Speaker 1: Something strange is going on. Who is killing Russian billionaires?
Speaker 2: Another Russian oligarch has been found dead. Reports suggests that
Speaker 2: he hanged himself, fell out of.
Speaker 1: A window, slashed his wrists, was poisoned, murdered his whole family.
Speaker 3: Last year, more than a dozen Russian oligarchs died in
Speaker 3: the space of nine months. Many of the deaths are
Speaker 3: suspicious with links to the Kremlin. This is sad Oligach,
Speaker 3: an investigation into these recently dead Russian billionaires. It's created
Speaker 3: by me jake Hanrahan and my colleague Sergei Slipchenkov. Sad
Speaker 3: Oligarch is a h eleven production for Kulsomdia and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3: One day after Russia's full scale invasion of Ukraine in
Speaker 3: February twenty twenty two, Alexander t Yulokov hanged himself in
Speaker 3: the gary of his villa in Russia's Leningrad of Blast,
Speaker 3: specifically the village of Leninskoya. Tulukov was sixty one years old.
Speaker 3: According to multiple sources from Russian media, a suicide note
Speaker 3: was found next to the body, Its contents, though.
Speaker 1: Have yet to be revealed in full.
Speaker 3: Tulukov worked for Gazprom, a multinational energy corporation owned in
Speaker 3: the majority by the Russian government. Tulukov was the deputy
Speaker 3: general director of Gazprom's Unified Settlement Center for Corporate Security,
Speaker 3: a serious role. Leninskoya, where he lived and died, has
Speaker 3: been nicknamed by locals as Gazprom's nest as so many
Speaker 3: Gazprom managers have houses there. Tulukov was wealthy, and his
Speaker 3: house in Leninskoya showed it. The Tulukov house was surrounded
Speaker 3: by beautiful conifer trees and set back in the woods,
Speaker 3: a nice place to live. The minimum cost of an
Speaker 3: average house in that area is upward of five hundred
Speaker 3: thousand dollars. Tulukov's corpse was found by a woman he
Speaker 3: lived with and her ex husband. It's unsure if the
Speaker 3: woman was his girlfriend or just rented a room at
Speaker 3: the house. Either way, the body was discovered hanged in
Speaker 3: a noose in the garage and the police were called.
Speaker 3: The police arrived and got to work. Then a short
Speaker 3: time later, something strange happened. As police tended to the scene,
Speaker 3: three black jeeps pulled up outside the house. Several men
Speaker 3: got out. They belonged to Gazprom's private security. They immediately
Speaker 3: pushed out the police. Investigators cordoned off the area and
Speaker 3: seized the evidence. Independent Russian newspaper Navaya Gazetta, an adversarial
Speaker 3: outlet that's known for being critical of the Kremlin, interviewed
Speaker 3: people at the scene. They spoke to an employee of
Speaker 3: the Investigative Committee for the Leningrad Region. This person, who
Speaker 3: wished to remain anonymous, said the following quote, Everything that
Speaker 3: concerns the village of Leninskoya is immediately reported to us. Personally,
Speaker 3: I saw a man in a noose with some piece
Speaker 3: of paper lying on the floor of the garage. Forensic
Speaker 3: specialists were already working when stronglooking guys arrived in three jeeps.
Speaker 3: They declared they were Gazprom's security service. They calledon off
Speaker 3: the territory and we and most of the policemen were
Speaker 3: simply sent away outside of the cordon of the house
Speaker 3: ends quote Who were these people? How is it that
Speaker 3: Gazprom security was able to outrank the police. To get
Speaker 3: an idea of how security worked at Gazprom, we looked
Speaker 3: at local job postings in Russia for security services in
Speaker 3: the Gazprom companies.
Speaker 2: Sergei explains, I couldn't find a specific company or like
Speaker 2: a specific I guess I don't know, like section of
Speaker 2: Gasprom that specifically has security, like when they're when you're like,
Speaker 2: here's a job offering for a security guard, uh, and
Speaker 2: it basically just says you're working for gas Prom, which
Speaker 2: just means like the main security head of gas Prom.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: There's no like separate entity or anything. It seems to
Speaker 2: be just like internal gas from security guards. And from
Speaker 2: my understanding that's basically who came kicked the police out.
Speaker 2: I don't know for sure, but going based off other
Speaker 2: uh kind of other situations and from what Anderson how
Speaker 2: Russia operates, my guess would be the cops kind of
Speaker 2: understand that once gas Prom is there, it's kind of
Speaker 2: above their pay grade. I think they know that, like
Speaker 2: if gas from security is there, you know, very connected
Speaker 2: to put into the Russian higher ups. I think they
Speaker 2: know kind of it's time to pack up and step
Speaker 2: out of the way. So anything related to curreny they
Speaker 2: always look for military service.
Speaker 3: Currently, a company called Radu is doing the recruiting for
Speaker 3: Gazprom security. That's who's hiring from the job of a
Speaker 3: surgery was reading. Radu is a Russian private military contractor
Speaker 3: and security firm. It's even formed its own mercenary units
Speaker 3: sent out to fight against Ukraine through REDU. Gazprom itself
Speaker 3: also has a private military contractor unit taking part in
Speaker 3: the Russian invasion of Ukraine right now. Recently, this unit
Speaker 3: released a video condemning another Russian private military contractor unit
Speaker 3: who they clash within an occupied area of Ukraine. So
Speaker 3: one Russian PMC is fighting with another Russian PMC whilst
Speaker 3: both are sent on the same mission by private Russian
Speaker 3: government linked firms to invade a foreign country. It's extremely messy,
Speaker 3: but as you can see, Gazprom is not just an
Speaker 3: energy company. Essentially, gaz Prom holds a lot more power
Speaker 3: across Russia. Much more is at stake for its executives.
Speaker 3: To understand Gazprom's power and how Alexander T. Yolokov might
Speaker 3: have gotten on the wrong side of that, we need
Speaker 3: to look at where Gazprom came from. Gazprom's origins date
Speaker 3: back to the nineteen forties, when Russia was ruled by
Speaker 3: Stalin's Soviet Union the USSR. In nineteen forty three, in
Speaker 3: the midst of World War two, the USSR formed its
Speaker 3: first domestic gas industry, was later centralized as the Ministry
Speaker 3: of Gas, which discovered large natural gas reserves in the
Speaker 3: nineteen seventies and eighties. This helped the USSR become a
Speaker 3: major player in the gas industry. By nineteen eighty three,
Speaker 3: the USSR was the world's leading producer of natural gas.
Speaker 3: They exported the gas to many countries across Western Europe,
Speaker 3: something the USSI became dependent on to keep the country going,
Speaker 3: ironic considering that now its Western European countries that are
Speaker 3: the most dependent on Russia's gas exports. By nineteen eighty nine,
Speaker 3: the Ministry of Gas was renamed as the State Gas
Speaker 3: Concern Gazprom. The name Gazprom is a mix of two
Speaker 3: words in Russian that simply means gas industry. The renamed
Speaker 3: department was Gazprom in its infancy, as it became the
Speaker 3: ussa's first state run corporation. When the USSR collapsed in
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety one, most of Gazprom was transferred to state
Speaker 3: owned companies and the assets remained in Russia. Everyone involved
Speaker 3: formed a total gas sector monopoly. Gasprom grew rapidly, extending
Speaker 3: its branches into many other industries, such as banking, media, security,
Speaker 3: and oil. This monopolized, major state owned energy company exporting
Speaker 3: internationally gave the Russian government big leverage. By two thousand
Speaker 3: and seven, the number of Gazprom's personnel was more than
Speaker 3: four hundred thousand people. It became the world's largest supplier
Speaker 3: of natural gas, with an estimated annual net profit of
Speaker 3: over nine billion dollars. By twenty twenty, Germany, Italy and
Speaker 3: the Netherlands were Gazprom's biggest customers outside of regions within
Speaker 3: the former Soviet Union.
Speaker 1: By twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: Two, Gazprom was sporadically shutting off gas to Western Europe
Speaker 3: as a threat to countries helping Ukraine resist Putin's invasion.
Speaker 3: Putin allegedly owns four point five percent of Gazprom himself,
Speaker 3: adding to his hidden fortune which is speculated to be
Speaker 3: around round two hundred billion dollars. In twenty twenty twelve,
Speaker 3: the independent Russian news outlet, The Moscow Times compared Gazprom
Speaker 3: to an organized crime syndicate. They said, quote, Gazprom in
Speaker 3: many ways is more important in advancing the Kremlin's foreign
Speaker 3: policy than the Defense Ministry or the Foreign Ministry. In short,
Speaker 3: the way Gazprom is run is an accurate model for
Speaker 3: how Putin rules Russia. Since two thousand and one, Gazprom's
Speaker 3: management has been dominated.
Speaker 1: By three groups.
Speaker 3: The CEO's young Saint Petersburg economists, a group of Saint
Speaker 3: Petersburg KGB officers both closely linked to Putin, and the
Speaker 3: third group of old Gazprom officials. Putin himself has arbitrated
Speaker 3: between these three factions, preventing any one of them from
Speaker 3: gaining the upper hand, using a classic divide and rule strategy.
Speaker 3: Putin thus re obtains the ultimate responsibility for the company
Speaker 3: end quote. The KGB that's mentioned in that quote was,
Speaker 3: of course, the Soviet Union's notoriously brutal security and intelligence agency.
Speaker 3: The spiritual successor to that is the FSB, the current
Speaker 3: Russian security and intelligence agency. Many interchangeably refer to the
Speaker 3: current day FSB as the KGB. Clearly, it's no secret
Speaker 3: that Gazprom has a sizeable FSB Putin loyalist presence within
Speaker 3: the inner circles, specifically in Saint Petersburg. But was Alexander
Speaker 3: to Yolokov part of that It's possible turns out he
Speaker 3: actually used to work for the FSB through the early nineties.
Speaker 3: Then in nineteen ninety nine he began working for Gazprom
Speaker 3: in where Saint Petersburg. A decade after that, in two
Speaker 3: thousand and nine, he became Gazprom's deputy general director and
Speaker 3: then deputy for Corporate Protection and personnel Management. I think
Speaker 3: it's safe to say it's not unlikely that to your
Speaker 3: Lokov at least had some proximity to this FSB circle
Speaker 3: within Gazprom. It's worth noting that largely the FSB is
Speaker 3: alleged to carry out any dirty work for the Kremlin,
Speaker 3: including extra judicial violence. But what has all this got
Speaker 3: to do with to your Lokov hanging himself in his garage.
Speaker 1: There's more to this story.
Speaker 3: Reports in the media from an unnamed witness at the
Speaker 3: scene say that to your Locov returned home bruised and
Speaker 3: beaten the day before he was found dead. He looked
Speaker 3: as if someone had beaten him up. As we mentioned earlier,
Speaker 3: to yu Lookov was the deputy general director of Gazprom's
Speaker 3: Unified Settlement Center for Corporate security. Unified Settlement Center acts
Speaker 3: as the Gazprom Treasury. According to journalist Matthew Cooper. There
Speaker 3: were rumors in Russia that there were problems there. It's
Speaker 3: alleged that a hole was found in a twenty twenty
Speaker 3: one internal corporate audit, Cooper writes, quote, according to people
Speaker 3: in the know, most likely to Ulokov's structure failed to
Speaker 3: avoid sanctions losses which divided the life of a top
Speaker 3: manager into before and after end quote. Still these are
Speaker 3: just rumors. What isn't rumor, though, is the removal of
Speaker 3: Alexander to Yulokov's photos from Gazprom files. When reporters from
Speaker 3: Neveya Gazetta requested images of ta your Lokov from Gazprom
Speaker 3: so that they could use it in their article, they'd
Speaker 3: all been removed. Russian journalist Maxim Leonov wrote about this, saying, quote,
Speaker 3: the central office of Gazprom said that they did not
Speaker 3: have any information about an investigation into the death of
Speaker 3: Alexander to your Lookov. At the same time, we were
Speaker 3: not even able to obtain photographs of the deceased. One
Speaker 3: of the employees of the press service of Gazprom admitted
Speaker 3: that the photos of to your Lokov were removed from
Speaker 3: their sites in order to prevent the spread of rumors
Speaker 3: and to spare the nerves of the relatives and friends
Speaker 3: of the victims end quote.
Speaker 1: This is odd.
Speaker 3: Why remove the photos and so quickly. Gazprom's reasoning is
Speaker 3: that it could cause pain for the family if the
Speaker 3: photos are left in the Gazprom files. I'd argue that
Speaker 3: it's a lot more pain for the family if a
Speaker 3: company erases their loved ones from the records immediately after
Speaker 3: their suicide. This is what Gazprom did to Alexander to
Speaker 3: your Lookov, after he'd worked there in a very prestigious
Speaker 3: position for more than twenty years. They wiped him off
Speaker 3: the face of the planet as far as Gazprom is concerned.
Speaker 3: And not to mention the fact that Gazprom's security took
Speaker 3: over the scene and pushed out the police, and yet
Speaker 3: they said that they were unaware of any investigation into
Speaker 3: Alexander to your Lokov's suicide. All of this, to me
Speaker 3: seems even more unusual when you consider that Alexander to
Speaker 3: your Lookov was not the first Gazprom suicide at the
Speaker 3: so called Gazprom nest last year. On January twenty ninth,
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two, Gazprom executive Leonid Shilman was found dead
Speaker 3: at his home with both wrists slashed. A suicide note
Speaker 3: was found next to his body. This occurred just twenty
Speaker 3: seven days before Alexander to Yulokov was found dead in
Speaker 3: the same area just down the road, also with a
Speaker 3: suicide note next to his body. Reports are conflicting on
Speaker 3: who found him. Some say it was his ex wife
Speaker 3: and children, some say his girlfriend, and some say the
Speaker 3: police were first to turn up. Leonid Shilman was the
Speaker 3: head of transport services at the investment subsidiary of Gazprom. Shilman,
Speaker 3: who was sixty years old when he died, lived in
Speaker 3: an affluent gated community in the same area as to
Speaker 3: your Lookov. Both were residents at Gazprom's nest. Shilman was
Speaker 3: found dead in his bathroom with his wrist ouoken. According
Speaker 3: to reports, utility knife was found by his side, as
Speaker 3: well as the suicide notes. We looked at the police
Speaker 3: photos from the scene. The bathroom has an all marble finish,
Speaker 3: with the bath to the right.
Speaker 1: Of the room.
Speaker 3: The bathtub is filled around half way with blood and water.
Speaker 3: Shulman's corpse is lying face down on the floor beside
Speaker 3: the bath. Blood is smeared on the marble near his feet.
Speaker 3: Shulman has a metal Ilizarov apparatus around the lower half
Speaker 3: of the right leg. This is an external fixator which
Speaker 3: stabilizes and holds broken bones into their correct position to
Speaker 3: help them heal. Shulman had a complicated bone fracture after
Speaker 3: a recent accident. The fixator on his leg appears to
Speaker 3: be broken, with loose parts on the floor next to
Speaker 3: Shulman's feet. Crutches are laid out on the floor across
Speaker 3: the room, next to where Shulman's head is positioned. Shulman's
Speaker 3: body appears to be laid out on top of towels
Speaker 3: or a blanket. What's not visible in the photo is
Speaker 3: the suicide note or the utility knife the Russian authorities
Speaker 3: say Shulman killed himself with. We do, though, have other
Speaker 3: police photos of the suicide note removed from the scene.
Speaker 3: It was written in a notebook. Whether the photos of
Speaker 3: the bathroom scene were taken after the note was removed,
Speaker 3: or if it was out of shot, or if it
Speaker 3: wasn't even there, we don't know. The following is from
Speaker 3: Shulman's suicide notes, which was published in Russian media. Quote,
Speaker 3: I'm tired of having to deal with constant medical treatment.
Speaker 3: I don't want to become an invalid or a burden.
Speaker 3: Remember me as happy and cheerful. Yours, Lenya, Dad, thank
Speaker 3: you Sunshine for everything.
Speaker 1: PS.
Speaker 3: I love you all ends quote. Lenya is short for Leonide.
Speaker 3: There's more to the suicide note, but the rest has
Speaker 3: been blurred out, presumably by the Russian authorities before it
Speaker 3: was released publicly. According to this suicide note and Russian
Speaker 3: state media reports, Shilman killed himself due to the complications
Speaker 3: with his fractured right leg. Whilst we don't know if
Speaker 3: there were further unknown medical problems with it, the fractured
Speaker 3: leg alone seems an unusual reason to kill yourself as
Speaker 3: a wealthy sixty year old. The elizard of apparatus he
Speaker 3: had installed is painful, sure, but this can be somewhat
Speaker 3: alleviated with medication. Shulman had money, he had access to
Speaker 3: premium health care. He would have, of course, had access
Speaker 3: to strong painkillers. Nevertheless, apparently he killed himself in the
Speaker 3: bath by slitting both his wrists with a utility knife
Speaker 3: also known as a Stanley knife or a box cutter.
Speaker 3: Shulman then, perhaps in a bid to try and save himself,
Speaker 3: climbed out of the bath before falling flat and dying
Speaker 3: on the tiles. That's what the official story and the
Speaker 3: police crime scene photos suggest. Anyway, as is with many
Speaker 3: of these oligarch deaths, we've discovered that there's more to it.
Speaker 3: Multiple Russian state backed media sources mentioned that there was
Speaker 3: an internal investigation into the finances of vehicles in the
Speaker 3: department that Shulman headed at Gazprom.
Speaker 2: It seems like there was an investigation to why the
Speaker 2: company was bleeding money. There was like a reshuffling in
Speaker 2: I think twenty twenty or so, and it was kind
Speaker 2: of promised, as you know, we will change the structure,
Speaker 2: will change the higher ups, and the company is going
Speaker 2: to get more profits. But instead it kept on dropping.
Speaker 2: Perhaps one of those reasons that was identified was corruption. Right,
Speaker 2: people are stealing money off, you know, the typical order
Speaker 2: or some kind of repair order parts and half of
Speaker 2: those parts aren't actually purchased, half of the money is pocketed.
Speaker 2: It seems like Shuliman he was somewhere higher up in
Speaker 2: the transport unit. He would have been the one responsible
Speaker 2: for ordering any kind of repairs, approving deliveries, orders.
Speaker 3: Surgery looked into an open source database online documenting these
Speaker 3: orders in Shulman's department.
Speaker 2: This one specifically is called jos Zakupac. Like gas prompts
Speaker 2: purchasing portal, I guess, they show which purchases are made,
Speaker 2: it shows when it was ordered, if it was repeated,
Speaker 2: and then it shows the total price.
Speaker 3: This is where evidence of corruption in Schulman's department is
Speaker 3: set out in black and white.
Speaker 2: On the order forms, two identical purchases were made for
Speaker 2: repairs two months from each other for one point two
Speaker 2: million rouble. So that's about fifteen thousand or sixteen thousand
Speaker 2: US dollars kind of a lot for only two months
Speaker 2: in between. Like, how many cars are you fixing? How
Speaker 2: many cars are actually like needing this maintenance? Right, Schulman
Speaker 2: would probably be the one that would like authorize this.
Speaker 2: Perhaps he can make the order himself. This kind of
Speaker 2: activity is pretty normal. You know, order something, skim half
Speaker 2: of it, and just report that the entire order was
Speaker 2: made and came but it doesn't exist.
Speaker 3: So he potentially took about fifteen grand back com out
Speaker 3: of that from doing absolutely nothing but faking some documents.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, just file a couple of extra reports,
Speaker 2: file a couple electus I don't know, maintenance ledgers, you know,
Speaker 2: say you fixed x many cars, say you get it
Speaker 2: a couple more tires or whatever, you know, make it
Speaker 2: look clean. It never actually happened, but I mean, who's
Speaker 2: gonna really prove at that point? Is probably what they thought.
Speaker 2: I don't think they expected to have that investigation started.
Speaker 2: From what I understand, the investigation was coming to a close.
Speaker 2: They never it was in like a private internal investigation,
Speaker 2: so not much details came out about it, but it
Speaker 2: seems like around the time they died, the investigation was
Speaker 2: coming to a close. Schulmann specifically was kind of aware
Speaker 2: that he would be identified as the guy stealing money,
Speaker 2: and maybe he offed himself. It's very possible that he
Speaker 2: might have been made an example, you know, if you
Speaker 2: steal from us is what happens. Mostly speculation, but the
Speaker 2: factor remains that it's pretty weird circumstances, same village. I
Speaker 2: don't know if they actually knew each other, but clearly
Speaker 2: they worked in the same structure, like same company structure,
Speaker 2: you know they I'm sure they knew of each other,
Speaker 2: especially when they lives on nearby.
Speaker 3: A pro Kremlin media outlet called the Moscow Post had
Speaker 3: a reporter on the ground in the region where Shulman died.
Speaker 3: They also speculate that he was stealing money from Gazprom
Speaker 3: through the fake orders. They back this up with some
Speaker 3: pretty convincing evidence, which if it's pro Kremlin media as
Speaker 3: this is, it can be sort of considered almost as
Speaker 3: a reworked press release from the state. This evidence shows
Speaker 3: purchase orders from Shulman's department for parts for cars that
Speaker 3: were purposely over christ Who did the extra money go to,
Speaker 3: as Surgery just explained, probably Shulman. The Moscow Post also
Speaker 3: shows that vehicles in Shulman's department were on paper excessively serviced.
Speaker 3: Services were also overpriced. Seeing as Shulman was in charge
Speaker 3: of all of this, he was quite likely the one
Speaker 3: that skimming off the top. This I think leads to
Speaker 3: three possible realities. One Shulman actually did kill himself due
Speaker 3: to the pain in his leg. Two, Shulman killed himself
Speaker 3: because he knew he might be going to prison after
Speaker 3: stealing from Gazprom. And three, Shulman was murdered due to
Speaker 3: his theft from Gazprom. Me and Surgery were speaking about
Speaker 3: this specifically with regards to Putin's close proximity to Gazprom
Speaker 3: and how he feels people engaged in corruption stealing right
Speaker 3: out of his pocket.
Speaker 2: Remember Putin talking about kind of selling Russia, and that's
Speaker 2: what he described Ukraine as, right in twenty fourteen. He
Speaker 2: says that like the politicians that did the whole revolution, well,
Speaker 2: according to him, it was like all orchestrated, right, he's saying,
Speaker 2: he calls that like selling out to the West, along
Speaker 2: the lines of if you're stealing from Russia, you're a trader,
Speaker 2: you're you're as bad as like those in the West,
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1: So I think that would be a view he holds.
Speaker 2: You know, although I don't think he sees it as
Speaker 2: stealing from Russia. I think he sees as stealing it
Speaker 2: from himself or kind of from his group.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's like if you're going against the grain in his group,
Speaker 2: you're wrong. Like, he doesn't care if he's stealing from
Speaker 2: the Russian people, if he's taking money from you know,
Speaker 2: Gasprom whatever other state company, like. I don't think that
Speaker 2: phases him at all. It's when you do something that's
Speaker 2: kind of like I guess you think you did. You
Speaker 2: had one over Putin himself, and I think that extends
Speaker 2: just kind of culture, like it's embarrassing to him. And
Speaker 2: if you embarrass him, that's like that's more than enough.
Speaker 3: This is a very relevant theory. Remember, Putin allegedly owns
Speaker 3: four point five percent of Gazprom himself. Gazprom is massive.
Speaker 3: It holds around fifteen percent of all global gas reserves,
Speaker 3: has branched off into banking, media, and oil, and now
Speaker 3: even has its own paramilitary forces on the ground invading Ukraine.
Speaker 3: Earlier this year, Putin lauded Gazprom in a video address
Speaker 3: to the CEO. He said, quote, the whole of Russia
Speaker 3: is proud of Gazprom. Over the previous thirty years, global
Speaker 3: gas consumption has almost doubled, and in the next twenty years,
Speaker 3: according to expert estimates, it will add at least another
Speaker 3: twenty percent. Despite unfair competition direct attempts from the outside
Speaker 3: to hinder and restrain its development, Gazprom is moving forward,
Speaker 3: launching new projects end quote. It's clear Gazprom holds a
Speaker 3: special place in Putin's heart. If someone steals from Gazprom,
Speaker 3: they're quite literally stealing from part of his empire. Anyone
Speaker 3: working relatively high up at Gazprom will know this. Leonid
Speaker 3: Schumann would have known this. He took a risk and
Speaker 3: was likely found out.
Speaker 2: It's very possible that Leonid Schulmann just understood what it
Speaker 2: meant if he was found out and he was kind
Speaker 2: of like, you know what, fuck it, I'll do it myself.
Speaker 2: Very possible. You know, he got into this knowing what
Speaker 2: he's doing, who he's dealing with, and you know, there's
Speaker 2: so many other cases of falling out of windows even
Speaker 2: before all this. I think he knew what was coming. Probably,
Speaker 2: I think it's like an open secret that the way
Speaker 2: Russia's run. I think a lot of people in Russia
Speaker 2: understand that as well. But I think they still don't
Speaker 2: want to air their dirty laundry completely.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I'm look at tu lack of February twenty fifth, right,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, literally the day I think it was
Speaker 2: the morning of the invasion. It's pretty convenient timing. Maybe
Speaker 2: Tu Lacos just kind of off himself, knowing the pressure
Speaker 2: and what was coming. But February twenty fifth, he's found
Speaker 2: beat up or at least very bruised. The previous day,
Speaker 2: you know, and then all of a sudden he takes
Speaker 2: his life. You know, maybe maybe he just kind of
Speaker 2: knew it was coming and decided to do it, or
Speaker 2: they used the very big, you know, huge news that
Speaker 2: was taking all over all the news media for the
Speaker 2: next month or so, the Ukraine War. It's a great
Speaker 2: thing to kind of squeeze in the death there. Nobody
Speaker 2: would probably even notice notice.
Speaker 3: Said Oligach is a H eleven production for Couzone Media
Speaker 3: and IHA Radio. Hosted, produced, researched and edited by me
Speaker 3: Jake Hanrahan and Sergey Slipchenko. Co produced by Sophie Lichtman.
Speaker 3: Music by Sam Black, artwork by Adam Doyle, soundmix by
Speaker 3: Splicing Block. Go to Jacanrahan dot com for more information.