Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't know. I'm stories of things we
Speaker 1: simply don't know the answer too. Hey, this is Steve
Speaker 1: as always, I'm joined by and this is Thinking Sideways
Speaker 1: the podcast. I know it's it's crazy, but it is.
Speaker 1: And we've got another fairly unsolved mystery. I would say,
Speaker 1: but wait, Joe, what's your patent? DeLine and I we're
Speaker 1: gonna crack this one like a walnut. Yeah, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I was. I was. I'm not on my top games. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's okay, that's all right. Before I get going into this,
Speaker 1: this story is a listener suggestion and it's actually one
Speaker 1: of the early suggestions that we got. But I've held
Speaker 1: hold off because I kept going to it and then
Speaker 1: coming back to it, really trying to wrap my head
Speaker 1: around this story because it's it's a little a little hard,
Speaker 1: it's outside of my wheelhouse. He did. Yeah, and our
Speaker 1: like little spreadsheet of listener suggestions it said, you know,
Speaker 1: Steve is doing the show, right, but like we've been
Speaker 1: looking at it, you know, Dibbs, it like what a
Speaker 1: year ago, and we've just been you know, sitting on
Speaker 1: it and sitting on and waiting the government. That's why
Speaker 1: we've been sitting on. Yeah, that check did not arrive
Speaker 1: this month, so so you uncle Sam. Yeah, Well, regardless,
Speaker 1: I do want to say thanks to Ed who emailed
Speaker 1: this story in it it's actually an interesting one. And
Speaker 1: what we're going to talk about is Gary McKinnon, and
Speaker 1: he is Gary McKinnon, and his story is a little
Speaker 1: hard to follow. But let's let's just kind of we'll
Speaker 1: set it up and we'll do the best we can
Speaker 1: with this because there's some there's a lot of UFOE
Speaker 1: talking this just a little bit. Devin is very there's
Speaker 1: a lot of like the whole story actually concerns more
Speaker 1: legal stuff than actually well and I've proven some of
Speaker 1: that out, so well, no, we don't need to go
Speaker 1: through all of those legal travails. Now, well, let's let's
Speaker 1: have quite a few of them. Yeah, but let's let's
Speaker 1: just start here. So the story with Gary McKinnon starts
Speaker 1: before eleven in this country happened, um were that is
Speaker 1: correct in case any of our listeners are not aware
Speaker 1: of a few months after the World Trade Centers were attacked.
Speaker 1: UH strange meshes appears on some U. S. Army computers
Speaker 1: and it says, quote, your security is crab I'm so
Speaker 1: loo I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels unquote,
Speaker 1: which really kind of bugged some people since everybody is
Speaker 1: a little wigged out that we've had this giant uote
Speaker 1: terrorist attack at that point and this case, you know,
Speaker 1: mcannon was doing them a favored by letting them know how,
Speaker 1: you know, and the military is historically their cybersecurity has sucked.
Speaker 1: I sure hope they've cleaned up their acts. Hope so too.
Speaker 1: And there I'm gonna let our listeners tell our listeners
Speaker 1: about this really interesting book is called The Cuckoo's Egg
Speaker 1: by a guy named Cliff Stole s t O l L.
Speaker 1: And he was he was working I can't remember what
Speaker 1: East Coast University he was at, but he discovered somebody
Speaker 1: was getting into their system and he was he was
Speaker 1: it was a Unix administrator. I believe it's been a
Speaker 1: long time since I read the book, and that that
Speaker 1: was that was in the old days of basically the
Speaker 1: dark net, before we had the Internet, and so he
Speaker 1: found he traced it and he found that this guy
Speaker 1: was actually getting into their system through the computer system
Speaker 1: at a military base that was not far away that
Speaker 1: they were linked to. So he and so he was
Speaker 1: able to buy tracing around. He actually trace this this person,
Speaker 1: this hacker to Germany. He want he goes to the military.
Speaker 1: He goes and meet with the base commander at this
Speaker 1: base and and to tell him, hey, your computers are
Speaker 1: being penetrated. People are looking at all your files. And
Speaker 1: and the guy who was like a colonel said, so
Speaker 1: what why should I care? That's that's forward at a
Speaker 1: little better than that. I'm sure they have. And just
Speaker 1: for clarity's sake, is Solo the like hacker name or
Speaker 1: what that is? It's Solo is was the name that
Speaker 1: was signed to the messages that were showing up in
Speaker 1: the military's computer systems with with these little notes about
Speaker 1: how terrible they were. Okay, so it's not him saying,
Speaker 1: it's just me like I am right. He he had
Speaker 1: an identity online and Solo, who was unknown at that point,
Speaker 1: was continuing to scan thousands of US government machines, and,
Speaker 1: as Joe had already alluded to, had found some really
Speaker 1: huge flaws in the security of their systems. Between February
Speaker 1: of two thousand and one and March of two thousand
Speaker 1: and two, Solo broke into almost a hundred pieces in
Speaker 1: the Army, Navy, Air Force, NASA, and the Department of Defense.
Speaker 1: Solo surfed around evidently for a couple of months, copying
Speaker 1: files and passwords, and at one point he supposedly and
Speaker 1: this I couldn't find confirmation of this, but he supposedly
Speaker 1: brought down the U. S. Armies entire Washington d C network,
Speaker 1: taking out about two thousand computers, taking them offline for
Speaker 1: three days. Now they say he did this by going
Speaker 1: in and monkeying with files and deleting files. There's some
Speaker 1: stuff where they say that he took out some defense
Speaker 1: network like missile commands stuff, But again, this is all
Speaker 1: listed in news reports. When I went digging to find
Speaker 1: out exact records and transcripts of what the government says
Speaker 1: he did, I couldn't find it. I was, you know,
Speaker 1: I went to the n s A and all these
Speaker 1: places trying to find anything, and they never mentioned this guy.
Speaker 1: So it's evidently all covered up and Fred was formation
Speaker 1: at don't seem to be uncovering exactly what they say
Speaker 1: he did. Well, they probably don't want to get too
Speaker 1: specific either. I'm sure. I'm sure now, So this all happens,
Speaker 1: and at the time US Attorney Paul McNulty. He called
Speaker 1: this the biggest military computer hack of all times. Is
Speaker 1: in two thousand two. This is that they know of.
Speaker 1: That's right, There's been plenty of other great, big ones
Speaker 1: they don't even know about. Well, despite being so good
Speaker 1: and hacking into their systems, Solo evidently wasn't so good
Speaker 1: at covering his tracks because they relatively quickly figured out
Speaker 1: who he was, and they traced him back in March
Speaker 1: of two thousand two to who he was, and they
Speaker 1: was a guy in the United Kingdom in London by
Speaker 1: the name of Gary McKinnon. He's a thirty six year
Speaker 1: old Scottish guy, and they sent the United Kingdom's National
Speaker 1: High Tech Crime Unit to arrest him. Uh and UH
Speaker 1: turns out that what he was doing is he didn't
Speaker 1: have a job at the time, so he was bored,
Speaker 1: so he was just surfing around on the net and
Speaker 1: he was spending his days, as he says, indulging his
Speaker 1: obsession with UFOs. Yeah, because he's convinced that there's all
Speaker 1: sorts of alien technology out there that were hiding from
Speaker 1: the people. When when he was first caught, he uh,
Speaker 1: he was offered a chance for a plea bargain, you know,
Speaker 1: do a couple of years and we'll just let you go.
Speaker 1: And he refused to do that. He said he was
Speaker 1: threatening to release the information that he had discovered in
Speaker 1: order to get out. So basically, no, I've got a big,
Speaker 1: bigger bargaining chip. The US government didn't think so, so
Speaker 1: they continued to try to pursue him. Basically, they were
Speaker 1: trying to extradite him to the States. Yeah, they it
Speaker 1: was looking like it was it was going to happen,
Speaker 1: but in actually the government put the knicks on that.
Speaker 1: But let's get into the UFO stuff. Well yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so he's he's thinking about UFOs, so that's that's his
Speaker 1: reason for doing it. Oh McKinnon. Here he claims that
Speaker 1: the UFOs were the main reason that he hacked into
Speaker 1: their systems, and he was convinced that the US government
Speaker 1: was hiding alien anti gravity technology and devices which he
Speaker 1: was planning to find and uncover and release for the
Speaker 1: benefit of humanity. Yeah. I just like, uh if okay,
Speaker 1: if the United States of America has technology like anti
Speaker 1: gravity devices, advanced energy weapons, et cetera, don't you think
Speaker 1: it'd be harder to hack their systems? You would think
Speaker 1: we would think also that we would have things like
Speaker 1: floating battleships and you know, and high energy laser devices.
Speaker 1: We do have all those things. Well, well I'm not
Speaker 1: talking float, I mean battleships of float in the air,
Speaker 1: and yeah, I know we have those things. They're just hidden.
Speaker 1: That's what clouds are. Yeah, guess clouds are just battleships.
Speaker 1: That actually, that would be it. That would be a
Speaker 1: really really cool, badass system. Well haven't you seen what's
Speaker 1: the Avengers? They they hide their floating ship and a
Speaker 1: cloud constantly. I mean, that's that's kind of where they're going.
Speaker 1: But but we're we're getting a little ahead of ourselves.
Speaker 1: So here's a quote from McKinnon. He says, I knew
Speaker 1: the government suppressed anti gravity UFO related technologies free energy
Speaker 1: or what they call zero point energy. This should not
Speaker 1: be kept hidden from the pult public when pensioners can't
Speaker 1: pay their fuel bills. So he's got a very altruistic reason.
Speaker 1: But he was still committing a crime because he was
Speaker 1: hacking into a system. Evidently what happened is at one
Speaker 1: point he had read and I've never heard of this book,
Speaker 1: he had read the Hackers Handbook which evidently gave him
Speaker 1: the basis of how to do all these hacks. And
Speaker 1: he used the techniques that were in the book, and
Speaker 1: he applied him to the US government system to gain
Speaker 1: access and and he found serious access, obviously because he
Speaker 1: kept getting in. So the question is, okay, well, if
Speaker 1: he got all this access, what did he actually find find? What?
Speaker 1: You know, there's got to be something that he thought
Speaker 1: was such good bargaining chips. Well, one of the things
Speaker 1: he found was an Excel spreadsheet, an Excel spreadsheet that
Speaker 1: was titled non Terrestrial Officers. That he download the spreadsheet, No,
Speaker 1: he didn't. He looked at it. He looked at it.
Speaker 1: And there's some issues with why he did some of
Speaker 1: the things he the way he did, but think that
Speaker 1: he would have kept copies screen at least. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: this the spreadsheet supposedly contained the names and ranks of
Speaker 1: US Air Force personnel who weren't registered anywhere else, and
Speaker 1: it contained information about ship ship transfers. But according to McKinnon,
Speaker 1: those were the names of ships that he didn't find
Speaker 1: listed anywhere else. Now was it names like Enterprise and Voyager? Yea? Anyway, Yeah,
Speaker 1: well he Now the thing is when McKinnon says that
Speaker 1: it's nontrestrial officers. When he when he uses that term,
Speaker 1: you could instantly think, well, he think he's saying that
Speaker 1: they're aliens. Well he's not saying that it's aliens or
Speaker 1: that you know, it's it's humans and aliens working together.
Speaker 1: He's saying that it's humans who are on non terrestrial
Speaker 1: based ships, so they are in space. Yeah that makes sense, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it does when you read into it that way. But
Speaker 1: I mean, have we not all seen the true life
Speaker 1: documentaries of Star Trek and Star Wars. Yeah, that's it's
Speaker 1: that's absolutely true. And so yeah, I'm okay, Well, well
Speaker 1: here's what happens is when his when he was detected,
Speaker 1: when they found him, this is how they figured out
Speaker 1: what was going on is McKinnon was downloading a photo
Speaker 1: from NASA's Johnson Space Center of what he believed was
Speaker 1: a UFO And according to McKinnon, and this is directly
Speaker 1: from an interview, this is what he says. He says
Speaker 1: a NASA photographic expert said that there was a building
Speaker 1: eight at the Johnson Space Center where they regularly airbrushed
Speaker 1: out images of UFOs from high resolution satellite images. I
Speaker 1: logged onto NASA and was able to access this department.
Speaker 1: They had huge high resolution images stored in their picture files,
Speaker 1: and they had filtered and unfiltered or processed and unprocessed photos.
Speaker 1: So this is this is what he's saying that you know,
Speaker 1: he this is his his basis of this is what
Speaker 1: I found, and this is obvious why it's really he
Speaker 1: continues on my dial of fifty six K connection was
Speaker 1: very slow trying to download one of these files. Yeah,
Speaker 1: as this was happening, I had remote control of their desktop,
Speaker 1: and by adjusting it to four bit color and low
Speaker 1: screen resolution, I was able to briefly see one of
Speaker 1: these pictures. It was a silvery cigar shaped object with
Speaker 1: geodesic spheres on either side. There was no visible seams
Speaker 1: or riveting, There was no reference to the size of
Speaker 1: the object, and the picture was taken presumably by a
Speaker 1: satellite looking down on it. The object didn't look man
Speaker 1: made or anything like what we had created. Because I
Speaker 1: was using a Java application, I could only get a
Speaker 1: screenshot of the pictures. It didn't go into my temporary
Speaker 1: internet files. And at my crowning moment, someone at NASA
Speaker 1: discovered what I was doing and I was disconnected. I
Speaker 1: don't know, but he got a screenshot of it. Should
Speaker 1: it should be on his computer. All of all of
Speaker 1: his computers, of course, were seized but and then not returned.
Speaker 1: So he didn't like store a thumb drive or something
Speaker 1: like that. No, he didn't make copies. Evidently he wasn't
Speaker 1: didn't have the foresight for that right at that point.
Speaker 1: Um possible it could have been a CD two thousand
Speaker 1: one could have been. But that's a good point old
Speaker 1: ZIP drive. Here's point. I don't want to poop poo
Speaker 1: what Gary says he found, but I do have an
Speaker 1: issue with the image that he says he saw when
Speaker 1: he took it to a four bit resolution at low
Speaker 1: resolution or four bit color at low resolution, that is
Speaker 1: really really rough, you know. I mean you're talking only
Speaker 1: four colors. That is hard to see anything at So
Speaker 1: I question his descriptions of being silver in smooth and
Speaker 1: not seeing rivets. Yeah there's no way, well yeah, that
Speaker 1: kind of is. It's going to be near impossible to
Speaker 1: see any kind of detail. Plus he's on such a
Speaker 1: slow connection. I can understand. You know, it's like when
Speaker 1: you know, back to ten fifteen years ago, when you're
Speaker 1: waiting for an image to load and just line by
Speaker 1: line showing up on your monitor and you're waiting, waiting
Speaker 1: harder hard to remember those days when modems were so
Speaker 1: much slower than they are today. Yes, it's it is.
Speaker 1: It's hard to keep that in perspective. Yeah, So obviously,
Speaker 1: as we said, he got busted in November of two.
Speaker 1: Sorry that all he found. Well, he found the ship
Speaker 1: to ship transfers, and he found the pature, and he
Speaker 1: found the picture one low, grainy picture something. Those are
Speaker 1: the things that he says he found. No, he didn't
Speaker 1: say what kind of satellite photo it was, that it
Speaker 1: was in a military spy satellite. He didn't say, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've never found what kind of satellite. I don't think
Speaker 1: he knows. He found it in a folder that said filtered,
Speaker 1: none filtered, and that's all he found. And filtered could
Speaker 1: have been as innocuous as they were filtering it to
Speaker 1: adjust colors or something like that so that it was
Speaker 1: accurate photos and not the grass is blue and the
Speaker 1: brown buildings are red. It could have as simple as that,
Speaker 1: but we don't know, but it could have been. But
Speaker 1: he he gets busted and he was indicted by a
Speaker 1: federal grand jury from this country, and that indictment contained
Speaker 1: seven counts of computer related crime, each of which had
Speaker 1: a up to ten year jail sentence attached to him. Wow,
Speaker 1: so if he had got extradited into this country, he
Speaker 1: potentially could have been locked up for seventy years. That's
Speaker 1: that's something that the our federal prosecutors do a lot.
Speaker 1: By the way, a little aside for the book, Well,
Speaker 1: it throw it throw so many charges at you that
Speaker 1: you reasonably and this is this is I think a
Speaker 1: pretty troubling thing that they do these days. It's a
Speaker 1: routine thing that's throw so many charges at you on
Speaker 1: theory that well a reasonable jury will say, well, we're
Speaker 1: not really sure, but you must be guilty of something,
Speaker 1: so find I'm guilty of this one charge at least.
Speaker 1: So you know that get you for something, even if
Speaker 1: it's not the right, they are going to get you
Speaker 1: for something. And it's like it's kind of appalling. Actually,
Speaker 1: yeah it is. It's it's it's okay, okay. Well it
Speaker 1: took ten years for this whole thing to be kind
Speaker 1: of put to bed because he fought for ten years
Speaker 1: extradition to the States. Yeah, um, gun is now the
Speaker 1: UK finally decided that even though they had signed what
Speaker 1: was called the Extradition Act two thousand three, which was
Speaker 1: something that and I had to I had to go
Speaker 1: straight to Wikipedia to kind of get this. It was
Speaker 1: implemented in two thousand three, and it's an extra dy
Speaker 1: extradition treaty with the US where the US did not
Speaker 1: need to provide contestable evidence. In other words, they didn't
Speaker 1: have to provide ironclad evidence. They could just say, we
Speaker 1: have some evidence and we want to extradite you. So
Speaker 1: they didn't have to prove guilt to extradite, to prove
Speaker 1: guilt again, correct, They just had to say, you might
Speaker 1: be guilty. Yeah, basically, yeah, we want to bring him
Speaker 1: here to put him on trial to prove if he
Speaker 1: really is guilty or not, which is a little that's
Speaker 1: that's kind of a disconcerting treaty have in place. But
Speaker 1: you know, everybody was panicked at that point, you know,
Speaker 1: with the War on Terror's begun as as it was
Speaker 1: called in this country, and so they were willing to
Speaker 1: do whatever they quote unquote had to to keep everybody safe.
Speaker 1: And I can see that this could take ten years.
Speaker 1: I mean, just the argument of like him being a
Speaker 1: citizen of Scotland right in the UK committing a crime
Speaker 1: that is technically it's technically an international crime. It's a
Speaker 1: computer crime. So like, was it committed in America and
Speaker 1: that committed you know, committed against America certainly, but like
Speaker 1: when yeah, I can totally see all those arguments crazy,
Speaker 1: Very slowly it does. And and there was a lot
Speaker 1: of of high ranking officials who had this on their
Speaker 1: desk when they were elected in UH in England, who
Speaker 1: just let it sit there and sit there until in
Speaker 1: two thousand twelve it finally was addressed. Somebody's like, we
Speaker 1: just got to take care of this. And what they
Speaker 1: did is they finally decided that they weren't going to
Speaker 1: extradite him because they believed that it was so likely
Speaker 1: to cause McKinnon such mental hardship that the likelihood of
Speaker 1: him doing harm to himself also known as suicide, was
Speaker 1: too high a risk, and they said, no, we're not
Speaker 1: going to do it. So they're worried about his you know,
Speaker 1: his health and well being and figuring, well, if we
Speaker 1: send him overseas, he's gonna do something pretty extreme to
Speaker 1: himself before or wild there. I've got to remember that
Speaker 1: next time I got they're trying to extradite me, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna kill myself. Yeah, I don't know about that. Well,
Speaker 1: here's the thing. One of the things that really helped
Speaker 1: McKinnon with the extradition is that in two thousand eight,
Speaker 1: somebody was watching interviews with him. There was a psychologist
Speaker 1: who I think it was a psychiatrist or a psychologist
Speaker 1: and I remember which one, same thing really essentially, who
Speaker 1: was watching him and watching his behavior and got in
Speaker 1: touch with him, brought him in and did tests and
Speaker 1: figured out that he has as Burger's And I'm just
Speaker 1: can somebody help me here explain what as Burgers is
Speaker 1: because I'm not real good at this. It's like a
Speaker 1: really like a socially adept version well as socially as
Speaker 1: a dept as you can be of autism. People can
Speaker 1: still have social interactions. It's not like so disconnected like
Speaker 1: a lot of places on the autism scale are, but
Speaker 1: it's still it's still out. It's like they describe it
Speaker 1: as like a very mild autist just say high functioning version,
Speaker 1: I think is the way I've seen it describe. But
Speaker 1: folks who haven't tend to get very focused on things
Speaker 1: which they used as an explanation of why Gary did
Speaker 1: what he did. He just he focused in and he
Speaker 1: just honed in. I guess I don't know after it's
Speaker 1: really use Aspergers or really autism in general. But certainly
Speaker 1: it's odd to me that you could use Asperger's as
Speaker 1: as a defense on why a crime of any kind. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I wouldn't. Well, all I know
Speaker 1: is that it was one of the factors that they
Speaker 1: took into consideration, and that helped his case certainly, to
Speaker 1: take you know, a mental state into consideration, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, what was that, like the Snickers trial or whatever,
Speaker 1: the fense, Yeah, the twinkie defense, like that you shot milk? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: like that worked. So obviously there's a president for like
Speaker 1: things that don't actually totally fit and making them fit.
Speaker 1: But that this one in particular is odd to me,
Speaker 1: also just because they have a problem with what it
Speaker 1: implies about people with Asberger's. Yeah, but you have a
Speaker 1: point there, and and that's why I wanted help with this,
Speaker 1: because I knew that I wasn'tna be able to hit
Speaker 1: it on the head. And I don't think that we've
Speaker 1: probably nailed it as accurately as we should. What you
Speaker 1: don't If you don't know Asburg, just look exactly. Okay,
Speaker 1: So that's that's scary. So let's talk about the theories
Speaker 1: about what he might have actually found that would have
Speaker 1: freaked the US government. So m and he was never
Speaker 1: charged with anything. And he's a freeman right now. He's
Speaker 1: a freeman. Yes, I think it's a freeman as long
Speaker 1: as he doesn't set foot in the US. He doesn't
Speaker 1: set foot in the US. And he cannot use a
Speaker 1: computer that is connected to the internet. That is one
Speaker 1: of the stipulations in the modern day. He's got, he's
Speaker 1: walking around papers. He was on probation for a long
Speaker 1: long time, always had to check in every night at
Speaker 1: the police and then had to go home. But he
Speaker 1: and he was a computer tech is what he did
Speaker 1: for a living. And so now he cannot touch a
Speaker 1: computer ever again that is on the internet. So and yeah,
Speaker 1: that is really hard on in a world like this.
Speaker 1: He's never going to hear this show when somebody else
Speaker 1: downloads it for him. Yeah, maybe somebody'll download him put
Speaker 1: it on his iPod for him. Yeah and if if,
Speaker 1: if that's the case, Hi, Gary, but I can't even imagine.
Speaker 1: All Right, well, let's let's do this. Let's go into
Speaker 1: some of these theories. Now, I've kind of just sussed
Speaker 1: this out to two sides of the story, two sides
Speaker 1: of what he could have found, well, the things that
Speaker 1: he could have found, or you know, what he couldn't
Speaker 1: have found, essentially. But the problem is that this is
Speaker 1: a bit of a rats nest. This could spin out.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is one of those stories if we're
Speaker 1: going to go into hidden technology or alien technology, it's
Speaker 1: one of those ones that could just mushroom cloud out
Speaker 1: on us. So I'm trying to keep it focused in
Speaker 1: so while there's a lot of things that people say
Speaker 1: he could have found, we're only going to kind of
Speaker 1: focus on a small number. Um. So let's start off
Speaker 1: with the first one, which is that, according to some people,
Speaker 1: if it's real, McKinnon found proof that the U. S.
Speaker 1: Government has been in contact with aliens for over fifty years.
Speaker 1: There's some points from official records and government documents and
Speaker 1: memoirs that are out there that people point to is
Speaker 1: kind of the tip of the iceberg proving that this
Speaker 1: is the case. And one of those is President Ronald
Speaker 1: Reagan and his m wires, or his his diary and
Speaker 1: his notes in in a there's a quote from his
Speaker 1: personal diaries, which is out there. It's a book you
Speaker 1: can buy. But he says, and this is this is
Speaker 1: a line from it. It says, lunch with five top
Speaker 1: space scientists. It was fascinating. Space truly is the last frontier,
Speaker 1: and some of the developments there in astronomy, etcetera. Are
Speaker 1: like science fiction, except they're real. I learned that our
Speaker 1: shuttle capacity is such that we could orbit three people.
Speaker 1: But that's that's a little ambiguous. That's a little ambiguous.
Speaker 1: Excuse me is because here's here's the part that's screwy
Speaker 1: with that at the time there were eight There are
Speaker 1: space shuttles held a maximum of eight people, and we
Speaker 1: had five of them, so that is forty people. So
Speaker 1: where were the other two hundred and sixty going to go? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, but the the statement that our shuttle capacity
Speaker 1: is such that we could or with three hundred people
Speaker 1: just means that we have enough shuttles and they can
Speaker 1: go often enough that if we had a place to
Speaker 1: put three hundred people in orbit, then that would be
Speaker 1: kind of the max in terms of the shuttle bringing
Speaker 1: him out there, taking them on, bringing supplies and spare
Speaker 1: parts and everything else. That's more likely. What they were
Speaker 1: saying is that and it's that impossible we had a
Speaker 1: big space station. Yeah. I don't know, but according to
Speaker 1: all of these people who are are considered military and
Speaker 1: corporate whistleblowers, that's the phrase that I kept coming across.
Speaker 1: They're saying that we've got a highly classified fleet of
Speaker 1: aircraft carriers sized anti gravity vehicles that are currently operating
Speaker 1: in outer space. Well, I want to say, first of all,
Speaker 1: if that's true, that's awesome. That's really awesome. I really
Speaker 1: want to believe that's true. So let's prove that this
Speaker 1: is true. All right, Well we'll we'll try and do
Speaker 1: that for you, Joe. Well, we just I mean, I
Speaker 1: think we probably posted on Facebook. But in the last
Speaker 1: month or so, there's been that huge development in um
Speaker 1: propulsion systems for space, which is super interesting and also
Speaker 1: one of those kind of weird like it's so defies
Speaker 1: physics and so defies everything that the like how you know,
Speaker 1: one could wonder how long have we actually had technology
Speaker 1: like this, or like where is this technology? Very swiftly
Speaker 1: in huge leaps and bounds, leading us. You know, And
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of proponents of theories like
Speaker 1: this kind of argue that this is technology that the
Speaker 1: government has had for a long time and is like
Speaker 1: really ready to do some stuff with, and you know,
Speaker 1: the population at large is ready to see that stuff happen,
Speaker 1: but that they're like trying to figure out a way
Speaker 1: to like explain how like humans came up with it
Speaker 1: by themselves, you know, complete with the Shatner weird hand
Speaker 1: things that I was just doing. Yeah, yeah, that's that's
Speaker 1: possible if they're trying to cover their tracks and cover
Speaker 1: the UFO connection by slowly dribbling the technology out eventually
Speaker 1: arriving at that if not alien technology, man, that's pretty
Speaker 1: alien to what I experienced when I was a kid. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: and and this is the thing is that, you know,
Speaker 1: this is one of those things, these theories that McKinnon
Speaker 1: points to to prove that, yes, we do have this
Speaker 1: technology that's available to give us this free or basically
Speaker 1: free or much cheaper and probably potentially cleaner energy sources
Speaker 1: than what we're using right now. There's nothing cleaner than
Speaker 1: the sun. Man. No, Well, you know, here's the here's
Speaker 1: the other thing that I keep wondering about, Okay, well
Speaker 1: let's let's look on the flip sides. So let's say, yeah, there,
Speaker 1: we really do possess this technology, but what if that
Speaker 1: technology to to operate it is super super dirty compared
Speaker 1: to what we use now for propulsion of rockets and
Speaker 1: cars and all of that. Like what if it requires
Speaker 1: some crazy nuclear action that just makes goads a waste,
Speaker 1: And then maybe that's why they're not releasing it because
Speaker 1: it's so dirty. It's so bad that these these kind
Speaker 1: of conspiracy theory things really assume that the people in
Speaker 1: power are like pretty awful. They're nearious, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: and that's like widespread systematic problem. And I just don't
Speaker 1: know enough people that are that awful, you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: like so either there would be a really good reason,
Speaker 1: like Steve says, right that like actually it's way worse,
Speaker 1: and so they're keeping a secret until they can kind
Speaker 1: of figure out if there's a way to alter it
Speaker 1: or whatever, or we don't have it, I mean, you know.
Speaker 1: And it's somehow I've become the naysayer on this episode
Speaker 1: about aliens, But you know, it's this kind of assumption
Speaker 1: of like super nefarious behavior terrible people. Well, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: and if it's if that's the case, if it's really dirty,
Speaker 1: maybe that's why they're not using it. It's yeah, but
Speaker 1: nobody ever says that. They say, it's obviously an example
Speaker 1: that we have it and it's got to be super
Speaker 1: clean because it's anti gravity. But you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: we there's a lot of things that we think we
Speaker 1: thought were super clean energy sources. I mean, nuclear is
Speaker 1: an easy example. When it first came out, nuclear is
Speaker 1: super clean, it's so cheap, and then we discovered it
Speaker 1: actually makes a lot of bad stuff happen and potentially
Speaker 1: can have some terrible ramifications can and not always necessarily
Speaker 1: not always can. They're definitely careless. Back in the early
Speaker 1: days exposed a lot of people are radiations fall out
Speaker 1: that and nobody was aware. But anyways, the anti the
Speaker 1: anti gravity thing, who knows, I mean, it might be
Speaker 1: might not be dirty in the sense that it creates
Speaker 1: a lot of waste or anything like that, or toxins,
Speaker 1: and maybe it just makes people sort of come up.
Speaker 1: Part of the seems again you pass through that anti
Speaker 1: gravity field and explode. It's like the transporters and Star Trek.
Speaker 1: They first figured them out and they would liquefy people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's there's like a movie or TV show there's some
Speaker 1: use of anti gravity. You know, they do the close
Speaker 1: up of it and it's just like guzzling fuel and
Speaker 1: like shooting out like black smoke in the atmosphere. But
Speaker 1: like if the anti gravity, so we're using it, you know,
Speaker 1: that's totally the sort of thing that people today would
Speaker 1: totally do. You know, we would just ignore, totally would
Speaker 1: ignore the fact that it would be like really awful
Speaker 1: for the future generations because it's so cool, it's anti
Speaker 1: gravity awesome. You know. Well, there's there's a trade off
Speaker 1: there too. I mean, you guys have heard of the
Speaker 1: space elevator for example, right, That's one of the big
Speaker 1: problems with that is the cost of transporting all the
Speaker 1: materials necessary to build this thing into or but which
Speaker 1: would be vast. But once you've got that there and
Speaker 1: you've got space elevator going space travel is they're cheap.
Speaker 1: So that'd be a great use of It's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna dirt the environment a little bit, but we're
Speaker 1: gonna use this anti gravity platform to put all that
Speaker 1: stuff out there. Just this one time you know, build up,
Speaker 1: build elevator and famous last words, and that will will
Speaker 1: use it to put like about fifty nuclear warheads in
Speaker 1: orbit and then but perfect, yeah, we are, sorry, we are.
Speaker 1: But well let's let's go to the next thing, which
Speaker 1: is do you remember when I talked about the ship
Speaker 1: to ship or the non terrestrial officers with the ship
Speaker 1: to ship transports, Okay, and we talked about the Avengers ship.
Speaker 1: So this is that aircraft carrier size ship floating in space.
Speaker 1: Well there's actually think it's the Shield spacecraft, but that's
Speaker 1: just the antics. Sorry, Yeah, thank you for I think
Speaker 1: I'd like to think it's like that that really enormous
Speaker 1: Romulan ship from the two Star Trek movie. Remember the
Speaker 1: first Star Trek movie that recently came out. Huh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that thing that was about the size of Manhattan. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that'd be cool. Okay, Steeve, I really just
Speaker 1: didn't want you to be embarrassing yourself. Well I appreciate
Speaker 1: that because you know, I'm only a little bit of
Speaker 1: a comic nerds, so this way you're correcting me on
Speaker 1: my bad usage. When we started talking about e walks,
Speaker 1: really watch out because I get them all mixed up walk. Okay,
Speaker 1: well back to these ships. So the proponents of this
Speaker 1: theory that there is that anti gravity technology and that
Speaker 1: we really do have ships up in space point to
Speaker 1: a couple of things, and these things are really really unconfirmed.
Speaker 1: In other words, I tried to find I've seen mention
Speaker 1: of it, but I've never found anything that where these
Speaker 1: this information came from. It just mysteriously appears on the Internet.
Speaker 1: But here's what it is. From those transfer logs, people
Speaker 1: say the mckinnons saw the names of two ships. One
Speaker 1: is the U S. S. S. LeMay, bear with me,
Speaker 1: and the U S S S. Hill and Koder. I
Speaker 1: believe that's how you pronounce. I'm not sure. Okay, now
Speaker 1: here's here's I know where your confusion is. U S
Speaker 1: S S three essay, Yes, it's normally it's a United
Speaker 1: States ship is two S S. United States spaceship is
Speaker 1: where the third S is coming from? In this is that?
Speaker 1: But because they should have called him USSR for the
Speaker 1: United States Space Rocket. Well I'm just thinking about you
Speaker 1: know again, going back to the like you know, of
Speaker 1: course the documentary of the Enterprise, it was just the U. S. S. Enterprise. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was like the United Spaceship or something something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess at that point, right, it
Speaker 1: wasn't like the United States. It was like the world. Yeah, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: all right, I'm there. Okay, Well, yes, the U s S.
Speaker 1: So we've got the LAMAI and the hill Encoder as
Speaker 1: I'm calling it because I don't know the exact pronunciation. Well,
Speaker 1: there's actually some history on both of those names. Really,
Speaker 1: there's General Curtis LeMay, who was and this is this
Speaker 1: is the whole story here on him is he was
Speaker 1: friends with a retired Air Force reserved major general and
Speaker 1: former Senator from Arizona, Barry Goldwater. Goldwater believed that there
Speaker 1: was a UFO cover up in the government, and he
Speaker 1: suspected that LeMay knew about it, and there there was
Speaker 1: supposedly evidence that there was some room in right Patterson
Speaker 1: Air Force Base called the Blue Room, which was supposed
Speaker 1: to contain all the secret UFO information. Goldwater told the
Speaker 1: media several times that he had asked LeMay about this
Speaker 1: room and lead got really upset and said, not only
Speaker 1: can't you get into it, but don't you ever mention
Speaker 1: it to me again. I just feel like a U. S.
Speaker 1: Senator from Arizona. Where where is Ohio Senior? Dayton? Never mind,
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, the U. S. Senator of the state,
Speaker 1: and which how's you would you would at least think,
Speaker 1: you know, the general would be like listen, dude, chill, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can't talk about it. But but you know, the
Speaker 1: thing is is this this was back, you know, in
Speaker 1: the forties and fifties supposedly when this happened, or maybe
Speaker 1: it was the sixties. I can't remember the exact date
Speaker 1: at the moment, but this is during a time when
Speaker 1: we have Cold War going on, So that might have
Speaker 1: been a room that held secrets, not about the Russians
Speaker 1: or somebody else. Or it could also just be as
Speaker 1: simple as LeMay was really sick and tired and fed
Speaker 1: up with all this UFO he kept hearing about the
Speaker 1: people kept pestering about him. That he was just exasperated.
Speaker 1: He said, Hey, I don't want to hear about UFOs anymore.
Speaker 1: But if if he was the guy who was who
Speaker 1: knew about that and somehow had control, that would explain
Speaker 1: why one of the ships his name LeMay. We go
Speaker 1: to the other one, the second ship, there is a
Speaker 1: man by the name of Admiral Roscoe Hill Encoder, and
Speaker 1: he was the first director of the CIA, And he
Speaker 1: was also a member of a UFO research organization, the
Speaker 1: National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomenon. When was that a
Speaker 1: thing that was in the fifties, because in nineteen sixty
Speaker 1: the New York Times reported that he had sent a
Speaker 1: letter to Congress indicating this the following statement. Behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: high ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned with UFOs,
Speaker 1: but through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are being
Speaker 1: led to believe that these flying flying objects are nonsense. Okay,
Speaker 1: we've talked about this before, and I'm just going to
Speaker 1: talk about it again real quick. We always assume that
Speaker 1: UFO refers to something that is extraterrestrial, right, but it's
Speaker 1: actually just something that just means that it's identified. And
Speaker 1: like the government has come out and said, yeah, we
Speaker 1: test prototype planes all the time. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1: Their stealth operations were developing these things were not. Of course,
Speaker 1: we're not going to just like come out and be like, hey,
Speaker 1: general public, just so you know, we got a brand
Speaker 1: new prototype of something we're going to try out. We
Speaker 1: spent millions of dollars on it and we might crash it.
Speaker 1: But that's gonna be cool. You might see it flying around.
Speaker 1: Of course they're not going to say that, so you know,
Speaker 1: in order to say like a UFO at any level
Speaker 1: and rant and also you know, I mean if they would,
Speaker 1: they would have to investigate these things like say if
Speaker 1: if if somebody's spotting something flying around, especially during the
Speaker 1: Cold War, Yeah, you want to find out if maybe
Speaker 1: Russia has you know, actually you know, flying spyplanes over
Speaker 1: some stuff. You want to look into it. That makes sense, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it totally does. But that's that's why people say there's
Speaker 1: significance to those two names being the names of these ships.
Speaker 1: It's also the fact that it then leads into what
Speaker 1: is known as the Majestic twelve. Sounds like, yeah, but
Speaker 1: before we delve into that. So, so McKinnon is the
Speaker 1: one who came up with the names of these two ships, right,
Speaker 1: He's he's the one who reported seeing these in the
Speaker 1: success spreads. Supposedly he saw these names on the spreadsheets. Yes,
Speaker 1: but that is completely unconfirmed. I've never seen any official
Speaker 1: thing from him. In quotes, these are the names that
Speaker 1: I saw, So it might be something that somebody dovetailed
Speaker 1: in that they're pretty obscure references, at least the LAMA. Well,
Speaker 1: I think that they tie into this Majestic twelve bit, though,
Speaker 1: is what the problem is. And I think that's I
Speaker 1: think that it's one built on the other. And again
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that it was dovetailed in and that
Speaker 1: McKinnon didn't say this, but I can't prove it. So
Speaker 1: this is I've just got to lay the facts and say, well,
Speaker 1: I can see how a fits to be fits to
Speaker 1: see and that's unsolved mystery solving. Yeah, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: that's you know, I'm just trying to deduce what's going on.
Speaker 1: So that's that's my best. So here's what the Majestic twelve.
Speaker 1: The Majestic twelve is alleged to have been the code
Speaker 1: name of a secret committee of scientists, military leaders, and
Speaker 1: government officials formed in seven by an executive order from
Speaker 1: Harry S. Truman, who was president at the time, and
Speaker 1: the purpose of this committee was stated as being the
Speaker 1: investigation of the reports of flying saucer sightings that had
Speaker 1: been received by the U. S. Military intelligence, and in particular,
Speaker 1: they were looking at the possible um the physics and
Speaker 1: the technology that would be required for that kind of propulsion.
Speaker 1: So they're looking into Okay, well, we're scientists, so if
Speaker 1: somebody says it did this, can we figure out how
Speaker 1: that might have happened? And that's kind of a simplification
Speaker 1: of what it is, kind of kind of But here's
Speaker 1: the thing is this was formed in forty seven in
Speaker 1: and what really really sets off a lot of people
Speaker 1: is that it was June or was it July of
Speaker 1: seven that the roswell incident happened, So this is the
Speaker 1: same year. So this just lights a fire under people
Speaker 1: to make that connection. But yeah, other than that, it's hard.
Speaker 1: Nobody knows what Majestic twelve was all about. Actually, yeah,
Speaker 1: and here's the funny thing is um Helen Cotter he
Speaker 1: if you remember, I had said that he had put
Speaker 1: out that that memo in nineteen sixty about we need
Speaker 1: to we need to be more transparent about these things.
Speaker 1: All of the sudden, at one point he just stopped,
Speaker 1: stopped talking about UFOs. He went dead silent on the topic.
Speaker 1: So then people figure, well, that must be about the
Speaker 1: time that he was inducted into the Majestic twelve. Inducted
Speaker 1: into the secret you know, the secret government organization that's
Speaker 1: dealing with UFOs. It may us we think of um
Speaker 1: that Will Smith movie was what was the one where
Speaker 1: the aliens came and he uh flew the alien ship
Speaker 1: up at their Yeah, it makes me think of Independence
Speaker 1: Day when you know they suddenly they're there with the
Speaker 1: president and there an area forty one and nobody knew
Speaker 1: that this really existed, kept its secret because you wanted
Speaker 1: to have plausible deniability. I mean, this, this is this
Speaker 1: is pervasive and it's a it's a topic or behavior
Speaker 1: that we've seen in a lot of things, but I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's real or not, but people just
Speaker 1: really grab onto it. Yeah. I always just it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, I have no idea, but probably not. Yes,
Speaker 1: I always think of the Futurama episode about Roswell, whenever
Speaker 1: we talked about Roswell, and I don't remember that. I don't. Oh.
Speaker 1: They accidentally time travel back into the past and it
Speaker 1: turns out that the Planet Express Ship is the UFO
Speaker 1: and it's just like you know, Harry Truman shows up
Speaker 1: in like a box of deviled eggs, like table doubled eggs,
Speaker 1: and he just like kick boxes his way out and
Speaker 1: like there, it's it's good, it's it's a really I'll
Speaker 1: have to pull that up. That's a Netflix I have
Speaker 1: to pull Yeah, yeah, that's that's also it must. We
Speaker 1: have another thing that came out a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: Some woman came up with a book that explained the
Speaker 1: Roswell incident, which was that it was it was an
Speaker 1: advanced Soviet craft and the Nazis apparently had been experiments
Speaker 1: and altering human physiology, and so they apparently it took
Speaker 1: some of these they had captured some of these these
Speaker 1: basically human beings who had been altered by the Nazis
Speaker 1: and stuffed him into this, uh this craft that they
Speaker 1: did and flew into Roswald crashed it there because they
Speaker 1: wanted to scare the crap out of us. And this
Speaker 1: is a real book to somebody, that's the basis in
Speaker 1: the whole book. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well it was a
Speaker 1: Soviet thing, yeah, with Nazi altered midgets and uh yeah, alright.
Speaker 1: I never got around to reading that one. I don't
Speaker 1: know why read I got so many, so many reading
Speaker 1: hours in the day. Yeah, well, let's move to the
Speaker 1: next theory that that kind of steps away from some
Speaker 1: of that, and that is the Disclosure Project. One of
Speaker 1: the inspirations that that McKinnon had was the Disclosure Project
Speaker 1: and it's run by a group called c ST. It's
Speaker 1: so it's c S E T I and they're they're
Speaker 1: headed by a guy by the name of Dr Stephen Greer.
Speaker 1: Are they connected to SET at all? No, No, they
Speaker 1: are not, but CCT and this is right on their website.
Speaker 1: This is how they explained themselves. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: quotes in this episode. I just realized. The Disclosure Project
Speaker 1: is a research project working to fully disclose the facts
Speaker 1: about UFOs extraterrestrial, intelligent and classified advanced energy and propulsion systems.
Speaker 1: We have over five government, military and intelligent community witnesses
Speaker 1: testifying to their direct personal, firsthand experience with UFOs E
Speaker 1: T s ET technology and the cover up that keeps
Speaker 1: this information secret end quote working so well, I suppose
Speaker 1: they have five people they're supposedly talking. Yeah, they say
Speaker 1: they have all of these people on record on videotape
Speaker 1: or video. They've recorded them. It's probably not the right term,
Speaker 1: but they've recorded all of their interviews about what they
Speaker 1: saw and and interacted with and are they online somewhere,
Speaker 1: are they like available to the public disclosure put out
Speaker 1: a They have a it's almost a two hour documentary
Speaker 1: about them and what they're after, and it's called Serious
Speaker 1: s I R I U S I believe it is
Speaker 1: how you pronounce it um. I watched it and it's
Speaker 1: a lot about their beliefs and what's the best way
Speaker 1: to explain in the way that they look at it.
Speaker 1: They believe that extraterrestrials are coming to this planet, and
Speaker 1: they have been coming to this planet for a long time.
Speaker 1: But they're actually multidimensional beings. So what's going on is
Speaker 1: that they will they will record the sky there's a
Speaker 1: dot moving, and then that dot fades out and they disappear.
Speaker 1: They're jumping dimensions. They use a lot of meditative techniques.
Speaker 1: They all sit outside and stare at the sky and
Speaker 1: they watch these things. It's it's very different. It's a
Speaker 1: very different approach to finding space aliens. But they also
Speaker 1: say that they have a lot of evidence that we
Speaker 1: have this technology and that that technology is known about
Speaker 1: and being suppressed. So so let me get this straight.
Speaker 1: They have a two hour film or video out on
Speaker 1: the internet, and in this they talk about their philosophy
Speaker 1: and all this stuff, but they don't present a single
Speaker 1: shred of evidence. Well, they do have some what they
Speaker 1: do have evidence that they present as to why it's
Speaker 1: real and why it's being suppressed, But it's a two
Speaker 1: hour movie, so it's very hard to to condense into
Speaker 1: a two minute explanation. I guess it also does make
Speaker 1: sense that if they want their movie to be seen,
Speaker 1: they probably don't want to put the information that's trying
Speaker 1: to be suppressed in it, right, because then the movie
Speaker 1: will be suppressed and then they can't get their information.
Speaker 1: You have to do it in like measured doses, and
Speaker 1: and here's here's their measured dose. They say that the
Speaker 1: government has the tech, or they know the tech exists,
Speaker 1: and that likely they've been in contact with or they've
Speaker 1: taken technology from aliens. And while they could disclose that
Speaker 1: to everybody and put it out there for the world
Speaker 1: to know about and use, there's a major problem, and
Speaker 1: that's a financial one. And the financial problem is that
Speaker 1: we're very dependent on fossil fuels, and according to them,
Speaker 1: there are four major companies that are out there that
Speaker 1: provide this fossil fuel. At the same time, there are
Speaker 1: four major financial institutions in this country, and each one
Speaker 1: of those is married to one of those companies that
Speaker 1: provides all those fossil fuels, and they don't want to
Speaker 1: let it out there because then they're gonna lose all
Speaker 1: of their revenue and their profits from our dependence on
Speaker 1: fossil fuels. Well. So, yeah, but you know, stories like
Speaker 1: this have been around since I was a kid. I
Speaker 1: was a kid, there was always talking about, oh, somebody
Speaker 1: invented a car that will run on water, and then
Speaker 1: these guys showed up from GM and then took his
Speaker 1: plans and beat him up real good and stuff. You know.
Speaker 1: The thing about it is is that free energy, even
Speaker 1: if there's never there's never gonna be any such thing
Speaker 1: as just free energy. It's always going to cost something,
Speaker 1: and you're you're gonna have to build power plants or
Speaker 1: whatever um and still generate the stuff, and so you know,
Speaker 1: there's always gonna be a profit to be made off
Speaker 1: of it. I mean, you know, a solar energy is
Speaker 1: a great example of this, right. I mean, it's super
Speaker 1: cheap to like install your solar panels and just have
Speaker 1: your own energy and likes the right place in this guy,
Speaker 1: but like nobody does that because nobody does that anymore. Well,
Speaker 1: it's not cheap. The panels are not that cheap, and
Speaker 1: they're getting cheaper, getting cheaper, but they'll they'll never be
Speaker 1: it'll never be competitive with oil or coal. Well, and
Speaker 1: the other problem is is that the power companies are
Speaker 1: geared to generate electricity. So when you're generating electricity and
Speaker 1: you're trying to pour it back into the system, they
Speaker 1: have no way to store it, so they will they
Speaker 1: they Hawaii is a prime example. Everybody. There's so many
Speaker 1: people that use solar energy there and they run off
Speaker 1: of it. But the power company actually takes a very
Speaker 1: small fraction of the energy that they capture it allows
Speaker 1: it back into the grid because they have no way
Speaker 1: to store it. There's and it would overload the system.
Speaker 1: So maybe if they instead of worked so hard at
Speaker 1: generating power, figured out how to store it to then
Speaker 1: reuse it or release it at night or whatever, this
Speaker 1: would make sense. But these you know, the proponents are saying, well,
Speaker 1: of course they don't want to do that because then
Speaker 1: they would lose money because they would be paying me
Speaker 1: for the energy that I pipe in from my solar panels.
Speaker 1: It's not. Yeah, and the storage and stuff that, I mean,
Speaker 1: you can store it yourself if you want to fill
Speaker 1: your basement with batteries or something like that. The power
Speaker 1: company is stored in reservoirs of water, for example, by
Speaker 1: pumping water uphill. That adds a lot of another layer
Speaker 1: of expense to the technology. Uh, same with So that's
Speaker 1: this free energy thing. I think it's quite possible that
Speaker 1: if it exists, and if there's a big conspiracy of
Speaker 1: conspiracy surrounding it because of oil companies, well what you
Speaker 1: do is you as you turn the technology over to
Speaker 1: those guys and then get out of the oil business
Speaker 1: and they get into the the energy business. I mean
Speaker 1: they're in the energy business now. So it's simple from
Speaker 1: our perspective, it's it's very simple. It's very easy to say, well,
Speaker 1: this is bad and this is a little better, why
Speaker 1: don't you transition over. But when you're trying to prove
Speaker 1: profits or provide profits to your board and your investors,
Speaker 1: and you say, hey, so that thing that makes us
Speaker 1: all that money, we're actually going to scale that back
Speaker 1: and we're going to sink a bunch of money into
Speaker 1: this other thing. So you're not going to make as
Speaker 1: much for a while, maybe a long time. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: they they usually get a little resistance when they when
Speaker 1: they say they want to go that direction. Now they're not.
Speaker 1: They're not going to need to scale back on oil sales.
Speaker 1: And actually, when you think about it, you know that
Speaker 1: the great thing about it is if the US government
Speaker 1: has this, then it can turn the technology over to
Speaker 1: private companies. The banks that have investments in these private
Speaker 1: companies probably also have investments and other fossil field companies overseas,
Speaker 1: so they can they can. Of course they'll all be
Speaker 1: in collision with each other, they can divest themselves with
Speaker 1: those investments were a reasonable period of time. This this
Speaker 1: makes sense as to why if it did exist, why
Speaker 1: it wouldn't already be out there, because financially that just
Speaker 1: that path makes sense. Yeah, And so you turn it
Speaker 1: over to Exxon and in a few other companies and
Speaker 1: give them exclusive pattern rights over this thing, and they say, hey,
Speaker 1: foreign countries, you can have this great power generation capacity.
Speaker 1: We're going to run the plant and keep this technology
Speaker 1: a secret, but it's cheaper than anything else out there,
Speaker 1: and so we could actually dominate energy production all around
Speaker 1: the world. I mean, it would be it would be awesome.
Speaker 1: I a little bit don't want to go without saying
Speaker 1: I'm looping a little bit back right now that I'm
Speaker 1: always interested in how these theories are always like, wow,
Speaker 1: the US government has all of this extraterrestrial you know, like, okay,
Speaker 1: we are we the biggest country in the world. No,
Speaker 1: that's Russia. Are we like the most superpower? If you
Speaker 1: were looking down on the Earth and trying to like
Speaker 1: kind of figure out who you would want to like
Speaker 1: communicate with, would it be America? Probably not. So it's
Speaker 1: always interesting to me when these theories are like, well,
Speaker 1: the US government has all this technology, and it's like
Speaker 1: so egotistical in my mind. If you're listening and want
Speaker 1: to have a further conversation, this is the conversation that
Speaker 1: some of our listeners know. I am happy to have email.
Speaker 1: But but you know, actually, if you're an alien looking
Speaker 1: down on the planet and you're deciding which which country
Speaker 1: did go can make contact with? The US actually makes
Speaker 1: sense because we we are the most developed country in
Speaker 1: terms of things like infrastructure. If you're an alien, you
Speaker 1: just count things like damns and just number of light
Speaker 1: bulbs that are burning at night and big buildings, big cities,
Speaker 1: stuff like that. Maybe it's just because all of the
Speaker 1: stuff in in the sky the US s yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but also Europe obviously it would be a pretty good
Speaker 1: candidate too. But yeah, but Russia would not be a
Speaker 1: good at It is big, but it's kind of a
Speaker 1: third world country. Yeah, they're they're a little behind the times.
Speaker 1: But that's that's a completely different topic. Alright. Well, well
Speaker 1: that's the That is the Disclosure Project, and that is
Speaker 1: again one of the things that that Gary McKinnon really
Speaker 1: seems to have based his initial decision to go on
Speaker 1: this search for and they do talk the Disclosure Project
Speaker 1: does talk about some of the things that Joe started
Speaker 1: to talk about a little bit ago, about the free
Speaker 1: energy bit, and and I want to go into that
Speaker 1: because and again this this is this is going to
Speaker 1: be a very quick surface overview of this bit of
Speaker 1: the topic, because this is another one of those things
Speaker 1: that could just explode into ten shows on its own.
Speaker 1: And I'm only going to touch on a couple of
Speaker 1: them briefly, I think, before we get too far into
Speaker 1: the theories or these cases, which probably just real quick
Speaker 1: to find kind of what free energy is. And and
Speaker 1: again this is one of the those things. Sometimes Wikipedia
Speaker 1: has the simplest way to explain things. You verbatim that
Speaker 1: I got a verbatim directly from Wikipedia. It's not for
Speaker 1: lack of trying, but it's just the simplest, most direct
Speaker 1: explanation of it. Crowdsourcing works or something something like that. Crazy.
Speaker 1: So according to Wikipedia, the quote for what is free energy,
Speaker 1: the type of devices that are allegedly suppressed include perpetual
Speaker 1: motion machines, cold fusion generators, tourists based generators, reverse engineered
Speaker 1: extraterrestrial technology, and other generally unproven or pseudo scientific low
Speaker 1: cost energy sources. Generator. I had to look that up.
Speaker 1: It is the I can. It is so hard to explain,
Speaker 1: but it's basically two spheres in motion, and there's there's
Speaker 1: a horn taurists and a sphere taurus and a ring
Speaker 1: to is. It's it's some serious math. And I watched
Speaker 1: a little illustration of a little video of how these
Speaker 1: things work and it was cool. Look, it's it's like
Speaker 1: there's a doughnut and then the donut comes together and
Speaker 1: then it's spear pulls together into a sphere. It's it's
Speaker 1: super complex and there's a giant math equation on how
Speaker 1: it works. But evidently how it would work, how it
Speaker 1: would work, and it's evidently congenerate gods of of power.
Speaker 1: I don't know that of gods plus ten powerscule amounts
Speaker 1: and then it's itself generates. Okay, well there's there is
Speaker 1: according to the vernacular. Um, you know all of these
Speaker 1: stories of people who have come up with technology that
Speaker 1: then got suppressed, and these are some of the ones
Speaker 1: that get pointed at by the Disclosure Project from CCT.
Speaker 1: And one of those is there's a guy by the
Speaker 1: name of doctor Henry Murray, and he supposedly invented a
Speaker 1: device that could absorb energy from a vacuum, and so
Speaker 1: it would just absorb energy and then you know, you
Speaker 1: could use it to run whenever you wanted. And then
Speaker 1: his machines were stolen and destroyed and you can never
Speaker 1: make it again. Before he died, there's of course Tesla.
Speaker 1: Everybody always pointed Tesla for his free energy and all
Speaker 1: these crazy things that he came up with, wireless energy,
Speaker 1: wireless energy, But I don't know if that was ever
Speaker 1: free energy, was it? I don't they point to wireless
Speaker 1: energy as a free energy source. Okay, again, his stuff
Speaker 1: is a little bit above my pay grades. So I
Speaker 1: never understood that the Tesla did actually have an idea
Speaker 1: for transporting energy wirelessly, But that doesn't mean it was free.
Speaker 1: It was still generated a conventional way, but it was
Speaker 1: transported without having to have a power grid like we
Speaker 1: have that right, that was his idea. He never put
Speaker 1: it in fruition, and I could be way off on that.
Speaker 1: So I suspect that it's, um, such a huge part
Speaker 1: of the cost of energy is the actual transportation of
Speaker 1: the energy that you know, it's if you use Tesla's
Speaker 1: theories or ideas or whatever, you cut that cost out
Speaker 1: essentially so that you know, you whatever down there, you're
Speaker 1: taurusts based generators or whatever, and then you transport it
Speaker 1: through Tesla's methods, than it's essentially free. Yeah, cheap at
Speaker 1: that point or maybe not. Maybe that's why I've never
Speaker 1: been implemented, is because it costs more. So I don't know, um.
Speaker 1: But the other one that that that we have here
Speaker 1: is and you mentioned this earlier, Joe, is Charles L. Garrett,
Speaker 1: the guy who invented the water few water powered car
Speaker 1: burned water and supposedly, you know, government agents showed up
Speaker 1: and took his device, and then he was again never
Speaker 1: able to recreate it before he died or no, now
Speaker 1: he he had a bunch of backers, and then the
Speaker 1: government supposedly came down on him and a court of
Speaker 1: law got involved, said he created all this stuff fraudulently
Speaker 1: and it didn't work, and all this investors suit the
Speaker 1: crap out of him, and so he died penniless, and
Speaker 1: so he could never create it again. Like a bunch
Speaker 1: of it got confiscated for some reason and it just disappeared.
Speaker 1: It's in somewhere house somewhere. Yeah, but regardless, it's you know,
Speaker 1: we can't get at it, so we can't use it.
Speaker 1: And and this is this is like most of these
Speaker 1: is that you know, it's all being suppressed and so
Speaker 1: therefore we can't use it, and we're not saving the money.
Speaker 1: In these large institutions, not necessarily government but maybe corporate
Speaker 1: are profiting from our lack of access to this technology.
Speaker 1: There was a book word, you know, recommending books. Uh,
Speaker 1: there was a book um imna say five years ago
Speaker 1: that came out. It was called The Family. Check it Out.
Speaker 1: That's all I'll say about it. Crack it out. In
Speaker 1: reference to this sort of stuff. Okay, but I want
Speaker 1: to say this is, uh, this is a common theme
Speaker 1: in human history, which is which is that utopia is
Speaker 1: just around the corner except for these dark forces. And
Speaker 1: the dark forces are corporations or they're the Jews, government, government. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and this and this, this, you know, going down this path,
Speaker 1: you know very often least to dark results. I mean,
Speaker 1: we'll see for example, the Holocaust, the you know, I mean, seriously, people,
Speaker 1: if if if there is a miraculous technology out there,
Speaker 1: then the people that are in possession of it, can
Speaker 1: you obviously use it to make a lot of money.
Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense to hide it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's very true. But Joe Aliens Aliens, Okay, never mind,
Speaker 1: Well let's let's let's move on to the others. And
Speaker 1: we've discussed a little bit of the other side of
Speaker 1: the coin. But let's go to the other side of
Speaker 1: the coin, which is Gary found nothing. Okay, Well, according
Speaker 1: to some people also known as the government, he find
Speaker 1: nothing and he made it all up. Now there's there's
Speaker 1: a pretty good basis for why Gary might be looked
Speaker 1: at as having made all of this up. No, by
Speaker 1: his own admission at the time that he was doing
Speaker 1: all of this, he was spoken a lot of pot
Speaker 1: as we know that causes lots of hallucinations and brain
Speaker 1: damage and um did madness. Yeah he remember, he said,
Speaker 1: I wasn't quick enough to get a screenshot, or or
Speaker 1: I didn't think to save the file, just stare at
Speaker 1: the screen like, oh wow, man, pixels. It's possible that
Speaker 1: he was just high as a kite and that's why
Speaker 1: he can't remember these things. Or maybe you know, he
Speaker 1: had some great hash and he was just dreaming it
Speaker 1: all up. It might have been that he was trying
Speaker 1: to hack a defense department thing and he got into
Speaker 1: some alien UFO website. Maybe he wasn't even in the
Speaker 1: government the government. He might have been on just some
Speaker 1: random website. Although let's be fair, the reason that the
Speaker 1: UK arrested him was because somebody had confirmed hacked into
Speaker 1: the U. S. Government server and they traced it to
Speaker 1: him and his apartment. Right, so like we can say, ah,
Speaker 1: he was like seeing something he didn't think he was seeing,
Speaker 1: but he was. It's I mean, it's essentially confirmed on
Speaker 1: the books that he was successful in hacking into the U. S.
Speaker 1: Government's database and here's the worst part. We haven't really
Speaker 1: talked about it how he managed to do some of it,
Speaker 1: but I think Joe mentioned some of this. He wrote
Speaker 1: a script, I think it was a Pearl script, and
Speaker 1: he wrote a Pearl script that scanned computers that we're
Speaker 1: using the default Windows log in names, so not even
Speaker 1: a customized name, therefore using the administrator and the default
Speaker 1: password thing. And that's how he was getting into their computers.
Speaker 1: And he said when he was in there, because they
Speaker 1: say here they described McKinnon's hacking as intention and calculated
Speaker 1: to influence and effect the U. S Government by intimidation
Speaker 1: and coercion. But he says that when he was in there,
Speaker 1: he saw other hackers moving around in the system. Who
Speaker 1: are you kidding me? Of course he did. And so
Speaker 1: he claims that he didn't bring down some of these
Speaker 1: things or delete some of these files that they say,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't understand how to move into
Speaker 1: network to be able to see that kind of information.
Speaker 1: But he says he saw other hackers in there, and
Speaker 1: that he didn't delete some of those fives. He said,
Speaker 1: I deleted some files, but I deletes all the files
Speaker 1: you claim I deleted and it could be that he
Speaker 1: went into a directory and then came out of the
Speaker 1: director he left his footprints because he wasn't very good
Speaker 1: at covering his tracks. Somebody else comes in, deletes a
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff, covers their tracks to the only person
Speaker 1: they have to follow is him. Yeah, it's true. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's the old walking in the snow backwards and
Speaker 1: somebody else's footprints all the time, all the time. But no,
Speaker 1: that's true. It sounds like they're pretty much wide up,
Speaker 1: and you bet there'll be other people in there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's just it's hard, you guys, It really is.
Speaker 1: And they they're saying that in this year period, like
Speaker 1: he he hacked into where's the number, um, you know,
Speaker 1: all these systems plus the sixteen NASA computer, sixty thousand
Speaker 1: machines right, yeah, yeah, Well he was able to stand
Speaker 1: sixty five thousand machines with that Pearl script to find
Speaker 1: the ones that he could access because they had a
Speaker 1: basic log in. That's so clever. That's just so weird
Speaker 1: to me. The whole like dynamic of like being sophisticated
Speaker 1: enough to write a pearl script like does this right?
Speaker 1: But yeah, but being so dumb as to not like
Speaker 1: like just put a little like it's yeah, and and
Speaker 1: again I'm not I'm not casting aspersions on him, but
Speaker 1: I think the part of his part of his issue
Speaker 1: is that he was not in a state of mind,
Speaker 1: was not very stable at the time or clear to think, well,
Speaker 1: if I get in there, will somebody find out? Well,
Speaker 1: But like tour networks have existed basically since the Internet existed,
Speaker 1: Like to not use something like that is like that
Speaker 1: would have been in the hackers handbook, Like that would
Speaker 1: have been chapter one in the Hackers Handbook. So I
Speaker 1: don't I just don't totally understand the lack of use
Speaker 1: of you know, any kind of protection or anything, or
Speaker 1: I guess on the opposite yeah, or on the opposite
Speaker 1: end of that, like maybe you know, I guess it's
Speaker 1: conceivable that the US government was capable of tracking something
Speaker 1: through that surprise everybody who listens here as a hacker.
Speaker 1: Maybe they are. Maybe the n s A is so
Speaker 1: good that they can actually see through your tour network. Um,
Speaker 1: but to not then, but then they should be smart
Speaker 1: enough to change their stupid passwords or like even just
Speaker 1: put an actual password on there. I just here's dynamic.
Speaker 1: Here's the other The other point to this is that
Speaker 1: the fact that he he got into their system is
Speaker 1: a re you thumb in the eye. Yeah, that's really
Speaker 1: they got egg on their face. And it's entirely possible
Speaker 1: that he got in there and he found Jack squat.
Speaker 1: He was just going through personnel records that were used
Speaker 1: worth nothing, or transport logs that meant nothing. But by god,
Speaker 1: somebody got in and we got to make an example
Speaker 1: of him about let's be fair, somebody got in that
Speaker 1: we can track. Yeah, there's that right, Well that's we've
Speaker 1: got our patsy. Yeah. But as to but as to
Speaker 1: um so, he found nothing, but he claimed that he
Speaker 1: found something. So the question is why did he? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think think of a couple of reasons why.
Speaker 1: The first number one, he wants attention, okay, yeah. Number two, well,
Speaker 1: number two, he's he's he's actually got some legal problems
Speaker 1: at this point in time, and he needs money for lawyers.
Speaker 1: And so so I got the UFO thing. You get
Speaker 1: a lot more people interested in your case, and uh
Speaker 1: so you actually actually create more possibilities that But from
Speaker 1: the start, from the very hem, the very start, he
Speaker 1: had the UFO angle. Okay, so he claimed to be
Speaker 1: looking at the evidence for UFOs and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: but he didn't actually make any statements about UFOs or
Speaker 1: anything to anybody that we know of until after he
Speaker 1: was he was arrested. Right, So, if he's a smart
Speaker 1: thinking guy, maybe he's not. I don't know. It sounds
Speaker 1: like he's somewhat bright, but obviously not bright enough to
Speaker 1: cover his tracks. But he might have looked at that
Speaker 1: as a kind of a helpful legal defense. Um claiming
Speaker 1: that you saw wacky things, you know, like you know,
Speaker 1: things like aircraft carrier size, spaceships, you know, orbiting the planet,
Speaker 1: you know, and he saw this stuff. He saw the
Speaker 1: picture of a cigar shaped object and a stuff like
Speaker 1: that might actually aid your legal defense somewhere down the line,
Speaker 1: because they'll know your your lawyers can point to the
Speaker 1: fact that you're delusional. Yeah, I don't think that's necessarily
Speaker 1: the track somebody would take. I don't think that would
Speaker 1: benefit you. Well, for me, I can see the benefit of,
Speaker 1: you know, throwing out all these things kind of like
Speaker 1: just casting a large net, right that, Like on the
Speaker 1: off chance that even one even one XL document in
Speaker 1: one computer somewhere had something that could maybe even be
Speaker 1: construed the way that he construed it, that that would
Speaker 1: actually freak a lot of government agencies out right, that
Speaker 1: you could say like, oh, yeah, I did see this
Speaker 1: picture that had this cigar. You're you're casting a wide
Speaker 1: net hoping that you're going to catch one thing that
Speaker 1: the government's trying to cover up, right, that might cause
Speaker 1: them to say, oh, you know, don't release that. You know,
Speaker 1: so I think that I can see it. Yeah, you're
Speaker 1: just kind of like, yeah, exactly, that you're hoping that
Speaker 1: they are actually suppressing something like that, and that if
Speaker 1: they are, then it will benefit you and if not.
Speaker 1: Obviously it didn't set off on the alarm bills, did it. Well?
Speaker 1: I mean they wanted to extra, they wanted wanted, like,
Speaker 1: you know, put him in jail for hacking, but they
Speaker 1: didn't seem too frightened about him de bulging any information
Speaker 1: that they got. Yeah, well, mostly they had his computer.
Speaker 1: He can't prove it either way, It doesn't matter. No.
Speaker 1: Evidently he had a bunch of people other people's computers
Speaker 1: that he've been working on. Those got sees. It took
Speaker 1: forever to get those back, but he never he never
Speaker 1: got his computers, but of course not, of course not.
Speaker 1: But by the time you get your computer back, it's
Speaker 1: kind of obsolete anyway. Yeah, this is very true, and
Speaker 1: you're not allowed to connect it to the internet anymore.
Speaker 1: So it's yes, well that's that's that's the story, and
Speaker 1: that's the theories around the whole thing with with Gary McKinnon,
Speaker 1: and I just want to you know, I know that
Speaker 1: we've all kind of gone into this, but is there
Speaker 1: any last bit, you know, your summation or your theory
Speaker 1: about what you think happened. I think he made it up.
Speaker 1: But now if if he discovered evidence that we have
Speaker 1: ten aircraft carrier side spaceships in orbit right now, number one,
Speaker 1: any anything like that, it's going to be impossible to
Speaker 1: keep secret, you know, I mean, just there's gonna be
Speaker 1: so there's so many people involved in building and launching
Speaker 1: and operating those things, and obviously the launches themselves are
Speaker 1: gonna be kind of visible all the way all around.
Speaker 1: But also we could have even if we have perfect conspiracy,
Speaker 1: perfect conspiracy in the US government, nobody was talking what
Speaker 1: about the Russians, of Chinese and lots of other countries
Speaker 1: that track orbiting objects? How can they not notice the
Speaker 1: ships in orbit worldwide. It's that big. All the world
Speaker 1: leaders would have to know, we'd all be working together again. Wow,
Speaker 1: kind of hard to believe that none of that's going
Speaker 1: to leak out, you know. I I a little bit
Speaker 1: alluded to this earlier, This whole like the huge problem
Speaker 1: I have with things like this, Like we we talk
Speaker 1: about aliens all the time, and I really like aliens,
Speaker 1: and I like UFOs and I like all that stuff.
Speaker 1: But for us to say, yeah, the United States itself
Speaker 1: is covering up all this stuff is just ludicrous to me.
Speaker 1: You know, I think that there's something to be said
Speaker 1: for alien technology whatever. I think it's more likely that
Speaker 1: we're trying to develop things on our own. I think
Speaker 1: it's more likely that we haven't captured any kind of
Speaker 1: extraterrestrial What roswell is, what area one is, who knows.
Speaker 1: But I think the UFOs in general can be explained away.
Speaker 1: There are other aspects of like alien Earth visitation stuff
Speaker 1: that I really like. But in terms of this, we
Speaker 1: don't have spaceships up there, guys, Like, we just don't.
Speaker 1: We don't have we don't. I wish we did, too,
Speaker 1: Like I really wish we did, but we don't, you know,
Speaker 1: we just we just don't. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: I you know. My my perspective of on this is
Speaker 1: I think that it's possible that Gary found something. I
Speaker 1: don't think that is as extreme as he found. And
Speaker 1: actually all of the theories that we've talked about, I
Speaker 1: think that there's credence in all of them, but I
Speaker 1: think that it is a minuscule percent, like one or
Speaker 1: two percent of truth in the stories. Like there's probably
Speaker 1: technologies like we've talked about that are under development that
Speaker 1: people don't know about, but they're not out there for
Speaker 1: a good reason. And he might have found a leetle something,
Speaker 1: or he might have just found nothing, and the U. S.
Speaker 1: Government is angry at Gary and is trying to just
Speaker 1: prove a point. I think that there probably is some
Speaker 1: truth in that there are technologies that are cleaner, but
Speaker 1: they're just so they're so there in there their infantile stage,
Speaker 1: that they're just not usable. I So I think that
Speaker 1: there's truth, and I believe all of it, but I
Speaker 1: don't think it's a grand as it's made out to be.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's things, Um, what I was doing
Speaker 1: the research. There's this process, and this is one of
Speaker 1: those things that people point at as as government suppression,
Speaker 1: is that if you put forward a patent application that
Speaker 1: could potentially have some influence for energy, and there's a
Speaker 1: possibility that you're going to get a response letter from
Speaker 1: the US government saying your patent has been has been
Speaker 1: not denied, but suppressed is the wrong word. And well,
Speaker 1: because we can't let it out there because there's possibilities
Speaker 1: that it could get into the wrong hands and be misused.
Speaker 1: And people say, well, go, when you have that kind
Speaker 1: of patent, you file it in Canada first because they're
Speaker 1: much more liberal, and then by the time the Feds
Speaker 1: get the US Department gets ahold of it, it's too late.
Speaker 1: It's out there. I can see that happening for uses
Speaker 1: for certain explosive technologies or death rays or something crazy,
Speaker 1: but I can't see that on anything that is verifiable
Speaker 1: and really really solidly true and can be proven. I
Speaker 1: think a lot of this is it's not fact, it's
Speaker 1: not fiction. It's somewhere in between. People get a hold
Speaker 1: of it, and as with many of our stories, they
Speaker 1: build I mean, I think it's hard. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of potential for technology out there, and if you, as
Speaker 1: a private citizen, can come up with one thing that
Speaker 1: I guess provides, for instance, free energy. Right, there are
Speaker 1: so many ramifications and ripples that we don't pay attention to,
Speaker 1: that we haven't historically paid attention to. That We've learned
Speaker 1: from our mistakes of not paying attention to those things
Speaker 1: that we, you know, as kind of a society say
Speaker 1: at this point, Hey, maybe we're going to take your
Speaker 1: patent into consideration as a huge, publicly funded agency. We
Speaker 1: will test it. We will make sure that there's nothing
Speaker 1: wrong with it. You know, whether or not it makes
Speaker 1: it back to you is completely different. But you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, we live in a world where like doctors
Speaker 1: used to prescribe cigarettes to pregnant women secure my owning thickness,
Speaker 1: and yeah, you know, and that was the thing because
Speaker 1: it wasn't it just wasn't tested, you know, And we've
Speaker 1: learned from those mistakes, and I think that oftentimes we
Speaker 1: were overly cautious with anything that could have negative ramifications
Speaker 1: on a large scale. And I you know, this whole
Speaker 1: free energy thing just reeks of that to me, do
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, So yeah, free free energy perpetual motion
Speaker 1: machines all that stuff. No, not quite, not quite by
Speaker 1: black holes black holes. Yeah, was gonna say, And the
Speaker 1: photograph that he saw, let's assume, that's assume for the
Speaker 1: sake of fun, that he did actually see a photograph. Well, NASA,
Speaker 1: you know, NASA's always involved in little projects and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, or they're trying to sell a project out
Speaker 1: of Congress, and and they do stuff like they do
Speaker 1: artists conceptions, some of which are extremely realistic. I mean,
Speaker 1: I see an artist conception paintings and photoshops coming out
Speaker 1: of NASA that looked really awesome. Space suits. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: that are like on Mars, the artists renderings. Right, there's
Speaker 1: like men in space suits on Mars. Yeah. And so
Speaker 1: it's not conceptual, it's it's not beyond the realm of reason.
Speaker 1: That he saw a photograph doesn't mean it was a
Speaker 1: real photograph of real thing. That maybe what filtered unfiltered meant, right,
Speaker 1: unfiltered unfiltered right. It could also potentially mean at that resolution,
Speaker 1: with that color gig assessment could have been a fly
Speaker 1: or like a high flying bird. It could have been
Speaker 1: that the stealth bomber was on the ground and we
Speaker 1: didn't want to disclose that we serve as stealth bombers
Speaker 1: at that location. There's so many simple answers. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that just because it's simple answer, it's right, but
Speaker 1: there's a lot of simple answers. I did jump to
Speaker 1: these grand conclusions, but well, I think that that we
Speaker 1: would probably be labored this one another. Yeah, yeah, we
Speaker 1: were gonna have a bunch of of the links to
Speaker 1: this story. They will be on the website website, as
Speaker 1: always is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. If you want
Speaker 1: to go ahead and listen to the show, of course,
Speaker 1: all of them are on the website, but you can
Speaker 1: also go ahead and listen to the show on iTunes.
Speaker 1: Right on iTunes, go ahead and subscribe if you like
Speaker 1: the show, take the time if you can to leave
Speaker 1: us a a rating and a comment. We always enjoy those.
Speaker 1: And if you forget to download, and you know, what's
Speaker 1: that day when the show is coming out, you can
Speaker 1: always find us on Stitcher and just stream us directly
Speaker 1: from any internet capable mobile device. Yeah yeah, Now, of
Speaker 1: course we have We've got the Facebook page and the
Speaker 1: face groups, so if you want to join and find us,
Speaker 1: we've always we're always trying to put stuff out there
Speaker 1: and keep things going. That's always fun. And last, but
Speaker 1: not least, if if you want to have a discussion
Speaker 1: with Devin about your perspective on Aliens, or you have
Speaker 1: any other questions you want to ask, you can always
Speaker 1: send us an email. Email address is Thinking Sideways podcast
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. And I believe that's that's all
Speaker 1: our contact information and I think, believe it or not,
Speaker 1: that's all that we've got on this particular show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we stretched as long as it could, but you can't
Speaker 1: go any further. Something's about the snap. Yeah. Well, ladies
Speaker 1: and gentlemen, thank you for listening, and thanks again for
Speaker 1: for this listeners suggestion. This was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: Sorry it took me so long to get to it,
Speaker 1: but it was definitely a fun one. So we will
Speaker 1: talk to you next week. Aliens, guys, you think so