys that may have guns too. How 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:22.880 much Timmy's doughnuts are we gonna get? Those raids needed 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:25.200 to all be conducted at the same time. Every door 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:27.200 that needed to be kicked, needed to be kicked at 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:29.639 the same time. The first thing you want him to 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:31.840 know is you're screwing your gun in his ear. And 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:36.240 that's it. At least from my perspective. With informants on 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:41.799 the reservations and friends and law enforcement, nobody had a 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:50.000 clue this was happening. It was It was brilliant. Were 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:52.560 you taken by surprise? Did you know is coming? Well? 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:57.679 We knew eventually, Uh, it was gonna happen because it's 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:02.000 not the first time that you know what they targeted, Uh, 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:05.440 the reserve because a lot of tobacco was coming into 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:10.160 this reserve and a lot of others. But we know 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:14.080 eventually it was going to happen because there was so 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:21.560 much surveillance going on for months and months at a time. Um, 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:25.560 I used to see it all the time undercovers. He 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:28.480 just they stick out like a sore thumb. You know, 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:32.040 it's just a matter of time that it was gonna happen, 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.400 like I said, And it's just who where are they 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:39.200 gonna grab? The way Derek saw it, it wasn't gonna 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:42.360 be him. He wasn't doing anything wrong. He'd been in 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:45.600 the business for years. Why would they go after him. Now, 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:47.680 that was a middleman, That's all I was. And I 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:52.920 was dragged into this this mess through those other guys 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:56.600 that were being investigated doing other things. And it just 0:03:56.640 --> 0:04:01.160 so happens that I bought stuff off those ice and 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:03.880 I was dragged into all their bull crap and all 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:12.920 their people that were doing bad things. From the Hipside 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:38.240 media and Dan Patrick Productions. This is running Smoke. I'm 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:44.119 Roger Gola and this is episode three, The Takedown. Derrick 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:47.240 White had spent nearly his whole life around the tobacco industry. 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:49.680 In a place like Gnawaga, it was actually hard not 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.680 to get involved with cigarettes. He started out helping his 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:55.560 grandma sale cartons in the driveway as a teenager, and 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:57.680 later on, when he built up his first gas station, 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:01.200 he started selling cigarettes inside, and for years that was 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.240 his only involvement with the industry, just selling cigarettes in 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:07.440 his stores tax free to individual buyers like you or me. 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:10.840 But in the late two thousands, Derek wanted to take 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:13.159 his racing career to the next level and he was 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:16.240 looking for another revenue stream when a friend recommended that 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:19.919 Derek get into the business of wholesale tobacco instead of 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:23.279 selling to consumers. He would sell raw tobacco to cigarette 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:28.000 manufacturers in Mohawk Territories. It's very expensive to racing, so 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:32.720 I mean, like any little bit you know helps, and 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:34.680 I figured it's an old brainer. I mean, this is 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:39.400 what we've been doing for forever. So I said, uh, 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:42.279 let me, let me try to sell. Derek went down 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:45.200 to a casino in the Aguasas named Mohawk Territory, and 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:48.000 there he was introduced to a man named Samuel Baker, 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:51.640 a tobacco broker from North Carolina. We tried to reach 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:54.200 out to Sam Baker, but he didn't respond to our requests. 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:57.280 In any case, Derek says he struck a deal with 0:05:57.279 --> 0:06:00.680 sam and started wiring in money for truckloads of brought tobacco. 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:04.560 Can you explain a bit of what that whole tobacco 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:08.440 business looked like and what your role in that was, like, 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:10.599 how did it work and how much of it were 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:13.799 you personally involved in? I mean, it's no secret. Money 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:18.839 was sent to the States, sent to a broker. The 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:21.919 broker would go and buy it at the factory wherever 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:26.119 they wherever they they they growed to tobacco or whatever 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:28.800 they loaded up in the trucks, and they shipped it 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:32.680 across and when they when they pull up at my door, 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:38.000 I was just paying it, just like anything else. You figured, Hey, 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:42.400 everything's uh, everything's culture, would it you know, what's everything's 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:45.239 paid for? Derek thought he was totally in the clear. 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:47.840 He knew that Canada levy to federal excise tax on 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:50.719 every tobacco ship and as trucks crossed the border, but 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:54.240 that wasn't his problem. Derek only took possession of the 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:58.800 tobacco after it crossed the border. Normally, um, it's the 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:02.560 exporter or uh, the guy driving the truck or the 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.440 company takes care of all the taxes and everything. So 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:09.000 when it's delivered to my place, you hire a broker. 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:11.320 They take care of everything. They give you a price. 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:14.360 It's this price. You figure, okay, well it's on my doorstep. 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:16.520 Now it's all paid. You know why. I don't have 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:19.559 to worry about anything after that. In the beginning, Derek 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:21.640 says he didn't even know how the tobacco got across 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:24.160 the border. He turned a blind eye to that entire 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:26.360 part of the operation, and as far as he knew, 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:29.000 it was all being handled above board. I thought there 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:30.920 was no risk because they told me they were doing 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:33.400 it all legal and as long as I made a 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:36.200 you know, a couple of bucks on it, it was 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:38.360 it was worded. They told me it was guaranteed to 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:41.680 get here, so I took their word for it. But 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:44.320 as things went along, Derek started getting a peek behind 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:47.000 the curtain and found himself drawn deeper into the operation. 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.360 In one instance, Derek says the tobacco broker asked him 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:53.120 to find a warehouse in New Jersey. Derek claims he 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:56.320 didn't know why they needed it, but according to investigators, 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:59.559 the warehouse was used to swap tobacco between trailers behind 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.640 clothes wars, making it more difficult for law enforcement to 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:04.920 keep track of the shipments, sort of like a three 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:10.440 card Monty. I was able to find somebody that has 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:12.400 a warehouse that could store it there, and the other 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:14.880 guys google pick it up, so they would only go 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:17.560 like halfway. That's all I did. I mean, that was 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:20.119 my that was my part of the thing, and say okay, 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:22.840 well there's a place here. They dropped it off and 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:27.800 whoever picked it up picked it up. Then the transporters 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:30.640 started asking for ten thousand dollars in cash on top 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:33.160 of the usual fee. Derek soon learned that it was 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:35.920 being used to create false paperwork for the truck drivers. 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:39.040 Paperwork that stayed of the trucks were full of fruits 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:43.120 and vegetables. Things look shady, but Derek sent the money. Anyway. 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:45.760 You can't argue with these guys. If not, they'll just say, 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:49.320 well tough, They're gonna keep whatever product they have in 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:52.960 the truck, and they're just gonna keep it. They they 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:56.400 basically just said, mind your own business, we're gonna get 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:58.920 it to you. So I had no choice. I had 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:02.000 to pay them whatever they on it. It was clear 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.120 that things were getting into a gray area, getting a 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:08.400 little risky, but Derek wasn't dissuaded. In fact, he got 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:12.520 a kick out of it. It's almost like, how do 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:14.840 you say, the first time you do it, then the 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:18.319 second times like okay. It's almost like a drug addict. 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:22.439 Basically you try a drug and then boom, you want 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:24.120 to do it again. You want more, you want more, 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:33.000 That's all it was. After a few years of doing 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:35.560 business with his brokers in North Carolina and his buyer 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.640 in Ontario, Derek ran into a race car driver named 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:41.439 Paul Jehan Derek struck up a deal to rent his 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:44.240 race cars to Paul John for thirty tho dollars a weekend, 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:47.800 but after a few weeks Paul was behind on payments. 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:50.800 Paul asked if you could pay with raw tobacco instead, 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:54.400 and Derek said, sure, why not. A truck arrived at 0:09:54.400 --> 0:10:00.280 his warehouse soon after when Paul Jean freaking brought first 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:02.280 load at the back. But that's when they started doing 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:07.480 investigation on me. It turns out Paul Jean was working 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:10.599 with a guy named Silvan et Tier, allegedly the mastermind 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:14.360 behind a massive tobacco smuggling operation. So when Derek received 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.680 tobacco from Paul Jean, it was actually Sylvan et Tiers 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:21.480 organization that was delivering it, and Sylvan Etier was one 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:24.800 of the main targets of Project My Gael. Undercover cops 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:27.480 were on him like flies on ship. One of the 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:30.720 trailers that they followed ended up coming to my place. 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:35.280 So right from there they saw, okay, well we gotta 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:37.360 link this guy with these guys, you know, and we 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:39.320 had nothing to do with them. All they were doing 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:41.880 is they were dropping it off and they were gone. 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:49.560 It was tobacco, plain and simple. Hold on, We'll be 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:59.000 right back. You're listening to Running Smoke media. As Derek 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:01.520 mentioned earlier, he was far from the first person to 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:05.440 be targeted in an operationally project. Mygale, Gonna Wagga has 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:08.600 been under intense scrutiny from law enforcement for decades because 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:11.680 of its relationship with tobacco. I wanted to get a 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.640 better sense of how the Mohawks cigarette industry worked and 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:18.000 what life was like in the legal gray area. So 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:20.559 I drove out on the backgrounds of Gonawaga and ended 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:22.319 up in front of a Quanta hut with a blacked 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:26.199 out Humby and an escalade sitting out front. Do you 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:28.720 mind introducing yourself and telling us where we are? My 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:31.680 name is Gonna de Ross and you're in Gonna Wa 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:38.040 get Mohawk Territory and you're at my tobacco facility, and uh, 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:40.480 what's uh? What's going on here? What's what do you 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:46.400 do here? Well, we manufacturer cigarettes quite a few of 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:50.160 different brands, so we take it right from the cut product, 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:51.760 the cut tobacco, all the way through the end to 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:55.560 a finished product. As soon as the factory door swung open, 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:58.040 it was smacked in the face with the smell of tobacco. 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:00.480 It felt like walking into a t G I fridays 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:03.319 in Daytona when you can still smoke inside. And about 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:06.120 how many cigarettes a year do you produced a year? 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:09.840 I I wouldn't be able to tell you weekly. I 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:13.240 mean on a good week, maybe seven dred cases a week. 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:17.800 There's ten cigarettes in a case. There are these all 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:23.040 sold all the reservation. Yes, yes, how doeschine? It looks 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:26.480 like it's from the sixties, from the ages, actually, But 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:28.840 I made a lot of machines. They may look old, 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:31.839 they may look a off. What machines are machines. They 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:35.800 get the job done. You know, is it difficult to 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:38.640 get machines into get a log it? Well it was 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:42.439 at one point, but you know the write people, you 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:47.880 can get anything into gonna log. And dal should know 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:51.680 because before he was a full fledged cigarette manufacturer, he 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:54.800 was a smuggler. Oh. When I was smuggling, it was 0:12:54.920 --> 0:13:00.040 like almost a free for all. I loved it. It 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:02.599 was action. Every day you're on a boat full of 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:08.040 full of cigarettes, get a taste by cops. It was 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:11.000 never us, but there was a gunshots and sometimes in 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:15.440 a certain area other crews. I guess a little crazier. 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:21.240 In the eighties and nineties, brand name cigarettes were smuggled 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:24.280 across the St. Lawrence River. Smugglers were making use of 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:27.440 the quirky geography of the U. S. Canadian border, which 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:30.240 cuts right through the middle of the Agua Sasany Mohawk Territory, 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:33.560 a couple hours drive from Nawaga. There were no border 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:36.160 guards or customs agents on the territory, so you could 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.520 easily smuggled cartons of cigarettes from the American side across 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:41.960 the river to the Canadian side, where they could then 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:45.360 be distributed to Mohawk territories across the country. But it 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:48.440 was still risky business because as soon as the tobacco 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:51.160 left the territory, it was fair game for the police. 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:53.800 Get all your shiploaded up and ready to go, and 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:57.200 then you got the highway to deal with it, sending 0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:03.280 all dozens of cars spotters. Guys don't a few kilometers 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:09.800 with binoculars, watching what's coming, what's going, just hoping all 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:15.040 your cars make it. Yeah, those are some good days, 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:23.280 crazy days. The risk was worth it. Candidates started taxing 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:25.320 the hell out of cigarettes, and if you could manage 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:27.680 to smuggle them into the reserve from the states, you 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:30.400 can sell them much cheaper and pocket a hefty profit. 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:34.480 But here's something that might surprise you. The biggest boosters 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:38.560 for the Mohawk cigarette industry were actually big tobacco companies themselves, 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:43.120 specifically r J. Reynolds and its subsidiaries. If I was 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:45.600 younger at the time, I probably you didn't know what 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:49.120 was going on. You see all the main brands like 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:55.000 Mark ten, the Moriad exports, but uh they were. They 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:57.960 were all in on that too. Despite what you might 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.000 think about big tobacco companies to not as honest and 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:04.479 upstanding as they might seem. And back in the nineties, 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:07.960 when Canada hiked up cigarette taxes, big tobacco was not 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:12.080 happy higher taxes and fewer sales, and that's not something 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:16.080 any self respecting cigar shopping executive can stomach. They needed 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:18.480 to find a way to sell cheaper cigarettes, and Agasas 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:22.560 Territory provided a solution. R J. Reynolds and its subsidiary 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:26.160 companies would send their Canadian products to America, sidestepping the 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:29.600 Canadian taxes. Those cigarettes were then taken to the Aga 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:32.680 Sasan Territory, which sits on the border, and then Mohawk 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:35.800 smugglers would bring those cigarettes back into Canada, where they 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:39.840 would be sold on reservation cheaper than anywhere else. Smokers 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:43.200 got cheaper cigarettes. R J. Reynolds recouped its losses, and 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:46.280 Mohawk entrepreneurs made a hell of a lot of money. 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.840 It was a pretty ingenious and elegant solution. Within a 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:52.840 few short years, smoke shops lined all the main roads 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:55.600 of Gnawaga, and the ripple effects of the new economy 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:58.840 were impossible to miss. At one point, I'd say at 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:02.560 least three quarters of the reserve was employed. Boy, this 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:07.560 this industry and all people are building new homes by 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:12.680 a new cars. You see it. Nowadays, we're you know, 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:15.240 people are building nicer homes and bigger homes. They got 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:18.360 the money to do it. Then one day it just 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:24.520 all ended, all stopped. Eventually, the law caught up to R. J. 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:26.960 Reynolds and slapped him with the lawsuit filed under the 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:30.000 Rico Act, the same law used to take down mafia's 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:33.760 and gangs. After decades of litigation, R J. Reynolds was 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:37.680 fined four million dollars. But, more importantly for our story, 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:41.000 the steady stream of brand name cigarettes that Mohawks had 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:44.560 depended on for years had dried up. But that just 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:47.440 meant folks had to get creative. Why take the chance 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:50.080 and smuggling the cigarettes from one reserve to the next 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:53.720 when you can make it here, right, Mohawk entrepreneurs started 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:57.760 ordering cigarette rolling machines and building up factories just like dios, 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:05.240 and now today it's probably upwards of twenty twenty locations, 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:08.480 all different sizes. You know, you could have a bigger 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.400 facilities all the way on until somebody running in a garage. 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:14.679 But that's not to say that rolling your own cigarettes 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:17.600 is perfectly risk free, because you still need to get 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:21.320 tobacco into Gnawaga, and most tobacco sellers in Canada or 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:26.359 the US won't sell to unlicensed facilities. So Mohawk manufacturers 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:29.520 have to get creative with their supply chain, which isn't 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:33.040 always looked upon kindly by the Canadian government. This, I 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:35.960 think this industry is like playing a chess game with 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:39.119 the government. So you know, they always make their moves. 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:42.480 We ought to make our moves, try and be ten 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:44.840 steps ahead of them, so to speak. You know, so 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:50.680 sometimes the reserve will be dry, it'll be hard to 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:53.120 get to back win here because they might have put 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:55.800 something new in place to try to install the system, 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:58.199 or and then other times in a year, it's just 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:00.560 like the floodgates open. Somebody comes up with a new 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:04.280 system that you know, the cops aren't onto it yet, 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:07.480 they run it, they run it hard. What's it like 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:10.560 to kind of have your entire life in the gray 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:14.560 zone of walking that line of what the government considers 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.840 legal and illegal. Like I said, it could be a 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.879 rush for some people. For me, when I was younger, 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:25.200 it was a rush. What I can't handle the rush anymore, 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:29.199 And a lot a lot of people probably pulled out 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:32.080 of this business tool for that reason, you know, just 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:34.800 too much to worry about all the time, getting harassed 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:40.040 at the border, getting harassed every everywhere. Now I hear 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:42.679 what you're saying. A former smuggler who drives around and 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:45.119 blacked out Humby and runs a cigarette factory deep in 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:48.320 the woods might be badass. But why don't we zoom 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:50.040 out a bit and talk to someone with a bit 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:52.560 of distance on the issue, someone who's examined it from 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.600 an outside perspective. My name is James Dixon. I am 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:58.080 a full professor in the Department of Long Legal Studies, 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:02.040 at Carlton University, right or bringing out the big guns. Baby, 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:05.280 She's got degrees. There's an s on the end of 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:10.040 that multiple degrees. What's more, Jane has spent her career 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:13.399 focused on Indigenous rights and cross border issues, and she 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.320 sees the criminalization of tobacco smuggling as more of a 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:20.720 political issue than a legal one. This activity is only 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:26.040 criminalized because governments have chosen to criminalize it. The cross 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:31.359 border economy is, for many uh Indigenous people and many 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:37.960 many Mohawk people, um, not just a mode of economic development. 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:44.359 It is also a fundamental right that extends to the 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:48.719 Mohawk people as indigenous people. UM. It is also simply 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:52.000 the continuation of a practice that predates the border. And 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:54.560 so you know, there's another reason to go, well, you 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:58.400 know what, maybe it's really interesting that governments weren't ever 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:01.920 able to support this kind of elpment. So now, acting 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:05.800 on a traditional historical right, this community is building itself 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:09.800 up in really positive ways in Canada at least, um, 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:13.120 we seem to get very upset with Indigenous people who 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:18.640 get wealthy. Were it not for the presence of that 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:23.040 border and the presence of settler governments on either side 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:28.720 of that border, this economy would not be UM, not 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:33.280 be referred to, not stigmatized or labeled as essentially a 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:38.280 form of criminal enterprise. The wealth that Gnawaga generated with 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:41.359 a tobacco trade and later on with casinos meant that 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:44.320 they could stand on their own feet financially, and in 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:46.400 that way they sort of been an example that other 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:52.439 Indigenous communities have looked up to within Canada. In recent history, 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:58.879 the Mohawks have been one of the strongest and most 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:04.160 activists voices in terms of leading the way in terms 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:09.159 of demanding equality, demanding respect for their rights, and just 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:13.320 generally not putting up with any ship that makes them 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:18.439 very dangerous. And so, you know, what better way to 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:26.160 limit the power of the Mohawk nation to lift up 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:30.919 all indigenous nations UH in Canada and maybe you know, 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:33.720 even over the border in the in the northern United States, 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:37.439 UM then to criminalize them and present them all as 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:39.920 a threat and present them all as you know, somehow 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:43.840 not only a threat to to the economy, you know, 0:21:43.880 --> 0:21:48.879 and the supposedly a threat to massive incredibly wealthy corporations. Right, 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:55.840 everything that we do to UM make ourselves better as 0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:59.560 smuggling or illegal or you know criminal Steve Bonspiel of 0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:03.400 the Eastern Dorm newspaper, which covers news across several Mohawk territories. 0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:06.359 That's the way they determ it because to make it 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:08.680 make sense to them, I mean, it all comes down 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:11.360 to tax dollars, right, I mean it's it's uh, they 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:14.280 feel they're losing out in the tax dollars. They're the 0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:16.800 ones that are getting paid from the resources from our lands, 0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:20.679 you know, building on our lands, um paying taxes to 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:23.800 their own uh you know, communities and whatever to build 0:22:23.840 --> 0:22:27.280 up their communities, not ours. And meanwhile we're getting left behind. 0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:29.720 So we've been pushing this corner. You know, it's like 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:33.040 what else were we supposed to do? Naturally, there's a 0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:36.480 pretty contentious relationship between Mohawks and the tobacco trade and 0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:39.480 the Canadian government, which says the entire industry is illegal. 0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:42.440 And it also means there's a constant high level law 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:46.360 enforcement presence around Gnawaga. If you could talk a bit 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:51.000 about how the police presence and the surveillance in your 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:54.560 day to day as you conduct this business, that's one 0:22:54.720 --> 0:22:58.880 thing that makes me really think about leaving the business. 0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:04.840 Every day we have helicopters over my house. They're just 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:10.040 hovering there. They're watching. You know, you go outside, you're 0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:13.960 always her asked by the police. And when the cops 0:23:13.960 --> 0:23:16.400 see us, they don't know any better. They go buy 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:19.920 what they read in my headlines. So they treat everybody 0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:24.040 here a lot harder than the outside. So they're always honest. 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:28.800 I mean, they're here undercover every day. We know what 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:32.240 they're capable of. They were at my front door without 0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:36.160 me even knowing they've been in this building would help 0:23:36.200 --> 0:23:44.000 me knowing, So I hope you're not a cop. It's 0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:48.200 in our DNA here to hate the Canadian government, the 0:23:48.200 --> 0:23:54.080 provincial police, the RCMP. It's just built in us man. 0:23:55.640 --> 0:23:58.320 So it's like growing up, you know, you hear all this, 0:23:58.480 --> 0:24:02.880 and and it's even me talking about it my kids here. 0:24:04.200 --> 0:24:05.879 But I'm not ashamed to say it in front of 0:24:05.920 --> 0:24:10.640 my kids because it's the truth. You know. We told 0:24:10.680 --> 0:24:15.359 him how how these police are around here. I've been 0:24:15.480 --> 0:24:19.480 arresting myself Back in two pols and fourteen. It was 0:24:19.520 --> 0:24:23.480 a sting operation very similar to Project Migale. Four hundred 0:24:23.520 --> 0:24:27.040 officers swept across Canada and arrested nearly thirty people. They 0:24:27.040 --> 0:24:30.280 suspected of smuggling tobacco and having connections with the organized 0:24:30.320 --> 0:24:33.920 crime deal. Was one of eight Mohawks arrested in the sting. 0:24:34.560 --> 0:24:37.480 In the end, he took a pleteo, but he insists 0:24:37.480 --> 0:24:40.040 that his only business was tobacco and that he wasn't 0:24:40.080 --> 0:24:42.520 involved with any of the shadier characters in the raid. 0:24:43.480 --> 0:24:47.520